Poll - Sherwood - got rid

[Clampy]

Anyway, if a new manager does come in, he's not going to know his best side either. I'm with John, it's too soon to be talking about getting rid of him or relegation.

A new manager won't, but he won't have had them for months including a full pre-season.

8 games gone, 6 defeats, 4 points from safety, a manager that has said he doesn't have a clue what he wants or is trying to do, complains they aren't fit enough despite it being his job to make sure they are. Normally i'd agree but because of the first sentence I don't think it is too early to be talking about. I'm usually Mr Optimistic and stuck by Lambert a lot longer than most, but Sherwood is worrying me a lot.

I understand the frustrations, it's been an horrendous start but I just honestly think 8 games is too soon.

Why? Balls to it being a smallish sample of games, what have you seen of his work this season that convinces you to persevere with him?

I don't hate Sherwood. I would much prefer it if he succeeded. But not only is he not succeeding, he is approaching trying to fix that in ever more mental ways.

Maybe because we're not being thrashed out of sight every week, but that doesn't mean we've been unlucky either, we have been poor but not Lambert against Hull type poor. I think some of his team selections and substitutions have been baffling and that's being kind but like I said earlier, 14 new players in and 8 game in, I'd give him a bit more time.

[Clampy]

Did he give you any pork scratchings?

Mr Porky is not a bad name for Big Sam.

[ozzjim]

Did you tap him up for the Villa Risso?

[Risso]

Did you tap him up for the Villa Risso?

Of course!

[paul_e]

8 games is too soon if there is any signal of what he wants to do and for that reason I was firmly in the undecided camp on this until he himself said that he didn't know what to do, for me that really is unforgivable.  If he came out and said "we have a plan for what we want to do but we're struggling to move it from training onto the pitch" I'd agree with the idea of 4-6 more games but I just don't trust him now.

[russon]

I'm tired of us luring non-Villa men. Roy Keane, Ray Wilkins, these people are just not Villa. Billy McNeil's another (shudders). It was the same when we bought players like Fashanu, McAvennie and Cascarino, you just knew there would never be a connection and they were plodding through their careers taking the money where they could, Villa were a welcome stepping stone.

I get that football's moved on and foreign managers proliferate but right now we need a manger who understands Villa, someone who fits. Sherwood was never going to fit and as for Wilkins he couldn't fit into a lift these days, remove his cake and chips allowance and he'll walk (or roll).

[paul_e]

I'm tired of us luring non-Villa men. Roy Keane, Ray Wilkins, these people are just not Villa. Billy McNeil's another (shudders). It was the same when we bought players like Fashanu, McAvennie and Cascarino, you just knew there would never be a connection and they were plodding through their careers taking the money where they could, Villa were a welcome stepping stone.

I get that football's moved on and foreign managers proliferate but right now we need a manger who understands Villa, someone who fits. Sherwood was never going to fit and as for Wilkins he couldn't fit into a lift these days, remove his cake and chips allowance and he'll walk (or roll).

Bold bit, how does that help?  How do you measure it? How does it show how suitable someone is for the job?

You see this from almost every club when they're looking for a new manager but I don't get why it's a requirement.  I want someone who can win football matches and do it with a bit of style.  If that means getting someone from Peru who has never heard of aston villa then so be it.  I want a manager who realises how big we are but doesn't feel intimidated by it and start playing safety first football.  Sherwood showed signs of that but the last month have proven him to be yet another victim.

Of the candidates mentioned for other jobs Ronald De Boer would be at the top of the list for me.

[oldtimernow]

Sherwood's reign reminds me of the Doc's period in charge, initial improvement followed by dismal failure.

Vic Crowe ( a Villa man) came into to take over and give some stability to be then followed by the real guy.

Could history repeat itself?

[oldtimernow]

I'm tired of us luring non-Villa men. Roy Keane, Ray Wilkins, these people are just not Villa. Billy McNeil's another (shudders). It was the same when we bought players like Fashanu, McAvennie and Cascarino, you just knew there would never be a connection and they were plodding through their careers taking the money where they could, Villa were a welcome stepping stone.

I get that football's moved on and foreign managers proliferate but right now we need a manger who understands Villa, someone who fits. Sherwood was never going to fit and as for Wilkins he couldn't fit into a lift these days, remove his cake and chips allowance and he'll walk (or roll).

Bold bit, how does that help?  How do you measure it? How does it show how suitable someone is for the job?

You see this from almost every club when they're looking for a new manager but I don't get why it's a requirement.  I want someone who can win football matches and do it with a bit of style.  If that means getting someone from Peru who has never heard of aston villa then so be it.  I want a manager who realises how big we are but doesn't feel intimidated by it and start playing safety first football.  Sherwood showed signs of that but the last month have proven him to be yet another victim.

Of the candidates mentioned for other jobs Ronald De Boer would be at the top of the list for me.

do you mean Frank?

[Legion]

McAvennie?

[peter w]

Spencer? We've already got him.

[Villa in Denmark]

I'm tired of us luring non-Villa men. Roy Keane, Ray Wilkins, these people are just not Villa. Billy McNeil's another (shudders). It was the same when we bought players like Fashanu, McAvennie and Cascarino, you just knew there would never be a connection and they were plodding through their careers taking the money where they could, Villa were a welcome stepping stone.

I get that football's moved on and foreign managers proliferate but right now we need a manger who understands Villa, someone who fits. Sherwood was never going to fit and as for Wilkins he couldn't fit into a lift these days, remove his cake and chips allowance and he'll walk (or roll).

Bold bit, how does that help?  How do you measure it? How does it show how suitable someone is for the job?

You see this from almost every club when they're looking for a new manager but I don't get why it's a requirement.  I want someone who can win football matches and do it with a bit of style.  If that means getting someone from Peru who has never heard of aston villa then so be it.  I want a manager who realises how big we are but doesn't feel intimidated by it and start playing safety first football.  Sherwood showed signs of that but the last month have proven him to be yet another victim.

Of the candidates mentioned for other jobs Ronald De Boer would be at the top of the list for me.

Now for me all this must be a Villa man etc. etc., that's the embodiment of small time Newcastleness, and that's why they ended up with Keegan mk II and Shearer to seal the deal on
their relegation.

The bit about how big we are and not being intimidated by it - that's exactly why most of our managerial appointments wilt after a promising start.  They've completely underestimated what they've gotten themselves into and at some point it dawns on them, usually after the first significant setback and then they shit themselves.

In my life time I'd say Saunders, Barton, Taylor, Atkinson Little and as much as it galls me to say it MON understood it and had the wherewithal to deal with it.
Gregory understood but at some point wilted under the burden, probably around the time he realised he'd wasted that fantastic start to his first full season.
McLeish understood to an extent but was never going to be able to provide the football required to survive long term.

The rest either never understood or just completely underestimated what they'd got themselves into and were ultimately doomed from the start.


ps.  I hope you mean his more talented brother Frank?

[brian green]

Randle (catch phrase - excuse me, I am standing under your foot).  One for the crumblies.

[Villa in Denmark]

2 Entirely different scenarios.

Last season. Squad that knew each other and what the league was all about. Pretty much everyone was saying if we played more on the front footballing, with a bit more ambition we'd do much better.  Relatively simple fix.

This season. Pretty much completely new squad. Large proportion of the players new to the league. Floundering around trying to find some semblance of a team that works, whilst ignoring what's been behind our 3 best 45 minutes this season. Everything screams that he doesn't know what to do to fix this.

And even if you don't accept it's 2 different scenarios, by your logic Chelsea should be about 5 points clear at the top and Wigan would still be playing in the top flight.

What is it they say about financial investments? Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns?

That's not a concrete footballing reason , that's blind hope.

Although not directly in the question, in the context of the rest of what I wrote, I was looking for footballing reasons from this season.

Just saying he did it last year? That's not a concrete footballing reason , that's blind hope.

But it's still a reason, you might bat it away as your minds already made up,

But you can't rewrite history it happened,
whether you like it or not, whether it's two different scenarios or not,different players etc,
 he still kept us up last season and that is indisputable

You say by my reckoning Chelsea would be here and Wigan there,
But if you read my post I wasn't arguing against your points, they might well turn out to be true

You were asking for some evidence, and I gave you a bit, you don't like it or accept it, but that is all I was doing

First apologies if it's a bit of an injudicious cut of the quotathon, but somethinh had got to go.

To take your post point by point.

1. No my mind is not made up.  I'm pleading for people to show me something tangible that suggests that he can do something about this season
2. I'm not tryingt to re-write history.  That we survived last season is a matter of record and the reason there's so much consternation about our start to this season in the Premier League.
3. So you agree we've got something to be worried about then, if you're not arguing against my points and relegation with the current regime may well turn out to be true.
4. Stating a historical fact is no way shape or form evidence of what the future may hold in a system as fluid and volatile as the PL.  As soon as that first whistle blew in August everything that had gone before was deemed irrelevant, the slates wiped clean and you stand or fall based on what you achieve.

The problem is we're falling because we're achieving buggar all on the pitch and the levels of performance are going down hill quicker than an Olympic skier, which was exactly the problem that pointed to the inevitable failure of Lambert 6 months before results started to really catch up with him.

We went through a spell under Atkinson where we went something stupid like 5 or 6 games without scoring. I wasn't particularly worried because we were playing well and creating loads of chances.  It was a matter of time before someone got a good beating.  I was lucky enough to be at White Heart Lane when it happened and we came back from 2-0 down to win 5-2.

Regardless of relative ability levels the performance progression has been going backwards since the West Ham game last season that ultimately secured our safety last season.  There was a noticeable drop off in intensity from the Everton game that preceded it.

From what I've seen so far, I think he's a one trick pony and that trick was exhausted by the time he'd got through the semi final and all but secured safety against Everton.  The intensity died, the results went to shit and his self belief has followed that downward spiral.

In all probability he's going to get the chop at some point over the next couple of months because it doesn't look like a run of fixtures that encourage confidence in anything other than maybe scrabbling a couple of draws. In which case do it sooner rather than later and stop throwing points down the drain.  It might be the case that a couple of draws instead of defeats might be the difference come May.

[Ian.]

After reading that article on the other Sherwood thread I'd sack him now for complete lack of awareness, knowledge and for incompetence. So he wanted to buy Townsend, Lennon and Adebayor but ended up with these talented youngsters with great potential from overseas and doesn't know what to do with them.