MO'N on Goals on Sunday

[manic-road]

I would sooner stay in the Championship.

I wouldn't Aston Villa for me come first over any individual associated with the club.

[ktvillan]

He defends the fact that the most he spent on any single player was 12m and the profits made on the likes of Young and Milner.  Fine, they were two of his all too few successful ventures into the transfer market.   But he conveniently omits to mention the tens of millions wasted on the likes of Shorey, Knight, Reo-Coker, Beye, Davies, Sidwell etc, etc, not just transfer fees but salaries way above what they were worth and contracts long enough to continue to bleed the club for years.  The fact is that despite 3 top 6 finishes O'Neill's approach was completely unsustainable.  He knew that full well and legged it before the wheels came off.  I blame Lerner for allowing that to happen but O'Neill should not get away with it because he got three 6th places by wasting 10 years worth of budget.  Many a manager could have achieved as much without being a contemptible arsehole into the bargain and leaving the cupboard almost bare.

[CT Villan]

It's hard to find a winner out of Lerner vs MON, but I'm damn sure I know who the losers have been ever since...we deserve better.

[steffo]

I think we all forget that Randy pumped a lot of money into AVFC. After years of trying to breach the top four along came the Arabs and Man City.

Top four became a Top Five (Man U, L/Pool, Chelsea.Arsenal, Man City). With the odd pretender.

His & our dream went when Man City were bought out.

[LeeB]

I'm not minded to excuse the c**t, as previous posters have pointed out his departure renders any sympathy null.

But there are, I think some mitigating factors. The mandate was for Champions League football, we got close, and I think the key is we got there quickly.
The squad he took over was poor, and needed a complete overhaul. Realistically, we needed to be spending more than probably any other team to make up that kind of ground.
With hindsight, given that support from the chairman was going have its limits, it would have been wise to plan that investment over a longer more sustainable period, but it is hard to blame a manager for asking for players and getting them, it is his job.

[The Edge]

Which was Lerner's first big mistake in my opinion and the foundations of the Kremlin walls at VP which are only now starting to be demolished brick by brick by plain speaking and open planning for the future. In my opinion it was a black day in Villa history when we accepted the concept of Martin O'Neill being a victim.

I must of dreamt about the 3 top 6 finishes. The European football. The carling cup final where the referee awarded the cup to man United.  The f.a cup semi final the 6-0 away to Derby & the 5-1 victory over the Scum.

And the five years subsequently paying the price.

Sorry but when a manager leaves a club regardless of the circumstances it's ridiculous to blame him for the shit we are in 5 years later.

The current malaise isn't all his fault, but he sowed the seeds of our demise.  Or do you think that Leeds fans think the Champions League semi final was worth the price they've had to pay since?

And I bet they still blame Peter Ridsdale.

They're not fickle they just don't like him....

He was our best manager for 20 years. And grudging respect to Deadly he done the deal wirh Oneill.Lerner has proved his utter incompetence ever since. O'Neill wasn't perfect by a long shot but he had something about him. His motivation skilks were top drawer..A better chairman / owner would of controlled the situation better and built on it. The buck stops right at the top in my opinion.

[pauliewalnuts]

Which was Lerner's first big mistake in my opinion and the foundations of the Kremlin walls at VP which are only now starting to be demolished brick by brick by plain speaking and open planning for the future. In my opinion it was a black day in Villa history when we accepted the concept of Martin O'Neill being a victim.

I must of dreamt about the 3 top 6 finishes. The European football. The carling cup final where the referee awarded the cup to man United.  The f.a cup semi final the 6-0 away to Derby & the 5-1 victory over the Scum.

And the five years subsequently paying the price.

Sorry but when a manager leaves a club regardless of the circumstances it's ridiculous to blame him for the shit we are in 5 years later.

The current malaise isn't all his fault, but he sowed the seeds of our demise.  Or do you think that Leeds fans think the Champions League semi final was worth the price they've had to pay since?

And I bet they still blame Peter Ridsdale.

They're not fickle they just don't like him....

He was our best manager for 20 years. And grudging respect to Deadly he done the deal wirh Oneill.Lerner has proved his utter incompetence ever since. O'Neill wasn't perfect by a long shot but he had something about him. His motivation skilks were top drawer..A better chairman / owner would of controlled the situation better and built on it. The buck stops right at the top in my opinion.

Was he fuck.

[Chris Smith]

I'm not minded to excuse the c**t, as previous posters have pointed out his departure renders any sympathy null.

But there are, I think some mitigating factors. The mandate was for Champions League football, we got close, and I think the key is we got there quickly.
The squad he took over was poor, and needed a complete overhaul. Realistically, we needed to be spending more than probably any other team to make up that kind of ground.
With hindsight, given that support from the chairman was going have its limits, it would have been wise to plan that investment over a longer more sustainable period, but it is hard to blame a manager for asking for players and getting them, it is his job.

That's the crux; we gambled on the CL and that qualifying would cover the spending to get there. We didn't and Lerner went into reverse gear and MON had a hissy fit. Neither come out of the way it ended with much credit.

[LeeB]

Which was Lerner's first big mistake in my opinion and the foundations of the Kremlin walls at VP which are only now starting to be demolished brick by brick by plain speaking and open planning for the future. In my opinion it was a black day in Villa history when we accepted the concept of Martin O'Neill being a victim.

I must of dreamt about the 3 top 6 finishes. The European football. The carling cup final where the referee awarded the cup to man United.  The f.a cup semi final the 6-0 away to Derby & the 5-1 victory over the Scum.

And the five years subsequently paying the price.

Sorry but when a manager leaves a club regardless of the circumstances it's ridiculous to blame him for the shit we are in 5 years later.

The current malaise isn't all his fault, but he sowed the seeds of our demise.  Or do you think that Leeds fans think the Champions League semi final was worth the price they've had to pay since?

And I bet they still blame Peter Ridsdale.

They're not fickle they just don't like him....

He was our best manager for 20 years. And grudging respect to Deadly he done the deal wirh Oneill.Lerner has proved his utter incompetence ever since. O'Neill wasn't perfect by a long shot but he had something about him. His motivation skilks were top drawer..A better chairman / owner would of controlled the situation better and built on it. The buck stops right at the top in my opinion.

Was he fuck.

Yes, that's absolute bollocks and verging on blasphemy.

[ktvillan]

But Lee, if Champions League Football was the mandate, I'm struggling to see how Marlon Harewood and Zat Knight, amongst many others, were the kind of player to take us there.  Good enough to come second in the "sub-league" outside the big four, which was a sea of mediocrity, but in my view there was never serious chance of them making the CL.  And even if we had scraped 4th, I couldn't have seen us even getting through the qualifier at time when we were being comfortably beaten by the likes of Rapid Vienna.   

[PeterWithesShin]

You'd have to be on crack to think that he was a better manager for us than Brian Little.

[Lizz]

Its worth bearing in mind though that even though he resigned and so was owed nothing he did win compensation from the tribunal as he argued Villa were in breach of contract, so there is something there to his side.

No.

We've had this one 100 times at least. He didn't "win" anything "from the tribunal", the two parties settled. Not the same thing.

Mind if we go over it 101 times then? Because I dont understand. Why settle? He resigned, owed nothing. Why would Lerner give him money unless there was something in the contract that was breached.

Honestly, I can't face it.

Sometimes organisations will agree a deal to make a case go away. It happens all the time, it is cheaper, less distracting and quicker to meet someone half way.

The reason you haven't heard him say he "won" his case is the same reason you haven't heard the club say it either, because it's a compromise agreement.

It doesn't make any difference that the club paid him, it's no admission of being in the wrong, it's just an admission that they've come to an agreement - the details of which we don't know and never will.

Even if the club adamantly think they've done nothing wrong and not breached the contract, it still costs a huge amount of money (and time) to fight it in court, it can be cheaper just to find a figure they're happy with and fuck them off and get on with life.

It's one area of life where football is similar to other jobs. Settlement Agreements are quite common. It doesn't matter how good a case either side thinks they have, there's always a risk an Employment Tribunal may see things differently. My employers don't advertise it, but basically there's a certain sum they'll pay to be rid of some of the more challenging employees. Too many people see tribunals as winning/losing. Settlement Agreements are a pragmatic solution. Better to pay say £5K and have a quick resolution than to spend a small fortune on legal fees and potential pay outs. Not to mention the stress involved.

[dave.woodhall]

He was our best manager for 20 years. And grudging respect to Deadly he done the deal wirh Oneill.Lerner has proved his utter incompetence ever since. O'Neill wasn't perfect by a long shot but he had something about him. His motivation skilks were top drawer..A better chairman / owner would of controlled the situation better and built on it. The buck stops right at the top in my opinion.

He won nothing, he wouldn't have come anywhere near the club if Doug hadn't been on the way out and the minute he knew he no longer had unlimited power and influence - in other words, he was going to have the same working conditions as every other manager - he was off, causing maximum damage as he left. He had something about him all right.

[The Edge]

Which was Lerner's first big mistake in my opinion and the foundations of the Kremlin walls at VP which are only now starting to be demolished brick by brick by plain speaking and open planning for the future. In my opinion it was a black day in Villa history when we accepted the concept of Martin O'Neill being a victim.

I must of dreamt about the 3 top 6 finishes. The European football. The carling cup final where the referee awarded the cup to man United.  The f.a cup semi final the 6-0 away to Derby & the 5-1 victory over the Scum.

And the five years subsequently paying the price.

Sorry but when a manager leaves a club regardless of the circumstances it's ridiculous to blame him for the shit we are in 5 years later.

The current malaise isn't all his fault, but he sowed the seeds of our demise.  Or do you think that Leeds fans think the Champions League semi final was worth the price they've had to pay since?

And I bet they still blame Peter Ridsdale.

They're not fickle they just don't like him....

He was our best manager for 20 years. And grudging respect to Deadly he done the deal wirh Oneill.Lerner has proved his utter incompetence ever since. O'Neill wasn't perfect by a long shot but he had something about him. His motivation skilks were top drawer..A better chairman / owner would of controlled the situation better and built on it. The buck stops right at the top in my opinion.

Was he fuck.

Yes, that's absolute bollocks and verging on blasphemy.

Well who the fuck was better in the last 20 years?

[PeterWithesShin]

Well who the fuck was better in the last 20 years?

This is who the fuck was better.