Poll - Sherwood - got rid

[andyh]

This extract alone,  from the Sutton article above proves that it is just the 'old boys network' sticking up for each.

In reality, its better suited to printing off and wiping your arse on.

'However good Grealish is going forward, he does not always put in a shift going back the other way.
    When you lose possession, you need to be compact and tight defensively and Villa have lacked that in the games I have seen, notably in their defeat by Leicester when they were hit on the counter-attack time and time again'.

So the defeat at leicester was down to Jack not putting a defensive shift in.
Nothing to do with the shite substitutions that decimated our midfield and allowed Leicester to rampage through the middle.   
Nothing to do with taking Gil off, and bringing Ayew on.
Nothing to do with SEEING we were being ripped to shreds and doing nothing to protect the back 4.

It was all Jacks fault !!!

Sutton, you are a poor a 'pundit' as you were a stiker for us !!

[Dr Butler]

Sutton, you are a poor a 'pundit' as you were a stiker for us !!

apart from this...

UTV
The Doc

[pauliewalnuts]

Sutton, you are a poor a 'pundit' as you were a stiker for us !!

apart from this...

UTV
The Doc

Isaiah Osbourne about to make his one and only telling contribution for us, there.

[Witton Warrior]

Interesting and possibly, for the first time. accurate idea from the Sun that Mr Lerner will not be happy with Tactics breaking ranks and appearing to blame members of the Villa staff - the reason Lambo lasted so long is that he always appeared utterly loyal to Brand Lerner - Tim may well have pissed on his chips there...

[Nev]

Just caught a bit of Sherwoods press conference, I assume from today.

His manner and answers reminded me of Paul Lambert.....

[LeeB]

Just caught a bit of Sherwoods press conference, I assume from today.

His manner and answers reminded me of Paul Lambert.....

His playing with no wingers and leaving his midfield and full backs hopelessly overrun is what's reminding me of Lambert with him.

That and relentlessly losing football matches.

[Clampy]

I don't think there's anything wrong with that Sutton article at all really. It's just an opinion at the end of the day.

[ClaretAndBlueBlood]

How was Lambert a "treading water" deal? He was regarded as a promising young manager who could get the club upwardly mobile again, rather than a stabiliser cast in the mould of Allardyce or Moyes.

He hasn't exactly had all that many opportunities to replicate his strategies elsewhere: United is in a totally different stratosphere, and Spanish football is very different, so I don't see how that can be substantially used as an example here.

I don't really get the point you make about his success being built out of a platform established a while ago - isn't the point there that he was the one who built that platform?

As for the players he'll use, it's too hard to tell. I personally believe he would play Grealish and Gil, if maybe not every game. He brought through Januzaj at United and I'm sure he would've played Barkley if he had stayed at Everton.

In order:

 - Lambert was a water-treader because, of all the managers in the world, they yet-again decided that 'Premier League experience' was the vital criterion. That's such a conservative and insular way of thinking, and designed to do nothing but hopefully keep us bumbling safely around this league. Moyes would be similar.

 - Those circumstances may well have been unusual, but they're still all we have. I don't think the evidence is there to suggest he'd take us down, but I don't think it's there to suggest he'd be much of a modernising force at the club. If he were, he could have done quite well in Spain; as he isn't, he hasn't.

 - Yes he built the platform, but my point is that the game has moved on since that platform - a defence of stoppers, Lee Carsley in midfield, long-balls-to-the-big-man - was really effective in the Premier League. It's maximum position used to be 5th or even 4th, but now it's probably 12th at absolute best, and Everton continued to do well because of stability (much underrated). Now, I'd kill for 12th right now, but it would all be a bit pointless.

 - On Jack and Gil, I think Moyes would think more like Ads, who I think is basically wrong - we could play them both as the wide-ish players in a 4-3-3 with Ayew up front. I wouldn't expect anything other than Gestede as the focal point under Moyes.

Basically all fair points, but I suppose we differ in terms of how we want the club to get from point A to point B (point B presumably being a club consistently in play for the European spots.) I consider it a two-step process where we hire someone boring to start it off, while working particularly hard to identify the successor who takes the big steps.

I don't really think it's a matter of 'modernising', so to speak, that we should be prioritising. I know it's not ideal to have someone as dull as Moyes in there, but we've run ourselves into such a mess that honestly I think that no other approach is all that realistic (or as a different way of expressing it, I think it would be too much of a gamble.)

I agree entirely with that. Our first priority is to stay up this season, then 2 or 3 seasons of mid table obscurity at worst where we aren't in any serious danger of flirting with relegation, and then we can think about pushing onto the next stage of being around the top 7 or 8.

Not a very exciting prospect really and that is a large reason as to why football is broken, where is the excitement in trying to finish 8th if you have a good season?

I agree totally but how many seasons have we been saying this for? We haven't even got close to the Mid table Obscurity for sometime now.

too many but if you are looking for someone to stabilise the league position, then Moyes is the stand out candidate. I agree that he isn't very exciting but, with excitement comes a certain amount of risk, and I don't think we can afford to go for an exciting appointment at the moment (if they get rid of Tim of course)

[Chico Hamilton III]

If Lerner is interested in Moyes then he needs to get a bit ruthless and act quickly with Sherwood. Otherwise I can see someone like Newcastle snapping Moyes up pretty soon.

[Monty]

I wouldn't be unhappy with Moyes, but I'm not sure how happy I'd be. I could envisage exactly the complaints on here after a season or so - no creativity, functional football, looking all stodgy and British compared to our rivals etc - but then there'd be a good chance we'd be complaining about life in the Premier League, rather than the Championship.

[paul_e]

I'm with Monty on this, I'd be ok with Moyes and if we hadn't had McLeish, Lambert and Sherwood as the last 3 managers I'd be ok with him but I'm really fed up of the English, safety first, defend and counter football that he'd bring.  I get the need for defensive stability , it's obviously a big boost to your ability to win games but I want other teams to be worrying about what we're going to be doing rather than the constant concern of how we nullify them. I'm not saying you can't be effective playing that (the current champions won a title on the back of it) I just want us to try something different.  When Sherwood arrived we attacked with some freedom and it got the fans onside, then he lost his nerve and made us more defensive and the fans are turning on him for it.

[FranzBiberkopf]

I'm really fed up of the English, safety first, defend and counter football that he'd bring.  I get the need for defensive stability , it's obviously a big boost to your ability to win games but I want other teams to be worrying about what we're going to be doing rather than the constant concern of how we nullify them.

I know it was only one game, but that certainly wasn't what I was thinking when Everton gave us a lesson at VP in Lambert's first home game a few seasons ago. Everton were the best team I saw all season that year. They tore us to pieces.

[conman]

TS on fans.. 'They were singing my name three weeks ago - they will be singing it in three weeks time.'

yeah ,,,,,,,,sherwood out if your still here

[SamTheMouse]

I'm torn on this, but on balance I think I'd probably have to agree with Monty too. Considering our current position, Moyes would clearly not be a bad appointment as such. He might make us a more solid proposition, more difficult to play against. But throughout his Everton reign, he did rely on a fairly settled core of British players who played in a fairly industrious, high octane fashion similar to O'Neill's sides. It worked well enough then, but I think the emphasis on physicality means there's a ceiling to what can be achieved by that approach. It burns players out more quickly, and might explain why Moyes' sides - again, like O'Neill's - tended to have one good half-season, and one rather indifferent one.

This article illustrates quite neatly the difference between Moyes' Everton, and Martinez's more Swansea-esque ethos:
http://statsbomb.com/2014/11/moyes-vs-martinez-which-everton-manager-has-been-better/

Fair enough, even a good half-season is better than what we're looking at right now. But I have to say, I don't think our current squad is at all suited to that approach, and suspect Moyes would struggle for a fair while, until he could seriously overhaul the squad with a core of British worker ants. And as we know, they come at a premium cost.

All things considered, I wouldn't be unhappy with Moyes, but I do think it would be a bit of a wasted opportunity. There are other, more progressive options out there, if only we deigned to consider them.

[PaulWinch again]

To be honest I'd be happy with Moyes. I'll take mid-table security for a few seasons, that'd be really nice and occasionally winning some games.