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Author Topic: International Rugby  (Read 381589 times)

Offline Jon Crofts

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #810 on: February 14, 2016, 05:45:31 PM »
Cole is a liability at times especially at the breakdown, he's just a clumsy oaf, little nouse or guile just an oaf.

Line out was shaky at times, unlike last weeks masterclass display from Hartley, what was it 14 from 15 last week?

Itoje slotted straight in and looks an absolute beast.

Online PaulWinch again

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #811 on: February 14, 2016, 06:53:44 PM »
Yep positives were the impact of the bench, Itoje in particular and the ability to keep pressing. Negatives were sluggishness and imprecision in first 50 mins, Haskell and for me Farrell at 12 just not working. It's either got to be Ford or Farrell at 10, because at the moment they both appear to be battling for who has ultimate control and it ends up with neither of them having control.

Offline nigel

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #812 on: February 14, 2016, 09:50:46 PM »
Horribly poor 50 from England, Cole and Youngs in particular have been utter shite.

Yet Youngs was man MotM and the pundits were saying how immense Cole was.

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #813 on: February 15, 2016, 07:42:19 PM »
Horribly poor 50 from England, Cole and Youngs in particular have been utter shite.

Yet Youngs was man MotM and the pundits were saying how immense Cole was.

The MOTM decision was ridiculed on the BBC highlights show.

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #814 on: February 15, 2016, 07:55:34 PM »
Yep positives were the impact of the bench, Itoje in particular and the ability to keep pressing. Negatives were sluggishness and imprecision in first 50 mins, Haskell and for me Farrell at 12 just not working. It's either got to be Ford or Farrell at 10, because at the moment they both appear to be battling for who has ultimate control and it ends up with neither of them having control.

I agree with the Ford/Farrell comments, we seem to have two players doing half a job whereas - at some point in the future - we'll have Slade, Joseph, Tuilagi and Daly as more specialist centres.  I'd prefer Farrell and Ford to be competing for one shirt.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #815 on: February 15, 2016, 08:56:20 PM »
Horribly poor 50 from England, Cole and Youngs in particular have been utter shite.

Yet Youngs was man MotM and the pundits were saying how immense Cole was.

Cole improved after I posted that but he was awful in the scrum and at the breakdown for the first 50, it was only when they started to tire that he took some control (he was also helped by Marler making the other side stable so his constant inward drive looked less illegal).  Youngs was utter shite, I don't care what the motm award says, his passing just isn't good enough, neither of the 9s should be anywhere near the squad though so I hope that changes come the summer.

The Farrell at 12 experiment is really frustrating.

Offline nigel

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #816 on: February 15, 2016, 09:54:42 PM »
Horribly poor 50 from England, Cole and Youngs in particular have been utter shite.

Yet Youngs was man MotM and the pundits were saying how immense Cole was.

Cole improved after I posted that but he was awful in the scrum and at the breakdown for the first 50, it was only when they started to tire that he took some control (he was also helped by Marler making the other side stable so his constant inward drive looked less illegal).  Youngs was utter shite, I don't care what the motm award says, his passing just isn't good enough, neither of the 9s should be anywhere near the squad though so I hope that changes come the summer.

The Farrell at 12 experiment is really frustrating.

Not disagreeing.
I was a winger/full back, so the dark arts of the front row were way above me ☺

Was talking about the Farrell experiment at 12 today, we reckon it's a stop gap until Tuilangi is fit, then he'll be back at 10

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #817 on: February 15, 2016, 10:19:03 PM »

Was talking about the Farrell experiment at 12 today, we reckon it's a stop gap until Tuilangi is fit, then he'll be back at 10

I know that Ford is off form but wouldn't Tuilagi benefit from a fly-half that stands a bit flatter and can pick his angles a bit better than Farrell?

Online PaulWinch again

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #818 on: February 15, 2016, 10:26:42 PM »
I think Slade will be the long term 12.

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #819 on: February 16, 2016, 07:03:26 AM »
I think it was Dean Ryan who said at the weekend that Slade is the best young #10 in the world, so that's three fly half's that are potentially world class (emphasis on potential). 

I'd be interested to hear people's opinions on what the backs line will be in a couple of years time.  My simple theory is that one centre should be a 'crash' centre whereas the other should be more fleet of foot (and mind) however I'm unsure what the conversion is with regards to which one is inside centre and which is outside, and how that blend in turn affects the selection of fly half.

Offline peter w

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #820 on: February 16, 2016, 04:26:41 PM »
What's happened to Wade? Wasn't he the future just a couple of years ago? If it's the one I'm thinking about - played blindingly on the last tour of Argentina.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #821 on: February 16, 2016, 06:28:35 PM »
I think it was Dean Ryan who said at the weekend that Slade is the best young #10 in the world, so that's three fly half's that are potentially world class (emphasis on potential). 

I'd be interested to hear people's opinions on what the backs line will be in a couple of years time.  My simple theory is that one centre should be a 'crash' centre whereas the other should be more fleet of foot (and mind) however I'm unsure what the conversion is with regards to which one is inside centre and which is outside, and how that blend in turn affects the selection of fly half.

I prefer a crash/breakdown 13 and then someone a bit more creative at 12.  That said they don't have to be a big 13, they have to break the line and they need to try to do some 7 style work at the breakdown. JJ is near perfect and should be the safest shirt in the backs.  At 12 I want a kicking option, but also a good passer and able to exploit space.  Devoto and Slade fit the bill.  The best thing is both can cover 10 so 1 in the team the other on the bench along with a 9 and Daly gives us good options.

Wade is still a stunning winger who will score tries at any level, I hope he gets his chance but May, Watson and Nowell haven't done anything wrong so it's a bit tough on him.  Watson is the class act on the wing though, he showed flashes of brilliance at.the weekend

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #822 on: February 17, 2016, 01:31:21 PM »
I think it was Dean Ryan who said at the weekend that Slade is the best young #10 in the world, so that's three fly half's that are potentially world class (emphasis on potential). 

I'd be interested to hear people's opinions on what the backs line will be in a couple of years time.  My simple theory is that one centre should be a 'crash' centre whereas the other should be more fleet of foot (and mind) however I'm unsure what the conversion is with regards to which one is inside centre and which is outside, and how that blend in turn affects the selection of fly half.

I prefer a crash/breakdown 13 and then someone a bit more creative at 12.  That said they don't have to be a big 13, they have to break the line and they need to try to do some 7 style work at the breakdown. JJ is near perfect and should be the safest shirt in the backs.  At 12 I want a kicking option, but also a good passer and able to exploit space.  Devoto and Slade fit the bill.  The best thing is both can cover 10 so 1 in the team the other on the bench along with a 9 and Daly gives us good options.

Wade is still a stunning winger who will score tries at any level, I hope he gets his chance but May, Watson and Nowell haven't done anything wrong so it's a bit tough on him.  Watson is the class act on the wing though, he showed flashes of brilliance at.the weekend

No mention of Tuilagi?

Offline paul_e

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #823 on: February 17, 2016, 02:26:15 PM »
I don't know where he fits, great ball carrier (probably the best tinth e country) but his passing and offloading is suspect, his discipline is poor, he has no kicking game/game management and he's barely been fit for 2-3 years.  I'd love him to really work on his passing and offloading because he could be great competition for the 13 shirt with JJ and Daly.  My real issue is that in all the time he's been involved England have been a better team when he's been missing or had less of the ball (even though when he's had lots of ball he's won games on his own) - I consider him, at this point, as a rugby equivalent of Darren Bent as of a few years ago in that his own performances tend to come at the expense of the broader team performances and the net result is a team that isn't quite the sum of it's parts.  I put this down to him being called into the England squad as a 18 year old with less than 10 games under his belt and being told he was the best thing ever, it's meant that no one has worked on the clear weaknesses in his game that were fine when he was an 18 year old rookie but now he's 24 he needs to have fixed if he wants to reach the BOD/Nonu/Mauger/etc standard that he had the potential to reach.  I think England and Tigers have a lot of responsibility for this.

All that said I honestly believe he's better suited to the backrow and I'd love to see him have a go at 6 alongside Armitage and Billy V - that would be the most brutal backrow ever assembled, won't ever happen though.

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: Six Nations 2016
« Reply #824 on: February 18, 2016, 02:02:03 PM »
I don't know where he fits, great ball carrier (probably the best tinth e country) but his passing and offloading is suspect, his discipline is poor, he has no kicking game/game management and he's barely been fit for 2-3 years.  I'd love him to really work on his passing and offloading because he could be great competition for the 13 shirt with JJ and Daly.  My real issue is that in all the time he's been involved England have been a better team when he's been missing or had less of the ball (even though when he's had lots of ball he's won games on his own) - I consider him, at this point, as a rugby equivalent of Darren Bent as of a few years ago in that his own performances tend to come at the expense of the broader team performances and the net result is a team that isn't quite the sum of it's parts.  I put this down to him being called into the England squad as a 18 year old with less than 10 games under his belt and being told he was the best thing ever, it's meant that no one has worked on the clear weaknesses in his game that were fine when he was an 18 year old rookie but now he's 24 he needs to have fixed if he wants to reach the BOD/Nonu/Mauger/etc standard that he had the potential to reach.  I think England and Tigers have a lot of responsibility for this.

All that said I honestly believe he's better suited to the backrow and I'd love to see him have a go at 6 alongside Armitage and Billy V - that would be the most brutal backrow ever assembled, won't ever happen though.

Interesting thanks.

The lack of development you described above (from debut) is one of the reason I did not mind that Daly and Itoje were not capped straight away.  We are too keen - especially in football - to select young players and herald them as the saviour that they mentally stop learning.

 


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