The Cricket Thread 2016

[PaulWinch again]

In fairness to the 'proper spinner' bit, Moeen bowled excellently and I think most would have struggled against him bowling like that.

The problem he has is that he struggles to hold an end up and keep things tight on pitches that don't suit him. He may get there but we need someone we can rely on to give the seamers a break on good batting wickets.

I agree that he needs to work on his ability to hold an end when conditions are against him, but to say SA struggled against England, who were 'without a proper spinner', is a bit harsh. He bowled as well as any spinner would have on that pitch, and when conditions are in his favour he can be very good.

[paul_e]

In fairness to the 'proper spinner' bit, Moeen bowled excellently and I think most would have struggled against him bowling like that.

The problem he has is that he struggles to hold an end up and keep things tight on pitches that don't suit him. He may get there but we need someone we can rely on to give the seamers a break on good batting wickets.

That will come with time and because we have him, Stokes and Broad who are all decent with the bat we can have 4 seamers so the need to rest them is less of an issue anyway.  Right now I want a spinner who can be trusted to take wickets and in general Moeen is delivering on that front.

[Whiney MacWhineface]

Their India series blew their batting confidence away, and we're benefitting. That series was a bit of a joke - I thnk it was the Delhi test where the Indians only picked one seamer, the ball exploded out of a good length on the first morning, and the biggest difference between the two sides was that the SA spinners (Harmer, Elgar, Duminy and Piedt) bowled enough bad deliveries (they still took wickets mind) to allow India to post faintly decent totals and the Indian spinners were first rate.

[Dave Cooper please]

In fairness to the 'proper spinner' bit, Moeen bowled excellently and I think most would have struggled against him bowling like that.

The problem he has is that he struggles to hold an end up and keep things tight on pitches that don't suit him. He may get there but we need someone we can rely on to give the seamers a break on good batting wickets.

I agree that he needs to work on his ability to hold an end when conditions are against him, but to say SA struggled against England, who were 'without a proper spinner', is a bit harsh. He bowled as well as any spinner would have on that pitch, and when conditions are in his favour he can be very good.

I'm old school, I want my spinners to be able to bowl 20 overs on the...err...spin and not only take the odd wicket but also go for less than 2 an over. Any decent spinner can take wickets when the pitch is favourable, the best spinners do it when they aren't.

[paul_e]

In fairness to the 'proper spinner' bit, Moeen bowled excellently and I think most would have struggled against him bowling like that.

The problem he has is that he struggles to hold an end up and keep things tight on pitches that don't suit him. He may get there but we need someone we can rely on to give the seamers a break on good batting wickets.

I agree that he needs to work on his ability to hold an end when conditions are against him, but to say SA struggled against England, who were 'without a proper spinner', is a bit harsh. He bowled as well as any spinner would have on that pitch, and when conditions are in his favour he can be very good.

I'm old school, I want my spinners to be able to bowl 20 overs on the...err...spin and not only take the odd wicket but also go for less than 2 an over. Any decent spinner can take wickets when the pitch is favourable, the best spinners do it when they aren't.

but that is old school and importantly, is out of date.  There are very few spinners who can do that any more because batsmen are more willing to 'go after' the spinner on a flat pitch.

For example, if you go on cricinfo and search for spinners who've played in the last 10 years (and bowled a reasonable amount of overs, part-timers skew the figures) there are 5 in the whole world with a career average under 2.5 - the average scoring rate in test cricket is now close to 4 in general, that change will be reflected in all bowlers figures, spinners will never be any different.

He's had a few bad matches (he was awful in the caribbean but wasn't really fit and shouldn't have toured) but he's also had a few very good matches which is, in my opinion, all you can really ask for at this stage.  If he's still got the same flaws after next winter then it might an indication that he's never going to be the controlling bowler we want/need but whilst Anderson and Broad are around and controlling the scoring rate we can afford to let him develop so long as he is contributing.

[tomd2103]

In fairness to the 'proper spinner' bit, Moeen bowled excellently and I think most would have struggled against him bowling like that.

The problem he has is that he struggles to hold an end up and keep things tight on pitches that don't suit him. He may get there but we need someone we can rely on to give the seamers a break on good batting wickets.

I agree that he needs to work on his ability to hold an end when conditions are against him, but to say SA struggled against England, who were 'without a proper spinner', is a bit harsh. He bowled as well as any spinner would have on that pitch, and when conditions are in his favour he can be very good.

I'm old school, I want my spinners to be able to bowl 20 overs on the...err...spin and not only take the odd wicket but also go for less than 2 an over. Any decent spinner can take wickets when the pitch is favourable, the best spinners do it when they aren't.

but that is old school and importantly, is out of date.  There are very few spinners who can do that any more because batsmen are more willing to 'go after' the spinner on a flat pitch.

For example, if you go on cricinfo and search for spinners who've played in the last 10 years (and bowled a reasonable amount of overs, part-timers skew the figures) there are 5 in the whole world with a career average under 2.5 - the average scoring rate in test cricket is now close to 4 in general, that change will be reflected in all bowlers figures, spinners will never be any different.

He's had a few bad matches (he was awful in the caribbean but wasn't really fit and shouldn't have toured) but he's also had a few very good matches which is, in my opinion, all you can really ask for at this stage.  If he's still got the same flaws after next winter then it might an indication that he's never going to be the controlling bowler we want/need but whilst Anderson and Broad are around and controlling the scoring rate we can afford to let him develop so long as he is contributing.

He's cemented his place in the side going forward now.  His biggest and only real competitor for the test spit, Rashid, had a chance and didn't really take it.  Hopefully the knowledge that he is now number one will give him the confidence to push on.  Let's not forget, he is still fairly inexperienced as a front line bowler at all levels of the game nevermind internationals.

[PaulWinch again]

I like Moeen as an all round cricketer as well he has a great attitude. He's taken lots of wickets, is a brilliant batsman to have coming in at 8 and is just generally a great addition to the side.

[OzVilla]

Modern day batting means that they go after the spinner almost immediately primarily so the opposing skipper cannot rotate the seamers. That means spinners go for more runs but also have more opportunities as batsmen are also more prone to throw their wickets away.

To put this into context, statistically Nathan Lyon is Australia's most successful off spinner ever. I think Moen is doing a great job and ,like Lyon, is quite underrated.

[Villan For Life]

I think Mo is improving as a bowler, he has the misfortune to be playing in the post Warne era. Just as all keepers are now expected to be like Gilchrist, all spinners are now expected to be Warne-like.

Our conditions and the summer schedule don't favour spinners and this was debated on here during the series in the UAE. Mo is the best that we have at the moment.

[PaulWinch again]

Shame we lost Cookie but solid start other than that.

[paul_e]

Compton really needs to learn how to score runs when he's being pinned down.

[paul_e]

Compton really needs to learn how to score runs when he's being pinned down.

This is better, not just defending to piedt. We really want them to panic and over bowl morkel so we need to attack the others. On this pitch we should after well over 300 today.

[tomd2103]

Very good start at 117-1.  Very jealous of those who are out in Cape Town watching it, as it looks fantastic there.

[PaulWinch again]

Excellent platform.

[tomd2103]

South African fielding has been very sloppy so far in the series.  Hales and Compton were getting a bit bogged down, so Root coming to the crease might work out well.