Ditch the Drum

[Chris Jameson]

If people have bought season tickets in or behind 'your area' I should imagine they going to be just a little pissed off with your actions.

Many people bought tickets in the area on the basis that we were moving there and we did everything we could do to publicise the fact that we were moving there.

How did you 'publicise' this? Full page ads in the programme and Birmingham Mail? I should think it's only a tiny percentage of match going supporters who religiously read any or all the independent fan sites.

Edit. That will teach me to scroll down, just seen Dave's post.

[Dave]

We didn't tell the club because they've got a history of undermining what we do as a group.

What sort of thing for example?

[bruisedshins]

We didn't tell the club because they've got a history of undermining what we do as a group.

What sort of thing for example?

Here's a few off the top of my head; banning the "One Stan Petrov" surfer. Chucking us out for standing at the Rotherham Cup game despite no ones view being blocked. Attempting to wrestle the "Your granddad didn't play for fascists, he shot them" banner from us against Sunderland. Blocking tickets in L8 so that others could not buy tickets there. Implying these seats may become available for others to purchase before the start of the 2014/15 season only for the seats to remain blocked.

[conman]

We didn't tell the club because they've got a history of undermining what we do as a group.

What sort of thing for example?

Here's a few off the top of my head; banning the "One Stan Petrov" surfer. Chucking us out for standing at the Rotherham Cup game despite no ones view being blocked. Attempting to wrestle the "Your granddad didn't play for fascists, he shot them" banner from us against Sunderland. Blocking tickets in L8 so that others could not buy tickets there. Implying these seats may become available for others to purchase before the start of the 2014/15 season only for the seats to remain blocked.

thats terrible ,,,,,,why dont the club co-operate,,,,they wanted L7 to be a singing section
they knew brigada were moving there ,,,,,,,they knew brigada like to stand and sing for 90 minutes
to get behind the team and create a good atmosphere , yet now they treat them like the enemy within
just like other villa fans do

[chrisw1]

I must admit i'm not really for picking seats where standing will block others views - back of Hotle lower seems obvious choice to me.

BUT, I cannot understand why the club can't be a bit more supportive (obviously without formally condoning standing).  It would seem if this enthusiasm could be harnessed rather than seen as something to suppress, it would be for the benefit of all.  I don't understand why they wont have a more open dialogue with the group - it shouldn't be difficult to get an understanding here.

But if nobheads stand on seats and won't move when asked to get down, well I'm all for kicking them out.  And flouncing off in protest at this didn't do you any credit.

[bruisedshins]

I must admit i'm not really for picking seats where standing will block others views - back of Hotle lower seems obvious choice to me.

BUT, I cannot understand why the club can't be a bit more supportive (obviously without formally condoning standing).  It would seem if this enthusiasm could be harnessed rather than seen as something to suppress, it would be for the benefit of all.  I don't understand why they wont have a more open dialogue with the group - it shouldn't be difficult to get an understanding here.

But if nobheads stand on seats and won't move when asked to get down, well I'm all for kicking them out.  And flouncing off in protest at this didn't do you any credit.

I agree he shouldn't have been stood on his seat and I don't think you'd find anyone in the group saying he should've been.

There are loads of examples of clubs that are taking a really forward thinking approach to "singing sections" whereby a blind eye is turned to persistent standing. The most notable i've seen this season has been at Man City where they've actually moved the away support slightly to create an area for their group. Boro gave Red Faction their own area a few years back as did Palace, more recently Cardiff City have taken a very hands off approach to persistent standing. So it can be done and the results that i've seen so far has been really impressive.

[Breezeblock]

I must admit i'm not really for picking seats where standing will block others views - back of Hotle lower seems obvious choice to me.

BUT, I cannot understand why the club can't be a bit more supportive (obviously without formally condoning standing).  It would seem if this enthusiasm could be harnessed rather than seen as something to suppress, it would be for the benefit of all.  I don't understand why they wont have a more open dialogue with the group - it shouldn't be difficult to get an understanding here.

But if nobheads stand on seats and won't move when asked to get down, well I'm all for kicking them out.  And flouncing off in protest at this didn't do you any credit.

I agree he shouldn't have been stood on his seat and I don't think you'd find anyone in the group saying he should've been.

There are loads of examples of clubs that are taking a really forward thinking approach to "singing sections" whereby a blind eye is turned to persistent standing. The most notable i've seen this season has been at Man City where they've actually moved the away support slightly to create an area for their group. Boro gave Red Faction their own area a few years back as did Palace, more recently Cardiff City have taken a very hands off approach to persistent standing. So it can be done and the results that i've seen so far has been really impressive.

I dont know how many times on this thread it's been said but I will add my voice: Your argument of "it ay fair, they're allowed to do it so we should be allowed to!" just doesn't wash.  Aston Villa are not responsible for what happens at other grounds and the numbers of police and stewards required to throw out an entire end of away fans for standing is not viable.  The only solution would be to refuse to sell tickets to away fans who persistently stand has it's own set of problems not least of which being the commercial hit.  I find it ridiculous that you persistently break the ground rules and then scream that the club is victimizing you; as far as I can see the club are being over-lenient with you by allowing you to stand throughout the matches which you did all last season.

I personally have no problem with you standing, jumping up & down, waving flags.  (I can even barely tolerate the pissing drum) Right up until the point where your antics start to impact on my enjoyment of the game. If I have bought a ticket in good faith for a seat and it happens to be behind your lot and you impede my view and enjoyment of the game then I am going to have a very BIG problem with you. as a group or as an individual.  This simple concept is what you are failing to grasp.  Instead you are again trying to blame the club with little more than circumstantial evidence.  I do believe that there are enough stewards & police at a game to forcibly eject your little band should the club decide to do so and ban you from the ground. The fact that they dont do that should be taken as a measure of their tolerance of you but you can bet your life that if the club receive enough complaints from paying fans who cant see the game because of your antics they will do this. 

[Pat McMahon]

I must admit i'm not really for picking seats where standing will block others views - back of Hotle lower seems obvious choice to me.

BUT, I cannot understand why the club can't be a bit more supportive (obviously without formally condoning standing).  It would seem if this enthusiasm could be harnessed rather than seen as something to suppress, it would be for the benefit of all.  I don't understand why they wont have a more open dialogue with the group - it shouldn't be difficult to get an understanding here.

But if nobheads stand on seats and won't move when asked to get down, well I'm all for kicking them out.  And flouncing off in protest at this didn't do you any credit.

I agree he shouldn't have been stood on his seat and I don't think you'd find anyone in the group saying he should've been.

There are loads of examples of clubs that are taking a really forward thinking approach to "singing sections" whereby a blind eye is turned to persistent standing. The most notable i've seen this season has been at Man City where they've actually moved the away support slightly to create an area for their group. Boro gave Red Faction their own area a few years back as did Palace, more recently Cardiff City have taken a very hands off approach to persistent standing. So it can be done and the results that i've seen so far has been really impressive.

Any chance of learning how these groups managed their interaction with their respective clubs to get to the point where they are allowed to operate as they do?

I mentioned above, or on the match thread, that the Holmesdale boys at Palace were standing at the bottom left of the stand so must have had seated fans behind them - or had fans who were happy to stand behind them too.

Villa Park is rarely sold out these days so surely the club can find 100-200 seats  - at the back of either Upper or Lower Holte - where you can generate atmosphere without bothering people behind you.

[amfy]

Birmingham City Council are more interventionist on this than most other councils. that's why the club can't be as hands off as in many other places. BCC have threatened to close off sections of The Holte, If Brigada had a full on standing section, especially if it became known that the club had somehow sanctioned it, that would be the bit they'd close down.

Where Brigada and the club clash is that on an unofficial level, the club need them to sit down 2-3 times in a game when asked. It doesn't matter if they pop straight back up again - the club have been seen not to condone standing. This doesn't come from the club directly, this comes from fans groups who campaign on standing and look for loopholes and compromises.

However, Brigada have a stated vow to stand throughout - this is what the club cannot work with. They are asked to sit down, they refuse, so the club end up having to throw someone out in order to show they don't condone standing, and then the whole lot walk out & relations continue on a downward spiral.

[dave.woodhall]

Birmingham City Council are more interventionist on this than most other councils. that's why the club can't be as hands off as in many other places. BCC have threatened to close off sections of The Holte, If Brigada had a full on standing section, especially if it became known that the club had somehow sanctioned it, that would be the bit they'd close down.

Where Brigada and the club clash is that on an unofficial level, the club need them to sit down 2-3 times in a game when asked. It doesn't matter if they pop straight back up again - the club have been seen not to condone standing. This doesn't come from the club directly, this comes from fans groups who campaign on standing and look for loopholes and compromises.

However, Brigada have a stated vow to stand throughout - this is what the club cannot work with. They are asked to sit down, they refuse, so the club end up having to throw someone out in order to show they don't condone standing, and then the whole lot walk out & relations continue on a downward spiral.

There's no place for such sense on here.

[Chris Jameson]

 ,,,,,, ,,,,,, ,,,,,,,

,

[UK Redsox]

Commaman

[Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle]

Comma Chameleon,,,,

[PeterWithe]

Birmingham City Council are more interventionist on this than most other councils. that's why the club can't be as hands off as in many other places. BCC have threatened to close off sections of The Holte, If Brigada had a full on standing section, especially if it became known that the club had somehow sanctioned it, that would be the bit they'd close down.

Where Brigada and the club clash is that on an unofficial level, the club need them to sit down 2-3 times in a game when asked. It doesn't matter if they pop straight back up again - the club have been seen not to condone standing. This doesn't come from the club directly, this comes from fans groups who campaign on standing and look for loopholes and compromises.

However, Brigada have a stated vow to stand throughout - this is what the club cannot work with. They are asked to sit down, they refuse, so the club end up having to throw someone out in order to show they don't condone standing, and then the whole lot walk out & relations continue on a downward spiral.

Thats an interesting post. It would seem this impasse is pretty easily remedied then isn't it?

Have the flag lads been in touch with any of the existing Villa supporters groups such as AVST etc? Surely someone can act as a mediator in this.

[Leighton]

Organised fun. I can't stand it.