Remi Garde - Departs Aston Villa

[ClaretAndBlueBlood]

He can't keep coming out, week after week openly asking for his players to offer him more. At some point Garde must be held accountable for the fact that his players aren't performing for him and they're not even close to giving their all for him. He's not getting 100% from them. Even if we had a manager doing that, this lot would still struggle to stay up. Unfortunately we need one of those managers, as O Neill was, who can get a group of players playing above themselves.

If they are not able to perform that's not his fault.

They are able to though. And you can't excuse the awful team selections and tactical deficiencies. The squad isn't very good, but it shouldn't be as piss awful as it has been, and we're not the 20th worst squad in the Premier League on paper. We're just the most feckless, woefully run and managed side in the top flight.
Every manager at every club across the world has to take responsibility for that teams results. That's what you sign up for when you take up the job. Sometimes circumstances are tough. Sometimes you get a raw deal, but you still have to get the best out of what you have. I don't think Remi is getting that. Not even close. Would we stay up if this lot were playing to their best? Maybe not, but at the very least we should be going down fighting.
Yes this is 90% Randy's fault for being a feck brained cretin, but Remi has been atrocious. All excuses aside he's been atrocious.

You summarize nicely why the next manager will fail regardless - he only has a 10% impact and the 90% will still screw it up. But $2m more debt and a new face will appease the fickle

Oh it will fail. We know that. Until Randy sells up we're stuck. What the club needs is a total change from top to bottom. Ideally Hollis could possibly oversea a degree of stability, and the recent appointments suggest some kind of logic finally being used. Will it change anything? Probably not. But we still need fresh managerial impetus for the playing squad in the summer because it just seems patently clear that Remi's heart isn't in it.
I do agree though without a change in the way the club is run, no amount of managerial changes will make a difference, which is why the coming summer is pretty much the most defining one this club has had in decades.

what makes you think his heart isn't in it?

[levico]

Yes, playing the long game is correct in general terms but it begs the question - how long is long?

Also, in specific terms, when some companies are broken they remain so for many years e.g. I am never going to get my money back on my RBS shares.

I fear that Villa maybe 'broken' for the foreseable future, particularly if Lerner also plays the long game. As you say, Brian, he won't sell quickly and cheaply. He'll go for damage limitation in terms of operating costs and bunker down for 10 years in so. Who knows where we'll be then.

[Risso]

The situation is very clear.  You either believe Randy Lerner is going to cut and run regardless of the losses he has sustained or he is going to stay and ride out the slump in the value of his asset.  You believe what you like.  If you favour the doomsday scenario that is your choice.  My attitude to such a business dilemma based on a long lifetime of wealth generation for others, my family and myself is to play the long game.  You can never deny funding to any business you want to save.  Economise yes, eat your seed corn no.

There is s also another simple choice of beliefs to address.  Once again the choice is yours.  You either believe we are always going to play badly, lose games and go  into a spiral of endless decline or you believe we will pull out of this terrible run of form and start to win again.

I sympathise with the former scenario and from my weekly attendance at Villa games often am tempted to support the doomsday concept but in times of cooler more level headed judgement I know the latter is the reality.

History seems to indicate that Randy Lerner is not good at making business calls, he may get this one wrong again but any advisor, be it King or Bernstein or Maynard Keynes reincarnate would advise him against jettisoning his investment at rock bottom value.

Villa's future is uncertain.  This forum exists for us to express our views. Mine is that there are better, more stable times ahead.

You'd just completely contradicted your earlier post when you said that the decision to not spend in January was a sound business one.  It wasn't, it was foolishness in the extreme.  When you've still got a chance to save a failing investment, you take it.  Spending £10m may have been enough to keep us up, and even if not, would have given us the chance to at least keep Garde on side, keep some of the wankers out of the side, and start getting the team ready for next year.  If he doesn't want to sell at rock bottom value, he should have looked after it a bit better, because right now, he doesn't have much of a choice.

[passport1]

The situation is very clear.  You either believe Randy Lerner is going to cut and run regardless of the losses he has sustained or he is going to stay and ride out the slump in the value of his asset.  You believe what you like.  If you favour the doomsday scenario that is your choice.  My attitude to such a business dilemma based on a long lifetime of wealth generation for others, my family and myself is to play the long game.  You can never deny funding to any business you want to save.  Economise yes, eat your seed corn no.

There is s also another simple choice of beliefs to address.  Once again the choice is yours.  You either believe we are always going to play badly, lose games and go  into a spiral of endless decline or you believe we will pull out of this terrible run of form and start to win again.

I sympathise with the former scenario and from my weekly attendance at Villa games often am tempted to support the doomsday concept but in times of cooler more level headed judgement I know the latter is the reality.

History seems to indicate that Randy Lerner is not good at making business calls, he may get this one wrong again but any advisor, be it King or Bernstein or Maynard Keynes reincarnate would advise him against jettisoning his investment at rock bottom value.

Villa's future is uncertain.  This forum exists for us to express our views. Mine is that there are better, more stable times ahead.

The problem with comparing football clubs to ordinary businesses is that the fate of ordinary businesses do not rest on 90 mins once or twice a week.

Most professionals in the business and investment world would not touch football clubs with a barge pole.

The idea that applying some business principals will somehow lead to sunny times ahead is in my opinion fanciful at best.

[django]

I was only nine at the time so i can't remember but was there this much support for McNeill in 87?

[Lastfootstamper]

I was only nine at the time so i can't remember but was there this much support for McNeill in 87?

No. But he didn't seem to give a shit from the moment he rocked up here from working his magic at Maine Road.

[Toronto Villa]

The situation is very clear.  You either believe Randy Lerner is going to cut and run regardless of the losses he has sustained or he is going to stay and ride out the slump in the value of his asset.  You believe what you like.  If you favour the doomsday scenario that is your choice.  My attitude to such a business dilemma based on a long lifetime of wealth generation for others, my family and myself is to play the long game.  You can never deny funding to any business you want to save.  Economise yes, eat your seed corn no.

There is s also another simple choice of beliefs to address.  Once again the choice is yours.  You either believe we are always going to play badly, lose games and go  into a spiral of endless decline or you believe we will pull out of this terrible run of form and start to win again.

I sympathise with the former scenario and from my weekly attendance at Villa games often am tempted to support the doomsday concept but in times of cooler more level headed judgement I know the latter is the reality.

History seems to indicate that Randy Lerner is not good at making business calls, he may get this one wrong again but any advisor, be it King or Bernstein or Maynard Keynes reincarnate would advise him against jettisoning his investment at rock bottom value.

Villa's future is uncertain.  This forum exists for us to express our views. Mine is that there are better, more stable times ahead.

I'm with you Brian. If Randy wanted to maintain the status quo why appoint Hollis, and why then allow him to bring in King, Little and Bernstein at all? He could have just muddled along with Fox and his million pound a year contract. He's given up control of the club to those who might be able to fix it once and for all.

[Risso]

Because they're probably not being paid very much.  I would think King will be on a NED type rate of pay, and Little on a consultancy basis depending on how much they use him, which I would guess that past settling the fans down a bit, won't be very much.  It's also something that Merrill Lynch acting for the trust have insisted upon, because they have quite a big say on how much the club is sold for.

[Toronto Villa]

In your opinion Riss, what exactly would Merrill Lynch be saying at this point? Why has a buyer been that difficult in what is a team in the most lucrative sports league on the planet? When NBA or MLB teams are being sold for in excess of a billion $ why have we not been sold?

[gpbarr]

Those banging the drum for another manager will be the same ones banging the same drum in a years time, and the year after that, and the year after that. GUARANTEED 

So we should still have Lambert as manager? what about those banging the drum for keeping shit managers in a job? they usually see sense when it's too late and we're too deep in the shit. I can't think if a club who retained a poor manager and succeeded. You're clearly a big fan of Garde and I think it's clouding your argument. Club first.

Not a big fan of Garde, nor was I of Lambert. If you think spending 3-4m pounds every 1-2 years chopping managers is the solution, your clearly deluded.

The club always comes first which is why we need to stop repeating the same failure time and time again. Said it before and will say it again - the manager (whoever it is) is the very least of our problems.

[Dave]

Because they're probably not being paid very much.  I would think King will be on a NED type rate of pay, and Little on a consultancy basis depending on how much they use him, which I would guess that past settling the fans down a bit, won't be very much.

This came up on King's appointment and I think Dave Woodhall looked into it and confirmed that King wasn't being paid.

[Locko]

The situation is very clear.  You either believe Randy Lerner is going to cut and run regardless of the losses he has sustained or he is going to stay and ride out the slump in the value of his asset.  You believe what you like.  If you favour the doomsday scenario that is your choice.  My attitude to such a business dilemma based on a long lifetime of wealth generation for others, my family and myself is to play the long game.  You can never deny funding to any business you want to save.  Economise yes, eat your seed corn no.

There is s also another simple choice of beliefs to address.  Once again the choice is yours.  You either believe we are always going to play badly, lose games and go  into a spiral of endless decline or you believe we will pull out of this terrible run of form and start to win again.

I sympathise with the former scenario and from my weekly attendance at Villa games often am tempted to support the doomsday concept but in times of cooler more level headed judgement I know the latter is the reality.

History seems to indicate that Randy Lerner is not good at making business calls, he may get this one wrong again but any advisor, be it King or Bernstein or Maynard Keynes reincarnate would advise him against jettisoning his investment at rock bottom value.

Villa's future is uncertain.  This forum exists for us to express our views. Mine is that there are better, more stable times ahead.

Superb and very eloquently put. You've made me a believer.

[Risso]

Because they're probably not being paid very much.  I would think King will be on a NED type rate of pay, and Little on a consultancy basis depending on how much they use him, which I would guess that past settling the fans down a bit, won't be very much.

This came up on King's appointment and I think Dave Woodhall looked into it and confirmed that King wasn't being paid.

Sounds about right.  I wouldn't imagine Bernstein is on much either, although I don't know if he's more of a full time director or a NED.  I can't imagine that Lerner wants to increase the amounts paid to the executives by very much, given that he's already paying fox more than a million a year.

[Risso]

In your opinion Riss, what exactly would Merrill Lynch be saying at this point? Why has a buyer been that difficult in what is a team in the most lucrative sports league on the planet? When NBA or MLB teams are being sold for in excess of a billion $ why have we not been sold?

Because Lerner wants too much money, and obviously because in the past year or two there's been a very real doubt about us staying in that richest league, and now there's almost certainty that we won't be.  I've got the Merrill Lynch offer document, and it's all predicated on an upturn in business based on staying in the Premier League, ie the increase in TV money, selling the stadium naming rights and completing better corporate deals.  Those forecasts are now completely and utterly out of the window, for obvious reasons.  Any serious potential owner will see the reduction in turnover and the required rebuilding job, and factor that into what they're prepared to offer.

Then we're faced with an owner with a serious hole in his finances who can't afford to accept much less, and who can't afford to spend much more than the club generates.  It's an unholy mess, and is why I don't think we'll canter through the Championship.

[castlefields_villan]

I was only nine at the time so i can't remember but was there this much support for McNeill in 87?

No. But he didn't seem to give a shit from the moment he rocked up here from working his magic at Maine Road.

Just about the worst manager we've ever had (certainly in my time - which now extends to watching us for 49 years) - and yet as I remember he came in on twice Graham Turner's salary and was full of big talk to start with.  Shame I'd always admired him as a player at Celtic - the only manager ever to get 2 clubs relegated from the big time in the same season ?