Quote from: Jon Crofts on February 26, 2017, 06:34:20 PMPlaying 15 and the ref was always going to be tough + don't underestimate how difficult the conditions actually were today at Twickenham, the conditions were very difficult and not something a TV audience would see.Thought the ref had a very good game
Playing 15 and the ref was always going to be tough + don't underestimate how difficult the conditions actually were today at Twickenham, the conditions were very difficult and not something a TV audience would see.
Quote from: nigel on February 26, 2017, 08:12:43 PMQuote from: Jon Crofts on February 26, 2017, 06:34:20 PMPlaying 15 and the ref was always going to be tough + don't underestimate how difficult the conditions actually were today at Twickenham, the conditions were very difficult and not something a TV audience would see.Thought the ref had a very good gameHartley appeared bamboozled in the first half by the Italian's ruck play (well....non-ruck really)The ref was great. Loved his reaction to Hartley and Haskell asking what they should do......"I'm the Ref not a coach"Credit to Haskell for then rephrasing the question in a way that got them an insight into the Ref's view of the rucks.It was a great game plan by O'Shea and Venter but it was only going to work for half the game. Once Jones was able to talk to the England players, he was bound to come up with a solution.Terrible half-time analysis from Jonny, saying that England should drag Italian players in to form a ruck. The Ref had clearly stated that that action would not constitute a ruck because in order for one to form, Italy had to initiate the contact.My only criticism of the Ref was the way that he (correctly in the end) disallowed the one Nowell try. He blew the whistle before Nowell touched down, so there's no way he could have awarded the try if the replay hadn't shown the obstruction.A fascinating game
Quote from: UK Redsox on February 26, 2017, 09:33:24 PMQuote from: nigel on February 26, 2017, 08:12:43 PMQuote from: Jon Crofts on February 26, 2017, 06:34:20 PMPlaying 15 and the ref was always going to be tough + don't underestimate how difficult the conditions actually were today at Twickenham, the conditions were very difficult and not something a TV audience would see.Thought the ref had a very good gameHartley appeared bamboozled in the first half by the Italian's ruck play (well....non-ruck really)The ref was great. Loved his reaction to Hartley and Haskell asking what they should do......"I'm the Ref not a coach"Credit to Haskell for then rephrasing the question in a way that got them an insight into the Ref's view of the rucks.It was a great game plan by O'Shea and Venter but it was only going to work for half the game. Once Jones was able to talk to the England players, he was bound to come up with a solution.Terrible half-time analysis from Jonny, saying that England should drag Italian players in to form a ruck. The Ref had clearly stated that that action would not constitute a ruck because in order for one to form, Italy had to initiate the contact.My only criticism of the Ref was the way that he (correctly in the end) disallowed the one Nowell try. He blew the whistle before Nowell touched down, so there's no way he could have awarded the try if the replay hadn't shown the obstruction.A fascinating gameHe was right, though. The ref told Hartley and Haskell that if an Italian was within a metre they could be pulled in, hence forming a ruck
Quote from: nigel on February 26, 2017, 09:39:54 PMQuote from: UK Redsox on February 26, 2017, 09:33:24 PMQuote from: nigel on February 26, 2017, 08:12:43 PMQuote from: Jon Crofts on February 26, 2017, 06:34:20 PMPlaying 15 and the ref was always going to be tough + don't underestimate how difficult the conditions actually were today at Twickenham, the conditions were very difficult and not something a TV audience would see.Thought the ref had a very good gameHartley appeared bamboozled in the first half by the Italian's ruck play (well....non-ruck really)The ref was great. Loved his reaction to Hartley and Haskell asking what they should do......"I'm the Ref not a coach"Credit to Haskell for then rephrasing the question in a way that got them an insight into the Ref's view of the rucks.It was a great game plan by O'Shea and Venter but it was only going to work for half the game. Once Jones was able to talk to the England players, he was bound to come up with a solution.Terrible half-time analysis from Jonny, saying that England should drag Italian players in to form a ruck. The Ref had clearly stated that that action would not constitute a ruck because in order for one to form, Italy had to initiate the contact.My only criticism of the Ref was the way that he (correctly in the end) disallowed the one Nowell try. He blew the whistle before Nowell touched down, so there's no way he could have awarded the try if the replay hadn't shown the obstruction.A fascinating gameHe was right, though. The ref told Hartley and Haskell that if an Italian was within a metre they could be pulled in, hence forming a ruckIt's a very difficult one because pulling people in (such as the scrum-half) is a penalty offence so it would be a real tightrope. Keeping the ball off the floor (offloading) and quick pick and drive to force them to close the gaps was the right solution. Other than some truly pathetic defending by Ford and Brown the second half should've been 31-0 which would've been a fair reflection of the dominance once we got the hang of the breakdown.However all that said I thought the ref had an excellent game other than the Nowell disallowed try which he blew up far too early and I thought he should've checked for a high tackle in the first half. Can't remember who it was but the commentators mentioned it as well.
And that's my point regarding the referee, his rulings were ambiguous at best and as clear as mud. Owens would have provided clear direction I'm sure. Anyway, why was Nowells try disallowed, it certainly wasn't clear to us?Thanks Conor O'Shea for producing anti rugby for 82000 paying customers.
Quote from: Jon Crofts on February 27, 2017, 08:07:58 AMAnd that's my point regarding the referee, his rulings were ambiguous at best and as clear as mud. Owens would have provided clear direction I'm sure. Anyway, why was Nowells try disallowed, it certainly wasn't clear to us?Thanks Conor O'Shea for producing anti rugby for 82000 paying customers.Nowell nudged into Hughes and I think Hughes was adjudged to have impeded a tackler.I thought it harsh as from the camera angle it looked as if it was behind the ruck, or non ruck as the case may be. I'll need to remind myself on that.
I think that match might speed up the transition from Hartley to George. I like Hartley more than most, but he failed to find an answer to Italy's tactics and it shouldn't really need the coach to address it at half time. That criticism can be applied to most of the pack however as captain he should be managing the game on the pitch.
Thanks Nigel. Can a player be cited for simulation and being a huge Nancy? One Italian did a great impression of being felled by an imaginary tackle, he went down like Aarjen Robben, Ashley Young and Cristiano Ronaldo all rolled into one.
I for one am very proud of the Italian approach. They didn't go to Twickenham to lie down and die. They used the laws of the game to their advantage so much so that they easily won the first half. There was nothing new in what they did but the English team couldn't adapt until they were coached at half time. Of course it was going to change in the second hal. For the Italian press and support it was a moral victory and signs that with a good coach better times lie ahead. Forza italia.
Quote from: Abruzzo_John on February 27, 2017, 08:43:42 AMI for one am very proud of the Italian approach. They didn't go to Twickenham to lie down and die. They used the laws of the game to their advantage so much so that they easily won the first half. There was nothing new in what they did but the English team couldn't adapt until they were coached at half time. Of course it was going to change in the second hal. For the Italian press and support it was a moral victory and signs that with a good coach better times lie ahead. Forza italia.The problem is Italy won't develop their game if they start playing to stop the oposition rather than try to attack.Yes, it worked for 40 minutes, but, for me, it was a step backwards, as I doubt that tactic will work again.I remember a few years back Italy came to Twickenham and played some lovely stuff in the first half before falling away. The building blocks are there, they've just got to put them in place.Argentina were in the same boat, but, they have developed their game and are a first class team.