Sutton, you are a poor a 'pundit' as you were a stiker for us !!
Quote from: andyh on October 16, 2015, 12:49:45 PMSutton, you are a poor a 'pundit' as you were a stiker for us !! apart from this...UTVThe Doc
Just caught a bit of Sherwoods press conference, I assume from today.His manner and answers reminded me of Paul Lambert.....
Quote from: ClaretAndBlueBlood on October 16, 2015, 11:55:50 AMQuote from: passitsideways on October 16, 2015, 11:08:42 AMQuote from: Monty on October 16, 2015, 10:57:20 AMQuote from: passitsideways on October 16, 2015, 10:40:44 AMHow was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.He hasn't exactly had all that many opportunities to replicate his strategies elsewhere: United is in a totally different stratosphere, and Spanish football is very different, so I don't see how that can be substantially used as an example here.I don't really get the point you make about his success being built out of a platform established a while ago - isn't the point there that he was the one who built that platform?As for the players he'll use, it's too hard to tell. I personally believe he would play Grealish and Gil, if maybe not every game. He brought through Januzaj at United and I'm sure he would've played Barkley if he had stayed at Everton.In order: - Lambert was a water-treader because, of all the managers in the world, they yet-again decided that 'Premier League experience' was the vital criterion. That's such a conservative and insular way of thinking, and designed to do nothing but hopefully keep us bumbling safely around this league. Moyes would be similar. - Those circumstances may well have been unusual, but they're still all we have. I don't think the evidence is there to suggest he'd take us down, but I don't think it's there to suggest he'd be much of a modernising force at the club. If he were, he could have done quite well in Spain; as he isn't, he hasn't. - Yes he built the platform, but my point is that the game has moved on since that platform - a defence of stoppers, Lee Carsley in midfield, long-balls-to-the-big-man - was really effective in the Premier League. It's maximum position used to be 5th or even 4th, but now it's probably 12th at absolute best, and Everton continued to do well because of stability (much underrated). Now, I'd kill for 12th right now, but it would all be a bit pointless. - On Jack and Gil, I think Moyes would think more like Ads, who I think is basically wrong - we could play them both as the wide-ish players in a 4-3-3 with Ayew up front. I wouldn't expect anything other than Gestede as the focal point under Moyes.Basically all fair points, but I suppose we differ in terms of how we want the club to get from point A to point B (point B presumably being a club consistently in play for the European spots.) I consider it a two-step process where we hire someone boring to start it off, while working particularly hard to identify the successor who takes the big steps.I don't really think it's a matter of 'modernising', so to speak, that we should be prioritising. I know it's not ideal to have someone as dull as Moyes in there, but we've run ourselves into such a mess that honestly I think that no other approach is all that realistic (or as a different way of expressing it, I think it would be too much of a gamble.)I agree entirely with that. Our first priority is to stay up this season, then 2 or 3 seasons of mid table obscurity at worst where we aren't in any serious danger of flirting with relegation, and then we can think about pushing onto the next stage of being around the top 7 or 8.Not a very exciting prospect really and that is a large reason as to why football is broken, where is the excitement in trying to finish 8th if you have a good season?I agree totally but how many seasons have we been saying this for? We haven't even got close to the Mid table Obscurity for sometime now.
Quote from: passitsideways on October 16, 2015, 11:08:42 AMQuote from: Monty on October 16, 2015, 10:57:20 AMQuote from: passitsideways on October 16, 2015, 10:40:44 AMHow was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.He hasn't exactly had all that many opportunities to replicate his strategies elsewhere: United is in a totally different stratosphere, and Spanish football is very different, so I don't see how that can be substantially used as an example here.I don't really get the point you make about his success being built out of a platform established a while ago - isn't the point there that he was the one who built that platform?As for the players he'll use, it's too hard to tell. I personally believe he would play Grealish and Gil, if maybe not every game. He brought through Januzaj at United and I'm sure he would've played Barkley if he had stayed at Everton.In order: - Lambert was a water-treader because, of all the managers in the world, they yet-again decided that 'Premier League experience' was the vital criterion. That's such a conservative and insular way of thinking, and designed to do nothing but hopefully keep us bumbling safely around this league. Moyes would be similar. - Those circumstances may well have been unusual, but they're still all we have. I don't think the evidence is there to suggest he'd take us down, but I don't think it's there to suggest he'd be much of a modernising force at the club. If he were, he could have done quite well in Spain; as he isn't, he hasn't. - Yes he built the platform, but my point is that the game has moved on since that platform - a defence of stoppers, Lee Carsley in midfield, long-balls-to-the-big-man - was really effective in the Premier League. It's maximum position used to be 5th or even 4th, but now it's probably 12th at absolute best, and Everton continued to do well because of stability (much underrated). Now, I'd kill for 12th right now, but it would all be a bit pointless. - On Jack and Gil, I think Moyes would think more like Ads, who I think is basically wrong - we could play them both as the wide-ish players in a 4-3-3 with Ayew up front. I wouldn't expect anything other than Gestede as the focal point under Moyes.Basically all fair points, but I suppose we differ in terms of how we want the club to get from point A to point B (point B presumably being a club consistently in play for the European spots.) I consider it a two-step process where we hire someone boring to start it off, while working particularly hard to identify the successor who takes the big steps.I don't really think it's a matter of 'modernising', so to speak, that we should be prioritising. I know it's not ideal to have someone as dull as Moyes in there, but we've run ourselves into such a mess that honestly I think that no other approach is all that realistic (or as a different way of expressing it, I think it would be too much of a gamble.)I agree entirely with that. Our first priority is to stay up this season, then 2 or 3 seasons of mid table obscurity at worst where we aren't in any serious danger of flirting with relegation, and then we can think about pushing onto the next stage of being around the top 7 or 8.Not a very exciting prospect really and that is a large reason as to why football is broken, where is the excitement in trying to finish 8th if you have a good season?
Quote from: Monty on October 16, 2015, 10:57:20 AMQuote from: passitsideways on October 16, 2015, 10:40:44 AMHow was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.He hasn't exactly had all that many opportunities to replicate his strategies elsewhere: United is in a totally different stratosphere, and Spanish football is very different, so I don't see how that can be substantially used as an example here.I don't really get the point you make about his success being built out of a platform established a while ago - isn't the point there that he was the one who built that platform?As for the players he'll use, it's too hard to tell. I personally believe he would play Grealish and Gil, if maybe not every game. He brought through Januzaj at United and I'm sure he would've played Barkley if he had stayed at Everton.In order: - Lambert was a water-treader because, of all the managers in the world, they yet-again decided that 'Premier League experience' was the vital criterion. That's such a conservative and insular way of thinking, and designed to do nothing but hopefully keep us bumbling safely around this league. Moyes would be similar. - Those circumstances may well have been unusual, but they're still all we have. I don't think the evidence is there to suggest he'd take us down, but I don't think it's there to suggest he'd be much of a modernising force at the club. If he were, he could have done quite well in Spain; as he isn't, he hasn't. - Yes he built the platform, but my point is that the game has moved on since that platform - a defence of stoppers, Lee Carsley in midfield, long-balls-to-the-big-man - was really effective in the Premier League. It's maximum position used to be 5th or even 4th, but now it's probably 12th at absolute best, and Everton continued to do well because of stability (much underrated). Now, I'd kill for 12th right now, but it would all be a bit pointless. - On Jack and Gil, I think Moyes would think more like Ads, who I think is basically wrong - we could play them both as the wide-ish players in a 4-3-3 with Ayew up front. I wouldn't expect anything other than Gestede as the focal point under Moyes.Basically all fair points, but I suppose we differ in terms of how we want the club to get from point A to point B (point B presumably being a club consistently in play for the European spots.) I consider it a two-step process where we hire someone boring to start it off, while working particularly hard to identify the successor who takes the big steps.I don't really think it's a matter of 'modernising', so to speak, that we should be prioritising. I know it's not ideal to have someone as dull as Moyes in there, but we've run ourselves into such a mess that honestly I think that no other approach is all that realistic (or as a different way of expressing it, I think it would be too much of a gamble.)
Quote from: passitsideways on October 16, 2015, 10:40:44 AMHow was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.He hasn't exactly had all that many opportunities to replicate his strategies elsewhere: United is in a totally different stratosphere, and Spanish football is very different, so I don't see how that can be substantially used as an example here.I don't really get the point you make about his success being built out of a platform established a while ago - isn't the point there that he was the one who built that platform?As for the players he'll use, it's too hard to tell. I personally believe he would play Grealish and Gil, if maybe not every game. He brought through Januzaj at United and I'm sure he would've played Barkley if he had stayed at Everton.In order: - Lambert was a water-treader because, of all the managers in the world, they yet-again decided that 'Premier League experience' was the vital criterion. That's such a conservative and insular way of thinking, and designed to do nothing but hopefully keep us bumbling safely around this league. Moyes would be similar. - Those circumstances may well have been unusual, but they're still all we have. I don't think the evidence is there to suggest he'd take us down, but I don't think it's there to suggest he'd be much of a modernising force at the club. If he were, he could have done quite well in Spain; as he isn't, he hasn't. - Yes he built the platform, but my point is that the game has moved on since that platform - a defence of stoppers, Lee Carsley in midfield, long-balls-to-the-big-man - was really effective in the Premier League. It's maximum position used to be 5th or even 4th, but now it's probably 12th at absolute best, and Everton continued to do well because of stability (much underrated). Now, I'd kill for 12th right now, but it would all be a bit pointless. - On Jack and Gil, I think Moyes would think more like Ads, who I think is basically wrong - we could play them both as the wide-ish players in a 4-3-3 with Ayew up front. I wouldn't expect anything other than Gestede as the focal point under Moyes.
How was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.He hasn't exactly had all that many opportunities to replicate his strategies elsewhere: United is in a totally different stratosphere, and Spanish football is very different, so I don't see how that can be substantially used as an example here.I don't really get the point you make about his success being built out of a platform established a while ago - isn't the point there that he was the one who built that platform?As for the players he'll use, it's too hard to tell. I personally believe he would play Grealish and Gil, if maybe not every game. He brought through Januzaj at United and I'm sure he would've played Barkley if he had stayed at Everton.
I'm really fed up of the English, safety first, defend and counter football that he'd bring. I get the need for defensive stability , it's obviously a big boost to your ability to win games but I want other teams to be worrying about what we're going to be doing rather than the constant concern of how we nullify them.
TS on fans.. 'They were singing my name three weeks ago - they will be singing it in three weeks time.'
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Topic: Poll - Sherwood - got rid (Read 422398 times)
