Moyes?

[peter w]

I take the point that Everton fans weren't overly gushing with praise regarding Moyes so we have to take that into consideration. However, the team that finished 4th a few seasons ago battered us at Villa 3-1 and were a good team. After that they finished 5th repeatedly and are now always there or thereabouts around the European places. He clearly knows how to spot a player - picking up Baines, Jagielka, Cahill etc from lesser teams, and lower divisions in some cases - which we are running our club on, and makes them tough to beat and fit.

When we get to repeated top 5 top 10 finishes that's the time to criticise him and call for his head. When you're 19th and cut adrift after 5 seasons of trying to go down, isn't.

[Chris Smith]

We have to be realistic, if Moyes was flying high in Spain he wouldn't be an option; if Rogers had done better at Liverpool he would still be there and so on. Any appointment we make has an element of risk but with our situation as it is we should be looking to minimise as many of those risks as possible.

[passitsideways]

The potential problem with a manager like Moyes is whether he would be able to fully utilise the attacking players like Grealsih, Gil, Ayew, Traore etc.  It is plain to see that Sherwood doesn't really know how to do it and I'm not sure someone like Moyes would either.  I don't know if anyone has mentioned him on here, but the one who really interests me is Karanka at Middlesborough.  He's done a very good job turning them around and they are doing well again this season which suggests he isn't some kind of one season wonder.  He played and coached at Real Madrid, so knows about big clubs and should the worst come to the worst, he has a good track record in the Championship.   

Is there really any strong evidence suggesting that he would do a poor job with attacking players like Grealish, Gil or Traore? I suppose he didn't do very well with Kagawa or Mata, but again, that's a totally different level of expectation in terms of performances, and Januzaj played quite well for him. But at Everton, did he have any floaty playmaker types who he wasted? I seem to remember Arteta being quite good for them as a no. 10. On the other hand, there was that Russian winger who they bought for a lot and whose name escapes me now, and I don't think he did all that much while there.

[lordmcgrath5]

As much as I despise him, O'Neill walking out is beginning to look like a visionary move.

A lot on here refuse to admit it but we've been utter shite ever since he left. Three top six finishes in a row - hard to imagine now, isn't it?

That really isn't the point though, the way he achieved those finishes is what has scuppered us. The money he blew was horrendous, and while the buck ultimately stops with Lerner, O'Neill played his part by wasting vast sums on players who didn't warrant it. £65k a week on Emile Heskey being a prime example.

[/quote
How did that disappear as a problem when MON went? It didn't, because we had to keep paying him that money to contribute fuck all until the end date of his contract.

True enough about Heskey's wages, but you could look at most clubs in the league and point to shit signings with sky-high wages: Andy Carroll at Liverpool? Torres at Chelsea? Most clubs have got examples like this, and stupid wages are the Premier League way, especially for someone with international experience (no, he really did have this) like Heskey. I'll accept your point to the extent that the wages we were paying out may have had some impact on the money available to Houllier. But we're five years down the line since MON's departure. I think our malaise has got far more to do with Lerner's lack of interest and lowering of expectations than MON's legacy.

[Tony Erdington]

TBF,

Ferguson signed more duddens than gooduns, but he bought so many players and had that excellent crop of kids come through a lot let him off.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

We have to be realistic, if Moyes was flying high in Spain he wouldn't be an option; if Rogers had done better at Liverpool he would still be there and so on. Any appointment we make has an element of risk but with our situation as it is we should be looking to minimise as many of those risks as possible.

I agree with your logic, Chris but if we have to bring in a new manager, wouldn't it be great if we're not looking to replace him in year or two. We're forever in this vicious circle of desperately replacing a major failure in the hope of preserving our PL status. We allow through our poor manager selection to convince ourselves the new manager is an improvement on the previous when in fact they too are just as poor.

I really hope the penny drops and Lerner/Fox realise that the manager is the most important role throughout the whole club, go out there and bring in the best manager possible, by all means necessary. I realise our stock has massively fallen but with £100m minimum to pick up next season for PL clubs, you'd hope it would focus their minds.

I'm pretty sure Randy Lerner will be happy having not to pay two or three managers at a time. I'd imagine if we are to sack Sherwood he'll be paying Lambert, Sherwood and the new manager every month for the next few years. I can't be good for the soul nevermind the bank account.

[villa for life]

One of the amazing things about Moyes was the way he dealt with star players leaving. EFC used to find it hard to hang on to their better players such as Rooney and Arteta and when they left, I always used to relish the fact that it would finally be the time when Villa would leapfrog EFC in the table, but it never happened. No matter whether it was one of those types of players leaving or Tim Cahill retiring, the wheels just never really came off.

Arteta was huge for them before he left for Arsenal, and Cahill was just immense every time he played but after their departures, nothing really changed, and so it's actually really easy to forget just how much of a role they played.

Anyway, this for me, is another positive of offering David Moyes employment at Villa park.

[mr underhill]

Look, I want Tim gone now ; he's not fit for purpose. But is there really anything tangible to suggest that he's going to get the tin tack?

[pauliewalnuts]

True enough about Heskey's wages, but you could look at most clubs in the league and point to shit signings with sky-high wages: Andy Carroll at Liverpool? Torres at Chelsea? Most clubs have got examples like this, and stupid wages are the Premier League way, especially for someone with international experience (no, he really did have this) like Heskey. I'll accept your point to the extent that the wages we were paying out may have had some impact on the money available to Houllier. But we're five years down the line since MON's departure. I think our malaise has got far more to do with Lerner's lack of interest and lowering of expectations than MON's legacy.

The difference between Andy Carroll and Heskey is that Liverpool moved Carroll on.

Heskey stayed out his entire contract, meaning he didn't just fetch no fee, we paid his wages the full 3.5 years, long after MON was gone.

It is only relatively recently that we've shed the last of those long contract, big money players.

[john e]

Moyes is doing exactly the same job in Spain that Sherwood is doing at Villa, ie failing miserably

they cant win a match, down the bottom of the league, his overall win % rate is actually worse than Sherwoods, which takes some believing

and he's the one who's going to turn it all round for us ?

then we have a go at the board for making bad choices when our favourite is an equivalent loser,
yes he's done ok in the past but its the present we live in

Except one has an extended, and fairly recent history in English football of achieving exactly the sort of half-decent results we need; while the other one has so far only proven that he works as a short-term shot in the arm.

EDIT: As for saying "it's the present we live in", well, Mourinho's gotten off to an incredibly shitty start as well; does that mean he's now a crap manager as well as being a general tosser?

sort of makes it a bit worse saying that
he's making a bigger hash of it than Sherwood with all that experience, at least Sherwood's a rookie maybe he will learn maybe he wont, but Moyes is failing and he's the finished article guaranteed to dig us out of the pit, 
when in reality he's currently performing worse than the one we got

Or, the alternative (and I would submit is the far more convincing) inference is that he's having a short-term hiccup, and we should give more weight to his larger body of work. Even just last season he managed 37 points in 27 games, managing for the first time in a different country - why the fuck should we throw that out the window completely in favour of nine games to start this season?

because you can make a case for any manager you want, Lambert, Houllier, Sherwood

but we moan about the board making stupid decisions one after another,
 when the favourite next manager of many on this site is a man currently doing even worse than the manager we have already have,
you couldnt make this stuff up

As has been pointed out already this is actually not true, as Moyes has played just 8 games, obviously you can make this stuff up!

I heard it on the radio this morning, I think they are using all the games each manager have had since joining not just this season
I haven't mathmaticaly worked it out myself and I'm not going to be either,
 because 1. I don't know how to
 and 2. I cant be arsed

but whoever is correct, as it stands they are both failing badly

yep he might be great he might not, either way its a risk,

I don't mind taking risks but I would rather take one on someone a tad more exciting
I don't think that Moyes is the guaranteed success everyone thinks he will be , and actually think he's just as big a gamble as many others

[supertom]

Moyes over Sherwood. For sure. I think potentially we're exactly the sort of club that would suit him. I think he needs to come back to England. His style isn't suited for Spain. Last season Sociedad finished 12th which isn't too shabby for them generally, albeit after a couple of years of over achievement. It wasn't long ago they were languishing in the Segunda.
I think he'd make us tough to beat. I think we've got some decent enough players here who could work well for him. I think he'll keep us up.
We won't be brilliant. We won't be pretty but we'll survive.
Under Sherwood we're a shambles.

I'm not sure who else would come and do the job. I wouldn't be adverse to Rodgers either. I'm all for a foreign coach but it just doesn't seem like something we'd do, nor would we fork out top dollar for someone with a good rep. We got Houllier out of semi-retirement, a long way past his best, and having had 4-5 years in this country managing.

[Ron Manager]

Look. Assuming Sherwood is leaving B6 in the immediate future we have to employ someone else to get us out of this mess. Agreed

Moyes will do.He knows the Premier League and has been reasonably successful at his job in the not too distant past.

He is the favoured choice of most on here.

Fox needs to put the wheels in motion (if he hasn't already) and get him!

[john e]

Moyes over Sherwood. For sure. I think potentially we're exactly the sort of club that would suit him. I think he needs to come back to England. His style isn't suited for Spain. Last season Sociedad finished 12th which isn't too shabby for them generally, albeit after a couple of years of over achievement. It wasn't long ago they were languishing in the Segunda.
I think he'd make us tough to beat. I think we've got some decent enough players here who could work well for him. I think he'll keep us up.
We won't be brilliant. We won't be pretty but we'll survive.
Under Sherwood we're a shambles.

I'm not sure who else would come and do the job. I wouldn't be adverse to Rodgers either. I'm all for a foreign coach but it just doesn't seem like something we'd do, nor would we fork out top dollar for someone with a good rep. We got Houllier out of semi-retirement, a long way past his best, and having had 4-5 years in this country managing.

to be honest I'm pretty chilled about whoever a new manager is now that Pullis and Allardyce are out of the frame
any of the names mentioned apart from Pearson would be ok with me

the points i'm making about Moyes is he would still be a roll of the dice, as would any of the managers linked

[Tom_Mc9?]

To turn our noses up at the likes of Moyes in our current situation would be up there with the daftest of decisions.

He's a risk - of course he's a risk- but very few managers aren't and even fewer (if any) are obtainable for us in our current shitty ways.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

To turn our noses up at the likes of Moyes in our current situation would be up there with the daftest of decisions.

It depends if you think we deserve to be in our position with the current squad and just how difficult to fix it it would be for a new manager.

Another point that should be considered is Moyes the right man to adapt to the club's strategy of buying young, talented players, mainly from Europe and developing them with a possibility of selling them on at our convenience? We had a similar situation when we hired Lambert and what was clearly evident was that he was the wrong man for that specific job.