Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Off Topic => Sports Arena => Topic started by: olaftab on January 03, 2015, 05:59:41 PM
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Congratulations to Kumar Sangakkara for quickest to 12000 test runs. A superbly entertaining batsman.
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He is. That is quite an achievement.
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A quality player.
On another topic I hope this is the year when Taylor comes to prominence, and Cook and Finn get back to their best.
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Sangakarra's innings was a pure gem. 200 on a pitch no other batsman got properly to grips with, against a couple of quality seamers in Boult and Southee.
Kumar has never really had the recognition he deserves in comparison to players like Tendulkar, Lara and Ponting
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Easily one of the best batsmen of any era, and showing no signs of slowing down. Considering England have little chance of winning the WC, the romantic in me would want Sri Lanka to do it, considering they've been runners up last two occasions, as well as twice in World T20 with Sangakkara and Jayawardene there.
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In fact, averages just under 70 (69.85) when not keeping, which is almost Bradman-esque
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Was a gem of a innings by Kumar as stated earlier.
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Stokes started the Big Bash very well. Hopefully he'll rediscover his form this year, because I think he's potentially a great player.
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All the players I've heard talk about Cook since his sacking as ODI captain have basically implied it was the right decision due to form. That's quite unusual really.
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See KP is off moaning again. I liked him as a player but I'm getting bored now.
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Commentary on tonight's match five live sports extra @ 22.45.
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Sounded pretty good from England.
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Jonathan Trott has hit his first century in international cricket since leaving the 2013-2014 Ashes series with a "stress-related illness".
Trott, 33, was unbeaten on 176 at stumps on the third day against South Africa A in Paarl.
It continued the skipper's good form after he hit 79 from 127 balls in the opening tour match.
The batsman's century took the Lions to 507-6 in response to South Africa's first innings 504-8 declared.
James Vince and Adil Rashid both hit 78 as the Lions recovered well from being reduced to 67-3.
The four-day match is the first unofficial Test of England Lions' tour.
Trott's last three-figure score for England was an unbeaten 109 against New Zealand in a one-day international in June 2013.
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Trott can't be far from a recall.
I see Petersen got some press with some comments he made. It sounds like he's come into some form again and he thinks he has a few years left in him. If that's true, its a sad waste of one of the best talents we've had play for us.
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Trott may well open as the rest of the batting is settled
ie Trott, Cook, Balance, Root, Bell, Buttler, etc
as for KP no no and no if he was that concerned about playing for England he should have played a full season for Surrey last season instead of running all over the place playing T-2O, if he had scored loads of runs he may have got his place back as England were struggling and he hasn't scored loads of runs in the Big Bash anyway
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Playing a one day friendly against a Prime Ministers XI today. 327-3 off 44 with Bell 156 off 128.
One observation, why can't we hit sixes? Thirty-five fours and only one six!
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We must have gone berserk.......five sixes in last 6 overs.
391-6 off 50 with Bell out at the death for 187 off 145.
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That's some knock from Bell and the top 3 as a unit did very well again.
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Glenn Maxwell is doing some serious damage.
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We won by 60 runs.
A good run out with several of the batsmen getting a decent knock & Broad getting a 4-fer. Jordan was expensive though.
For England Lions, Trott got 211 not out.
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An unusual catch by Woakes
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NqUmL7afvrc
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We won by 60 runs.
A good run out with several of the batsmen getting a decent knock & Broad getting a 4-fer. Jordan was expensive though.
For England Lions, Trott got 211 not out.
The fact they got over 300 is a bit of a concern really. I suppose Jimmy Anderson has still got to come back, so that should boost our attack. Heard Dominic Cork say on the radio this morning that he would like to see Finn come in possibly in place of Tredwell when we get on the faster tracks, with Root and Moeen sharing the spinning duties.
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Finn needs to get back to actually bowling fast, he isn't close to his best again yet. I'd guess it was a pretty flat deck looking at the scores.
The A tour is bringing up some interesting options for who opens with Cook. Lyth, Robson, Lees and Trott have all scored big runs.
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We won by 60 runs.
A good run out with several of the batsmen getting a decent knock & Broad getting a 4-fer. Jordan was expensive though.
For England Lions, Trott got 211 not out.
The fact they got over 300 is a bit of a concern really. I suppose Jimmy Anderson has still got to come back, so that should boost our attack. Heard Dominic Cork say on the radio this morning that he would like to see Finn come in possibly in place of Tredwell when we get on the faster tracks, with Root and Moeen sharing the spinning duties.
I'd keep Tredwell in the side. Slower bowlers are harder to score off in limited overs cricket.
We've packed our side with traditional English seamers in the past and we've got nowhere.
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Finn needs to get back to actually bowling fast, he isn't close to his best again yet. I'd guess it was a pretty flat deck looking at the scores.
The A tour is bringing up some interesting options for who opens with Cook. Lyth, Robson, Lees and Trott have all scored big runs.
A part of me wants Trotty to have a full summer at Edgbaston with Warwickshire, as I worry what being thrown back into the international spotlight could do to him. Again, listening to Dominic Cork this morning he was saying that the word is that they could well go with Lees in the next test series.
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We won by 60 runs.
A good run out with several of the batsmen getting a decent knock & Broad getting a 4-fer. Jordan was expensive though.
For England Lions, Trott got 211 not out.
The fact they got over 300 is a bit of a concern really. I suppose Jimmy Anderson has still got to come back, so that should boost our attack. Heard Dominic Cork say on the radio this morning that he would like to see Finn come in possibly in place of Tredwell when we get on the faster tracks, with Root and Moeen sharing the spinning duties.
I'm not concerned, we'd set them a truly ridiculous target that they were only going to stand a chance at if they came out swinging and in T20 mode for the entire innings and only a very good innings from one of the top T20 batsmen in the world got them even close to making a game of it. Short form cricket is all about scoreboard pressure and we did a great job of creating that. I hope they take some confidence from it and try to do the same any time they open the innings.
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Well another fabulous start to a ODI from our boys.
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Today was an example of what can happen if you start aggressively and bowl accurate and fast. Anything that happened after the 3rd ball was all about pressure, the deliveries for Bell and Taylor were fantastic. On top of that the pitch looks like a 240-250 par to me so I'm not sure we're that far off the pace.
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It was a brilliant knock from Morgan and at least him coming back to form is a major plus. However the rest was pretty shambolic and we need to take wickets.
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Too many 4 balls from every bowler. largely except Woakes.
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Jordan really needs to sort out his accuracy. The Aussies are going to walk this at the moment.
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That's why I'm loathe to have him in the team. He's always expensive which you can ill afford in the shorter form of the game. Although conversely it would probably be better for England to play him in the 20/20 where slogging is the norm and bowlers are expensive as he does tend to chip in with a wcket or two.
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But got an important wicket there, which is what he tends to do. We lack wicket takers, so that's why he's playing. Smith, in the form he's in, is a worry.
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I really think we should have slips in here, we're not going to win this unless we bowl them out.
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This is going to be an absolute hammering at this rate.
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The quality of the performance aside, it was nice to listen to cricket on my way into work this morning.
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Quality from Morgan and pretty good from Woakes. Pretty poor elsewhere. The 3 wicket margin makes it sound closer than it was, due to the bonus point. We need to get a lot better.
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I still think 240-250 was par on that wicket, some very loose deliveries to Warner (certainly in the first 10-12 overs which is all I watched) meant they had regular runs to ease any pressure.
This was a match that showed the naivety of the team, someone like Warner wants to feel bat on ball and watch it go flying off, so bowl slightly across him, pitching just in line with leg and then 'hitting' the top few inches of off. Just get it nice and consistent and make him create his own space, then once he's moving start altering the pace but keeping the same line. On a pitch that's got swing, seam and unpredictable bounce it will do the work for you but certainly Jordan and Finn seemed to want to be in control of the variation so they were trying too hard and bowling too far off that line so he knew he could defend the good ones and go after the stuff that gave him space.
Woakes bowled much better than the rest, the delivery that got Finch was an absolute beauty for someone who's trying to hit you out the ground, it tempted Finch to slash at it which brings the bounce into play and that completely did him.
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Same old England,carrying on from where left off.
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I actually worry more about our bowling than our batting. Ok the batting failed today, but there's a lot of potential there and Morgan getting back to his best is great news. The bowling though is a bit samey, we have a selection of pace bowlers who do more a less the same thing. When Anderson comes in it adds swing and Broad clearly isn't up to speed yet. But I worry about Finn, because unless he can get his pace back up or become a lot more accurate he's not worth his place. Jordan needs to stop giving away so many four balls. We lack variety badly.
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I actually worry more about our bowling than our batting. Ok the batting failed today, but there's a lot of potential there and Morgan getting back to his best is great news. The bowling though is a bit samey, we have a selection of pace bowlers who do more a less the same thing. When Anderson comes in it adds swing and Broad clearly isn't up to speed yet. But I worry about Finn, because unless he can get his pace back up or become a lot more accurate he's not worth his place. Jordan needs to stop giving away so many four balls. We lack variety badly.
That's a coaching problem though, we just don't produce players with much variety because fast bowlers are all pigeon-holed as bang it in or swing and get coached based on the pot they get added to. That England are trying to convert Jordan to a bang it in bowler says everything for me.
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Jordan runs up like a kid pretending to ride a horse. He lollops, and that can't be good for the rhythm needed for consistency.
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I think that's a result of bad back injuries.
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Dagnall interviewed Brett Lee during the interval of yesterday's game.
Lee was one of my favourite Aussie players and he spoke at length about 2005 and that moment with Flintoff at Edgbaston.
It's well worth a listen and is available as a podcast on the BBC TMS website.
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What's David Warner been up to?
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What's David Warner been up to?
Abusing opposition players from backward point as usual. Aparently told Rohit Sharma to "speak English". Gets involved in everything.
Fantastic player, absolute arsehole on the field though. Shane Watson is the same but he's just an arsehole.
Theyve got right upset at Agnew calling them out for sledging after their "well honour Hughesey" speeches. It's been happening every game.
Horrible side.
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SA pounding the hell out of the Windies. 439-2
de Villiers' 100 coming in just 31 balls.
Rubbish bowling, awesome batting.
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What's David Warner been up to?
Abusing opposition players from backward point as usual. Aparently told Rohit Sharma to "speak English". Gets involved in everything.
Fantastic player, absolute arsehole on the field though. Shane Watson is the same but he's just an arsehole.
Theyve got right upset at Agnew calling them out for sledging after their "well honour Hughesey" speeches. It's been happening every game.
Horrible side.
While I'm similarly completely unimpressed with the way in which the team appears to carry itself on the field (and some of the ludicrous statements that have been offered as a defence for such behaviour), I reckon Agnew's out of line to bring the Hughes thing into that debate. There's just no way anyone is in a position to make a comment on the supposedly "correct" way to react to such a thing.
The fact that this is even a talking point is very disappointing, because one would have to say that us Australians have got a fair bit to be optimistic about right now when it comes to the actual cricket, with two top-class batsmen and strength in depth in the fast bowling ranks.
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The colour of the Saffers kit is erm unusual.
EDIT: the pink stumps and the number of supporters in the stand in pink suggests that it's being worn for charity. A quick google search confirms that it's in aid of breast cancer.
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What's David Warner been up to?
Abusing opposition players from backward point as usual. Aparently told Rohit Sharma to "speak English". Gets involved in everything.
Fantastic player, absolute arsehole on the field though. Shane Watson is the same but he's just an arsehole.
Theyve got right upset at Agnew calling them out for sledging after their "well honour Hughesey" speeches. It's been happening every game.
Horrible side.
While I'm similarly completely unimpressed with the way in which the team appears to carry itself on the field (and some of the ludicrous statements that have been offered as a defence for such behaviour), I reckon Agnew's out of line to bring the Hughes thing into that debate. There's just no way anyone is in a position to make a comment on the supposedly "correct" way to react to such a thing.
The fact that this is even a talking point is very disappointing, because one would have to say that us Australians have got a fair bit to be optimistic about right now when it comes to the actual cricket, with two top-class batsmen and strength in depth in the fast bowling ranks.
I do think Agnew has been misinterpreted somewhat with his comments. To me he seemed to be saying that after the tragedy with Phil Hughes everyone involved in cricket, not just the Aussies, was saying that on field behaviour would become more respectful, with less of the 'knock his fucking block off' or 'prepare for a broken arm' stuff which seems to have become prevalent over the last few years. He also said that the Aussies didn't seem to be practicing this in the series against India, with a few incidents getting out of control on the field.
In my opinion, he's right, a lot of players these days are far too aggressive in their on field behaviour, and where sledging was once a way of getting inside a batsman or bowlers head with a small word or a witty remark, a lot of players don't conduct themselves in the way the game should played.
I think it's just a matter of coincidence that it's Australia - India, one of the more fiery series, that took place straight after Hughes' death that meant that this has been in the spotlight more than was maybe expected.
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This must have been a bad dream which never happened.
'Get ready for a broken fucken arm': how Michael Clarke got ruthless (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/25/michael-clarke-captaincy-sledging-james-anderson)
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Great performance from the England Bowlers, especially Finn & Anderson. Surely England will win this one.
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Finn bowled really well, although still worryingly down on pace.
Anderson however, proved what a world class act he still is.
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Stunning performance by England. It's really what we needed to get some confidence before the World Cup. Finn getting wickets is huge, because I'm convinced his pace is down because of confidence. I think he's holding back, because he doesn't want to get hit. Hopefully if his confidence grows he'll be able to get back to bowling quick.
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Great result, hopefully we can build on it and get a win over the aussies which would be a great confidence boost.
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Good performance by England.
It's good to see Finn bowling so well in Oz. A year ago he left the Ashes tour and was unpickable. A fine return to form.
There were a couple of great catches at the end of the Indian innings by Morgan and Ali followed by sensible batting by Bell and Taylor.
Hopefully this win will give us a platform to build for a good World Cup. We seem to be in the easier side of the draw.
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Very good all round performance and a win at a very good scoring rate, without ever looking like we were trying to score too quickly. Very controlled batting performance.
It will be interesting to see how England perform in Tasmania on Friday against Australia.
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Well done all, praise also to Ian Bell, who moves within 5 runs 5000 and becoming only the second English player ever to reach that landmark in ODI's
He is now only 98 short of being our highest run scorer
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Very good all round performance and a win at a very good scoring rate, without ever looking like we were trying to score too quickly. Very controlled batting performance.
It will be interesting to see how England perform in Tasmania on Friday against Australia.
Yep. I know it sounds a bit obvious, but I'd back us to win most games comfortably when chasing a moderate total, as our top order can go out and play at their own pace (Trott was a master at it). It's when the onus is on us to go out and set the pace and post a big total that we struggle.
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just watched a repeat of the ABdeV innings on Sky. Shame that he didn't get one more run. he'd have beaten the 150 record by close to 40 balls.
however, as was said earlier, rubbish bowling.
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Brilliant from Bell and for the first 40 overs in general. Absolutely shocking last 10 overs particularly from Bopara. Really poor and they need to work on that. Still 300 scored, let's hope it's enough.
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Bopara's innings was that bad that his place should be under threat now. Absolutely terrible from all perspectives.
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I think we're 50 runs short but I must say the Aussies bowled well in the last 10 overs.
It will be interesting to see if we can defend 303.
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Poor start from Woakes.
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Hmm our score looks light here.
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Moeen you little beauty.
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Finn might just be back, super bowling. Pace is up there as well.
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Terrific bowling from Finn. Might have knocked the game on its bonce, there.
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At the moment it looks like those last 10 overs are going to kill us.
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Very frustrating defeat. Bell was excellent, as were Finn and Ali. However our last 10 overs were terrible and Bopara was woeful. We should have scored at least 330.
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Can't really think of a batsman who's had an Australian summer like Steve Smith has had (maybe Alastair Cook in 2010-11? But even he didn't carry it over the ODIs, I don't think), even though he's spent a lot of it facing a rubbish Indian attack. Really brilliant performance again.
I guess we Australians shouldn't have that much to complain about, but I suppose if there is room to quibble, there'd be concern about our middle order batting (Watson/Maxwell/Bailey all in dodgy form) and the fact that our young quicks by their nature are inconsistent and could get seriously dinged if they get it wrong later on in the tournament.
Seems like England's been quite decent so far though. The batting lineup you lot have put out looks pretty good on paper; the bowling looks a bit predictable though.
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Yeah I think England look competitive and they be pleased to have posted over 300 on admittedly what was a pretty flat track. I worry about Bopara was I think he's very useful on a certain type of pitch, the slow stick in the wicket kind, but I can't imagine he'll see many of those at the WC.
I really like the look of the Aussies, good strength in depth and home advantage. Despite the Safas I think they'll be the team to beat. Strong throughout.
Happy Australia Day to all our Aussie Villains.
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Been watching a bit of the 'Big Bash' and it seems to have been a real success this year with big attendances. I think the time is fast approaching when we need to revisit 20/20 in this country.
I'd leave the 4 day and 50 over tournaments as county affairs and introduce a new city franchise 20/20 tournament based at the international grounds. By my reckoning, you'd have Birmingham, Southampton, 2 x London, Cardiff, Manchester, Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle (Durham). You would also probably need one in the South West. so would go for maybe Bristol. If it was scheduled correctly, it could be the way to go.
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Been watching a bit of the 'Big Bash' and it seems to have been a real success this year with big attendances. I think the time is fast approaching when we need to revisit 20/20 in this country.
I'd leave the 4 day and 50 over tournaments as county affairs and introduce a new city franchise 20/20 tournament based at the international grounds. By my reckoning, you'd have Birmingham, Southampton, 2 x London, Cardiff, Manchester, Nottingham, Leeds and Newcastle (Durham). You would also probably need one in the South West. so would go for maybe Bristol. If it was scheduled correctly, it could be the way to go.
The problem with that is that many counties would not be able to survive in that format.
Clubs such as Worcestershire, Northampton, Derbyshire, Leicestershire are totally reliant on revenue from T20 sales. I couldn't see many more people attending, and test ground counties would be unwilling to share revenue with the smaller counties.
Australia was in a completely different position when the BB was introduced. They have 6 state sides, whereas we have 18 counties.
From a personal viewpoint, I'm also quite pleased that we haven't adopted the same approach as India or Australia have to the format.
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Suffice it say that Stuart Broad is not my favourite person at the moment.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jan/27/stuart-broad-minimum-wage-england-humble
What an absolute bellend.
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Suffice it say that Stuart Broad is not my favourite person at the moment.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jan/27/stuart-broad-minimum-wage-england-humble
What an absolute bellend.
Not at all surprised, based on a lot of things I have heard before.
Can you imagine a Warwickshire player coming out with tosh like this? Don't think so. We have a clue.
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ITV to show highlights of the world cup.
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Suffice it say that Stuart Broad is not my favourite person at the moment.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jan/27/stuart-broad-minimum-wage-england-humble
What an absolute bellend.
I saw that Tweet and just took it as him being amazed by such a statistic, but I can see how it could be interpreted with the hashtags.
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Yorkshire have signed Aaron Finch for all cricket next season and Glenn Maxwell will play in the hit and run.
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In fairness, many top sports people live in a bubble world of their own.
When Moeen Ali was told off about wearing pro-Palestine wristbands, a journo asked Belly what his thoughts were on the Gaza situation.
His reply: "Who's Gaza?"
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Am I the only one who is outraged by the fact that there seems to be outrage about Broad's tweet?
Absolute storm in a teacup. Nonsense
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Nearly an amazing end to Brett Lee's career. The Big Bash final went down to the last ball, one run to win, Lee on a hat-trick. Arafat ran for a hopeless single, but the fielder at the stumps (the captain) fumbled it.
Gutted for him. Real respect for the guy.
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Nearly an amazing end to Brett Lee's career. The Big Bash final went down to the last ball, one run to win, Lee on a hat-trick. Arafat ran for a hopeless single, but the fielder at the stumps (the captain) fumbled it.
Gutted for him. Real respect for the guy.
I've just finished watching that. What a last over. Brett Lee is one of my fave players ever.
Imagine, your last 3 balls in cricket and you take wickets with 2 of them and nearly conjure a run out from the last. You couldn't make it up.
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Overall very good, but poor last few overs there. We can't switch off like that.
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Overall very good, but poor last few overs there. We can't switch off like that.
I was really disappointed with the first dozen or so overs, should have made some early breakthrough's with the new ball, Woakes bowled too short in his first spell but came back well when he swapped ends
his 9th over was one to forget though. Finn superb again. Having said that though i'd have taken 200 all out at the start.
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Finn really is getting back to his best, which is a huge relief. We're struggling with the bat here though, it looks tough.
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Hmmm this might be tricky.
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Stupid shot by Root.
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Our terrible bowling in the last few overs could come back to haunt us here.
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What a mad ball the spinner, trned out to be a bouncer
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Good to see Brad Hogg knows nothing about English cricket, he reckons Taylor is just a nudger. Morgan out, this is going very wrong very quick. Terrible batting.
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It's a brute of a pitch. The bounce at the one end is far too variable. The balls that got Dhoni and Bell were maddening.
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It might be, but our shot selection is atrocious and we're not going to make the final at this rate.
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That was just another really poor shot by Bopara
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I'd drop Bopara now, he's been useless in this series. Get Ballance in. Well we're not getting to the final now, a truly woeful batting display thus far.
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Thus far this innings has been completely brainless and it's a follow on from our last four overs bowling.
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"This might not be too bad a game to lose. My theory is this is not the best Waca wicket, certainly if you have to play on the same pitch again on Sunday. Would you fancy facing Mitchell Johnson on this?"
That's the spirit Dagnall, we shouldn't want to get to a final because it might be a bit scary playing Mitchell Johnson. Shocking statement.
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Taylor and Buttler have done a fantastic job here, after some issues were highlighted with our opening and death bowling and a shambolic start to the reply.
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Bloody hell Taylor and Buttler gone.
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There were some really stupid wickets lost from the likes of Root, Bopara and Morgan. The sensible batting by Taylor and Buttler showed a level of maturity that has been missing in our one day batting for a long time.
It got a little nervy at the end but we saw them through. A good win.
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A relief of a win that. It's always good to build from a position of strength and there a number of questions that need to be addressed. The opening and death bowling needs to be a lot better. We can't afford to switch off and give away 20-30 runs for the last wicket. The top order need to engage their brains when batting, because that was shocking. If Bopara isn't going to bowl, I'm not sure he warrants a place in the side. Brilliant from Taylor and Buttler though.
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Great start from England 3 early wickets but desperately need to get Smith 55-3 16 overs, great start from Jimmy getting Finch 3rd ball of innings,
currently 2-11 off 6, Woakes 0-29 from 4 but had misfortune to have to bowl to Smith virtually throughout his spell.
Broad getting 3rd wicket Bailey fending a ball to Taylor at short leg.....get Smith please!!!!
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Ali into attack and immediately gets Smith stumped at the 2nd attempt by Buttler...60-4 17.3
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half way 103-4
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35 gone 146-4 Maxwell 64, Marsh 26 batting powerplay starting - Woakes back into attack 0-36 off his 6 so far
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Make that 0-42 6.3 overs Marsh puts him out the ground!!!
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201-5 Maxwell Ct Buttler b Broad 95
now Ali in his last over - Marsh gets his 50, Ali finishes with 1 - 39, 204-5 42 overs
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221-6 44 overs Marsh run out 60
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224-7 Haddin Ct Taylor b Broad 45 overs
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That's crap, crap bowling from Woakes. I know he's a Villa fan but I just don't rate him at all.
Him and Bopara are the weak links in this side.
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Just a bad day for Woakes. He has developed as a player in the last 12 months and added a few yards of pace. That said he has just produced the 4th worst one day analysis in England history which can't be good.
Bopara though is woefully out of form.
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Bell ct Haddin b Hazelwood 8
22-1 4.3 overs
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Woakes had a bit of a shocker.
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Hmmm struggling here.
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Good to see we've learnt how to deal with Johnson. Other than that first hundred Morgan has had a shocker.
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Very poor performance all around, we batted poorly and at times our bowling was shambolic.
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Terrible display.
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So I've mates taking the piss out if the Villa on Facebook and I get into the office and all the Aussies are lining up to give me stick about Woakes and Bopara.
I hate sport sometimes.
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Good to see Stokes is getting his mojo back. He scored 151 not out off 86 balls and took 4-22 against South Africa A. It's a decent South Africa A side as well.
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Good performance with the ball in the warm up match against the Windies. Quite a comeback by Woakes with 5-19 off 7.3.
With the Windies all out for 122 it's not providing much practice for the batsmen.
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I was going to say for a practice match it's a bit annoying really, but I guess still a confidence boost to give a side a hammering.
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Morgan's lack of form is a big worry.
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That result should be a timely reminder that scores of 250 generally aren't enough.
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Morgan's lack of form is a big worry.
Well it kind of is but I'm still happier with him in as captain than Cook. The problem with Cook was that he was setting the tone at the top of the order that led to us struggling for any momentum. With Morgan being in the middle order momentum is hopefully already been set before he comes in. It would preferable to be getting runs but at least his failures doesn't set the tone for the team every game.
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Morgan's lack of form is a big worry.
Well it kind of is but I'm still happier with him in as captain than Cook. The problem with Cook was that he was setting the tone at the top of the order that led to us struggling for any momentum. With Morgan being in the middle order momentum is hopefully already been set before he comes in. It would preferable to be getting runs but at least his failures doesn't set the tone for the team every game.
There's also the flexibility to move him around the batting order.
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Oh I agree, I'm happy with him as captain but it would be nice if he could start getting some runs.
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Oh I agree, I'm happy with him as captain but it would be nice if he could start getting some runs.
Particularly as Bopara is so out of form.
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The World Cup starts in a few hours. We seem to have a decent draw and think we could scrape a semi final place. We need some big performances and all players need to contribute.
I don't think we will win it and predict a Crims v Saffers final with the Saffers winning it.
India will struggle and the Windies and Pakistan are good 50 over teams. My dark horse bet is the Kiwis, they are a good side and should do well.
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WC off and running Sri Lanka won the toss in the first match and inderted New Zealand and looking rather ominous currently
for SL, NZ 44-0 off 6.3 overs, no real movement currently for bowlers in cold overcast conditions.
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10 overs NZ 77-0
Incidentally Malinga 0-42 off 4 overs
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Put the cricket on Long Wave BBC you bastards.
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If England can't win the World Cup I hope NZ do.
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Decided to stay up to watch the first few overs. Yet again we enter a major tournament and decide it is the right time to try something different with Ballance coming in.
I maybe wrong, but the decision to bowl first after winning the toss just seemed a bit of a negative one really and I fear for us a bit as that Australian batting line up looks really strong, even without Clarke.
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93-3 after 16 overs. Started poorly but turned it round with some good bowling from Broad.
Another one now and England are well in the hunt. Fielding is a concern though.
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FFS when will we learn to bowl at the death? Far too many runs conceded off the last 10 overs.
An unusual hat trick from Finn in the last over but we threw it away with some aŵful bowling.
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Our death bowling is fucking atrocious.
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Extremely shit death bowling by England really. Good batting obviously but back of a length stuff is pretty much the easiest to hit on Australia pitches.
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We really need to look at the last 10 overs because it simply isn't good enough.
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Well assuming we lose this NZ is going to be a very tough second game.
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Bad choice Moeen. So Taylor has been doing very well at 3 and for the first World Cup game we drop him down to 6, good decision.
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It is a good call.
Get a proper no3 in there in Ballance and play Taylor at 6 for Bopara. No problem with that.
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Doesn't look like a good call to me. Ballance had had hardly any cricket and Taylor was doing well at 3. Now we're really staring down the barrel.
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Rather have Taylor down the order than Bopara.
Ballance plays every time at 3, he's more than earned that right.
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Bell gone. This could be a big, big defeat coming up.
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He hasn't earned that right in ODIs and he's completely undercooked. We're in for an absolute hammering here.
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2 in 2.....
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Root gone, fucking pathetic.
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Getting bowled out by Mitchell Marsh is unforgivable.
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Well Ballance averages over 50 in first class cricket and 60 in Tests. When Taylor is in that league come back to me.
Ballance is the long term no3 and that's where he should bat when he plays IMO. The selectors seem to feel the same.
Anyway, let's see what Sachin Taylor can do.
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I really don't understand why yet again we've gone into a major tournament without a settled side. Bopara has been out of form for a while yet they played him all through the tr-series tournament.
Surely there comes a point when you think he's not cutting it so give his replacement Ballance some valuable game time?
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To be fair Ballance has had a thumb injury so could only play one warm up game where he got that 50.
It is a lot like the Villa though, we seem to find a way to look incompetent at times despite having all the best intentions. We are miles and miles behind this Australian team. Bit like when we play Chelsea etc.
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I really don't understand why yet again we've gone into a major tournament without a settled side. Bopara has been out of form for a while yet they played him all through the tr-series tournament.
Surely there comes a point when you think he's not cutting it so give his replacement Ballance some valuable game time?
And that's the problem. Also it's a slap in the face for Taylor who had done very well at 3.
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Well played Morgan again.
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Morgan out for yet another duck,am going to start calling him Eoin Morgan 0
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Right given NZ are up next, so we'll be played two lost two.
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What a catch! That's a boundary 99 times out of 100 but not today. Not Englans day when that happens.
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Well you couldn't get two more polar opposite sides. Australia powerful, dominant batting, excellent bowling and sharp fielding. England awful bowling, embarrassing fielding and wretched batting. Truly hopeless from England.
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We dont get to see any Englands days oz,not in recent times any way mate
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And unfortunatley Australia still have the likes of Clarke, Faulkner and Cummins, 2 of which make this side stronger and left Ryan Harris out as they have so much bowling.
Sean Abbott would walk into the England team and he cant get into their squad.
They could honestly play 2 sides here and both would be in the mix to win thetournamout IMO. Bit like 1994/5 when an Australia A side containing Hayden, Langer, Ponting and Martyn got to the One Day Series Final and played Australia.
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Taylor showing why he should have been at 3.
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Taylor showing why he should have been at 3.
I really like the look of Taylor. He is quietly confident and has an assurance at the crease.
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Should have gone at 20.
Won't be facing the likes of Maxwell or Watson agaist fielders that have clocked off at no3 either.
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Taylor giving it a good go here, but it is pretty poor stuff from the others. They look like rabbits in the headlights against Johnson and Starc. Not good signs for later in the year.
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Taylor denied a deserved 100. He is the only player to come out of this game with credit, the rest were dreadful. I know Finn got a hat trick, but the game was up by then. Every aspect of the game was awful except for Taylor. Also just how many times does he have to perform for them to stop messing him about? He should have been three and there should be not debate about it. He must be three in the next match.
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Well beaten there, but I don't get the decision to give the run out at the end. Taylor was initially given out so surely that was a dead ball?
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England have a massive task to turn this around now.
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Taylor denied a deserved 100. He is the only player to come out of this game with credit, the rest were dreadful. I know Finn got a hat trick, but the game was up by then. Every aspect of the game was awful except for Taylor. Also just how many times does he have to perform for them to stop messing him about? He should have been three and there should be not debate about it. He must be three in the next match.
Not sure it was deserved as he was dropped twice but he was robbed of the chance at the end for sure. Let's see if he is 3 next match.
Its a bit more difficult against Johnson, Starc and Hazelwood than what he faced which was Watson, Maxwell, Smith and Marsh so I'd say a cameo at 6 with inventive shots actually suits his style quite well.
Not sure he's set the world alight prior to tonight though - ave 34 in ODI's.
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Following the match on the web so unable to see the run out.If it was a dead ball as Taylor is said to have claimed why was Anderson going for the run ?
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LBW leg bye that the went for a single off. Umpire gave it out LBW.
Aussie at mid on took a shy at the stumps and hit after the standing umpire had raised his finger.
All looked a bit amerturish and unfair IMO. You feel for Taylor.
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Cheers Oz
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-cricket-world-cup-2015/content/story/831473.html
George Dobell sums it up perfectly here
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-cricket-world-cup-2015/content/story/831473.html
George Dobell sums it up perfectly here
Agreed, PGW.
Sad for Chris Woakes, though. Sod's law it had to be one of our players dropping that catch.
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It looks as though scores of over 300 are the norm. Both home countries achieved that in their opening matches.
If you get scared easily then don't stay up for India v Pakistan starting at 3.30.
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I see the ICC have admitted the umpires made a mistake not calling a dead ball at the end.
It wouldn't obviously have effected what was a comprehensive thrashing, but it'd be nice if the umpires knew the rules or applied some common sense. Everyone else seemed to know it was a dead ball except the 3 umpires. Strange.
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OK may be they didn't but let's not absolve Aussies from criticism. Once again they proved to be very poor at sportsmanship.
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It looks as though scores of over 300 are the norm. Both home countries achieved that in their opening matches.
If you get scared easily then don't stay up for India v Pakistan starting at 3.30.
I'm not sure they're the norm, both Australia and NZ are exceptionally good teams.
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OK may be they didn't but let's not absolve Aussies from criticism. Once again they proved to be very poor at sportsmanship.
Not sure we are in any place to claim the sportsmanship moral high ground. The Aussies appealed for a leg before and it went to the third official who gave it not out. The third official then got the run out wrong. It was a dead ball but did it affect the outcome of the game? It just denied Taylor a deserved century.
I recall Broad in the 2013 home Ashes was clearly out in one test but the Umpires got it wrong.
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South Africa 30/2 (10.4 ov) v Zimbabwe !
I think I will have to forego my planned nap before India v Pakistan.
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I'm listening to the India - Pakistan game on TMS. The noise is incredible. It sounds like they're playing in Mumbai not Adelaide.
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It looks as though 300+ scores are the norm for winning teams as shown again today.
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OK may be they didn't but let's not absolve Aussies from criticism. Once again they proved to be very poor at sportsmanship.
I recall Broad in the 2013 home Ashes was clearly out in one test but the Umpires got it wrong.
And we've never heard the fucking end of it. Bit rich coming from Australians as well given their form for sportsmanship on a Cricket field over the years.
And they call us whingers................
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Magnificent victory for Ireland against the West Indies. Thrilled for Warwickshire's Will Porterfield, their captain.
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Just watched the Irish Innings, brilliant display and a well deserved great victory.
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That'll shake their pool up. I expect the West Indies to get through so they'll have to beat some of the test playing nations. The irish should now sneak through.
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Brilliant from the Irish, but f*** me the Windies don't look interested do they? Very poor display.
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Well played Ireland. They are a decent side and generally produce some good players. They need exposure to test cricket to improve still further.
It makes a change for England not to be on the end of one of their world cup beatings.
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Well played Ireland. They are a decent side and generally produce some good players. They need exposure to test cricket to improve still further.
It makes a change for England not to be on the end of one of their world cup beatings.
England? Why? We lost to them often?
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Well played Ireland. They are a decent side and generally produce some good players. They need exposure to test cricket to improve still further.
It makes a change for England not to be on the end of one of their world cup beatings.
England? Why? We lost to them often?
They beat us in the 2012 world cup ang generally perform well against us.
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They've beaten England in both World Cup formats, I think.
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Oh fuck. This is going badly.
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Scotland might be in a spot of bother. Like I said before if England can't win it I'd love NZ to. They've created an excellent side with limited resources.
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At least Scotland making a recovery from 12-4 now moved on to 83-4.
I would have liked to have seen Bears very own Freddie Coleman getting a game but after that opening salvo from Boult
and Southee perhaps not a bad thing for him that he wasn't selected!!!
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I hope the management and selectors start respecting the ability Taylor has. He should be number 3 in the ODI team and he should be in the Test squad in my opinion.
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Interesting article about ex-Bears opener Andy Moles, now coaching Afghanistan:
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31499420
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Interesting article about ex-Bears opener Andy Moles, now coaching Afghanistan:
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31499420
Cheers, I'd missed that. Jeez, 54 eh.
Was in the first squad that I loved for Warwickshire and made me fall in love with cricket:
Andy Moles
Roger Twose
BC Lara
Dominic Ostler
Trevor Penney
Paul Smith
Dermot Reeve
Neil Smith
Dougie Brown
Keith Piper
Tim Munton
Gladys
AD
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This is the season I'm talking about:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warwickshire_County_Cricket_Club_in_1994
Interesting reading for any Statto's.
Looking at the Sunday League I remember going to that first game v Leicester and seeing Michael Bell take a five-for. It seems that was the only game he played that season, any ideas what happened to him. He was a tall half-caste left arm seamer if memory serves.
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Great team, Roger Twose there is a blast from the past... I was gutted when he went to NZ.
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Great team, Roger Twose there is a blast from the past... I was gutted when he went to NZ.
Yeah me to, I remember being in Cardiff after a Sunday League when we won the trophy, we were on the pitch singing "don't you leave us Roger Twose" and he did actually sign for another season.
Interestingly he has the highest ODI average of any NZ international who has scored more than 2000 runs.
EDIT : Bristol not Cardiff
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England started off a bag of shit again.
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Why does it feel like this game is over already?
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England started off a bag of shit again.
Moeen Ali is fast becoming a big problem.
He's only coming off about once every 15 games
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Why have I stayed up yet again when tired to watch this utter fucking garbage??
Why do I do this shit to myself?
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Moeen isn't good enough to be opening the batting. We never get a solid start to be able to throw the bat around at the end and I'm sure as hell bloody sick of seeing them bowled out before the 50th over.
The regime need to wake up because tactically we are shit and keep doing things back to front.
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Moeen isn't good enough to be opening the batting. We never get a solid start to be able to throw the bat around at the end and I'm sure as hell bloody sick of seeing them bowled out before the 50th over.
The regime need to wake up because tactically we are shit and keep doing things back to front.
If Moeen was coming off once every three or four times then fair enough. That would give you a great chance to win a game.
It's nothing like that ratio though. I'm sick to death of seeing him get about 16 from 10 balls then get out. It's just so predictable.
Hales is hit and miss too, but I'd be willing to bet he'd be a damn sight more consistent than Moeen currently is. I'd suppose we'd miss his bowling, but it's not enough to justify his place at present.
You're right about tactics. Taylor's had a fine start at 3, yet has been moved down to 6. Get Taylor back at 3, Bopara at 6/7 and Tredwell in for one of the seamers.
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Our biggest problem, whether we like it for not, is that we just don't have the talent that the Aussies or even NZ do.
You can tinker all you like but man for man we're no where near good enough.
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My God we're shit.
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Steven Finn should be nowhere near our one day side although it's probably a bit harsh to single him out after that performance.
Also, why have they now decided, as the World Cup begins, that Woakes is now suddenly not good enough to open the bowling.
We are an absolute embarrassment.
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Glad I went to bed at 11pm.
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Interesting article about ex-Bears opener Andy Moles, now coaching Afghanistan:
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31499420
Cheers, I'd missed that. Jeez, 54 eh.
Was in the first squad that I loved for Warwickshire and made me fall in love with cricket:
Andy Moles
Roger Twose
BC Lara
Dominic Ostler
Trevor Penney
Paul Smith
Dermot Reeve
Neil Smith
Dougie Brown
Keith Piper
Tim Munton
Gladys
AD
What a team. Packed full of internationals. Keith Piper was the best keeper that I've seen for the Bears and Trevor Penney the best fielder. The bowling attack was special. AD, Gladys, Harry with the Smiths, Reeve and Dougie to pitch in too.
We must be getting towards the time when we start the Bears/Pears 2015 thread unless we keep it in here.
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What a waste of money and an embarrassment. Southee is not great a bowler and England made him look like the best bowler in the world. On to Monday and England v Scotland at Hagley Oval back home in Chch. I'm started to get worried even they will beat us now.
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My God that's the most embarrassing result ever, what a fucking disgrace. Every one of them should be ashamed.
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The thing is that is that bad of thrashing that players and coaches careers are genuinely on the line now. I might put sone money on Scotland.
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Moores hasn't done much since he came back to suggest he's the man. One Test series win against a poor India team is unacceptable.
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My God that's the most embarrassing result ever, what a fucking disgrace. Every one of them should be ashamed.
Really poor from England. It's as if they had written the first two games off as losses before the tournament even started and just gone through the motions.
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The thing is that is that bad of thrashing that players and coaches careers are genuinely on the line now. I might put sone money on Scotland.
I do have to question how seriously some of them take the one-day format. I think some of them genuinely see it as a step down from the test arena and approach it with that attitude. Their central contracts are based around the Test game so that is where their priorities seem to lie.
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On a different track hopefully that is the slap around the face that the entire lot of them needed to force them to get their heads right. The talent is there, it's the application and mental preparation that's missing. There's a whole pile of poor performances there with only Woakes and to an extent Root coming out of that with the ability to say that they gave it a go. Finn and Broad need to look at what they did with the ball and realise that you just can't do that to the biggest hitter in world cricket, regardless of the target being pathetic you can't just gift McCullum 6s like that.
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That wasn't a game of cricket.
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Can it get any worse than today! Totally outplayed and humiliated from start to finish .I can't recall seeing a bigger thrashing ever.
I was starting to think that nobody else had noticed just how poor Moen Ali is performing. As someone earlier remarked he has one good knock in about every 15 and i would say his bowling is nothing special. Morgan ,like Cook does not merit a place in the team on his form .As for Finn, well all i can say ,is if that had been Rankin who bowled like that we would never see him play for England again
The way we are playing you would'nt be confident of us beating Scotland on Monday
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I'm just too disillusioned to want to make any comments on this thread at the moment....aaaaaaggghhhhh
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Just watching 'The Verdict' on SKY now. Calls for Tredwell and Hales to come in, but that's just shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic. Fragile batting line up, Finn and Broad erratic, and Anderson and Woakes there to be smashed if the ball isn't doing anything. Depressing stuff all round.
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To read this thread Moores is the Lambert of England. 4 attack bowlers no variations. Shocking. We are playing 1990's cricket.
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Another team scores 100+ off the last 10 overs, we can't even see out the last 10 nevermind do anything with them, we've already thrown our bat at everything and anything in the first 15 overs and fucked it completely up.
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If you think England are bad Pakistan are 1-4.
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Moores was the wrong appointment last year and his record since then is poor with only a test series win against a poor Indian side providing anything of any note.
He was a poor coach last time and he's a poor coach now. The players look like rabbits caught in headlamps. They have no answer to the changing modern one day game and are stuck 10 years behind other top sides.
With Bangladesh getting a point from the abandoned Aussie game we could now struggle to make the quarters.
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We've gone the other way now and we're too aggressive at the top of the order. Moeen Ali is a good player and I rate him highly, but he's taking too many risks. He needs to be more calculated and he's certainly capable of that.
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We've gone the other way now and we're too aggressive at the top of the order. Moeen Ali is a good player and I rate him highly, but he's taking too many risks. He needs to be more calculated and he's certainly capable of that.
You can tell the players we've picked aren't comfortable playing that way. They'd be more than happy nudging the ball around for thirty or so overs and then having a go in the last ten. I'm not sold on Moeen being an international top order batsman to be honest. Unless he is going to offer something with his bowling then I'm not sure he warrants a place in the side.
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The Saffers are suffering from an England-esque collapse.
You have to hand it to the Indians. They always come alive in big tournaments. At the start of this tournament they'd been in Oz since November and had not won a single game. They even lost to England. Now they're ticking along nicely. I thought South Africa would comfortably beat them.
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I rate Ali highly but I think they're asking him to do the wrong job.
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I disagree, I thin Moeen can be the aggressive opener in time but because he's not naturally this aggressive he's struggling to judge the right time to attack and the ease off. The biggest issue this side has is that Cook was kept far too long and we've left them with nothing like enough time to develop an identity and settle in to their roles.
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I don't mean he can't be an opener, but he needs to be more judicious with his shots. I'm a big fan of his, but he's not performing. England need to win and perform here, especially after naming the same team.
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The two Birmingham boys looking fairly comfortable so far.
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Moeen playing more sensibly here.
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Bell looks well short of form.
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This is what I mean though, he needs to learn to pick his shots even when the bowling gets a lot more aggressive and especially if wickets fall at the other end.
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This is what I mean though, he needs to learn to pick his shots even when the bowling gets a lot more aggressive and especially if wickets fall at the other end.
The standard of bowling has to be taken into account Paul. The commentators were saying that train of thought is that Moeen is particularly vulnerable to full pitched bowling after a short ball.
Don't really understand the logic of Ballance coming in at three when we're 174-1 after 30 overs against Scotland.
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Totally lost momentum after Bell was out and now we are 4 of down with 203 on the board. When we ever learn.
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This is what I mean though, he needs to learn to pick his shots even when the bowling gets a lot more aggressive and especially if wickets fall at the other end.
The standard of bowling has to be taken into account Paul. The commentators were saying that train of thought is that Moeen is particularly vulnerable to full pitched bowling after a short ball.
Don't really understand the logic of Ballance coming in at three when we're 174-1 after 30 overs against Scotland.
I understand, but what I'm saying is that he has the ability to be there, he just gets a bit lost when he's put under pressure. With players like Moeen and Morgan they look better when they're trying to score off everything, once you 'tame' them and get them picking their shots they look far less effective.
Aside from that I agree on Ballance, he shouldn't be in the side but to bring him on at 3 in that situation was a huge error and is probably the biggest difference between what we got and the 350+ we should've achieved.
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Excellent from Moeen, Bell did well and Morgan got some useful runs. Very worrying how we fell apart once the opening partnership was broken. Hales has to come in for Ballance, because he's offering nothing at all.
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Ballance plays further down the order for his county and can finish a one-day innings well, but he is pushed up for England because Morgan insists on playing himself at 5.
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The batting performance off the last 20 overs against what is no better than an average county attack was poor. No momentum and no-one pressing for a big target. We were set for 300 almost from the start. It was as if they sensed that 300 was there for the taking and rested on their laurels. Surely we should have seized the opportunity to set 350 plus and send a message out to our future opponents? There's also the small matter of net run rate too which after two defeats is very poor.
This approach has to stem from the team management. It's a negative mindset which has to change.
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The batting performance off the last 20 overs against what is no better than an average county attack was poor. No momentum and no-one pressing for a big target. We were set for 300 almost from the start. It was as if they sensed that 300 was there for the taking and rested on their laurels. Surely we should have seized the opportunity to set 350 plus and send a message out to our future opponents? There's also the small matter of net run rate too which after two defeats is very poor.
This approach has to stem from the team management. It's a negative mindset which has to change.
Taylor should have come in at three as he would have been able to keep the momentum going when Bell got out. I would play him at three with Bopara coming back in further down the order.
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I'd bring Hales in for Ballance. But either way we have to be a lot more flexible depending on the situation.
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I'd bring Hales in for Ballance. But either way we have to be a lot more flexible depending on the situation.
Would you bat Hales at 3 Paul or would have him opening with either Bell or Moeen moving down?
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There's been calls for more flexibility in the line-up for many years and several different set-ups but nobody listens. Probably because the team's so data driven that it's left no room for reactionary decisions.
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Brave Scotland falter against England.
Noticed that Warwickshire now have a Scot in the squad.
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I'd bring Hales in for Ballance. But either way we have to be a lot more flexible depending on the situation.
Would you bat Hales at 3 Paul or would have him opening with either Bell or Moeen moving down?
I think I'd have Hales open with Bell dropping to three.
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I'd bring Hales in for Ballance. But either way we have to be a lot more flexible depending on the situation.
Would you bat Hales at 3 Paul or would have him opening with either Bell or Moeen moving down?
I think I'd have Hales open with Bell dropping to three.
I could see that, but I fear that Hales and Moeen looks quite a flimsy opening partnership at international level.
I've always said that we've never replaced Marcus Trescothick at the top of the order in the limited overs game and it also doesn't help when our most natural option at 3 is sat at home probably still sulking about how little he went for in the IPL auction!!
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There's been calls for more flexibility in the line-up for many years and several different set-ups but nobody listens. Probably because the team's so data driven that it's left no room for reactionary decisions.
Yep the old "let's try and get to 35 overs with only a few down and we can have a go from there" attitude which was last successful in the early 90's.
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Great day yesterday and a wonderful atmosphere. Thought England would score between 350-400 but lost their way after Moeen & Bell were out. Ballance doesn't offer anything to the team and I agree that Hales should be given a chance and Bell come in at 3.
Scotland tried hard but they were a lot slower in the field and they were always struggling when batting (after the first 4 or so overs).
The best bit of action was the stumping of Taylor. Brilliant wicket keeping.
Met Boycs before the game going into the ground and some of my friends had photos taken with him.
Overall a good day out, but I'm still not convinced with England. If they lose to Sri Lanka on Sunday I can see them in big trouble when they play Bangladesh.
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Watching Chris Gayle going nuts for WI against Zimbabwe. A truly amazing innings. Currently on 190 not out.
Wow and there's the 200, highest world cup score and (so far) equalling the record 16 sixes.
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It's all very well getting 215 against minnows but this man mosly lets his country down when they need him most. I will judge him v India or South Africa. It's always about Gayle as far as he is concerned.
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It's all very well getting 215 against minnows but this man mosly lets his country down when they need him most. I will judge him v India or South Africa. It's always about Gayle as far as he is concerned.
He does let his country down and was probably the first "mercenary" cricketer of the moidern era who put his bank balance before representing his country.
That said, he's now the first batsman to score a century in a T20 International, a double-century in an ODI and a triple century in a test. That is some record.
I never thought Sir Viv's 189 against England all those years ago would ever be bettered. Each year that goes by anaother record is smashed and as good as Gayle's innings was, it's still 49 runs behind Rohit Sharma's record.
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Sri Lanka could pose a serious problem on Saturday.
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The two closest finishes and most exciting games so far have been between Associate sides, you know, the sides that they want to all but banish from the next World Cup.
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The two closest finishes and most exciting games so far have been between Associate sides, you know, the sides that they want to all but banish from the next World Cup.
Which is absolutely ridiculous. If you reduce it to 10 teams it's essentially another Champions trophy. The World Cup should increase in the number of teams who qualify not reduce.
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This is well worth a watch, a film made about the Afghanistan cricket team.
Out of the Ashes.
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We must keep emerging cricketing countries at WC. Being there is huge encouragement to the game in their homelands. I loved the celebration by the Afghan batsman after he hit the winning runs. The whole team's delight at winning a match at this stage was fantastic. The so called big 8 honestly don't care too much if they win or lose a one dayer due to number of matches they play to generate cash.
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We must keep emerging cricketing countries at WC. Being there is huge encouragement to the game in their homelands. I loved the celebration by the Afghan batsman after he hit the winning runs. The whole team's delight at winning a match at this stage was fantastic. The so called big 8 honestly don't care too much if they win or lose a one dayer due to number of matches they play to generate cash.
Agree completely and it's also very short sighted. They need to be buidling the game and spreading it across the globe not reducing it to an elite club.
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We must keep emerging cricketing countries at WC. Being there is huge encouragement to the game in their homelands. I loved the celebration by the Afghan batsman after he hit the winning runs. The whole team's delight at winning a match at this stage was fantastic. The so called big 8 honestly don't care too much if they win or lose a one dayer due to number of matches they play to generate cash.
spot on...olaftab :)
UTV
the Doc
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I agree expand it out with another 4-6 teams and make the groups a little smaller so you don't have 4 top sides in a group which sees 4 qualifiers. I'd also add a plate competition for the teams that do go out at the group to play off as a 'best of the rest' award to give the likes of Ireland, Scotland, etc something better to measure themselves against on a big stage.
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I agree expand it out with another 4-6 teams and make the groups a little smaller so you don't have 4 top sides in a group which sees 4 qualifiers. I'd also add a plate competition for the teams that do go out at the group to play off as a 'best of the rest' award to give the likes of Ireland, Scotland, etc something better to measure themselves against on a big stage.
Yep I agree with that. They should also play two games in one day. A reward for the plate winner could be qualifying for champions trophy or something like that.
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SA 408-5 against Windies.
AB DeVilliers 162, including 30 off the last over.
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That De Villiers innings was crazy.
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It's a bit tiresome all of these batting records being broken. A fair contest between bat bad ball is much better to watch.
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It's a bit tiresome all of these batting records being broken. A fair contest between bat bad ball is much better to watch.
It is but then again how could you stop a player like De Villiers when he is in this kind of form? Which bowler could contain him?
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It's a bit tiresome all of these batting records being broken. A fair contest between bat bad ball is much better to watch.
It's why the game's between the associate nations have been the best.
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It's a bit tiresome all of these batting records being broken. A fair contest between bat bad ball is much better to watch.
It is but then again how could you stop a player like De Villiers when he is in this kind of form? Which bowler could contain him?
By having pitches that aren't like playing on concrete. it's all a bit too predictable which makes for huge scores like we're seeing.
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It's a bit tiresome all of these batting records being broken. A fair contest between bat bad ball is much better to watch.
It is but then again how could you stop a player like De Villiers when he is in this kind of form? Which bowler could contain him?
By having pitches that aren't like playing on concrete. it's all a bit too predictable which makes for huge scores like we're seeing.
In the main they're typically Aussie pitches (apart from the ones in New Zealand obviously). They're playing a world cup towards the end of a dry Aussie summer whereas when it's played over here it's played in June and typically English pitches are produced.
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Bloody hell I'm watching the highlights and it's crazy to think that SA were 150-2 in the 30th.
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This match is pretty much why I was happy not to run off and denigrate England too harshly. Obviously I didn't see this in particular, but the combination of not playing for two weeks + excellent bowling attack + partisan home crowd + middle order lacking someone capable of holding it together was always going to leave it open for something like this happen.
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I switched TMS on when I woke up. What a finish! Starc's 6-28 deserved a win. A remarkable match.
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Nice to see two other teams fold like a deck of cards, the Aussies lose and Johnson get smashed around the park.
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Well the NZ v Aus was a proper match. Let's hope for more of that and less of SA v WI.
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NZ have been really impressive so far. They and the Saffers look like the teams to beat early on.
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If England keep this up they'll post 400. I mean, they won't, but it's a good start.
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Moeen got a bit bogged down and played a nothing shot but this has still been a very good start. Bell should play with this freedom more often, he's such a good player when he isn't putting too much pressure on himself.
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Ali failed again, there again its not Scotland !
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That's a poor shot again from Ballance, the ball did nothing in particular and he's just poked it into the air.
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Ballance really shouldn't be in the side, he just doesn't look suited to ODIs for me, Hales in and either him or Moeen at 3 for me.
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Awww Bell, what have you done, he was so well set there and that's just a nothing shot.
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Bell did what Bell does. Annoying.
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Very knee jerk reactin ish but he has to be dumped after this, Bell. He really doesn't offer enough often enough. Cull the likes of Bell, Broad, Bopara, and maybe even Ali and go with a squad of 13 or 14 or so for a couple of seasons and let them grow.
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8 overs left and we just seem to be content to be nudging the ball around and picking up singles with six wickets left. We're not making 300 at this rate.
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You don't see many genuine beamers these days but that was one right there.
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Finished on 309-6. Decent total, but could have been more if we'd shown a bit more urgency earlier on.
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Thought I'd forget about the dreadful goings on at B6 and watch a competitive game where my team stands a decent chance of recording a win.
Sri Lanka currently 273-1!! Bowling shit, fielding shit and Captaincy shit.
I've had enough of sport.
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I don't know which is more soul destroying,watching Villa or England. Villa can not score and England can not take a wicket. With Small Heath and the Baggies both winning a truly shit weekend.
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Well that was fun! Sri Lanka knock off over 300 easy as you like.
Bowled too short AGAIN and dropped catches.
Not quite sure who is worse right now, England or the Villa.
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And followed by the most passionless Captains interview from Eoin Morgan you'll see, and after that performance. Atleast speak like it means something FFS!
Just looked and sounded like he didn't give a fuck and/or had no idea. Like listening to the Cricket version of Lambert.
We're in a terrible place at the moment.
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no point blaming morgan for this defeat. 310 was a good final score. yes they got stuck in the middle but SL leaked too many easy runs at the end and it evened out at 310. Half time it was 60 40 england.
The bowling was horrendous. Bowling short at sanga every time was just plain idiotic. anderson and broad should know better. Broad sledging dilshan and getting carted for sixes was embarrassing as well. Senior bowlers havnt stood up this world cup and there is no one in the bench to make a difference. Not even in county cricket.
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How the hell are we still in with a chance of making the quarters after three embarrassing defeats? Send them home now and put an end to this shambles.
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Finn is just bowling lollipops. One good performance in five.
Fast becoming the Cricketing version of Gabby.
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Dismal. Time for Moores to go.
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If they keep their heads Zimbabwe should comfortably beat Pakistan.
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Dismal. Time for Moores to go.
Agreed. A poor choice last year and nothing I've seen since has convinced me otherwise.
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Anderson and Broad should be dropped too.
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You would think we might realise we need to get away from our stats based obsession. Also Hales absolutely must play now and I'd drop Broad or Anderson.
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Being obsessed with stats is fine and the people who slag off statistical approaches to sport generally piss me off, England's problem is that they aren't focused on the correct stats. One from last night was that the 3 best sides in the world take the batting power play early nearly half the time, we take it early less than a quarter of the time. That's an interesting stat because it highlights how our lack of killer instinct is a key part of our issue with the bat. They'd also see that taking pace off the ball is proven to be effective and that death bowling that is full-er and slower is more effective than quick bouncers.
Behind everything Englands problem is that we're approaching the game in a manner that doesn't work post T20, the game has changed massively since the mid90s and English ODI tactics haven't changed with it, until someone realises that batsmen need to counter-attack and hit people out of the attack (we did it with Lakmal yesterday and then let Dilshan and Mathews throw pies with no response) then with the ball we need to start making plans that fit with the game now, generally that means bowling a few at the stumps, a tactic that we have underused for years.
On top of that English cricket needs to start encouraging players to join the IPL and Big Bash, lets start trying to get 15-10 English players involved in both of those competitions every year, get them used to other conditions and playing with players and coaches who have a different approach to the game.
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I think it's clear Moores isn't up to it.
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I am starting to believe that KP is correct. There is a clique/disease in England's dressing room and I hang it firmly at the door of Broad and Anderson. They are far to secure in their position in the team and I imagine hold far too much power. With that must come much intimidation.
Id stick with Morgan as captain but clear out the dead wood.
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And I'm still yet to see a reasonable explanation as to what Finn did to warrant a place back in this side.
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Finn needs to sort his pace badly.
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Anderson is 33 this year and if he wants to continue playing test cricket, either test matches or ODi's will have to go.
Moores is hit and miss. As manager he probably want's to overrule his captain on selection, even though the captain is there on the pitch making all the decisions. Who's team is this Morgan or Moores?
It will be interesting to see if there is any fallout when Test Match cricket returns between Cook & Moores.
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Finn needs to sort his pace badly.
Which he should have done in County Cricket.
Broad, Anderson, Woakes, Finn. Has there ever been a more one paced attack in international cricket.
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Finn needs to sort his pace badly.
Which he should have done in County Cricket.
Broad, Anderson, Woakes, Finn. Has there ever been a more one paced attack in international cricket.
it's the unwillingness to alter their pace that worries me, it's why I liked us experimenting with Dernbach, for all the pies he throws he's unpredictable enough to offer something.
For me Broad and Finn need to go of those 4, Finn to spend 3-4months at his county finding his pace and finding variations. Broad just needs to go, he's been over-coached to the point of no return, he has something to offer in tests but in ODI and T20 he's a liability. I'd bring in another spinner, Tredwell for now, and then we need to find a genuine quick, someone with 5-6mph more than anything we have now, I hoped Jordan could become that but again they seem to be coaching him to be a swing bowler rather than focusing on improving his pace and accuracy.
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The pitch was never going to be suitable for playing four seamers, who frankly don't have a lot of difference about them, so why didn't England pick a further spinner?
Broad annoys me as he is full of giving 'verbals' to both his own team and the opposition, but his batting and bowling has been atrocious for quite a while now. He needs to be dropped.
The whole set up seems to stink and the sooner they get rid of the more senior players and start from scratch, the better.
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Well done Pakistan! Brilliant bowling performance.
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Agreed JD, Broad or rent a mouth as i have heard him called should be dropped on his present form. As for his verbals ,they should not come as a surprise, his father was the same ,i always remember the incident when harshly given out he smashed his bat on to the stumps .Like father like son as the saying goes
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Ireland v Zimbabwe is bubbling along nicely. It should be a cracking finish.
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19 off the penultimate over means Zimbabwe need 7 off 6 balls.
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brilliant well done Ireland. what a finish
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Ireland took 2 wickets in 3 balls to win by 5 runs.
A really entertaining game. 660 runs, 18 wickets, batsmen with tons on both sides, batsmen out in the 90's on both sides. Fabulous stuff.
Some the games between the so called lesser nations have been wonderful. Certainly a lot better than watching England plod along like a drunk trying to remember where they live.
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The Australia - Sri Lanka game is nicely poised. SL need 130 off 74 with 6 wickets in hand.
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The pitch was never going to be suitable for playing four seamers, who frankly don't have a lot of difference about them, so why didn't England pick a further spinner?
Broad annoys me as he is full of giving 'verbals' to both his own team and the opposition, but his batting and bowling has been atrocious for quite a while now. He needs to be dropped.
The whole set up seems to stink and the sooner they get rid of the more senior players and start from scratch, the better.
One of the problems is that they don't play enough domestic limited overs cricket. For the established internationals, all their limited overs cricket is played at international level giving them no real opportunity to experiment.
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I'd go...
Hales
Bell
Root
Ali
Morgan
Taylor
Buttler
Woakes
Jordan
Tredwell
Anderson
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I agree but only if there's a willingness to move people around to fit the match situation, the rigid sticking to the order is the thing I find most annoying with England right now. Well except for the insistence on bowling to a plan even if it's not working.
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Hales and Jordan in for Ballance and Finn. Won the toss and will bowl first.
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The so called experts on Cricinfo saying that England should have batted first as it is much harder to chase under lights here.They would have batted first if they had won the toss.Let's hope this is not England's first mistake
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6-2.........
99-4.......
261-6.....
Why do I bother setting the alarm to catch up with this abject rubbish?
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276 to win. Pulled it back a bit (it was looking like a 300+ score at one point), but England do make things difficult for themselves. It's make or break time.
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Moeen what were you doing. Right Hales prove the selectors wrong.
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Ali out for a stupid run out, no idea why we decided to chase and put this extra pressure on ourselves, they just don't seem to trust themselves to set a decent target.
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This should be comfortable really. 275 on this pitch isn't great.
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It's steady at the moment, but I worry that if we don't get well ahead of the rate we'll panic if a couple of wickets fall.
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It's steady at the moment, but I worry that if we don't get well ahead of the rate we'll panic if a couple of wickets fall.
That's what I mean by pressure, we all know England have a habit of being overly cautious against spin, if they can bog us down in the middle overs I can see the target pushing up towards 7 and then I don't trust not to panic in the batting powerplay and make a mess of things.
Hales has disappointed me a little there, I'd much rather he'd come in with the intention of getting quick runs and really putting bangladesh on the defensive, a nice 40-50 from 30-35 balls would have put us in total control here, and that's his natural game, looks like yet another exciting batsman who's been picked for the squad because he can be explosive who is then asked to bat well within himself.
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I don't really blame Hales, he's had absolutely no cricket you can't expect him to come in and just cruise along. Two wickets down now and one of these really needs to accelerate to ease the pressure on the middle order.
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See NZ would be at about 180 by now and be cruising, but we are putting needless pressure on ourselves.
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I don't really blame Hales, he's had absolutely no cricket you can't expect him to come in and just cruise along. Two wickets down now and one of these really needs to accelerate to ease the pressure on the middle order.
I don't blame him at all, I blame the England management entirely. It doesn't help though that so many people are willing to moan about Moeen being aggressive, as with other sports English teams are just so risk averse, as a fan of football,rugby and cricket it's really frustrating to see the same mistakes being made in all 3 sports where consistent 6-7 out of 10 is prioritised over 5-10 out of 10 every time. Having a core of consistency is fine but you need someone to stop you being predictable and England just seem frightened of those players, in all 3 sports.
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Bell gone, we're really trying our hardest to fuck this up.
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Well we should have had Hales opening not down at number 3. Given his lack of cricket and his inevitable scratchiness you maty as use the opening overs to feel your way in not from around the 10th over. I genuinely think we have a decent batting line-up which are good enough to score 300/350+ regulalrly but they are let down by the management and not reacting to the state of the game as it unfolds before them.
270 odd is a comfortable chase for us so get Hales in at the top. Once he found his range the game could have been gone from Bangladesh very early. Vital when you think that there is heavy rain around Sydney being forecast for friday so our net run rate needed to be addressed because win here and 1 point v Afghanistan will see us go out. Of course you can't play for the possibility of rain 4 days away, but you give yourselves every chance. The worst that could happen? We go 1 down and it's Ali-Bell anyway against an average attack.
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Bell c Bell b Bell
again
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More worried about Morgan, that's just not a captain's innings, very disappointing. We need these 2 to get going pretty quickly and keep the required rate down, if we can get to 40 overs with the best part of 200 up Buttler can still win this for us but we can't just withdraw and let 4-5 overs 'drift' so we're chasing 110-120 from the last 10.
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Morgan has just gone hasn't he? His confidence is low and he can't seem to captain and think. We should still do this. But no-one would be surprised to see us mess it up from here.
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For fuck sake Taylor, that's just the simplest of traps you've fallen for.
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'Kin 'ell
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Actually getting to watch some cricket, not really seen Taylor before but that was one of the ugliest looking dismissals I've ever seen. Brainless.
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At least it'll mean the end of Moores. Again. And hopefully Downton.
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No pressure Jos but we're fucked if you don't get a score here son, have fun.
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This could be very embarrassing.
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Just jumped on sky go from the office for a minute, the taylor wicket is a completely brain dead shot, Morgan's is a touch unlucky, good catch and was only a few feet short of being a 6 but it was thw wrong shot for the time in the game.
We're just lucky that Buttler and Root are our 2 best players (on form) which means we've got a chance still.
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Just jumped on sky go from the office for a minute, the taylor wicket is a completely brain dead shot, Morgan's is a touch unlucky, good catch and was only a few feet short of being a 6 but it was thw wrong shot for the time in the game.
We're just lucky that Buttler and Root are our 2 best players (on form) which means we've got a chance still.
2 sweet drives from Buttler in this over, the 2nd is a beauty.
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Huge 5 overs coming up. This could determine our progression from the group.
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FFS
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Oh, we f*** off then. At least it's Root I suppose. Wonder if we'll bat out.
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Fucking woeful. 6 months to prepare and look at this shambles. Moores has to go.
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Nearly all over now, and just like our football team at World Cups it will be a blessing because we have stunk the place out, we're no better than those Associate sides that they want to get rid of in future WCs.
Awful, need to rip it up and start again (great tune).
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Thing is we all saw it earlier, how do the players not? They just ambled along at the top and sure enough now we're buried. It's yet another fucking pathetic effort at the World Cup. Just what has to happen for English cricket to realise that how we approach ODIs is completely wrong.
Incidentally I bet Cook's sitting at home a relieved man.
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The worst thing about this is we can put decent players in this England squad but, just like the Lambert era Villa without a complete change in philosophy we're always going to be this tame, negative side that fails on the big stage every time.
Moores was the wrong choice at the time (he'd already failed with England and then gone away and done very little in the county game before getting the job back) and now it's clear that he's not going to change the direction this team is heading.
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13 overs to get 103 with 4 in hand my money is on England.
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England won't win this, but even if they do it doesn't change the fact that Moores and the entire philosophy is wrong. Ali, Taylor, Buttler, Morgan(in theory) and Root are all fully capable ODI players who are being stifled. I think you can only have one of Broad, Woakes and Anderson and I'd go for Woakes. Jordan has had his threat coached out of him for the most part.
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13 overs to get 103 with 4 in hand my money is on England.
Dunno, it's all on Buttler really, we need to hope for Woakes to rotate the strike and Jordan has the ability to flash some but tha't not reliable in either case, it's really not fair on Buttler that he's again been asked to come in and be the only player in the top 7 who really attacks and wins the game for us.
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England won't win this, but even if they do it doesn't change the fact that Moores and the entire philosophy is wrong. Ali, Taylor, Buttler, Morgan(in theory) and Root are all fully capable ODI players who are being stifled. I think you can only have one of Broad, Woakes and Anderson and I'd go for Woakes. Jordan has had his threat coached out of him for the most part.
It's as though Moores is the Lambert of Cricket, dour and uninspiring. He's always struck me as someone who is too afraid of failure and this is rubbing off on the players.
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Woakes has done a good job supporting Buttler here. Exactly what we needed from him, he's rotated the strike well and run well.
As for Buttler, for me, he's right up there with Maxwell, De Villiers and Dhoni as a mid-order powerhouse who can take the game away from teams very quickly.
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Moores was the wrong choice at the time (he'd already failed with England and then gone away and done very little in the county game before getting the job back)
Apart from leading Lancashire to their first title win in 77 years, I'm not a fan but credit where it's due.
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Moores was the wrong choice at the time (he'd already failed with England and then gone away and done very little in the county game before getting the job back)
Apart from leading Lancashire to their first title win in 77 years, I'm not a fan but credit where it's due.
True. But if our inexperienced attack could have taken 6 wickets at hampshire then he wouldn't have. They weren't the best team that year. I have no problem with Yorkshire winning it last year because they were the best. But, i guess its nitpicking.
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Moores was the wrong choice at the time (he'd already failed with England and then gone away and done very little in the county game before getting the job back)
Apart from leading Lancashire to their first title win in 77 years, I'm not a fan but credit where it's due.
and then relegating them the next season.
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Over to you then Mr Woakes.
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Woakes has done a good job supporting Buttler here. Exactly what we needed from him, he's rotated the strike well and run well.
As for Buttler, for me, he's right up there with Maxwell, De Villiers and Dhoni as a mid-order powerhouse who can take the game away from teams very quickly.
feck, jinxed him, sorry all.
Jordan needs to slog a few here.
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third umpire has got that wrong for me, I don't think you can say the shoulder of the bat is definitely not down there, the reverse angle casts enough doubt for me.
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I didn't think that was out. From behind the stumps he'd made his ground before his momentum forced his bat up.
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third umpire has got that wrong for me, I don't think you can say the shoulder of the bat is definitely not down there, the reverse angle casts enough doubt for me.
I'm not sure how that could be given out really. Broad really needs to step up here.
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Moores was the wrong choice at the time (he'd already failed with England and then gone away and done very little in the county game before getting the job back)
Apart from leading Lancashire to their first title win in 77 years, I'm not a fan but credit where it's due.
and then relegating them the next season.
Yes but winning the championship isn't 'very little'. As I say I'm not a fan of him or Lancashire but it's the biggest thing you can win in the domestic game.
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Moores was the wrong choice at the time (he'd already failed with England and then gone away and done very little in the county game before getting the job back)
Apart from leading Lancashire to their first title win in 77 years, I'm not a fan but credit where it's due.
and then relegating them the next season.
Yes but winning the championship isn't 'very little'. As I say I'm not a fan of him or Lancashire but it's the biggest thing you can win in the domestic game.
Ok, very little may be harsh, let's restate it as 'with mixed results and nothing that showed that he was clearly binned too soon'.
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third umpire has got that wrong for me, I don't think you can say the shoulder of the bat is definitely not down there, the reverse angle casts enough doubt for me.
I tuned into TMS during the debate about the run out. Aggers was worried from the start that the bat wasn't down.
What was the original on-field decision ? Or did the umpire just call straight for the video ?
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third umpire has got that wrong for me, I don't think you can say the shoulder of the bat is definitely not down there, the reverse angle casts enough doubt for me.
I tuned into TMS during the debate about the run out. Aggers was worried from the start that the bat wasn't down.
What was the original on-field decision ? Or did the umpire just call straight for the video ?
Straight to the third umpire.
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I think that England are going to fluke their way out of this mess
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Will be tight
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I think that England are going to fluke their way out of this mess
.........or maybe not
What a shambles
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hmph
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Taxi for Moores
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Fecking woeful. A new low in English cricket.
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Fecking hell. I guess I overestimated England's abilities
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Useless.
At least that shower of shit can't humiliate us further.
Oh wait, they still have to play Afghanistan...
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What an utter fucking shambles. Moores and arguably Downton have to go now. As was said earlier, in the batting, there is a nucleus of a good side. Ali, Buttler, Root, Taylor, Hales and Morgan(if in form) are all capable going forward. They just need to be given the licence to play. The bowling is terrible, it's all one paced with no variation. The whole attitudue to ODI cricket has to change. It's an utterly embarrassing World Cup and question marks will be raised over the future of Broad after his display in the tournament.
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Pathetic, all caused by the negativity in the top order putting far too much pressure on Buttler, Woakes, etc to try to save the game.
They need to start again with the ODI and T20 sides, get a new coach for those formats, get rid of Broad and Jimmy (and maybe Bell as well) and lets focus on putting together a side who can go for 350+ on pitches like this. We should've batted first and we should've set them a massive target but the whole setup are terrified of playing with any creativity and let teams dominate them too easily and too often.
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What an utter fucking shambles. Moores and arguably Downton have to go now. As was said earlier, in the batting, there is a nucleus of a good side. Ali, Buttler, Root, Taylor, Hales and Morgan(if in form) are all capable going forward. They just need to be given the licence to play. The bowling is terrible, it's all one paced with no variation. The whole attitudue to ODI cricket has to change. It's an utterly embarrassing World Cup and question marks will be raised over the future of Broad after his display in the tournament.
Agree with all of that. Want to say congratulations to Bangladesh though. You can tell by the celebrations how much it means to them.
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As a Yorkshire supporter I don't want it to happen but as an England supporter it would be great, I can see Colin Graves putting in the call to Jason Gillespie.
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Pathetic, all caused by the negativity in the top order putting far too much pressure on Buttler, Woakes, etc to try to save the game.
They need to start again with the ODI and T20 sides, get a new coach for those formats, get rid of Broad and Jimmy (and maybe Bell as well) and lets focus on putting together a side who can go for 350+ on pitches like this. We should've batted first and we should've set them a massive target but the whole setup are terrified of playing with any creativity and let teams dominate them too easily and too often.
This is not a new thing though is it, we've been poor in limited overs cricket for some time now. I think that limited overs cricket is an afterthought in this country because central contracts are based around the test game.
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Yep well done Bangladesh. If you compare the resources of Bangladesh and England it just shows what they've achieved. England's ODI cricket must change now we are completely out of date. Frankly it's not just out of date, because we would have got beat playing in any era. We're just a terribly managed team.
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In a way, I'm glad.
After being humiliated by Australia, New Zealand and Sri Lanka, it would have been an absolute travesty if we'd have got into the quarter final through the back door. Bangladesh have shown England and Moores up for what they really are.
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Clamour for KP to return will be getting a bit louder now.
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I'd like to see Gillespie. That's a good shout Chris.
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Yep Gillespie would be a good shout. There's no way Moores can survive this. We've lost every series/tournament he's been involved in other than the Test series with India last summer. He simply has to go.
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I wonder which England player will have the audacity to say they just need to ignore the negativity coming their way and they're a close group.
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Yep Gillespie would be a good shout. There's no way Moores can survive this. We've lost every series/tournament he's been involved in other than the Test series with India last summer. He simply has to go.
I'm willing to bet he will.
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I wonder which England player will have the audacity to say they just need to ignore the negativity coming their way and they're a close group.
It will be Broad or Anderson. They seem to run the show.
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Yep Gillespie would be a good shout. There's no way Moores can survive this. We've lost every series/tournament he's been involved in other than the Test series with India last summer. He simply has to go.
I'm willing to bet he will.
He'll probably takes us into the Ashes. A hammering in that and he'll be gone.
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Colin Graves isn't afraid to ruffle a few feathers (http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/14895636.app)
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'We haven't got a settled team, we lost two key players at the top of the order - Jonathan Trott was our number three - we accept that and move on from it.'
I'm sorry from all the nonsense that Moores has come out with that stands out. Firstly who's the second player, is it KP? If it is then he's not there because he was fired to improve harmony. That's worked out really well hasn't it? I think the last year has shown that Pietersen, annoying as he can be, was not the problem with the England team. Secondly they lost Trott and that's why they're not settled? He went out of the squad over 14 months ago, that's plenty of time. Also he's not a modern day ODI player.
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Can we sink any lower,i doubt it. As for our captain Morgan,that is now 5 ducks in 11 innings which equals the record set by Mike Brearley years ago,just how many chances does this guy get
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'The reality is we are not overloaded with a lot of high-class one-day players back at home."
Oh dear Moores is turning on the players now.
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"We prepared well. We covered the right stuff, but we haven't played well. We have to take that."
No Peter you clearly haven't prepared well and covered the right stuff. That's why we bombed massively. The bowling unit is completely wrong, the batting should be ok. You don't change your team on the eve of the tournament.
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Watching the better teams and watching England, it is like 2 different games are being played. We also look a little more competitive at home, but seem to massively struggle in one day stuff as soon as we are away. We need to let our players get some more exposure to overseas conditions - the problem is though, they are so lacking in form even if they get picked by an IPL franchise they aren't good enough to play.
I don't think Moores comes across as particularly inspiring - a little like PL perhaps. Maybe they need to take a look at the Aussie approach - pick some players and tell them to go and express themselves.
It is disappointing but I am not getting too razzed up over it.....being an old git (just turned 40) it is all about the Test matches for me.
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Watching the better teams and watching England, it is like 2 different games are being played. We also look a little more competitive at home, but seem to massively struggle in one day stuff as soon as we are away. We need to let our players get some more exposure to overseas conditions - the problem is though, they are so lacking in form even if they get picked by an IPL franchise they aren't good enough to play.
I don't think Moores comes across as particularly inspiring - a little like PL perhaps. Maybe they need to take a look at the Aussie approach - pick some players and tell them to go and express themselves.
It is disappointing but I am not getting too razzed up over it.....being an old git (just turned 40) it is all about the Test matches for me.
I prefer test cricket so I'm largely with you but the issues we've had in tests mirror those we have in ODIs, we're just too passive for long spells, everything is safety first, don't get over-confident, don't give things away trying to do something different and then as soon as the opposition mix it up and get something go their way we're instantly on the back foot scrambling to get the game back to the dull sedate nothing we're comfortable. There's a time and a place for taking the heat out of the game and it's not every time we bat, in every format, until the required run rate gets too high. When you see England players going out in T20 games or late in ODIs and trying to build an innings it's pretty clear that the mindset is so ingrained it's acting asa noose around the players.
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A Test match sometimes dictates a period of digging in, taking the heat out of the situation, and I have no issue with that - our issue is we seem to do it the shorter forms.
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A Test match sometimes dictates a period of digging in, taking the heat out of the situation, and I have no issue with that - our issue is we seem to do it the shorter forms.
Exactly my point on the shorter formats.
However tests also have periods where going after the bowlers for a session ca be the difference, and we rarely do that either.
As I say, separate coach for ODI and T20, separate central contracts, separate selectors. Lets start treating it as the same difference as rugby and rugby 7's and pick players who are the best for that format. By giving ODI/T20 central contracts we can put pressure on those players and their counties to get them exposure in the IPL, Big Bash, etc and try to develop players who have experience in those conditions rather than a team of identikit back foot batsmen and medium-fast swing bowlers.
The first thing to do is build the short format team around Buttler, he's a genuine world class talent in those formats and the game plan/setup should be about giving him the time and opportunity to break teams, like Maxwell did for Australia the other day.
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A Test match sometimes dictates a period of digging in, taking the heat out of the situation, and I have no issue with that - our issue is we seem to do it the shorter forms.
Exactly my point on the shorter formats.
However tests also have periods where going after the bowlers for a session ca be the difference, and we rarely do that either.
As I say, separate coach for ODI and T20, separate central contracts, separate selectors. Lets start treating it as the same difference as rugby and rugby 7's and pick players who are the best for that format. By giving ODI/T20 central contracts we can put pressure on those players and their counties to get them exposure in the IPL, Big Bash, etc and try to develop players who have experience in those conditions rather than a team of identikit back foot batsmen and medium-fast swing bowlers.
The first thing to do is build the short format team around Buttler, he's a genuine world class talent in those formats and the game plan/setup should be about giving him the time and opportunity to break teams, like Maxwell did for Australia the other day.
You might possibly get the players to an IPL franchise, but they would struggle at present to get any of them game time. From memory Morgan didn't play that much recently.
It is also worth noting that Maxwell didn't do that much when he was over here recently.
I think we are a little bit hampered by our structure - if you started from scratch you wouldn't have this number of first class counties. Many of them are also redeveloping grounds, and bidding for tests. I think we spread ourselves too thinly to be honest. The 2 division structure has helped, but only in so much that the first division is a lot more competitive than the second. Those that get promoted tend to go straight back down again. I genuinely think we should have gone down the franchise route for T20 stuff, but again counties would be reluctant to go for this.
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"We prepared well. We covered the right stuff, but we haven't played well. We have to take that."
No Peter you clearly haven't prepared well and covered the right stuff. That's why we bombed massively. The bowling unit is completely wrong, the batting should be ok. You don't change your team on the eve of the tournament.
He might as well have said "we go again"
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Disappointing as I expected better.
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A Test match sometimes dictates a period of digging in, taking the heat out of the situation, and I have no issue with that - our issue is we seem to do it the shorter forms.
Exactly my point on the shorter formats.
However tests also have periods where going after the bowlers for a session ca be the difference, and we rarely do that either.
As I say, separate coach for ODI and T20, separate central contracts, separate selectors. Lets start treating it as the same difference as rugby and rugby 7's and pick players who are the best for that format. By giving ODI/T20 central contracts we can put pressure on those players and their counties to get them exposure in the IPL, Big Bash, etc and try to develop players who have experience in those conditions rather than a team of identikit back foot batsmen and medium-fast swing bowlers.
The first thing to do is build the short format team around Buttler, he's a genuine world class talent in those formats and the game plan/setup should be about giving him the time and opportunity to break teams, like Maxwell did for Australia the other day.
You might possibly get the players to an IPL franchise, but they would struggle at present to get any of them game time. From memory Morgan didn't play that much recently.
It is also worth noting that Maxwell didn't do that much when he was over here recently.
I think we are a little bit hampered by our structure - if you started from scratch you wouldn't have this number of first class counties. Many of them are also redeveloping grounds, and bidding for tests. I think we spread ourselves too thinly to be honest. The 2 division structure has helped, but only in so much that the first division is a lot more competitive than the second. Those that get promoted tend to go straight back down again. I genuinely think we should have gone down the franchise route for T20 stuff, but again counties would be reluctant to go for this.
I agree that a franchise model would've been much better.
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As said above our issues in ODI cricket are the same as we have in Tests. Let's not assume we're a good Test side, because we beat India last summer. I can see us getting hammered by NZ and Australia this summer. We have some good players but the culture is all wrong.
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As said above our issues in ODI cricket are the same as we have in Tests. Let's not assume we're a good Test side, because we beat India last summer. I can see us getting hammered by NZ and Australia this summer. We have some good players but the culture is all wrong.
That's pretty much as I see it. Moores is a poor coach. We need a no-nonsense disciplinarian coach before we suffer even greater humiliation
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As said above our issues in ODI cricket are the same as we have in Tests. Let's not assume we're a good Test side, because we beat India last summer. I can see us getting hammered by NZ and Australia this summer. We have some good players but the culture is all wrong.
Not so sure Paul. I think we are OK in tests, particularly at home and if the ball is moving around. Whether OK will be good enough against Australia, we'll have to wait and see.
I thought Rob Key made a very good point after the game. He said that had Hales been facing an attack of that quality playing for Notts at Trent Bridge, he would have been hitting them to all parts of the ground. For some reason, when they come into the England set up, they go into their shell and don't play their natural game.
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There are calls in this part of the world (mainly across the ditch) for England to join the minor nations and have to qualify for future World Cups. With the same set up and attitude I doubt England would even qualify.
I did point out to the NZers who laughed today that they lost their last one say series v Bangladesh 4-0.
Anyway, congratulations to Bangladesh, who outplayed England in a winner takes all match.
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Yet again we have failed at a major tournament. No doubt the inquests will be long and detailed but the simple fact remains that, in one day cricket, outside of the UK we are very poor. We invented the one day game and have not evolved. We have not won a knock out game in CWC since 1992 when we reached the final. That is a truly pathetic statistic.
We need our top players playing in the IPL. T20 techniques and tactics are now being played in the 50 over game yet we seem to refuse to acknowledge that they are even linked. To do this the ECB must give up on the spring home test series which is generally poorly attended anyway. Victory in a World Cup would boost the ECB's coffers more than a few test series against the likes of Pakistan, New Zealand or the West Indies.
We badly need a new, innovative coach. Someone who can work on techniques and also on the mental side of the game. Rob Key said that Alex Hales would have faced an attack similar to the Bangladesh attack several times on the county circuit and invariably dominates them. Yet stick him in an England shirt and he fails. There is something deeply ingrained in the dressing room that forces players back into their shell. You would assume that this is a fear of failure because most of this group are good players, not world class but good solid players.
So where do we go from here? I reckon Moores is safe until after the Ashes. I think he should go but don't think he will. What we should do is get a one day coach who is well versed in T20 and IPL/BBL. Someone like Steven Fleming or Tom Moody who probably don't want to commit to a full time England role but would work with the one day sides.
Bell, Bopara, Anderson, Broad and Finn should go. We need a young and hungry squad that are not held back by the fear of failure playing with freedom under a new coach.
The next CWC is in England. Let's start planning for it right now. Be bold ECB and for once get the right man!
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Good post VFL.
New Zealand have vastly improved in one dayers since the introduction of T20 and having specialist short form players, a lot of whom don't play test matches. England need to adopt this same approach.
India showed today how to chase a total of around 260 without breaking sweat.
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I think we need a free thinking coach rather than a disciplinarian. We are too reliant on a rigid structure and that's part of the problem. I agree that Anderson, Broad, Bopara and Bell should go now as we need to move on. I wouldn't abandon Finn yet though, because he's still pretty young. However, that is on the condition that he goes away and gets his pace up again. We need some bowlers with genuine pace.
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Good post VFL.
New Zealand have vastly improved in one dayers since the introduction of T20 and having specialist short form players, a lot of whom don't play test matches. England need to adopt this same approach.
India showed today how to chase a total of around 260 without breaking sweat.
They did. Then again they're a top one day side but a poor test side, almost like England in reverse. We all prefer tests - maybe that's at the root of the problem - but even so we want England to do well in the shorter formats.
It's pathetic that we've had our best ever preparation for a CWC and still fail miserably.
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I also don't think a country with the resources of England should only be able to focus on one form of the game. It doesn't matter whether we view Tests as more important, we should be able to compete at both. Australia are an excellent Test and ODI side, NZ are that as well now and so are South Africa. The best teams tend to be good in all formats. India are the slight exception, but they're a bit of an isolated case.
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One comment from Moores this tournament sums up where we are.
When asked a question about the teams performance he gave some corporate bulshit speak and ended with "we'll review the stats."
That's the problem, no feel for the game, playing via spreadsheet on the probables. The Aussies have just shown pity today, that's worse.
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I thought Freddie Coleman played a very mature innings for the Scots today, albeit in a losing cause. Looks a good prospect for the Bears.
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Yes, it was good to see Coleman have a decent knock today. Along with Hain,it shows we have some good young Bears coming through.
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Yet again we have failed at a major tournament. No doubt the inquests will be long and detailed but the simple fact remains that, in one day cricket, outside of the UK we are very poor. We invented the one day game and have not evolved. We have not won a knock out game in CWC since 1992 when we reached the final. That is a truly pathetic statistic.
We need our top players playing in the IPL. T20 techniques and tactics are now being played in the 50 over game yet we seem to refuse to acknowledge that they are even linked. To do this the ECB must give up on the spring home test series which is generally poorly attended anyway. Victory in a World Cup would boost the ECB's coffers more than a few test series against the likes of Pakistan, New Zealand or the West Indies.
We badly need a new, innovative coach. Someone who can work on techniques and also on the mental side of the game. Rob Key said that Alex Hales would have faced an attack similar to the Bangladesh attack several times on the county circuit and invariably dominates them. Yet stick him in an England shirt and he fails. There is something deeply ingrained in the dressing room that forces players back into their shell. You would assume that this is a fear of failure because most of this group are good players, not world class but good solid players.
So where do we go from here? I reckon Moores is safe until after the Ashes. I think he should go but don't think he will. What we should do is get a one day coach who is well versed in T20 and IPL/BBL. Someone like Steven Fleming or Tom Moody who probably don't want to commit to a full time England role but would work with the one day sides.
Bell, Bopara, Anderson, Broad and Finn should go. We need a young and hungry squad that are not held back by the fear of failure playing with freedom under a new coach.
The next CWC is in England. Let's start planning for it right now. Be bold ECB and for once get the right man!
Agree with a lot of that VFL. Moores and the players should be apportioned their share of the blame, but let's face it, this is not a new problem. We have not been competitive in limited overs international cricket since the early 90's and we are currently way behind the times. We've got some good ODI series coming up in the summer and what I want to see is something resembling a plan in terms of players and approach.
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Yet again we have failed at a major tournament. No doubt the inquests will be long and detailed but the simple fact remains that, in one day cricket, outside of the UK we are very poor. We invented the one day game and have not evolved. We have not won a knock out game in CWC since 1992 when we reached the final. That is a truly pathetic statistic.
We need our top players playing in the IPL. T20 techniques and tactics are now being played in the 50 over game yet we seem to refuse to acknowledge that they are even linked. To do this the ECB must give up on the spring home test series which is generally poorly attended anyway. Victory in a World Cup would boost the ECB's coffers more than a few test series against the likes of Pakistan, New Zealand or the West Indies.
We badly need a new, innovative coach. Someone who can work on techniques and also on the mental side of the game. Rob Key said that Alex Hales would have faced an attack similar to the Bangladesh attack several times on the county circuit and invariably dominates them. Yet stick him in an England shirt and he fails. There is something deeply ingrained in the dressing room that forces players back into their shell. You would assume that this is a fear of failure because most of this group are good players, not world class but good solid players.
So where do we go from here? I reckon Moores is safe until after the Ashes. I think he should go but don't think he will. What we should do is get a one day coach who is well versed in T20 and IPL/BBL. Someone like Steven Fleming or Tom Moody who probably don't want to commit to a full time England role but would work with the one day sides.
Bell, Bopara, Anderson, Broad and Finn should go. We need a young and hungry squad that are not held back by the fear of failure playing with freedom under a new coach.
The next CWC is in England. Let's start planning for it right now. Be bold ECB and for once get the right man!
I agree, but unfortunately we're now in a situation where Team England funds the game in this country. That's why we play so many internationals.
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We need to improve our domestic 50 over and 20 over cricket, but that'll take time. I think a team moving forward should be something like -
Hales
Vince
Ali
Taylor
Root
Roy
Buttler
Stokes
Rashid
Overton
Willey
That might lack a fourth seamer, but it would be a reasonable template moving forward. Obviously if the likes of Morgan and Finn get back to their best they'd be in.
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Harsh on Woakes who I think deserves the opportunity to stay, I'd certainly have him ahead of Stokes at the moment.
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Yep totally forgot Woakes actually! So I think I'd keep Stokes in and bat him up the order and swap Woakes for Roy.
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At the moment I think that the side selected is almost secondary to the need for (a) a new innovative coach and (b) a change to the fixtures that allows our best one day players play in the likes of the IPL.
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At the moment I think that the side selected is almost secondary to the need for (a) a new innovative coach and (b) a change to the fixtures that allows our best one day players play in the likes of the IPL.
Agree again VFL. The biggest issue is sorting out the structure of the domestic season and competition formats.
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We need to improve our domestic 50 over and 20 over cricket, but that'll take time. I think a team moving forward should be something like -
Hales
Vince
Ali
Taylor
Root
Roy
Buttler
Stokes
Rashid
Overton
Willey
That might lack a fourth seamer, but it would be a reasonable template moving forward. Obviously if the likes of Morgan and Finn get back to their best they'd be in.
I think Root is a bit too slow to be batting at 5 and Buttler is too far down at 7. Someone made a good point on Talksport yesterday, saying that the likes of McCullum and DeVilliers no longer keep wicket and are used only as batsmen. Maybe we should do that with Buttler and have someone like the kid Billings from Kent keeping wicket.
It would help massively of course if Morgan, Stokes, Jordan and Finn could get back to top form. It's not going to happen, but having Pietersen at three would also strengthen the side massively.
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We need to improve our domestic 50 over and 20 over cricket, but that'll take time. I think a team moving forward should be something like -
Hales
Vince
Ali
Taylor
Root
Roy
Buttler
Stokes
Rashid
Overton
Willey
That might lack a fourth seamer, but it would be a reasonable template moving forward. Obviously if the likes of Morgan and Finn get back to their best they'd be in.
I think Root is a bit too slow to be batting at 5 and Buttler is too far down at 7. Someone made a good point on Talksport yesterday, saying that the likes of McCullum and DeVilliers no longer keep wicket and are used only as batsmen. Maybe we should do that with Buttler and have someone like the kid Billings from Kent keeping wicket.
It would help massively of course if Morgan, Stokes, Jordan and Finn could get back to top form. It's not going to happen, but having Pietersen at three would also strengthen the side massively.
I think Stokes would find top form if we put him up the order. I get the impression that he thrives on responsibility and would be a devestating bat if he was given time to get in. Morgan can get his form back, if he stops crouching too much at the crease. That's always the signal that he's out of form. Jordan needs to go back to trying to bowl fast and hostile and same for Finn. It's critical that Finn gets his pace back.
The difference with Buttler and De Villiers and McCullum is that he's at the start of his career. So I think it's good for him to keep at the moment as well. I think we need to be a lot more flexible with our batting line up anyway, so say we're only one wicket down after 20-25 overs then maybe send Buttler up the order.
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We need to improve our domestic 50 over and 20 over cricket, but that'll take time. I think a team moving forward should be something like -
Hales
Vince
Ali
Taylor
Root
Roy
Buttler
Stokes
Rashid
Overton
Willey
That might lack a fourth seamer, but it would be a reasonable template moving forward. Obviously if the likes of Morgan and Finn get back to their best they'd be in.
I think Root is a bit too slow to be batting at 5 and Buttler is too far down at 7. Someone made a good point on Talksport yesterday, saying that the likes of McCullum and DeVilliers no longer keep wicket and are used only as batsmen. Maybe we should do that with Buttler and have someone like the kid Billings from Kent keeping wicket.
It would help massively of course if Morgan, Stokes, Jordan and Finn could get back to top form. It's not going to happen, but having Pietersen at three would also strengthen the side massively.
I think Stokes would find top form if we put him up the order. I get the impression that he thrives on responsibility and would be a devestating bat if he was given time to get in. Morgan can get his form back, if he stops crouching too much at the crease. That's always the signal that he's out of form. Jordan needs to go back to trying to bowl fast and hostile and same for Finn. It's critical that Finn gets his pace back.
The difference with Buttler and De Villiers and McCullum is that he's at the start of his career. So I think it's good for him to keep at the moment as well. I think we need to be a lot more flexible with our batting line up anyway, so say we're only one wicket down after 20-25 overs then maybe send Buttler up the order.
Of that there is no doubt. I go back to the Scotland game when we lost our first wicket with 170 on the board and 30 odd overs gone. Did we send in Taylor, Morgan or Buttler to build on the momentum? No, we sent in Ballance who scratched around for a few overs and the momentum was totally lost and pressure was created on those coming in next.
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We've made that mistake loads of times, that scotland game I'd have had Taylor in at 3 and then Buttler in at 4, would've set them 360+
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Seems we have found our level.......Afghanistan 93-6
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They've been off for rain so Mr Duckworth and Mr Lewis have put their heads together and set us 101 off 25 overs.
Alex Hales dropped off the third ball of the first over.
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Nice to see England aren't bothering to be flexible with the batting order.
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We're going to win this comfortably, but we could have used this game to make a statement for a more positive approach in future. We haven't done that we've just plodded along.
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"Jonathan Trott should bat at number three in the Test team, he's played better over a longer period than Gary Ballance. He needs to get back into the team in his own position. It will be a big thing for him."
Completely disagree with Boycott there.
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Nice for Bell to get a fifty in what should be his last one-day innings for England.
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I'm hoping Jordan can get back to bowling quick and aggressive rather than the line and length bowler he's been coached into. He's definitely got wicket taking ability, he's an excellent fielder and a pretty good bat too. He's worth perservering with.
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Nice for Bell to get a fifty in what should be his last one-day innings for England.
Being a Warwickshire fan and a fan of Ian Bell, I can't help but think some of the criticism of him in the last few days has been a bit harsh. Yes he hasn't gone on to make big scores, but he has scored 50's in the last three innings which others haven't done.
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"Jonathan Trott should bat at number three in the Test team, he's played better over a longer period than Gary Ballance. He needs to get back into the team in his own position. It will be a big thing for him."
Completely disagree with Boycott there.
I disagree as well. Ballance looked comfortable at three last summer and I don't think he should be changed. Being totally selfish, I'd like Trotty have a full summer at Edgbaston, but if he is going to come back then I would consider playing him as an opener with Cook.
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I'm hoping Jordan can get back to bowling quick and aggressive rather than the line and length bowler he's been coached into. He's definitely got wicket taking ability, he's an excellent fielder and a pretty good bat too. He's worth perservering with.
I think it's part of the problem Paul. Young bowlers come into the international fold and it seems that the coaching set up want to change everything about them. Look at what has happened to Finn.
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Nice for Bell to get a fifty in what should be his last one-day innings for England.
Being a Warwickshire fan and a fan of Ian Bell, I can't help but think some of the criticism of him in the last few days has been a bit harsh. Yes he hasn't gone on to make big scores, but he has scored 50's in the last three innings which others haven't done.
The more I think on it the more I'm coming round to thinking that we can't drop him. If Morgan were in form then it'd be ok but with Morgan struggling to deserve his place (even before being made captain) I'd be tempted to make Bell captain for the next year with the plan being to move that on to someone else once the new ethos is in place. As harsh as it may sound the critical requirement is to get Broad and Anderson out of the way as I'm utterly convinced that they are the root of a lot of the problems.
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Problem with Bell is that in modern ODIs it's not good enough getting scores of 50/60 at a strike rate of 77. You either have to go on and regularly get centuries at a strike rate of at least 100 or you get 50/60 at a strike rate of about 130. Bell doesn't go on anywhere near often enough to make up his strike rate.
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I'm hoping Jordan can get back to bowling quick and aggressive rather than the line and length bowler he's been coached into. He's definitely got wicket taking ability, he's an excellent fielder and a pretty good bat too. He's worth perservering with.
I think it's part of the problem Paul. Young bowlers come into the international fold and it seems that the coaching set up want to change everything about them. Look at what has happened to Finn.
Yep the philsophy in England seems to be to coach every bowler into being essentially the same thing, which is a medium pace line and length bowler.
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I really think it's time to draw a line under Broad, Anderson and Bell in ODI cricket. Basically if you're too old to be at the next World Cup then time's up. We need a bold, proactive and exciting team moving forward. We also need the current structure of cricket in England to be looked at.
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Nice for Bell to get a fifty in what should be his last one-day innings for England.
Being a Warwickshire fan and a fan of Ian Bell, I can't help but think some of the criticism of him in the last few days has been a bit harsh. Yes he hasn't gone on to make big scores, but he has scored 50's in the last three innings which others haven't done.
The more I think on it the more I'm coming round to thinking that we can't drop him. If Morgan were in form then it'd be ok but with Morgan struggling to deserve his place (even before being made captain) I'd be tempted to make Bell captain for the next year with the plan being to move that on to someone else once the new ethos is in place. As harsh as it may sound the critical requirement is to get Broad and Anderson out of the way as I'm utterly convinced that they are the root of a lot of the problems.
I'm with you on Broad and Anderson.
Bias aside, Ian Bell would make a great one day captain. I recall he led the Bears in a one day Lords final a few seasons ago. The opponents were Somerset who had a strong side and were well led by Marcus Trescothick. Bell completely out thought Trescothick with imaginative field placings and well-timed bowling changes. Trescothick was made to look a poor captain as the Bears won well.
I do think his day has passed though.
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I really think it's time to draw a line under Broad, Anderson and Bell in ODI cricket. Basically if you're too old to be at the next World Cup then time's up. We need a bold, proactive and exciting team moving forward. We also need the current structure of cricket in England to be looked at.
Agree. I would like to see the limited overs game separated from the test game with a different coaching set up, so that players are stepping into a totally different environment. Keep it uncomplicated and let the players go out and play. I think the captaincy has been a burden on Morgan and would look at Joe Root as maybe the man to take it forward.
The structure of the domestic game definitely has to be looked at. I think 18 counties is too many for domestic limited overs competitions as the quality isn't really there to make it a competitive and productive breeding ground. I'd keep the county championship as it is (though it might be worth considering a loan system with centrally contracted players to ensure they play in the top division), but would completely change the limited over competitions. Ten city teams (2 in London, Southampton, Bristol, Cardiff, Birmingham, Nottingham, Leeds, Manchester and Newcastle) playing out of the international grounds, in much shorter and compact tournaments with the international players playing in them.
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Nice for Bell to get a fifty in what should be his last one-day innings for England.
Being a Warwickshire fan and a fan of Ian Bell, I can't help but think some of the criticism of him in the last few days has been a bit harsh. Yes he hasn't gone on to make big scores, but he has scored 50's in the last three innings which others haven't done.
The more I think on it the more I'm coming round to thinking that we can't drop him. If Morgan were in form then it'd be ok but with Morgan struggling to deserve his place (even before being made captain) I'd be tempted to make Bell captain for the next year with the plan being to move that on to someone else once the new ethos is in place. As harsh as it may sound the critical requirement is to get Broad and Anderson out of the way as I'm utterly convinced that they are the root of a lot of the problems.
I'm with you on Broad and Anderson.
Bias aside, Ian Bell would make a great one day captain. I recall he led the Bears in a one day Lords final a few seasons ago. The opponents were Somerset who had a strong side and were well led by Marcus Trescothick. Bell completely out thought Trescothick with imaginative field placings and well-timed bowling changes. Trescothick was made to look a poor captain as the Bears won well.
I do think his day has passed though.
I absolutely agree, I just think you need a small handover period where there's someone there who's in form, has experience and has captain credentials. I don't think there's anyone else who is all 3 for now, which puts pressure on Morgan and he's wilted under it. For Bell he always seems to thrive under pressure, it's generally when he plays at his best. The other thing is that I think Bell is well capable at scoring faster, for some reason he plays within himself in ODIs, a mentality change at the highest level would hopefully address that.
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Nice for Bell to get a fifty in what should be his last one-day innings for England.
Being a Warwickshire fan and a fan of Ian Bell, I can't help but think some of the criticism of him in the last few days has been a bit harsh. Yes he hasn't gone on to make big scores, but he has scored 50's in the last three innings which others haven't done.
The more I think on it the more I'm coming round to thinking that we can't drop him. If Morgan were in form then it'd be ok but with Morgan struggling to deserve his place (even before being made captain) I'd be tempted to make Bell captain for the next year with the plan being to move that on to someone else once the new ethos is in place. As harsh as it may sound the critical requirement is to get Broad and Anderson out of the way as I'm utterly convinced that they are the root of a lot of the problems.
I'm with you on Broad and Anderson.
Bias aside, Ian Bell would make a great one day captain. I recall he led the Bears in a one day Lords final a few seasons ago. The opponents were Somerset who had a strong side and were well led by Marcus Trescothick. Bell completely out thought Trescothick with imaginative field placings and well-timed bowling changes. Trescothick was made to look a poor captain as the Bears won well.
I do think his day has passed though.
I absolutely agree, I just think you need a small handover period where there's someone there who's in form, has experience and has captain credentials. I don't think there's anyone else who is all 3 for now, which puts pressure on Morgan and he's wilted under it. For Bell he always seems to thrive under pressure, it's generally when he plays at his best. The other thing is that I think Bell is well capable at scoring faster, for some reason he plays within himself in ODIs, a mentality change at the highest level would hopefully address that.
Totally agree. He is more than capable of going over the field, yet seems more and more reticent to do it recently. I find it quite laughable really that some of those criticising him (Hussain, Strauss, Atherton) were criticised themselves for exactly the same thing when they played.
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Nice for Bell to get a fifty in what should be his last one-day innings for England.
Being a Warwickshire fan and a fan of Ian Bell, I can't help but think some of the criticism of him in the last few days has been a bit harsh. Yes he hasn't gone on to make big scores, but he has scored 50's in the last three innings which others haven't done.
The more I think on it the more I'm coming round to thinking that we can't drop him. If Morgan were in form then it'd be ok but with Morgan struggling to deserve his place (even before being made captain) I'd be tempted to make Bell captain for the next year with the plan being to move that on to someone else once the new ethos is in place. As harsh as it may sound the critical requirement is to get Broad and Anderson out of the way as I'm utterly convinced that they are the root of a lot of the problems.
On reflection, I think that is probably a sound plan. I hope to see the team for the next ODI looking something like:
Bell (c), Hales, Taylor, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Stokes, Woakes, Jordan, Tredwell, Finn
I think that would be enough of a change whilst also maintaining a little bit of stability. Importantly, it would also give us a foundation to build on over the next few years. Going forward, I'd like to see Root maybe take over Bell's role with a more explosive hitter coming in at four and I would like to see Adil Rashid given a chance as the spinning option.
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Nice for Bell to get a fifty in what should be his last one-day innings for England.
Being a Warwickshire fan and a fan of Ian Bell, I can't help but think some of the criticism of him in the last few days has been a bit harsh. Yes he hasn't gone on to make big scores, but he has scored 50's in the last three innings which others haven't done.
The more I think on it the more I'm coming round to thinking that we can't drop him. If Morgan were in form then it'd be ok but with Morgan struggling to deserve his place (even before being made captain) I'd be tempted to make Bell captain for the next year with the plan being to move that on to someone else once the new ethos is in place. As harsh as it may sound the critical requirement is to get Broad and Anderson out of the way as I'm utterly convinced that they are the root of a lot of the problems.
On reflection, I think that is probably a sound plan. I hope to see the team for the next ODI looking something like:
Bell (c), Hales, Taylor, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Stokes, Woakes, Jordan, Tredwell, Finn
I think that would be enough of a change whilst also maintaining a little bit of stability. Importantly, it would also give us a foundation to build on over the next few years. Going forward, I'd like to see Root maybe take over Bell's role with a more explosive hitter coming in at four and I would like to see Adil Rashid given a chance as the spinning option.
I wonder if they will give Root the one day captaincy as an apprenticeship to his eventual elevation to test captain?
Athers in The Times suggests that of the current squad only Tredwell and Bopara are likely to be left out. The old guard are safe because of a refocus towards test cricket.
As the past few months has been dominated by one day cricket - and what a waste of time that has been - the next few months are dominated by test cricket. We play 17 tests between April and January against the West Indies, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa.
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Nice for Bell to get a fifty in what should be his last one-day innings for England.
Being a Warwickshire fan and a fan of Ian Bell, I can't help but think some of the criticism of him in the last few days has been a bit harsh. Yes he hasn't gone on to make big scores, but he has scored 50's in the last three innings which others haven't done.
The more I think on it the more I'm coming round to thinking that we can't drop him. If Morgan were in form then it'd be ok but with Morgan struggling to deserve his place (even before being made captain) I'd be tempted to make Bell captain for the next year with the plan being to move that on to someone else once the new ethos is in place. As harsh as it may sound the critical requirement is to get Broad and Anderson out of the way as I'm utterly convinced that they are the root of a lot of the problems.
On reflection, I think that is probably a sound plan. I hope to see the team for the next ODI looking something like:
Bell (c), Hales, Taylor, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Stokes, Woakes, Jordan, Tredwell, Finn
I think that would be enough of a change whilst also maintaining a little bit of stability. Importantly, it would also give us a foundation to build on over the next few years. Going forward, I'd like to see Root maybe take over Bell's role with a more explosive hitter coming in at four and I would like to see Adil Rashid given a chance as the spinning option.
I wonder if they will give Root the one day captaincy as an apprenticeship to his eventual elevation to test captain?
Athers in The Times suggests that of the current squad only Tredwell and Bopara are likely to be left out. The old guard are safe because of a refocus towards test cricket.
As the past few months has been dominated by one day cricket - and what a waste of time that has been - the next few months are dominated by test cricket. We play 17 tests between April and January against the West Indies, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa.
It would be a good idea, as it would also add a different dynamic. The amount of test cricket we will be playing over the next year means there is an opportunity to split the two and look at some new players in ODIs. We realistically could only be looking at 3 or 4 test players featuring in the one day team going forward anyway (Root, Buttler, Woakes).
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I've just been reading that Martin Crowe who was one of my favourite players is very ill with cancer.
Good luck fella I hope you beat it.
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Don't think sadly he will it's terminal now.
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After reading Collingwood's column on Sky I'm inclined to think Jordan is the way forward. He makes a good point that Jordan can contribute in all areas of the game. I think, if we can get him back to being confident, he'll be an excellent player for us.
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After reading Collingwood's column on Sky I'm inclined to think Jordan is the way forward. He makes a good point that Jordan can contribute in all areas of the game. I think, if we can get him back to being confident, he'll be an excellent player for us.
I think Jordan is one who has suffered from the coaches meddling too much with his action. He's got a strange run up and he can be a little wayward, but he bowls quick and has a habit of taking wickets. I think the attitude of the set up has to change to one that accepts that players aren't perfect and instead of trying to change them, concentrate on what they do well.
Collingwood would be a good shout for someone who could take over the limited overs team. Paul Farbrace had success with Sri Lanka, so could also step in.
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Focusing on what players don't do is a very English attitude that's prevalent across most sports, it means we get lots of players who are decent at everything but very few who are exceptional at something.
Jordan has definitely been badly coached, the coaching should have been focused on increasing his pace, getting him from 88-90mph to a regular 92-94mph instead they've tried to reign him in and work on accuracy and he's dropped down to 84-86 just like our other 'quicks' and it's made him easier to pick.
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I agree he has potential to be a properly quick, wicket taking bowler.
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Sounds like Saker is leaving.
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The point about Jordan's drop in place is really an indictment of our whole system.
When you look at Johnson and Starc bowling regularly between 92 and 95 mph, bowlers like Steyn, and even a Bangladesh bowler being quicker than all of our seamers, then what the fuck is going on here?
We have 18 counties in our domestic system. Is there really not one bowler in the country that can bowl genuinely quickly?
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You can't drop Bell from the OD team. He's having to hold it back because he knows we have an underperforming middle order. If he goes for a big bash and gets out early we'll be out for about 150
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The point about Jordan's drop in place is really an indictment of our whole system.
When you look at Johnson and Starc bowling regularly between 92 and 95 mph, bowlers like Steyn, and even a Bangladesh bowler being quicker than all of our seamers, then what the fuck is going on here?
We have 18 counties in our domestic system. Is there really not one bowler in the country that can bowl genuinely quickly?
It's all about English conditions making it easy for medium pace bowlers. We need to find players who are prepared to go that extra yard and bowl short sharp spells of fast bowling. It's also up to the coaches. We place far too much emphasis on bowling economically rather than taking wickets.
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You can't drop Bell from the OD team. He's having to hold it back because he knows we have an underperforming middle order. If he goes for a big bash and gets out early we'll be out for about 150
That might be a plausible argument if he'd played 20 ODIs. But he's had a long career and he's had a consistently low strike rate and a terrible conversion rate from 50 to 100. That's the one combination you can't have in ODIs. You either have to score quickly or you have to score centuries. Preferably you can do both, but it's critical you do at least one element of those. He's a classy player, but he's not an ODI player.
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Bell's issues are around pacing. If he starts quick he can score at a good rate but if he tries to accelerate mid innings he tends to snatch at things that aren't really on.
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Yep and given his level of experience he really should have worked out a method to address that.
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Yep and given his level of experience he really should have worked out a method to address that.
Yes, but given it's, in real terms, the difference between him being very good and world class I can live with that limitation, it's less of a problem than many others in the squad have.
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I just think given that we should be looking at the next World Cup now(like NZ did four years ago) Bell doesn't offer enough to continue. I think at his age he'd have to offer an awful lot to keep him in the side. He doesn't have a good strike rate, average or conversion rate. He's a quality Test player, but the ODI team needs to move on. The same applies to Anderson.
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I just think given that we should be looking at the next World Cup now(like NZ did four years ago) Bell doesn't offer enough to continue. I think at his age he'd have to offer an awful lot to keep him in the side. He doesn't have a good strike rate, average or conversion rate. He's a quality Test player, but the ODI team needs to move on. The same applies to Anderson.
I agree on the goal but not on the execution. As Villa fans we've seen full well what happens if you remove all the experience and try to rely on youngsters as a 'clean cut' you tend to have a lot of problems. Keeping a couple of the more experienced guys around and transitioning them out in 18 months is the approach for me. Of the older players who need to go thge only one who isn't holding the team back is Bell, so he's the one I'd keep for definite, then you're looking at 1 of jimmy, broad, tredwell and bopara and I'm really not sure about any of them but Tredwell would probably be my choice, Broad and Jimmy are needed in the test side and I don't think they can handle being in both formats and I just don't rate Bopara.
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I'd argue Bell holds back an opening partnership of Ali and Hales, and if you keep him in the team he has to be number three and then that messes Taylor about. Like I said I just don't think he offers enough unless he wants to be 12th man in and around the squad who plays if someone is unavailable. Tredwell, I agree, still has a role.
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I'd argue Bell holds back an opening partnership of Ali and Hales, and if you keep him in the team he has to be number three and then that messes Taylor about. Like I said I just don't think he offers enough unless he wants to be 12th man in and around the squad who plays if someone is unavailable. Tredwell, I agree, still has a role.
I guess fundamentally I'm not as convinced by Taylor as you are, I still think he has a lot to prove. Hales and Ali both going out strong with Bell to come in and steady the ship if one goes down early seems fair, if they get to 15-20overs in then you look at bringing Taylor or Root up the order and keep the pressure on in the middle overs. That's the sort of tactical flexibility I'd like to see.
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The point about Jordan's drop in place is really an indictment of our whole system.
When you look at Johnson and Starc bowling regularly between 92 and 95 mph, bowlers like Steyn, and even a Bangladesh bowler being quicker than all of our seamers, then what the fuck is going on here?
We have 18 counties in our domestic system. Is there really not one bowler in the country that can bowl genuinely quickly?
It's all about English conditions making it easy for medium pace bowlers. We need to find players who are prepared to go that extra yard and bowl short sharp spells of fast bowling. It's also up to the coaches. We place far too much emphasis on bowling economically rather than taking wickets.
I think that starts from a young age in this country and I honestly think it's why we haven't produced a genuinely fast bowler for years. Take Mitchell Johnson as an example - that action would have been coached out him over here as soon as he went to a club at an early age. We still seem far too obsessed with correct technique in this country at every level.
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I just think given that we should be looking at the next World Cup now(like NZ did four years ago) Bell doesn't offer enough to continue. I think at his age he'd have to offer an awful lot to keep him in the side. He doesn't have a good strike rate, average or conversion rate. He's a quality Test player, but the ODI team needs to move on. The same applies to Anderson.
I agree on the goal but not on the execution. As Villa fans we've seen full well what happens if you remove all the experience and try to rely on youngsters as a 'clean cut' you tend to have a lot of problems. Keeping a couple of the more experienced guys around and transitioning them out in 18 months is the approach for me. Of the older players who need to go thge only one who isn't holding the team back is Bell, so he's the one I'd keep for definite, then you're looking at 1 of jimmy, broad, tredwell and bopara and I'm really not sure about any of them but Tredwell would probably be my choice, Broad and Jimmy are needed in the test side and I don't think they can handle being in both formats and I just don't rate Bopara.
True Paul, but Villa have had the threat of relegation which hasn't helped. We haven't got that pressure with the England cricket side and if the test team is going well, there is even less pressure really. What I would really like to see is some consistency in tactics and selection. I'd like to see young players coming in given a series in their best position to prove themselves and not moved around the order or being dropped after one poor performance.
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I'd argue Bell holds back an opening partnership of Ali and Hales, and if you keep him in the team he has to be number three and then that messes Taylor about. Like I said I just don't think he offers enough unless he wants to be 12th man in and around the squad who plays if someone is unavailable. Tredwell, I agree, still has a role.
See, I'm still not convinced about Ali as an opener. Hales has to be given a proper chance and I'd like to see Roy or Vince come in to partner him. Other options could be Carberry or Lumb, but maybe we have moved on from them now. Again, we have moved on and it's not going to happen, but the game changer for me would be having Pietersen at three, as he is a player who can score big and accelerate when he needs to. You could then have Taylor, Morgan and Buttler who could interchange when necessary. We really could do with Ben Stokes developing into a world class all-rounder and then you'd be into the bowlers. I really hope to see Adil Rashid get a chance at some point this summer as well.
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Ahead of the quarter finals, some interesting facts and a few theories about the dominance of the batsmen:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31918800
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Trott recalled to England Test squad (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31942514)
Yorkshire need to find half a team for next season.
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Trott recalled to England Test squad (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31942514)
Yorkshire need to find half a team for next season.
It's all a conspiracy so you lot don't win the county championship again. We'll soon have your coach too.
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Just seen Richard Pyrah tweet that Adam Lyth was in tears of joy when he heard he was in the squad.
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I'm glad to see Rashid get a call up and Lyth has earned a shot. Disappointed to see Moeen miss out, but hopefully he'll be back once he's fit. I find it absolutely insane that they still refuse to pick Taylor in a Test squad. He's a quality player and doesn't get the recognition he deserves.
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It's good to see Finn is gutted about missing out and is determined to win his Test place back, but ultimately he has to rediscover his pace or he's finished as an international cricketer.
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"I think you saw in Australia at the World Cup the dangers of making such a big decision so close to the tournament," Cook added.
"I don't know what's gone on on that tour, but it did look like the lads were shell shocked from the first two games. That's when you need real leadership to help steer you through that. '
These comments from Cook are possibly ill advised and a bit opportunistic. Firstly slating the selectors doesn't seem too smart. Plus the decision to remove him was correct regardless of what followed.
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James Whitaker got a good going over from Pat Murphy regarding KP......
If he joins a county and gets loads of runs and we struggle against the Kiwis then it could be an interesting summer.
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What did Murphy say?
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For Warwickshire fans, well worth a watch on the Sky World Cup Channel is "Allan Donald: Cricket's Greatest" lots and lots of Bears nostalgia
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What did Murphy say?
Murphy kept on and on asking about KP and was he being talked about/considered for England
Whittaker "flat-batted" him by saying they had not talked about KP (I bet) and he "wasn't in their thoughts"
You heard Whittaker sigh several times.......
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What did Murphy say?
Murphy kept on and on asking about KP and was he being talked about/considered for England
Whittaker "flat-batted" him by saying they had not talked about KP (I bet) and he "wasn't in their thoughts"
You heard Whittaker sigh several times.......
It was a bit like the Paxman interview with Michael Howard on Newsnight!!
I don't expect too many surprises in the top five of the test batting order, but it then becomes a little less certain. I'm not sure Buttler will bat at six in tests, so who will bat there? I think Buttler, Broad and Anderson are definites, so that leaves three spots. Could Stokes bat at six? I really hope Rashid gets a go and I think they might go for Plunkett or Jordan.
I reckon the team for the first test will be:
Trott, Cook, Ballance, Bell, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Rashid, Plunkett, Broad, Anderson
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I'm dreading us playing the Kiwi's and Aussies this Summer. :-\
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And Captain Cook having a go now too. It does seem as though the hierarchy within the ECB are having to deal with a lot of childish egos or they are creating an awful lot of disgruntled employees.
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Cook coming out and saying what he has is pretty poor, it's essentially undermining the people above him.
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Stokes will bat better the higher he in the order he is, so I'd like to see him at 6. Moeen will be 6 when he comes back, but it'd be nice to see how Stokes goes.
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Cook coming out and saying what he has is pretty poor, it's essentially undermining the people above him.
Could be part of a campaign against the coach who is not all that popular.
Since Hussein and Fletcher no England captain has to my memory criticised the coach apart from Pietersen and who was the coach he slated?
We're in for a tough few months. It was wrong for Cook to say what he did on the eve of a tour. Things in that dressing room are far from right.
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'The team suffered an early exit from the World Cup at the pool stage.
Selectors have since been criticized by Alastair Cook for dropping him as one-day captain while also coming under pressure to clarify the international future of ex-player Kevin Pietersen. '
That little summary shows what a shambles English cricket is at the moment. Two things come to mind from this as well. Firstly whilst I quite like Cook, from an ECB point of view he should be dismissed as Captain now. He's completely undermined those above him and essentially challenged their authority. Secondly when Cook was asked about Pietersen coming back he mentioned his book as one of the reasons that he couldn't return. When they initially sacked Pietersen it was to 'improve the dressing room harmony' apparently. Well that has clearly done nothing for performance, so it suggests he wasn't a major factor in our problems. Therefore, given the subsequent results, they should reverse their decision and give everyone an equal opportunity to get into the squad. It's not about harmony it's about having a team that wins.
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For me, since the end of the last Ashes series Cook has looked like a beaten man. You would hope that the ECB have sensed this but the lack of a credible successor strengthens his hand and he's playing it well.
It's too soon to promote Root and would you want such a young Captain overseeing a dressing room full of splits and fractions anyway?
What a divisive mess we are in.
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For me Cook comes across as a bit of a wanker with his comments, all about his own image rather than the good of the team and I've now got a lot less respect for him than I had. If he had an ounce of self-awareness and humility he'd have withdrawn from the ODI side a year ago and given us the chance to prepare properly rather than clinging on for as long as he could and forcing them to take drastic action far too close to the start of the tournament.
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I was very surprised and disappointed by Cook's comments as well. If he genuinely believed he deserved to be in the side he's completely wrong. We've done atrociously over the last 2 years in ODI cricket. He should have kept quiet and I genuinely think they should consider removing him as Test captain now. There are a catalogue of problems with English cricket and I can't wait for the new Chairman to come in, but your Captain slating selection policy does not help.
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As Michael Vaughan said the best way for them all to put the KP thing to bed is to start winning Test matches.
However, having witnessed some of their recent displays I reckon the KP bandwagon will be up and trundling about June.
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I think they should draw a completely clean slate on every single player. We need every possible player available and it should be on form, not on who fits in best in the dressing room. The whole harmonious dressing room idea clearly hasn't worked.
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As Michael Vaughan said the best way for them all to put the KP thing to bed is to start winning Test matches.
However, having witnessed some of their recent displays I reckon the KP bandwagon will be up and trundling about June.
I can see Southee and Boult having a field day in early summer conditions here, against a batting line up vunerable to decent seamers.
If Pietersen scores a shed load in the 1st couple of months the clamour will be huge. I suppose they'll just say it's second division runs he scoring if that was the case.
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Stokes will bat better the higher he in the order he is, so I'd like to see him at 6. Moeen will be 6 when he comes back, but it'd be nice to see how Stokes goes.
Stokes has struggled so badly with the bat in his last few internationals, that batting him at 6 would be a huge call. If Rashid comes in and does well then Moeen Ali won't get back into the side.
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Stokes will bat better the higher he in the order he is, so I'd like to see him at 6. Moeen will be 6 when he comes back, but it'd be nice to see how Stokes goes.
Stokes has struggled so badly with the bat in his last few internationals, that batting him at 6 would be a huge call. If Rashid comes in and does well then Moeen Ali won't get back into the side.
I disagree with that, oeen is a decent bowling option but primarily he's a batsman and should probably be looked at as an opener before long. Moeen, Rashid and to an extent Root would finally give us genuine options with spin rather than all the slow bowling being reliant on 1 guy as has been the case for as long as I can remember. That 2 of them are genuine top order batsmen is helpful because we can still pick 3 out and out seamers and an all-rounder without having an overly long tail. The discussion about 6 is the wrong spot in my opinion, Buttler is technically good enough to bat there so, in my opinion, we're looking for an all-rounder to bat 7. If Rashid can settle him and Woakes are good enough to score decent runs at 8 and 9 at least, if 1 of them can step up we could potentially add Jordan as well, who is erratic with the bat but can score decent runs.
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Moeen's a quality player and they clearly rate him. When fit he'll be one of the first names on the team sheet. There have been very few positives in the last year or so and Ali is one of them.
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Stokes will bat better the higher he in the order he is, so I'd like to see him at 6. Moeen will be 6 when he comes back, but it'd be nice to see how Stokes goes.
Stokes has struggled so badly with the bat in his last few internationals, that batting him at 6 would be a huge call. If Rashid comes in and does well then Moeen Ali won't get back into the side.
I disagree with that, oeen is a decent bowling option but primarily he's a batsman and should probably be looked at as an opener before long. Moeen, Rashid and to an extent Root would finally give us genuine options with spin rather than all the slow bowling being reliant on 1 guy as has been the case for as long as I can remember. That 2 of them are genuine top order batsmen is helpful because we can still pick 3 out and out seamers and an all-rounder without having an overly long tail. The discussion about 6 is the wrong spot in my opinion, Buttler is technically good enough to bat there so, in my opinion, we're looking for an all-rounder to bat 7. If Rashid can settle him and Woakes are good enough to score decent runs at 8 and 9 at least, if 1 of them can step up we could potentially add Jordan as well, who is erratic with the bat but can score decent runs.
I'm not so sure. I think in the test match format, Moeen will only be in the team if he's considered the number one spin bowler. If Rashid comes in and does well, then I don't think Ali gets back in, especially in English conditions where you don't need that many spin options. Also, his perceived weakness against short pitched bowling might be a worry with the Aussies in mind.
As for the point about Buttler, they were reluctant to bat Prior at six all through his career with England and I think it could be the same with Jos. The big question is how they balance the side. The old tried and trusted 6 batsmen, wicket-keeper and four bowlers or go with the extra bowler or all-rounder and one less batsman. I think that all depends on whether Stokes really comes to the fore with bat and ball. If he finds form with the bat, he could bat at six with Rashid, Woakes, Broad and Anderson making up the bowling attack.
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I think Moeen's far from being one of the first name's on the team sheet when fit. His bowling is average at best and as for opening the innings,his weakness against the short pitched bowling he can expect the top sides will count against him
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His bowling is average? If you look at his performances in the World Cup and in the Tests last summer I don't think anyone would call that average. Ali's bowling constantly gets overlooked, because he was perceived as a part timer when he came into the side. His record since he became an international completely go against that view. Also he is a free spirit batsman, which we need. He had a problem with the short ball, but I imagine he's worked to address it.
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Mohammed Riaz is in the middle of a hostile spell against the crims. It's fascinating stuff. Pity Pakistan didn't get another 100 runs because even with 3 down I think the crims will win comfortably.
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Pakistan have played like they're on the take. Some brainless batting to get out and now two simple catches have gone down.
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You must be a Pear PaulWinch again. His bowling in ODI does not work out even at a wicket a match.As for his batting he has one good innings in about every ten. All a matter of opinion of course
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You must be a Pear PaulWinch again. His bowling in ODI does not work out even at a wicket a match.As for his batting he has one good innings in about every ten. All a matter of opinion of course
We're talking about tests not ODI so his ODI record doesn't mean anything. You're judging him on his ODI performances from the last few months. In the Test side he's been a very good bowler, his batting hasn't really settled yet but I think he deserves the chance to stake a claim.
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You must be a Pear PaulWinch again. His bowling in ODI does not work out even at a wicket a match.As for his batting he has one good innings in about every ten. All a matter of opinion of course
We're talking about tests not ODI so his ODI record doesn't mean anything. You're judging him on his ODI performances from the last few months. In the Test side he's been a very good bowler, his batting hasn't really settled yet but I think he deserves the chance to stake a claim.
Also in the World Cup he bowled pretty economically and if you're bowling the overs he does in ODIs then that's what you want.
As you say in Test cricket he has done excellently and pretty much won us the series against India. His batting talent is definitely there and as you say it's a case of settling. Ali, Ballance, Buttler, Root and to an extent Woakes are the only players to perform well on a fairly consistent basis over the last year.
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His bowling is average? If you look at his performances in the World Cup and in the Tests last summer I don't think anyone would call that average. Ali's bowling constantly gets overlooked, because he was perceived as a part timer when he came into the side. His record since he became an international completely go against that view. Also he is a free spirit batsman, which we need. He had a problem with the short ball, but I imagine he's worked to address it.
I think it is his bowling that will get him in the side. Purely as a batsman, I think there are better around on the county scene. If he can continue to bowl the way he did last summer against India then he will be in the side, with his batting being a bonus. Again, I really think it all depends on how Rashid does if he gets his chance. I've wanted to see Rashid feature for England for sometime now, as I think he is a class act with ball and bat.
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Alastair Cook is playing for the MCC against Yorkshire which starts on Sunday. The top three includes Carberry and Compton who Cook had jettisoned from the test side. That should make for some interesting between overs chats out in the middle!
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Regarding Ali,he was playing against a dreadful India side,who any cricket follower knows do not travel very well. Even England managed to thrash them.
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Regarding Ali,he was playing against a dreadful India side,who any cricket follower knows do not travel very well. Even England managed to thrash them.
It was also the best spinner performance against India outside of India for about 30 years, by any nation. That's excellent bowling and he was rightly praised for it at the time.
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Regarding Ali,he was playing against a dreadful India side,who any cricket follower knows do not travel very well. Even England managed to thrash them.
It was also the best spinner performance against India outside of India for about 30 years, by any nation. That's excellent bowling and he was rightly praised for it at the time.
Precisely it was outstanding bowling. Also I think his batting gets overlooked. He's generally asked to do a job of upping the tempo and plays unselfishly. He has the ability, his brilliant century against Sri Lanka shows that.
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Regarding Ali,he was playing against a dreadful India side,who any cricket follower knows do not travel very well. Even England managed to thrash them.
It was also the best spinner performance against India outside of India for about 30 years, by any nation. That's excellent bowling and he was rightly praised for it at the time.
Precisely it was outstanding bowling. Also I think his batting gets overlooked. He's generally asked to do a job of upping the tempo and plays unselfishly. He has the ability, his brilliant century against Sri Lanka shows that.
Yes his bowling performance against India was superb and hopefully he can build on that and become a good all-rounder. Producing top form, he could make that position at six his own, allowing four seamers to be picked as well. At the risk of repeating myself, I think Rashid will get a chance in the Carribean and if he does well, Ali might struggle to get back in
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Regarding Ali,he was playing against a dreadful India side,who any cricket follower knows do not travel very well. Even England managed to thrash them.
It was also the best spinner performance against India outside of India for about 30 years, by any nation. That's excellent bowling and he was rightly praised for it at the time.
Precisely it was outstanding bowling. Also I think his batting gets overlooked. He's generally asked to do a job of upping the tempo and plays unselfishly. He has the ability, his brilliant century against Sri Lanka shows that.
Yes his bowling performance against India was superb and hopefully he can build on that and become a good all-rounder. Producing top form, he could make that position at six his own, allowing four seamers to be picked as well. At the risk of repeating myself, I think Rashid will get a chance in the Carribean and if he does well, Ali might struggle to get back in
Given the lack of a clear opening partner for Cook I'd still like to see him get a run at the top of the order.
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Me too actually, we need a more positive approach at the top of the order. Moeen could be slightly more judicious in Test cricket, but still add some flair.
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Regarding Ali,he was playing against a dreadful India side,who any cricket follower knows do not travel very well. Even England managed to thrash them.
It was also the best spinner performance against India outside of India for about 30 years, by any nation. That's excellent bowling and he was rightly praised for it at the time.
Precisely it was outstanding bowling. Also I think his batting gets overlooked. He's generally asked to do a job of upping the tempo and plays unselfishly. He has the ability, his brilliant century against Sri Lanka shows that.
Yes his bowling performance against India was superb and hopefully he can build on that and become a good all-rounder. Producing top form, he could make that position at six his own, allowing four seamers to be picked as well. At the risk of repeating myself, I think Rashid will get a chance in the Carribean and if he does well, Ali might struggle to get back in
Given the lack of a clear opening partner for Cook I'd still like to see him get a run at the top of the order.
Ooh, I'm really not sure about that. There are still major questions about his playing of the short ball and that's not great for an opener. Besides, it looks like Trott and Lyth will be battling it out to open with Cook.
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I wonder if Cook is actually the problem.
This is essentially the same core group that Strauss led to such success yet under Cook they seem to be fractious and dispirited. Maybe Strauss had the ability to man-manage all of the personalities and certainly when you're winning it's easier but I find Cook to be not very likeable and a bit snidey. He's a bit too school prefect for my tastes.
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Ali does not deserve to be dropped, but I think we should take a look at Lyth as an opener in the Caribbean. I'd rather see a player opening in the first Ashes test who has test experience rather than a rookie.
I hope Trotty's dark days are well behind him and he once again prospers in an England shirt.
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Regarding Ali,he was playing against a dreadful India side,who any cricket follower knows do not travel very well. Even England managed to thrash them.
It was also the best spinner performance against India outside of India for about 30 years, by any nation. That's excellent bowling and he was rightly praised for it at the time.
Precisely it was outstanding bowling. Also I think his batting gets overlooked. He's generally asked to do a job of upping the tempo and plays unselfishly. He has the ability, his brilliant century against Sri Lanka shows that.
Yes his bowling performance against India was superb and hopefully he can build on that and become a good all-rounder. Producing top form, he could make that position at six his own, allowing four seamers to be picked as well. At the risk of repeating myself, I think Rashid will get a chance in the Carribean and if he does well, Ali might struggle to get back in
Given the lack of a clear opening partner for Cook I'd still like to see him get a run at the top of the order.
Ooh, I'm really not sure about that. There are still major questions about his playing of the short ball and that's not great for an opener. Besides, it looks like Trott and Lyth will be battling it out to open with Cook.
but he never had those problems at county level, this is hat I mean about settling, he needs time to adjust to the demands. His focus last summer was bowling because we needed him to be an international class spinner and he delivered. To me the changes in his bowling between the SL tests and Indian tests was so huge that it showed that he's adaptable and talented enough to make the required changes to his game. I think his batting technique and approach is solid enough that he shouldn't be written off as a top order batsman.
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Other than THAT series Cook has done very little to warrant his place in the team at test level. I'm not too sure for all his plaudits that he actually deserves them. His captaincy has been questioned at every turn and it appears that we have become starstruck because of Australia, his looks, and his lovely southern accent. He hits the odd nice 4 but I would very much question his place in the team. That he is as good as we've got at the top order says as much about our present state as anything. Or, do we need to get a coach in that simply needs to get them playing without fear?
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Regarding Ali,he was playing against a dreadful India side,who any cricket follower knows do not travel very well. Even England managed to thrash them.
It was also the best spinner performance against India outside of India for about 30 years, by any nation. That's excellent bowling and he was rightly praised for it at the time.
Precisely it was outstanding bowling. Also I think his batting gets overlooked. He's generally asked to do a job of upping the tempo and plays unselfishly. He has the ability, his brilliant century against Sri Lanka shows that.
Yes his bowling performance against India was superb and hopefully he can build on that and become a good all-rounder. Producing top form, he could make that position at six his own, allowing four seamers to be picked as well. At the risk of repeating myself, I think Rashid will get a chance in the Carribean and if he does well, Ali might struggle to get back in
Given the lack of a clear opening partner for Cook I'd still like to see him get a run at the top of the order.
Ooh, I'm really not sure about that. There are still major questions about his playing of the short ball and that's not great for an opener. Besides, it looks like Trott and Lyth will be battling it out to open with Cook.
but he never had those problems at county level, this is hat I mean about settling, he needs time to adjust to the demands. His focus last summer was bowling because we needed him to be an international class spinner and he delivered. To me the changes in his bowling between the SL tests and Indian tests was so huge that it showed that he's adaptable and talented enough to make the required changes to his game. I think his batting technique and approach is solid enough that he shouldn't be written off as a top order batsman.
If he continues his previous form then he's not far off being considered a genuine all-rounder.
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Other than THAT series Cook has done very little to warrant his place in the team at test level. I'm not too sure for all his plaudits that he actually deserves them. His captaincy has been questioned at every turn and it appears that we have become starstruck because of Australia, his looks, and his lovely southern accent. He hits the odd nice 4 but I would very much question his place in the team. That he is as good as we've got at the top order says as much about our present state as anything. Or, do we need to get a coach in that simply needs to get them playing without fear?
Cook has looked lost and the side rudderless since the end of the last Ashes series. Maybe a new coach is needed. It worked wonders for the Aussies with Lehmann and an under performing, Ashes-losing squad. He has really turned them around.
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Regarding Ali,he was playing against a dreadful India side,who any cricket follower knows do not travel very well. Even England managed to thrash them.
It was also the best spinner performance against India outside of India for about 30 years, by any nation. That's excellent bowling and he was rightly praised for it at the time.
Precisely it was outstanding bowling. Also I think his batting gets overlooked. He's generally asked to do a job of upping the tempo and plays unselfishly. He has the ability, his brilliant century against Sri Lanka shows that.
Yes his bowling performance against India was superb and hopefully he can build on that and become a good all-rounder. Producing top form, he could make that position at six his own, allowing four seamers to be picked as well. At the risk of repeating myself, I think Rashid will get a chance in the Carribean and if he does well, Ali might struggle to get back in
Given the lack of a clear opening partner for Cook I'd still like to see him get a run at the top of the order.
Ooh, I'm really not sure about that. There are still major questions about his playing of the short ball and that's not great for an opener. Besides, it looks like Trott and Lyth will be battling it out to open with Cook.
but he never had those problems at county level, this is hat I mean about settling, he needs time to adjust to the demands. His focus last summer was bowling because we needed him to be an international class spinner and he delivered. To me the changes in his bowling between the SL tests and Indian tests was so huge that it showed that he's adaptable and talented enough to make the required changes to his game. I think his batting technique and approach is solid enough that he shouldn't be written off as a top order batsman.
If he continues his previous form then he's not far off being considered a genuine all-rounder.
I'd say he is a genuine all rounder.
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Cook was a fine player, I don't want to get too revionist on this. But he's had technical issues before and addressed them. The worry is now that he doesn't appear to get out of a rut.
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He was a final test series hundred against Pakistan away from being dropped for the series in Australia that made him.
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He was a final test series hundred against Pakistan away from being dropped for the series in Australia that made him.
Strauss was the same, I think it was a series in New Zealand where he almost faced his nadir.
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More violent hitting this time from Martin Guptil. 237 off 163 balls with 137 off the last 52 balls.
The Kiwis hit 15 sixes in their innings, which is more than England scored in the entire tournament. So far the Windies have hit 16.
We are so far away from this kind of cricket and it will take years to get us anywhere near it.
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Brilliant innings by Guptill. I really hope NZ win it.
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New Zealand v India final for me
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The brilliance of NZ across all formats now puts England to shame.
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Feel like the toss will be critical in Sydney. India have bowled very well all tournament but I fancy us getting into them when they don't have the backing of a massive total; the same probably applies to them in regards to our bowling.
There are some noticeable soft spots though - Wahab brought it up last night; and our bowling was creaky against Sri Lanka, who might have even won if Chandimal hadn't hurt himself. I'd love to see a trans-Tasman final though - would be a brilliant cap on a rather good tournament.
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Other than England's nonsense tournament I haven't really got into this tournament. It's just been a blown up 20/20 with fielding restriction changes and small boundaries designed to tip the balance to bat from ball in a big way. it may be the only way to protect test match cricket in making any other format a slogfest. It also means that for us to be successful we have to jump on board the horrible 20/20 train and play in the IPL, Big Bash, and the caribbean 20/20. It will affect our season but counties are dying anyway. Cricket as we know it is dying.
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Yeah i'm not too impressed they need to redress the balance towards the bowlers again.
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Other than England's nonsense tournament I haven't really got into this tournament. It's just been a blown up 20/20 with fielding restriction changes and small boundaries designed to tip the balance to bat from ball in a big way. it may be the only way to protect test match cricket in making any other format a slogfest. It also means that for us to be successful we have to jump on board the horrible 20/20 train and play in the IPL, Big Bash, and the caribbean 20/20. It will affect our season but counties are dying anyway. Cricket as we know it is dying.
It's the times of the games that have made it very difficult to follow. Also, it just goes on far too long and the format needs to be revised.
The problem is that we need a properly structured domestic season and play tournaments in blocks rather than stretch them across the whole summer.
As for cricket dying, I can see some countries giving up on test cricket in the future.
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Compressing the domestic tournaments down to much smaller windows would be better. The championship needs to stay largely unchanged but the 40 over stuff should be played out much quicker and even the T20 could do with being streamlined.
As I've said previously England needs players to join the international T20 tournaments to learn how to bat and bowl in different conditions. That clearly has the knock on effect, as we've seen this world cup, of addressing a number of our faults in ODI cricket and means the coaches, etc can concentrate much more on the test players and on using those short format skills in the long format game. It's not cricket as we knew it but by trying to deny it's happening we end up being left behind. Adapt or die I'm afraid.
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Lyth has just completed a century for Yorkshire against the MCC in whatever far off place they are playing. Cook was out for 3.
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Good to see Cook's form is improving....
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Compressing the domestic tournaments down to much smaller windows would be better. The championship needs to stay largely unchanged but the 40 over stuff should be played out much quicker and even the T20 could do with being streamlined.
As I've said previously England needs players to join the international T20 tournaments to learn how to bat and bowl in different conditions. That clearly has the knock on effect, as we've seen this world cup, of addressing a number of our faults in ODI cricket and means the coaches, etc can concentrate much more on the test players and on using those short format skills in the long format game. It's not cricket as we knew it but by trying to deny it's happening we end up being left behind. Adapt or die I'm afraid.
Totally agree Paul. I personally don't see there being a need for four day cricket to continue after the summer test series have finished. If we could condense the summer international season a little more (personally I would have one day internationals before the test series to generate more interest in them) and maybe have test series at the end of May, tri-team one day series with two touring teams and then the main test series, we could easily have things finishing by August, giving plenty of opportunity to fit a tournament in then.
First port of call should be reducing the number of domestic T20 teams and fitting a tournament into a window where internationals from both home and abroad can play.
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Go the Kiwi's and go Baz. 71 off 5 overs against SA and McCullum already over 50. This is mental.
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NZ are in massive trouble now.
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It's building to an interesting climax. I wish I was working from home today!
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Absolutely incredible and I'm delighted NZ get to the final. Well played South Africa though, that wasn't choking.
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I was keeping up with the score on Cricinfo, very dramatic.
I was thinking 'one more boundary' and then it said 'match over, six'.
Well done New Zealand, they and India have been the best sides in the tournament so far.
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First match I've really been able to watch, what a game!
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Other than England's nonsense tournament I haven't really got into this tournament. It's just been a blown up 20/20 with fielding restriction changes and small boundaries designed to tip the balance to bat from ball in a big way. it may be the only way to protect test match cricket in making any other format a slogfest. It also means that for us to be successful we have to jump on board the horrible 20/20 train and play in the IPL, Big Bash, and the caribbean 20/20. It will affect our season but counties are dying anyway. Cricket as we know it is dying.
This for me. Seeing a batsmen smash a century or scoring at 2/3 runs a ball can be an awesome sight, the bowlers just not knowing what to do and the brutal mayhem but seeing it happen almost every game has turned it into a slogging damp squib for me, 300 totals after 300 totals, endless 6's. It's like a football match that ends up 5-4, incredible, but if it happens 30 matches a season...yeah not for me.
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Missed the last 2 overs radio 4 Long Wave went to morning prayers.Utter twats.
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Following that game just made realise how many million miles England are away from competing. 299 in 42.5 overs, England would be thrilled with that in 50 overs.
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Really pleased for New Zealand. I hope they go on and win it.
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Meanwhile Cook scored 5 in his second innings. A slight improvement on his first innings.
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Cook's career is coming very close to being in terminal decline.
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First match I've really been able to watch, what a game!
Yep great game and much needed in a tournament that has been devoid of real excitement.
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I am just catching up with this game via the highlights. At one point shortly after South Africa lost their second wicket Trent Boult was bowling to A field with five slips. I don't think I have ever seen that kind of field in a one day game before.
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On the basis of I will support whoever plays Australia COME ON INDIA. Doing well at the moment Aussies have dropped two catches already!
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On the basis of I will support whoever plays Australia COME ON INDIA. Doing well at the moment Aussies have dropped two catches already!
If India keep calm and bat sensibly they should win this. Imagine a CWC final in Melbourne with the Crims not playing. That would be one to relish!
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On the basis of I will support whoever plays Australia COME ON INDIA. Doing well at the moment Aussies have dropped two catches already!
If India keep calm and bat sensibly they should win this. Imagine a CWC final in Melbourne with the Crims not playing. That would be one to relish!
Sadly they're losing wickets at regular intervals. They will do well to win from here.
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If KP is serious about an England return why hasn't he signed for a top division club?
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I don't like India so happy with them being beaten even by the Aussies. Hopefully New Zealand will win anyway.
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If KP is serious about an England return why hasn't he signed for a top division club?
He doesn't want to leave London and should score shedloads of runs against second divison attacks.
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If KP is serious about an England return why hasn't he signed for a top division club?
He doesn't want to leave London and should score shedloads of runs against second divison attacks.
I'm guessing he'd have to be offered the chance by first division teams.
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Australia vs NZ final it'll be then. Come on NZ.
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That's that. Should be a blockbuster on Sunday. I know all of you will be rooting for New Zealand, but even I wouldn't begrudge them a victory given the players they have and the way they play the game.
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To be honest I think the way the Aussies act is pretty poor. I much prefer the attitude of the Kiwis.
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That's that. Should be a blockbuster on Sunday. I know all of you will be rooting for New Zealand, but even I wouldn't begrudge them a victory given the players they have and the way they play the game.
Everything about this Kiwis team is good. Tremendous talent backed by application and good sportsmanship. No sledging no gamesmanship no tantrums just lovely cricket. I hope they trounce Aussies.
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Yeah, c'mon the Kiwis. They've been the team of the tournament overall, no question.
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To be honest I think the way the Aussies act is pretty poor. I much prefer the attitude of the Kiwis.
Let's be honest Paul, the Aussies have been acting that way for some time now! They are a very good side though and Steve Smith has become a top batsman for them.
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The way the Aussies' summer has gone, they will win the toss and win by 100 runs. In fact, the only other outcome I can see is they lose the toss and win by 9 wickets.
I don't know exactly why, but I just haven't been able to get enthusiastic for this CWC. Apart from England's innings vs Sri Lanka and India's innings in the semi, I haven't seen a single ball bowled in any other match this world cup, and I normally watch all the cricket I can. I guess because it was a foregone conclusion once it looked like the Aussie team had got its act together.
You may say, how can I write off NZ without seeing them play? Because it's MCG, because the power is with Oz (even "crap" players like Smith are breaking Bradman's records), and because the Aussies are bastards who win these games.
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Smith has turned into a very good player. But don't underestimate NZ they are a hell of a side and they have a lot of character as well.
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New Zealand at 2/1 seems very very good odds considering how they have played all tournament.
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Just read with sadness that Martin Crowe has terminal cancer. Now he was a player. Hopefully NZ can give him some cheer against the odds tomorrow.
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Sigh, I am Jack's lack of surprise. Even if Dibbly, Dobbly and Wobbly (and Vettori) bowl well, maybe it'll only be an 7 or 8 wicket win.
Great, another period of Strylia lording it over the rest.
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Given what happened in Auckland and that Pakistan were a sitter dropped away from putting us in bother in the quarters, I'm not exactly getting the champagne out yet.
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Given what happened in Auckland and that Pakistan were a sitter dropped away from putting us in bother in the quarters, I'm not exactly getting the champagne out yet.
Nah, you could have got the champagne out before a ball was bowled in the tournament.
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Devestating that NZ did so poorly.
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Dogface is gone, let the collapse start here!
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Can we cancel the Ashes this year? It doesn't seem that long since the last one.
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It's (allegedly) your lot's fault for moving them up to (allegedly) accommodate more one-dayers in preparation for the WC.
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Right, now the World Cup is over and the county season is approaching, it's time for the red ball to come back out. In terms of England, it's all about the build up to the Ashes now, starting with the series in the West Indies. By the end of the West Indies and New Zealand series I hope we have found an opening partner for Cook and we have had a look at Rashid as the spinner. I think the rest of the side is pretty settled when everyone is fit.
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Right, now the World Cup is over and the county season is approaching, it's time for the red ball to come back out. In terms of England, it's all about the build up to the Ashes now, starting with the series in the West Indies. By the end of the West Indies and New Zealand series I hope we have found an opening partner for Cook and we have had a look at Rashid as the spinner. I think the rest of the side is pretty settled when everyone is fit.
I'm really concerned about this Ashes summer. I think they will retain the Ashes in England for the first time in about 15 years. We are in disarray.
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Looking forward to the County Season starting a week on Sunday. I'm tempted by the 6/4 on Worcester to finish bottom of County Champ Div 1, sorry Worcester fans. Think they are a young side who will have a rude awakening to life back in the top level and with no Ajmal who was utterly unplayable last season.
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Right, now the World Cup is over and the county season is approaching, it's time for the red ball to come back out. In terms of England, it's all about the build up to the Ashes now, starting with the series in the West Indies. By the end of the West Indies and New Zealand series I hope we have found an opening partner for Cook and we have had a look at Rashid as the spinner. I think the rest of the side is pretty settled when everyone is fit.
I'm really concerned about this Ashes summer. I think they will retain the Ashes in England for the first time in about 15 years. We are in disarray.
Their second string bowling attack would still be better than our strongest.
I fear we'll get an absolute belting again.
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Right, now the World Cup is over and the county season is approaching, it's time for the red ball to come back out. In terms of England, it's all about the build up to the Ashes now, starting with the series in the West Indies. By the end of the West Indies and New Zealand series I hope we have found an opening partner for Cook and we have had a look at Rashid as the spinner. I think the rest of the side is pretty settled when everyone is fit.
I'm really concerned about this Ashes summer. I think they will retain the Ashes in England for the first time in about 15 years. We are in disarray.
I don't think we are so much in the test format. Opener aside, we have a pretty settled batting line up and we have bowlers who are effective in home conditions.
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Right, now the World Cup is over and the county season is approaching, it's time for the red ball to come back out. In terms of England, it's all about the build up to the Ashes now, starting with the series in the West Indies. By the end of the West Indies and New Zealand series I hope we have found an opening partner for Cook and we have had a look at Rashid as the spinner. I think the rest of the side is pretty settled when everyone is fit.
I'm really concerned about this Ashes summer. I think they will retain the Ashes in England for the first time in about 15 years. We are in disarray.
I don't think we are so much in the test format. Opener aside, we have a pretty settled batting line up and we have bowlers who are effective in home conditions.
I think most of our batting line up will be smashed by a combination of Starc, Johnson, Harris and Hazelwood. There's no let up in that attack. I'm fairly certain we're in for a heavy beating. What we need to do is start developing genuine pace bowlers.
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Sadly I agree with you Paul, but would add in the drop in form over the last year or so of most of our bowlers.
Because last year's Ashes were overnight I could shut my eyes and avoid most of the pain. This year I'm faced with spending the entire Summer hiding behind the settee!
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Maybe we need to be crushed in the Ashes and by New Zealand, so that there can be no more of this 'we're alright at Test cricket, so we're ok.' Firstly you should always be aspiring to be the best at all forms of the game. Secondly we're not good at Test cricket now. We beat an India side who surrended completely, our game is in a mess. We need to be developing batsman who can play aggresively and bowlers who bowl genuinely quickly. It's no surprise or coincidence that most of Australia's World Cup winning team will also be playing in the Ashes and the same for the Kiwi's.
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Maybe we need to be crushed in the Ashes and by New Zealand, so that there can be no more of this 'we're alright at Test cricket, so we're ok.' Firstly you should always be aspiring to be the best at all forms of the game. Secondly we're not good at Test cricket now. We beat an India side who surrended completely, our game is in a mess. We need to be developing batsman who can play aggresively and bowlers who bowl genuinely quickly. It's no surprise or coincidence that most of Australia's World Cup winning team will also be playing in the Ashes and the same for the Kiwi's.
Totally different environment though Paul. No ten over spells in test cricket and that format of the game could highlight Australia's lack of a spinner. Again, I have to disagree about us not being good at test cricket. We need Broad and Anderson at somewhere near their best to be a force at that level though.
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Lyon is a perfectly good spinner. Also with those four bowlers and maybe Faulkner as well they'll have plenty of time to rest. Broad has completely lost it since he got hit in the face and his mental state is effecting his bowling. Anderson has lost some zip and I don't know if he can get it back. Behind that at the moment we look pretty average. Also it's worth noting that when England were doing well Cook was getting runs, which he hasn't done for two years. Trott was consistently scoring and who knows what he'll do now. Also most importantly our lower order pretty regularly put on 100-150 runs. They won't get any runs against Starc and Johnson. Australia are probably the best Test team in the World. Short of a dramatic turn around and Finn finding his pace again we will be in for a beating.
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Aussie squad for Windies and Ashes tours
Michael Clarke (c), Steve Smith, (vc) Fawad Ahmed, Brad Haddin, Josh Hazlewood, Ryan Harris, Mitchell Johnson, Nathan Lyon, Mitchell Marsh, Shaun Marsh, Peter Nevill, Chris Rogers, Peter Siddle, Mitchell Starc, Adam Voges, David Warner, Shane Watson
Seems a bit early to be announcing this
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Maybe we need to be crushed in the Ashes and by New Zealand, so that there can be no more of this 'we're alright at Test cricket, so we're ok.' Firstly you should always be aspiring to be the best at all forms of the game. Secondly we're not good at Test cricket now. We beat an India side who surrended completely, our game is in a mess. We need to be developing batsman who can play aggresively and bowlers who bowl genuinely quickly. It's no surprise or coincidence that most of Australia's World Cup winning team will also be playing in the Ashes and the same for the Kiwi's.
Good post and agree completely. I can see nothing other than a painful summer.
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Maybe we need to be crushed in the Ashes and by New Zealand, so that there can be no more of this 'we're alright at Test cricket, so we're ok.' Firstly you should always be aspiring to be the best at all forms of the game. Secondly we're not good at Test cricket now. We beat an India side who surrended completely, our game is in a mess. We need to be developing batsman who can play aggresively and bowlers who bowl genuinely quickly. It's no surprise or coincidence that most of Australia's World Cup winning team will also be playing in the Ashes and the same for the Kiwi's.
Good post and agree completely. I can see nothing other than a painful summer.
Jeez lads, you're getting me depressed now.
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I was hopeful but not now.
I think the batting will be pretty even but I do worry about our bowling.
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Has anyone seen much of Wood who's going on the Windies tour? Lots of people are saying he bowls with pace.
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Four day Tests? Colin Graves, please go do one.
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Has anyone seen much of Wood who's going on the Windies tour? Lots of people are saying he bowls with pace.
Pace in terms of 85-87 mph from what i've seen. Not actual pace.
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That's frustrating. I mean he might be great, but we need a bowler who can regularly bowl at 90mph +.
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That's frustrating. I mean he might be great, but we need a bowler who can regularly bowl at 90mph +.
We don't produce them. Even when we steal one from the west indies we slow him down to try to make him a swing bowler. I'm hoping that a change to the bowling coach may help but I doubt it.
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That's frustrating. I mean he might be great, but we need a bowler who can regularly bowl at 90mph +.
When did we last produce one of those?
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That's frustrating. I mean he might be great, but we need a bowler who can regularly bowl at 90mph +.
When did we last produce one of those?
Harmison?
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Finn comes to mind, but then we overcoached him and messed him up. He regularly bowled at over 90mph.
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If I were the ECB I would break the bank and bring Troy Cooley back. He was our best bowling coach by a mile and look how he turned Johnson around for Australia before moving into the academy set up.
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Trouble is though exactly how much autonomy does the bowling coach have? No doubt he has to follow instruction from the head coach. It's the coaching mentality that's at fault not the individuals delivering it.
I quite like Ottis Gibson, we have him back for the Caribbean tour. Hopefully he can help Jordan discover his pace.
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Finn comes to mind, but then we overcoached him and messed him up. He regularly bowled at over 90mph.
I'm not sure he bowled over 90mph on a regular basis Paul and the same with Harmison. I've mentioned it before, but I think the reason we haven't produced a genuinely fast bowler for some time is that players are over coached from a young age. Any technical difference that may allow a player to bowl very quick (think Johnson and Malinga) would be soon ironed out when they go to a club at a young age.
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I don't know part of Finn's success was that he bowled quick. That's why he's lost his edge now. I do agree about over coaching, but I also think it's down to our conditions. I think too many bowlers are happy to settle at medium fast, because it swings around.
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I don't know part of things success was that he bowled quick. That's why he's lost his edge now. I do agree about over coaching, but I also think it's down to our conditions. I think too many bowlers are happy to settle at medium fast, because it swings around.
This is where exposure to the IPL/BBL/Caribbean T20 would help our bowlers.
As it stands English players play so infrequently on the hard, fast pitches in Australia and the Caribbean or the comparitive dustbowls in India. Rejig the fixtures and allow our players the freedom to gain more experience of overseas pitches. Imagine the bowler that Jimmy Anderson could have been if he'd had more exposure to different conditions.
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Both Finn and Harmison were regularly up in the high 80s a few years ago but when harmison broke through he was more erratic but capping out at 91-92
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I don't know part of things success was that he bowled quick. That's why he's lost his edge now. I do agree about over coaching, but I also think it's down to our conditions. I think too many bowlers are happy to settle at medium fast, because it swings around.
He lost his edge when he went into the England set up and they began messing around with his action and run up. It's why I fear for the likes of Jordan and any other young players going into the Team England environment.
Thinking back, Simon Jones was regularly bowling in the 90's before his original knee injury out in Australia.
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England don't produce out and out quicks, but I'm sure Harmy got it up around 94-95mph on occasion. Back in '05 he produced balls that were too quick for Ponting and Langer on the Lord's pitch. Going back a little further, we had Devon Malcolm and Sid Lawrence who could bowl quite rapid, but were erratic. But it does make your heart sink when you hear about so-and-so who's supposed to be rapid, you check him out on cricinfo and it says "fast medium".
By the way, I wonder why India don't produce real fast bowlers but Pakistan have produced some of the fastest (and best).
As for Finn, when he came on the scene he was high 80's low 90's on occasion but he bowled a really awkward length I seem to recall. And he also had a touch of the golden arm about him.
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Finn was always between 88-92, but now he's done at about 84-85. It makes a big difference.
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Forgot about Tremlett. He probably would have been up there had it not been for injuries.
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Tymal Mills' career seems to have stalled. He's just had two really poor seasons.
At one time in spite of the hype he did look promising. Let's hope the move from Essex to Sussex gets his career back on track. A left arm quick could be a godsend.
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Well I'm not sure we are going to learn too much from bowling a team out for 59! Good to see Stokes back though.
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I just don't have a good feeling about Trott being back. It might work in the Windies but I have a feeling it'll be found out in the summer. It strikes me as desperately trying to cling onto the past rather than looking forward.
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I just don't have a good feeling about Trott being back. It might work in the Windies but I have a feeling it'll be found out in the summer. It strikes me as desperately trying to cling onto the past rather than looking forward.
If it is found out then there is always the option of Lyth coming in. The rest of the batting line up is pretty settled, so I don't think it would be a major problem. There will be a few in the team facing some demons when the Australians arrive.
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I just don't have a good feeling about Trott being back. It might work in the Windies but I have a feeling it'll be found out in the summer. It strikes me as desperately trying to cling onto the past rather than looking forward.
I have a very good feeling about Trott coming back, if his head is in the right place he's one of the best openers in the business and should still have another four or five years of Test cricket left in him.
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I'm 50/50 on Trott and whether he has the mental strength to play international cricket again.
On one hand I really hope he does well and scores shed loads of runs. On the other I think that it would not take much for him to suffer a relapse.
Good luck Trotty, we need you.
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No need to worry about if Trotty is able to return as opener,i have just read Ali is back playing today. Reading some of the comments on here he is a cert to be one of the openers
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I think he was talked about as option as an opener rather than a 'cert'. He needs to be in the team somewhere, he's had a very good year.
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http://www1.skysports.com/cricket/news/12148/9793794/sussex-signing-tymal-mills-knocking-on-englands-door
Sounds promising on Mills.
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No need to worry about if Trotty is able to return as opener,i have just read Ali is back playing today. Reading some of the comments on here he is a cert to be one of the openers
No chance of that. It will be either Trott or Lyth partnering Cook.
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Downton gone fromthe ECB.The first of many to come I hope.
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Interesting decision that.
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Whittaker and then Moores.
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Really sad news to hear of the death of Richie Benaud tonight.
Such an iconic commentator. I'm too young to remember him as a player, but as a commentator no one has ever been able to portray so much by saying so little. (if that makes sense)
The sport is so much poorer for his passing.
RIP
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Used to love the World Series Cricket theme tune then Richie saying 'good evening from a very Sunny Perth'.
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It may sound corny, but hearing his voice on Test Match Special, or C4 was actually reassuring.
There are cricket good pundits/commentators in their own ways, but no one has that understated charm of Benaud.
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It's what he didn't say what made him so good.
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A true legend, the world is a little worse off tonight.
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Sad news about the death of Richie Benuad . He is probably the first voice i can remember when i first got interested in cricket as a kid. He always seemed to know what he was talking about and came across as being fair in his comments .R I P
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Even in the dark Ashes-free years from 1989 to 2005 he never gloated, never cheered for the Aussies and was always subjective. He was a gentleman and had that rare ability that so few commentators possess: knowing when to speak and when to keep quiet.
And what a marvellous innings that was.
RIP Richie.
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Very sad news. Commentated on so many Ashes series and it would heve easy for him gloat as Australia bullied us for so many years, but he was always fair and unbiased.
Yes he was a wonderful commentator, but let's remember he also had a wonderful playing career and was hugely successful as Australia's test captain too. He certainly fitted a lot into his life - as the great man may have said, "Marverlous".
RIP Richie
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I'd love being at home during the school summer holidays, and waiting to switch the TV on in the morning to listen to him introduce the first session's play.
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Truly sad. He was a commentator and bloke. RIP Richie.
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Every death is sad specially to those close to the deceased however sometimes a death of person you have never met is felt as close as that of a friend. This is one of those. I absolutely loved Richie's commertary and his forthright no nonsense words. Great player and contributor to the game we all love. Thank you Richie and RIP.
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Really sad to hear of the passing of Richie Benaud. One of the genuine greats who will be sadly missed.
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Really sad to hear of the passing of Richie Benaud. One of the genuine greats who will be sadly missed.
Indeed! One of the iconic broadcasting voices of my childhood and beyond. RIP Richie.
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Every death is sad specially to those close to the deceased however sometimes a death of person you have never met is felt as close as that of a friend. This is one of those. I absolutely loved Richie's commertary and his forthright no nonsense words. Great player and contributor to the game we all love. Thank you Richie and RIP.
I could not of put it any better....RIP Richie and thanks for the memories...
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Every death is sad specially to those close to the deceased however sometimes a death of person you have never met is felt as close as that of a friend. This is one of those. I absolutely loved Richie's commertary and his forthright no nonsense words. Great player and contributor to the game we all love. Thank you Richie and RIP.
This says it all. Everyone is feeling down today, you knew it was coming as he'd missed the last 2 years in the Channel Nine box but the world is a poorer place for his passing.
Tributes running constantly here tonight.
Good on yer Rich.
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Wish I could have seen him as a player and a captain, but what a terrific commentator. I remember in 2005, when everyone (including me) was leaping about and shrieking with hysterical excitement, how he would maintain that completely unrufflable demeanor and calm voice. My favourite Benaud line: 'McGrath's out for 2 - just 98 short of his century'. He'll be missed alright.
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How I wish the current generation of commentators (in all sports) could learn three things from Benaud: (1) commentary is not a forum for personal opinion; (2) hyperbole is a poor substitute for an articulate and accurate description of the actual events unfolding in front of you; and (3) neutrality is everything.
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How I wish the current generation of commentators (in all sports) could learn three things from Benaud: (1) commentary is not a forum for personal opinion; (2) hyperbole is a poor substitute for an articulate and accurate description of the actual events unfolding in front of you; and (3) neutrality is everything.
Yes, yes and yes. And it's why we'll probably not see his like again.
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How I wish the current generation of commentators (in all sports) could learn three things from Benaud: (1) commentary is not a forum for personal opinion; (2) hyperbole is a poor substitute for an articulate and accurate description of the actual events unfolding in front of you; and (3) neutrality is everything.
Super post. Some of the sports I watch have commentators who fall well short on all 3 counts.
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How I wish the current generation of commentators (in all sports) could learn three things from Benaud: (1) commentary is not a forum for personal opinion; (2) hyperbole is a poor substitute for an articulate and accurate description of the actual events unfolding in front of you; and (3) neutrality is everything.
Ah yes the recent pitch invasion in the WBA is a case on this.
Just reading some of the Benaud classic quotes and he described pitch invasions as a "carpet of humanity."
R.I.P.
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Richie Benaud was by far the best cricket commentator of all time, it doesn't seem ten years ago that he hung up his microphone for the last time.
R.I.P. Richie Benaud
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John Motson and Murray Walker pay tribute to Richie Benaud
Two voices who define their respective sports, Formula 1's Murray Walker, and football's John Motson, on the art of commentary, and why the late Richie Benaud was so great.
Mr Walker said Benaud's personality "shon through", but he was also "a master of his craft".
BBC football commentator, John Motson, also paid tribute to the former Austrlian cricketer and commentator, saying Benaud will be remembered for his "economy of words" and being one of those who "put BBC sport on the map".
The Australian cricketer and commentator died aged 84 of skin cancer.
This clip is originally from 5 live Daily on Friday 10 April 2015.
Somebody should read the copy before putting it out!
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Benaud was a brilliant commentator who used just the right level of humour.
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This is a huge shame, he was the best commentator in a sport full of very good commentators and for many cricket fans of my age he's the voice of the sport, it was a sad day when he retired and a much sadder one today/yesterday, a great man who will be missed.
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Can't stand the IPL but just seen an amazing catch. Southee throws the ball back as he catches it but steps over the boundary and a fielder claims it one-handed. great catch.
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Haven't seen it but this was a bit good!
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Is that the first or the 2nd one? They did 2 that were almost exactly the same in the space of a couple of weeks, it's clearly something they'd worked on in training.
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It's the second one, the other was the previous season against Worcester.
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It's the second one, the other was the previous season against Worcester.
Oh I thought they were both last summer.
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So proper Cricket starts tomorrow with day one of the first test against the Windies. There are a few blokes playing for their test places but the one most under pressure is Moores. We need to win and win well.
There will be a new guy in situ soon enough to replace Downton and Vaughan, Strauss and Fleming are the favourites. I've no preference from those three but I'm pretty sure that a new guy would look very closely at the coach and his ability.
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I think I'd prefer Vaughan, as he's been away from the team long enough. Interesting to see KP score 170 yesterday, albeit against weak oppostions. Never the less that gives an indication of his focus.
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There is a lot of pressure on the Windies series. It's everything to lose really, because they are not a strong side and we should win.
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I think I'd prefer Vaughan, as he's been away from the team long enough. Interesting to see KP score 170 yesterday, albeit against weak oppostions. Never the less that gives an indication of his focus.
If Vaughan is successful then it's the end of the road for Moores. Vaughan does not rate him at all and has been very critical of him in the past.
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He rates him as a youth development coach and thinks he'd be very good in a different role.
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So we're batting first. Trott opens, Stokes at 6 and Tredwell instead of Rashid. The latter choice seems to sum up English cricket nicely. Tredwell is perfectly steady and decent in ODIs, but he struggles to get in his county side of 4 day cricket. But England pick him, because he's solid rather than going for a guy who will take wickets..
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So we're batting first. Trott opens, Stokes at 6 and Tredwell instead of Rashid. The latter choice seems to sum up English cricket nicely. Tredwell is perfectly steady and decent in ODIs, but he struggles to get in his county side of 4 day cricket. But England pick him, because he's solid rather than going for a guy who will take wickets..
I agree Paul, we are looking like we bat along way down and surprised Adil was not picked....let's just get a good start from Cook and Trott .
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So we're batting first. Trott opens, Stokes at 6 and Tredwell instead of Rashid. The latter choice seems to sum up English cricket nicely. Tredwell is perfectly steady and decent in ODIs, but he struggles to get in his county side of 4 day cricket. But England pick him, because he's solid rather than going for a guy who will take wickets..
"If Tredwell can play for England then so can I".
FFS what a meaningless selection.
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I would have liked to see Plunkett or Wood get a chance as well. I'm not unhappy to see Stokes in, if he's got his form back.
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Can Yorkshire have Rashid and Plunkett back please if they're not going to play them? Ta.
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Trott's comeback was ended in 3 balls. Very disappointing.
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Well that's a pretty disastrous start to Trotty's return.
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Trott's comeback was ended in 3 balls. Very disappointing.
ffs....that should of been two down....
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Trott's comeback was ended in 3 balls. Very disappointing.
ffs....that should of been two down....
I've got TMS on and Aggers reckons that it didn't carry. For some reason they don't have a TV monitor to confirm, so are Sky saying otherwise?
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So we're batting first. Trott opens, Stokes at 6 and Tredwell instead of Rashid. The latter choice seems to sum up English cricket nicely. Tredwell is perfectly steady and decent in ODIs, but he struggles to get in his county side of 4 day cricket. But England pick him, because he's solid rather than going for a guy who will take wickets..
"If Tredwell can play for England then so can I".
FFS what a meaningless selection.
It is totally pointless in every meaning of the word. Even if he does well he won't stay in the team.
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Trott's comeback was ended in 3 balls. Very disappointing.
ffs....that should of been two down....
I've got TMS on and Aggers reckons that it didn't carry. For some reason they don't have a TV monitor to confirm, so are Sky saying otherwise?
you are right, I'm listening at work too :)
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So we're batting first. Trott opens, Stokes at 6 and Tredwell instead of Rashid. The latter choice seems to sum up English cricket nicely. Tredwell is perfectly steady and decent in ODIs, but he struggles to get in his county side of 4 day cricket. But England pick him, because he's solid rather than going for a guy who will take wickets..
"If Tredwell can play for England then so can I".
FFS what a meaningless selection.
It is totally pointless in every meaning of the word. Even if he does well he won't stay in the team.
Who picks the team these days? Is it Moores and the chairman of selectors? Or does Cook get involved? I need to know so I know who to blame!
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Well that's a pretty disastrous start to Trotty's return.
Yep not a great start at all. Can't complain about the selection on the whole, but I think there must be a problem with Rashid, as the selection of Tredwell over him is baffling.
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Trott's comeback was ended in 3 balls. Very disappointing.
ffs....that should of been two down....
I've got TMS on and Aggers reckons that it didn't carry. For some reason they don't have a TV monitor to confirm, so are Sky saying otherwise?
you are right, I'm listening at work too :)
I'm working from home and being very conscientious and not watching Sky yet. Of course being on here and listening to TMS does not count.
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Well that's a pretty disastrous start to Trotty's return.
Yep not a great start at all. Can't complain about the selection on the whole, but I think there must be a problem with Rashid, as the selection of Tredwell over him is baffling.
Rashid should definitely have played. I also think that Plunkett or Wood should have played.
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So we're batting first. Trott opens, Stokes at 6 and Tredwell instead of Rashid. The latter choice seems to sum up English cricket nicely. Tredwell is perfectly steady and decent in ODIs, but he struggles to get in his county side of 4 day cricket. But England pick him, because he's solid rather than going for a guy who will take wickets..
Sums up English sport nicely Paul. It's why we see Danny Welbeck being chosen over Harry Kane, it's always the safety first option.
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Cook b 11, he has failed again, full delivery inside edge and bowled.
22-2
Belly in
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Another failure for Cook. It's been an awful long time since he scored significant test runs.
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Cook's 2 year run of appalling form continues.
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I think the selection of Tredwell and also to some extent Broad has shown we haven't learned from our World Cup mistakes. I know it's a different format, but it's the same issue around not being bold enough. Tredwell just isn't a Test spinner and never has been. Rashid might not be, but he's got a lot more potential. I would have understood Ali playing if he'd been fit, because he had an excellent year. But to choose Tredwell over Rashid in a straight choice is shocking. In Broads case he's not been in form or fit and we have 3 other bowlers bowling at a similar pace. Plunkett or Wood would have offered something different to the attack. But no we go with the predictable and what is perceived safe choice. Whoever is selecting the team needs to go.
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Much as I love TMS and Viv Richards, the two don't go together. He's terrible on the radio.
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Ballance gone. This really is an abysmal start to the test.
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It's starting to rain too.
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I think the selection of Tredwell and also to some extent Broad has shown we haven't learned from our World Cup mistakes. I know it's a different format, but it's the same issue around not being bold enough. Tredwell just isn't a Test spinner and never has been. Rashid might not be, but he's got a lot more potential. I would have understood Ali playing if he'd been fit, because he had an excellent year. But to choose Tredwell over Rashid in a straight choice is shocking. In Broads case he's not been in form or fit and we have 3 other bowlers bowling at a similar pace. Plunkett or Wood would have offered something different to the attack. But no we go with the predictable and what is perceived safe choice. Whoever is selecting the team needs to go.
Totally agree. As it stands, I think Mo Ali is the first choice spinner and batting at six, he offers a nice balance to the side. Theuy surely know what Tredwell can do, so this was the perfect opportuinity to have a look at Rashid. As you say though, we go safety first. Broad has admitted himself that his confidence has been shaken and we could have rested him and let him play a bit of county cricket before the home tests. Again we could have had a look at other options. Nope, safety first. As you say, it is time for a clean sweep, including Cook as captain for me.
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Utter dross first session from England. As usual we allow the opposition to bowl at us and don't try any aggression to take them off their game. If you have no one batting with tempo this is what happens. You can occupy the crease for a while but when you get out you've gone nowhere. It's the same old problems repeating themselves.
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It's as if the last 20 years of Test cricket has never happened for this side. The West Indies are not a bad bowling side, and we're short of relevant cricket, but that was abject.
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We are under the impression that Test cricket is still played at a slow pace. It's not, the top teams play an aggressive fast paced style now. If you're not scoring at 4 an over on a regular basis you're behind the times. We are miles off it now.
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A more one paced, atritional, defensive top 5 I haven't seen for a long time for England.
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How stubborn are the selectors as well? The shambolic way in which Cook was ditched just before the world cup because they didn't want to be proven wrong despite the overwhelming evidence, well it looks like it's going to go that way in the tests as well. Don't be surprised if they manage to let Cook hang on until weeks before the Ashes. He looks shot right now and has done for a while.
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Improved second session so far.
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Bell needs a big score here.
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The West Indies bowlers have lost their discipline here.
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The West Indies bowlers have lost their discipline here.
They're running out of ideas and their heads are dropping.
Once the early-session liveliness of the pitch wore off, batting got easier. There are several big scores to be had here if they bat sensibly.
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Yep it's very flat and to be honest Root, Buttler and Ali are the only positives of the last year so let's hope a couple of them dig us out.
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Yep it's very flat and to be honest Root, Buttler and Ali are the only positives of the last year so let's hope a couple of them dig us out.
Ali would be doing well, get your point though, these are the players we should be building around next 5-8 years
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We are under the impression that Test cricket is still played at a slow pace. It's not, the top teams play an aggressive fast paced style now. If you're not scoring at 4 an over on a regular basis you're behind the times. We are miles off it now.
Not sure about that Paul. The last couple of times we have come across South Africa, they have shown us how to bat in test matches. The likes of Kallis and Amla gave a master class in how to bat in test matches - solid defensively yet able to put the bad balls away.
Thinking about it on the way home though, I'm not sure I like the look of that Trott and Cook opening partnership. One of them needs to be partnered with someone a little more adventurous.
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A much better session with the scoring rate back up where it should be.
Joe Root's back problem is a cause for concern though.
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We are under the impression that Test cricket is still played at a slow pace. It's not, the top teams play an aggressive fast paced style now. If you're not scoring at 4 an over on a regular basis you're behind the times. We are miles off it now.
Not sure about that Paul. The last couple of times we have come across South Africa, they have shown us how to bat in test matches. The likes of Kallis and Amla gave a master class in how to bat in test matches - solid defensively yet able to put the bad balls away.
Thinking about it on the way home though, I'm not sure I like the look of that Trott and Cook opening partnership. One of them needs to be partnered with someone a little more adventurous.
The Saffers adapt to the match situation though and are masters at it. Most top test sides score at 4 an over. The Aussies started it and others followed suit.
Trott and Cook are too staid to be an opening partnership. Neither of them will dominate an attack. We have tried so many combinations since Strauss retired and haven't found a stable pair of openers who compliment each other.
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We are under the impression that Test cricket is still played at a slow pace. It's not, the top teams play an aggressive fast paced style now. If you're not scoring at 4 an over on a regular basis you're behind the times. We are miles off it now.
Not sure about that Paul. The last couple of times we have come across South Africa, they have shown us how to bat in test matches. The likes of Kallis and Amla gave a master class in how to bat in test matches - solid defensively yet able to put the bad balls away.
Thinking about it on the way home though, I'm not sure I like the look of that Trott and Cook opening partnership. One of them needs to be partnered with someone a little more adventurous.
putting away the bad balls is part of it but amla in particular is excellent at rotating the strike so bowlers rarely get chance to set him up. That our biggest problem, a bit of aggression and we withdraw and let the pressure build. Look at Ballance today, he just stopped trying to score and then got out having not scored for about 20 balls, that's just getting yourself into trouble.
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Root turned around this innings, he brought tempo to us.
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We are under the impression that Test cricket is still played at a slow pace. It's not, the top teams play an aggressive fast paced style now. If you're not scoring at 4 an over on a regular basis you're behind the times. We are miles off it now.
Not sure about that Paul. The last couple of times we have come across South Africa, they have shown us how to bat in test matches. The likes of Kallis and Amla gave a master class in how to bat in test matches - solid defensively yet able to put the bad balls away.
Thinking about it on the way home though, I'm not sure I like the look of that Trott and Cook opening partnership. One of them needs to be partnered with someone a little more adventurous.
putting away the bad balls is part of it but amla in particular is excellent at rotating the strike so bowlers rarely get chance to set him up. That our biggest problem, a bit of aggression and we withdraw and let the pressure build. Look at Ballance today, he just stopped trying to score and then got out having not scored for about 20 balls, that's just getting yourself into trouble.
Indeed it's not all about hitting boundaries. It's about keeping the score board ticking.
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Stokes could be an important player for us if he gets his form back.
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Nice to see a Villa fan going well
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Good knock from Bell.
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Fantastic partnership from Bell and Root, took us from a really difficult position to one which should see us having safely 'won' the first day.
Brilliant century from Bell, just a shame Root didn't get the one he deserved as well.
Good to see Stokes come in and play with a bit of freedom, this is his natural game, looking to score quickly and make the opposition captain think about containment rather than just looking for the wicket. It's made it easier for Bell to just keep plugging away as well.
This does show just how braindead the top 3 were though, even if there was more in the pitch it was clearly a batting surface, they needed to just see the shine and 'newness' off the ball and then cash in, they all seem to have gone to poor shots rather than particularly good bowling or difficult conditions.
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The real Ben Stokes, who can score quick and bowl well, is a big asset to us.
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An impressive comeback - last time I checked England were fortysomething for 3 and Bell was in single figures.
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Good knock from Bell.
He's had a lot of stick for his performance at the World Cup, but he is a top test match player. In tests he can play at his own pace, whereas I always get the feeling that in the shortened formats of the game he tries to force things when he gets a bit stuck sand ends up getting out.
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The real Ben Stokes, who can score quick and bowl well, is a big asset to us.
Do you reckon its a "shoot-out" between him and Jordan for the spare place as you would presume Ali would come back into the team ASAP...........I would prefer to see Rashid in for the ever dependable Tredwell
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Bell out for 143 - him and Stokes have dragged England back into this along with some generous West Indies bowling.
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Bell plays another top innings for England. Root is some player though, such a good temperament. Good to see Stokes in and playing his shots.
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The real Ben Stokes, who can score quick and bowl well, is a big asset to us.
Kevin who?
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Go out in the morning and let Stokes and Tredwell take a few overs out of the ball then just go big and push for 500 by lunch, that should be doable and would be enough to win this. It glosses over the problems at the top a little but right now we need to win some test matches whilst we can because the rest of the summer is a lot more difficult than this.
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A wonderful innings from Bell. Nick Knight commented on Sky that it was the type of pitch where Bell could not play his favourite cover drive. He displayed great mental strength in his shot selection, helped by some poor bowling. It was a great ball that got him though.
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Can anyone explain what the hell the point in sending out a night watchman for the last over was?
Tredwell didn't face a ball and Stokes just blocked it. If that was the plan then why not put Buttler in to wait at the non strikers end for 6 balls? It would look really bad if Tredwell is there scratching around for 40 minutes or so tomorrow.
That being said, lovely innings from Bell, with good contributions from Root and Stokes. It looks a poor West Indies and a flat pitch though.
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Can anyone explain what the hell the point in sending out a night watchman for the last over was?
Tredwell didn't face a ball and Stokes just blocked it. If that was the plan then why not put Buttler in to wait at the non strikers end for 6 balls? It would look really bad if Tredwell is there scratching around for 40 minutes or so tomorrow.
That being said, lovely innings from Bell, with good contributions from Root and Stokes. It looks a poor West Indies and a flat pitch though.
As we've seen today, the Windies are hardly blessed with a lot of bowling options. If Tredwell can stick around long enough tomorrow to see off the opening overs, it could be carnage when Buttler comes in.
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Go out in the morning and let Stokes and Tredwell take a few overs out of the ball then just go big and push for 500 by lunch, that should be doable and would be enough to win this. It glosses over the problems at the top a little but right now we need to win some test matches whilst we can because the rest of the summer is a lot more difficult than this.
In terms of the top three, Trott got a good ball and Ballance has hardly played any cricket, so it's just a case of waiting to see with them. There have to be real concerns about Cook though. His technique looks all over the place and it was a pretty embarrassing dismissal.
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Root, Bell and Stokes did really well. Although it was a typically odd decision to send in a nightwatchman. We're building a big lead and it was the last over. It was another overly cautious and unnecessary choice.
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The real Ben Stokes, who can score quick and bowl well, is a big asset to us.
Do you reckon its a "shoot-out" between him and Jordan for the spare place as you would presume Ali would come back into the team ASAP...........I would prefer to see Rashid in for the ever dependable Tredwell
I think they'd just bring in Ali for Tredwell. I think Ali should definitely be in the team, but it's a shame they've not picked Rashid here.
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Go out in the morning and let Stokes and Tredwell take a few overs out of the ball then just go big and push for 500 by lunch, that should be doable and would be enough to win this. It glosses over the problems at the top a little but right now we need to win some test matches whilst we can because the rest of the summer is a lot more difficult than this.
In terms of the top three, Trott got a good ball and Ballance has hardly played any cricket, so it's just a case of waiting to see with them. There have to be real concerns about Cook though. His technique looks all over the place and it was a pretty embarrassing dismissal.
See I can accept the Trott one on it's own because it was a decent delivery (I think Trott from 3-4 years ago doesn't get out to that though) but the Ballance one was absolutely his own fault, he backed himself into a corner and the only result was going to be him giving his wicket away with a loose one. I agree though that Cook is the biggest problem, it looks to me like the pressure of being captain has got to him and he's taken his eye off the ball with his own game. He's always had a couple of target-able weaknesses but in the past bowlers had to get it in very exact areas to exploit those, in the last 2 years that hasn't been the case, 3-4 half decent deliveries in a row and he looks all at sea.
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I'd agree Trott wouldn't have got out to that delivery in his peak. Hopefully it's just a case of a bit of nerves, but it is a concern. Ballance is a worry at the moment as he looks horribly out of form.
I'm pretty concerned that Cook's career at the top level may be over. He'll be there for the Ashes, but if he doesn't perform then we need to move on. As good as he was for the last two years he's been a liability and he's been given more time than anyone I can remember.
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I'd agree Trott wouldn't have got out to that delivery in his peak. Hopefully it's just a case of a bit of nerves, but it is a concern. Ballance is a worry at the moment as he looks horribly out of form.
I'm pretty concerned that Cook's career at the top level may be over. He'll be there for the Ashes, but if he doesn't perform then we need to move on. As good as he was for the last two years he's been a liability and he's been given more time than anyone I can remember.
Since the last Ashes he has looked mentally shot. The mess around the England side since then cannot have helped him but I really think that for the benefit of his long term England future he needs to be relieved of the captaincy. We need a fit and firing Cook at the top of our order.
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I'd agree Trott wouldn't have got out to that delivery in his peak. Hopefully it's just a case of a bit of nerves, but it is a concern. Ballance is a worry at the moment as he looks horribly out of form.
I'm pretty concerned that Cook's career at the top level may be over. He'll be there for the Ashes, but if he doesn't perform then we need to move on. As good as he was for the last two years he's been a liability and he's been given more time than anyone I can remember.
Since the last Ashes he has looked mentally shot. The mess around the England side since then cannot have helped him but I really think that for the benefit of his long term England future he needs to be relieved of the captaincy. We need a fit and firing Cook at the top of our order.
He'd been through a rollercoaster of emotions during the Indian test series and really should have been rested after that until the start of this series. Instead, he was thrust into the one day arena (which doesn't suit his game) and then suffered the ignominy of being relieved of his duties before the World Cup.
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The real Ben Stokes, who can score quick and bowl well, is a big asset to us.
Do you reckon its a "shoot-out" between him and Jordan for the spare place as you would presume Ali would come back into the team ASAP...........I would prefer to see Rashid in for the ever dependable Tredwell
I think they'd just bring in Ali for Tredwell. I think Ali should definitely be in the team, but it's a shame they've not picked Rashid here.
I don't know if you're a Worcester fan Paul, but I just can't see what the obsession is with Ali.
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I don't know if you're a Worcester fan Paul, but I just can't see what the obsession is with Ali.
Really? I'm a Bear and I can see exactly what people see in Ali.
First class batting average of over 50, Test average of 30+ (yes I know it's only a handful of tests), has proved explosive in one-dayers and can also take wickets.
I like him a lot and I hope he's in the Test side when were back over here.
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I don't know if you're a Worcester fan Paul, but I just can't see what the obsession is with Ali.
Really? I'm a Bear and I can see exactly what people see in Ali.
First class batting average of over 50, Test average of 30+ (yes I know it's only a handful of tests), has proved explosive in one-dayers and can also take wickets.
I like him a lot and I hope he's in the Test side when were back over here.
I was going to say. His Test century against Sri Lanka was one of the best I've seen and showed real grit and character. Contrast that with his ODI hundreds and you have a player who has the talent and brains to play to the situation. That's before you look at his spin bowling, which has already produced 22 wickets at an average of 28. I think it would be more of a surprise if people didn't want him in the team.
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I don't know if you're a Worcester fan Paul, but I just can't see what the obsession is with Ali.
Really? I'm a Bear and I can see exactly what people see in Ali.
First class batting average of over 50, Test average of 30+ (yes I know it's only a handful of tests), has proved explosive in one-dayers and can also take wickets.
I like him a lot and I hope he's in the Test side when were back over here.
You might want to check that one, as everything I've ever seen shows a county average in the 30's. I thought he was a revelation with the ball last summer and if he can continue and build on that form then I think he will be in the side as the number one spinner. If he's not the number one spinner, then I can't see him getting in the side, especially if Stokes cements a place at six. On batting alone, I think there are better options out there in domestic cricket (Taylor at Notts being one example).
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But that's just it it's not batting alone, he's an all rounder. His spin is very good and was unfairly derided at the start of last summer.
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Good knock from Stokes shame he couldn't get his hundred.
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But that's just it it's not batting alone, he's an all rounder. His spin is very good and was unfairly derided at the start of last summer.
Fair point Paul and his bowling was probably the highlight of last summer for me. I really hope he can build on it and become an established bowler at international level. Hopefully both will continue to develop and we'll have the nice headache of trying to fit Stokes and Moeen in the batting line up.
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Ignore. Can't read properly!
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That's a pretty poor effort from Buttler.
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The ease with which our tail has been blown away at times over the past couple of years is a bit of a concern.
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Terrible lower order effort this. Since Broad was hit in the face he has become a number 11. Our lower order collapses are happening with alarming regularity now.
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I can't help but think this has been inevitable today. It was a ridiculous decision to send in a night watchman last night, when there was never any intention of him facing a ball. Got what we deserved really.
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I think Jordan is a better option than Broad now that Broad's batting has completely gone. His bowling looks well below where it needs to be.
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But that's just it it's not batting alone, he's an all rounder. His spin is very good and was unfairly derided at the start of last summer.
Fair point Paul and his bowling was probably the highlight of last summer for me. I really hope he can build on it and become an established bowler at international level. Hopefully both will continue to develop and we'll have the nice headache of trying to fit Stokes and Moeen in the batting line up.
Add Woakes in as well, you could be looking at a lower middle order of Ali,Stokes, Buttler, Woakes, Jordan.
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Abject performance with the bat today. We looked clueless and only the last wicket stand between Jordan and Anderson prevented all of the hard work on day one of Bell, Root and Stokes being undone.
There are a few passengers in this side and they need to start contributing soon. Yes I mean you Cook and you Broad.
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Abject performance with the bat today. We looked clueless and only the last wicket stand between Jordan and Anderson prevented all of the hard work on day one of Bell, Root and Stokes being undone.
There are a few passengers in this side and they need to start contributing soon. Yes I mean you Cook and you Broad.
To be fair that's a great delivery from Broad to get Samuels. His batting has gone completely but if he can get wickets I'll forgive that. Unlucky to not get a 2nd there as well.
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Brilliant catch by Jordan.
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Jordan's slip fielding is outstanding.
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Jimmy bowled a couple of absolute pearlers to Chanderpaul a couple of overs back but since those he's been poor, too straight or too wide, I think he's trying a bit too hard because he got no reward from the first 2.
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I agree with Vaughan Stokes is much better when he bowls short, sharp spells of pace. They're trying to make him too 'English' and bowl line and length. It's all too similar.
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Stupid mistake to get his wicket chalked off though. If I'm honest I'm not sure what to think of his bowling, he can be very aggressive but I don't think he's quick enough to be the type of bowler you're suggesting.
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It's what he tends to do at Durham very successfully and I think he bowls a 'heavy' ball. In a short spell he can be up at around 88 mph, which is quick enough if you bowl aggressively.
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Stupid mistake to get his wicket chalked off though. If I'm honest I'm not sure what to think of his bowling, he can be very aggressive but I don't think he's quick enough to be the type of bowler you're suggesting.
If he can sustain form with the bat, he can be the fourth seamer and maybe perform the sort of role Kallis used to do for South Africa.
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Stupid mistake to get his wicket chalked off though. If I'm honest I'm not sure what to think of his bowling, he can be very aggressive but I don't think he's quick enough to be the type of bowler you're suggesting.
If he can sustain form with the bat, he can be the fourth seamer and maybe perform the sort of role Kallis used to do for South Africa.
If the other 3 seamers are taking wickets and we have a spinner who is threatening then I agree. I'm not sure we're at the point but this pitch doesn't seem to be a good measure. I'd still prefer the strike bowler to be up at 90+ consistently to justify having someone who does 3-4 over spells. I agree he does a decent job for Durham it's the step up to doing similar for England that I haven't seen and I think he needs to put a lot of effort in to achieve that.
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I see that Bears legend AD has left his role as the Saffers bowling coach. Given that he has an English wife I can't help but wonder if he wants the England role. Ottis Gibson is doing the job at the moment & has only been taken on for the current tour.
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Stupid mistake to get his wicket chalked off though. If I'm honest I'm not sure what to think of his bowling, he can be very aggressive but I don't think he's quick enough to be the type of bowler you're suggesting.
If he can sustain form with the bat, he can be the fourth seamer and maybe perform the sort of role Kallis used to do for South Africa.
If the other 3 seamers are taking wickets and we have a spinner who is threatening then I agree. I'm not sure we're at the point but this pitch doesn't seem to be a good measure. I'd still prefer the strike bowler to be up at 90+ consistently to justify having someone who does 3-4 over spells. I agree he does a decent job for Durham it's the step up to doing similar for England that I haven't seen and I think he needs to put a lot of effort in to achieve that.
I'm still hoping Finn can get back to those kind of speeds and be that bowler. I wouldn't be surprised if Anderson calls it a day after the Ashes, but I think Woakes could step up and do his job (the bowler who can move it around in the opening overs). If they can all fulfil thier pontential then a seam attack of Finn, Woakes, Jordan and Stokes doesn't look too bad on paper going forward.
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I like Woakes, but he's going to have to develop a lot to be on the level that Anderson is at.
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I like Woakes, but he's going to have to develop a lot to be on the level that Anderson is at.
Jimmy was not at the level he has been for the last few years when he first came in. Maybe Woakes won't reach the level of Anderson, but if he can get to the level of someone like Hoggard then he will be more than useful especially as he can also bat.
Here's one to consider - if we make short work of the Windies tail end and have a lead of around 100, would you enforce the follow on?
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I like Woakes, but he's going to have to develop a lot to be on the level that Anderson is at.
Jimmy was not at the level he has been for the last few years when he first came in. Maybe Woakes won't reach the level of Anderson, but if he can get to the level of someone like Hoggard then he will be more than useful especially as he can also bat.
Here's one to consider - if we make short work of the Windies tail end and have a lead of around 100, would you enforce the follow on?
Isn't the follow on figure 200?
To answer your question, we are exactly half way through the test and they are 7 down and trail by 120. Assuming the follow on figure was 100 and we take the last 3 wickets before tea then I would bat and not enforce the follow on. The pitch is offering nothing to the bowlers so time to give them a rest.
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Ali joining squad so they may as well send Rashid home.
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We were a bit toothless after lunch but pulled it back to dismiss the tail pretty quickly.
A very big session coming up for Jonathan Trott. I hope he can overcome his nerves and score big runs.
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Time for the top three to fire.
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Ali joining squad so they may as well send Rashid home.
He proved his fitness as a batsman against Yorkshire but he didn't bowl much so he may have been called in as a batsman only.
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Oh dear Trott.
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And Cook fails yet again.
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Such a poor shot when he needs to score big runs
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Both openers look all over the place. Someone on here mentioned that Cook's form is in terminal decline and there must be questions about him now.
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I firmly believe Cook needs to be dropped and have a year in county cricket. If he can regain his form there then he can come back to international cricket. At the moment keeping him in the international arena is ruining his career.
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I firmly believe Cook needs to be dropped and have a year in county cricket. If he can regain his form there then he can come back to international cricket. At the moment keeping him in the international arena is ruining his career.
agreed but that means going into successive series v the Kiwi's and the Convicts with 2 new openers............
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Well if your current opener hasn't made runs for two years where's the risk in a change? It's not my doing Cook or England any good.
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Well if your current opener hasn't made runs for two years where's the risk in a change? It's no my doing Cook or England any good.
I agree so Lyth and..............Trott has to go back to no3
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Well if your current opener hasn't made runs for two years where's the risk in a change? It's no my doing Cook or England any good.
I agree so Lyth and..............Trott has to go back to no3
Ali?
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Well if your current opener hasn't made runs for two years where's the risk in a change? It's no my doing Cook or England any good.
I agree so Lyth and..............Trott has to go back to no3
Ali?
Good idea but hasn't he been batting @ no6 for England lately?
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Well if your current opener hasn't made runs for two years where's the risk in a change? It's no my doing Cook or England any good.
I agree so Lyth and..............Trott has to go back to no3
I am a big fan of Trott and really hope I am wrong, but I have a feeling this will be a very short comeback. I think once someone has taken the option of walking away, it just isn't going to be the same when they come back. I think once that massive step has been taken, it is always there at the back at that person's mind as an option and they are just not the same again.
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Well if your current opener hasn't made runs for two years where's the risk in a change? It's no my doing Cook or England any good.
I agree so Lyth and..............Trott has to go back to no3
I am a big fan of Trott and really hope I am wrong, but I have a feeling this will be a very short comeback. I think once someone has taken the option of walking away, it just isn't going to be the same when they come back. I think once that massive step has been taken, it is always there at the back at that person's mind as an option and they are just not the same again.
You could well be right but I hope not............
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Well if your current opener hasn't made runs for two years where's the risk in a change? It's no my doing Cook or England any good.
I agree so Lyth and..............Trott has to go back to no3
I'm not sure Trott has shown he deserves a place in the side. Ballance is struggling at the moment but he had an excellent summer.
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Well if your current opener hasn't made runs for two years where's the risk in a change? It's no my doing Cook or England any good.
I agree so Lyth and..............Trott has to go back to no3
I'm not sure Trott has shown he deserves a place in the side. Ballance is struggling at the moment but he had an excellent summer.
Ballance has got to 30 so lets hope he can go on and make over a 100
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Well if your current opener hasn't made runs for two years where's the risk in a change? It's no my doing Cook or England any good.
I agree so Lyth and..............Trott has to go back to no3
I'm not sure Trott has shown he deserves a place in the side. Ballance is struggling at the moment but he had an excellent summer.
I'm hoping it's just a case of Ballance not playing enough cricket and he will find his form. I think the issues with Trott and Cook are more worrying. Dropping one of those two will be a big move though and would impact massively on their respective careers.
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I think that it's time for us to start planning for the future and invest test match time and experience in young players.
We have a core of excellent young players; Root, Buttler, Ballance, Woakes, Wood, Lyth and Jordan. Sure they don't always deliver but they should be at the core of our test side for a long time to come.
A few players in the side need to be moved on for the sake of the future of English cricket.
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It was encouraging to hear that Broad was bowling with pace and rhythm again. I'd seriously consider two of Lyth, Lees and Vince as our opening pair at the moment.
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Let's just see if they can play themselves into form.
Interesting over here in NZ was that everyone was saying that Guptill had to be dropped before the one day WC. He was abysmal leading up to the competition, but look what happened. Sometimes you just need to keep the faith. Cook and Trott are good players, so leave them to sort it out (as long as the team are winning).
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The thing with Cook is that he's been in terrible form for 2 years. I don't know about Guptill, but I guarantee he wasn't playing that badly for that long. I hope he turns it round, but there comes a point where someone has to be dropped.
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I agree, Cook is very lucky not to be under a lot more pressure than he is.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/11728.html?class=1;spanmax1=16+Apr+2015;spanmin1=16+Apr+2013;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround;view=match
Take away the Southampton test last summer which, in my opinion, saved him from being dropped for the ODIs sooner and you're left with a record that is nothing like good enough and with little evidence that it's improving, ignore stats and watch him bat, he's never been a great technician but now he looks like a village cricketer, his foot movement is particularly ridiculous right now. Sticking with him for the rest of the summer has just as much chance of ending him as an international as it does of seeing him find some form.
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The thing with Cook is that he's been in terrible form for 2 years. I don't know about Guptill, but I guarantee he wasn't playing that badly for that long. I hope he turns it round, but there comes a point where someone has to be dropped.
May 2013 was his last ton, against New Zealand at Headingley. I can't recall any English batsman lasting as long in the test side without contributing runs.
He's been found out and international sides know exactly where to bowl to him to (a) stop him scoring and (b) induce an edge to the slips, the keeper or for him to play on.
The Kiwis and the Aussies both have bowling attacks that will capitalise on this and bowl to plan. The Aussies are masters at it.
Time to go Mr Cook. Go back to county cricket, go out on loan to a first division side and work on your technique. There's little point in him staying at Essex; second division attacks are average at best. He need to be facing strong county attacks such as those from Warwickshire, Yorkshire and Durham.
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The thing with Cook is that he's been in terrible form for 2 years. I don't know about Guptill, but I guarantee he wasn't playing that badly for that long. I hope he turns it round, but there comes a point where someone has to be dropped.
May 2013 was his last ton, against New Zealand at Headingley. I can't recall any English batsman lasting as long in the test side without contributing runs.
He's been found out and international sides know exactly where to bowl to him to (a) stop him scoring and (b) induce an edge to the slips, the keeper or for him to play on.
The Kiwis and the Aussies both have bowling attacks that will capitalise on this and bowl to plan. The Aussies are masters at it.
Time to go Mr Cook. Go back to county cricket, go out on loan to a first division side and work on your technique. There's little point in him staying at Essex; second division attacks are average at best. He need to be facing strong county attacks such as those from Warwickshire, Yorkshire and Durham.
I'm not sure how much of it is a technical issue, as much as a confidence thing. Being Captain doesn't help, because he's having to think about too much. Cook has never had a great technique, but what he used to be very good at was leaving the ball. He used to have great patience and the bowlers would eventually have to bowl at him and then he'd play his scoring strokes. Now though he's going after deliveries he never would have played. Regardless though the international arena is not the place to try and recover form. He needs to go back to county cricket to regain his confidence and remember how he was successful.
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If Cook was a brilliant proactive captain then you just might be able to forgive his form, but he isn't.
And Trott needs to go back to number three where is is more comfortable.
We have four more Tests to find a new opening pair before The Ashes and we need to start that procedure straight away.
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I think that technique and confidence the same thing. A batsman suffers with a technical issue outside off stump and in turn it affects his confidence.
It's a bit like team spirit. Sides who are sucessful would have you believe they have shedloads of team spirit. In reality they are just as much a band of guys who may or may not on just as you find in every shop, office, factory or struggling sports team.
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If Cook was a brilliant proactive captain then you just might be able to forgive his form, but he isn't.
And Trott needs to go back to number three where is is more comfortable.
We have four more Tests to find a new opening pair before The Ashes and we need to start that procedure straight away.
See I don't think Trott has done enough to oust Ballance as number 3. Ballance had an excellent summer and yesterday was showing signs of getting back to his best. Dropping him for Trott would be basing it on Trott's past form, which isn't the way to go.
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If Cook was a brilliant proactive captain then you just might be able to forgive his form, but he isn't.
And Trott needs to go back to number three where is is more comfortable.
We have four more Tests to find a new opening pair before The Ashes and we need to start that procedure straight away.
See I don't think Trott has done enough to oust Ballance as number 3. Ballance had an excellent summer and yesterday was showing signs of getting back to his best. Dropping him for Trott would be basing it on Trott's past form, which isn't the way to go.
I agree. After last summer we should be looking at 'undroppables' (for various reasons) of Ballance, Bell, Root, Anderson and Moeen and then the progressing set of Buttler, Woakes, Jordan and hopefully Stokes if he can keep scoring runs and getting a few wickets. That leaves you looking for an opener and then either another opener or a 2nd spinner. For the rest of this series I'd stick with Cook (I don't agree with dropping the captain mid tour) and go with the following:
Cook
Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Moeen
Buttler
Stokes
Jordan
Broad
Anderson
Them into the summer Woakes comes in for Broad and if Cook hasn't managed to get runs you push Moeen to the top, Stokes to 6 and Rashid in at 8. That gives you 6 front line bowlers meaning Rashid, Stokes and Jordan can be used as strike bowlers and go all out for wickets rather than the way the latter 2 have been used so far which has clipped their wings to an extent. The other advantage is that, with only Anderson as an experienced bowler, if one of them has a bad day it's pretty easy to take them out of the attack for 30-40 overs and not overwork the others.
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Yeah I'd be happy enough with that. I still have some concerns over Woakes ability as a front line bowler in Tests, but he's done fairly well.
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Fine hundred from Ballance. Think that ends talk of Trott at 3.
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Fine hundred from Ballance. Think that ends talk of Trott at 3.
Not if Ballance opens it doesn't.
Drop Cook, Ballance and Lyth opening, Trott at 3.
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Why move someone who is proving a real success to accommodate someone who hasn't proven he really deserves to be back? Trott was a quality player, but number 3 is Ballance's role now and he's proved very capable. We shouldn't be trying to shoe horn number 3's into being openers. Just play real openers.
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Fine hundred from Ballance. Think that ends talk of Trott at 3.
Not if Ballance opens it doesn't.
Drop Cook, Ballance and Lyth opening, Trott at 3.
Woah! Had enough of England moving our players up and down the order! Ballance hasn't opened the batting for Yorkshire, leave him where he is and where he scores runs please!
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On Ballance he is well suited to one down.
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Fine hundred from Ballance. Think that ends talk of Trott at 3.
Not if Ballance opens it doesn't.
Drop Cook, Ballance and Lyth opening, Trott at 3.
Woah! Had enough of England moving our players up and down the order! Ballance hasn't opened the batting for Yorkshire, leave him where he is and where he scores runs please!
Agree 100%. They've tried to shoehorn Trott in unsuccessfully in this Test let's not mess Ballance about. If Trott is good enough to get in the team he'll get in the team, but currently Ballance is better.
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Jordan is such a good slip.
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Great
Jordan is such a good slip.
Great catch
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If Cook was a brilliant proactive captain then you just might be able to forgive his form, but he isn't.
And Trott needs to go back to number three where is is more comfortable.
We have four more Tests to find a new opening pair before The Ashes and we need to start that procedure straight away.
See I don't think Trott has done enough to oust Ballance as number 3. Ballance had an excellent summer and yesterday was showing signs of getting back to his best. Dropping him for Trott would be basing it on Trott's past form, which isn't the way to go.
I agree. After last summer we should be looking at 'undroppables' (for various reasons) of Ballance, Bell, Root, Anderson and Moeen and then the progressing set of Buttler, Woakes, Jordan and hopefully Stokes if he can keep scoring runs and getting a few wickets. That leaves you looking for an opener and then either another opener or a 2nd spinner. For the rest of this series I'd stick with Cook (I don't agree with dropping the captain mid tour) and go with the following:
Cook
Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Moeen
Buttler
Stokes
Jordan
Broad
Anderson
That looks a well balanced side and the encoraging thing is that the majority of them are younger players. I still hold hope that Finn will recover his form at some point and give an extra dimension in the bowling department.
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Fine hundred from Ballance. Think that ends talk of Trott at 3.
Not if Ballance opens it doesn't.
Drop Cook, Ballance and Lyth opening, Trott at 3.
Woah! Had enough of England moving our players up and down the order! Ballance hasn't opened the batting for Yorkshire, leave him where he is and where he scores runs please!
Agree. The 3,4 and 5 of Ballance, Bell and Root is settled and working well. I wouldn't look to change it.
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Fine hundred from Ballance. Think that ends talk of Trott at 3.
Not if Ballance opens it doesn't.
Drop Cook, Ballance and Lyth opening, Trott at 3.
Woah! Had enough of England moving our players up and down the order! Ballance hasn't opened the batting for Yorkshire, leave him where he is and where he scores runs please!
Agree. The 3,4 and 5 of Ballance, Bell and Root is settled and working well. I wouldn't look to change it.
Agree completely, we should be building the team around those 3. If Cook can't get his game sorted I'd make Root captain as well, I like middle order batsmen as captains, far enough down that they're not thinking about their own innings in the field, no other parts to his game to worry about, just do the business with the bat and then get the balance between aggressive and sensible right in the field.
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Fine hundred from Ballance. Think that ends talk of Trott at 3.
Not if Ballance opens it doesn't.
Drop Cook, Ballance and Lyth opening, Trott at 3.
Woah! Had enough of England moving our players up and down the order! Ballance hasn't opened the batting for Yorkshire, leave him where he is and where he scores runs please!
Agree. The 3,4 and 5 of Ballance, Bell and Root is settled and working well. I wouldn't look to change it.
Absolutely and those clamouring for a Pietersen return seem to overlook that fact.
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Fine hundred from Ballance. Think that ends talk of Trott at 3.
Not if Ballance opens it doesn't.
Drop Cook, Ballance and Lyth opening, Trott at 3.
Woah! Had enough of England moving our players up and down the order! Ballance hasn't opened the batting for Yorkshire, leave him where he is and where he scores runs please!
Agree. The 3,4 and 5 of Ballance, Bell and Root is settled and working well. I wouldn't look to change it.
Absolutely and those clamouring for a Pietersen return seem to overlook that fact.
I just wish someone in the England camp would be bold enough to come out and say that the door is closed on Pietersen and they are moving on. The easy route would be to use his age and say that they are looking to build a young side.
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It would make sense but unfortunately his mates in the media aren't ever going to let it drop.
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I think that's purely over the way it happened though. He was dropped and made the scapegoat for what was an appalling team performance despite him being on of the few batsmen who actually did stand up in that tournament. If 1-2 of the other batsmen had put in a good tour and he'd been dropped on age at the end I don't think there'd have been anything like as many complaints.
Aside from that KP should still be in the ODI and T20 squads.
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I don't think anyone should come out and rule KP out, because I don't think anyone who makes themselves available should be available. If that player goes on to make big runs and someone already in the team in struggling then they should be discussed when it comes to selection.
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I like middle order batsmen as captains as well and would like to see Root in the role.
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Slow start....1 run in 4 overs....come on England !
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Smith has a rush of blood and gets out. Very weird to do that after playing so well.
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Jimmy level with Beefy.
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get that record Jimmy and then concentrate on the next 10/20/30 wickets
Windies going to implode now ?
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Chanderpaul is the key really, once he's gone it's a matter of time but whilst he's still there you've got a guy who has made a career of occupying the crease.
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Jimmy takes another wicket and breaks the record
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It was disappointing that we couldn't finish them off but I think that was a really good test match.
Credit to the Windies for a stoic performance in the 4th innings. Jason Holder batted sensibly
and saw his side through.
During the last 15 overs I felt we bowled too many nothing balls, we did not apply enough pressure. That said there are a lot of positives to take from the test with the only negatives the failure of both openers in both innings.
Jimmy deserves his record and I think he will play on for a few more years yet. I did wonder if he would retire after this summer's Ashes but I think he will play on and easily hit 450 test wickets.
Maybe things aren't as bad as we think. Sort the openers out and who knows?
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I'd suggest we put too much reliance on Tredwell and he showed why he'd never before moved from the ODI squad into the test squad, he's not a bad bowler but if people aren't trying to hit him out of the ground he doesn't create enough pressure, Root was much more threatening.
I also thought we were too passive for big parts of this match, not overly negative but not really forcing the issue, which is pretty much my biggest criticism of Cook as captain, he's too willing to let games drift waiting for something to happen rather than trying to force things.
The other thing is, this is a weak West Indies side so we're probably exactly where people think, we have nothing at the top but lots of runs at 3, 4 and 5 and then we have the most exciting wk/batsman in world cricket and we have an attack that looks like it's missing a top class spinner (but Moeen could well fix that) and an express strike bowler.
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Great to see Jimmy get the record. Shame we couldn't get the win, but well played Jason Holder. Cook and Trott need to be looked at and I'd bring Ali in because he's a more attacking bowler than Tredwell.
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How many West Indians are in the IPL, quite a few I would suggest, so not sure a draw there is a decent result.
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How many West Indians are in the IPL, quite a few I would suggest, so not sure a draw there is a decent result.
The pitch was pretty dead so a draw was always likely, if a little disappointing. As others have said, there are definitely some positives going forward.
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If the pitch was so dead, what were the positives? I am not sure that even the test team is going in the right direction.
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If the pitch was so dead, what were the positives? I am not sure that even the test team is going in the right direction.
we took 17 wickets
We never looked liked losing
The middle order is looking good
Broad is getting back to his best with the ball
Sure there are negatives but a dead pitch really does hinder things.
This was a test match that was still alive going into the last hour. That is what test cricket is about.
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Poor captaining by Cook. He batted too long and then failed to exert the necessary pressure on Windies.
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Poor captaining by Cook. He batted too long and then failed to exert the necessary pressure on Windies.
I don't think the timing of the declaration is an issue. He declared with more than 4 sessions in which to take 10 wickets. We started well and a dead pitch plus stoic batting from the likes of Jason Holder held us off.
I felt we didn't put them under pressure in the last hour. Too many balls were bowled that were just too comfortable for the batsman. There was nothing in the corridor of uncertainty to induce edges to the slips or the keeper.
Cook had a reasonable game as captain, piss poor as an opener mind, and his attack let him down.
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Cook didn't captain badly and the declaration was early enough. Overall I think we played quite well, but the batting of Cook and Trott is a big concern. On an aside I really like Jason Holder he's got a lot of talent and has great character. He's the sort of player West Indies needs to be build around.
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Cook didn't captain badly and the declaration was early enough. Overall I think we played quite well, but the batting of Cook and Trott is a big concern. On an aside I really like Jason Holder he's got a lot of talent and has great character. He's the sort of player West Indies needs to be build around.
From what Tony Cozier said on TMS they are doing just that. He said, and he's not one to exaggerate, that they have some players coming through which could make the Windies challenge again. They won't return to the highs of the 70s and 80s but they will prove to be a tougher opposition.
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Poor captaining by Cook. He batted too long and then failed to exert the necessary pressure on Windies.
Don't agree.. He could have dangled a carrot but you saw how dead that wicket was, 400 was chaseable of the likes of Chanderpaul had got going.
I think it was more down to some average bowling from the seamers towards the end, the fields were set okay but they barely induced a chance.
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People always bang on about Jimmy's average, but it's below 30 now and if it hadn't been for his first 20 Tests, when they messed his action about, he'd probably have an average of about 26. He's an excellent bowler.
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I do find it weird that Moores said Trott has earned his chance. Well what about Lyth? Could anyone do anymore!
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It sounds like the pitch is a slow turner. So Ali should be in for Trewdwell and if they have anything about them they should pick Rashid to replace one of the seamers. There's no point in him being there if he's not going to play in this situation.
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Lyth should come in for Trott as well, but I doubt that'll happen.
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Start delayed in Grenada so no news on the toss or the team yet.
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Won the toss and we're bowling, that's a good toss to win.
One change is that Ali is in for Tredwell.
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I'm glad Ali's in, but if Trott doesn't perform here he should go and they should send Rashid home because they're completely wasting his time.
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Raining again
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Stokes is not yet a good enough bowler to be the 4th bowler. Especially considering Ali is still very much in the developing stage as a spinner.
There looks to be a great amount of pressure on Anderson and Broad to take the baulk of the wickets here
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I'm glad Ali's in, but if Trott doesn't perform here he should go and they should send Rashid home because they're completely wasting his time.
I just can't understand the situation with him. I can understand that they see Moeen as the number one spinner at the moment and that he is a top order batsman to boot, but I struggle to see why they played Tredwell over him in the last game. I accept that I don't see everything that goes on behind the scenes and maybe he just hasn't impressed, but I thought he would at least have been given a go.
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Stokes is not yet a good enough bowler to be the 4th bowler. Especially considering Ali is still very much in the developing stage as a spinner.
There looks to be a great amount of pressure on Anderson and Broad to take the baulk of the wickets here
Disagree I don't think you can class Ali as developing when he's got 20 wickets at 28 and against India. He's much better than developing. Stokes is fine as 4th seamer, but the second and third sElmer need to do their job.
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Oh and Rashid definitely should have been picked on this pitch.
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Good work though Jordan!
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Just watching the highlights from the morning session, that wicket from Jimmy is a stunner, that'd have done for much better batsman than Braithwaite. It's when he gets one like that right that you see why he's one of the best bowlers of all time.
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I wouldn't go as far to say he's one of the best bowlers of all time. One of the best English bowlers yes, but not across the board.
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I wouldn't go as far to say he's one of the best bowlers of all time. One of the best English bowlers yes, but not across the board.
14th most test wickets ever, I think it's justified, he'll probably end up 12th by the end of this season (5 behind ntini and 20 behind Ambrose, he's also 11 behind Steyn but I'd guess Steyn will get a few himself).
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Stokes is not yet a good enough bowler to be the 4th bowler. Especially considering Ali is still very much in the developing stage as a spinner.
There looks to be a great amount of pressure on Anderson and Broad to take the baulk of the wickets here
Disagree I don't think you can class Ali as developing when he's got 20 wickets at 28 and against India. He's much better than developing. Stokes is fine as 4th seamer, but the second and third sElmer need to do their job.
I know you rate him very highly, but that was done mostly in one series Paul. Let's wait to see how his stats look after a number of series (similar figures in the Ashes would be nice) before making judgments.
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Stokes is not yet a good enough bowler to be the 4th bowler. Especially considering Ali is still very much in the developing stage as a spinner.
There looks to be a great amount of pressure on Anderson and Broad to take the baulk of the wickets here
Disagree I don't think you can class Ali as developing when he's got 20 wickets at 28 and against India. He's much better than developing. Stokes is fine as 4th seamer, but the second and third sElmer need to do their job.
I know you rate him very highly, but that was done mostly in one series Paul. Let's wait to see how his stats look after a number of series (similar figures in the Ashes would be nice) before making judgments.
In his favour he had 1 series where he did ok but didn't have the threat so he went away and worked on it before coming back faster and far more dangerous. That ability to learn and adapt is why I personally think he's a definite front line spinner, that intelligence is a key requirement. Very unlucky not to get the wicket there, lovely delivery and well worth a review.
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He can really turn it and that's the most important thing, you can learn the control etc. Stokes is doing well.
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Stokes is not yet a good enough bowler to be the 4th bowler. Especially considering Ali is still very much in the developing stage as a spinner.
There looks to be a great amount of pressure on Anderson and Broad to take the baulk of the wickets here
Disagree I don't think you can class Ali as developing when he's got 20 wickets at 28 and against India. He's much better than developing. Stokes is fine as 4th seamer, but the second and third sElmer need to do their job.
I know you rate him very highly, but that was done mostly in one series Paul. Let's wait to see how his stats look after a number of series (similar figures in the Ashes would be nice) before making judgments.
In his favour he had 1 series where he did ok but didn't have the threat so he went away and worked on it before coming back faster and far more dangerous. That ability to learn and adapt is why I personally think he's a definite front line spinner, that intelligence is a key requirement. Very unlucky not to get the wicket there, lovely delivery and well worth a review.
Obviously, I really hope he can become a top international all-rounder, especially as he is from Birmingham and it's always good to see local lads doing well. His bowling against India was the highlight of the summer for me and hopefully he can produce that kind of form on a regular basis and in the different formats of the game. Only time will tell if he can.
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Jordan is bowling well and not being helped by the fielders.
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I get the sense that Jordan is really close to being a very good bowler.
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Is Broad ill? Or deliberately bowling in the 70s.
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I get the sense that Jordan is really close to being a very good bowler.
I've said it a few times, there's a genuinely exciting and dangerous bowler in there, it just needs to come together, maybe needs a touch more pace to become genuinely world class though.
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Moeen looks a bit rusty today.
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I can't help but feel our players would be better off playing for their counties at this stage of the season than having to slog their guts out bowling on featherbeds in hot conditions. I guess that's one of the problems when international cricket funds the game in this country though.
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I feel sorry for Tredwell .No way did he deserve to be dropped after the first test. England always seem to have a fall guy and i think Tredwell is the current one.
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We let a lot of chances go there and we'll need to be a lot more clinical on the second day.
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Stokes was consistently up and above 90mph yesterday.
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I feel sorry for Tredwell .No way did he deserve to be dropped after the first test. England always seem to have a fall guy and i think Tredwell is the current one.
He wasn't dropped, he was replaced by the guy that he was injury cover for, which is only right, Moeen is the first choice spinner for the England test side, if he's fit he plays until that's no longer the case unless someone does something spectacular at county level and forces their way in. Tredwell had a good first innings in the first test but was, in my opinion, very poor in the 2nd innings and played a big part in us becoming very flat in the middle of the 5th day, that's not the sort of performance that elevates you to first choice in my opinion.
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Tredwell didn't do enough to justify his selection really. His second innings was really poor.
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Bowled too wide again today.
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I wouldn't go as far to say he's one of the best bowlers of all time. One of the best English bowlers yes, but not across the board.
14th most test wickets ever, I think it's justified, he'll probably end up 12th by the end of this season (5 behind ntini and 20 behind Ambrose, he's also 11 behind Steyn but I'd guess Steyn will get a few himself).
How many does he get in friendly Englush conditions compared to overseas? The best bowlers of all time do it anywhere on any surface. Being the 14th leading wicket taker is great as a stat but is he better than Trueman? Statham? Larwood? A truly great bowler would have seen yesterday's conditions and caused havoc. Anderson has the ability but not the consistency. Malcom Marshall, Waqar Younis, Imran Khan, Allan Donald, Brett Lee, Michael Holding, Abdul Qadir etc come on to bowl and you would genuinely fear a wicket falling and they all have less wickets than Anderson (and probably tests but I don't know). With Anderson you just hope.
No, he's not one of the best of all time.
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I'd be surprised if this doesn't end as a draw now, there's not much in the pitch and a fair bit of time is lost without there really being much chance of getting extra overs in at the end of the day.
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I'd be surprised if this doesn't end as a draw now, there's not much in the pitch and a fair bit of time is lost without there really being much chance of getting extra overs in at the end of the day.
I don't know. I'm not sure what the weather forecast is but get through them quick enough, and I think the problem is that we're just a bit rusty rather than not playing well, bat well for a day and a half and I think we'll get through them. I still think we're favourites. need to get back on soon though.
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I wouldn't go as far to say he's one of the best bowlers of all time. One of the best English bowlers yes, but not across the board.
14th most test wickets ever, I think it's justified, he'll probably end up 12th by the end of this season (5 behind ntini and 20 behind Ambrose, he's also 11 behind Steyn but I'd guess Steyn will get a few himself).
How many does he get in friendly Englush conditions compared to overseas? The best bowlers of all time do it anywhere on any surface. Being the 14th leading wicket taker is great as a stat but is he better than Trueman? Statham? Larwood? A truly great bowler would have seen yesterday's conditions and caused havoc. Anderson has the ability but not the consistency. Malcom Marshall, Waqar Younis, Imran Khan, Allan Donald, Brett Lee, Michael Holding, Abdul Qadir etc come on to bowl and you would genuinely fear a wicket falling and they all have less wickets than Anderson (and probably tests but I don't know). With Anderson you just hope.
No, he's not one of the best of all time.
Have to agree with that Peter. If the ball is not swinging he is nowhere near the same threat, unlike some of the names you have mentioned above.
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Good to see Broad's wicket ball was clocked at 91mph
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Very encouraging spell from Broad. This is him near his best, which bodes well moving forward.
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And yet another frustrating last wicket stand.....
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I wouldn't go as far to say he's one of the best bowlers of all time. One of the best English bowlers yes, but not across the board.
14th most test wickets ever, I think it's justified, he'll probably end up 12th by the end of this season (5 behind ntini and 20 behind Ambrose, he's also 11 behind Steyn but I'd guess Steyn will get a few himself).
How many does he get in friendly Englush conditions compared to overseas? The best bowlers of all time do it anywhere on any surface. Being the 14th leading wicket taker is great as a stat but is he better than Trueman? Statham? Larwood? A truly great bowler would have seen yesterday's conditions and caused havoc. Anderson has the ability but not the consistency. Malcom Marshall, Waqar Younis, Imran Khan, Allan Donald, Brett Lee, Michael Holding, Abdul Qadir etc come on to bowl and you would genuinely fear a wicket falling and they all have less wickets than Anderson (and probably tests but I don't know). With Anderson you just hope.
No, he's not one of the best of all time.
Have to agree with that Peter. If the ball is not swinging he is nowhere near the same threat, unlike some of the names you have mentioned above.
Anderson has had great series' in Australia, UAE and India in fairness. If you take away his first couple of years (where the powers that be completely fucked him over by trying to mess with his action), then his test bowling average is around 26. When you further take into account the fact that he's been bowled into the ground on numerous occasions, then his figures don't reflect too badly with those listed above.
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And yet another frustrating last wicket stand.....
To be honest I think it's been a pretty piss poor bowing effort in general.
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Anderson is a quality bowler and one of the most skilled swing bowlers I've seen. England really need to get out of the habit of conceding lots of runs to the last wicket pair.
Massive innings for Cook and Trott.
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Trott and Cook looking pretty shaky at moment.
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They've got a start they need to go on now.
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I wouldn't go as far to say he's one of the best bowlers of all time. One of the best English bowlers yes, but not across the board.
14th most test wickets ever, I think it's justified, he'll probably end up 12th by the end of this season (5 behind ntini and 20 behind Ambrose, he's also 11 behind Steyn but I'd guess Steyn will get a few himself).
How many does he get in friendly Englush conditions compared to overseas? The best bowlers of all time do it anywhere on any surface. Being the 14th leading wicket taker is great as a stat but is he better than Trueman? Statham? Larwood? A truly great bowler would have seen yesterday's conditions and caused havoc. Anderson has the ability but not the consistency. Malcom Marshall, Waqar Younis, Imran Khan, Allan Donald, Brett Lee, Michael Holding, Abdul Qadir etc come on to bowl and you would genuinely fear a wicket falling and they all have less wickets than Anderson (and probably tests but I don't know). With Anderson you just hope.
No, he's not one of the best of all time.
Have to agree with that Peter. If the ball is not swinging he is nowhere near the same threat, unlike some of the names you have mentioned above.
Anderson has had great series' in Australia, UAE and India in fairness. If you take away his first couple of years (where the powers that be completely fucked him over by trying to mess with his action), then his test bowling average is around 26. When you further take into account the fact that he's been bowled into the ground on numerous occasions, then his figures don't reflect too badly with those listed above.
On top of that I think expectations play a lot against him. If the ball moves (like yesterday) people expect him to get 5 or 6 wickets and demolish attacks. He has done at times but you're not going to do that every time and none of the people named did that every time either.
The bowling him into the ground line is important too, for a huge part of his career he's played in a 4 man attack and been the go to man when things aren't happening, which has meant him bowling a lot more overs than you want from a wicket taking quick. On top of that his average was used as a stick to beat him with for a while which has led to him being quite 'safety first' with the field, often arguing to remove catchers to bring in people to cover the singles.
In truth at his best (I'll be fair here I think he's a little past that now) he's technically probably the most accomplished swing bowler of the last 30-40years (it's hard to judge prior to that without footage, etc, everything becomes hearsay and stats) he can get natural and reverse swing in both directions and he can vary the level of swing. I agree that does make him particularly suited to English conditions but he's probably the one English bowler that I can forgive for that because he's mastered it. Other bowlers have mastered their native conditions to produce unplayable spells which they struggle to reproduce abroad and don't get the same criticism, a hell of a lot of the spinners from the indian sub-continent serve as evidence of that.
For me he's in the top 15 or so of all time by any legitimate measure.
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He's excellent and underrated by many.
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To carry on the bowler thing a little, I can only think of 3 bowlers who I've seen who've looked world class in almost all conditions, Murali, Warne and Mcgrath. Anderson isn't in that league (which probably includes a couple more from previous generations) but he's most definitely in the group below.
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Anderson = Marshall? Never
Anderson = Hadlee? Never
Anderson = Ambrose? Never
Anderson = Akram? Never
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There are many more bowlers that are far superior to Anderson. Although he has been one of the best English bowlers of his generation I think paul you're being slightly too English in extolling his virtues. he's mastered one art and is as good as anyone - a bit like Beckham with his ability with the ball in crossing and passing - but as good as they are in their generation that aren't anywhere near the 'greats' of the game.
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He is one of the most skilled swing bowlers of all time. If he only has one virtue then 385 wickets and counting is pretty good.
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Big day today Trott needs to get 50+, but Cook needs a century. I think that's the only way he can start to move on from his terrible form. It's also important from an England having a chance of winning the game that they score quote quickly, so it's going to be a challenge.
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Anderson suffers from the hype that surrounds his being the best English bowler of his generation. He is an excellent exponent of swing bowling and has continually developed this skill throughout his career.
His record does bear out his preference for English conditions, before the start of this test he's taken 250 wickets in home tests and 136 overseas. A quick glance at Cricinfo reveals that your typically English bowlers prefer home conditions, with Trueman, Botham and Statham all taking more wickets in home tests that they took overseas.
I don't think that he's the best English bowler of all time, he's the best that we have at the moment and will probably end up with over 450 wickets by virtue of the number of tests that he is likely to play.
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I was surprised to read that this is our best opening stand since the Perth test in December 2013 when Cook and Carberry put on 85 for the first wicket. There have been an awful lot of tests since then.
Our batting has been in terminal decline for several years so we really need our openers to start building solid foundations for big totals.
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I was surprised to read that this is our best opening stand since the Perth test in December 2013 when Cook and Carberry put on 85 for the first wicket. There have been an awful lot of tests since then.
Our batting has been in terminal decline for several years so we really need our openers to start building solid foundations for big totals.
I wasn't that surprised given that Cook's form has been dire and his partners haven't done much.
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There are many more bowlers that are far superior to Anderson. Although he has been one of the best English bowlers of his generation I think paul you're being slightly too English in extolling his virtues. he's mastered one art and is as good as anyone - a bit like Beckham with his ability with the ball in crossing and passing - but as good as they are in their generation that aren't anywhere near the 'greats' of the game.
It's nothing to do with being too English it's to do with credit where it's due. Comparisons to football aren't suitable because there's no fair way to do the comparison. All you can do is compare him to other bowlers and, as you yourself state, he is a genuine master of swing bowling who, in my opinion, will be the player coaches in any country refer to when discussing the art. He might not be as effective as the best spinners or express quicks (largely because swing bowling doesn't attract many LBWs or catches in front of the bat) but at his form of bowling he is the equal of anyone, that makes him one of the best of all time, even if it has led to some expensive periods that have killed his average.
On top of that if people from 40 years ago are defended for less wickets by virtue of not playing as many games (which is fair) then it has to be given back that the average run rate in test cricket has increased significantly in the same timeframe so economy figures are equally incomparable. Once you get into that you start to ignore more and more stats until it becomes a pointless exercise.
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Cook is starting to play the shots he played when he was at his best.
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We've got today and until tea tomorrow to compile a lead that could give the Windies a nervy last four sessions. I think a lead of anything around the 270 mark could give us a chance of winning the game.
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Graeme Swann is awful on TMS. He's been singing, he's been adopting fake West Indian accents and in general he's been oafish. Send him packing please TMS, he's spoiling a wonderful commentary/programme.
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We've got today and until tea tomorrow to compile a lead that could give the Windies a nervy last four sessions. I think a lead of anything around the 270 mark could give us a chance of winning the game.
so 550-600, I can't see us making that but 450-500 might be enough to bowl them and have 15-20 overs to knock of the remainder, it means we need 4-5 very good sessions in row though.
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We've got today and until tea tomorrow to compile a lead that could give the Windies a nervy last four sessions. I think a lead of anything around the 270 mark could give us a chance of winning the game.
so 550-600, I can't see us making that but 450-500 might be enough to bowl them and have 15-20 overs to knock of the remainder, it means we need 4-5 very good sessions in row though.
On reflection, that is probably a more realistic aim. Time to ditch the cautious approach for once.
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Cook getting a century is very important. If he could get bank to his best it would be massive for England.
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Oh dear, but Cook played like Cook used to at least.
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England remind me of Villa under Lambert. Some really good players but swamped by a negativity and scared to lose playing within themselves. The scoring rate has been really poor again this morning.
Cook and Moores a very boring duo.
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Someone needs to wind Ballance up, I like him but this isn't the job he should be doing, 2 an over suits them much more than us.
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I agree, Paul. Root has gone out there and shown that quick scoring is possible on this pitch. Ballance is set now - he needs to up his run-rate.
More shots like that will do.
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Can we have a few more overs from blackwood, you'd be looking at t20 batting then! For anyone who missed it 14 from the over makes it look better than it was. The first 5 could all have gone to the rope.
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Better since the new ball, putting a lot of pressure on now but we're still probably 40-50 runs behind where I'd have liked.
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Not great for Moeen.
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Moeen doesn't look mentally match fit, if that makes sense. He's making really poor decisions.
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Hopefully the pitch breaking up will give him a bit of encouragement with the ball in the 2nd innings, 2-3 wickets there and it will make the world of difference. That said I agree, he look a bit undercooked, maybe flying him out wasn't the best idea.
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Yeah hopefully. Root is absolutely brilliant, I think he could go on to be our top run scorer.
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It's hardly surprising Mo looks undercooked. He's just back from injury and had one game for Worcester where he hardly bowled. Also since last August he's played nothing but short format cricket.
Root was magnificent yesterday. His record since he was dropped for the Sydney test last year is remarkable and he averages over 100.
I thought Cook and Trott were set for tons and it's a pity they didn't get them. That said I did detect a return of some confidence, particularly from Cook.
The first session today will be interesting. Buttler could cause some serious damage and allow us to declare before lunch leaving five and a bit sessions in which to bowl them out. It's a big ask and I do wonder if we will pay for the "safe" selection of only one spinner. Two spinners on this pitch would cause real problems to the batsmen.
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Root looks understandably pissed off with a pathetic bit of cricket from Anderson.
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Very sloppy from Anderson. Get your bat down, for goodness' sake.
That said, what a pleasure that Root innings was to watch. We have a hell of a player here - 2000 runs in tests already! - so how long do we think it'll be before we ruin him by making him captain?
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Let's hope Cook gets his mojo back before that happens!
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Really struggling here now.
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Our bowling in the afternoon session was poor. We seem incapable of making something happen, instead we toss the ball to the Umpire, moaning that it's not reversing and wanting a change.
At times it resembled the last 10 or 15 overs in Antigua, an attack that does not know what to do when the ball isn't swinging.
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I take responsibility for that one, had a fiver on paddy power and decided to bet on the next wicket, flipped a coin to pick a batsman and he went down 2 balls later. Not going to tempt fate by trying again.
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Stokes trying to bowl fast is our best option at the mo.
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General consensus on TMS after the game was that the bowling attack doesn't offer enough variety and that Plunkett and Rashid should play in the next test. Noone on there could understand why Ali had been rushed back into the side.
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I said it at the start of this test and i will say it again,no way should Tredwell have been dropped after the first test for Ali who is a average bowler at best.
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Well its England under Moores. No real direction and chopping and changing just hoping to find the best 11. Sacking Pietersen set the tone for the current England regime and instantly made it a truculent one. Rather than concentrate on managing the best we have, bringing the best young players in to supplement the decent team that we have it became very disruptive. Downton has gone and the rest should follow.
Whatever you may think about Pietersen the whole situation was handled disastrously and he has won the PR 'war' ever since. It will be difficult to see him ever playing for England again but we have really never recovered from that period. The management need to be removed from office straight away - including Cook although I'd retain him as a player - and get back to concentrating on picking the best team to win matches for England.
We always hear that we're preparing for this World Cup or that World Cup and never perform when we're there. A huge change is needed otherwise we will stay treading water where we are now struggling against a poor West Indies. I acknowledge that its a particularly flat track at the moment but the verve is wrong, the selections are wrong, and the bowlers don't seem to be bowling to much of a plan.
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I said it at the start of this test and i will say it again,no way should Tredwell have been dropped after the first test for Ali who is a average bowler at best.
He's much better than average, but he's clearly undercooked.
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With Stokes bowling nicely the other 3 seamers are too similar. We needed either Rashid or Plunkett or Wood. Any one of those would have offered something different.
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Brilliant bowling from Jimmy today and that run out is spectacular.
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If we can knock these two last wickets over cheaply and quickly we should win this from here.
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World class from Anderson today and he bowled quick.
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Our fielding has been excellent, which generally is an indication of us improving.
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Huge wicket for Mo.
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Well done Mo.
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Yeah good on him, the one that got Gabriel is a belter to be fair.
Sessions like this morning are why Jimmy is so good, brilliant with the ball and in the field, turned this from a likely draw to a very winnable match.
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Jimmy showed why he's one of the best. That spell on a flat pitch was magnificent. Moeen ended with good figures as well.
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Hmmm Trott not convincing again.
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Sorry Ali is a average bowler,look at his average in the county championship if you dont believe me. He takes three wickets of tail enders and i suppose he is world class. When he takes wickets against the likes of the Aussies and the South Africans i will change my opinion
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Yep you're right India are notorious for their inability to play spin...
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Excellent win in the end. Jimmy was brilliant and Cook was finally looking like the old Cook again.
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Sorry Ali is a average bowler,look at his average in the county championship if you dont believe me. He takes three wickets of tail enders and i suppose he is world class. When he takes wickets against the likes of the Aussies and the South Africans i will change my opinion
What a bizarre post, no one has said he's world class, people have said that he looks good enough to stick with and see how he develops. This match is difficult to judge him on because he doesn't look 'ready' after his injury but he still took 4 for 98, yes they were tail enders but that only diminishes the value of the wickets if you're going out of your way to pick faults.
Aside from any of that who do you bring in as the frontline spinner to replace him? Tredwell who can't get a game in 4 day cricket so if Moeen's county record is one of the arguments against him then surely that makes Tredwell a non-starter. So you're left looking at Rashid who I agree should get a chance, but I'd have him in ahead of one of the seamers (probably Stokes right now who showed his immaturity in this test). Longer term I still think Kerrigan is a better bet than any of them (I don't watch a massive amount of county cricket but he's looked quality every time I've seen him) but he looked lost when he played for England last time (but then so did Woakes who has since come back and shown he deserves to play).
The bigger concern for me is breaking up the 4 medium-fast right arm bowlers that, at times, make us very predictable. Anderson put in an inspired spell to win us this game (to follow on from a nearly as good spell by Broad in the first innings) but we need to have a plan beyond expecting one of the 2 senior bowlers to have a purple patch.
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Why a bizarre post paul_e ? You have your opinion i have mine. Go on to the BBC cricket website and you will see Boycott and Agnew discussing the inclusion of both Jorden and Ali. Both these guys agree with me over Ali , they know far more about cricket than you ever will with all due respect. I suspect your opinion has a lot to do with you probably being a Pears follower
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In reply to your post Paulwinch again,nowhere did i say India can not play spin. Anyone who follows cricket closely however,will know they do not travel to well and the India team who were here last summer were in their own fans words bloody awful and a disgrace.
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Why a bizarre post paul_e ? You have your opinion i have mine. Go on to the BBC cricket website and you will see Boycott and Agnew discussing the inclusion of both Jorden and Ali. Both these guys agree with me over Ali , they know far more about cricket than you ever will with all due respect. I suspect your opinion has a lot to do with you probably being a Pears follower
No I'm not a pears fan.
It's bizarre for the very reason I said. No one called him world class on the back of those 3 wickets
You say if he takes wickets in the summer you'll change your opinion but you clearly believe he shouldn't be given the opportunity. Personally I think he improved so much between SL and India last summer that he deserves a chance to see how far he can go. I'd certainly prefer that to relying on Tredwell who is the only credible alternative. Rashid should come in but for a seamer not to replace Moeen.
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Agreed Moeen's development last summer was incredible. I think everyone said he looked undercooked in this Test, but he still took 4-98. That's pretty good.
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I enjoyed Boycott's little rant about Yorkshire putting a lot of money into their Academy and providing players for the England team meaning they are weakend considerably at the moment, whilst some counties would rather fill their side with Kolpac players than give an opportunity to any young players.
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IPL.
I love cricket. I'll watch almost everything on TV. But the IPL has all the allure of a month-old dead fish stuffed with mouldy cheese. I can't even fake an allegiance to a team - they all seem to be called the Royal King's Wallopers XI and play in red (with gold trim) or be called the King's XI Royal Wallopers (and play in yellow). Every year they seem to swap players, and increasingly populate their sides with anonymous Aussies or South Africans, who even in their anonymity are better than our lame would-be Wallopers.
If I do catch a match and plump randomly for a side, I find myself switching as soon as I find it contains Mitchell Johnson (who I'd never tire of poking with a red hot poker, and even if I did I'd hire someone to carry on while I had a nap) only to find the other side has David Warner (who I'd never tire of punching in the face with a glove painted with a likeness of Joe Root, and could probably maintain this whilst napping).
And in between switching sides and working out why I was bothering, I'd be confronted with a close up of some wildly demented supporter's fancy dental work while fireworks and a disco try and distract me from turning over to Homes Under The Hammer.
And then I'd write a letter to The Times. Or H&V.
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T20 is not my favourite form of Cricket but I do enjoy it. I like watching the best players in the world in different teams.
If I had to pick a side, it would be Chennai Super Kings who have a wonderful squad:
http://www.iplt20.com/teams/chennai-super-kings/squad
It's a pity that there aren't more English players playing in the IPL, but I guess it's about timing and quality.
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Why a bizarre post paul_e ? You have your opinion i have mine. Go on to the BBC cricket website and you will see Boycott and Agnew discussing the inclusion of both Jorden and Ali. Both these guys agree with me over Ali , they know far more about cricket than you ever will with all due respect. I suspect your opinion has a lot to do with you probably being a Pears follower
I doubt it will happen, as we all know that the England set up favour the conservative approach, but the general consensus on TMS over the weekend was that Plunkett and Rashid should come in for the next test. That would mean Jordan and one of Ali or Stokes dropping out.
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Why a bizarre post paul_e ? You have your opinion i have mine. Go on to the BBC cricket website and you will see Boycott and Agnew discussing the inclusion of both Jorden and Ali. Both these guys agree with me over Ali , they know far more about cricket than you ever will with all due respect. I suspect your opinion has a lot to do with you probably being a Pears follower
No I'm not a pears fan.
It's bizarre for the very reason I said. No one called him world class on the back of those 3 wickets
You say if he takes wickets in the summer you'll change your opinion but you clearly believe he shouldn't be given the opportunity. Personally I think he improved so much between SL and India last summer that he deserves a chance to see how far he can go. I'd certainly prefer that to relying on Tredwell who is the only credible alternative. Rashid should come in but for a seamer not to replace Moeen.
Rashid would have to come in for Ali, as Root offers a spinning option as well so there would be no need for all three.
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I love Trott but he's not yet in the groove, so I'd like to see Lyth given a chance to open the batting.
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I agree with what you say tom,plus on current form Root is the better batsman.
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Why a bizarre post paul_e ? You have your opinion i have mine. Go on to the BBC cricket website and you will see Boycott and Agnew discussing the inclusion of both Jorden and Ali. Both these guys agree with me over Ali , they know far more about cricket than you ever will with all due respect. I suspect your opinion has a lot to do with you probably being a Pears follower
No I'm not a pears fan.
It's bizarre for the very reason I said. No one called him world class on the back of those 3 wickets
You say if he takes wickets in the summer you'll change your opinion but you clearly believe he shouldn't be given the opportunity. Personally I think he improved so much between SL and India last summer that he deserves a chance to see how far he can go. I'd certainly prefer that to relying on Tredwell who is the only credible alternative. Rashid should come in but for a seamer not to replace Moeen.
Rashid would have to come in for Ali, as Root offers a spinning option as well so there would be no need for all three.
Not really, Root is useful to bring on when nothing much is happening but he shouldn't be use any more than that. The reason he's bowled the number of overs he has recently is because once the ball isn't doing anything for the quicks they don't have the variety to mix it up and create chances from nothing, so you bring on Root, speed through a few overs fairly cheaply and hope he gets one to stick (which he's done pretty well with to be fair to him). If you're playing on pitches like the last 2 I'd like to see a seamer go out and a spinner come in as someone you can put on for a 10-12 over spell with the old ball and they'll make things happen. That 4th seamer/2nd spinner should be a horses for courses selection between, for example, Stokes and Rashid.
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Why a bizarre post paul_e ? You have your opinion i have mine. Go on to the BBC cricket website and you will see Boycott and Agnew discussing the inclusion of both Jorden and Ali. Both these guys agree with me over Ali , they know far more about cricket than you ever will with all due respect. I suspect your opinion has a lot to do with you probably being a Pears follower
No I'm not a pears fan.
It's bizarre for the very reason I said. No one called him world class on the back of those 3 wickets
You say if he takes wickets in the summer you'll change your opinion but you clearly believe he shouldn't be given the opportunity. Personally I think he improved so much between SL and India last summer that he deserves a chance to see how far he can go. I'd certainly prefer that to relying on Tredwell who is the only credible alternative. Rashid should come in but for a seamer not to replace Moeen.
Rashid would have to come in for Ali, as Root offers a spinning option as well so there would be no need for all three.
Not really, Root is useful to bring on when nothing much is happening but he shouldn't be use any more than that. The reason he's bowled the number of overs he has recently is because once the ball isn't doing anything for the quicks they don't have the variety to mix it up and create chances from nothing, so you bring on Root, speed through a few overs fairly cheaply and hope he gets one to stick (which he's done pretty well with to be fair to him). If you're playing on pitches like the last 2 I'd like to see a seamer go out and a spinner come in as someone you can put on for a 10-12 over spell with the old ball and they'll make things happen. That 4th seamer/2nd spinner should be a horses for courses selection between, for example, Stokes and Rashid.
I agree Root is good for a few overs, but he's not a front line spinner like Ali. Ali is our main off spinner and would be expected to bowl a lot of overs in normal circumstances. It would be Plunkett or Rashid in for Jordan, if they make that change.
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Why a bizarre post paul_e ? You have your opinion i have mine. Go on to the BBC cricket website and you will see Boycott and Agnew discussing the inclusion of both Jorden and Ali. Both these guys agree with me over Ali , they know far more about cricket than you ever will with all due respect. I suspect your opinion has a lot to do with you probably being a Pears follower
No I'm not a pears fan.
It's bizarre for the very reason I said. No one called him world class on the back of those 3 wickets
You say if he takes wickets in the summer you'll change your opinion but you clearly believe he shouldn't be given the opportunity. Personally I think he improved so much between SL and India last summer that he deserves a chance to see how far he can go. I'd certainly prefer that to relying on Tredwell who is the only credible alternative. Rashid should come in but for a seamer not to replace Moeen.
Rashid would have to come in for Ali, as Root offers a spinning option as well so there would be no need for all three.
Not really, Root is useful to bring on when nothing much is happening but he shouldn't be use any more than that. The reason he's bowled the number of overs he has recently is because once the ball isn't doing anything for the quicks they don't have the variety to mix it up and create chances from nothing, so you bring on Root, speed through a few overs fairly cheaply and hope he gets one to stick (which he's done pretty well with to be fair to him). If you're playing on pitches like the last 2 I'd like to see a seamer go out and a spinner come in as someone you can put on for a 10-12 over spell with the old ball and they'll make things happen. That 4th seamer/2nd spinner should be a horses for courses selection between, for example, Stokes and Rashid.
I agree Root is good for a few overs, but he's not a front line spinner like Ali. Ali is our main off spinner and would be expected to bowl a lot of overs in normal circumstances. It would be Plunkett or Rashid in for Jordan, if they make that change.
Geoff Boycott made the point on TMS that Root and Ali are both off spinners so there is no real variety there at the moment. I would personally drop Ali and Jordan for the next test, with Plunkett and Rashid coming in. I don't expect conservative, safety-first England to make any changes though.
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Ali took 4-98 after being injured and not bowling before coming straight into a Test match, so he did pretty well from the bowling side. He was clearly rusty, but still took 4 wickets on a very flat pitch. It wouldn't make any sense to drop him. I do agree that Plunkett or Rashid should come in to add variety to the attack.
On Boycott's point, it's not really valid. Ali is an off spinner and Root is a batsman who bowls a few overs of off spin. It's not like Root would ever be considered as the only spinner going into a game. It's not a choice of Root or Ali they occupy completely different roles in the side.
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Ali took 4-98 after being injured and not bowling before coming straight into a Test match, so he did pretty well from the bowling side. He was clearly rusty, but still took 4 wickets on a very flat pitch. It wouldn't make any sense to drop him. I do agree that Plunkett or Rashid should come in to add variety to the attack.
On Boycott's point, it's not really valid. Ali is an off spinner and Root is a batsman who bowls a few overs of off spin. It's not like Root would ever be considered as the only spinner going into a game. It's not a choice of Root or Ali they occupy completely different roles in the side.
Tredwell had similar figures in the first test, but he was dropped. Ali also failed pretty spectacularly with the bat, getting run out in a way that would be embarassing for most junior cricketers. As for Boycott's point, I think it is a pretty salient one. If Rashid was in the side, you would have a leg spinner doing most of the work and then Root coming on doing something different for a few overs, rather than offering more of the same. I don't think you need to worry though, as I can't see England making any changes for the next test and Ali and Jordan will stay in.
Away from that, I see England Lions have named a pretty attacking one day squad for the game with Ireland:
James Taylor (capt) Zafar Ansari, Jonny Bairstow (wkt), Sam Billings (wkt), Tim Bresnan, Steven Finn, Lewis Gregory, Alex Hales, Jason Roy, James Vince, David Willey
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Ali took 4-98 after being injured and not bowling before coming straight into a Test match, so he did pretty well from the bowling side. He was clearly rusty, but still took 4 wickets on a very flat pitch. It wouldn't make any sense to drop him. I do agree that Plunkett or Rashid should come in to add variety to the attack.
On Boycott's point, it's not really valid. Ali is an off spinner and Root is a batsman who bowls a few overs of off spin. It's not like Root would ever be considered as the only spinner going into a game. It's not a choice of Root or Ali they occupy completely different roles in the side.
Tredwell had similar figures in the first test, but he was dropped. Ali also failed pretty spectacularly with the bat, getting run out in a way that would be embarassing for most junior cricketers. As for Boycott's point, I think it is a pretty salient one. If Rashid was in the side, you would have a leg spinner doing most of the work and then Root coming on doing something different for a few overs, rather than offering more of the same. I don't think you need to worry though, as I can't see England making any changes for the next test and Ali and Jordan will stay in.
Away from that, I see England Lions have named a pretty attacking one day squad for the game with Ireland:
James Taylor (capt) Zafar Ansari, Jonny Bairstow (wkt), Sam Billings (wkt), Tim Bresnan, Steven Finn, Lewis Gregory, Alex Hales, Jason Roy, James Vince, David Willey
Tredwell wasn't dropped, he was replaced in the side by the person he was providing injury cover for.
This argument will just keep going round and round with some people seeing enough promise and others not seeing it, we might as well just call it a draw and move on.
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Indeed I think it's fairly clear some don't rate Ali and some do. I quite the ODI team there are a few players I'd like to see on a more regular basis.
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Cook is looking much more like the old Cook. It's not just the runs it's his leaving and foot movement.
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Indeed I think it's fairly clear some don't rate Ali and some do. I quite the ODI team there are a few players I'd like to see on a more regular basis.
Agree Paul. It seems like the penny may have finally dropped.
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So Tredwell was not dropped but replaced and i was told one of my earlier posts was bizarre
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So Tredwell was not dropped but replaced and i was told one of my earlier posts was bizarre
How difficult a concept is it to understand that tredwell only got into the side because Moeen wasn't available and he didn't do enough to stay in ahead of him once he was back, that's clearly what happened. Whereas deciding anyone who thinks Moeen has done enough to stay in the side is calling him world class because he bowled out the tail is bizarre because it's nothing like what anyone was saying.
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Spin it anyway you like ,but in when a player is left out of a team ,unless he is injured or suspended he is commonly referred to as being dropped
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By you maybe, if Benteke missed a game with a knock and Weimann started ahead of him for the next game I'd be talking about Benteke being back not Weimann being dropped, and that's the difference.
The truth is you don't rate Moeen and don't want him in the team so you're framing the discussion based on that. I like him and I'm doing the opposite. I already said we won't agree until something major happens, which won't be before the summer so we might as well move on.
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We agree to disagree!
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IPL: Hmmm
Sarfaraz Khan: 17, wow.
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Hales shouldn't be ignored as a Test opener. He has had a belting start to the first class season.
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He certainly has Paul, though he has been batting at three for Notts.
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IPL: Hmmm
Sarfaraz Khan: 17, wow.
Youngest player to play in the IPL and scores 45 of 21 balls.
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IPL: Hmmm
Sarfaraz Khan: 17, wow.
Youngest player to play in the IPL and scores 45 of 21 balls.
With such insouciance. And had time to bollock his more senior partner when he ran himself out.
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IPL: Hmmm
Sarfaraz Khan: 17, wow.
Youngest player to play in the IPL and scores 45 of 21 balls.
Bloody hell, what are they teaching kids these days? The forward defensive and leave are going to become things of the past.
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IPL: Hmmm
Sarfaraz Khan: 17, wow.
Youngest player to play in the IPL and scores 45 of 21 balls.
Bloody hell, what are they teaching kids these days? The forward defensive and leave are going to become things of the past.
What will Sir Geoffrey do with his sticks of rhubarb?
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IPL: Hmmm
Sarfaraz Khan: 17, wow.
Youngest player to play in the IPL and scores 45 of 21 balls.
Bloody hell, what are they teaching kids these days? The forward defensive and leave are going to become things of the past.
What will Sir Geoffrey do with his sticks of rhubarb?
Stick them in the corridor of uncertainty.
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Anyone else got Ashes tickets? Mine came through but they're marked "restricted view". I'm sure it never mentioned that online when I ordered. Has anyone sat in these seats (at Edgbaston) before, and how bad are they?
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Anyone else got Ashes tickets? Mine came through but they're marked "restricted view". I'm sure it never mentioned that online when I ordered. Has anyone sat in these seats (at Edgbaston) before, and how bad are they?
Which stand/block are you in?
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Anyone else got Ashes tickets? Mine came through but they're marked "restricted view". I'm sure it never mentioned that online when I ordered. Has anyone sat in these seats (at Edgbaston) before, and how bad are they?
They won't be that bad wherever they are, there are a few seats near walls and such where you can't see all of the boundary but there isn't anywhere where you can't see the square and most of the ground.
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Cheers Dave. I'm in the Drayton Manor Family Stand.
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England win the toss, will bat first and select an unchanged team
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Unchanged. We must be the least imaginative team in the world, with the least imaginative selectors. Why not see what Hales and Rashid can do? We know what the others can do, for better or worse, why not give promising players a try? God following England can be frustrating.
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Unchanged. We must be the least imaginative team in the world, with the least imaginative selectors. Why not see what Hales and Rashid can do? We know what the others can do, for better or worse, why not give promising players a try? God following England can be frustrating.
Hales isn't even in the Windies anyway but Lyth, Rashid and Plunkett would have been worth giving a chance too
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Trott with a shocker
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Trott gone after just 2 balls fending off a fast rising ball
I love Trotty...please England leave him out v New Zealand
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That's the end of the experiment of Trott as an opener. Very poor dismissal. Again.
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Unchanged. We must be the least imaginative team in the world, with the least imaginative selectors. Why not see what Hales and Rashid can do? We know what the others can do, for better or worse, why not give promising players a try? God following England can be frustrating.
Hales isn't even in the Windies anyway but Lyth, Rashid and Plunkett would have been worth giving a chance too
Oh agreed. Hales just sprung to mind as a player who deserves more of a go than Trott at opening - I mean, look at that again! Terrible dismissal.
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Unchanged. We must be the least imaginative team in the world, with the least imaginative selectors. Why not see what Hales and Rashid can do? We know what the others can do, for better or worse, why not give promising players a try? God following England can be frustrating.
Hales isn't even in the Windies anyway but Lyth, Rashid and Plunkett would have been worth giving a chance too
Oh agreed. Hales just sprung to mind as a player who deserves more of a go than Trott at opening - I mean, look at that again! Terrible dismissal.
Agree totally about Trotty...........I would go with Lyth before Hales probably
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To be honest why not go with Ballance at the top of the order? He's practically been opening the batting anyway this tour.
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I bet Australia are hoping Trott stays in the team. Ballance doesn't open the innings for Yorkshire and is the perfect number 3 so there is no sense in moving him.
What was the point in taking Rashid and Lyth? They could have got several hours worth of cricket out in the middle back home rather than spending their days carrying drinks and gloves.
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What was the point in taking Rashid and Lyth? They could have got several hours worth of cricket out in the middle back home rather than spending their days carrying drinks and gloves.
[/quote]
and Bairstow and Plunkett............
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I get that they need a back up wicket keeper and quickie but I don't think they ever had any intention of playing Lyth and especially Rashid.
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I agree Chris. It's madness having Lyth, Bairstow and Rashid there just wasting their time.
Also this talk of moving Ballance is nuts, he's performing at 3 so he stays at three. Trott is finished as an international cricketer I think, which is sad. But they've missed a great opportunity to give Lyth a chance and it's just idiotic stubborness.
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I agree Chris. It's madness having Lyth, Bairstow and Rashid there just wasting their time.
Also this talk of moving Ballance is nuts, he's performing at 3 so he stays at three. Trott is finished as an international cricketer I think, which is sad. But they've missed a great opportunity to give Lyth a chance and it's just idiotic stubborness.
Every tour has it's non-playing squad members. They are there for a reason and should not be sent back to their counties.
Openers should open and number threes should bat at three. Trott is not an opening bat, he's a number three. Ballance has played well and does not deserve to be dropped so Trott will need to wait for a opportunity that comes about either by injury or loss of form.
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I agree Chris. It's madness having Lyth, Bairstow and Rashid there just wasting their time.
Also this talk of moving Ballance is nuts, he's performing at 3 so he stays at three. Trott is finished as an international cricketer I think, which is sad. But they've missed a great opportunity to give Lyth a chance and it's just idiotic stubborness.
Every tour has it's non-playing squad members. They are there for a reason and should not be sent back to their counties.
Openers should open and number threes should bat at three. Trott is not an opening bat, he's a number three. Ballance has played well and does not deserve to be dropped so Trott will need to wait for a opportunity that comes about either by injury or loss of form.
I don't mind so much if everyone is performing, but with Lyth what exactly would have resulted in him playing other than injury? Trott has done dreadfully and still Lyth hasn't been given a chance.
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To be honest why not go with Ballance at the top of the order? He's practically been opening the batting anyway this tour.
The guy has an average of 67 at 3, leave him exactly where he is.
Let's replace Trott with a genuine opener, I never liked the idea of him opening and the evidence is that he's never going to make it as one. Keep him as an option at 3 where he has a good record but clearly isn't getting back in ahead of Ballance right now. Lyth should have started all 3 tests to see if he can cut it.
For the rest of the side the only change I'd have made would've been Rashid or Plunkett in for Stokes who hasn't really delivered with the ball and is apparently carrying a a back injury which nearly kept him out. The last thing we need is for him to be pulled out of the attack a few overs in leaving us a bowler light for the match, which wouldn't surprise me now. On top of that I think he made a bit of a tit of himself with Samuels so being left out and told to learn to keep a lid on it might have done him some good.
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I agree Chris. It's madness having Lyth, Bairstow and Rashid there just wasting their time.
Also this talk of moving Ballance is nuts, he's performing at 3 so he stays at three. Trott is finished as an international cricketer I think, which is sad. But they've missed a great opportunity to give Lyth a chance and it's just idiotic stubborness.
Every tour has it's non-playing squad members. They are there for a reason and should not be sent back to their counties.
Openers should open and number threes should bat at three. Trott is not an opening bat, he's a number three. Ballance has played well and does not deserve to be dropped so Trott will need to wait for a opportunity that comes about either by injury or loss of form.
I don't mind so much if everyone is performing, but with Lyth what exactly would have resulted in him playing other than injury? Trott has done dreadfully and still Lyth hasn't been given a chance.
For far too long it has been harder to get out of the England side than get into it. Maybe it's the result of central contracts.
As an aside, I'm amazed that just over an hour into the first session of the first day they've got the spinner on. Messrs Holding, Roberts, Garner, Walsh, Ambrose & Marshall (RIP) must be choking on their rum punch.
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Windies morning. We've been quite poor and flimsy.
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Cook is very much looking like the old Cook. He's not there yet, but he's looking better than he has for 2 years.
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Shame to see Trott fail again, he's finished at this level. His Achilles heel has been exposed now.
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An hour after lunch on day one and the pitch seems to be dying already.
It doesn't bode well for bowling in the 4th innings. We will need to make the most of the new ball because once it's lost it's initial hardness bowling becomes a whole lot harder.
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Moeen is settling now and Cook is doing very very well. Cook is looking more like our rock again. Trott's dismissal just shows he isn't up to it at this level currently. Bell and Root were complacent and Ballance got a good one.
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Moeen batting well, but needs to maintain his concentration.
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Love to see Cook get a really big score here.
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Yep indeed. This is excellent from Cook and Ali.
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Very poor captaincy by Ramdin since tea. He's the worst West Indies captain for years.
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Stupid run out, poor call by Cook.
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Cook buried Moeen there. But Moeen showed his value, real counter attack that brought us back into the game.
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Cook buried Moeen there. But Moeen showed his value, real counter attack that brought us back into the game.
Neither of them had looked threatened since tea. It's so frustrating to see a partnership that was swinging the game back our way end in such an avoidable way.
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If Stokes can control his emotions he can become a big player for us. It's a big if though.
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Moeen has shown his value to England today. He got runs when we were in serious trouble, a bit like when he did against Sri Lanka. I bet those runs will boost his confidence for bowling too.
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Cook needs a century today.
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Cook needs a century today.
He needs to get it tonight too. 89no with 8 overs to go.
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If Stokes can control his emotions he can become a big player for us. It's a big if though.
I am not convinced by him at all and his dismissal shows a lack of patience, I see him more of a 1 day player
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Other than Cook and Moeen we've batted very poorly.
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Cricket is a game of stats and it's an aspect of the game that I enjoy.
I was looking at the Test number on the shirts and wondered who the last debutant was. I thought it was Buttler and I was right but from the list I looked at what struck me was the number of one cap wonders between 2010 and 2015:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_England_Test_cricketers
The List seems to be valid up until the start of the current series.
We also seem to have found a number of quality players between 2004 and 2006 (Bell, Strauss, Pietersen, Cook) who played 100+ tests.
How many of the recent debutants will get to 100 test caps? Root and Ballance for sure but who else?
Maybe history will show the period from 2004 to 2011 to be a Golden age for English Test Cricket. I hope not.
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Well batted Cook
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If Stokes can control his emotions he can become a big player for us. It's a big if though.
I am not convinced by him at all and his dismissal shows a lack of patience, I see him more of a 1 day player
I agree, I think he can become a good player but he needs to grow up in county cricket for a year or 2 yet, I have the same opinion of Bairstow who has probably been ruined by carrying drinks for England too often for the last 3 years and Finn who should've had a year or 2 with his county after the run up changes so he could get the thousands of deliveries required to learn the motor memory of his new runup.
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If Stokes can control his emotions he can become a big player for us. It's a big if though.
I am not convinced by him at all and his dismissal shows a lack of patience, I see him more of a 1 day player
That's my point. Aggression and emotion will help you in the one day game, if he learns to control and channel that aggression there's a natural replacement for Paul Collingwood ready and waiting.
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Congratulations Cook. He's looked like the old Cookie in the last few innings. Now build and score bucketloads in the Ashes.
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If Stokes can control his emotions he can become a big player for us. It's a big if though.
I am not convinced by him at all and his dismissal shows a lack of patience, I see him more of a 1 day player
That's my point. Aggression and emotion will help you in the one day game, if he learns to control and channel that aggression there's a natural replacement for Paul Collingwood ready and waiting.
Why is he batting above Buttler who is obviously the better batsman?
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Delighted for Cook, hopefully it's the start of an incredibly miserable month for Piers fucking Moron culminating in humiliation for his football team.
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If Stokes can control his emotions he can become a big player for us. It's a big if though.
I am not convinced by him at all and his dismissal shows a lack of patience, I see him more of a 1 day player
That's my point. Aggression and emotion will help you in the one day game, if he learns to control and channel that aggression there's a natural replacement for Paul Collingwood ready and waiting.
Why is he batting above Buttler who is obviously the better batsman?
Maybe because he has a ton at test level but I don't think Buttler has - yet.
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Stokes can be good if he channels his aggression, but Moeen is a much better option at 6 at the moment as he showed today. It's important Buttler supports Cook now.
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Feck. That is a blow.
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Cook and Ali aside that is a poor effort with the bat on a nothing surface.
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Oh Cook you needed to go on. As you say other than Cook and Ali this has been a really poor batting display. Other than Ballance all of the dismissals have been avoidable.
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We need to let Buttler go out swinging tomorrow.
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We've got to stop getting out to casual dismissals. But I'm delighted Cook has ended the century talk and Moeen has shown he's very capable at Test level in a pressure situation again.
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Not a great day for England, but after the sedate nature of most of days of the last two tests at least the game should move on pretty quickly. Not playing two frontline spinners may prove to be a mistake.
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Ali is our frontline spinner. You can choose to agree or disagree on that, but England see him as our best spinner, so they have selected what they deem our best spinner. I think they're right, but that's my opinion. His batting today was excellent and vital.
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I think our batting line up will get blown away by the Aussies unfortunately this summer.
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To be fair pwa he said not playing 2 spinners was a mistake and I agree, I'd have gone with Rashid in place of Stokes here
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Moeen needs to work on his consistency. When he bowls well he's great, but when he doesn't it's horrid.
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Some brilliant catches from Jordan and Moeen.
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That slip catch of Jordan's was excellent. Another great spell of bowling by Jimmy but why was Moeen bowling after tea? We gifted them 30 runs.
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Ali is our frontline spinner. You can choose to agree or disagree on that, but England see him as our best spinner, so they have selected what they deem our best spinner. I think they're right, but that's my opinion. His batting today was excellent and vital.
Disastrous start here. Persisting with Trott is not going to do anyone any favours and it is causing chaos in the top order.
For the record I was suggesting playing Moeen Ali and another spinner instead of Stokes or Jordan.
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Moeen needs to work on his consistency. When he bowls well he's great, but when he doesn't it's horrid.
In terms of bowling Paul, he's still very much in the development stage so he's going to have days like that.
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Christ terrible start.
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FFS!
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It's not going well
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Five down and that's 18 in the day
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shambles
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Fucking terrible. Other than his century Bell has been awful this series.
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On today's evidence heaven help us when we play one of the top teams .
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Ramdin is a poor captain. He's a good wicketkeeper-batsman but an awful captain.
Between them Anderson & Taylor took 15 wickets yesterday bowling from the same end. Today he bowls Taylor from the other end. Sheer madness.
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This is a pretty dismal effort.
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An exquisite little innings from Jos Buttler at the death.
Boycs reckons he has never seen a worse performance by spinners on a turning pitch than from our spin bowlers, who are not actually spin bowlers at all.
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Nice shot on the greenidge & Haynes stand of the claret and blue flag with studley and redditch lions on it
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Well this will take some bowling.
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The battling line up is so fragile, as I said before the Aussies will blow it away this summer, wankers.
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I'm still of the opinion the Moeen isn't a good enough front line spinner either and I'm not convinced by his batting. He will get a thorough examination by Johnson and Harris this summer and if he's not up to the short ball he's going to get a lot of single figure scores.
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Well that goes for any of our batsmen I wouldn't single out Moeen. Important couple of quick wickets there.
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I wonder if Pietersen would improve this batting line up...
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We're going to need a great spell from one of our bowlers if we're going to win this.
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Nice shot on the greenidge & Haynes stand of the claret and blue flag with studley and redditch lions on it
This is why it's always worth watching every ball of a test match!
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This is going away from us very fast.
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Moeen has bowled quite well today I don't get why Cook's taken him off.
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Broad is on it here.
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I like Tino Best on TMS he's got great enthusiasm.
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Shame he didn't have any enthusiasm for Test cricket when he played.
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Moeen is showing real rustiness here. He needs to get a lot of overs in county cricket. We're going to lose this.
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I like Tino Best on TMS he's got great enthusiasm.
He told a great story the other day about one of the current players who he tipped for stardom at a young age.
Can't remember the players name though
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this Test will not ed in a draw
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We draw this series and Moores might be gone.
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We might have won this with someone a bit more stable at the top of the order and a better second spinner. Shame we don't have any around on tour...oh.
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Trott hasn't been up to it, but I'd say Bell is a concern. Other than that century he's had a terrible series. The batting this innings was abject.
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That's got to be the end of Moores. Failing to win that series is dismal.
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Our batting in the second innings was woeful and complacent.
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Our batting in the second innings was woeful and complacent.
And that innings ultimately cost us the test. Some of the bowlers taking some stick from the various pundits, but the opening partnership is the number one aspect that needs sorting
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Yep and just general complaceny with the bat. It didn't help that Moeen and Root look massively short of bowling form. On the other side it's pleasing to see the Windies having a core of potential. Braithwate, Bravo, Blackwood, Holder and Taylor is the core of a good team.
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Yep and just general complaceny with the bat. It didn't help that Moeen and Root look massively short of bowling form. On the other side it's pleasing to see the Windies having a core of potential. Braithwate, Bravo, Blackwood, Holder and Taylor is the core of a good team.
As disappointing as it was for us, it is hard to begrudge the West Indies some success. The international game needs a strong West Indies and as you say, a decent core of young players seems to be developing. If they could just get some of the bigger names on board then they could start to make progress.
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Interesting to read what Boycott has to say about the England captain and coach and also his view on Ali .I was interested to hear the views of Dave Bradley while listening to the Worcs v Somerset match on line yesterday.Bradley who knows more about Worcs that most people was asked about his view on Ali as a test spinner. His reply " to be honest i don't think he is a test class bowler" Heaven help us in the tests against New Zealand and the Aussies if he continues to be our main spinner.
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It's going to sound like I'm on a crusade against Moeen but so far he averages under 30 with the bat and I can only see him getting absolutely decimated by the Aussie hitters this summer. I don't understand what has made him in to an international class frontline spinner?
Same with Trott, what is the thinking behind Trott becoming an opener? His head and technique was completely shot, if and a big if he got picked again put him in his natural position. As it is we've wasted another series and still don't have an opening partnership.
Bell has been a couple of big innings aside shit since the last Ashes at home.
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There aren't many of them returning home with their reputations intact are there? Here are my ratings:
Cook 6: he seems to be returning to some semblance of form with the bat. He needs to be stronger in the field and at times he seems to captain by committee. I was mystified as to why Jordan is not a permanent fixture in the slips.
Trott 3: he's not an opener. It was good to see him back but his performance and the emergence of Ballance means his career at this level is over, unless weight of runs for the Bears and injury/loss of form from others gives him a fresh opportunity.
Ballance 7: solid and dependable. I bet his would love to go to the crease after a solid opening partnership.
Bell 5: his ton in Antigua aside a very poor series with the bat compounded by some poor shot selection.
Root 8: a good tour and he is fast becoming the great hope of English cricket. He seems unfazed by the pressure and plays with a maturity beyond his years. Bowled well in the second innings in Barbados.
Ali 6: Victim of two stupid run outs, one of which was his own fault. Should not have been selected as first choice spinner in the second and third tests as he was dreadfully undercooked. He really struggled with the ball.
Stokes 6: he needs to channel his aggression into something positive. The Aussies will target him. I like his spikiness but needs to contribute with bat and ball.
Buttler 6: Hasn't dominated a test with the bat yet, however he batted sensibly with the tail in the second innings in Barbados. Needs to work on his keeping.
Jordan 8: What a slip catcher! His confidence grew and bowled exceptionally well in Barbados.
Broad 6: his bowling seems to be returning to previous levels but his confidence is fragile. His batting has deteriorated over the past couple of years, where is the batsman that scored 169 in a test?
Anderson 9: once he got the monkey of Botham's record off his back, he bowled with class and skill. He carries the attack at times and we are heavily reliant on him.
We missed an opportunity to blood a good young opener in Adam Lyth. It's understandable why they went with the Trott experiment given his test record but that experiment should have ended after the second test.
Moores is a poor coach and we lack the killer instinct that we had in getting to number one in the test rankings in 2011. He should carry the can for a particularly dire winter for English cricket in all forms of the game.
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That's got to be the end of Moores. Failing to win that series is dismal.
Not his fault. He can't perfume this pig of a team's performance. Almost every player failed and when that happens it's not the Coach it's the goods he's been given is the problem.
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That's got to be the end of Moores. Failing to win that series is dismal.
Not his fault. He can't perfume this pig of a team's performance. Almost every player failed and when that happens it's not the Coach it's the goods he's been given is the problem.
Surely he has input into squad/team selection?
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There's enough good players in that team to beat the Windies. One of our main issues is conservatism and that's a hall mark of Cook and Moores. I like Andrew Strauss, but I fear he's not the man to shake us up in the Director of cricket role.
I'd say the positives from this series are Cook's return to form, Ballance, Root and Anderson. Also Broad starting to look like a quality bowler again and Jordan's fielding.
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We really could do with solidifying the opening partnership. Ballance keeps coming in basically as an opener. I still think we were too hasty in dropping Carberry, after an extremely tough ashes series away he still managed to get 30+ in 6 of his 10 innings, which wasn't too bad. It appears his face didn't fit again.
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Trotty has retired from International cricket with immediate effect
A shame but inevitable I am afraid
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Bet Adam Lyth wishes he'd taken that decision before the shambles in the West Indies. Wasted a great opportunity to see if he's up to the task of Test opener.
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shambolic all round. How many more clean sweeps do we need? Graves is a good start but Strauss? seriously? Unless he surprises us all then it'll be same old same old.
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Well done on a fine international career Trotty you've made the right decision.
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Well done on a fine international career Trotty you've made the right decision.
Yep. You do have to wonder about the impact playing pretty much all their cricket in the international arena has on players.
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Sad to hear about Trotty deciding to retire from International cricket,but i think it is the right decision .I hope he can now concentrate on playing for the Bears,as at the moment we sure could do with a in form Trott
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Geoffrey on Cook
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/11582181/Alastair-Cook-is-so-up-himself-he-thinks-he-is-untouchable-as-England-captain.html
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Quite an inflammatory article that.
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Geoffrey on Cook
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/11582181/Alastair-Cook-is-so-up-himself-he-thinks-he-is-untouchable-as-England-captain.html
gota laugh Boycott talking about Moores and Cook being cautious,conservative, careful and stubborn individuals
the exact words you would use to describe him
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Quite an inflammatory article that.
Not really sure Cook should be making such comments about the incoming chairman. To be honest, if the turnaround for the New Zealand tests hadn't been such a short one, it might have been worth relieving both Cook and Moores of their duties as captain and coach respectively. I can't see us going anywhere under their leadership and we need a fresh approach.
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Just read the article and can't find anything to disagree with to be honest.
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Cook's statements and comments over the last few months have implied he thinks he's untouchable. His comments have been very disrespectful. England didn't fail to win that series because of comments from Graves. We failed for the same reasons we've failed for the last two years. We made poor, conservative selection decisions. Trott was kept in spite of obviously being short of the required quality now. We didn't play Rashid or Plunkett, which would add something else to our attack. We failed to grip key moments and we weren't a team we were a collection of individuals.
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England team to face Ireland today:
Alex Hales, Jason Roy, James Vince, James Taylor (capt), Zafar Ansari, Jonny Bairstow (wk), David Willey, Adil Rashid, Tim Bresnan, Steven Finn, Mark Wood
Looks a much better ODI side and it will be interesting to see how some of them fare. I hope they stick with this approach though and don't discard it if one or two things don't work out today.
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Raining in Ireland so as usual TMS is hugely entertaining and informative. Word is Moores will be out on his ear next week and there's a pretty strong basis to the rumours.
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Oh really what basis?
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Match abandoned in Ireland.I feel a bit sorry for Rashid,gets to start a game at last and has not been involved
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http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/may/08/peter-moores-removed-england-coach-andrew-strauss?CMP=share_btn_tw
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I'm fine with Moores going. He's clearly a good county coach, but he's not an International coach. I'd be curious to know the reasoning though.
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I hope he goes, he was the wrong choice at the time, we sacked a guy who'd done well only for it to drop off and decided the best replacement was the guy we sacked to get him in. Worst he's done nothing since he got the job to show that he's improved, different players but the team looks just like the naive, negative rubbish he served up last time.
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I'm fine with Moores going. He's clearly a good county coach, but he's not an International coach. I'd be curious to know the reasoning though.
It's a curious one. They've not made the job spec for this director role public so no one outside the game will have any real idea about what the director is meant to do. This will just fuel media speculation.
It looks like Strauss is the choice after Vaughan withdrew. No doubt he wants a new coach and Moores in a strange way is carrying the can for what went on before he was appointed and his own failures since his appointment.
As for a new coach I'd like to see Jason Gillespie or Justin Langer. Strauss and Langer are big mates and that could swing it in his favour. There isn't a credible English choice and the likes of Moody, Fleming etc are sat with lucrative IPL jobs. I'd like to see Fleming but would be happy with either Langer or Gillespie. The only drawback with Gillespie would be the number of crowing Tykes bleating on about losing players and a coach to England (!!)
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Some interesting comments from Atherton in The Times:
Mike Atherton says that new director of cricket’s first task will be to sack the coach before restoring team’s direction
This man went to one of the poshest prep schools in the country — to which he has now sent his sons — followed by one of the most pukka, most expensive boarding schools in the land. He is very wealthy, very Home Counties and very privileged. From just the right kind of family, as the outgoing chairman of the ECB said about another public schoolboy.
This man played a hundred Test matches for his country; he opened the batting against the best bowlers in the world for almost a decade. He captained his country very successfully, winning the Ashes home and away — beating Australia in three Test matches by an innings in Australia — and leading his team to the No 1 ranking in Test cricket and one-day cricket.
The same man, but, curiously, when it became known (not yet confirmed) that Andrew Strauss would become the new director of England cricket — and whose first act seems likely to be to dismiss Peter Moores as head coach — many observers seemed more interested in the background described in the opening paragraph, rather than the achievements in the second. It probably says a lot about England and an inability to see beyond notions of class, and breeding.
Being a grammar school lad from the North of England (for those who need to know such things), my knowledge of Caldicott School and Radley College is limited, but I know that they are irrelevant to the job that Strauss has taken.
His cricketing credentials, though, are impeccable and the surprise was that news of his appointment was greeted with such a distinct lack of enthusiasm (at least on social media, which is not necessarily an accurate reflection). You do not open the batting for that length of time against the best bowlers in the world without being tough; you do not captain your country to that kind of success without having excellent leadership qualities.
A quick recap would be a reminder that Strauss took over the England job in the Caribbean in 2009 when the team were at a low ebb — although, crucially, with the ingredients in place to forge a successful team. Those ingredients were good players, many of whom were starting to mature into fine international cricketers. They needed leadership and direction and Strauss, along with Andy Flower, gave them that. It led to one of the most successful periods in postwar English cricket.
There was a feeling that Strauss was the “establishment” choice, the safe pair of hands who would not rock the boat. It is true that Strauss knows Tom Harrison, the new chief executive of the ECB, very well and he is well connected with the head-hunting firm that has carried out the past few appointments for the ECB, but this is an appointment made on merit, as his cricketing CV would suggest. Some said that he is too close to the present players, but he will not be afraid of making tough decisions. He knows what it takes to be successful.
Initially, the ECB was looking at Michael Vaughan. Colin Graves, the incoming chairman, is close to Vaughan and the former England captain’s forward-thinking ability was admired. But when the job spec was sent around to interested parties, it became clear to him that the job was not quite what he envisaged. While the new man will be the public face of England cricket, it was emphasised that the responsibility in the dressing room would be left to the captain and coach. Vaughan wanted total responsibility and accountability or none at all. His withdrawal paved the way for Strauss.
Harrison has taken the lead on these decisions and is close to Strauss and admires him. The move away from the Graves-Vaughan axis allowed for rumours yesterday that Justin Langer, a former team-mate of Strauss’s at Middlesex, had been lined up as coach. Langer, though, is regarded as an obvious replacement for Darren Lehmann as coach of Australia when the time comes, a complicating factor.
Still, what is clear is that Harrison wants to clear the decks after 18 months in which the public image of the ECB and the England team plummeted. His first move was to dismiss Paul Downton. Moores’s dismissal is imminent, the timing dictated by the arrival of Strauss. James Whitaker will probably not survive as national selector. The main (non-playing) cast of the dismal past year will have gone, so allowing Strauss a clean slate to move forward. All these men are paying the price for the way that Kevin Pietersen’s dismissal was handled, which caused the ECB’s stock to fall precipitously.
Where cricket has to be careful is that it does not become the new football. After the 2013-14 Ashes, Flower departed; after an early exit from the World T20 last year, Ashley Giles was given the heave-ho; now it seems likely that Moores and Whitaker will go. The merry-go-round is unlikely to stop until the players are given and take responsibility for their performances, and more specifically, the captain. It would seem odd that, if Alastair Cook survives the chaos, the one man with more responsibility for how the team play than anyone else remains.
Still, the ECB is moving quickly to address one of the key concerns throughout the past year, namely the lack of credibility among its management team. Throughout the selection panel, coaching staff and management group, there was an absence of recent, relevant international experience. This was especially exposed in the selections for one-day cricket. With Strauss in place and a new coach likely — Jason Gillespie is the favourite — those concerns have been addressed.
Credibility is vital and Strauss brings plenty of that. He is also lucky in his timing. When Duncan Fletcher handed the captaincy of the England team to Andrew Flintoff for the 2006-07 Ashes tour, he sweetened the bad news to Strauss with the comment: “You will thank me for this eventually.” Taking over two years later was a blessing in disguise.
When Downton was appointed the managing director of England Cricket 18 months ago, Strauss was known to be an interested party. When asked why he did not apply, he (jokingly) said that he would wait for things to go wrong first, then step in.
Things have gone wrong, and calamitously so, but, crucially, there are the makings of a decent team in place and, at the risk of boring our readers, good players are the most important thing. Expectations are low. Now is a good time to be taking over. Strauss is fortunate in his timing again.
Moores under microscope
First spell in charge (Apr 2007-Jan 2009)
Tests P 22 W8 L6 D8 Won three series out of seven
ODIs P36 W14 L18 T1 NR3
T20s P10 W5 L5
Second spell in charge (Apr 2014-present)
Tests P10 W4 L3 D3
ODIs P28 W10 L18
T20s P2 W1 L1
Series record in second spell Tests: Sri Lanka (h) lost 1-0; India (h) won 3-1; West Indies (a) drew 1-1.
ODIs: Sri Lanka (h) lost 3-2; India (h) lost 3-1; Sri Lanka (a) lost 5-2. Australian tri-series: beaten in final.
World Cup: eliminated at group stage.
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Moores gone
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Right decision but was actioned very poorly.
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Right decision but was actioned very poorly.
Agree it's the right decision, but feel the timing is a bit harsh on Moores. With the close proximity of the New Zealand series, they must have someone in line for the job. Cook will be very fortunate if he retains the captaincy through all of this.
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Right decision but was actioned very poorly.
Agree it's the right decision, but feel the timing is a bit harsh on Moores. With the close proximity of the New Zealand series, they must have someone in line for the job. Cook will be very fortunate if he retains the captaincy through all of this.
They may put Paul Farbrace in charge for the series v the Kiwi's and that will give them more time
It looks like its gonna be a convict in charge........Langer, Gillespie or Bayliss, I would go for Langer
My 1st choice would be Stephen Fleming but he wont quit his IPL contract
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Atherton really is an exceptional correspondant/analyst.
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I can't say I know anything about the others managing skills, but I'd be happy with Gillespie.
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I'd like to see Gillespie in charge. On Moores, I think he'd be good in a youth development role.
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I'd like to see Gillespie in charge. On Moores, I think he'd be good in a youth development role.
That's a good shout, but doesn't Andy Flower perform that role?
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Headingley, the home of cricket.
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I see Pietersen has scored a century today. Nobody look at Piers Morgan's Twitter feed, he'll be wetting himself.
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Sounds like it was a decent century as well.
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Right decision but was actioned very poorly.
Agree it's the right decision, but feel the timing is a bit harsh on Moores. With the close proximity of the New Zealand series, they must have someone in line for the job. Cook will be very fortunate if he retains the captaincy through all of this.
Not bothered about the timing if the decision was right. We laughed at the Aussies for bringing in Lehman when they had already started an Ashes tour and look how that turned out.
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Pietersen currently 174 not out.
back for the Ashes? I reckon that he'll miss the Ashes but will make a comeback for the 20/20 World Cup (or whatever it is) in India next march/April? Too early maybe for the Ashes and a bit too raw but then give him free reign to know that it'll be his England swan song. Maybe just say to him that he won't play in any tests or one-dayers but the 20/20s are yours.
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It's only against 'muppet bowlers' though.
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I can't see Pietersen coming back now Strauss is in charge of things
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muppets or not its a double century.
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Now he's on the attack as he closes in on his highest first class socre of 254. currently 247. his last 8 deliveries...
6, 1, 0, 6, 4, 0, 6, 0.
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Pietersen 252* facing the next over.
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I don't know about yourselves but it's a fine sight seeing a Pietersen in full flow. We don't have anyone like him who can take a game away from opponents in a blistering session.
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Surrey 471/9 Pietersen 275*
9th wicket partnership of 53 in 8.3 overs. Pietersen has made 52 of them.
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487/9 Pietersen 291*
partnership 69 in 10.9 overs. pietersen has made 68 of them.
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Surrey 500/9 119 overs
Pietersen 304* brought up the 300 with two sixes
9th wicket partnership of 82 in 12.5 overs. Pietersen making 81 of them.
304 runs off 349 balls 34 4's and 11 6's S/R of 87.10. Has scored almost 200 between lunch and now. 6 overs of the day left. This is Pietersen's highest ever first first class score.
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That is a massive knock from KP.
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Massive knock on the door as well. "Score some runs" they said. Well, okay.
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2 more sixes of this over - Surrey 517/9
Pietersen 317 of 357.
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Partnership is now 102 from 15.5 overs. Pietersen has contributed 95 of those runs.
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KP on a charge is one of the best sights in modern cricket, regardless of anything else, when he's playing well it's clear that he really is a special talent.
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End of the days play at The Oval
Surrey 528/9 of 126 overs
Kevin Pietersen 326 off 373 balls 34 4's 14 6's S/R of 87.39
9th wicket partnership of 110 in 20 overs of which Pietersen scored 103.
truly awesome stuff.
Probably England's best batsman of all time. Arguably anyway.
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Alec Stewart on twitter:
Have witnessed one of the most incredible innings ever seen from @KP24 today. Those who saw it were privileged to something v special. #326*
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Ahead of tomorrow's conference I bet Andrew Strauss is using 4 letter expletives when thinking of Pietersen right now.
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Thing is how can a player that can do that not be under consideration for England? That is world class and England would be petty to ignore that.
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That's one innings against 'muppet bowlers'.
I'll admit I can't stand Pietersen and find the entire saga tedious so nothing he does will convince me he should ever play for England again!
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Thing is how can a player that can do that not be under consideration for England? That is world class and England would be petty to ignore that.
Just been announced that Strauss and Harrison are to meet with him. Guess it will either be a definitive no or confirmation that he will be considered again.
Listening to Darren Gough talking about the situation on the way home, one thing did cross my mind. I think our batting line up is in danger of being bullied by the Aussies later in the summer, but the presence of Pietersen might just prevent that.
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I'm saying he should be considered, not just cast aside. All this nonsense about dressing room harmony has shown no up turn in form. We should be selecting our best players, if Pietersen is one of those he should play, it's up to the coach and captain to manage varying personalities not just pick people they like.
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Oh come on, can we stop depressing me? The mighty Foxes are no more...😭
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He's our best batsman. Countless players past and present think we made a mistake in sacking him and that he should still be in the England set-up. And he should be. A top player should be managed better rather than thrown on the scrap heap before time. But, his book will make it difficult for him to get back in. he's criticised Anderson and Broad who are still going to be there and it will potentially be divisive, maybe too divisive to bring him back. BUT, this is a problem of the ECB's own making. They handled the whole situation horribly and one by one those responsible have gone or will soon go. I can't see Whittaker surviving. i also think Cook should have the captaincy taken from him.
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I am in 2 minds over the KP thing.
I think he was made a bit of a scapegoat after the Ashes debacle - it seemed vindictive to sack him and has left the ECB with a very awkward decision.
I also think that our batting isn't really the issue - it is the bowling that worries me more. I think Ballance, Bell, Root and Ali followed by Stokes and Buttler is a decent batting unit, although an inexperienced one. I think having made the break from KP, they should continue as they are. After all, who would you drop for him.
He has made a big thing about scoring runs in county cricket, but he is playing for Surrey in Div 2. He could have, for example, offered his services to a newly promoted Div 1 team, as he isn't being paid (his wages are going to charity). He has flayed 300 odd today which is a commendable achievement, but against the weakest county on a presumably good batting track.
He was a fantastic batsman at his peak, and when he appeas on SKY i think he comes across quite well. I then read some dopey tweet from his cheerleader P Morgan and think to myself he must be a tool to have him as a mate.
The whole thing leaves me a bit conflicted to be honest - the sacking has created a mess that still rumbles on.
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Now he's been told he won't play for England again hopefully that's the end of it. Bet Piers Moron will cry himself to sleep tonight, his beloved having the news broken to him as Arsenal lose, marvellous.
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I'm saying he should be considered, not just cast aside. All this nonsense about dressing room harmony has shown no up turn in form. We should be selecting our best players, if Pietersen is one of those he should play, it's up to the coach and captain to manage varying personalities not just pick people they like.
Agree Paul, but where would he fit in at the moment? Guess it would be a straight choice between him and Bell.
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He should be in the team, simple as that. The problem is that no one has the backbone to deal with the situation properly, because Boycott is right about Cook, and Cook doesn't like Pieterson. Cook is a very, very uninspiring captain, with no bottle for the job, and can't be seen to take KP back in his own mind. All bonkers, as England lose out on having their best batsman in the side, who had the highest average in the Ashes disgrace last year!
Appointing Strauss is another nod to the old boys club not wanting to rock the boat. Stewart or Vaughan would have come in and ruffled feathers, Strauss simply won't, which means this will be a very long, predictable and chastising summer I reckon. I hate the way KP throws away his wicket at times, but if you want to win test matches players like him are needed. Batting Butler at 8 after a line up full of decent but boring batsmen in the hope he will knock a quick 50 is not going to work.
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A triple century is a fantastic feat, however I do think a little perspective is needed. He scored his runs against a second division county, a county that before the start of this season had not won a four day game for over two seasons. I would expect him to score heavily against an average bowling attack.
He has always polarised opinion. Personally, I always felt that he was just short of true greatness. He never dominated games and series like a Ponting or a Tendulkar. He always had an eye on the showbiz shot and got out a few times in the 90's when trying to bring up his ton in grand style. First and foremost he played for Kevin Pieterson first and England second. When it worked he was a joy to watch. When it backfired you were left frustrated.
Should he recalled? No. He was lucky to be recalled after textgate and in his last couple of seasons he didn't reach previous levels. We need to build for the future and the likes of Root, Ballance and Ali have a good international future ahead of them.
Downton handled the whole situation very badly last year and the Pietersen PR machine capitalised on that. Now we have a Director of English cricket that doesn't want him in the squad and a captain who played a part in his removal. Time to draw a line under the sorry mess and move on.
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The problem is the unfairness of singling a player out. He shouldn't be told he's got no chance of selection, the team should be made up of the 11 best players. It's as simple as that, if he is one of those he should get in and if he isn't he shouldn't. Also it's a particularly dangerous argument to say Pietersen was in decline and shouldn't be picked. On that basis why did they keep Cook for the last 2 years? You can't have one rule for a one player, because you don't like him personally, and then have another rule for someone you get on with.
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The problem is the unfairness of singling a player out. He shouldn't be told he's got no chance of selection, the team should be made up of the 11 best players. It's as simple as that, if he is one of those he should get in and if he isn't he shouldn't. Also it's a particularly dangerous argument to say Pietersen was in decline and shouldn't be picked. On that basis why did they keep Cook for the last 2 years? You can't have one rule for a one player, because you don't like him personally, and then have another rule for someone you get on with.
I disagree, if one of those players has a big detrimental impact on morale then for the overall good of the squad it is better to move on without him. There is more to team building then just picking the eleven best players.
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I see his mate 'Warney' has picked his England team and selected his mate at the expense of Ballance. Surprised Root made the team.
It's never going to end this tedious saga is it?
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The problem is the unfairness of singling a player out. He shouldn't be told he's got no chance of selection, the team should be made up of the 11 best players. It's as simple as that, if he is one of those he should get in and if he isn't he shouldn't. Also it's a particularly dangerous argument to say Pietersen was in decline and shouldn't be picked. On that basis why did they keep Cook for the last 2 years? You can't have one rule for a one player, because you don't like him personally, and then have another rule for someone you get on with.
I disagree, if one of those players has a big detrimental impact on morale then for the overall good of the squad it is better to move on without him. There is more to team building then just picking the eleven best players.
And also Cook is a fair bit younger so has far more years ahead of him.
Pietersen's batting has been in decline for a while now. I'd much rather they stick with Bell, Balance and Root in the middle order.
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The problem is the unfairness of singling a player out. He shouldn't be told he's got no chance of selection, the team should be made up of the 11 best players. It's as simple as that, if he is one of those he should get in and if he isn't he shouldn't. Also it's a particularly dangerous argument to say Pietersen was in decline and shouldn't be picked. On that basis why did they keep Cook for the last 2 years? You can't have one rule for a one player, because you don't like him personally, and then have another rule for someone you get on with.
I disagree, if one of those players has a big detrimental impact on morale then for the overall good of the squad it is better to move on without him. There is more to team building then just picking the eleven best players.
I'd agree if there was clear evidence that removing that person from the changing room had cause a big improvement in form. But that hasn't been the case, England have pretty much continued on pretty poor form other than 3 Tests against India. I'm not saying he should definitely play I'm saying he should be given a fair chance. He was clearly made a scapegoat for the Ashes when there were/are much deeper problems.
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I see his mate 'Warney' has picked his England team and selected his mate at the expense of Ballance. Surprised Root made the team.
It's never going to end this tedious saga is it?
Well that's clearly ridiculous. If anyone was under threat it would be Bell.
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Strauss must have loved KP doing that yesterday. Quite funny.
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http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/07/the-spin-kevin-pietersen-book (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/07/the-spin-kevin-pietersen-book)
I think this, written 9 months ago, sums it up perfectly for me.
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I'm saying he should be considered, not just cast aside. All this nonsense about dressing room harmony has shown no up turn in form. We should be selecting our best players, if Pietersen is one of those he should play, it's up to the coach and captain to manage varying personalities not just pick people they like.
Agree Paul, but where would he fit in at the moment? Guess it would be a straight choice between him and Bell.
Pushing Root back up to opener would have been an option. Short term it would have created a spot for KP but it probably wouldn't have been the best for Root or the team as a whole.
Having said that, I'd have loved to see KP against the Aussies this summer
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I wouldn't have changed the order for him. It would have been a straight shoot out between him and Bell on form and good luck to whoever won. Interesting that Strauss apparently offered KP a role as an ODI cricket advisor, which was declined.
Good to see Root as vice captain. I get the impression that this is Cook's last summer as captain from what Strauss says.
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I wouldn't have changed the order for him. It would have been a straight shoot out between him and Bell on form and good luck to whoever won. Interesting that Strauss apparently offered KP a role as an ODI cricket advisor, which was declined.
Good to see Root as vice captain. I get the impression that this is Cook's last summer as captain from what Strauss says.
Strauss doesn't trust him but offers him consultancy role?
WTF !!!!!
Omnishambles
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They had the chance to close this messy chapter in the history of English cricket but didn't. So Pieterson isn't availble for selection for this summer and they hide behind trust issues.
Why not come out and say you're not going to be selected again and end all of this endless speculation?
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They had the chance to close this messy chapter in the history of English cricket but didn't. So Pieterson isn't availble for selection for this summer and they hide behind trust issues.
Why not come out and say you're not going to be selected again and end all of this endless speculation?
Because to retire a player who doesn't want to retire doesn't send out the right message.
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I really hope it's not another terrible decision regarding Root, there. The old English strategy of taking your best young batsman, making him captain and ruining his game is getting really boring now.
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I really hope it's not another terrible decision regarding Root, there. The old English strategy of taking your best young batsman, making him captain and ruining his game is getting really boring now.
General consensus is that he is good captain material though and I think as long as he stays in the middle order, the pressure on him should not be too great.
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I think Root will be ok, he comes across as having the right character and also he's got a good cricket brain. Most importantly he bats in the middle order and that makes a huge difference. It means he can separate what he does with the bat from what he does in the field.
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They had the chance to close this messy chapter in the history of English cricket but didn't. So Pieterson isn't availble for selection for this summer and they hide behind trust issues.
Why not come out and say you're not going to be selected again and end all of this endless speculation?
Because to retire a player who doesn't want to retire doesn't send out the right message.
They retired him last year, messed it up and we've had more than 12 months of needless speculation. The speculation will continue until either Pieterson decides enough is enough and jets off to play in various T20 leagues or Strauss firmly blocks the door to his selection, locks it and melts down the key.
After Text-gate, Strauss will never sanction his selection anyway.
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They had the chance to close this messy chapter in the history of English cricket but didn't. So Pieterson isn't availble for selection for this summer and they hide behind trust issues.
Why not come out and say you're not going to be selected again and end all of this endless speculation?
Because to retire a player who doesn't want to retire doesn't send out the right message.
They retired him last year, messed it up and we've had more than 12 months of needless speculation. The speculation will continue until either Pieterson decides enough is enough and jets off to play in various T20 leagues or Strauss firmly blocks the door to his selection, locks it and melts down the key.
After Text-gate, Strauss will never sanction his selection anyway.
They were wrong to retire him then and that's the problem. If they don't want to pick him, because the team is performing better without him that's fine. But you can't give the impression that you won't pick someone regardless of how they perform, because it makes you look petty and weak. Also it doesn't help that our performances haven't really improved since he was dropped and the ECB basically placed all the blame for our failure on the Ashes on him.
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I wouldn't have changed the order for him. It would have been a straight shoot out between him and Bell on form and good luck to whoever won. Interesting that Strauss apparently offered KP a role as an ODI cricket advisor, which was declined.
Good to see Root as vice captain. I get the impression that this is Cook's last summer as captain from what Strauss says.
because he knows we are going to take a fearful hammering in both series having just watched the pathetic display at Bridgetown
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The stupid thing is that the middle order has actually done "ok".
It is bowlers we need.
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They had the chance to close this messy chapter in the history of English cricket but didn't. So Pieterson isn't availble for selection for this summer and they hide behind trust issues.
Why not come out and say you're not going to be selected again and end all of this endless speculation?
Because to retire a player who doesn't want to retire doesn't send out the right message.
They retired him last year, messed it up and we've had more than 12 months of needless speculation. The speculation will continue until either Pieterson decides enough is enough and jets off to play in various T20 leagues or Strauss firmly blocks the door to his selection, locks it and melts down the key.
After Text-gate, Strauss will never sanction his selection anyway.
They were wrong to retire him then and that's the problem. If they don't want to pick him, because the team is performing better without him that's fine. But you can't give the impression that you won't pick someone regardless of how they perform, because it makes you look petty and weak. Also it doesn't help that our performances haven't really improved since he was dropped and the ECB basically placed all the blame for our failure on the Ashes on him.
I think it stems from the handling of his "dismissal". The way that Downton messed this up meant that Pieterson carried the can for the Ashes massacre and has played his hand brilliantly since then. He knows the cricketing public is behind him and continues to make the ECB and the management of "Team England" look inept and unprofessional.
For what it's worth, I think his selection would be divisive and would harm the dressing room. The problem is people expect to (a) be entertained and (b) present the Aussies with a stiff challenge in the Ashes.
If we'd have played well in the Caribbean and won the series comfortably then the clamour for his recall would quieten. We played poorly so the calls for his reselection grow louder by the day. This whole mess could have been ended today yet they've just prolonged it. If the Ashes goes badly then imagine the outcry if he's not selected.
It's going to be a massive distraction come July and August.
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Agreed ultimately this is still an issue because England have been pretty poor since he was in the side. Two things come to mind though -
- Senior players were involved with the Twitter account mocking Pietersen when he was in the dressing room. Why are they not treated with the same approach in terms of team harmony? Again you can't have one rule for a player you don't like and a different rule for players you do.
- The Chairman has apparently very unfairly mislead Pietersen. He gave the impression that if he came back and scored runs in county cricket he'd be considered for selection and that clearly isn't the case.
From my perspective Pietersen should only be in the team if he's better than the other players currently in it. He should have an equal opportunity along with every other player. If Ballance, Root and Bell are the best options then they should play. But it shouldn't be a personality issue.
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If this sort of thing had happened in the business world then the lawyers would have had a field day. Allegations of favouritism, bullying, inconsistent application of rules etc.
What a sorry mess.
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Yep indeed it's a shambles. It's also very odd that Strauss offered Pietersen a one day advisory role if he doesn't trust him.
In any case moving on from the Pietersen issue. I like the fact that Root has been appointed vice captain, but I'm not really sure how Cook continues to survive through our poor performance. I hope we get Gillespie in to shake things up a bit. Hopefully Strauss will make bold decisions moving forward.
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Yep indeed it's a shambles. It's also very odd that Strauss offered Pietersen a one day advisory role if he doesn't trust him.
In any case moving on from the Pietersen issue. I like the fact that Root has been appointed vice captain, but I'm not really sure how Cook continues to survive through our poor performance. I hope we get Gillespie in to shake things up a bit. Hopefully Strauss will make bold decisions moving forward.
maybe Strauss was asking KP as to see what his commitment and attitude would be to helping the ODI squad, as to letting him back into the England fold...
UTV
The Doc
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I think Root will be ok, he comes across as having the right character and also he's got a good cricket brain. Most importantly he bats in the middle order and that makes a huge difference. It means he can separate what he does with the bat from what he does in the field.
Perhaps. Vaughan was middle-order, though, and had the best cricket brain of his generation (why they appointed Strauss and not him to this new role is beyond me), and the captaincy still drove down his average.
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I think Root will be ok, he comes across as having the right character and also he's got a good cricket brain. Most importantly he bats in the middle order and that makes a huge difference. It means he can separate what he does with the bat from what he does in the field.
Perhaps. Vaughan was middle-order, though, and had the best cricket brain of his generation (why they appointed Strauss and not him to this new role is beyond me), and the captaincy still drove down his average.
Vaughan withdrew when he read the job description. He felt it didn't go far enough and would not address what he felt were the fundamental issues facing the national side.
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Vaughan wasn't really middle order he opened or batted three. So he was always at least the first man into bat once a wicket went down. Root would be coming in at 5, so you'd hope there would be some time to mentally adjust.
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A shambles!! Strauss "I don't trust you KP, but can I pick your brains for the ODI's?" Oh, and by the way " I'm backing my loser Captain Cook to regain the Ashes" What a great start Straussy!
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I think Root will be ok, he comes across as having the right character and also he's got a good cricket brain. Most importantly he bats in the middle order and that makes a huge difference. It means he can separate what he does with the bat from what he does in the field.
Perhaps. Vaughan was middle-order, though, and had the best cricket brain of his generation (why they appointed Strauss and not him to this new role is beyond me), and the captaincy still drove down his average.
He will probably say the role wasn't right for him, but I also think that he is well remunerated doing his other stuff and didn't want to give that up.
I think he is about to answer it on R5L hopefully.
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KP's newspaper column is a great one and for once I feel sorry for him.
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He's off to the IPL on Friday!
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He had signed a contract to be there quarter finals onwards sometime ago.
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Anyway well done Andrew Strauss cleared head and strong mind decision.
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Yep indeed it's a shambles. It's also very odd that Strauss offered Pietersen a one day advisory role if he doesn't trust him.
In any case moving on from the Pietersen issue. I like the fact that Root has been appointed vice captain, but I'm not really sure how Cook continues to survive through our poor performance. I hope we get Gillespie in to shake things up a bit. Hopefully Strauss will make bold decisions moving forward.
maybe Strauss was asking KP as to see what his commitment and attitude would be to helping the ODI squad, as to letting him back into the England fold...
UTV
The Doc
Yes exactly gives him an opportunity to build trust and stop listening to his wanker mate Morganatic.
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He had signed a contract to be there quarter finals onwards sometime ago.
It was the only way they'd release him from his contract to play for Surrey
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Well done Strauss: take the vice captaincy off your best batsman, Ian Bell and let a loser like Captain Cook keep his job?? Brilliant logic! I predict a thrashing by the Aussies in the Ashes....
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Bell is not England's best batsman at the moment. Root is absolutely the right choice for vice captain.
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Let's face it the only reason Pietersen wants England cap back is to ensure sponsorships don't dry up. He really couldn't careless about the rest of his team mates or cricket England.
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I still think saying they won't pick him in the summer is ridiculous. What if all three of the middle order get injured or completely lose form. I just think making a definitive statement is daft.
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I think the real shambles here is the way the ECB have handled it. Yes Pietersen was badly advised in releasing his book, but he was from what we hear told by the ECB to not go to the IPL, the play country cricket and get runs. He's done that, yet they've still slammed the door shut.
If they don't want to pick him then fair enough, but don't humiliate him.
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Agreed. It denies him the chance if he were to change his ways, stop Pierce Morgan speaking on his behalf, and carry on playing and making runs. It's going to be a long summer so door should have been left ajar.
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Let's face it the only reason Pietersen wants England cap back is to ensure sponsorships don't dry up. He really couldn't careless about the rest of his team mates or cricket England.
He could earn a shed load more playing silly cricket round the world.
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I think Root will be ok, he comes across as having the right character and also he's got a good cricket brain. Most importantly he bats in the middle order and that makes a huge difference. It means he can separate what he does with the bat from what he does in the field.
Perhaps. Vaughan was middle-order, though, and had the best cricket brain of his generation (why they appointed Strauss and not him to this new role is beyond me), and the captaincy still drove down his average.
Vaughan withdrew when he read the job description. He felt it didn't go far enough and would not address what he felt were the fundamental issues facing the national side.
Or maybe the ECB knew Strauss would be the most likely to turn his nose up at Pietersen returning. Vaughan would likely have wanted KP to return (as would Alec Stewart I suspect).
In summary, the ECB want a yes man.
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At times I don't think The ECB knows what day it is.
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At times I don't think The ECB knows what day it is.
I doubt the Australians would have worried about someone whistling in funny way. If they thought he could give them any advantage, he'd be in like a shot.
The Australians must be laughing their heads off at us.
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Bell is not England's best batsman at the moment. Root is absolutely the right choice for vice captain.
There is a lot more to being captain than being the best batsman, experience for one.
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Bell is not England's best batsman at the moment. Root is absolutely the right choice for vice captain.
As I said, the Aussies will thrash us! Weak leadership in the ECB.
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Bell is not England's best batsman at the moment. Root is absolutely the right choice for vice captain.
There is a lot more to being captain than being the best batsman, experience for one.
I wasn't stating that you had to be best batsman to be captain. I was responding to Villafirst's view that Bell is England's best batsman, and he's not currently.
On the captain issue I don't think experience is necessarily a requirement to lead, as shown by Graeme Smith. Root has a good cricket brain and a great attitude, I think he's a much more logical choice as vice captain.
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We are a shambles.
The treatment of Moores and Pieterson has been abysmal. The appointment of the captain's best mate in Strauss caps it off, when the skipper is so negative and tactically poor. All change at the ECB for more of the the same.
We will do well to beat the Kiwis and we will get an absolute bladdering off the Aussies.
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I don't have a problem with Strauss being appointed, in that I think he's quite a strong character. I do think he's made a mistake with Pietersen, but I think keeping Cook on for this summer is just a means of retaining some stability. I don't know whether that's a good or a bad thing, but I'm guessing that's why the decision has been made.
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Bell is not England's best batsman at the moment. Root is absolutely the right choice for vice captain.
There is a lot more to being captain than being the best batsman, experience for one.
see Mike Brearley....
UTV
The Doc
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Bell is not England's best batsman at the moment. Root is absolutely the right choice for vice captain.
There is a lot more to being captain than being the best batsman, experience for one.
see Mike Brearley....
UTV
The Doc
I was making two seperate points. Bell is not our best batsman, which is what Villafirst said. I agree being the best batsman does not make you captain material. However in this instance I think Root is currently our best batsman and coincidentally he is also the best option to be our next captain. He has the character and cricket brain to do it and also he bats at 5, which is ideal. He's absolutely the right choice to be vice captain.
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I don't have a problem with Strauss being appointed, in that I think he's quite a strong character. I do think he's made a mistake with Pietersen, but I think keeping Cook on for this summer is just a means of retaining some stability. I don't know whether that's a good or a bad thing, but I'm guessing that's why the decision has been made.
I think being Villa fans we have all seen what keeping stability for stabilities sake gets you in the end. Cook is a terrible captain, isn't improving and should be left to concentrate 100% on his batting which is coming back in to good nick.
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Bell is not England's best batsman at the moment. Root is absolutely the right choice for vice captain.
There is a lot more to being captain than being the best batsman, experience for one.
I wasn't stating that you had to be best batsman to be captain. I was responding to Villafirst's view that Bell is England's best batsman, and he's not currently.
On the captain issue I don't think experience is necessarily a requirement to lead, as shown by Graeme Smith. Root has a good cricket brain and a great attitude, I think he's a much more logical choice as vice captain.
Bell has captained Warwickshire and made a very good job of it, Root has never been a captain of a first class team as far as I am aware, that is the experience I am on about. However, decision made and I really like Joe Root, he is a superb player so good luck to him when he replaces Cook after the upcoming Ashes debacle. (I am not very confident!)
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Root has captained Yorkshire twice, first time he did it was the last time we lost a couple of years ago and he ballsed it up as he admits and second time was the match when we won the championship. A mixed record!
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KP has gone for a scan on a calf injury.
Or he has got no interest in fielding.
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To be honest if Pietersen's injury isn't genuine that's a pretty poor way to treat Surrey.
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Bell is not England's best batsman at the moment. Root is absolutely the right choice for vice captain.
There is a lot more to being captain than being the best batsman, experience for one.
I wasn't stating that you had to be best batsman to be captain. I was responding to Villafirst's view that Bell is England's best batsman, and he's not currently.
On the captain issue I don't think experience is necessarily a requirement to lead, as shown by Graeme Smith. Root has a good cricket brain and a great attitude, I think he's a much more logical choice as vice captain.
Bell has captained Warwickshire and made a very good job of it, Root has never been a captain of a first class team as far as I am aware, that is the experience I am on about. However, decision made and I really like Joe Root, he is a superb player so good luck to him when he replaces Cook after the upcoming Ashes debacle. (I am not very confident!)
I think Root being vice captain makes sense from the progression point you suggest. Bell has done well for Warwickshire, but he's not really a long term solution as a replacement for Cook. Root hopefully will be a success and be captain for a decade.
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To be honest if Pietersen's injury isn't genuine that's a pretty poor way to treat Surrey.
Who would have thought that of Pietersen?
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To be honest if Pietersen's injury isn't genuine that's a pretty poor way to treat Surrey.
Who would have thought that of Pietersen?
Is there any evidence that it isn't genuine or are people just jumping to conclusions?
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I'm happy to jump to conclusions where he's concerned!
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To be honest if Pietersen's injury isn't genuine that's a pretty poor way to treat Surrey.
Who would have thought that of Pietersen?
Is there any evidence that it isn't genuine or are people just jumping to conclusions?
Nope that's why I said 'if'. Whatever people think of Pietersen he's been treated badly on this occasion.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/32720069
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/32720069
That's very clever!
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If the stuff in the Mirror(I know!) is true about Cook and ECB backroom staff threatening to revolt if Pietersen was selected again is true then Cook has to go as captain.
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If the stuff in the Mirror(I know!) is true about Cook and ECB backroom staff threatening to revolt if Pietersen was selected again is true then Cook has to go as captain.
It's not a great leap of logic to think that Cook is the main reason behind the block on Pietersen's return.
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I see Bell has come out and said Pietersen deserves a chance. That's interesting, is that an indication the team is breaking ranks from Cook?
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I see Bell has come out and said Pietersen deserves a chance. That's interesting, is that an indication the team is breaking ranks from Cook?
Wonder if it's just a coincidence that Pietersen is the co owner of the agency that represents Bell?
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I see Bell has come out and said Pietersen deserves a chance. That's interesting, is that an indication the team is breaking ranks from Cook?
Wonder if it's just a coincidence that Pietersen is the co owner of the agency that represents Bell?
Bell and Pietersen's England careers have pretty much coincided. It's hardly surprising that Bell should have this viewpoint, they were both part of a (largely) successful team
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Just a coincidence then.
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Well he didn't actually say that much really.
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The squad for the 1st test has been announced.
I'm shocked that KP isn't in it.
No huge surprises in any of the selections.
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I see Bell has come out and said Pietersen deserves a chance. That's interesting, is that an indication the team is breaking ranks from Cook?
Wonder if it's just a coincidence that Pietersen is the co owner of the agency that represents Bell?
A bit like Strauss and Cook having the same agent ?
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I would definitely play Wood to add some variety to the attack in place of Jordan
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I would definitely play Wood to add some variety to the attack in place of Jordan
There's no chance I'd drop Jordan, his slip fielding alone is almost worth a place in the team.
Stokes would be the one to make way for me. He's got to learn to keep his emotions in check, Australia will destroy him this summer if he lets them get to him and the entire cricketing world saw how easily Samuels managed to do it. I also don't think he's much cop with the ball, Jordan is raw but he's got a lot more potential as a bowler for me. So if you take Stokes you pick him as an all-rounder to bat 6 but that means Moeen at 7 and Buttler in a frankly ridiculous position of batting at 8. Right now you pick 1 of Moeen or Stokes and the former is ahead for me, then I'd suggest Wood, Woakes, Plunkett, Rashid, Finn, etc are competing for the 4th bowling spot and 8th/9th in the batting.
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I would definitely play Wood to add some variety to the attack in place of Jordan
There's no chance I'd drop Jordan, his slip fielding alone is almost worth a place in the team.
Stokes would be the one to make way for me. He's got to learn to keep his emotions in check, Australia will destroy him this summer if he lets them get to him and the entire cricketing world saw how easily Samuels managed to do it. I also don't think he's much cop with the ball, Jordan is raw but he's got a lot more potential as a bowler for me. So if you take Stokes you pick him as an all-rounder to bat 6 but that means Moeen at 7 and Buttler in a frankly ridiculous position of batting at 8. Right now you pick 1 of Moeen or Stokes and the former is ahead for me, then I'd suggest Wood, Woakes, Plunkett, Rashid, Finn, etc are competing for the 4th bowling spot and 8th/9th in the batting.
Not sure about picking someone for their slip fielding! I reckon they will go conservative again and Wood won't play.
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I would definitely play Wood to add some variety to the attack in place of Jordan
There's no chance I'd drop Jordan, his slip fielding alone is almost worth a place in the team.
Stokes would be the one to make way for me. He's got to learn to keep his emotions in check, Australia will destroy him this summer if he lets them get to him and the entire cricketing world saw how easily Samuels managed to do it. I also don't think he's much cop with the ball, Jordan is raw but he's got a lot more potential as a bowler for me. So if you take Stokes you pick him as an all-rounder to bat 6 but that means Moeen at 7 and Buttler in a frankly ridiculous position of batting at 8. Right now you pick 1 of Moeen or Stokes and the former is ahead for me, then I'd suggest Wood, Woakes, Plunkett, Rashid, Finn, etc are competing for the 4th bowling spot and 8th/9th in the batting.
Not sure about picking someone for their slip fielding! I reckon they will go conservative again and Wood won't play.
It was a pretty glib way to make my point but what I really mean is that I don't see much between their records Stokes is a bit better with the bat (he has that score from Australia distorting his figures somewhat at the moment) but Jordan has a better bowling economy and average but slightly less wickets. Given that Jordan brings something else to the side which Stokes doesn't. I also firmly believe that that Moeen and Stokes are competing for a spot at 6, picking them both harms Buttler who i think we should be giving more opportunity to bat rather than pushing down the order.
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I wouldn't have Moeen Ali anywhere near the team. He needs to go back to Worcester and just get some games, and some overs, under his belt. He's by no way a great spinner but he cannot be picked for his batting alone. he's a one in 5 type batsman with too many class looking 30s before holing out.
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I think Stokes is very close to being a very good player and if we can slightly modify his aggression it could be a very useful asset. We need destructive bastmen, which he is. We also need aggression to counter the Aussies.
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I think Graves is a bit foolish to come out and say he what he said wasn't misleading. If you look at his quotes at the time they clearly implied that if Pietersen scored runs in county cricket he'd be considered for selection.
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I wonder if Jason Gillespie would want to select him?
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Of course he would. he's never been dropped other than the stupid sacking decision. Now you have Strauss picking the team for the coach/selectors. As I said before the summer's tests were a bit too early, but they maybe should have said that but tell him that he'll be going to the 20/20 World Cup in India if he's in form and still scoring runs. maybe even a winter tour as I doubt we'll still have Cook as captain and a new captain and new (ish) coach will put more pressure on Strauss to change things. i also expect to see the end of Whittaker, Broad and maybe Anderson very soon.
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Rashid needs to pull his socks up, didn't get selected in the West Indies and in his one match since returning home took eight wickets.
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I don't want to see the end of Anderson, he's still very good and a pretty decent bloke by all accounts.
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I think Stokes is very close to being a very good player and if we can slightly modify his aggression it could be a very useful asset. We need destructive bastmen, which he is. We also need aggression to counter the Aussies.
I agree he's very close to being a good all-rounder, I just think it will benefit him more to play a summer of county cricket, he's 23 which means he has loads of time to play for England yet, I just worry that him learning the emotional control he needs is going to be a lot more difficult at this level.
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Chris,I have always thought Rashid was a pretty good bowler and is pretty useful with the bat. How Moen Ali is thought to be the better spinner will continue to baffle me.
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He's scored a few centuries, at one stage he was in the Yorkshire side more for his batting but has got his bowling mojo back. Excellent fielder as well, I'm more than happy for Yorkshire to have his services but they really missed a great opportunity in the West Indies to get Lyth settled in and give Rashid a try.
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Chris,I have always thought Rashid was a pretty good bowler and is pretty useful with the bat. How Moen Ali is thought to be the better spinner will continue to baffle me.
Moeen had a very good series against India last summer with the ball and is probably still just about in credit after that. Having him at six balances the team nicely, but I think he will need to improve on his performance in the West Indies if he is going to keep his spot.
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Chris,I have always thought Rashid was a pretty good bowler and is pretty useful with the bat. How Moen Ali is thought to be the better spinner will continue to baffle me.
Domestically Kerrigan is better than both of them in my opinion but sometimes players just aren't able to make the step up. Kerrigan looked totally out of his depth in his only test and Rashid looked well short when he got his chance a few years back and hasn't really shone in the lions matches recently. Moeen had a tough time in the West Indies and in his first few tests against SL but the games against India in between he showed a lot of promise, and a few good ODI performances have helped as well. I still think he deserves the chance against NZ to show that he can get back on track. Even in a bad tour he still took 6 wickets in 2 matches so it's not like he's starting from nothing.
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I guess they worry that a wrist spinner is going to have less control than a finger spinner, although watching Moeen Ali in the last Test he couldn't have been any worse.
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Talking of Ali ,i notice he is bowling at the moment against the Black Caps. I am sure i read that he would only be available for the Bears game and not the Black Caps. Anyone any idea why this has changed?
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I guess they worry that a wrist spinner is going to have less control than a finger spinner, although watching Moeen Ali in the last Test he couldn't have been any worse.
Agreed, but let's give him a chance. He was excellent last summer and he was dropped back in against the Windies after being injured and having no bowling behind him.
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Talking of Ali ,i notice he is bowling at the moment against the Black Caps. I am sure i read that he would only be available for the Bears game and not the Black Caps. Anyone any idea why this has changed?
Probably because since his injury he hasn't bowled much, they probably want him to get some rhythm.
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I guess they worry that a wrist spinner is going to have less control than a finger spinner, although watching Moeen Ali in the last Test he couldn't have been any worse.
Agreed, but let's give him a chance. He was excellent last summer and he was dropped back in against the Windies after being injured and having no bowling behind him.
I guess for a while now our cricket has been very conservative. I would have given him a go - they seem to use Root to get through a few overs if required.
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There's one clear problem with England, they're over stocked with Yorkshireman.
One or two, it's fine, but once it reaches a certain level there always follows bitter mediocrity.
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I guess they worry that a wrist spinner is going to have less control than a finger spinner, although watching Moeen Ali in the last Test he couldn't have been any worse.
Agreed, but let's give him a chance. He was excellent last summer and he was dropped back in against the Windies after being injured and having no bowling behind him.
I guess for a while now our cricket has been very conservative. I would have given him a go - they seem to use Root to get through a few overs if required.
Agreed. I'd like to see us trying to take wickets and win matches rather than save runs and not lose matches. Both Strauss and Cook have the same instincts - Christ's sake, if Boycott is saying you're too cautious then you have a problem!
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I'm not sure Moeen's conservative at all though. He's an ultra aggressive batsman and he's a wicket taking bowler when at his best. Although I agree our overall tactics need to be more aggressive.
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There's one clear problem with England, they're over stocked with Yorkshireman.
One or two, it's fine, but once it reaches a certain level there always follows bitter mediocrity.
If it wasn't for the two, England would be very crap rather than just crap.
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Stuart Broad seems to have covered himself in glory.
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Stuart Broad seems to have covered himself in glory.
Which is more than he does with bat and ball these days!
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Sums up the general lack of discipline in the squad.
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He should be dropped for this test - what he did was unacceptable
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What was unacceptable? Its not his fault he missed the 9.30 am appointment as he had a migraine. Which is doubly unlucky because he would have had a hangover as well having gotten back to the hotel at 7am after a night out on the lash.
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What was unacceptable? Its not his fault he missed the 9.30 am appointment as he had a migraine. Which is doubly unlucky because he would have had a hangover as well having gotten back to the hotel at 7am after a night out on the lash.
All happening in a build up to a test series which has been plagued with controversy and problems. Impeccable timing.
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The last few months have been so unprofessional it's untrue.
I really fear for us this Summer.
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It's all very reminiscent of a couple of years ago, when the Aussies were plagued by infighting, poor results and tearing themselves apart in the months leading up to the ashes.
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Ultimately some of these players need to be pulled in line and worryingly it's the senior players. Cook keeps coming out and criticising the decisions of his superiors and now you get Broad out on the lash the night before he was supposed to be a representative at function. It just suggests that some of the senior players don't have anywhere near enough respect for the position their in and that needs to be dealt with. At least the younger players seem to be doing ok. I really hope we get Gillespie in to help rebuild the team spirit and respect, as well as improve our style.
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It's interesting that Cook says there was no Pietersen ultimatum and the player's weren't consulted. So I can only assume that the decision came from Strauss alone, because there's no one else left on the board who worked with him.
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It's interesting that Cook says there was no Pietersen ultimatum and the player's weren't consulted. So I can only assume that the decision came from Strauss alone, because there's no one else left on the board who worked with him.
Strauss has the power to act on his own personal vendetta against Pietersen, there isn't anyone to stop him.
It's worrying that one person can wield so much power and be virtually unaccountable for their actions.
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It's interesting that Cook says there was no Pietersen ultimatum and the player's weren't consulted. So I can only assume that the decision came from Strauss alone, because there's no one else left on the board who worked with him.
Cook looks like he is going to be one of the only ones who survives the clear out. He is fortunate to do so as well, as I think his captaincy has been one of tad problems.
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In spite of all the struggles I do love the first Test of the summer. I hope we turn up and I'd also like to see Wood given a chance.
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same here Paul, I always have it on at my desk at work...I love listening to TMS
UTV
The Doc
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Looks like Wood is playing, Strauss has handed Lyth test cap number 666 and Wood number 667. I assume Jordan makes way for Wood.
No news on toss yet; it's an important one to win as if you're batting you can very easily find yourselves 10-2, or in England's case 38-6!
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Cook is a useless tosser...... so a huge morning ahead for England. We really need to set the right tone for a summer of international cricket.
Hopefully Southee and Boult will still be bowling T20 lengths after their stint in IPL but somehow I doubt it!
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Going to be tough batting. I'm glad to see Wood get a chance, but since BBC haven't actually announced the full team on their text service I'm guessing it's Jordan who misses out.
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Going to be tough batting. I'm glad to see Wood get a chance, but since BBC haven't actually announced the full team on their text service I'm guessing it's Jordan who misses out.
According to Cricinfo yes.
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I'm surprised Jimmy Neesham isn't playing for them. He's looked really good when I've seen him play.
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They must have seen something in Wood, because looking at his record last year it wasn't that great and he hasn't played many games. Hopefully he's just got talent they've spotted.
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They must have seen something in Wood, because looking at his record last year it wasn't that great and he hasn't played many games. Hopefully he's just got talent they've spotted.
I think that it's his skiddy/whippy technique that gets him the nod ahead of Jordan.
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17-1, Lyth gone for 7.
Feathered one to the Keeper.
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Sounds like he got a great delivery.
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Cook and Ballance gone in quick succession, 25-3.
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Here we go again.
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30-4 Bell bowled by a jaffa.
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3 good balls and one terrible dismissal for Cook. We're in a world of trouble. Double hundreds for Root and Ali please.
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Incidentally this isn't going to silence the KP issue. Bell's form other than one century has been terrible.
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Just seen the score, going well isn't it.
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I agree with Vaughan England have a real habit of making a bad session into a terrible one.
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I was surprised to hear on 5 Live this morning that England were favourites to win the series.
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I was surprised to hear on 5 Live this morning that England were favourites to win the series.
Yeah me too. I can't understand any basis for that. It's not like conditions in NZ are that different from England and they're a better team.
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God almighty you guys heard the reason Stokes came in ahead of Ali? Apparently Ali was batting in the nets and didn't have time to get his kit on. That is utterly embarrassing and shambolic. Should someone not have called him in once the 2nd or 3rd wicket went down?
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God almighty you guys heard the reason Stokes came in ahead of Ali? Apparently Ali was batting in the nets and didn't have time to get his kit on. That is utterly embarrassing and shambolic. Should someone not have called him in once the 2nd or 3rd wicket went down?
It says something that a team captained by our top century-maker in history, and which includes our top wicket-taker as well, is in such disarray.
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That is shambolic beyond belief.
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God almighty you guys heard the reason Stokes came in ahead of Ali? Apparently Ali was batting in the nets and didn't have time to get his kit on. That is utterly embarrassing and shambolic. Should someone not have called him in once the 2nd or 3rd wicket went down?
I don't think that it's that much of an issue. Yes it's unusual and there seems to have been a breakdown in communication, but given that numbers 6 and 7 are virtually interchangeable, where is the issue?
Perhaps Ali should have thought twice about going for a net on the first morning of a Lords test in March when the ball is likely to be doing allsorts.
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But it's not about individual decisions it's about leadership. If players shouldn't be going for a net on the first morning that should be communicated to all of them. If they're allowed to go then there should be sufficient communication in place to ensure you don't miss when you should be going out to bat.
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Good for the neutral though! Quick start to the test, and to the series - first session has produced 4 wickets and 80 runs so far. Good stuff. For the neutral.
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But it's not about individual decisions it's about leadership. If players shouldn't be going for a net on the first morning that should be communicated to all of them. If they're allowed to go then there should be sufficient communication in place to ensure you don't miss when you should be going out to bat.
It's as much about Ali and his professionalism as Cook and a lack of leadership.
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Englands top order is going to be blown to shreds by the Aussies.
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But it's not about individual decisions it's about leadership. If players shouldn't be going for a net on the first morning that should be communicated to all of them. If they're allowed to go then there should be sufficient communication in place to ensure you don't miss when you should be going out to bat.
It's as much about Ali and his professionalism as Cook and a lack of leadership.
I don't know how we can judge Ali without knowing the rules in place. Surely if a player isn't meant to go the nets on the first morning there must be a rule in place?
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Root is doing well and I think Stokes is doing the right thing in attacking.
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But it's not about individual decisions it's about leadership. If players shouldn't be going for a net on the first morning that should be communicated to all of them. If they're allowed to go then there should be sufficient communication in place to ensure you don't miss when you should be going out to bat.
It's as much about Ali and his professionalism as Cook and a lack of leadership.
I don't know how we can judge Ali without knowing the rules in place. Surely if a player isn't meant to go the nets on the first morning there must be a rule in place?
That's just it we don't know the rules.
I would doubt that on day one of a test, as an opener and a captain that it is Cook's responsibility. It would possibly fall under the remit of an assistant coach, which at this moment we don't have.
A reasonable recovery led by Root and Stokes. We've a long way to get back into this test though.
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Good counter attack from Root and Stokes to get us to lunch. We need a lot more from them, Ali and Buttler though to get us up to a good score.
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Unfortunate news for Tymal Mills.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cricket-2015/content/story/879411.html
He was being talked up as the next fast bowling prodigy but it looks as though a back problem will curtail his career.
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Yet again we have been caught cold at the start of a series. The New Zealanders have two warm up games against county sides in the build up to the series, but our players haven't played since the series in the West Indies finished.
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Yet again we have been caught cold at the start of a series. The New Zealanders have two warm up games against county sides in the build up to the series, but our players haven't played since the series in the West Indies finished.
I disagree. It was as much about a good toss to win for the Kiwis. I reckon they'd have struggled in the first hour if we'd have won the toss and put them in.
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But it's not about individual decisions it's about leadership. If players shouldn't be going for a net on the first morning that should be communicated to all of them. If they're allowed to go then there should be sufficient communication in place to ensure you don't miss when you should be going out to bat.
It's as much about Ali and his professionalism as Cook and a lack of leadership.
I don't know how we can judge Ali without knowing the rules in place. Surely if a player isn't meant to go the nets on the first morning there must be a rule in place?
That's just it we don't know the rules.
I would doubt that on day one of a test, as an opener and a captain that it is Cook's responsibility. It would possibly fall under the remit of an assistant coach, which at this moment we don't have.
A reasonable recovery led by Root and Stokes. We've a long way to get back into this test though.
I wasn't really referring to Cook to be honest, he was still batting when Ali should have been ready. I think this comes down to the back room staff.
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This is really good from Root and Stokes and it also shows the value of scoring quickly and not getting bogged down, which is a problem England teams tend to suffer from.
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Unfortunate news for Tymal Mills.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cricket-2015/content/story/879411.html
He was being talked up as the next fast bowling prodigy but it looks as though a back problem will curtail his career.
Yes very sad news.
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This sort of innings from Stokes is why I think he has a massive future. We need someone who can counter down the order.
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Remarkable scoring rate for the game situation, 4.55 per over.
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Root is doing brilliantly, but this is stunning from Stokes. This is exactly what he is about. He is a modern day Test cricketer, which is what England need.
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This sort of innings from Stokes is why I think he has a massive future. We need someone who can counter down the order.
I agree, it's only the 2nd time he's done this since the ashes though, and the rest of his career so far has seen a lot of 0-25 scores which are where my worry about him not being mentally ready comes into it because a lot of those wickets have come from him playing stupid shots that weren't needed at that point. His ability to counter-attack and being aggressive is important for this England team, but it has to come with an acceptance that sometimes you have to ride things out for a few overs.
I'm not worried about the Ali thing, he wanted time in the nets, he wouldn't have expected 4 wickets in half an hour and I'm sure he had permission to be there so it's just a case of no one thinking quickly enough to give him a shout when Ballance went.
I'm getting very worried about Bell now, it sounds like he was beaten by an absolute doozy today so as a standalone wicket I'm not concerned but he's getting out for very little too often, and it almost always happens after a bit of collapse which is the point where you want a guy who's one of our most experienced batsmen to stand up.
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I think Stokes got a lot of poor scores when he was going through a bad patch of form, but his scores have been on an upward curve for a while. His bowling is also quick and if it can be refined a bit he's a hell of an asset.
Bell is becoming a big concern, his form has been really poor and his level has dropped off a lot.
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I'm getting very worried about Bell now, it sounds like he was beaten by an absolute doozy today so as a standalone wicket I'm not concerned but he's getting out for very little too often, and it almost always happens after a bit of collapse which is the point where you want a guy who's one of our most experienced batsmen to stand up.
Wonder if he's got a cup final ticket and is hoping to be dropped for the Headingley Test?
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I think Stokes got a lot of poor scores when he was going through a bad patch of form, but his scores have been on an upward curve for a while. His bowling is also quick and if it can be refined a bit he's a hell of an asset.
Bell is becoming a big concern, his form has been really poor and his level has dropped off a lot.
I think Stokes will definitely be a good player for us in a couple of years, I'm still not sure he's best served being in the squad this summer though, I guess we'll have to see, I'll be very happy if he proves me wrong and this type of innings with the bat is a good start to doing that.
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See I understand your view, but I kind of think the opposite. I'm hoping Stokes' attitude is exactly what we need to counter Australia this summer.
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Stokes out to an arm ball. A very important innings of 92, but a good ball that got him.
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That's frustrating he deserved a century. It's important that Ali and Root carry on the work now, because we still need a lot of runs.
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I'm getting very worried about Bell now, it sounds like he was beaten by an absolute doozy today so as a standalone wicket I'm not concerned but he's getting out for very little too often, and it almost always happens after a bit of collapse which is the point where you want a guy who's one of our most experienced batsmen to stand up.
Wonder if he's got a cup final ticket and is hoping to be dropped for the Headingley Test?
Time for a look at Taylor instead of Bell?
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I'm getting very worried about Bell now, it sounds like he was beaten by an absolute doozy today so as a standalone wicket I'm not concerned but he's getting out for very little too often, and it almost always happens after a bit of collapse which is the point where you want a guy who's one of our most experienced batsmen to stand up.
Wonder if he's got a cup final ticket and is hoping to be dropped for the Headingley Test?
Time for a look at Taylor instead of Bell?
I wouldn't mind that I like Taylor. Strange that Ali drops down the order again.
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I'm getting very worried about Bell now, it sounds like he was beaten by an absolute doozy today so as a standalone wicket I'm not concerned but he's getting out for very little too often, and it almost always happens after a bit of collapse which is the point where you want a guy who's one of our most experienced batsmen to stand up.
Wonder if he's got a cup final ticket and is hoping to be dropped for the Headingley Test?
Time for a look at Taylor instead of Bell?
I wouldn't mind that I like Taylor. Strange that Ali drops down the order again.
I wonder if it's because of the position of the game. A batsman at the other end looking comfortable; a flat pitch, new ball 30+ overs away and a tiring attack. It's an ideal opportunity for Buttler.
He's often compared with Gilchrist and this is exactly the kind of circumstances where he would have taken the game away from you.
Hopefully it hints at a new-found tactical flexibility too.
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Quite possibly.
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Excellent session. That partnership from Stokes and Root shows the value of scoring quickly over just occupying the crease. If they'd stayed together for a couple of hours and only scored 50 we'd still be in the mire. Whereas now we have a chance of getting a good first innings total. Being proactive and scoring runs puts the opposition back under pressure.
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Root did not need to play that one! Out for 98.
Still a marvellous innings. Got us out of trouble.
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Moeen was rumoured to be moving down to 8 anyway so I don't think he was breaking any rules by netting or that it's a sign that the whole team is a shambles
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I'm getting very worried about Bell now, it sounds like he was beaten by an absolute doozy today so as a standalone wicket I'm not concerned but he's getting out for very little too often, and it almost always happens after a bit of collapse which is the point where you want a guy who's one of our most experienced batsmen to stand up.
Wonder if he's got a cup final ticket and is hoping to be dropped for the Headingley Test?
Time for a look at Taylor instead of Bell?
Bell's natural successor is at Warwickshire, though currently has a dislocated shoulder.
Very good recovery today from a pretty dire situation. I hope the new regime make it clear that players will not be selected on reputation and past achievements like they have been previously.
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I'm getting very worried about Bell now, it sounds like he was beaten by an absolute doozy today so as a standalone wicket I'm not concerned but he's getting out for very little too often, and it almost always happens after a bit of collapse which is the point where you want a guy who's one of our most experienced batsmen to stand up.
Wonder if he's got a cup final ticket and is hoping to be dropped for the Headingley Test?
Time for a look at Taylor instead of Bell?
Bell's natural successor is at Warwickshire, though currently has a dislocated shoulder.
I don't think Sam Hain qualifies for England until 2016. As good as he looks I reckon he needs a couple of seasons in county cricket under his belt before he gets an England call.
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I'm getting very worried about Bell now, it sounds like he was beaten by an absolute doozy today so as a standalone wicket I'm not concerned but he's getting out for very little too often, and it almost always happens after a bit of collapse which is the point where you want a guy who's one of our most experienced batsmen to stand up.
Wonder if he's got a cup final ticket and is hoping to be dropped for the Headingley Test?
Time for a look at Taylor instead of Bell?
Bell's natural successor is at Warwickshire, though currently has a dislocated shoulder.
I don't think Sam Hain qualifies for England until 2016. As good as he looks I reckon he needs a couple of seasons in county cricket under his belt before he gets an England call.
That's the good thing with him, he automatically gets the 3 years of uninterrupted (by international call ups) county game time that young players need. We've damaged the careers of some good young players (Finn, Bairstow, Stokes to an extent) by calling them up far too soon when their game isn't ready for international cricket. If he has another 2 seasons like last year he'd have to be looked at for the winter 2016 tour even if only as a drinks carrier to get used to the squad.
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On the current match, great knocks from Root and Stokes and Buttler and Moeen are also looking in good form, you wouldn't put 400 beyond us, which will be a huge turnaround after that start.
Don't want to create a new post but they've been having an interesting discussion about where Moeen and Stokes fit, I wonder if the solution might be, if Bell doesn't improve, to push Moeen up to 4 and bring in a specialist spinner at 8 (such as Rashid).
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I've just turned TMS off and put Sky on. Both mediums have been having a similar discussion.
It does give us added depth but we really do need the top order to start scoring to give us the platform that we need.
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damn shame to see Buttler go with the last ball but it's still a good day at the end. We need the bowlers to offer a bit of support for Moeen before lunch and try to push up towards 400-450. The good thing is we'll have got to a solid competitive target much faster than usual so we're not eating into our time to take wickets ourselves too much.
The top order needs to, as a unit, have a good look at itself, we can't have so many of the top order in single figures so often, it means the brilliance in the middle order is saving an innings rather than winning a game. I'll give Bell a pass for this innings, the ball that got him was a beauty, but he really needs to stop getting low scores when we're already losing wickets, it's become a really bad habit. Cook was back to his scratchy uncomfortable self that we saw before the West Indies and holed out with a very poor shot, I really think opening and being captain is too much for him, I just wish someone would take the captaincy away so we can stand a chance of seeing England's all-time top run scorer change, a dismal ashes could see him out completely.
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I think we'll struggle to get anywhere near 400 now. That said, at 30-4 you'd settle for anything 350+
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Depends on how Men approaches it, if he can hog the strike and make them try to bowl him rather than gift him singles Lords flattens out quickly.
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Wonderful day of test match cricket. A pitch that offered a bit for the bowlers through the day, and the ball swung for most of the day. Our top order is really a worry. So many times we are 30/3 or thereabouts. If only we had a world class, South African born batsman who has scored over 20 test centuries, currently playing domestic cricket.
Great stuff from Root, Stokes, Buttler and Ali.
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I think we'll struggle to get anywhere near 400 now. That said, at 30-4 you'd settle for anything 350+
We should get 400 or thereabouts really.
In fairness, from 30-4, anything over 250 is a really decent effort.
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Depends on how Men approaches it, if he can hog the strike and make them try to bowl him rather than gift him singles Lords flattens out quickly.
If he plays it right and rotates the strike then we should get to 400. I just think that their seam attack, refreshed after a night's rest with a newish ball will expose our brittle tail.
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Root, Stokes, Buttler and Ali have done a great job today. Let's hope Broad can hang around and let Moeen play tomorrow.
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The trouble is that Briad has gone from being an all rounder to someone who possibly should come in even after Jimmy.
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The trouble is that Briad has gone from being an all rounder to someone who possibly should come in even after Jimmy.
I think that should definitely be the case at the moment. At least Jimmy can block up an end for a few overs
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I'm getting very worried about Bell now, it sounds like he was beaten by an absolute doozy today so as a standalone wicket I'm not concerned but he's getting out for very little too often, and it almost always happens after a bit of collapse which is the point where you want a guy who's one of our most experienced batsmen to stand up.
Wonder if he's got a cup final ticket and is hoping to be dropped for the Headingley Test?
Time for a look at Taylor instead of Bell?
Bell's natural successor is at Warwickshire, though currently has a dislocated shoulder.
I don't think Sam Hain qualifies for England until 2016. As good as he looks I reckon he needs a couple of seasons in county cricket under his belt before he gets an England call.
It was a bit tongue in cheek from a Bears fan! I like Taylor and think he would definitely be next in line if Bell is dropped.
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God almighty you guys heard the reason Stokes came in ahead of Ali? Apparently Ali was batting in the nets and didn't have time to get his kit on. That is utterly embarrassing and shambolic. Should someone not have called him in once the 2nd or 3rd wicket went down?
Worked out okay though!
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That was a great day of Test cricket.
As an England fan I have to worry once again about our top order, but 3 out of the 4 were done by good bowling on a seaming pitch early on, but as an opener and number three you should expect that surely?
Brilliant fightback, and at the sort of scoring rate that even the Aussies would appreciate.
Enjoyed that a lot, good stuff.
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Tongue in cheek, maybe Bell has the chance to go to Wembley with Chris Woakes, i see both of them down Villa Park fairly often.
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Moeen going is annoying, but it was a good and important 58 he scored.
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Broad's batting is just woeful now. He should only be considered for his bowling.
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Broad's batting has gone dramatically backwards. To think he's got a test best score of 169 albeit in a match tainted by spot fixing. He's a genuine number 11 now.
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Damn shame that Moeen couldn't stick around for another 7-8 overs but it looks like the pitch is lively again this morning so getting an earlier chance to go at them might not be the worst thing in the world. I think we've made a competitive total so anything more is a bonus anyway, we're probably slight favourites right now.
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Yeah I think it's a decent total now on the back of excellent work from Root, Stokes, Buttler and Moeen. Hopefully Stokes and Moeen will get some confidence to bowl with as well.
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389, I doubt anyone would've turned that down 24 hours ago. Now let's get a couple of wickets before lunch and make the most of the devil in the pitch this morning.
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I definitely would have taken 389, so let's make the most of it.
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I'd make a bowling change now probably, because they've started well.
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too many wide deliveries, when a pitch is only going to get better as appears the case here you have to make the batsmen play when things are happening.
Should've been a good wicket for Wood, that's a very good line on this pitch, looks like he's overstepped the crease though.
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On another point, they listed Wood as Medium Fast, he's bowling up over 90 so I think that's quite wide of the mark, I doubt there's many quicker bowlers around right now.
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Good to see a bowler with pace, but these wickets to no balls are becoming a problem. There's no need to push that line. Pretty poor overall, but Wood is encouraging.
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England are a bowler short.
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I'd love to see someone with this sort of pace but also a little taller to make the inswinging yorker a real weapon, Harmison got to the top of the bowling charts on the back of his ability to mix in some big bouncers and sharp yorkers for variation.
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and that's why I'd have kept Jordan in the side and had him in the slips any time he wasn't bowling, you can't overstep and you can't put down regulation catches, basic errors and indiscipline costing us.
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Hmmm poor from Bell there. Our score isn't looking so good now.
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I'd give Ali a bowl, I think a change of pace might be an idea.
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Stokes is bowling well, but Anderson isn't. Get Ali on Cook.
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See Cook has clearly loss confidence in Ali due to his performance in the Caribbean, which I grant you was poor. However he needs to remember what he did last summer and give him a chance. All too often Cook refuses to go to spinners and it's clear that we're not having any success with pace at the moment.
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And there you go, Moeen gets the breakthrough. Why does it take Cook so long to see the obvious?
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This one is starting to slip away from us.
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Moeen bowled pretty well today and was unfortunate. Overall I think this shows we were way below par. Cook has been guilty of letting things drift again as well.
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With the usual caveat that I know nothing about cricket, 8/1 England to win seems very good odds given the scores so far.
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I'd say it's extremely unlikely that England win, but you never know if they make a good start tomorrow.
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Hopefully Moeen's bowling today will make Cook believe in him again and bowl him more.
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Cook needs to believe in himself more and everything else will become a little easier.
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I just think he's not a good captain. He's had plenty of time in the job and he's never appeared to develop any instinct. He's a good player and should be in the team, but he's not a captain.
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I just think he's not a good captain. He's had plenty of time in the job and he's never appeared to develop any instinct. He's a good player and should be in the team, but he's not a captain.
It's ironic that Cook was off the field and Root was temporarily in charge when Ali was given the ball and took a wicket.
It shows what a poor captain Cook is. If he has no faith in Ali as a bowler then do something about it and make sure the selectors pick someone else.
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I didn't realise that. In which case he should be removed as captain now.
If things don't go out way in the first hour then it could get pretty ugly.
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Broad has bowled quite well, but Anderson has been poor. I'd be inclined to bowl Ali while the ball is still hard, but Cook won't do that.
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Cook is far far too slow to move away from those he has faith in and to give others a chance.
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It's all very formulaic from England, generally in all forms of cricket. Completely unresponsive, set in their routines and ways and once you get on top of us very easy to play against.
I find it amazing it's even still being discussed on how to help Cook as a captain, he's shite, let him concentrate on his batting because he brings nothing to the captaincy table.
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I didn't realise that. In which case he should be removed as captain now.
If things don't go out way in the first hour then it could get pretty ugly.
Cook has previous for it though doesn't he? Remember Kerrigan at the Oval in 2013? I don't think he got a bowl in the Aussies second innings.
Although he is not a selector, he does have input into selection. If he doesn't rate Ali as a bowler then why select him?
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Ali needs more of a go. Good to hear Gillespie say he'd take the job.
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Ali needs more of a go. Good to hear Gillespie say he'd take the job.
Other than Farbrace, I wonder who else they're looking at?
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I'm very impressed by Wood. Good pace and bowling well. I feel sorry for Stokes Bell is having a shocking game.
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Good over by Ali
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Moeen once again showing his worth. He's much better than he's given credit for and should have been bowled earlier.
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Out top order is a fucking disgrace. How dare Tveter Castro pietersen into the the long grass
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Hopefully Cook and Bell can go big. Moeen showed his class today and must be bowled more. Also Wood looks potentially very good and I look forward to seeing his career progress. He offers us the pace we've been missing.
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Hopefully Cook and Bell can go big. Moeen showed his class today and must be bowled more. Also Wood looks potentially very good and I look forward to seeing his career progress. He offers us the pace we've been missing.
Are you Moeen Ali's agent? :)
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Ha maybe I should be, because he's massively underrated. He bowled excellently today.
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Out top order is a fucking disgrace. How dare Tveter Castro pietersen into the the long grass
I'll be honest, I really don't know. It's a toughie.
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Cook and Bell should be opening. The balance doesn't seem right at the moment - a top order that folds too easily and a middle order that may have to be very good at rebuilding innings.
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I didn't realise that. In which case he should be removed as captain now.
If things don't go out way in the first hour then it could get pretty ugly.
Cook has previous for it though doesn't he? Remember Kerrigan at the Oval in 2013? I don't think he got a bowl in the Aussies second innings.
Although he is not a selector, he does have input into selection. If he doesn't rate Ali as a bowler then why select him?
I really think it is time for Cook to resign as captain. I don't think he really has any idea about how to use his bowlers and really lacks the instinct needed for captaincy.
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Out top order is a fucking disgrace. How dare Tveter Castro pietersen into the the long grass
I'll be honest, I really don't know. It's a toughie.
I am running 30 high powered code breaking algorithms in parallel on this one. This Tveter Castro chappy sounds like an absolute bounder and he should not be pietersoning in the long grass in any event.
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Is this Castro bloke an over-rated tosser as well?
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I didn't realise that. In which case he should be removed as captain now.
If things don't go out way in the first hour then it could get pretty ugly.
Cook has previous for it though doesn't he? Remember Kerrigan at the Oval in 2013? I don't think he got a bowl in the Aussies second innings.
Although he is not a selector, he does have input into selection. If he doesn't rate Ali as a bowler then why select him?
I really think it is time for Cook to resign as captain. I don't think he really has any idea about how to use his bowlers and really lacks the instinct needed for captaincy.
He should have gone after Australia, he only kept the job because there weren't really any alternatives.
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I didn't realise that. In which case he should be removed as captain now.
If things don't go out way in the first hour then it could get pretty ugly.
Cook has previous for it though doesn't he? Remember Kerrigan at the Oval in 2013? I don't think he got a bowl in the Aussies second innings.
Although he is not a selector, he does have input into selection. If he doesn't rate Ali as a bowler then why select him?
I really think it is time for Cook to resign as captain. I don't think he really has any idea about how to use his bowlers and really lacks the instinct needed for captaincy.
He should have gone after Australia, he only kept the job because there weren't really any alternatives.
Agree, but I think the alternatives are there now. Bell needs to pick his form up but he could be an option for the medium term, whereas Root is the outstanding long term candidate.
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Out top order is a fucking disgrace. How dare Tveter Castro pietersen into the the long grass
I'll be honest, I really don't know. It's a toughie.
This may be quite surprising, but I was a little bit drunk when I posted that!
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3rd fucking ball of the day?
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I didn't realise that. In which case he should be removed as captain now.
If things don't go out way in the first hour then it could get pretty ugly.
Cook has previous for it though doesn't he? Remember Kerrigan at the Oval in 2013? I don't think he got a bowl in the Aussies second innings.
Although he is not a selector, he does have input into selection. If he doesn't rate Ali as a bowler then why select him?
I really think it is time for Cook to resign as captain. I don't think he really has any idea about how to use his bowlers and really lacks the instinct needed for captaincy.
Don't think he will ever resign, he still thinks he should be the one day and 20-20 captain
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If we lose this series, we'll be down to 7th in the test rankings. Thoroughly deserved
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3rd fucking ball of the day?
If it wasn't before, the top order is becoming a real problem. We aren't going to beat good opposition if we are 50-3 on a consistent basis.
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I think Bell's gone mentally. Cook is really looking like the old Cook, which is very encouraging. Especially since these are good bowlers.
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Out top order is a fucking disgrace. How dare Tveter Castro pietersen into the the long grass
I'll be honest, I really don't know. It's a toughie.
This may be quite surprising, but I was a little bit drunk when I posted that!
Think you got away with it although I was up all night trying to find an answer for you!
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Good fight shown so far by Cook and Root. Need both to go on to make sizeable hundreds. Always feel a collapse is imminent though
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I enjoy the competitive nature of the Ashes but at the same time the snarling, in your face, aggressive behaviour from the Aussies reminds me why it's hard to like them but it's noticeable in this Test what a good spirit it's being played in. Plenty of smiles from players on both sides but still an enjoyable and competitive Test, I like the New Zealand team.
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lovely counter-attacking performance from Stokes again. I doubt we can win from here but to give us a chance we need a lead of 300+ by the end of the day and Stokes and Buttler are the players who can give us that.
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Some lovely hitting by Stokes here. Like when Freddie was in one of his moods.
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Yeah this is exactly like a KP or Flintoff game changing session. Absolutely cracking hitting from Stokes, not slogs either genuine shots.
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That's something else from Stokes. It'd be nice if he could start adding some more wickets to his game, because what a genuine star we'd have then. Man of the match for his batting, no question.
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His bowling is the frustrating thing, because he bowls well but doesn't really look like taking wickets. I still think his batting is a bit hit and miss but he's been superb in this match.
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I hope Buttler goes out with the same attitude, we've got a lot of time left in the day, some really aggressive cricket here starts making them think about playing for the draw, which is a big swing in the match as it had NZ victory written all over it at 11:02 this morning.
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Our run rate has improved this test too. Back to 3.5+ an over which is where you need to be.
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Brilliant from Stokes and Cook today.
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Brilliant from Stokes and Cook today.
Would add Root to that as well. Despite questions about his captaincy, Cook on form is a very good batsman and was superb today. As well as getting runs, he has occupied the crease and taken time out of the game.
What a good test this has been so far. Real shame it is only a two match series as the two sides look quite evenly matched and a five test series could have been intriguing.
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I enjoy the competitive nature of the Ashes but at the same time the snarling, in your face, aggressive behaviour from the Aussies reminds me why it's hard to like them but it's noticeable in this Test what a good spirit it's being played in. Plenty of smiles from players on both sides but still an enjoyable and competitive Test, I like the New Zealand team.
Agree. All ifs and buts, but if Vettori was still playing for them, this New Zealand side would be an even better outfit. Their spinner has struggled a bit.
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Up early and off to queue at the North Gate.
Bargain price on the train from Eastleigh of £24 return for the two of us instead of the usual £115.
Twenty quid in to watch a whole days Cricket. My partners first time at the home of Cricket.
Sandwiches and homemade lemonade. Can't wait and the result is largely irrelevant. This is what I love about this game.
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Good luck Andy, which I was going today.
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Cook has returned to be a quality batsman. Root continues to be brilliant and Stokes is starting to show his ability.
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I thought Sunday was the best day of test cricket from England for a long time. It's been an absorbing test so far.
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I'll be disappointed if they appoint Bayliss and not Gillespie.
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They're clearly scoring as quickly as they can this morning. Is the plan to get a lead of 350, dangle the carrot a bit and have nearly a day to bowl the Kiwis out? It would be out of character for Cook, but it might be fun.
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I do really like the axis of Stokes, Buttler and Ali.
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What is the effing point of batting on now? What?
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I do really like the axis of Stokes, Buttler and Ali.
My only concern would be that Moeen becomes a bit disillusioned batting as low as 8. As they yave said in commentary, Broad's batting is now a problem.
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What is the effing point of batting on now? What?
That's Cook for you.
Even Sir Geoffrey was hoping that Jimmy got knocked over quickly.
Luckily for the hope of an entertaining finish, he was
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What a wasted hour of cricket.
Time for Jimmy to arrive in the match.
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What a wasted hour of cricket.
Time for Jimmy to arrive in the match.
Perfect start. Guptill can do some damage.
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Guppers as I heard him referred to yesterday
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Two down, great ball by Broad. 0-2
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Guppers as I heard him referred to yesterday
My Dear Old Thing!
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Broad on a between innings hat trick
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New Zealand's batters are making Cook look like a tactical genius
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Well....this is going quite well
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Looks like Broad might just have one of his trainwrecking spells to help Cook out of trouble.
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I'll be disappointed if they appoint Bayliss and not Gillespie.
I won't!
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Sounds like it's definitely Bayliss. Well I hope he gets us playing an attacking style of cricket.
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Stokes is having the game of his life. McCullum out first ball and Stokes on a hat trick
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Stokes has come of age. World class over that, reminiscent of Flintoff.
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Sounds like it's definitely Bayliss. Well I hope he gets us playing an attacking style of cricket.
You have to question the ECB PR team. They handle things so badly. First there was the leak of Peter Moores dismissal whilst he's with the side for an ODI in Dublin. Now it seems Gillespie is not first choice as we have been previously lead to believe and Bayliss is favourite. Add to the mess that they made of the KP situation and we look amateurish.
Strauss needs to sort them out and soon.
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Stokes' bowling was pretty ferocious there, and his batting was more controlled than Flintoff's ever was, though just as aggressive. We may have something special with this one.
I feel a bit for Mark Wood. He's bowled as well as anyone, in my view, but the ball keeps missing the edge by millimeters. Hope he gets his rewards.
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I really like the look of Wood. He reminds me of Simon Jones at his peak.
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Excellent news for Yorkshire, think he may have been lead along a bit as Yorkshire were resigned to losing him.
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Anderson is doing some damage.
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What a fun session - Corey Anderson certainly bounded in with some gladiatorial bish and flourish, and Stokes bowling was very exciting. I'd like to see us get Wood on straight after tea - he was looking very dangerous.
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It's games like this where you miss a top quality spinner who can bowl at one end whilst the seamers are rotated at the other. As it stands, Ali has bowled very poorly and unsurprisingly Cook took him off.
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Wood thoroughly deserves that, he's bowled very well today.
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I really like the commentary from the third umpire when they review a decision. It really enhances the use of technology
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The three young players - Root, Stokes, Ballance - are starting to look like the foundations of a really good side.
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Bowled him!!! This has been a great test.
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This has been a fantastic Test (or Tist if you're from New Zealand), give me the long form game over the crash, bang, wallop of 20/20 any day.
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Some many big contributions in this game.
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I really like the look of Wood. He reminds me of Simon Jones at his peak.
I agree, and I firmly believe losing Jones to Injury set us back a couple of years and led to us losing the 06/07 ashes series, massively underrated bowler who gave us the ability to do something different.
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What a catch Moeen Ali!!
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Moeen, Moeen, Moeen, Moeeeeeeen
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Brilliant catch, nice to see the game won with something a bit special after a handful of special performances. Fair play to Stokes, he's had a phenomenal test. I still think Cook is a poor captain but we've got some real talent in the squad.
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What a game. 523 in the first innings and they lose. Incredible.
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Where in God's name did that win come from?
Fantastic stuff.
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Great catch to win it
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Well done England great all round performance. May be Cook's critics and Pietersen's friends can shut up for a little while.
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What a game. 523 in the first innings and they lose. Incredible.
Typical New Zealand all show no substance.
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Great catch to win it
Yes Moeen did very well for that one and also C&B for the wicket prior to that.
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Well done England great all round performance. May be Cook's critics and Pietersen's friends can shut up for a little while.
Hopefully with regards to the latter, but I'm still not convinced about the former. He had a good day today, but I still think there are questions about his captaincy.
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Well done England great all round performance. May be Cook's critics and Pietersen's friends can shut up for a little while.
Hopefully with regards to the latter, but I'm still not convinced about the former. He had a good day today, but I still think there are questions about his captaincy.
He made the same mistakes as always today and, in my opinion, he'd set up for the draw when our last wicket went down, it was only when we skittled the openers cheaply that anyone really gave us a chance of winning it (from what I can tell, I didn't watch until the last half hour) and only when McCullum went first ball that it became a genuine prospect, that's certainly the feeling all the online live feeds gave.
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Poor bloke can't win with some whatever he does!
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To win a test when you were reduced to 30-4 in the first innings and concede a lead of 134 is remarkable.
The thing with Cook is that he is a poor tactician. He captains by example and leads from the front. He is popular with his team and you could see that by the reaction of the players on the balcony when he reached 3 figures yesterday. When he is in form his critics will be silenced. He's been through a poor run of form and I think the loss of the one day captaincy has helped him focus on tests and the results are clear.
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With the usual caveat that I know nothing about cricket, 8/1 England to win seems very good odds given the scores so far.
17/2 was even better.
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What a day!
Got a nice spot in the Tavern stand, square of the wicket. The place was rammed, stand after stand had to be opened up as so many to watch. Other than the Warner stand, which is for the bacon and egg boys and their mates, I'd say it was a full house.
So many first timers too. Hats off to MCC for a job well done.
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You can't beat a good Test match, glad you enjoyed the day Andy.
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I thought he got it right. We couldn't lose the game on the last day and we took our chances.
The 5 day game has reached a new level - over 1500 runs scored and 20 wickets taken with only 8.5 overs remaining of the game.
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What a day!
Got a nice spot in the Tavern stand, square of the wicket. The place was rammed, stand after stand had to be opened up as so many to watch. Other than the Warner stand, which is for the bacon and egg boys and their mates, I'd say it was a full house.
So many first timers too. Hats off to MCC for a job well done.
Well done Andy sounds like you got your money's worth. You took a chance to go on a day that was seen by nearly everyone as a dead day but what a day! Fortune favours the brave.
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I thought he got it right. We couldn't lose the game on the last day and we took our chances.
The 5 day game has reached a new level - over 1500 runs scored and 20 wickets taken with only 8.5 overs remaining of the game.
Don't want to be too critical after a great win, but it would have been interesting had we not been bowled out. It forced Cook's hand, as I'm not sure he would have been too keen on declaring.
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Stokes has showed why he must play and why he'll be a hell of a player.
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Stokes has showed why he must play and why he'll be a hell of a player.
Agree, but I hope too much pressure is not put on him. I think we have to accept that if he continues to play that way, there are going to be days when he does not fire. Saying that, to see a one day team featuring him, Morgan and Buttler will be worth watching.
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I thought he got it right. We couldn't lose the game on the last day and we took our chances.
The 5 day game has reached a new level - over 1500 runs scored and 20 wickets taken with only 8.5 overs remaining of the game.
Don't want to be too critical after a great win, but it would have been interesting had we not been bowled out. It forced Cook's hand, as I'm not sure he would have been too keen on declaring.
That's my suspicion. They scored quickly in the morning as if they were looking for a declaration, but I suspect Cook was looking at closer to 400 than 350, which probably wouldn't have left us enough time to win the match.
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Bayliss confirmed. I've got over my initial disappointment with Gillespie. Bayliss's record is outstanding.
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Bayliss confirmed. I've got over my initial disappointment with Gillespie. Bayliss's record is outstanding.
Especially in the shorter formats of the game. Worked with Farbrace before, so I'm sure he will remain part of the set up. Fair play to Strauss, he's acted quickly and decisively as we were in danger of drifting through the summer.
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Think it could be a good appointment, admit I don't know anything about Bayliss but everybody seems to speak highly of him and I'm delighted Gillespie is staying at Yorkshire where he can continue to help produce more future England players.
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the Australian perspective (http://www.cricket.com.au/news/feature/trevor-bayliss-affable-good-nature-but-knows-when-to-crack-whip/2015-05-27)
Bayliss brings steel to strengthen England
Andrew Ramsey, Senior Writer
Affable and good-natured, Trevor Bayliss also knows how to crack the whip to get the best from his charges
Much of the early commentary around Trevor Bayliss's appointment as England's next cricket coach has focused on his affable nature and his capacity to extract the best from players by nurturing a tranquil dressing room environment.
Amid the disappointment of his team's crushing Test loss to England at Lord's this week, New Zealand captain Brendon McCullum – who played under Bayliss in the Indian Premier League – claimed he would seek him out for a beer if he arrived in Leeds in time for the second Test starting Friday.
Former Australia legspinner turned commentator Shane Warne, who has long maintained the only use a Test team should have for a coach is to ferry them to and from a playing venue, tweeted that England had chosen wisely with Bayliss because "he is a ripper".
And Geoff Lawson, the ex-Test bowler and Pakistan coach who played with Bayliss at NSW in the 1980s and 90s and was on the panel that re-appointed him as the Blues' coach in 2013, noted that the 52-year-old's pre-eminent gift as a coach was that he "keeps it simple".
But you don't guide teams to trophies in such overtly competitive forums as the IPL, the Bupa Sheffield Shield and the KFC T20 Big Bash League unless you are willing to crack the whip when needed, and Bayliss's players well know the important difference between 'stress-free' and 'without-care'.
And while Bayliss's highly developed man-management skills won't be tested by the polarising presence of Kevin Pietersen, as was the challenge for his immediate predecessors in the England job Peter Moores and Andy Flower, he won't compromise on his philosophy for rank or reputation.
Just ask Australia's third-highest wicket-taker across all three international formats, Brett Lee.
In the languid days that traditionally follow Christmas, Lee – in his final season with the Sydney Sixers last year – was scheduled for a media appearance with local rivals the Sydney Thunder's star recruit Jacques Kallis to help promote the teams' post Boxing Day-derby at ANZ Stadium.
However, when the planned press event was found to clash with an impromptu fielding session instituted by Bayliss, he was asked if – in the Yuletide spirit – Lee could be excused from drills he had participated in umpteen times throughout his 20-year career in order to make the photo call.
The coach refused to grant the 38-year-old fast bowler a leave pass from fielding training, adding gruffly "because he needs it".
It sends a clear message that while the man who was confirmed as England's Test and limited-overs coach overnight ago prefers to keep out of players' faces and minds, he won't turn a blind eye to the cutting of corners.
Even though his talents as a solid middle-order batsman and predatory in-fielder were never rewarded with international selection, he knows what it is like to share a working environment with elite-level cricketers.
In one of his first Shield matches for NSW in 1988, he was part of an XI that included 10 other players who either had or would go on to represent Australia in the Test arena.
And having succeeded fellow Australian Tom Moody as coach of Sri Lanka in 2007, he led a team of brilliant individuals and strong personalities to the 2011 World Cup Final (which they lost to home team India) and a Test win:loss record of 14:7 from 31 matches played.
But even Bayliss, renowned for unflappability and who Lawson maintains "never gets overly excited or overly depressed by the game or by performances" sometimes struggled to keep a lid on the agitation and anxiety that would sweep through the Sri Lankan room at crucial times.
Bayliss has been known to reflect wistfully on those moments when he would hear the background hubbub of Sinhalese rapidly rising and, sensing panic was afoot, would reassure all within earshot that events were in hand and that the match situation was progressing well.
These interventions would sometimes end in a subsequent clatter of chairs as a member of the playing squad jumped to their feet, grabbed a fresh pair of batting gloves or water bottle and charged on to the field to deliver a message that was unknown to, nor sanctioned by, the coach.
But Bayliss remained true to his methods, and it is as much his experience with the Sri Lankan team – during which they were subjected to a terrorist ambush and their bus sprayed with gunfire while en route to Gaddafi Stadium in Lahore in 2009 – as his triumphs in the red and white ball formats that have impressed England.
The England and Wales Cricket Board's new Director of Cricket Andrew Strauss made it clear when identifying the reasons why a new coach was needed that Moores had been found wanting in crafting strategies – particularly in the limited-overs game – at international level.
With his pedigree in T20 franchise competitions and the results he achieved with Sri Lanka in the 50-over game, Bayliss will be expected to significantly sharpen England's white ball skills given they are currently ranked sixth in ODIs and a lowly eighth in T20 internationals.
And any shortfalls in his knowledge of the England county scene, its players and processes will be filled by the current caretaker coach Paul Farbrace – who was Bayliss's trusted deputy in Sri Lanka and is well-liked by the playing group – who has been confirmed to remain as assistant coach.
It was a lack of international coaching experience and a similar paucity of involvement in the limited-overs format that – along with the strains that constant travelling would place on his wife and four young children – reputedly stacked up against early coaching favourite, Jason Gillespie.
While Bayliss's children are older – his son is at university and plays third division for Sydney grade club Penrith, while his daughter is completing her HSC this year – the scrutiny he receives in a nation that feasts ravenously on sporting failure will be both intense and immediate.
Due to land in England next month, his first assignment will be plotting the demise of an Australian Test team that won back the Ashes 18 months ago with a five-nil humiliation of a disunited, dispirited England.
In the longer term, Bayliss will be expected to replicate another recent Australia triumph when England hosts the 2019 ICC World Cup with an unspoken expectation that it is well past time the game's homeland secured a trophy it has failed to lift at 11 previous attempts spanning 40 years.
If the imperturbable ambience that Bayliss is known for has the desired effect and helps to maximise his players' output, it is also expected to shield him from the spotlight that will burn on him from the moment he becomes the first Australian to slip on an England cricket coach's tracksuit.
Those expecting him to be on call 24/7, trawling social media, firing off endless text message reminders and rejoinders to his players will find themselves sadly misled.
There are those who work with him who doubt that he even knows how to decode the complexities of a modern mobile phone given the difficulty they have found in tracking him down when he's away from the cricket environment.
While he's unlikely to insist on the same clause that former England and India coach Duncan Fletcher supposedly had in his most recent contract whereby he was guaranteed quarantine from the voracious daily press, Bayliss is expected to meet his media obligations with a polite equanimity.
Which provided another tick in a box for an employer who has seen first-hand over the past year or more how combustible comments made in public can effectively derail every best attempt to restrict focus to on-field performances.
Lawson, whose tenure as coach of Pakistan was in part ended by a falling out with influential sections of the local press, believes that even as a 'foreign' coach with no direct experience of the game in England Bayliss was unlikely to be fazed by the depth of media examination that will confront him.
"If the players have respect for the coach and his ability to coach and his communication skills, then you don't really have those problems," Lawson told cricket.com.au last year in relation to Bayliss being subjected to possible public trial by the UK press.
"If you're a foreign coach, and even in Australia if you leave your state and go and coach somewhere else, you face the same sort of thing.
"You can ignore the media, and even ignore the administrators to a large degree.
"If players want to listen and learn then there won't be a problem."
The first chance for England's players to show they are listening to and learning from their new mentor will come in the opening Ashes Test, which begins in Cardiff on July 8.
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Rashid out for 99 today, he took 8 wickets in the last match. He's a genuine all rounder these days, excellent fielder too.
If Bell continues to struggle could move Ali back up to 3 and bring Rashid in to bat at 8.
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Rashid out for 99 today, he took 8 wickets in the last match. He's a genuine all rounder these days, excellent fielder too.
If Bell continues to struggle could move Ali back up to 3 and bring Rashid in to bat at 8.
I think that could be a good option.
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Ali at 4 though.
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Ali at 4 though.
Forgot Ballance is at 3!
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I have a feeling that Rashid's card was marked during the West Indies tour.
There was plenty of positive press about Lyth, Wood and Bairstow as non-playing squad members but not about Rashid and you have to ask why.
Maybe the whole Yorkshire want him back if he's not playing/ECB say no saga affected him, or he didn't handle matters professionally.
I would like to see him in the side, he's a player I've always rated but you have to question whether his continued non-selection is for non-cricketing reasons. Does he knuckle down and get stuck in during practice when on tour as a non-playing squad member? Something is not quite right here.
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Rashid out for 99 today, he took 8 wickets in the last match. He's a genuine all rounder these days, excellent fielder too.
If Bell continues to struggle could move Ali back up to 3 and bring Rashid in to bat at 8.
I think that could be a good option.
Why is that a surprise!! Moeen Ali is OK where he is, as he needs to work on developing his bowling.
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Rashid out for 99 today, he took 8 wickets in the last match. He's a genuine all rounder these days, excellent fielder too.
If Bell continues to struggle could move Ali back up to 3 and bring Rashid in to bat at 8.
I think that could be a good option.
Why is that a surprise!! Moeen Ali is OK where he is, as he needs to work on developing his bowling.
It shouldn't be, someone who's batted his entire career in the top 3 really is too good to be at 8 so looking at ways to push him higher up the order just seems to be good sense to me. My only worry is that with Moeen, Root and Stokes at 4, 5 and 6 we could end up with too many bowling options but what I'd really like to see is a call up for a bowler (spinner or quick) who can do 10-12 over spells at one end so at the other we can rotate between Anderson, Broad, Wood and Stokes all getting 3-4 over spells so they can put everything into it. Moeen should be able to do that as well so have 2 rotating at one end and then the others getting short spells at the other end, with Root filling in where needed.
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Ali at 4 would give us the option of another specialist spinner I guess.
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Ali at 4 would give us the option of another specialist spinner I guess.
Absolutely, good timing seeing as Kerrigan apparently bowled superbly against derbyshire, I still think he's the one we should be looking at long term.
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Rashid out for 99 today, he took 8 wickets in the last match. He's a genuine all rounder these days, excellent fielder too.
If Bell continues to struggle could move Ali back up to 3 and bring Rashid in to bat at 8.
I think that could be a good option.
Why is that a surprise!! Moeen Ali is OK where he is, as he needs to work on developing his bowling.
It shouldn't be, someone who's batted his entire career in the top 3 really is too good to be at 8 so looking at ways to push him higher up the order just seems to be good sense to me. My only worry is that with Moeen, Root and Stokes at 4, 5 and 6 we could end up with too many bowling options but what I'd really like to see is a call up for a bowler (spinner or quick) who can do 10-12 over spells at one end so at the other we can rotate between Anderson, Broad, Wood and Stokes all getting 3-4 over spells so they can put everything into it. Moeen should be able to do that as well so have 2 rotating at one end and then the others getting short spells at the other end, with Root filling in where needed.
Sorry Paul, but if Moeen is going to be considered primarily on his batting there are better options in county cricket. He is in the side as the first choice spinner and batting at eight will allow him to concentrate on that.
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I don't think Moeen's batting should be sniffed at. He's scored two 50s and a 40 in his last four innings. Most importantly he's been involved in some vital partnerships.
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I don't think Moeen's batting should be sniffed at. He's scored two 50s and a 40 in his last four innings. Most importantly he's been involved in some vital partnerships.
Oh I agree Paul, but while his potential as a bowler is being worked on, batting at eight might suit him.
Interesting article on Moeen that is worth a read:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/881433.html
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but he's not being considered solely on his batting, he's being picked as an all-rounder, and he's doing well enough in both aspects. I get the point you're trying to make but, for me, it's a little out of date. T20 has changed the game and one of the things that's come from that is that having 2-3 batting all-rounders is becoming much more common, Stokes is one, Moeen is another and Root has enough of a golden arm to be considered as a third. Fitting those 3 into our top 7 means we can still have a bowling all rounder or 2 (such as Jordan or Rashid) and have space to pick a couple of rabbits. Flexibility is much more valuable now than it was before, if that means we play on pitch where it's moving in the air and Moeen doesn't need to bowl then so be it, in the past we'd have bowled Swann regardless because we had no choice. If that gets balanced out by games where he's brought on after 10 over and does a third of the bowling to himself then even better.
If his batting turns out to not be good enough to be in the top 4 then ok we can move him back (or if the guy we brought in down the order is looking good maybe replace him) but right now, if Bell can't sort himself out, I'd rather see Moeen in at 4 and Kerrigan or Rashid in down the order than see another batsman (such as Taylor) called in. To me Moeen is too good to be batting at 8, it's nice having him down there to cover for a top order collapse but I don't think that's a long term strategy.
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but he's not being considered solely on his batting, he's being picked as an all-rounder, and he's doing well enough in both aspects. I get the point you're trying to make but, for me, it's a little out of date. T20 has changed the game and one of the things that's come from that is that having 2-3 batting all-rounders is becoming much more common, Stokes is one, Moeen is another and Root has enough of a golden arm to be considered as a third. Fitting those 3 into our top 7 means we can still have a bowling all rounder or 2 (such as Jordan or Rashid) and have space to pick a couple of rabbits. Flexibility is much more valuable now than it was before, if that means we play on pitch where it's moving in the air and Moeen doesn't need to bowl then so be it, in the past we'd have bowled Swann regardless because we had no choice. If that gets balanced out by games where he's brought on after 10 over and does a third of the bowling to himself then even better.
If his batting turns out to not be good enough to be in the top 4 then ok we can move him back (or if the guy we brought in down the order is looking good maybe replace him) but right now, if Bell can't sort himself out, I'd rather see Moeen in at 4 and Kerrigan or Rashid in down the order than see another batsman (such as Taylor) called in. To me Moeen is too good to be batting at 8, it's nice having him down there to cover for a top order collapse but I don't think that's a long term strategy.
I'm not sold on that idea at all, but I guess we'll see. I think the line up we have now should probably stay in place to start the Ashes. I also think the reporting of Ian Bell's decline are very premature indeed, especially as he scored a big hundred only a few games ago. I think him, Cook and Ballance should return to county cricket after this test series ends to get themselves ready for the Australians.
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but he's not being considered solely on his batting, he's being picked as an all-rounder, and he's doing well enough in both aspects. I get the point you're trying to make but, for me, it's a little out of date. T20 has changed the game and one of the things that's come from that is that having 2-3 batting all-rounders is becoming much more common, Stokes is one, Moeen is another and Root has enough of a golden arm to be considered as a third. Fitting those 3 into our top 7 means we can still have a bowling all rounder or 2 (such as Jordan or Rashid) and have space to pick a couple of rabbits. Flexibility is much more valuable now than it was before, if that means we play on pitch where it's moving in the air and Moeen doesn't need to bowl then so be it, in the past we'd have bowled Swann regardless because we had no choice. If that gets balanced out by games where he's brought on after 10 over and does a third of the bowling to himself then even better.
If his batting turns out to not be good enough to be in the top 4 then ok we can move him back (or if the guy we brought in down the order is looking good maybe replace him) but right now, if Bell can't sort himself out, I'd rather see Moeen in at 4 and Kerrigan or Rashid in down the order than see another batsman (such as Taylor) called in. To me Moeen is too good to be batting at 8, it's nice having him down there to cover for a top order collapse but I don't think that's a long term strategy.
I'm not sold on that idea at all, but I guess we'll see. I think the line up we have now should probably stay in place to start the Ashes. I also think the reporting of Ian Bell's decline are very premature indeed, especially as he scored a big hundred only a few games ago. I think him, Cook and Ballance should return to county cricket after this test series ends to get themselves ready for the Australians.
Regarding Bell I hope you're right but he's hanging on a bit at the minute, 185 runs in 7 innings this year but 143 of those came in 1 innings, so without that his average is 7, he needs to get back to where he's been before which is 30-40 on a 'bad' day and then the centuries pushing his average up to 45ish. He had a similar problem last summer where over a 3rd of his runs for the 7 tests came in 1 innings and there were too many single figure scores in between, and that was on the back of a very disappointing ashes series down under so it's nearly 2 years of getting out cheap far too often. It's the same cumulative under-performance that has made Cook feel some pressure, I hope Bell can respond the same way but as a team we really need to think about how long we let someone under-perform before dropping them, Prior, for example, lived on past glories for about 2 years before he made the decision to retire, I don't think he was genuinely under any threat if he had wanted to stay.
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but he's not being considered solely on his batting, he's being picked as an all-rounder, and he's doing well enough in both aspects. I get the point you're trying to make but, for me, it's a little out of date. T20 has changed the game and one of the things that's come from that is that having 2-3 batting all-rounders is becoming much more common, Stokes is one, Moeen is another and Root has enough of a golden arm to be considered as a third. Fitting those 3 into our top 7 means we can still have a bowling all rounder or 2 (such as Jordan or Rashid) and have space to pick a couple of rabbits. Flexibility is much more valuable now than it was before, if that means we play on pitch where it's moving in the air and Moeen doesn't need to bowl then so be it, in the past we'd have bowled Swann regardless because we had no choice. If that gets balanced out by games where he's brought on after 10 over and does a third of the bowling to himself then even better.
If his batting turns out to not be good enough to be in the top 4 then ok we can move him back (or if the guy we brought in down the order is looking good maybe replace him) but right now, if Bell can't sort himself out, I'd rather see Moeen in at 4 and Kerrigan or Rashid in down the order than see another batsman (such as Taylor) called in. To me Moeen is too good to be batting at 8, it's nice having him down there to cover for a top order collapse but I don't think that's a long term strategy.
I'm not sold on that idea at all, but I guess we'll see. I think the line up we have now should probably stay in place to start the Ashes. I also think the reporting of Ian Bell's decline are very premature indeed, especially as he scored a big hundred only a few games ago. I think him, Cook and Ballance should return to county cricket after this test series ends to get themselves ready for the Australians.
Regarding Bell I hope you're right but he's hanging on a bit at the minute, 185 runs in 7 innings this year but 143 of those came in 1 innings, so without that his average is 7, he needs to get back to where he's been before which is 30-40 on a 'bad' day and then the centuries pushing his average up to 45ish. He had a similar problem last summer where over a 3rd of his runs for the 7 tests came in 1 innings and there were too many single figure scores in between, and that was on the back of a very disappointing ashes series down under so it's nearly 2 years of getting out cheap far too often. It's the same cumulative under-performance that has made Cook feel some pressure, I hope Bell can respond the same way but as a team we really need to think about how long we let someone under-perform before dropping them, Prior, for example, lived on past glories for about 2 years before he made the decision to retire, I don't think he was genuinely under any threat if he had wanted to stay.
Agree with that. A culture of comfort has developed around the England team at times and I just wonder how much central contracting has to do with it. After all, if a player is on a central contract, they are hardly going to be too keen to shelve him while they are still being paying him (unles there a stipulations that deal with that). As I said before, I think Ian Bell should return to Warwickshire after this test series (not just saying that as a Bears fan!!) and get himself ready for the Ashes. Unless there are some major issues in the mean time, I could see this line up being the one that faces the Aussies in the first test.
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I don't think Moeen's batting should be sniffed at. He's scored two 50s and a 40 in his last four innings. Most importantly he's been involved in some vital partnerships.
Oh I agree Paul, but while his potential as a bowler is being worked on, batting at eight might suit him.
Interesting article on Moeen that is worth a read:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/881433.html
Hopefully as he drops down the order, Moeen's batting won't go the same way as Broad's
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I agree with that article. His bowling record is very good. He didn't have a great time in the Windies, but he was coming back from injury. He scored 100 runs in the last Test and took 4 wickets. That's a pretty useful contribution. Cook needs to bowl him more and he'll get better and better.
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I agree with that article. His bowling record is very good. He didn't have a great time in the Windies, but he was coming back from injury. He scored 100 runs in the last Test and took 4 wickets. That's a pretty useful contribution. Cook needs to bowl him more and he'll get better and better.
Agree that Cook should bowl him more, but he has history of not using his spinners. With the Ashes in mind, Moeen is another one who would benefit from returning to county cricket after this test and getting plenty of overs under his belt. He will probably be required for the ODI team though.
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I agree it's a failing of Cook's. Ali is basically learning in the international arena.
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I agree it's a failing of Cook's. Ali is basically learning in the international arena.
Agree. One thing that stood out from the article on him was just how few overs he had bowled in his first ten tests compared to the other names mentioned. If he's not going to bowl that much in tests, then he needs to be back at Worcester as much as possible in beteween.
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Jimmy 400 up.
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2-2 Williamson gone.
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Jimmy 400 up.
Congrats to Jimmy. Great achievement.
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As I'm not working next Tuesday I had a check to see if they are doing cheap tickets if it goes to a fifth day and was pleasantly surprised to see that tickets are £15.00 for the fourth day. Depending on the weather might take advantage of that!
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Struggling now.
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Does Tom Latham remind anyone else of Mark Lathwell?
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Honours even I'd say, we've got to stop dropping catches. The one Ballance put down would have been meat and drink for Jordan at slip.
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That's a remarkable run rate for a weather-reduced day of test cricket. If the Kiwis could tone down the one day influence in their test cricket they would be a top team.
I've not seen any of the play and only caught the last hour on TMS. Vaughan, Swann and Aggers were critical of our bowling. I think if you take 8 wickets in a shortened day you're doing alright.
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Another day of intriguing test cricket. Got the feeling tomorrow will be a crucial day. They won't want to hang around so the game should move at a fair pace. Fingers crossed for Adam Lyth when it's our turn to bat.
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Brilliant day. We need to knock them over quick now.
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It is alarming how quickly we forget to bowl at the stumps. Poor this morning.
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Stop fucking bowking short. It staggers me how dumb we are sometimes.
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Terrible tactics.
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How did it end up today? Not risking looking at BBC Sport.
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I was delighted for Lyth today until I found out he's an Arsenal supporter, so bollocks to him.*
*Give it a couple of days and I'll be genuinely happy for him.
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New Zealand 350
England 253/5
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Pretty dismal after the Lyth dismissal.
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Bell has got to be sailing very close to the wind now. This is a real shambolic collapse.
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Three wickets in 30 minutes play this morning is not improving my mood.
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Fucking disaster.
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This stems from coasting for too long yesterday. It's something we frequently do, we just let the game drift. We scored 3 runs in 7 overs yesterday and now we're massively behind the game.
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This has been a really important knock from Broad, wood and Jimmy.
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We've got to be careful here. A lot of time left in the game and the ball is disappearing to all parts at the moment. We could well find ourselves in a tough position very quickly if this continues.
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Surely the Mooen at 8 and main spinner experiment has got to end now - either play him as a proper batsman and occasional bowler or look for a specialist spinner
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We're gettunh into a very difficult situation.
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We're gettunh into a very difficult situation.
Yep. Forecast looking good for the next couple of days as well.
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It's the speed of scoring that does it.
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It's the speed of scoring that does it.
Certainly does and there is more of it to come later in the summer.
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Chris Gayle 151 off 62 balls.It didn't do him much good Somerset still lost.
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Hope the weather holds, just booked a ticket for tomorrow for £15.00, a good day of cricket should help forget about the events of Saturday.
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We have got to improve our catching.
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We have got to improve our catching.
I think Root just did that.
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This game is gone.
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Why bother playing tests at Headingly
They never sell out like Trent Bridge, Edgbaston and Lords
I know it's a bit cold but there's a full days test Cricket on offer up there today for a few quid,
Yorkshire cricket lovers my arse
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Why bother playing tests at Headingly
They never sell out like Trent Bridge, Edgbaston and Lords
I know it's a bit cold but there's a full days test Cricket on offer up there today for a few quid,
Yorkshire cricket lovers my arse
Chris Jameson over to you!!!!
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Our inability to bowl at tailenders is a real worry. Broad was atrocious.
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This game is gone and it's down to two things from our perspective. Firstly a classically English shambolic collapse when we were in a good position and secondly allowing the tail to do serious damage. NZ played well, but we gave them this position.
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Absolute bollocks bowling this morning. Why do we give tailenders width to play with?
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If England are still batting in the final session tomorrow they should be pretty close to getting these runs
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Very windy here and looks like rain about to hit.
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If England are still batting in the final session tomorrow they should be pretty close to getting these runs
Yes wouldn't count England out just yet. Big ask, but if we end play 250 or over with only 3 or 4 wickets down, we could still be in with a chance tomorrow.
On another note, it always says so and so will be chasing a world record fourth innings total to win the game. It makes it sounds nigh on impossible but I always find that a bit misleading, as that is only winning totals and it obviously discounts any fourth innings that have ended in draws and defeats.
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We've made a good start, but I suspect it'll be the normal England start well and it looks promising but then we blow up. As an aside though it's a very gettable target given the state of the pitch and how long is left in the game, so completely agree Tom.
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Why bother playing tests at Headingly
They never sell out like Trent Bridge, Edgbaston and Lords
I know it's a bit cold but there's a full days test Cricket on offer up there today for a few quid,
Yorkshire cricket lovers my arse
Chris Jameson over to you!!!!
It's not half term for one, the weather forecast got it spot on and I daren't respond any further after what I read on the Cup Final thread or he'll set his son on me!
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Given up on the cricket. Cold and wet and doubt there will be any more play today .
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Why bother playing tests at Headingly
They never sell out like Trent Bridge, Edgbaston and Lords
I know it's a bit cold but there's a full days test Cricket on offer up there today for a few quid,
Yorkshire cricket lovers my arse
Not to mention England have got a pretty poor recent record there.
We do love shooting ourselves in the foot though.
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After today's lost play there's no way that England will go for the win now
What's the forecast for tomorrow in the Northern wastelands?
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Windy, cold and the odd shower. Typical summer's day up here in other words, it's a fiver and kids free but I won't be bothering, I was frozen today and don't think I saw the ball once today after it had pitched.
It's Headingley by the way john.
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This game is gone and it's down to two things from our perspective. Firstly a classically English shambolic collapse when we were in a good position and secondly allowing the tail to do serious damage. NZ played well, but we gave them this position.
Again, Cook's captaincy played a part in that. He just lets things drift without making any real changes or offering different ideas.
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I hope I'm wrong, but if we let NZ bowl at us and put no pressure back on them I think they'll knock us over.
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That was just horrific from Ballance. He's looked all at sea in this series. He shouldn't be anywhere near the one day side. He needs to spend as much time in the nets and in 4 day cricket as physically possible before the ashes.
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Looks like we'll need some rain
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That's practically game over. Gutless from Ballance and Bell this morning. At least Lyth got a decent ball.
Looking like another defeat at Headingley. Why the fuck do we play there?
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Are you fucking kidding me? Bell and Root should be fucking ashamed of those shots
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Extraordinarily brain dead batting. Balance is just a gift wicket in waiting for Starc or Johnson, completely stupid shot selection from Bell and Root.
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Shambolically bad and if we lose it'll be fully deserved. Root has had a terrible Test match, but I'll forgive that as he's played excellently before this game. Ballance is looking poor at the moment. Bell's place should be seriously under threat now, he's been a complete liability with the bat and in the field recently. With Taylor, Vince etc waiting in the wings there must be serious question marks over his position.
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On TMS after lunch they mentioned that dark clouds are building. Let's hope they're full of rain and arrive soon.
A sorry state of affairs. It seems a while since the good old English weather saved us in a test. It used to be a regular occurrence. Pray to the rain gods Cricket fans!
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so Chris where's the shitty Yorkshire weather when you need it ?
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so Chris where's the shitty Yorkshire weather when you need it ?
Did the best it could yesterday. It's bloody cold up here, need strong winds to blow me over, there's the odd drop of rain in Harrogate. Which reminds me I've left the washing out...
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so Chris where's the shitty Yorkshire weather when you need it ?
Did the best it could yesterday. It's bloody cold up here, need strong winds to blow me over, there's the odd drop of rain in Harrogate. Which reminds me I've left the washing out...
its been pissing down darn sarf for most of the day
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I really think that Bell's place should be under serious threat now. We can't have numbers 3 and 4 not getting any runs. Good knock from Cook so far.
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I really think that Bell's place should be under serious threat now. We can't have numbers 3 and 4 not getting any runs. Good knock from Cook so far.
I know that number 3/4 position is a real problem pity we haven't got anyone to just slot in there..........................oh
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Considering Boult and Southee are both excellent seamers, it's pretty pathetic that we're getting bowled out by mediocre spinners.
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That's probably the game. In some ways I'm glad this has happened. Firstly NZ don't deserve to lose this series. Secondly I don't want us assuming that because we played well at Lords all our problems are fixed. There are big question marks over Bell, Ballance(to a lesser extent), not having an experienced spinner and also our bowlers inability to adapt to a situation.
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That's probably the game. In some ways I'm glad this has happened. Firstly NZ don't deserve to lose this series. Secondly I don't want us assuming that because we played well at Lords all our problems are fixed. There are big question marks over Bell, Ballance(to a lesser extent), not having an experienced spinner and also our bowlers inability to adapt to a situation.
I disagree that there are less question marks over Ballance than Bell. Ballance seems unable to even watch the ball properly at the moment.
Neither of them should be in the ODI squad. Both have to play as much 4 day cricket from now till the ashes as possible. With the question marks over Bell, it's just a shame we don't have a ready made world class batsman who has over 20 test centuries available to slot straight into the team.
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It's hammering it down here, hope they are on the way to Headingley.
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Ian Bell has been a complete liability this series. But this won't be seen as the time to change things and the status quo will continue until we are 4-0 down in the Ashes.
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That was awful by Ali!
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So where is the rain in Leeds then?
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So where is the rain in Leeds then?
Harrogate.
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Terrible from Ali.
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That's probably the game. In some ways I'm glad this has happened. Firstly NZ don't deserve to lose this series. Secondly I don't want us assuming that because we played well at Lords all our problems are fixed. There are big question marks over Bell, Ballance(to a lesser extent), not having an experienced spinner and also our bowlers inability to adapt to a situation.
I disagree that there are less question marks over Ballance than Bell. Ballance seems unable to even watch the ball properly at the moment.
Neither of them should be in the ODI squad. Both have to play as much 4 day cricket from now till the ashes as possible. With the question marks over Bell, it's just a shame we don't have a ready made world class batsman who has over 20 test centuries available to slot straight into the team.
Ballance is struggling, but he was excellent last summer. Bell hasn't been great since the summer of 2013. He's got the odd score, but he's got out cheaply and poor on an awful lot of occasions. Bell should really be dropped, but Ballance deserves longer.
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Looking dark over Chris's Mother's
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So 44-0 to 157-7. That's the second catastophic collapse in this game from England. We just seem to be pathetically mentally weak.
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That's probably the game. In some ways I'm glad this has happened. Firstly NZ don't deserve to lose this series. Secondly I don't want us assuming that because we played well at Lords all our problems are fixed. There are big question marks over Bell, Ballance(to a lesser extent), not having an experienced spinner and also our bowlers inability to adapt to a situation.
I disagree that there are less question marks over Ballance than Bell. Ballance seems unable to even watch the ball properly at the moment.
Neither of them should be in the ODI squad. Both have to play as much 4 day cricket from now till the ashes as possible. With the question marks over Bell, it's just a shame we don't have a ready made world class batsman who has over 20 test centuries available to slot straight into the team.
Ballance is struggling, but he was excellent last summer. Bell hasn't been great since the summer of 2013. He's got the odd score, but he's got out cheaply and poor on an awful lot of occasions. Bell should really be dropped, but Ballance deserves longer.
Bell dropped for who though? The only middle order batsman in the country ready to come into the side and face the likes of Johnson, Starc and Harris is Pietersen.
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I don't know how you can judge that without giving them a chance. At the moment Bell doesn't look like he's going to get a run, so it doesn't matter who you replace him with. But a couple of names who could are Taylor or Vince.
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See I'm still convinced that Moeen has the skills to bowl, but he is really short of confidence at the moment, which isn't helped by Cook. If I were England I'd rest him for the ODIs and I'd let him go back to county cricket in order to get a lot of overs under his belt before the Ashes. When he's confident he's a real threat, but that's been eroded at the moment.
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I don't know how you can judge that without giving them a chance. At the moment Bell doesn't look like he's going to get a run, so it doesn't matter who you replace him with. But a couple of names who could are Taylor or Vince.
It's a different kettle of fish making your test debut against the likes of Sri Lanka, West Indies etc compared to Australia. I agree that if Bell were to not make runs for Warwickshire in the gap between the series then we could look at dropping him. However of the two you mention, Taylor's form has been nowhere near good enough in first class cricket to warrant selection over Bell, and neither has Vince's.
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A quick glance at the championship fixtures shows that Bell has just two potential 4-day fixtures to play in before the first Ashes test and Ali has three. I think Ali will be in the one day squad but Bell won't be.
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See I'm still convinced that Moeen has the skills to bowl, but he is really short of confidence at the moment, which isn't helped by Cook. If I were England I'd rest him for the ODIs and I'd let him go back to county cricket in order to get a lot of overs under his belt before the Ashes. When he's confident he's a real threat, but that's been eroded at the moment.
I'm far more worried about his batting at the moment.
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Williamson has a great wrong un it's called a chuck.
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See I'm still convinced that Moeen has the skills to bowl, but he is really short of confidence at the moment, which isn't helped by Cook. If I were England I'd rest him for the ODIs and I'd let him go back to county cricket in order to get a lot of overs under his belt before the Ashes. When he's confident he's a real threat, but that's been eroded at the moment.
I'm far more worried about his batting at the moment.
I wouldn't be. For a start he's batting at 8 at the moment. Secondly he's had a poor match, but before this he had two 50s and a 40 in his last 5 innings. That's hardly terrible.
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Taylor has a first class average of 47 with 18 first class centuries. Even if he hasn't had the best start to the year, he was brilliant last year and certainly deserves a chance.
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They've had numerous opportunity to pick the likes of Taylor, Hales and Rashid but haven't selected them. Why? Are they perceived as not good enough?
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Think the best we can hope for now is a draw.
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Said the main with his tongue firmly in cheek!
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Buttler is beginning to bat with some real maturity. He's not all bish bash bosh after all. I do have concerns about his keeping though.
Edit. There's the poster's version of the commentator's curse.......out LBW without playing a shot.
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What a shame there are only two Test matches, why not have a proper series instead of yet another pointless One Day series?
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So we have number 3 and 4 playing terribly poor. Slip catching is very shoddy. The spinner doesn't look very good. Anderson isn't penetrative and the bowling at the lower order is giving too many freebies. Lyth the jury is out and obviously needs more time.
On the plus Stokes and Cook have batted well and Wood looks like he has some potential.
All in all a test series that has posed more questions than provided answers.
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Glad to see Ali is being rested. He needs overs in county cricket.
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What a shame there are only two Test matches, why not have a proper series instead of yet another pointless One Day series?
Arrogance from our side not regarding Kiwis as genuine test match opponents. It's all about Australia.
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What a shame there are only two Test matches, why not have a proper series instead of yet another pointless One Day series?
I agree, these are two well matched sides and a longer series had the potential to be a belter.
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England ODI squad to face New Zealand: Eoin Morgan (Middlesex, capt), Sam Billings (Kent, wk), Jos Buttler (Lancashire, wk), Steven Finn (Middlesex), Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire), Chris Jordan (Sussex), Liam Plunkett (Yorkshire), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Ben Stokes (Durham), James Taylor (Nottinghamshire), David Willey (Northants), Mark Wood (Durham).
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So we have number 3 and 4 playing terribly poor. Slip catching is very shoddy. The spinner doesn't look very good. Anderson isn't penetrative and the bowling at the lower order is giving too many freebies. Lyth the jury is out and obviously needs more time.
On the plus Stokes and Cook have batted well and Wood looks like he has some potential.
All in all a test series that has posed more questions than provided answers.
I suggested keeping Jordan in the side purely because he has the best hands in English cricket and a few said you can't pick him for his fielding, I don't disagree with that but he could well have been the difference for us in this test. Given his batting can also be very good (for a low order player) I think we can accept his slightly hit and miss bowling (which i think has a lot of potential anyway) if it means we take the chances the other bowlers create.
From that ODI squad who opens with Hales there? Roy, Taylor and Root are all good top order batsmen but I'm not sure any of them is right to open internationally at this point. Does that mean they might be looking at Buttler to be an opener rather than a finisher? He's matured a lot playing in tests and I think he could be a very good fit. With Stokes, Jordan and Rashid in the bowling setup we have some potential finishers anyway and giving Buttler a chance to bart for more than 10 overs without worrying about the number of wickets we've lost might help push or scores into the 350+ realms that are required now.
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The non-selection of Ballance, Bell & Ali is a positive step, allowing them to concentrate on red ball cricket.
The problems that Ballance & Bell face can be fixed with time in the middle and time in the nets. The spin issue is of greater concern. I don't think Ali is anywhere near where we would need him to be at the start of an Ashes series. Their spinner isn't all that but he's better than we have. The Aussies will target Ali and knock him out of the attack, particularly as Cook doesn't have a great deal of confidence in him.
If Ali isn't the answer and Rashid is not selected then I'd consider picking a 5th seamer and let Root and Balance share fill-in duties. We also must improve our catching. As it stands, we have to create 13 or 14 chances to take 10 wickets. That is unacceptable at test level. Maybe Jordan as a 5th seamer, reasonable lower middle-order bat and excellent slip fielder is the answer.
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Root and Ballance wouldn't be up to covering the spinner role. Ali or Rashid have to play.
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So we have number 3 and 4 playing terribly poor. Slip catching is very shoddy. The spinner doesn't look very good. Anderson isn't penetrative and the bowling at the lower order is giving too many freebies. Lyth the jury is out and obviously needs more time.
On the plus Stokes and Cook have batted well and Wood looks like he has some potential.
All in all a test series that has posed more questions than provided answers.
I'd add that, though Wood looks promising, and Stokes' bowling is a plus, we don't have a bowler who can block up one end if the going gets tough. They all seem ot bleed runs. We need Hoggard back!
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Or Tom Cartwright.
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So we have number 3 and 4 playing terribly poor. Slip catching is very shoddy. The spinner doesn't look very good. Anderson isn't penetrative and the bowling at the lower order is giving too many freebies. Lyth the jury is out and obviously needs more time.
On the plus Stokes and Cook have batted well and Wood looks like he has some potential.
All in all a test series that has posed more questions than provided answers.
I'd add that, though Wood looks promising, and Stokes' bowling is a plus, we don't have a bowler who can block up one end if the going gets tough. They all seem ot bleed runs. We need Hoggard back!
I agree completely, if they can do it for 12-15 over stretches then all the better because then we have a much easier time rotating at the other end and keeping all the wicket takers fresh.
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So we have number 3 and 4 playing terribly poor. Slip catching is very shoddy. The spinner doesn't look very good. Anderson isn't penetrative and the bowling at the lower order is giving too many freebies. Lyth the jury is out and obviously needs more time.
On the plus Stokes and Cook have batted well and Wood looks like he has some potential.
All in all a test series that has posed more questions than provided answers.
I'd add that, though Wood looks promising, and Stokes' bowling is a plus, we don't have a bowler who can block up one end if the going gets tough. They all seem ot bleed runs. We need Hoggard back!
I agree completely, if they can do it for 12-15 over stretches then all the better because then we have a much easier time rotating at the other end and keeping all the wicket takers fresh.
I think Bresnan is the closest we have to Hoggard who was a vastly underrated player.
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So we have number 3 and 4 playing terribly poor. Slip catching is very shoddy. The spinner doesn't look very good. Anderson isn't penetrative and the bowling at the lower order is giving too many freebies. Lyth the jury is out and obviously needs more time.
On the plus Stokes and Cook have batted well and Wood looks like he has some potential.
All in all a test series that has posed more questions than provided answers.
From that ODI squad who opens with Hales there? Roy, Taylor and Root are all good top order batsmen but I'm not sure any of them is right to open internationally at this point. Does that mean they might be looking at Buttler to be an opener rather than a finisher? He's matured a lot playing in tests and I think he could be a very good fit. With Stokes, Jordan and Rashid in the bowling setup we have some potential finishers anyway and giving Buttler a chance to bart for more than 10 overs without worrying about the number of wickets we've lost might help push or scores into the 350+ realms that are required now.
Team in the abandoned game against Ireland was:
Alex Hales
Jason Roy
James Taylor (C)
James Vince
Zafar Ansari
Jonathan Bairstow (W)
Adil Rashid
Timothy Bresnan
David Willey
Mark Wood
Steven Finn
Root, Morgan, Buttler and Stokes in for Vince, Ansari, Bairstow and Bresnan? Also Jordan maybe in for Willey?
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Australia giving the West Indies a bit of a seeing-to in the first Test: 137-8.
With a bit of luck Johnson and Starc will both get strained egos and be ruled out for the Summer (though Hazlewood's taken three of those wickets).
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Villa fan & Somerset keeper Craig Kieswetter is retiring due to an eye injury sustained last season. He was the keeper/opener when England won the world 20 over slog-fest in 2010.
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Looks like the lower order will be scoring the bulk of the runs again for us come Ashes time, given our shaky middle order and you lot apparently not being too good at bowling to tailenders.
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Villa fan & Somerset keeper Craig Kieswetter is retiring due to an eye injury sustained last season. He was the keeper/opener when England won the world 20 over slog-fest in 2010.
Real shame, especially as it was the result of such a freak incident. Wish him well for the future.
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Sad news, I always like Kies. Good luck in the future.
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Good to see Moeen get some runs in the Twenty20 that'll do his confidence the world of good.
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A very left-field idea by Strauss to include Dermot Reeve in an advisory role ahead of the ODI series against the Kiwis.
I would think that this is the role that they had in mind for KP but they handled it in such a ham-fisted way.
Reeve was a wonderful limited-overs player and an inspirational captain. If his inclusion is a sign of how Strauss wants things (or maybe the new coach) then I'm all for it.
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I think the squad looks exciting. Although I would have liked to see Willey involved, as he looks to have a lot about him.
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Really really harsh on Taylor to miss out. The England hierachy just don't seem to like him. Happy to see Roy, Billings and Rashid get a go though.
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Really really harsh on Taylor to miss out. The England hierachy just don't seem to like him. Happy to see Roy, Billings and Rashid get a go though.
Agree on Taylor and about the inclusion of the other three in particular. I would have thought the inclusion of Billings would mean Buttler would relinquish the gloves and play solely as a batsman, but that doesn't seem to be the case. They have got to stick with this group and approach even if things don't go well today.
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Really really harsh on Taylor to miss out. The England hierachy just don't seem to like him. Happy to see Roy, Billings and Rashid get a go though.
I switched on TMS to hear them discussing a player with a side strain missing out. That's either Taylor, Wood or Willey so a 1 in 3 chance that he's injured.
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Really really harsh on Taylor to miss out. The England hierachy just don't seem to like him. Happy to see Roy, Billings and Rashid get a go though.
I switched on TMS to hear them discussing a player with a side strain missing out. That's either Taylor, Wood or Willey so a 1 in 3 chance that he's injured.
Dominic Cork was speaking on Talksport this morning and said he expected Taylor to miss out, so probably not him. Guessing it was Wood, with Plunkett coming in.
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Jason Roy out to his first ball in international cricket......full and wide sliced to point.
Happy new limited overs era.
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Bit annoying that Roy is out. But they can't just discard him for a failure these players need to be given a chance. I do think Taylor is treated awfully though. Willey should play, because that left arm angle is a real plus.
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Bloody hell the knives are out for Roy already. Give the guy a chance. One failure doesn't make a bad player.
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Pity Hales is gone, but we are playing the right way on a good pitch. This series is about learning how to play the ODI game properly.
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Bloody hell the knives are out for Roy already. Give the guy a chance. One failure doesn't make a bad player.
Totally agree Paul and that is part of the problem. That kind of attitude creates the environment of fear that has held us back for so long now. If any new player coming in fears failing as they know they will get hammered, they won't play their natural game.
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Joe Root looks in absolutely glorious touch
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They need to play an aggressive game, especially on a pitch like this. It didn't come off for Roy and Hales started well, but we need to persevere.
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Bloody hell the knives are out for Roy already. Give the guy a chance. One failure doesn't make a bad player.
Totally agree Paul and that is part of the problem. That kind of attitude creates the environment of fear that has held us back for so long now. If any new player coming in fears failing as they know they will get hammered, they won't play their natural game.
They'd best avoid reading a lot of this thread in that case!
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Excellent from Root and Morgan.
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I'm not sure why they put Roy as opener, I don't watch much county cricket bu what I've seen of him he's always come in lower down but as I've said before, I'd be looking to try Buttler at the top anyway. Nice to see Root makin gthe most of his good form and pushing the score along. As I've said on here before, if you bat like this in the first 20 overs you see the fielding team start to make mistakes and miss chances because they're switched to a more defensive mindset and they're thinking about the chase to come rather than trying to get wickets. It's still very early in this game but seeing us already well over 100% strike rate shows that they're starting to think about it.
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Morgan is thriving from playing up the order. I've always thought he should bat 4. We're playing well here.
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Bloody hell the knives are out for Roy already. Give the guy a chance. One failure doesn't make a bad player.
Totally agree Paul and that is part of the problem. That kind of attitude creates the environment of fear that has held us back for so long now. If any new player coming in fears failing as they know they will get hammered, they won't play their natural game.
They'd best avoid reading a lot of this thread in that case!
Moeen in particular, it's getting frustrating having to defend his inclusion in the test side every time he has a few overs without a wicket or scores less than 50.
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This is proper one day international cricket. Good wicket, none of this dabbing spin about for singles and getting bogged down. Lovely to watch.
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Brilliant from Root and
Bloody hell the knives are out for Roy already. Give the guy a chance. One failure doesn't make a bad player.
Totally agree Paul and that is part of the problem. That kind of attitude creates the environment of fear that has held us back for so long now. If any new player coming in fears failing as they know they will get hammered, they won't play their natural game.
They'd best avoid reading a lot of this thread in that case!
Moeen in particular, it's getting frustrating having to defend his inclusion in the test side every time he has a few overs without a wicket or scores less than 50.
Indeed especially as people over look that he had about 5 or 6 chances dropped off his bowling over the last two Tests.
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Excellent from Root and Morgan. Shame they've both gone, it's important we continue the momentum.
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Lost our way a bit here. Important Buttler sees us home.
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Excellent from Root and Morgan. Shame they've both gone, it's important we continue the momentum.
Those two going brought Buttler and Stokes to the wicket a bit too early. Ideally we want them coming in about now.
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I'm beginning to wonder if the two Pauls can go a day without mentioning Moeen Ali ;)
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If he's not going to keep wicket, I'm struggling to see the reasoning behind the selection of Billings. It would be understandable if he has been brought in to keep and free up Buttler, but if tthat isn't the case, I find it a little strange. Surely we would have been better beeffing up the batting order with Taylor?
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Maybe they thought he would beef up the batting order, his record with the bat isn't terrible.
The key here is we've got to 40overs with an effective target already set (Cook would've been happy with this after 50) so now the last 10 overs can be used to move that from passable to genuinely challenging, 360-370 is on the cards here so long as we don't lose a cluster of wickets. If one of these 2 does go Jordan is a finisher and plunkett can flash a few around the ground as well.
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This is some innings. England have finally arrived in ODI cricket, win or lose.
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Ton up for Jos Buttler. 103 off 66balls, with 11 fours and 3 sixes . SR 156.06.
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What a brilliant century that is, I firmly believe Buttler will be the top batsman in the world before long, he makes it look so easy.
ODI and T20 cricket is all about scoring pressure, McCullum there has dropped a sitter because his mind is racing worrying about the chase, even for a fantastic ODI side like NZ this is going to be a very tough chase.
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This is stunning.
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What a most un-England performance with the bat.
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JC Buttler c Henry b McClenaghan 129 (77b 13x4 5x6) SR: 167.53
Brilliant knock.
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Highest ever one day score.....
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Gutted to see Buttler go, that's the most exciting thing I've seen from an England player for years.
Highest ever ODI score by England, how frustrating is it to hear that a couple of months after we made ourselves look like a bunch of mugs in the world cup, hopefully the people responsible will now realise how wrong they were in their approach, Cook amongst them, the talent was there.
and there's 400.
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England scored 408/9!
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I never thought I'd see England score 400 in an ODI.
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so 409 as the target, set by England, I think I need a drink.
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408-9, wait a stunning performance.
If we don't defend that then we really have some serious problems. Against this Kiwi batting line up they certainly will have their work cut out.
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What an innings Buttler. The most style and panache I think I've seen since Pietersen pulverised the Aussies on the last day of the last test when we reclaimed the Ashes.
Who would have thought that by using players primed for one dayers instead of the test match regulars we'd actually look good...
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Wow! Just came in and seen the score!
Now watch NZ knock them off with 20-odd balls to spare...
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Wow! Just came in and seen the score!
Now watch NZ knock them off with 20-odd balls to spare...
If they do then fair play, it's still the best ODI batting performance I've ever seen from England.
That said the key now is to use the buffer that such a big target gives us and actually look to take wickets rather than trying to contain as we often do.
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I'm naturally biased but as well as Buttler it's got to be said Rashid played a fantastic innings too, the pair of them rescued England from what could have been a spectacular collapse.
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Finn is bowling well. Thing is whether England win or lose under previous regimes we would have scored 300-320 today and have been happy with that. This is an important day for English cricket.
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I'm naturally biased but as well as Buttler it's got to be said Rashid played a fantastic innings too, the pair of them rescued England from what could have been a spectacular collapse.
Yep he did. Buttler, Root, Morgan and Rashid were all excellent.
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Jonathon Trott was very good on TMS, be happy to see him replace Swann and Vaughan (or even better, both) in the future.
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Really big wicket that one, Taylor was just starting to try to make a dent in the target, it's looking like a too big an ask for them now, it will need a stunning bit of batting from someone now.
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Jonathon Trott was very good on TMS, be happy to see him replace Swann and Vaughan (or even better, both) in the future.
I quite like Vaughan even if he's got a bit of an ego.
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I'm glad to see Finn bowling well again.
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Excellent performance. For once wickets falling didn't phase the batsmen and make them go into their shell. Thought Rashid played a splendid innings to make sure Buttler could free his arms.
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Oh, and I loved Plunkett's little cameo at the end, that really pisses off a bowler when a tail-ender plonks you into the stands twice in the last over!
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Rashid on a hat-trick.........but will have to wait because that was the last ball of the over!
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Rashid has a lovely little googly.
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Always loved watching Rashid bowl, he's a proper all rounder as well as he's also a really good fielder. Enjoyed the cricket since I got home from work, watched the England innings whilst listening to Yorkshire get a win.
Glad the football season is well and truly over!
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It's good to banish football.
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Superb. I'm going on Sunday hoping for more of the same.
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Without going overboard, that was a dominant performance by England.
When they slumped to 202-6 with 20 overs to go I expected them to fold. To reach 408-9 is a remarkable achievement. Then to bowl with discipline and invention to dismiss the Kiwis with a shade under 19 overs to spare was even more remarkable.
If Rashid carries this form on then Ali will be under pressure for the Ashes.
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Wow! Just came in and seen the score!
Now watch NZ knock them off with 20-odd balls to spare...
If they do then fair play, it's still the best ODI batting performance I've ever seen from England.
That said the key now is to use the buffer that such a big target gives us and actually look to take wickets rather than trying to contain as we often do.
Very good point and I thought that was definitely the case. Finn and Rashid in particular enjoyed the luxury of not having to worry about giving away boundaries and both bowled very well.
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Wow! Just came in and seen the score!
Now watch NZ knock them off with 20-odd balls to spare...
If they do then fair play, it's still the best ODI batting performance I've ever seen from England.
That said the key now is to use the buffer that such a big target gives us and actually look to take wickets rather than trying to contain as we often do.
Very good point and I thought that was definitely the case. Finn and Rashid in particular enjoyed the luxury of not having to worry about giving away boundaries and both bowled very well.
Absolutely, immense credit to Morgan for really backing the bowler and putting catcher in all through, easy to do when you've got a big lead but it's totally at odds with everything England have been for years.
Agree with the comments about Rashid, great with the bat and ball and in many games his performance would be motm but Buttler really did something special today.
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Sad to see that Monty is taking an indefinite break from the gams:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cricket-2015/content/story/885847.html
Post Ashley Giles and pre Graeme Swann he really did seem to be the best English spinner since Underwood.
Good luck fella, I hope you can sort your troubles out.
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Good luck Monty.
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Good luck Monty.
Yep, good luck Monty. His enthusiasm for the game won him many fans around the world and I hope that this break helps him rediscover that.
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I know you never change a winning team but I would definately swop Willey for Plunkett
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I know you never change a winning team but I would definately swop Willey for Plunkett
Willey has been released by England for tomorrows game so he can play for Northants tonight in T20 v Derbyshire
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Matt Prior has announced his retirement from First Class cricket
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Prior was an excellent player for us.
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Aussies 16-2 after being put in by Windies at Sabina Park of a suspiciously green looking wicket.
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Aussies moved on to 89-2 but Jerome Taylor has bowled superbly this morning his figures are:
6 6 0 2
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Miles at Gloucestershire is one to keep an eye on. He has started the season superbly. The Aussie, Klinger has done alright on his reintroduction as well....
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Should have been 23-3 but Clarke was recalled after Roach no balled. Grrr.
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That Aussie top order is vulnerable. We've just got to learn how to bowl at the tail.
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Stop trying to stick every other ball up their nose?
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Yep that'd help. We are chronicly bad at bowling at the tail. I hope Wood might help with that.
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That Aussie top order isvulnerable. We've just got to learn how to bowl at the tail.
I think so as well Paul, especially against a swinging ball. In regards to bowling at the tail, interesting to hear a discussion on TMS earlier in the week about the merits of having a leg spinner with a few variations bowling at the tail. The thinking was that tail enders struggle to pick the different deliveries, especially if they are trying to attack.
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Same team for England, with Finn and Jordan opening the bowling. Not sure Jordan is an opening bowler at international level (more of a change bowler), but lets's see how it goes.
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Jordan getting smashed.
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Jordan getting smashed.
The dangers of regular drink breaks.
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Could be in a tricky spot here.
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Could be in a tricky spot here.
Yep, looks like we are going to be chasing a big total here.
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Jordan's bowling is being murdered today.
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6 overs left, they should comfortably pass our total from Edgbaston.
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6 overs left, they should comfortably pass our total from Edgbaston.
Yep and I would think that will be the game.
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Shame Roy's gone, but they've done their job.
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Good start to the chase, 81-0 after 12, and then Roy picks out the catcher, still a decent position though, need Hales to hang around for a while, if he can get 100+ and then we get fireworks from the middle order this could be pretty close, If Root plays like he did last game these pair could push us along nicely.
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We did well to contain NZ to under 400. It was a fabulous knock by Taylor and he was well supported by his team mates.
We've made a good start here and built a solid platform. This could be very interesting.
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I take full responsibility for this mini collapse.
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That's poor we've got to stop losing set batsmen. I don't mind whether we win or lose, just want to see us play well. I'm going on Sunday so want a good game.
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That's poor we've got to stop losing set batsmen. I don't mind whether we win or lose, just want to see us play well. I'm going on Sunday so want a good game.
Well the way that the test series went and judging by one and a bit ODI's so far, I think you'll be OK.
Need these two to stick around now. Time for a captain's innings Eoin.
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There was an odd shot of the inside of the Sky commentary box a few minutes ago. What was Mikey doing with the Dettol cleansing wipes? Does he have OCD? Is Bumble a dirty minger? Does Lord Gower leave skin flakes all over the mic? I demand answers!
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There's some real positive intent in our batting that I really like. OK we may fall short and in losing we will learn lessons. We'll win as many games as we lose whilst we learn/plan for the future.
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Morgan is playing beautifully
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Morgan is well and truly back.
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Test here for young Billings.
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Who are this team in blue and what have they done with the England cricket team?
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The loss of Morgan is a huge blow. Wonderful innings though.
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Nearly a good chase but we're losing people just when we need them to push on and score big, Hales, Buttler and Morgan all did the same, after looking in control. Nice to see the intent to chase this and at least make a game of things. Jordan looking unfit to bat, that's a big blow because he can score big.
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It looks like the weather will play a part which is a real shame.
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I'm not sure on Billings at 7, seems low for a player who is solely in for his batting.
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I'm not sure on Billings at 7, seems low for a player who is solely in for his batting.
I wouldn't push him up the order at the expense of a better batsman so he'd need to make way to a two-discipline player.
Potential replacements/options would include Rashid moving up and maybe a fit Woakes coming in at 8 or 9 and maybe Broad.
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Play to restart at 9.10pm
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The Sky Sports We Didn't Start the Fire Ashes promo is remarkably good.
http://www1.skysports.com/cricket/news/12340/9876081/the-ashes-sky-sports-pundits-rework-we-didnt-start-the-fire
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Target now 34 off 13 D/L
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Harsh D/L target given the game situation, went from a tough chase to a near impossible one.
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Great game, the ridiculous 3 a ball duckworth lewis partially spoils what would have been a grandstand finish.
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Super game and well done NZ and England. More of the same Sunday please. Brilliant advert for the game.
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Great cricket by NZ after the restart. The catch to dismiss Rashid was excellent. A good win for them.
I think if Plunkett and Rashid had stuck around we'd have edged it. That said it was a great game with so many positives from an England perspective.
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The problem i have Is with the arbituary cut off time. Not one person in the Oval would have minded staying 20 minutes longer. Cricket Is still massively out of touch
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The problem i have Is with the arbituary cut off time. Not one person in the Oval would have minded staying 20 minutes longer. Cricket Is still massively out of touch
Exactly, the crowd went from a game which was touch and go to a two over slog that needed 35 scoring from it, not gonna happen, no point to coming back on really.
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I want to know who that bunch of imposters masquerading as the England one day team are? For the good of the game all that big hitting and risk taking must stop now.
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I'm not sure on Billings at 7, seems low for a player who is solely in for his batting.
I wouldn't push him up the order at the expense of a better batsman so he'd need to make way to a two-discipline player.
Potential replacements/options would include Rashid moving up and maybe a fit Woakes coming in at 8 or 9 and maybe Broad.
I'd have Willey in the team. He's a very good left arm bowler and a pretty destructive bat.
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Am surprised Willey is not in the team, would be a different option and is a good end of innings batsmen. That said, great to see England giving it a go
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It's brilliantly refreshing and I've got no complaints, we're playing the game the right way. Morgan is completely secure as captain as well now, his form is completely back.
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It is amazing the massive change, and great to see. I am an old git who remembers Warwickshire winning the old john player league even though I am not a massive cricket fan. Great to see the players showing fight instead of just giving in. Broad should come into this team as well hopefully
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Don't think Broad should come in. I think Willey should come in. Broad should just be a Test cricketer now, his injury problems mean he has to be managed.
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Wonderful game to watch again. loving the new England.
The authorities need to sort out cut off times in these days of floodlights, I doubt there was a sane person there who didn't want to see England chase that total down properly without D/L.
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Totally agree, obviously you cant stay all night, but that D/L thing is awful. No reason why they could not have finished that game and most people stayed for it and would have stayed for a proper end to the game
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I feel for the umpires but surely in this case a simple get together of the captains would have given us a proper game? I know McCullum would have gone for it, he had most to lose but he loves the game for what it is.
As it was, those who stayed where ultimately short changed, England had no chance of 13 an over after a long break. Duckworth Lewis is very good but needs tweaking.
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DL does need tweaking now that teams approach 50 over cricket in a completely different way.
This series, however, and the Test series are a breath of fresh air. New Zealand have bought the best and most ambitious side of England. It's thoroughly enjoyable. It also
shows that English fans won't slaughter the team if they lose. Provided they progress and entertain they'll always be supported.
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With floodlights on I really don't understand why the game couldn't have been completed, it would only be another 20 minutes maximum. Cricket doesn't help itself sometimes.
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Don't think Broad should come in. I think Willey should come in. Broad should just be a Test cricketer now, his injury problems mean he has to be managed.
Well Willey will be on for Jordan tomorrow anyway I'd think, he looked really uncomfortable when he came out to bat and intercostals are notoriously slow to recover. Billings is an interesting one, he looked unprepared to me, I think he might not be ready for this level yet.
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Jordan and Plunkett out of the series
One of the Overton brothers @ Somerset called up to replace Jordan and a replacement for Plunkett will be named on Sunday
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After a decent start we lose 2 quick wkts, both openers gone 34-2 8.3
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Root and Morgan getting England moving now 106-2 off 18
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But yet again England haven't just gone into their shell after a couple of wickets like they always used to.
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Morgan looks like he's just itching to cut loose, next few overs could be fun.
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Hard to be too critical, because the approach is correct.
Unfortunately this poor end means we are well below par.
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Hell of a collapse at the end.
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Yep. Probably means we are now 40 runs short of par. With a really inexperienced attack, I just can't see us holding NZ.
I think where they should have changed approach was at the fall of the 7th wicket. They probably should have been content knocking it around and getting 345
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Still the first time we've scored 300+ in 3 consecutive matches.
Lets not be too critical
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Lovely delivery to get Guptill, hard to defend against that.
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I was at the game today and have a few observations -
Our innings went a bit wrong at the end, but we're definitely on the right path. I think the pitch was pretty tough to get in on.
Morgan really is back and Stokes is really starting to gain a sense of responsibility.
Willey seems quicker in person than on the speed gun. I think he is potentially a very good player.
Williamson's hundred in particular was just brilliant.
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I was at the game today and have a few observations -
Our innings went a bit wrong at the end, but we're definitely on the right path. I think the pitch was pretty tough to get in on.
Morgan really is back and Stokes is really starting to gain a sense of responsibility.
Willey seems quicker in person than on the speed gun. I think he is potentially a very good player.
Williamson's hundred in particular was just brilliant.
Glad you saw a good day's cricket mate and that stadium looks great now. It's a very fine balance, but I do think Stokes should have been a little more responsible in bat given the state of the game. It is difficult to criticise, but had he stuck around for a few more overs, we may have got runs which could have proved decisive. As it was, with Jordan and Plunkett out, the weakened tail were left exposed and we left a few overs on the table. We still look short in the bowling department.
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I was at the game today and have a few observations -
Our innings went a bit wrong at the end, but we're definitely on the right path. I think the pitch was pretty tough to get in on.
Morgan really is back and Stokes is really starting to gain a sense of responsibility.
Willey seems quicker in person than on the speed gun. I think he is potentially a very good player.
Williamson's hundred in particular was just brilliant.
Glad you saw a good day's cricket mate and that stadium looks great now. It's a very fine balance, but I do think Stokes should have been a little more responsible in bat given the state of the game. It is difficult to criticise, but had he stuck around for a few more overs, we may have got runs which could have proved decisive. As it was, with Jordan and Plunkett out, the weakened tail were left exposed and we left a few overs on the table. We still look short in the bowling department.
Losing Rashid first ball was the hammer blow for me, if he'd got the runs he did in the first 2 matches we'd have been defending 340-350 and the pressure on the bowlers is much less.
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I was at the game today and have a few observations -
Our innings went a bit wrong at the end, but we're definitely on the right path. I think the pitch was pretty tough to get in on.
Morgan really is back and Stokes is really starting to gain a sense of responsibility.
Willey seems quicker in person than on the speed gun. I think he is potentially a very good player.
Williamson's hundred in particular was just brilliant.
Glad you saw a good day's cricket mate and that stadium looks great now. It's a very fine balance, but I do think Stokes should have been a little more responsible in bat given the state of the game. It is difficult to criticise, but had he stuck around for a few more overs, we may have got runs which could have proved decisive. As it was, with Jordan and Plunkett out, the weakened tail were left exposed and we left a few overs on the table. We still look short in the bowling department.
Losing Rashid first ball was the hammer blow for me, if he'd got the runs he did in the first 2 matches we'd have been defending 340-350 and the pressure on the bowlers is much less.
Agree Paul and it was a disppointing dismissal, but we can't be reliant on a number 8 scoring runs every time. I think the team is taking shape nicely, but we are still probably short of another all-rounder.
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Not really Rashid is an all rounder (as is Willey). Runs from the lower order aren't essential to make a decent target, which we did yesterday, but they make the difference between needing things to go your way with the ball (which we didn't get with a couple of dropped catches and the LBW that was reviewed not being given on the field) instead of having the buffer that makes batsmen do something extra. I agree we can't expect him to get those runs every time but that was still the difference between a decent target and a genuinely competitive one. I won't fault Stokes because he did the job he was there to do, getting big runs in the latter part of the innings, I'd rather see batsmen playing their natural game and following their instincts than see them get bogged down and play well within themselves which we've seen doesn't work.
The player we want to see in that position more often than not is Buttler (given his place in the batting order) who has all the destructive power of Stokes but is technically a much better batsman and has quicker hands. Those last 2 mean that he can naturally switch to a more measured 'rotate the strike' game when needed without looking uncomfortable about it, and then he'll put the bad ones away. Losing him cheaply was a big blow.
Finally I'm not convinced by Roy, he's looked very good at county level but I'm not sure he's ready to be an international opener, he's the main one I'd be looking at options for right now but Billings also needs to step up a bit more as well. Both of them are very eager in the field which works in their favour but they really need runs now. I know 3 games isn't a great deal of time and I would give them both the rest of the series regardless but they need 1 big innings each to be sure of their places for the aussies.
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The other Overton has been called into ODI squad this morning.
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Not really Rashid is an all rounder (as is Willey). Runs from the lower order aren't essential to make a decent target, which we did yesterday, but they make the difference between needing things to go your way with the ball (which we didn't get with a couple of dropped catches and the LBW that was reviewed not being given on the field) instead of having the buffer that makes batsmen do something extra. I agree we can't expect him to get those runs every time but that was still the difference between a decent target and a genuinely competitive one. I won't fault Stokes because he did the job he was there to do, getting big runs in the latter part of the innings, I'd rather see batsmen playing their natural game and following their instincts than see them get bogged down and play well within themselves which we've seen doesn't work.
The player we want to see in that position more often than not is Buttler (given his place in the batting order) who has all the destructive power of Stokes but is technically a much better batsman and has quicker hands. Those last 2 mean that he can naturally switch to a more measured 'rotate the strike' game when needed without looking uncomfortable about it, and then he'll put the bad ones away. Losing him cheaply was a big blow.
Finally I'm not convinced by Roy, he's looked very good at county level but I'm not sure he's ready to be an international opener, he's the main one I'd be looking at options for right now but Billings also needs to step up a bit more as well. Both of them are very eager in the field which works in their favour but they really need runs now. I know 3 games isn't a great deal of time and I would give them both the rest of the series regardless but they need 1 big innings each to be sure of their places for the aussies.
I'm not 100% sure on Roy yet. I'm thinking he's more of a lower order batsman at the moment, so for me it would be him or Billings. I prefer Moeen as an ODI opener.
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Finally I'm not convinced by Roy, he's looked very good at county level but I'm not sure he's ready to be an international opener, he's the main one I'd be looking at options for right now but Billings also needs to step up a bit more as well. Both of them are very eager in the field which works in their favour but they really need runs now. I know 3 games isn't a great deal of time and I would give them both the rest of the series regardless but they need 1 big innings each to be sure of their places for the aussies.
Agree that both should be given the rest of the series, but that a change may be required for the series against the Aussies. If Roy was to be taken out the side, we could go for another young up and coming player (ie. Vince) or a more experienced stop gap option like Carberry. As for Billings, I wonder if Woakes could bat as high as seven on his return and offer that extra bowling option.
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I think Ali would probably be the choice to open instead of Roy. He's a more classy batsman who's had some success opening for England.
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I think Ali would probably be the choice to open instead of Roy. He's a more classy batsman who's had some success opening for England.
;)
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NZ won the toss and bowling first. Both sides unchanged.
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NZ won the toss and bowling first. Both sides unchanged.
BBC news fees says otherwise?
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I think Jamie Overton has more potential then his brother. He can bowl with real pace.
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Looks like we'll be chasing a score in excess of 350 again
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Maybe, but we're bowling pretty well at the moment.
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NZ won the toss and bowling first. Both sides unchanged.
BBC news fees says otherwise?
My mistake. Missed out the 'we're' before bowling!!
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Our catching really needs to improve. It might be 400+ at this rate.
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Poor drops from both Buttler and Root. Not good enough.
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How many yorkers have our bowlers attempted in this ODI series? Must be less than 5.
I know it's hard for inexperienced bowlers on flat pitches, but surely someone must have suggested a few yorkers at some point.
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How many yorkers have our bowlers attempted in this ODI series? Must be less than 5.
I know it's hard for inexperienced bowlers on flat pitches, but surely someone must have suggested a few yorkers at some point.
It's not just us, most bowlers seem to have abandoned them, mainly because if you get it wrong and throw a low full toss it's easy to go out of the ground, and if a batsman sees it coming and steps forward they can 'create' a full toss. Get them right and they're horrible to defend though (Malinga is the anomoly, he bowls lots of them and they account for a fair number of his wickets).
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Excellent bowking from Finn and Wood today. 350 is a realistic chase. Really encouraging to see Finn playing well again.
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Hales and Roy have started nicely
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Cracking stuff from Hales.
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Root and Morgan playing this beautifully at the moment (obviously that will be a curse!!)
Not taking many risks, but still scoring at an excellent rate.
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In a good position here, the innings from Hales was utterly brilliant, scoring that quickly at the top has made it comparatively easy for this pair who have looked comfortable and have just played nice flowing shots without ever chasing after anything. Morgan is back to his very best in this series and it's a massive plus. I wonder how long it will be before he's talked about in relation to the test side.
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Another brilliant game this. England scoring 300+ at will, the way others have been playing for a few years now.
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Can we not bother with all the unpleasantness that comes with Australia and just keep playing New Zealand? Cracking matches, brilliant cricket and all played in a wonderful spirit. Never seen so many players with smiles on their faces.
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Yup
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Root could be the best English batsman for a very very long time.
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Brilliant performance.
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Destruction. We would have gone over 400 again. Incredible to compare this to the ambling, bore-athon we produced at the world cup.
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We are hitting sixes as often as we used to hit fours.
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You do wonder though, with the pitches so run-friendly and the ball not swinging, we might as well just use bowling machines and see who can biff the ball further.
Still, mustn't complain, great to be competitive.
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Root could be the best English batsman for a very very long time.
Root is right up there with the best batsmen in the world and has been since the last ashes, his record in ODI and Tests since is superb.
Hales and Morgan were also utterly brilliant today and Roy looked better, still looks uncomfortable though.
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We've really missed that Surrey batsman haven't we?
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Morgan is fully back to his brilliant best.
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Whisper it quietly but this series has shown that less tests to fit in ODIs can work out well, I still love test cricket and I'd like to see all test series be 3 or 5 games but I'll be damned if this hasn't been the best ODI series I've ever watched, it really is utterly enthralling seeing 2 teams go all out at each other and do it with smiles on their faces and all played in a great spirit, I'd say this is the best home series for years, we should play NZ much more often.
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You do wonder though, with the pitches so run-friendly and the ball not swinging, we might as well just use bowling machines and see who can biff the ball further.
Still, mustn't complain, great to be competitive.
Very good point WTWD, and the very balanced and knowledgeable Kiwi commentator on the BBC opined that is was not a game of bat against ball, but bat against bat. During the last game Alex Tudor tweeted that watching that match would not encourage any young aspiring bowlers to get involved with the game.
On the other hand, in the County Championship, the whole equation appears to have swung(not sure if the pun is intended) the other way.
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I think it's mostly that, at the very highest level, the quality of batsmen is so high that they make it look easy to smack good line and length deliveries into the crowd. Look at Bell, and in particular his record for Warwickshire over the last few years between his time with England, he;s 2 or 3 steps above the average county player and the difference in quality is obvious. Take that talent, give them a version of the game that pays them a fortune to be wreckless and the outcome is that you get what we're seeing at ODI level.
There are other issues, the white balls aren't as good as the red ones and should be replaced/improved and the wides for anything that goes down leg rule needs to be reconsidered, I'm also not sure if the powerplays have any value any more either. That said I don't think changing those things will see it go back to ODIs where 250-270 is regularly a defended target, T20, for better or worse, has changed the attitudes of players and what we're now seeing is England realise as much and join the likes of NZ, Aus, SA and India who were already there.
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Recent England performances have been so refreshing. They have picked the right players, allowed them to play their natural game and seemingly created some genuine team spirit. Kevin who?
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What a vibrant brand of cricket we're playing. It's been a joy to watch, particularly after a woeful World Cup.
It's been quite a turn around and I wonder if it's purely the Farbrace effect or if Trevor Bayliss has issued instructions to his trusted number 2?
I do think the game gives too much favour to batsmen and things do need to be equalled out a little. Maybe the powerplays should be adjusted to try and address the dominance of the bat and make things a little more balanced. That has to be for the good of the game in the long run.
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With the form that Morgan is in he might be back in with a shout of pushing for the Test side, which I know he's stated he wants to do.
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Looks like we'll be chasing a score in excess of 350 again
This is rapidly becoming the norm, on a decent pitch the side batting first have got to be looking at 375+ every time now.
These New Zealanders can come over here to play anytime, they play the game in the right way and they have bought the best out of the "New" England in both Tests and ODIs.
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You do wonder though, with the pitches so run-friendly and the ball not swinging, we might as well just use bowling machines and see who can biff the ball further.
Not really, because the difference between the two teams today was the bowling of Finn and Wood. Their figures may not look great compared to games in the past but no NZ bowler could get close to the control those two had.
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You do wonder though, with the pitches so run-friendly and the ball not swinging, we might as well just use bowling machines and see who can biff the ball further.
Not really, because the difference between the two teams today was the bowling of Finn and Wood. Their figures may not look great compared to games in the past but no NZ bowler could get close to the control those two had.
That's a reasonable point, but for me a key part of the game is the input from the playing conditions - the variability contributed by pitch and ball. One day pitches are now seemingly tailored so that the batsman can count on a reliable bounce and no seaming so that they can clock up another notch on the six counter.
It's sort of fun, but it is hopelessly one-sided for me. And that's not cricket. Still, in the era of IPL et al. That's the way the world wags so I might as well suck it up.
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And further to this: even reverse swing has been eliminated almost entirely by the introduction of two balls.
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I think the white balls have something to do with it. They used to swing once the lacquer wore off, but a ball that is say 20 overs old that is being used in the 40th over should offer the bowler some assistance.
They've been experimenting with a pink ball in the MCC games. I wonder if it's time to extend that trial? Something has to be done to redress the balance.
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I heard the commentators chatting recently and they made the point that the one day game regularly goes through phases where batsmen seem to be having it all their own way only for bowlers and their coaches to figure out a way of countering it and then the cycle starts again. In another couple of years the debate will probably shift the other way. To me that constant evolution is one of the reasons the game is so fascinating.
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I hope that happens Chris and that England are for once innovators rather than continuing to play a version of the short game that is outdated. We've lagged behind the top nations for the best part of 25 years.
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Chris is probably partially right there, I still think the white balls nee to be reviewed though, 2 of them was supposed to help but really has the opposite effect of giving the batting side 2 balls that come of the bat well for and therefore doubling the early benefit. That the main reason why I've long advocated the Hales approach at the top, come out and thrash at everything for 10-15 overs whilst the ball is new so the ones off the toe of the bat or outside edge still go flying to the rope. Make no mistake we won the game yesterday because Hales put us totally in control after 12overs, from that point just batting sensibly and not losing wickets was going to be enough. It meant Root could just play his natural game of picking the gaps and running singles and Morgan had a period where he could get used to the pitch and punish the bad deliveries and then once it all felt controlled he just opened up.
Back to a single ball, make it shinier and give it a more pronounced seam so things start to happen off the pitch and the gap closes as much as it needs to. I still think 300-350 will be standard, that will always be the case from now on (unless they're playing on potato fields) because of the T20 mindset, if you get to 30-35 overs with wickets in hand you go big, that won't change, what might change is how many risks batsmen take in those 30-35 overs.
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Glenn Maxwell who I believe is a very destructive twenty20 cricketer has only got into double figures once for Yorkshire this season playing proper cricket. Heard a commentary of a Yorkshire match earlier this season where they were having a little wobble and he was playing as if it was a twenty20 trying to belt each delivery out of the ground, he didn't last long.
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There will be a shift back to the bowlers soon. I think the biggest problem is the fielding restrictions. But overall spectators are enjoying the games and that's the most important thing. Cricket needs to drive up interest and the Tests and ODIs against New Zealand have been brilliant for that. New Zealand are a quality team and I'd love to go and watch them play in New Zealand.
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I see Finn has made the pre-Ashes training camp which is good to see.
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About ten years late but good to see England finally playing the modern one day cricket that all the other teams play.
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Chris is probably partially right there, I still think the white balls nee to be reviewed though, 2 of them was supposed to help but really has the opposite effect of giving the batting side 2 balls that come of the bat well for and therefore doubling the early benefit. That the main reason why I've long advocated the Hales approach at the top, come out and thrash at everything for 10-15 overs whilst the ball is new so the ones off the toe of the bat or outside edge still go flying to the rope. Make no mistake we won the game yesterday because Hales put us totally in control after 12overs, from that point just batting sensibly and not losing wickets was going to be enough. It meant Root could just play his natural game of picking the gaps and running singles and Morgan had a period where he could get used to the pitch and punish the bad deliveries and then once it all felt controlled he just opened up.
Back to a single ball, make it shinier and give it a more pronounced seam so things start to happen off the pitch and the gap closes as much as it needs to. I still think 300-350 will be standard, that will always be the case from now on (unless they're playing on potato fields) because of the T20 mindset, if you get to 30-35 overs with wickets in hand you go big, that won't change, what might change is how many risks batsmen take in those 30-35 overs.
The boundaries also looked way in yesterday. The 50 overs game was traditionally the containment of a test match into one day, but has now become an extended 20/20 game.
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After watching Finn bowl the last couple of games I really think he is coming back to his best. He could have a massive future in the Test side if that's the case.
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Jonny Bairstow called up to the one day squad as Buttler is doubtful. It's an ECB plan to wreck our title chances I tell you.
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Hahahahahah!!!!!! Foxes win at Bears!!!!!!!
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Hahahahahah!!!!!! Foxes win at Bears!!!!!!!
And deservedly so.
As I have argued a number of times on the Bears thread, I am amazed that we have done as well as we have in the past in his form of the game, given that we make very few adjustments for the format.
Watching Boyd Rankin or Rikki Clarke run in to bowl with no slips is a very strange experience, verging on the surreal. V. Chopra opening in this format is beyond the surreal into the bizarre.
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The cricket thread has gone hopelessly off topic. That's not proper cricket, even though Yorkshire won tonight it's still not proper cricket!
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The cricket thread has gone hopelessly off topic. That's not proper cricket, even though Yorkshire won tonight it's still not proper cricket!
Amen, Brother Chris J.
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Buttler's out so I assume Bairstow will get his chance.
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Buttler's out so I assume Bairstow will get his chance.
Yes. Won the toss and are bowling. I think that is a good toss to win.
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Good bowling performance in general but that was a terrible final over from Finn, I think 275 was about par and going like he did at the tail has let them pass that.
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Terrible last over from Finn, but overall he's bowled beautifully in this series which is really encouraging.
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Terrible last over from Finn, but overall he's bowled beautifully in this series which is really encouraging.
I agree, that's what made it so frustrating.
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Duckworth Lewis confounds me. NZ scored at 5.66 an over yet England have been set 192 off 26 overs at 7.3 an over. How does that work then? Surely our target should be based around the NZ run rate? This target penalises a side batting second that has bowled well and keeps the net run rate down.
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The rate has to be higher because you've got 10 wickets which you can be more reckless with but the degree to which the rate increases doesn't fairly reflect the fact that we kept their score down and took regular wickets, closer to 175 I'd be ok with. The worst thing is the pressure of the rate has got or top order chasing things and giving wickets away. We're going to lose this series here on the back of 2 very harsh DL targets in games where we had got ourselves into a decent position to go for the win.
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The rate has to be higher because you've got 10 wickets which you can be more reckless with but the degree to which the rate increases doesn't fairly reflect the fact that we kept their score down and took regular wickets, closer to 175 I'd be ok with. The worst thing is the pressure of the rate has got or top order chasing things and giving wickets away. We're going to lose this series here on the back of 2 very harsh DL targets in games where we had got ourselves into a decent position to go for the win.
That's the most annoying part. Still we should be used to it with our weather.
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I may have been hasty to call this as a defeat, this partnership has been very good if they can accelerate things a little, which they're starting to do here, 16 from the 16th over has made it much closer and back to 8 an over when the required rate was starting to get a bit high.
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Bloody love our Jonny. Chuffed to bits for him and Adil.
What a magnificent series this has been. Next time let's have five Test matches with them please.
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Well that was a great performance by Bairstow. He wasn't even in the squad on Thursday and today he's won the game that clinches the series. Fair play fella.
All in all the games against the Kiwis have been great. Hopefully the feel good factor from this one day series will be carried forward into the next test series. Not sure who it's against......
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Fabulous performance. Bairstow was brilliant.
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England without Cook as cpt are a bit like Villa without Lambert.
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Great win but the powers that be need to have a tinker with Duckworth / Lewis.
England bowled well and would have been chasing a modest (for this series anyway!) target at less than 6 an over, a bit of rain and suddenly it's a T20 chase, seemed very unfair to me.
That they still managed to win, especially from 40/5 speaks volumes for the attitude that these England players have suddenly found since the World Cup.
Great series, let's play NZ more often please.
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What's important is that we continue this style into the Ashes. I think our best chance is to take the Aussies head on. Let's see how Johnson holds up mentally if he's getting smashed back over his head. Let's see how Starc gets on in red ball cricket when the batsmen get after him.
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What's important is that we continue this style into the Ashes. I think our best chance is to take the Aussies head on. Let's see how Johnson holds up mentally if he's getting smashed back over his head. Let's see how Starc gets on in red ball cricket when the batsmen get after him.
A competent, genuinely fast bowler with an attacking field including say four slips and a gully in a test match will seldom be smashed back over his head, and any batsman attempting such is likely to be back in the pavilion in short order.
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What's important is that we continue this style into the Ashes. I think our best chance is to take the Aussies head on. Let's see how Johnson holds up mentally if he's getting smashed back over his head. Let's see how Starc gets on in red ball cricket when the batsmen get after him.
I think there might be a case for Hales to open during the Ashes, even though Lyth did well against New Zealand. If we just try and survive against their attack, there's a chance that we will be bullied out of it. The ODI series againt them could be very interesting.
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What's important is that we continue this style into the Ashes. I think our best chance is to take the Aussies head on. Let's see how Johnson holds up mentally if he's getting smashed back over his head. Let's see how Starc gets on in red ball cricket when the batsmen get after him.
A competent, genuinely fast bowler with an attacking field including say four slips and a gully in a test match will seldom be smashed back over his head, and any batsman attempting such is likely to be back in the pavilion in short order.
I wasn't been literal. But the Aussie lower order did exactly that to Anderson and Broad in Australia. We have to show positive intent or we will definitely lose.
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It's not really about smashing him out of the park, with Johnson in particular you need to punish the wayward balls (they're always there). Last ashes only really Carberry and KP tried to counter-attack, the rest all went into their shells and tried to last it out, which just encourages him to be more aggressive. That's why those 2 were the only upper order batsmen with what approached being a reasonable average for the series (Stokes went after him as well and showed up the more senior players). We can't be frightened by a bit of aggression and let the aussies bully us. Starting with Hales is probably a good way to counter that if he can reign it in a little in the first 10-15 overs whilst the ball is hard.
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Bangladesh beat India to take unassailable two-nil lead in three-match ODI series. First ever series win against them.
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Bangladesh beat India to take unassailable two-nil lead in three-match ODI series. First ever series win against them.
Great achievement for them. Hope they can build on it.
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Cricket at Dodger Stadium, Wrigley Field and The Death Star
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/890195.html
Former Australia legspinner Shane Warne has confirmed that he has booked three of the most famous baseball grounds in the United States of America as venues for a series of exhibition T20 matches that will feature retired international players.
Warne said that Wrigley Field in Chicago, the Yankee Stadium in New York and the Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles had been booked as venues for games likely to be held in November
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LA would be fine, but would the other two not be a bit cold/wet for cricket in November?
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LA would be fine, but would the other two not be a bit cold/wet for cricket in November?
That's my thinking as well.
Miami, San Diego and Phoenix would be better options but I guess that Warne wants a geographical spread and places with a more English/West Indies fan base than Hispanic
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Solid start from England. I'm thinking about the Ashes and if Ballance's poor form continues I would consider putting Root to three and bringing Morgan in at five.
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These boundaries look bigger than at any of the ODI's.
That was an over we badly needed
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What I like about this current England batting line up is that when we lose a wicket the next man is just as likely to come in an be able to pulverise the attack and up the run rate, no more nudgers and nurdlers.
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This is an explosive start by NZ. We need quick wickets to peg them back.
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Good first over by Stokes, pity Bairstow put that chance down.
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I think I hope NZ win, they have been such great tourists they deserve something
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I think I hope NZ win, they have been such great tourists they deserve something
They drew the test series
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yeah I know, but they deserve something
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yeah I know, but they deserve something
A longer test series would be a fitting reward next time they tour.
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yeah I know, but they deserve something
A longer test series would be a fitting reward next time they tour.
Yeah, definitely.
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Great comeback by England after NZ went off like a train. The spirit amongst that group of players seems to be very strong and they seem to delight in each others success.
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Enjoyed that, positive batting and some good disciplined bowling. looking good at the moment for England.
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I'm thinking about the Ashes and if Ballance's poor form continues I would consider putting Root to three and bringing Morgan in at five.
I'd not have Morgan in the test side. I've always been a fan of his unorthodoxy but think he's a one-day specialist. He'd get found out countless times in a test series. I'd try Taylor at five or bump Ali and Buttler up a slot each and bring Rashid in.
Morgan in the test side is like Cook in the one day side. Great players whose technique is not suited to the individual formats.
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Great comeback by England after NZ went off like a train. The spirit amongst that group of players seems to be very strong and they seem to delight in each others success.
A different game against the snarling Aussies rather than the hard but fair Kiwis obviously, but be interesting to see if Cook feels that he has lost a bit of the dressing room in the same way that Hussain did when he split the captaincy with Vaughan - especially if 'his' picks (Broad / Anderson / Ballance / Bell) don't perform to the standards being set by Root / Stokes / Buttler - and even more so as I see the first two as very strong characters who won't be shrinking violets in there.
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Can we ease off on the criticism of Ballance, it's about as unwarranted as it's possible to get. He averages over 52 and got a century and 2 50s in the West Indies, 3 tests is a bit soon to be talking about replacing him. If you want to replace someone from the top order Bell is the one who hasn't got runs (I'm not going to say hasn't shown form because he has, he just can't catch a break for England right now).
I do agree about Morgan though, I'm not sure he's right for test cricket I'd keep him as the ODI and T20 captain and let him work with the selectors to build a squad to challenge at world cups and then leave the test side to Root who i think is the clear choice for captain, Cook the batsman has a lot to offer, Cook the captain is a dead duck and has been for 18months, he never should've survived the last ashes.
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Great comeback by England after NZ went off like a train. The spirit amongst that group of players seems to be very strong and they seem to delight in each others success.
A different game against the snarling Aussies rather than the hard but fair Kiwis obviously, but be interesting to see if Cook feels that he has lost a bit of the dressing room in the same way that Hussain did when he split the captaincy with Vaughan - especially if 'his' picks (Broad / Anderson / Ballance / Bell) don't perform to the standards being set by Root / Stokes / Buttler - and even more so as I see the first two as very strong characters who won't be shrinking violets in there.
I think the main difference here is that at the moment Morgan will not be in the dressing room and Cook has the respect of the test side. Hussein was a captain coming towards the end of his tenure, whereas Cook for the moment is secure in his post. I expect he will make way for Root soon though.
I watched highlights of a couple of ODI's from the Vaughan and Hussein eras last night. The one day teams and test teams were 80% the same, whereas today the reverse is true.
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Can we ease off on the criticism of Ballance, it's about as unwarranted as it's possible to get. He averages over 52 and got a century and 2 50s in the West Indies, 3 tests is a bit soon to be talking about replacing him. If you want to replace someone from the top order Bell is the one who hasn't got runs (I'm not going to say hasn't shown form because he has, he just can't catch a break for England right now).
Didn't want to be accused of bias so haven't bothered to defend him, but paul says what I was thinking. Think people are too quick to want to see players dropped or replaced and are getting a bit carried away with the ODI series, if we take that into the Ashes we'll be 125/8 at lunch on the first day.
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I like Ballance and think long term he'll be a great player, but it's important we carry form into the Ashes. Hopefully he'll hit the ground running, but he's just not looked right of late.
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Broad had a good couple of days with the ball and bat at Headingley, I would say it's a shame about his team mates but...
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Can we ease off on the criticism of Ballance, it's about as unwarranted as it's possible to get. He averages over 52 and got a century and 2 50s in the West Indies, 3 tests is a bit soon to be talking about replacing him. If you want to replace someone from the top order Bell is the one who hasn't got runs (I'm not going to say hasn't shown form because he has, he just can't catch a break for England right now).
Didn't want to be accused of bias so haven't bothered to defend him, but paul says what I was thinking. Think people are too quick to want to see players dropped or replaced and are getting a bit carried away with the ODI series, if we take that into the Ashes we'll be 125/8 at lunch on the first day.
It's more the positive intent that people want to see in the ashes. In Australia last time, we couldn't have been more negative if we tried. That constantly led us to being 30-2 after 15 overs.
No one wants us to be reckless, but we have to put pressure onto them, rather than just meekly allowing them to do what they like. Which is what we did last time
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Can we ease off on the criticism of Ballance, it's about as unwarranted as it's possible to get. He averages over 52 and got a century and 2 50s in the West Indies, 3 tests is a bit soon to be talking about replacing him. If you want to replace someone from the top order Bell is the one who hasn't got runs (I'm not going to say hasn't shown form because he has, he just can't catch a break for England right now).
Didn't want to be accused of bias so haven't bothered to defend him, but paul says what I was thinking. Think people are too quick to want to see players dropped or replaced
Yep and as the ODI series against the Kiwis showed, taking away the fear of being dropped after one or two failures pays dividends. I have no doubt that Jason Roy would have been dropped in the past after his performances in the first couple of games, but he was given a chance and by the end of the series he looked to have found his feet.
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Kumar Sangakkara has today announced his retirement from Test Cricket (effective in August).
A brilliant batsman who has been a joy to watch.
More importantly, he is an absolute gem of a human being. Anyone who loves cricket, should watch the 2011 Cowdrey Lecture he gave. It is breathtaking.
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Sanga is one of the best ever.
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Great player. I'd say he's overtaken Gilchrist as best wicket-keeper/batsman ever. I'm assuming he'll still carry on with Twenty20 cricket.
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I see Australia will play New Zealand in a day-night Test, using a pink ball.
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I like the idea of trying to broaden the appeal of cricket, although maybe they should focus on building up developing nations rather than knocking them down. The problem with day/night Tests is that at night lots of cricket playing nations get a dew forming, which makes it impossible to bowl.
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Great player. I'd say he's overtaken Gilchrist as best wicket-keeper/batsman ever. I'm assuming he'll still carry on with Twenty20 cricket.
It's a pretty fascinating debate to have, given all the different factors involved. Gilchrist has a better average as a wicket keeper (47.6 v 40.5) but Sanga's average of 68 when not keeping is utterly absurd, and makes you wonder if he might've kicked that up over time, keeping in mind how he's seemingly gotten even better as time has progressed. Then you have to account for Sanga coming in at no. 3 against the new ball vs Gilchrist coming in at no. 7, often after Langer/Hayden/Ponting/Waugh had finished dismantling the other team, which made it easier for him but also probably limited his opportunities in terms of amassing big scores as opposed to being aggressive to help the team.
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England squad to face Australia in first Test: Alastair Cook (Essex), Moeen Ali (Wors), James Anderson (Lancs), Gary Balance (York), Ian Bell (Warwickshire), Stuart Broad (Notts), Jos Buttler (Lancs), Steven Finn (Middlesex), Adam Lyth (Yorkshire), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Mark Wood (Durham).
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So, who misses out? Wood and Rashid ?
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England squad to face Australia in first Test: Alastair Cook (Essex), Moeen Ali (Wors), James Anderson (Lancs), Gary Balance (York), Ian Bell (Warwickshire), Stuart Broad (Notts), Jos Buttler (Lancs), Steven Finn (Middlesex), Adam Lyth (Yorkshire), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Mark Wood (Durham).
Think the starting team will be: - Cook, Lyth, Ballance, Bell, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Broad, Wood, Anderson
Rashid's inclusion is an interesting one and might point to him possibly starting.
Aussie line up today:
Rogers, Warner, Clarke (C), Voges, Watson, Marsh, Nevill (W), Siddle, Starc, Hazlewood, Lyon
Haddin, Smith and Johnson to come in for Voges / Marsh, Nevill and Siddle?
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So, who misses out? Wood and Rashid ?
Wood will play. It'll be Rashid or Moeen I expect.
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So, who misses out? Wood and Rashid ?
Wood will play. It'll be Rashid or Moeen I expect.
I think it will depend on the weather conditions and the state of the pitch as to which one will play..
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Mike Selvey reckons that England could play two spinners at Cardiff with Stokes as third seamer.
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Mike Selvey reckons that England could play two spinners at Cardiff with Stokes as third seamer.
Really hope they don't do that. They tried that in 2009 at the same venue and it just didn't work.
Stokes is an immensely talented cricketer, but at this stage of his progression, his bowling is not yet good enough to be the 3rd seamer
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Hmmm not sure about two spinners. Also I'd want Wood in the side for his extra pace and also on a dry pitch reverse swing could be crucial.
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I doubt Rashid will play but if he doesn't I hope they release him to play at Edgbaston in the County match.
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If they were to play two spinners then the attack would be:
Anderson
Broad
Stokes
Ali
Rashid
Stokes isn't at the level yet to be considered the 3rd seamer. Ali is yet to prove himself as a frontline international spinner, and hasn't bowled much this summer, and Rashid would be playing in his first test match. That puts an insane amount of pressure on Broad and Anderson.
I really hope they don't go that way.
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Yes, apart from Anderson there's no one there to shut an end up on current form. Not sure who that'd be in any case...since Swann swanned off we've rather lacked that.
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England squad to face Australia in first Test: Alastair Cook (Essex), Moeen Ali (Wors), James Anderson (Lancs), Gary Balance (York), Ian Bell (Warwickshire), Stuart Broad (Notts), Jos Buttler (Lancs), Steven Finn (Middlesex), Adam Lyth (Yorkshire), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Mark Wood (Durham).
Aussie line up today:
Rogers, Warner, Clarke (C), Voges, Watson, Marsh, Nevill (W), Siddle, Starc, Hazlewood, Lyon
Haddin, Smith and Johnson to come in for Voges / Marsh, Nevill and Siddle?
It'll be Marsh to make way, I expect, even with his score today. Everyone in Australia is clamouring for Watson to get dumped for good from the Test side, but I suspect he'll be picked and closely monitored. Haddin isn't all too far away from it either, but his leash is a little longer even though I have limited confidence in his batting these days.
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Lyon getting some punishment in the warm up game.
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I doubt Rashid will play but if he doesn't I hope they release him to play at Edgbaston in the County match.
The county match starts on Sunday. I doubt they will release Rashid three days before the start of the test.
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Interesting article by Athers in The Times today. It's an interesting appointment.
It has been a surprise that accompanying photographs of England’s new coach have not included, as yet, one of an ageing fellow with a wind-up radio. After all, Trevor Bayliss (the inventor’s name differs only by the spelling, a single “s”) comes to English cricket as a complete outsider: we know as little about him as he does about us.
Bayliss was presented to the media at Lord’s yesterday for the first time and he came across as pleasingly down to earth — in his own words, “a little rough around the edges.” He did not give in to the corporate demands of the modern ECB, wearing only a Waitrose-emblazoned top, and in his jeans and Dr Martens, with short grey whiskers adorning his chops, he looked like a man determined to stay true to himself. Amen to that.
His coaching philosophy sounded simple and full of common sense too. He believes in players taking responsibility for their performances — “not too far away from Shane Warne’s view of coaching, to be honest”, he said — and that his job is to create an honest, hard-working, relaxed environment in which players feel comfortable about expressing themselves. He sounded like the coach’s anti-coach, which was profoundly reassuring.
He said that he was flattered and honoured to be offered the opportunity to coach England and only the timing gave him cause for thought. His daughter is in her final year at school and will remain with his wife in Australia for the time being. English cricket’s job, he said, is to get up to speed with the rest of the world, citing the influence of 50-over and Twenty20 cricket on Tests, which has bypassed, he thought, England in the past few years. His job is to get up to speed with English cricket.
No England coach, after all, has come to the job with so little knowledge of our game. Similarities with Duncan Fletcher have been cited in this regard, because Alastair Cook and Bayliss, Fletcher and the England captain, Nasser Hussain, had never met before they were partnered.
Fletcher, though, had coached Glamorgan to the County Championship title and knew enough of players he had seen and the system they played in to be able to promote players such as Michael Vaughan and Marcus Trescothick, despite their modest first-class records.
Other England coaches have been immersed in the English game. Micky Stewart, England’s first professional coach, spent a lifetime playing county cricket with Surrey; Keith Fletcher, likewise with Essex, was a distinguished former England captain and player; David Lloyd was a former player, umpire, administrator and county coach, a jack of all trades and master too. Then Fletcher. Peter Moores had played and coached county cricket and run the national academy and Andy Flower, possibly the best of them all, had spent years with Essex as a player beyond his international commitments.
Bayliss is a complete outsider. His extensive CV includes associations with the cricket of many nations, including his native Australia, as well as Sri Lanka and Indian domestic cricket, but not England. He has had involvement with the odd England player — Eoin Morgan, for example, with whom he will form a one-day partnership, and Sam Billings, who played grade cricket with Bayliss’s son, Adam — but that is about it.
For Andrew Strauss, who picked him, that was part of the attraction. How far his distance from the English game will be an advantage will be fascinating to see. As an outsider, he comes with no baggage. Although English cricket seems to have moved on finally from the ruinous events of 2014, Bayliss has an advantage that he has not been involved at all with the decision-making that almost brought England cricket to its knees. His only comment about Kevin Pietersen has indicated that the batsman remains unavailable for selection, a decision, as is known, that did not involve him at all.
He will also be able to make decisions on players based on the here and now. Although he will be aware of the wonderful records of, say, Stuart Broad and Ian Bell, he will not be bound by loyalty to them as coaches and captains can be who feel a debt of gratitude to long-serving players. He will be able to assess their effectiveness and make decisions accordingly. That confers a double advantage: senior players touched with complacency must know the need to impress the new coach all over again. That will do wonders for their motivation.
While lending a sense of impartiality and distance, his lack of knowledge must hinder him to some extent. Bayliss knows next to nothing of the level below the international team, so will be reliant on the good judgment of others. But whose judgment to trust? Bayliss cannot know the selectors very well, or county coaches or captains. It would be hard to envisage a situation where, as Tony Greig did in 1975, Bayliss rings around the county set to find the best player of fast bowling and come up with a hidden gem such as David Steele. Or as Fletcher did with Trescothick and Vaughan.
It is a very modern appointment, reflecting the transnational, professional nature of the game. A Sri Lankan is coaching Bangladesh; a Zimbabwean recently coached India and England, of course, have been powered by two foreign coaches until Paul Downton decided that an Englishman was a must. Strauss has turned away from that, desiring simply the best man for the job, and Bayliss was regarded the strongest candidate by those close to the process when Moores was appointed for the second time.
For Bayliss, the job, as Michael Clarke said on arrival in England, is “where business is at”. Australians have been closely involved with English cricket before — Rod Marsh, now chief selector for Australia, ran the academy for a while, and county coaches such as Jason Gillespie have done well here — but none so intimately involved as Bayliss.
Times have changed, then: when, as captain in 1993, I asked Ian Chappell to dinner to discuss captaincy, he did so reluctantly, saying initially that he would not do anything to help English cricket, although in the end he took pity on a young captain struggling with the demands of the job.
For Bayliss, there have been no such misgivings. As he said yesterday, he has coached Sri Lanka against Australia and with some success too. “I’m also old enough to have sung God Save the Queen as a schoolboy in Australia, so I reckon I know most of the words,” he says. His intimate knowledge of Australia’s cricketers may be more significant in the short term and he promised that his team would “not take a backward step” and would “fight fire with fire”. “You cannot beat Australia by playing anything other than bright, aggressive cricket,” he said.
As an indication as to how quickly things can change, Bayliss’s arrival is not anticipated with the same urgency as when he was appointed. Since then, England’s one-day fortunes have changed the mood.
Paul Farbrace, who demurred when asked if he wanted to throw his hat in the ring, has been in charge while this transformation has taken shape and, now, Bayliss’s most important contribution would seem to be encouraging a similar path that the one-day team have just taken.
Farbrace, immersed in the English game and close to Bayliss, will be a critical sounding board for the new man. “Paul Farbrace is my eyes and ears right now,” Bayliss said.
Farbrace’s biggest achievement in the interim was to shift attention from coach (Strauss correctly identified that the problem with Moores was that every game became a referendum on his coaching ability) to players. Bayliss’s reputation is of someone who believes in a player-led environment. “The best players in the game have all been self-reliant and single-minded,” he said. “They know what to do to prepare and they are able to make decisions for themselves on the field, rather than look to the coaching staff for an answer.”
Bayliss’s greatest achievement in time may be if he produces a team who do not need babysitting, and if he leaves the job with us knowing as little about him as the day he arrived
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Really enjoyed listening to the Aussies get smashed all over Essex this afternoon.
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Luke Wright and Tymal Mills looked good for Sussex against Middlesex last night.
Wright has generally flattered to deceive and perhaps his chance has gone. That said he is one of the handful of English-qualified players who regularly gets an IPL/BBL contract so he must still have something to offer. They should stick with the squad that they used for the one day series against NZ but he would be a good reserve to have on call.
Mills is a different proposition. He has a back condition that may force him to give up the game completely. He is only playing T20 cricket this year and is resting between games. He bowled with skill and intelligence, taking 4-22 off his 4 overs with 14 dots. If he can overcome his back complaint he will be quite some bowler. A left arm quick can be lethal in a game that is heavy with right handers.
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Problem is I don't think he will overcome his back problem. He might be able to play Twenty20, but the longer forms put too much strain on him. It's a congenital issue with his spine I think.
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Problem is I don't think he will overcome his back problem. He might be able to play Twenty20, but the longer forms put too much strain on him. It's a congenital issue with his spine I think.
That is a real pity. He had real potential. His long-term health and mobility must come first though.
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Really enjoyed listening to the Aussies get smashed all over Essex this afternoon.
Me too, second division batting line up giving them some treatment.
Everything about the Aussies I dislike cricket wise. The baggy green caps, team full of gobshites, Johnsons tache, Warner the tubby wanker, Clarkes whining, Nathan Lyon Australias version of Robert Croft, can someone please just smash him out of the attack, Glenn Mcgraths stupid predictions.. 10-0 ? You haven't won over here for 14 years, don't forget that.
I hope we pummel them this summer and the fans and media react with as much dignity as their mob did.
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Problem is I don't think he will overcome his back problem. He might be able to play Twenty20, but the longer forms put too much strain on him. It's a congenital issue with his spine I think.
That is a real pity. He had real potential. His long-term health and mobility must come first though.
Yeah it's very sad, but hopefully he can have a future in Twenty20.
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The Aussies are a pretty unpleasant team for the most part. Actually they remind me a bit of the England team in 2013, there's a real arrogance about them. Haddin's behaviour in World Cup final being a prime example.
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Ryan Harris has retired. He was a fantastic bowler and also a good bloke.
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And Bob Taylor's had a heart attack. Can't believe he's 73!
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Bob Taylor was a gentleman cricketer. I wish him full recovery and a long life ahead.
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Ryan Harris has retired. He was a fantastic bowler and also a good bloke.
Seemed very sudden as well. In a few weeks he has gone from preparing for an Ashes series to having to retire. Must be hard to take.
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If you can access NowTV they're giving Sky's coverage of the first day of the Ashes tomorrow free of charge.
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Great test match over in Sri Lanka ended this morning on the fifth day with a win for Pakistan by 7 wickets. 382-3 being the sixth highest fourth innings score to win and old dog Younis Khan hits 171 NO.
Let's hope we get some matches like that in the Ashes series.
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I'm really looking forward to the Ashes, but for me it starting in Cardiff takes a little bit of the edge off.
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I'm really looking forward to the Ashes, but for me it starting in Cardiff takes a little bit of the edge off.
If the Cardiff test is as good as the one in 2009 then I won't complain. The last wicket stand between Jimmy & Monty Panesar was great.
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If you can access NowTV they're giving Sky's coverage of the first day of the Ashes tomorrow free of charge.
What is Now TV and can I get it free with Virgin?
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If you can access NowTV they're giving Sky's coverage of the first day of the Ashes tomorrow free of charge.
What is Now TV and can I get it free with Virgin?
I think you need to buy another set top box. I've had a quick search through my Virgin TiVo box and can't see that you can get it on the Virgin platform. You do seem to be able to book day and week sky sports tickets though Now TV which may interest some.
www.nowtv.com
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Not sure, you can get it on laptops and phones I think.
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Yeah you can pay for what you want to watch rather than have a monthly subscription.
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Bit of rain and cloud about, covers still on. Might be one of those cliched "good toss to lose" days.
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Not sure, you can get it on laptops and phones I think.
You can register 4 mobile devices and watch it on 2 at the same time, works on laptops, Macs, iOS and some Android devices.
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Bit of rain and cloud about, covers still on. Might be one of those cliched "good toss to lose" days.
It's bloody typical. It's been great weather nearly all summer so far and the day the Ashes starts there's rain about. Hopefully it'll be gone by the start of play.
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Well, it's here again!! Being a cricket fan, the Ashes is one of the great sporting contests and is always that bit special. I'm a bit apprehensive about our chances, but we shall see.
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I love the Ashes and I just wish to rain would fuck off.
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I have the same feeling of dread about this series as I've had about Villa games for the last 4 or 5 years.
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Sounds like they've taken all the grass off the wicket, which is annoying.
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Happy new Ashes guys!
Seriously, this should be a good series and one that is closely fought. I don't think the sides are that far apart. The Aussies have a stronger attack but our boys on form at home will trouble anyone. We will have an idea after the first 30 minutes of play about what we can expect this summer.
If things don't go our way, let's try and remember that we're in a rebuilding phase and some of our guys are still learning. Let's cut them some slack.
TMS is on the air at 10am and I cannot wait to hear the wonderful theme tune, it still fills me with anticipation even now after over 40 years of watching/listening to Cricket.
Oh and one more thing before the excitement gets to me.
COME ON ENGLAND!!
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Rousing post that! I'm really looking for to it. I love the summer of cricket, especially when it's the Ashes. Now let's just go at them hard and see how they cope.
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This does not bode well. TMS did not start with Soul Limbo. I feel like I've been debagged of my lucky pants.
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This does not bode well. TMS did not start with Soul Limbo. I feel like I've been debagged of my lucky pants.
WHAT !!!! sacrilege.....
come on England lets have a good first session.
UTV
The Doc
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This does not bode well. TMS did not start with Soul Limbo. I feel like I've been debagged of my lucky pants.
WHAT !!!! sacrilege.....
come on England lets have a good first session.
UTV
The Doc
They played a clip featuring highlights of previous series going back over many years. Then they played Soul Limbo.
Wrong way round.
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This does not bode well. TMS did not start with Soul Limbo. I feel like I've been debagged of my lucky pants.
WHAT !!!! sacrilege.....
come on England lets have a good first session.
UTV
The Doc
They played a clip featuring highlights of previous series going back over many years. Then they played Soul Limbo.
Wrong way round.
phew at least it got played :)
UTV
The Doc
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Won the toss and we're batting.
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Won the toss and we're batting.
That's probably good, but it's up to the top order to do a job.
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Early tossing to allow for having three anthems
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I like Swanny. He's been a great addition to TMS
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Won the toss and we're batting.
That's probably good, but it's up to the top order to do a job.
Pitch report saying it's very dry and no grass. As you say, we need the top order to fire.
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I like Swanny. He's been a great addition to TMS
Clearly a face for radio! He's been truly awful at times with distasteful West Indian impressions during the Caribbean tour. Hopefully he has learned from this because as a recently-retired test player he should have some decent insight.
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Teams:
England
AN Cook*, A Lyth, GS Ballance, IR Bell, JE Root, BA Stokes, JC Buttler†, MM Ali, SCJ Broad, MA Wood, JM Anderson
Australia
DA Warner, CJL Rogers, SPD Smith, MJ Clarke*, AC Voges, SR Watson, BJ Haddin†, MG Johnson, MA Starc, JR Hazlewood, NM Lyon
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Raining in Cardiff so a minor delay is expected.
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If we bat well it should bring Moeen into the game.
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If we bat well it should bring Moeen into the game.
He should have some rough to exploit from the footmarks of their left armers.
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You do wonder about the logic of cricket sometimes. You get all the players out for the anthems and then send them back in to the changing rooms before starting at 11.15.
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I work from home so I've got TMS on the radio and the Sky Sports live stream on my personal laptop whilst working away on my work laptop. There's a delay of about 90 seconds between TMS on Five Live Sports Extra and the Sky feed. That will be useful because I will be able to keep up with important developments without having to work late to make up for time spent on here or watching cricket.
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Effectively the Sky feed is 3 balls behind! It will be interesting if ever there was a chance of a hat trick!
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I like Swanny. He's been a great addition to TMS
Clearly a face for radio! He's been truly awful at times with distasteful West Indian impressions during the Caribbean tour. Hopefully he has learned from this because as a recently-retired test player he should have some decent insight.
He's too busy trying to be the class clown, i find him tiresome, as you say he should be able to offer some decent insight but we're still waiting.
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Lyth gone, 7-1
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Oh dear, this piles the pressure on Ballance. Not a great start.
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Lyth gone, 7-1
And to all those calling for more yorkies in the team........
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Lyth gone, 7-1
And to all those calling for more yorkies in the team........
Not me, imagine what we'd be doing to Warwickshire if we had all our players!
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or the Bears if they hadn't lost Woakes, Barker and Ambrose to Injury and Bell to England.
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or the Bears if they hadn't lost Woakes, Barker and Ambrose to Injury and Bell to England.
Might have got to 100.
Smiley, winky thing.
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yeah but if we'd had our bowlers you might not
;)
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Already seen a few close ups of the big AVFC Tamworth St George's flag
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Chef gone
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How the hell do you get out to Nathan Lyon within the first hour of a test match?
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too close to cut Cookie.....shame he looked OK..
UTV
The Doc
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Shit.... here comes the collapse
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Oh dear Bell. Need to rediscover some form quickly.
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Not sure why Bell hasn't reviewed that, looks well worth checking.
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Another failure for Bell.
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We are in real trouble here.
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What a bunch of jokers on an easy paced pitch as well. And another thing is concentration levels, we seem to lose wickets after breaks of play far too often for my liking.
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I'm starting to think batting first was a mistake, the ball is moving all over the place.
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Come on Root and Ballance dig in. This is a seriously flat pitch.
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The pitch isn't the important thing, it's the atmospheric effects, the swing is varying a lot, Starc in particular is getting some really interesting movement.
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Not sure why Bell hasn't reviewed that, looks well worth checking.
Umpire's call on leg stump so he'd have been out if he'd called for a review.
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Oh dear. Looks like it might be a long summer.
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Bell is averaging 6 over his past 9 innings.
We will have lost the Ashes if we have to carry his awful form across another 9. Time to bin him.
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Bell really is in dreadful form, he's probably got until the end of the next game.
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We go through this all the while with Bell though. He's great to watch when in form, but when out of touch (which happens far too often) he's rank.
We can't carry him again, especially with the Pietersen debacle.
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Bairstow in for Bell next Test please, he needs to find his form playing some county stuff.
Our top order continues to be shite.
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Good to see Root starting to play well.
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Hazelwood looks a very good bowler.
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I'm glad to see Ballance sticking in, but I worry when he gets stuck for a long time. Of the batsmen out so far it's only Cook that actually looked good.
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Good counterattack by J.R.
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We need big innings from Root and Ballance now.
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Not sure why Bell hasn't reviewed that, looks well worth checking.
Umpire's call on leg stump so he'd have been out if he'd called for a review.
Yeah I saw, I thought it looked like it was going wider than hawkeye showed, I wouldn't have been upset with him reviewing that one even knowing now that it wouldn't have made a difference.
Decent recovery since, some nice counter-attacking from Root who's taken the ODI attitude change into the game with him.
It helps that the ball is softening and getting a little less movement, now the flat pitch should work in our favour so we need to push the score for the next 25-30 overs before it starts reversing.
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Good recovery from Root and Ballance, but definitely Australia's morning. A lot more work to do.
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Boycott questioned why, given that pitches in Cardiff are always flat and unresponsive, they awarded them an Ashes test. Simples Geoffrey, they bid the most money!!
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Watching that back Starc bowled 4 beauties in the row, Bell got done by his 1, Root managed to dodge all 3 largely by luck. That's pretty much the difference between averaging 15-20 and averaging 100 right there. Yes you make your own luck and Bell did get drawn across but Root was all over the place for those 3 deliveries but got away with it, right now Bell isn't getting away with much at all.
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We need big innings from Root and Ballance now.
Ballance has got a really important role now. If he can anchor the innings, that should allow Root, Stokes, Buttler and Ali to play their natural games and we might just get out of this.
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Watching that back Starc bowled 4 beauties in the row, Bell got done by his 1, Root managed to dodge all 3 largely by luck. That's pretty much the difference between averaging 15-20 and averaging 100 right there. Yes you make your own luck and Bell did get drawn across but Root was all over the place for those 3 deliveries but got away with it, right now Bell isn't getting away with much at all.
I'd agree with that if we look at one innings in isolation, but Bell has been consistently poor for a while now. And actually other than the century in the Windies he's been poor for a year or so in Test cricket.
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Watching that back Starc bowled 4 beauties in the row, Bell got done by his 1, Root managed to dodge all 3 largely by luck. That's pretty much the difference between averaging 15-20 and averaging 100 right there. Yes you make your own luck and Bell did get drawn across but Root was all over the place for those 3 deliveries but got away with it, right now Bell isn't getting away with much at all.
I'd agree with that if we look at one innings in isolation, but Bell has been consistently poor for a while now. And actually other than the century in the Windies he's been poor for a year or so in Test cricket.
Yes but as I've said before when someone has a run like that you can normally see clear technical reasons for it that bowlers are seeing and targeting. Take Cook and him hanging his bat out to wide ones for a year and you'll see what I mean. With Bell there's nothing like that, there's nothing in his game that you can pinpoint as him needing to work on. Watch his wickets from the last few series and it's a mix of poor movement/shot selection and bad luck but with nothing jumping out for him to work on at the bears and then come back in the winter. I honestly think if he goes that's it and he won't be back because even if he scores a hatful I don't know if it proves anything, that's what makes it so tough to know what to do with him.
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Ballance doesn't look very comfortable with the short ball.
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Ballance doesn't look very comfortable with the short ball.
Nope, but his job here is to keep his wicket which he's managing so far, I'd like to see him attack Lyon a bit to get his confidence back though.
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I don't want to see us sitting in too much against Lyon. If we just allow him to bowl throughout this series then their pace bowlers will get plenty of rest. As an aside this, at the moment, is a poor Test wicket. I really don't think Cardiff is a very good venue.
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I'm glad Ballance is there, but he needs to work out this short ball. Good from Root against Lyon.
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We're making life too easy for Lyon at the moment, but it's been a good recovery so far.
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I think in this series it's going to be important that we don't let Watson/Marsh and Lyon just bowl over after over without any pressure. I can see Root is trying to be aggressive, but it's important that it's not all down to him.
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We need to go after Watson a little more as well. I want them to find that Watson and Lyon aren't the run saving safe options they're hoping for so we can see how Clarke reacts to not being able to tie things down at one end and let Johnson, Starc and Hazlewood have expensive but quick and aggressive spells at the other end.
Lyon isn't a terrible bowler and I think he's unfairly maligned by some but we really need to put him under some more pressure.
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Good over as I was typing, 8 from it, a couple more like that and I don't think Clarke will be able to stick with him. Need Ballance to try to get something from Lyon at the other end though.
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Yep agreed. I appreciate Ballance is struggling and needs to stick in, but it's critical we don't just allow Lyon to bowl. That is where a lot of our problems have come in the past. Also if Ballance isn't doing it it heaps the pressure on Root.
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This is better keep getting the singles off Lyon.
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Now I love Joe Root, but this is his danger time now. He quite often looks absolutely amazing and like he'll never get out and then gets out in an unexpected way in the late 80s early 90s. Come on Joe make it a big score.
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When Root gets to his ton he will also inch ahead as the leading test run scorer on a rolling 12 months basis. Current target is 1415.
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Good gritty 50 Ballance, now kick on.
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Proper test match batting there. bowler change see off his first 5 and than dispatch him for four.
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Excellent session for us. Kick on in the evening session.
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Good afternoon session, more of the same in the evening session please.
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Excellent session for us. Kick on in the evening session.
Very good recovery from where we were. The first hour after tea is going to be crucial.
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Apart from a bit of uneven bounce in Starc's first over, this pitch isn't offering anything.
The lead singer of the Village People is looking as ordinary as he always does in our conditions.
Good digging in from Ballance and Root is as classy as ever. Important, as others have said, that we kick on, as you'd think it would be difficult to take 20 wickets on this pitch.
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Right now this pitch and the standard weather in Cardiff are making a draw the safe bet here, the cloud cover this morning was important and gave them something to work with for the new ball but after about 15-20 overs the swing went and nothing much has happened since. Unfortunately the pitch is so slow that there's not enough pace to score freely on it either.
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Got to say Cardiff is easily the worst Test ground. The pitch is never good.
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Cardiff have simply bought this test match but this pitch will suit Moeen Ali on the 4/5th day. Aussies did not deal with spinners on similar pitches in the Middle East earlier this year.
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Ballance gone, it's a dangerous time now. We need to make sure we don't have a clatter of wickets again or we'll be in trouble.
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Not sure paul, there was some movement and decent bounce at times, Johnson is getting a bit of swing as well. There were edges and close LBW shouts a-plenty in that last session.
Depends on how the pitch holds up of course, but I reckon it could be a bit nasty to bat on by days 4 and 5. Get 400 here and we've got a great chance.
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We need to get up and around 400 I agree.
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Well done Mr Root.
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Well done Joe now go on.
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Fastest ton in the opening innings of an Ashes test. Well batted, now please be there at stumps!
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I like Ballance, he's gritty and sticks around even when it's not going for him but I've got to say that was an appalling wicket, that's just the batting of someone who's still thinking about his tea, very disappointing.
Dave - let's see, I think there's not enough in the pitch for it to be mostly over by the end of Saturday and the weather reports for Sunday suggest it will be a heavily disrupted day (which as mentioned would be par for course in Cardiff) I just can't see the game progressing quickly enough to get to that stage. We'll be aiming for 400-450 which I think is doable with the batting we have to come and I suspect they'll get up to 400+ as well and that will be 3 days gone, leaving it as pretty much a 1 innings game with what will be about 130-140 overs in it, which i can't see ending with a winner. It just looks like one of those games. The best chance for a team to win this was that dropped catch when Root was on nothing, in my opinion.
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Ah, hadn't looked at the weather forecast. I was banking on it being a nice weekend, even in Cardiff!
Anyway, Joe Root is now averaging over 154 in Test matches in 2015.
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Ah, hadn't looked at the weather forecast. I was banking on it being a nice weekend, even in Cardiff!
Anyway, Joe Root is now averaging over 154 in Test matches in 2015.
His record since the last ashes really is unbelievable, it's right up there with the all time greats, I understand all the people calling for him to move up the order but I really don't want to see them risk anything that might harm his game when he's so clearly the top batsman in the world right now.
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Actually he isn't, that stat was made up by some bloke here in the office who can't count!
Still bloody impressive though.
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Hope Root's back isn't a serious problem.
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Root gone. It was an excellent innings, so well done. But it's a bad time to lose a wicket. It's important we push on now. We need at least 400.
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Actually he isn't, that stat was made up by some bloke here in the office who can't count!
Still bloody impressive though.
If you check on cricnifo and gets year by year stats:
2012 - 93 (in 1 match)
2013 - 34
2014 - 97
2015 - 84* (and going up because of this innings)
those 2 ashes series have harmed him but since then his average sits around 92.
Awww, there he goes, that's a damn shame after another superb performance.
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We're entering quite a dangerous phase of play here.
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Good fifty Stokes, now keep going.
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Hmm Stokes gone. We're in a bit of trouble here. This is moving towards being Australia's day.
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Need the keeper and Moeen to push us towards 400. Broad let loose on that position would add very handy runs.
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for me this is a case of getting to the end of the day safely with this pair in place and something around 340 on the board then we can have a steady 5-10 overs in the morning before we let them just go for it and push the score as high as we can before lunch.
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I am going with a bold prediction of 430 all out. I also haven't looked at the score since I last posted!
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Cheap wicket that.
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Buttler is a massive loss, 400 will be tough now.
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Honours just about even, particularly as we were 40-odd for 3.
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It was a good effort from Moeen. Hard to tell yet, but we lost wickets at key periods so I'd say it's Australia's day. Brilliant knock from Root though.
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It was a good effort from Moeen. Hard to tell yet, but we lost wickets at key periods so I'd say it's Australia's day. Brilliant knock from Root though.
In the balance really, if we get around 400 I;d say that looks about par.
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It was a good effort from Moeen. Hard to tell yet, but we lost wickets at key periods so I'd say it's Australia's day. Brilliant knock from Root though.
Bit generous to say it's been Australia's day Paul. I personally would have taken that if offered it before the start of play.
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I'm not saying I wouldn't have taken it, but the Aussies bowled poorly and it's a very flat pitch.
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Possibly well balanced day but get 400 plus and it's advantage England.
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Just England's day, but only just, and really only because at 43-3 we were in real trouble.
Already looking like two evenly matched teams, Lyth and Cook won't get out cheaply every time (he says!), we bat deeper than them with Ali at 8 and I would put our pace attack right up with theirs. Neither of us have a proper spinner either!
This could be a fun few weeks.
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It's vital that Moeen and the tail put on a decent amount of runs this morning. This is a very flat pitch, so we're going to have to bowl well to get them out.
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Australia claiming a catch that was clearly on the ground. It will be difficult for them to get off their high horse for Broad not walking now....
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Broad should have ignored the fact that Voges was cheating and walked....that's what Aussies expected!
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Well done Moeen very good 50.
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Excellent 50 from Moeen. Yet again he's doing an excellent job of weighing in with runs down the order.
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52 partnership for 8th was good. Need another 30 or 40 from last two wickets.
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400 up. That's a good effort from where they were.
Weather's looking crappy for Sunday, so England need to get close to 500 and then look to bowl the Aussies out twice
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Ha ha, good throw twat.
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Moeen once again proving his value. In fact I think he's batting far too low in the order.
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You praised him too much. Gone.
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Still did a massively important job. Getting us beyond 400 was vital.
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England in a very healthy position.
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Enjoyed Woods attempt at a reverse sweep last over.
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430 all out. Would have definitely taken that before the start of play. Some good innings in amongst that total and a few demons will have been exocised.
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I am going with a bold prediction of 430 all out. I also haven't looked at the score since I last posted!
Boom!
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Very good end to the innings there. Moeen's form with the bat has been pretty good lately, let's hope it translates to the ball. But it's really important that Cook keeps faith with him.
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Jimmy a bit all over the place. Good from Cook though getting Wood and Ali into the bowling early. He's got to use them plenty this afternoon.
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Can see Aussies declaring on 600-2 sometime tomorrow evening.
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We needed that wicket there. It's really important that we bowl tight.
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We need to get Smith early.
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Can see Aussies declaring on 600-2 sometime tomorrow evening.
it will either go that way or we'll get the top 4 fairly early and skittle them for a lot less, Voges is a bit of an unknown at test level but after that Watson and Haddin don't have much form and the bottom 4 are all capable of scores but they are a genuine tail so If we can get into them early enough I don't think they'll offer massive resistance, our bowling at the tail has bene poor for years but I think Wood does a lot to address that.
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I'd get some spin bowled at Rogers.
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This is looking ominous. We need to bowl tight on this pitch and try and force an error.
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Smith gone. TBH that shot of his to get out looked like Steve Smith from 2013. Is he really the world's number 1 batsman? Still looks shite to me.
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That was excellent bowling from Moeen and good captaincy from Cook there. It's a very important wicket.
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That was a vital wicket before tea. Smith is a brilliant player of spin, so it's a big wicket for Moeen. Hopefully he can get rid of a couple more.
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Smith gone. TBH that shot of his to get out looked like Steve Smith from 2013. Is he really the world's number 1 batsman? Still looks shite to me.
I think he might well have to hand that crown over to Root very soon.
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Big wicket.
This game really is finely poised.
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Moeen has done brilliantly today.
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Moeen has answered all the debates about whether he should play.
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I wonder whether Holding might regret the "England really need a spinner and don't tell me Moeen Ali is a spinner" comment from tea yesterday, maybe not yet on the back of 2 wickets but if he can keep taking important wickets when needed then it's going to start to look like a silly statement.
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Punter's had a hair transplant hasn't he?
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I don't really see what he brings to commentary team, I've always thought he was a knob and nothing in the last 2 days has made me think I was wrong, good batsman, decent captain (but nothing like as good as he thinks he was) but not a person I could ever warm to.
That's a massive wicket, given the form Haddin has been in we're potentially into the tail now and we really should be looking at a decent lead. Commentary talking about it sticking in the pitch but for me it was as much down to a rank shot, the bat was almost sideways when he made contact, nothing like strong enough wrists, I can't really work out what he was trying to do.
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To be fair Ponting was a great batsmen rather than good. Excellent day for us in the end. Excellent discipline from the bowlers.
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Been in meetings all day and then suffered horrific delays on the train back from Manchester so I've not seen any play and won't get to see any highlights tonight. I really dislike the days when I don't work from home.
How did we bowl? Did we spill any chances?
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Been in meetings all day and then suffered horrific delays on the train back from Manchester so I've not seen any play and won't get to see any highlights tonight. I really dislike the days when I don't work from home.
How did we bowl? Did we spill any chances?
Only really watched for the last hour, didn't see any dropped chances but I saw 3-4 edges that didn't carry, towards the end Root at 2nd slip was 4-5 paces forward of an orthodox slip and 1 still didn't carry, the pitch is really flat and the older ball is getting rubbish bounce on a normal length.
The Ali C&B of Clarke is a good one if you can find it somewhere.
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Thanks Paul
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Well bowled with great control and our fielding was good.
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Bowled about as well as we could given the extremely benign conditions I thought.
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If we can bowl them out for 350 or less we'll be in a great position. But it's really important that we knock them over quickly now, we know the difficulties we've had against their lower order in the past.
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It's going to be an interesting day. A couple of early wickets and we are right into them. If we don't they could get a big score.
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We've got to make sure we bowl with as much discipline as we did yesterday. That will force mistakes.
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Punter's had a hair transplant hasn't he?
I'm not sure. I don't recall seeing him all that often without his baggy green or helmet on his head. I was amazed he even had hair under there!!
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Can see Aussies declaring on 600-2 sometime tomorrow evening.
hahaha...
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Watson gone brilliant ball from Broad.
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Big wicket that. Let's hope Broad runs through them, Haddin is a big wicket.
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Lyon gone. Great start today. Now don't let their bloody tail get runs.
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Good spell from Broad & Wood, convicts are pinned down, let's rip into them and smash 'em up a bit.
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Great start. Into the tail now.
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Great timing with the new ball due. We really need to make a statement here and establish a decent lead.
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Four balls with the new ball and Jimmy is bowling some absolutely beautiful balls. Three outswingers followed by a sublime inswinger. Lovely to see.
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Blowers and Sir Geoffrey discussing their view on beards v clean shaven
(http://digitizemyshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/statler-waldorf.jpg)
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Starting to move into "it's ours to lose" territory here, which will inevitably see us reduced to around 50 for 6 in our 2nd innings.
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This has been a brilliant display from all the bowling unit, everybody has made key contributions. Now finish them.
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Brilliant. 122 lead. Now capitalise with the bat.
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How the hell can Henry Blowfeld confuse Mark Wood with Moeen Ali? Never been a great fan of his but he increasingly gets the score wrong and blathers on about bloody pigeons like it's now some sort of catchphrase, time to ease him out of the TMS box I reckon. I know he's a bit of a character and all that but just occasionally giving out the correct score would be nice.
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I was just going to say Blofeld's commentary when he's actually talking about the cricket is so frustrating. He never actually explains what's happening and just gets carried away.
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Blofeld called the end of an over yesterday when 3 balls has been bowled. Swann almost apologetically said he nearly made the same mistake, but he clearly didn't.
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Early to say it but I'm pretty glad to see that the aussie lower order was as weak as I expected. I'll hold myself to it now, if their top 4 don't score big runs the rest of the team hasn't got enough in it.
Nice lead given where we were at lunch on Weds, consolidate through to Lunch and an hour afterwards and then go a bit more expansive and try to get the lead up towards 400 by the end of the day, follow up with a flash for an hour in the morning and then give 2 1/2 sessions on Sat and whatever we can get on Sun to bowl them out.
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Cook going isn't ideal. We need minimum 250 in this innings.
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Batting not easy. Starc is getting lot of swing.
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How the hell can Henry Blowfeld confuse Mark Wood with Moeen Ali? Never been a great fan of his but he increasingly gets the score wrong and blathers on about bloody pigeons like it's now some sort of catchphrase, time to ease him out of the TMS box I reckon. I know he's a bit of a character and all that but just occasionally giving out the correct score would be nice.
Yep, I think that time has just about run out for the dear old thing.
Ed Smith needs to be brought in as a permanent TMS member
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I'd also like to hear my old Rugby/Cricket teammate Steve "Pedro" James as summariser. Its been two or three years since he appeared.
Last I knew he was living in/near Cardiff, so he's probably there reporting for the Torygraph
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Cook going isn't ideal. We need minimum 250 in this innings.
I agree 250 is minimum any lower and Aussies win this.
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Blimey Daggers is only 39 ???
He sounds 30 odd years older than that
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Lovely little counter-attack this, Hazlewood and Starc getting movement out of the ball and looking a threat so Bell comes out and attacks, Lyth goes with him and both get hit out of the attack in 4 overs, 49 in 5 overs just isn't test match cricket.
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This is good from Bell. Attack.
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Shame Lyth went but that was a really important little partnership there to steady things whilst the ball was still new-ish. Need Root and Bell to consolidate a bit now.
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Bell goes but this is turning into a possible 400 lead.
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We've got to take into account the forecast for Sunday. We need to get to a 400 lead and declare.
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I think we will bat out our innings, then let them have a go!
I have a gripe. I'm in the South of France and the only way I can listen to the cricket is online via ABC Grandstand. I have the BBC radio player on my IPad but the BBC and T.M.S. say that due to rights issues it cannot transmit to my location.
Thankfully, the Crims care more about their lot being able to listen wherever they are in the world than the BBC.
Oh, the commentators on ABC...... Aggers, Geoffrey, Swan, Mann, plus Maxwell etc!
Dear Points of View!
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We should have enough but we're being a little careless.
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Wood looks a proper cricketer.
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Wood is playing a little gem here.
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We're in a great position and we have to win from here.
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A damned good day for England. Starc bowled really well and Bell's innings was so important to him and the team. Tomorrow should be a good day.
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The pitch isn't getting any easier, as shown by the scores progressively lowering each innings.
If we put the balls in the right areas often enough we really have no excuse not to win from here
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First post on this thread. Hello everyone. It pains me to say this, but for the last 15 years or so, I get far more excited and enjoy so much more watching ashes cricket than Villa. Looks like it's 1-0 barring a disaster (which is always round the corner for England!)
1st test was at the Gabba in '02 when nas won the toss and put the Aussies in to bat, to astounded hilarity from the predominantly Aussie crowd surrounding me and the old Man. I took a home made at Georges cross with nuneaton and avfc in the corners. I draped it over the advertising hoarding and it lasted about 10 minutes before a zealous security bloke ripped it down. Shortly after, Simon jones did his knee in right in front of me. He was squealing in pain whilst the charitable larrikins around us were shouting: get up ya soft ****** etc. I always liken the Gabba to edgbaston in terms of the partisanship of the crowd, but I doubt England supporters would do that to an Aussie player. Couple of big hundreds from Michael Vaughan were the highlights in that ultimately doomed series.
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Even with the rain on Sunday we should get at least the equivalent of four sessions to bowl them out, the forecast actually helps because it means the Aussies probably can't reach the target unless they go into one-day mode.
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Anyone else slightly nervous this morning?
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I am now after that drop.
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Could have done without that drop, but if we bowl well we'll win.
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Good to get that first wicket early.
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Anyone else slightly nervous this morning?
No. Australia will lose however predicted bad weather on Sunday may well save them. Just got to be be patient.
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This is looking slightly ominous at the moment.
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Hopefully this is a bit of reverse psychology but I reckon Australia will win this.
That should do it.
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Moeen comes back with a massive wicket.
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That shows good character from Moeen, because his first spell was rubbish. Also good from Cook to back Mo.
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Smith gone.
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Broad is on a roll.
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106-5!
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Quite a turnaround since before lunch and all started with Moeen removing Warner.
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I don't know why they ever moved Watson down the order. He always got good scores when he was opening.
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Moeen strikes again.
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Great catch by Cookie...........
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Umpire strikes back Watson gone
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This is getting frustrating.
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Don't you just hate people like Root who are good at everything?
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Nearly there.
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Don't you just hate people like Root who are good at everything?
Only when they're Australian! If he wasn't already MOTM he surely is now.
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Australia massacred! Ha ha!
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Brilliant from Root. Also questions on Ali should go now, he scored 77 and took 5 wickets.
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Great win. And a thumping one at that.
BUT...
I'll expect a better Australia for the 2 nd test as they did look undercooked. The test reminded me a little of ther first test in 97 at Edgbaston where England also won well after a brilliant first morning. Not quite a brilliant first morning here but you get my drift. A great counter-attack in both of England's innings although we were quite lucky also with so many snicks missing stumps, fielders etc. I expect a better more fired up Asutralia who seemed very flat to me, for the 2nd test.
I like how positive we're trying to be much was more reminiscent of the first day at Edgbaston in 2005. I really think we caught a flat Australia flat-footed and they couldn't respond to our counter-attacking. Well done Moeen. I'm going 'To Do A Delph' as it should be henceforth known and eat humble pie. I wanted him out of the team but has responded excellently.
Just get KP into the top 4 and I'll be happy...Happier...
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Just get KP into the top 4 and I'll be happy...Happier...
I just said that another great thing about recent form is that he doesn't get a mention any longer and you have to spoil it! He's history as far as England are concerned, you'll be able to see him on Stricyly and I'm A Celebrity soon enough no doubt.
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Fantastic team performance, everybody contributed and again plenty of smiles on faces.
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A great team win and a marker has been set for the rest of the series. Broad bowled as well as I've seen him bowl for a very long time and Cook's captaincy was as good as he's ever been. Apart from the first hour on the first day we've been on top.
I suspect the Aussies have a few problems. We will produce slower pitches to negate the threat of Johnson and Starc; their best bowler in English conditions Harris has retired, Starc is a doubt for Lords and a couple of others look to be on the wane, Haddin and Watson in particular.
An interesting few weeks ahead,
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Good all round but for me Root, Moeen and Broad all stepped up and made things happen at the key moments, 3 brilliant performances and all of them deserve mention in the man of the match discussions (with Root edging it for a match saving first innings). As I've said before, for all the knockers Moeen does the job and I've never understood the criticism and Root should rightly be regarded the best batsman in the world right now, it's only a matter of time in my opinion.
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Highlight for me was the bowling unit as a whole.
Broad probably looked like the best bowler today, but there was no let up from any of them.
Jimmy didn't get any wickets in the second innings, but bowled accurately. When Broad and Anderson were resting, Wood came in and could bowl up to 90mph -and with accuracy. Stokes didn't give away much either. Moeen played like he's been a fixture in the side for years.
Whereas the Aussies would be right to feel aggrieved after going so close in the first test in 2013, they can have no complaints today. A team that fancies themselves as the best in the world got a right doing. Hopefully lays down a marker for the rest of the series.
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You see now there is no need for that arsehole Pietersen to be part of this team. The self serving prima-donn is forgotten forever hopefully.
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Odd thing is he was playing this way long before Strauss and Cook had their Damascus conversion.
His style would be well suited to this side. But his personality wouldn't.
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One of the most notable things about this England performance is how much of a team effort it has been. Everyone has contributed and they've all seemed to enjoy each other's success. They seem very much a team. I don't think you can say that about any England team of the last decade, for all their triumphs. The last thing we need is for a selfish twat like Pietersen to come in and blow that apart.
In any case it baffles me that anyone should still be calling for Pietersen's return. Regardless of form, if you slag off your employers and teammates in a book then you can't expect to be picked again. Surely you'd have to be a total idiot to think you could.
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Natives not happy here.
Reckon England were more energetic and played the more daring Cricket, they do not like it up em.
Harris is an enormous loss for them, he's been the fulcrum of their attack, now it's just unbalanced and will struggle to create pressure as they'll be leaking runs. He gave them control.
Knives well and truly out for their number 1 whipping boy, Shane Watson.
Warms the cockles of your heart.
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Natives not happy here.
Reckon England were more energetic and played the more daring Cricket, they do not like it up em.
Harris is an enormous loss for them, he's been the fulcrum of their attack, now it's just unbalanced and will struggle to create pressure as they'll be leaking runs. He gave them control.
Knives well and truly out for their number 1 whipping boy, Shane Watson.
Warms the cockles of your heart.
As soon as the Harris injury/retirement was announced the 'shape' of this series changed. I didn't know if it would be the difference between winning and losing but it was clearly going to have a massive effect on their attack given he's the only one of their bowlers with a genuinely good record in English conditions.
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There's a nice article in the Observer today about the club Joe Root played for, when he returns to watch games he's still the same likeable lad he was when playing for them and is happy to have a bowl in the nets at the young 'uns. Imagine how that must make the kids feel!
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The Harris retirement is remarkable really. Why bring someone on tour who is touch and go whether he retires through injury or not? Surely they were aware of the potential career ending injury before they selected him?
You have to wonder.
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Graeme Swann?
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Mitchell Starc is carrying an ankle injury as well now and he is the Aussies best bowler.
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I think the longer the Aussies leave Peter Siddle out the better.............
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Starc will be alright I suspect.
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Graeme Swann?
I did think of Swann but at least he played a couple of tests before deserting the sinking ship. I felt his departure was as much about the situation on the tour and the general shambles that the England squad was back then and a general loss of form rather than an injury.
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He'd missed the NZ tour earlier in 2013 with the elbow, they knew when they took him to Oz he wasn't fully functional. Flintoff's been taken on tour with a wing and a prayer before too.
Anyway, hope Siddle doesn't play at Lords.
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He'd missed the NZ tour earlier in 2013 with the elbow, they knew when they took him to Oz he wasn't fully functional. Flintoff's been taken on tour with a wing and a prayer before too.
Anyway, hope Siddle doesn't play at Lords.
I like Siddle, he's a workhorse bowler and a typically Aussie snarling street fighter. He's not a patch on Starc though. Their attack is weaker without Starc.
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I hope people realise the value of Moeen now. Vital runs and he got Smith, Clarke, Warner and Haddin in the first Test. Those are all pretty vital wickets.
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Sky News Australia are saying that Starc will be fit for the second rest. I can't see him being at 100% though.
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Natives not happy here.
Reckon England were more energetic and played the more daring Cricket, they do not like it up em.
Harris is an enormous loss for them, he's been the fulcrum of their attack, now it's just unbalanced and will struggle to create pressure as they'll be leaking runs. He gave them control.
Knives well and truly out for their number 1 whipping boy, Shane Watson.
Warms the cockles of your heart.
I think they have got problems. Losing Harris was a massive blow and there are clearly a few of their players who were questionable selections (Watson, Haddin, Voges). They have got a lot to sort out.
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Natives not happy here.
Reckon England were more energetic and played the more daring Cricket, they do not like it up em.
Harris is an enormous loss for them, he's been the fulcrum of their attack, now it's just unbalanced and will struggle to create pressure as they'll be leaking runs. He gave them control.
Knives well and truly out for their number 1 whipping boy, Shane Watson.
Warms the cockles of your heart.
I think they have got problems. Losing Harris was a massive blow and there are clearly a few of their players who were questionable selections (Watson, Haddin, Voges). They have got a lot to sort out.
It's tough though, Voges I understand because he is used to English conditions and has a decent record, Haddin they don't seem to have much alternative for and Watson has to be replaced by an all rounder and I'm not sure they have anyone who could do that job.
The bigger issue is that they don't have a 'plan' bowler, Harris and Siddle have been the ones who've filled that role for the last few years and none of the current frontline quicks are that sort of bowler. They have bowling plans but I don't think any of them have the consistency of line and length to make the most of them. Look at the short stuff they used against Ballance, it bothered him but the accuracy wasn't there to put him under real pressure.
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5 battles to win the war....one in the bag, it was a delightful day at Ascot races Saturday listening to the convicts wickets tumble :)
well played the whole England set up...
UTV
The Doc
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England are considering Jayawardene and Collingwood in consultancy roles:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/897913.html
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The Aussies have had a good couple of years and it is important we don't get ahead of ourselves. However. ..
An awful lot of wins in that time have been built on the top 4 scoring an awful lot of runs or the quick rolling people over in helpful conditions.
Their attack to me looks unbalanced for our conditions and too many of the star batsman struggle against a swinging ball.
It will be interesting to see how our young side approach things when right up against it though, which they inevitably will be at some point in this series.
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The Aussies have had a good couple of years and it is important we don't get ahead of ourselves. However. ..
An awful lot of wins in that time have been built on the top 4 scoring an awful lot of runs or the quick rolling people over in helpful conditions.
Their attack to me looks unbalanced for our conditions and too many of the star batsman struggle against a swinging ball.
It will be interesting to see how our young side approach things when right up against it though, which they inevitably will be at some point in this series.
That's when the senior pros like Bell, Broad and Anderson need to step up to the plate.
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Haddin to miss the Lords test for "personal reasons".
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We don't know the circumstances as to why he pulled out, but could be a blessing for Australia.
His daughter was ill a while back and he withdrew himself from selection, so I hope it's not a recurrence of that. But he wasn't in great nick and this takes the decision out of Australia's hands. England won't have seen too much of Peter Nevill, and that could work in their favour too.
Though you'd expect Bayliss to know about any player from NSW.
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Suggestions that Shane Watson is going to be dropped for the second test. He's in stinking form but it would still be a surprise at such an early stage. Also, Haddin is apparently staying in London with the squad, so whatever his family problem is it's not serious enough for him to leave the tour.
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I don't think they should drop Watson. I actually think he's a good player, but he's batting in the wrong position.
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I don't think they should drop Watson. I actually think he's a good player, but he's batting in the wrong position.
Yes with his pad in front of the stumps!
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Moeen is a doubt for the second Test, that'd be a big blow.
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I don't think they should drop Watson. I actually think he's a good player, but he's batting in the wrong position.
He's a talented cricketer and always has been.
However, he only averages 35, and has been given many many chances
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Haddin to miss the Lords test for "personal reasons".
He personally can't catch a cricket ball.
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I don't think they should drop Watson. I actually think he's a good player, but he's batting in the wrong position.
Yes with his pad in front of the stumps!
Beaten to the punch!
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Haddin to miss the Lords test for "personal reasons".
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/the-ashes/ashes-2015-separate-brad-haddin-the-man-from-haddin-the-wicketkeeper-20150714-gicg56.html
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Haddin to miss the Lords test for "personal reasons".
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/the-ashes/ashes-2015-separate-brad-haddin-the-man-from-haddin-the-wicketkeeper-20150714-gicg56.html
He's been through some pretty tough personal stuff hasn't he? Ashes rivalry aside, hope the bloke is OK.
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Haddin to miss the Lords test for "personal reasons".
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/the-ashes/ashes-2015-separate-brad-haddin-the-man-from-haddin-the-wicketkeeper-20150714-gicg56.html
He's been through some pretty tough personal stuff hasn't he? Ashes rivalry aside, hope the bloke is OK.
Agreed.
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I wonder how they'd feel if an England player held a press conference saying how they think Haddin is 'weak' for his poor performance and shot at Cardiff and subsequent leaving of the tour like that monumental prick Warner did about Trott in Brisbane.
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I see the sky viewing figures for the ashes are pretty horrendous. Sky killing another sport off.
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Great to see you spreading your usual upbeat views in the cricket thread now.
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I wonder how they'd feel if an England player held a press conference saying how they think Haddin is 'weak' for his poor performance and shot at Cardiff and subsequent leaving of the tour like that monumental prick Warner did about Trott in Brisbane.
Good point.
Or if Cook was heard on microphone telling their lower order batsmen that that were likely to get their arms broken if they hung around.
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I hope we maintain the level we showed in Cardiff and the top order get some runs.
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I wonder how they'd feel if an England player held a press conference saying how they think Haddin is 'weak' for his poor performance and shot at Cardiff and subsequent leaving of the tour like that monumental prick Warner did about Trott in Brisbane.
Good point.
Or if Cook was heard on microphone telling their lower order batsmen that that were likely to get their arms broken if they hung around.
I only have to catch a glimpse of Warner and remember why I really want us to humiliate them.
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Feels like this test -and particularly today- could be the series.
Nevill and Marsh coming in could give the Australians fresh impetus with bat and ball.
If the Aussies bat first and post 400+, they won't lose this game.
England have carved out good results in the Windies and against New Zealand, but then failed to build on that. Bookies have the Aussies as favourites, and that's just about right, when you look at the form of the respective teams over the past 12 months.
But if England bat well again first up, or skittle the tourists out for circa 250 in the first innings, I think that will break the already fragile confidence of the current Australian squad.
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Line-ups
Posted at 10:35
England: Cook, Lyth, Ballance, Bell, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Moeen, Wood, Broad, Anderson.
Australia: Rogers, Warner, Smith, Clarke, Voges, M Marsh, Nevill, Johnson, Starc, Lyon, Hazlewood.
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Could be tricky now they're batting first. We need to bowl very well.
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Blowers has got to be phased out. He's already said that its 1915 and Tuffers has had to finish a couple of his sentences for him
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Blowers has got to be phased out. He's already said that its 1915 and Tuffers has had to finish a couple of his sentences for him
Has he been within 50 runs of getting the score correct yet this morning?
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This could be pretty difficult. This looks very much like a batting day.
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I think we may be in a spot of bother here. We're going to have to bowl an incredibly disciplined line on this pitch.
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Moeen strikes. We really needed that, but it looks like it's going to be very tough.
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It's one of those days where, as the bowling team, things need to go your way. The edge from Rodgers that went about an inch over Bell's hand showed what sort of day it was going to be for us. Important wicket from Moeen though but it's going to be tough to keep them below 400
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Yep if we keep them below 400 we'll have done very well. It's one of those days where you have to bowl tight and try and frustrate the batsmen.
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Dey-boo
Always makes me smile
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We've battled away well since lunch, but we really need some luck. We've got to keep up this disciplined bowling.
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I did find it weird when Rogers was being lumped in with the 'past it' players in the Aussie team after the last game. He's a bloody good player and it's very annoying. We could be facing a massive deficit here.
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We can't be dropping chances even if they're tricky.
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I did find it weird when Rogers was being lumped in with the 'past it' players in the Aussie team after the last game. He's a bloody good player and it's very annoying. We could be facing a massive deficit here.
He's not in the same category but him and Voges will both need replacing in the next year or 2, and Clarke and Johnson won't go much longer either, a lot of mid 30s guys in the squad and there aren't s great deal of young players coming up behind them again so they may have a similar fall to when they had the mass retirement a few years back.
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This has the horrible air of Australia posting a massive total and is being bowled out for about 200.
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This has the horrible air of Australia posting a massive total and is being bowled out for about 200.
It does indeed, but 10/3 against a draw being offered by Ladbrokes is quite generous.
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Discipline is gone now. We're in big trouble in this match now.
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Australia have batted well, but this is a terrible cricket. There is supposedly meant to be a contest between bat and ball and this is just dull.
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If it is true that the powers on high have requested "slow seamers" type wickets to mitigate their pace threat, then we could be facing a less than scintillating remainder of the series.
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The pitch in Cardiff got a lot of criticism but it actually turned out well because there was a bit of devil in it which caused the odd delivery to stick in so a lot of catches in front of the wicket, this pitch is just completely dead, it may have a bit more pace in it but it's flat and consistent, all three batsmen have looked comfortable for most of the day, Warner got out with a slightly silly shot and Rogers has given a couple half chances up but 3-4 half chances in an entire day is a sure sign of a batting pitch. What remains to be seen is how the pitch ages, if it stays like this for a couple more days it'll be a bore draw, if it starts to break up and gets a bit of uneven bounce then it was just a good toss to win.
I've said many times that Lords produces too many matches like this where losing the toss gives you very little chance of winning and I'd love it if we could have a couple of series where there aren't games there to push for them to do something different but because of it's status as a venue it will always be guaranteed tests.
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Graeme Swann
✔
@Swannyg66
When did someone transport the Nagpur wicket to Lord's?
If he thinks this wicked is flat, wait until he sees what our guy at Edgbaston can do when so directed.
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Graeme Swann
✔
@Swannyg66
When did someone transport the Nagpur wicket to Lord's?
If he thinks this wicked is flat, wait until he sees what our guy at Edgbaston can do when so directed.
If you're talking about the recent Sussex match then to be fair to him he suggested an alternative wicket was used and Dougie Brown insisted on the wicket that was ultimately played on.
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I'd like it if we just produced pitches that suited their natural chracteristics. Let's back our players to win rather than worry about how they'll cope with the Australians. There's going to be a hell of a lot of pressure on us when we bat now.
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Discipline is gone now. We're in big trouble in this match now.
Bit early to panic just yet, but its beginning to look like a day of rain would come in handy.
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Graeme Swann
✔
@Swannyg66
When did someone transport the Nagpur wicket to Lord's?
If he thinks this wicked is flat, wait until he sees what our guy at Edgbaston can do when so directed.
If you're talking about the recent Sussex match then to be fair to him he suggested an alternative wicket was used and Dougie Brown insisted on the wicket that was ultimately played on.
That is true, and I posted Dougie Brown's admission about this on the Bears/Pears thread at the time. There have been quite a few other examples though, but he was probably directed to prepare the pitches that way.
As for Lords, I watched all 4 days of our recent CC game there, and the pitch retained a green tinge throughout. Finn was lethal on the first day.
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Discipline is gone now. We're in big trouble in this match now.
Granted I've not seen any of the play but going by TMS they don't seem too critical of England so not sure where the discipline issue is? Sounds like it's a flat , docile strip and before the toss a lot of runs were predicted for whoever batted first.
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Discipline is gone now. We're in big trouble in this match now.
Granted I've not seen any of the play but going by TMS they don't seem too critical of England so not sure where the discipline issue is? Sounds like it's a flat , docile strip and before the toss a lot of runs were predicted for whoever batted first.
The discipline went later in the afternoon. Broad was excellent however.
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I see the sky viewing figures for the ashes are pretty horrendous. Sky killing another sport off.
what are the figures, before/after?
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It's a shame cricket isn't on terrestrial television but I'm fairly certain the viewing figures for any football they show is most of the time fairly pitiful too and it's hardly 'killed' football off.
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I see the sky viewing figures for the ashes are pretty horrendous. Sky killing another sport off.
what are the figures, before/after?
2001 - 1.11m
2005 - 2.5m
2015 - around 400,000
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It's a shame cricket isn't on terrestrial television but I'm fairly certain the viewing figures for any football they show is most of the time fairly pitiful too and it's hardly 'killed' football off.
I'd say it's more of a disgrace rather than a shame.
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I see the sky viewing figures for the ashes are pretty horrendous. Sky killing another sport off.
what are the figures, before/after?
2001 - 1.11m
2005 - 2.5m
2015 - around 400,000
The only thing I'd say about that is that we've so far had half a day of weekend test cricket in this series, it's not a big leap to suggest that weekend viewing figures will be a lot higher than weekday ones, lets wait until the end of the series before calling the death of the ashes because of sky.
It's a shame cricket isn't on terrestrial television but I'm fairly certain the viewing figures for any football they show is most of the time fairly pitiful too and it's hardly 'killed' football off.
I'd say it's more of a disgrace rather than a shame.
Completely disagree, it's a shame because it's not available to everyone but the money spent by sky was a big driver behind the introduction of snicko, hotspot and hawkeye all of which have done more good than harm and have led directly to the review system which i think is a brilliant addition to the sport at international level. I think the same about Rugby, yes it's shame they have the rights to move games and that there aren't more games on terrestrial TV but the improvements in the quality of the coverage are worth the expense. Football is the anomaly and that's because the quality of 'experts' on Sky (Neville aside) is as poor as anything before it.
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I see the sky viewing figures for the ashes are pretty horrendous. Sky killing another sport off.
what are the figures, before/after?
2001 - 1.11m
2005 - 2.5m
2015 - around 400,000
The only thing I'd say about that is that we've so far had half a day of weekend test cricket in this series, it's not a big leap to suggest that weekend viewing figures will be a lot higher than weekday ones, lets wait until the end of the series before calling the death of the ashes because of sky.
It's a shame cricket isn't on terrestrial television but I'm fairly certain the viewing figures for any football they show is most of the time fairly pitiful too and it's hardly 'killed' football off.
I'd say it's more of a disgrace rather than a shame.
Completely disagree, it's a shame because it's not available to everyone but the money spent by sky was a big driver behind the introduction of snicko, hotspot and hawkeye all of which have done more good than harm and have led directly to the review system which i think is a brilliant addition to the sport at international level. I think the same about Rugby, yes it's shame they have the rights to move games and that there aren't more games on terrestrial TV but the improvements in the quality of the coverage are worth the expense. Football is the anomaly and that's because the quality of 'experts' on Sky (Neville aside) is as poor as anything before it.
The fact that it's not available to everyone is precisely why I think it's a disgrace. English cricket was riding the crest of a wave after the 05 series. People who had previously no interest in the sport were suddenly hooked. The ECB then straight away moved future home series to Sky.
Regarding the quality of the coverage, Sky do the cricket excellently. There's no denying that. However, C4 were absolutely brilliant at it.
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If Test Match Special were taken off the air that would be a disgrace.
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If Test Match Special were taken off the air that would be a disgrace.
exactly, that's an appropriate use of the term. For me a disgrace is if you lose something very good and it isn't replaced or it's badly replaced. Sky took over the international cricket and stepped it up a level so I'm fine with it, it's a shame for people who can't/won't pay for sky/virgin/etc but it's hardly a disgrace.
What is also a disgrace is that the pitch was so poor yesterday that after 11 overs of the morning there hasn't been a single comment on todays play so here's the first, Rogers gone for 173 Broad with a well deserved wicket after he put in a fantastic effort yesterday in terrible bowling conditions.
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Yep it's a terribly flat pitch, and Broad is bowling exceptionally for very little reward. It just feels it's a case of waiting for Australia's declaration.
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Clarke looks woefully out of touch
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Has Henry Blowfeld managed to keep up with things?
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In fairness, we've done about as well as we possibly could this morning. Controlled the run rate and picked up a couple of wickets on a terribly dead pitch.
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Not watching yet, is the wicket doing any more or is it just a bit of a lack of focus that's led to the 2 wickets?
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Not watching yet, is the wicket doing any more or is it just a bit of a lack of focus that's led to the 2 wickets?
Nah, pitch as dead as a dodo. Clarke just looked badly out of touch, then played a pull shot poorly.
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Broad is bowling beautifully, but is this pitch starting to do more?
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It looks quicker which is not ideal.
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Good for Broad to get rid of Marsh. It'll be useful to knock his confidence. This pitch has definitely quickened up though, which isn't good.
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They're falling like pins, at this rate we'll have them all out for 700.
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Australia declare at 566/8 after Broad dismissed Johnson.
29 overs to face and the cloud cover is returning on cue.
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Ah fuck. Lyth gone. 0/1.
What a day this is turning out to be.
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Shit! We'll be all out for 0 if this continues.
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Unbelievable
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Before everybody starts saying how terrible we are and drop such and such and bring back whoever, just remember how well the same players played in the previous Test.
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It's lords, the toss is the most important decider to winning and losing.
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Ballance gone for 23 to Johnson afte playing some elegant shots. 28/2.
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Come on Bell. We need you to stay out there for a good while.
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Jaysus on a moped. Bell gone. 29/3. Awful shot.
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I smell a crushing.
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Bell goes too
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Root gone for 1 to Johnson.
30/4.
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If we could just get to stumps tonight with a couple of wickets in hand we might take this match into the afternoon session tomorrow.
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Well this is pretty dire.
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I'm not entirely convinced by Lyth yet. He seems to play a bit loosely. His early international career is a bit reminiscent of Sam Robson.
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Incidentally I'm not saying Lyth should be dropped or anything, just that he's showing areas of concern. Bell on the other hand should massively be on borrowed time.
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50 up! Cook and Stokes both on 12.
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Got them worried now!
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Ouch....that's gonna hurt
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Stokes has got to play his game, but realistically we need these two to put on about 300!
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51 partnership.
Well done, chaps.
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Ian Bell, how many good series has he had over the last 4 years?
Just looked it up, it's not many. He averages 34 over the last 4 years with only 6 tons.
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Ian Bell, how many good series has he had over the last 4 years?
Just looked it up, it's not many. He averages 34 over the last 4 years with only 6 tons.
I'm blaming Delph for his performance today.
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Ian Bell, how many good series has he had over the last 4 years?
Just looked it up, it's not many. He averages 34 over the last 4 years with only 6 tons.
Problem is there isn't many batsmen knocking at the door in first class cricket. I still think the only one ready to come into the team would be Pietersen.
In fairness, our top order continues to look utterly unconvincing. Lyth just appears a little short of quality at this level at the moment, Ballance is woefully out of form and so is Bell. It's too much to expect Root to save us every time he comes in at 30-3.
Oh, and Fabian Delph is a ******
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Ian Bell, how many good series has he had over the last 4 years?
Just looked it up, it's not many. He averages 34 over the last 4 years with only 6 tons.
Problem is there isn't many batsmen knocking at the door in first class cricket. I still think the only one ready to come into the team would be Pietersen.
In fairness, our top order continues to look utterly unconvincing. Lyth just appears a little short of quality at this level at the moment, Ballance is woefully out of form and so is Bell. It's too much to expect Root to save us every time he comes in at 30-3.
Oh, and Fabian Delph is a c***
I actually think Morgan is an option or Hales at 3 with Ballance dropping to 4.
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We basically need to hope it flattens out tomorrow and we lose no more than two wickets. That would put us at around 450-5/6. Massive ask, but that's what we need.
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Well this is nice to wake up to, that and Fibian's news.
Arsebuscuits!
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Well this is nice to wake up to, that and Fibian's news.
Arsebuscuits!
On the plus side OzVilla, for you it is a done deal, but we had to live to live through it. A double whammy into the solar plexus.
I still think we can put a couple of decent partnerships together on this wicket and avoid the follow-on. We will need the weather to intervene to avoid a defeat now, though.
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Ian Bell, how many good series has he had over the last 4 years?
Just looked it up, it's not many. He averages 34 over the last 4 years with only 6 tons.
Problem is there isn't many batsmen knocking at the door in first class cricket. I still think the only one ready to come into the team would be Pietersen.
In fairness, our top order continues to look utterly unconvincing. Lyth just appears a little short of quality at this level at the moment, Ballance is woefully out of form and so is Bell. It's too much to expect Root to save us every time he comes in at 30-3.
Oh, and Fabian Delph is a c***
I actually think Morgan is an option or Hales at 3 with Ballance dropping to 4.
I always thought Hildreth would get a look in one day. Scores a lot of tons.
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Slightly off tangent but my brother-in-law knows Moeen Ali. Apparently when he walked out to bat chief chatterer was David Warner. He was calling Moeen a 'clubber'. saying he was just a club cricketer. "Why you batting so low"? He was being asked.
Also, and this is already covered. KP is really hated in and around the dressing-room. Not just because of his arrogance but because he said what he wanted to whoever whenever he wanted.
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Started very well, but a lot of work to do.
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Stokes gone for 87 very annoying. It's up to Buttler to turn up now.
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KP is really hated in and around the dressing-room.
A very good friend of mine broke the news to me recently that they are related to him, they don't have a very high opinion of him as a person either.
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Need innings from Buttler, Cook and Moeen now. If we avoid the follow on I think we will save this test.
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Big innings for Buttler today. We need a big century from him. As an aside Blowers all over the place again. It just said with need 387 to avoid the follow on.
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Couple of bits of luck already.
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Buttler is doing pretty poorly with the bat. Come on Moeen save us.
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Our top order just doesn't seem to have the right balance, no pun intended. We are always 3 or 4 down for less than 100. On this pitch that is absolutely terrible.
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Our top order just doesn't seem to have the right balance, no pun intended. We are always 3 or 4 down for less than 100. On this pitch that is absolutely terrible.
Yep, the top of the order has been a problem for a while now. It puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the team and means they can't play their natural game.
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Cook gone for 96 well played, but that's a disappointing dismissal. We haven't done what the Aussies did and that's get in and make massive scores.
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Short of a miracle we're buried.
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No one has gone on to make a big one today in good conditions. A very poor batting effort overall. Bell is living on borrowed time.
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300 odd on this pitch is not good enough. It's been a poor display, but they have a chance to redeem themselves in the second innings. It's an extremely important innings for Bell and Ballance in particular. Lyth needs to show more application as well.
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Australia are going to batter us into the ground here.
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Lyth drops Warner, not good enough.
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Hard to see how we're not going to lose this one.
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Broad's and Wood's pace is well down.
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When we are under pressure the fielding is just not good. Too many chances put down this summer. Lyth is having a stinker.
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This has been a pretty poor display. Poor first innings with the bat and the bowling has lack penetration.
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It's a bit worrying about how slow our pace bowlers are bowling, but it's probably because the batsmen gave them very little rest. We're going to lose this game short of a miracle batting performance in the second innings, so we need to try and take some positives into the third Test. That means Lyth, Ballance, Bell and Buttler doing a lot better with the bat.
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Rogers dropped on 0
Smith on 50
Warner on 4
Over 400 runs from 3 drops.
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If the Rogers 'drop' was the Root chance I think that's stretching it a bit to describe it as such!
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Yeah the Root one was a half chance at best, but Smith and Warmer should have been caught. The bowlers really need to hit the pitch harder, not that it matters now. We've just got to bat a lot better in the second innings.
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We need the top order to do a lot better. We've been finding ourselves 3/4 down for less than 50 on a regular basis. It's not good enough.
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We need to stop producing flat slow wickets. They don't benefit us at all, all they do is make medium fast bowlers ineffective. It's bloody stupid. You can't set up wickets because you fear the opposition. You back your team to perform.
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We need to stop producing flat slow wickets. They don't benefit us at all, all they do is make medium fast bowlers ineffective. It's bloody stupid. You can't set up wickets because you fear the opposition. You back your team to perform.
They are coming under fire from all quarters for this policy, and it will be interesting to see if they persist with it. If they do, then I predict that the Edgbaston pitch will make this Lords strip seem like Trent Bridge when they had Richard Hadlee.
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I really haven't seen much of Lyth but based on what I have this Summer he looks no where near good enough.
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He looks a bit flaky to me, but I think he should be given until the end of the series.
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They ballsed up massively by not playing Lyth in the West Indies, he would either have scored a load of runs and gone into the summer full of confidence or struggled and they'd be trying somebody out against New Zealand.
He's had a poor couple of innings and the dropped catch won't have helped but I've seen a lot of him at Yorkshire where he's a class batsman and a superb slip fielder, hope he comes good, it's not that long ago he scored a century against New Zealand.
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Yep let's hope so. But I always thought Robson looked class for Middlesex and he got a good hundred too. Hopefully Lyth won't fall away like he has.
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This pitch is still desperately dead. Being out for 300 on it is pretty awful
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This pitch is still desperately dead. Being out for 300 on it is pretty awful
That's all about the scoreboard pressure though chasing 500+ does funny things to people and when you've got a few struggling for form in there as well it's always going to be a problem
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Our top order tends to struggle even without scoreboard pressure in fairness.
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We can inflict a little mental damage on Clarke if we can knock him over cheaply.
I just hope we make them work hard in our 2nd innings, no confidence sapping capitulations please. A draw would feel like a win so although it's a huge long shot this Test could work out for us. If you recall we were in a far worse position in Brisbane in 2010 and this pitch is better than that one was.
Massive innings ahead for Lyth in particular.
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Missing a trick a little here Engand. Clarke is an excellent player of spin and is well out of nick. So why on earth would you bowl Moen and Root.
We've only got 10 overs left in the innings, don't give him an easy ride. Get Broad and Anderson on and try and knock him over, keep the Skippers confidence down. We're effectively letting him have a centre wicket net session. If they're worried about Anderson creating rough for Lyon then bowl him from the Nursary End.
Also takes longer to bowl the overs than them just milking the Spinners for 5/7 runs an over.
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No problems, will have them runs knocked off by tea
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It's a terrible cricket wicket.
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Poor again from Lyth.
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I sense a complete capitulation again.
Surely Lyth's place must be massively under threat. 1 good innings and 7 failures so far in test cricket
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Hales
Cook
Root
Pietersen
Bell
Stokes
Buttler
Ali / Rashid
Broad
Wood
Anderson
That would be my thinking for the 3rd test. Obviously Pietersen won't happen, but we really need to shake the top order up. They've been getting away with failure for too long now.
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Lyth fails again then.
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Lyth fails again then.
From what he's shown so far, he just looks short of quality at this level. I know he scored a hundred against NZ, but that was scratchy and unconvincing.
His record for Yorkshire is decent, but averaging 42 in FC is hardly otherworldly
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That was pathetic from Cook, it really was.
Looks like we're not even going to make Australia work for their wickets
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Terrible from the top order yet again.
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Can't afford to give wickets away again. Bloody poor
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So how many runs will we lose by? I'm going for 265.
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Fuck it. Im not watching this shower of ******. The golfs on
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The top order continually fail, time for changes.
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So how many runs will we lose by? I'm going for 265.
Think this will be over by end of play today. The changes the Aussies have made have worked well for them and Marsh's bowling has been pretty impressive. There is no way we would have made changes like they did after one test, we just bumble along with the same players making the same mistakes.
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1-3 is not working I think we either need to move the order around or make a change.
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BAYLISS OUT!
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Send Lyth back to his county and nick Lees off 'em
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Send Lyth back to his county and nick Lees off 'em
[/quote
Woofles? About time some other counties started providing players, the in form Yorkshire batsmen are Leaning and Bairstow.
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I think the top 4 does need a change of some description, as it keeps failing as a unit.
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>:(
1-3 is not working I think we either need to move the order around or make a change.
Agree. I think bringing a right hander in to partner Cook could help as the current top three are all left handlers which allows bowlers to settle on a line. As for who that would be, Hales would be in with a shout or we could go back to someone like Compton.
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The Stokes run out one of the most moronic dismissals I've ever seen, one of the first things you're taught as a child is to ground your bat.
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It's a terrible cricket wicket.
And we get what we deserve for trying to produce an anti-cricket wicket rather than one to suit our bowlers.
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Yep, ironically by producing these types of pitches we play into their hands because their bowlers are 5mph quicker than ours.
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This has been a cataclysmicly poor display. It's that bad that they'll have to make changes now. Utterly awful.
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To be 60-5 on this pitch shows a lack of pride, as well as fight.
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Our bowling has also been pathetic as well. Buttler gone as well, terrible shot. This is truly dire.
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This is the complete antithesis of Cardiff. It's been spineless and pathetic. I'd look at Bairstow and Hales.
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Terrible Ali.
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This is a total disgrace, the opener Balance and Bell must be looking at being binned. Bowling wise, are we that good as well? At least Finn can bully the batsmen. Why did they not just play their normal game instead of feebly giving in
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This is the complete antithesis of Cardiff. It's been spineless and pathetic. I'd look at Bairstow and Hales.
Maybe Bairstow but not Hales for test cricket. Bairstow 104* v Pears today, i'd bring in Alex Lees with him
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Our bowling was very weak and the batting has been woeful. It's a stunning turn around from Cardiff.
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We'll keep Bairstow at Yorkshire thanks, another century for him today.
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This is the complete antithesis of Cardiff. It's been spineless and pathetic. I'd look at Bairstow and Hales.
Maybe Bairstow but not Hales for test cricket. Bairstow 104* v Pears today, i'd bring in Alex Lees with him
Why not Hales for test cricket? Warner is hardly your traditional opener, but he's bloody successful
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Our bowling was very weak and the batting has been woeful. It's a stunning turn around from Cardiff.
Their massive first innings total meant we were always up against it. Despite the awful performance here, I think I would have taken 1-1 going into Edgbaston.
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101-9 just awful
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To be honest given the pitch this is possibly the worst collective England display I've seen.
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Our bowling was very weak and the batting has been woeful. It's a stunning turn around from Cardiff.
Their massive first innings total meant we were always up against it. Despite the awful performance here, I think I would have taken 1-1 going into Edgbaston.
Don't agree, this has been an insipid display, totally devoid of any backbone.
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To be honest given the pitch this is possibly the worst collective England display I've seen.
To be honest Paul, you say that at least once just about every series they play!
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Thing is this has nothing to do with our attempts to play a more positive style. This is just back to the worst type of England.
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This is the complete antithesis of Cardiff. It's been spineless and pathetic. I'd look at Bairstow and Hales.
Maybe Bairstow but not Hales for test cricket. Bairstow 104* v Pears today, i'd bring in Alex Lees with him
Why not Hales for test cricket? Warner is hardly your traditional opener, but he's bloody successful
In terms of first class averages there's not a lot of difference both averaging around 38 but at only 22 i think that Lees has got the greater potential
and that maybe at 27 Hales should have already 'cracked' it. Problem with Hales is i suppose he is perceived as on one day player.
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Our bowling was very weak and the batting has been woeful. It's a stunning turn around from Cardiff.
Their massive first innings total meant we were always up against it. Despite the awful performance here, I think I would have taken 1-1 going into Edgbaston.
Don't agree, this has been an insipid display, totally devoid of any backbone.
Yep, really poor effort. Only lasted 37 overs.
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That was a truly spineless display. Terrible.
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Shocking absolutely shocking.
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Anderson was very disappointing here as well.
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Anderson was very disappointing here as well.
Is he living a bit on reputation?
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That was a fucking disgrace.
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I'm very disappointed with this result, just hope that there is something within the coaches and the players that can turn this round.
I'm going to the first 4 days at Edgbaston....will it last that long.
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It better. I have tickets for day four!
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England really need to get Bairstow in, why not replace Josh Buttler....he ain't exactly pulling any trees up is he.
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It better. I have tickets for day four!
And me. Fingers crossed for a repeat of the first Test!
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England really need to get Bairstow in, why not replace Josh Buttler....he ain't exactly pulling any trees up is he.
Buttler isn't pulling up trees, but he's young and talented and has performed in recent times. I think if you were to drop one player it would be Bell.
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Absolutely shit. Lyth looks terrible.
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Just had a look through some older posts and I'm bloody glad none of you lot are selectors! Root, Ballance, Broad, Cook, Anderson and Bairstow are amongst those who either haven't been up to the job and need dropping or simply aren't good enough for Test cricket!
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England really need to get Bairstow in, why not replace Josh Buttler....he ain't exactly pulling any trees up is he.
Buttler isn't pulling up trees, but he's young and talented and has performed in recent times. I think if you were to drop one player it would be Bell.
Bell is the one experienced player among the batters, Cook aside, i know he is struggling currently but i can't see him being dropped before his 'home' test.
If Lyth is retained then leave out Ballance possibly bring Root up to 3 and bring in Bairstow at 5
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Just had a look through some older posts and I'm bloody glad none of you lot are selectors! Root, Ballance, Broad, Cook, Anderson and Bairstow are amongst those who either haven't been up to the job and need dropping or simply aren't good enough for Test cricket!
I still hold that all too often Broad and Anderson don't work as a pair. I like both of them but we'll always have games where we look toothless because bad conditions for one are bad for the other as well. Bairstow I like but I think England went a long way towards ruining him by making him carry drinks for 18months without letting him hold a bat. I don't think I've slated the other 2 but I may have criticised Root a few years back when he had a run of games where his strike rate was 35-40% which for me puts undue pressure on the guy at the other end.
I'll hold my hand up and say I'm far from convinced by Lyth so far, some batsmen take to international cricket and some don't and I think he may be in the latter group, I have no idea how we replace him though.
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Wood needs to be rested
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Wood needs to be rested
Who for, i don't disagree he hasn't had a long first class career 30+ matches so test after test will take its toll. So who do you replace him with
Plunkett/ Woakes, only CW's 2nd game back after injury, Footitt maybe after all they took him to Spain didn't they...took a fifer today i believe.
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Thing is inevitable to post about people being dropped etc during a game as it's emotive, no different from a Vills match thread. However there are two major concerns that are clear. Firstly why our bowlers were so ineffective when the Aussies ripped through us. Secondly the top order is not working, it is consistently getting us into trouble. Of that top order Bell and Ballance have been out of form for a while. One of them needs to be replaced.
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We'll keep Bairstow at Yorkshire thanks, another century for him today.
Yorkshire look like the type of side that have an excellent team with solid County players who arn't quite good enough at Test level. Lyth, Ballance and Bairstow all fall into this category. A bit like a Worcs were in the late 80's early 90's with Curtis, Radford, Illingworth and Hick.
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Thats the type of defeat that, unless you are a very good side, it's very difficult to come back from.
It's a big decision to change wholesale the top order but I just cant see how Lyth or Ballance can survive at the moment, both look woefully out of nick and the Aussies are all over them.
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England really need to get Bairstow in, why not replace Josh Buttler....he ain't exactly pulling any trees up is he.
Buttler isn't pulling up trees, but he's young and talented and has performed in recent times. I think if you were to drop one player it would be Bell.
Bell is the one experienced player among the batters, Cook aside, i know he is struggling currently but i can't see him being dropped before his 'home' test.
If Lyth is retained then leave out Ballance possibly bring Root up to 3 and bring in Bairstow at 5
Caught a bit of Warne and Botham discussing possible selections for the next test.
Warne went with: Cook, Lyth, Bell, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Rashid, Broad, Wood, Anderson
Botham went with: Cook, Lyth, Root, Bell, Stokes, Ali, Buttler, Rashid, Broad, Wood, Anderson
Both advocated keeping the same opening partnership, dropping Ballance and bringing Rashid in. I would prefer Botham's line up out of the two, but would like to see a right hander come in to partner Cook at the top of the order.
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Wood needs to be rested
Who for, i don't disagree he hasn't had a long first class career 30+ matches so test after test will take its toll. So who do you replace him with
Plunkett/ Woakes, only CW's 2nd game back after injury, Footitt maybe after all they took him to Spain didn't they...took a fifer today i believe.
His pace was 10 mph down on Cardiff........I would bring in either Finn, Footitt or Plunkett
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Wood needs to work on his stamina, because he can't be losing as much pace as he didid between the first and second innings. But hopefully a week's rest will help him on that front. Something does need to change though, because we can't keep going with 3 of the top 4 getting no runs.
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Wood needs to work on his stamina, because he can't be losing as much pace as he didid between the first and second innings. But hopefully a week's rest will help him on that front. Something does need to change though, because we can't keep going with 3 of the top 4 getting no runs.
Depending on what the pitch at Edgbaston is like, I would pretty much go with the team Botham selected above with Hales possibly coming in for Lyth and Plunkett or Finn in for Wood.
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On reflection I'm going to go with Bairstow in for Ballance, moving Bell to 3 and Root to 4. If I were the selectors I'd make clear to Bell that this is his last chance and he needs to take responsibility. Ballance can come back in the future, but he needs to sort out his technique. I'd keep the bowling the same and hope the pitch is better, because on a seaming pitch I reckon we could do some damage.
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Glad to see Taylor get a timely double hundred, who although he hasn't been in the best of form this year is criminally overlooked by England time and again.
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It's the first Womens Ashes ODI this morning at Taunton where Aussies won the toss and batted and are currently 40-3 13 overs.
I do enjoy watching the womens games as generally the skills levels of the teams are roughly the same - no huge disparities which make for closer
games. Good start by England in this one.
Wrong thread - Bears 19-1
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Hong Kong have just beaten Afghanistan in a thrilling game in ICC T20 qualifiers they required 16 off the last over and off first ball
lost their main man came down to 2 off last ball which they got....so HK have now qualified for T20 World Cup in India along with Scotland and Ireland.
In ODI Ashes womens game Aussies are 196-5 43.4 overs
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Jonny Bairstow replaces Gary Ballance in the England squad.
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Jonny Bairstow replaces Gary Ballance in the England squad.
BBC also saying that Bell is likely to bat at 3.
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Won't that upset the balance of the side?
Sorry!
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Jonny Bairstow replaces Gary Ballance in the England squad.
BBC also saying that Bell is likely to bat at 3.
The last time Ian Bell batted at 3 he scored 235 against India at the Oval........too much to hope for a repeat!!
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It's the right decision at this stage. Bell now knows he has to perform and we don't have 3 left handers in the top 3. Ballance needs to go away, get his form back and work on his technique a bit.
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On reflection I'm going to go with Bairstow in for Ballance, moving Bell to 3 and Root to 4. If I were the selectors I'd make clear to Bell that this is his last chance and he needs to take responsibility. Ballance can come back in the future, but he needs to sort out his technique. I'd keep the bowling the same and hope the pitch is better, because on a seaming pitch I reckon we could do some damage.
Blimey Paul, you friends with Bayliss on Facebook?!!
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Ha well clearly they've taken my input on board!
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I know Bairstow is in better form, but technically is he better than Ballance? I've not seen much of Ballance apart from England games.
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I know Bairstow is in better form, but technically is he better than Ballance? I've not seen much of Ballance apart from England games.
I think at the moment he is technically superior. Ballance doesn't appear to be watching the ball correctly at the moment.
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I know Bairstow is in better form, but technically is he better than Ballance? I've not seen much of Ballance apart from England games.
Bairstow has worked on his technique a lot. He used to bring that bat down at an angle, but now it's coming down straight.
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I liked the way Have I got New For You announced his call up on Twitter.
England cricket selectors call up Jonny Bairstow in a desperate attempt to stop Yorkshire winning the County Championship.
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Another half century for Bairstow, 63 not out, Yorkshire 138 for 3 requring 157 for victory.
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Yorkshire won, Bairstow 74 no off 51 balls.
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I am going to the first day at Edgbaston, hopefully they will have some decent ales on. Knowing how frail our batting is what would you do if we won the toss?
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Bat.
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Always bat.
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Nine times out of ten you bat.
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look at the pitch, look at the sky think about bowling....and then bat first....
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Or Mitchell Johnson could tread on a cricket ball and do his ankle in. Following this, Australia win the toss and Clarke opts to bowl and England knock out a 100 opening stand before lunch.
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Or Mitchell Johnson could tread on a cricket ball and do his ankle in. Following this, Australia win the toss and Clarke opts to bowl and England knock out a 100 opening stand before lunch.
That would make the best start to a test at Edgbaston for about 10 years!
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Aussies won the toss and are batting. Massive session for England coming up.
Aussies unchanged and Finn is in for Wood.
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Bad toss to lose that, really bad. We need Finn to fire here.
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Sat by the pool in Vietnam listening to TMS and the perfect start. But we need 2 or 3 this session.
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That is huge for Finn and England.
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2 really good wickets, Warner went for as bad a review as you'll see all series, it was absolutely plum. Smith went to a lovely delivery from Finn. Get one more so we're into their mid order early and this could turn out well for us.
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Clarke gone !!! yorked !! 3 down...
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and there it is on cue, another beauty from Finn to get Clarke.
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Well, this is going quite well.
Also, good the hear Victor on TMS
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As a side we don't use the yorker anything like enough, I get that it's a risky delivery but when you see one clatter the stumps like that you do have to wonder why so many bowlers won't even attempt them.
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Finn is on it now.
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Am I allowed to ask if there are any streams showing it? Apologies if I'm breaking rules..
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Sat by the pool in Vietnam listening to TMS and the perfect start. But we need 2 or 3 this session.
What platform are you listening on Paul? Whenever I try and access TMS abroad from either the Iplayer radio or an app like Tune-in radio, I get a licence restriction message. Are you listening via one of the Aussie stations?
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Glad they're coming back out, that was a rubbish time for a rain break, we need to give them both barrels for 25minutes now.
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I presumed there was going to be a rain break as it went very dark out of the office window earlier. Brightened up now mind.
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I presumed there was going to be a rain break as it went very dark out of the office window earlier. Brightened up now mind.
Pissing down in 'Nam, so hopefully the weather's not moving north
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Great start to the afternoon session - 82-5. Need to get Rogers soon!
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Yeah I agree, Rogers is the key to them getting 200+ here, if we can get him soon this could be a very low score.
Finn has been superb today, the bowling attack has selection headache written all over it with Woakes and Wood both in the mix along with the 4 quicks on the pitch.
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BOOOOOM ! 6 down :)
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Yeah I agree, Rogers is the key to them getting 200+ here, if we can get him soon this could be a very low score.
Finn has been superb today, the bowling attack has selection headache written all over it with Woakes and Wood both in the mix along with the 4 quicks on the pitch.
We need to keep them fit. I really hope Wood isn't about to become another Simon Jones. Jones was a wonderful bowler whose career was ruined by injury. Wood looks like he has something special so we need to keep him fit.
Another one for Jimmy 86-6.
I'm not getting excited until we've batted!
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Can't let them get out of this now. We could put ourselves in a winning position at the end of our 1st innings.
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obviously how we perform will be telling but I think I'd put this down to good bowling rather than a poor pitch, the spell from Finn earlier and this spell from Anderson has been brilliant.
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What I'd really like to see in this test is a ton from Bell. Not only to protect his place in the side but also for him to become the first Bear to score a century for England in an Edgbaston test match.
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7 down and a 5-fer for Jimmy
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What I'd really like to see in this test is a ton from Bell. Not only to protect his place in the side but also for him to become the first Bear to score a century for England in an Edgbaston test match.
agreed he is a class player but it would great to see him get a ton...
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Sharp shower passed Bearwood five minutes ago. Gone as quick as it came. Don't panic.
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Sharp shower passed Bearwood five minutes ago. Gone as quick as it came. Don't panic.
Just going off now, 99-7
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Rogers....review.......GONE !!! 110-8 down :)
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and there's 9, this isn't what anyone expected. 119-9 and, in my opinion, not many demons in the pitch.
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and there's 9, this isn't what anyone expected. 119-9 and, in my opinion, not many demons in the pitch.
let's finish them off now....then get batting for 2 days :)
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and there's 9, this isn't what anyone expected. 119-9 and, in my opinion, not many demons in the pitch.
let's finish them off now....then get batting for 2 days :)
Yeah, my apologies to anyone with tickets for tomorrow and Friday, but I hope you're bored rigid as we risklessly pile on a 350 lead by Friday tea. That'd set my Saturday up beautifully.
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136 all out.Anderson 6-37.
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I wish I could trust our batting lineup enough to believe we will end up with a first innings lead, but I'm not so sure....
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wobbly from Lyth.... :o :o :o
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Stunning day so far, we need to capitalise.
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Why did Lyth have a swipe at that? No need at all.
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Bunch of twunts on social media printing the Aussie scorecard out and taking photos of it.
Don't think they know the game too well.
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Lyth is becoming a real worry. It's not so much the low scores it's the way he's getting out. He keeps making the same mistakes rather like Robson did. Although they're different players they both seem to struggle with learning from their errors.
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Why did Lyth have a swipe at that? No need at all.
Lost his patience, which is pretty frustrating because we had made exactly the right start and really should have been looking at getting to the end of the day with 70-80 for nothing on the board, I'm prepared to pop my head up and say this pitch is a hell of a lot better than 136 all out and hopefully we will show just how far short of par they were.
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Unbelievable catch to get Cook out.
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Come on Belly!
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Come on Belly!
Sorry Ian, kiss of death.
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Lyon's only bowled 10 balls and he has two wickets
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Bit annoying to lose Cook and Bell, but we're still in a position that not many England fans would have dreamed of before the start of play.
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England's day for sure, now push on tomorrow, Edgbaston looks lovely as usual.
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Root will be the difference. He will smack a ton with 30-50 from Buttler, Stokes and Ali. Not as big as it could be but plenty enough to see us take an unassailable first innings lead.
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Shame Bell fell, he could have done with a really big score. My worry is now that we'll struggle to get past 200.
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Nah, Root will fire and we will knock around 350.
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Shame Bell fell, he could have done with a really big score. My worry is now that we'll struggle to get past 200.
Given that our middle order is where our strength and form is I think that's unlikely. It's also supposed to be much more batting friendly conditions tomorrow, I think they'll be eyeing up a lead of 200-300 right now.
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Shame Bell fell, he could have done with a really big score. My worry is now that we'll struggle to get past 200.
Given that our middle order is where our strength and form is I think that's unlikely. It's also supposed to be much more batting friendly conditions tomorrow, I think they'll be eyeing up a lead of 200-300 right now.
It's the England cricket team, it's not THAT unlikely. You don't have to go very far back into the annals of history to see a shit score from the middle order!
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We need to make sure our resident worrier stays in Vietnam for the rest of the series!
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Shame Bell fell, he could have done with a really big score. My worry is now that we'll struggle to get past 200.
Given that our middle order is where our strength and form is I think that's unlikely. It's also supposed to be much more batting friendly conditions tomorrow, I think they'll be eyeing up a lead of 200-300 right now.
It's the England cricket team, it's not THAT unlikely. You don't have to go very far back into the annals of history to see a shit score from the middle order!
True, but Root, Bairstow and Stokes are all in the form of their life and Buttler and Moeen are good for a decent knock as well. I agree that it's possible but it would be a massive shock.
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Blue sky and glorious sunshine in Stourbridge at the moment.
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We need to make sure our resident worrier stays in Vietnam for the rest of the series!
Ha yes! Very good day yesterday, shame about Cook getting out very unluckily and Bell getting out right at the end. But we should hopefully be able to get a 150-200 lead if we bat well. Fingers crossed.
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Today's play will give us an indication of where the Urn will end up this year. If we bat sensibly and bat well then we can bat them out of the game and give ourselves an opportunity to go 2-1 up with two to play. If we don't and we let them back into the match then I fear they will go on and win the series.
It's been a fascinating series so far. The results in the first two tests were heavily influenced by the toss. This test is different because I'm sure Cook would have batted if he'd have won the toss.
It's vital that we bat well and give ourselves a big chance of regaining the Ashes. There will be a few more twists and turns still to come but come on England!
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Michael Holding looks to have a claret and blue tie on today.
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Michael Holding looks to have a claret and blue tie on today.
Is his middle name Jordan?
Is he doing anything on August 8th?
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It's been a fascinating series so far. The results in the first two tests were heavily influenced by the toss. This test is different because I'm sure Cook would have batted if he'd have won the toss.
Listening to TMS yesterday, I think that the only person who would have considered putting the opposition in was Geoffrey
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Good start by the Aussies, those deliveries from Johnson were brutal.
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Christ what a diabolical start for us. We need Buttler to turn up now.
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Good start by the Aussies, those deliveries from Johnson were brutal.
Just get out the way!
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Shame Bell fell, he could have done with a really big score. My worry is now that we'll struggle to get past 200.
Given that our middle order is where our strength and form is I think that's unlikely. It's also supposed to be much more batting friendly conditions tomorrow, I think they'll be eyeing up a lead of 200-300 right now.
It's the England cricket team, it's not THAT unlikely. You don't have to go very far back into the annals of history to see a shit score from the middle order!
True, but Root, Bairstow and Stokes are all in the form of their life and Buttler and Moeen are good for a decent knock as well. I agree that it's possible but it would be a massive shock.
Ahem. You were saying?! I stand by my original point.
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I've a horrible feeling we'll really be regretting this session in about a months time.
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That's a really poor way to get out from Root. We've got to try and get the lead up to 100.
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Lyon again
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Buttler should have reviewed that one. Missing the stumps
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Notice from the BBC feed that as soon as Bairstow was out some idiot was demanding he be dropped, do they realise he might have to bat again in this match?
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But similar to Lyth and Ballance I'm afraid he's not good enough. If they are all legitimately the best players England have to open and bat in the middle order then things are in a bad way batting talent wise.
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Shame Bell fell, he could have done with a really big score. My worry is now that we'll struggle to get past 200.
Given that our middle order is where our strength and form is I think that's unlikely. It's also supposed to be much more batting friendly conditions tomorrow, I think they'll be eyeing up a lead of 200-300 right now.
It's the England cricket team, it's not THAT unlikely. You don't have to go very far back into the annals of history to see a shit score from the middle order!
True, but Root, Bairstow and Stokes are all in the form of their life and Buttler and Moeen are good for a decent knock as well. I agree that it's possible but it would be a massive shock.
Ahem. You were saying?! I stand by my original point.
As I said, it was always possible but it would be a shock, and as we've passed 200 despite a horrible morning I was right.
Not sure why Buttler didn't review, even if they thought he was gone that's the last 'big' wicket and in hindsight it would've saved him, pretty disappointing decision to walk off.
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Poor from Buttler and doubly so not to review.
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Shame Bell fell, he could have done with a really big score. My worry is now that we'll struggle to get past 200.
Given that our middle order is where our strength and form is I think that's unlikely. It's also supposed to be much more batting friendly conditions tomorrow, I think they'll be eyeing up a lead of 200-300 right now.
It's the England cricket team, it's not THAT unlikely. You don't have to go very far back into the annals of history to see a shit score from the middle order!
True, but Root, Bairstow and Stokes are all in the form of their life and Buttler and Moeen are good for a decent knock as well. I agree that it's possible but it would be a massive shock.
Ahem. You were saying?! I stand by my original point.
As I said, it was always possible but it would be a shock, and as we've passed 200 despite a horrible morning I was right.
But you said "a lead of 200-300". We currently lead by 73.
I hope you're right but it's premature to claim you were right to be fair.
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Anyone with a ticket for Saturday is going to be disappointed at this rate.
How is their non-spinning spinner getting so much out of a "seaming" wicket? Big second Aussie innings for Moeen and Root then.
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Lyon's underrated IMO. He's hugely improved in the last year. He got some confidence in his bowling and his record is pretty decent these days.
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Shame Bell fell, he could have done with a really big score. My worry is now that we'll struggle to get past 200.
Given that our middle order is where our strength and form is I think that's unlikely. It's also supposed to be much more batting friendly conditions tomorrow, I think they'll be eyeing up a lead of 200-300 right now.
It's the England cricket team, it's not THAT unlikely. You don't have to go very far back into the annals of history to see a shit score from the middle order!
True, but Root, Bairstow and Stokes are all in the form of their life and Buttler and Moeen are good for a decent knock as well. I agree that it's possible but it would be a massive shock.
Ahem. You were saying?! I stand by my original point.
As I said, it was always possible but it would be a shock, and as we've passed 200 despite a horrible morning I was right.
But you said "a lead of 200-300". We currently lead by 73.
I hope you're right but it's premature to claim you were right to be fair.
No i said being out for less than 200 was unlikely and that they'd be eyeing up a big lead, which would've been true this morning and we've passed 200 so I was right, I'm disappointed that we're not going to have a massive lead but if we can bowl well we could have them a few wickets down before they catch up, getting Rogers or Smith cheaply is the key, they're the 2 form bowlers for them.
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A lead of 150 would be very good. Tail enders need to support Ali. Batting will be easier in the afternoon.
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Ali and Broad have done well, if we could get another 50 runs we'd be in a great position.
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But similar to Lyth and Ballance I'm afraid he's not good enough. If they are all legitimately the best players England have to open and bat in the middle order then things are in a bad way batting talent wise.
I didn't see the delivery but evidently it was a bit of a snorter, enough to demand he is dropped already?
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Poor from Buttler and doubly so not to review.
If Buttler does nothing in the 2nd innings taxi required.
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150 run lead and England will win.
(Not exactly going out on a limb there, I know)
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That was a tense session. We need to get the lead over 100, anything above that will be a huge bonus.
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Lead up to 110, looking at how these 2 are batting and how poor Starc and Hazlewood are bowling I don't think 300 is beyond us here, which would be an excellent lead and would probably give us 30-40 minutes to bowl before tea.
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150 run lead and England will win.
(Not exactly going out on a limb there, I know)
You could be as there is a lot of time left in this match. They could bat for 5/6 sessions and get a lead of 350....
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Could do with some good batting performances coming up, some of us have tickets to day for of this Test match :-[
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Lead getting close to "healthy". Anything above 150 would be a bonus.
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Shame to see Broad go but I'm not going to fault him, he's played a big part in that partnership and was trying to push us along.
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Lead getting close to "healthy". Anything above 150 would be a bonus.
well Broad goes with a lead of about 140 at the moment...
UTV
The Doc
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All done at 281.
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all done for 281 and a lead of 145 then. Disappointing that Moeen went so soon after Broad, he needed to take a bit more responsibility there for me but again, as with Broad, if you number 8 is part of a 80+ partnership in a low scoring game it's harsh to be critical.
Key thing now is to get a couple of wickets before tea. If we can do that this is our game to lose.
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Rogers wasted his 15 seconds there!!
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Rogers wasted his 15 seconds there!!
They're lucky he did.
Massive wicket that, get one of this pair as well and this is comfortably our session.
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Need to get Warner soon or the lead will be gone before we know it.
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Get in there Finn! Have some mental scars, Smith.
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FFS Aussies need to get a grip here. I have a £66 ticket for tomorrow and I would like Ian Bell to hit the winning runs at exactly 6.15 tomorrow evening and not a second earlier!
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I have tickets for Saturday. I'm not going to need them am I?
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FFS Aussies need to get a grip here. I have a £66 ticket for tomorrow and I would like Ian Bell to hit the winning runs at exactly 6.15 tomorrow evening and not a second earlier!
Um, I wouldn't fancy England chasing anything over 3 figures. If we still need to be batting tomorrow at 6.15pm, we're finished!
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Another vital knock from Moeen. We need 4/5 down 150.
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I have tickets for Saturday. I'm not going to need them am I?
So have I , trip to Nottingham might be in order
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I have tickets for Saturday. I'm not going to need them am I?
Play on Saturday would be bad news for England based on current score.
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FFS Aussies need to get a grip here. I have a £66 ticket for tomorrow and I would like Ian Bell to hit the winning runs at exactly 6.15 tomorrow evening and not a second earlier!
Um, I wouldn't fancy England chasing anything over 3 figures. If we still need to be batting tomorrow at 6.15pm, we're finished!
Really? So you think England will struggle to get say 150?
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Woo hoo!!
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FFS Aussies need to get a grip here. I have a £66 ticket for tomorrow and I would like Ian Bell to hit the winning runs at exactly 6.15 tomorrow evening and not a second earlier!
Um, I wouldn't fancy England chasing anything over 3 figures. If we still need to be batting tomorrow at 6.15pm, we're finished!
Really? So you think England will struggle to get say 150?
Oh yes. That's why we're much better off trying to win by an innings here!
As I type, Neil'n'Tim is on a hattrick. Excellent, one end opened up now.
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Could be a two day Test match.
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I've got a ticket for tomorrow. At this rate I'll have seen longer Twenty-20s.
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FFS you useless bunch of cnuts...get some F in runs on the board!
Joking aside this is bad news for WCCC with loss of at least two days revenue.
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I've got a ticket for tomorrow. At this rate I'll have seen longer Twenty-20s.
Let me know what else we could do tomorrow? I was thinking may be a pedalo in Cannon Hill Park pond followed by a visit to the Nature centre?
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Finn is really back.
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That delivery to get Marsh is a beauty. Not brilliant batting but he set him up for it and then timed it perfectly to angle one back in.
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Any scars opening in relation to Steven Finn Aussies?!
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If Finn keeps this up then there will be, the over right now to Nevill is unplayable.
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Warner gone!
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Huge wicket.
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I have tickets for Saturday. I'm not going to need them am I?
So have I , trip to Nottingham might be in order
i
My thoughts exactly!
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I have tickets for Saturday. I'm not going to need them am I?
So have I , trip to Nottingham might be in order
i
My thoughts exactly!
I can see a mass migration from Birmingham to Nottingham that Calais would be proud of
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I've got tickets for Saturday too..just rang the ticket office..there's 60 left..between ourselves
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A great day, though it's gone a bit flat with Jimmy going off. Hope that isn't the last f him this series.
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Got him!
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Two remarkable days test cricket. The stand between Moeen and Broad was vital and Finn's bowling was sublime. I genuinely hope he takes the final three wickets because he deserves a 10-fer.
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Two remarkable days test cricket. The stand between Moeen and Broad was vital and Finn's bowling was sublime. I genuinely hope he takes the final three wickets because he deserves a 10-fer.
So does Jimmy though, his bowling in the first innings was unplayable and set this all up.
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Absolutely. The right conditions and pitch and he is unplayable.
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But similar to Lyth and Ballance I'm afraid he's not good enough. If they are all legitimately the best players England have to open and bat in the middle order then things are in a bad way batting talent wise.
I didn't see the delivery but evidently it was a bit of a snorter, enough to demand he is dropped already?
Not saying Bairstow should be dropped. Just saying if he's the best we've got to bat at 5 then we're in a heap of trouble because he just isn't good enough.
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Brilliant to see Finn back, hopefully we'll wrap it up now. Moeen and Broad's partnership was critical.
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Anyone who thinks this match is done and dusted has never watched the England cricket team before. I hope a refreshed bowling attack gets the last three wickets double quick, but let's say the tailenders throw the bat at it and put on another 100, it will be a really tense chase.
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Presumably (hopefully) will wrap this test up before lunch today. It's good that the next test is at Trent Bridge where another typically English pitch should suit our attack with or without Jimmy.
I thought the Aussies bowled badly yesterday. Johnson's first over was as hostile as I've seen since the days of the West Indian pace attacks. He got wickets with two snorters in three balls but then hardly bowled another bouncer all day. They are really missing Ryan Harris, he'd have been a handful on typically English pitches. Clarke is woefully out of form and the knives will be out for him in the media back home.
What a turn around from Lords!
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Let's hope we wrap this up nice and quick and Jimmy's injury isn't too bad. Finn finally being back to his best is great.
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Absolutely. The right conditions and pitch and he is unplayable.
but this isn't an Anderson wicket, he is, at his very best, a swing bowler and this is a seaming wicket, he did well because he's very good at scrambled seam deliveries (which isn't a standard part of swing bowling) and he hit good spots on the pitch. This goes back to the discussion about him a couple of months ago, lots of people see him as only having delivered on pitches that suit him but whenever he bowls well they just says it's his type of pitch without watching what he's done.
Where he really struggles is on dead pitches where his lack of express pace is exposed, like Lords last week but for me he has that as a weakness rather than having a reliance on swinging conditions which is the criticism he regularly gets.
I don't know if that's what you were getting at but I just find it frustrating that English cricket fans feel the need to say 'look at Jimmy's stats, must've been a pitch that suited him' rather than 'look at Jimmy's stats, he must've had a brilliant day' I can't think of many other top bowlers where that happens.
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Jimmy is an absolutely brilliant bowler full stop.
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We don't want to be chasing anything over 120 here, so let's hope we knock them over quick.
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Jimmy is an absolutely brilliant bowler full stop.
Absolutely
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Well in my seat in Raglan. For the amount of cricket £66 steep but to sit here and watch Aussies humiliation PRICELESS!
Wooooooo....bring them on!
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If Broad gets a wicket he'll have 2000 runs and 300 wickets in test cricket and be just the 13th player to get there, with Johnson becoming the 12th player to get there earlier in the match.
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Gah, runs coming too easily.
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Come on England knock these over. Jimmy out of next Test is a big blow. Hopefully Wood will be fit, but I wonder if Rushworth is a shout. I reckon he could be very good on a ground that swings.
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Aussies having an obscene amount of luck this morning.
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England boys look as though they can straight here from a night out at Bushwackers!
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Come on England knock these over. Jimmy out of next Test is a big blow. Hopefully Wood will be fit, but I wonder if Rushworth is a shout. I reckon he could be very good on a ground that swings.
Surely Woakes is first in line if Jimmy is out, he's been in the team and done well enough to keep his place and has good figures since he came back.
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Come on England knock these over. Jimmy out of next Test is a big blow. Hopefully Wood will be fit, but I wonder if Rushworth is a shout. I reckon he could be very good on a ground that swings.
What about Onions?
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Umpire way too quick to shake his head.
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Starting to get a (slightly) bad feeling
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Australia having all the luck here. Come on England.
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Starting to get a (slightly) bad feeling
Yep, bastard Aussies. All this talk of "on the verge of victory" last night was premature. It's not enough to have the Aussies down, you need to cut the head off and burn the corpse to make absolutely sure they won't get back up again.
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Poor umpiring there.
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Starting to get a (slightly) bad feeling
Nah, we're bowling ok, just need something to go our way (like the umpire giving that one that clipped Nevill's glove) and I think the bowlers will really get a boost and go after them. We're missing Jimmy though because he's the one we go to in situations like this.
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Starting to get a (slightly) bad feeling
Nah, we're bowling ok, just need something to go our way (like the umpire giving that one that clipped Nevill's glove) and I think the bowlers will really get a boost and go after them. We're missing Jimmy though because he's the one we go to in situations like this.
Yeah that was poor from the umpire. Shaked his head instantly without even thinking about it.
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Starting to get a (slightly) bad feeling
Nah, we're bowling ok, just need something to go our way (like the umpire giving that one that clipped Nevill's glove) and I think the bowlers will really get a boost and go after them. We're missing Jimmy though because he's the one we go to in situations like this.
To put it another way, Australia require 70 runs to win with 3 wickets remaining.
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Starting to get a (slightly) bad feeling
Nah, we're bowling ok, just need something to go our way (like the umpire giving that one that clipped Nevill's glove) and I think the bowlers will really get a boost and go after them. We're missing Jimmy though because he's the one we go to in situations like this.
To put it another way, Australia require 70 runs to win with 3 wickets remaining.
you don't think we could chase 130? I know England have struggled for a few years but that's incredibly negative.
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Starting to get a (slightly) bad feeling
Nah, we're bowling ok, just need something to go our way (like the umpire giving that one that clipped Nevill's glove) and I think the bowlers will really get a boost and go after them. We're missing Jimmy though because he's the one we go to in situations like this.
To put it another way, Australia require 70 runs to win with 3 wickets remaining.
you don't think we could chase 130? I know England have struggled for a few years but that's incredibly negative.
Nope, I don't think we could. Our batsmen are pretty spineless when the pressure is on, be it scoreboard pressure like last test or the pressure of the run chase, like vs Pakistan in the UAE. When we bat, Johnson will be firing it short non-stop and we have several players that absolutely love making Lyon look way better than he is.
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Oh, and it looks like Nevill is keeping up the long Aussie tradition of bastard wicket keepers. You're only into them properly once the keeper is back in the hutch.
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Oh, and it looks like Nevill is keeping up the long Aussie tradition of bastard wicket keepers. You're only into them properly once the keeper is back in the hutch.
He's been incredibly charmed in this innings in fairness
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Fuck off Nevil, reviewing ******
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Fucking cheat Nevil. Absolute fucking cheat
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Oh, and it looks like Nevill is keeping up the long Aussie tradition of bastard wicket keepers. You're only into them properly once the keeper is back in the hutch.
He's been incredibly charmed in this innings in fairness
Hence the "bastard" :-)
But he's gone now, and I am slightly relaxed. Fingers crossed for a Finn hattrick!
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If Aussies do set a target of about 100, I'd still be quite nervous about us getting it.
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If Aussies do set a target of about 100, I'd still be quite nervous about us getting it.
Root is averaging about 70 on his own from the last couple of years, some of you are probably scared of your own shadow. I'd rather be chasing as few as possible but to suggest 130 and it's their game to lose to taking the piss.
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If Aussies do set a target of about 100, I'd still be quite nervous about us getting it.
Root is averaging about 70 on his own from the last couple of years, some of you are probably scared of your own shadow. I'd rather be chasing as few as possible but to suggest 130 and it's their game to lose to taking the piss.
I'd give them a slight chance of defending anything over 150.
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Important wicket, come on Finny!
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If Aussies do set a target of about 100, I'd still be quite nervous about us getting it.
Root is averaging about 70 on his own from the last couple of years, some of you are probably scared of your own shadow. I'd rather be chasing as few as possible but to suggest 130 and it's their game to lose to taking the piss.
I'd give them a slight chance of defending anything over 150.
Which is my thinking as well, 200+ is where they start to become favourites, look at the conditions, it's a batting day on a pitch that is better than the sides have made it look (although I don't think England were too far short of par on here which i'd suggest would've been 320-340). Look at the number of runs down the order from both sides, that doesn't suggest a bad pitch, it suggests that the new ball is dangerous so the key is for Lyth, Cook and Bell to see of 15-20 overs and it's easy from there.
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I must say, this is pretty peculiar captaincy from Cook, to have both Root and Ali bowling
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Just gifted them 15 runs there
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To be honest, this has been complete turd this morning from England.
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To be honest, this has been complete turd this morning from England.
The last 10 minutes have been.
I thought Finn and Broad bowled well first up. They just had absolutely zero luck with balls beating the bat on regular occasions. Umpires making poor decisions etc
Stokes gets the wicket!
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I must say, this is pretty peculiar captaincy from Cook, to have both Root and Ali bowling
Old ball so hoping Finn and Broad forthe new ball now as bowled earlier. Missing Jimmy this morning, tried to buy a wicket with the spinners.
Need a wicket, fuck yes, Root catch.
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excellent catch from Root
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9 down, good catch.
I don't think it's so much down to bad bowling this morning, it just looks like a nice wicket to bat on right now, I think Broad in particular bowled well with no reward in his spell.
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I must say, this is pretty peculiar captaincy from Cook, to have both Root and Ali bowling
Old ball so hoping Finn and Broad forthe new ball now as bowled earlier. Missing Jimmy this morning, tried to buy a wicket with the spinners.
Need a wicket, fuck yes, Root catch.
I could see the logic with one of the spinners bowling, but not two. Stokes really should have been bought on before Root.
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If Aussies do set a target of about 100, I'd still be quite nervous about us getting it.
Are you the man to step into Paul's shoes during his Vietnam jaunt!
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Another poor decision from Aleem Dar.
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2nd LB shout there was a really poor decision, looked plum in real time, us not having reviews has really cost us here.
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2nd LB shout there was a really poor decision, looked plum in real time, us not having reviews has really cost us here.
Wasting our reviews was poor. It doesn't excuse awful umpiring though.
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Pitch does look pretty good for batting now. Best of the 3 days.
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Aussies still having a ridiculous amount of luck
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If Aussies do set a target of about 100, I'd still be quite nervous about us getting it.
Root is averaging about 70 on his own from the last couple of years, some of you are probably scared of your own shadow. I'd rather be chasing as few as possible but to suggest 130 and it's their game to lose to taking the piss.
Well, they're already needing to chase more than they made in the second innings at Lord's, and that pitch was dead.
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2nd LB shout there was a really poor decision, looked plum in real time, us not having reviews has really cost us here.
Wasting our reviews was poor. It doesn't excuse awful umpiring though.
No, and given both our reviews returned 'umpire's call' it's doubly frustrating. I think your 2nd review shouldn't be lost in that circumstance, because reviewing the borderline ones where it's looking like it's going to hit and it's shown it was (even if only a feather edge) is kinda what the system is for.
To me the umpire seems to be rushing his decisions this morning.
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If Aussies do set a target of about 100, I'd still be quite nervous about us getting it.
Root is averaging about 70 on his own from the last couple of years, some of you are probably scared of your own shadow. I'd rather be chasing as few as possible but to suggest 130 and it's their game to lose to taking the piss.
Well, they're already needing to chase more than they made in the second innings at Lord's, and that pitch was dead.
I think this pitch is getting reasonably flat now in all fairness. When they've scored 90 runs this morning, there can't be many demons in it.
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If Aussies do set a target of about 100, I'd still be quite nervous about us getting it.
Root is averaging about 70 on his own from the last couple of years, some of you are probably scared of your own shadow. I'd rather be chasing as few as possible but to suggest 130 and it's their game to lose to taking the piss.
Well, they're already needing to chase more than they made in the second innings at Lord's, and that pitch was dead.
Completely different circumstances though, that was a match where we'd been dominated as opposed to one where we'd demolished them twice.
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Not sure Ali should still be bowling now they are 9 down
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This is all a bit too easy for Lyon at the moment
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If Aussies do set a target of about 100, I'd still be quite nervous about us getting it.
Root is averaging about 70 on his own from the last couple of years, some of you are probably scared of your own shadow. I'd rather be chasing as few as possible but to suggest 130 and it's their game to lose to taking the piss.
Well, they're already needing to chase more than they made in the second innings at Lord's, and that pitch was dead.
Completely different circumstances though, that was a match where we'd been dominated as opposed to one where we'd demolished them twice.
To add context to this, if you really think they're favourites here then put something on it - http://live.paddypower.com/#/?event=9212179 (http://live.paddypower.com/#/?event=9212179) - 500/1 is pretty generous when they're favourites.
Sorry going made, that's the draw odds, 17/2 is for the australia win, which is still insanely good in a game with 2 potential results.
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If Aussies do set a target of about 100, I'd still be quite nervous about us getting it.
Root is averaging about 70 on his own from the last couple of years, some of you are probably scared of your own shadow. I'd rather be chasing as few as possible but to suggest 130 and it's their game to lose to taking the piss.
Well, they're already needing to chase more than they made in the second innings at Lord's, and that pitch was dead.
Completely different circumstances though, that was a match where we'd been dominated as opposed to one where we'd demolished them twice.
The pressure is different this time, but it's still pressure. Pressure in that a win will see us 2-1 up and one of our favourite grounds coming up next. Pressure in that a loss from here would be even more devastating than the one at Lord's.
And imagine Lyth goes in the first over, then Bell does what Bell does under pressure, and we're 2 down for not many.
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We're getting some dreadful decisions here and that total is getting towards tricky territory.
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If Aussies do set a target of about 100, I'd still be quite nervous about us getting it.
Root is averaging about 70 on his own from the last couple of years, some of you are probably scared of your own shadow. I'd rather be chasing as few as possible but to suggest 130 and it's their game to lose to taking the piss.
Well, they're already needing to chase more than they made in the second innings at Lord's, and that pitch was dead.
Completely different circumstances though, that was a match where we'd been dominated as opposed to one where we'd demolished them twice.
To add context to this, if you really think they're favourites here then put something on it - http://live.paddypower.com/#/?event=9212179 (http://live.paddypower.com/#/?event=9212179) - 500/1 is pretty generous when they're favourites.
Sorry going made, that's the draw odds, 17/2 is for the australia win, which is still insanely good in a game with 2 potential results.
I already put on Aus when Warner was swinging away, but only at 5/4 or something.
I#ll hedge once England go odds against ;-)
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Ok, stop fucking about now England
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If Aussies do set a target of about 100, I'd still be quite nervous about us getting it.
Root is averaging about 70 on his own from the last couple of years, some of you are probably scared of your own shadow. I'd rather be chasing as few as possible but to suggest 130 and it's their game to lose to taking the piss.
Well, they're already needing to chase more than they made in the second innings at Lord's, and that pitch was dead.
Completely different circumstances though, that was a match where we'd been dominated as opposed to one where we'd demolished them twice.
The pressure is different this time, but it's still pressure. Pressure in that a win will see us 2-1 up and one of our favourite grounds coming up next. Pressure in that a loss from here would be even more devastating than the one at Lord's.
And imagine Lyth goes in the first over, then Bell does what Bell does under pressure, and we're 2 down for not many.
or Bell knocks them off for a famous and deserved victory ?
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If Aussies do set a target of about 100, I'd still be quite nervous about us getting it.
Root is averaging about 70 on his own from the last couple of years, some of you are probably scared of your own shadow. I'd rather be chasing as few as possible but to suggest 130 and it's their game to lose to taking the piss.
Well, they're already needing to chase more than they made in the second innings at Lord's, and that pitch was dead.
Completely different circumstances though, that was a match where we'd been dominated as opposed to one where we'd demolished them twice.
The pressure is different this time, but it's still pressure. Pressure in that a win will see us 2-1 up and one of our favourite grounds coming up next. Pressure in that a loss from here would be even more devastating than the one at Lord's.
And imagine Lyth goes in the first over, then Bell does what Bell does under pressure, and we're 2 down for not many.
Even if we are 2 down that's Cook and Root in, and even if one of them goes we have Bairstow who's averaging over 100 in domestic cricket this season, or Stokes who's scored plenty of runs this summer, etc, etc. What you're suggesting is that it's 'likely' that our entire batting lineup will fail.
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I getting pretty bored by this amount of luck the aussies continue to have today
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About time
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I fully expect us to win comfortably.
We have made it trickier for ourselves than we should have though.
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thank god for that, and I'd had a bet for them to get less than 450 in total (put on before play started on day 1) which has worked out well, I nearly went for 400 so I'd have been really pissed off if I had and they end on 401.
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Even if we are 2 down that's Cook and Root in, and even if one of them goes we have Bairstow who's averaging over 100 in domestic cricket this season, or Stokes who's scored plenty of runs this summer, etc, etc. What you're suggesting is that it's 'likely' that our entire batting lineup will fail.
It wouldn't be the first time, and it wouldn't be without precedent.
Of course, Lyth could hit a swashbuckling 50 and we win by 10 wickets...
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I am gonna have a sneaky tenner on them at 12/1, purely to soften the blow a little if we do have a monumental fuckup.
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If Lyth fails here then that surely has to be the end for him
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Are they seriously opening with Hazlewood and Starc? Should have started with Johnson straight away.
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If Lyth fails here then that surely has to be the end for him
He'll get another chance if we win.
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Sky showing a special on Waqar and Wasim in the lunch break. As good as Johnson can be in spells, he's not up there with Wasim.
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If Lyth fails here then that surely has to be the end for him
Isn't it only four Tests ago he scored a hundred? People are too quick to write players off, I think he's paying the price of the stupidity of playing Trott ahead of him in the Caribbean. Bairstow supposedly isn't good enough for Test cricket but it's not that long ago he batted superbly against the South African attack and he's in the form of his life, the delivery that got him out yesterday would have troubled the best in the world, bit of patience required with players coming into the side.
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Even if we are 2 down that's Cook and Root in, and even if one of them goes we have Bairstow who's averaging over 100 in domestic cricket this season, or Stokes who's scored plenty of runs this summer, etc, etc. What you're suggesting is that it's 'likely' that our entire batting lineup will fail.
It wouldn't be the first time, and it wouldn't be without precedent.
Of course, Lyth could hit a swashbuckling 50 and we win by 10 wickets...
It wouldn't be without precedent I agree, but there's far more precedent for us scoring steadily, losing a few wickets and knocking them off for 3 or 4 just after tea.
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If Lyth fails here then that surely has to be the end for him
Isn't it only four Tests ago he scored a hundred? People are too quick to write players off, I think he's paying the price of the stupidity of playing Trott ahead of him in the Caribbean. Bairstow supposedly isn't good enough for Test cricket but it's not that long ago he batted superbly against the South African attack and he's in the form of his life, the delivery that got him out yesterday would have troubled the best in the world, bit of patience required with players coming into the side.
Put another way, Lyth has had 9 test innings, 8 of which have been failures. His century as I recall was decent, but pretty scratchy. Robson scored a century last summer, but failed miserably apart from that. It was the correct decision to drop him.
He may score 60 odd today, in which case fair play and he deserves to keep his place. From what I've seen so far, he just looks like he's lacking a bit at this level. Put the ball outside his off stump on a consistent basis and he'll nick off.
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If Lyth fails here then that surely has to be the end for him
Isn't it only four Tests ago he scored a hundred? People are too quick to write players off, I think he's paying the price of the stupidity of playing Trott ahead of him in the Caribbean. Bairstow supposedly isn't good enough for Test cricket but it's not that long ago he batted superbly against the South African attack and he's in the form of his life, the delivery that got him out yesterday would have troubled the best in the world, bit of patience required with players coming into the side.
Put another way, Lyth has had 9 test innings, 8 of which have been failures. His century as I recall was decent, but pretty scratchy. Robson scored a century last summer, but failed miserably apart from that. It was the correct decision to drop him.
He may score 60 odd today, in which case fair play and he deserves to keep his place. From what I've seen so far, he just looks like he's lacking a bit at this level. Put the ball outside his off stump on a consistent basis and he'll nick off.
Lyth looks scared of failing right now, as I said before in the first innings he'd done really well and then he got impatient and played at one that he should've left, if he's got the natural game to succeed then we need to give him every chance to learn what he can leave and when to play, that's the big difference between first class and test level batting, particularly for openers.
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Cook gone ! :(
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Shit
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Cook gone. Great delivery in fairness.
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Good delivery to be fair to him.
Bell, at his home ground needs to put in a performance here.
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Come on England! It would be good if our out of form batsmen could see us home.
Four from Bell's first ball
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Haha, Bell on for fastest Ashes half century to take it from Warner?
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Oof, Bell lucky there. That shot was slip practice.
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This smells like a reverse Headingley 1981.
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We've got more than half the required runs.
Listening on TMS, the atmosphere sounds amazing. Why Edgbaston doesn't get an automatic Ashes test is beyond me. The players love playing there and Warner admitted that the Aussies were intimidated by the crowd. We should stage the first test every year at Edgbaston like the Aussies do as Brisbane. They haven't lost a test at Brissie for donkeys years.
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We've got more than half the required runs.
Listening on TMS, the atmosphere sounds amazing. Why Edgbaston doesn't get an automatic Ashes test is beyond me. The players love playing there and Warner admitted that the Aussies were intimidated by the crowd. We should stage the first test every year at Edgbaston like the Aussies do as Brisbane. They haven't lost a test at Brissie for donkeys years.
Yep definitely. Unfortunately the ECB cares more about making a few extra quid from having the counties bid for the matches, rather than the success of the team itself.
Edgbaston should have a test each summer without fail. Scandalous that it doesn't
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We've got more than half the required runs.
Listening on TMS, the atmosphere sounds amazing. Why Edgbaston doesn't get an automatic Ashes test is beyond me. The players love playing there and Warner admitted that the Aussies were intimidated by the crowd. We should stage the first test every year at Edgbaston like the Aussies do as Brisbane. They haven't lost a test at Brissie for donkeys years.
Yep definitely. Unfortunately the ECB cares more about making a few extra quid from having the counties bid for the matches, rather than the success of the team itself.
Edgbaston should have a test each summer without fail. Scandalous that it doesn't
Surely a continually successful England side would generate even more revenue and the feel-good factor feed down to county and grass-roots cricket. To me that is a win - win situation.
One of the problems with Cricket in this country is the ECB's preoccupation with profit over the performance of the team as you rightly pointed out.
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50 for Bell. He's looked very classy in both innings in this match.
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A nice days work and a good overall test for England.
Lyth though. Doesn't look good enough. From the little I've seen of him admittedly he looks neither as good as Compton or Carberry and looks a walking wicket, at least those two had to be wrestled out.
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The Hollies stand is in great voice.
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The Hollies stand is in great voice.
just about to say exactly the same.....great to hear the Mitchell Johnson song :)
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A nice days work and a good overall test for England.
Lyth though. Doesn't look good enough. From the little I've seen of him admittedly he looks neither as good as Compton or Carberry and looks a walking wicket, at least those two had to be wrestled out.
Carberry was the one we got badly wrong but that's largely because he came out in support of KP and made himself toxic to the people who'd decided that the only casualty of the last ashes was going to be him.
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Only missed it by about a metre. Extremely weird that they just assumed it was out
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I hear the Holties Stand is in good voice. I can't believe that's not just tonnes of Villa making that noise.
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The Aussies have bowled some dross. Even Johnson, who has bowled some unplayable deliveries has lived up to his song. At times even his bowling has been shite.
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The Aussies have bowled some dross. Even Johnson, who has bowled some unplayable deliveries has lived up to his song. At times even his bowling has been shite.
That's what makes him so dangerous, he's quick and even he isn't completely sure where the ball is going, which means the good ones are horrible to play.
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The Aussies have bowled some dross. Even Johnson, who has bowled some unplayable deliveries has lived up to his song. At times even his bowling has been shite.
That's what makes him so dangerous, he's quick and even he isn't completely sure where the ball is going, which means the good ones are horrible to play.
He completely lost his run up in his final over.
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Get in!
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Absolutely fantastic result. Well played England. A wonderful comeback after Lords.
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The Aussies have bowled some dross. Even Johnson, who has bowled some unplayable deliveries has lived up to his song. At times even his bowling has been shite.
That's what makes him so dangerous, he's quick and even he isn't completely sure where the ball is going, which means the good ones are horrible to play.
He completely lost his run up in his final over.
The taunting by the fans was f'ing hilarious, I love the abuse he gets.
Brilliant win, Bell and Root batted superbly, ended up slightly better than I predicted a couple of pages back, as I said, it just looked like a nice pitch to bat on today.
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Well done England
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Great win and we're heading to Trent Bridge to win the series. Well done Ian Bell - proved the doubters wrong yet again!
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Nice and easy in the end. For whatever reason the Aussies never really put us under much pressure. Cook got a ball with his name on it, Bell was dropped, but the onslaught never really materialised.
Maybe Clarke had already written this one off.
Anyway, Trent Bridge was always a ground where it swung a lot so it's a shame Jimmy won't be there. Of the backup bowlers, do any of them really swing it much? Onions seems out of the reckoning, what about Plunkett or Wood (if fit)? They seem the next in line.
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As before, Woakes for me. Wood needs to get fitter and Plunkett flatters to deceive.
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Woakes doesn't do enough with the ball at his pace for me to trouble top batsmen.
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It's Wood for me. That guy has something special. I imagine the lad from Durham who they took on the pre-Ashes jolly to Spain is in with an outside shout too.
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Have to say amongst all the triumphalism I can never get used to 'new' name of the River Rea Bank stand.
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Yes same here. I spent all afternoon telling a Mackem about the romance of Rea Bank Stand in the yester year. It's not the same now but fans did it proud today.
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Great day at Edgbaston as it turned out. Arrived with some trepidation that it all could be over in the first hour but some quality cricket from Aussies made it almost a full day. I thought they batted and bowled well today. Really pleased for Ian Bell. Very good knock. The day overall belonged to the supporters.
As I said before feel sorry for the County as the two days of income lost is their direct profit as first three days just cover the cost including some two million pounds handed to England board.
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TMS were saying that there was insurance to cover some of the list ticket income
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I read this morning that they took out insurance on the game ending early.
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Lyth dropped for the next test? But who to come in?
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I chose a bad day to turn a ticket down.
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Fantastic win, well done to all involved.
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Please work...
(http://twitter.com/WWOS9/status/627127744711798784/photo/1)
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"Mate, what are you doing out here, there's no way you're good enough to play for England."
So said Mark Waugh to James Ormond at The Oval in 2001. Australia had the Ashes wrapped up three Tests in, but England won the fourth. The Aussies went on to win the final Test by an innings and 25 runs (and the series 4-1), but the real winner could well be debutant bowler Ormond, who came back at Waugh with this zinger:
"Maybe not, but at least I'm the best player in my family."
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/ashes-2015-the-best-sledges-in-australia-v-england-history-20150707-gi6qf8.html#ixzz3hY7ZSmIU
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"You're a f------g cheat!"
Australian wicketkeeper Ian Healy, a persistent chirper from behind the stumps, chides Mike Atherton at the SCG during the Englishman's first Ashes tour in 1990-91 for not walking after apparently edging the ball to Healy. The eloquent opener, now a TV commentator, responded: "When in Rome, dear boy..."
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/ashes-2015-the-best-sledges-in-australia-v-england-history-20150707-gi6qf8.html#ixzz3hY7qXGEv
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(http://www.smh.com.au/cqstatic/12z7v7/hayden2.gif)
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I just think it's fantastic to have Finn back as a Test bowler. He has everything a world class bowler needs and he's back up around 88mph again.
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I just think it's fantastic to have Finn back as a Test bowler. He has everything a world class bowler needs and he's back up around 88mph again.
Yeah now he's up at full pace again and all the nonsense with his action is resolved he needs to become a big part of the side, as I said though we're going to have a real headache with the quicks soon because we've got about 5 or 6 who deserve to be involved.
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My favourite sledges are the Botham and Marsh one and the Glenn McGrath/Eddo Brandes one:
Botham arrives at the crease and Marsh asks "How's your wife and my kids?" Beefy replied "The wife's fine but the kids are retarded"
Brandes was batting number 11, he'd have batted lower in the order if he could have. McGrath was frustrated that he couldn't get him out. "Why are you so fat?" asked McGrath. "Because every time I make love to your wife she gives me a biscuit" taunted Eddo.
Class!
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Plunkett and Footitt in the squad for Trent Bridge
Lyth keeps his place
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/33747185
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Sounds like Wood isn't 100%. I think I'd go for Plunkett in that case.
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I've always wondered if it's just simply a case of 'next cab off the rank' when it comes to replacing a bowler or if it's a case of replacing like with like. If it's the latter, then I guess we're going to need someone who can move the ball around first up.
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I think they have picked Wood, Plunkett and Footitt to cover all the bases as they wont know until they get to Trent Bridge what the pitch will look like, do
If it looks like a swinging pitch Wood will play, If it looks hard and bouncy Plunkett will play and Footitt may be in there to cover all of them
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If Footit plays he'll be the first Derbyshire player to play for England since Cork in 2002.
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I hope Trent Bridge isn't another shocking pitch like last year.
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Imagine being at both day 4 at Edgbaston in 2005 and day 3 in 2015? Oh wait, I was 😃 (gloat over).
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My favourite sledges are the Botham and Marsh one and the Glenn McGrath/Eddo Brandes one:
Botham arrives at the crease and Marsh asks "How's your wife and my kids?" Beefy replied "The wife's fine but the kids are retarded"
Brandes was batting number 11, he'd have batted lower in the order if he could have. McGrath was frustrated that he couldn't get him out. "Why are you so fat?" asked McGrath. "Because every time I make love to your wife she gives me a biscuit" taunted Eddo.
Class!
he's a prize cnt now, Ian Healey, but his sledge to one of the injured Sri Lankan batsman of: you don't get a runner for being a fat ******, always makes me chuckle when I think of it.
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May be I am biased but the atmosphere on all three days showed that alongside Lords Edgbaston should always be an automatic pick for a test match and way ahead of Cardiff or Rose Bowl!
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The Rose Bowl is a brilliant venue. Trust me if you go there it's fantastic. As it happens I think only Lords and the Oval should be guaranteed Tests.
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Why should 2 London venues be guaranteed tests in a 5 match series? 3 games to be shared out amongst the rest of country?
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For 5 series it should be 2 in the north, 2 in the south and one in the midlands.
For 4 Test you lose either one from the north or south.
For 3 Test series 1 in each. Simple.
Channel Nine commentators here talked a lot about the support. They thought it was fantastic and that the Aussies really struggled to cope with the partisan atmosphere. Particularly those new to it like Smith, Marsh etc.
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There are three Northern grounds, three Southern grounds and three Midlands/Wales grounds that host test cricket.
The Ashes should be rotated on the basis that two of the three regions get two games with the other getting one. The region which only gets one will be rotated so that, over the course of three Ashes series each region hosts five matches. Over the course of nine Ashes series each region hosts fifteen matches and each test ground hosts five.
Similar policies should be in place for all the other test series.
Fuck the London bias. They already get the World Cup Final whenever we host it and all the major football and rugby union matches in the country.
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Yes I do hate London bias but why Southampton and Cardiff when famous venues in cricketing heartlands, OT and Headingley, are not considered?
And again... Edgbaston should always have one test against whoever because of local support and geographical location in the middle of the country.
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I don't think it's fair just to have the game in the cricketing heartland. If someone had taken that view in 1900 we'd never have had one!
Glamorgan and Hampshire have both spent a fortune upgrading/replacing their stadia and should be rewarded.
I'd like to see another one upgrade, maybe Bristol? That way we'd have ten venues and they could just host one test every two Ashes.
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I was talking to some Aussie fans the other day and they were saying that they would never set foot in the SWALEC ever again as the facilities were so
shite....toilets too small and not enough of them, the overall cramped conditions etc.
For them as their first visit to Edgbaston were stunned by the facilities and the quality of all facilities from seats, views bars, food outlets etc and the friendliness off the
Brummies they were certainly overwhelmed by the ground and atmosphere they couldn't believe that we weren't an automatic choice for Ashes tests.
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Never been but I've heard The Oval is pretty terrible in terms of leg room. At Edgbaston even Peter Crouch would be comfy.
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I don't think it's fair just to have the game in the cricketing heartland. If someone had taken that view in 1900 we'd never have had one!
Glamorgan and Hampshire have both spent a fortune upgrading/replacing their stadia and should be rewarded.
I'd like to see another one upgrade, maybe Bristol? That way we'd have ten venues and they could just host one test every two Ashes.
Knowing where Bristol's ground is located, not sure how viable it is to be upgraded, considering how many houses there are around it, don't think it could cope with 15,000+ turning up for matches.
Then again, Hampshire is a nightmare to get away from, so probably means very little
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Edgbaston's a nightmare to get out of when it's a full house. You may be right about Bristol though. I see the only non-test venue selected for World Cup games is Taunton. Is that any good?
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Edgbaston's a nightmare to get out of when it's a full house. You may be right about Bristol though. I see the only non-test venue selected for World Cup games is Taunton. Is that any good?
It's a lovely ground but certainly not really up to hosting a Test match. It's a bit like Worcester in that regard, lovely ground to while away a sunny afternoon but wouldn't cope with a massive crowd. I assume they aren't getting one of the big games? I haven't looked.
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It's four years away so they haven't allocated the grounds to particular group matches yet.
A quick Google reveals I was talking shite about Taunton being the only non-Test ground. It's the non-Test grounds plus Taunton AND Bristol.
They've indicated that the opening game and final will be at The Oval/Lord's with the semis at Edgbaston/Old Trafford but it's not been confirmed yet.
EDIT: that's pretty much confirmed. They're the venues the ECB has recommended to the ICC and I can't think of any reason why the ICC would choose to override those recommendations.
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Edgbaston's a nightmare to get out of when it's a full house.
Don't agree as I have always found it a breeze. Surrounded by three major arterial roads and a Derek Randall throw away from the superb ring road it's possibly one of the best venues in the country for moving traffic in or out.
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I've never had issues getting out of Edgbaston so i'm with the king of Sweden on this.
The worst ground of any sort to get out of (that I've been to) is the Northamptonshire cricket ground, I lived just round the corner from it as a student and despite it only being 6000 odd capacity if they had anything approaching a full house the roads all around would be fucked for an hour afterwards. Think the students and the cricket fans were a bad mix.
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It might be okay if you drive, but there can't be too many grounds which are inaccessible except by road?
Not Warwickshire's fault, more due to Birmingham having the worst public transport of any major city in the UK (that I know of).
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It might be okay if you drive, but there can't be too many grounds which are inaccessible except by road?
Not Warwickshire's fault, more due to Birmingham having the worst public transport of any major city in the UK (that I know of).
If you mean buses then I think it's ok, 5 minute walk to Pershore road or a few minutes further to Bristol Road and you've got loads of choice into the city.
If you mean trains/light rail then I agree, but that's a massive failing in the city that I've mentioned a number of times, we need to get people off the roads and the simplest way to do that is invest heavily in a high class light rail system, when devolution happens a big chunk of the money should be invested in a network like that, not just for Birmingham but to link the region. I don't think that has much to do with cricket though.
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It might be okay if you drive, but there can't be too many grounds which are inaccessible except by road?
Not Warwickshire's fault, more due to Birmingham having the worst public transport of any major city in the UK (that I know of).
If you mean buses then I think it's ok, 5 minute walk to Pershore road or a few minutes further to Bristol Road and you've got loads of choice into the city.
If you mean trains/light rail then I agree, but that's a massive failing in the city that I've mentioned a number of times, we need to get people off the roads and the simplest way to do that is invest heavily in a high class light rail system, when devolution happens a big chunk of the money should be invested in a network like that, not just for Birmingham but to link the region. I don't think that has much to do with cricket though.
For anything approaching a big game, and this includes T20 matches, the club lay on a shuttle to and from New Street.
I travel in the opposite direction, and my experiences have not been good. I have waited for a 61/62/63/X64/144 from the Bristol Road for over 30 minutes 3 times this season. On two occasions, it was the same on the way to the ground. I can walk it in an hour and 20 minutes, and get a taxi for around a tenner, so I a not without alternatives, but is is irritating to the the point where I have missed a couple of home T20 games because I did not need the aggravation.
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I was talking to some Aussie fans the other day and they were saying that they would never set foot in the SWALEC ever again as the facilities were so
shite....toilets too small and not enough of them, the overall cramped conditions etc.
For them as their first visit to Edgbaston were stunned by the facilities and the quality of all facilities from seats, views bars, food outlets etc and the friendliness off the
Brummies they were certainly overwhelmed by the ground and atmosphere they couldn't believe that we weren't an automatic choice for Ashes tests.
That was the impression I got from the majority of Aussies as well, PGW. One guy told me that the view from the Skyline Terrace East towards Moseley looked like a rain forest.
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Most pundits I have heard on the radio and TV are favouring Wood to come back into the side to replace Anderson. I think an attack of Broad, Finn and Wood looks fine, but if the ball is moving around then none of them are really renowned for swinging the ball. The Aussie top order have struggled against the swinging ball early on, so we might miss a trick. It is a shame Graham Onions has had injury and form problems, as he was very good in those type of conditions.
Elsewhere, looks like Lyth will keep his place. He's a bit fortunate, but good to see some continuity and not the 'chop and change' mentality of yesteryear.
-
We could do with Buttler turning up with the bat in the next Test.
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We could do with Buttler turning up with the bat in the next Test.
Wouldn't need him to if the top order could all do their job for once, at least Buttler is doing his main job pretty well.
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England win toss and bowl....Wood confirmed.
-
Aussies select Shaun Marsh in for Mitchell Marsh.
Clarke batting 5 with Mitch Marsh at 4
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Bowling first is an interesting choice. I hope Broad and Finn hit their straps quick.
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Win the toss - BAT
Always bat, always.
Mind you, looked like a lot of grass on that wicket, could be a lively morning.
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That's a good toss to win. The pitch looks green and the ball should do something.
Clarke drops down to 5 with Sean Marsh replacing his brother. Interesting that they've weakened their attack at a ground which traditionally favours the ball.
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I'm alway's uneasy about winning the toss and bowling. It does make perfect sense when you look at the conditions today, but deciding to bowl first is a different sort of pressure on yourself.
Gutting that Anderson is injured. He'd have ran amok this morning
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I don't subscribe to the theory that you should always bat if you win the toss, but it's important we pick up at least 3 wickets this morning.
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Congratulations to Broady on his 300, great start.
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I don't subscribe to the theory that you should always bat if you win the toss, but it's important we pick up at least 3 wickets this morning.
How about 3 wickets in 3 overs?
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Bloody hell!
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Congratulations to Broady on his 300, great start.
And his 301st in the very first over.
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I don't subscribe to the theory that you should always bat if you win the toss, but it's important we pick up at least 3 wickets this morning.
How about 8 balls
-
OOSH Warner OUT NOW 10-3.
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at this rate they'll be gone by lunch
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This is reminiscent of Edgbaston few years ago 8 down by lunch.
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This is bonkers.
-
they're taking wickets like Villa sign Frenchies
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Rogers Smith and Warner all out for 10 runs, get in.
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I don't subscribe to the theory that you should always bat if you win the toss, but it's important we pick up at least 3 wickets this morning.
Tick.
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Marsh out for 0 oooooosssshhhhh
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it just gets better and better
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This is brilliant bowling, playing the conditions to perfection
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Okay, so now and again you bowl.
E X Tras is the Aussies highest scorer so far.
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This is insanely brilliant.
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Wow what a catch by Stokes, that's five out.
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Well phuck my old boots.
This spell by Broad has shades of McGrath at Lords in 2005.
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21 for 5 after 30 minutes
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Again insane.
-
pity anyone stuck in traffic on the way to the ground
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Useful partnership this, desperately need a wicket now or the game is moving away from us.
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Useful partnership this, desperately need a wicket now or the game is moving away from us.
And Clarke happily obliges!
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Broad when he is on a role is the best in the world in my opinion.
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Who needs Jimmy Anderson
Sydney Barnes the last England player to take a fifer before lunch in a Test (1913).....a great Bear of yesteryear!!!!
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This is right up there with the best spells of bowling I've ever seen. No particularly poor shots amongst the wickets, which makes it all the more impressive.
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boycott is so far up his own arse.......but it's enjoyable
-
Oh well, we had a good run.
Congrats to you guys, see you back in Oz in...28 months. Bugger.
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We need a wicket, if these two hang around etc
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33-7 now. If ever there's going to be a Test finished in 2 days.......................
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We need a wicket because if these two put on a partnership we could be in trouble..
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We need a wicket, if these two hang around etc
methinks you are trying to set yourself up as some sort of orange dot merchant
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Is it inconceivable that England may be batting before lunch!!!!
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I clean forgot about the cricket.
I only remembered when I got in the car to pop into 'Nam town centre. The Aussies were four down at that point.
By the time that I'd been to the bank and grabbed a coffee, I just got back in the car in time to hear the seventh one go down
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They've just managed to beat their lowest ever Test score though.
-
There's number 8
-
Is it inconceivable that England may be batting before lunch!!!!
And we will be batting in these conditions. We could be 6 or 7 down by the end of the day ourselves.
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Make that 9
-
Well well well nine down now.
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Johnson managed to make double figures.
-
Broad producing one of his legendary spells.
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With all due respect, the Aussies can take their mental scars and stick em where the sun don't shine.
Still, let's not get too triumphal before we've had a bat. If any team can throw away a position like this it's England.
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Imagine forgetting this was on this morning because you've got caught up in other things, suddenly realising you forgot, turning the radio on and discovering the Aussies are 50-9! I shan't be forgetting it any more....
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Entering an important stage of the game, really need to finish them off now etc
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All out
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Which we have just done!
-
Broad 8 for 15 in 9 and a half overs
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I expect Lyth wishes that the Aussies could have hung on for a few more minutes so that he didn't have to bat before lunch
-
(http://i.imgur.com/8ZJlSjV.jpg)
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Awesome, just awesome from Broad. Excellent catching aswell, especially the one from Stokes which was otherworldly.
The Aussies really are flat track bullies. Any little bit of life in the pitch and their much vaunted batsmen cannot cope.
-
Broad 8 for 15 in 9 and a half overs
That's just superb.
-
England just need to play there natural game now, no pressure, 300+ will probably bat them out of the match.
-
Broad, take a bow, that's a truly stunning session from him. He's always been one for having spells of being unplayable but this is far and away his best spell ever for England and now our joint 4th highest wicket-taker ever.
Now a nice sensible short spell from Cook and Lyth, get into lunch safe and put this down as the most one sided session in the ashes for years.
-
Shame we didn't have Jimmy either, probably would have bowled them out for 20 ish :D
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Come on Lyth
-
Am I glad that I bought a weekly pass for Sky Sprts on Now TV; I would have hated to miss watching that.
Excellent bowling but you would think that Australia would have cottoned on that you need soft hands and forward defensive shots an an English slow seamer in swinging conditions. In particular, Rogers and Voges have no excuse, they have spent enough time in county cricket here.
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Come on England, grind them into the dirt and bat until Saturday lunchtime.
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Pah! We laugh at your puny slip cordon.
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Both Englishmen played their respective 1st balls with a great deal of confidence, both going for 4.
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Broad, take a bow, that's a truly stunning session from him. He's always been one for having spells of being unplayable but this is far and away his best spell ever for England and now our joint 4th highest wicket-taker ever.
Now a nice sensible short spell from Cook and Lyth, get into lunch safe and put this down as the most one sided session in the ashes for years.
1997 we had em 88-8 at lunch (8-54 at 1 stage) bowled em out for 118 then went on to get 478-9 dec, Nasser 200+ and Thorpe 138. Would be nice to do that again
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I've got to go to work now so hopefully it will be spent listening to England batting for the rest of the day.
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Come on England, grind them into the dirt and bat until Saturday lunchtime.
Got a ticket for Saturday at all Joe?
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Broad, take a bow, that's a truly stunning session from him. He's always been one for having spells of being unplayable but this is far and away his best spell ever for England and now our joint 4th highest wicket-taker ever.
Now a nice sensible short spell from Cook and Lyth, get into lunch safe and put this down as the most one sided session in the ashes for years.
1997 we had em 88-8 at lunch (8-54 at 1 stage) bowled em out for 118 then went on to get 478-9 dec, Nasser 200+ and Thorpe 138. Would be nice to do that again
That's the one I twas thinking of I just couldn't remember which year it was and yes a similar innings now would be fantastic.
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and there we go, 13-0 to end a truly wonderful session for England.
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I think you could call that a good morning for England.......beautiful!!!!!
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At least it was so quick I only lost an hour or so of work time. Tremendous from Broad.
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Win the toss - BAT
Always bat, always.
England go into lunch on the first day with both openers still at the crease.
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Twitter has been great fun this morning, one of the best:
The phone goes in the Aussie dressing room
"Can I speak to Michael Clarke pls ?"
"He's just gone out to bat"
"Ok, I'll hold"
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Twitter has been great fun this morning, one of the best:
The phone goes in the Aussie dressing room
"Can I speak to Michael Clarke pls ?"
"He's just gone out to bat"
"Ok, I'll hold"
Marvellous! Stolen
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Also stolen.
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What a morning! I thought the Aussies looked like a beaten side at times during the last test and I think this is further evidence of that. Nevermind a broken f@cking arm Michael Clarke, you've got a broken f@cking team!
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Australia#s full innings:
04W24W0W04100000W40000110W020000401000W000000000101000011W00
11200010040040000W1W30000000000000400000000000001004W
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Well, that put the theory to bed that England can't manage without Anderson!
Superb from Broad, one of the best spells of bowling I've ever seen. Lyth needs to put on a score now, it's perfectly set up for him to redeem himself.
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Couple of facts picked up from TMS:
Australia were bowled out in 111 balls - the fewest amount for a first innings in Test history
Stuart Broad's 8-15 are the best bowling figures for England since Devon Malcolm's 9-57 v SA at Oval 1n 1994
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Stunning display.
As an aside, is Ed Smith the most arrogant radio commentator on TMS?
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Stunning display.
As an aside, is Ed Smith the most arrogant radio commentator on TMS?
Boycott ?
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Couple of facts picked up from TMS:
Australia were bowled out in 111 balls - the fewest amount for a first innings in Test history
Stuart Broad's 8-15 are the best bowling figures for England since Devon Malcolm's 9-57 v SA at Oval 1n 1994
Mr Extras top scored for the first time in an Ashes game as well.
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Stunning display.
As an aside, is Ed Smith the most arrogant radio commentator on TMS?
Boycott ?
He is certainly arrogant, but he was a top class player.
They are talking about a cricket film during the lunch break, and Ed smith is offering his critique. He was blathering on about the producer's methodology, and at one point said "As an essayist...."
Tool.
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Come on England, grind them into the dirt and bat until Saturday lunchtime.
Got a ticket for Saturday at all Joe?
No, but many summers of my youth were spent watching some twats in green helmets bat for days and days on end, so I welcome anything that redresses the balance. As long as weather isn't a factor, bat them out of the game and then some.
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Stunning display.
As an aside, is Ed Smith the most arrogant radio commentator on TMS?
I like Ed Smith
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Come on England, grind them into the dirt and bat until Saturday lunchtime.
Got a ticket for Saturday at all Joe?
No, but many summers of my youth were spent watching some twats in green helmets bat for days and days on end, so I welcome anything that redresses the balance. As long as weather isn't a factor, bat them out of the game and then some.
Exactly this!!!
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Quickest five-fer (in terms of balls bowled) ever at the start of a Test
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As a tip to "how you get your porn star name".
How to get your Aussie batsman name:
Just add "b Broad" after your surname.
-
Stunning display.
As an aside, is Ed Smith the most arrogant radio commentator on TMS?
Boycott ?
He is certainly arrogant, but he was a top class player.
They are talking about a cricket film during the lunch break, and Ed smith is offering his critique. He was blathering on about the producer's methodology, and at one point said "As an essayist...."
Tool.
He wrote at least one acclaimed book I think. Was it on baseball? Or sports psychology or some such?
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Playing-Hard-Ball-Cricket-Baseball/dp/0349116660/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
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Stunning display.
As an aside, is Ed Smith the most arrogant radio commentator on TMS?
I like Ed Smith
Same here and to be fair to him he's better known as a writer and author these days. Isn't he really into his baseball?
Edit. Yes he is!
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And as for most arrogant, it's Vaughan the Lancastrian.
-
Stunning display.
As an aside, is Ed Smith the most arrogant radio commentator on TMS?
Boycott ?
He is certainly arrogant, but he was a top class player.
They are talking about a cricket film during the lunch break, and Ed smith is offering his critique. He was blathering on about the producer's methodology, and at one point said "As an essayist...."
Tool.
He wrote at least one acclaimed book I think. Was it on baseball? Or sports psychology or some such?
I have read it.
I certainly haven't heard any of the other commentators on there (many have written books) announce themselves as "essayists".
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The Aussie fight back starts as Lyth fails again.
Will he be kept in the side for the final test ?
-
And as for most arrogant, it's Vaughan the Lancastrian.
Vaughan is a good shout, though in fairness he is quite insightful generally.
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The Aussie fight back starts as Lyth fails again.
Will he be kept in the side for the final test ?
If we win this one then definetley.
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And as for most arrogant, it's Vaughan the Lancastrian.
The only time that I've seen Vaughan in person, he was rushing around Chillfactore looking for his kid.
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The Aussie fight back starts as Lyth fails again.
Will he be kept in the side for the final test ?
If we win this one then definetley.
I actually think the opposite, if we win they might opt to try out someone different.
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Bell gone for 1
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Bell gone. Oh dear. Aussies batting again before stumps anyone?
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Come on England we need to capitalise here.
-
And as for most arrogant, it's Vaughan the Lancastrian.
Vaughan is a good shout, though in fairness he is quite insightful generally.
When my brother was on TMS he said every single person was great, interested in his work and happy to chat especially Boycott and Tuffers. One person was aloof and not willing to engage, I wasn't surprised to learn who.
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I really hope when (if!!! Still optimistic...) Buttler comes out to bat he is in full on 20/20 or one-day mode.
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I think the ball that got Bell was swinging so much that it would have missed leg stump. He certainly thought so.
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We just need to be careful here, because when Starc gets on a roll he can do serious damage. Let's just have some proper Test batting.
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And as for most arrogant, it's Vaughan the Lancastrian.
Vaughan is a good shout, though in fairness he is quite insightful generally.
When my brother was on TMS he said every single person was great, interested in his work and happy to chat especially Boycott and Tuffers. One person was aloof and not willing to engage, I wasn't surprised to learn who.
Blofeld?
edit: Sorry, I read wasn't for was.
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It's very irritating now when the media say that a player 'smoked' a boundary.
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I think the ball that got Bell was swinging so much that it would have missed leg stump. He certainly thought so.
I couldn't believe it when hawkeye showed it clipping. In fact i'm not buying it. The close up clearly showed the ball deflect significantly from the front pad onto the back pad. From the back pad line I can accept the ball was clipping leg stump, but from the front pad line it looked to be missing by several inches.
I genuinely think Hawkeye has cocked up here. Does the technology have an issue when the ball hits both pads?
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Lyth doesn't look a test player to me.
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Yep, definitely looks like Hawkeye has taken the track of the ball from when it hit the back pad rather than the front, one for the boffins to look at I think.
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Lyth doesn't look a test player to me.
He did get out to a good ball today, but I agree. 1 good innings and 10 failures so far, where he has been continually exposed outside off stump
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Lyth doesn't look a test player to me.
He did get out to a good ball today, but I agree. 1 good innings and 10 failures so far, where he has been continually exposed outside off stump
Yep, it's the ball just outside off stump, the one that Cook leaves so well. He doesn't have the judgement and plays at too many. Walking caught behind in test cricket.
I'd have loved us to have stuck with Carberry.
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Australia bowling well at the moment. Just need to tough it out to break the back of them
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In the lead!!
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Lyth doesn't look a test player to me.
He did get out to a good ball today, but I agree. 1 good innings and 10 failures so far, where he has been continually exposed outside off stump
not making any other point with this but today he's the 2nd highest scorer in the match.
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I agree with the hawkeye criticism on here, it was going well down leg.
-
Australia bowling well at the moment. Just need to tough it out to break the back of them
Root is showing how to do, lots of dots but hitting the fence whenever there's one to cash in on, 24 with 6 boundaries. If he keeps this up they'll all get pretty fed before long, Johnson looks a bit down already.
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Australia bowling well at the moment. Just need to tough it out to break the back of them
Root is showing how to do, lots of dots but hitting the fence whenever there's one to cash in on, 24 with 6 boundaries. If he keeps this up they'll all get pretty fed before long, Johnson looks a bit down already.
Starc has looked so much more threatening than the other two quicks.
-
50 partnership, good stuff from Root and Cook
-
Good effort from the captain and vice captain.
-
Australia bowling well at the moment. Just need to tough it out to break the back of them
Root is showing how to do, lots of dots but hitting the fence whenever there's one to cash in on, 24 with 6 boundaries. If he keeps this up they'll all get pretty fed before long, Johnson looks a bit down already.
Starc has looked so much more threatening than the other two quicks.
I agree, Johnson is too erratic for a pitch like this and Hazlewood, for me, isn't ready to bowl as 3rd quick at this level. He reminds me of Finn a few years back where you could see there was a good bowler there but he just didn't have the experience. They've made a big mistake going to 4 bowlers in my opinion and if we can stick around a bit I can see Hazlewood and Starc being out on their feet and Lyon will have to bowl a huge number of overs.
-
Has anyone ever seen a fielding placement liek England used this morning ?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLuKdylWEAAQnfr.jpg)
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That was brilliant, keeper, 5 slips and a leg slip, that's just salt in the wounds.
-
Just seen the score and it was real WTF moment. Going their noses into it England.
-
I think Watson would have been a good bowler on this pitch.
-
Oh dear Lyth. He needs dropping, just hasn't looked comfortable and as an opener he just hasn't cut the mustard at all.
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The BBC text bloke jinxed Cook. Starc is looking a real threat.
-
Good knock from Cook but that was poor.
-
Hmm, there goes our only batter capable of getting really big tons, so our lead won't be huge at the end of the innings.
-
Hmm, there goes our only batter capable of getting really big tons, so our lead won't be huge at the end of the innings.
When was Joe Root out?
-
To be honest when the opposition score 60 you don't need a big ton to get a huge lead. One person getting a ton and then others contributing and you'll have a very big lead.
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If we score around even just 300 then it's a 250ish lead and pretty much game, series and ashes over. If Root is still there at the end of the day we will be well on our way.
-
I think 300 would be quite hard on this pitch tbh. Anything 200 plus would be good.
-
250 looks like a decent score on here to me, even without the clouds the ball is moving late which makes it very hard to be in. You could see with Cook he never looked like he was set for a big score. Root is a little different, he's generally looked a lot more comfortable but even he has flashed at a couple and narrowly avoided an edge.
-
Hmm, there goes our only batter capable of getting really big tons, so our lead won't be huge at the end of the innings.
When was Joe Root out?
Ah, I'll give you that. I didn't think he had a test double century. He strikes me as a bit flash harry like Bell. Players like Cook and thw Trott of old were players I felt had the temperament to bat for days.
-
Hmm, there goes our only batter capable of getting really big tons, so our lead won't be huge at the end of the innings.
When was Joe Root out?
Ah, I'll give you that. I didn't think he had a test double century. He strikes me as a bit flash harry like Bell. Players like Cook and thw Trott of old were players I felt had the temperament to bat for days.
Players like Cook and Trott are becoming out of date, test sides will be full of top and middle order players who can score 100-150 at 80% strike rate going forward, Root and Smith are the best examples of what a world class test batsman post T20 looks like.
-
I'd love it if these 2 were still batting tomorrow morning.
-
Hmm, there goes our only batter capable of getting really big tons, so our lead won't be huge at the end of the innings.
When was Joe Root out?
Ah, I'll give you that. I didn't think he had a test double century. He strikes me as a bit flash harry like Bell. Players like Cook and thw Trott of old were players I felt had the temperament to bat for days.
Players like Cook and Trott are becoming out of date, test sides will be full of top and middle order players who can score 100-150 at 80% strike rate going forward, Root and Smith are the best examples of what a world class test batsman post T20 looks like.
I am not so sure, I think there is still a place for the doughty batsman.
Smith has an incredible eye and quick hands, but has struggled badly when the ball moves about, though of course he is in good company.
-
Hmm, there goes our only batter capable of getting really big tons, so our lead won't be huge at the end of the innings.
When was Joe Root out?
Ah, I'll give you that. I didn't think he had a test double century. He strikes me as a bit flash harry like Bell. Players like Cook and thw Trott of old were players I felt had the temperament to bat for days.
Players like Cook and Trott are becoming out of date, test sides will be full of top and middle order players who can score 100-150 at 80% strike rate going forward, Root and Smith are the best examples of what a world class test batsman post T20 looks like.
Whenever an England batsman starts scoring mainly in boundaries, I always assume they'll be out soon. Our batters can score fast or lots, but I never trust them to score lots fast. Even KP when in the mood I always thought was about to get out to a daft shot...
-
A green, seaming pitch and Australia have had to bring on Lyon to try to hold up an end.
This is fantastic!
-
I'm going Saturday my fear is I'll only see half a day's cricket.
-
This is excellent from Root and Bairstow.
-
Caught the end of an interview with some Barmy Army leader/spokesman bemoaning the fact they didn't have a stand where there could be a load of them sat together (or something like that) but it wasn't too bad because at least some other cricket fans would be able to sit in them. That was nice of him, they do seen to have a rather puffed up sense of their own importance, England havent done too badly today without their support today.
-
Stat of the day:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLvODlmWcAAD88h.jpg)
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20 odd overs left tonight, this is brilliant viewing. If we can get to the end of it only losing another wicket we will have a 200 lead with some firepower left. I want to see us grind them into oblivion if possible.
-
Delighted for Bairstow, he's in the form of his life and was out to a snorter of a delivery in his only innings and straight away people were writing him off.
-
Lovely knock from Bairstow.
-
Blowers just screamed that Root had been bowled and he was completely wrong.
-
Lovely knock from Bairstow.
Root on 96.
and now its a hundred!
-
Blowers just screamed that Root had been bowled and he was completely wrong.
He's an embarassment these days.
-
Blowers is the pits.
-
Great ton from Root.
-
As a homeworker I really picked the wrong day for an office meeting! Back home now and watching the live coverage. I'm looking forward to the highlights later.
I cannot recall a day of test cricket where we have completely dominated from the 1st ball let alone an Ashes test.
-
Think my dad was right about him all along, he loved cricket on the radio but whenever Blofeld came on he would always turn it off.
-
Think my dad was right about him all along, he loved cricket on the radio but whenever Blofeld came on he would always turn it off.
He's the last of a generation of commentators where the school you went to or the club you're a member of meant you got a plum job at the BBC. I much prefer the modern commentators, most of who are ex-players who give a real insight into what's going on. I particularly like Ed Smith who has the makings of a great commentator. As long as they keep Dagnall off air then I will be more than happy!
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A 200 lead on the first day? How many times has this ever happened?
-
Blowers is also an ex-player. His career was cut short when he was hit by a bus.
Given that, it's surprising that he's fascinated by the bloody things......and cranes.......and pigeons.......and butterflies
Daggers is far worse though
-
Good innings by Bairstow but the decision to send in a nightwatchman is one of the strangest decisions of the day. The Aussies are mentally shot. Sending in the next listed batsman on the scorecard sends a message to the Aussies that their attack does not worry us.
Still who am I to criticise?
-
Blowers is also an ex-player. His career was cut short when he was hit by a bus.
Given that, it's surprising that he's fascinated by the bloody things......and cranes.......and pigeons.......and butterflies
Daggers is far worse though
Did he play first class cricket? I thought he played for Oxford or Cambridge or someone like that. He's a likeable old sod really but he is well past his best. He was virtually lost for words as the wickets tumbled in the first 30 minutes this morning. You could hardly hear him above the noise of the crowd.
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A stunning days cricket from England. I cannot see how the Aussies can come back from this, so the Ashes will be regained sometime on Saturday.
-
Hmm, there goes our only batter capable of getting really big tons, so our lead won't be huge at the end of the innings.
When was Joe Root out?
Ah, I'll give you that. I didn't think he had a test double century. He strikes me as a bit flash harry like Bell. Players like Cook and thw Trott of old were players I felt had the temperament to bat for days.
Players like Cook and Trott are becoming out of date, test sides will be full of top and middle order players who can score 100-150 at 80% strike rate going forward, Root and Smith are the best examples of what a world class test batsman post T20 looks like.
I am not so sure, I think there is still a place for the doughty batsman.
Smith has an incredible eye and quick hands, but has struggled badly when the ball moves about, though of course he is in good company.
What I meant is you won't see many of them after the current generation retire, it's just not how players are going to develop any more, scoring quickly will just be the default.
-
Annoying that Jonny B got out, but super effort from him and Root. What a fantastic day.
-
Jonathon Trott was great when he was on earlier in the summer, Charles Dagnall isn't great it has to be said!
-
On the subject of Blowers, he's related to the Calthorpes who still own most of Edgbaston. His uncle was Freddy Calthorpe who captained England on the first tour of the Caribbean. I never knew that.
-
Phe-bloody-nomenal
-
I've been off work today and have thoroughly enjoyed my day, looking forward to another day off tomorrow!
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I think Vic Marks is a great summariser - he seems to have the ability of making salient points without hogging the limelight, as well as having a marvellous sense of humour.
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Yep he's excellent.
-
Blowers is also an ex-player. His career was cut short when he was hit by a bus.
Given that, it's surprising that he's fascinated by the bloody things......and cranes.......and pigeons.......and butterflies
Daggers is far worse though
Did he play first class cricket? I thought he played for Oxford or Cambridge or someone like that. He's a likeable old sod really but he is well past his best. He was virtually lost for words as the wickets tumbled in the first 30 minutes this morning. You could hardly hear him above the noise of the crowd.
The matches Blowers played for Cambridge were First Class standard
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There was a great clip on the highlights of Chris Broad, Stuart's dad, walking around the boundary and found himself in front of Alan Border. Border is hosting a supporters tour. I don't know what Broad senior said but Border did not look impressed! Broad senior looked very smug.
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I think Vic Marks is a great summariser - he seems to have the ability of making salient points without hogging the limelight, as well as having a marvellous sense of humour.
Vic is the best summariser in my view.
If I was able to spend some time with the TMS team, Vic would be top of my list to chat with.
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The list of records broken today is incredible.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2015/content/story/906895.html
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Blowers is also an ex-player. His career was cut short when he was hit by a bus.
Given that, it's surprising that he's fascinated by the bloody things......and cranes.......and pigeons.......and butterflies
Daggers is far worse though
Did he play first class cricket? I thought he played for Oxford or Cambridge or someone like that. He's a likeable old sod really but he is well past his best. He was virtually lost for words as the wickets tumbled in the first 30 minutes this morning. You could hardly hear him above the noise of the crowd.
The matches Blowers played for Cambridge were First Class standard
I'd forgotten that those games had first class status. Both Oxford & Cambridge were generally very strong.
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WHAT. A. DAY.
absolutely awesome from the bowlers (broad obviously!) and flawless fielding.
Then brilliant knocks from Root and Bairstow. Even Bell wasn't out (ludicrous hawkeye).
It does annoy me that they've sent in a nightwatchman when we are in such a dominant position, but for that to be the only gripe shows what an outrageously good performance we have put in.
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Yep, definitely looks like Hawkeye has taken the track of the ball from when it hit the back pad rather than the front, one for the boffins to look at I think.
Having just watched the highlights, you can quite clearly see something didn't look quite right with the hawk eye tracking. It showed the ball swinging away then suddenly straighten up. Nothing the umpires could really do though I suppose.
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Blowers is also an ex-player. His career was cut short when he was hit by a bus.
Given that, it's surprising that he's fascinated by the bloody things......and cranes.......and pigeons.......and butterflies
Daggers is far worse though
Did he play first class cricket? I thought he played for Oxford or Cambridge or someone like that. He's a likeable old sod really but he is well past his best. He was virtually lost for words as the wickets tumbled in the first 30 minutes this morning. You could hardly hear him above the noise of the crowd.
The matches Blowers played for Cambridge were First Class standard
As an aside, isn't there a story that Blowers' father went to school with Ian Fleming and that is where the name of the Bond villain Blofeld came from?
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It's the end for Michael Clarke.
And his bad back.
Shame.
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That was brilliant, keeper, 5 slips and a leg slip, that's just salt in the wounds.
Six slips.
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One bloke in our office was trying to blame the pitch FFS!
I couldn't keep a straight face. Not happy campers....................
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/cricket/the-ashes-australia-all-out-for-60-in-fourth-test-worst-ashes-collapse-since-1936/story-fnii0bxd-1227473344741
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Blowers is also an ex-player. His career was cut short when he was hit by a bus.
Given that, it's surprising that he's fascinated by the bloody things......and cranes.......and pigeons.......and butterflies
Daggers is far worse though
Did he play first class cricket? I thought he played for Oxford or Cambridge or someone like that. He's a likeable old sod really but he is well past his best. He was virtually lost for words as the wickets tumbled in the first 30 minutes this morning. You could hardly hear him above the noise of the crowd.
The matches Blowers played for Cambridge were First Class standard
As an aside, isn't there a story that Blowers' father went to school with Ian Fleming and that is where the name of the Bond villain Blofeld came from?
That is true.
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From the excellent George Dobell on cricinfo:
This was no horror track. This was, like Edgbaston, what might once have been termed "typical" English conditions. A generation ago, batsmen would have left the ball carefully and attempted to defend with the bat right under their eyes. They would have been happy to go into lunch at 60 for 1 with the bowlers having tired and the ball having aged. Instead, despite several of their top order having experience of county cricket, they pushed, prodded and, in Michael Clarke's case, thrashed at balls as if they had never encountered anything like it. Drowning men have acted with more composure.
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Hoping that root can make a daddy ton today.
And with Stokes, Buttler and Ali to come, hoping for some big hitting entertainment.
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Hoping that root can make a daddy ton today.
And with Stokes, Buttler and Ali to come, hoping for some big hitting entertainment.
Thry have got to get rid of Wood first!!!!
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Haha, here's another one:
Hoping that Wood matches Dizzy Gillespie's highest score which I think was as a nightwatchman.
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Root gone for 130, excellent knock.
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Shame Root couldn't go on and get a big 'un but 130 a good knock
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Root gone for 130, excellent knock.
130 is good but not excellent, even though it was done with style.
Why do England players rarely kick on after passing 100 and get the kind of monster scores that the Saffers, Aussies and Indians seem to produce?
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Root gone for 130, excellent knock.
130 is good but not excellent, even though it was done with style.
Why do England players rarely kick on after passing 100 and get the kind of monster scores that the Saffers, Aussies and Indians seem to produce?
It was excellent given he did it on exactly the same pitch that Australia got bowled out for 60 on.
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Root gone for 130, excellent knock.
130 is good but not excellent, even though it was done with style.
Why do England players rarely kick on after passing 100 and get the kind of monster scores that the Saffers, Aussies and Indians seem to produce?
I think you are being somewhat unkind/critical. I know conditions have changed but he has scored more than double the Aussie output.
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And now Wood gone. It's a full on collapse!
I hope the rest bat the rest of the day out but have a feeling we'll be bowling by lunch. Not good to give the Aussies any chink of light at all, because they are real gits sometimes and can dig themselves out some unlikely holes.
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I hope we can last until 20 minutes before tea - then declare with a lead of 400 +.
Don't forget Wood was a nightwatchman he ain't supposed to hang around that long - made a useful knock....251 lead now
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I can't help thinking that the extremely odd decision to put a nightwatchman in last night has contributed to the poor morning so far. Obviously a minor gripe as we are still in an unbelievably strong position
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Starc has bowled really well throughout this innings in fairness to him
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I said i wanted a 400+ lead we actually probably have enough now to win the game, maybe not by an innings though which is what i would like us to do.
I hate these arrogant f----rs.
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Hmmm, all seems to be going a bit awry this morning. Need to get a lead of 300 to be sure I reckon.
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And now Wood gone. It's a full on collapse!
I hope the rest bat the rest of the day out but have a feeling we'll be bowling by lunch. Not good to give the Aussies any chink of light at all, because they are real gits sometimes and can dig themselves out some unlikely holes.
There's absolutely no reason to think we need to bat out the rest of the day. If you'd have offered us a 250 lead at the end of the 2nd innings after we won the toss everyone would've taken it without a thought, we've already passed that, Australia (other than the top 3) need to bat better than they have all series to even make a 4th innings possible, to make it game on they need to score 450 even if we don't get another run, I just can't see that happening when they only have 3 batsmen with any form and we have 3 fresh bowlers who are perfectly suited to these conditions. You panicked in the last test when we were totally in control and you're doing it again, we're totally on top here and we'd need everything to completely fall apart to change that.
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I said i wanted a 400+ lead we actually probably have enough now to win the game, maybe not by an innings though which is what i would like us to do.
I hate these arrogant f----rs.
We should still get a lead of around 350. Starc surely has to come out of the attack soon.
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This is getting a little bit silly now
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Ah, a good old fashioned England collapse to give the Aussies confidence going into their second innings.
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A little bit braindead batting this morning. Obviously won't affect the outcome, but we really could have ground them into the dirt today and humiliated them. Bit of a shame
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At least the pitch is still doing loads
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Think there's a few harsh opinions on here, this is still good conditions for bowling, there's late swing and Starc is bowling a great spell, rather than worrying about a 'collapse' we should be thinking about the damage we're going to do to them in the 3rd innings if it stays like this.
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Think there's a few harsh opinions on here, this is still good conditions for bowling, there's late swing and Starc is bowling a great spell, rather than worrying about a 'collapse' we should be thinking about the damage we're going to do to them in the 3rd innings if it stays like this.
I'm just still a little pissed off they put a nightwatchman in last night! There really was no need for it.
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Root gone for 130, excellent knock.
130 is good but not excellent, even though it was done with style.
Why do England players rarely kick on after passing 100 and get the kind of monster scores that the Saffers, Aussies and Indians seem to produce?
Australia got to 60 but were unable to push on to get a big hundred on the same wicket. Hope Root isn't going to be too restricted in the future with his back problem.
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Think there's a few harsh opinions on here, this is still good conditions for bowling, there's late swing and Starc is bowling a great spell, rather than worrying about a 'collapse' we should be thinking about the damage we're going to do to them in the 3rd innings if it stays like this.
But I follow England, Paul! So I am more concerned that all the balls that found the edge in the 1st inns beat the bat, we drop Smith and Klaaak when they're on 0 and they both go on to score double tons. Then in the 4th we collapse to 100-odd all out.
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At least the pitch is still doing loads
Conditions favour the bowlers again. I'm not going to see much cricket tomorrow am I?
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Broad is a much better batsman than just wafting the bat out at balls like that.
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This is what worries me: www.espncricinfo.com/ausvpak09/content/story/442690.html
Look how many times the baggy green bastards turn up in that list.
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Think there's a few harsh opinions on here, this is still good conditions for bowling, there's late swing and Starc is bowling a great spell, rather than worrying about a 'collapse' we should be thinking about the damage we're going to do to them in the 3rd innings if it stays like this.
Agree Paul and if someone before the game had offered us a 300 lead (or close to it) after the first innings, we would have snapped their hands off. I just think a lead of 300 may just give the Aussies a little hope (albeit a very small amount), which is frustrating as we could have killed the game today.
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This is what worries me: www.espncricinfo.com/ausvpak09/content/story/442690.html
Look how many times the baggy green bastards turn up in that list.
We're already ahead of the biggest score on that list though, and Ali is batting beautifully. Another 50 runs would mean they need a massive score just to give themselves a slim chance.
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Think there's a few harsh opinions on here, this is still good conditions for bowling, there's late swing and Starc is bowling a great spell, rather than worrying about a 'collapse' we should be thinking about the damage we're going to do to them in the 3rd innings if it stays like this.
Agree Paul and if someone before the game had offered us a 300 lead (or close to it) after the first innings, we would have snapped their hands off. I just think a lead of 300 may just give the Aussies a little hope (albeit a very small amount), which is frustrating as we could have killed the game today.
Obviously i'm over the moon with the match position, and the fact we are about to win back the ashes. I'd have just loved us to bat all day today, and get a lead of over 500. I want us to completely humiliate them. We had more than our fair share of it during the 90's, and even in the last series down under.
I'm just a bit greedy!
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This is what worries me: www.espncricinfo.com/ausvpak09/content/story/442690.html
Look how many times the baggy green bastards turn up in that list.
It's happened 6 times in the history of the game and we've already set a target 28 higher than the biggest in that list with 2 wickets in hand, get a grip, we're totally in control and for them to even stand a chance they need to bat out of their skins and then we need to have the biggest collapse we've ever had.
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If we were all out now, with a lead of 319, even if they scored 500 we'd only need 180 to win.
The fact that they scored 500 would show the pitch was pretty flat.
I don't think we should have any worries here!
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I do think Moeen should be ahead of Buttler in the order at the moment.
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I want us to completely humiliate them. We had more than our fair share of it during the 90's, and even in the last series down under.
I would love it
(http://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/article-1303386931128-0bb8e23000000578-914302_636x377.jpg)
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I do think Moeen should be ahead of Buttler in the order at the moment.
Buttler hasn't scored enough I agree but today he was done by a superb delivery more than anything.
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I'm avoiding the match thread tomorrow. In the unlikely event of Villa being six up some of you still won't be happy. England currently have a first innings lead of 331 against Australia.
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I'm avoiding the match threat tomorrow. In the unlikely event of Villa being six up some of you still won't be happy. England currently have a first innings lead of 331 against Australia.
It's unbelievable isn't it.
Declaration to give us a couple of overs before lunch, I like it.
With these conditions it's not impossible that we'll get 1 of them, which would be fantastic.
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Right, get it won today!
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I think that is brilliant from Cook, 2or 3 overs before lunch to have a go at em.
Warner and Rogers would have been thinking about their upcoming lunch stood there in the field, this will have caught em
off guard. They aint getting anywhere near 500 which is what they need to have any chance.
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I think that is brilliant from Cook, 2or 3 overs before lunch to have a go at em.
Warner and Rogers would have been thinking about their upcoming lunch stood there in the field, this will have caught em
off guard. They aint getting anywhere near 500 which is what they need to have any chance.
I can't see how they'll come close to making us bat again. Pitch is still offering more than enough
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Think there's a few harsh opinions on here, this is still good conditions for bowling, there's late swing and Starc is bowling a great spell, rather than worrying about a 'collapse' we should be thinking about the damage we're going to do to them in the 3rd innings if it stays like this.
Agree Paul and if someone before the game had offered us a 300 lead (or close to it) after the first innings, we would have snapped their hands off. I just think a lead of 300 may just give the Aussies a little hope (albeit a very small amount), which is frustrating as we could have killed the game today.
Obviously i'm over the moon with the match position, and the fact we are about to win back the ashes. I'd have just loved us to bat all day today, and get a lead of over 500. I want us to completely humiliate them. We had more than our fair share of it during the 90's, and even in the last series down under.
I'm just a bit greedy!
To me all out for 60 in a must win game with extras top scoring is as humiliating as anything the aussies have done to us in my time watching.
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I think that is brilliant from Cook, 2or 3 overs before lunch to have a go at em.
Warner and Rogers would have been thinking about their upcoming lunch stood there in the field, this will have caught em
off guard. They aint getting anywhere near 500 which is what they need to have any chance.
I can't see how they'll come close to making us bat again. Pitch is still offering more than enough
Agree 110%
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We're Villa fans, looking on the gloomy side is what we do!
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Pathetic from the umpires, letting Rodgers get away with that
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obscene luck Warner having this over!
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Marvellous over from Broad
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Aggers made an interesting point on TMS about Cook and captaincy. As we look set to regain the Ashes it means that Cook will probably stay on for another couple of years. If we'd have lost the series then Cook would have gone and Root made captain. I think that it's inevitable that Root will captain England, but another couple of years as vice captain will help his development both as a player and more importantly as a future captain.
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I do think Moeen should be ahead of Buttler in the order at the moment.
Looking ahead to the next series in UAE (bit premature I know!), there might be the possibility of Buttler going out of the side, Bairstow keeping wicket, Moeen moving up to 7 and Rashid or another spinner coming in.
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If we were all out now, with a lead of 319, even if they scored 500 we'd only need 180 to win.
The fact that they scored 500 would show the pitch was pretty flat.
I don't think we should have any worries here!
I'm not sure I would be putting my mortgage on this England side chasing down 180 and it would be a horribly nervy finish. The Aussies are going to have do something very special to even get near that position though.
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poor review I think
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yep. very poor review
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I'd take Wood off and bring Finn on.
I am getting a bit twitchy.
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Cook drops a dolly.
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Poor drop their from Cook.
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I'd take Wood off and bring Finn on.
I am getting a bit twitchy.
Patience will win out. We won't have another day like yesterday but will still comfortably win the test.
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I thought i'd come back on have a look to see if the doubters are out in force....no need for anyone to get twitchy as VFL says above Patience will win out.
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It's strange that our bowlers have been on top of them on numerous occasions but we still concede lots of runs quickly. 5 an over at the moment. It's like our attack is based on Ossie Ardiles' Spurs team.
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I like Wood, but don't think he's a new ball bowler at test level just yet.
Was a poor drop from Cook
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It's strange that our bowlers have been on top of them on numerous occasions but we still concede lots of runs quickly. 5 an over at the moment. It's like our attack is based on Ossie Ardiles' Spurs team.
Cook has understandably set a very attacking field so runs are available.
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And apart from Broad not sure we have bowled that well.
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Warner dropped twice now.
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I know he's a Villa fan and all that but an equally poor drop from Bell.
Broad not getting any wickets so far must mean he's in danger of losing his place in the next Test along with Cook, Bell etc
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I know he's a Villa fan and all that but an equally poor drop from Bell.
Broad not getting any wickets so far must mean he's in danger of losing his place in the next Test along with Cook, Bell etc
I don't think Bell's was an easy chance.
Stokes looking a bit more threatening.
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Come on England, the way this is going Aus will have a lead by tomorrow lunchtime with none down!
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We have some quality players and our attack is pretty good. The only weakness is the lack of a quality spinner. Moeen has bowled some dross so far. It doesn't take much for Cook to lose confidence in him and remove him from the attack which means an increased workload on the other bowlers.
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I know he's a Villa fan and all that but an equally poor drop from Bell.
Broad not getting any wickets so far must mean he's in danger of losing his place in the next Test along with Cook, Bell etc
I don't think Bell's was an easy chance.
Stokes looking a bit more threatening.
To be fair i love Belly but that was in his hand for a while and just failed to hang on to it....should have.
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Root can share the spinning duties.
The Aussies are showing again why they are the cockroaches of the cricket world. They just won't fkin die goddammit!
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At last!!!!....oh no!!!!
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Blowers has just got it wrong in two consecutive balls. Neither time was Rogers out. As Boycott said!
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very frustrating from Wood, for me overstepping with the front foot is inexcusable at this level.
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Rogers has gone!
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At last......(no oh no this time)
Rogers at last goes another great catch from Root.
Battling 52 from Rogers
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I know he's a Villa fan and all that but an equally poor drop from Bell.
Broad not getting any wickets so far must mean he's in danger of losing his place in the next Test along with Cook, Bell etc
I don't think Bell's was an easy chance.
It was in his hand and compared to the ones Stokes and Root held it was an easy catch.
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That seemed another no ball there didn't it.
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I know he's a Villa fan and all that but an equally poor drop from Bell.
Broad not getting any wickets so far must mean he's in danger of losing his place in the next Test along with Cook, Bell etc
I don't think Bell's was an easy chance.
It was in his hand and compared to the ones Stokes and Root held it was an easy catch.
Compared to the Stokes catch just about anything would be easy.
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He should have held it. It does seem unfair on the bowlers that umpires seem to rely on replays in the event of wickets falling to signify a no ball, Atgerton has just made the point that Wood has bowled at least 8 no balls in this innings and none have been called so they aren't going to adjust their run up.
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He should have held it. It does seem unfair on the bowlers that umpires seem to rely on replays in the event of wickets falling to signify a no ball, Atgerton has just made the point that Wood has bowled at least 8 no balls in this innings and none have been called so they aren't going to adjust their run up.
I think low down one-handed and at speed is a tough chance.
Anyhow Warner gone now.
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Warner has given his wkt away there.
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Oh dear!
What a poor shot my Marsh....they are falling now ain't they.
Stokes doing really well here.
Even better now - can't keep Stokes out the game at the moment.
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Love the way each of our attack have took it turns to rip through the Australian top order this season.
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Let's be honest, the Aussies could quite easily be 5 or so down now. England have this well in control. I see an innings win coming up.
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That's why, for all his big runs, Warner isn't world class. He's too stupid. 1 shot like that and you just call it as having got big on him but he got a 6 a few balls before trying exactly the same thing.
Then Marsh fails again, what a poor decision bringing him in looks in hindsight.
And there goes Smith, good delivery with them under pressure and another superb catch by Stokes.
The events of the last 10-15 minutes perfectly back up the sensible people who were calling for patience when Warner and Rogers were putting on some runs, it was never going last.
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Paul, I completely agree with you on Warner. He's a great bully of a player. If they're on top he will pulverise the opposition and put the game beyond them. With backs to the walls, I don't think he'd be around long enough. Smith is never the worlds best bastman either.
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Watching the dropped catches, Cook one is a stinker, The Bell one is tough but you'd hope it would've stuck.
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And a big thank you to Paddy Power for paying out early on Ashes betting.
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And a big thank you to Paddy Power for paying out early on Ashes betting.
I don't know what those words mean.
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The sight of Clarke trudging off would normally bring great joy (considering some of his past discretions), but I do feel some sympathy for him. I just wonder how much strain the events of the past year have put on him personally, especially as he was the one who faced the cameras. He has looked a beaten man from the start of the series.
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I find it hard to dislike Clarke, in fact I like him. I just make sure Warner gets double.
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Why oh why don't umpires keep a watchful eye on overstepping by the bowlers, if they no ball call it don't just check
when we get a wkt the bowlers can't do nowt about it....twice now happened today.
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England determined to take 25 wickets in the match.
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Moeen's bowling has really gone downhill this summer. Whether that's due to a lack of overs, or lack of talent I'm not sure. At the moment though, he is nowhere near a test quality spinner
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Good stuff from Stokes. Has bowled really well today
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Congratulations to Australia for reaching 300 for the loss of only 17 (seventeen) wickets.
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As someone else has mentioned it's really good to see different bowlers stepping up to the plate in successive innings. Wood and Moeen to get five fors at the Oval?
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I find it hard to dislike Clarke, in fact I like him. I just make sure Warner gets double.
Oh no, I can't stand him, seems a complete "hard when he's with his mates in his back yard" bellend.
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Moeen is suffering from lack of bowling, but his form with the bat has been critical to our success. Excellent from Stokes today.
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It is funny...I don't like Clarke but did like Ponting.
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After all their antics, cockiness and general loudmouth behaviour, constantly taking the piss and acting like hard men down under, the Aussies and especially Clarke can fuck off.
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This whole no ball thing is frustrating. At one time umpires used to warn bowlers when they were getting close to overstepping. It was not part of the rules but fell under one of those "spirit of cricket" things, like a bowler warning a batsman who is backing up too far. If the bowler continued to overstep then no ball was called.
Now umpires don't even look for a front foot no ball and only check when a wicket falls. This is wrong. A bowler who has been warned or have been called for overstepping will change their run up so they no longer overstep. It spoils the natural ebb and flow of the game. It's not that long ago when Gladstone Small was bowling 18 ball overs due to overstepping. I can also remember Bob Willis having problems with overstepping in the 1981 Ashes. That would not happen now and it is wrong that a basic rule of the game is ignored.
Clearly the umpires stand too far back so it is difficult for them to check. There are enough cameras in the ground for the third umpire to check every ball and feed that information to the on-field umpire. Come on ICC sort it out!
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It is funny...I don't like Clarke but did like Ponting.
I always liked Punter too. As a cricket fan I've always liked quality players regardless of their nationality. Ponting, Warne, McGrath may play for the enemy but they were wonderful players even when they were hammering us.
I've no thoughts either way about Clarke but do like it that his own people don't like him. The captain of the Aussie cricket team is a huge role in Oz, probably second only to the Prime Minister. They haven't taken to him at all and he's not that popular in his own dressing room.
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It is funny...I don't like Clarke but did like Ponting.
I always liked Punter too. As a cricket fan I've always liked quality players regardless of their nationality. Ponting, Warne, McGrath may play for the enemy but they were wonderful players even when they were hammering us.
I've no thoughts either way about Clarke but do like it that his own people don't like him. The captain of the Aussie cricket team is a huge role in Oz, probably second only to the Prime Minister. They haven't taken to him at all and he's not that popular in his own dressing room.
Ponting was an amazing player to watch, and getting his wicket was really the Holy Grail for a long time. With Clarke he seems so hit an miss. And whilst Smith undoubtedly has an incredible eye, i think there is something comforting about a game that means that the basics are so essential to success. On pitches doing rock all, he is an exciting stroke player, but on a different pitch with lateral movement he looks a walking wicket. It is also all the sweeter, as at the star of the season he said we wouldn't get close to them.
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It is funny...I don't like Clarke but did like Ponting.
I always liked Punter too. As a cricket fan I've always liked quality players regardless of their nationality. Ponting, Warne, McGrath may play for the enemy but they were wonderful players even when they were hammering us.
I've no thoughts either way about Clarke but do like it that his own people don't like him. The captain of the Aussie cricket team is a huge role in Oz, probably second only to the Prime Minister. They haven't taken to him at all and he's not that popular in his own dressing room.
Ponting was an amazing player to watch, and getting his wicket was really the Holy Grail for a long time. With Clarke he seems so hit an miss. And whilst Smith undoubtedly has an incredible eye, i think there is something comforting about a game that means that the basics are so essential to success. On pitches doing rock all, he is an exciting stroke player, but on a different pitch with lateral movement he looks a walking wicket. It is also all the sweeter, as at the star of the season he said we wouldn't get close to them.
I've been disappointed with the form of the number one ranked batsman in the world, as you say he's a walking wicket. His innings at Lords aside he's looked very poor.
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There aren't many cricketers i've really not liked, I could never hate Ponting as I enjoyed watching him bat, two off the top of my head that I never liked for whatever reason were Dominic Cork and Dermot Reeve.
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There aren't many cricketers i've really not liked, I could never hate Ponting as I enjoyed watching him bat, two off the top of my head that I never liked for whatever reason were Dominic Cork and Dermot Reeve.
Saying you have never liked Dermot Reeve on a site where most of the fans who are interested in cricket are Warwickshire supporters is like saying you have never liked Len Hutton or Fred Trueman on a Leeds United site. Fair play to you.
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There aren't many cricketers i've really not liked, I could never hate Ponting as I enjoyed watching him bat, two off the top of my head that I never liked for whatever reason were Dominic Cork and Dermot Reeve.
I hated Derek Pringle.
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I never liked Javid Miandad but I don't think I'm alone in that!
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There aren't many cricketers i've really not liked, I could never hate Ponting as I enjoyed watching him bat, two off the top of my head that I never liked for whatever reason were Dominic Cork and Dermot Reeve.
I hated Derek Pringle.
I was just to post the very same thing. Not for any reason other than he was crap, and was around when I used to go to Edgbaston a fair bit in the early 90s.
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There aren't many cricketers i've really not liked, I could never hate Ponting as I enjoyed watching him bat, two off the top of my head that I never liked for whatever reason were Dominic Cork and Dermot Reeve.
I hated Derek Pringle.
I was just to post the very same thing. Not for any reason other than he was crap, and was around when I used to go to Edgbaston a fair bit in the early 90s.
A fat, average ponce.
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There aren't many cricketers i've really not liked, I could never hate Ponting as I enjoyed watching him bat, two off the top of my head that I never liked for whatever reason were Dominic Cork and Dermot Reeve.
Saying you have never liked Dermot Reeve on a site where most of the fans who are interested in cricket are Warwickshire supporters is like saying you have never liked Len Hutton or Fred Trueman on a Leeds United site. Fair play to you.
A mate of mine told me he was stood next to a group of Leeds supporters at a London away match and they were giving the Cockneys the usual abuse only they had very strong cockernee accents themselves. Always imagined Reeve as the sort to frequent poncy wine bars with his shirt opened to the waist winking at the ladies and playing the big time *ahem* charlie.
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There aren't many cricketers i've really not liked, I could never hate Ponting as I enjoyed watching him bat, two off the top of my head that I never liked for whatever reason were Dominic Cork and Dermot Reeve.
Saying you have never liked Dermot Reeve on a site where most of the fans who are interested in cricket are Warwickshire supporters is like saying you have never liked Len Hutton or Fred Trueman on a Leeds United site. Fair play to you.
A mate of mine told me he was stood next to a group of Leeds supporters at a London away match and they were giving the Cockneys the usual abuse only they had very strong cockernee accents themselves. Always imagined Reeve as the sort to frequent poncy wine bars with his shirt opened to the waist winking at the ladies and playing the big time *ahem* charlie.
He was well known for frequenting bars around Five Ways/Hagley Road wearing his Bears match shirt with his name on the back.
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There aren't many cricketers i've really not liked, I could never hate Ponting as I enjoyed watching him bat, two off the top of my head that I never liked for whatever reason were Dominic Cork and Dermot Reeve.
I hated Derek Pringle.
I was just to post the very same thing. Not for any reason other than he was crap, and was around when I used to go to Edgbaston a fair bit in the early 90s.
A fat, average ponce.
Agreed, useless bastard who only got in because he was mates with Gooch
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There aren't many cricketers i've really not liked, I could never hate Ponting as I enjoyed watching him bat, two off the top of my head that I never liked for whatever reason were Dominic Cork and Dermot Reeve.
Saying you have never liked Dermot Reeve on a site where most of the fans who are interested in cricket are Warwickshire supporters is like saying you have never liked Len Hutton or Fred Trueman on a Leeds United site. Fair play to you.
A mate of mine told me he was stood next to a group of Leeds supporters at a London away match and they were giving the Cockneys the usual abuse only they had very strong cockernee accents themselves. Always imagined Reeve as the sort to frequent poncy wine bars with his shirt opened to the waist winking at the ladies and playing the big time *ahem* charlie.
He was well known for frequenting bars around Five Ways/Hagley Road wearing his Bears match shirt with his name on the back.d a story
Once heard a story that he holds the 'record' for the number of 'conquests' on an England tour (said tour being in New Zealand).
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There aren't many cricketers i've really not liked, I could never hate Ponting as I enjoyed watching him bat, two off the top of my head that I never liked for whatever reason were Dominic Cork and Dermot Reeve.
Saying you have never liked Dermot Reeve on a site where most of the fans who are interested in cricket are Warwickshire supporters is like saying you have never liked Len Hutton or Fred Trueman on a Leeds United site. Fair play to you.
A mate of mine told me he was stood next to a group of Leeds supporters at a London away match and they were giving the Cockneys the usual abuse only they had very strong cockernee accents themselves. Always imagined Reeve as the sort to frequent poncy wine bars with his shirt opened to the waist winking at the ladies and playing the big time *ahem* charlie.
He was well known for frequenting bars around Five Ways/Hagley Road wearing his Bears match shirt with his name on the back.
That comes as no surprise whatsoever.
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I never liked Javid Miandad but I don't think I'm alone in that!
I never liked that Brian McMillan geezer that used to play for South Africa. Had a mullet and came across as a really unpleasant and niggly character.
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There aren't many cricketers i've really not liked, I could never hate Ponting as I enjoyed watching him bat, two off the top of my head that I never liked for whatever reason were Dominic Cork and Dermot Reeve.
Saying you have never liked Dermot Reeve on a site where most of the fans who are interested in cricket are Warwickshire supporters is like saying you have never liked Len Hutton or Fred Trueman on a Leeds United site. Fair play to you.
A mate of mine told me he was stood next to a group of Leeds supporters at a London away match and they were giving the Cockneys the usual abuse only they had very strong cockernee accents themselves. Always imagined Reeve as the sort to frequent poncy wine bars with his shirt opened to the waist winking at the ladies and playing the big time *ahem* charlie.
He was well known for frequenting bars around Five Ways/Hagley Road wearing his Bears match shirt with his name on the back.
That comes as no surprise whatsoever.
Around the members' bars at Edgbaston, photographs of him grinning and holding up trophies are all over the gaffe. It is true that he looks like a grinning, lascivious lothario, but I remember similar tales about Fred Trueman, not to mention stories of Not Sir Geoff Boycott knocking five shades of crap out of his girlfriend in France.
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Da Beeb
The second ball of Stokes's second over in the Australian second innings was the 1,000,000th legal delivery bowled in Test cricket in England.
As if to join in with the celebration of this milestone, Australian opener Warner punched it down the ground and past mid-on for four during that opening stand of 113.
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Da Beeb
The second ball of Stokes's second over in the Australian second innings was the 1,000,000th legal delivery bowled in Test cricket in England.
As if to join in with the celebration of this milestone, Australian opener Warner punched it down the ground and past mid-on for four during that opening stand of 113.
On sky David Lloyd was going on about for ages before teasing that there was a milestone coming up and then just before he could say what it was they put it on the screen in the ground.
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I never liked Javid Miandad but I don't think I'm alone in that!
I never liked that Brian McMillan geezer that used to play for South Africa. Had a mullet and came across as a really unpleasant and niggly character.
Had one season playing for Bears in 1986....i can't really remember how he got on for us......can't be arsed to look it up.
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Da Beeb
The second ball of Stokes's second over in the Australian second innings was the 1,000,000th legal delivery bowled in Test cricket in England.
As if to join in with the celebration of this milestone, Australian opener Warner punched it down the ground and past mid-on for four during that opening stand of 113.
I know Cricket is a game full of statistics but that one is mental.
Who keeps records of these things.
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It is funny...I don't like Clarke but did like Ponting.
i hated Ponting until 2009 ( I think it was) when he copped that one in the chops fielding close in just before lunch and was spitting blood. He made nothing of it, brushed it off and carried on til lunch. He massively went up in my estimation then. Clarke was maybe a better captain tactically, but the old school Aussies have never really been convinced by him as a captain although his batting is hugely respected here. His time has come and I think you'll see steve smith step up for the next series and a huge clear out of the side. Very UN-Australian-like, but I think it will happen. Also think they'll probably ditch Lehmann and maybe the selectors won't even be safe.
Was in the pub yesterday afternoon and one old boy (late 50's maybe early 60's) when we were talking about the cricket snarled, and I mean snarled: "it's a Fackin Disgrace" music to my ears, old mate!
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Gideon Haigh said that whilst Clarke is a better captain, Cook is the better leader, which I thought was a very good point.
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Never liked Ponting. Respected him as a player but thought he was a petulant Captain whenever things went against him. I mean, how hard was it to Captain with Warne and McGrath in the side.
Never liked Clarke either despite him carrying himself an awful lot better than Pontingever did. However, he went up a lot in my estimations with the way he handled the whole Phil Hughes tragedy, the way he represented the team etc.
Clarke has looked like a different person since then, lost the spark, rarely smiles, batting forms been poor. I think it's taken a lot out of him.
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I think you're right there, Clark always used to wear a smile, it's more the clenched jaw these days when he's facing the media. I take that as a sign england have the better of him. Fuck knows they had the better of us in the last series.
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It's currently being reported that Clarke is set to announce his retirement at the conclusion of the current series. Hardly a major shock. With Clarke and Rodgers going, Voges not seemingly up to it, Haddin and Watson virtually gone it seems yet again the Aussies will have to rebuild.
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My pleas for today 1 more wkt each for Broad (10 in match) Stokes 6 wkts in match so that the record that only got equalled in the last
test - 2 English bowlers getting 6 wkts in a match, a record that had previously stood since Headingley 1981
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In the interest of balance I never liked Boycott at Yorkshire but think he's excellent as a summariser. Used to like watching Vaughan as a player but as a person I cannot stand the bloke. For some reason James Taylor irritates me but I think that is just me being heightist.
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My pleas for today 1 more wkt each for Broad (10 in match) Stokes 6 wkts in match so that the record that only got equalled in the last
test - 2 English bowlers getting 6 wkts in a match, a record that had previously stood since Headingley 1981
That's the record sorted early doors....come on now Broady get your 10fer
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If Stokes were to get the other 2 what record must that surely break 2 England bowlers getting 8 fers in same match????
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It's currently being reported that Clarke is set to announce his retirement at the conclusion of the current series. Hardly a major shock. With Clarke and Rodgers going, Voges not seemingly up to it, Haddin and Watson virtually gone it seems yet again the Aussies will have to rebuild.
I guess it comes down to the emotional toll that the last nine months have probably had on him. Otherwise, the cupboard's bare enough (at least so it seems - we don't seem to have a lot of convincing candidates on standby) that he probably would've been worth persisting with, given that 34 isn't exactly ancient and he would've had it easier on the roads we seem to put out regularly now.
Our batting really does look in the shitter now though. Warner and Smith I both expect will bounce back, but that leaves three spots to fill. Voges isn't bad, but he's not quite good enough to justify retaining at his age.
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Brilliant, shedding a little tear here. Last time I did that was at the end of the semi at Wembley where I was comforted by some Villa fans around me
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Well done chaps. A clinical demolition.
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41 minutes.....that's one hell of a beating.
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Brilliant stuff. The outlook for English cricket is really bright and to think a few months ago all the talk was about Pietersen. That one can now be put to bed once and for all.
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Stick that in your whatever Piers Moron, Pietersen and all you naysayers and doom merchants!
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Michael Clarke has just resigned on Australian tv.
He'll Captain at The Oval and retire afterwards.
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3 very good tests from England. New Zealand batsmen unsurprisingly coped better than the Aussies with the moving ball.
Pros
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Cook being more positive
Roots batting
Stokes becoming a genuine quality all rounder, capable of brutal batting and real pacey swing bowling
Moeen's batting, he needs to go on and score more though
Wood looks a decent change bowler
Broad, his batting is coming back little by little and his bowling is still up there
Finn, still lacks a bit of control but is getting back to his best
Anderson, king of swing
When we've got on top of the Aussies we've ground them down and finished them off, no more big stands from the lower middle and tail, which has cost us in the past
Cons
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Lyth's decision making outside off stump. I'd give him another series
Moeen's bowling has been targeted and he's bowling a bad ball an over
Buttler went in to his shell a bit, not the Buttler we were expecting
Bell, aside from his catching, which has been pretty poor his batting is still not up to scratch
All in all it's a good series especially with the late coaching changes, we've won 5 of the last 7, Australia haven't won a series in England for 14 years.
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A good series is a bit harsh. We've been fantastic and hammered what was seen as an excellent side. But harsh to ask Moeen to go on and score more. He's batting 8.
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I'll be honest, I didn't give us hat much of a chance before the series but once Ryan Harris announced his retirement the bowling dynamic changed for Australia.
I'm really going to enjoy this after the mercilous stick we got 18 months ago.
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I actually don't mind Clarke and he's been a hell of a player.
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I actually don't mind Clarke and he's been a hell of a player.
He gave a lovely speech, brought a tear to my eye.
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A good series is a bit harsh. We've been fantastic and hammered what was seen as an excellent side. But harsh to ask Moeen to go on and score more. He's batting 8.
Haha maybe I underplayed it a bit, we have played very very well. As for Moeen, when I see some of the shots he plays.. I think he's capable of getting more than 40's.
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Well done England, always superb to win the Ashes. I have to say that the bowlers excelled with some stand out performances.
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A good series is a bit harsh. We've been fantastic and hammered what was seen as an excellent side. But harsh to ask Moeen to go on and score more. He's batting 8.
Haha maybe I underplayed it a bit, we have played very very well. As for Moeen, when I see some of the shots he plays.. I think he's capable of getting more than 40's.
Yes but he's playing those shots because he's at 8 batting with the tail.
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Great way to start Saturday. I feared the worst after Lords but what a way to come back, the last 2 test matches have been superb from England.
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It's been a while since the whole unit has backed each other up so well. Every bowler, including Moeen in the first test has chipped in with some devastating spells.
Broad 21 wkts at 18
Anderson 10 wkts at 27
Finn 9 wkts at 20
Wood 9 wkts at 36
Ali 9 wkts at 49
Stokes 8 wkts at 29
6 bowlers all chipping in, really good unit that.
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A good series is a bit harsh. We've been fantastic and hammered what was seen as an excellent side. But harsh to ask Moeen to go on and score more. He's batting 8.
Haha maybe I underplayed it a bit, we have played very very well. As for Moeen, when I see some of the shots he plays.. I think he's capable of getting more than 40's.
Yes but he's playing those shots because he's at 8 batting with the tail.
You have a point. Maybe in the form he's shown he could have switched places with Buttler but I'm just nitpicking. We've done the Aussies and that's all that matters.
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Well done to every Engkand player, the coaches and the grounds man at Edgbaston and Trent Bridge. A very goodall round effort.
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Whilst I'm overjoyed at whipping the aussies, it's a bit disappointing that were 4 tests down and move of them have been a real contest.
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Yes agreed specially in the last two where Saturday and Sunday have been wiped out with lack of cricket for supporters.
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Thrilled to regain the Ashes and I really feel pleased for Cook. He seems to be a thoroughly decent bloke and has been through some shitty times during the 600-odd days since the end of the last Ashes series. Lesser men would have walked away so fair play to him and it's good to see him come good again.
That's Ian Bell's fifth Ashes series win. After the 2005 series, the squad all got MBE's. He must be in line for a knighthood now!
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Despite not being a Clarke fan he came across well in the interview....there were tears all round and I ended up with something in my eye too.
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Yes agreed specially in the last two where Saturday and Sunday have been wiped out with lack of cricket for supporters.
Fack that.
Good to see the Australians humiliated.
The two wins that England accrued in 2005 and 2009 were in really tight series, so the Aussies could leave with their heads held high and a fair bit of credit. Even in 2013, 3-0 probably wasn't a fair reflection of the contest.
This time, they emerge with very little credit.
They can't blame the pitches, weather, substitute fielders or any other bobbins. They have nowhere to hide.
I feel for people like Rogers and even Clarke, to an extent. Though he blotted his copybook with some of his carry-on in the last series down under.
But there are quite a few arseholes in that team. I hope they are crying into their ale tonight.
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This was so much better than 2013. The team that won in 2013 had become arrogant, aloof and far too self contained. They also played a pretty dull side. This side plays with real flair and take gambles. They also come across as a lot more humble and have a better connection with the fans. I'm really pleased to see Stokes emerging as the brilliant player he was always going to become.
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Incidentally I think there's half a chance that if Lyth fails at the Oval our next opener with be Moeen.
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And that would allow us to play Rashid against Pakistan.
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Incidentally I think there's half a chance that if Lyth fails at the Oval our next opener with be Moeen.
I'd give him a go and then pick another spinner down at 8.
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Incidentally I think there's half a chance that if Lyth fails at the Oval our next opener with be Moeen.
I'd give him a go and then pick another spinner down at 8.
That is the problem; finding another spinner.
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Incidentally I think there's half a chance that if Lyth fails at the Oval our next opener with be Moeen.
I'd give him a go and then pick another spinner down at 8.
That is the problem; finding another spinner.
Rashid should get a go.
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Incidentally I think there's half a chance that if Lyth fails at the Oval our next opener with be Moeen.
I'd give him a go and then pick another spinner down at 8.
That is the problem; finding another spinner.
I would have thought Rashid will be the next spinner that they will try. We will need two spinners in the UAE against Pakistan. I'm not sure who else would be on contention after Rashid and Moeen.
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Incidentally I think there's half a chance that if Lyth fails at the Oval our next opener with be Moeen.
I'd give him a go and then pick another spinner down at 8.
That is the problem; finding another spinner.
I would have thought Rashid will be the next spinner that they will try. We will need two spinners in the UAE against Pakistan. I'm not sure who else would be on contention after Rashid and Moeen.
I'd give Kerrigan another look, I've been impressed whenever I've seen him at county level.
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Yes agreed specially in the last two where Saturday and Sunday have been wiped out with lack of cricket for supporters.
I'd much rather England have the series wrapped up than have the matches all go into a fourth or fifth day. No pleasing some folk, we turn in three great performances and wrap the series up when many didn't give us a prayer and people are moaning because we do it too quickly!
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Rashid scored another century today so he could easily play at 8!
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Yes agreed specially in the last two where Saturday and Sunday have been wiped out with lack of cricket for supporters.
I'd much rather England have the series wrapped up than have the matches all go into a fourth or fifth day. No pleasing some folk, we turn in three great performances and wrap the series up when many didn't give us a prayer and people are moaning because we do it too quickly!
Yes. Particularly given the fine margins involved where much depends on the psychology. We weren't just defeated at Lords, we were hammered, and you cannot afford to give them even a glimpse of light at the end of the tunnel.
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I think Moeen opening would be a good option. He's spent most of his career at the top of the order.
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I think they will stick with Lyth. In his first series he scored a ton against a decent Kiwi attack. Starting an Ashes series in your 3rd test is a pretty big challenge. No other series produces a similar level of pressure. They will stick with him for a couple more series yet.
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If he fails at the Oval I really doubt they will. He's not learning from his mistakes and that's the problem.
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Both Rashid and Ali are not good enough spinners to do any damage to Pakistan in UAE and their spinners are much better and you can guess how the pitches will be prepared.
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Yes agreed specially in the last two where Saturday and Sunday have been wiped out with lack of cricket for supporters.
I'd much rather England have the series wrapped up than have the matches all go into a fourth or fifth day. No pleasing some folk, we turn in three great performances and wrap the series up when many didn't give us a prayer and people are moaning because we do it too quickly!
No no one is moaning. The result and competitive cricket are two separate things. Good to see Aussies lose but Sport is supposed to be competitive and always better when fought to the end. Flintoff/Lee situation perfectly illustrated that.
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It depends really. If you're playing so well that it makes all the opposition crumble that's pretty enjoyable. I imagine the fans of the great Windies and Aussie teams enjoyed their success.
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Yes agreed specially in the last two where Saturday and Sunday have been wiped out with lack of cricket for supporters.
I'd much rather England have the series wrapped up than have the matches all go into a fourth or fifth day. No pleasing some folk, we turn in three great performances and wrap the series up when many didn't give us a prayer and people are moaning because we do it too quickly!
No no one is moaning. The result and competitive cricket are two separate things. Good to see Aussies lose but Sport is supposed to be competitive and always better when fought to the end. Flintoff/Lee situation perfectly illustrated that.
If Australia beat us 5-0 after five close and competitive Tests they wouldn't be gloating and everybody wouldn't be calling us the worst Test side ever, is that what you're saying? I love a great five day Test but equally love the fact it's taken us just over two days to thrash them.
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I understand the argument Olaftab is making but top level sport can be very unforgiving and when a team on the up meets one in decline this is what can happen. I think the confidence this will give to the home side will be massive.
The odd thing is that I don't think anyone saw it coming. The Aussies came into the series as clear favourites and yet will go home with several players fearful for their place and with a new captain to find, such has been the dominance England have had.
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The 14 man squad for the Oval is:
Cook, Ali, Anderson, Bairstow, Bell, Broad, Buttler, Finn, Lyth, Plunkett, Rashid, Root, Stokes and Wood
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I understand the argument Olaftab is making but top level sport can be very unforgiving and when a team on the up meets one in decline this is what can happen. I think the confidence this will give to the home side will be massive.
The odd thing is that I don't think anyone saw it coming. The Aussies came into the series as clear favourites and yet will go home with several players fearful for their place and with a new captain to find, such has been the dominance England have had.
I'd like to make an objection, I said before the first test that I thought all their runs were in the top 3. I genuinely thought that we would win if we could get 2-3 early wickets more often than not because the respective middle orders are chalk and cheese. Lords did make me nervous though.
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Can see the arguments for including Rashid ahead of the UAE tour.
But the Australians are currently down at present so keep them down, would be my thinking. 3-2 makes the series seem quite close, when it has been anything but.
The Oval might turn more than some other English grounds, but it is hardly Nagpur.
Most of the Australians have mentioned how hard they have found it to deal with the England attack.
The danger is Rashid comes in, they get after him and dent his confidence ahead of the Pakistan series -when he will have a crucial role.
Even the likes of Udal and Tredwell have got a stack of wickets on the sub continent, so if Rashid can't do it over there, he should be nowhere near international selection. A runout at the Oval isn't going to tell us a whole lot prior to that.
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Subject to fitness, I would select the same XI for the Oval test. I wouldn't risk Jimmy ahead of a busy winter and would also go all out for a win.
Consider what the Aussies would do if they were 3-1 up with a test to play. They'd be going all out for a victory to really ram home their superiority. We should do the same. They're there for the taking and we should look to do to them what they would do to us if they had the chance.
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Subject to fitness, I would select the same XI for the Oval test. I wouldn't risk Jimmy ahead of a busy winter and would also go all out for a win.
Consider what the Aussies would do if they were 3-1 up with a test to play. They'd be going all out for a victory to really ram home their superiority. We should do the same. They're there for the taking and we should look to do to them what they would do to us if they had the chance.
Totally agree, it's still an Ashes test match, send them packing 4-1. That said, I would drop Lyth and put Ali up there, bring in Rashid.
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There is a great photo on Twitter of Billy Root's brother acting as twelfth man and taking the drinks on to reciprocate the actions of Billy at the Test at a local league match today.
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Incidentally I think there's half a chance that if Lyth fails at the Oval our next opener with be Moeen.
Are you a journalist by any chance because there was one on the Talksport cricket show last night saying exactly that!! He seemed to think that it is being seriously considered, but my concern would be that it would curb Ali's attacking instincts which have been so prominent in this series. His partnerships with Broad at Edgbaston and Trent Bridge were crucial and I think being a bit further down the order has allowed him a bit of freedom.
Maybe have him opening in the ODI series with Hales and see how it goes.
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Subject to fitness, I would select the same XI for the Oval test. I wouldn't risk Jimmy ahead of a busy winter and would also go all out for a win.
Consider what the Aussies would do if they were 3-1 up with a test to play. They'd be going all out for a victory to really ram home their superiority. We should do the same. They're there for the taking and we should look to do to them what they would do to us if they had the chance.
I agree that Jimmy shouldn't be risked. I would really like to see how Rashid goes in test cricket though and I think that could be worked by resting Buttler (with Bairstow keeping wicket), moving Ali up to 7 and bring Rashid in at 8. It would be a bit harsh to make changes though.
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In the latest edition of Ashes cricket play has got underway at Kent in the Womens Test Match, Australia winning the toss
and batting.
Currently 8-0
Villan(i) 4
Bolton 4
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Incidentally I think there's half a chance that if Lyth fails at the Oval our next opener with be Moeen.
Are you a journalist by any chance because there was one on the Talksport cricket show last night saying exactly that!! He seemed to think that it is being seriously considered, but my concern would be that it would curb Ali's attacking instincts which have been so prominent in this series. His partnerships with Broad at Edgbaston and Trent Bridge were crucial and I think being a bit further down the order has allowed him a bit of freedom.
Maybe have him opening in the ODI series with Hales and see how it goes.
Ha I wish I was a journalist. I can't think of many better jobs than being a cricket journalist.
On Ali I guess there is that element of risk, but I think it's worth a try with no obvious alternatives at the moment.
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I don't think Jimmy should be considered for the next game, it's just not worth the risk.
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Incidentally I think there's half a chance that if Lyth fails at the Oval our next opener with be Moeen.
Are you a journalist by any chance because there was one on the Talksport cricket show last night saying exactly that!! He seemed to think that it is being seriously considered, but my concern would be that it would curb Ali's attacking instincts which have been so prominent in this series. His partnerships with Broad at Edgbaston and Trent Bridge were crucial and I think being a bit further down the order has allowed him a bit of freedom.
Maybe have him opening in the ODI series with Hales and see how it goes.
Ha I wish I was a journalist. I can't think of many better jobs than being a cricket journalist.
On Ali I guess there is that element of risk, but I think it's worth a try with no obvious alternatives at the moment.
I think they massively missed a trick by not picking Hales for the NZ series, when he was in outstanding form for Notts at the start of the season.
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Lost the toss. Worried that means we've lost the game. I like D/L in the longer format but it's too heavily biased in favour of the team batting second in Twenty20.
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Won it easily. Woakes was superb.
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Won it easily. Woakes was superb.
Said largely the same on the other thread, brilliant batting from Woakes and Evans to set the target and then a lovely spell of bowling from Woakes (including a superb final over) to finish it off. Man of the match by a long way for me and I still think he'll be important for England in a couple of years, in all formats.
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Lost the toss. Worried that means we've lost the game. I like D/L in the longer format but it's too heavily biased in favour of the team batting second in Twenty20.
What the fuck do I know?
It didn't rain.
We won easily.
I posted in the general cricket thread instead of the Bears n' Pears Thread.
A hat-trick of fuckuppery but don't care.
YOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU BEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRSSS!!!!!!!!!
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Jimmy isn't fit, so it'll be the same team for the Oval. I think that's good, we shouldn't be experimenting in the Ashes we should be looking to hammer them.
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What a bunch of whinging pussies.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/the-ashes-2015-pitch-at-the-oval-for-fifth-test-draws-criticisms-from-frustrated-australians/story-fnia3gmj-1227490253295
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What a bunch of whinging pussies.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/the-ashes-2015-pitch-at-the-oval-for-fifth-test-draws-criticisms-from-frustrated-australians/story-fnia3gmj-1227490253295
Hi Oz,
I was in Noosa last month for a couple of weeks. Is that close to you?
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What a bunch of whinging pussies.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/the-ashes-2015-pitch-at-the-oval-for-fifth-test-draws-criticisms-from-frustrated-australians/story-fnia3gmj-1227490253295
Hi Oz,
I was in Noosa last month for a couple of weeks. Is that close to you?
Yep, that's about half an hour away. We live in Caloundra just down the Coast.
What did you think of Noosa?
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What a bunch of whinging pussies.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/the-ashes-2015-pitch-at-the-oval-for-fifth-test-draws-criticisms-from-frustrated-australians/story-fnia3gmj-1227490253295
Whinging underarm bowling pussies.
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What a bunch of whinging pussies.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/the-ashes-2015-pitch-at-the-oval-for-fifth-test-draws-criticisms-from-frustrated-australians/story-fnia3gmj-1227490253295
Hi Oz,
I was in Noosa last month for a couple of weeks. Is that close to you?
Yep, that's about half an hour away. We live in Caloundra just down the Coast.
What did you think of Noosa?
The beach was nice, the Main Street was not my kind of thing really but we stayed a mile or so out at Castaways Beach in a house right on the sea. Had the whole beach to ourselves most of the time as the locals thought it was too cold😀
I really like the whole region, we drove upto 1770 and did the reef thing which was great. I've four kids all under 13 and to give you an idea of what they're like they thought Aussie World was the highlight of the holiday so I don't think we're quite ready for the Gold Coast yet!
I arrived in Perth just as we won in Cardiff. When I'm on holiday I wear a beat up old England baseball cap to keep the sun off. Not one person mentioned cricket up until the moment we got dicked at Lords. Then I got loads of comments, handshakes of commiseration etc until I finally reacted to a bloke in a garage who I advised to 'wait until you get to my town and you've got 10000 pissed up Brummies putting your bowlers off'. I actually emailed a shop on the Davy Lowe Way when we clinched the series.
It's a great part of the world and we'll be returning at Easter hopefully, depending on how the Villa are doing.
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Typical Australia really, I like the suggestion that they don't do it, it just so happens that fair pitches are perfectly suited to their front foot players who like to drive the ball. It also just so happens that they get bouncy pitches when Mitchell Johnson is in form and flatter pitches when he's struggling.
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Glad you enjoyed your stay Andrew08. We could do with some more H&V's here. Anything below 22c is considered cold.
Welcome to my world. They are quiet as mice when they lose and never shut up when they win. The also whine like a Lancaster Bombers when things don't go their way but reckon we are all whingers. They make hypocrycy an art form.
Great place to live though, good lifestyle and by and large the Aussies are a very good lot.
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Typical Australia really, I like the suggestion that they don't do it, it just so happens that fair pitches are perfectly suited to their front foot players who like to drive the ball. It also just so happens that they get bouncy pitches when Mitchell Johnson is in form and flatter pitches when he's struggling.
Yeah it's hilarious. I don't think we've every turned up in Australia with pitches suited to English conditions, likewise I doubt India have ever turned up in Australia and played on massive turning pitches. It's the nature of the beast, you have to adapt to conditions. We did it appallingly in Australia and they've done it terribly here. Get over it whingeing Aussies.
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Lots like a definitie win the toss and bowl day.
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Potentially big toss for us to win there. Now bowl well England and knock them over again.
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Not much in pitch so far
Convicts team looks stronger with Siddle and Mitch Marsh in
Broad bowling too much down legside
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Both sides starting with the same mantra. Be patient.
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Proper Test cricket at the moment. From the start it actually looks like batting first is probably best.
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Agreed Paul looks like a good pitch
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Typical Australia really, I like the suggestion that they don't do it, it just so happens that fair pitches are perfectly suited to their front foot players who like to drive the ball. It also just so happens that they get bouncy pitches when Mitchell Johnson is in form and flatter pitches when he's struggling.
Yeah it's hilarious. I don't think we've every turned up in Australia with pitches suited to English conditions, likewise I doubt India have ever turned up in Australia and played on massive turning pitches. It's the nature of the beast, you have to adapt to conditions. We did it appallingly in Australia and they've done it terribly here. Get over it whingeing Aussies.
I'm not sure you can take the opinion of our Murdoch rag as indicative of general public sentiment (I know Rogers is quoted in there, which is odd given that he's been just about the only batsman who's been relatively clued-in as to how to manage the conditions.) Every person I've talked cricket with has focused their annoyance upon the awful way they've gone about trying to play on English pitches.
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I don't even think the Trent Bridge pitch was that green. England did score 390 on it after all.
I don't think there has been a proper green top in England for decades
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This is the 23rd toss that we have won in an Ashes test at the Oval and only the 2nd time that we have
chosen to bowl first!!!
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I can understand why they'd bowl first at the toss. Muggy conditions, fragile batting line up from the Aussies, bowlers up for it, bit of grass on the pitch. Totally understand the decision.
England just need to be consistant with their line and length and they'll get something. Aussies need to be watchful and build on it later in the day.
Old fashioned Test Match Cricket.
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We need to pitch it up more, they're able to leave far too much.
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We're looking a bit too friendly in this Test so far. We need to get our aggression and will to win back. It's definitely a batting pitch, the early conditions were a bit of a red herring.
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This is looking worryingly like Lords at the moment. We need a couple of quick wickets to get into them.
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This might actually be a five day test match at last. They've batted well and we haven't bowled badly but they've just not made the mistake of going after it and nicking off.
I think we've been conditioned out of this type of Cricket.
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Bit of overconfidence from Cook. You never bowl first at the Oval if you have a choice. This will be another 500+ score from Australia, and then we know how England do under a bit of scoreboard pressure.
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For the long term development of the team it might be useful for us to try and bowl on a flat deck. We need to work out how to get wickets when conditions don't suit us. We need a big afternoon session now.
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Obviously just watching on tv but there doesn't feel like the same intensity in this match. Probably a natural thing in dead rubbers.
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yeah, the game feels quite flat. Only half watching it but Wood has looked the best bowler from what I've seen because he's been fuller, I'd like to see Broad and Finn have a go at that sort of length.
And there's Wood getting a wicket, was a shorter one but it worked because he's not been bowling a back foot length so he stood him up.
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A wicket at last
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I understand the thing about the dead rubber, but I'd be a bit annoyed if our intensity dropped because of it. 4-1 seems massively different to 3-2 and it would be nice to get some pay back. We really need to bowl fuller on the whole.
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yeah, the game feels quite flat.
I'd been pondering heading over early tomorrow and trying to get a ticket. Listening on the radio, the game does seem to be a bit anti-climactic, so I don't think I'll bother
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yeah, the game feels quite flat.
I'd been pondering heading over early tomorrow and trying to get a ticket. Listening on the radio, the game does seem to be a bit anti-climactic, so I don't think I'll bother
Never know, it might be worth it still, I think the game just needs something to spark it, I hoped the wicket would do it but the crowd never really got going after that. Getting Smith of Warner is probably the important one.
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This is getting pretty ominous. I don't blame Cook for bowling first, it looked green and the overhead conditions looked really helpful, but it's looking like a bat first wicket all the way here.
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Good lad Moeen. Now come on England we're into the soft underbelly.
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Good from Moeen, big wicket that, get Smith soon and they're looking at 250-300 which would be well below par on here.
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I think we need Smith and Clarke quickly.
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Clarke and Smith are both looking pretty good here.
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that is the tiniest of edges but it's good for us.
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It really irks me when Smith gets runs, even more than Warner. He just looks so utterly shit. Come on England, put him back in his place.
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Bad day for us that. Need to fight back tomorrow.
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Let's hope we get a bit more luck today and can knock them over for less than 400. One slight concern yesterday was that Finn was well down on pace, he needs to up that today.
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"It's hot. Comfortably the warmest day of the series so far by my reckoning, and yet the temperature around the ground feels lukewarm. Sadly, the events of yesterday, when Test cricket reverted to type and the Australians remembered how to leave the ball, seems to have burst the bubble of England's supporters and left them feeling rather flat. Can England get back in the game? As the saying goes, it's a big first session."
See this statement on the BBC annoys me, because it implies there's something wrong with proper Test cricket and knowing when to leave the ball. That is one of the great skills in the game and shouldn't be criticised.
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I actually quite enjoyed the first session of play yesterday. Ok it didn't have the fireworks of Trent Bridge but the cat and mouse game between openers and bowlers was great to watch if you understand what's really going on.
Helps when you know the series s in the bag though to be fair.
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I think we're facing a massive score here, we don't look like taking any wickets.
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Ha jinxed it, fortunately. But we really need a clatter of wickets here to get us anywhere near back in this game.
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Smith caught off a no ball. We really need to cut these no balls out, we've lost a few important wickets because of it this summer.
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Shocking no ball as well.
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It's things like that which are holding Finn back from being a genuine world class bowler, you just can't be making those mistakes at this level, if they're a fraction over I have some sympathy but 3-4 inches like that is pathetic.
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I reckon I prompted Finn to get the wicket, I'm claiming it at least.
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Excellent delivery that and could come back. We need to run through them now.
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One small thing in the bowlers favour on these no balls is the umpires are just never calling them until there's a wicket. So the bowler might not even realise he's overstepping.
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Smith caught off a no ball. We really need to cut these no balls out, we've lost a few important wickets because of it this summer.
He lives a charmed life does Smith. Another century where you wonder how the hell he managed to get there.
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Great last over from TBTBF
Good catch from Buttler as well
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Moeen you little beauty, coming up with an important couple of wickets there. We really need to knock them over quickly after lunch and we might be back in the game. 450 or less.
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That first wicket from Moeen was a bloody awful delivery and great wicketkeeping and the second was a brilliant ball.
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Great last over from TBTBF
Good catch from Buttler as well
after about 40minutes I still haven't worked out what tbtbf means.
The 2nd wicket for Moeen in that over was an absolute pearler to a tail ender
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The Beard To Be Feared
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We really need to get them out for less than 450.
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Why's Moeen still bowling? Thought it'd be a typical case of getting him in to winkle out a couple of wickets, and then replace him just as soon for a quick to bowl at the rest of the tail.
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We've lost any initiative we had here. But it'll be an interesting challenge when we bat, let's see if we can cope with scoreboard pressure.
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Though shalt not put teams in at the Oval.
This shower of a team will put on 500+.
My bet is, we'll struggle to avoid the follow on. Which would be a real shame to end the series on a downer.
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This is a good Test now. Lyth has to step up and Cook needs a big score, but we need to learn how to play against scoreboard pressure if we're ever to develop.
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Crucial innings for Lyth here
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Cook gone :(
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That's a hell of a delivery from Lyon and a bit of a worry.
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There goes our best chance of getting close to the Aussie score. Hopefully root can step up and make proper big runs this time.
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I see Hales is in the middle of making another massive century for Notts.
He really should have been picked ahead of Lyth at the start of the summer
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Hopefully root can step up and make proper big runs this time.
Yeah, it's about time Root scored some runs. This team has been carrying him for far too long.
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I see Hales is in the middle of making another massive century for Notts.
He really should have been picked ahead of Lyth at the start of the summer
I agree, they have him pegged as a T20 specialist but like Buttler I think there's much more to his game and he deserves a chance, he's as good as Warner who is a capable opener and one of the 3 aussie batsmen who come out of this series with any credit.
Lyth goes to a really poor shot, just scooping it to the catcher.
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Hopefully root can step up and make proper big runs this time.
Yeah, it's about time Root scored some runs. This team has been carrying him for far too long.
Big runs I said, by which I mean well over 150. Rahul Dravid type scores. Apart from Cook, he's the only one I trust anywhere near enough to stay in and score.
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Surely then it's the others who need to 'step up'.
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Surely then it's the others who need to 'step up'.
In theory yes, in practice they don't have it in them.
Speaking of which, Mr Backbone has just gone.
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All of this has happened before.
All of this will happen again.
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This is utterly dismal. It's a bit of a worry that as soon as any pressure comes on we fold. There are serious questions about our top order.
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This is dismal. Buttler has had a despicable series with the bat. It's a major concern that we have been skittled like this twice on flat wickets.
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What's ridiculous is that Australia have shown that you need to apply yourself on this pitch, we just don't appear to have paid attention.
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It's quite funny really. We are going to be presented with the ashes at the end of this match having been comprehensively humiliated. A very odd series where each match has seen one of the teams utterly dominant.
I thought this might happen. You could tell on the 1st day that with the ashes already won the intensity and concentration had drained from our side. It doesn't excuse yet another woeful batting display on a flat pitch though.
It will be interesting to see the squad that goes up against Pakistan. Obviously Lyth can't be in it, but apart from that it's all up in the air really.
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I think the microscope should really be on Buttler now. This has been woeful.
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As a veteran of watching England, I actually congratulated an Aussie friend of mine on winning the dead rubber after we failed to take a wicket in the first hour yesterday. Miserablist, yes, and only partially in the hope of jinxing a wicket or two.
They can't play the moving ball on seaming wickets. We can't play straight balls on flat wickets when there's runs on the board for the other team.
The only surprise is that people act surprised when this happens.
Same as it ever was.
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Why are England playing one day shots in a Test Match with over 3 days to go? Total careless batting!
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We need to learn how to dig in, because you just can't bat like this.
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It's confirmed anyway, Lyth is terrible, no where near up to scratch at the moment as a test opener.
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Why are England playing one day shots in a Test Match with over 3 days to go? Total careless batting!
Playing as if they can't be arsed really. Lack of intensity in the field, lack of application at the crease. We were way behind in the game, won the series and no one looks up for another fight.
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We got the bowling wrong yesterday, was too short and too many no balls. Once they got to 350-400 they had the momentum and runs on the board to really attack us, a beauty to get Cook just before the break just added to that and then a mix of good bowling and some awful shot selection has really turned the screw.
Really frustrating couple of days where it's hard not to think that they've maybe taken their eyes off the game a little.
Lyth I think has shown he's not cut out for this level just yet, he needs to go away and work on his concentration outside off stump. Buttler I'd stick with for the winter but he really needs to score some runs, if he fails again then at least we have Bairstow in the squad already to go in behind the stumps. I do like Buttler as a keeper though and I'm not sure about Bairstow.
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I think there's no way Buttler gets in just as a keeper at the moment. Also Moeen should be coming in above him.
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Granted Cook made a very bad decision to put them in, but these first two days are a perfect example of how to turn a celebration into a disaster. Winning the toss and putting them in worked at Trent Bridsge but on most occasions it does not. The old adage still holds good on most occasions, "win the toss and thinking of putting the opposition in to bat, think again and bat".
Lyth is just not good enough at this level. Just because he is from Yorkshire is not a reason to pick him.
Then, there is the London factor. Straightforward answer do not play Test Matches in London. At least until the two venues stop preparing wickets that suit the Touring sides. Thank god the other 3 grounds prepared wickets that suited England, and showed some patriotism. In the meantime matches in London to be classed as "friendlies" and not count towards deciding the series.
>:(
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I think there's no way Buttler gets in just as a keeper at the moment. Also Moeen should be coming in above him.
I don't know what's happend, I thought he batted really well in the India series last year. Right mixture of conservative and attacking.
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And another thing: Mitchell Marsh? Mitchell fucking Marsh? Come off it England.
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I think there's no way Buttler gets in just as a keeper at the moment. Also Moeen should be coming in above him.
I don't know what's happend, I thought he batted really well in the India series last year. Right mixture of conservative and attacking.
He got put under too much pressure by being in too early too many times and started trying to play too conservative, it doesn't suit him and now he's not only not sticking around but he's also not scoring quick runs and providing a bit of impetus. We really need someone to sit him down and convince him to just play his natural game, when he was doing that he was averaging nearly 60 and looking every bit the lower-middle-order counter-attacker we needed him to be.
His job, most of the time, should be to come in and turn a good score into a great one and the rest of the time to add a bit of respectability to a bad score. 30-40 runs from 25 deliveries from him today doesn't stop us being well behind and doesn't win us the series but it does put them on the back foot and make the follow on decision far less cut and dry. Similarly I hope Moeen goes out tomorrow with that attitude and tries to push us on to 150-160 (or more), that's still leaves them with a huge lead but it puts a small dent in their confidence and might be enough to convince Clarke to come out and get another 150-200. You have to remember that this is a guy who has never forced the follow on so any hint that the follow on might not be the best idea will nudge him away from it and that's our only chance of stopping the series ending 3-2.
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Or we follow on and call on Sir Ian Terence to lend us a hand, get a small lead and skittle 'em.
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Jonathan Agnew
✔
@Aggerscricket
When the going has got tough, the batsmen from both sides have run for the hills. They say it is the modern way. It is the wrong way.
Nasser Hussain produced some amazing graphs demonstrating this phenomenon. No draws or close results. Strange series.
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Jonathan Agnew
✔
@Aggerscricket
When the going has got tough, the batsmen from both sides have run for the hills. They say it is the modern way. It is the wrong way.
Nasser Hussain produced some amazing graphs demonstrating this phenomenon. No draws or close results. Strange series.
Is it that or is it that both sides have been ruthless when they've had a sniff of winning? I don't know but I think slagging off the batsmen and ignoring the bowlers involvement is a dangerous idea, especially after most of the cricket world spent a big chunk of the winter moaning about batsmen dominating the game. For example I think Australia bowled superbly today and only really Lyth, Buttler and Stokes gave their wickets away.
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How about until London starts producing Test cricketers for the England team it loses any Test matches?
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The reason it keeps happening is that the sides are basically mirror images of themselves.
The fact is that neither side is actually that good so when one team gets the ascendancy the other just rolls over. England's batting line up in this series contains some players that are out of form and others that quite frankly arn't good enough.
Nothing wrong with the pitches, everything wrong with the application on both sides.
I expect players to be discarded from both sides before their next Test Matches.
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The reason it keeps happening is that the sides are basically mirror images of themselves.
The fact is that neither side is actually that good so when one team gets the ascendancy the other just rolls over. England's batting line up in this series contains some players that are out of form and others that quite frankly arn't good enough.
Nothing wrong with the pitches, everything wrong with the application on both sides.
I expect players to be discarded from both sides before their next Test Matches.
Yes, but it is precisely "the application on both sides", as you correctly point out, which needs explanation.
What the crickerati seem to be saying, is that T20 cricket is leading to incorrect shot selection and and the cult of the big hitter. I have a read a few articles stating this case, and will post the links later.
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Yeah i ersonally think its a mixture of T20 and a poor mindset where macho 'take it to the bowlers' style batting is the modern way but the players arn't good enough to back it up. Everyone wants to play shots and counter attack like Adam Gilchrist but they just can't.
They don't have the patience or technique to play their way out of trouble so they instantly go into 'wrestle the initiative' mode and just give their wicket away.
Both sides have been as bad and as good as each other in places.
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That seems close to something like the truth, OzVilla.
Here is one of the articles having a pop, from the ToryGraph:
Ashes 2015: Lack of ebb and flow in the series has been a major disappointment (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/theashes/11817127/Ashes-2015-Lack-of-ebb-and-flow-in-the-series-has-been-a-major-disappointment.html)
Neither England nor Australia has been able to show real resilience when up against it, writes Simon Briggs (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/theashes/11817127/Ashes-2015-Lack-of-ebb-and-flow-in-the-series-has-been-a-major-disappointment.html)
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We are going to lose this match. Of that there is no doubt.
Since the drubbing in Australia, and the new players bought into the team, England have become incredibly inconsistent. In all fairness, I expected to lose both test series this summer, against an excellent NZ side and Australia. I'd have snapped anyones hand off to draw the first and then win back the ashes. It's been a bit of a mental summer of international cricket full stop, what with the ODI team finally breaking it's shackles.
I actually think our best test performance of the summer was at Lords against NZ. We got ourselves into a losing position on a couple of occasions, but played great cricket to come back and win.
Where we go after this series is anyones guess. I'd suggest Lyth has finally used up his 9 lives, and Hales should be belatedly given his chance, but after that it's difficult to predict the direction the selectors will go in.
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We are incredibly inconsistent, but it comes down to two reasons. Firstly on the whole we have several players finding their way at Test level. But secondly, and it's kind of linked to the first reason, there's a cultural lack of application when the need is to dig in.
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We are incredibly inconsistent, but it comes down to two reasons. Firstly on the whole we have several players finding their way at Test level. But secondly, and it's kind of linked to the first reason, there's a cultural lack of application when the need is to dig in.
Yes, but when Australia suffer the same cultural lack of application, it is reasonable to look for universal causes, one of which is all to clear and constitutes the elephant in the room.
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Atleast a few questions are being answered.
Moen Ali is proving a vital member of the side and has nailed his spot down when leading into to series it was somewhat uncertain. Mark Wood and Steve Finn have both proved themselves to be excellent support bowlers for Anderson and Broad and Ben Stokes has shown he can be a very useful bowling asset.
Adam Lyth has not shown anywhere near enough to keep his place, jury still out on Bairstow and Buttler.
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It's interesting with Moeen. As is pretty clear I'm a big fan of his, but his bowling has really gone backwards to the point he can't be the first choice spinner at the moment. However at the same time he's batted excellently and improved a lot to the point he should definitely be in the side as a batsman.
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I feel a bit sorry for Adam Lyth in some ways but I honestly can't think of too many worse performances in a 5 Test series that you've won.
It'd be extremely brave to ever pick him again.
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It would be extremely stupid as well, I've seen nothing from Lyth that makes me think he can be a reliable test class batsman, he could well be the easiest opener we've had to get out for 20+ years?
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I feel a bit sorry for Adam Lyth in some ways but I honestly can't think of too many worse performances in a 5 Test series that you've won.
It'd be extremely brave to ever pick him again.
The worst thing is they haven't had to do anything special to get rid of him, he's getting out to 4th/5th stump from right arm over the stumps deliveries, a left handed opener needs to be able to play those much better. There's not been many truly terrible shots (although first innings in this match was an awful shot) they're just edges on deliveries that he needs to be able to handle.
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It would be extremely stupid as well, I've seen nothing from Lyth that makes me think he can be a reliable test class batsman, he could well be the easiest opener we've had to get out for 20+ years?
It's beginning to look like no one wants to open with Chef.
Who's next in line?
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I like Ali but I find it hard to believe there isn't a better spin bowler in the country than him.
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Atleast a few questions are being answered.
Moen Ali is proving a vital member of the side and has nailed his spot down when leading into to series it was somewhat uncertain. Mark Wood and Steve Finn have both proved themselves to be excellent support bowlers for Anderson and Broad and Ben Stokes has shown he can be a very useful bowling asset.
Adam Lyth has not shown anywhere near enough to keep his place, jury still out on Bairstow and Buttler.
I don't like Bairstow's stance, i'd prefer it if he was more orthodox. It worked for Gooch, but Gooch was special. Also, subjectively speaking, he always looks terrified when he's out there.
I'm not sure about Lyth, I'd be tempted to keep him over the Winter tours because there's no one else, and in the hope that his flaws can be coached out of him. His county stats suggest there's something to work with there.
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Sigh. Bell gone, finally, after trying his best to get out for the last 20mins or so.
Our only two decent bats at the crease, it's all down to these.
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I like Ali but I find it hard to believe there isn't a better spin bowler in the country than him.
I like him, good batsman and generates a lot of spin on the ball. What he has going against him is the basic number of deliveries he's bowled. It's very rare to see a world class spinner whose under about 26-27 and that's with them being a front line bowler at first class level for a number of years previously. Moeen doesn't have those years behind him but importantly he knows it and has recognised the flaws in his bowling, he mentions it here (along with recognising that he needs to have variation, hence the doosra) - http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/884255.html - it's things like this that make me think he'll make it as an international spinner, his attitude is spot on.
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Why are some players wearing black armbands by the way?
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Lyth, Bell, Spin bowling, Buttler, Bairstow.
Lots of questions to be answered before the winter tour. Only Cook, Root, Stokes, Ali as a batsman, Broad and Anderson look nailed on. The rest of the positions could be up in the air.
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Bairstow shouldn't be walking there. This is a poor show.
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I wish the other top order batsmen could show Cook's application. It's alright playing aggressive, but sometimes the situation dictates a different approach.
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Bairstow shouldn't be walking there. This is a poor show.
I'm not watching but I see he was out caught, if he hit it and it was caught why on earth shouldn't he walk?
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Bairstow shouldn't be walking there. This is a poor show.
I'm not watching but I see he was out caught, if he hit it and it was caught why on earth shouldn't he walk?
Because it hit Voges grill, which means it's not out and he's walked after being given out incorrectly in that fashion before.
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We're clearly going to lose, but Buttler needs runs tomorrow.
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My thinking for the team to play Pakistan in the 1st test
Hales
Cook
Bell - Good player of spin, but last chance saloon
Root
Bairstow - Give him a chance, no one banging the door down in middle orders around the country
Ali
Stokes
Buttler - Need to invest in him. He is outrageously talented
Rashid - If not going to play in the subcontinent, he will never play
Broad
Wood - Skiddy action better suited than Finn to slower pitches
Anderson
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Bairstow shouldn't be walking there. This is a poor show.
I'm not watching but I see he was out caught, if he hit it and it was caught why on earth shouldn't he walk?
Because it hit Voges grill, which means it's not out and he's walked after being given out incorrectly in that fashion before.
It's one thing to criticise him for a poor shot but walking when he believes he is out doesn't warrant any criticism. I hate the way cricket has changed where a batsman can stand his ground and more or less say prove it even though they know they're out. It's cheating basically.
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Why are some players wearing black armbands by the way?
I'm assuming that it's for Arthur Morris.
Either that or in remembrance of Adam Lyth's Test career
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Bairstow shouldn't be walking there. This is a poor show.
I'm not watching but I see he was out caught, if he hit it and it was caught why on earth shouldn't he walk?
Because it hit Voges grill, which means it's not out and he's walked after being given out incorrectly in that fashion before.
It's one thing to criticise him for a poor shot but walking when he believes he is out doesn't warrant any criticism. I hate the way cricket has changed where a batsman can stand his ground and more or less say prove it even though they know they're out. It's cheating basically.
I think Paul is fair enough in his point. Bairstow was given out like this before. Fair enough thinking he was out on that occasion, but surely numerous people at that time (not to mention the media) would have then clued him in on the rule. To just walk off when the exact same thing happens again is bloody stupid!! In no way does this excuse the umpire for being unaware of the rules however.
Not walking is cheating, I agree.
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Bairstow shouldn't be walking there. This is a poor show.
I'm not watching but I see he was out caught, if he hit it and it was caught why on earth shouldn't he walk?
Because it hit Voges grill, which means it's not out and he's walked after being given out incorrectly in that fashion before.
It's one thing to criticise him for a poor shot but walking when he believes he is out doesn't warrant any criticism. I hate the way cricket has changed where a batsman can stand his ground and more or less say prove it even though they know they're out. It's cheating basically.
I think Paul is fair enough in his point. Bairstow was given out like this before. Fair enough thinking he was out on that occasion, but surely numerous people at that time (not to mention the media) would have then clued him in on the rule. To just walk off when the exact same thing happens again is bloody stupid!! In no way does this excuse the umpire for being unaware of the rules however.
Not walking is cheating, I agree.
We should bear in mind that posters are monitoring the game on different media. On the Sky coverage, Mikey Holding gave it the full gun and was very convincing.
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Right, no London matches in the next Ashes please.
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Right, no London matches in the next Ashes please.
Or at least if there is a match at the Oval the England captain needs to be reminded that you always bat first there.
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They should play a one off 'Test', North (from Midlands up) v South (the rest) and the winners get the second of the two London Tests. I know who my money would be on. And then do the same against Glamorgan!
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They should play a one off 'Test', North (from Midlands up) v South (the rest) and the winners get the second of the two London Tests. I know who my money would be on. And then do the same against Glamorgan!
I hadn't really thought about it before but this ashes has taken th episs a bit in that regard, the 'northern' test being trent bridge.
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No one will ever convince me that London should have 2 tests all the time
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The next time the ashes are played BT sport have the rights.
This will piss a lot people off.
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England batsman Joe Root has been rested for the limited-overs series against Australia.
The 24-year-old, England's leading run-scorer during their 3-2 Ashes win, will miss the Twenty20 and five one-day internationals starting on 31 August.
Uncapped Essex left-arm pace bowler Reece Topley, 21, has been named in a 13-man T20 squad.
All-rounder Moeen Ali, rested for the ODIs against New Zealand this summer, has been recalled for both formats.
The one-day squad features five players - Moeen, Jos Buttler, Steven Finn, Ben Stokes and Mark Wood - who helped England win the Ashes.
Topley and batsman James Vince, who were in the squad for the last T20 international against New Zealand but did not play in the 56-run win at Old Trafford, retain their places.
Fit-again seamer Chris Woakes returns after injury.
Topley has taken 16 wickets at an average of 22.93 with an economy rate of 9.02 in 11 T20 Blast games for Essex this season, while Hampshire's Vince is the joint highest English run-scorer in the competition with 641.
There is no place in either squad for Jonny Bairstow. He made a match-winning unbeaten 83 as England clinched a 3-2 win over New Zealand in June, their first one-day series since being knocked out of the World Cup in the group stages.
England T20 squad: Eoin Morgan (Middlesex, capt), Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Sam Billings (Kent), Jos Buttler (Lancashire, wk), Steven Finn (Middlesex), Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Ben Stokes (Durham), Reece Topley (Essex), James Vince (Hampshire), David Willey (Northamptonshire), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire).
England ODI squad: Eoin Morgan (Middlesex, capt), Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Sam Billings (Kent), Jos Buttler (Lancashire, wk), Steven Finn (Middlesex), Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire), Liam Plunkett (Yorkshire), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Ben Stokes (Durham), James Taylor (Nottinghamshire), David Willey Northamptonshire), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).
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The Convictesses have a player called "Villani". Hope they find room for "Robberi" and "Burglari" in the next game.
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Good win earlier today and we are starting to look a decent limited overs side now. Ali and Morgan both batted very well and Willey and Stokes held it together well with the ball at the death.
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Stokes has the potential to be an absolute legend in all forms of the game, he's inconsistent at the moment but the talent is there.
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Stokes has the potential to be an absolute legend in all forms of the game, he's inconsistent at the moment but the talent is there.
I think the West Indies tour has had a big effect on him before (and during) that tour I thought he was inconsistent but was also very immature. Samuels showed him up badly and at the time I called for him to come back out of the team until he learned from it but to his credit (and I believe the coaching team as well) he's grown up massively during the summer and now looks ready for international cricket. I'm happy to admit I was wrong about him.
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Chris Woakes in the England side for todays ODI in Southampton:
Hales, Roy, Taylor, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Rashid, Woakes, Wood & Finn
Australia - Warner, Burns, Smith, Bailey, Watson, Wade, M.Marsh, Starc, Coulter-Nile & Cummins
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Forgot to say Australia won toss and are batting.
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Surprised to see Willey dropped, he's done well and offers a different angle. Nice to see Taylor and Woakes back though.
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Surprised to see Willey dropped, he's done well and offers a different angle. Nice to see Taylor and Woakes back though.
Agree about Willey, he seems to be improving every game he plays. Bit harsh on Billings as well, for although I rate Taylor, I would have kept Ali at three and Billings at seven.
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Surprised to see Willey dropped, he's done well and offers a different angle. Nice to see Taylor and Woakes back though.
Yes i was surprised re. Willey being left out, i think that maybe some of these bowlers will get rotated throughout this 5 game series with
Willey certainly getting some game time. I will be very surprised if Woakes plays in all 5 games, would love it if he did must admit. I also think
that James Taylor needs to score runs as he may be the sacrificial lamb if they move Moeen Ali back up towards the top of the order.
Good day for sport today on TV, One dayer, Cyprus v Wales and US Open tennis and sorry not there Bears but Bears on the radio.
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James Taylor is a good player and I think he deserves to be given a chance.
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Pet cricket peeve - When commentators, pundits etc refer to a flat deck as a 'beauty of a pitch' or an 'excellent pitch'. If it massively weighted in the batsman's favour then it's not a good pitch.
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They were making the point during the commentary of the Yorkshire match this morning how few players had managed 1,000 Championship runs this season, I think they said there were only two. They were suggesting that the pitched in the Championship are more suited to the bowlers this season.
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They were making the point during the commentary of the Yorkshire match this morning how few players had managed 1,000 Championship runs this season, I think they said there were only two. They were suggesting that the pitched in the Championship are more suited to the bowlers this season.
I may have dreamt it as I was dozing off on the sofa last night, but I thought it said on SSN news last night that someone had become the fourth this season to reach that milestone. I was surprised to see Scott Borthwick was one of them.
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Bairstow passed 1,000 yesterday after 13 innings and they mentioned another player but can't remember who. May well be more but it's still not many for this stage of the season.
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Bairstow 1071. Hildreth 1133. Borthwick 1026 and Luke Wright in current match also 1104, 226* in current match
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At least Adil Rashid justifying his selection today with all 3 wickets to fall so far164-3 31 overs
Rashid 3-47 from 7
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Make that a 4 fer - gets Bailey LBW
178-4
4-48 Rashid into his 8th...chuffed to bits for him.
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Dangerous Maxwell gone now 192-5 ct behind off Wood 15
36 overs
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WTF Watson our and NOt i repeat NOT LBW......had a cheeky fiver on him being run out as well
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An absolute shocker from Wade & Watson never a single on, they decide to take Stokes on who gets through away and Buttler whips em off and Watson out
193-6 37 overs
Diabolical
Rashid finished his spell 10 0 59 4
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An absolute shocker from Wade & Watson never a single on, they decide to take Stokes on who gets through away and Buttler whips em off and Watson out
193-6 37 overs
Diabolical
Rashid finished his spell 10 0 59 4
Throw......where on earth did i get 'through' from
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I thought we pulled that around pretty well after the start they got but it was disappointing not to get any wickets in the last 10 overs.
Rashid bowled well and Woakes's line was good at the death. Will be an interesting chase.
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Weird innings that, at one stage they were on for a massive total and then looked like they'd be lucky to bat out the fifty overs. They then somehow got to 305.
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In danger of throwing this away
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Great, just got up to watch the end of the cricket and the only 3 balls I've seen have taken wickets. Back to bed for an hour and start the day again methinks.
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Not going to win this now. Slightly mystified as to why Bairstow isn't in the squad.
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Buttler's form with the bat is a real concern.
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I'm not a fan of "resting" batsmen for ODI's. I can understand it with bowlers and their workloads, but Root really should be playing in this series
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I disagree where Root is concerned, he's been struggling with his back. He's not gone back to play for Yorkshire in order for him to get a good break and hopefully sort his back out.
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I disagree where Root is concerned, he's been struggling with his back. He's not gone back to play for Yorkshire in order for him to get a good break and hopefully sort his back out.
Agree, Root isn't really rested, he's recovering from a problem that was clearly bothering him during the tests.
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Root needed to be given some time off. I really rate Taylor and I think he'd actually be a good number 5 in Test cricket.
Yesterday was disappointing and we need to work on how we regain momentum when we suffer a set back.
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Back to our old problem of stagnating in the middle overs thereby pushing the run rate up and having to take too many risks at the end. Thought we'd got rid of that issue but it seems not.
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Back to our old problem of stagnating in the middle overs thereby pushing the run rate up and having to take too many risks at the end. Thought we'd got rid of that issue but it seems not.
Yep I guess there was always going to be a backslide, let's hope they're aware of it though.
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I do think Moeen is too far down the order as well. I appreciate he did really well counter attacking from 8 in the Ashes, but he's a much better batsmen than the position he's in and he's well capable of scoring hundreds.
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I hope Taylor does well today.
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Never seen a dismissal like Stokes before, on replay it looks a good decision.
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Terrible appeal and decision that. Buttler bombs again.
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Never seen a dismissal like Stokes before, on replay it looks a good decision.
I agree. Definitely out for me.
Stokes already had his body/head safely out of the way. There was no need for him to put his hand anywhere near the ball.
You can see him looking at the ball and then putting his hand across his body to block the ball.
The TV commentators were suggesting that it all happened too quickly to be deliberate. However, as we've seen from Stokes fielding this season, he is well capable of reacting that quickly.
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My thoughts exactly Redsox.
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I'm not sure you can categorically call that willfully obstructing.
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Regardless of that decision the batting has gone backwards in these two games. We've gone back to confused thinking in the middle order. Buttler really is in terrible form as well.
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The form Buttler is in makes it even more baffling that Bairstow isn't in the squad, he deserves his place on his batting alone. Can't be many players dropped from a side having played a match winning innings in their only other ODI appearance of the summer.
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Enjoying this from Morgan and Plunkett.
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Entertaining stand from Morgan and Plunkett, 55 off 21 balls
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We gave them the kids of death then!
Enjoying watching the tight bowling from the Aussies. That should do it.
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I think Buttler should be left out of the last 3 games. He's not benefitting from getting worse and worse. He's a real talent, but I think he needs a break. Good to see Morgan get some runs. Taylor, Hales and Roy all need to learn how to build on a start.
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Was Stokes taking evasive action? Did his left hand come out too far as he blocked the ball from hitting the stumps? The third umpire looked at replays and gave him out, which from his point of view and in my eyes, was the right call. That wicket certainly pushed us back and we didn't find our way back till Morgan's late blitz.
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I've never heard booing like that from a Lords crowd.
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I think it's a reflex action, bear in mind that it's going at full speed.
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This will lead to bowlers beaming it at batsmen now.
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I think that the law certainly needs to be clarified. How do you define "intent" and when does intent become evasive action? I think Stokes knew exactly what he was doing. Maybe a more experienced captain would have withdrawn the appeal; Smith is a new captain and it does remind me of Collingwood against the Kiwis in 2008 when a batsman was run out after colliding with the bowler in his follow through (Sidebottom?). Collingwood was, I think, in his first series as one day captain and the Umpire asked him if he wanted to withdraw the appeal. He didn't and has since admitted that he wished he had.
Cricket is as much about the spirit of the game as winning and that is something that I love about the sport. Maybe Smith would reassess his position if he had a few more series under his belt.
Thankfully it didn't happen in an Ashes test. Imagine the furore!
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My first view of it was on slo-mo and I think it was the right call, he's clearly looking at the ball and attempts to push it away.
Was it as a reaction to a fear that the ball may be hitting him, I don't believe it was but put me in front of Mitchell Starc launching the ball at me in that way and I may well have had the same reaction.
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If it had been the other way round, Stokes chucking the ball and Smith handling it there would have been very loud tutting from the members pavilion.
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Had it been the other way around you'd not have heard the booing at Lord's over the mass whining from 12,000 miles way about 'cheating England' and how the Aussies would never do such a thing. Players names refusing to be mentioned in newspapers and how it's all Un- Australian.
This morning a reference to it but barely a murmer.
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Wasn't the on field decision not out but it was referred then to the 3rd umpire?
I also remember Harmison doing something to Inzamam in a test match....I think the appeal then should have been withdrawn (it wasn't) as it should have been yesterday.
The thing that got me was Smith saying it was blatantly out - it was anything but blatant. He also said it was in the rules, which always make me chuckle, as they are called laws.
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Wasn't the on field decision not out but it was referred then to the 3rd umpire?
I also remember Harmison doing something to Inzamam in a test match....I think the appeal then should have been withdrawn (it wasn't) as it should have been yesterday.
The thing that got me was Smith saying it was blatantly out - it was anything but blatant. He also said it was in the rules, which always make me chuckle, as they are called laws.
It's been suggested that most players don't know the finer points of the laws. I tend to agree.
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I really don't think the umpire should be able to use the slow mo replay in a situation such as Stokes dismissal. It gives a completely false impression of the event.
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It was absolutely the correct decision. There was active obstruction and therefore on appeal and umpire can decide. Normally if the umpire gives out you would, in cricket, expect the opposition captain to withdraw the appeal but yesterday and in the past both teams have been guilty of not doing that so no one has moral high ground on this.
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It was absolutely the correct decision. There was active obstruction and therefore on appeal and umpire can decide. Normally if the umpire gives out you would, in cricket, expect the opposition captain to withdraw the appeal but yesterday and in the past both teams have been guilty of not doing that so no one has moral high ground on this.
I disagree - I don't think it was wilful at all.
Of course the only one who really knows is Stokes.
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It was absolutely the correct decision. There was active obstruction and therefore on appeal and umpire can decide. Normally if the umpire gives out you would, in cricket, expect the opposition captain to withdraw the appeal but yesterday and in the past both teams have been guilty of not doing that so no one has moral high ground on this.
Given the ridiculous appealing that goes on nowadays in first class cricket, nobody has any right to the moral high ground. I have lost count of the times when somebody at Edgbaston has uttered in dismay something like "Don't embarass us" to an appeal from our team, and we are far from the worst offenders.
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Having now watched this a few times I'm still not sure, I can see the reasons to give it but I can see just as many not to. On balance I'd expect the 3rd umpire to go with the on-field umpire for this so I'll edge slightly towards disappointed with the decision.
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England will rest wicketkeeper Jos Buttler for the last three games of their five-match one-day international series against Australia.
They have called up fellow keeper Jonny Bairstow as his replacement.
Lancashire's Buttler struggled with the bat as Australia won the first two ODIs, making four and nought.
"It has become clear in the last couple of days that Jos will benefit from a break from cricket ahead of the winter tours," said coach Trevor Bayliss.
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Absolutely the right decision to rest Buttler.
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It was absolutely the correct decision. There was active obstruction and therefore on appeal and umpire can decide. Normally if the umpire gives out you would, in cricket, expect the opposition captain to withdraw the appeal but yesterday and in the past both teams have been guilty of not doing that so no one has moral high ground on this.
Given the ridiculous appealing that goes on nowadays in first class cricket, nobody has any right to the moral high ground. I have lost count of the times when somebody at Edgbaston has uttered in dismay something like "Don't embarass us" to an appeal from our team, and we are far from the worst offenders.
I've posted this before.....
I think that all appealing should be done away with. You're either out or you're not, I don't understand why (other than because its tradition) that a team has to appeal.
If the umpire thinks that a player is out, they should just give them out immediately.
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To be honest I think appealling is a major part of the spectacle of the game and has to stay in. It allows the crowd to get involved as well.
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To be honest I think appealling is a major part of the spectacle of the game and has to stay in. It allows the crowd to get involved as well.
I agree, and I also don't have a problem with Smith no withdrawing the appeal (I do have a problem with the 'blatently out' comment afterwards though, show some fucking humility). My issue with this is that I just don't think, in real time, you can definitively say that he was intent on blocking the ball from hitting the stumps rather than intent on making sure the ball didn't hit him anywhere painful.
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To be honest I think appealling is a major part of the spectacle of the game and has to stay in. It allows the crowd to get involved as well.
I agree, and I also don't have a problem with Smith no withdrawing the appeal (I do have a problem with the 'blatently out' comment afterwards though, show some fucking humility). My issue with this is that I just don't think, in real time, you can definitively say that he was intent on blocking the ball from hitting the stumps rather than intent on making sure the ball didn't hit him anywhere painful.
Agree. The real time and slow mo replays gave a completely different picture of the incident.
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It was absolutely the correct decision. There was active obstruction and therefore on appeal and umpire can decide. Normally if the umpire gives out you would, in cricket, expect the opposition captain to withdraw the appeal but yesterday and in the past both teams have been guilty of not doing that so no one has moral high ground on this.
Given the ridiculous appealing that goes on nowadays in first class cricket, nobody has any right to the moral high ground. I have lost count of the times when somebody at Edgbaston has uttered in dismay something like "Don't embarass us" to an appeal from our team, and we are far from the worst offenders.
I've posted this before.....
I think that all appealing should be done away with. You're either out or you're not, I don't understand why (other than because its tradition) that a team has to appeal.
If the umpire thinks that a player is out, they should just give them out immediately.
I love a big appeal, that splt second of either hope or fear that the decision is pending or your playing armchair umpire by giving a decision to then have the umpire on confirm it, it's one of the joys of watching.
As a former wicket keeper till my mid 20's and then slipper in later years a good team appeal was brilliant to be involved in. If we thought the umpire was crap the word often went around the cordon that we were going up big time next time it rapped the pads - got some decisions go our way with it too.
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I must admit I'm not a huge fan of Broad playing for Nottinghamshire yesterday, after he was supposedly resting during the ODI's
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One day internationals and TMS means the return of Charles Dagnall to the airwaves. He is, by some distance, the worst cricket commentator around.
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I must admit I'm not a huge fan of Broad playing for Nottinghamshire yesterday, after he was supposedly resting during the ODI's
I don't think he was rested, I thought he just wasn't picked.
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I'm really surprised that Willey isn't being given a chance. He's done really well when he's played so far and he offers a different angle.
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Hales is probably playing his way out of a chance of the winter tours at the moment.
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Some serious spin for Agar.
Good 50 for Roy.
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I do think Ali shouldn't be pigeonholed as a lower order batsman. He's a quality player and should be higher up.
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Roy's innings gave us an excellent platform on which to build a decent total. What we really need is our one day players to start turning these good starts into match-winning scores. Too many of our guys get themselves in and dominate for 50 or 60 runs and then get out.
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Hales is probably playing his way out of a chance of the winter tours at the moment.
Amazing to consider that fairly recently people were calling for his selection in the test side at the expense of Lyth.
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Well played Taylor, but we've completely lost our way since Morgan got out.
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We scored about 110 off the last 20 overs, which is below par. The middle order need to improve. Hopefully we'll bowl well.
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I think they should look at Taylor for number 5 in the Test team.
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Agreed. 25 short for par I reckon as well.
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Spin is going to be critical here. I'm not sure on Woakes, Finn and Plunkett as a ODI seam attack, it lacks variation. I think I'd have Willey or Topley in.
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All summer our bowling attack has struggled to take wickets in ODIs.
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Great catch by Finn and Rashid is bowling well
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Terrific bowling in the middle overs particularly by the spinners. I hope Taylor gets the recognition he deserves.
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Going forward we need to find a way of getting Root, Taylor and Morgan in the middle order of the ODI team
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Day night games in September win toss bat first win game.
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I do like David Willey he's definitely got something about him and along with his swing he gets nice bounce off the pitch.
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I do like David Willey he's definitely got something about him and along with his swing he gets nice bounce off the pitch.
He's certainly one to watch and seems a mature bowler who doesn't let poor overs get him down which is a good habit in one day cricket.
I think that he's looking to leave Northamptonshire, I'd like to see him at Edgbaston.
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I do like David Willey he's definitely got something about him and along with his swing he gets nice bounce off the pitch.
He's certainly one to watch and seems a mature bowler who doesn't let poor overs get him down which is a good habit in one day cricket.
I think that he's looking to leave Northamptonshire, I'd like to see him at Edgbaston.
He signed for Yorkshire a couple of weeks ago.
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I was going to say you must be quite happy with that Chris. If I'm honest I think that Willey offers more than Woakes if it's a choice between the two and it's mainly because of the left arm angle.
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Roy's drop of Maxwell could be costly.
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I do like David Willey he's definitely got something about him and along with his swing he gets nice bounce off the pitch.
He's certainly one to watch and seems a mature bowler who doesn't let poor overs get him down which is a good habit in one day cricket.
I think that he's looking to leave Northamptonshire, I'd like to see him at Edgbaston.
He signed for Yorkshire a couple of weeks ago.
I missed that, looks like it happened when I was on holiday. He will do well at Headingley.
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I was going to say you must be quite happy with that Chris. If I'm honest I think that Willey offers more than Woakes if it's a choice between the two and it's mainly because of the left arm angle.
Very happy, think they are possibly thinking long term as Sidebottom possibly only has one more season in him. They'll certainly miss him when he calls it a day!
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This partnership is looking pretty dangerous.
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Very good spell from Willey but the other bowlers haven't backed him up well enough just yet. We really need to get Maxwell soon, he's the big threat here.
and as I type that he hits 16 from 3 off Rashid.
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Very good spell from Willey but the other bowlers haven't backed him up well enough just yet. We really need to get Maxwell soon, he's the big threat here.
and as I type that he hits 16 from 3 off Rashid.
I thought Wood bowled pretty well at the start. That drop of Maxwell is looking like a massive error.
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I've only just tuned in
Who's this commentating on TMS at the moment ?
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Very good spell from Willey but the other bowlers haven't backed him up well enough just yet. We really need to get Maxwell soon, he's the big threat here.
and as I type that he hits 16 from 3 off Rashid.
I thought Wood bowled pretty well at the start. That drop of Maxwell is looking like a massive error.
Wood bowled ok but wasn't all that threatening.
Good lad Mo, that's a massive wicket.
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Mo does have a good knack of getting key wickets. We could do with a clatter of wickets here though.
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I've only just tuned in
Who's this commentating on TMS at the moment ?
I think it's someone called Dan Norcross, I find him a bit irritating.
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I've only just tuned in
Who's this commentating on TMS at the moment ?
I think it's someone called Dan Norcross, I find him a bit irritating.
Blimey, the BBC must be struggling for commentators.
Has Daggers been on yet ?
I like TMS but cannot listen when Charlie is on
EDIT - Bollocks, here he comes
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I really hope I don't jinx him here but it's bowling like this which makes me think Mo is well worth persevering with as a front line bowler, he's not got as many wickets as I'd have liked but he's been intelligent, got a key wicket and has done a good job of stifling their scoring at one end.
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Brilliant over this, both settled batsmen out in 3 balls and they've not got a massive amount of batting left now if we can get one of this pair quickly we've got a great chance of not letting them bat out their overs. I think they'll be looking at 260-270 as a good finish now.
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We're clawing ourselves back into this game.
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Mo's bowling has improved as the summer's gone on, it's because he's getting overs under his belt. We've fought back really well, we need to finish the job.
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We shouldn't have let them get near 300 really.
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We shouldn't have let them get near 300 really.
No, there was some pretty poor bowling in the last 7-8 overs there. If you bowl good lengths and get hit to the rope then it's good batting but there were a few full tosses and few that were right in the arc to be smashed, T20 should be teaching players about death bowling but we've just forgotten the lessons there.
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Hales has had a shocker of a series.
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I'm glad people are finally taking notice of Taylor. He is a quality player and for me he should be pushing for the number 5 slot in the Test side.
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Roy has also done really well this series, he's actually looked much better than I thought he was.
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Jinxed him there!
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No problem with RR here ...it's that wickets column that bothers me.
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No problem with RR here ...it's that wickets column that bothers me.
I was worried about that, this partnership is easing those concerns, if we can get to the 35th over or so we should have the firepower later to make the runs.
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Morgan has invented a new shot. The hopping dance drive over the roof.
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2 stunning catches from Maxwell
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Stunning doesn't do it justice. Superman.
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Morgan did brilliantly. He's had an excellent series.
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Great stuff.............Smith looked well hacked off
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Stunning doesn't do it justice. Superman.
The second catch was pretty incredible really. To have the agility and speed of thought to pull that off in a split second was something special.
I really like the look of the ODI side now, especially when you think Buttler and Root have got to come back in. A lot of good performances today, but David Willey just seems to have a bit of a Midas touch at the moment.
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Can't say I agree with Morgan getting MOM when you look at what Maxwell did. Scored runs when, initially, they were in a dodgy position; took two outstanding catches (one to dismiss Morgan when he could have won the game on his own) and bowled his overs without conceding the runs per over required.
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Stunning doesn't do it justice. Superman.
Just seen the two Maxwell catches.
If there are any candidates to better his catch of Plunkett as the best of all time, I'd be interest to see them
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Fair to sat that since Jason Gillespie arrived everything has improved at Yorkshire, especially the fielding.
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Those catches needed two people. Maxwell did it all himself
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The size of this guy makes me love this catch and I remember it well:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5S2ca4oeJd8
And this is great, I don't remember it but it came up on YouTube;
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w3GWYQlb0oQ
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Those catches needed two people. Maxwell did it all himself
I know. Taught in Yorkshire!
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That's woeful from the umpire and Hales.
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They're going to really have to go some to win it from here. A lot depending on these two now.
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Think that might ends Hales hopes of a winter tour.
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Bugger. This match has gone now I fear, even though we bat deep.
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I hope Morgan is ok, that was a bad one
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It was and he didn't look at all right walking off.
Starc is also very visibly upset by it all.
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Morgan should not take apart again today, you can't risk it with those types of injuries.
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That'll knock all the air out of the game. The principal concern is Morgan's health. Hopefully he's just a bit groggy.
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Think we're buried here.
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Game over.
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Moeen gone, doesn't look like we'll make much north of 100 at this rate.
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Rashid uses a V12. Isn't that a kids' bat?
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Pretty dismal end to the summer.
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The day started badly and went downhill from there. No point in having all this batting depth if they (Morgan, Stokes and Rashid excepted) completely bottle it.
Aussies will knock this off in about 15 overs.
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Pretty dismal end to the summer.
A summer that seemingly everybody wrote off? I'd say it's merely disappointing losing the decider in a five match ODI series against the world champions.
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The batting collapse was inevitable after Roy ludicrously failed to review his LBW (absolutely horrendous umpiring btw). I'm not sure about batting first at 10:30 in mid September.
It has been an exciting summer of cricket all told. We have to keep moving forward in the same vein now.
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Just a quick comment on the passing of Brian Close. Didn't see his playing career, but have read a bit about him. Amazing to think he was 45 when he faced that onslaught from the West Indies and did so with no helmet or the body protection we see today. My two favourite stories about him are Mike Brearley's one when he said Close used to stand at short leg and instruct fielders around him to catch the ball if it hit his body and went up in the air and Michael Vaughan's one today about when he was a young player at Yorkshire struggling with LBWs. He said Close, then in his 60's, got in the nets and began batting with no pads on. "Only way you'll learn lad".
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Just a quick comment on the passing of Brian Close. Didn't see his playing career, but have read a bit about him. Amazing to think he was 45 when he faced that onslaught from the West Indies and did so with no helmet or the body protection we see today. My two favourite stories about him are Mike Brearley's one when he said Close used to stand at short leg and instruct fielders around him to catch the ball if it hit his body and went up in the air and Michael Vaughan's one today about when he was a young player at Yorkshire struggling with LBWs. He said Close, then in his 60's, got in the nets and began batting with no pads on. "Only way you'll learn lad".
I have a vivid memory of that series. On a number of occasions he seemed to let the ball hit him in the chest, and then refuse to show any reaction to the bowler.
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Former England one-day captain Paul Collingwood and former Sri Lanka captain Mahela Jayawardene have been appointed to the England management team as consultants, the England and Wales Cricket Board has announced.
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Nottinghamshire batsman Alex Hales and Surrey all-rounder Zafar Ansari could make their England Test debuts in the UAE after being selected in the squad for the series against Pakistan.
Hales's county colleague James Taylor is also named, after impressing during the one-day series with Australia.
There is no place for Yorkshire's Gary Ballance and Adam Lyth, with the latter dropped after a poor Ashes series.
The three-Test series begins in Abu Dhabi on 13 October.
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I am quite surprised by the squad selection. I'm delighted to see Taylor in the squad, I'm surprised Hales has made it and I'm quite surprised that Ballance isn't back in.
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Squads & press release
http://www.ecb.co.uk/news/articles/hales-and-ansari-included-test-squad
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Think Taylor is very lucky to be in the Test squad, he averaged 43.53 in white ball crucket which was boosted by an innings of 291, without it he'd average 28.21, which is very err... average. If they're using his ODI form fair enough but that doesn't explain Hales!
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Hales scored a shedload at the start of the season, and really should have been picked against NZ. He is just extremely talented.
I think of all the opening options, it was just a no brainer to pick Hales
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Think Taylor is very lucky to be in the Test squad, he averaged 43.53 in white ball crucket which was boosted by an innings of 291, without it he'd average 28.21, which is very err... average. If they're using his ODI form fair enough but that doesn't explain Hales!
I think Taylor is long overdue a chance. Yeah he hasn't had the greatest year, but he's produced over a long period of time. I imagine his ODI form clinched it.
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Former England one-day captain Paul Collingwood and former Sri Lanka captain Mahela Jayawardene have been appointed to the England management team as consultants, the England and Wales Cricket Board has announced.
Two excellent appointments there.
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Anyone has experience of dislocations - especially hand digits - and know how long they take to heal?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cricket-2015/content/story/920975.html
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Anyone has experience of dislocations - especially hand digits - and know how long they take to heal?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cricket-2015/content/story/920975.html
For a thumb you'd be lucky to be back inside a month.
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Great end to the One Day final, Surrey need 7 off 5 with 1 wicket left.
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Finn's figures this morning in the warm up game against Pakistan A:
7.3 - 5 - 2 - 4
Impressive.
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Moeen Ali out twice in a day against Pakistan A in the UAE today.
We do have a problem at the top of the order and haven't had a settled opening partnership since Strauss retired and our batting has generally been poor since.
Compton, Carberry, Trott, Lyth, Robson and Root have all been tried and have scored 5 centuries as openers between them. If they go with Ali as Cook's 7th opening partner post-Strauss, let's hope it works otherwise our batting malaise is likely to continue.
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I hadn't taken much notice of the warm up games until I saw the scores of 192-12 and 198-11 and wondered what the bloody hell was going on!
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I hadn't taken much notice of the warm up games until I saw the scores of 192-12 and 198-11 and wondered what the bloody hell was going on!
Not even playing in the parks did we have such bonkers games!
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I hadn't taken much notice of the warm up games until I saw the scores of 192-12 and 198-11 and wondered what the bloody hell was going on!
Not even playing in the parks did we have such bonkers games!
The whole thing does seem barmy but an agreement was made prior to the games starting, 2 x 2 day matches, that each team would have one
day each to bat, hence 12 wickets in the 'A' team innings and 11 in ours. Ali made such a pigs ear of his first innings (7) that he got the opportunity to bat for a 2nd time adding a measly further 13 runs.
James Taylor also batting a 2nd time but originally he retired his first innings along with Ian Bell at lunch and went on to make, i think 61.
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Nice to have TMS on in the morning again. I've always loved listening to cricket on dark, cold mornings.
Lost the toss and we're bowling.
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Yeah me too, it makes me think of Christmas. Bloody annoying that Bell dropped Malik, on these pitches you really can't afford dropped catches.
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This is going to be a real struggle.
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It was a poor drop by Bell.
I'm concerned that we seem to be trying too many things. Whilst it is always good to have a plan B and even a plan C, we seem to trying too many variations. On one hand it is understandable when you're searching for wickets; I really feel that tight bowling that contains the batsman and makes them lose patience and play rash shots is a much better plan.
Also, how empty is the ground? Around 7am Tuffers was on TMS and was speculating that there were no more than 80 in the stands. You have to hope that Pakistan can eventually return to playing in Pakistan so you get a test match with a bit of atmosphere.
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Wicket off a no-ball now.
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Wickets from no balls seem to afflict England more than any of the other nations, i wonder if hey bowl like that in the nets?
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Wickets from no balls seem to afflict England more than any of the other nations, i wonder if hey bowl like that in the nets?
First no ball of the day (first extra even), so no, just unlucky.
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Pakistan will be disappointed with less than 700 here I reckon.
Test matches in the UAE are awful, no fans, no atmosphere, horrible slow pitches.
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TMS reckoned that if you added up all the players, support staff and media it would come to more than the number of spectators
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Wickets from no balls seem to afflict England more than any of the other nations, i wonder if hey bowl like that in the nets?
First no ball of the day (first extra even), so no, just unlucky.
First no balled called. It's a big difference, I guarantee there's been more no balls but umpires don't check until a wicket falls. It's the bowler's mistake, but the umpires are culpable as well because the bowlers are never called for overstepping before a wicket falls. So they don't know their run up is wrong until it's too late.
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Pakistan will be disappointed with less than 700 here I reckon.
Test matches in the UAE are awful, no fans, no atmosphere, horrible slow pitches.
Probably not 700 but 400 plus (as scoring is slow) however with Yasir Shah out injured this should be a draw.
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Wickets from no balls seem to afflict England more than any of the other nations, i wonder if hey bowl like that in the nets?
First no ball of the day (first extra even), so no, just unlucky.
First no balled called. It's a big difference, I guarantee there's been more no balls but umpires don't check until a wicket falls. It's the bowler's mistake, but the umpires are culpable as well because the bowlers are never called for overstepping before a wicket falls. So they don't know their run up is wrong until it's too late.
If they're not looking except at wickets, then I don't agree with that. As a bowler, I always appreciated it when umpires gave me a friendly warning that I was getting close (translation : you were over and I let you off this once), but you definitely need to know if you're past the line, or you'll just keep doing it.
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Wickets from no balls seem to afflict England more than any of the other nations, i wonder if hey bowl like that in the nets?
First no ball of the day (first extra even), so no, just unlucky.
First no balled called. It's a big difference, I guarantee there's been more no balls but umpires don't check until a wicket falls. It's the bowler's mistake, but the umpires are culpable as well because the bowlers are never called for overstepping before a wicket falls. So they don't know their run up is wrong until it's too late.
If they're not looking except at wickets, then I don't agree with that. As a bowler, I always appreciated it when umpires gave me a friendly warning that I was getting close (translation : you were over and I let you off this once), but you definitely need to know if you're past the line, or you'll just keep doing it.
That's definitely the case, the sky commentators made a big deal of it all through the ashes.
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Wickets from no balls seem to afflict England more than any of the other nations, i wonder if hey bowl like that in the nets?
First no ball of the day (first extra even), so no, just unlucky.
First no balled called. It's a big difference, I guarantee there's been more no balls but umpires don't check until a wicket falls. It's the bowler's mistake, but the umpires are culpable as well because the bowlers are never called for overstepping before a wicket falls. So they don't know their run up is wrong until it's too late.
If they're not looking except at wickets, then I don't agree with that. As a bowler, I always appreciated it when umpires gave me a friendly warning that I was getting close (translation : you were over and I let you off this once), but you definitely need to know if you're past the line, or you'll just keep doing it.
That's definitely the case, the sky commentators made a big deal of it all through the ashes.
There is so much technology available at tests these days that the detection of no balls should sit with the TV umpire. That would go some way to curing bowlers from overstepping.
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Sounds like Misbah got a bit of a shocker when it was reviewed. But England have done quite well to keep plugging away, we could do with another couple though.
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Sounds like Misbah got a bit of a shocker when it was reviewed. But England have done quite well to keep plugging away, we could do with another couple though.
They played about 73 replays and I wouldn't have given it. Without HotSpot or Snicko evidence, that was extremely harsh.
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Bell has dropped two sitters today. Things are not going well for him at the moment.
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That's shocking from Bell. Once is bad, but twice on a pitch like this is absolutely atrocious. I do think the bell is tolling on his international career. If he'd held those two catches we would have had a good day.
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This bit of excerpt from BBC really highlights how good a bats man Cook is as Younis and Chanderpaul are much older than him.
"Pakistan batsman Younis Khan has become his country's all-time leading Test run scorer on the first day of the first Test against England.
When he reached 21 in Abu Dhabi he overtook Javed Miandad's mark of 8,832, which has stood since 1993.
Younis, 37, is playing in his 102nd Test having made his debut in 2000.
He is now the 15th highest run scorer in Test history, and third among active players, behind only Shiv Chanderpaul and Alastair Cook."
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You can almost guarantee that those dropped catches mean that Bell won't get any runs now. He's always been a confidence player.
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Ian Bell is finished anyway, he's shelled about 10 catches this summer.
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You can almost guarantee that those dropped catches mean that Bell won't get any runs now. He's always been a confidence player.
Vaughan just said as much on TMS.
Bell's drops and the wicket from a no ball means that we've given them three lives. It's difficult enough to take wickets in those conditions and it's vital to take the chances when they are presented. Pakistan 7 down at stumps looks a lot better from an English perspective than 4 down.
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This is getting brutal.
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Can any Warwickshire supporters out there, who no doubt know more about cricket than me, run me through what Ian Bell brings to the team to justify selection?
Not trying to start an argument but I really can't see it in him.
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I'm not a Warwickshire fan, but Bell has had an excellent career at Test level. However he has incredibly fragile confidence and as he gets older that seems to be getting worse. I think he's on borrowed time now, because his form with the bat has been very poor.
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I wonder what the odds are on Pakistan being 500/600 - 6 declared and then us being about 150/6.
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I wonder what the odds are on Pakistan being 500/600 - 6 declared and then us being about 150/6.
The pitch hasn't offered anything to our pretty average spinners. Once we get into day 3 and beyond it will deteriorate and their spinners will wreck havoc with our fragile batting line up. I can see them batting most of today and declaring about 30 minutes before the close. Our batsmen will be tired after almost 2 days in the field and will face a difficult few overs.
It's all about playing for the draw now, trouble is I have no confidence in our batting line up to see us through to safety.
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Can any Warwickshire supporters out there, who no doubt know more about cricket than me, run me through what Ian Bell brings to the team to justify selection?
Not trying to start an argument but I really can't see it in him.
I rate Bell but he is on borrowed time.
His stats just about justify continued selection and I think that leaving him out would leave us very short of experience in the batting line up.
For the record, he's got over 7,500 test runs, 22 test centuries and is 9th on our list of all-time test run scorers. Only Pietersen and Cook have scored more test centuries. He also virtually won the 2013 home Ashes series as the only batsman in form. He's also won 5 Ashes series, a record he shares with Botham.
Whenever he's been at risk of being dropped, he's produced an innings that counts. His batting has been in decline for a couple of seasons and I'm not sure he has the confidence to dig in and play that big innings.
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Bell has had his day. His language after the Ashes suggested he knew it too.
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Utterly pointless and boring Test match on an utterly boring shite flat pitch.
Win toss, bat and win if it cracks up or it's a draw.
They should have a rule where preparing a pitch as utterly boring as this is banned.
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Can any Warwickshire supporters out there, who no doubt know more about cricket than me, run me through what Ian Bell brings to the team to justify selection?
Not trying to start an argument but I really can't see it in him.
I rate Bell but he is on borrowed time.
His stats just about justify continued selection and I think that leaving him out would leave us very short of experience in the batting line up.
For the record, he's got over 7,500 test runs, 22 test centuries and is 9th on our list of all-time test run scorers. Only Pietersen and Cook have scored more test centuries. He also virtually won the 2013 home Ashes series as the only batsman in form. He's also won 5 Ashes series, a record he shares with Botham.
Whenever he's been at risk of being dropped, he's produced an innings that counts. His batting has been in decline for a couple of seasons and I'm not sure he has the confidence to dig in and play that big innings.
His career stats might justify his place, but his stats over the last year definitely don't. Also unfortunately for him the two people he dropped went on to score 98 and at least 100 respectively. I think Taylor would actually be a good option at 3.
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I think Buttler standing up to Anderson says everything you need to know about this pitch.
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It doesn't help either that we have probably our worst spin duo for quite a long time.
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From the BBC "Leg-spinner Adil Rashid has bowled 34 overs for figures of 0-163, the worst return for any bowler on Test debut."
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Hope Rashid gets treated better than Kerrigan did.
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It doesn't help either that we have probably our worst spin duo for quite a long time.
It's not the players fault, they are the best that we have available. We rarely produce decent spinners.
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I disagree that Moeen is one of the two best spinners in England.
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Regardless spinners tend to do terribly at this ground in the first innings. It is going to be a real struggle when we bat.
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I disagree that Moeen is one of the two best spinners in England.
The thing is he might not be, but I don't think there isn't much between the English spinners. They're all pretty average we don't have a stand out match winner. Ali offers the team a decent spinner and a very good batsman and that gives the team flexibility. For someone to take his place they're going to have be an excellent spinner.
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Flat pitch or not that's an excellent effort from Cook and Ali to get to the close. They would have been exhausted after two days in the field. It's nice to have an opening pair actually building a partnership.
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It doesn't help either that we have probably our worst spin duo for quite a long time.
It's not the players fault, they are the best that we have available. We rarely produce decent spinners.
Who, in world cricket, is producing world class spinners right now, the dearth seems to be much wider than just English cricket as far as I'm concerned, I can't recall a seeing any decent young-ish spinner who's action is entirely legal for a while.
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We, and the ICC, should be more concerned with the type of pitches produced in Abu Dhabi. They are dead and shockingly bad. Pakistan haven't got two spinners that should pose a threat to us. That's not to say we won't contribute to our own downfall given the chance.
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Before we start slagging off the pitch too much just remember that previous test matches played there have produced results. (4 out of 7 much the same as any other pitch around the world). Test cricket is not just about fast bouncy pitches or green seam and swing variety that we have in this country. If this match ends with both team putting up 500+ and a draw then it's down to lack of skill in bowling department. England spin attack is not international class and Pakistan only have one bowler in that cat, Yasir Shah, and he is injured.
A dusty pitch that cracks up is just as relevant as a green top.
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Some interesting comments from Middlesex spinner Ollie Rayner.
Without wishing to sound full of self-pity, it is not easy being an English spin bowler at this moment in time. All we ever hear is that the cupboard is bare, but the simple truth is that we don't play in conditions that help young spinners to develop.
The current schedule packs half the Championship matches in before the end of May, a notorious time in terms of the weather and certainly not a period in which you'll find bunsens being prepared.
All you can hope to do as a spinner is bowl as much as you can, keep it tight and earn the right to stay in the side for the drier months of the season. But then, just when you'd expect spin bowlers to come into their own in July and August, there's a big block of one-day cricket to disrupt your rhythm before the Championship comes to the crunch in September.
In addition, there are T20s dotted all through the season, which I am not a fan of, to be brutally honest. The schedule forces you to go from one extreme discipline to the other, and many spinners have totally different actions in each form to deliver what they need to.
The plight of the English spin bowler (http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=53355.3240)
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Before we start slagging off the pitch too much just remember that previous test matches played there have produced results. (4 out of 7 much the same as any other pitch around the world). Test cricket is not just about fast bouncy pitches or green seam and swing variety that we have in this country. If this match ends with both team putting up 500+ and a draw then it's down to lack of skill in bowling department. England spin attack is not international class and Pakistan only have one bowler in that cat, Yasir Shah, and he is injured.
A dusty pitch that cracks up is just as relevant as a green top.
Scores in the 3 draws
1 v SA 2010
SA 1st inns 584 - 9 dec
PAK 1st Inns 434
SA 2nd Inns 203 -5 dec
PAK 2nd Inns 153 - 3
all about the runs
2nd draw v SL 2011
SL 1st inns 197
PAK 1st Inns 511 - 6 dec
SL 2nd Inns 483
PAk 2nd Inns 21 - 1
as the first test after low 1st SL innings
3rd drawn test v SL 2013/14
SL 1st inns 204
PAK 1st inns 383
SL 2nd Inns 480 - 5 dec
PAK 2nd Inns 158 - 2
not as bad but still bat heavily starting to dominate
The 4 results saw victories of 7 wickets, 248, and 356 runs.
There was also the test that was on by Pakistan when bowling England out for 70 odd when chasing 140.
Abu Dhabi is a horrible track that breaks up allowing for low sharp turn. I hate the way test cricket has become just a home team only forum. Its cheating.
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Some interesting comments from Middlesex spinner Ollie Rayner.
Without wishing to sound full of self-pity, it is not easy being an English spin bowler at this moment in time. All we ever hear is that the cupboard is bare, but the simple truth is that we don't play in conditions that help young spinners to develop.
The current schedule packs half the Championship matches in before the end of May, a notorious time in terms of the weather and certainly not a period in which you'll find bunsens being prepared.
All you can hope to do as a spinner is bowl as much as you can, keep it tight and earn the right to stay in the side for the drier months of the season. But then, just when you'd expect spin bowlers to come into their own in July and August, there's a big block of one-day cricket to disrupt your rhythm before the Championship comes to the crunch in September.
In addition, there are T20s dotted all through the season, which I am not a fan of, to be brutally honest. The schedule forces you to go from one extreme discipline to the other, and many spinners have totally different actions in each form to deliver what they need to.
The plight of the English spin bowler (http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=53355.3240)
There's a lot of sense in what Rayner says and in an interview at the start of September Jeetan Patel said pretty much the same thing. Patel is probably the best spinner currently playing on the county circuit and when he says English spinners don't practice enough and cites Rayner as an example, you have the benefit of real insight.
Practice Makes Perfect (http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cricket-2015/content/story/917767.html)
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Oh Mo you really needed to fill your boots there.
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Oh Mo you really needed to fill your boots there.
It's not a massive score but I think he's done his job here, if we can get the openers regularly facing 40ish overs then we'll be much stronger than we have been for years, having over a hundred on the board when you lose your first wicket is a good habit to get into, regardless of how those runs are shared out. If all Mo does is block up and end for 40 overs and let Cook be a little more expansive at the other end then I'm happy with that, he's one of the best openers in world cricket, if we can get him confident in his partner so he plays his natural game then everyone wins.
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I'm happy with their partnership, it's just it was a good opportunity for him.
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Oh Mo you really needed to fill your boots there.
It's not a massive score but I think he's done his job here, if we can get the openers regularly facing 40ish overs then we'll be much stronger than we have been for years, having over a hundred on the board when you lose your first wicket is a good habit to get into, regardless of how those runs are shared out. If all Mo does is block up and end for 40 overs and let Cook be a little more expansive at the other end then I'm happy with that, he's one of the best openers in world cricket, if we can get him confident in his partner so he plays his natural game then everyone wins.
That's how I read the situation. Plus it was a good dismissal by the Pakistan keeper, so he could consider himself to be slightly unlucky.
My only concern is that you eventually reach a point when he will need to start turning good starts into meaningful scores.
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I see the focus from the press appears to be on Rashid's 'worst ever Test debut' figures, not much mention of Ali's figures. Giving him his debut on a pitch like that when they had the poor bloke carry the drinks in the West Indies without giving him a bowl wasn't the greatest way to blood a player they are obviously still not convinced by. How many runs did the two dropped catches and the no ball wicket end up costing the team?
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I see the focus from the press appears to be on Rashid's 'worst ever Test debut' figures, not much mention of Ali's figures. Giving him his debut on a pitch like that when they had the poor bloke carry the drinks in the West Indies without giving him a bowl wasn't the greatest way to blood a player they are obviously still not convinced by. How many runs did the two dropped catches and the no ball wicket end up costing the team?
More than Rashid's figures that's for sure.
If we avoid the follow on, it will be interesting to see how he does on a wearing pitch in their second innings.
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Good, solid innings by Cook, 100 out of 164-1.
Need plenty more though please skipper!
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I see the focus from the press appears to be on Rashid's 'worst ever Test debut' figures, not much mention of Ali's figures. Giving him his debut on a pitch like that when they had the poor bloke carry the drinks in the West Indies without giving him a bowl wasn't the greatest way to blood a player they are obviously still not convinced by. How many runs did the two dropped catches and the no ball wicket end up costing the team?
It's an easy stat to throw up, but it's not really reflective of anything.
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I think the fact that spin hasn't yet taken a wicket in England's innings shows that the pitch isn't suited to it.
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Excellent hundred from Cook, now make it a big one.
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Bell is starting to settle a little now, there's been a couple of nice looking shots in the last few overs after looking scared for the first 50-55 deliveries.
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Only another 160 odd runs until Bell is back in credit.
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Cook has got a better sloppy since he got his hundred. Hopefully the tea break will get him back in gear.
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Fair play to Bell, that's a well scratched out 50 from a guy who's clearly out of form and made a couple of really bad errors in this test, he's shown a lot of character
here. Just a shame it's in a match that has draw written all over it.
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I think Taylor is the long term replacment for Bell, he's a class player.
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Three days into the test match and an aggregate of 813-11 off 261 overs isn't the best advert for test cricket.
Pity Bell got out towards the end but barring a spectacular collapse we've virtually secured a very tedious draw.
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I think Taylor is the long term replacment for Bell, he's a class player.
agreed....as much as I like Bell he looks a shadow of the batsmen we know he can be...
COYB
The Doc
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I hate the way test cricket has become just a home team only forum. Its cheating.
Agreed. I feel for the Team that has to play test matches in england in May. It's almost unfair to ask them to play cricket when the temperature is 15 degrees on a lush green pitch!
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I hate the way test cricket has become just a home team only forum. Its cheating.
Agreed. I feel for the Team that has to play test matches in england in May. It's almost unfair to ask them to play cricket when the temperature is 15 degrees on a lush green pitch!
There hasn't been a proper green top in England for many years now.
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I hate the way test cricket has become just a home team only forum. Its cheating.
Agreed. I feel for the Team that has to play test matches in england in May. It's almost unfair to ask them to play cricket when the temperature is 15 degrees on a lush green pitch!
That's the weather though and we've always played early tests because of a tight schedule. the weather is one thing deliberately doctoring oitches is another. I have no problem with England having to play in scorching heat but there's no way better pitches cannot be prepared.
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I hate the way test cricket has become just a home team only forum. Its cheating.
Agreed. I feel for the Team that has to play test matches in england in May. It's almost unfair to ask them to play cricket when the temperature is 15 degrees on a lush green pitch!
I agree with you to a point, but in reality there's a reason why the Aussies usually play the first test of a home summer in Brisbane which is considered to be the fastest track in the world. Those conditions favour them as English conditions favour us.
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It's not a doctored pitch though. Weather and traditional pitches are one thing but preparing specific pitches for specific games is very John Beckish and is detrimental to test cricket.
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I am not sure pitches in UAE are necessarily doctored. This is harsh landscape and unless someone is willing to spend lot of money to replace the entire square about a meter deep with soil imported from somewhere else it's always going to be flat and lifeless.
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I am not sure pitches in UAE are necessarily doctored. This is harsh landscape and unless someone is willing to spend lot of money to replace the entire square about a meter deep with soil imported from somewhere else it's always going to be flat and lifeless.
It's not surprising they don't spend invest in the square. They don't play that many games at the ground and if the security situation were to drastically improve then Pakistan would very quickly be looking to play at home anyway.
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Cook's innings is remarkable particularly as he's been on the field for the entire match so far. I think he went off with a couple of overs to go before the close on day one but other than that, at lunch on day 4 he's still out there.
400-3 at lunch, Cook 204, Root 76. That was a pretty good session for England. I wonder if they will try and force a result? It will take a pretty special bowling effort on this pitch but Bayliss is a pretty attacking coach so you never know.
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Excellent morning and Root raced along. Cook's done really well.
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Annoying that Root didn't get a hundred, but an excellent score in any case.
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This is a truly abysmal pitch, any game where a team takes the 3rd new ball the home side should be fined over the state of the pitch, maybe harsh but it completely undermines the sport to have games like this. I'd genuinely rather see a game over in 3 days than see one where you'd need 7-8 days to stand a chance of a result.
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Bairstow hasn't taken the opportunity to secure his place there. This is a big innings for Buttler.
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Forgot about Stokes!
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Alastair Cook has now batted longer than the combined total match time of England at the rugby and football world cups #bbccricket #PAKvENG
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Cook's innings is the longest by an Englishman in test history.
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Kiss of death....sorry skipper! Out to a tired sweep. He must be knackered.
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Is it just me or have a few started to bounce a bit 'odd' in the last 6-7 overs? Maybe the pitch is starting to do something eventually.
Aww, and there goes Cook, brilliant innings and it seemed to be a top edge so maybe there is something in the bounce now.
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Buttler needs an innings of substance here.
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Well played Cook that was a great knock.
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This is why I love Cook. He is the only batsman we have with the mentality and patience to score the proper big hundreds that other country's top batters tend to get.
And it's also great to see we handled the scoreboard pressure.
Let's see how close Cook can get to Lara, nothing else to play for in this match. There can't have been many tests without even two completed innings in 5 days, so maybe that to play for if the tail can hang around!
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This is why I love Cook. He is the only batsman we have with the mentality and patience to score the proper big hundreds that other country's top batters tend to get.
And it's also great to see we handled the scoreboard pressure.
Let's see how close Cook can get to Lara, nothing else to play for in this match. There can't have been many tests without even two completed innings in 5 days, so maybe that to play for if the tail can hang around!
He's out so Lara's record remains intact.
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Looks like it was a no ball that got him though, was certainly very close.
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Buttler out when he needed runs, but he's trying to speed up the game and that was the right thing to do.
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Buttler out when he needed runs, but he's trying to speed up the game and that was the right thing to do.
I'll actually give him a lot of credit, he tried to do what the game (and England) needed rather than trying to scratch around into some form. The chances of a result in this game are incredibly slim but for it to even be a possibility England need to get as big a lead as possible tonight and then try to bowl them out cheap tomorrow with enough time left for a slog at the end, a flurry of boundaries this evening helps towards that.
I think the tactic was probably "stick around and support the skipper but if he goes it's shackles off get as many as we can".
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Looks like it was a no ball that got him though, was certainly very close.
That was a strange one. Shoaib Malik certainly seemed to overstep, but his action is such that he drags his foot back over the line, thus giving the impression that it's a legal delivery. I think the law is based upon where the foot lands in relation to the popping crease and not where it is when you release the ball. So it was a no ball.
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That was a strange one. Shoaib Malik certainly seemed to overstep, but his action is such that he drags his foot back over the line, thus giving the impression that it's a legal delivery. I think the law is based upon where the foot lands in relation to the popping crease and not where it is when you release the ball. So it was a no ball.
Correct
5. Fair delivery - the feet
For a delivery to be fair in respect of the feet, in the delivery stride,
(a) the bowler’s back foot must land within and not touching the return crease appertaining to his stated mode of delivery.
(b) the bowler’s front foot must land with some part of the foot, whether grounded or raised
(i) on the same side of the imaginary line joining the two middle stumps as the return crease described in (a) above and (ii) behind the popping crease.
If the bowler’s end umpire is not satisfied that all of these three conditions have been met, he shall call and signal No ball.
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I am not sure pitches in UAE are necessarily doctored. This is harsh landscape and unless someone is willing to spend lot of money to replace the entire square about a meter deep with soil imported from somewhere else it's always going to be flat and lifeless.
This is Abu Dhabi. They've built a city in a desert. They play on lush football pitches. They have created man made water parks. They have a grand prix. They can bloody well spend money on a pitch if they wanted to.
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Cook joins the list of All Time Great Batsmen. Well played fella.
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This pitch is knackered specifically because they left grass on to try and prevent it falling apart in the heat. The main issue is playing at this time of year in the UAE.
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Looks like it was a no ball that got him though, was certainly very close.
That was a strange one. Shoaib Malik certainly seemed to overstep, but his action is such that he drags his foot back over the line, thus giving the impression that it's a legal delivery. I think the law is based upon where the foot lands in relation to the popping crease and not where it is when you release the ball. So it was a no ball.
Yeah if you watch it at mid stride his foot is about 6 inches over but by the time his toes land it's closer and once his heel is down he's just touching the line before sliding back another 4-5 inches. By the law (as above) it looks a banker for a no ball but at the time I had the sound off and I've never seen anyone with that action before and I wasn't sure what effect it had on the law I had no idea but it looked wrong. I do wonder if either Buttler or Cook even know that law well enough to have justified an appeal though, looks like one that in the game no one really had any reason to question but in hindsight they got a gift.
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I am not sure pitches in UAE are necessarily doctored. This is harsh landscape and unless someone is willing to spend lot of money to replace the entire square about a meter deep with soil imported from somewhere else it's always going to be flat and lifeless.
This is Abu Dhabi. They've built a city in a desert. They play on lush football pitches. They have created man made water parks. They have a grand prix. They can bloody well spend money on a pitch if they wanted to.
There is no doubt Abu Dhabi sheikh's can do all that however this is Pakistan Cricket Board renting the facility and I doubt if they have enough money to take care of the pitch. They have paid out for the stadiums and also guaranteed a sum to England for coming over. There is next to nothing income from ticket sales so it's only the TV money to pay all their bills. I doubt it if they will break even.
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The crowds really are shameful, the ground is almost empty. It did amuse me when the sky team started watching the local league match on the scrubland instead, kinda summed up just how shit the game had become at that point.
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This is a truly abysmal pitch, any game where a team takes the 3rd new ball the home side should be fined over the state of the pitch, maybe harsh but it completely undermines the sport to have games like this. I'd genuinely rather see a game over in 3 days than see one where you'd need 7-8 days to stand a chance of a result.
Bit OTT ref "undermines the sport". It is a test match and both teams have delivered exactly what they had to do batting wise. Better bowlers may well have extracted more but there we are...
I think a pitch like this is just as bad as a pitch that delivers result is 3 days.
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The crowds really are shameful, the ground is almost empty. It did amuse me when the sky team started watching the local league match on the scrubland instead, kinda summed up just how shit the game had become at that point.
Yes getting fans in is a problem. The local Emiratis who can afford and have time show no interest in watching cricket. Migrant workers do but they are working flat out to make some money. They are almost bonded labour and can not take time off. There is some hope that day/night one dayers and Twenty/20 games will attract some crowd.
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This is a truly abysmal pitch, any game where a team takes the 3rd new ball the home side should be fined over the state of the pitch, maybe harsh but it completely undermines the sport to have games like this. I'd genuinely rather see a game over in 3 days than see one where you'd need 7-8 days to stand a chance of a result.
Bit OTT ref "undermines the sport". It is a test match and both teams have delivered exactly what they had to do batting wise. Better bowlers may well have extracted more but there we are...
I think a pitch like this is just as bad as a pitch that delivers result is 3 days.
not really. a 3 day game where every ball is spitting off the pitch and both teams struggle to scores around 200 is at least good TV, it's rubbish for purists and fans who have tickets for the later days but it's exciting and at least you get results. Dead pitches with low run rates, nothing for the bowlers and a draw on the cards by tea on day 2 are what puts people off test cricket and that's what I mean. If your first time watching test cricket after seeing T20 and ODIs was this I think it would be very easy to think 'nah fuck this boring shit, I'll go back to the rounders'. My problem isn't with batsmen scoring big runs, I think that's great, I just think the work for it should be more than just a feat of stamina (on a tangent, Cook deserves huge respect for his performance in this test, I doubt there's many people in the game who'd have still been going for as long as he did in these conditions after nearly 2 full days in the field).
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http://www.thenational.ae/sport/cricket/pakistans-spin-the-key-to-beating-england-not-being-catered-for-so-far-on-uae-pitches
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Good to see Adil Rashid finally get a wicket. He's bowled well today.
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Delighted for Dil. It's in these sort of situations when personal stats matter.
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fuck me sideways we might win this yet
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This is classic Test match cricket. Playing on the same bit of strip for 5 days continuously can change things dramatically. The problem is if England have to chase 100 or so in 20 overs on this pitch would they take the chance to hit out?
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This is classic Test match cricket. Playing on the same bit of strip for 5 days continuously can change things dramatically. The problem is if England have to chase 100 or so in 20 overs on this pitch would they take the chance to hit out?
they better had do!!!
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fuck me sideways we had better win this now
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how long/how many overs are we going to get
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About 4 overs ago they said 24 left in the day less changeover reduction so now I would say 16 or so at best?
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About 4 overs ago they said 24 left in the day less changeover reduction so now I would say 16 or so at best?
who you open with olaf
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this is gonna be good come on england
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So its 100 from 19 perfectly do able. To open? not Moeen or Cook. A 20/20 approach is needed as Pakistan will slow this right down darkness comes quickly so at best need to get these in 15.
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So its 100 from 19 perfectly do able. To open? not Moeen or Cook. A 20/20 approach is needed as Pakistan will slow this right down darkness comes quickly so at best need to get these in 15.
at least with spin we may get all the overs
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wasting fkn time on a review
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Haha you have seen nothing yet. Next 30 minutes is going to be the mother of all time wasting moments.
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Haha you have seen nothing yet. Next 30 minutes is going to be the mother of all time wasting moments.
will the floodlights not come into play
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Ali out.
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Not sure about floodlights as I think both teams have to agree. Also at two down if England lose another two it may be time to shut the shop!
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Clearly Pakistan think they can win this as well otherwise pace attack will slow down over rate dramatically.
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Root needs to win this in next 5 overs as there will be no more play after that.
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this is going to be close me thinks
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34 to win
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Mental game and superb effort from England regardless.
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so the villa boy is gonna win it for us?
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All over because of the light, good effort from England and not surprised the Pakistanis used ridiculous time wasting so that it would be a draw.
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Daft rules cost England. Great effort though.
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Umpires have been consistent. Today they played about 15 minutes longer than first four days .... Oh ok may be not consistent but they allowed more time today. Good effort all around and a good test match.
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Very pleased for Rashid. Well done lad.
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To be fair I don't think the timewasting affected the result and it wasn't as bad as in previous tests against Pakistan.
If the tables were turned we'd have slowed the over rate right down and used similar tactics.
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There's no sport that cares so little about the paying/TV audience as cricket.
No match should ever stop for bad light. All Test grounds have floodlights. Use them.
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There's no sport that cares so little about the paying/TV audience as cricket.
No match should ever stop for bad light. All Test grounds have floodlights. Use them.
The lights were on.
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Good effort all around and a good test match.
Apart from the first four days of tedium.
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If there's one rule that needs to be reviewed after this it's the bad light rule.
Previously the umpires offered it to the batsmen and if they didn't want to play on, off they went. This worked well for England when they won in the dark in India a few years back.
Now the umpires agree on a reading, and if it drops below that, off they go, no leeway, no chance for the bowling team to bring on spinners if they have a chance to win, no chance for a batting team to take the risks of not seeing the ball if they can win. And as cd says, it's just plain daft on a floodlit ground, it may be slightly dark but it won't be dangerous, and England would have been perfectly happy to face pace bowlers because they were going to win.
Cricket doesn't help itself at times does it?
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Oh and while I'm on a whinge, India and Pakistan should be forced to employ ALL available technology, not just the ones they like.
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Cricket doesn't help itself at times does it?
It's bloody difficult to explain what was going on to somebody who likes cricket but doesn't understand a lot of the ludicrous things that go on. My partner was understandably asking what the point of floodlights are if they are going to stop playing when the batsmen who are surely most at risk want to carry on playing? I love cricket but can understand why people can't be arsed with it!
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Isn't it to do with the ball though? As the stands get darker in the background the ball is harder to see, even with the lights on. I'm pretty sure that was the main reason that they switched to a white ball for limited overs so they could play under floodlights easier. There's a pink ball day-night test scheduled soon (next month I think) and a few companies have been working on yellow/yellow-green balls as well. If one of those can show that it ages similarly to the red ball (white balls most definitely do not) then I can foresee that change coming in for tests where the end of play and the end of natural daylight are about the same time or where overcast conditions are expected. Not using red balls will be a shame but if it resolves the problem of tests like this ending early (in terms of overs bowled) when a result was clearly on the cards then so be it.
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greeny yellow balls are a possibility for bad light....
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/cricket/article4589666.ece
UTV
The Doc
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The flip side is that spotting which side is shiny and which is rough is much harder with paler balls, so players like Jimmy should be really looking forward to this.
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Aleem Dar withdrawn from India/SA series (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/34575892)
Good umpire, but like anyone, doesn't deserve to be threatened like this. Bastards.
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Indeed.
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Apparently every Test side voted against the use of floodlights to extend Test matches in bad light as it might produce "adverse results".
I despair, I really do.
If it's not dangerous, play on.
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I don't really understand that argument, without rain you should be completing 90 overs a day. Allowing floodlights would allow uniformity of each day having 90 overs completed. It's not like England needed extra overs to win the other day, that would have been wrong, they just needed the opportunity to use all of the overs they were entitled to.
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I don't really understand that argument, without rain you should be completing 90 overs a day. Allowing floodlights would allow uniformity of each day having 90 overs completed. It's not like England needed extra overs to win the other day, that would have been wrong, they just needed the opportunity to use all of the overs they were entitled to.
More importantly it removes the benefits of the obvious time wasting that bowling teams do in that situation. Misbah completely took the piss with field changes with 2-3 minutes 'wasted' between overs and an over rate for the last session of less than 12 an hour. I'm not faulting him, any team would do it, but you have to question why there is so little interest to punish that behaviour, or at least nullify it.
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Oh and while I'm on a whinge, India and Pakistan should be forced to employ ALL available technology, not just the ones they like.
They should be forced to play against each other too. Utterly ludicrous that, arguably, the biggest rivalry in World sport is hardly ever played.
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Tough old pitch again, but good wicket for Moeen there.
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Not a bad session for England. Bairstow took a couple of good catches and generally we bowled well on another difficult pitch for the bowlers. Like the last test, 28 overs in and it looks untouched. No footmarks or other areas for the spinners to exploit. It's a better pitch than Abu Dhabi but still heavily weighted in favour of the batsman.
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Decent session for England, need to keep bowling tight and force the mistake.
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Ultimately that was a frustrating day for England. I thought we bowled with discipline and Wood in particular looked lively. It's almost a repeat of day one of the first test without the dropped catches or wickets from no balls.
Another wicket or two would have swung the game in our favour but Misbah batted really well. They have a pretty long tail so early wickets tomorrow are vital.
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What we do have on our side is that if we can negate their spin, and there's nothing remotely fearsome about the pitch with spin so far, then even if they get 400+ the pitch in the first innings should still not offer too much to see a spinner rip us out. I could happen and I'm still not confident that we've got away from a 30-3 batting line-up but these pitches won't tell us that. If there is no terrifying (for England) spin then I can't see their bowlers limiting us in the first innings and I think we'll win.
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What we do have on our side is that if we can negate their spin, and there's nothing remotely fearsome about the pitch with spin so far, then even if they get 400+ the pitch in the first innings should still not offer too much to see a spinner rip us out. I could happen and I'm still not confident that we've got away from a 30-3 batting line-up but these pitches won't tell us that. If there is no terrifying (for England) spin then I can't see their bowlers limiting us in the first innings and I think we'll win.
Yasir Shah, who missed the first test due to injury will trouble our fragile batting line up. In 10 tests he's taken 61 wickets which is a good return. If we can deal with him then we'll be in a strong position.
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If there is no terrifying (for England) spin then I can't see their bowlers limiting us in the first innings and I think we'll win.
Can I have some of that stuff you have been smoking?
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Aleem Dar withdrawn from India/SA series (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/34575892)
Good umpire, but like anyone, doesn't deserve to be threatened like this. Bastards.
It's a joke that so called world's biggest democracy is held to ransom by a bunch of religious zealots and their behaviour borders on terrorism. Shiv Sena is India's eternal shame.
However I can not believe ICC have caved in so easily.
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I think we're struggling now, we need another break through.
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Another key wicket for Mo.
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It's turning a lot now, which might be a bit of a worry for us.
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I think we're struggling now, we need another break through.
Looks like your post did the trick!
You next need to post "I think we're struggling now, we need Cook to get 600 not out."
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Ouch!
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Excellent from England to knock them over for 378. Ali bowled really well this morning. Now come on batters, do your job.
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Excellent from England to knock them over for 378. Ali bowled really well this morning. Now come on batters, do your job.
yep just seen the score for today 97/6....that is a really great effort from the England bowlers.
UTV
The Doc
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That was an excellent session for England with Pakistan losing 96-6 today. Ali bowled well and has become the 4th fastest English spinner to 50 wickets, Swann and Panesar got to 50 wickets quicker.
I like Ali but he's an average spinner. What he does have, and this will keep him in the side, is an uncanny knack of taking wickets.
If we bat sensibly Pakistan are there for the taking. Their batsmen get themselves in and play rash shots and gift their wickets. They had a good start yesterday and probably edged day one. A strong morning session has changed that.
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Wonderful catch to get rid of Ali. Lightning reflexes from Masood at short leg.
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Annoying to lose Mo that quick.
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Oh dear, Bell providing his usual stablity at 3. We're in trouble now.
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I know he got 60 odd in the last game, but Bell hasn't looked to have any rhythm or anything for a long time. I just wonder how long he can keep his place, especially as we have Taylor waiting in the wings.
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Good old Bell, always reliable in a crisis.
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I know he got 60 odd in the last game, but Bell hasn't looked to have any rhythm or anything for a long time. I just wonder how long he can keep his place, especially as we have Taylor waiting in the wings.
Taylor should play in the next test.
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Excellent from Cook and Root, but I feel we need a big big partnership from them.
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Excellent from Cook and Root, but I feel we need a big big partnership from them.
yes a good session from England after losing those two early wickets, and scoring at a good lick too...about 3 and a half runs an over.
UTV
The Doc
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I think we're struggling now, we need another break through.
Looks like your post did the trick!
You next need to post "I think we're struggling now, we need Cook to get 600 not out."
To be fair to Paul you can expect a "we're struggling now" every other post!
*smiley, winky thing*
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Ha yes, I do tend to side with the nervous negative!
This game is beautifully balanced at the minute though, should be a vital third day.
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The only worry with Root is his back, he seems to struggle with it quite a lot.
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The only worry with Root is his back, he seems to struggle with it quite a lot.
It is a worry, especially as he had a rest to ease the problem. Tricky things backs, as Atherton will attest.
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Root gone that's a blow.
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Oh dear. Our middle order really needs to start offering something.
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Stokes gone
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Buttler is becoming a serious problem now.
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We are in trouble now. Bairstow is fortunate to be still in as well.
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Monumental collapse in progress. Match effectively lost in an hours play
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Utterly shambolic and the game is gone.
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Woeful batting yet again. Our batting has been in decline since 2011 and if Cook and Root don't score big runs then we struggle. We seem to be like rabbits caught in headlines and a collapse only seems minutes away.
For all our failings with the bat, you have to give credit to the Pakistan bowlers who bowled beautifully.
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Well remove Root and Cook and we have
Bell- In serious decline for 3 years now
Moeen - Averages in the low 30's, not an opener, never has been
Bairstow - A wicketkeeper who also averages low
Buttler - Wicketkeeper who has lost his way with the bat
Stokes - Allrounder at best will average in the low 30's
That is a really poor batting line up for me. You need 4 rock solid batsmen, we can't afford to have all rounders opening after 25 overs of bowling and wicket keeper batsmen in at 5. Taylor needs to be in the side now and we need in a proper opener so Moeen can play lower down the order, around 6. It's just not very solid looking at all.
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Well that's set the day off well.
Can't imagine the football will make it worse...argh!
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Well that's set the day off well.
Can't imagine the football will make it worse...argh!
Well there you go an horrific day all around.
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Well that's set the day off well.
Can't imagine the football will make it worse...argh!
Well there you go an horrific day all around.
Add it to the Bears' collapse in the second half of the season, and it is all quite ghastly.
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Cheered up by watching SA smash 438 off India: three centuries, du Plessis retiring hurt after a century punctuated by cramp in both legs, the vast crowd cheering him to the rafters, also chanting de Villiers' name as he pummelled them for a ton off 60 deliveries. Amazing stuff.
Oh, and they smeared India by 214 runs.
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Fifteen overs to survive with two wickets left. Anyone watching know if there's any chance of bad light?
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No chance of it. This will be heartbreaking if we slide to defeat.
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Here comes the pain.
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There you go. Gutted, but big question marks over Bell and Buttler. Terrible third morning.
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There you go. Gutted, but big question marks over Bell and Buttler. Terrible third morning.
I'd add Bairstow and Moeen Ali (batting wise anyway to that list)
Only Cook and Root look worthy of their place in the batting line up at the moment
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Still a bit annoying that it's not one-one.
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Well done to Rashid, Broad and Wood. Could have been a great winning draw but never mind. This match has been a good advert for Test Match Cricket.
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Andrew Samson
BBC Test Match Special statistician
"England faced 49 overs after the fall of the seventh wicket, which is the second longest in Test history for the fourth innings."
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Taylor has got to play for me.
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It was disappointing to lose the test and ultimately we paid the price for an awful session on the third day. That said we got much closer to saving the test than I thought we would.
I watched a lot of the action yesterday and I thought that Cook was hampered by a groin injury so let's hope that he is fit for the next test. Bell looked to be playing himself back into form when he got out to a really good ball. Root was out to a similar one.
The application shown by Broad, Wood and in particular Rashid today was really good to see.
I don't think they will drop Bell but Bairstow will probably replace Buttler behind the stumps with Taylor coming in. My concern is with Ali as an opener we are weak at the top of the order. Ali is better at 6 or 7 and has shown that he has the temperament to play the right innings with the tail. Someone please find us an opener though!
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Buttler and Bell have got to be close to being dropped, and Ali is not an opener, but we are not far away. I tend to discount these pointless run dirges in the UAE, win the toss, win the game.
South Africa will be the proper test, looking forward to that.
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Cook's still the only batsman I have faith in. If he's there at the crease we can score big, if he gets out I don't trust any of the other batters to take us onto big totals. Including Root, talented though he is. He just lacks a bit of the aura of obdurateness that Cook has that when he's in and set you know he's in for the long haul.
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Yes but Root isn't an opener, he's the fast run scorer you need at 4 or 5 to put impetus into an innings, and he's bloody good at it. How many 50's so far in a short career?
Openers to see off the new ball and maybe anchor the innings with a daddy 100 (so Ali no good there), your number 3 to be able to hang in there if one of your openers is dismissed early (so Bell, for all his great career so far is now out). 4, 5 & 6 to move the score on to allow the wicket keeper and bowlers to wag a bit and set an intimidating score.
Simple this cricket stuff!
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Drop Buttler and give Bairstow the gloves and move him down the order
Bring in Hales to open and move Moeen to 5/6/7/8
Drop Belly and say thanks for the memories and bring in Taylor to bat @ 3
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Drop Buttler and give Bairstow the gloves and move him down the order
Bring in Hales to open and move Moeen to 5/6/7/8
Drop Belly and say thanks for the memories and bring in Taylor to bat @ 3
Pretty much sums it up for me, only other question for SA is do we keep Rashid in or have Ali as the only spinner and bring in another seamer. Harsh in a way on Rashid if we do but SA pitches tend to be more seamer friendly and more like those in England.
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If you choose to drop Bell, then to be consistent you have to drop everyone except Cook and Root, as Bell is currently third in the averages for this tour!
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He may be, but it's only been two games and his scratchy 60 in the first test did nothing to inspire me that he's our no.3 for South Africa.
Okay so Bairstow and Stokes have also failed so far in this series but both of them have time on their side and are worth persevering with, especially Stokes who I reckon is going to be a very good all-rounder.
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He may be, but it's only been two games and his scratchy 60 in the first test did nothing to inspire me that he's our no.3 for South Africa.
Okay so Bairstow and Stokes have also failed so far in this series but both of them have time on their side and are worth persevering with, especially Stokes who I reckon is going to be a very good all-rounder.
I agree. I'm not entirely convinced on Bairstow, but he has to be given time and a chance. I think Taylor in for Bell makes sense, over the last year or 18 months his form has been really poor. He's always been a class player, but his mentality has always been a bit of a problem. It's probably time to move on.
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Cook's still the only batsman I have faith in. If he's there at the crease we can score big, if he gets out I don't trust any of the other batters to take us onto big totals. Including Root, talented though he is. He just lacks a bit of the aura of obdurateness that Cook has that when he's in and set you know he's in for the long haul.
Root is officially the number 1 batsman in the world, what more do you want him to do?
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Root is an incredible bat. His only slight issue sometimes is converting those 70s, 80s and 90s into centuries. But it's a pretty good problem to have and it's not like he never gets centuries.
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If the series was played in England I think we'd beat them 3-0. The seamers are producing some decent spells and keeping them under control but as soon as the spinners come in to the equation they get milked for 4/5 an over and aren't threating them at all. It's what we all expected though, we don't have quality spinners.
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Bell played with more fluency in the 2nd innings of the last test than he has for several tests so I think they will stick with him for the time being. Taylor isn't a natural number 3 and you wouldn't move Root up the order, so IMHO Taylor misses out again.
The opening partner for Cook is more of an issue, particularly when you consider that we have to face Steyn and Morkel on fast South African pitches in a few weeks time. Ali is not a natural opener and you can guarantee they will exploit that, getting him cheaply in all tests. I'd give Hales a go at the top of the order, allowing Bairstow to keep wicket instead of Buttler and Ali coming in at 7.
I'd also consider playing 3 spinners, bringing in Patel who isn't a bad batsman instead of either Broad or Stokes.
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I'd give Hales a go at the top of the order, allowing Bairstow to keep wicket instead of Buttler and Ali coming in at 7.
I said exactly the same to my brother yesterday...
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Sounds like Moeen will stay as opener for now.
Further up the order, Moeen has not been flush with runs either, making 48 runs in four innings during the series, but it appears unlikely that Alex Hales will be brought in at this stage and will instead have to wait for South Africa in late December where England's opening merry-go-round is set to continue.
"You have to give some of these things a try and make a decision down the line about whether it has been a success or not," Bayliss said. "My philosophy has always been I would like to give somebody one too many goes rather than one too few then you find out one way or another."
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If the series was played in England I think we'd beat them 3-0. The seamers are producing some decent spells and keeping them under control but as soon as the spinners come in to the equation they get milked for 4/5 an over and aren't threating them at all. It's what we all expected though, we don't have quality spinners.
Possibly 3-0 if played in early summer. Your argument would suggest it should have been 4 seamer out there as well and I am not sure if that would have worked in taking wickets may be helped in slowing down the run rate? Fact is that they have better bowlers for the conditions.
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4 seamers wouldn't have made any difference to the match results no, we just don't have the attack to beat Pakistan over there. I have no idea what the depth like is of English spinners but surely these two aren't the best we have at the moment are they?
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I agree that Rashid and Ali are OK and possibly the best but not world class. This has been the rule in England for the last, I don't raelly know how many, 30 years? There was the ray of sunshine when Swann came along but mostly nothing to shout about.
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Good article by Athers in today's Times
Buttler’s batting has fallen short in recent times, having scored just one half-century in his past 15 innings
Mike Atherton Chief Cricket Correspondent, Dubai
Last updated at 12:01AM, October 28 2015
The limited-overs specialist has found out how tough the longest format can be
Two cricketing truths were made plain to England in Dubai. First, no matter how well you compete, one bad session, such as England suffered on the third morning when they lost seven wickets, can cost you a Test match. Second, of all the jobs that surround the England team, selection remains by far the most important.
Once selected, players are on their own. For all the talk of the influence of Mahela Jayawardena and other coaches, Test cricket is a harsh environment where rapid self-learning in sometimes alien conditions is the only way to succeed. Getting selection right in the first place is the most important task of those in and around the team with no playing responsibility.
England got themselves into a muddle initially on this tour by asking Moeen Ali to do a job that he is unsuited to do. To repeat what was written here before the series: “England will be mistaken if they employ Ali as an ersatz opener. Opening is a specialist position and either England have faith in Alex Hales, in which case he should play or they do not, in which case he should not be here in the first place. Ali’s principal role should be as a spinner and as a middle-order batsman at No 5.”
The way he bowled in the second innings of the second Test suggested that the compromise has had a detrimental effect on his batting and his bowling.
Now, though, England may feel that they have a bigger problem than Ali’s unsuitability at the top of the order and that is Jos Buttler’s form and confidence. Although he got a brute of a ball in the second innings in Dubai, his batting has fallen short in recent times, scoring just one half-century in his past 15 innings. There were signs that his confidence had started to crumble and that it was having an effect on his wicketkeeping.
Given that England have competed well, and had the measure of Pakistan for long periods, they will not want to make too many changes, indicating panic. Instead they will probably want to make one judicious change to stabilise a misfiring middle order, as they did during the Ashes when Gary Ballance was jettisoned.
Inertia can be as damaging as chopping and changing and as Trevor Bayliss admitted yesterday, leaving a player out can sometimes do him good. Jonny Bairstow has spent some time on his wicketkeeping skills, but they would have to be certain that he has done enough.
Only those closest to the dressing room know the state of Buttler’s mind. Is he shot? He is not outwardly combative, like, say, Matt Prior and is quieter and more reflective. Appearances can be deceptive, of course, either way: the quieter ones often have inner steel; those of a more outwardly confident nature can be bluffers. On the day after the match Bayliss indicated just how difficult it is even for those closest to the players to intuit such things. It was, he said, a “gut feel” decision, hinting that he was leaning towards giving Buttler a break.
From the outside it would appear that a break would do him good and there is no reason why he should not return. So far he has benefited from England’s recent determination to upgrade the importance of one-day cricket. In the past, Test players would be given more opportunity than they deserved in ODIs; now, with Buttler, that process has been reversed. England are desperate for him to succeed as they see destructive potential.
At present, though, he is discovering just how much more difficult Test cricket is than one-day cricket, where he remains hugely influential. Fundamentally this is because the longer the game, the more value is attached to the fall of a wicket, a truism that makes life especially difficult for a free-flowing batsman and wicketkeeper.
Every mistake with the gloves is magnified: Buttler has kept well in this series but an early drop in Pakistan’s second innings and a decision not to go for a catch later on were highlighted as much as the rest of his glovework. Such is the burden a wicketkeeper carries.
For Test batsmen, each visit to the crease carries an extra weight of responsibility compared with one-day or Twenty20 cricket because of how valuable a wicket is. Buttler does not have the licence to be the freewheeling thrasher he is in one-day games. As a result, it is a much harsher environment.
The change, then, is likely to bring James Taylor into the middle order (Bairstow, Ben Stokes and Buttler contributed just 92 runs between them in both innings in Dubai), where his low centre of gravity, and ability to manoeuvre the ball should help him to negotiate Pakistan’s spinners as well as if not better than some of his colleagues. Samit Patel could be considered, but given the way the pitches have yet to deteriorate as expected, and given how well Pakistan have played spin compared with seam, two spinners should probably suffice.
Any notion that Ian Bell should be demoted is premature. England have only three batsmen who are proven in Test cricket in all conditions at present and Bell is one of those, along with the captain and Joe Root. There were signs of a return to form in the second innings in Dubai, when his footwork seemed more decisive than for some time. Given the doubts over Cook’s fitness, Bell becomes even more important to the team.
The bowling, too, can remain unchanged. Any concerns about the way Pakistan eased the spinners around during the match need not detain us. After all, Ali and Adil Rashid remain the best on show for England and it was never going to be easy to control Pakistan’s batsmen having gifted a first-innings deficit of 136.
They can still cause problems given a pitch and a situation where England are ahead towards the latter stages of the match. Winning the toss would help too.
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Cook's still the only batsman I have faith in. If he's there at the crease we can score big, if he gets out I don't trust any of the other batters to take us onto big totals. Including Root, talented though he is. He just lacks a bit of the aura of obdurateness that Cook has that when he's in and set you know he's in for the long haul.
Root is officially the number 1 batsman in the world, what more do you want him to do?
I'm slightly baffled by Proposition's continued criticism of him!
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Cook's still the only batsman I have faith in. If he's there at the crease we can score big, if he gets out I don't trust any of the other batters to take us onto big totals. Including Root, talented though he is. He just lacks a bit of the aura of obdurateness that Cook has that when he's in and set you know he's in for the long haul.
Root is officially the number 1 batsman in the world, what more do you want him to do?
I'm slightly baffled by Proposition's continued criticism of him!
Indeed. You don't want your number 4 being obdurate. You need them to score quickly against tiring attacks. The top 3 should have seen off the new ball so number 4 should make hay whilst the sun shines. Of course that does assume that the top 3 have done their job which for me is behind many of our problems.
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I really like that Root has come out and said that getting good 70s and 80s is not good enough and he needs to start converting into more hundreds. It's good to see his motivation is there.
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Cook's still the only batsman I have faith in. If he's there at the crease we can score big, if he gets out I don't trust any of the other batters to take us onto big totals. Including Root, talented though he is. He just lacks a bit of the aura of obdurateness that Cook has that when he's in and set you know he's in for the long haul.
Root is officially the number 1 batsman in the world, what more do you want him to do?
Root is the most gifted batsman we have. It would be nice though if someone other than Cook could take the team to 400+ now and again. If Cook goes for under 100 we tend to struggle to post really big totals.
I am not really wanting to single out Root for criticism, although I agree my posts do make it look like I have it in for him.
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Woody rested for 3rd Test due to ongoing Ankle concerns
Plunkett to replace him?
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Woody rested for 3rd Test due to ongoing Ankle concerns
Plunkett to replace him?
Plunkett or Jordan for me. Plunkett is the better bowler but Jordan is a the best slip fielder that we have and if Cook can't field in the slips because of the split webbing he sustained in the first test then Jordan may get the nod. There is also the outside possibility that they will play a third spinner in Samit Patel.
Wood's ankle problems concern me. He plays back to back tests and has to rest his ankle. He is a wonderful bowler who reminds me a lot of Simon Jones. Jones had it all as a bowler it's unfortunate that Wood seems to be as unlucky injury-wise as Jones.
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Buttler dropped for Taylor. I think that's the right call. Taylor deserves his opportunity and Buttler needs a break and to work on his game. What I don't understand is the debate around Patel or a seamer. Patel is a county player and is a better batsman than bowler, for me he adds nothing to a spin attack with Ali and Rashid.
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Pakistan 87-2 at lunch. Lost the toss again, pitch spinning (17 spin overs before lunch on the first day!), Patel in for Wood.
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Interesting first session that and I think Cook did well getting Patel on early, if he's playing he's got to be involved.
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3 wickets is a good return at just after LT however this pitch could be interesting. Misbah and Younis are key pair.
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I see Fat Patel's little finger couldn't take his weight!
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A good afternoon session for England. We should be able to build on that after tea.
Anderson & Broad are bowling well with combined figures of 18-13-9-3
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Just switched it on. Broad has 1-1 after almost 9 overs. What's going on there? Is he just unplayable or bowling a really wide line?
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The moment I read Misbah, my brain always starts up with "Shareef don't like it ...". I cannot stop it.
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Looks like Stokes has dislocated his shoulder which is a blow.
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Patel seems to be doing just about enough, if he can back up his couple of wickets with some runs then he'll have proven a reasonable choice. Moeen has couple more as well, he might not be a pretty bowler to watch but he does get important wickets.
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Very good first session.
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Cook gone and just now Root too. Looks like Pakistan will have a first innings lead, not good seeing this pitch is a hell of a turner and we're batting last on it.
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Key phase of the game now.
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Looks like Pakistan will have a first innings lead
That really is a massively pessimistic forecast based on the current state of the game.
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Cook gone and just now Root too. Looks like Pakistan will have a first innings lead, not good seeing this pitch is a hell of a turner and we're batting last on it.
There is still an awful lot of cricket left in our 1st innings yet.
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This is a super knock from Taylor so far.
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That was a good day for England, 222-4 at stumps which means we are 12 behind. Really good innings by Taylor. Cook and Bell batted well, Yasir bowled well and the ball that got Bell stumped was a beauty.
I reckon a lead of over 100 will be a tough ask for Pakistan so more of the same tomorrow please.
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That was a good day for England, 222-4 at stumps which means we are 12 behind. Really good innings by Taylor. Cook and Bell batted well, Yasir bowled well and the ball that got Bell stumped was a beauty.
I reckon a lead of over 100 will be a tough ask for Pakistan so more of the same tomorrow please.
spot on VFL.....
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Taylor is what we've needed in the middle order for a long time.
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Taylor is what we've needed in the middle order for a long time.
Glad to see him get another chance Paul and he has taken it so far. I don't think the experiment of Ali at opener has worked and would prefer to see him further down the order where he can play with a bit more freedom.
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Bad morning so far. We desperately just need to try and eek out a lead.
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Taylor is a quality player. Shame he only added 2 overnight, but he's done enough to stay in the team for sure.
Patel and Rashid batting now, lead is 30-odd, if they start accelerating as they can we could post a lead of 100+.
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Taylor is what we've needed in the middle order for a long time.
Glad to see him get another chance Paul and he has taken it so far. I don't think the experiment of Ali at opener has worked and would prefer to see him further down the order where he can play with a bit more freedom.
We desperately need a new opening partner for Cook.
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A 70 lead is useful, but I think we should get Stokes out of there.
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Stokes looked to be in plenty of pain, particularly when he shouldered arms. That must be where instinct takes over before the pain of a damaged shoulder kicks in.
The lead is adequate, it's a pity we didn't get nearer to a 100 lead and now we really need the spinners to bowl well as a unit. They all bowled poorly in the first innings.
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Not a great session that.
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Two wickets in quick succession needed those.
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The test is beginning to drift away from us.
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Taylor is what we've needed in the middle order for a long time.
Glad to see him get another chance Paul and he has taken it so far. I don't think the experiment of Ali at opener has worked and would prefer to see him further down the order where he can play with a bit more freedom.
We desperately need a new opening partner for Cook.
I would think Hales will be the next cab off the rank in that respect.
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Yep the spinners have let us down here.
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The test is beginning to drift away from us.
Yep. Need wickets fast.
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Important wicket from Broad at the end. It's in Pakistan's favour, but a couple of quick wickets bring us back in.
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The third wicket was important but ultimately that was Pakistan's day which was disappointing from an English perspective.
146-3 lead of 74. The game is in the balance but we will need quick wickets tomorrow.
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Of the 9 sessions so far England have dominated 5 so they must cash in this marginal superiority. The lead of only 74 for 3 down is good but to win this match it must not be allowed to go over 200. 200 to 250 is anyone's match and over 250 and it's Pakistan.
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Sad to learn of Tom Graveney's death. I never saw him bat live but in the clips I've seen he looked to be a fabulous strokemaker. I remember him more for his TV work and he always offered some interesting insights into the game at a time when the BBC studio was blessed with some strong and knowledgeable broadcasters like Arlott, Benaud and Laker. He also seemed to be universally popular at New Road.
RIP Tom
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I actually England have played some pretty good cricket in this series and I think a draw would be a fair result for the series.
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This game is very nearly gone.
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Half a chance with Hafeez gone now. Need to get the rest very quickly though.
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That wicket has reignited any hope we had of winning this test, they are six down and the lead is 187. We need to take the remaining four wickets pretty quickly and certainly for a lead of less than 200.
It will be a huge ask on this pitch against decent spinners and someone like Cook will need to play with patience which will be ideal for him.
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plenty of time left in the game but I think the maximum that England want to chase is 250, hopefully they will only need 200 :)
UTV
The Doc
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That 200 has already gone, we're really struggling here. We need to get them out quick.
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yep just seen that...:(
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We have missed too many chances in this innings and all three spin bowlers have bowled pretty terribly.
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This innings has been as bad of a demonstration of spin bowling as I have seen.
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Very difficult chase now. It's really poor that the spinners were so inconsistent with their length, it was frequently either a long hop or a full toss. Not good enough at international level.
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need to be about 75/80 at the end of the day for 1 or 2 wickets and it is really is game on...
UTV
The Doc
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Moeen gone for 22...LBW and lost a review too :(
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Anyone get the feeling that might be the last ball we see Ian Bell face in Test cricket?
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Only one word for that...classic Bell.
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Only one word for that...classic Bell.
That's 2 words.
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Magic darts.
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I think considering Pakistan are an extremely difficult side to compete with in these conditions, and that we've lost 3 crucial tosses, overall we have done ok even if we lose this match.
We'd have won the 1st match if not for bad light, One session cost us in the 2nd match and we've competed well in the 3rd, let down by a poor spinners performance in their 2nd innings.
Clearly there remain issues with a couple of the batsmen. Moeen is not an opener in test cricket and hopefully Hales will get his long overdue chance in South Africa. Bell is a weird one, he's got a couple of useful scores in the series but doesn't look his usual fluent self. Bairstow I suppose needs to be given a run with the gloves now.
Spin remains a huge problem for this England team, not sure where they go in SA. Huge mention for Broad and Jimmy this series. I think they have been heroic considering the conditions couldn't possibly have been less helpful.
I think there is clearly the makings of a very good team in there.
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I think up until Pakistan's innings we've competed well in this series, but the spinners massively let us down yesterday and today. Bell as usual when the pressure is on does nothing. Moeen is clearly not an opener. It's a tough ask, but it's not impossible.
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This is not an unplayable pitch so 236 required tomorrow is well within England's reach however a huge amount of concentration will be required as Shah and co are tricky foe. All depends on where Root and Cook serve up!
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Magic darts.
Aha! I see.
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It's all down to Cook, Root and to a lesser extent Taylor tomorrow. If one of those three can get a score then we should win.
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I think up until Pakistan's innings we've competed well in this series, but the spinners massively let us down yesterday and today. Bell as usual when the pressure is on does nothing. Moeen is clearly not an opener. It's a tough ask, but it's not impossible.
Not impossible at all. I think if Cook and Root can anchor the innings tomorrow then we may well do it with a late push.
I am a big Ian Bell fan and in fact would say he is one of my favourite sportsmen, but he is now "Between the Clock and the Bed" in terms of his international career. He should have gone out on a high and on his own terms after the Ashes, but it now seems like he won't get the choice.
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Well that was a good start to the day. Wake up, switch radio on to find that we've lost 4 wickets in less than half an hour.
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Yep well now I've changed my mind we've fully deserved to lose this series. Two reasons, firstly the spinners have done an absolutely terrible job and secondly the two batting collapses we've had have just been awful. We're still doing the thing of having match losing sessions quite regularly. It is also weird that Root, brilliant player that he is, if he gets no runs in the first innings he gets nothing in the second.
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Like Villa's crapness/malaise, I'm sick to the back teeth of England batting collapses. We could have the top 6 ranked batsmen in the world and it will still happen regularly.
It's basically down to players not having the will to stand up and be counted in difficult circumstances. "He failed and he failed and so did he, so it doesn't matter if I fail too". It lets an individual off the hook if he fails as part of a collapse.
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Really surprised that in this hopeless situation Ben Stokes is being allowed to carry on batting out there. Surely this could make matters worse and harm his chances of recovery for SA tour?
Edit: OK all over now so no more damage.
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Cook batted brilliantly, Rashid and Broad helped. Pretty weak from the rest of the batsmen. They need to learn how to stick in.
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Really poor from the spinners in this series. Inexperience is one thing, not landing 3/4 balls an over like Rashid was doing yesterday is just garbage. How do you even begin to build any pressure.
The substandard county championship shows in a series like this. The top players, Cook, Root, Broad and Anderson (maybe Stokes) are quality performers despite conditions but the rest are average.
Seeing the Aussies having a field day at the Gabba doesn't help.
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At least we've competed down here, unlike the Aussies who were thrashed out of sight after 3 days in both tests.
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At least we've competed down here, unlike the Aussies who were thrashed out of sight after 3 days in both tests.
I can't take much consolation from that after a 2-0 defeat in a 3-game series. It's like when some Villa fans are saying 'well at least we haven't been thrashed this season'.
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It was disappointing to lose the series 2-0 so for what it's worth here are my opinions:
There is something fundamentally wrong with the batting which has been in collective decline since 2011. Only Cook and Root performed in this series to expectations with the rest failing. We have problems at 2 and 3. Ali is not an opener and no doubt they will select Hales for the 1st test in South Africa. Hales is not a natural opener and this next cab off the rank philosophy just isn't working. Hales struggled in the one day series against the Aussies and it will be interesting to see how he does in the one day series against Pakistan. The number 2 spot really is a poisoned chalice. Alex it's your turn so good luck against Steyn, Morkel, Philander and Rabada, who in particular is seriously quick.
We badly need someone to step up from county cricket or go back to the likes of Lyth, Carberry or Compton. I expect that they will select Bell for the South Africa series and he really is in the last chance saloon now. I don't think that they will go to South Africa with an inexperienced batting line up so your time is now Mr Bell.
The continued batting collapses suggests a deeper malaise. Earlier today someone on TMS claimed that we've suffered batting collapses in 18 out of the last 25 innings which is a startling stat. Technically the players seem to be OK. Yes you do get the odd fault creeping into a technique but the players have the talent to bat well and bat long. At the highest level in many sports, the difference between success and failure is, it is suggested, mental strength. We are like rabbits caught in headlights far too often so we need to address this problem and fast. I question Ramprakash as batting coach. He was a wonderful batsman but struggled at test level because he did not have the prerequisite mental strength. How can we expect him to coach mental strength when he struggled himself?
Anderson and Broad bowled brilliantly and were well supported by the other seamers. They kept us in this series when it looked like it was getting away from us. The spinners were a massive disappointment but you cannot blame them because they are the best we've got available.
We have a county system that places too much emphasis on T20 cricket. It's plain daft to play the bulk of 4 day Cricket in the spring when conditions do not suit spinners. In the drier months of the summer the county sides play a repeated set of limited over cricket which hampers the development of spinners. It's no co-incidence that the two best spinners of the last 10 years Swann and Panesar both learnt their trade on spin-friendly pitches at Northamptonshire. Last season Northants were docked points for a spinning pitch. We need to decide on what our prioities are. A successful test side normally means an increase in county attendances.
Come on ECB sort it out!
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It was disappointing to lose the series 2-0 so for what it's worth here are my opinions:
There is something fundamentally wrong with the batting which has been in collective decline since 2011. Only Cook and Root performed in this series to expectations with the rest failing. We have problems at 2 and 3. Ali is not an opener and no doubt they will select Hales for the 1st test in South Africa. Hales is not a natural opener and this next cab off the rank philosophy just isn't working. Hales struggled in the one day series against the Aussies and it will be interesting to see how he does in the one day series against Pakistan. The number 2 spot really is a poisoned chalice. Alex it's your turn so good luck against Steyn, Morkel, Philander and Rabada, who in particular is seriously quick.
We badly need someone to step up from county cricket or go back to the likes of Lyth, Carberry or Compton. I expect that they will select Bell for the South Africa series and he really is in the last chance saloon now. I don't think that they will go to South Africa with an inexperienced batting line up so your time is now Mr Bell.
The continued batting collapses suggests a deeper malaise. Earlier today someone on TMS claimed that we've suffered batting collapses in 18 out of the last 25 innings which is a startling stat. Technically the players seem to be OK. Yes you do get the odd fault creeping into a technique but the players have the talent to bat well and bat long. At the highest level in many sports, the difference between success and failure is, it is suggested, mental strength. We are like rabbits caught in headlights far too often so we need to address this problem and fast. I question Ramprakash as batting coach. He was a wonderful batsman but struggled at test level because he did not have the prerequisite mental strength. How can we expect him to coach mental strength when he struggled himself?
Anderson and Broad bowled brilliantly and were well supported by the other seamers. They kept us in this series when it looked like it was getting away from us. The spinners were a massive disappointment but you cannot blame them because they are the best we've got available.
We have a county system that places too much emphasis on T20 cricket. It's plain daft to play the bulk of 4 day Cricket in the spring when conditions do not suit spinners. In the drier months of the summer the county sides play a repeated set of limited over cricket which hampers the development of spinners. It's no co-incidence that the two best spinners of the last 10 years Swann and Panesar both learnt their trade on spin-friendly pitches at Northamptonshire. Last season Northants were docked points for a spinning pitch. We need to decide on what our prioities are. A successful test side normally means an increase in county attendances.
Come on ECB sort it out!
I slightly disagree here, the biggest problem is that spin (other than the top 5-6 in the world) will never be as good as swing bowling in English conditions. For that reason English spinners don't bowl enough overs and when they do bowl they're expected to slow the run rate from one end so a seamer can have a bit more freedom to do damage at the other. How often, ever, have you seen reports of 2-3 spinners bowling at both ends and destroying a team in England, at any time in the summer. What we need to do therefore is find a way to get our spinners playing in games where they can be the main threat and the seamers are support them. The simplest way would be to encourage more English players to play abroad for a few years but English sports boards (all of them) have a problem with doing that, they'd much rather keep the players local.
An alternative would be to get some of the county sides to 'tour' to places like india, SA and Aus and learn to play in different conditions so an international call up isn't the first time they experience those conditions in a competitive match. Somehow our players to get that experience, particularly our spinners for sub-continent conditions.
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Yes agree on spin being a key factor in this series. Spin bowling is a key skill in cricket and England were inadequate whilst Pakistan have at least one world class bowler and anther two way above Rashid/Ali level.
However the series was lost by poor batting and poor catching. This is the first series that I can remember between these two teams where England have dropped more (and a lot more) catches than Pakistan and that I am afraid was the crucial factor.
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It was disappointing to lose the series 2-0 so for what it's worth here are my opinions:
There is something fundamentally wrong with the batting which has been in collective decline since 2011. Only Cook and Root performed in this series to expectations with the rest failing. We have problems at 2 and 3. Ali is not an opener and no doubt they will select Hales for the 1st test in South Africa. Hales is not a natural opener and this next cab off the rank philosophy just isn't working. Hales struggled in the one day series against the Aussies and it will be interesting to see how he does in the one day series against Pakistan. The number 2 spot really is a poisoned chalice. Alex it's your turn so good luck against Steyn, Morkel, Philander and Rabada, who in particular is seriously quick.
We badly need someone to step up from county cricket or go back to the likes of Lyth, Carberry or Compton. I expect that they will select Bell for the South Africa series and he really is in the last chance saloon now. I don't think that they will go to South Africa with an inexperienced batting line up so your time is now Mr Bell.
The continued batting collapses suggests a deeper malaise. Earlier today someone on TMS claimed that we've suffered batting collapses in 18 out of the last 25 innings which is a startling stat. Technically the players seem to be OK. Yes you do get the odd fault creeping into a technique but the players have the talent to bat well and bat long. At the highest level in many sports, the difference between success and failure is, it is suggested, mental strength. We are like rabbits caught in headlights far too often so we need to address this problem and fast. I question Ramprakash as batting coach. He was a wonderful batsman but struggled at test level because he did not have the prerequisite mental strength. How can we expect him to coach mental strength when he struggled himself?
Anderson and Broad bowled brilliantly and were well supported by the other seamers. They kept us in this series when it looked like it was getting away from us. The spinners were a massive disappointment but you cannot blame them because they are the best we've got available.
We have a county system that places too much emphasis on T20 cricket. It's plain daft to play the bulk of 4 day Cricket in the spring when conditions do not suit spinners. In the drier months of the summer the county sides play a repeated set of limited over cricket which hampers the development of spinners. It's no co-incidence that the two best spinners of the last 10 years Swann and Panesar both learnt their trade on spin-friendly pitches at Northamptonshire. Last season Northants were docked points for a spinning pitch. We need to decide on what our prioities are. A successful test side normally means an increase in county attendances.
Come on ECB sort it out!
I slightly disagree here, the biggest problem is that spin (other than the top 5-6 in the world) will never be as good as swing bowling in English conditions. For that reason English spinners don't bowl enough overs and when they do bowl they're expected to slow the run rate from one end so a seamer can have a bit more freedom to do damage at the other. How often, ever, have you seen reports of 2-3 spinners bowling at both ends and destroying a team in England, at any time in the summer. What we need to do therefore is find a way to get our spinners playing in games where they can be the main threat and the seamers are support them. The simplest way would be to encourage more English players to play abroad for a few years but English sports boards (all of them) have a problem with doing that, they'd much rather keep the players local.
An alternative would be to get some of the county sides to 'tour' to places like india, SA and Aus and learn to play in different conditions so an international call up isn't the first time they experience those conditions in a competitive match. Somehow our players to get that experience, particularly our spinners for sub-continent conditions.
Undoubtedly letting our spinners spend time developing their game in spin-friendly conditions would be a huge benefit. However once they come back into the county game and find that they don't get to bowl long spells in 4 day Cricket all of the good work gets undone.
Let them play abroad but please change the first class system so that they play 4 day Cricket on decent surfaces in July and August and get some overs under their belt.
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I read an interview with a spinner, can't remember who or where (possibly here!) that said that the season starts early on green wickets so spinners don't bowl much, then the middle of the season is primarily one-dayers, so again they don't get the overs in, and by the end of the season they're all undercooked.
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I read an interview with a spinner, can't remember who or where (possibly here!) that said that the season starts early on green wickets so spinners don't bowl much, then the middle of the season is primarily one-dayers, so again they don't get the overs in, and by the end of the season they're all undercooked.
It was Ollie Rayner of Middlesex, Woofles The Wonder Dog, and it was indeed referenced on this thread (http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=53355.3255).
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Crikey, and it was only a couple of weeks ago too. It's a good job my Mum sews my name into my clothes or I'd forget who I was!
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Worth mentioning that Pietersen has scored brilliant back to back centuries in the South African T20 competition?
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Worth mentioning that Pietersen has scored brilliant back to back centuries in the South African T20 competition?
No
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T20 All Stars (really, Old Stars) playing today at Citi Field in NYC
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T20 All Stars (really, Old Stars) playing today at Citi Field in NYC
They were banging on about it at length on TMS. Vaughan was concerned that it might be a bit chilly in Noo Yoik and they would have to wear bronx hats and suchlike.
Anyway:
SRT Blasters 140/8 v Warne’s Warr
141/4 (17.2/20 ov) Warne’s Warr won by 6 wickets (with 16 balls remaining)
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That's quite the battering the Saffers took.
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T20 All Stars (really, Old Stars) playing today at Citi Field in NYC
They were banging on about it at length on TMS. Vaughan was concerned that it might be a bit chilly in Noo Yoik and they would have to wear bronx hats and suchlike.
Anyway:
SRT Blasters 140/8 v Warne’s Warr
141/4 (17.2/20 ov) Warne’s Warr won by 6 wickets (with 16 balls remaining)
I've just checked the scorecard and that is a seriously impressive line up of players.
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Cricket not helping itself again:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-pakistan-2016/content/story/938581.html
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No it doesn't, but having a three team power structure is a complete disaster. The Indians(in particular), the English and the Australians are only looking after their own interests and that kills the game.
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Poor start to the first ODI but Morgan and Taylor are bringing us back.
275 would be competitive I reckon.
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Two pretty horrendous collapses, first at the top and then in the middle order. It's going to take a monumental bowling effort. Taylor and Morgan did well, but the rest not so much.
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Woakes and Willey are making a decent fist of it.
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Yet again we've had a spell of 10 overs halfway through an innings where we've scored slowly and a cluster of wickets has fallen. It's pathetic that we can go so many overs in one day Cricket without scoring a boundary.
Between overs 31 and 40 we scored 33-4.
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Another terrible collapse.
Bell out!!
Oh...
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Has anyone been watching the T20 All Stars games being played in the American Colonies ?
The final game is in LA on Sunday
There's not many English greats appearing as shown by the name they chose in the blurb on the Dodgers website
The historic tour marks the first time these super stars have played in the U.S. Sachin and Shane will each captain a hand-picked team featuring some the best cricketers to ever play the game including Wasim Akram (Pakistan), Brian Lara (West Indies), Muttiah Muralitharan (Sri Lanka), Jonty Rhodes (South Africa) and Michael Vaughn (England), among others.
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This has been a really good start from Roy and Hales, we need to make sure we maintain the momentum and don't have cluster collapses again.
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Excellent hundred from Hales. We really need to up the run rate in these last few overs.
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should get over 300 in my opinion...should be a cracking game from now on.
UTV
The Doc
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We're at least 20-30 short of what we should have got, but hopefully what we've got is enough.
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the Pakistani's bowled well at the death so it will be tough defending that score as they can score quickly and score big.
England need early wickets to stem that run rate...
UTV
The Doc
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the Pakistani's bowled well at the death so it will be tough defending that score as they can score quickly and score big.
England need early wickets to stem that run rate...
UTV
The Doc
.and have done exactly that. Good start.
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the Pakistani's bowled well at the death so it will be tough defending that score as they can score quickly and score big.
England need early wickets to stem that run rate...
UTV
The Doc
.and have done exactly that. Good start.
agreed 10-2 :)
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Good to see Chris Woakes among the wickets. Pakistan 50 for 4 from 18 overs.
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Good to see Chris Woakes among the wickets. Pakistan 50 for 4 from 18 overs.
just got another 3 for Chris 50-5
UTV
The Doc
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Nice over from Woakes, took a wicket and conceded a single.
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It's been a good effort.
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Well deserved wicket for Rashid, who has found a good rhythm. Has his googly working well. 80/6.
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Superb bowling from the quicks, topley and willey keeping it tight and woakes benefitting to get wickets, really good as a unit. Spinners have backed them as well, can't see them making 200
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So' Warner's 253 wasn't even enough to make him top scorer in the match- or to give his side a first innings lead!
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....and I see that Taylor didn't hit one 6 in his 290- some sort of record surely?
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Mitchell Johnson announces his retirement from international cricket at the end of this Test Match.
Ends as the 4th leading wicket taker in Test Cricket for Australia behind Warne, McGrath and Lillee.
They've lost a few now over the last couple of months.
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Good performance in the field so far and it's nice to see a side other than England suffer a dramatic collapse and go 20-odd overs without hitting a boundary.
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It's been good in the field, missed stumping aside, but Pakistan have been bloody awful.
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Good effort to get them out for 208, although a slightly annoying 20 run partnership at the end.
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I really hate Pakistan's over the top appealing, they sound like a bunch of kids desperate to get their own way.
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Nice to see Buttler get some runs, he's really needed that. I liked that he took the 6 to finish it despite knowing that 2 4s would've been his 50, that attitude is good for us.
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Excellent from Taylor and Buttler. Taylor is an absolute gem of a player who has fully earned his chance.
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Excellent from Taylor and Buttler. Taylor is an absolute gem of a player who has fully earned his chance.
Taylor looks like a player who was allowed to progress properly at first class level. 12-18 months ago i thought he had a problem with concentration which saw him make silly mistakes with 20-40 to his name, he seems to have resolved that now and is pushing on and getting his 50s. He has the advantage of having very quick hands which makes the game easier but he has to be careful not to rely too much on that, which is the major change in him for me.
Praise for Woakes again for me as well, if he can keep taking important wickets I think he's definitely good enough to play test cricket, I can see him being the longer term replacement for Broad as someone who can get through a shedload of overs, if he can develop those unplayable spells that Broad brings then I'm certain he'll get his chance. Like Moeen I think he's a very intelligent player who picks things up fast so good coaching is the key.
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One of the things that pleased me about the batting performance is that a couple of the top order failed and others stepped up to score runs. That is in stark contrast to the test side.
John Westerby in today's Times hints that matchfixing may be involved:
A sport that has been so recently sullied by corruption will inevitably, at times, be watched with varying degrees of scepticism. When the venue is Sharjah and the team in question are Pakistan, a ground and a side that have been implicated in past scandals, such scepticism only tends to intensify.
In a week when Chris Cairns, a former international captain, remains on trial in London on charges, which he denies, of perjury after being accused of match-fixing, the issue is prominent in the minds of many onlookers. Michael Vaughan, the former England captain, summed up the frustration neatly yesterday. “I hate the fact we watch cricket with so much suspicion,” he tweeted. “It shouldn’t be that way.”
The ICC’s Anti-Corruption Unit had noticed no irregularity in betting patterns for the game. Sharjah, though, is still trying to shake off its troubled past. International cricket returned only in 2010 after a seven-year absence after the city’s frequent appearance in Justice Qayyum’s report into corruption.
It is these clouds that cause former players to question whether shadows are still being cast. “That’s a sensitive issue and something I’m not going to get involved in,” Eoin Morgan, the England captain, said.
I think that the suggestion is a bit harsh and at times the Pakistan bowlers caused our batsmen problems. I wonder if he makes the same suggestion every time that England suffer a similar collapse?
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I suppose it's the 3 terrible run outs that raise suspicion a bit, but you'd think if you were match fixing you'd make it less obvious.
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One of the things that pleased me about the batting performance is that a couple of the top order failed and others stepped up to score runs. That is in stark contrast to the test side.
John Westerby in today's Times hints that matchfixing may be involved:
A sport that has been so recently sullied by corruption will inevitably, at times, be watched with varying degrees of scepticism. When the venue is Sharjah and the team in question are Pakistan, a ground and a side that have been implicated in past scandals, such scepticism only tends to intensify.
In a week when Chris Cairns, a former international captain, remains on trial in London on charges, which he denies, of perjury after being accused of match-fixing, the issue is prominent in the minds of many onlookers. Michael Vaughan, the former England captain, summed up the frustration neatly yesterday. “I hate the fact we watch cricket with so much suspicion,” he tweeted. “It shouldn’t be that way.”
The ICC’s Anti-Corruption Unit had noticed no irregularity in betting patterns for the game. Sharjah, though, is still trying to shake off its troubled past. International cricket returned only in 2010 after a seven-year absence after the city’s frequent appearance in Justice Qayyum’s report into corruption.
It is these clouds that cause former players to question whether shadows are still being cast. “That’s a sensitive issue and something I’m not going to get involved in,” Eoin Morgan, the England captain, said.
I think that the suggestion is a bit harsh and at times the Pakistan bowlers caused our batsmen problems. I wonder if he makes the same suggestion every time that England suffer a similar collapse?
England haven't got a notable history of match fixing or corruption. As for the match itself, as a Bears fan I was pleased for Woakes. I hope the form shown by Hales and Taylor over the past few games will earn them both a place in the test side.
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I suppose it's the 3 terrible run outs that raise suspicion a bit, but you'd think if you were match fixing you'd make it less obvious.
like the over stepping the crease at Lords ? ;)
UTV
The Doc
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Wood and Finn out of the Saffer's tour is a hell of a blow.
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Wood and Finn out of the Saffer's tour is a hell of a blow.
The squad is announced tomorrow and it will be interesting to see who's in and who's not.
The bowling spots will be two from Jordan, Footit, Woakes or Plunkett. Ali will drop down the order and they won't need a second spinner so I expect a recall for Ballance, Lyth and possibly Compton. Bairstow will keep wicket and Rashid will be back to a squad player with Buttler. Stokes shoulder injury is, according to reports, responding well to treatment so I expect them to select him and hold him back until the later tests as he brings good balance to the side,
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Bell dropped from the test squad which, despite his poor form I find quite surprising. I expect him to retire from International cricket now and play for the Bears for a few seasons.
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Nick Compton?
I think Carberry should feel pretty unfortunate.
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Blimey that squad is quite surprising. Bell's omission probably signals the end of his career, Compton is probably there as a back up opener. Footit presents an interesting option. I think Patel being a back up spinner is pretty scary, but it makes sense to let Rashid go and play in the Big Bash if he isn't going to play in the Tests.
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I don't understand how you drop Balance for a serious technical flaw against pace bowling, and then bring him back for South Africa away just a few months later.
Bell should feel a little aggrieved, while he was hardly fluent in UAE, he was still 3rd highest scorer, and had to go in at very early first drop far more often than he should have and play a very alien blocking game, which he worked very diligently at.
Also, Cook had a far longer and worse run of form and never got dropped.
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Bell has been in poor form since the 2013 Ashes really. Cook did get a long time, but I guess that was the benefit of being captain. I also imagine it comes down to mental strength and Bell's is just a bit fragile.
I wouldn't want to see Ballance at number 3 again, I reckon either Root or Compton will go there maybe. I'd be open to seeing Taylor at 3.
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Blimey that squad is quite surprising. Bell's omission probably signals the end of his career, Compton is probably there as a back up opener. Footit presents an interesting option. I think Patel being a back up spinner is pretty scary, but it makes sense to let Rashid go and play in the Big Bash if he isn't going to play in the Tests.
Ian Bell should have retired from international cricket at the end of the Ashes series, as it was the right time and he could have gone out on a high. A cricket correspondant from one of the papers was on Talksport this morning saying he think Compton will open with Cook and that was before the squad announcement.
For me, I would go with a a top seven of:
Cook, Hales, Root, Taylor, Bairstow, Stokes, Ali
I think having Ali in there gives us the option of an extra seamer, which could well be Woakes batting at 8.
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I think you need another batsman, 6 frontline bowlers is 1 too many for me. I think 3 seamers, 1 spinner and the 5th is picked on conditions, then you can have 1-2 part timers if you want to 'waste' a few overs.
I think I'd bring Buttler back in at 6. I know he's struggled with the bat but he had a good knock in the last ODI and he's a far better keeper than Bairstow. The other option would be to bring Ballance in at 5.
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I think my batting line up would be Cook, Hales, Root, Compton, Taylor, Stokes, Buttler and Ali.
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I think my batting line up would be Cook, Hales, Root, Compton, Taylor, Stokes, Buttler and Ali.
I'd leave Root at 4 and have Compton at 3. Root has got to the top of the test rankings whilst batting at 4 so we should leave him there.
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I think dropping Bairstow would be harsh and I agree that Root should stay at 4.
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Bell has been in poor form since the 2013 Ashes really. Cook did get a long time, but I guess that was the benefit of being captain. I also imagine it comes down to mental strength and Bell's is just a bit fragile.
I wouldn't want to see Ballance at number 3 again, I reckon either Root or Compton will go there maybe. I'd be open to seeing Taylor at 3.
same here for Taylor at 3 and not just Ian's batting being so so but his catching has been poor...
I love the lad as when he was on form England we had a lovely to watch proper shot/stroke playing batsman.
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Cook, Compton, Taylor, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes, Broad, Anderson
Although if Gary Ballance has rectified his all too obvious problems I'd have him back in at 3, move Taylor to 5 and take your pick between Buttler and Bairstow.
I will need a lot of convincing that Hales is a Test match quality opener.
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Cook, Compton, Taylor, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes, Broad, Anderson
Although if Gary Ballance has rectified his all too obvious problems I'd have him back in at 3, move Taylor to 5 and take your pick between Buttler and Bairstow.
I will need a lot of convincing that Hales is a Test match quality opener.
Agree, but I think he has earned his chance. Maybe, as rumours suggest, Compton will open and Hales will bat at 3?
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I think Footit should get a chance as the third seamer, because he's different. If we have Broad, Woakes and Anderson I think it's a bit too similar. Footit is a left armer and quicker, so adds a bit of variety.
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Lovely 100 from Roy.
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Lovely 100 from Roy.
Great knock, shame he went for 102 but he's done his job superbly and we've got to be looking at 320ish from here.
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Buttler is looking back to the player he was when he broke through, this is a brilliant little cameo. The 6 and the first 2 4s in the next over were brilliant shots.
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Jos Buttler is up there in the top 1 of one day batsman to watch when on the top of his game.
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For anyone who is interested and isn't watching this please watch the highlights, Buttler is putting on a masterclass in finishing an innings, the best thing is it's not just wild swings and raw power, it's just clean hitting with the quickest hands you'll ever see and picking gaps regardless of where the ball is pitched.
If he carries on this could well be the quickest ODI century ever by an englishman.
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This is a hell of an innings from Buttler.
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God almighty what a 100 that is. 46 balls!!!
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116 from 52 in the end which doesn't tell the full story because he was about a run a ball after 20 deliveries, once Morgan went he was going at about 300%
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116 from 52 in the end which doesn't tell the full story because he was about a run a ball after 20 deliveries, once Morgan went he was going at about 300%
Jos Buttler went from 50 to 100 in 16 balls...what a great player when he gets going :)
UTV
The Doc
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This has turned into a fantastic game now with Pakistan throwing everything at trying to save the series.
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Yes good game. It doesn't matter win or lose in a game like this it's been tremendous entertainment. Wish I was in Dubai for this.
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Twenty/20's should be fun.
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One of the things that pleased me about the batting performance is that a couple of the top order failed and others stepped up to score runs. That is in stark contrast to the test side.
John Westerby in today's Times hints that matchfixing may be involved:
A sport that has been so recently sullied by corruption will inevitably, at times, be watched with varying degrees of scepticism. When the venue is Sharjah and the team in question are Pakistan, a ground and a side that have been implicated in past scandals, such scepticism only tends to intensify.
In a week when Chris Cairns, a former international captain, remains on trial in London on charges, which he denies, of perjury after being accused of match-fixing, the issue is prominent in the minds of many onlookers. Michael Vaughan, the former England captain, summed up the frustration neatly yesterday. “I hate the fact we watch cricket with so much suspicion,” he tweeted. “It shouldn’t be that way.”
The ICC’s Anti-Corruption Unit had noticed no irregularity in betting patterns for the game. Sharjah, though, is still trying to shake off its troubled past. International cricket returned only in 2010 after a seven-year absence after the city’s frequent appearance in Justice Qayyum’s report into corruption.
It is these clouds that cause former players to question whether shadows are still being cast. “That’s a sensitive issue and something I’m not going to get involved in,” Eoin Morgan, the England captain, said.
I think that the suggestion is a bit harsh and at times the Pakistan bowlers caused our batsmen problems. I wonder if he makes the same suggestion every time that England suffer a similar collapse?
The ICC anti-corruption unit are now investigating betting patterns on this game. I really hope that they find nothing amiss.
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The ECB are looking at scrapping the toss in CC Div 2 matches next year and letting the away side decide what they wish to do, I think it's a great idea and will hopefully see less "homers" produced.
Full story:
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/34917711
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That's an interesting idea.
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Great innings by Vince and Billings in the slogfest
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You have to question the Pakistan batting, some of the dismissals have been laughable. Real schoolboy stuff. It's a game that we all love and I sincerely hope that all of the dismissals are legit but the way that some of them have got does raise a few questions.
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The mandatory coin toss is to be scrapped in the County Championship next season, the England and Wales Cricket Board has confirmed.
The change is effective in both divisions and aims to encourage better pitches for four-day cricket.
An ECB statement read: "The visiting captain will be offered the opportunity of bowling first.
"If he declines, the toss will take place as normal. But if he accepts, there will be no toss."
The recommendation came from the ECB's cricket committee, which includes ECB chief executive Tom Harrison, England team director Andrew Strauss and former England coach Andy Flower.
The committee's chairman, Peter Wright, said a decision on whether to extend the trial would be taken at the end of the 2016 season.
Wright also said the decision was partly motivated about concern over the development of English spin bowlers.
"There has been concern for some years about some Championship pitches," he said.
"But it is fair to say that the plight of spin bowling in this country brought things into focus.
"Figures showing spinners bowled only 21.5% of the overs in the 2015 Championship were presented to the committee and we have come to the conclusion that the only way to bring spin bowlers more into the game is to provide better pitches for them to bowl on."
Good or bad? Divided opinion
On Wednesday, England's limited-overs captain Eoin Morgan said the move may benefit the game long-term.
"If it's to improve the standard of wickets that we play on, and potentially produce a couple of wickets where spin might be conducive to that particular ground, I think absolutely," he said.
"The benefit in county cricket might not be at the very beginning, but potentially for younger guys coming through - they'll develop different skills which will in turn give them a greater base, if they do get picked for England, to play around the world and do it successfully."
But Andrew Gale, captain of County Champions Yorkshire, described the decision as "absolute madness".
He added on social media: "If the pitches are bad, why have no points been deducted in past few seasons?"
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I agree with Andrew Gale. If home-biased pitches are being produced, and the consensus is that they are, then why haven't point been deducted by the pitch inspectors?
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Pink ball cricket looking good so far - highly visible.
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I agree with Andrew Gale. If home-biased pitches are being produced, and the consensus is that they are, then why haven't point been deducted by the pitch inspectors?
But a home-biased pitch isn't necessarily a bad pitch, just one that is suited to the home teams line-up. It could be a perfectly good pitch if the home team is a bit weak on the seam front but is confident of knocking up 400+ with the bat or it could be a greentop (still not a bad pitch) if they have a couple of good pacemen who they fancy can rip open the opposition top order.
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Pink ball cricket looking good so far - highly visible.
Not sure the Kiwi batsmen agree!
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Buttler on the charge again. I don't really like Kevin Howell's commentating on TMS.
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Buttler on the charge again. I don't really like Kevin Howell's commentating on TMS.
Surely no worse than Charlie Dagnall.
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Pink ball cricket looking good so far - highly visible.
What do they have instead of lunch and tea? Is it tea and supper?
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It's Australia so it's barbie and tinnies.
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get the cricket on lads last over
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Boom Boom Afridi nearly won that for Pakistan with 24 off 8 balls. He really blitzed Woakes in his 3rd over, taking 22 off it. Credit to Woakes for holding his nerve in the last over though, he really pulled the game back to England's advantage.
Whisper it quietly, we're starting to look pretty impressive in both forms of limited overs Cricket.
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Boom Boom Afridi nearly won that for Pakistan with 24 off 8 balls. He really blitzed Woakes in his 3rd over, taking 22 off it. Credit to Woakes for holding his nerve in the last over though, he really pulled the game back to England's advantage.
Whisper it quietly, we're starting to look pretty impressive in both forms of limited overs Cricket.
I agree about Woakes, showed a lot of character in that last over after being spanked by afridi in the previous one. I thought the 4 from it hitting the batsman had lost us the game. I've also now made myself a bit of an oracle in my 7 year old son's eyes, with about 6 overs to go I told him it was all over but Afridi could make it uncomfortable with some big hitting, he insisted we were watching a recording for about 10 minutes it was that accurate.
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Pink ball cricket looking good so far - highly visible.
What do they have instead of lunch and tea? Is it tea and supper?
Tea (20 mins), Dinner (40)
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Boom Boom Afridi nearly won that for Pakistan with 24 off 8 balls. He really blitzed Woakes in his 3rd over, taking 22 off it. Credit to Woakes for holding his nerve in the last over though, he really pulled the game back to England's advantage.
Whisper it quietly, we're starting to look pretty impressive in both forms of limited overs Cricket.
Agree and it is enjoyable to watch England in limited overs games again after years of struggling. To beat Pakistan over there in both ODI formats is certainly not to be sniffed at and it is encouraging that we seem to also be developing some strength in depth in the shorter formats of the game. Shame it has come a year too late for the World Cup.
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England bowling far too many full tosses in this 3rd T20. Just crazy! Pakistan hammering these stupid deliveries. Jordan is the worst for this.
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Superover!
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A superb over from Jordan.
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That was a brilliant over from Jordan.
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Take it all back....Brilliant from Jordan, what an over! Great from England. Win 3-0.
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Jordan is such a funny player. One minute he can look like a park player and the next he's absolutely devestating. If we can just get him to be more consistent I think there's a quality player there. Especially when you take into account his slip fielding and lower order hitting.
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Winning the last two T20s by 3 runs and in an super over shows that this team is mentally strong.
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Impressed with Woakes gets a lot of stick from non Bears fans but I think he's definitely good enough to play every limited overs game
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With England heading off to South Africa next week, what are we expecting the test team to look like? I think we have decent options through the side, but am a little concerned about number three. Different format, but I liked the look of Vince in the T20s and he could be an option in the future. From the squad that is out there, I would go with a team looking something like:
Cook
Compton / Hales
Hales / Ballance
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes / Jordan
Broad
Anderson
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I'd have Cook Hales Compton as my top 3. Otherwise agree with you.
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I'd have Cook Hales Compton as my top 3. Otherwise agree with you.
If the first warm up game is anything to go by, that might well be the top three in the first test, though Hales has had a poor game by the sounds of it.
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Hales doesn't look a test opener to me. Certainly not against the Saffer attack. Compton and Cook, please.
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Hales doesn't look a test opener to me. Certainly not against the Saffer attack. Compton and Cook, please.
Touch harsh that, he deserves a chance and he's only played short format stuff for a few months, I think we need to give him a chance to find his feet, Compton at 3 gives us someone experienced against the new ball as a backup so I'd give Hales the first 2 tests regardless and then review it and if he's not looking totally out of place I'd probably give him the rest of the series. He got over a 1000 runs in the championship last year (despite only playing 12 games) so he's earned his chance, writing him off after 1 warm-up game just isn't right.
The advantage of someone like Hales at the top is that it stops teams from being overly aggressive with the new ball, if he can hit a few boundaries and have their openers going at 5-6 an over it changes the gameplan, it's something I'd at least like to see us try. It's not like we're leaving out a world class top order batsman to give him a chance, there are question marks against Compton (2 centuries in New Zealand make his average look nearly acceptable at 32 but it's still not great), Ballance (who hasn't had much time to resolve a massive technical flaw) and Moeen (who seems certain to go back down to 8) so now is about the best time to give him a shot.
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The Ballance thing isn't that he hasn't had time to correct the flaw it's that he's said he doesn't need to correct, as his technique has worked before. That's a very worrying attitude, because I suspect his technique had never been tested against high quality fast bowling prior to last summer.
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Finn has fully staked his claim today.
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The Ballance thing isn't that he hasn't had time to correct the flaw it's that he's said he doesn't need to correct, as his technique has worked before. That's a very worrying attitude, because I suspect his technique had never been tested against high quality fast bowling prior to last summer.
Can't see Ballance playing to be honest. Think the top three will be Cook, Hales and Compton, and I think Taylor will bat at five.
Agree about Finn. I think he will start the first test along with Broad and Anderson.
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Without wishing to revisit old ground, KP is in sensational form.
I know he's a grade A in the c**t stakes but boy is he some batsman. I reckon he would be a shoe in for any other country even allowing for his personality.
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Without wishing to revisit old ground, KP is in sensational form.
I know he's a grade A in the c**t stakes but boy is he some batsman. I reckon he would be a shoe in for any other country even allowing for his personality.
The only possible argument for his inclusion at the moment would be in the T20 side with the World Cup in that format coming up. A T20 3,4,5 and 6 line up of Pietersen, Root, Morgan and Buttler would be well worth watching, but his ship has sailed in the other two formats of the game.
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Sounds like Jimmy is probably out of the first Test, that'd be a blow.
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Sounds like Jimmy is probably out of the first Test, that'd be a blow.
shame if it happens, but it will give one of the "fringe" bowlers a go
UTV
The Doc
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Sounds like Jimmy is probably out of the first Test, that'd be a blow.
shame if it happens, but it will give one of the "fringe" bowlers a go
UTV
The Doc
Woakes would bed the likely replacement I would think. Woakes, Broad and Finn likely to be the seamers supported by Stokes and Ali.
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Sounds like Jimmy is probably out of the first Test, that'd be a blow.
shame if it happens, but it will give one of the "fringe" bowlers a go
UTV
The Doc
Woakes would bed the likely replacement I would think. Woakes, Broad and Finn likely to be the seamers supported by Stokes and Ali.
I'd agree with that, I hope they don't try to force footitt in ahead of him purely because he's a left-armer and seen as 'different'.
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Woakes was the one doing bowling practice today with Footit doing catching pratice with the other "squad" players, so looks like Woakes and Finn to back up Broad.
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It's now confirmed that Woakes will replace Jimmy. Hope he has a good test.
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Best of luck, Chris.
From a selfish point of view as a Bears' member, I was not happy when he was told to speed up his delivery, or when he opened the bowling for us, both of which I believe were suggested by the England camp.
Anyway, he has proved that he is an intelligent all rounder who can adapt and think on his feet. And with the departure of Bell, we still have a Villa fan in the test side.
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Best of luck, Chris.
From a selfish point of view as a Bears' member, I was not happy when he was told to speed up his delivery, or when he opened the bowling for us, both of which I believe were suggested by the England camp.
Anyway, he has proved that he is an intelligent all rounder who can adapt and think on his feet. And with the departure of Bell, we still have a Villa fan in the test side.
Always seemed a natural opening bowler to me, considering he's a natural swing bowler with a good repeatable action. He was always going to have to speed up if he wanted to play Internationak cricket. It's not as if he's had his action ruined at Loughborough like many before him either.
He also seems to have developed into a high quality death bowler in one day games, which means he'll be a part of the England set up for a long time now.
And as you say, a Villa fan in the side is always positive
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Oh Skip, that's an annoying start.
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Always bad news when Cook out early/cheaply. Usually means collapse ahoy.
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Compton and Taylor are doing a good job.
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Good knock from Taylor, shame he couldn't go on.
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Compton certainly did a good job for himself -at the rate of one run per over.
Perhaps, like Boycott, he will be dropped for slow scoring.
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Compton certainly did a good job for himself -at the rate of one run per over.
Perhaps, like Boycott, he will be dropped for slow scoring.
That's why he was recalled wasn't it, to drop anchor and stop the collapses ?
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Comptons done a good job there, exactly what was required given the conditions, hang in there, bat long and get a score on he board. 300+ will be a good score on this wicket and outfield.
Sometimes scores alone don't tell the story, a wicket thats doing a bit, rain interuptions breaking batsmans rythem and keeping bowlers fresh and a slow outfield. 179-4 is easily worth 240-4 on another day.
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Nice little collapse from our "deep batting line-up"!
Hopefully our bowlers can find the life that Morkel has found in this pitch.
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These are vital runs for the 10th wicket, so far Broad and Finn have put on 20. If we can eke out another few runs then 300+ isn't a bad score.
The pitch is beginning to look a little slow and dead so we will need to bowl at our best.
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Pretty bad collapse, but useful last wicket partnership this.
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Pretty much a par score for when Cook doesn't make runs, but still sick of collapses.
Not out of it yet, think their batting is vulnerable and they are wasting AB having him keep.
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Great start from the bowlers but Bairstow showing again that he's just not good enough as a Test keeper. Didn't move his feet at all and was late reacting.
He'd have been better leaving it for Cook if he couldnt make it. The ball was behind him when he got the glove on it.
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Amla gone, relief for Bairstow. Terrific from Broad.
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Great bowling from Broad and Woakes. Woakes was unlucky and his spell deserved a wicket.
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I love watching Finn bowl in form.
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I like the balance of this England team. Hopefully Hales will come good and if he does Compton is a good choice at three. I think any criticism of Compton's knock is ridiculous. Taylor is perfect at 5.
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absolute beauty from Broad to get de Villiers.
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and there's the 4th, I don't think I've seen one like that before, commentators really weren't sure what had happened.
England's day now for me, getting Elgar as well this evening would make it clearly our game to lose.
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Ah Cookie you've got to review that.
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On balance we are just ahead. The Saffers are suffering from a similar batting malaise to England so a couple of wickets early tomorrow and we're in the box seat.
The pitch is drying out and starting to spin. It will be a tough one to bat on come day five.
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On balance we are just ahead. The Saffers are suffering from a similar batting malaise to England so a couple of wickets early tomorrow and we're in the box seat.
The pitch is drying out and starting to spin. It will be a tough one to bat on come day five.
The inconsistent bounce is the worry for them. They'd have wanted a big first innings lead to limit the fourth innings chase as much as possible, if it carries on deteriorating like it has today you wouldn't be confident of making anything more than 200 and even that will be tough. If we can get them for less than 350 (which should be well within us from where we are) then 250+ on the board by Tuesday evening should give us a good chance of getting a result here. If Cook had reviewed the Elgar lbw chance (I can understand why he didn't but given the time and situation I think it was worth the review) I think we'd be looking at them getting less than 200 because that would have been full on collapse at that point and even their big partnership had a huge amount of fortune to it, having watched it back I can't work out how that catch wasn't given.
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Good shot of Woakes after that dropped catch on Espncricinfo.
(http://p.imgci.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/229900/229933.jpg)
(http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-england-2015-16/engine/match/800461.html)
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Two early wickets this morning 150-6
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This stand is starting to get annoying. The New ball is due soon though so hopefully we should finish them off soon afterwards. 200-7.
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Right we need to break this partnership.
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Right we have broken the stand now let's get the last two wickets sharpish!
The lead is 92 which is a good lead and the new ball is now due.
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Steyn out of the attack injured is a huge blow for the Saffers.
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With Elgar showing great resistance this morning i thought England played with great 'Pomp and circumstance'
and Moeen Ali bowled some great ' Enigma Variations'.
With England now 22-1 with lead of 111 should be dreaming of victory....can't get Gerontius into comment anywhere!!!!
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This has been a better morning than I dared suggest, I'd expected them to get something between 250 and 350 so for me we've taken a bigger advantage than we'd ever have imagined. Now it's a case of building the lead however we can (if that means 2-2.5 an over then so be it, we have time) up to about 250 and then see where we are, I doubt they'll even chase that. The pitch is slow, has inconsistent bounce and seems to be offering a decent amount of spin and seam, 1000 runs across all 4 innings looks unlikely.
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I'm happy enough with the scoring rate as long as our batsmen don't get frustrated and feel they need to start moving the scoreboard along, as Hales seemed to do when he got himself out.
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I'm happy enough with the scoring rate as long as our batsmen don't get frustrated and feel they need to start moving the scoreboard along, as Hales seemed to do when he got himself out.
Yeah I agree, this isn't really the game for people like Hales, Ali and Stokes who do get frustrated if they're not scoring. I'd think that Compton, Root and Taylor are enough to counter that though given the comparatively low targets. Either way I won't be judging anyone for low scores on what appears to be a low scoring test.
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I'm happy enough with the scoring rate as long as our batsmen don't get frustrated and feel they need to start moving the scoreboard along, as Hales seemed to do when he got himself out.
Yeah I agree, this isn't really the game for people like Hales, Ali and Stokes who do get frustrated if they're not scoring. I'd think that Compton, Root and Taylor are enough to counter that though given the comparatively low targets. Either way I won't be judging anyone for low scores on what appears to be a low scoring test.
There's so much time left, they should just focus on nice steady accumulation. Everyone these days wants to be Australia c. 2002, biffing their way through every situation - far better at this sort of moment to take your time, and allow the game to go your way rather than force it.
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I'm happy enough with the scoring rate as long as our batsmen don't get frustrated and feel they need to start moving the scoreboard along, as Hales seemed to do when he got himself out.
Yeah I agree, this isn't really the game for people like Hales, Ali and Stokes who do get frustrated if they're not scoring. I'd think that Compton, Root and Taylor are enough to counter that though given the comparatively low targets. Either way I won't be judging anyone for low scores on what appears to be a low scoring test.
There's so much time left, they should just focus on nice steady accumulation. Everyone these days wants to be Australia c. 2002, biffing their way through every situation - far better at this sort of moment to take your time, and allow the game to go your way rather than force it.
I think some players just like to score runs and I don't think that's a modern thing, what has changed is the power which means 2s and 3s have become 4s which nudge the strike rate up from 60-70% to 80% and up. Even the accumulators (such as compton and cook) are generally around 40-50% now whereas 30% wouldn't have been uncommon in the past and again that's because when they do play shots they go to the rope a lot more often. In other games where both sides are putting 400+ in their first innings it's those fast scoring players who make the difference. World class batsmen who thrive at both (like Root and Smith) are an anomaly and rightly appear near the top of the batting charts in all formats.
Aside from that I think the other big difference is in the pitches; low scoring pitches which give the bowlers things to work with are rarer than they have been because these games don't often go to 5 days and less than 5 days isn't worth as much money.
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Don't forget the massive bats as well. More like clubs than bats, in fact.
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Don't forget the massive bats as well. More like clubs than bats, in fact.
I was coupling that in with the extra power.
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Ah gotcha. And I think improvements in physical training must have something to do with it, with players strong enough to keep wielding those massive bats for hours on end.
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Ah gotcha. And I think improvements in physical training must have something to do with it, with players strong enough to keep wielding those massive bats for hours on end.
Yeah, that's why it's difficult to seperate those into different things, stronger players means bigger bats and both together mean the ball coming off the bat faster.
Anyway, Compton gone for 49 just 2 deliveries after getting a massive lifeline playing a really poor clip off his legs, I think the pressure of getting to 50 along with the knowledge that he was lucky not to have gone got to him and he played an uncharacteristic shot after a really good innings.
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so end of day 3 with a 261 lead and wickets in hand, I'd try to bat until tea and leave 4 sessions to clean them up, should mean a 400+ lead as well.
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Excellent day and we've just got to score quick ish tomorrow and give them 4 1/2-5 sessions to bat.
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Excellent day and we've just got to score quick ish tomorrow and give them 4 1/2-5 sessions to bat.
Yep, South Africa imploded there and seem to have real problems in their camp. Hopefully we can take real advantage and wrap up a comfortable win.
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Really enjoyed the way we've gone about it so far in this Test. You forget how enjoyable sport can be when your teams doing well.
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Shame Root got out for 70 odd again. It's not really a problem at all, but just from his perspective he could do with improving his conversion rate from 50s to 100s.
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Lead of 342 heading towards lunch. I would declare just before tea (which should see us with a lead of over 400) and give the South Africans 3-4 overs to face just before the interval.
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Bairstow playing a cracking little innings
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Yep really good knock.
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I thought they'd declare when Woakes got out and the lead was over 400.
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ive turned the big bash on for last couple of overs
its been a cracker
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326 all out so the Saffers need 416.
Great knock from Bairstow.
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326 all out so the Saffers need 416.
Great knock from Bairstow.
Should be more than enough, but yet again we fail to really finish a team off when we have got them down.
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SA 93/3. We are well on top now and at last it seems we are starting an away test series with a flourish.
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Complete control I would say. Expect them to finish it half way through the second session tomorrow.
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That's a terrible missed stumping from Bairstow, hope it doesn't prove too costly.
Just to be clear I don't think it will prove costly. It's a shame after his quality knock that he makes that mistake.
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Actually on replays it was quite tricky, so terrible may have been overstating it, but he still should of got it.
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Good to get Du Plessis 5 minutes before stumps.
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Great wicket from Finn that.
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Actually on replays it was quite tricky, so terrible may have been overstating it, but he still should of got it.
This is my issue with Bairstow being picked ahead of Buttler, aS a batsman in he's in far better form but he's just not good enough to be an international keeper? The problem is you can't drop him and no one in the top 5 deserves to be dropped either. This is why Moeen at the top was worth a look, it'd have given us the option to have both without losing a bowler. Longer term I see Taylor moving up to 3, Bairstow putting down the gloves and going to 5 and Buttler back in at 6 but right now Hales and Compton are in credit.
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Good day again and what I'm hoping this will show is that if he's fit Finn has to play. I like Wood and I think he offers a lot, but for me Finn is first choice behind Broad and Anderson every time. He's just a quality wicket taking bowler. That last over tonight was fast and spiteful.
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I think the whole attack have bowled well, Stokes and Woakes haven't got much reward but they've played their part well, ditto Ali in this innings.
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I really like the look of this side - much more balanced. Still has Anderson and an on-form Buttler to come back into contention at some point too. We're looking much better in all forms just lately.
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Good day again and what I'm hoping this will show is that if he's fit Finn has to play. I like Wood and I think he offers a lot, but for me Finn is first choice behind Broad and Anderson every time. He's just a quality wicket taking bowler. That last over tonight was fast and spiteful.
Finn has all the tools to be a top bowler. If he can hit a good length on a consistent basis, his height and the extra bounce he will get from it will cause real problems on some pitches. I've always thought he was a bit too 'nice' as a fast bowler and didn't have the nasty streak that some of the top ones possessed, but he seems to be developing a bit more confidence.
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Fantastic start to the day with Mo gearing De Villiers in the first over.
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Brilliant start. We've got to win now surely?
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Miracles do happen, that's our first stumping in over 3 years.
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Well done Bairstow. Moeen really does take a lot of wickets, well done Mo.
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What a start!! I'm at work so only following feeds, but it sounds like Ali is causing their tail enders all kinds of problems.
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A wonderful mornings cricket for England, win by 241 runs.
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Fantastic win. Great to start an away series strongly for a change!
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Great all round team performance where about 7/8 of the team made signficant contributions to the win.
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They,once again, let me down ;D
Great all round team performance.
Complete control I would say. Expect them to finish it half way through the second session tomorrow.
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Great all round team performance where about 7/8 of the team made signficant contributions to the win.
Yep and it will be interesting going forward. SA are now likely to be without two of their main strike bowlers (Steyn and Philander) for the next test at least and their batting line up looks very fragile since the likes of Smith and Kallis departed.
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Are South Africa, like the Windies, another team suffering from a lack of Test talent coming through due to too much emphasis on ODIs and the baseball? It seems only us and the Aussies are finding a balance at the moment.
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They're ranked number one in the World in tests so, no.
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They're ranked number one in the World in tests so, no.
Yes but look at their team. An aging bowling attack with no back up for the fragile Steyn, a supposedly deeper batting line up that got blown away by England even without Anderson and a proper spinner, if that's the number one Test side then I do start to worry about Test cricket.
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In fairness to the 'proper spinner' bit, Moeen bowled excellently and I think most would have struggled against him bowling like that.
But there are issues with South Africa's first class system, and apparently the quota system isn't allowing the right balance for talent to flourish.
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I'm with PWA on this and I do find myself wondering what exactly Moeen needs to do before England fans take him seriously, he has a lot of work to do still (he needs to become harder to face in the sessions where it's not working for him) but he's got 61 test wickets in 20 matches and is improving quickly.
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They're ranked number one in the World in tests so, no.
Yes but look at their team. An aging bowling attack with no back up for the fragile Steyn, a supposedly deeper batting line up that got blown away by England even without Anderson and a proper spinner, if that's the number one Test side then I do start to worry about Test cricket.
You also have to look at who has retired recently from their batting line up and who they have played in tests recently. They got to number one with Smith, Kallis and few others who have now departed in the side and they probably were the best side in the world. Since July 2014, they have played test series against Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe, West Indies and Bangladesh which has helped them keep their number one spot even though some of their mainstays have moved on. They got beaten pretty badly in India and if we beat them as well, they probably will not be number one any more.
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In fairness to the 'proper spinner' bit, Moeen bowled excellently and I think most would have struggled against him bowling like that.
The problem he has is that he struggles to hold an end up and keep things tight on pitches that don't suit him. He may get there but we need someone we can rely on to give the seamers a break on good batting wickets.
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In fairness to the 'proper spinner' bit, Moeen bowled excellently and I think most would have struggled against him bowling like that.
The problem he has is that he struggles to hold an end up and keep things tight on pitches that don't suit him. He may get there but we need someone we can rely on to give the seamers a break on good batting wickets.
I agree that he needs to work on his ability to hold an end when conditions are against him, but to say SA struggled against England, who were 'without a proper spinner', is a bit harsh. He bowled as well as any spinner would have on that pitch, and when conditions are in his favour he can be very good.
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In fairness to the 'proper spinner' bit, Moeen bowled excellently and I think most would have struggled against him bowling like that.
The problem he has is that he struggles to hold an end up and keep things tight on pitches that don't suit him. He may get there but we need someone we can rely on to give the seamers a break on good batting wickets.
That will come with time and because we have him, Stokes and Broad who are all decent with the bat we can have 4 seamers so the need to rest them is less of an issue anyway. Right now I want a spinner who can be trusted to take wickets and in general Moeen is delivering on that front.
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Their India series blew their batting confidence away, and we're benefitting. That series was a bit of a joke - I thnk it was the Delhi test where the Indians only picked one seamer, the ball exploded out of a good length on the first morning, and the biggest difference between the two sides was that the SA spinners (Harmer, Elgar, Duminy and Piedt) bowled enough bad deliveries (they still took wickets mind) to allow India to post faintly decent totals and the Indian spinners were first rate.
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In fairness to the 'proper spinner' bit, Moeen bowled excellently and I think most would have struggled against him bowling like that.
The problem he has is that he struggles to hold an end up and keep things tight on pitches that don't suit him. He may get there but we need someone we can rely on to give the seamers a break on good batting wickets.
I agree that he needs to work on his ability to hold an end when conditions are against him, but to say SA struggled against England, who were 'without a proper spinner', is a bit harsh. He bowled as well as any spinner would have on that pitch, and when conditions are in his favour he can be very good.
I'm old school, I want my spinners to be able to bowl 20 overs on the...err...spin and not only take the odd wicket but also go for less than 2 an over. Any decent spinner can take wickets when the pitch is favourable, the best spinners do it when they aren't.
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In fairness to the 'proper spinner' bit, Moeen bowled excellently and I think most would have struggled against him bowling like that.
The problem he has is that he struggles to hold an end up and keep things tight on pitches that don't suit him. He may get there but we need someone we can rely on to give the seamers a break on good batting wickets.
I agree that he needs to work on his ability to hold an end when conditions are against him, but to say SA struggled against England, who were 'without a proper spinner', is a bit harsh. He bowled as well as any spinner would have on that pitch, and when conditions are in his favour he can be very good.
I'm old school, I want my spinners to be able to bowl 20 overs on the...err...spin and not only take the odd wicket but also go for less than 2 an over. Any decent spinner can take wickets when the pitch is favourable, the best spinners do it when they aren't.
but that is old school and importantly, is out of date. There are very few spinners who can do that any more because batsmen are more willing to 'go after' the spinner on a flat pitch.
For example, if you go on cricinfo and search for spinners who've played in the last 10 years (and bowled a reasonable amount of overs, part-timers skew the figures) there are 5 in the whole world with a career average under 2.5 - the average scoring rate in test cricket is now close to 4 in general, that change will be reflected in all bowlers figures, spinners will never be any different.
He's had a few bad matches (he was awful in the caribbean but wasn't really fit and shouldn't have toured) but he's also had a few very good matches which is, in my opinion, all you can really ask for at this stage. If he's still got the same flaws after next winter then it might an indication that he's never going to be the controlling bowler we want/need but whilst Anderson and Broad are around and controlling the scoring rate we can afford to let him develop so long as he is contributing.
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In fairness to the 'proper spinner' bit, Moeen bowled excellently and I think most would have struggled against him bowling like that.
The problem he has is that he struggles to hold an end up and keep things tight on pitches that don't suit him. He may get there but we need someone we can rely on to give the seamers a break on good batting wickets.
I agree that he needs to work on his ability to hold an end when conditions are against him, but to say SA struggled against England, who were 'without a proper spinner', is a bit harsh. He bowled as well as any spinner would have on that pitch, and when conditions are in his favour he can be very good.
I'm old school, I want my spinners to be able to bowl 20 overs on the...err...spin and not only take the odd wicket but also go for less than 2 an over. Any decent spinner can take wickets when the pitch is favourable, the best spinners do it when they aren't.
but that is old school and importantly, is out of date. There are very few spinners who can do that any more because batsmen are more willing to 'go after' the spinner on a flat pitch.
For example, if you go on cricinfo and search for spinners who've played in the last 10 years (and bowled a reasonable amount of overs, part-timers skew the figures) there are 5 in the whole world with a career average under 2.5 - the average scoring rate in test cricket is now close to 4 in general, that change will be reflected in all bowlers figures, spinners will never be any different.
He's had a few bad matches (he was awful in the caribbean but wasn't really fit and shouldn't have toured) but he's also had a few very good matches which is, in my opinion, all you can really ask for at this stage. If he's still got the same flaws after next winter then it might an indication that he's never going to be the controlling bowler we want/need but whilst Anderson and Broad are around and controlling the scoring rate we can afford to let him develop so long as he is contributing.
He's cemented his place in the side going forward now. His biggest and only real competitor for the test spit, Rashid, had a chance and didn't really take it. Hopefully the knowledge that he is now number one will give him the confidence to push on. Let's not forget, he is still fairly inexperienced as a front line bowler at all levels of the game nevermind internationals.
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I like Moeen as an all round cricketer as well he has a great attitude. He's taken lots of wickets, is a brilliant batsman to have coming in at 8 and is just generally a great addition to the side.
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Modern day batting means that they go after the spinner almost immediately primarily so the opposing skipper cannot rotate the seamers. That means spinners go for more runs but also have more opportunities as batsmen are also more prone to throw their wickets away.
To put this into context, statistically Nathan Lyon is Australia's most successful off spinner ever. I think Moen is doing a great job and ,like Lyon, is quite underrated.
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I think Mo is improving as a bowler, he has the misfortune to be playing in the post Warne era. Just as all keepers are now expected to be like Gilchrist, all spinners are now expected to be Warne-like.
Our conditions and the summer schedule don't favour spinners and this was debated on here during the series in the UAE. Mo is the best that we have at the moment.
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Shame we lost Cookie but solid start other than that.
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Compton really needs to learn how to score runs when he's being pinned down.
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Compton really needs to learn how to score runs when he's being pinned down.
This is better, not just defending to piedt. We really want them to panic and over bowl morkel so we need to attack the others. On this pitch we should after well over 300 today.
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Very good start at 117-1. Very jealous of those who are out in Cape Town watching it, as it looks fantastic there.
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Excellent platform.
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South African fielding has been very sloppy so far in the series. Hales and Compton were getting a bit bogged down, so Root coming to the crease might work out well.
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We're bollocksing this up with some really loose play.
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Root has thrown it away there as well. This is pretty careless.
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It's getting a little disappointing. Taylor got out to a most un-Taylor like shot and Root having just reached 50 got out to a very poor shot. Time for the lower middle order to earn their corn.
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Stokes and Bairstow have done a great job.
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That blazing last session was a decent palliative for another Villa "performance". Kudos to Stokes and Bairstow.
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Stokes and Bairstow have done a great job.
Yep, they have put us in a decent position. If we can get up to or close to 450 we'll be in a good place.
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I reckon this will be a raging Bunsen by days 4 and 5. Vital we get 400+ here now.
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Stokes in full 2020 mode third morning. Incredible innings.
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Fuck me has this been fun.
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I'm loving this. See, sport really can be fun.
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Stokes has been incredible and well supported by Bairsow. 211 runs in 33 over is fantastic.
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This is bonkers, Stokes is incredible.
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This is the sort of thing you used to see Australia in their pomp do, Gilchrist come in and take the game away from you in a couple of hours.
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Great support from Bairstow, but this is superhuman from Stokes.
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wow
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best test innigs ever?
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Getting a bit tired of these middle order collapses. Delighted for Bairstow, hopefully silenced the doubters.
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Easily good enough as a batsman but Keeping needs to improve. Im sure it will but it does need to.
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Watching the Test Match. England have suffered some humiliations in my time but now they are dishing one out. I actually feel sorry for the South African bowlers. I know exactly how they feel. I am a Villa supporter after all.
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Stunning batting from Stokes, some of his shots reminded me of Sir Viv in his prime. Good to see Bairstow get a few too.
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Choked up for Bairstow.
The whole thing has been magic viewing though.
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Choked up for Bairstow.
The whole thing has been magic viewing though.
He looked very emotional, really happy for him. It was brutal from Stokes and Bairstow, Test cricket is wonderful.
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That's much more like it. We finally post big when Cook fails, and someone else finally gets a daddy hundred.
What a pity I missed that innings from Stokes. I never seem to see these great innings, I always seemed to be at work or doing something else when Flintoff or Pietersen hit their great ones.
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Has Piers Moron asked us to imagine how good England could be with Pietersen in the side yet?
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The constant moronic chant is really getting on my nerves.
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Incredible from Stokes and wonderfully poignant from Jonny.
Still, it's a flat track against reserve bowlers to put things into perspective; swinging through the line is easy when you know the ball's doing nothing.
Showed up Compton's stodgy play, as well. Fair enough on a pudding at Durban, not good enough on this surface.
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A superb effort by both Stokes and Bristow. Well done both. Today must have been one of the most testing for Amla as SA captain so with all this pressure let's see what he does with the bat tomorrow.
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Very sad to hear about death of Matthew Hobden. Was only 22 years old with a very bright future. My condolences to his family. RIP.
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A superb effort by both Stokes and Bristow.
ONE HUNDRED AND...err FIFTY!
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Haha....F in auto correct :-[
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Incredible from Stokes and wonderfully poignant from Jonny.
Still, it's a flat track against reserve bowlers to put things into perspective; swinging through the line is easy when you know the ball's doing nothing.
Showed up Compton's stodgy play, as well. Fair enough on a pudding at Durban, not good enough on this surface.
Erm.....Morkel 2nd string?
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Compton had the same strike rate as Hales this innings.
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It looks like this is going to be a massive struggle, Amla and De-Villiers look set now.
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Both Amla and AB have been dropped now, not good enough.
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The Villa gets an unhonourable mention by Robin Jackman and HD Ackerman on the South African feed we're getting in Oz.
They mentioned the PL and Jackman mused that we were gone and said if SA can get out of this it might even give Aston Villa some hope. I know they're behind in the Test but it's no where near that bad surely!
Jackman confessed to be a Spurs fan.
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Both Amla and AB have been dropped now, not good enough.
Root dropping De Villiers yesterday could be a massive turning point.
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Yep and Amla has now gone on to 100. I can see him getting a massive score.
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Nothing happening for us at all now.
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Another chance goes down, this time its Compton off Amla. Very catchable. We've been very poor in the field and it's costing us dearly.
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Not good enough this. You can't keep dropping players of this class.
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Finally a wicket, Finn has earned that.
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Good to hear Finn's pace is back up to what it used to be. Sadly it's not going to matter in this match.
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Amla is going to get 300 here.
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It really is lousy pitch. We've not helped ourselves by dropping chances, but here we are about 10 minutes before stumps on day 3 and the aggregate score is just under 1,000 for 9 wickets. That is not a good advert for test cricket.
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It really is lousy pitch. We've not helped ourselves by dropping chances, but here we are about 10 minutes before stumps on day 3 and the aggregate score is just under 1,000 for 9 wickets. That is not a good advert for test cricket.
I agree, the drops can't be downplayed though, drops on a pitch like this are the difference between a win and a draw.
The other important thing today is that it shows the real value of having a few players who are willing and able to get the scoreboard moving, they've faced more deliveries than us but they're still 70 short of a follow on (which we'd never enforce anyway). By putting a huge score on quickly we gave ourselves a sniff of winning but forced them to go into their first innings fighting to save a draw.
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It really is lousy pitch. We've not helped ourselves by dropping chances, but here we are about 10 minutes before stumps on day 3 and the aggregate score is just under 1,000 for 9 wickets. That is not a good advert for test cricket.
I agree, the drops can't be downplayed though, drops on a pitch like this are the difference between a win and a draw.
The other important thing today is that it shows the real value of having a few players who are willing and able to get the scoreboard moving, they've faced more deliveries than us but they're still 70 short of a follow on (which we'd never enforce anyway). By putting a huge score on quickly we gave ourselves a sniff of winning but forced them to go into their first innings fighting to save a draw.
Of course you never know, but dropping De Villiers last night was a big moment. It would have put real pressure on their fragile batting line up at that point, but wasn't to be.
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We need an 'injury' and to get Jordan on at slip, because Anderson doesn't seem to be picking the ball up at the moment.
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Nothing much happening in the test match, but came across this while looking at the updates:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jan/05/indian-schoolboy-batsman-pranav-dhanawade-1000-runs-innings
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Yeah that's insane scoring.
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We need an 'injury' and to get Jordan on at slip, because Anderson doesn't seem to be picking the ball up at the moment.
In this morning's Times, Finn has said that it's a ground where seeing the ball in the field is difficult. I think that is best illustrated by the skier just now by Amla when he was on 196. The fielders just did not see it. On most other grounds that would have been safely taken:
The dropped catches that have cost England so dearly were attributed by Steven Finn to the difficulty fielders had in picking up the ball out of the backdrop of the colourful crowd.
Hashim Amla was dropped twice by England yesterday, once by James Anderson on 76 and then by Nick Compton when he had scored 120.
“It’s not easy to see the ball here,” Finn said. “The ground and the crowd are very much in line from where the ball comes from. The level of the crowd, and the colours in the crowd, you just lose it in there.
“When the ball gets a bit older and darker, it just blends in with the crowd — even the one that fell just short of me at mid-off, I didn’t pick it up until it was halfway towards me. No catch is an easy catch here, I suppose. Compo definitely struggled to pick his up. I think square of the wicket particularly, out on the boundary and for your close catchers, it’s hard to see. Hopefully, tomorrow morning, if we do get chances, we’ll see them.”
Finn was adamant that England can win. “There are still smiles on people’s faces in the dressing room, knowing we’re a long way ahead, having bowled very well,” he said. “We’ll bowl worse than that and take more wickets. But the wicket had lost some of its first-day nip, and is a bit slower.
“We haven’t let South Africa get away from us, so we’ll come back and try and hit them hard, and with a good session tomorrow morning who knows what might happen. It was a tricky day but I thought we stuck to our guns very well. We created a couple of chances, changed our fields, our pace, our lengths suitably for the wicket, trying to make something happen; I thought there were half-chances.”
Finn expressed happiness with his bowling after finishing with figures of one for 82 in 26 overs. “I feel in good rhythm,” he said. “When the captain asked me to bend my back and put a little bit extra in, I did. It was just about trying to create pressure and make something happen on that wicket. One person has been got out on it by a good delivery — every other batsman has contributed to their own downfall.
“So we have to keep trying to force mistakes and play attritional cricket, and I think we’ve done that really well so far. Today we really had to manufacture something through building pressure, through changing pace, lengths and trying to do anything to create that opening.”
It was Finn, England’s best bowler on the day, who posed the biggest threat. In an outstanding spell in the first hour, he came very close to removing AB de Villiers twice in the same over. First, he came within inches of taking a return half-chance offered by De Villiers when he got an inside edge on to his boot. The ball lobbed up tantalisingly towards Finn on his follow-through, and although he tried to get his hands under the ball, he just failed to. Then, De Villiers, surprised by extra bounce, could not keep a pull shot under control and was almost caught at square leg.
Even at the end of a long and arduous day in the field, Finn was running in hard. Rousing himself for one last spell, despite operating into a breeze, he extracted extra bounce from back of a length in what was a quick over. It required all of Amla’s skill to survive, dropping his wrists to avoid being gloved.
“Hash is a world-class player,” Finn said. “To see him book himself in on that wicket, it’s hard to bowl to him sometimes. We did trouble him occasionally, and he didn’t look comfortable 100 per cent of the time, and that’s testament to the way we bowled.”
Faf du Plessis paid tribute to “a real good wicket” and accepted that confidence among the batsmen had been low after the 3-0 trouncing in India where South Africa failed to score heavily. “We needed a day like this, and I hope this is the turning point for everyone to get their confidence back. We plan to bat as long as possible.”
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Amla gone finally.
Hats off to him too, a double century as a Skipper under pressure is a great response but he was dropped 3 times. And all of them you'd expect to be taken.
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Amla is a really admirable character, well done to him. Du Plessis gone as well. There's the smallest glimmer of hope.
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Amla is a really admirable character, well done to him. Du Plessis gone as well. There's the smallest glimmer of hope.
Yep. If we can get them all out quickly with a lead close to 100, then we might have a slim chance. If we could build a lead of over 300 by the end of the first session tomorrow, then who knows?
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Things are happening quickly now. Yes the wickets have gone, but South Africa are scoring fast and getting rid of that lead as well.
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South Africa are absolutely flying here.
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Too many dropped catches to win on this pitch, you have to take the chances.
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South Africa are absolutely flying here.
Too late though, there's pretty much no chance of a positive result in this game now because they killed 5-6 sessions trying to force the draw. Not faulting them for it (the pitch is the problem) but suddenly starting to score after pottering along through 165 overs does nothing to make a draw any less likely.
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No that's true, but psychologically it might be a bit damaging. The only team with a chance of a positive result now is South Africa and that's quite a swing.
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Our catching has been absolutely diabolical in this game.
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10 drops this innings, absolutely terrible.
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Amla is a really admirable character, well done to him. Du Plessis gone as well. There's the smallest glimmer of hope.
Yep. If we can get them all out quickly with a lead close to 100, then we might have a slim chance. If we could build a lead of over 300 by the end of the first session tomorrow, then who knows?
So much for the above. Can't see anything else, but a draw now. Think the ICC need to make some enquiries about the pitch.
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Incredible to think that is the first test century by a black South African. Well done to him, that is quite a landmark.
They've declared and the respect shown by our players to Bavuma was good to see.
There's a tough few overs in the middle for England now.
End of the 1st innings and the match aggregate is 1,256-13 off 336 overs.
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Amla is a really admirable character, well done to him. Du Plessis gone as well. There's the smallest glimmer of hope.
Yep. If we can get them all out quickly with a lead close to 100, then we might have a slim chance. If we could build a lead of over 300 by the end of the first session tomorrow, then who knows?
So much for the above. Can't see anything else, but a draw now. Think the ICC need to make some enquiries about the pitch.
In fairness if England had held their catches South Africa probably would have got half of their total.
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Completely different conditions today and the ball is moving. We're two down already, this could be a really difficult day.
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Pretty poor from the openers to be honest.
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That was a good ball that bowled Root.
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Hmmm not a good session at all. The top order has folded.
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Compton gone, this is getting extremely dicey.
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This is starting to feel like Adelaide revisited.
Id fancy SA to chase anything around 180-200 in 30 overs.
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And now Taylor gone. We are in real trouble here.
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This is a huge partnership for us, we need Bairstow and Ali to stick around and keep the scoreboard ticking over.
Abject batting so far.
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This is a pretty pathetic batting display.
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I thought it would meander to a boring draw on the final day, we need to bat for plenty of overs yet as I am getting twitchy.
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Hoho, which other team in world cricket would threaten to throw away a game where they declared on 600+? What is it with England?
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Should have continued to bat the other day. We scored so quickly that we have almost created this situation by doing so well!
Bairstow gone stumped now? What the hell are they playing at.
One team you can be certain will throw it away is England.
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Given not out. Don't waste the chance Bairstow!
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Good to get to tea without losing another wicket.
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Unfortunately, any psychological damage done to their bowlers during the first innings has been undone, not to mention their batting confidence and form being restored after the failures in the first test. Hard to call the series from here.
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Looks like we've got away with it, but I hope the batsmen look at how they approached today. It looked far too complacent.
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Amla has resigned and will be replaced by De Villiers for the rest of the series.
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didn't watch any of today but how different were the conditions? It ended early for bad light/rain and is a day 5 pitch; I'm not excusing the batsmen but is there an element of the bowlers eventually getting something from the pitch involved in this?
I have far bigger concerns about the fielding in the last 3 days than I do in a slightly below par score on a 5th day pitch, the dropped catches got us into the position where we could lose, not a few loose shots today.
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It was cloudy and there was assistance for the bowlers, but the batting was really poor.
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In addition to the cloud, the wind had "flipped" from the prevailing South Easterly to a North Westerly, referred to as a "Pringle" by the local crickerati.
Vaughan and his Saffer co-commentator had an extended discussion on TSM about why this should produce more favourable bowling conditions, but both were convinced that it did. Vaughan said a similar phenomenon occurs at Scarborough.
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I have far bigger concerns about the fielding in the last 3 days than I do in a slightly below par score on a 5th day pitch, the dropped catches got us into the position where we could lose, not a few loose shots today.
The fielding was disappointing but may have been a feature unique to this ground. Finn said that seeing the ball in the field was difficult and Vaughan said the same on TMS today.
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Unfortunately, any psychological damage done to their bowlers during the first innings has been undone, not to mention their batting confidence and form being restored after the failures in the first test. Hard to call the series from here.
Yeah think SA will be going into the next test with lifted spirits, particularly if Steyn and Philander are back. Might not have made any difference, but I just can't help thinking Root dropping De Villiers on day 2 was the turning point in the match.
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Unfortunately, any psychological damage done to their bowlers during the first innings has been undone, not to mention their batting confidence and form being restored after the failures in the first test. Hard to call the series from here.
Yeah think SA will be going into the next test with lifted spirits, particularly if Steyn and Philander are back. Might not have made any difference, but I just can't help thinking Root dropping De Villiers on day 2 was the turning point in the match.
Philander is definitely out & Steyn is rated 50/50 which is either a smokescreen to hinder our preparation or he is struggling with fitness.
Hopefully Jimmy will be better in the next test, I thought he looked out of sorts in the last test and was probably short of fitness.
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Jimmy was definitely short of bowling in this Test, so hopefully all that work will have helped him.
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Lot of anger over here with the Windies not offering to make a spectacle of today and accepting a declaration of 0-0 to set up an Aussie chase.
Don't blush baby Smith!
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In addition to the cloud, the wind had "flipped" from the prevailing South Easterly to a North Westerly, referred to as a "Pringle" by the local crickerati.
Vaughan and his Saffer co-commentator had an extended discussion on TSM about why this should produce more favourable bowling conditions, but both were convinced that it did. Vaughan said a similar phenomenon occurs at Scarborough.
See also the Fremantle Doctor in Perth
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Good to see that dropping catches no longer justifies players being left out of the side -at least now that Bell's gone.
How times change, eh?
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Good to see that dropping catches no longer justifies players being left out of the side -at least now that Bell's gone.
How times change, eh?
Well not really Bell's batting form had been poor overall since the 2013 Ashes. His dropping of catching just added to it. England have actually been very good in the field for the most part lately, they just had a horrible game at Cape Town.
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Good to see that dropping catches no longer justifies players being left out of the side -at least now that Bell's gone.
How times change, eh?
Well not really Bell's batting form had been poor overall since the 2013 Ashes. His dropping of catching just added to it. England have actually been very good in the field for the most part lately, they just had a horrible game at Cape Town.
I agree, I'm a massive fan of Bell and i actually think his form was fine, in that he always looked in good nick, it was, in my opinion, a mental issue which led to his poor average, and the catches are another sign of that, I just think some of that 'edge' you need to be a top international athlete left him, I suspect he'll coast along with warks for 2-3 seasons getting decent scores but nothing spectacular before retiring. Whatever happens he should be considered as having been a genuine world class batsman who played a massive part in a superb run of Ashes victories who just reached the natural end of his England career, maybe a season or 2 faster than most expected.
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I'd agree with that, he had a successful career but I feel at international level it fell a bit short of what he could have achieved. That's almost a compliment, as he had a very good record. But he's finished as an international.
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Fair points.
My bitterness is down to the fact that the London-based media were constantly trying to write Bell out of the side from when he first got in so that Key/Ramprakash could take his place.
The biggest laugh of all was after the Headingley defeat in 2009 when two hacks on TMS agreed that not only should Bell be dropped from the team but that Trott should be dropped from the squad as both were 'obviously not good enough'.
In the next, decisive, Test at the Oval, Bell top-scored in the first innings and Trott got a ton in the second.
Oh, to be such an 'expert'!!
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I think that was Trott's debut wasn't it? Ramprakash was being pushed forward simply because he was London based and had scored runs in the County Championship. As you say dc, Trott then went on to score a ton.
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Presumably Bell was a bit tired out and considering retirement. I hope a reduced schedule means he can freshen up and come back motivated and that maybe he still has something to offer. We've got some good options at the moment but you can never have enough competition for places.
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Presumably Bell was a bit tired out and considering retirement. I hope a reduced schedule means he can freshen up and come back motivated and that maybe he still has something to offer. We've got some good options at the moment but you can never have enough competition for places.
He hinted at retirement after the summer's Ashes victory so maybe his heart wasn't in it anymore. His record compares well with his contemporaries and with Botham he is the only English player to have won 5 Ashes series.
In other news, Steyn is out of the third test.
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Not been a great start from the bowlers.
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Too short. It's swinging (a bit) so bowl full.
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Our attack has looked very ordinary so far.
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Uncanny flashback to the Edgbaston Test in the 2005 Ashes there.
England struggling to take a wicket and the batsmen looking comfortable so bring on the all-rounder with the dodgy shoulder (see Stokes grab his shoulder after his first ball?) who had scored a few in his last innings and, bam, there's the wicket!
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The story with the wicket keeper is bizarre, I can't recall hearing of anything like that before in test cricket. Shame we didn't win the toss just to see what they'd have done.
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The story with the wicket keeper is bizarre, I can't recall hearing of anything like that before in test cricket. Shame we didn't win the toss just to see what they'd have done.
De Villiers would have kept and England had agreed they could use a substitute until the keeper arrives
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Pretty poor morning from Jimmy and Broad in particular. Hopefully they'll step up in the next session.
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The story with the wicket keeper is bizarre, I can't recall hearing of anything like that before in test cricket. Shame we didn't win the toss just to see what they'd have done.
De Villiers would have kept and England had agreed they could use a substitute until the keeper arrives
I assume so and I guess TMS/Sky covered this already this morning, I just find it fascinating that they hadn't asked the guy to travel when de kock hurt himself rather than knocking him out of bed to travel down this morning.
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Had no luck so far. On another day could easily have them 3 or 4 down.
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another gone !!
Amla for 40....great reward for Finn :)
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Great ball from Moeen and then a great one from Finn. Need to capitalise on this now.
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South Africa are on top at tea I'd say, with AB looking dangerous. But if we can nip out another couple of quick wickets we'll be in the driving seat.
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Great from Stokes to get rid of AB. We need to get one of these fairly quickly now, I reckon 300 might be a good score on this pitch.
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Good one Finny!
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Bavuma's wicket is key now
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I hope they've learned that bowling short to Bavuma is not a great idea.
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Bavuma run out, 212-6.
If we can get another couple before stumps then it's our day.
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SA are winning the end of this day here, we just don't appear to be able to deal with Morris.
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Our day I'd say, but they won the last half hour. We need to knock them over quick in the morning.
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Very odd decision to start with Anderson this morning, Finn should have been bowling. At least Morris is gone now, well done Broady.
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Shows what I know, Jimmy strikes! I do think Finn is starting to put himself forward as the frontline of our attack though.
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Finn is the strike bowler, we should use him like Australia use Johnson, short spells where he gives 100% for 3-4 overs. I'm ok with Broad and Jimmy being the 'go to' seamers when we have Finn and Stokes in the team who can both be much more aggressive.
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Finn should be on now.
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They're putting on valuable runs now. Finn has bowled brilliantly this tour and should be bowling at numbers 10 and 11.
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Anderson taken out of the attack for running on the pitch. You don't see that very often. He seems really out of sorts on this tour, maybe his test career is beginning to come to a close?
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Anderson taken out of the attack for running on the pitch. You don't see that very often. He seems really out of sorts on this tour, maybe his test career is beginning to come to a close?
I wouldn't say that yet, he just doesn't look remotely match fit. He should have been eased back in rather than straight back into the team. See Stokes has come on and got the wicket, probably could have saved 20 runs if we'd brought Stokes or Finn on earlier. Anyhow, come on England bat well.
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Anderson taken out of the attack for running on the pitch. You don't see that very often. He seems really out of sorts on this tour, maybe his test career is beginning to come to a close?
I wouldn't say that yet, he just doesn't look remotely match fit. He should have been eased back in rather than straight back into the team. See Stokes has come on and got the wicket, probably could have saved 20 runs if we'd brought Stokes or Finn on earlier. Anyhow, come on England bat well.
He seems to be taking longer to come back from injuries which is a sure sign that age is catching up with him. He's always been a rhythm bowler who needs to play regularly to be at his absolute best.
This will be an interesting hour before lunch for England. We need to bat well and runs from Cook would be good. I think the Saffers got a good total on that pitch.
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Cook just can't resist a nibble down the leg side can he?
In a spot of bother here.
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They're bowling much better than we did, that's for sure.
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Good to see the opening partnership is as solid as ever. Hales is obviously having a poor time, but Cook is having a really poor tour. Not good enough.
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Shows how poorly we bowled, in better bowling conditions, in the first session yesterday. Given his form at the moment I would strongly consider giving Finn the new ball first up rather than Anderson in the second innings.
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In fairness the pitch has changed, it's drier and quicker now than at any time yesterday.
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It's a brilliant counter attack from Root and Stokes, but they need to keep going.
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Picked the right time to tune in, this is marvellous stuff.
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Oops. Commentator's curse. Will keep my gob shut.
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I was just in the middle of posting about how easy he was making it look when he got out so I'll let DaveD take the hit on being the cause of that one.
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Brilliant effort though, and brought us back into the game.
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Brilliant effort though, and brought us back into the game.
This is the value of having a middle order that likes to score runs, Stokes is the one in form right now but Taylor, Bairstow and Ali all bring similar intent to the crease, if 1 of them gets going and has a bit of support at the other end they can quickly change an innings. If Hales can get into things and bring similar intent at the top then I can see us becoming a side that scores at least 300-400 almost regardless of the conditions in the first innings (much like Australia used to be) and that consistency, as a team, gives you a lot of confidence with the ball and lets you be much more aggressive.
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Excellent 100 Root, now go on.
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Off for bad light.
It's a good recovery from 40-odd for 3 and shows the emergence of Root and Stokes as senior players.
I reckon we will need a lead of 150 on that pitch to be in any chance of winning. Batting 4th on that pitch will be difficult.
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be nice to get a lead of anything near a 100 and then we can rout them out for 150 all out and then a gentle knock to win the series :)
UTV
The Doc
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I think SA may rue their lack of spinner later on.
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Superb stuff from Root, that's exactly what sets the top, top batsmen apart: the ability to almost single handedly change the tide of a match.
Too soon to talk of leads though. This is England, 5 down and 80 odd behind. Collapse and deficit of 60 just as likely as a lead!
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Brilliant Test Match so far, a pitch that you can bat on if you can get yourself in (or in the case of Stokes - fuck it, go for it) but which also has something for the bowlers. That and two teams who still seem to care about the long game.
Both teams could have been out for less than 200 but alternatively have found a way to get competitive totals, give me this over T20 any day.
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Brilliant Test Match so far, a pitch that you can bat on if you can get yourself in (or in the case of Stokes - fuck it, go for it) but which also has something for the bowlers. That and two teams who still seem to care about the long game.
Both teams could have been out for less than 200 but alternatively have found a way to get competitive totals, give me this over T20 any day.
Stokes doesn't need to get himself in right now, that's the joy of it. As they covered with Rob Key the main part of that is his trigger movements, rather than moving his feet he stands still and 'triggers' with his hands instead, it means that when he's seeing the ball well (i.e. in form) he doesn't need to do anything to adjust to the pace, he can just react because he's taken a big part of the timing out of it by his natural stance at the crease. You still have to watch what the pitch is doing but he's getting that in 2-3 balls and then the bowler needs to do something special to catch him out. It's incredibly impressive to watch but I still think we need to be patient because as good as he's looked in the last couple of tests it's only been 3 innings of genuine brilliance, how he keeps this going is the key for him, last time he showed flashes it got to his head and he fell apart for a couple of years so he should have learned from that.
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I think he has learned, and you cannot take that exuberance out of his game because without it he's not the same player. He also seems to have added some zip to his bowling, he's a genuine all rounder now, the likes of which we haven't had since Flintoff.
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Shame Root got out so quickly this morning, he seems to struggle coming back after batting through a day. This match is really in the balance.
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Basically level then. Broad and Anderson need to bowl a lot better.
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Silly shot from Bairstow - no real need for that. Could've done with another 30 runs.
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Basically level then. Broad and Anderson need to bowl a lot better.
The twenty minutes or so before lunch are going to be testing for their batsmen if we get the ball in the right places.
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Silly shot from Bairstow - no real need for that. Could've done with another 30 runs.
I don't think you can blame Bairstow for trying to move the scoreboard along, especially when he's batting with the number 11.
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Pretty poor over from Anderson.
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Silly shot from Bairstow - no real need for that. Could've done with another 30 runs.
I don't think you can blame Bairstow for trying to move the scoreboard along, especially when he's batting with the number 11.
Exactly, not sure what else he was supposed to do.
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Not good enough from opening bowlers again.
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Important wicket for Broad, need to clatter a few.
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Broad's in a rhythm now.
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The test will be decided today that's for sure.
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Looks like Broad is having one of his spells, couldn't have timed it better
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That is a huge wicket. SA are effectively 20-3 now. Great spell of bowling from Broad.
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I thought watching the end of our innings this morning there's a low score in this pitch whilst it stays cloudy and with de Villiers now gone they could be 100 all out here.
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I thought watching the end of our innings this morning there's a low score in this pitch whilst it stays cloudy and with de Villiers now gone they could be 100 all out here.
Amla is the key wicket, get him soon and i agree this could be a very short innings.
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Amla Gone ...........Come on England
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I thought watching the end of our innings this morning there's a low score in this pitch whilst it stays cloudy and with de Villiers now gone they could be 100 all out here.
Amla is the key wicket, get him soon and i agree this could be a very short innings.
Screw Broad and Taylor, I'm taking the credit for that one!
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I thought watching the end of our innings this morning there's a low score in this pitch whilst it stays cloudy and with de Villiers now gone they could be 100 all out here.
Amla is the key wicket, get him soon and i agree this could be a very short innings.
Now the key is keeping the pressure on as the ball gets older. The pattern from the first two innings has been early wickets then consolidation, we need to make sure that is not repeated.
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Not good enough from Broad!
Are there really people who prefer the hit and run nonsense to Test cricket?
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Bloody hell, Broad sure is able to pick the right spots when it comes to unplayable spells, isn't he? It's like he has a "run through batting order" card that's only available every few Tests, but he gets complete discretion as to when to play it.
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Oh my Stuart Broad.
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Important wicket for Broad, need to clatter a few.
Could you provide some similar advice for Villa for later on ,Paul?
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Ha ha yeah we'll see!
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I wouldn't fancy facing Finn after getting a right shellacking from Broad.
More importantly, I don't think South Africa fancy it either.
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Shows what I know - might not make 50 !
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Stokes has deserved that.
Broad will get the headlines, but Stokes has played his part, not giving the batsmen anything and building pressure.
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We've got a hell of a team coming through here.
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Amazed Root didn't get man of the match, when you consider how tricky batting was.
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I liked the look of the side before the first test and it's lived up to that in a very big way. I'm looking forward to see how we do in Australia, though a lot can change in that time.
Does anyone who follows the local stuff have any tips for who's not currently in the set-up but think has a very big future?
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I liked the look of the side before the first test and it's lived up to that in a very big way. I'm looking forward to see how we do in Australia, though a lot can change in that time.
Does anyone who follows the local stuff have any tips for who's not currently in the set-up but think has a very big future?
Not sure from the Bears, but I think Alex Lees at Yorkshire has a big future and I think Vince has quality and the right mentality.
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Basically level then. Broad and Anderson need to bowl a lot better.
Only needed one of them!
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I liked the look of the side before the first test and it's lived up to that in a very big way. I'm looking forward to see how we do in Australia, though a lot can change in that time.
Does anyone who follows the local stuff have any tips for who's not currently in the set-up but think has a very big future?
Not sure from the Bears, but I think Alex Lees at Yorkshire has a big future and I think Vince has quality and the right mentality.
The Overton brothers and the Curran brothers, have been making waves in the domestic game recently. Sam Curran in particular is only 17 and took 22 wickets at 26 in the Championship last year.
Mason Crane is looking like a very good spinner at 19. And from Warwickshire Sam Hain is probably the next England player.
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Absolutely nobody from Yorkshire. Don't want our chances next season buggering up any further.
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*cough*
Matthew Fisher, 18, fast bowler. From Eboracum.
*cough*
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In less than a year since the World Cup ended, we've begun to make progress in all forms of the game.
The test side is looking settled and has a nucleus of young players that we can build a side around for a few years to come. Broad is now unquestionably the leader of the attack, he seems to have moved up a few gears since Ottis Gibson returned as bowling coach. Before Broad's performance with ball yesterday, Finn was our best bowler on the tour so, subject to fitness, I'd like to see Broad and Finn take the new ball in upcoming tests with Jimmy as first change.
Bairstow is getting better as a keeper with each test. The position of opener all tide Cook is a worry but we are coping for now. All in all we are looking strong in several areas.
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I liked the look of the side before the first test and it's lived up to that in a very big way. I'm looking forward to see how we do in Australia, though a lot can change in that time.
Does anyone who follows the local stuff have any tips for who's not currently in the set-up but think has a very big future?
Not sure from the Bears, but I think Alex Lees at Yorkshire has a big future and I think Vince has quality and the right mentality.
Sam Hain looks the best bet of the young Bears players. Becomes English qualified this year (I think), and at the age of just 20 averages nearly fifty in the two years he has played county cricket. If his progress continues that way, I think he'll be on the England scene pretty soon.
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In less than a year since the World Cup ended, we've begun to make progress in all forms of the game.
The test side is looking settled and has a nucleus of young players that we can build a side around for a few years to come. Broad is now unquestionably the leader of the attack, he seems to have moved up a few gears since Ottis Gibson returned as bowling coach. Before Broad's performance with ball yesterday, Finn was our best bowler on the tour so, subject to fitness, I'd like to see Broad and Finn take the new ball in upcoming tests with Jimmy as first change.
Bairstow is getting better as a keeper with each test. The position of opener all tide Cook is a worry but we are coping for now. All in all we are looking strong in several areas.
Agree with this. A very good series win, although it does have to be noted that South Africa were depleted in the bowling department. Some excellent performances over the series so far, but the only real question mark is Hales at opener. Someone in an earlier post mentioned Vince and if Hales continues to struggle, I would consider shifting Compton to opener and bringing Vince in at three.
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Well done Stuart Broad on attaining world number one position.
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*cough*
Matthew Fisher, 18, fast bowler. From Eboracum.
*cough*
He's rubbish, so is that Jack Leaning. Best leave them at their county, whoever that may be.
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Broad has now produced two of the most outstanding spells of bowling I've seen since the heyday of the Windies pacemen, his 8 for fuck all in the Ashes in the summer and now this burst. 5-1 from 31 balls at one point, absolutely phenomenal.
Then you saw Stokes swinging the ball around corners, Finn looking back to his best, Root making batting look easy on any surface, I am liking this team a lot.
Still a few issues, Cook isn't firing and we need a better opener than Hales unless he can find some form, not convinced by Taylor yet and we will still find ourselves having problems on flat pitches if Moeen is our only spin option.
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Taylor is a very good player and deserves plenty of time to make his mark. Cook isn't having a great series, but he did score a double hundred in October/November so I wouldn't worry too much about him.
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Taylor is a very good player and deserves plenty of time to make his mark. Cook isn't having a great series, but he did score a double hundred in October/November so I wouldn't worry too much about him.
I think his captaincy is getting better too.
Bayliss and Farbrace seem to have introduced a relaxed culture that encourages positive play and that is leading to on-field success.
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I don't think Compton fits so for me I'd be looking at a replacement for him first. I know Hales hasn't had a great series but I think we should stick with him for a while because the talent is there he just needs to work out how to make that work in tests. I think I'd like to see Taylor at 3 and then I'd shift Bairstow to 5, Ali to 7 and then look at another spinner, I'd probably give Kerrigan another shot.
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No matter what you think of Chris Gayle the person, Chris Gayle the cricketer is a superb entertainer.
He is currently 26 not out off 6 balls.
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50 off 12 balls, joint fastest ever.
Sublime batting.
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I don't think Compton fits so for me I'd be looking at a replacement for him first. I know Hales hasn't had a great series but I think we should stick with him for a while because the talent is there he just needs to work out how to make that work in tests. I think I'd like to see Taylor at 3 and then I'd shift Bairstow to 5, Ali to 7 and then look at another spinner, I'd probably give Kerrigan another shot.
Ballance will get another go too. If he's managed to iron out his technical weaknesses he is a formidable batsman.
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I don't think Compton fits so for me I'd be looking at a replacement for him first. I know Hales hasn't had a great series but I think we should stick with him for a while because the talent is there he just needs to work out how to make that work in tests. I think I'd like to see Taylor at 3 and then I'd shift Bairstow to 5, Ali to 7 and then look at another spinner, I'd probably give Kerrigan another shot.
Not sure we will need another spinner at home this summer, but we go to India next winter so will definitely need one there.
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I don't think Compton fits so for me I'd be looking at a replacement for him first. I know Hales hasn't had a great series but I think we should stick with him for a while because the talent is there he just needs to work out how to make that work in tests. I think I'd like to see Taylor at 3 and then I'd shift Bairstow to 5, Ali to 7 and then look at another spinner, I'd probably give Kerrigan another shot.
Ballance will get another go too. If he's managed to iron out his technical weaknesses he is a formidable batsman.
He categorically said he didn't have an issue to fix, which I think is the main part of the problem.
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Shame Finn is injured again, I'd love to see him have a run of being fit.
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I don't think Compton fits so for me I'd be looking at a replacement for him first. I know Hales hasn't had a great series but I think we should stick with him for a while because the talent is there he just needs to work out how to make that work in tests. I think I'd like to see Taylor at 3 and then I'd shift Bairstow to 5, Ali to 7 and then look at another spinner, I'd probably give Kerrigan another shot.
Not sure we will need another spinner at home this summer, but we go to India next winter so will definitely need one there.
For India I think they'll go with Ali and Rashid as they did in the UAE,
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I don't think Compton fits so for me I'd be looking at a replacement for him first. I know Hales hasn't had a great series but I think we should stick with him for a while because the talent is there he just needs to work out how to make that work in tests. I think I'd like to see Taylor at 3 and then I'd shift Bairstow to 5, Ali to 7 and then look at another spinner, I'd probably give Kerrigan another shot.
Not sure we will need another spinner at home this summer, but we go to India next winter so will definitely need one there.
I agree but we really don't want to be taking a specialist spinner to India who has barely bowled in international cricket so whether you pick Rashid or Kerrigan or someone else they need to play a couple of games in the summer, with the other options we have and the strength of the middle order we can probably absorb a poor performance from someone who is learning what is required (much like we are with Hales right now).
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I don't think Compton fits so for me I'd be looking at a replacement for him first. I know Hales hasn't had a great series but I think we should stick with him for a while because the talent is there he just needs to work out how to make that work in tests. I think I'd like to see Taylor at 3 and then I'd shift Bairstow to 5, Ali to 7 and then look at another spinner, I'd probably give Kerrigan another shot.
Not sure we will need another spinner at home this summer, but we go to India next winter so will definitely need one there.
For India I think they'll go with Ali and Rashid as they did in the UAE,
Not so sure. They were debating this on SKY after the last test match and David Lloyd said they will probably look for a left arm spinner to take to India.
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Rashid has been bowling brilliantly in the big bash.
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He has, but my concern is that his bowling looks so different in Tests. I like him, but other than than second innings in the first Test he did absolutely horribly in the UAE. He deserves another shot, but they need to work out exactly what they want him to be.
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He has, but my concern is that his bowling looks so different in Tests. I like him, but other than than second innings in the first Test he did absolutely horribly in the UAE. He deserves another shot, but they need to work out exactly what they want him to be.
This is largely my concern, I think he needs to be in the ODI and T20 teams but I'm not sure he's right for tests, he himself doesn't seem confident in his bowling and as you say he bowls very differently, and it's nothing like as effective. For a leggie to work they have to encourage the batsman to try to hit them out the ground, Rashid just doesn't do that, he seems scared of going for lots.
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Blimey South Africa make 5 changes. Their batting first as well.
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Pretty poor first over from Jimmy.
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Pretty poor first over from Jimmy.
I wonder if he is still struggling with that calf strain...Broad on the money again :)
UTV
The Doc
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This has been a pretty poor start, we've been far too leg side.
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Moeen strikes and once again Taylor takes an incredible catch.
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We've bowled poorly so far.
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We have that was a really poor over from Woakes. Also if Bairstow is going to dive across Cook like he did he has to get there.
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Woakes needs to be careful here, because he's bowling really poorly. The others are bowling poorly as well, but they have credit in the bank. He was really unlucky in first Test, but there's a risk that when opportunities come up they'll look at his record and raise a few question marks.
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Anderson has been really poor. I'm starting to worry a bit about him now, this is his third Test match back he should be back at match fitness now. Not sure whether he's still struggling with his calf injury, but he's well below par.
South Africa's morning hands down.
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Anderson has been really poor. I'm starting to worry a bit about him now, this is his third Test match back he should be back at match fitness now. Not sure whether he's still struggling with his calf injury, but he's well below par.
South Africa's morning hands down.
I said during the last test that he was short of form. The concern now for me is that unless he turns it around during this test then his next test will be the first test against Sri Lanka at home in May. That's a hell of a gap and for a guy that's always been a rhythm bowler he will take time to get back to his best, assuming that he does.
Boycott said on TMS that within a few minutes of the start he was trudging back to his mark and did not have any purpose about his body language. He's always the first to moan about the ball so let's hope it's just his dislike of the Kookaburra ball that's affecting his form, although I suspect otherwise.
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De-Viller's might have been right about Anderson, he seems to have completely lost his zip.
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Moeen strikes and once again Taylor takes an incredible catch.
Yes it was. Question is how many balls he grabbed whilst completing that catch?
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Another dropped catch, this is looking like one of those games we have after we've won a series. It's not really good enough, we should be able to keep our motivation up to win any match.
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Mini fightback with a couple of wickets, but we're well behind in the game. Good 100 from Cook on debut for SA.
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Overall this has been a great series for England. One slightly worrying thing is that we seem to really struggle when bowling in the first session. I don't know what it is, but we just aren't coming out and hitting the right areas that much.
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If we can eke out another couple of wickets before stumps then we will undeservedly be ahead.
This England attack has a knack of picking up wickets when they're not bowling at their best.
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Better than it could have been, but the first two sessions have put South Africa in front.
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Just watching 'The Verdict' and they are pulling Bairstow up again about his keeping. Test matches aren't really the place for him to be developing as a keeper and it might be better in the long run to be in the side as a batsman with someone like Billings coming in.
Woakes taking some stick as well. Even though I am a Bears fan, I'd have to agree. Not even sure why he was picked for this test because with Broad and Anderson in the side, we needed a bowler who could bowl short, explosive spells. Woakes just isn't that bowler and I would have thought Footit would have been a better selection.
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Good start this morning, need to knock them over for under 380.
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Started session well and then cocked it up again. We've left a lot of catches out there.
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Another dropped catch, this is looking like one of those games we have after we've won a series. It's not really good enough, we should be able to keep our motivation up to win any match.
I think that is the difference between the good and the great sides.
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Really poor from Taylor there, we're in a spot of bother here.
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Bairstow gone. Well it was a great first hour and an absolutely diabolical second hour.
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Taylor's in this series as a specialist short leg fielder, not sure he's good enough to be our long term no 5.
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There is a real problem with 1 to 5 for England if ambition is to become a top top Test cricket team. Apart from Cook and Root others are not good enough and Hales particularly will not make it as a Test opener. He is not technically good enough. Not sure who can step in?
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I think Taylor deserves more time, he's a good player. He just needs to relax a bit.
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He's had some chances though and to be honest he's not looked good enough. I'd give him the Sri Lanka series though as we can afford to give him more time as the side is winning.
Taylors danger will be If Buttler gets some form back he could come back in and Bairstow plays as a batsman.
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I am really saddened to hear of Jack Bannister's death. I don't remember him playing for The Bears as it was before my time but do remember with fondness his absolutely succinct and unambiguous commenting on International cricket. He was the best thing on talk sport for a long while and I became an even bigger fan of his reporting once I realised his Warwickshire link. RIP Jack.
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Another dropped catch, this is looking like one of those games we have after we've won a series. It's not really good enough, we should be able to keep our motivation up to win any match.
I think that is the difference between the good and the great sides.
I'm not sure it is. How many times did we win the final test in an Ashes series after the Aussies had retained the Urn?
Psychologically you will naturally be in a lower gear. You've achieved what you set out to achieve and often the opposition step up a gear because they are playing for their places.
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Another dropped catch, this is looking like one of those games we have after we've won a series. It's not really good enough, we should be able to keep our motivation up to win any match.
I think that is the difference between the good and the great sides.
I'm not sure it is. How many times did we win the final test in an Ashes series after the Aussies had retained the Urn?
Psychologically you will naturally be in a lower gear. You've achieved what you set out to achieve and often the opposition step up a gear because they are playing for their places.
It's worth noting as well that most of the damage has been done by one bowler, when Broad rips through teams with one of his spells does it mean they're a poor team or is it just a spell of brilliance? For me the game changed when he got 3-16 this morning, I'd put that down to good bowling more than anything. I'd also put the main difference between the teams down as us letting them off with a few dropped catches. They had 3 centurions who were all dropped before they got to 50, if even 1 of those catches sticks you can knock 70-80 runs of their total and the gap is very small.
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Moeen batted really well today.
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I like Woakes' effort and application, but he's still not there as a Test bowler for me. He deserved the opportunity in this game, but I can't see him being a regular unless his bowling gets more consistent.
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Good to see Jimmy bowling nicely again.
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Going to have to bat really well to save this Test.
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Yep I'd say our best chance is South Africa batting for too long.
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Yep I'd say our best chance is South Africa batting for too long.
maybe they are worried that England might chase and get 350/400 odd....;)
UTV
The Doc
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Right, 382 to win with a possible (rain and bad light permitting) one hour tonight and 90 overs tomorrow.
Highly improbable (it would be the ninth highest run chase ever) but I reckon the likes of Root and Stokes would fancy a stab at it if the openers can get through this evening.
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Hales gets a grubber and is out.
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Hales gets a grubber and is out.
Cook gone now....C&B..Morkel
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We're folding like a deck of cards.
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Right, 382 to win with a possible (rain and bad light permitting) one hour tonight and 90 overs tomorrow.
Highly improbable (it would be the ninth highest run chase ever) but I reckon the likes of Root and Stokes would fancy a stab at it if the openers can get through this evening.
That went well then.
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Worst review ever from Compton as well. Taylor needs runs here, but Compton and Hales have certainly not nailed their places down. We've performed pretty poorly in this game, bad bowling on the first day and then a collapse in the first and now the second innings.
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25/3.....compton straight outta...:(
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and as I said worst review ever.
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that really is a shocking review, what was he thinking
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See this is my worry with Compton, I think he's a bit single minded. That choice was all about trying to save his skin and being in complete denial. Who knows that decision could cost us tomorrow.
Onto tomorrow the hopes look pretty slim, but I'd really like to see Taylor get some big runs. I rate him as a cricketer and I think he just needs a breakout innings.
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See this is my worry with Compton, I think he's a bit single minded. That choice was all about trying to save his skin and being in complete denial. Who knows that decision could cost us tomorrow.
Onto tomorrow the hopes look pretty slim, but I'd really like to see Taylor get some big runs. I rate him as a cricketer and I think he just needs a breakout innings.
I agree on Compton, a good performance in the first test has masked some pretty ropey batting since.
Taylor I really want to be good but I've always had the worry that he gets out for 20-40 a hell of a lot and he's doing that again, it's a concentration thing and he really needs to fix it if he wants to be an England player.
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Awful start this morning but it looks like Stokes is determined to have a bit of fun, it probably won't last long but could be good to watch while it does.
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May as well go down throwing the bat now. No point batting for another 30 overs and being all out for 115. I'd rather be all out in ten overs for 160.
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I know we've won the series, but we have been utterly pathetic in this Test match. It's really not acceptable to not put any effort in the last Test match even if we have won the series.
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That's the last Ashes Test and this Test now where we've been absolutely battered. It does take quite a lot of gloss off winning the series when you get so badly smashed. Losing is one thing, and I think people could understand that, it's the fact that we've been crushed without any real effort. Look at Amla's application with the bat yesterday compared to our lot.
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I'm in a forgiving mood. It's the end of yet another long winter with barely a break for those who have been there for the duration and they've just won a series in South Africa which is never easy, and won it well. I'm going to cut them some slack as long as they come back refreshed and ready for the summer.
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We do look inept at times.
Our fielding has been poor at best with many catches dropped and the batting has lacked application and guts.
Cook aside we don't have any batsmen who can stick around and grind out an innings. We need an Atherton-esque opener who bats with obduracy and stubbornness. The nearest we've has in recent years was Trott at his peak and we badly miss a player of that type. Maybe the Twenty20 generation don't have the required skillset for test cricket when the side is up against it.
101 all out is quite frankly an embarrassment, we lost 7-43 this morning.
Now for a diet of one day stuff before our next test in May.
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Long summer etc or not, and they have done really well to win in South African, but this has been a completely gutless display.
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They need to learn flaking like this in the final Test of a series, regardless of what has gone before, is not acceptable. At the very least it's not fair on the supporters who will have paid for a day's cricket, and with 7 wickets remaining could have expected a bit of fight.
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If Bell starts the domestic season with bucket loads of runs then he's in for a shout for the first test against Sri Lanka.
I'm not convinced by Hayles as a test player. He seems to get caught in two minds whether to leave the ball or not. Compton is another who I think should be dropped. His use of a referral yesterday to a ball that he'd clearly nicked illustrated that he's more interested in himself and not the team. He's a pretty average fielder too.
I'd get Lyth back in along with one of either Bell or Balance.
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I can't get upset about us losing a dead rubber having won a series away against the number one ranked Test team in the world. There are still question marks over Hales , Compton, Taylor, Woakes and Bairstow as a wicket keeper (he certainly deserves to play as a batsman) and with Cook and Anderson not contributing much I'd say it was a great series win with Broad, Root, Stokes, Broad, Finn and to a lesser extent Ali all turning in more than decent performances. Look at how many times people have moaned when England have won dead rubbers, accusations of only being able to do it when there is nothing at stake and the opposition have dropped their game because the series is won.
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Two things I'd say are that Woakes is a decent odi player but not test standard.
And never in a million years are Hales Compton and Taylor better test players than Bell.
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If Bell starts the domestic season with bucket loads of runs then he's in for a shout for the first test against Sri Lanka.
I'm not convinced by Hayles as a test player. He seems to get caught in two minds whether to leave the ball or not. Compton is another who I think should be dropped. His use of a referral yesterday to a ball that he'd clearly nicked illustrated that he's more interested in himself and not the team. He's a pretty average fielder too.
I'd get Lyth back in along with one of either Bell or Balance.
Big Ian Bell fan, but not for me. We should be building towards the next Ashes series and there it's no point going back now. I think Compton has done enough in this series to start the next one, but I would have him opening. I don't think Hales worked out, so would look at Ballance or Vince at three. I would stick with Taylor at five or move Bairstow up there and bring in a keeper further down the order.
Looking forward to the ODIs.
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I'd definitely stick with Taylor, because he got a couple of scores across the UAE and in South Africa so there's plenty there to work with. Hales probably isn't going to work out and I'm not sure on Compton because I get the feeling he values his own performance over the team's.
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I'd also stick with Taylor but bin Compton. Again. I'd look at Vince to come in and keep Hales for Sri Lanka. See if he can perform the Sehwag role.
Cook
Hales
Vince
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson or Finn
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I'd also stick with Taylor but bin Compton. Again. I'd look at Vince to come in and keep Hales for Sri Lanka. See if he can perform the Sehwag role.
Cook
Hales
Vince
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson or Finn
Agree with nearly all that team Peter, but as said above I would go for Compton instead of Hales. I think Jimmy has got another English summer in him, but the tour of India might be the beginning of the end for his international career. If he gets carted around on the dust bowls over there, the Ashes might begin to seem a long way off and he might call it a day.
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Yep, I'm with tomd, move Compton up to opener and drop Hales for Sri Lanka, then have a good look at who has started the season well domestically with a view to bringing them in for Pakistan.
Compton's style and obdurance should make him a good opener.
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I'd also stick with Taylor but bin Compton. Again. I'd look at Vince to come in and keep Hales for Sri Lanka. See if he can perform the Sehwag role.
Cook
Hales
Vince
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson or Finn
Can't argue with most of that, but for me Anderson starts and if Finn is fit he has to start. Wood is a good option, but he's not the same quality as Finn.
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I'd also stick with Taylor but bin Compton. Again. I'd look at Vince to come in and keep Hales for Sri Lanka. See if he can perform the Sehwag role.
Cook
Hales
Vince
Root
Taylor
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Broad
Wood
Anderson or Finn
Can't argue with most of that, but for me Anderson starts and if Finn is fit he has to start. Wood is a good option, but he's not the same quality as Finn.
Agree Paul. Finn is fast becoming the bowler we hoped he would be.
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There should be no doubt over Anderson's position. He didn't bowl badly in SA, just a little unlucky with his figures. He was exceptional in the UAE in what were the complete opposite of his optimum conditions.
I think him, Broad and Finn, if all fit should be guaranteed
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Just caught a bit of the U19 World Cup. England have now won 3 from 3 and qualified for the QFs. Only playing Zimbabwe, but there looks to be some decent talent there and quite unusually for us, a promising leg spinner in Mason Crane.
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To alleviate the Villa misery for a while.
England are currently slaughtering the Sarfers attack in the first ODI. Going at nearly 8 an over at the moment.
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This is the Alex Hales that we really want to see in the test team, I really think we need to persist with him and get his mind right that he needs to play like this even in the longer format.
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Good positive move that from Morgan, promoted Buttler up the order when Hales got out.
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Good platform set by the openers, middle order needs to push on now.
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That 6 from Buttler just was a thing of beauty, made it look like the easiest thing in the world.
This is a truly fantastic start, anything under 350 will be disappointing from here, 400+ is a definite possibility.
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I reckon I could hit a six from a Duminy half-tracker mind.
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I reckon I could hit a six from a Duminy half-tracker mind.
I was on about the one he hit the over before which was good length delivery from a quick (at about 88-89mph) and he he just placed it over the rope utterly effortlessly. I agree on duminy though, the 6 in that over was an absolute stinker of a delivery that had to go for 6, the follow up was piss poor as well because Buttler knew exactly what was coming and milked it for 4.
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I do enjoy the positive brand of one day cricket that we now play. It's in stark contrast to the way we performed at last year's World Cup.
The T20 World Cup starts next month. England are 8-1 at the moment, that's worth a punt.
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Yeah, sorry, I knew what you meant, I was just being facetious because just as I read your comment, Duminy lobbed that long hop up.
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The traditional 'double your score after 30 overs' would get England somewhere around 450 at the moment.
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Yeah, sorry, I knew what you meant, I was just being facetious because just as I read your comment, Duminy lobbed that long hop up.
I'm watching on sky go so I thought I might be further behind than I expected.
The traditional 'double your score after 30 overs' would get England somewhere around 450 at the moment.
I'm not sure that is relevant any more, now that teams are attacking from the off and trying to just keep that up what you're really looking for is adding 140-160 for the last 20 in most cases. As I said earlier, we'll be right up around 400 unless something goes very wrong here. The best thing is we have players at 7-10 who can easily go at 150-200% for the last 10 so if this pair and then Morgan and Stokes can get to that point safely we can go all out and aim for 100+ at the end.
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Buttler is on a mission here.
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It's a brilliant 100 from Buttler.
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Annoying he's out, we're going to struggle to get 400 now I suspect.
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399-9, tailed off a little bit at the end but a cracking innings overall.
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The innings tailed away a little but we did well to get to 399. We should have got 430+ against that attack.
I don't think that we will bowl as badly as they did so we should win this one.
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It's telling that there's a few people disappointed about not getting 400, a year ago getting 300 was beyond us.
From what I saw (I had to turn it off after 30 overs and I've just put it back on) Buttler, Hales and Roy were superb and all did their jobs perfectly, it looks like Stokes and Moeen also did a good job of pushing things along.
As for tailing off, we got 102 from the last 10, I think that'll do.
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What a fucking catch, that's right up there with the best I've ever seen.
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What a fucking catch, that's right up there with the best I've ever seen.
Brilliant wasn't it and he made it look look easy.
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What a fucking catch, that's right up there with the best I've ever seen.
Brilliant wasn't it and he made it look look easy.
The more times you see it the better it gets, Live it was like an optical illusion where the ball just disappeared. I'm really not overstating this, it's truly spectacular.
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If the South African fielder hadn't dropped the ball when he landed near the boundary during the England innings that would have been even better, some of the fielding these days is brilliant.
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Great win England, brilliant from Buttler although Jordan bowled horribly. De Kock's innings was excellent.
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If the South African fielder hadn't dropped the ball when he landed near the boundary during the England innings that would have been even better, some of the fielding these days is brilliant.
I hadn't seen that one but having watched the highlights I don't agree, that would've been a very good catch but Stokes made his look so easy that it hid just remarkable it was.
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I can never shake the feeling that Simon Hughes is very smug.
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Buttler is some player.
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Buttler really is something special, brilliant again today. Hales today showed how he should play for the test side, sensible, punished the poor deliveries and took responsibility, I'd stick with him in the summer.
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Hales has shown enough in the last two ODIs that he should keep his Test place, but he has to start showing that same form in the longer game. No reason he shouldn't but we can't afford another passenger at the top of the order hoping that the likes of Root and Stokes will bail us out every time.
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I can never shake the feeling that Simon Hughes is very smug.
He wasn't after bowling to Neil Smith.
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Hales has shown enough in the last two ODIs that he should keep his Test place, but he has to start showing that same form in the longer game. No reason he shouldn't but we can't afford another passenger at the top of the order hoping that the likes of Root and Stokes will bail us out every time.
I'm not sure with him at Test level, but like you say he deserves a longer go. My view is you need 7 matches to prove your worth. In modern terms that's normally two series.
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I can never shake the feeling that Simon Hughes is very smug.
He wasn't after bowling to Neil Smith.
One of my favourite Cricket memories!
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I can never shake the feeling that Simon Hughes is very smug.
He wasn't after bowling to Neil Smith.
One of my favourite Cricket memories!
That and Roger Twose hitting a lofted scrambled 2 vs Sussex in that extraordinarily (for its time) high scoring final.
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Smith 1hr 7 in
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Having a bit of a debate on Twitter with one Jon Collet of this parish (Richard Osman is involved as well, it was a Pointless answer) so thought I'd bring it here.
Is the Urn containing The Ashes a trophy? I know it's not presented and is kept at Lords and I know it was originally a present to Lord Darnley as a bit of a joke after the obituary on English cricket, but surely it is still what is played for every two years, not some replica.
I say The Urn is a trophy.
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Anyway, Richard Osman agrees with me and that surely is the final answer!
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It's a trophy. Essentially virtual, as you rightly say, but a trophy.
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It's a trophy.
Oh, and cheers for that vid Peter W. That might be my earliest cricket memory, jumping up and down at my nan's house with my Bears-mad granddad when Smith hit the six!
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Root playing nicely, as did Hales. Morgan is having a bit of a shocker though 6 off 21 balls, he needs to make this up.
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It's probably better that Morgan got out there, he just wasn't at the races at all.
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Need to change something here, none of our seamers are doing anything much.
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I worry about Jordan and Topley a bit. Jordan is just far too inconsistent batsmen always know a bad ball is going to come. Topley needs to add a few yards of pace, because if it's not moving off the seam or swinging he's easy to hit.
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I'm fine with Jordan, he's a fantastic fielder, scores important runs (not today clearly) and the unpredictable nature of his bowling gives him a chance of getting something from nothing, I'd stick with him and encourage him to develop better control but keep his erratic deliveries as variation, it's a fine line to balance on. The value of Stokes and Ali is that we can pick 6 bowlers without reducing our threat with the bat so we can carry a bad bowler or 2
Topley is, for me, a horses for courses bowler who offers little else. When the conditions are looking right then he's a superb choice, in less suitable conditions I'd like to see Finn or Broad take that spot.
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I thought our total was reasonable on a pitch that was showing signs of uneven bounce. Amla and De Kock batted well but our bowling was very poor. Only Adil Rashid looked threatening.
Now we're three games into the series, why bother bringing Broad into the one day squad and not select him? His experience would help the attack and I think his skiddy, back of a length bowling would have been ideal on that pitch.
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England ICC World T20 squad
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex) (Capt)
Moeen Ali (Worcestershire)
Sam Billings (Kent)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Liam Dawson (Hampshire)
Steven Finn (Middlesex)
Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
Joe Root (Yorkshire)
Jason Roy (Surrey)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
Reece Topley (Hampshire)
James Vince (Hampshire)
David Willey (Yorkshire)
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Find it slightly weird that Broad isn't involved.
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The last two seasons, Woakes has been just about the best death bowler in the T20 Champoinship. I know his form is a little off (in the test side), but I'd have took him over Jordan every day of the week.
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Jordan's super over performance in the UAE got him that place. He's a weird one for me, because when he bowls well he's a real threat. But due to his inconsistency you just never know with him. The fact he's a brilliant fielder and a very handy bat does help.
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Jordan's super over performance in the UAE got him that place. He's a weird one for me, because when he bowls well he's a real threat. But due to his inconsistency you just never know with him. The fact he's a brilliant fielder and a very handy bat does help.
As a Bear I've never been convinced about Woakes as an international player regardless of format. He's just short of international class.
For me, Jordan for all his inconsistency has more match changing potential than Woakes with both bat and ball and that's without his fielding ability.
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Jordan's super over performance in the UAE got him that place. He's a weird one for me, because when he bowls well he's a real threat. But due to his inconsistency you just never know with him. The fact he's a brilliant fielder and a very handy bat does help.
As a Bear I've never been convinced about Woakes as an international player regardless of format. He's just short of international class.
For me, Jordan for all his inconsistency has more match changing potential than Woakes with both bat and ball and that's without his fielding ability.
Can I throw Luke Wright into the equation........His batting is much better than Jordan's and his bowling isnt that bad
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Jordan's super over performance in the UAE got him that place. He's a weird one for me, because when he bowls well he's a real threat. But due to his inconsistency you just never know with him. The fact he's a brilliant fielder and a very handy bat does help.
As a Bear I've never been convinced about Woakes as an international player regardless of format. He's just short of international class.
For me, Jordan for all his inconsistency has more match changing potential than Woakes with both bat and ball and that's without his fielding ability.
Can I throw Luke Wright into the equation........His batting is much better than Jordan's and his bowling isnt that bad
He did well in the most recent BBL. I always rated him but I don't know why he doesn't get picked. If the likes of Samit Patel can be called up why can't Wright? I can only think that he wants to travel the world playing in the various T20 leagues rather than playing for England.
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See I disagree with Pietersen I think Vince is a good addition to the squad.
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Luke Wright - lets not forget that he has played 51 T20i's and has a poor batting average and middling at best bowling figures, it's not as if he hasn't had a number of chances to prove himself.
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The Saffers won the toss and we're batting. Broad and Woakes in for Jordan and Willey.
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Morgan is such an odd player when he's in form he's absolutely brilliant, but when he's out of form he's absolutely diabolical. There's no middle ground with him.
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Bloody hell this is a classic England collapse.
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Up to Root, Ali, Woakes to save this, but the one problem with this batting line up is when it goes wrong it really goes wrong.
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Huge pressure on Root here. If someone can stick around with him then we still have an outside chance of posting a total.
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I love this batting line up when things go right, but other than Root they all seem pretty flaky when things start to go against them. They need to work on that.
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I love this batting line up when things go right, but other than Root they all seem pretty flaky when things start to go against them. They need to work on that.
It's the same with the test team. They lose wickets in clusters and over the last few years our batting has collapsed so many times which is frustrating.
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Good knock from Woakes there, shame he went. The remainder of the tail need to support Root.
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The girls have just lost by 5 wkts with 7 balls to spare.
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Is it the law that Cricketers have to start each sentence with "Look"
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Joe Root really is a remarkable player and I think he'll break all sorts of English, if not world, records. It's quite incredible when you think that he should probably have 5 or 6 more Test centuries than he has.
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We could do with a Broad super-spell.
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Superb fielding from Woakes
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Interesting game now.
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We really need a couple of wickets here.
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That was a great, instinctive catch by Topley.
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Yep excellent effort.
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Woakes and particularly Broad bowled poorly. Too many long hops and not enough potential wicket taking deliveries. We had them on the rails and let them back into the game.
Clinical batting from Morris though.
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Joe Root really is a remarkable player and I think he'll break all sorts of English, if not world, records. It's quite incredible when you think that he should probably have 5 or 6 more Test centuries than he has.
His back will be the limiting factor, he clearly struggles and there's little chance of that improving over time.
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Woakes and particularly Broad bowled poorly. Too many long hops and not enough potential wicket taking deliveries. We had them on the rails and let them back into the game.
Clinical batting from Morris though.
I think that's really harsh on Woakes, in his first spell he was superb, I'm not sure why Morgan left him off for so long. Even then we were really 1-2 catches away from winning that, the rashid one in particular was a massive drop and he really should've done better.
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Woakes and particularly Broad bowled poorly. Too many long hops and not enough potential wicket taking deliveries. We had them on the rails and let them back into the game.
Clinical batting from Morris though.
I think that's really harsh on Woakes, in his first spell he was superb, I'm not sure why Morgan left him off for so long. Even then we were really 1-2 catches away from winning that, the rashid one in particular was a massive drop and he really should've done better.
His last over, when it really mattered, was horrific.
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The dropped catch by Rashid cost us the game in the end.
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Two or three dropped catches, one missed stumping and at least one excellent chance of a run-out by Morgan, we really should have won that.
Not going to blame the bowlers too much, they were mostly very good, taken apart a bit at the end by Morris throwing his bat but that happens now and again.
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We lost the toss that was a shame
Roy gone already to a very poor shot, his place has to be under pressure
We cant keep on relying on Joe Root
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Root fails, it's up to someone else to turn up.
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Good game so far. Could be real nail biter.
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Morgan has had an absolute shocker.
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Stokes needs to play this right, as he struggles a bit against spin.
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Talk about setting yourself up to be dismissed....Morgan made it easy for Wiese.
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And again the middle order is folding, poor.
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Buttler, Stokes and Ali need to play a lot smarter. At the moment they're far too loose to be the engine room.
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There are fewer things more frustrating than seeing an XI full of dangerous batsmen (down to 10, don't know about Topley), then watching these same batsmen just throw their wickets away in a procession. This should have been a 300+ score, looking unlikely now to get much north of 250.
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There is still hope with plenty of overs left. 250 will be good.
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This is bloody terrible, how about the players coming in use their brains and realise Hales is there.
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Just no need for so many of them to get out trying to hit over the top, we had loads of overs left and could have had a bash at the end with four or five wickets in hand. As it is now Hales has got to milk the strike just to get near to using all 50 overs.
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England have totally Villad this series. This game should've been a dead rubber.
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I get really irritated by the 'that's the way I play' excuse. Other than Hales it was a completely brainless display. It's fine for a couple of players to have a dash, but when that isn't working you have to adjust to the situation. The middle order really need to work out how to assess where a game is going and play accordingly.
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Topley on a hat-trick......
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......no.
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22-3, good stuff from Topley
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Excellent bowling from Topley has us back in the game.
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Lessons learned at the end of the series. Our batting needs to be a lot smarter.
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Yep, no point batting down to number 10 if eight of them are going to throw their wickets away trying to score at 8 an over all the time.
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Topley has had a nightmare last couple of overs there. Dropped a catch off Jordan in the penultimate over, bowled 2 full tosses that went for ten off the first two balls of the last over and then messed up a straightforward run out that cost England the chance of a super over.
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Topley has had a nightmare last couple of overs there. Dropped a catch off Jordan in the penultimate over, bowled 2 full tosses that went for ten off the first two balls of the last over and then messed up a straightforward run out that cost England the chance of a super over.
Yep, the run out chance for the super over was awful, pretty much unforgivable and he knew it
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How not to handle a pressure situation. Shocking.
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Jordan was very very good today. Stokes needs to learn how to play spin or he'll bomb at the World Cup.
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Congratulations to Brendon McCullum for setting the new record for his 54 ball Test 100 against the Aussies. Very very unorthodox but brilliant to watch.
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Congratulations to Brendon McCullum for setting the new record for his 54 ball Test 100 against the Aussies. Very very unorthodox but brilliant to watch.
It was great to watch. Very hot day though 30c over here.
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Roy gone again very cheaply........not sure why he is in the team really
Vince needs to come in for him really IMO
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Congratulations to Brendon McCullum for setting the new record for his 54 ball Test 100 against the Aussies. Very very unorthodox but brilliant to watch.
It was great to watch. Very hot day though 30c over here.
Lucky man being there. I love NZ cricket grounds. Major item on my "do list" sometime in the future. It was also 3c here...oh ok you had an extra 0 in there!
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Roy gone again very cheaply........not sure why he is in the team really
Vince needs to come in for him really IMO
Yeah Roy is horribly out of form. Morgan and Buttler starting to motor now, but it is a little concerning how many problems Tahir has caused us considering the upcoming tournament is in India.
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Just as we were getting on top and 200 was looking doable, there's three pretty bizarre dismissals in a short space of time and we'll do well to get 180.
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Another collapse from England, a few bizarre dismissals.
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Sorry lads, it all went tits as soon as I turned it on.
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Woeful stuff from Jordan.
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Terrible batting collapse again.
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Meh, lost at baseball, don't really care.
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I've given up trying to get into the hit and sometimes run, hadn't realised there's a World Cup coming up.
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Terrible batting collapse again.
Really odd game. We were flying with Buttler and Morgan at the crease, but list them both in consecutive balls and just couldn't get going after that. The bowling has been a bit of a concern in the shorter formats on this tour, bug I suppose we have been missing Finn and Wood who would have both played.
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Finn out of World 20/20 which is a big blow.
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Martin Crowe has passed away. A quality player RIP.
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At a time when New Zealand were still rather shit, a batting average of 45.36 is astonishing.
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Obituary on Martin Crowe from Gideon Haigh
He should teach some others how to do it
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/890241.html
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Good article apart from one thing. Martin Crowe is/was revered here in New Zealand as both a person and a cricketer. Again (like Jonah Lomu) the outpouring of grief has been both intense and immense.
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Scotland fucked that up.
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Good warm up win for England today.
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First ever World Cup win for Scotland.
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Good warm up win for England today.
Jos Buttler is a phenomenon. He is going to sell for huge amounts in the IPL. An absolute once In a lifetime cricketer.
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Good warm up win for England today.
Jos Buttler is a phenomenon. He is going to sell for huge amounts in the IPL. An absolute once In a lifetime cricketer.
This is why I'd really like to see us carry on trying to work him into the test team, I look at De Villiers and see the template and I think Buttler can be just as good (or better) in all formats and we really need to work with him to make it happen.
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Need to manage games with scores between 150 and 200 to do any good in this tournament.
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Good warm up win for England today.
Jos Buttler is a phenomenon. He is going to sell for huge amounts in the IPL. An absolute once In a lifetime cricketer.
This is why I'd really like to see us carry on trying to work him into the test team, I look at De Villiers and see the template and I think Buttler can be just as good (or better) in all formats and we really need to work with him to make it happen.
Oh absolutely and I think he will be back In the test team by the end of the summer.
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New Zealand play India in the first proper match of the T-20 World Cup.
Interesting start by New Zealand; first ball hit for 6, the second was a wicket.
New Zealand currently 18/2 off 3.4 overs.
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New Zealand play India in the first proper match of the T-20 World Cup.
Interesting start by New Zealand; first ball hit for 6, the second was a wicket.
New Zealand currently 18/2 off 3.4 overs.
NZ making a bit of a mess of it.
On the first over dismissal, an LBW that on replay was going well over the top, if there are to be no reviews in T20 what don't they allow the square leg umpire to help - I'd have thought he'd be well placed to judge height on LBWs.
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Bumrah has bowled quite beautifully.
NZ continue to make a cods of it.
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Quite exciting.
India 42/6 chasing 127 to win. Still need 85 runs off 60 deliveries.
Touch and go this.
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Looks like India are underdogs now, 3 wickets left needing 7 runs off 39 balls.
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Wow! Well played NZ.
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The astro turf pitch with cigarette burns on a length at my old school was a better than that wicket #WT20
Ben Stokes
benstokes38
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Alagappan Muthu at Cricinfo (http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-world-twenty20-2016/content/story/983079.html)
For a long time, this New Zealand team was under the charge of a man who loved a gamble or two. But would even Brendon McCullum have been funky enough to go up to his two best bowlers Tim Southee and Trent Boult on the team's opening match of a World T20 and say, 'pick up the bibs, lads. You're out.' Kane Williamson did. He saw a dry Nagpur pitch, heard how the ball had turned during the qualifier games at the venue and asked Nathan McCullum, Mitchell Santner and Ish Sodhi to clock in for duty. The first of those three spinners is in the twilight of his career, the other two had played only five matches each. And India had no answers against them.
No one expected it to go down like this. MS Dhoni and his men came into the tournament on a seven-match winning streak. They were back home now, just as New Zealand were in alien territory. They had not played in the subcontinent for two years, and their batting had all the symptoms of it to put up only 126 for 7.
An early wicket was vital and New Zealand looked to a McCullum for the magic touch. Nathan, who will join his little brother in retirement after this tournament, trapped Shikhar Dhawan lbw fourth ball. Not minutes later, Rohit Sharma was undone by a superb delivery, this time from Santner. The batsman had trotted down the pitch but made the mistake of closing the face. Normally it wouldn't have been a fatal one, considering Santner specialises in non-turning darts. But on this pitch he was given all the help he could ask for. The ball turned square, and bounced so much that the wicketkeeper couldn't collect it cleanly. But Rohit had lunged so far outside his crease that Luke Ronchi had enough time to recover.
India might not have been nervous at this point, but New Zealand began believing.
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Glad to see India lose as they refuse to allow DRS and their pathetic politicians keep preventing series against Pakistan.
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Lost toss and batting first.
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Looks like it might be a tricky pitch. Given how tough the group is we could do with winning this game.
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I listened to a few minutes of the commentary yesterday on 5 Live, it was Charles Dagnall and a female (I didn't catch her name), it was a new low in the history of TMS. The 'chat' was moronic, he might be a very nice man and all that but Dagnall is bloody terrible as a commentator.
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After a cagey first couple that's a very good 3rd over, I think 150ish will be a decent score on this wicket given how nicely it's playing for the spinners. If we can get up towards 175+ we'll be thinking we're in control.
Nice from Hales in the 4th.
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180 is a good scored, we've got to bowl nicely now.
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Early wicket for England that's a good start West Indies 2-1.
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Very good start for Willey, has completely done Samuels twice in this 3rd over.
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Crikey, we need wickets.
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We need to get rid of Gayle, as ever with WI if he bats through they have a decent chance.
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Our bowling is too random.
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Dismal bowling effort.
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I'm not sure it's fair to say it's a dismal bowling effort, this is all down to Gayle being a truly destructive opener, 80 from 38 is just brutal.
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nah crap bowling as well, where's woakes, he's got more nous than any of them
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It's been pretty poor bowling as well.
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Bowling is far too inconsistent lots of runs down legside, wides and just general inaccuracy. Simple equation now basically have to win every game.
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Credit to Jordan though he's bowled well.
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I don't think it's been good bowling but I think there's been a fair few decent deliveries that Gayle has thumped into the stands and the pressure created by seeing good deliveries go over the rope is the root cause for this. We needed to get him early, the failure to do that means we were behind the game. I don't think the effect of the dew should be understated either, a fair few seem to have 'slipped' in the hand and come out as full tosses.
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I think now in all forms of cricket have lost the toss 9 times in a row
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Our bowling has been poor with too many wides and give away balls. That said, it is always difficult bowling second under lights when the ball gets wet.
Gayle is a freak in this format, he plays the game with a smile on his face and some of his sixes were enormous. 11 x 6 and 5 x 4 in his innings. A terrific innings and he was the difference between the teams.
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Stokes was absolutely awful with the ball today, hope that's the low of the tournament. I think we sat back with the ball a bit, I don't know if it would have worked but I think we needed to go at Gayle today.
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Stokes did bowl terribly and Moeen seemed to get a little 'lost' but other than them I don't think anyone else had a particularly bad day. I just think that if Chris Gayle has a good day you need a couple of bowlers to have good days to counter him and none of them did, we just had 4 average performances (although Willey bowled superbly in his opening spell and was very unlucky not to take at least 1 more wicket).
That said I'm not convinced that Topley is ready to play at this level, I think we should've looked at having Broad or Plunkett in for this World Cup and then brought Topley in afterwards.
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Chris Gayle is a bit good at T20
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Gayle has done that to the best bowlers in the World, when he's on one he's almost impossible to bowl at.
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I cannot believe that Broad is going to spend this tournament in the television studio. He should be in the team.
Our batting is as good as anyones, but the seam bowling is just too weak for us to have a chance in this tournament.
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I agree, Broad in for Topley would have us looking much stronger with the ball because our quicks are all a bit too raw right now (with the possible exception of Willey who I rate highly as a T20 bowler). Jordan has a very good yorker but struggles if that's not working, Stokes is trying to hard to take a wicket with every delivery and Topley just doesn't seem to have worked out what he wants to be in this format (I like him in ODIs though).
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Looks like New Zealand's impressive start will continue, as they should beat Australia as well as India.
Both times they posted a pretty small total with the bat, but were able to defend it.
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New Zealand have now beaten India and Australia.
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That was an odd interview with AB de Villiers, the reporter kept referring to him in the third person, like he was talking to someone else.
How is AB de Villiers shoulder today ?
How is AB de Villiers going to bat today ?
Most strange.
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That was an odd interview with AB de Villiers, the reporter kept referring to him in the third person, like he was talking to someone else.
How is AB de Villiers shoulder today ?
How is AB de Villiers going to bat today ?
Most strange.
Tim Sherwood will be wondering what Tim Sherwood made of it.
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Rubbish bowling from England again
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Absolutely terrible start with the ball here.
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We need to grab this quick or we're going to be out of the World Cup.
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And Topley compounds his shit over by dropping a dolly.
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Bloody hell what is it with England and major tournaments.
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For fuck's sake England, it's the five sticks in the middle you clowns.
Slower half tracker down the legside. Jesus wept.
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The buffet is open
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This is absolutely diabolical at the moment.
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stop giving de kock width you idiots, bowl at his fucking toes.
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They can't they don't appear to have the ability to bowl a line or a length. This is fucking dismal.
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I had to pause the game to do the school run the other day, don't think I'll bother today.
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and eventually we get one in the right area to test de kock and he holes out, it's like they learnt nothing from the tour.
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I had to pause the game to do the school run the other day, don't think I'll bother today.
Get down there you might see some better bowlers.
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We're going to be chasing 250 here if we don't pull something out of the bag.
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All we can do now is try to take wickets and hope we slow them up a little, keeping this below 200 by containment isn't an option.
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We're lucky De Villiers got carried away there.
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No matter how hard I try I really can't get upset about any team losing a game of whack it to the boundary. Was the game invented by Americans?
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The drop of Amla is looking worse and worse right now. Topley really isn't doing himself any favours in this tournament.
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The drop of Amla is looking worse and worse right now. Topley really isn't doing himself any favours in this tournament.
I reckon he's another Jade Dernbach one trick pony. Once top class batsmen have had a look at him, he's cannon fodder.
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I still find it absolutely mental that Broad isn't there.
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The spinners have got us back into this so I can understand root coming on.
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To be honest Stokes yet again has been awful, and you can't throw the ball the rest of the clowns.
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I can see why they dropped Woakes for Topley
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Well that was an utter utter disgrace. Also knowing how England react to these things I predict we'll be about 50-6.
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Shit fielding (drops, fumbles), shit captaincy (no control over bowlers, no pressure on new batsmen - two runs in the fielding circle where the wicket keeper fields?), horribly shit seam bowling (length, line, pace).
Shit. Shit. Shit.
Now watch Tahir get 5 for.
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It's funny South Africa pick Dale Steyn because he's their best bowler, bit weird that we don't select Broad. There's no a person alive who could convince me that Broad is not a better option than Jordan and Topley.
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Hey, they can bowl shit too!
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A brave attempt so far, but too many wickets. Time for Buttler to be amazing.
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This pair need to keep the target in sight but make a partnership for 4-5 overs, keeping wickets in hand is important right now but we can't afford to get much over 11.5-12 an over.
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That's an awful innings from Morgan
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yep, Morgan has put in a nothing innings there. Buttler time, lets hope he can get a lick on now.
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Difficult to be too harsh on the batsmen in fairness though. The ineptitude of the seamers has made this an almost impossible task.
The squad selection has been proven to be a joke where the bowlers are concerned.
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Difficult to be too harsh on the batsmen in fairness though. The ineptitude of the seamers has made this an almost impossible task.
The squad selection has been proven to be a joke where the bowlers are concerned.
I think the England effort with the bat is showing that this might be a decent pitch to bat on. It's hard going to keep this up but any T20 which ends with over 400 runs being scored oyu have to look at the pitch as much as the bowlers.
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Well that was an utter utter disgrace. Also knowing how England react to these things I predict we'll be about 50-6.
Paul, don't take this the wrong way but have you ever managed to watch a game of cricket and just enjoy it?!
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Time for Moeen to finally contribute
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Time for Moeen to finally contribute
A touch harsh given he was probably our best bowler today.
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Time for Moeen to finally contribute
A touch harsh given he was probably our best bowler today.
With the bat. Hasn't really done anything with it for a while now
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Time for Moeen to finally contribute
A touch harsh given he was probably our best bowler today.
With the bat. Hasn't really done anything with it for a while now
He needs to do something with the bat I agree, but that's not what you said so I'm sticking with the original comment being harsh.
That said Root is the key here, if he's still there at the end I think we win this.
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Time for Moeen to finally contribute
A touch harsh given he was probably our best bowler today.
With the bat. Hasn't really done anything with it for a while now
He needs to do something with the bat I agree, but that's not what you said so I'm sticking with the original comment being harsh.
That said Root is the key here, if he's still there at the end I think we win this.
Yeah, Moeen's bowling has been reasonable, good today considering the carnage. His batting has been much more hit than miss in all forms for a long time now.
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This is one hell of an innings from Root, he deserves to be on the winning team.
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Yeah, he's fast becoming the best player in the world across all 3 formats
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Wonderful innings from Yorkshire
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Strong Yorkshire, strong England they say. I couldn't possibly comment!
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we cannot fuck this up, we cannot fuck this up, we cannot fuck this up.
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Well this has been utterly remarkable from the batsmen. Fair play they've done a brilliant job, particularly Roy and Root. The bowlers were desperately poor and I think Topley has to go now. Hearts in mouth at the end though.
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Absolutely brilliant batting performance, Root was absolute class.
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That's a landmark win. I'd have bet the house on us losing.
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that's a fuck load of extras, 26 in a T20 is shocking.
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That was very unEngland like. Roy did so brilliantly at the start and Root marshalled it amazingly. Topley has to go though he's bowling like a drain and he can't bat or field. At least Jordan offers other elements to his game.
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Outstanding chase.
Still think the bowlers (seam) will cost us any chance of winning this tournament, but my, that is one hell of a batting line up we have got
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Well that was an utter utter disgrace. Also knowing how England react to these things I predict we'll be about 50-6.
Paul, don't take this the wrong way but have you ever managed to watch a game of cricket and just enjoy it?!
I enjoyed the second half!
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Well I did pause it during the school run more out of hope than expectation, and watched it fast forwarding between balls - damn glad I did ! What a batting performance.
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Can anyone explain how net run rate works?
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I agree that Topley has to go, as I said earlier, my issue with him is that he doesn't seem to even know how he wants to bowl, at least with the others you can sort of see what they're trying to do which makes forgiving them for a bad day a little easier. On top of that I think the pitch did nothing to help the quicks, Steyn and Rabada looked utter bobbins as well and only Kyle Abbott and a couple of Willey overs looked anything like good enough. Root said as much in the post match interview as well.
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Root is arguably the best batsman in the world in all formats, let's hope his back holds up.
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What a match. We tried to c*ck it up final over but a fantastic run chase. Yeah, Topley needs to go.
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NRR = batting R/O - bowling R/O. All out counts as full 50 overs.
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Incredible win but I bet MCC members are choking in their G&T over the type of cricket played out there in Mumbai today.
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So did the Afrikaans bottled it again?
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Brilliant stuff from England.
It's India v Pakistan tomorrow (twice). Would love to see India get thrashed after the disgraceful way their politicians have behaved lately. Refusing to guarantee the safety of the Pakistan team is disgusting.
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So did the Afrikaans bottled it again?
Not really, bowled a bit straight and Du Plessis was so scared of us hitting over them that he let us milk them for singles whenever we couldn't find gaps but the dewy ball, a brilliant opening partnership and a phenomenal performance from Root were the key things. Dale Steyn, for example, didn't bowl any particularly bad balls (he wasn't great but he did bowl to the field he was set) but he got smashed for 35 off 2 overs.
I recommend watching the highlights though, some of the hitting from Root is beautiful, he didn't leather anything, it's all just timing and clean strikes, the ramp shot for 6 (that I think got him to 50) was just ridiculously good.
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I still can't get on with this T20 stuff, it's like cricket for people with no attention span.
I can appreciate the skills of the players and obviously that was a dramatic game today but it's not for me.
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I agree. Except when England win.
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I still can't get on with this T20 stuff, it's like cricket for people with no attention span.
I can appreciate the skills of the players and obviously that was a dramatic game today but it's not for me.
I know what you mean Dave and I'm a Test cricket guy too but some of the shot making is truly sensational. As a bowler I'd hate to play it though.
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Test cricket by miles for me. However I loved watching that
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The Indian spinners are getting massive turn in the T20 game against Pakistan. It's making them virtually unplayable which in this form of cricket is a massive boost.
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Topless is average - Woakes to replace him is a no brainer.
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I think Topley can become a very good bowler, and he has time on his side, but he's not ready to be playing at this level right now. Woakes or Plunkett in for him, not bothered which really as both would be capable of delivering 4 decent overs and both are decent in the field For once their ability with the bat doesn't really matter because we bat (in T20) right down to 10 anyway.
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Afghanistan are a proper threat and have to be in the next World Cup.
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Topless is average - Woakes to replace him is a no brainer.
Can't be Woakes can it he ain't there...he was left out to accommodate Liam Dawson. So Plunkett yes please!!!
On another note...Yorkshire 275 all out in Dubai v Mcc. Bell captain. Rikki Ckarke 2-39
Ballance 105
Rhodes 95* for Yorks
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Three terrible umpiring decisions help Windies to beat Sri Lanka (who admittedly didn't help themselves).
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Bangladesh score 156/5 off 20 overs against the Aussies.
Is that a defendable score? What does the pitch seem like?
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Didn't ever look like being enough, but the Aussies look encouragingly brittle.
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What a splendid shot by Guptill.
"His aahms nivaaah bind!.
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I wonder if today is England's traditional Associate Nations fuck up.
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Hope not.
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Didn't ever look like being enough, but the Aussies look encouragingly brittle.
Australia Vs India looks like it will determine who gets through along with New Zealand. Fancy India for it, Aussies haven't been very impressive so far.
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Vince and Plunkett in for Hales and Topley. Shame about Hales being out, but good change with Plunkett in. He offers something different and he can also bat, hopefully he won't be needed for that though.
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Hopefully the new(ish) coach will not allow any complacency in the squad. I was at Lords in 2009 when we lost to the Dutch in the T20 world cup. We had no answer to their self-belief and in your face tactics. Afghanistan play in a similar way and their team is greater than its individual parts.
Don't fuck this up England.
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I worry about us a bit here, we might be fine, but Roy is gone and Stokes struggles against spin. Hopefully we'll play this professionally.
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I worry about us a bit here, we might be fine, but Roy is gone and Stokes struggles against spin. Hopefully we'll play this professionally.
Stokes does struggle against spin, but Root, Morgan and Buttler all play spin excellently and Mo is good against spin as well so we've got plenty of options.
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god damn it morgan making me look stupid
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I wonder if today is England's traditional Associate Nations fuck up.
Looking like it
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Hmmm Morgan when he's not in form is a bloody awful player to watch. Stokes really needs to do well here. We're just getting into a spot of bother.
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I wonder if today is England's traditional Associate Nations fuck up.
Looking like it
Jesus, 3 wickets in an over
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pathetic run out as well, we do like to make things hard for ourselves
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Bloody hell, brilliant run out our best player. We are getting ourselves into serious trouble now.
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Oh FFS England!
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I worry about us a bit here
We could be 600 for 0 having bowled the opposition out for 20 in a Test and you'd still be worried Paul!
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Maybe, but losing 3 wickets for no runs which include your best player is a bit of a crisis. Stokes better get some runs now.
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fuck it, I will no longer comment on players ability to play a specific type of bowling because I think I've just given the team the greatest jinx of all time.
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What was that? A short, slow long hop. What a mess.
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England rivalling Villa for ability to shoot self in foot
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What an utter utter shambles. We need an absolute miracle to get any runs now.
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What an utter utter shambles. We need an absolute miracle to get any runs now.
We need Ali to stick around now and hopefully the others can score a few around him, they're all capable of scoring quickly so we need 1 or 2 of them to click.
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get through the next over or 2 safely and then we need to just go after them for the last 5-6 overs and try to put up a score we can defend. I still think we can look towards 130-140 but it's a big ask.
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Interestingly Vince, Stokes and Jordan have all gone to balls that have 'stuck' in the pitch, if that slow bounce holds for the quicks as well as the spinners then we can still get out of this.
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Ali giving us a slim chance here.
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Brilliant over there, I did say we had people capable of scoring still.
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We did well to get from 85-7 to 142-7 at the end of 20 overs.
The partnership between Ali and Willey doesn't guarantee success but gives us a chance.
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142 is a hell of a score from where we were when Stokes went.
Ali deserves huge credit for getting us to a decent target, need to bowl well now though.
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Moeen did a hell of a job there, but we're going to have to bowl very well. Stokes owes us because his batting was terrible, he ran out Root and his bowling has been diabolical so far this tournament.
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I'm not really sure why we didn't pick Dawson for this game, it looks like spin is the way to go.
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brilliant from Willey in the first over, that wicket is a beauty.
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Really good over from Jordan as well, should be 1-1 if Roy hadn't had a brain freeze, this is what we need to do, trust our bowlers to get wickets because we have it in the side to blow these away.
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Good start, need to keep up this momentum.
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Another great over from Willey and another wicket. Plunkett to come in as well so should continue to bowl good line and lengths.
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This looks pretty good for England now, the early wicket of Shahzad put them under a lot of pressure and it's shown.
The last wicket there (for Rashid) was another that 'stuck' in the pitch which makes me think that all the talk of this being a good pitch for batting is nonsense, unpredictable pace off the floor is probably even worse than sideways spin because it gives every delivery the chance to be a slow ball, which is a huge threat in a version of the game where you're trying to score off every ball.
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Bowlers have dragged it back very well and Plunkett has to start now in place of Topley. We should win comfortably from here in spite of our batting efforts.
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In the other games our batsmen have been in reasonable form and the bowlers have been all over the place. Today the bowlers have been on top and the batsmen out of form. If we ever manage to get the batsmen and bowlers on form in the same game we could be a good side!
It can be so frustrating following England.
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Stokes doing his best to give it away.
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Well, two in a row where we were dead in the water. All comes down to Sri Lanka game now.
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Stokes hasn't had a great game with the ball but he did get a wicket and he's bowled this last over pretty well after a poor first delivery.
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Plunkett in for Topley worked exactly as expected and his experience gave us that bit of calm we'd been missing.
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Net run rate could prove to be decisive.
If South Africa beat the West Indies on Friday then run rate could decide who makes the semis if we beat Sri Lanka and SA win their last match. If they lose to the Windies and we beat Sri Lanka then we're through.
We never qualify the easy way!
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Interesting
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12202245/Cricketers-have-been-holding-their-bats-wrong-say-scientists.html
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Unbelievable finish. 2 needed from 3 - WWW. Bangladesh in the chokiest choke ever and India win.
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Hmmm that might need to be looked at.
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Never the less two surprising games today. It'd be nice for England to get both facets of the game working together. Moeen and Willey did brilliantly with the bat and the bowlers were excellent. Plunkett has to play now.
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Hmmm that might need to be looked at.
I can't decide what to think on this, Bangladesh looked in control, that degree of choking is alarming.
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One observation I have is of Stokes, who I will preface this by saying is a super player, I'm not entirely sure he offers a lot in these conditions against spin. He bowled ok today, but it wasn't against the best batsmen, and his batting is very average against good spin. He really needs to work out how to play against spinners.
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Well we've shown we can bat and we've shown we can bowl. Put them both together and we'll win this tournament easily.
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I've only seem the last over of the India victory and I think it's a real shame that there are doubts over the viability of it. Obviously I understand the questions but it looked a bona fida win to me.
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There wouldn't be any doubts if it had been England choking, it just looked to me like two players wanting to win it with a big shot and then panic on the final delivery that was almost a wide.
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Bangladesh really Villad that. Wonder if this could be India's equivalent of the Aussie-SA Edgbaston semi and they'll go on to win it now.
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Simple equation now, win tomorrow and we're through.
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Bat better England.
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Pretty poor start at the mo.
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Much better.
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This is going to be a real arse clencher of a game I think
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Seem to be going a bit slow.
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20 to 30 short at the mo I should think
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It seems like we're going to be very short at the moment.
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Great innings by Butler unfolding here.
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Great from Buttler, but we'll have to bowl very well.
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Hopefully weve done more than enough there
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Great start.
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Getting better.
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Wonderful start and 4 early wickets is fantastic.
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What a fantastic old fashioned scoreboard that is!
Brilliant.
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Although the required rate is now up around 11, we could do with getting Mathews out.
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Going a bit wrong here we need a couple of wickets quick.
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We need Matthews gone.
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Sensible bowling from Ali, we badly need to bet Mathews though.
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Big mistake from morgan
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Big mistake from morgan
Why? He had to find an over from another bowler. Sure it was a gamble that backfired but now it's out of the way.
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Big mistake from morgan
Why? He had to find an over from another bowler. Sure it was a gamble that backfired but now it's out of the way.
Unnecessary pressure
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Fucking hell.
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Big mistake from morgan
Why? He had to find an over from another bowler. Sure it was a gamble that backfired but now it's out of the way.
Unnecessary pressure
Who else could have bowled?
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Vital wicket there
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Big mistake from morgan
Why? He had to find an over from another bowler. Sure it was a gamble that backfired but now it's out of the way.
Unnecessary pressure
Who else could have bowled?
Waited another couple of overs, but I know what youre saying,
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Nervous now.
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Nervous now.
I think we all are
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Great catch from Root
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What a fkn game,good luck lads
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Full and straight and middle stump.
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4-28 off 4 overs is a great return from Jordan.
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And breathe....
Sensible bowling by Stokes and Jordan along with good fielding. A semi awaits.
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Get in well done boys!
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And breathe....
Sensible bowling by Stokes and Jordan along with good fielding. A semi awaits.
See you at the semi VFL ;), when is it?
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Great game.
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And breathe....
Sensible bowling by Stokes and Jordan along with good fielding. A semi awaits.
See you at the semi VFL ;), when is it?
Next Wednesday and Thursday, with the final next Sunday.
30 Semi-final 1: Group 1 runners-up v Group 2 winners, Delhi (14:30 BST)
31 Semi-final 2: Group 1 winners v Group 2 runners-up, Mumbai (14:30 BST)
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And breathe....
Sensible bowling by Stokes and Jordan along with good fielding. A semi awaits.
See you at the semi VFL ;), when is it?
Next Wednesday and Thursday, with the final next Sunday.
30 Semi-final 1: Group 1 runners-up v Group 2 winners, Delhi (14:30 BST)
31 Semi-final 2: Group 1 winners v Group 2 runners-up, Mumbai (14:30 BST)
Looking like Wednesday then, gonna have to finish early
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Really good game today, the knock from Buttler and the death bowling by Jordan and Stokes was world class, and Willey is the best opening bowler in the tournament. My only criticism is that I'd have tried to get the overs out of ali and rashid a little earlier because they were always going to go after them but with 120-130 from 14 overs you might see them be a little less keen to swing at everything.
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Stokes and Jordan were brilliant at the end.
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That's how Jordan should bowl, as fast as he can.
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Brilliant from Jos Buttler and Jordan/ Stokes.
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That's how Jordan should bowl, as fast as he can.
Rather: as fast as he can, with control. Just like he did.
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But that's just it when Jordan goes to his strength, which is bowling fast, his accuracy comes with it. It's when he tries variations that he falls apart.
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Have to say I'm not a fan of slapathon cricket but being an England fan I'm interested because we're playing. Seeing how poor an outfit they were not so very long ago this is a remarkable achievement. There are still weaknesses, our bowling at times and the worry against spin, but it is mostly a positive attacking team. When we lose now the other team has usually had to win the game and not have it given to them. Other than coming across Gayle in one of those moods, we have equipped ourselves very well and deserve to be in the semi-finals at least. Big game against New Zealand coming up and they are brilliant at this slapping the ball game. But we go into it confident and expectant.
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New Zealand in Delhi is going to be one hell of a game. Those series we played against them just under a year ago were as good as I've ever seen, this should be similar.
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There you go, put the batting and the bowling together and we are a match for anyone in this tournament.
But for two of the worst overs of T20 spin bowling I've ever seen by Ali and Rashid we would have won that comfortably.
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New Zealand in Delhi is going to be one hell of a game. Those series we played against them just under a year ago were as good as I've ever seen, this should be similar.
Indeed, I'm already planning 2018 around going to the England tour of New Zealand
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PakW all out 80 our women qualify and play before our chaps on wed in Delhi
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Although not a fan of the format it would be brilliant if England were to win just to stop Piers Morgan banging on about his bestest mate in the whole wide world.
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Although not a fan of the format it would be brilliant if England were to win just to stop Piers Morgan banging on about his bestest mate in the whole wide world.
Donald Trump?
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Watching the England women play Australia. Had completely forgotten I saw them win the first world cup at Lord's in 2009 until they mentioned it.
Two good lbw decisions have got England back in the game after a fast start from Australia.
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Well how on earth did they throw that away from 67-1 & 89-2?
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Tight bowling and poor running between the wickets. Not just the run outs, they settled for 1 when there was 2 on all innings long.
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Good that we we've won the toss and are fielding first. I always feel more confident in our ability to chase.
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Important wicket that, built from the pressure of Jordan's first over.
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This looks like a batting wicket, but we're not bowling too well at the moment. Need Rashid and Moeen to pull this back a bit.
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Excellent over by Rash followed up by a poor one from Stokes. We need some wickets.
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Going to be an interesting chase here if we can hold it together for the remaining couple of overs.
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Superb over from Jordan.
And then Stokes gets two in a row both from full tosses!
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Couple of belting overs there, now finish it well England.
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Great last four from Jordan and Stokes, even if Ben did get a bit lucky with the full tosses. Below par target they all seem to reckon.
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I think we were pretty good in the field today. After the start they had I feared they'd get close to 200 so to restrict them to 153-8 is excellent.
We bowled well in the middle overs and the death bowling was brilliant. I think we're better at chasing a total in limited overs Cricket than setting a total so we've got a decent chance here.
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That is a belting bowling and fielding effort. Now come on lads bat well.
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NZ are good at defending low totals, so will need to bat well.
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Great start!
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That's an impressive start so far with 60 off 5 overs. Roy with 42 off 18 has been destructive.
Keep it up boys!
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I am about to go into the yard and start counting chickens!
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I'm going to say it - we're in the final!
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What a knock.
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Top innings from Roy, pity he got out.
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Morgan 1st baller. Again.
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Plenty of chances for dot balls. No need to get out first ball.
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I'm going to say it - we're in the final!
You just had to, didn't you ?
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I'm going to say it - we're in the final!
You just had to, didn't you ?
And also that fella counting his fkn chickens
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Morgan really is horrid when not in form.
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I don't like this approach. We have wickets in hand and a stack of quality bats to come. Play our normal game.
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That's more like it
-
Brilliant brilliant stuff a really complete performance.
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Fantastic result. I fancy us against anyone in the final.
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Now I have to find a bar in Limassol showing the final !
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Now I have to find a bar in Limassol showing the final !
Terrible task but I am sure you will manage!
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I'd probably prefer The West Indies in the final. India's home support would give them a slight advantage. Get Gayle early and I'd be confident.
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I agree Villafirst. India may also be nervous, so much pressure.
Thought I was at a kids party for the final, but not anymore!
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Get Gayle a date for the night and job is done.
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You mean try that Aussie reporter again?
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Jordan has done fantastically to come back like he has.
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You mean try that Aussie reporter again?
No that was not successful. We need Jodie Marsh to step forward and take one for England.
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Jordan has done fantastically to come back like he has.
Agree and I think the same goes for Jason Roy. Speaks volumes for the benefits of continuity of selection.
As for the game, it was one if the best limited overs performances I have seen from an England side.
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Jordan has done fantastically to come back like she has.
No that was not successful. We need Jodie Marsh to step forward and take one for England.
I never thought I'd see Jordan and Jodie Marsh mentioned in a thread about Cricket!
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The running between the wickets by the Indian batsmen was brilliant today, turned so many singles into twos.
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Glad the Windies won, as I think it gives us a better chance. They're a hell of a side though.
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Excellent game, though I'd be spitting blood over those no-balls if I was supporting India.
Agree that I'd rather the Windies than India in the final.
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Bowling Kohli for that final over was mental, it's like India have got wrapped up with him being the Messiah. He's a hell of a batsman if there's no movement in the air, but he's nothing more than a part time bowler.
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It's been an excellent tournament so far. The Sky studio team (Sangakarra and Anderson particularly very impressive) were as good as usual, though the presentation from India has been irritating - too many replays, too many crowd shots (though their taste in women has been very good), and too many grating commentators: Arnold, Manjrekar, Mbangwa and Slater (with an irritating extra dash of Warne latterly).
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For all I'm not a fan of the format I've enjoyed this tournament, today's game was brilliant. Agree with Woofles re the coverage, the choices of pictures to show today was pretty poor, many times we saw the running in the middle with no idea where the ball was.
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Great win for the Windies. Pleased that India didn't win. As well as the way they behaved like bellends to Pakistan, and are ludicrously allowed to dictate to the ICC which rules they want to play by, I don't like the fact their fans don't seem to clap good shots by the opposition.
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Something that's really annoying is that umpires don't seem to bother checking for front foot no balls any longer, if they did then maybe the Indian bowlers would have adjusted their run ups accordingly.
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Hope im wrong but I think our spin will cost us the win on sunday
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Something that's really annoying is that umpires don't seem to bother checking for front foot no balls any longer, if they did then maybe the Indian bowlers would have adjusted their run ups accordingly.
You sense a collective shrug of the umpire community's shoulders on no balls. I agree, they should be preventing them by calling them, either the old fashioned "looking" thing or by the third umpire checking video or hawkeye doing a realtime whatsit (which the BCCI would probably veto).
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Glad the Windies won, as I think it gives us a better chance. They're a hell of a side though.
Have to say that I'm also glad to see the West Indies doing well after what has happened to their cricket in the past decade., though they have remained fairly competitive in the limited overs format. As a team and excluding Gayle, the sum is greater than the parts and their bowlers have experience of the conditions thanks to the IPL. I think they will be a tough proposition on Sunday.
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Hope the West Indies win the final.
As I don't like the Aussies.
Hopefully England will stuff them in the men's final though.
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It has been entertaining but it is increasingly less like cricket:
New Zealand dropping their two best bowlers to good effect; good fast bowlers with no slips; slow bouncers and full tosses being the most effective seam bowling; switch hitting and ramp shots; and on and on.
Give the pitcher a glove and the batter a club and be done with it.
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Something that's really annoying is that umpires don't seem to bother checking for front foot no balls any longer, if they did then maybe the Indian bowlers would have adjusted their run ups accordingly.
You sense a collective shrug of the umpire community's shoulders on no balls. I agree, they should be preventing them by calling them, either the old fashioned "looking" thing or by the third umpire checking video or hawkeye doing a realtime whatsit (which the BCCI would probably veto).
That's not unique to T20 though is it? It happens in tests too.
At one time a wicket off a no ball was rare. Now there seem to be two or three instances in a test series. Bowlers know that umpires won't check and probably push it a little. It makes a mockery of the tradition of good umpires like Bird and Bucknor.
I reckon they do it to enhance the "theatre". Run out calls are the same, they all get referred to the TV umpire now whereas at one time the Umpire made the call even when a referral was available.
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At one time a wicket off a no ball was rare. Now there seem to be two or three instances in a test series. Bowlers know that umpires won't check and probably push it a little. It makes a mockery of the tradition of good umpires like Bird and Bucknor.
Every wicket is checked to see if it's a no ball so pushing it is pointless. It's just poor discipline on the part of the bowlers.
The umpires have enough to look at every ball, they can call the obvious ones but I'd leave the onus on the captain of the fielding team, him or someone on his side should be having a word with a bowler who is close to over-stepping, after all it's them who lose out when wickets are ruled out for no balls.
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At one time a wicket off a no ball was rare. Now there seem to be two or three instances in a test series. Bowlers know that umpires won't check and probably push it a little. It makes a mockery of the tradition of good umpires like Bird and Bucknor.
Every wicket is checked to see if it's a no ball so pushing it is pointless. It's just poor discipline on the part of the bowlers.
The umpires have enough to look at every ball, they can call the obvious ones but I'd leave the onus on the captain of the fielding team, him or someone on his side should be having a word with a bowler who is close to over-stepping, after all it's them who lose out when wickets are ruled out for no balls.
Umpires used to call them and everything they have to consider as the ball is bowled hasn't really changed. I don't understand why Umpires cannot call no balls anymore. How many illegal balls now go undetected? It makes a mockery of the no ball rule.
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At one time a wicket off a no ball was rare. Now there seem to be two or three instances in a test series. Bowlers know that umpires won't check and probably push it a little. It makes a mockery of the tradition of good umpires like Bird and Bucknor.
Every wicket is checked to see if it's a no ball so pushing it is pointless. It's just poor discipline on the part of the bowlers.
The umpires have enough to look at every ball, they can call the obvious ones but I'd leave the onus on the captain of the fielding team, him or someone on his side should be having a word with a bowler who is close to over-stepping, after all it's them who lose out when wickets are ruled out for no balls.
Umpires used to call them and everything they have to consider as the ball is bowled hasn't really changed. I don't understand why Umpires cannot call no balls anymore. How many illegal balls now go undetected? It makes a mockery of the no ball rule.
David Shepard missed 4 no balls that led to a wicket in the test between England and Pakistan at Old Trafford in 2001. Game would have been a draw if he'd have seen them
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Right come on England bring that trophy home.
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Looking forward to it now!
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Balls batting first, come on England.
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Sounds a good pitch so I think we'll need at least 200. Come on Jos this is your day.
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Oh dear Jason Roy.....
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Oh dear.
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Well Hales and Morgan have been quiet this tournament so we need them to turn up.
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This isn't going well.
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Hales gone, this is a nightmare start.
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I hope Morgan isn't doing his use up a load of time and get no runs thing. He has to get moving fast.
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I would of been tempted to promote Stokes
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Good boundary from Root, they were building pressure before that.
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That's better.
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Much better over
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FFS Morgan not picking Badree at all.
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Badree is all over Morgan and he's gone. Terrible knock from him. Down to Root and Buttler now.
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Had to chase all over Limassol to find a bar showing it. Missed the first two overs and now the coverage has dropped out.
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This is going to have to be a seriously good second half to the innings.
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This is not a bad pitch at all. We need these two to keep batting well.
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Buttler gone that is not good at all. We need Stokes to turn up with the bat.
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If we can keep our heads then we could get a reasonable target here.
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1st rate 50 from Joe, lets hope for a 100, now that would be nice
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Poor from Stokes.
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That slower ball bouncer is a hell of a ball to have in your armoury as a bowler.
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Bloody hell other than Root and Buttler our batsmen have been piss poor.
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That's the game.
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If we can keep our heads then we could get a reasonable target here.
So that's the H&V posting equivalent of the commentators curse.
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Just as I start to think Willey was on to something he gets out. It's all my fault.
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there is no sport other than cricket where the toss is so important. England have won the toss 4 times in the last 17, Darren Sammy has won the last 10 on the Trot.
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Great catch by Badree but looks like he dislocated his shoulder.
They've been so good in the field today.
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They've been like we were against NZ. We need a miracle from here.
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Its a defendable total so our spinners need to be in the groove,
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I reckon that total is defendable but will prove to be 30 runs short.
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We need to bowl unbelievably well.
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We need to bowl unbelievably well.
Especially at the beginning. Remove Gayle and a few others early and it will put pressure on them. The final of any tournament is when you want everything to come off, but it just didn't today and it was a real struggle.
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In the Group We had Topley bowling terribly. Can only hope for better today.
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GOOOOOOAAAAAALLLLL
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GOOOOOAAAAAAAALLLLLLL
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2 wickets for Root and Gayle one of em.
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That's the game.
You never learn do you Paul!
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This is the start we needed! Excellent from Willey has led to these wickets for Root.
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That's the game.
You never learn do you Paul!
Nope! But still long long way to go. Need to keep taking wickets to have a chance.
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GOOOOOOAAAAALLLLLL
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Remarkable! That looked way outside legside live, but I assume I didn't see it right.
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Actually bang in line.
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Need to keep these wickets coming.
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It just feels nice to enjoy watching some sport
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Samuels is a dangerous player.
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We need another breakthrough here.
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this over?
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wish granted
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Not so fast
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It's going to be given not out.
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We need Samuels gone quick.
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Rashid needs a good over here
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playing a slip in 20/20 thats brave stuff
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Can't fault Morgans captaincy so far though
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We need a couple of quick wickets or they are going to cruise this.
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Not so sure. That Run Rate is going up and Samuels is not getting much bat on it ATM.
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Not so sure. That Run Rate is going up and Samuels is not getting much bat on it ATM.
Sounds obvious, but if we can keep it tight until the 15th over the pressure will really begin to mount.
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poor lad
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That was a big catch to miss.
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The dew is killing us here. I still think we need a couple of wickets.
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If it does decide the match then its just hard luck. He didn.t try to miss it.
GGGOOOOOOOALLLLLLL that makes it better.
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Bravo and Samuels need to go.
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this might be the most times I've said Goal in ages.
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Good timing! Another couple of quick wickets please.
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Don't want to tempt fate, but looking at the batsmen the Windies have got left, I don't really see too many really destructive hitters. Billings was a bit unlucky as he slipped when trying to take that catch. Rashid bowled well.
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Samuels isn't going anywhere. That missed catch has fucked us.
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GOOOOOOAAAAALLLLLL
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Samuels is killing us. It's their game to lose now only wickets will do it.
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Poor from Plunkett. Yeessssssssss!! Great catch
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Great catch, Russell is very dangerous. But we need Samuels gone.
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GOOOOOOOAAAALLLLL
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GOOOOAALLLLL ;)
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Willley bowling great so far.
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Yeessss!! Straight to him!
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Well well!
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Got to favour the Batsmen ATM but they could run out of wickets.
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looks like we'll have to get them out around Samuels.
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brilliant bowling
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Do or Die time. This is where Sammuels is the key.
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Finishing with a flourish now.
Thank fuck, because we're watching this on a stupid stream on Now TV, which has prevented me from playing Eve all frigging afternoon.
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samuels is going to win this unless we get him out.
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This is on a knife edge. Couple of boundaries could swing it.
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fk me this is tight
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COME ON ENGLAND
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Whatever happens now. England hve fought their way back into this. Villa could learn a few lessons from them on how to fight when the going gets tough.
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19 off the last over. Stokes to bowl. Good death bowling again by Jordan.
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Belting penultimate over from Jordan.
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B@llocks. Six off the first ball.
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And the second.
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Who missed the catch to get Samuels out?
To the gallows with him.
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F@ckin hell. That's the game.
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3 sixes in a row with the game on the line. Proper bottle job in the end really.
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Ben Stokes.......wtf
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What? Why? How?
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Could always happen when they have big hitters. Not so sure why Stokes gave em dollies though.
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What a diabolical final over. Oh well.
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What a joke
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3 leg side half volleys in the last over, Stokes should be ashamed of himself.
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6 again. Ben Stokes lost England the game.
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Now that's the way to knock off 18 in the final over
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Should have bowled Joe Root
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4 sixes in a row. Well in.
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And finishes it with a fourth six in a row. Shell shocked, but have to say well done to the West Indies and young Brathwaite.
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"He looks crushed"
"He looks inconsolable "
So he fucking should. It was his fault. 19 runs to play with in the last over.
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That first ball of the final over cost the game, destroyed him, shocking delivery.
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What a last over
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Brathwaite will get the credit but that's a truly pathetic effort from Stokes and Willey and Jordan gave us a chance.
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Ah well they did well to get that far. Terrible terrible way to lose though.
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Yep, let's all blame Stokes. Yet 20 overs ago the consensus was that England were 30 runs light...
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He was trying to bowl with a sodden ball,the dope
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It was a terrible over, but took guts to bowl it. They need to make sure there is support around Stokes now.
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Good to see the West Indies women's champions celebrating with the men on the pitch
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Brathwaite will get the credit but that's a truly pathetic effort from Stokes and Willey and Jordan gave us a chance.
With hindsight, you didn't want the bowler of the last over to be bowling cold, so maybe Stokes should've taken the second last and Jordan the last. With 20/20 hindsight of course.
But, in any case, F, F and indeed S.
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World Cricket is way better when the West Indies are playing well.
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Stokes took a couple of great catches to keep us in the game. It was a hard last over to bowl no matter who bowled it. Not impressed with the line and length he chose but there you have it.
At least England got there and tried to (and almost did)defend a small target.
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It was a great game just a shame the rest of the team let the Yorkshire players down!
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Stokes took a couple of great catches to keep us in the game. It was a hard last over to bowl no matter who bowled it. Not impressed with the line and length he chose but there you have it.
At least England got there and tried to (and almost did)defend a small target.
That's the important bit (in bold) bowling onto the legs of pretty much anyone in iT20 is asking to get slogged out of the ground. If he'd bowled full outside off or a few short ones I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt but he bowled the 1 line that was guaranteed to fail. I'm convinced they were trying to tempt Brathwaite into some slogs in the hope of catching him on the rope, but that makes no sense when they needed 3-4 boundaries to stay in it.
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World Cricket is way better when the West Indies are playing well.
I agree. Rather them than the Aussies or India all day. It's a shame they don't play this well in proper cricket though, where they're still a bit of a basket case.
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Im a huge Stokes fan, but that last over was indefensible. Its acceptable to miss your length trying to bowl a yorker, but if you miss it outside offstump then we win. I have no idea Why he was trying to bowl at the stumps.
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Still can't get over it.
I'd argue we lost it rather than WI winning it. Should've won it with them needing 19 off the last over.
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Stokes took a couple of great catches to keep us in the game. It was a hard last over to bowl no matter who bowled it. Not impressed with the line and length he chose but there you have it.
At least England got there and tried to (and almost did)defend a small target.
Agree, but I think to get to the last over with the opposition needing 19 runs is good position. Jordan had shown where to bowl in the previous over - full and outside off stump, but Stokes served up four in the slot on middle and leg.
Would have been a nice tonic after yesterday, but as it was, another kick in the nuts.
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It was a terrible over, but took guts to bowl it. They need to make sure there is support around Stokes now.
That's how I see it. He will learn from it & be a stronger player for it.
I don't think there's many bowlers who would have done better.
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Stokes took a couple of great catches to keep us in the game. It was a hard last over to bowl no matter who bowled it. Not impressed with the line and length he chose but there you have it.
At least England got there and tried to (and almost did)defend a small target.
That's the important bit (in bold) bowling onto the legs of pretty much anyone in iT20 is asking to get slogged out of the ground. If he'd bowled full outside off or a few short ones I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt but he bowled the 1 line that was guaranteed to fail. I'm convinced they were trying to tempt Brathwaite into some slogs in the hope of catching him on the rope, but that makes no sense when they needed 3-4 boundaries to stay in it.
I don't think he even meant that line at all to be honest. Otherwise, why put the second one on the same spot? I don't think the deliveries came out right.
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I fucking hate sport.
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I know there's a case for not blaming anyone and making sure they're not blamed in anyway and taken care of (a la Southgate and numerous other failed England penalty takers), but surely there comes a time when you have to call it how it is. Ben Stokes fucked it up. He knows, the players know it, the fans know it and the management know it. He seems to me like the sort of guy who'd want to hear it straight and not have anyone skirt around the issue. I'm not on about dragging it up for year after year or bringing it up when it's not required, but everyone knows he fucked up so don't pretend otherwise. If you're asked the question, answer it honestly.
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Still can't get over it.
I'd argue we lost it rather than WI winning it. Should've won it with them needing 19 off the last over.
I Dont think theres any doubt that we lost it.
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I know there's a case for not blaming anyone and making sure they're not blamed in anyway and taken care of (a la Southgate and numerous other failed England penalty takers), but surely there comes a time when you have to call it how it is. Ben Stokes fucked it up. He knows, the players know it, the fans know it and the management know it. He seems to me like the sort of guy who'd want to hear it straight and not have anyone skirt around the issue. I'm not on about dragging it up for year after year or bringing it up when it's not required, but everyone knows he fucked up so don't pretend otherwise. If you're asked the question, answer it honestly.
I think thats an excellent post. Stokes will know that last over was what cost us the trophy. Sugar coating it, or deflecting blame will not help. He'll Come back stronger for the experience.
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Glad It was the Windies that beat us and not the Aussies.
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Et tu cricket?
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We get it, you blame Stokes. It's a team game, it wasn't him who dropped a fairly straight forward catch off his own bowling though.
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At least we are moving in the right direction in all forms of the game.
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We get it, you blame Stokes. It's a team game, it wasn't him who dropped a fairly straight forward catch off his own bowling though.
I guess it's all relative. If we had got more runs, Stokes might not have had the pressure of bowling the last over in those circumstances.
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Right well done to the Windies if this success can translate into some young players wanting to play in all formats of the game that'll be good for cricket.
In terms of England, the positives -
- a young team showed great character in numerous situations to be competitive when it seemed unlikely.
- Root was fantastic and should have been named player of the tournament rather than Kohli.
- Jordan has become a reliable and excellent death bowler.
- Roy is developing well, although clearly needs to work out how to play spin.
- Buttler is beginning to make more consistent key contributions.
- Bayliss has clearly got us going in the right direction and there is huge potential for growth.
Negatives/Areas of improvement -
- Stokes really needs to work out how to bat in the subcontinent, because he hasn't made anywhere near enough runs when coming in at 6.
- Morgan has to work out how to get runs when he's in poor form, because at the moment as a batsman he's a passenger.
- We still need to assess situations better at times today. When we lost Root, Buttler, Stokes and Moeen so closely together it all seemed a but wreckless. Had we thought a bit more calmly we probably would have got 170-180 and won the game.
Overall though a really positive tournament, just a shame we lost in the manner we did.
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We get it, you blame Stokes. It's a team game, it wasn't him who dropped a fairly straight forward catch off his own bowling though.
Has anybody explained why Hales was off the pitch, by the way? If we had lost in slightly different circumstances there might have been Billings Gate type headlines.
Anyway, the reason we lost the rounders is that they had a team pastor and prayed daily.
No point praying after the event, Ben.
(http://p.imgci.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/239300/239381.3.jpg)
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Well, that was certainly a heavy kick in the bollocks, but it was only just over twelve months ago that we were being outclassed in the 50 over world cup playing hopelessly outdated cricket. To come so far so fast is very encouraging.
Stokes last over was a shocker, but if you've ever tried to bowl yorker at the death you'll know the difference between perfection and a half volley is very small under that pressure. Stuart Broad had a similar experience early in his career and he came back better for it. If we'd scored 20 more runs and not dropped Samuel, it might have been a different result, you can't pin it all on Stokes.
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It is very frustrating seeing people say he Got his length wrong. It was the LINE that cost him.
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Outside the off stump, we win. Regardless of length
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We get it, you blame Stokes. It's a team game, it wasn't him who dropped a fairly straight forward catch off his own bowling though.
I'm sorry, I'll think of something else...
...we go again...😀
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Anyway it was a fantastic final....but not a fantastic result
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With cricket being a team game I think it's unfair to point the finger at one player, the openers, Morgan and Ali barely contributed with the bat, the dropped catch was costly, only playing four Yorkshire players (!) were all factors. For all I'm really not a fan of the format I really enjoyed the game and the tournament.
It's not proper cricket though.
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With cricket being a team game I think it's unfair to point the finger at one player, the openers, Morgan and Ali barely contributed with the bat, the dropped catch was costly, only playing four Yorkshire players (!) were all factors. For all I'm really not a fan of the format I really enjoyed the game and the tournament.
It's not proper cricket though.
I'd agree there were numerous errors that contributed to defeat and Stoke's over was just part of it. However they've had a great tournament and will get better.
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On reflection, I didnt see Morgan stepping in, telling Stokes he was bowling completely the wrong line.
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Still, fair play to WI. They beat us twice and beat India in their pen back yard. Cant argue they deserve the trophy
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Poor old Stokes he will now forever be remembered for that shit sandwich of a last over
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Poor old Stokes he will now forever be remembered for that shit sandwich of a last over
Stokes is the type of player who will produce more breathtaking feats that will undoubtedly counter the memory of those 4 balls. His innings against the Saffers, 258 off 198 balls; fastest century at Lords etc. Two things he's archived in the last year and today he was the youngest player out there.
No one remembers Botham's bad games. Everyone remembers Gareth Southgate's penalty miss. Stokes will win many more games for England in the future & will be a stronger player having lived through the heartbreak of today.
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Right well done to the Windies if this success can translate into some young players wanting to play in all formats of the game that'll be good for cricket.
In terms of England, the positives -
- a young team showed great character in numerous situations to be competitive when it seemed unlikely.
- Root was fantastic and should have been named player of the tournament rather than Kohli.
- Jordan has become a reliable and excellent death bowler.
- Roy is developing well, although clearly needs to work out how to play spin.
- Buttler is beginning to make more consistent key contributions.
- Bayliss has clearly got us going in the right direction and there is huge potential for growth.
Negatives/Areas of improvement -
- Stokes really needs to work out how to bat in the subcontinent, because he hasn't made anywhere near enough runs when coming in at 6.
- Morgan has to work out how to get runs when he's in poor form, because at the moment as a batsman he's a passenger.
- We still need to assess situations better at times today. When we lost Root, Buttler, Stokes and Moeen so closely together it all seemed a but wreckless. Had we thought a bit more calmly we probably would have got 170-180 and won the game.
Overall though a really positive tournament, just a shame we lost in the manner we did.
I would add that it is high time we caught up with T20 and have a proper domestic tournament independent of the counties. Championship and 50 overs for the counties, new T20 competition involving city based franchises.
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I would add that it is high time we caught up with T20 and have a proper domestic tournament independent of the counties. Championship and 50 overs for the counties, new T20 competition involving city based franchises.
Trouble with that is, you're just going to end up with London (twice), Birmingham, Nottingham, Manchester and Leeds ie the traditional test grounds and the big wealthy counties.
Meanwhile the likes of Chelmsford and Taunton, who have invested a lot of money in lights and parking and get great crowds, lose out.
You may see larger crowds per game, but overall attendance is likely to go down.
So you have to decide what you're aiming for - something to engage the kids at grass roots, or another elite global competition. Do we really have to play keeping up with the Patels ?
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If that were to happen I could see 'Leeds' struggling to fill Headingley as an awful lot of the Yorkshire support comes from the rest of the county.
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Just have the top eight Twenty20 teams go into the top league, and invest so that each top league team has four foreign stars to attract publicity and sponsorship.
The rest can go in Division Two and only have one foreigner each. Top league clubs can also loan players to Division Two teams.
Whether the teams want to keep their county names or change to a city name should be up to them. I suspect Yorkshire and Surrey, for instance, carries more cachet than "Leeds" or "South London", but Nottingham and Derby probably sound better than the lengthier county names.
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Yes Stokes last over was a shocker, but let's give credit to Brathwaite, considering the pressure he was also under, that has gotta be one of the greatest last over batting displays seen in one day international cricket.
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Braithwaite had no choice but to do what he did. He got lucky with the first one and kept going. No one expected him to win it. The over was Stokes. The team had worked hard to set it up for him and he messed up. There is no need for any excuses. He lobbed 4 peaches.....
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Simon Hughes aka The Analyst claims that Stokes isn't temperamentally suited to bowling at the death in pressure-cooker situations. Samuels always gets under his skin:
Stokes lost head in battle with Samuels
England all-rounder is a special talent but his personality is not suited to bowling the last over
Simon Hughes | The Analyst
April 5 2016, 1:01am,
The Times
At the climax of an adrenaline-fuelled event such as Sunday’s World Twenty20 final, it may be hard to envisage the role that psychology plays. Surely it is just a matter of the bowler putting the ball in the right place and/or the batsman hitting and hoping? In fact, the state of mind and general demeanour of the two combatants has a massive influence on the outcome. The inflammatory post-match comments of the victor Marlon Samuels about the vanquished Ben Stokes suggests that perhaps he was not the ideal person to bowl the final over, courageously willing though he was to do so.
Bowling at such critical moments is a precise art. Not only does it require special skill, but also an unusual mix of optimism and fatalism. You must have the self-belief that you can direct the ball exactly where you want to, but also the realisation that it could go horribly wrong. As I wrote in The Times preview to the final, when bowling at the death “there is a tiny margin between getting it right and disappearing for 15 an over”. Having bowled the last over in three Lord’s cup finals (won two, lost one), I know this from bitter experience.
Samuels is a hugely provocative character: self-satisfied, outspoken, controversial
Despite the immensity of the situation and your jangling nerves, you must try to exude a Zen-like calm. Any tension in the hands and fingers will ever so slightly inhibit the release of the ball — the difference between bowling a perfect yorker and a hittable halfvolley. Naked aggression or overexcitement can have the same result. The heart-rate needs to be controlled and the breathing slow. It’s best to take your time between balls.
The best bowlers in these situations marry high levels of skill with a phlegmatic imperviousness. Watch a last over from Lasith Malinga or Dwayne Bravo, or from England’s best “finisher” Darren Gough. They look focused but relaxed. They run in with energy and determination, but they smile and shrug when things don’t go quite as planned. The responsibility sits lightly on their shoulders. What will be will be, their body language seems to say. It can be quite off-putting for the batsman.
Stokes, for all his brilliant all-round ability, is not a composed character. He is passionate, confrontational. That is what makes him an exhilarating Test-match cricketer, bringing to life a dormant period of play and seizing the moment. But that vivid, emotional streak has been counterproductive in the high-octane environment of the one-day game, where he is yet to deliver the match-winning performance for England that his talent promises.
He is so uptight. Watch him bat in a one-day game. He stands at the crease bristling with intent and tries to obliterate the ball with every stroke. And that’s just in the nets before play. Trevor Bayliss has tried to steer him down a calmer path, pre-match, but it hasn’t worked so far. And in Sunday’s final he allowed himself to get embroiled in verbal warfare with Samuels, even before the West Indian’s innings had got going.
Samuels is a hugely provocative character: self-satisfied, outspoken, controversial. He deliberately gets under opponents’ skin and takes great pleasure in doing so. He feeds off confrontation. It fuels his determination. There have been many with similar traits. The Australian, Steve Waugh, was one. He thrived on opponents’ animosity. If someone didn’t sledge him when he first came to the wicket, he’d have a go at the bowler or a close fielder to stir things up, to create a frosty atmosphere. That got his juices flowing and enhanced his fighting qualities.
The best way to deal with such a personality is to ignore him, pretend he’s not there. Waugh hated that, and Samuels would too. They see themselves as “special” and “different”. They don’t want to be treated like everybody else. It makes them feel inconsequential. But with so much previous hostility between him and Samuels, Stokes couldn’t help himself.
Samuels feeds off confrontation and it fuels his determination
SAURABH DAS/AP
The verbal spats began, rousing Samuels and riling Stokes. They continued periodically, Samuels fanning the flames. By the time Stokes came to bowl the 20th over, he looked like he was about to combust, although he was doing his best to contain it.
To make matters worse he had not bowled since the 13th over. Usually when you bowl at the death, you need a couple of balls to settle your nerves and get your bearings. He had been entrusted with the 18th over in earlier matches and had got a couple of loose deliveries out of the way before the denouement. But on Sunday, because David Willey had taken two slightly fortuitous wickets in the 16th over, he was entrusted with the 18th. Stokes was denied the relative comfort of a few balls to find his rhythm before the critical moment.
His first ball of that final over lacked conviction. It drifted down the leg side into Carlos Brathwaite’s huge arc and was swung away for an easy six. If that was bad, the sight of Samuels, 85 not out and smirking at the non-striker’s end, was worse. The contest was lost at that point. The momentum had swung irreparably, although the brutality of Brathwaite’s striking was breathtaking.
After the game, Eoin Morgan rightly blamed England’s poor batting. It was not Stokes’s fault. But you cannot discount the mind games that left one man a hero and the other heartbroken.
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I'd agree with at, I'd have got him to bowl 15th and then had willey and jordan bowl the last 4.
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Shocked to see that Notts and England batsman James Taylor is forced to retire at only 26 with a serious heart condition. Really sad to see. He looked a decent prospect.
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Terrible news and good luck on his health in the future. I thought he was a really promising player who had a great character. Hope he's able to stay involved in the game in some capacity.
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Taylor's untimely retirement potentially opens the door for Ian Bell to return. Bell scored 174 against a decent Hampshire attack, albeit one minus Reece Topley.
I'm an admirer of Bell and he will undoubtedly score heavily against county attacks but I really think we should take the longer term view and give Ballance another go.
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I think it'll probably be Ballance that'll come in.
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It'll probably be Ballance but I'd leave him for now. Maybe Buttler or Vince to get a look in? That Kent opener is highly rated so maybe they'll go with him at the top.
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It is a real shame about James Taylor he was a good player to watch.
On a happier note, congratulations to Kane Williamson on being the Wisden player of 2015. I've seen him play quite a few times over past couple of years and he is a magnificent batsman. Him and Joe Root are the best and most outstanding batsmen in the world and given their ages will both get better.
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On a happier note, congratulations to Kane Williamson on being the Wisden player of 2015. I've seen him play quite a few times over past couple of years and he is a magnificent batsman. Him and Joe Root are the best and most outstanding batsmen in the world and given their ages will both get better.
Shame won't get to see them playing together for Yorkshire this season.
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James Vince and Jake Ball are in the squad for the first test:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/36272668
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Interesting squad. I like Vince, so pleased to see him get an opportunity. I haven't seen much of Ball, but looks like he's the sort of bowler who will suit English conditions. Anyone else seen more of him?
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I would argue that Stokes is exactly the type of player to bowl at the death https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/14/ben-stokes-cricket-world-cup-test-series-simon-hattenstone (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/14/ben-stokes-cricket-world-cup-test-series-simon-hattenstone)
"Look, Stokes says, progress is never going to be linear. “There’s this one picture I always think of.” He looks at the pen and pad in front of me. “Pass us the pen and paper. People want success to look like this.” He draws a straight line. “But it’s always going to be like this, up and down, up and up and down, and hopefully you end up at the top.” He draws a diagram that works its way upwards via a series of squiggly dips and bumps.
Does he still dream about that final World Cup over? “No. I do dream, but about jumping 300 foot in the air, then landing back and jumping again.”
Does he feel that he blew it? He turns his cap around back to front. “The first ball was crap. I just didn’t execute it like I wanted to. The second and third ball, I was just trying to bowl yorkers [straight and low-down on the stumps, to restrict the batsman’s chances of hitting the ball]. I didn’t blow it…” He stops and starts again. “Well, obviously I did blow it! People say, why didn’t you bowl yorkers? And I’m like, ‘Well, I was fucking trying to bowl fucking yorkers, you dickheads, I just didn’t execute it!’”
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Might as well post it here as well as it's a great interview.
Jonny Bairstow (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/16/jonny-bairstow-adversity-family-cricket-father?CMP=share_btn_tw)
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I've definitely been one of the Bairstow doubters but that was a great interview. Good luck to him.
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I wouldn't call myself a doubter but i thought England did him a lot of harm making him carry drinks for 18 months, I'm glad it hasn't stopped him becoming a good player.
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Matthews calls heads. wins toss and bowls!!
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Steady start, less than 2 runs an over - Proper Creekit!
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Cook gone 16 ct behind off Shanaka, his first test wkt. Cook falls 20 short of his 10000 runs
49/1
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Compton 0 third ball ct Thirrimane b Shanaka 49-2
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51/3
Root Ct Silva b Shanaka 0
Hales still battling away 33*
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Bloody rubbish Root. Send him back to Yorkshire to find some form!
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Shanaka 3-5 from 4 overs....not a bad start to his Test career.
Vince still 0 (9) Herath on now looking for 3 more victims to take him to 300
56-3
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Root and Cook I can forgive a little, they got done by good deliveries that drew them into driving at the ball. Compton i have less sympathy, I think his wicket was very cheap. Hales is showing a lot of maturity so far, hopefully he can stick around and have one or 2 big partnerships to take us on to a 350-400 score which i think will be competitive on here.
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Root and Cook I can forgive a little, they got done by good deliveries that drew them into driving at the ball. Compton i have less sympathy, I think his wicket was very cheap. Hales is showing a lot of maturity so far, hopefully he can stick around and have one or 2 big partnerships to take us on to a 350-400 score which i think will be competitive on here.
Think we will have to bat very well to reach that kind of score Paul. I would probably take anything over 300 at the moment.
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Root and Cook I can forgive a little, they got done by good deliveries that drew them into driving at the ball. Compton i have less sympathy, I think his wicket was very cheap. Hales is showing a lot of maturity so far, hopefully he can stick around and have one or 2 big partnerships to take us on to a 350-400 score which i think will be competitive on here.
Think we will have to bat very well to reach that kind of score Paul. I would probably take anything over 300 at the moment.
I agree, I might revise it down to 250-300 but lets wait and see how Stokes and Bairstow do first, if those pair (and Hales) can build things a little there are runs here, Stokes might be the perfect option because I think being more positive will help on this surface.
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Shows what i know, this is looking bad.
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If it stays overcast for 3 days 225 will be competitive on here. Not sure what forecast is.
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This is terrible at the moment.
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If it stays overcast for 3 days 225 will be competitive on here. Not sure what forecast is.
I'm thinking you might be right, this looks like a tough pitch to get in on and looks really tough to rotate the strike.
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At last a positive:
Hales 51*
98/5
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Well done Alex.
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Nice fightback but once again too many failures among the recognised batsmen.
It is good that England are allowing players time and not chopping and changing but Compton must be on very thin ice now.
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Hi guys. can anyone recommend a good stream. Tried Tunein and it won't play the Cricket. Can't get the bbc site due to not being in the country...
Any help gratefully received.
PS Looking at the score, I may give it a miss...
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Hi guys. can anyone recommend a good stream. Tried Tunein and it won't play the Cricket. Can't get the bbc site due to not being in the country...
Any help gratefully received.
PS Looking at the score, I may give it a miss...
A mate of mine watching it on 'Arena Sport 1' if you can get it.
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Bairstow 51*
167/5
Shoots of recovery blossoming here
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Hi guys. can anyone recommend a good stream. Tried Tunein and it won't play the Cricket. Can't get the bbc site due to not being in the country...
Any help gratefully received.
PS Looking at the score, I may give it a miss...
A mate of mine watching it on 'Arena Sport 1' if you can get it.
All I can get on that is the Bindippers end of Season party last night being re-run...
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Bairstow is doing what I hoped Stokes would here and putting pressure on the bowlers. This has become a very good partnership now and looks to have pushed us back towards par.
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Hi guys. can anyone recommend a good stream. Tried Tunein and it won't play the Cricket. Can't get the bbc site due to not being in the country...
Any help gratefully received.
PS Looking at the score, I may give it a miss...
A mate of mine watching it on 'Arena Sport 1' if you can get it.
All I can get on that is the Bindippers end of Season party last night being re-run...
smartcric.com
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Bairstow is doing what I hoped Stokes would here and putting pressure on the bowlers. This has become a very good partnership now and looks to have pushed us back towards par.
I did raise an eyebrow when I saw that Bairstow was batting as low as seven, but he has been needed today. Need this partnership to continue, Ali to get a score and the tail to wag a bit.
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Hales and Bairstow have done very well.
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Nice fightback but once again too many failures among the recognised batsmen.
It is good that England are allowing players time and not chopping and changing but Compton must be on very thin ice now.
Yeah I'd have thought Compton is close. He just doesn't seem to cope with pressure too well. He normally starts a series ok, although not today, and then goes downhill the more the pressure comes on.
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Chucking it down round these parts, reckon that will be it for the day.
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Chucking it down round these parts, reckon that will be it for the day.
Raining in Yorkshire? Never ;)
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Nice fightback but once again too many failures among the recognised batsmen.
It is good that England are allowing players time and not chopping and changing but Compton must be on very thin ice now.
Yeah I'd have thought Compton is close. He just doesn't seem to cope with pressure too well. He normally starts a series ok, although not today, and then goes downhill the more the pressure comes on.
Other than his name I'm not a fan of Compton but I think he'll get the series if not the summer. But we can't keep going 3 down in the blink of an eye.
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Nice fightback but once again too many failures among the recognised batsmen.
It is good that England are allowing players time and not chopping and changing but Compton must be on very thin ice now.
Yeah I'd have thought Compton is close. He just doesn't seem to cope with pressure too well. He normally starts a series ok, although not today, and then goes downhill the more the pressure comes on.
Other than his name I'm not a fan of Compton but I think he'll get the series if not the summer. But we can't keep going 3 down in the blink of an eye.
3 down in a blink won't be common, that means one or both of Root and Cook have gone cheaply. The problem is you need a 3 who can come in and adapt, so if we've got 150 on the board and the conditions are good they need to be able to go at 4-5 an over and pile the pressure on but if an opener has gone cheaply they need to be able to step in and see off the new ball. Compton when he's in form can do the latter but he will never be a good choice for the former, which is why I'd be looking to replace him, it's why Trott was so good for a few years, he just played the role he was needed to (usually with a slow start but escalating).
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Started well this morning, Bairstow just got a life though. This is what I was hoping for yesterday, a big partnership to get us moving forward and get 300-350 back on the table. There's still a lot to do but conditions look better this morning and both are looking in good form so hopefully this pair can push us past 250 and then one can stay with the tail and let Ali and Broad (in particular) try to cash in a little.
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398 for Herath
Hales fails to get to the pitch of one and gives a catch to Chameera 86
224/6 72.3
Bairstow 91*
Ali 0*
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298 not 398
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Ali gone
231/7
Ali Ct Mendis b Chameera 0
Bairstow 97*
Broad in
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233/8 76 overs
Broad b Chameera 2
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Outside of Hales and Bairstow who have done very well, this has been a pretty pathetic batting display.
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and we're back to 250 looking a decent score, we need those 2 to offer much more resistance.
Given Finn and Anderson are all we have left I'd like to see Bairstow (now he has his 100) just start smacking it around a little. 20-30 quick runs here could be hugely important for us.
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Where does Vince bat for Hampshire? Could he be the 3 we're looking for? Bairstow up to 5 and Buttler in at 7 seems like a good way to strengthen things but I have no idea if Vince would be suited to 3. I would like to see Buttler back in and Bairstow higher though.
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Where does Vince bat for Hampshire? Could he be the 3 we're looking for? Bairstow up to 5 and Buttler in at 7 seems like a good way to strengthen things but I have no idea if Vince would be suited to 3. I would like to see Buttler back in and Bairstow higher though.
I think Compton deserves a few more chances, but I'm pretty sure that's where Vince bats for Hampshire Paul and I think the above suggestion makes sense. We could experiment at five though and have a look at some other options.
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I think Vince is a potential long term 3. I'm starting to think is there a lot of point in continuing with Compton? I'm not really sure he's ever going to cement his place.
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I do wonder about our batting line up, just because he is the wickie does Bairstow have to bat at 7, surely he's a number 5 at worst?
I'd move him and also possibly Ali (who is a primarily a batsman but as we don't have another spinner is counted as a bowler by England) above Stokes and let Stokes just heave away with the tail-enders rather than try to build an innings which he isn't particularly good at but needs to be able to do if batting at 5 or 6 when we have lost quick wickets.
In fact, drop Compton and bring another bowler in, we can still bat to No.7 and below them Broad has a Test century.
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I do wonder about our batting line up, just because he is the wickie does Bairstow have to bat at 7, surely he's a number 5 at worst?
I'd move him and also possibly Ali (who is a primarily a batsman but as we don't have another spinner is counted as a bowler by England) above Stokes and let Stokes just heave away with the tail-enders rather than try to build an innings which he isn't particularly good at but needs to be able to do if batting at 5 or 6 when we have lost quick wickets.
In fact, drop Compton and bring another bowler in, we can still bat to No.7 and below them Broad has a Test century.
When Stokes has played lower in the order in other forms he's really struggled, I think weirdly he needs the responsibility of 6 to get the best out of him.
I think long term you could have Vince at 3, Bairstow at 5, Stokes at 6 and Buttler at 7.
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Bairstow gone which is a shame but he did exactly what I wanted him to and pushed the score along, with Finn supporting him well we've probably pushed 35-40 more runs than they'd have planned for when Ali and Broad went cheap.
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298 all out, pretty happy with that all things considered, I think 50-60 more were out there if we'd not lost wickets in clumps though.
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Where does Vince bat for Hampshire? Could he be the 3 we're looking for? Bairstow up to 5 and Buttler in at 7 seems like a good way to strengthen things but I have no idea if Vince would be suited to 3. I would like to see Buttler back in and Bairstow higher though.
I think Compton deserves a few more chances, but I'm pretty sure that's where Vince bats for Hampshire Paul and I think the above suggestion makes sense. We could experiment at five though and have a look at some other options.
Thanks, I thought I'd seen him called a top order batsman before which is why I thought it might be worth looking at.
On Compton, he has 13 tests and has looked uncomfortable in most of them, 2 good centuries in New Zealand and a decent 85 in South Africa make his average look better than it should. I don't think he's terrible but I also don't see him as part of the team in 12 months time.
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10-1 4 overs
Karunaratne ct Bairstow b Broad0
Silva9*
Mendis 0*
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Make that:
12-2 4.4Overs
Silva ct Bairstow b Anderson 11
Mendis 0*
Chandimal in
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Beauty from Broad commentators blaming the batsman a little but I think that's a bit unfair, that one seemed to 'wobble' in the air, I can completely understand why he felt he had to play it.
Followed up by a spitter from Jimmy, again you could fault the batsman but that takes away from how clever a delivery it was.
12-2
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Thats 434 for Jimmy drew level with Kapil Dev but played less tests so above
12-3
Mendis Ct Bairstow b Broad 0
5.2 overs
Back to Jimmy 85 behind Courtney Walsh
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Dammit, knew I should have hit pause before I left on the school run. Hopefully will be home in time to rewind.
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Broad is utterly unplayable when he gets in a groove, if he hadn't gone through that phase of trying to be a bully I think he'd be right up with Jimmy on wickets taken.
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Never judge a wicket until both teams have batted on it!
This is doing just enough off the pitch especially when you are bowling a line like Broad is.
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Jimmy has bowled some really nasty deliveries here, seems to be getting a little bit of extra bounce with a few.
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Jimmy has bowled some really nasty deliveries here, seems to be getting a little bit of extra bounce with a few.
The wicket he took was a brute of a ball
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First ball after Tea
43/4
Chandimal Ct Vince b Stokes 15
Matthews 15*
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Bad light stopped play
Still 43/4
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Good delivery and a lovely catch on debut for Vince.
Thirimanne is looking very nervy with Stokes bowling some nasty ones from round the wicket ...
and then a cloud ruins it.
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Back on now
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We don't seem to be bowling with the same intensity since the bad light.
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Just got home to watch this. Seem like plenty of empty seats. They should stop hosting tests at provincial grounds.
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We don't seem to be bowling with the same intensity since the bad light.
Until Jimmy's last six balls.
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That ball to get Shanaka almost feels like cheating, how the hell is a lower order debutant supposed to do anything else with that, absolute peach.
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We don't seem to be bowling with the same intensity since the bad light.
Until Jimmy's last six balls.
Yep, I very nearly followed that line with "we should get Jimmy and Broad back on" but then Stokes bowled a couple of nicer ones and I backed off.
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Bloody hell, Jimmy has just become unplayable!
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The movement in the air is doing the damage. I'm glad they've got Broad on as well, I think this could be all over in a couple of overs if Broad bowls like he did earlier.
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Superb catch from Finn.
If we can mop this up cheap I'd force the follow on, the conditions suit us perfectly right now.
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91 for 9, they might not make the follow on
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91 all out, nice work lads
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Can't knock that 5-16 for Jimmy & 4-21 for Broad, couple tonight would be nice.
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Yes it would PGW
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Lovely bowling display.
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the worst thing is I think 91 flatters them a little, I reckon you could find 7-8 more that missed an edge by a fraction of an inch. 2-3 good overs each from jimmy and broad and I suspect we'll make a dent in this innings tongiht as well.
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You have to say, the batting might be fragile but this bowling attack must be the best currently playing in Test cricket.
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You have to say, the batting might be fragile but this bowling attack must be the best currently playing in Test cricket.
Broad and Jimmy are currently 1st and 5th in the test bowling rankings, as a pair they can blow teams away very quickly and then Finn, Ali and Stokes are all good options if things aren't working as well.
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You have to say, the batting might be fragile but this bowling attack must be the best currently playing in Test cricket.
Best pace attack certainly, and probably the best all round package. Just lacking a mystery spinner for the sub-continent.
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Bloody hell, Jimmy has just become unplayable!
Did you see that one ball from Vince before tea ?
That pitch has turned into how the one in our local park use to play. Pitch the ball on a length and watch it fly over the slips
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That's all folks.
Jimmy brought back on to castle a tail ended for a ten wicket hall
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It's not often that a team wins by an innings and 88 runs when they didn't even score 300 themselves
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I watched the bit before the rain and thought SL had got themselves together and would make us bat then got distracted by the rugby and flicked it back on in time to see the end. Sounds like Jimmy and Finn have had a bit of fun there.
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You have to say, the batting might be fragile but this bowling attack must be the best currently playing in Test cricket.
Best pace attack certainly, and probably the best all round package. Just lacking a mystery spinner for the sub-continent.
Agreed, and frustrations surrounding Rashid prolong this situation. However, you'd imagine that for other countries' batsmen there's no tour they look forward to less - when it's swinging for Broad and Anderson, they're just horrible to play against.
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Poor from Sri Lanka, but brilliant from Jimmy and Jonny. Broad and Hales did really well as well.
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You have to say, the batting might be fragile but this bowling attack must be the best currently playing in Test cricket.
Best pace attack certainly, and probably the best all round package. Just lacking a mystery spinner for the sub-continent.
Agreed, and frustrations surrounding Rashid prolong this situation. However, you'd imagine that for other countries' batsmen there's no tour they look forward to less - when it's swinging for Broad and Anderson, they're just horrible to play against.
Don't forget that Mo has a bit of a golden arm though, he's not on the level of Swann yet but he does have a knack of coming on and taking wickets in his first over or 2. His record of 1 for 2 from 1 in this test underlines this, it won't get any headlines but it means he is a nice change bowler to have in your pocket. I think Stokes falls into the same bracket as well, with the 3 main bowlers being Jimmy, Broad and Finn who will all take wickets fairly regularly.
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You have to say, the batting might be fragile but this bowling attack must be the best currently playing in Test cricket.
Broad and Jimmy are currently 1st and 5th in the test bowling rankings, as a pair they can blow teams away very quickly and then Finn, Ali and Stokes are all good options if things aren't working as well.
In overcast English conditions, Anderson and Broad are pretty much unplayable at times. The Sri Lankans are in a period of transition, but to lose by an innings and 88 runs when the first innings s ore is 298 is pretty poor really.
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As Sir Geoff just said, men against boys and if conditions are in any way similar in Durham, there's only one result.
I'm going to second day at Lord's, looking likely to be a dead rubber.
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Sri Lanka clearly don't have the batsmen to be able to cope with Anderson and Broad at the moment.
However, lets not forget that both Australia and SA have been bowled out for less than 100 by England in the last year.
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Sri Lanka clearly don't have the batsmen to be able to cope with Anderson and Broad at the moment.
However, lets not forget that both Australia and SA have been bowled out for less than 100 by England in the last year.
That's what I was thinking. A pattern is emerging here.
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You have to say, the batting might be fragile but this bowling attack must be the best currently playing in Test cricket.
Best pace attack certainly, and probably the best all round package. Just lacking a mystery spinner for the sub-continent.
Agreed, and frustrations surrounding Rashid prolong this situation. However, you'd imagine that for other countries' batsmen there's no tour they look forward to less - when it's swinging for Broad and Anderson, they're just horrible to play against.
Don't forget that Mo has a bit of a golden arm though, he's not on the level of Swann yet but he does have a knack of coming on and taking wickets in his first over or 2. His record of 1 for 2 from 1 in this test underlines this, it won't get any headlines but it means he is a nice change bowler to have in your pocket. I think Stokes falls into the same bracket as well, with the 3 main bowlers being Jimmy, Broad and Finn who will all take wickets fairly regularly.
Joe Root tends to take a wicket on the odd occasion that he bowls too.
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Torygraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2016/05/26/england-vs-sri-lanka-chris-woakes-returns-in-place-of-injured-be)
England vs Sri Lanka: Chris Woakes returns in place of injured Ben Stokes
Nick Hoult, Cricket News Correspondent
26 May 2016 • 1:11pm
Chris Woakes will return to the England side in place of the injured Ben Stokes for the second Test against Sri Lanka tomorrow in Chester-le-Street.
Alastair Cook, the England captain, confirmed Woakes will play forcing Jake Ball of Nottinghamshire to wait for his first Test cap.
Woakes has regained his Test place on the back of taking nine for 36 for Warwickshire earlier this week just hours after learning of his call up to the squad for the second Test.
Cook also said that Jonny Bairstow will move up to six in the batting order and Moeen Ali to seven with Woakes slotting in at eight.
“We enjoy playing with a balance and this gives Chris another opportunity to play for England,” said Cook. “I don’t think we’ve seen the best of him yet in an England shirt, but he’s in fine form for Warwickshire – a nine-for and a hundred in the last two weeks. We know Ben balances our side really well, but we need competition for the all-rounder place.
“Certainly a lot of people want to come and watch him play, so he’s going to be a big loss for us, but injuries are part and parcel of a side and we need to learn how to play without him, and this gives Chris the opportunity to fill that all-rounder role. Mo goes up a spot and Jonny as well, so that gives them an opportunity.”
This will be Woakes’s seventh Test for England in three years and despite adding pace to his bowling he has struggled to take wickets at international level. He has eight wickets at 63.75 but bowling to Sri Lanka at the Riverside is a golden opportunity to improve that record.
England have liked Ball’s bowling but they have a series to win this week and do not want to gamble on a longer tail despite the hammering meted out to Sri Lanka at Headingley.
Nick Compton admitted yesterday that he is playing for his England place in this match and at Lord’s next week and Cook backed him to come good.
“Naturally that’s the nature of the beast. It’s quite refreshing that he’s come out and said it in one way,” he said. “You’re always under pressure when you’re playing for England because of the standard of competition for places. People want to take his place. He’s got another opportunity here. He’s practised really well. We know he’s a good player, there’s no doubt about that.
“Look at his record over the past five years, he’s been right at the top of the run-scoring chart. He played some good innings in South Africa, certainly at the start of the tour – that 80-odd, he battled hard and set up a good win. And he’s scored two hundreds already. So he can play at this level. Like all of us, he’s only a score away, and he needs a score, but he’s in a really good place to do that.”
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Big game for Compton this.
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Slightly odd decision to bat on the face of it.
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Deeply crap shot by Cook to get out. He and Hales had done well up to then too.
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5 short of 10,000.
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Is it bad that I want Compton to fail?
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Is it bad that I want Compton to fail?
Nope
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This may turn out to be a really silly thing to say but his knock in Leeds seems to have really helped Hales, he's batting very well here. This is the player I expected to see him become where he punishes bad balls and keeps us ticking along, but with the option to score quick runs if it's required. I think the extra confidence of being kept despite an average tour in SA has really helped him grow into the role.
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This may turn out to be a really silly thing to say but his knock in Leeds seems to have really helped Hales, he's batting very well here. This is the player I expected to see him become where he punishes bad balls and keeps us ticking along, but with the option to score quick runs if it's required. I think the extra confidence of being kept despite an average tour in SA has really helped him grow into the role.
He looks a little less "loose".
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oh for fuck sake Compton, barely swung his bat for 45minutes and then holes out trying to hook for 6. The way the guy stayed down I was convinced he'd either touched the rope as he fell or landed with the ball on the ground.
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Is it bad that I want Compton to fail?
Nope
Why would anyone want an England player to fail. In my opinion i don't believe he should be in the side, but for whatever reason the selectors
see it differently, but i would never wish him to fail.
I agree with the comments in regard to Hales, i never wanted him anywhere near an England Test team. I was one of those whose feet were firmly
planted in 'he's only a 1 day player'. I am happy to say that he is proving me wrong...and may him continue to do so.
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I want him to fail because I don't like him. Nor do i think he's good enough. I am happy for him to score runs and get dropped though but that is unlikely so I want Engalnd to rack up 600 runs and Compton to get the single digits that he did. And I'd drop Cook.
Nah.
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I want him to fail because I don't like him. Nor do i think he's good enough. I am happy for him to score runs and get dropped though but that is unlikely so I want Engalnd to rack up 600 runs and Compton to get the single digits that he did. And I'd drop Cook.
Nah.
Can't argue with that!!!
No chance with Cook and nor should it be so, in a day or so he will become the youngest player to score 10000 runs. You cannot knock that record.
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I want him to fail because I don't like him. Nor do i think he's good enough. I am happy for him to score runs and get dropped though but that is unlikely so I want Engalnd to rack up 600 runs and Compton to get the single digits that he did. And I'd drop Cook.
Nah.
Can't argue with that!!!
No chance with Cook and nor should it be so, in a day or so he will become the youngest player to score 10000 runs. You cannot knock that record.
Cook a couple of years back when he was trying to lead the ODI and T20 sides as well looked like a liability, since he's bene removed from those squads he's been much better. This series I think the pressure of getting 10k (whether he admits it or not) has got to him.
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I want him to fail because I don't like him. Nor do i think he's good enough. I am happy for him to score runs and get dropped though but that is unlikely so I want Engalnd to rack up 600 runs and Compton to get the single digits that he did. And I'd drop Cook.
Nah.
Can't argue with that!!!
No chance with Cook and nor should it be so, in a day or so he will become the youngest player to score 10000 runs. You cannot knock that record.
Cook a couple of years back when he was trying to lead the ODI and T20 sides as well looked like a liability, since he's bene removed from those squads he's been much better. This series I think the pressure of getting 10k (whether he admits it or not) has got to him.
I agree 100% with that but that isn't a reson to drop him, he needs the right support to nurture him through this phase. I must admit it's fortunate that we are playing a poor Sri Lankan side.
Surely he will get the required 5 in the second innings after which he can relax and get back to his normal self.
After this latest failure by Compton i'm sure he will certainly keep his place for the next game. After that against Pakistan who knows!!
A fine 50 from Hales...well played.
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Good from Hales.
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That's a terrible review, when the impact is over the top of the pads it's very rare that the ball won't be going over the top on the ball tracking, smacks of desperation a little.
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That's frustrating for Hales, but he's done well again. Just needs to be a bit more measured against the spinner.
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yeah, seemed to think he needed to smash him out of the attack, big shame because he was playing really well up until then. Root is looking good though and hopefully we get 2-3 more decent partnerships. As with the last game I don't think a par score on here is going to be that high, if we can get 350+ I think that will be enough to put them under real pressure.
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Now I may be biased, being down in Hampshire, but I really rate Vince. He's got that class about him that I think will make him a Test player.
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Sri Lanka's catching has been magnificent.
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The 'good' thing here is that this is playing like a normal Durham pitch, which is that you're never really in. As individual wickets they all look like good catches and poor shots but this is just what happens at Durham it's an odd ground (especially early in the season) for this.
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This is excellent from Jonny and Mo.
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That is a really poor time to lose Bairstow.
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Probably England's day just.
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If they have a whack in the first session tomorrow, and I think they will, the Sri Lankans wouldn't get 400 in 3 innings.
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I think we'll beat Sri Lanka regardless, but in terms of long term development we need to bat smarter.
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I have a sneaking feeling that Hales and Vince will be very good Test players.
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I think we'll beat Sri Lanka regardless, but in terms of long term development we need to bat smarter.
I think that's harsh, as i said earlier this ground is notorious for players holing out to innocuous looking deliveries when they were looking good, it's happened to Hales, Root and Bairstow today.
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I have a sneaking feeling that Hales and Vince will be very good Test players.
Yeah. I like the fact that they have both curtailed their default shot making and gone to grind mode when conditions are tough and/or wickets are falling.
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50 partnership for Woakes and Ali -52
Somewhat fortunate i suppose with the chances that have gone down.
Nice to see CW get some runs 31* plus Ali 46*
351/6
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39 a top score in tests for Woakes...probably should have been better. An important contribution a 92 partnership to help England close to a 400 total, 389/7
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Beautiful knock by Mo, fully deserved 150.
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What a fantastic day for Woakes so far.
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I think we need to find a way of getting Moeen coming in at 7.
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Finn doesn't look quite right at the moment.
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Sri Lanka do not appear to be very good at cricket at the moment.
Batsman walks out and batsman soon walks back........Ceylon and thanks for all the fish
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Finn doesn't look quite right at the moment.
Bring Stokes back when fit, keep Woakes in and drop Finn. Woakes is quicker and much better with the bat.
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Sri Lanka look like a side that's missing 2-3 world class batsmen but they've also got a big problem the bowling has been unrelenting. I think we're the only side around right now who can lose a quick or 2 and still put out a 5 man attack that is constantly asking questions. That depth of genuinely threatening quick bowlers is why we have a very good chance of ending the summer holding every single test trophy.
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Finn doesn't look quite right at the moment.
Bring Stokes back when fit, keep Woakes in and drop Finn. Woakes is quicker and much better with the bat.
Right now it would be hard to justify doing anything else.
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Sri Lanka have just lost two genuine all time greats. They're going to take a while to adjust. Ali batted really well today, and Anderson and Broad are just world class as a unit. Woakes had a great day and Finn not so much, but they're both fine players and we really do have an embarrassment of riches at the moment.
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Finn doesn't look quite right at the moment.
Bring Stokes back when fit, keep Woakes in and drop Finn. Woakes is quicker and much better with the bat.
When Sky showed the high/average bowling speeds, I was surprised to see that Woakes was quicker than Finn
Bringing in Stokes for Finn would give England won if the deepest batting lineup ever, with really only Jimmy who has rabbit tendencies
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Finn doesn't look quite right at the moment.
Bring Stokes back when fit, keep Woakes in and drop Finn. Woakes is quicker and much better with the bat.
Right now it would be hard to justify doing anything else.
Yep at the moment I'd agree, but I'd qualify that by saying that Finn at his best is a much better bowler than Woakes.
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Finn doesn't look quite right at the moment.
Bring Stokes back when fit, keep Woakes in and drop Finn. Woakes is quicker and much better with the bat.
Right now it would be hard to justify doing anything else.
Yep at the moment I'd agree, but I'd qualify that by saying that Finn at his best is a much better bowler than Woakes.
I agree but Finn's best doesn't happen as much as it should and I'm not sure why. Woakes gives us as much because whilst he bowls at a good pace he does it with an action and an efficiency that means he could give you 2-3 8-10 over spells in a day which we won't get from anyone else. I like having a workhorse quick, it means you can tie down an end with them and a spinner pretty easily and then rotate in short spells at the other end. If he can get 'right' Finn should be perfectly suited to those short spells.
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I think Finn's problem is injuries disrupt him. If he can get a year of sustained fitness he'll be outstanding.
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I only saw the highlights on C5 last night so forgive me for making such a massive leap but his bowling yesterday reminded me of a certain Aussie fellow named McGrath.
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I'm pleased to see SL make a better fist of this.
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The delivery to get Mendis there is yet another beauty from Jimmy.
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What a ball that was from Mo.
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2 very poor reviews in an over there.
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Are u including the Root 'catch' in that as that wasn't a review just umpires checking carry. Or have i missed a review!!!
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Are u including the Root 'catch' in that as that wasn't a review just umpires checking carry. Or have i missed a review!!!
No you'#re right, I'd been out the room and assumed it was a review, my bad. I can understand why the umpires checked it. The review for the edge was ridiculous, he got nowhere near it.
Finn is totally out of sorts here, he's offering very little threat.
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When will international bowlers learn that you should never review one that hits above the knee, another wasted review.
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Off on our annual Cricket tour next weekend from London, must admit organising it is a bloody nightmare but seeing us all there enjoying it is ace, our best player is Muslim and I purposely arrange each year around Ramadan just so he can play!
Friday - The Evesham Fossils in the shadows of the Malverns, as the name suggests we have to have a minutes silence before each match to remember one of their team that has passed.
Night in Worcester.
Saturday - Travel to Chipping Campden to play their 3rd team, cracking BBQ and stay in the village.
Sunday - Off to Oxfordshire for a change to play Addington
Can't wait.
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Off on our annual Cricket tour next weekend from London, must admit organising it is a bloody nightmare but seeing us all there enjoying it is ace, our best player is Muslim and I purposely arrange each year around Ramadan just so he can play!
Friday - The Evesham Fossils in the shadows of the Malverns, as the name suggests we have to have a minutes silence before each match to remember one of their team that has passed.
Night in Worcester.
Saturday - Travel to Chipping Campden to play their 3rd team, cracking BBQ and stay in the village.
Sunday - Off to Oxfordshire for a change to play Addington
Can't wait.
Sounds fantastic. I really miss playing cricket, and tours were just the best thing.
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Off on our annual Cricket tour next weekend from London, must admit organising it is a bloody nightmare but seeing us all there enjoying it is ace, our best player is Muslim and I purposely arrange each year around Ramadan just so he can play!
Friday - The Evesham Fossils in the shadows of the Malverns, as the name suggests we have to have a minutes silence before each match to remember one of their team that has passed.
Night in Worcester.
Saturday - Travel to Chipping Campden to play their 3rd team, cracking BBQ and stay in the village.
Sunday - Off to Oxfordshire for a change to play Addington
Can't wait.
Sounds fantastic. I really miss playing cricket, and tours were just the best thing.
Posts like this only add to my befuddlement about the phrase "nah, I don't like cricket".
My boy's four. If he doesn't like football, I'll be disappointed, but I reckon I'll get over it.
If he doesn't like cricket, I'll be gutted.
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Neither of my boys play any sort of sport - they were put off by idiot coaches at a young age. And the younger one is a natural. Drives me absolutely insane.
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If Stokes is fit next test what do we do?
Gotta play Stokes surely, but Woakes has proved himself.
Drop Finn?
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If Stokes is fit next test what do we do?
Gotta play Stokes surely, but Woakes has proved himself.
Drop Finn?
Stokes has had his cartilage cleared out and is on crutches. He's not going to be fit. Which arguably makes it clear cut for Lord's - Finn v Ball.
When he's back it will be tricky but I don't see why you can't stock the side with all rounders, provided they are genuinely good enough to warrant a Test place in at least one discipline.
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The team will be the same for Lords. I reckon Finn will bowl better at Lords.
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Well played SL, Chandimal has played a super knock.
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England have got pretty ragged here.
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Posts like this only add to my befuddlement about the phrase "nah, I don't like cricket".
My boy's four. If he doesn't like football, I'll be disappointed, but I reckon I'll get over it.
If he doesn't like cricket, I'll be gutted.
My son had a couple of seasons playing cricket but I realised he wasn't enjoying it. I was gutted but wasn't going to force him to play something he clearly didn't enjoy, used to love going along to watch when all you heard was encouragement and support from parents and coaches and opposition players being respectful unless they were playing Harrogate Cricket Club. Nothing like the atmosphere at a lot of junior football matches and some of the parents and coaches you encounter.
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Posts like this only add to my befuddlement about the phrase "nah, I don't like cricket".
My boy's four. If he doesn't like football, I'll be disappointed, but I reckon I'll get over it.
If he doesn't like cricket, I'll be gutted.
My son had a couple of seasons playing cricket but I realised he wasn't enjoying it. I was gutted but wasn't going to force him to play something he clearly didn't enjoy, used to love going along to watch when all you heard was encouragement and support from parents and coaches and opposition players being respectful unless they were playing Harrogate Cricket Club. Nothing like the atmosphere at a lot of junior football matches and some of the parents and coaches you encounter.
Yep, this is the reason why I'd prefer my son (and daughter to be fair) to go into cricket or rugby if they want to play a team, kids football is (mostly) horrible in this country. The obsession with 'bigger, stronger, faster' starts then and very little gets done to break that until it's too late.
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lovely delivery from Broad to get Chandimal.
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England have got pretty ragged here.
Why do you say that - a completely flat wicket all the pace has gone out of it....oh as i type last one gone.....
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SL open up with Herath, Cook surrounded 4 required for his goal.
Apparently 11th time opened the bowling in Tests
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10000 Test Match runs to Cook....a dodgy misfield to give it him...hearty congratulations
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Congratulations Cookie, hopefully that will clear his mind and he'll be more himself in the next series because it's clearly affected his game in the last couple of tests.
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Congratulations Cookie, hell of an achievement that.
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England have got pretty ragged here.
Why do you say that - a completely flat wicket all the pace has gone out of it....oh as i type last one gone.....
Because they did. Their bowling, other than Anderson, dropped off, as did their fielding. It's sort of understandable, they're mostly a young side and these are the lessons they need to learn to be the best in the world. The areas that need work on are we are still too prone to batting collapses, we drop a few too many catches and there's not enough quality spin pushing Moeen.
We're definitely moving in the right direction and are already a good side, but we still need to work on a few bits.
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The obsession with 'bigger, stronger, faster' starts then and very little gets done to break that until it's too late.
My son is one of the smaller boys at his club, start of the season the coaches had a chat with each player and told him he's the most skilful player they have but he won't play in many matches as he "doesn't track back or tackle". He decided after training that day he'd still go to training but had no interest in playing in matches. Didn't prevent him getting in the school team whilst his Sunday team were getting hammered week in, week out!
Completely different attitude from cricket coaches, they just wanted the boys to enjoy it, although not all junior football coaches are like the ones we've encountered the last couple of years it has to be said!
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Unchanged 12 for the last test so it looks like Compton stays for now. Wonder if they give Ball a go for Finn? Doubt they'll drop Woakes after that first innings spell of 3-9.
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Unchanged 12 for the last test so it looks like Compton stays for now. Wonder if they give Ball a go for Finn? Doubt they'll drop Woakes after that first innings spell of 3-9.
ECB have released Root & Bairstow plus Woakes & Ball to play in the forthcoming round of T20 games. Ball can also play in another couple of games inc 50 over match so i assume looking at him closely
as a possible replacement for Finn.
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Some great fixtures for Edgbaston next year in the Champions Trophy and hopefully and England v India semi final as well
Event schedule:
Thurs, 1 June – England v Bangladesh, The Oval (d)
Fri, 2 June – Australia v New Zealand, Edgbaston (d)
Sat, 3 June – Sri Lanka v South Africa, The Oval (d)
Sun, 4 June – India v Pakistan, Edgbaston (d)
Mon, 5 June – Australia v Bangladesh, The Oval (d/n)
Tues, 6 June – England v New Zealand, Cardiff (d)
Wed, 7 June – Pakistan v South Africa, Edgbaston (d/n)
Thurs, 8 June – India v Sri Lanka, The Oval (d)
Fri, 9 June – New Zealand v Bangladesh, Cardiff (d)
Sat, 10 June – England v Australia, Edgbaston (d)
Sun, 11 June – India v South Africa, The Oval (d)
Mon, 12 June – Sri Lanka v Pakistan, Cardiff (d)
Wed, 14 June – First semi-final (A1 v B2), Cardiff (d)
Thurs, 15 June – Second semi-final (A2 v B1), Edgbaston (d)
Sun, 18 June – Final, The Oval (d)
Mon, 19 June – Reserve day (d)
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Unchanged 12 for the last test so it looks like Compton stays for now. Wonder if they give Ball a go for Finn? Doubt they'll drop Woakes after that first innings spell of 3-9.
Could be Compton's last chance. Could see him being dropped, Vince moving up to three, Bairstow up to five and Borthwick coming in at six.
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Unchanged 12 for the last test so it looks like Compton stays for now. Wonder if they give Ball a go for Finn? Doubt they'll drop Woakes after that first innings spell of 3-9.
I'd definitely keep Finn in. He's had two poor Test matches, but he's a quality bowler and he needs to be persevered with.
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Unchanged 12 for the last test so it looks like Compton stays for now. Wonder if they give Ball a go for Finn? Doubt they'll drop Woakes after that first innings spell of 3-9.
I'd definitely keep Finn in. He's had two poor Test matches, but he's a quality bowler and he needs to be persevered with.
That's true but it's a dead rubber at Lord's and it's a great time to blood a youngster.
Maybe rest Jimmy ?
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Unchanged 12 for the last test so it looks like Compton stays for now. Wonder if they give Ball a go for Finn? Doubt they'll drop Woakes after that first innings spell of 3-9.
I'd definitely keep Finn in. He's had two poor Test matches, but he's a quality bowler and he needs to be persevered with.
That's true but it's a dead rubber at Lord's and it's a great time to blood a youngster.
Maybe rest Jimmy ?
I don't think you should blood players in Tests. My view is that Finn is quality and should play. Jimmy won't want to be rested, he doesn't play the other forms now. If Ball has it he'll get in sooner or later.
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Finn is a rhythm bowler so what better than his home test to encourage him to hit his straps? I'd keep him. We've not dropped players during series recently so unlikely to drop Compton.
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I don't think you should blood players in Tests. My view is that Finn is quality and should play. Jimmy won't want to be rested, he doesn't play the other forms now. If Ball has it he'll get in sooner or later.
I think you have to, Test cricket is so much more difficult and pressurised than any other form of cricket, even ODIs don't come close, I think Ball should play, maybe for Finn but also a chance to give one of Broad or Anderson a break.
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Unchanged 12 for the last test so it looks like Compton stays for now. Wonder if they give Ball a go for Finn? Doubt they'll drop Woakes after that first innings spell of 3-9.
I'd definitely keep Finn in. He's had two poor Test matches, but he's a quality bowler and he needs to be persevered with.
Agree. Have you seen the 'England in the 90's' documentary on SKY? Many of those interviewed said it was the constant chopping and changing that undermined the confidence of certain players. Finn smacks me as the kind of player who could suffer a loss of confidence in those kind of circumstances.
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Really enjoyed that England in the 90s doc I must say.
Although I'm still in the minority that would rather see my team win the Championship than see England do well!
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Really enjoyed that England in the 90s doc I must say.
Although I'm still in the minority that would rather see my team win the Championship than see England do well!
For me club/county always come before country in any sport.
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What about Scott Borthwick @ Durham for the no5 position so drop Compton if he fails at Lords and move Vince up to no3 which was the original plan apparently before Taylor sadly had to retire, Borthwick is in fine form, is a brilliant fielder and a more than decent leg spinner and we will need another spinner for the winter when we tour Bangladesh/India
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Unchanged 12 for the last test so it looks like Compton stays for now. Wonder if they give Ball a go for Finn? Doubt they'll drop Woakes after that first innings spell of 3-9.
I'd definitely keep Finn in. He's had two poor Test matches, but he's a quality bowler and he needs to be persevered with.
Agree. Have you seen the 'England in the 90's' documentary on SKY? Many of those interviewed said it was the constant chopping and changing that undermined the confidence of certain players. Finn smacks me as the kind of player who could suffer a loss of confidence in those kind of circumstances.
Finn, except for one short spell, bowled some awful stuff in the last test, and it's wouldn't be "chopping and changing" it would be giving a player a debut at Test level in a game where he's not under massive pressure. I like Finn, but he's currently the weakest of our pace attack given the way Woakes bowled, there's got to be a time when the weakest in any position is dropped to give others a chance or we are not going to be able to move forward.
See also Compton, I'm a bit disappointed not to see him dropped for this Test, it's not like he's going to be the future of England cricket is it? Blood one of Lions.
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Really enjoyed that England in the 90s doc I must say.
Although I'm still in the minority that would rather see my team win the Championship than see England do well!
For me club/county always come before country in any sport.
Every single time for me although love to see the Yorkshire players doing well for England.
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Unchanged 12 for the last test so it looks like Compton stays for now. Wonder if they give Ball a go for Finn? Doubt they'll drop Woakes after that first innings spell of 3-9.
I'd definitely keep Finn in. He's had two poor Test matches, but he's a quality bowler and he needs to be persevered with.
Agree. Have you seen the 'England in the 90's' documentary on SKY? Many of those interviewed said it was the constant chopping and changing that undermined the confidence of certain players. Finn smacks me as the kind of player who could suffer a loss of confidence in those kind of circumstances.
Finn, except for one short spell, bowled some awful stuff in the last test, and it's wouldn't be "chopping and changing" it would be giving a player a debut at Test level in a game where he's not under massive pressure. I like Finn, but he's currently the weakest of our pace attack given the way Woakes bowled, there's got to be a time when the weakest in any position is dropped to give others a chance or we are not going to be able to move forward.
See also Compton, I'm a bit disappointed not to see him dropped for this Test, it's not like he's going to be the future of England cricket is it? Blood one of Lions.
Finn and Compton are completely different though. Finn is and has been a world class bowler, as recently as the tour of South Africa. Once he is in rhythm he is a devastating strike bowler, you don't discard that after two poor games. There have been points in their career where Anderson and Broad were diabolical, but perseverance got them through it. Compton has never proven he's anything more than a good county player.
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Unchanged 12 for the last test so it looks like Compton stays for now. Wonder if they give Ball a go for Finn? Doubt they'll drop Woakes after that first innings spell of 3-9.
I'd definitely keep Finn in. He's had two poor Test matches, but he's a quality bowler and he needs to be persevered with.
Agree. Have you seen the 'England in the 90's' documentary on SKY? Many of those interviewed said it was the constant chopping and changing that undermined the confidence of certain players. Finn smacks me as the kind of player who could suffer a loss of confidence in those kind of circumstances.
Finn, except for one short spell, bowled some awful stuff in the last test, and it's wouldn't be "chopping and changing" it would be giving a player a debut at Test level in a game where he's not under massive pressure. I like Finn, but he's currently the weakest of our pace attack given the way Woakes bowled, there's got to be a time when the weakest in any position is dropped to give others a chance or we are not going to be able to move forward.
See also Compton, I'm a bit disappointed not to see him dropped for this Test, it's not like he's going to be the future of England cricket is it? Blood one of Lions.
Finn and Compton are completely different though. Finn is and has been a world class bowler, as recently as the tour of South Africa. Once he is in rhythm he is a devastating strike bowler, you don't discard that after two poor games. There have been points in their career where Anderson and Broad were diabolical, but perseverance got them through it. Compton has never proven he's anything more than a good county player.
The only thing I'd say against that is that Finn is slow right now (he should have been easily the quickest of the 4) so it really depends on what is causing that, if it's just purely lack of rhythm then maybe an extra week with his county might have been a better idea but carrying drinks would do him no good. Personally I would have gone with 'rested' and left him out of the 12 and called up borthwick as well. that gives a seamer and a spinner so we can suggest it's picking based on the track but it also gives us another middle order batsman so we can put some pressure on Compton as well.
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Unchanged 12 for the last test so it looks like Compton stays for now. Wonder if they give Ball a go for Finn? Doubt they'll drop Woakes after that first innings spell of 3-9.
I'd definitely keep Finn in. He's had two poor Test matches, but he's a quality bowler and he needs to be persevered with.
Agree. Have you seen the 'England in the 90's' documentary on SKY? Many of those interviewed said it was the constant chopping and changing that undermined the confidence of certain players. Finn smacks me as the kind of player who could suffer a loss of confidence in those kind of circumstances.
Finn, except for one short spell, bowled some awful stuff in the last test, and it's wouldn't be "chopping and changing" it would be giving a player a debut at Test level in a game where he's not under massive pressure. I like Finn, but he's currently the weakest of our pace attack given the way Woakes bowled, there's got to be a time when the weakest in any position is dropped to give others a chance or we are not going to be able to move forward.
See also Compton, I'm a bit disappointed not to see him dropped for this Test, it's not like he's going to be the future of England cricket is it? Blood one of Lions.
Finn and Compton are completely different though. Finn is and has been a world class bowler, as recently as the tour of South Africa. Once he is in rhythm he is a devastating strike bowler, you don't discard that after two poor games. There have been points in their career where Anderson and Broad were diabolical, but perseverance got them through it. Compton has never proven he's anything more than a good county player.
I think Compton has been a stop gap kind of player who was never going to cement a permanent place on the side. I would definitely like to see Vince move up to three for the Pakistan series and someone like Borthwick come in. Ballance at five might be worth another go as well.
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Unchanged 12 for the last test so it looks like Compton stays for now. Wonder if they give Ball a go for Finn? Doubt they'll drop Woakes after that first innings spell of 3-9.
I'd definitely keep Finn in. He's had two poor Test matches, but he's a quality bowler and he needs to be persevered with.
Agree. Have you seen the 'England in the 90's' documentary on SKY? Many of those interviewed said it was the constant chopping and changing that undermined the confidence of certain players. Finn smacks me as the kind of player who could suffer a loss of confidence in those kind of circumstances.
Finn, except for one short spell, bowled some awful stuff in the last test, and it's wouldn't be "chopping and changing" it would be giving a player a debut at Test level in a game where he's not under massive pressure. I like Finn, but he's currently the weakest of our pace attack given the way Woakes bowled, there's got to be a time when the weakest in any position is dropped to give others a chance or we are not going to be able to move forward.
See also Compton, I'm a bit disappointed not to see him dropped for this Test, it's not like he's going to be the future of England cricket is it? Blood one of Lions.
Finn and Compton are completely different though. Finn is and has been a world class bowler, as recently as the tour of South Africa. Once he is in rhythm he is a devastating strike bowler, you don't discard that after two poor games. There have been points in their career where Anderson and Broad were diabolical, but perseverance got them through it. Compton has never proven he's anything more than a good county player.
The only thing I'd say against that is that Finn is slow right now (he should have been easily the quickest of the 4) so it really depends on what is causing that, if it's just purely lack of rhythm then maybe an extra week with his county might have been a better idea but carrying drinks would do him no good. Personally I would have gone with 'rested' and left him out of the 12 and called up borthwick as well. that gives a seamer and a spinner so we can suggest it's picking based on the track but it also gives us another middle order batsman so we can put some pressure on Compton as well.
I think it's definitely a rhythm thing with Finn, because his pace was fine in South Africa and last summer. Also given that the Test match is at Lords I'd imagine that'll give him a good opportunity to get his rhythm back.
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Finn should be sent back to his county until the first Pakistan Test, that would give him the chance to bowl a few overs, get a few wickets and get his rhythm back, if it is a confidence thing then getting another poor return while all around him including new boy Woakes are taking wickets isn't going to help.
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Finn should be sent back to his county until the first Pakistan Test, that would give him the chance to bowl a few overs, get a few wickets and get his rhythm back, if it is a confidence thing then getting another poor return while all around him including new boy Woakes are taking wickets isn't going to help.
Middlesex's next county game is at the end of June. I think it makes far more sense to play him in the Lord's Test.
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For those interested in Royal London Cup.
Notts are an amazing 278/0 from 33.4 overs
Lumb 135*
Wessels 125*
Against Northants
Shame no pictures through their live feed just commentary. Who knows what they will total.
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For those interested in Royal London Cup.
Notts are an amazing 278/0 from 33.4 overs
Lumb 135*
Wessels 125*
Against Northants
Shame no pictures through their live feed just commentary. Who knows what they will total.
That is quite an opening stand. They're now 343-1 in the 39th over. With ten overs to go They could get 450+. Lumb is 176 not out so if he sticks around things could be interesting.
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Pretty diabolical collapse on what looks a very easy batting wicket.
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As always never judge a wicket until both teams have had a bat. That said Compton going cheaply again has to go against him and it's frustrating that Root got squared up so badly by one. Thankfully Cook seems to have, as we hoped, recovered from his case of nervous 9900s.
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It always does a bit at Lord's on the first morning, but it does look like a good batting track. I usually reckon 3 down at lunch is about honours even, but with Sri Lanka's powder puff attack, England will be disappointed I think.
My mates and I are going for our annual visit tomorrow. Weather forecast is not quite as good as today but it should stay dry at least.
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Root's rubbish, send him back to Yorkshire.
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Where would we be without Alistair Cook? There isn't a single other opener in this country even close to the required standard for opening the batting for England in test matches.
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Well this is as predictable as it is rubbish. 3 down for hardly anything is par for the course with England is it not. Maybe time to swap Vince and Bairstow? Compton will be dropped after this test, too. Thankfully.
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Where would we be without Alistair Cook? There isn't a single other opener in this country even close to the required standard for opening the batting for England in test matches.
That's not fair on Hales, yes he's out cheap today but he's been very good this series and he's goot more than enough about him to make it as an international opener. Compton is the big problem, in terrible form for county and has carried that into this series, he really should've been dropped for this match.
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I like Hales, but he's got to be careful with the spinner. He's played some pretty loose shots to get out to Herath several times.
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Where would we be without Alistair Cook? There isn't a single other opener in this country even close to the required standard for opening the batting for England in test matches.
That's not fair on Hales, yes he's out cheap today but he's been very good this series and he's goot more than enough about him to make it as an international opener. Compton is the big problem, in terrible form for county and has carried that into this series, he really should've been dropped for this match.
For me Hales is a very good one-day player. I don't expect him to be around long as a test opener.
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Very harsh, he's applied himself well this series.
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Very harsh, he's applied himself well this series.
Sri Lanka are very poor opposition. If he scores runs against some better sides that changes things.
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I like Hales, but he's got to be careful with the spinner. He's played some pretty loose shots to get out to Herath several times.
I agree, he can be a bit inexperienced (and rash) at times but he has the ability, I find it strange that people are so willing to question that, seemingly because he's good in T20 and ODI
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Compton will be praying that he gets the opportunity to bat in the second innings. Somehow I doubt that we will need significant runs in the third innings so his chance has now gone.
He seems to have been beaten by his own mental preparation and the pressure that he appears to put himself under.
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Did anyone hear McCullum delivering the Cowdrey Spirit of Cricket Lecture on Monday? They replayed it today on TMS during the lunch interval.
He spoke very openly about his own battles with the spirit of the game before moving on to talk about the death of Phil Hughes and also his role in the Cairns match fixing trial. Pretty impressive stuff and he was less than complimentary about the ICC and their treatment of Lou Vincent.
Worth finding it on the BBC I-Player or on You Tube.
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Maybe time to swap Vince and Bairstow?
No, remember when they kept moving Root up and down the order, that didn't go well. Leave Bairstow exactly where he is, he's in the form of his life batting at five or six for Yorkshire and England, why bother moving him?
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Maybe time to swap Vince and Bairstow?
No, remember when they kept moving Root up and down the order, that didn't go well. Leave Bairstow exactly where he is, he's in the form of his life batting at five or six for Yorkshire and England, why bother moving him?
but the suggestion is to move him from 6/7 up to 5 so it's not moving him out the positions you've suggested. I'd support it, Vince to 3, Bairstow to 5 and either Buttler or Borthwick in at 6/7
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Must admit I confused Vince with Compyon as I'm so used to seeing peter having a go at Compton, he wasn't a fan of Bairstow either if I remember correctly! Anyway, leave him where he is for now, why not move Ali back up the order?
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Must admit I confused Vince with Compyon as I'm so used to seeing peter having a go at Compton, he wasn't a fan of Bairstow either if I remember correctly! Anyway, leave him where he is for now, why not move Ali back up the order?
That is another option, depends if we feel we need another dedicated bowler though. With Stokes, Ali and Woakes already in as genuine all-rounders and Borthwick the sensible addition who is yet another we could quite easily end up with Broad batting at 10 as part of a 6 man bowling attack when he has atest century (and 10 50s) to his name.
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Bairstow has had a bit of luck today but this is a hell of a knock and Ali/Woakes have done a really good job to build partnerships with him and push us towards a decent score here, given their form with the bat I think 300 is competitive and I'd back us to get there now.
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Bairstow is superb at the moment.
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Bairstow is superb at the moment.
He was superb all last season too.
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Bairstow is superb at the moment.
He was superb all last season too.
His keeping has improved but still needs work. He is a better keeper than he was but he's still a work in progress.
That said he's worth his place in the side as a batsman alone and it's a while since we've been in that position. The last keeper/batsman who would have got in the side based upon his batting alone was probably Alec Stewart.
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As an update, since the 1at January 2016, Bairstow averages 97.00
Awesome
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An average of 88.83 in the Championship last year isn't too shabby either.
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He's definitely had a year to remember but I'm still in the out jury in terms of him long-term as I think he is just having a golden period. I don't think he has the technique to get himself out of the inevitable difficult patch that he will face at some point. If he's still playing for England in 3 years he'll be probably breaking records, but I also doubt that it'd be as wicket-keeper. Given the frailty around our batting I'd be tempted to bring Buttler in, yes I know he has had his problems and go with something like:
Cook
Hales
Vince
Root
Bairstow
Buttler
Stokes
Ali
with 3 bowlers to follow. If Stokes is out Woakes comes in after Ali. I like Vince. I just think he needs to settle down a bit and try and work hard for some runs and then play his attacking game. Hales will get the Pakistan series and we'll see from there. his dismissal yesterday was ugly but is what we'll get from Hales every now and then. If he comes off, and again I doubt it, then that batting line-up could have the potential to match the Aussies of the late 80s and early 90s and the West Indies of a decade or so before that. Powerful and destructive.
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Borthwick is a better option than Buttler at the moment, especially given our tours in the winter.
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I really don't think so. not good enough a bowler - he needs to leave Durham for that - and I'd put him behind Buttler and maybe even have a look at Roy in the next taxi off the rank criteria.
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Well Borthwick is a better batsman than Buttler at the moment, so he'd be in as a batsman. His spin would just be a bonus to add into the mix for a few overs.
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He's definitely had a year to remember but I'm still in the out jury in terms of him long-term as I think he is just having a golden period. I don't think he has the technique to get himself out of the inevitable difficult patch that he will face at some point.
Bloody hell you're a hard man to please. He's completely altered his stance to deal with the short ball that used to be his problem, there's no pleasing some people!
As I've said before I only ever watch Yorkshire so haven't a clue who is out there that could play at Test level, i've said all along Jonny is good enough to play as a batsman for England and am now even more convinced he'll be in the side for a long time.
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Blowers was on about pigeons after just two overs and Tuffers is now singing.
Can tell that there's a bit of a lull in the game at the moment
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He's definitely had a year to remember but I'm still in the out jury in terms of him long-term as I think he is just having a golden period. I don't think he has the technique to get himself out of the inevitable difficult patch that he will face at some point.
Bloody hell you're a hard man to please. He's completely altered his stance to deal with the short ball that used to be his problem, there's no pleasing some people!
As I've said before I only ever watch Yorkshire so haven't a clue who is out there that could play at Test level, i've said all along Jonny is good enough to play as a batsman for England and am now even more convinced he'll be in the side for a long time.
Well he's playing like he's aiming to break Tendulkar's record so no complaints from me thus far. You have been banging his drum for a while and you have seen a lot more of him than i, and without Sky I really am basing what i see of him on very few highlights and following the games on cricinfo and the beeb.
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Listening to some of the old duffers at Headingley he isn't any good, then again nobody since Len Hutton,Herbert Sutcliffe or Fred Trueman has ever been any good!
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Listening to some of the old duffers at Headingley he isn't any good, then again nobody since Len Hutton,Herbert Sutcliffe or Fred Trueman has ever been any good!
Sounds like you've been talking to Geoffrey
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A good morning for England, I thought Woakes was on for a ton but I think he lost concentration and got out.
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Listening to some of the old duffers at Headingley he isn't any good, then again nobody since Len Hutton,Herbert Sutcliffe or Fred Trueman has ever been any good!
Sounds like you've been talking to Geoffrey
To be fair to him he's a big Bairstow fan.
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Listening to some of the old duffers at Headingley he isn't any good, then again nobody since Len Hutton,Herbert Sutcliffe or Fred Trueman has ever been any good!
Sounds like you've been talking to Geoffrey
To be fair to him he's a big Bairstow fan.
I think he may be his godfather and has stood by the family over the years since David Bairstow's suicide.
You notice that whenever Jonny gets to 50 or 100 and acknowledges the crowd, he always takes off his helmet and looks to the sky. It strikes me as a very genuine touch, albeit a highly personal one.
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Excellent morning so far.
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Listening to some of the old duffers at Headingley he isn't any good, then again nobody since Len Hutton,Herbert Sutcliffe or Fred Trueman has ever been any good!
Sounds like you've been talking to Geoffrey
To be fair to him he's a big Bairstow fan.
I think he may be his godfather and has stood by the family over the years since David Bairstow's suicide.
You notice that whenever Jonny gets to 50 or 100 and acknowledges the crowd, he always takes off his helmet and looks to the sky. It strikes me as a very genuine touch, albeit a highly personal one.
Did you read the interview with him I posted on here? Really moving interview, hadn't realised he was with his Mum and sister when they found his Dad's body. He always comes across really well in interviews, liked the way he put Mark Nicholas in his place yesterday when he mentioned the drop catch to him, "It's not my fault he dropped it".
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Listening to some of the old duffers at Headingley he isn't any good, then again nobody since Len Hutton,Herbert Sutcliffe or Fred Trueman has ever been any good!
Sounds like you've been talking to Geoffrey
To be fair to him he's a big Bairstow fan.
I think he may be his godfather and has stood by the family over the years since David Bairstow's suicide.
You notice that whenever Jonny gets to 50 or 100 and acknowledges the crowd, he always takes off his helmet and looks to the sky. It strikes me as a very genuine touch, albeit a highly personal one.
Did you read the interview with him I posted on here? Really moving interview, hadn't realised he was with his Mum and sister when they found his Dad's body. He always comes across really well in interviews, liked the way he put Mark Nicholas in his place yesterday when he mentioned the drop catch to him, "It's not my fault he dropped it".
There was a lovely picture I from this morning with Bairstow walking back in after practice and his Mum handed him a towel.
It really made me smile. It's lovely when top level sportsmen are just normal guys.
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He does seem a really nice, down to earth guy. Noticed his sister was at Lord's, his Mum works at Headingley, must be tough knowing how much his Dad loved cricket that he isn't there, he'd be very proud. Wouldn't be proud of that dropped catch though!
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We're in need of a wicket here, the game has gone very flat today.
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We'd have had one earlier if that lovely run machine Bairstow hadn't dropped a dolly off Woakes ;)
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Finn's bowling well.
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Great start for England this morning. Really pleased for Woakes, he was under pressure to take this chance when he came in for Stokes and he's really starting to look the part. Bowling superbly.
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Yep bowling very well.
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Finn's rhythm is coming back.
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The 3 wickets at the start were superb and then Finn got a good one followed by an absolute gift. If we can break this pair quickly I suspect we'll have a lead of over 100. Given the weather and Cook not being around I'd like us to try to score as quickly as possible once we're in to give us enough time to clean them up again.
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Sri Lanka don't handle cloudy conditions very well.
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Just how much of a golden arm has Woakes developed in this test, 2 wickets with the first ball of a spell and a third that Bairstow put down.
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Gah, that's an absolute stinker that got Root, not much you can do if one stays low like that.
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Vince has had a pretty horrid series.
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Compton too obviously - he'll be 33 this month and if you're going to have one old stager in the batting line up he's nowhere near as good as Bell.
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Compton has to go, like Ballance he's losing his wicket due to a technical flaw and he's too old to have time to fix it and come back.
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Such a shame Hales out for 94, but he's really impressed me this series. He worked on the issue he had in SA and has changed his game. A century obviously would have been nice, and deserved, but for me he's cemented his place as opener now.
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With a lead of 343 we're presumably batting on for Ali to get to 10, or us to get another 7 runs for 350.
Baffled.
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It's a balancing act. While Sri Lanka are highly unlikely to get to the target, 345 in 110 overs (there were 12 overs left in the day and 98 tomorrow because of the rain) is certainly not impossible. Much less and Sri Lanka could have been 60-0 at close needing only 250 or so to win in a day.
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It's a balancing act. While Sri Lanka are highly unlikely to get to the target, 345 in 110 overs (there were 12 overs left in the day and 98 tomorrow because of the rain) is certainly not impossible. Much less and Sri Lanka could have been 60-0 at close needing only 250 or so to win in a day.
Obviously time will tell, but with the weather about, the difficulty in taking wickets and the fact that only twice in the last 30 years has a side scored more than 310 in the 4th innings indicates to me that it was a return to Straussian caution.
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It's a balancing act. While Sri Lanka are highly unlikely to get to the target, 345 in 110 overs (there were 12 overs left in the day and 98 tomorrow because of the rain) is certainly not impossible. Much less and Sri Lanka could have been 60-0 at close needing only 250 or so to win in a day.
Obviously time will tell, but with the weather about, the difficulty in taking wickets and the fact that only twice in the last 30 years has a side scored more than 310 in the 4th innings indicates to me that it was a return to Straussian caution.
Actually it's 14 times see here (http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Records/Test/Overall/Team/Highest_Fourth_Innings_Totals_To_Win.html) and 8 of those have come since 2000, which shows that with the higher run rates in modern Test cricket it will become more common to see 300+ run chases.
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It's a balancing act. While Sri Lanka are highly unlikely to get to the target, 345 in 110 overs (there were 12 overs left in the day and 98 tomorrow because of the rain) is certainly not impossible. Much less and Sri Lanka could have been 60-0 at close needing only 250 or so to win in a day.
Obviously time will tell, but with the weather about, the difficulty in taking wickets and the fact that only twice in the last 30 years has a side scored more than 310 in the 4th innings indicates to me that it was a return to Straussian caution.
I missed out "at Lords", which was particularly relevant! Though not as relevant as the shitty weather. Still think the declaration was over cautious.
Actually it's 14 times see here (http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Records/Test/Overall/Team/Highest_Fourth_Innings_Totals_To_Win.html) and 8 of those have come since 2000, which shows that with the higher run rates in modern Test cricket it will become more common to see 300+ run chases.
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Should a captain make a decision that important basing it on the weather forecast? I think he has to plan on there being a full 90 (or 98 in this case) overs played and 310 in 98 overs is gettable especially on a pitch that was still playing reasonably well.
We are going to see more and more successful 300+ run chases, it's the way the game is going.
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But they'd already won the series. Who cares? Live a little.
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No way, grind them into the ground.
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Nah. Do what you can to win. It's a spectator sport.
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Our record in the final test of a series where we're winning is poor. It's the complete opposite to our record in the final test of a losing series where we always seemed to win against the Aussies when the Ashes had gone again.
We should press for victory every time.
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First ODI.
1 Jason Roy, 2 Alex Hales, 3 Joe Root, 4 Eoin Morgan (capt), 5 Jos Buttler (wk), 6 Jonny Bairstow, 7 Moeen Ali, 8 Chris Woakes, 9 Adil Rashid, 10 David Willey, 11 Liam Plunkett
No Finn or Jordan, two spinners
England won toss and chose to bowl.
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I'd like to see Tymal Mills get involved with ODIs, his back should hold up for 10 overs.
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SL rattling along but losing wickets.
56-3 sfater 8.4 overs - two for Willey and one for Woakes.
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Plunkett is throwing down an over full of utter filth here.
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I'd like to see Tymal Mills get involved with ODIs, his back should hold up for 10 overs.
Saw him in a T20 a few weeks ago and he was impressive and very quick (think he was clocked at over 90 mph). In the interview after the game, he said that sadly 4 overs is all he can really manage, although he hoped to play in a 50 over game at some point. Real shame, as we don't produce genuine quick bowlers very often if at all.
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Yet another Woakes wicket with the first ball of a spell, that's becoming a fantastic habit this summer.
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That's a shocking start to the reply compounded by the worst review ever!
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17 for 3......Root has gone for 2
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Been a long time, but Rooty is going through a bit of a slump.
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30 for 4.......Bairstow has gone for 3
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This is a pretty mentally poor display at the moment.
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Been a long time, but Rooty is going through a bit of a slump.
Send him back to Yorkshire, Gillespie will sort him out.
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It's probably a reasonable shout.
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This has been a brilliant turnaround by Buttler and Woakes.
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Shame that Buttler deserved a century.
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I think they've got that wrong, I don't think you can give someone as out if you can't be sure that it's a legal delivery and you can't be sure of that one.
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14 off the last over for England to win
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Madness ;D
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Great six off the last ball to tie the match.
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Ha ha ha!
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Unbelievable! What a game.
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This isn't the benefit of hindsight but I'd have sent Plunkett in ahead of Willey, he's been in good form with the bat this season.
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what a brilliant finish to the match, that swung backwards and forwards massively in the last 10 overs.
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Brilliant fight back by England! Woakes, Buttler and Plunkett heroes!!
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As a Bear I am biased but Woakes has done fantastically since coming back into the England set up - am delighted for him.
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Woakes has stepped up a level this summer, he bowled really well and that's some batting performance. Buttler is becoming mr reliable in our ODI middle order and I agree, that's a great cameo by Plunkett at the end. Some credit for Morgan as well, he came in when we were in danger of failing to make 100 and the partnership with Buttler whilst cut short was key to giving us the belief to get back into it. Everyone else failed massively with the bat and they need to respond, Root in particular was disappointing, he's too good to give away his wicket like that.
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Snatched a tie even though most of our usually reliable batsmen got themselves out, bodes well for the character of the team.
Bowled decently as well, Willey and Woakes especially.
Looking forward to Friday.
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Impressive batting line up when Rashid was the number 11.
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Impressive batting line up when Rashid was the number 11.
yep, just a shame so many of them just lost the plot, that team, on that pitch, should have been capable of 350+ so stumbling to 286 to draw it shows just how poorly we played in general, with only massive contributions from Buttler and Woakes (and to a lesser extent Plunkett and Morgan) stopped us from being utterly humiliated.
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Yes it was poor from a few batsmen, but hopefully a blip in our otherwise upward curve that we've been on in this format since the World Cup debacle. It's unusual for us to throw so many wickets away like that.
Root's form is a little worrying, but he oozes class and will come back.
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A thrashing for Sri Lanka! Hales and Roy devastating! A ton a piece in an easy win for England!
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Super effort.
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Excellent performance and win. After years of dross, I never w really enjoy watching England in limited overs cricket. Didn't go, but it looked a great atmosphere at Edgbaston.
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I know he didn't get any wickets and I only saw a bit but Chris Woakes 0-36 including last over from 8 overs is excellent. Hopefully he will continue to prove a few people wrong
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Excellent performance and win. After years of dross, I never w really enjoy watching England in limited overs cricket. Didn't go, but it looked a great atmosphere at Edgbaston.
It was a great atmosphere severely fuelled by alcohol.
I have never, ever been anywhere that has had a greater proportion of people very, very drunk.
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I think Roy might well make a good Test player.
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I'm not convinced by Hales so doesn't hurt to see Roy in good form. I'd also like to have a look at any other wicket-keepers that we have because i'm really not sure about Bairstow behind the stumps where he is barely county championship level. Given that we're touring India in the winter we really should be starting to look at wicket keepers who can bat, not the other way round. Alternatively, if England are sticking with Bairstow then Buttler shouldn't be wicket keeper in any forms of the game when playing for England until such time Bairstow is competent enough to stake his claims based on his ability behind the stumps.
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I'm not convinced by Hales so doesn't hurt to see Roy in good form. I'd also like to have a look at any other wicket-keepers that we have because i'm really not sure about Bairstow behind the stumps where he is barely county championship level. Given that we're touring India in the winter we really should be starting to look at wicket keepers who can bat, not the other way round. Alternatively, if England are sticking with Bairstow then Buttler shouldn't be wicket keeper in any forms of the game when playing for England until such time Bairstow is competent enough to stake his claims based on his ability behind the stumps.
Hales has just had a very good series, dropping him would send a terrible signal. As I've said before I push Bairstow to 5 as a batsman and bring Buttler back in at 7 and behind the stumps. Then you pick between Vince and Roy and maybe a few others at 3.
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Not convinced by Hales? He's been excellent this summer.
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I'm not convinced by Hales so doesn't hurt to see Roy in good form. I'd also like to have a look at any other wicket-keepers that we have because i'm really not sure about Bairstow behind the stumps where he is barely county championship level. Given that we're touring India in the winter we really should be starting to look at wicket keepers who can bat, not the other way round. Alternatively, if England are sticking with Bairstow then Buttler shouldn't be wicket keeper in any forms of the game when playing for England until such time Bairstow is competent enough to stake his claims based on his ability behind the stumps.
Hales has just had a very good series, dropping him would send a terrible signal. As I've said before I push Bairstow to 5 as a batsman and bring Buttler back in at 7 and behind the stumps. Then you pick between Vince and Roy and maybe a few others at 3.
Nasser Hussain was saying exactly that on SKY the other day. There is also Sam Billings as well.
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I'm not convinced by Hales so doesn't hurt to see Roy in good form. I'd also like to have a look at any other wicket-keepers that we have because i'm really not sure about Bairstow behind the stumps where he is barely county championship level. Given that we're touring India in the winter we really should be starting to look at wicket keepers who can bat, not the other way round. Alternatively, if England are sticking with Bairstow then Buttler shouldn't be wicket keeper in any forms of the game when playing for England until such time Bairstow is competent enough to stake his claims based on his ability behind the stumps.
Hales has just had a very good series, dropping him would send a terrible signal. As I've said before I push Bairstow to 5 as a batsman and bring Buttler back in at 7 and behind the stumps. Then you pick between Vince and Roy and maybe a few others at 3.
Nasser Hussain was saying exactly that on SKY the other day. There is also Sam Billings as well.
Billings would be my fall back if Buttler doesn't show better form than before he was dropped.
3 is where I think our options are a little limited. There aren't many people in the championship who are screaming out for a call up as a top order batsman. That's the main reason that I'm gutted that Mo didn't take his chance up there. If we could've got him batting with fluency near the top then we open up the option to keep the 4 quicks but have either an extra spinner if we're not sure about the pitch, or an extra batsman in the middle order or a 5th seamer but still have a spin option to rush through some overs if needed.
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I'm not convinced by Hales so doesn't hurt to see Roy in good form. I'd also like to have a look at any other wicket-keepers that we have because i'm really not sure about Bairstow behind the stumps where he is barely county championship level. Given that we're touring India in the winter we really should be starting to look at wicket keepers who can bat, not the other way round. Alternatively, if England are sticking with Bairstow then Buttler shouldn't be wicket keeper in any forms of the game when playing for England until such time Bairstow is competent enough to stake his claims based on his ability behind the stumps.
Hales has just had a very good series, dropping him would send a terrible signal. As I've said before I push Bairstow to 5 as a batsman and bring Buttler back in at 7 and behind the stumps. Then you pick between Vince and Roy and maybe a few others at 3.
Nasser Hussain was saying exactly that on SKY the other day. There is also Sam Billings as well.
Billings would be my fall back if Buttler doesn't show better form than before he was dropped.
3 is where I think our options are a little limited. There aren't many people in the championship who are screaming out for a call up as a top order batsman. That's the main reason that I'm gutted that Mo didn't take his chance up there. If we could've got him batting with fluency near the top then we open up the option to keep the 4 quicks but have either an extra spinner if we're not sure about the pitch, or an extra batsman in the middle order or a 5th seamer but still have a spin option to rush through some overs if needed.
I've heard people call for Borthwick to be given a chance at three, but I would think Vince is next cab off the rank for that position at the moment. Stokes has got to come back in to the side as well.
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Super knock by Roy again.
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Super knock by Roy again.
Pity he didn't take Robin Smith's record for the highest ODI score by an England player, the knock deserved it.
We've come a long way since the World Cup and I think that credit should be given to Strauss for sticking with Morgan who strikes me as the perfect captain for this group of players.
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Super knock by Roy again.
Pity he didn't take Robin Smith's record for the highest ODI score by an England player, the knock deserved it.
We've come a long way since the World Cup and I think that credit should be given to Strauss for sticking with Morgan who strikes me as the perfect captain for this group of players.
Agree VFL. England are now a good side to watch in a format of the game which they had struggled in for years. We wouldn't have got near that total in years gone by, bug there is a new mentality now. Still not sure out bowling attack in that format is top class, but we look a good side.
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i just don't think ales has got the technique against good swing bowling or spinners. If he proves me wrong against Pakistan and India then fair play.
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I didn't want to start a 2017 thread, but international fixtures out and looks like a busy summer for the England boys - first ODI 5th May last ODI 29th September - yes 29th September !
Overall 10 ODI's plus Champions Trophy (ie: min 3 hopefully 5 more), 4 T20's and 7 Tests...before trotting off to Oz in late October to retain the ashes. Good Luck Joe Root, Alex Hales, Jonny Bairstow and anyone else who plays all 3 formats........
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To be fair it feels like a 29th September right now.
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i just don't think ales has got the technique against good swing bowling or spinners. If he proves me wrong against Pakistan and India then fair play.
I agree with you, people keep talking about his runs against a very, very mediocre Sri Lanka seam attack as if that is the benchmark. They barely had anyone over 6 foot, who could bowl above 80MPH or swing the ball. If he has a good series against one or two of the top nations (Australia, SA, Pakistan, India) then that is the time to be convinced by him.
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Are those bananas in the crowd at the SWALEC the same ones that were at Edgbaston.
Surely they would have gone off by now!!!
149/3 27 gone
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Superb performance today, excellent with the bat getting well over par, solid in the field and the bowling is excellent. I really like Willey and Woakes as the openers.
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There are a couple of fairly important changes coming here - http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci-icc/content/story/1031741.html
So the DRS zone changes to be the entire stumps not middle of leg to middle of off, I understand the need for umpire's call but this seems much fairer to the bowlers now.
After they mention trials of near instant replays to allow the third umpire to call no-balls, that is a much needed change that I support fully. The sheer number of deliveries where bowlers are overstepping has forced them to act.
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Good to see England close a series ruthlessly.
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Just watching the T20 now. Such a shame Mills has had such injury problems as bowlers with his pace don't come around very often in English cricket. The fact he is a left armer as well makes it even more of a loss.
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Woakes left out of the T20 match against Sri Lanka? A joke on current form. Jordan getting hammered.
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Jordan has been an excellent death bowler late for England of late so I get why he plays. I'm not sure Woakes is dropped, as opposed to them looking at players. It's really exciting to see Mills and whilst it's a real shame that his back can't stand up to First Class cricket I'm hoping he could potentially get up the ODI game at some point.
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Woakes is a better all rounder than Jordan. End of.
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Rashid and Dawson bowling very well here.
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Woakes is a better all rounder than Jordan. End of.
Yes he is, but in this format Jordan has a good record and would almost certainly be in even if Woakes was. I suspect Woakes has been rested so they can take a look at Mills, which is fair enough, he has a huge amount of potential, just a shame he's limited to T20. In much the same way Ali has been rested to allow Dawson in (which has worked).
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Rashid and Dawson bowling very well here.
Worked really well as a partnership, the pressure from Rashid meant SL felt they had to chase runs against Dawson which kept the wickets ticking.
I like Mills, he's raw but the pace and line is there, I'd keep him around the team, could be a huge asset.
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Mills can be excellent. I'm coming round to Daggers on commentary and I like Zaltzman as the stats man.
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After the criticism of Jordan, that's why he's playing.
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I wasn't a fan of Jordan, but he convinced me at the T20 WC
His death bowling has really developed and is excellent in this form of the game
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140 looks well short.
This could be over quickly if Jos and Roy get going.
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Mills can be excellent. I'm coming round to Daggers on commentary and I like Zaltzman as the stats man.
Daggers talks sense but I find his voice very annoying.
Andy Z. knows his cricket so should be interesting to listen to.
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As I say on Jordan, his form in T20 means he's firmly established in the side. I'm really glad that we've had the confidence to give 2 debuts in this game, both showed a lot of promise.
Add Woakes, Willey and Mo and we have 8 very good T20 bowlers now.
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Grumble, grumble, pointless quick cricket match, grumble, grumble, taking five Yorkshire players, grumble, grumble, proper cricket at Scarborough, grumble, grumble.
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Vince isn't good enough. Why isn't Root in front of Vince? Root is miles better in all forms of Cricket than Vince.
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Joe Root is one of the best batsmen in the world, as I said earlier it's not a case of dropping them. It's looking at options. Vince also will be a very good player.
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Let's just be quiet and reflect in the glory of the best short format batsman in the world (I know that has huge potential for mockers). There's something deeply satisfying in watching Buttler smash a 6 as if it's the easiest thing in the world.
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I think that Dawid Malan should have played ahead of Vince. I see little point in picking someone in the squad from left field in a one off match, if you're then not going to play them.
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This is another battering.
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I think that Dawid Malan should have played ahead of Vince. I see little point in picking someone in the squad from left field in a one off match, if you're then not going to play them.
It's a balancing act really, just getting someone training with a team that are doing so well can be hugely beneficial and I think Vince has done enough to deserve the chances he's been given this series.
This is another battering.
win by 8 wickets with 15 remaining really doesn't do it justice, that was a bit embarrassing for SL. Can't say I'm upset, I've never liked them as a team and after their last tour in England sending them home having destroyed them in all formats feels like closure.
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A couple of points.
With the amount of Cricket to be played over the next 15 months or so I think we are going to see plenty of squad rotation in all forms of international Cricket. We need to make sure that the players are fresh and ready to do battle when it matters.
My other point is that I've been surprised at how poor Sri Lanka have been across all three formats. Yes they've lost some quality players through retirements, but they've been like a rabbit caught in headlights at times. They were always an annoying almost snidey side but through all of that I loved watching their best players.
The Pakistan series will be a whole lot harder.
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Buttler was very lucky yesterday, big outside edge behind not given when he was on about 5. He did go on to make them pay, however.
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I did not expect Ballance to get a call up.
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I did not expect Ballance to get a call up.
I don't think anybody did, he hasn't had a great season until the century against Middlesex.
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Keith Barker never seems to get mentioned as a possible call up - he is a wonderful player for us.
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I did not expect Ballance to get a call up.
I don't think anybody did, he hasn't had a great season until the century against Middlesex.
It's an odd one, if he's struggling with the same technical issue that cost him his place originally then Amir is probably the last person he'd want to face.
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There's plenty of coverage of the return of Mohammad Amir to the Pakistan test side. He's likely to play in the Lords test which starts on Thursday, ironically he's returning to the scene of his crime.
So fellow H&V'ers should he be allowed to play?
For me, he should have been banned for life from the game. Match fixing is wrong and he knew the risks when he joined the other match fixers such as Salman Butt.
One of the arguments put forward by the let him play "brigade" is that he was only 18 when he got caught in a tabloid sting. I just think that at 18 you know the difference between right and wrong.
There's also the question of ICC double standards. Lou Vincent, the Kiwi bowler received 11 life bans for admitting his part in match fixing. He cooperated with the fixing enquiry from the start and plead guilty. Why did they throw the book at him yet let Amir back in after serving his ban? Match fixing is match fixing and Amir should have got the same life ban.
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No, he should never have played again.
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There's plenty of coverage of the return of Mohammad Amir to the Pakistan test side. He's likely to play in the Lords test which starts on Thursday, ironically he's returning to the scene of his crime.
So fellow H&V'ers should he be allowed to play?
For me, he should have been banned for life from the game. Match fixing is wrong and he knew the risks when he joined the other match fixers such as Salman Butt.
One of the arguments put forward by the let him play "brigade" is that he was only 18 when he got caught in a tabloid sting. I just think that at 18 you know the difference between right and wrong.
There's also the question of ICC double standards. Lou Vincent, the Kiwi bowler received 11 life bans for admitting his part in match fixing. He cooperated with the fixing enquiry from the start and plead guilty. Why did they throw the book at him yet let Amir back in after serving his ban? Match fixing is match fixing and Amir should have got the same life ban.
He was 18 and was talked into it by his captain and the senior bowler in the side and, by all accounts, was told that all the players did it every now and then as a way of earning a bit of extra money. I think he was put into an impossible position by people who he trusted and he shouldn't be denied his entire career because of it.
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There's plenty of coverage of the return of Mohammad Amir to the Pakistan test side. He's likely to play in the Lords test which starts on Thursday, ironically he's returning to the scene of his crime.
So fellow H&V'ers should he be allowed to play?
For me, he should have been banned for life from the game. Match fixing is wrong and he knew the risks when he joined the other match fixers such as Salman Butt.
One of the arguments put forward by the let him play "brigade" is that he was only 18 when he got caught in a tabloid sting. I just think that at 18 you know the difference between right and wrong.
There's also the question of ICC double standards. Lou Vincent, the Kiwi bowler received 11 life bans for admitting his part in match fixing. He cooperated with the fixing enquiry from the start and plead guilty. Why did they throw the book at him yet let Amir back in after serving his ban? Match fixing is match fixing and Amir should have got the same life ban.
He was 18 and was talked into it by his captain and the senior bowler in the side and, by all accounts, was told that all the players did it every now and then as a way of earning a bit of extra money. I think he was put into an impossible position by people who he trusted and he shouldn't be denied his entire career because of it.
Lou Vincent was a batsman not a bowler, but apart from that i agree, the penalty should be consistent for all.
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There's a very good article by Jonathan Liew on the Telegraph website on this.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2016/07/12/redemption-of-mohammad-amir-is-an-enlightened-cause-for-celebrat/
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There's plenty of coverage of the return of Mohammad Amir to the Pakistan test side. He's likely to play in the Lords test which starts on Thursday, ironically he's returning to the scene of his crime.
So fellow H&V'ers should he be allowed to play?
For me, he should have been banned for life from the game. Match fixing is wrong and he knew the risks when he joined the other match fixers such as Salman Butt.
One of the arguments put forward by the let him play "brigade" is that he was only 18 when he got caught in a tabloid sting. I just think that at 18 you know the difference between right and wrong.
There's also the question of ICC double standards. Lou Vincent, the Kiwi bowler received 11 life bans for admitting his part in match fixing. He cooperated with the fixing enquiry from the start and plead guilty. Why did they throw the book at him yet let Amir back in after serving his ban? Match fixing is match fixing and Amir should have got the same life ban.
He was 18 and was talked into it by his captain and the senior bowler in the side and, by all accounts, was told that all the players did it every now and then as a way of earning a bit of extra money. I think he was put into an impossible position by people who he trusted and he shouldn't be denied his entire career because of it.
Lou Vincent was a batsman not a bowler, but apart from that i agree, the penalty should be consistent for all.
I made no mention of Vincent, I was referring to Butt and Asif.
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I was referring to the post you responded to Paul, not yours.
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Ah ok, I thought the senior bowler bit might have caused some confusion somewhere.
I think the other key difference is that Vincent admitted to it when he was pretty much retired anyway, Amir was 18 so giving them the same sentence would have automatically been much harsher on Amir. On balance I think they've got this spot on. Where I think there is a major argument for life bans is doping and drug cheats because whilst the cheating might have stopped it's almost impossible to accurately judge the long term effects so even once they're clean it's impossible to be certain that they're not benefitting from cheating. Match/Spot fixing is a financial crime and should be treated as such and lead to a criminal record, but it doesn't need additional punishment on the sporting side as there are no performance affecting consequences.
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Aamir and co conned a lot of spectators out of a lot of money thinking they were watching a Test match where two teams were focussed on winning, instead over 25% of one team were more interested in making extra money at any cost to themselves and the integrity of the sport.
They say time is a great healer, but something doesn't sit right about this guy steaming in tomorrow watched on by 30,000 at Lords and hundreds of thousands around the world. I'm pretty sure several of the England batsmen will be a bit more aggrieved at getting out to him too, rather than other bowlers, I expect them to feel a bit 'cheated', like when you get given out to a no-ball or adjudged LBW when you've hit it.
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My view is that he was given a punishment, he's served that punishment and therefore time to move on. I'm far more prepared to be lenient with him, because of his age at the time and the influence of older players on him. Now I think we should be looking at life bans moving forward, because this case is high profile enough and education should have been improved.
Cricket needs talented bowlers and Amir is immensely talented, it's time to move on and let him play.
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My view is that he was given a punishment, he's served that punishment and therefore time to move on. I'm far more prepared to be lenient with him, because of his age at the time and the influence of older players on him. Now I think we should be looking at life bans moving forward, because this case is high profile enough and education should have been improved.
Cricket needs talented bowlers and Amir is immensely talented, it's time to move on and let him play.
Totally agree with this. Looking forward to Test match at Edgbaston to see him perform.
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Pakistan have won the toss and are batting.
That is a good toss to win so we need to capitalise on the favourable day one conditions.
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First blood to England...Bear Mr Woakes striking in his 2nd over
Masood ct Bairstow b Woakes 7
Pakistan 38/1 12.2
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Woakes 2/9 now
51/2
Hafeez Ct Bairstow b Woakes 40
Rapidly becoming indispensable for England.
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Very good from Woakes. We need to limit Pakistan here, because their bowling attack is strong.
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My view is that he was given a punishment, he's served that punishment and therefore time to move on. I'm far more prepared to be lenient with him, because of his age at the time and the influence of older players on him. Now I think we should be looking at life bans moving forward, because this case is high profile enough and education should have been improved.
Cricket needs talented bowlers and Amir is immensely talented, it's time to move on and let him play.
Agree with this Paul. If anything is going to be criticised, it should be the rules. As the rules stand, he has served his ban and is available for selection again. As an England supporter, although I would be sympathetic if one of our players was in that particular situation (given his age etc.) I would feel he had let his country down and would not want to see him playing international cricket for us again. Would have no qualms with them playing county cricket and earning a living out of the game though. I accept that the Pakistanis didn't feel that way and have picked him again, which they are perfectly entitled to do.
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Blowers is on fine form. Sounds like he may have had a sherry already
Also, good to hear Ed Smith. I rate him as a commentator
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I rate Finn but he's starting to frustrate me. He's out of rhythm completely, but I can't see any particular reason why.
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I think my issue is bowlers who can't grind out a good spell when they're not in form. It's alright looking sparkling when you're in rhythm, but it's how you do when things aren't in your favour that defines you. Finn is increasingly looking like he can't grind a spell out.
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I think my issue is bowlers who can't grind out a good spell when they're not in form. It's alright looking sparkling when you're in rhythm, but it's how you do when things aren't in your favour that defines you. Finn is increasingly looking like he can't grind a spell out.
I've been of that opinion for a while, I suspect he'll be out of the team for the next test on the back of it, I just don't see how you could justify him ahead of stokes and woakes (ignoring jimmy and broad of course).
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If Anderson and Stokes are fit for the next teat then Finn will be out.
Woakes was easily our best bowler today, it would be nice to see him get on the honours board tomorrow.
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282-6 I guess about an even day all said. They don't have much batting left so keep Misbah in check and we could limit them to 350ish. If so we then need some big runs and to aim for 450+ really.
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282-6 I guess about an even day all said. They don't have much batting left so keep Misbah in check and we could limit them to 350ish. If so we then need some big runs and to aim for 450+ really.
Really hard to tell until both sides have batted. I am a little concerned about our top order, particularly as the Pakistanis look to have a good bowling attack.
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www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/36798903
Disturbing news with regard to Michael Carberry who missed recent game with Bears due to feeling unwell.
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Fuck.
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Hampshire statement
www.aegasbowl.com/cricket/news/carberry-club-statement-2016/
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I wish him well.
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Hampshire statement
www.aegasbowl.com/cricket/news/carberry-club-statement-2016/
That link doesn't appear to be working, doesn't say a great deal more than the BBC statement.
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282-6 I guess about an even day all said. They don't have much batting left so keep Misbah in check and we could limit them to 350ish. If so we then need some big runs and to aim for 450+ really.
Really hard to tell until both sides have batted. I am a little concerned about our top order, particularly as the Pakistanis look to have a good bowling attack.
True but this is Lords and the 2nd day is usually the easiest part of the match here, after that it either goes flat and you get a bore draw or it breaks up and day 5 is a bitch.
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There's plenty of coverage of the return of Mohammad Amir to the Pakistan test side. He's likely to play in the Lords test which starts on Thursday, ironically he's returning to the scene of his crime.
So fellow H&V'ers should he be allowed to play?
For me, he should have been banned for life from the game. Match fixing is wrong and he knew the risks when he joined the other match fixers such as Salman Butt.
One of the arguments put forward by the let him play "brigade" is that he was only 18 when he got caught in a tabloid sting. I just think that at 18 you know the difference between right and wrong.
There's also the question of ICC double standards. Lou Vincent, the Kiwi bowler received 11 life bans for admitting his part in match fixing. He cooperated with the fixing enquiry from the start and plead guilty. Why did they throw the book at him yet let Amir back in after serving his ban? Match fixing is match fixing and Amir should have got the same life ban.
He was 18 and was talked into it by his captain and the senior bowler in the side and, by all accounts, was told that all the players did it every now and then as a way of earning a bit of extra money. I think he was put into an impossible position by people who he trusted and he shouldn't be denied his entire career because of it.
Disagree. He's at the age of criminal responsibility and knows the difference between right and wrong. The argument about everyone else doing it doesn't stand up otherwise it wouldn't be done in secret. Yes he's paid he's due but now he should be banned for life. Zero tolerance. He's sorry because he was caught he didn't own up to anything. Should be banned with no come back.
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282-6 I guess about an even day all said. They don't have much batting left so keep Misbah in check and we could limit them to 350ish. If so we then need some big runs and to aim for 450+ really.
Really hard to tell until both sides have batted. I am a little concerned about our top order, particularly as the Pakistanis look to have a good bowling attack.
True but this is Lords and the 2nd day is usually the easiest part of the match here, after that it either goes flat and you get a bore draw or it breaks up and day 5 is a bitch.
Seeing as the have a genuine world class leg spinner in their side, let's hope that is not the case! Should be a good series.
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282-6 I guess about an even day all said. They don't have much batting left so keep Misbah in check and we could limit them to 350ish. If so we then need some big runs and to aim for 450+ really.
Really hard to tell until both sides have batted. I am a little concerned about our top order, particularly as the Pakistanis look to have a good bowling attack.
True but this is Lords and the 2nd day is usually the easiest part of the match here, after that it either goes flat and you get a bore draw or it breaks up and day 5 is a bitch.
Seeing as the have a genuine world class leg spinner in their side, let's hope that is not the case! Should be a good series.
That's why I think we need to see them off quick and then get as big a lead as possible.
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There's plenty of coverage of the return of Mohammad Amir to the Pakistan test side. He's likely to play in the Lords test which starts on Thursday, ironically he's returning to the scene of his crime.
So fellow H&V'ers should he be allowed to play?
For me, he should have been banned for life from the game. Match fixing is wrong and he knew the risks when he joined the other match fixers such as Salman Butt.
One of the arguments put forward by the let him play "brigade" is that he was only 18 when he got caught in a tabloid sting. I just think that at 18 you know the difference between right and wrong.
There's also the question of ICC double standards. Lou Vincent, the Kiwi bowler received 11 life bans for admitting his part in match fixing. He cooperated with the fixing enquiry from the start and plead guilty. Why did they throw the book at him yet let Amir back in after serving his ban? Match fixing is match fixing and Amir should have got the same life ban.
He was 18 and was talked into it by his captain and the senior bowler in the side and, by all accounts, was told that all the players did it every now and then as a way of earning a bit of extra money. I think he was put into an impossible position by people who he trusted and he shouldn't be denied his entire career because of it.
Disagree. He's at the age of criminal responsibility and knows the difference between right and wrong. The argument about everyone else doing it doesn't stand up otherwise it wouldn't be done in secret. Yes he's paid he's due but now he should be banned for life. Zero tolerance. He's sorry because he was caught he didn't own up to anything. Should be banned with no come back.
I just think that's overly harsh, as I said before what he did was a criminal offence and he has served a criminal sentence for it, that should be enough. If he does it again then a longer prison sentence and a lifetime ban. I think Butt is the one who gets off lightly in this as he clearly manipulated a very vulnerable young man into doing his dirty work for him and yet they both get the same punishment, that's not right for me.
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There's plenty of coverage of the return of Mohammad Amir to the Pakistan test side. He's likely to play in the Lords test which starts on Thursday, ironically he's returning to the scene of his crime.
So fellow H&V'ers should he be allowed to play?
For me, he should have been banned for life from the game. Match fixing is wrong and he knew the risks when he joined the other match fixers such as Salman Butt.
One of the arguments put forward by the let him play "brigade" is that he was only 18 when he got caught in a tabloid sting. I just think that at 18 you know the difference between right and wrong.
There's also the question of ICC double standards. Lou Vincent, the Kiwi bowler received 11 life bans for admitting his part in match fixing. He cooperated with the fixing enquiry from the start and plead guilty. Why did they throw the book at him yet let Amir back in after serving his ban? Match fixing is match fixing and Amir should have got the same life ban.
He was 18 and was talked into it by his captain and the senior bowler in the side and, by all accounts, was told that all the players did it every now and then as a way of earning a bit of extra money. I think he was put into an impossible position by people who he trusted and he shouldn't be denied his entire career because of it.
Disagree. He's at the age of criminal responsibility and knows the difference between right and wrong. The argument about everyone else doing it doesn't stand up otherwise it wouldn't be done in secret. Yes he's paid he's due but now he should be banned for life. Zero tolerance. He's sorry because he was caught he didn't own up to anything. Should be banned with no come back.
I just think that's overly harsh, as I said before what he did was a criminal offence and he has served a criminal sentence for it, that should be enough. If he does it again then a longer prison sentence and a lifetime ban. I think Butt is the one who gets off lightly in this as he clearly manipulated a very vulnerable young man into doing his dirty work for him and yet they both get the same punishment, that's not right for me.
Was listening to a debate about it on 5 Live the other day. Amir played for the same domestic side in Pakistan as Butt and the other one involved (who's name escapes me), so was probably even more influenced by them. We can think of the players what we want, but the authorities are the ones who have allowed him to play again with the length of the fan, so they should be criticised as well.
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Lets get the facts straight first guys, it wasn't match fixing - it was spot fixing. Bowling a no ball in a certain over.
I'm not trying to belittle what he did, but its very different from say a boxer throwing a match, or for a goalkeeper in football deliberately allowing a goal. He bowled a no ball on purpose which doesn't change the outcome of the game.
He was asked by his captain to do this at the age of 18. I think it would be very harsh if one of the most talented bowlers in the world had to face a life time ban for this. He has learned from his mistake and missed probably a 3rd of his career in the process. That's massive punishment. The other 2 Butt and Asif were at an age where a 5 year ban meant the end of their career anyway - so for those 2 you could say it was a lifetime ban. But they should have known better being experienced pros.
Im sure if he had been asked to deliberately bowl poorly or allow the opposition to win he would not have done this for his captain.
I for one am glad he's back as hes an exceptional talent, just wish Misbah was the captain then or Inzi - Would not have happened.
On a side note, why on earth do betting companies allow for stupid bets like offering odds for a no ball in the next over, or what time the first throw in in football will be.
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Sad news about Michael Carberry :(
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There's plenty of coverage of the return of Mohammad Amir to the Pakistan test side. He's likely to play in the Lords test which starts on Thursday, ironically he's returning to the scene of his crime.
So fellow H&V'ers should he be allowed to play?
For me, he should have been banned for life from the game. Match fixing is wrong and he knew the risks when he joined the other match fixers such as Salman Butt.
One of the arguments put forward by the let him play "brigade" is that he was only 18 when he got caught in a tabloid sting. I just think that at 18 you know the difference between right and wrong.
There's also the question of ICC double standards. Lou Vincent, the Kiwi bowler received 11 life bans for admitting his part in match fixing. He cooperated with the fixing enquiry from the start and plead guilty. Why did they throw the book at him yet let Amir back in after serving his ban? Match fixing is match fixing and Amir should have got the same life ban.
He was 18 and was talked into it by his captain and the senior bowler in the side and, by all accounts, was told that all the players did it every now and then as a way of earning a bit of extra money. I think he was put into an impossible position by people who he trusted and he shouldn't be denied his entire career because of it.
Disagree. He's at the age of criminal responsibility and knows the difference between right and wrong. The argument about everyone else doing it doesn't stand up otherwise it wouldn't be done in secret. Yes he's paid he's due but now he should be banned for life. Zero tolerance. He's sorry because he was caught he didn't own up to anything. Should be banned with no come back.
I just think that's overly harsh, as I said before what he did was a criminal offence and he has served a criminal sentence for it, that should be enough. If he does it again then a longer prison sentence and a lifetime ban. I think Butt is the one who gets off lightly in this as he clearly manipulated a very vulnerable young man into doing his dirty work for him and yet they both get the same punishment, that's not right for me.
Was listening to a debate about it on 5 Live the other day. Amir played for the same domestic side in Pakistan as Butt and the other one involved (who's name escapes me), so was probably even more influenced by them. We can think of the players what we want, but the authorities are the ones who have allowed him to play again with the length of the fan, so they should be criticised as well.
I think part of the leniency with Amir is that the way Pakistani society and the cricket team works means he was under different pressures to say Lou Vincent. He was an 18 year old kid who spent time in jail and couldn't play for 5 years. I'd say that's a sufficient punishment for what he did. Butt and Asif should have got life bans, because they were at different stages of their life, were senior players and in Butt's case was the captain from a privileged background.
I think moving forward given the high profile nature of this case that it should be life bans, but I think there were plenty of mitigating circumstances in Amir's case and he's been severely punished already.
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Sad news about Michael Carberry :(
Very sad, hope he recovers fully.
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Lets get the facts straight first guys, it wasn't match fixing - it was spot fixing. Bowling a no ball in a certain over.
I'm not trying to belittle what he did, but its very different from say a boxer throwing a match, or for a goalkeeper in football deliberately allowing a goal. He bowled a no ball on purpose which doesn't change the outcome of the game.
He was asked by his captain to do this at the age of 18. I think it would be very harsh if one of the most talented bowlers in the world had to face a life time ban for this. He has learned from his mistake and missed probably a 3rd of his career in the process. That's massive punishment. The other 2 Butt and Asif were at an age where a 5 year ban meant the end of their career anyway - so for those 2 you could say it was a lifetime ban. But they should have known better being experienced pros.
Im sure if he had been asked to deliberately bowl poorly or allow the opposition to win he would not have done this for his captain.
I for one am glad he's back as hes an exceptional talent, just wish Misbah was the captain then or Inzi - Would not have happened.
On a side note, why on earth do betting companies allow for stupid bets like offering odds for a no ball in the next over, or what time the first throw in in football will be.
All fair points, swaying me away from my original opinion that he shouldn't have been allowed to play again.
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I agree with everything except having a distinction between spot and match fixing. You can't possibly know that deliberately bowling a no ball, or batting out a maiden isn't going to impact the outcome of the match. You could bowl a batsman with that no ball and then he goes on to make a double hundred.
I agree though that Amir deserves to be back involved now and people need to move on.
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I agree with everything except having a distinction between spot and match fixing. You can't possibly know that deliberately bowling a no ball, or batting out a maiden isn't going to impact the outcome of the match. You could bowl a batsman with that no ball and then he goes on to make a double hundred.
I agree though that Amir deserves to be back involved now and people need to move on.
Ah but it's all about intent. If you intend to bowl a few no balls but otherwise win the game then it's very different to intending to lose the game even if the result is the same.
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I must admit that I thought that Woakes was just short of international class, so I'm pleased to admit that I was wrong!
The selectors have got a real selection problem ahead. From the side playing at Lords, clearly Finn is short of rhythm and form so Anderson will come in for him in the next test. Stokes is nearing full fitness and should go back into the side, but Woakes does not deserve to be dropped. Do they sacrifice Ali, whose runs with the lower order have proved vital or do they drop Woakes who is bowling well and can get you runs?
It's a nice headache to have and it will be interesting to see how they decide to go.
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Woakes on the honours board.
With regard to Woakes i have always been one of his biggest fans having many discussions about his abilities with the ball,
A lengthy discussion probably a couple of years ago now comparing him to Chris Jordan. I knew then that he would see Jordan off
and win the battle for a test place (6 for now) the battle continuing around the T20 team but Woakes now a regular in the ODI side.
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Excellent well done Woakes.
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I was gonna go onto say that i was always critical of Jordans stuttering run up where Woakes has such a
lovely balanced run up to the wicket and seamless release of the ball.
I am honestly chuffed to bits for him. A Villa lad as well.
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I agree with everything except having a distinction between spot and match fixing. You can't possibly know that deliberately bowling a no ball, or batting out a maiden isn't going to impact the outcome of the match. You could bowl a batsman with that no ball and then he goes on to make a double hundred.
I agree though that Amir deserves to be back involved now and people need to move on.
Ah but it's all about intent. If you intend to bowl a few no balls but otherwise win the game then it's very different to intending to lose the game even if the result is the same.
I understand the difference in intent, but because the ultimate result could be the same the consequences for spot fixing need to be as harsh as they are for match fixing. Ultimately you've made the choice to falsify an element of the game.
As I say in Amir's case there were mitigating circumstances, but moving forward it should be a life ban for spot or match fixing.
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Excellent well done Woakes.
Yep. Has received some harsh criticism so far in his international career, so really pleased for him. If he can continue this kind of form with the ball, his batting means that he will very useful.
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If Pakistan bowl correctly this could be pretty tough.
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Now this will be a real test for the likes of Hales, Vince and Balance. Well all of them actually, but we've seen the others score big against quality attacks. They won't face many better attacks than this Pakistan one. They have everything.
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I'm sure I said it on here a while back but watching the way Woakes moves the ball in the air I've long thought that he's the natural replacement for Jimmy in a few years time because he can get the ball going both ways. He's not got the natural talent of Anderson but he has worked his balls off to make the best of his ability and that is starting to shine through now, he's now clearly the 3rd seamer in this team and the confidence from his performances is driving him on. I suspect by the end of this series he'll have an average of around 25-30 that properly reflects his ability with the ball.
Edit
Also I love the fact that more than anyone else in the country he has a smooth repeatable action which means he can bowl longer spells regularly and still get lots out of the ball, that should help him have a long career and hopefully avoid injuries.
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Now this will be a real test for the likes of Hales, Vince and Balance. Well all of them actually, but we've seen the others score big against quality attacks. They won't face many better attacks than this Pakistan one. They have everything.
I think Hales is important here. He's got the ability and started to show that against SL so he has form, with Cook also over the 'hump' of his record which affected him in that series there is the potential for a big opening stand here which would be nice after a few years of repeated failure at the top.
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Goddamnit I need to not type silly statements like that one.
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Hales gone. Big test for Root then, he's not a natural opener and he is now, for all intents, opening.
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Oh. and the pitch looks quicker this morning, so faster scoring but inevitably more chances for the Pakistan seamers.
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I must admit that I thought that Woakes was just short of international class, so I'm pleased to admit that I was wrong!
The selectors have got a real selection problem ahead. From the side playing at Lords, clearly Finn is short of rhythm and form so Anderson will come in for him in the next test. Stokes is nearing full fitness and should go back into the side, but Woakes does not deserve to be dropped. Do they sacrifice Ali, whose runs with the lower order have proved vital or do they drop Woakes who is bowling well and can get you runs?
It's a nice headache to have and it will be interesting to see how they decide to go.
I think it could be a batsman that is discarded or probably Ball.
Cook
Hales
Root (I'd bat him at 4)
Ballance
Bairstow
Vince
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
or one of Ballance or Vince goes and Ball comes back in.
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This is going to be very tough now.
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I must admit that I thought that Woakes was just short of international class, so I'm pleased to admit that I was wrong!
The selectors have got a real selection problem ahead. From the side playing at Lords, clearly Finn is short of rhythm and form so Anderson will come in for him in the next test. Stokes is nearing full fitness and should go back into the side, but Woakes does not deserve to be dropped. Do they sacrifice Ali, whose runs with the lower order have proved vital or do they drop Woakes who is bowling well and can get you runs?
It's a nice headache to have and it will be interesting to see how they decide to go.
I think it could be a batsman that is discarded or probably Ball.
Cook
Hales
Root (I'd bat him at 4)
Ballance
Bairstow
Vince
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
or one of Ballance or Vince goes and Ball comes back in.
The only issue with keeping Ball in and bringing in Stokes is that you'd then have 5 frontline seamers and inevitably 1-2 of them won't get many overs, there's a delicate balance to be found to avoid having too many options.
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Hales gone. Big test for Root then, he's not a natural opener and he is now, for all intents, opening.
I personally would not have moved him from four. Would have moved Vince to three and kept Root where he was.
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With Pakistan having Yasir Shah in the team I reckon we need at least a hundred run lead after the first innings.
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Hales gone. Big test for Root then, he's not a natural opener and he is now, for all intents, opening.
I personally would not have moved him from four. Would have moved Vince to three and kept Root where he was.
I think that because of the uncertainty over Vince following the Sri Lanka series means that he'll get protected in the middle order. Hopefully he comes good because he'd be a great number 3.
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Hales gone. Big test for Root then, he's not a natural opener and he is now, for all intents, opening.
Although he first got into the England team on the strength of his batting for Yorkshire as an opener, he then got moved up and down the order before they decided four was his best position.
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I can't believe that Andrew did the calculation to work out how long it would take Tuffers to bowl out the population of India
..........66 million years ;D
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Hales gone. Big test for Root then, he's not a natural opener and he is now, for all intents, opening.
Although he first got into the England team on the strength of his batting for Yorkshire as an opener, he then got moved up and down the order before they decided four was his best position.
Ah, I didn't know he opened for Yorkshire, I take little notice of such back waters of the game.
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Also I love the fact that more than anyone else in the country he has a smooth repeatable action which means he can bowl longer spells regularly and still get lots out of the ball, that should help him have a long career and hopefully avoid injuries.
Glen McGrath-esque in its repetition. Yet he swings it more and is a far better batsmen.
Sometimes players who are expected to shine on the international stage don't and those expected to do do.
He may not have the xfactor but he has all the credentials to be a very special player.
A good comparison in my mind would be Warne/Stokes vs McGrath/Woakes.
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Good job for England that the selectors do though.
*smiley, winky thing*
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That was an annoying way to get out from Root.
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Disappointing to lose Vince only 15 minutes before Tea. Difficult time for Gary Ballance now
139/3
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Proved too difficult for Ballance LBW Shah 6 just 4 minutes from Tea
Leggy Shah 3/22
147/4
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Another average effort from the middle order. We've been saved on numerous occasions recently by the lower order.
It won't keep happening.
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Pretty poor, Shah is rolling through us here.
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This is why the Root wicket was so frustrating, and he clearly knew it, it's kind of opened the door.
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Pretty poor, Shah is rolling through us here.
I would say that of his 3 wickets, the only good ball was the one that got Ballance. Root had a massive rush of blood to the head, and Vince just missed an ordinary one.
Not great
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Pretty poor, Shah is rolling through us here.
I would say that of his 3 wickets, the only good ball was the one that got Ballance. Root had a massive rush of blood to the head, and Vince just missed an ordinary one.
Not great
I would agree. and of course all this has done is to have increased his confidence no end. We all know how talented he is!!
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I must admit that I thought that Woakes was just short of international class, so I'm pleased to admit that I was wrong!
The selectors have got a real selection problem ahead. From the side playing at Lords, clearly Finn is short of rhythm and form so Anderson will come in for him in the next test. Stokes is nearing full fitness and should go back into the side, but Woakes does not deserve to be dropped. Do they sacrifice Ali, whose runs with the lower order have proved vital or do they drop Woakes who is bowling well and can get you runs?
It's a nice headache to have and it will be interesting to see how they decide to go.
I think it could be a batsman that is discarded or probably Ball.
Cook
Hales
Root (I'd bat him at 4)
Ballance
Bairstow
Vince
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
or one of Ballance or Vince goes and Ball comes back in.
When his finger recovers I'd bring Buttler back in and go with:
Cook, Hales, Vince, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes, Broad, Anderson
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Cook is doing this a bit recently, getting to 80 odd then throwing it away.
Seems a long time since his last century.
In trouble now
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Mohammad Amir gets his 1st test wkt on his return and it's Capt. Cook bowled off a thick inside edge on to leg stump 81.
Starting to struggle somewhat now at 173/5.
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Our batting generally hasn't been good enough for a long time now. We've been saved by the exploits of the bowlers and runs from the lower order
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Getting a little silly now
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So many of the wickets just needlessly given away
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Terrible shot from Bairstow there....193/6.
I was about to say where will all this end.....
Probably very soon....Yasir with more than a few.
Come on now CW do it with bat as well as ball.
Well he's got at least 4
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Shah has been gifted 3 wickets. Poor stuff from the batsmen, extremely poor
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This has been a pretty dire effort from the top and middle order as a unit.
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This has been a pretty dire effort from the top and middle order as a unit.
Yep, Pakistan haven't needed to bowl remotely well
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The top order other than Cook have all failed, but I feel like Ballance being selected is a mistake. Not that I don't rate him, but I've not seen anything since he was dropped to suggest he's really addressed his problems.
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The top order other than Cook have all failed, but I feel like Ballance being selected is a mistake. Not that I don't rate him, but I've not seen anything since he was dropped to suggest he's really addressed his problems.
His coaches at Yorkshire felt that given his high career average his technique didn't need any work, which quite frankly is an arrogant and pretty stupid approach. I hope he succeeds, I like him as a player but when the very people you turn to when your confidence and parts of your technique are shot tell you that there's nothing wrong then you have to ask if Yorkshire are putting their own interests first. His technique will not be tested by county attacks but top quality international attacks will thoroughly examine his technique and have worked out how to get him out.
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Ballance was a strange selection. He really struggled against Left arm seamers last summer in Test's, and the first match they bring him back into is one where he would face 3 of them.
Granted he got out to a good ball from the spinner today
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Another wicket thrown away
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We look fucking shambolic against a little bit of spin.
I thought those days were meant to be in the past
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We look fucking shambolic against a little bit of spin.
I thought those days were meant to be in the past
I think Ali was somewhat unfortunate there, for there to be '2 Umpire Calls' categories,
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We look fucking shambolic against a little bit of spin.
I thought those days were meant to be in the past
I think Ali was somewhat unfortunate there, for there to be '2 Umpire Calls' categories,
Yeah I agree, Not quite sure how the umpire gave it out initially.
Not a good shot though
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We are so poor against quality spin. It's so frustrating. Pakistan are favourites from here, batting 4th again Yasir will be tough on an ageing wicket.
If we can eek out another 50 runs then we are still in it but I don't have confidence in our batsman picking their leggie so another 50 runs is a huge ask.
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We are so poor against quality spin. It's so frustrating. Pakistan are favourites from here, batting 4th again Yasir will be tough on an ageing wicket.
If we can eek out another 50 runs then we are still in it but I don't have confidence in our batsman picking their leggie so another 50 runs is a huge ask.
The pitch will not factor into it. There was little to no spin and I don't think that will change all that much.
Of his 5 wickets, the ball to ballance was good, and the one that got Vince was ok, although Vince should never be out to that.
The other 3? Horrific shots
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Excellent from Woakes today. Those who failed need to learn if you're unsure on leg spin don't play across the line.
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Really finely balanced game at the moment though I think Pakistan have just shaded it so far.
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Very unfair for Messi to be good at Football and Cricket.
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Woakes is class. Excellent with the ball and sensible with the bat. He could get a ton if Broad stays but he tends to hit out.
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I'd say this Test is now looking like 70-30 in Pakistan's favour.
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I'd say this Test is now looking like 70-30 in Pakistan's favour.
Nasser Hussain pointed out last night that the fragility of their batting line up means there is always a chance against them, but even with that taken into account they are clear favourites. A lead of anything over 250 could prove very hard to chase.
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Important to get that early breakthrough.
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Well that lunchtime segment on SKY didn't go down too well!!
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Woakes again. Pakistan 44-2 and lead by 111.
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and another one for Woakes, 8 wickets and let down by his team mates with the bat, I suspect this is the breakthrough performance he's been needing for a year or so.
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This partnership for Pakistan could well decide the game.
Edit - massive wicket for us.
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brilliant catch, both in the context of the match and in technique.
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What on earth was Misbah playing at there ?
Great catch from Hales
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Moeen has bowled so much better today.
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Poor from the umpire looked like it was missing in realtime for me.
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I'm not sure about Broad bowling here.
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I'm not really sure why Woakes isn't bowling here.
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Bowled Mo.
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This game is slipping.
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This game is slipping.
Wonder Woakes!
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Poor from Bairstow.
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Congratulations Woakes excellent effort. Does beg the question why we persevered with Broad for so long. Don't get me wrong he's a quality bowler, but he just doesn't have that zip today.
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Woakes with 2 5fors, good lad!
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how long until we hear "your batsmen are terrified Chris Woakes is on fire"
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how long until we hear "your batsmen are terrified Chris Woakes is on fire"
Hopefully never.
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I think the testament to Wakes is that he's got a lot more out of a dead pitch than any seamer on both sides. Extremely impressive performance
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Not gaining parity after the first innings could well cost us here, especially after seeing the problems Shah caused us.
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how long until we hear "your batsmen are terrified Chris Woakes is on fire"
First sign of that, drop him, shoot them.
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I liked the bit they did at the end talking about Woakes where they said they'd analysed him trying to see why he hadn't had a big impact before this test and they'd found nothing they could pinpoint. I've felt the same for a while, he's shown he's capable of everything you need from a international bowler but it just hadn't led to wickets suddenly all the work has paid off for him in this match and he's shown why they've stuck with him and kept him around the squad.
Specifically on the match I think it will end up very close and I think part of the reason for that is that they've been on the right side of pretty much all the 50-50 decisions. By that I means ones that were referred and it went with "umpire's call" I can think of 4 and all of them have favoured Pakistan and have probably caused a 80-100 run swing in this match. The Moeen Ali dismissal is probably the harshest, to be out where 2 of the 3 tracking measures are umpires call is really tough on him and shows better than anything else the real advantage of getting the on-field umpire to make the call.
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how long until we hear "your batsmen are terrified Chris Woakes is on fire"
Hopefully never.
I note with interest that the Worcestershire supporters have dropped their hilarious "If Woakes can play for England, so can I" song this season.
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It does annoy me that 2 of the major sporting events of the summer, an England test match and the Open, have clashed once again. I would say the majority of sports fans want to see both events. It's the cricket officials, who to blame, as the Open dates are arranged quite a few years in advance. I shall probably watch the cricket until about 2 ish, and then turn over to the Open, when the leaders are due to go out, as there are another 3 tests to come.
Thankfully I understand now Sky have the rights to the Open, it will not happen in future.
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I don't have a problem with any sporting event clashing with any golf tournament!
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Excellent. Two very quick wickets this morning (Broad now has 351 wickets), now need 283 to win.
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Should be an interesting run chase.
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Good start but Cook gone. Caught behind edging a ball just outside off stump. It is a problem area for him especially against left arm bowlers bowling over the wicket. Far from me to tell a player who has scored the amount of runs he has how to play, but it seems he starts on leg stump and moves across. Surely he would be better starting a little further across and getting himself outside the line of off stump. I can see him having real problems this series against their left armers.
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Both openers gone, poor.
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Looks like a feeble attempt in progress
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Can't blame the pitch, it stills seems really flat.
Or the quality of the bowling, which has been poor
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Even at the very low level of cricket I played, I'd expect a bollocking for getting out with a shot like that
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What is Hales playing at? It's not a one day match! Ffs show some patience, see off the new ball. There's nearly 2 days to get 280 odd. Just no need to flash at a wide ball at this early stage of the innings.
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Pakistan into the tail now
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Root was lucky there. Why can't they leave these wide balls?? Simple, wait for the bad ball, there's nearly 2 days to go!! Poor shot making - Woakes is the only sensible one.
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Vince needs to make the most of that.
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Just play straight England.
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Are you fucking kidding me?
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This is beyond a disgrace
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Big trouble now.
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Absolutely terrible from Root. Two terrible shots he's got out to in this match.
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Nice of Joe to provide Pakistan with some catching practice.
Either don't play that shot or smack the thing. Don't just paddle it
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All 3 wickets to a really shit bowler
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That's effectively it.
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Root's had a poor summer in the Tests. He has to take more responsibility.
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Pakistan surely can't believe their luck. They must have thought that they would have to make an effort to win this match
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Basically another one-day shot from Root. Rubbish!
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I'd bring in Woakes next. He's the only one with any application and patience. The others think they're playing in a ODI!
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Pakistan have bowled poorly and there is nothing in the pitch.
This has been an abysmal effort so far.
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Just checked in to see who you all want dropping for the next Test and who to replace them with?
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I think Vince is doing a great job here to be fair. He's riding his luck a little but by scoring quickly like this it's putting pressure back on the bowlers. They've only got 4 if we can score quickly off 1 or 2 of them they haven't got many options to change things, especially when Amir on day 2 was showing signs of struggling for fitness. If we score some big runs of Yasir it puts him under a lot of pressure and should make him a little more nervy about the variations.
Aside from that I think scoring at a bit of a lick is the right tactic, once the ball is 40-50 overs old this attack become a lot more dangerous, if we can get a big chunk out of the lead before that point then we have a better chance. The problem is poor execution rather than a bad plan.
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Less than 200 to get now....yes Pakistan are clear favourites but too early to write England off.
2nd session gonna be absolutely crucial....194 to win....i'll keep the faith...for now.
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Just checked in to see who you all want dropping for the next Test and who to replace them with?
If we win why change....Anderson in for Finn...maybe and a big maybe possibility of 2nd spinner at OT.
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Just checked in to see who you all want dropping for the next Test and who to replace them with?
If we win why change....Anderson in for Finn...maybe and a big maybe possibility of 2nd spinner at OT.
Stokes has to come back into the team as he's now fit. Probably for Ball who looked ok, but only ok.
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Excellent from Vince and Ballance just keep going.
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Just checked in to see who you all want dropping for the next Test and who to replace them with?
If we win why change....Anderson in for Finn...maybe and a big maybe possibility of 2nd spinner at OT.
Sorry, I was being facetious PGW, tend to avoid this thread when England are having a bad spell as there are all sorts of calls for changes. Over the last couple of years I've read every single player needs dropping at some stage or isn't good enough and all sorts of names put forward. I've no idea how anybody knows how good any players from the county circuit are as apart from yourself and a couple of others on here, not many people spend time watching the county game. As I've said before, the reason I've defended the likes of Root, Lyth, Bairstow etc is because I only ever go to watch Yorkshire!
A bit like any of the match threads things are either "disastrous" or we're world beaters depending on how the match is going with no middle ground.
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Just checked in to see who you all want dropping for the next Test and who to replace them with?
If we win why change....Anderson in for Finn...maybe and a big maybe possibility of 2nd spinner at OT.
Sorry, I was being facetious PGW, tend to avoid this thread when England are having a bad spell as there are all sorts of calls for changes. Over the last couple of years I've read every single player needs dropping at some stage or isn't good enough and all sorts of names put forward. I've no idea how anybody knows how good any players from the county circuit are as apart from yourself and a couple of others on here, not many people spend time watching the county game. As I've said before, the reason I've defended the likes of Root, Lyth, Bairstow etc is because I only ever go to watch Yorkshire!
A bit like any of the match threads things are either "disastrous" or we're world beaters depending on how the match is going with no middle ground.
It's the British way mate, we've always got to find a scapegoat!! No matter what the result, I guess Anderson and Stokes will come back in replacing I would guess Ball and one of Vince or Ballance. I would hope we have moved away from the chopping and changing policy of the 90's.
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I think Finn has to drop out, he's been out of form for months now and that's the spot open for Jimmy who will clearly come back in. Then you have Stokes to fit in and the obvious choices, for me, are Ballance out if we want the extra bowler or Ball out if we want the extra batting depth. I'd go for the latter personally. Hales and Vince need to play out the rest of this series and then review before we tour in the winter.
I think Ball and Ballance are clearly in the squad as injury cover and dropping either of them isn't making a statement against them, dropping anyone else is a recognition that they don't deserve another chance right now and Only Finn is at that point for me.
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I think Finn has to drop out, he's been out of form for months now and that's the spot open for Jimmy who will clearly come back in. Then you have Stokes to fit in and the obvious choices, for me, are Ballance out if we want the extra bowler or Ball out if we want the extra batting depth. I'd go for the latter personally. Hales and Vince need to play out the rest of this series and then review before we tour in the winter.
I think Ball and Ballance are clearly in the squad as injury cover and dropping either of them isn't making a statement against them, dropping anyone else is a recognition that they don't deserve another chance right now and Only Finn is at that point for me.
Ballance needs to make himself undroppable by getting a big score today
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3 of the 4 wickets just thrown away
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Just remember next test at Old Trafford so Borthwick should be a contender as spin option....Devils advocate!!!
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Just remember next test at Old Trafford so Borthwick should be a contender as spin option....Devils advocate!!!
I hope to god we aren't planning on preparing a pitch that spins???!!!
Just leave a shit load of grass on it
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We're just playing too loosely.
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We're just playing too loosely.
I don't get the tactics to be honest. The pitch is still a very decent batting pitch, there's just no need to be playing the gung ho shots that we have been. Pakistan will be delighted. They've bowled 1 good ball and taken 4 wickets.
Amateurish batting effort so far.
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Vince frustrates me because he has absolutely everything. My one question mark about him is I just can't see him scoring tough gritty runs.
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Vince frustrates me because he has absolutely everything. My one question mark about him is I just can't see him scoring tough gritty runs.
That's why I'd stick with him but it's also why I'm not sure if he'll make it long-term. The technique is there for him to be a very good top 4 batsman but for whatever reason it's just not coming together for him just yet. I see the same in Hales and Buttler and I'd really like the latter to get another shot in the test team before long.
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He'll stay in now, Ballance hasn't done enough to take his place.
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Ballance was looking ok in fairness. He is one of the two players to get out where he can at least give some credit to the bowler.
I can't see Moeen sticking around too long
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Moeen should be dropped for that shot alone
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Terrible Moeen.
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Fucking hell, that was moronic.
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What a gutless surrender this has turned into.
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They'll wrap this up this afternoon.
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Is it too much to ask that Pakistan actually have to try to take their wickets?
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England's cricket since Bayliss has taken over has been really impressive, but I think this game has illustrated our problem. We've got obsessed with over aggression. This situation requires a sensible approach, but we can out frenetically and just slashing at it. I think the whole mentality of the squad needs to be more flexible. All these players can play, but they need to engage their brains. Moeen, Root and Hales were all just stupid. There's no excuse for Root and Moeen they're both experienced players now. The ability to understand the game situation needs to be the lesson from this game.
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Root in particular has played two ridiculous shots. It's arguable that the one in the 1st innings was worse, as at 118 for 1 we were in complete control.
I don't think Pakistan have bowled well in either innings really. We've made it so easy for them.
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I think Root should be dropped and returned to Yorkshire for the rest of the season. And Bairstow. Both of them to be replaced by Middlesex players.
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What we're seeing now is why they were rushing things a little earlier, there was always going to be a spell like this where we struggled to score against the reverse swing which allows huge amounts of pressure at the other end. We now need to hang on and get to the end of the day and hope they take the new ball then push from there. It's a big ask to win this with the wickets we've lost but I can understand why they thought it was worth the risk.
The truth is we were 50 runs light in our first innings and then we let 6,7 and 8 score too many for them yesterday afternoon when we had them on the ropes. fix those 2 and we'd be looking at another 30-40 runs here rather than 110.
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That's a shocker of a decision on the field, that's a pretty massive edge. If we'd been out of reviews we'd feel utterly robbed right now.
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Poor from Bairstow, silly mistake after a fantastic innings.
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Unlucky Bairstow, but at least he showed the application.
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This is nearly done.
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I think Broad is completely done as a batsman against anyone who can bowl pace well.
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Needed Broad to stick around a bit but this was lost in the first innings for me, there's a good reason why this would've been the 2nd best chase ever at Lords.
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Finest of nicks ever?
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If Hales, Root and Ali had shown the application of Bairstow and Woakes we might have won this.
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If Hales, Root and Ali had shown the application of Bairstow and Woakes we might have won this.
Agree. They were reckless. No patience or application required for the job. Too many one day shots.
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Great Test though and I think it's great that England have a proper team to play against. I think for the long term this will be good for England. You can only develop through playing strong opposition.
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As a cricket fan, it makes me very happy to see a high-level legspinner playing so well.
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Anderson & Stokes for Finn & Ball is a no brainer for the next test. We'll see how good Pakistan are when they face Anderson, Broad, Woakes & Stokes. Strengthens both the bowling & batting.
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Anderson & Stokes for Finn & Ball is a no brainer for the next test. We'll see how good Pakistan are when they face Anderson, Broad, Woakes & Stokes. Strengthens both the bowling & batting.
I agree, that's the same changes I'd make. I think this test we let them score more than they should've because only Woakes and Broad really put them under pressure and we just couldn't keep that level up when we switched to the others (although Ali did ok, his batting is a much bigger worry than his bowling for me).
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Playing both Woakes and Stokes should allow space for England to pick a front line spinner rather than Moeen.
The problem, there isn't really one to pick.
On TV this morning, Mike Selvey was saying that the best spinner in county cricket is Monty but he hasn't played much.
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If we are serious about test cricket then we need to play as many as possible county championship games in August when the pitches are dry and are prone to spin.
Will not happen though.
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As I say, Ali has done fine with the ball in the last year, his batting has gone backwards though. He should be the steadying influence in the lower order that pulls us out of the fire in games like this but he's developed a worrying habit of throwing his wicket away when we ned him to hold things together and make bigger scores when we're already on top.
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I agree Paul E. I don't think there's a better English spinner than Moeen anyway, and I think he's done well enough with the ball recently. He's losing his head while batting far too often though.
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Great Test though and I think it's great that England have a proper team to play against. I think for the long term this will be good for England. You can only develop through playing strong opposition.
Agree PW and although I am disappointed that we lost, it has set the series up nicely.
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Anderson & Stokes for Finn & Ball is a no brainer for the next test. We'll see how good Pakistan are when they face Anderson, Broad, Woakes & Stokes. Strengthens both the bowling & batting.
Yep. Cook, Hales, Vince, Root, Ballance, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Broad, Anderson. The batting was not great in this test, but I would give them another chance. I would return to Root at four to give him a bit more protection.
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Ali needs to change his mentality, because I think the number 7 or 8 role has got him thinking too much of a quick counter attack. He needs to assess each situation on its merits. Today was about sitting in for an hour and taking the sting out of Pakistan.
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It proved how much of a massive loss Anderson was. No way do Pakistan get over 300 in their first innings if he played.
I hope we have a bit more pace and bounce in the other pitches also. Low and slow just plays into their hands
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I was disappointed with bairstow for the way he swiped across the line and got bowled. he did it earlier in his innings and was lucky to not be out then also. i thought he had eradicated that type of rash shot selection but worrying if he hasn't as it suggests his purple patch was just that and nothing lasting. very poor from England but credit due to pakistan who deserved their win.
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Great Test though and I think it's great that England have a proper team to play against. I think for the long term this will be good for England. You can only develop through playing strong opposition.
I agree. This was a proper competitive test match. Shame it didn't go full 5 days but England players will learn and improve much quicker post this match than they did after 3 walkovers v Sri Lanka.
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worrying if he hasn't as it suggests his purple patch was just that and nothing lasting.
Err, have you seen his batting average for the last 12 months?
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worrying if he hasn't as it suggests his purple patch was just that and nothing lasting.
Err, have you seen his batting average for the last 12 months?
He wouldn't be the first to struggle against a top quality spinner. Top players tend to learn quickly though, so we'll see how he goes in the rest of the series.
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I agree Paul E. I don't think there's a better English spinner than Moeen anyway, and I think he's done well enough with the ball recently. He's losing his head while batting far too often though.
I am still not sure how effective Moeen is at this level. He really struggles to keep an end tight, and as such the game always seems to be in danger of being taken away from England - it probably doesn't matter in a 5 man attack I guess. I think Rashid is the better bowler, and his batting is ok....we probably wouldn't lose too much anyway as Woakes is now presumably ahead of Finn and a decent batsman.
I am not convinced by Hales or Vince.
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worrying if he hasn't as it suggests his purple patch was just that and nothing lasting.
Err, have you seen his batting average for the last 12 months?
He wouldn't be the first to struggle against a top quality spinner. Top players tend to learn quickly though, so we'll see how he goes in the rest of the series.
He did however top score in the second innings, facing 147 deliveries, far more than any other England batsman and curbed his natural attacking game. I've always said he's good enough and peter has always seemingly said he's not but singling him out yesterday was a bit ridiculous, all things considered. Moeen Ali played one of the most moronic shots I've seen in many years.
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No surprise to see the likes of Hales struggling as soon as we come up against a proper Test quality attack.
Our top 5 is so reliant on one of Cook or Root getting a century every innings it's scary.
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Our top 5 is poor at the moment. Hales hasn't the technique for Test cricket, way too loose, good bowlers will work him out in no time. Same goes for Ballance. Vince I've not seen much of over here.
Shame as the middle/lower order and bowling depth looks strong. We're 2 good Test batsmen away from being a really good side.
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Too be fair i'm not a massive fan of Hales, as a 1 day player both formats my choice every time, but his technique isn't the greatest and he is
currently just 'doing enough' to keep his place. I certainly don't think experimenting in this series against a very good team is the answer so
for me Hales keeps his place, if you were to leave him out there isn't exactly anyone out there pulling up trees.....Keaton Jennings from Durham.
He fits the profile of an England player being born in SA....not too sure how far into his 4 yr qualification period..he may have completed it.
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Too be fair i'm not a massive fan of Hales, as a 1 day player both formats my choice every time, but his technique isn't the greatest and he is
currently just 'doing enough' to keep his place. I certainly don't think experimenting in this series against a very good team is the answer so
for me Hales keeps his place, if you were to leave him out there isn't exactly anyone out there pulling up trees.....Keaton Jennings from Durham.
He fits the profile of an England player being born in SA....not too sure how far into his 4 yr qualification period..he may have completed it.
Accidentally posted that!!
Vince i certainly would persevere with...technically he is a very good player. Ballance on the other hand not so sure about, his Test average is good and
selectors have given him a second chance, his technique has,maybe, improved he didn't appear to make that step back and across so much in this Test
match so for me he gets the rest of the series as long as we don't go 2-0 down in next one. Who do you replace him with....some will say Bell. Not for me
but am unsure...certainly one for future is our own Sam Hain or Liam Livingstone at Lancs but at least 2 more years.
Moeen Ali...i'm afraid time for a change...don't profess to know answer Adil Rashid probably. Pakistan use just a leg spinner.
So all in all not a massive advocate of change...
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Too be fair i'm not a massive fan of Hales, as a 1 day player both formats my choice every time, but his technique isn't the greatest and he is
currently just 'doing enough' to keep his place. I certainly don't think experimenting in this series against a very good team is the answer so
for me Hales keeps his place, if you were to leave him out there isn't exactly anyone out there pulling up trees.....Keaton Jennings from Durham.
He fits the profile of an England player being born in SA....not too sure how far into his 4 yr qualification period..he may have completed it.
Accidentally posted that!!
Vince i certainly would persevere with...technically he is a very good player. Ballance on the other hand not so sure about, his Test average is good and
selectors have given him a second chance, his technique has,maybe, improved he didn't appear to make that step back and across so much in this Test
match so for me he gets the rest of the series as long as we don't go 2-0 down in next one. Who do you replace him with....some will say Bell. Not for me
but am unsure...certainly one for future is our own Sam Hain or Liam Livingstone at Lancs but at least 2 more years.
Moeen Ali...i'm afraid time for a change...don't profess to know answer Adil Rashid probably. Pakistan use just a leg spinner.
So all in all not a massive advocate of change...
Borthwick will get another go at some point, another leggie whose batting is stronger than his bowling but could come in and bat at 6 or 7.
A future opener but probably a year or two away is the boy Bell-Drummond at Kent, only 22, scoring runs for fun and has represented England at youth levels up to U-19s.
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Selvey leaves The Guardian.
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Rashid, Anderson and Stokes recalled, Roland-Jones the only one omitted from squad named for the 1st Test
Ball, Finn, Ali out and Rashid, Anderson and Stokes in for me
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Despite batting like a wombat I think Mo needs to play. On a turning wicket, with all their right handed batsmen and their left arm bowlers, assuming we bat first, we need an off-spinner I think.
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Our top 5 is poor at the moment. Hales hasn't the technique for Test cricket, way too loose, good bowlers will work him out in no time. Same goes for Ballance. Vince I've not seen much of over here.
Shame as the middle/lower order and bowling depth looks strong. We're 2 good Test batsmen away from being a really good side.
It's in transition at the moment. We haven't yet replaced Strauss at the top of the order and we have also recently lost the pretty solid base of Trott at three and Bell at five and haven't really replaced them either.
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It's only one defeat. They've just thrashed Sri Lanka and, before that, produced an impressive series win in South Africa.
There are three tests left and I fancy England still to win the series.
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Too be fair i'm not a massive fan of Hales, as a 1 day player both formats my choice every time, but his technique isn't the greatest and he is
currently just 'doing enough' to keep his place. I certainly don't think experimenting in this series against a very good team is the answer so
for me Hales keeps his place, if you were to leave him out there isn't exactly anyone out there pulling up trees.....Keaton Jennings from Durham.
He fits the profile of an England player being born in SA....not too sure how far into his 4 yr qualification period..he may have completed it.
Accidentally posted that!!
Vince i certainly would persevere with...technically he is a very good player. Ballance on the other hand not so sure about, his Test average is good and
selectors have given him a second chance, his technique has,maybe, improved he didn't appear to make that step back and across so much in this Test
match so for me he gets the rest of the series as long as we don't go 2-0 down in next one. Who do you replace him with....some will say Bell. Not for me
but am unsure...certainly one for future is our own Sam Hain or Liam Livingstone at Lancs but at least 2 more years.
Moeen Ali...i'm afraid time for a change...don't profess to know answer Adil Rashid probably. Pakistan use just a leg spinner.
So all in all not a massive advocate of change...
Borthwick will get another go at some point, another leggie whose batting is stronger than his bowling but could come in and bat at 6 or 7.
A future opener but probably a year or two away is the boy Bell-Drummond at Kent, only 22, scoring runs for fun and has represented England at youth levels up to U-19s.
I think Borthwick should have probably got a chance ahead of Ballance, who hasn't really shown too much form so far this season.
Agree about Bell-Drummond, but I think the kid at Worcester (Kohler Cadmore) looks a real talent as well. I think it also only a matter of time before Sam Hain breaks into the side as well.
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It's only one defeat. They've just thrashed Sri Lanka and, before that, produced an impressive series win in South Africa.
There are three tests left and I fancy England still to win the series.
Yep and at a ground we notoriously don't do very well on. Really looking forward to the rest of the series.
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Despite batting like a wombat I think Mo needs to play. On a turning wicket, with all their right handed batsmen and their left arm bowlers, assuming we bat first, we need an off-spinner I think.
I think he will play and Rashid will also play if it is a spinning wicket. Could see Bairstow moving up to five, Stokes at six, Ali at seven, Woakes at eight and Rashid at nine.
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I'd love to see some stats of England's success rate when playing two spinners. I predict it's very low.
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worrying if he hasn't as it suggests his purple patch was just that and nothing lasting.
Err, have you seen his batting average for the last 12 months?
Yes. Its been pretty impressive. But not against top class spin./ You can argue that anyone can get out against the best and we seem to struggle against spin in general, but the ugly swipes across the line seemed to show that technically he will struggle over the winter and through this summer.
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Quite a knock by Ben Duckett today for England in the A international against Pakistan at 'Nam College
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/1036693.html
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I still haven't watched a cricket match at the College; despite working a few minutes' walk away
I've played there though back when my school team (a Comprehensive) made a decent run in a national competition against the posh boys
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worrying if he hasn't as it suggests his purple patch was just that and nothing lasting.
Err, have you seen his batting average for the last 12 months?
Yes. Its been pretty impressive. But not against top class spin./ You can argue that anyone can get out against the best and we seem to struggle against spin in general, but the ugly swipes across the line seemed to show that technically he will struggle over the winter and through this summer.
He can only play against what's in front of him, as I said, he stuck around a lot longer than any other player in the second innings and he's been in tremendous form for over a year now.
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Plus you can only get better if you play against top class bowlers. Bairstow shows every sign that he can learn from mistakes.
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Plus you can only get better if you play against top class bowlers. Bairstow shows every sign that he can learn from mistakes.
Absolutely, he learned from his mistakes from when he first got into the England side, worked hard on his batting and Yorkshire and England are benefiting.
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worrying if he hasn't as it suggests his purple patch was just that and nothing lasting.
Err, have you seen his batting average for the last 12 months?
Yes. Its been pretty impressive. But not against top class spin./ You can argue that anyone can get out against the best and we seem to struggle against spin in general, but the ugly swipes across the line seemed to show that technically he will struggle over the winter and through this summer.
He can only play against what's in front of him, as I said, he stuck around a lot longer than any other player in the second innings and he's been in tremendous form for over a year now.
Again very true. But the dismissal was such a bad shot I don't think he will learn from it. Shame as he had played stoically up to then. England need him to continue with the bat because with Buttler injured there's no-one in line to come in for him behind the stumps where he is atrocious for international test standard cricket.
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I get it peter, you don't and never will rate Bairstow!
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I'm a big fan of Bairstow. There's about 2 or 3 other positions I'm worried about in our Top 6 before him!
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I get it peter, you don't and never will rate Bairstow!
I certainly don't think any fault lies with Bairstow with regard to his dismissal, i would agree that it was a rash shot, but the pressure he and Chris Woakes were
put under by their team mates was immense. Both of them had defended stoically for a long time...Bairstow (as is Woakes)is still a young player in terms of experience.
In his Intenational career so far most things in general have gone his way and i suppose this is the first time that he and the England team that he has been part of has
been put under any real scrutiny and pressure i suppose Australia (13/14 tour) where Bairstow only played in 2 tests have to be taken into account. On sunday he batted for 207 balls
scoring by his strike rate a modest 48, but of that 200 balls probably 50% were from Yasir. I think the pressure told and he was bowled, you only had to see from his demeanour
how upset he was at the shot he played and the probable consequences for the result of the game.....a big YES, i'm a fan, from me.
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I'm an even bigger fan of Chris Woakes by the way!!!
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I get it peter, you don't and never will rate Bairstow!
I certainly don't think any fault lies with Bairstow with regard to his dismissal, i would agree that it was a rash shot, but the pressure he and Chris Woakes were
put under by their team mates was immense. Both of them had defended stoically for a long time...Bairstow (as is Woakes)is still a young player in terms of experience.
In his Intenational career so far most things in general have gone his way and i suppose this is the first time that he and the England team that he has been part of has
been put under any real scrutiny and pressure i suppose Australia (13/14 tour) where Bairstow only played in 2 tests have to be taken into account. On sunday he batted for 207 balls
scoring by his strike rate a modest 48, but of that 200 balls probably 50% were from Yasir. I think the pressure told and he was bowled, you only had to see from his demeanour
how upset he was at the shot he played and the probable consequences for the result of the game.....a big YES, i'm a fan, from me.
It was 207 minutes he batted for....147 balls....the point remains the same.
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I'd love to see some stats of England's success rate when playing two spinners. I predict it's very low.
Mainly due to personnel than the actual tactic of playing two spinners I would have thought. Swann and Monty worked quite well together in India a few years back if I recall correctly.
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I still haven't watched a cricket match at the College; despite working a few minutes' walk away
I've played there though back when my school team (a Comprehensive) made a decent run in a national competition against the posh boys
You should. It's a splendid day out. I too have played there. We got mullered.
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Sounds like Bayliss, Strauss and Cook are on collision course with the Selectors.
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Sounds like Bayliss, Strauss and Cook are on collision course with the Selectors.
Good! Something has to be done. Selection should rest with the coach and captain alone.
The situation with Compton at the start of the international summer was stupid and if reports are true, Cook and Bayliss wanted Anderson to play at Lords but the selectors erred on the side of cautious medical advice even though the player said he was fit. He then goes back up the M1 and plays for his county. Utter madness.
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Finn and Ball dropped from squad.
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Finn and Ball dropped from squad.
They've retained Rashid so I would think that after the recent hot weather they may consider playing two spinners. Old Trafford does offer spin so lord knows what Yasir Shah will do to us!
If they go with just Ali as the sole spinner then an attack of Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Stokes and Ali is pretty good if they bowl well and bowl to pre-set plans for each batsman.
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I have wonder if they might go -
Hales
Cook
Root
Vince
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
It means rejigging the batting line up, but it's a way of getting Rashid in the team. It also protects the workload on Stokes as a bowler.
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Put Root at 4.
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Sounds like Bayliss, Strauss and Cook are on collision course with the Selectors.
Good! Something has to be done. Selection should rest with the coach and captain alone.
The situation with Compton at the start of the international summer was stupid and if reports are true, Cook and Bayliss wanted Anderson to play at Lords but the selectors erred on the side of cautious medical advice even though the player said he was fit. He then goes back up the M1 and plays for his county. Utter madness.
More like Strauss wants total control. Medical advice should decide whether a fast bowler plays.We can't afford to have a player breaking down in a test ,with also possible longer term consequences.Anderson's absence had nothing to do with our defeat.Pakistan were dismissed for below average totals.His injury does provide an excuse for Strauss and Cook.The non-selection of 2 experienced middle order batsmen,one of whom Strauss called a cnut, has more relevance..
In the same way reports attacked KP''s loyalty,Bell's vice captaincy ,Rashid's accuracy,Compton's suitability,now we have the leaks/ reports aimed at selectors.These predate Bayliss,so who is briefing the journalists ?
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Me.
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Sounds like Bayliss, Strauss and Cook are on collision course with the Selectors.
Good! Something has to be done. Selection should rest with the coach and captain alone.
The situation with Compton at the start of the international summer was stupid and if reports are true, Cook and Bayliss wanted Anderson to play at Lords but the selectors erred on the side of cautious medical advice even though the player said he was fit. He then goes back up the M1 and plays for his county. Utter madness.
More like Strauss wants total control. Medical advice should decide whether a fast bowler plays.We can't afford to have a player breaking down in a test ,with also possible longer term consequences.Anderson's absence had nothing to do with our defeat.Pakistan were dismissed for below average totals.His injury does provide an excuse for Strauss and Cook.The non-selection of 2 experienced middle order batsmen,one of whom Strauss called a cnut, has more relevance..
In the same way reports attacked KP''s loyalty,Bell's vice captaincy ,Rashid's accuracy,Compton's suitability,now we have the leaks/ reports aimed at selectors.These predate Bayliss,so who is briefing the journalists ?
Some of those leaks were before Strauss was appointed last year. Also, if Anderson was fit to play for Lancashire then he was fit to play for England.
The buck must stop with Bayliss and Cook not the selectors. Before the 50 over world cup last year we made significant changes between the end of the warm ups and the start of the tournament. Batsmen were being asked to bat in unfamiliar positions. This was done at the behest of the selectors which was completely wrong. Leave it to the captain and coach, with the selectors providing input about how potential new England players are performing on the county circuit.
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I'm watching the first day of the first test between West Indies and India - on the TV, that is. Can anyone explain why there are no more than a few dozen spectators in the ground? It all seems really weird.
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Because the West Indies don't care about tests.
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Because the West Indies don't care about tests.
There was literally no one there though, which has to be a worry really for the state of the game there.
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I have wonder if they might go -
Hales
Cook
Root
Vince
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
It means rejigging the batting line up, but it's a way of getting Rashid in the team. It also protects the workload on Stokes as a bowler.
Would be the positive selection Paul, but we always tend to err on the side of caution so unless it is an absolute Bunsen, I think Rashid will miss out.
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Put Root at 4.
Agree Ads. I would like to see them be positive with Vince and put him at three and back him there. Root is by far our best player and I do think we need to protect him a bit.
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I'm watching the first day of the first test between West Indies and India - on the TV, that is. Can anyone explain why there are no more than a few dozen spectators in the ground? It all seems really weird.
I watched some of that as well. There looked like less people in the ground than they have for tests in the UAE
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Put Root at 4.
Agree Ads. I would like to see them be positive with Vince and put him at three and back him there. Root is by far our best player and I do think we need to protect him a bit.
I agree but they won't.
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Because the West Indies don't care about tests.
There was literally no one there though, which has to be a worry really for the state of the game there.
Agreed. Test cricket in the West Indies is dying. More than in any of the Test nations.
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No Rashid then. England bat first and that should be a really good toss to win.
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Victor on TMS, which is always good
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"And did those feet in ancient time......." No, no they did not
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I get it peter, you don't and never will rate Bairstow!
He needs stats better than Bradman before I'll think he's any cop.
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Where are all the people now who were saying how great Hales was just because he'd scored a few runs against a sub-standard Sri Lankan attack? It was obvious from his technique he would get found out at Test level against any proper pace attack. Needs to stick to the ODIs and T20s in future. The question is whether it's too early for Bell-Drummond, in which case the selectors may have to think about giving Sam Robson another chance in a couple of Test matches time or for the series after this one.
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That ball that got Hales would get far better players than him out. Trouble is a good player would've been out LBW not cleaned up like that.
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Because the West Indies don't care about tests.
There was literally no one there though, which has to be a worry really for the state of the game there.
Agreed. Test cricket in the West Indies is dying. More than in any of the Test nations.
It's a huge shame, especially when you consider how it used to be. I just wonder how they can afford to host matches when the crowds are that low.
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Good morning session so far.
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Rooooooot gets his 50
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Quickly followed by Chef
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Important ton by Cook and yet more records broken/equalled.
First England batsman to score 5 test tons against Pakistan and he has drawn level with Gooch with 11 centuries as England captain.
He really is phenomenal batsman.
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Disappointing to lose Cook just on tea. It seemed to keep low, but I think he could have got a little further forward.
Huge session coming up for England now. Given our recent batting malaise we really need to ram home the advantage that winning the toss has potentially given us.
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Excellent knock from Cook, shame he got out just before tea. Need Root and the middle to go big here.
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Well done Root. Vince is on borrowed time now, because he just keeps making the same mistake.
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Vince isn't good enough. Bell would be a good recall option. Question marks over Hales as a test opener.
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I'd leave them both in for the rest of the series and then review things.
Vince needs to be given a chance to settle, I don't like the idea of dropping someone if they fail in 2-3 tests, I just don't think you'll ever get a settled and functional team if you do that. Bringing someone in for a one off match to cover injuries (like Ball) is fine but if you've picked someone with a view of them being a regular then they need a fair chance.
For Hales I think he can take no shame from today, the delivery that got him was an absolute snorter that few batsman would've been able to deal with. Overall his record is below par but a decent series against SL means he deserves to see this one out.
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Hales has too much of a one day mindset.
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I wouldn't be dropping Vince yet, but he needs to show that he's learning.
Funnily enough what England need is an amalgamation of Vince's stroke play and Ballance's mental strength.
Good day though and a chance to press on tomorrow.
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Although he got a peach of a delivery, I am disappointed that Hales failed again. Our top 5 has lost 4 class players over the last few years and we haven't replaced them (Strauss, Trott, the South African and Bell). Various permutations have been tried without success. Now we have Hales, Vince and Ballance in the side and they're not inspiring confidence. You can argue that Root has replaced the South African but we haven't had a settled top 5 since the 2013 home Ashes series.
I agree that we should stick with Vince. Dropping him after a couple of games is wrong and takes us back to the bad old days of the 1990's. Hales worries me as does Ballance. Both are players I really like so I hope it comes good for both of them.
All in all it was England's day and how positive to see a nightwatchman of the calibre of Woakes striding out to bat. If he can stick around tomorrow and Root pushes on, with Bairstow, Stokes and Ali to come we could get a formidable target.
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Good play by England today and a sort of score against a top attack that shows the team is there are there about at the top of world Test ranking. Once again it's all about Cook and Root if they both do well England do well obviously world class operators however the other 3 top order batsmen who went cheaply need to start contributing. looking forward to tomorrow.
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Vince won't last, another Adam Lyth. I'll think be proven right on this. Get Belly back in, way better than Vince.
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Bell struggled at the start of his Test career too. Vince needs more time.
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Bell struggled in the middle parts and at the end at times too.
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Although he got a peach of a delivery, I am disappointed that Hales failed again. Our top 5 has lost 4 class players over the last few years and we haven't replaced them (Strauss, Trott, the South African and Bell). Various permutations have been tried without success. Now we have Hales, Vince and Ballance in the side and they're not inspiring confidence. You can argue that Root has replaced the South African but we haven't had a settled top 5 since the 2013 home Ashes series.
I agree that we should stick with Vince. Dropping him after a couple of games is wrong and takes us back to the bad old days of the 1990's. Hales worries me as does Ballance. Both are players I really like so I hope it comes good for both of them.
All in all it was England's day and how positive to see a nightwatchman of the calibre of Woakes striding out to bat. If he can stick around tomorrow and Root pushes on, with Bairstow, Stokes and Ali to come we could get a formidable target.
I would add James Taylor to the list of players who have departed the scene recently, as he was looking like he was settling in the side.
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Despite getting a nasty blow on the arm, Woakesy is batting well here. Could well go on and get a decent score by the looks of it.
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I'd leave them both in for the rest of the series and then review things.
Vince needs to be given a chance to settle, I don't like the idea of dropping someone if they fail in 2-3 tests, I just don't think you'll ever get a settled and functional team if you do that. Bringing someone in for a one off match to cover injuries (like Ball) is fine but if you've picked someone with a view of them being a regular then they need a fair chance.
For Hales I think he can take no shame from today, the delivery that got him was an absolute snorter that few batsman would've been able to deal with. Overall his record is below par but a decent series against SL means he deserves to see this one out.
Agree with that Paul. I think we have to view this and the following few series in the context of building towards the Ashes next winter. We have a pretty solid lower order in place which looks like:
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
There are also decent options outside that line up, with Buttler able to replace Bairstow, Rashid as another spinner and the likes of Finn, Wood and Ball as back up bowlers. Injuries notwithstanding, that lower order has the potential to develop into a very solid unit by the time we head down under.
The top five, however, is a bit more of a concern with only Cook and Root really being cemented in the side. I'm really not sure that Hales is going to be the answer at opener in the future and although I would give him the rest of the series, I would be looking at other options. If we are just looking at the next 18 months and problems persist, it might be worth bringing Bell back in at five, although it might seem a retrograde step. I don't think there is any need for changes in the rest of this series though.
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Great commentary by Gower, along the lines of.... "Woakes reaches 50 and receives the ultimate accolade of being applauded by the Cookie Monster"
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He could've legitimately shouted "Cookie!" throughout the captain's innings.
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I hope we come out T20 after tea.
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Excellent from Root this.
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Be nice to get 2 or 3 tonight.
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Be nice to get 2 or 3 tonight.
Woakes agrees it appears, great c&b to get Ali for his 2nd.
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Brilliant day for England and, again, Chris Woakes who surely is the best possible example that giving someone the time to make an impression is worth it.
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Brilliant day for England and, again, Chris Woakes who surely is the best possible example that giving someone the time to make an impression is worth it.
Agree Paul. Got to rank right up there with our best days in test cricket.
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Excellent day. I think Woakes is an example of picking players who are in form.
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Superb stuff from Woakes.
Not a huge amount of assistance from the pitch so having them 4 down before the close is good going.
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Excellent day. I think Woakes is an example of picking players who are in form.
That as well but if you look at the stats alone it would've been easy to over look him but the consistency in selection meant he was always top of the list when Stokes got injured and the good form just made the decision easier.
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Brilliant day for England and, again, Chris Woakes who surely is the best possible example that giving someone the time to make an impression is worth it.
Or, the best possible example that dropping someone rather than giving someone time to make a terminal bad impression is worth it.
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Thing is I don't think there's a uniform approach that works. I think they need to assess it all on the individual. Some players are crushed when they're dropped and never recover, others grow from it. I think Finn's form, for example, will benefit from going back to County cricket. At his best he can be one of the best in the world.
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Exactly. It's horses for courses. Vince may react more positively to being dropped, he may react better to be given more time. If the team wins it's easier to give anyone more time.
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I think Vince should stay in. I rate him, but he needs to learn the mentality of a Test player. He can only learn that at this level.
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Vince isn't good enough - as I said, another Adam Lyth. Bell at 4 or 5 would be my choice.
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Vince isn't good enough - as I said, another Adam Lyth. Bell at 4 or 5 would be my choice.
He's not scored enough runs this season to even be considered.
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Brilliant day for England and, again, Chris Woakes who surely is the best possible example that giving someone the time to make an impression is worth it.
Or, the best possible example that dropping someone rather than giving someone time to make a terminal bad impression is worth it.
Yep, dropping him was the correct thing to do, he needed to work on his technique and had to lose his habit of bowling too many bad balls. He couldn't have done that if he was still in the Test team and getting walloped around the field all the time.
Not everyone comes back from being dropped, he had to work bloody hard to get back in, really chuffed for him, he's now pretty much another all-rounder in our team of all-rounders.
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dropping Woakes after the first game was probably fair enough, he wasn't ready. Since then I don't think he's been dropped so much as other people had been out performing him. Losing your place because other people are doing well is fine, that encourages you to put the extra effort in. Losing your place so they can gamble on someone else is the problem and Woakes hasn't had to face that.
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Pakistan 119/8 @ Lunch
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Pakistan 119/8 @ Lunch
179-9 now and trailing by 410. Wonder if England will enforce the follow on or bat for a few hours today and put them totally out of it.
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A couple of hours ago I was going to post some sarcastic remark on here about Cook not enforcing the follow on.
Blow me, he's only gone and decided to bat again.
Do you think someone higher up has had a word and said that they need to preserve ticket sales ?
Even after deciding to bat again, they should have sent out Stokes and Woakes to bat with the aim of scoring quickly.
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Worried about Bowlers workloads apparently............
I hope it doesnt rain much over the next 2 and a bit days
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dropping Woakes after the first game was probably fair enough, he wasn't ready. Since then I don't think he's been dropped so much as other people had been out performing him. Losing your place because other people are doing well is fine, that encourages you to put the extra effort in. Losing your place so they can gamble on someone else is the problem and Woakes hasn't had to face that.
Losing your place because you're "outperformed" and being dropped aren't the same thing? Riiigggghhhhtttt.
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And its raining again.............
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Worried about Bowlers workloads apparently............
I hope it doesnt rain much over the next 2 and a bit days
Broad and Anderson hadn't bowled since lunch
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Gower, Mikey and Shane couldn't come up with any justifiable reason not to enforce the follow-on
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Hales lucky there. Another one day slash at the ball.
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Hales lucky there. Another one day slash at the ball.
Well yeah, but can't you see why he'd do that in this match situation? I imagine they want to score quickly. He'd be playing pretty selfishly if he was leaving lots.
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Hales lucky there. Another one day slash at the ball.
Well yeah, but can't you see why he'd do that in this match situation? I imagine they want to score quickly. He'd be playing pretty selfishly if he was leaving lots.
Yes, but he did that at the start of the second innings of the last test and arguably contributed to the defeat.
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Hales lucky there. Another one day slash at the ball.
Well yeah, but can't you see why he'd do that in this match situation? I imagine they want to score quickly. He'd be playing pretty selfishly if he was leaving lots.
Yes, but he did that at the start of the second innings of the last test and arguably contributed to the defeat.
Maybe so, but that's not really relevant to yesterday's dismissal as the situation is completely different. Also he contributed as much to the Lords defeat as any of the batsmen who made stupid errors.
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Vince isn't good enough - as I said, another Adam Lyth. Bell at 4 or 5 would be my choice.
I’m not sure why Vince was ever picked in the first place to be honest, he hasn’t got any kind of track record in Division 1 of the County Championship. His selection seems to be based on one prolific season in Division 2 against lollipop bowlers. Bell hasn’t been as good as expected this season for Warwicks but is still averaging 40-odd so would be a better choice.
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I'm not really clear on what we're doing here. I suspected a quick blast for half an hour this morning and then declare but they're still there so I don't really understand what he's planning here.
What they are doing well, I suppose, is taking shots as Yasir's confidence. I can't imagine that 260+ for 1 for the match won't be playing on his mind.
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Looks like Cook just wanted to stay out there to get another 100 partnership. If so, that's a bit selfish
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The forecast isn't too bad for today and tomorrow, just the odd shower. We'll win, it's just a matter of when.
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Of course we will win. But I do not understand for the life of me why we didn't make them follow on. The bowlers hadn't done much work and the opposition just want the game to finish.
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Well done Mo.
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Of course we will win. But I do not understand for the life of me why we didn't make them follow on. The bowlers hadn't done much work and the opposition just want the game to finish.
I don't think it really made much diffference, I don't understand either but I don't think it was a wrong decision given there were 7 sessions (pretty much) left in the game and little chance of losing any significant time. It's when we don't enforce it with 4 sessions left (which we did quite a bit a few years back) that it's frustrating because then you're just eating away at your own chances of winning.
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I think it's a poor decision by Cook to bring Broad back on as it's clearly just to try and let him get a wicket. The turn to seamerf in this series - and against Sri lanka - is Chris Woakes. We should be looking to be ruthless and not giving the ball to along-standing England bowler so that we can wrap it up tonight.
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The only thing I can think of re: not following on, was to take the opportunity to rub their bowlers' noses in it. Which we pretty much did, so hopefully a psychological boost for the next two tests.
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And why does only Chris Woakes seem to have an emergency pack of Benson & Hedgehog strapped between his shoulder blades?
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The only thing I can think of re: not following on, was to take the opportunity to rub their bowlers' noses in it. Which we pretty much did, so hopefully a psychological boost for the next two tests.
Yeah I said that earlier but specifically about Yasir.
All over now anyway, fitting for Woakes to take the catch at least, he didn't get Motm last week because we lost, he won't get it this week because we won with the bat and Root drove that but he's comfortably the best player in this series.
EDIT
Wasn't watching and got that the wrong way round, thought it was broad bowling and woakes catching, oops.
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told you
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And why does only Chris Woakes seem to have an emergency pack of Benson & Hedgehog strapped between his shoulder blades?
I think that it's some sort of data collection device used by the sports scientists.
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Woakes really has got a golden arm right now, he must have 12-13 wickets across the 4 matches this summer in the first over of a spell, that's a massive bonus for Cook to know he has someone who can come on and do the business so consistently.
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What price for Woakes to win player of the series without winning a man of the match award?
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Sri Lanka all out for 117 (they won the toss and batted first). Australia 66-2 (rain).
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Given not only his form but now that England have seen what Bears fans have seen for years, that Woakes can bot as well as bowl, it is probably worth replacing Stokes with Rashid. Obviously Ball and Wood would come into the reckoning and I think there will be a temptation to get Wood back in to give him more international miles on the clock. Shift Ali and Woakes up a slot and slot Rashid in. Edgbaston should suit two spinners and given the size of the thrashing we should be able to go in with 3 seamers and do the job.
The batting is still a worry and we seem to have 3 batsman failing too regularly in the top/middle order. But with Root hitting form, Cook looking more assured, and a good 100 runs or so seemingly guaranteed from the Bairstow/Woakes combination it allows us to go in at almost three quarter strength. Not ideal and it is only 1-1 but I'd like to see Hales, Vince, and Ballance given the series. Out of the 3 I think Vince can become a test player but he is a bit over eager to show his attacking instinct which if curbed would turn him into a very good player. I don't think hales can get away with it too often at the top of the order and I think we'll keep with him until Bell-Drummond is trusted.
If the middle order of Vince/Ballance fails again though, and England don't win, the call will be to bring Bell back. Which I don't think we should.
I'd go with
Cook
Hales
Root
Ballance
Vince - think he'd do better at 5 and Ballance at 4. Ballance at 5 doesn't look right.
Bairstow - thought he had a good test at Old Trafford
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
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I think nI'd be picking between Wood and Rashid depending on the pitch, if it looks likely to turn then the extra spinner might be a good idea but if not the quicker, more aggressive seamer is useful.
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Potentially a quite exciting finish in the Sri Lanka-Convictia test.
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Given not only his form but now that England have seen what Bears fans have seen for years, that Woakes can bot as well as bowl, it is probably worth replacing Stokes with Rashid. Obviously Ball and Wood would come into the reckoning and I think there will be a temptation to get Wood back in to give him more international miles on the clock. Shift Ali and Woakes up a slot and slot Rashid in. Edgbaston should suit two spinners and given the size of the thrashing we should be able to go in with 3 seamers and do the job.
The batting is still a worry and we seem to have 3 batsman failing too regularly in the top/middle order. But with Root hitting form, Cook looking more assured, and a good 100 runs or so seemingly guaranteed from the Bairstow/Woakes combination it allows us to go in at almost three quarter strength. Not ideal and it is only 1-1 but I'd like to see Hales, Vince, and Ballance given the series. Out of the 3 I think Vince can become a test player but he is a bit over eager to show his attacking instinct which if curbed would turn him into a very good player. I don't think hales can get away with it too often at the top of the order and I think we'll keep with him until Bell-Drummond is trusted.
If the middle order of Vince/Ballance fails again though, and England don't win, the call will be to bring Bell back. Which I don't think we should.
I'd go with
Cook
Hales
Root
Ballance
Vince - think he'd do better at 5 and Ballance at 4. Ballance at 5 doesn't look right.
Bairstow - thought he had a good test at Old Trafford
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
With Stokes out, I think we will go for the extra seamer Peter, so it will be Finn, Wood or Ball. Bairstow, Ali, Woakes and Brosd will all move one up the order.
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If the middle order of Vince/Ballance fails again though, and England don't win, the call will be to bring Bell back. Which I don't think we should.
I think that has already been started on The Verdict.
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Further proof from Pallekele that test cricket remains the best version of the game.
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Potentially a quite exciting finish in the Sri Lanka-Convictia test.
Great win for Sri Lanka after such a poor first innings.
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Very impressive. Does your heart good too!
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So the Crims lost to Sri Lanka for only the second time.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/sri-lanka-v-australia-2016/content/story/1040633.html
Incredible that the Aussie tail-enders faced 154 deliveries without scoring a run.
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Would give you time to get to the bar a few times ;D
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Interesting discussion on the Cricket Writers Show this morning regarding ECB plans to change T20 in this country to city teams. I'm sure I heard it said on there that the plan was for 8 teams, which I'm guessing would be Birmingham, London, Nottingham, Leeds, Southampton, Bristol and Cardiff. Personally, I would probably make it ten and include another London team and probably Durham playing as Newcastle.
I personally have long thought that is the way it has to go and should be played in one bloc culminating in finals day. Hearing the discussion today, my support for that system has probably been swayed by the fact that Birmingham would be getting a team and I would still be able to watch T20 at Edgbaston. I think that such a move would be unpopular in parts of the country and especially in places like Essex and Somerset where T20 is done very well. It was argued on the show that such a tournament would bring extra TV revenue (also mentioned that at least one game a week would be shown on domestic TV) which would benefit all counties and that there may also be a T20 tournament that runs alongside it.
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Finn in for Stokes.
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Finn in for Stokes.
It was a straight choice between Finn or Ball really. Hopefully Finn can repeat his form from the last time he appeared for England at Edgbaston.
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and Wood, any of the 3 was a reasonable shout. I think Finn would've been 3rd choice for me though because he's only played a few t20 games since he was dropped for being woefully short of form at Lords.
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Gutted as due to other commitments I can not make any of the Test days. Let's hope for the sake of Bears finances we get 5 full days and near sell out for the first 3 to generate good income for the County.
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Gutted as due to other commitments I can not make any of the Test days. Let's hope for the sake of Bears finances we get 5 full days and near sell out for the first 3 to generate good income for the County.
Doing my bit...down there on Friday. Don't think sales are that healthy particularly for the Saturday being a 4th day. Hopefully sales will pick up as Test progresses. Fear of early finish i suppose.
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Pakistan win the toss and put us in.
Must have done their history ...no team won a test at Edgbaston batting first since the Aussie test of 2005.
Sky just came out with that little snippet. When i sit down and think about it i can see it.
What a test that was in 05!!
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I understand that the ground has a bit of a jinx on the team batting first but I'm not sure I agree with their decision, we've just shown them how dangerous we are with runs in hand and how we nullified their best bowler because of it. I think that's a big gamble by them.
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Steady start
36/0
Cook 19
Hales 17
I agree with you Paul-e about decision...as Hales falls ct behind 36/1
Daresay the inquisition will start now.
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Who's this Dan bloke commentating on TMS?
EDIT - I think that its Dan Norcross
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Co7KsxfWYAAHzTv.jpg:large)
EDIT 2 - At least its not Daggers
EDIT 3 - I assume that Aggers the Dressage expert, has left for Rio
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Root gone
Misbah's decision to bowl looks justified now
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Steady start
36/0
Cook 19
Hales 17
I agree with you Paul-e about decision...as Hales falls ct behind 36/1
Daresay the inquisition will start now.
Inquisition for me is that he's been done by a fantastic delivery.
Root gone to a much tamer delivery, that's a big wicket.
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Time for the middle order to turn up for once.
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Hmmm time to step up Vince and Ballance.
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Root gone
Misbah's decision to bowl looks justified now
Bit early for that, let's see I think 300-350 is par so if we can get over that then it's a huge amount of pressure on them, especially if the pitch does get quicker as Woakes and the sky pundits are suggesting.
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It's a poor shot from Root, because his bat was way too far away from his body.
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Now the toss is looking like a better decision with Cook out as well, they've been very aggressive this morning and had reward for it.
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I'm on a train to Devin so I'm following the game on Cricinfo. It's reminiscent of watching football on Teletext!
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Now then Ballance lets see if you can cement your place in the side.
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Up to the middle order to step up now.
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I don't know what to think right now, if we had one of Root or Cook still in you'd say this is pretty much honours even but taking 2 key wickets means they've just about had the better of the session.
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I'm on a train to Devin so I'm following the game on Cricinfo. It's reminiscent of watching football on Teletext!
Can't beat Cricinfo...i use it every day....the best thing to come out of ESPN.
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A healthy run rate but the wickets lost column is disappointing.
We need these two to stick around for the duration.
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I'm on a train to Devin so I'm following the game on Cricinfo. It's reminiscent of watching football on Teletext!
Can't beat Cricinfo...i use it every day....the best thing to come out of ESPN.
I love it. The Cricket anorak in me loves the scorecard archive. I was recently looking at the scorecard for my first ever test at Edgbaston in 1978, the debut test of one D I Gower.
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I'm pretty sure that I was at this game (or so I've been told) but since I was only three, I don't remember
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/545245.html
The last county match at Lydney
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Cricinfo is about the best stats site for any sport I've found, even the play centre gives you brilliant stats about the lengths being bowled, etc.
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bugger, was just building to a nice partnership there, great catch though.
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Not looking good for Vince. He wont get a better opportunity to score big.
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We're in a spot of bother here.
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Lost 3 wickets to what looks like a distinctly mediocre bowler
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Imperative we get through to tea losing no more wickets
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Poor. The middle order is failing again.
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Really poor batting performance again. We've batted well in one test this summer. Not good enough
Cannot keep relying on the bowlers to get them out of trouble
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From Cricinfo:
So far no batsman for England has been out for a duck in this series. 35 England wickets without a duck so far.
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We're in a spot of bother here.
I was writing a rebuttal to that and then Bairstow wafted at a nothing delivery, that's a really bad shot. We need to get around 300 really which means Ballance sticking around and Ali and Woakes offering some support to him.
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Ali really does have to start contributing with the bat on a semi consistent basis. Needs a score here to make up for the horrific way he got out in the 1st test
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Johnners
Blowers
Aggers
Daggers
.......Norcers ?
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Broads batting over the last 5 years or so has been pathetic
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Broads batting over the last 5 years or so has been pathetic
That's because he plays too many one day shots. Ali just did the same to lose his wicket. Leave the wide balls alone ffs!!
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Really disappointing to lose so many wickets to balls that should have been left well alone.
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297 all out. Looks well under par to me.
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Good from Ballance and Mo, less so the rest.
As an aside Broad's batting infuriates me. He puts no effort in. Just playing your shots in some situations isn't good enough.
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297 all out. Looks well under par to me.
Although conditions were tough, I would agree. 330 plus would have been useful if conditions are to remain the same for a few days.
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297 all out. Looks well under par to me.
Although conditions were tough, I would agree. 330 plus would have been useful if conditions are to remain the same for a few days.
I'd disagree that conditions were tough. The wind stopped the ball from swinging for the majority of the day, and there was little in the way of seam movement.
The majority of our batters just played poorly again
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Really poor batting performance again. We've batted well in one test this summer. Not good enough
Cannot keep relying on the bowlers to get them out of trouble
Agree. When we have been a strong international side, we've had five or six batsmen who could produce. I think back to the number of times Strauss, Trott, KP, Bell or Prior would produce a knock when others had failed. As it is, we are currently hugely reliant on Cook and Root, and getting runs from the lower order.
I like Hales, but he needs to come out of the side for the next test and get himself ready for the ODIs.
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297 all out. Looks well under par to me.
Although conditions were tough, I would agree. 330 plus would have been useful if conditions are to remain the same for a few days.
I'd disagree that conditions were tough. The wind stopped the ball from swinging for the majority of the day, and there was little in the way of seam movement.
The majority of our batters just played poorly again
Shall we wait until Pakistan have had a go before going down this road. In my opinion this was was 300-350 pitch so we're a little short but not alarmingly so. I think there was a bit of unpredictable bounce which was the main reason for a lot of the wafts. If that's the case I'd suspect Broad will come into things massively tomorrow.
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Moeen's innings was vital today, as was Ballance's.
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One of Boycott's favourite sayings is "never judge a pitch until both teams have batted on it" and this should apply on this pitch
I was volunteering there until just after tea and Pakistan bowled very well, bowled line and length and watched the English batsmen get themselves out
there were no real demons in the pitch
Both teams strengths are in their bowling units
If Pakistan go on and get 450/475+ we have under performed but if we bowl them out for 200/220 its a decent score
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Windies look like saving the test against India after initially getting another fearful clattering. Roston Chase has become the third West Indian to take five-for and a hundred, and only in his second game too.
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One of Boycott's favourite sayings is "never judge a pitch until both teams have batted on it" and this should apply on this pitch
Happens everytime England get what is considered a low score on H&V. It's been said many times, wait until both sides have had a bat.
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One of Boycott's favourite sayings is "never judge a pitch until both teams have batted on it" and this should apply on this pitch
If Pakistan go on and get 450/475+ we have under performed but if we bowl them out for 200/220 its a decent score
Agree on both counts.
IMO 297 is a very good score against a top attack. I don't expect Pakistan to get anywhere near 400 as they face an equally good attack. 250 is the more likely. All in all it was a fabulous days worth of cricket and let's hope for same tomorrow.
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Pretty poor first session to be honest. The bowling has been very limp. The whole team seems to lose intensity when Stokes isn't involved. We need one of the bowlers to get a bit spikey.
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Ah dropping catches is not really what we need.
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[Tuffers]Steven Finn could really struggle to do a Rumba[/Tuffers]
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Well, I think we're getting the answer as to how good England's first innings score was!
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300 was always going to be 50-100 light at Edgbaston. Not like we were up against a great attack either, it's decent, but we let their backup seamer take a five-for.
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pretty depressing listening on TMS ,but well batted Pakistan.
come on England sort it out will ya...
UTV
The Doc
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Yep demonstrates that England's batting display was pretty dismal. Plus we haven't bowled particularly well. We need a very big session now.
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Test as good as gone barring a miracle.
Our total has now been shown up as woeful. There was nothing in the pitch on day 1. Absolutely no excuse not to get 450/500 on that
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We're facing an absolute hammering here unless we knock over 3 very quickly tomorrow.
As an aside is it me or does Broad look a bit pedestrian this summer?
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2016/08/04/ecb-want-england-to-play-more-twenty20-matches-and-fewer-tests-i/
I would hate this to happen. Test cricket is the pinnacle of the game, and the most interesting form.
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The last ball wicket could be key. I can see Pakistan being restricted to 350.
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The wicket is doing nothing for the seamers which is usual for wickets at that end of the strip in my experience. My understanding is that the ground staff were told to prepare wickets for Swann, and then told to continue with the practice for Jeetan Patel.
A genuine medium paced swing bowler like Barker might get something given some cloud and humidity, but the jig is up for England. Their spinners will wreak havoc.
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Test as good as gone barring a miracle.
Our total has now been shown up as woeful. There was nothing in the pitch on day 1. Absolutely no excuse not to get 450/500 on that
Bit too early for that just yet. Their batting line up is fragile and if we can skittle them out with a small lead then who knows. Anything approaching or over a hundred run lead and we will be right up against it though.
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I've got 2 tickets for tomorrow (Sat) that I can't use if anyone's interested - Stanley Barnes stand.
Apologies if I should have posted this somewhere else.
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336-5 at lunch. The game and series rests on the afternoon session. Whoever comes out on top after this session will take the spoils.
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336-5 at lunch. The game and series rests on the afternoon session. Whoever comes out on top after this session will take the spoils.
I don't know about that. We could take 5 wickets for another 40 runs and we'd be doing well, but Pakistan would definitely be in the box seat.
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Yes Pakistan in charge but get 300 and it could be an interesting last day. Very pleased that Edgy has a competitive test match and almost 5 days play guaranteed.
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England need a very big 3rd innings score here.
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350/400 and as olaftab says it makes for an interesting last day...
UTV
The Doc
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Don't want to tempt fate, but this is a very good start. A long way off at the moment, but time might be an issue in terms of looking to win the game, but should be an interesting last few overs tonight and a good day tomorrow.
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Shown a lot of fight today. Bowled well to restrict Pakistan's lead to 100 on a flat pitch after our poor batting display in the 1st innings.
Solid Start from Cook and Hales. Imperative both are there at stumps. Then we can look to bat all day tomorrow, with a bit of a dart in the last session, get 350 ahead or so and get them in for a few overs tomorrow night.
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Excellent opening stand so far.
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Thats out
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Maybe not!!
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Was fearing the worst on the initial replay
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Nothing infuriates me more in cricket than the use of the nightwatchman.
Please do not lose a wicket.
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Nothing infuriates me more in cricket than the use of the nightwatchman.
Please do not lose a wicket.
Dunno, we used Woakes last time and all that does is give him another chance to rack up a big score.
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Woakes is a bit different, as he's a fine player in his own right.
The regular tailenders, such as Finn, Anderson etc, are so frustrating to watch. If they survive the night, and stay in for a length of time the next morning, they generally slow the scoring rate down.
I just don't agree with the concept. I think a supposedly high class batsman should be able to survive a couple of minutes. You never see the openers having a nightwatchman if a teams innings starts a couple of overs before the end of the day
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Excellent from Cook and Hales. I'm pleased for Hales because I feel that there are lots of people who want him out the team and are looking for a reason. I hope he goes on to get a hundred. He showed real character today.
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No, I don't like it, but now that we bat down to at least 8 then using Woakes isn't so bad.
Often it's the decision of the potential incoming batsman anyway, he might want a night watchman to save him having to "get in" twice.
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Excellent from Cook and Hales. I'm pleased for Hales because I feel that there are lots of people who want him out the team and are looking for a reason. I hope he goes on to get a hundred. He showed real character today.
Hales is a very talented player. His past performances in the ODI and T20 sides have shown that. He's got 5 test fifties now, which to me shows that he can play at test level, he just needs to go on and make a big hundred.
I can't see any openers currently banging the door down in the county game either
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Very enjoyable day at The Home of Cricket.
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The worst was when Hoggard was the night watchman about 10 years ago. He was always out after about 3 balls. I've never liked the concept either
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Herath hattrick
https://youtu.be/8YlQwdMPVjw
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Going down today, and possibly tomorrow depending on the state of the match and the availability of cheap day five tickets.
The weather is good, the match is nicely poised and so its promises to be an intriguing day of test Cricket from two good sides.
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Sri Lanka win by 229!
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Sri Lanka win by 229!
Brilliant.
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Horrible start to the day. Root and Vince need to do a job here.
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All the batsmen doing all the hard work and giving it away again.
Pitch is very flat and a draw likely. We'll need to be careful now though
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This is moving towards a draw orcEngland win with some special bowling. Another 70-80 tonight and we could seriously consider a declaration in the morning.
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A few minutes ago Blowers mistook Bairstow for Moeen. I think that he must have had a few sherries
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Good batting by this pair just what was required. Cook should declare now if he wants to win the match as Pakistan will have to motor to get an unlikely 300 to win so time is important. This has been fantastic test match so far.
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Most of the batting unit has done well today. I was impressed by Vince's 42 as it's laid the platform for great knocks by Mo and Jonny.
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In the past team's in England's position used to bat on for a few overs in the morning based on batting captain can choose the roller. They would choose the heavy roller in the hope that that will help to break up the pitch on the last day however not sure if that is still the case these days?
My view is that if Cook bats on he defensive mindset will deny a win to the only side that can win this match now.
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I thought Hales, Vince and Balance finally started to look like Test players in this innings and deserve a run in the side. Each of them needs a ton though.
Tickets are £16 for tomorrow and judging by the on-line queue that I'm sat in its going to be a decent crowd.
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In the past team's in England's position used to bat on for a few overs in the morning based on batting captain can choose the roller. They would choose the heavy roller in the hope that that will help to break up the pitch on the last day however not sure if that is still the case these days?
My view is that if Cook bats on he defensive mindset will deny a win to the only side that can win this match now.
Cook tends to be quite pragmatic, so I'm sure the approach will be to make sure we don't lose the game first and foremost. I expect we will bat until lunch and have two sessions of bowling.
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In the past team's in England's position used to bat on for a few overs in the morning based on batting captain can choose the roller. They would choose the heavy roller in the hope that that will help to break up the pitch on the last day however not sure if that is still the case these days?
My view is that if Cook bats on he defensive mindset will deny a win to the only side that can win this match now.
Cook tends to be quite pragmatic, so I'm sure the approach will be to make sure we don't lose the game first and foremost. I expect we will bat until lunch and have two sessions of bowling.
I'd tell Bairstow to go out swinging for his century and declare once he's out or got the runs. might only take 4-5 overs out of the game for 20-30 runs but it means a required rate of 4+ an over with a team with a very poor tail and 2-3 batsman who've been out of form, if we want to win we have to give them a sniff, we bat til lunch and they'll just try to defend til stumps.
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In the past team's in England's position used to bat on for a few overs in the morning based on batting captain can choose the roller. They would choose the heavy roller in the hope that that will help to break up the pitch on the last day however not sure if that is still the case these days?
My view is that if Cook bats on he defensive mindset will deny a win to the only side that can win this match now.
Cook tends to be quite pragmatic, so I'm sure the approach will be to make sure we don't lose the game first and foremost. I expect we will bat until lunch and have two sessions of bowling.
I'd tell Bairstow to go out swinging for his century and declare once he's out or got the runs. might only take 4-5 overs out of the game for 20-30 runs but it means a required rate of 4+ an over with a team with a very poor tail and 2-3 batsman who've been out of form, if we want to win we have to give them a sniff, we bat til lunch and they'll just try to defend til stumps.
I agree. They should easily survive 2 sessions on that strip. We need a couple of wickets before lunch to sow the seeds of doubt.
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I was disappointed with the attendance yesterday, just over 15k or so they said on TMS. The Hollies looked pretty full but from my seat in the Motorsport stand, the rest of the ground looked no more than 60% full.
Hopefully the weather, cheap tickets and the prospect of a result will see a better attendance today. I'm in the Stanley Barnes, close enough to the Hollies to see the fun & games but far enough away to enjoy the Cricket!
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In the past team's in England's position used to bat on for a few overs in the morning based on batting captain can choose the roller. They would choose the heavy roller in the hope that that will help to break up the pitch on the last day however not sure if that is still the case these days?
My view is that if Cook bats on he defensive mindset will deny a win to the only side that can win this match now.
Cook tends to be quite pragmatic, so I'm sure the approach will be to make sure we don't lose the game first and foremost. I expect we will bat until lunch and have two sessions of bowling.
I'd tell Bairstow to go out swinging for his century and declare once he's out or got the runs. might only take 4-5 overs out of the game for 20-30 runs but it means a required rate of 4+ an over with a team with a very poor tail and 2-3 batsman who've been out of form, if we want to win we have to give them a sniff, we bat til lunch and they'll just try to defend til stumps.
Exactly that. Go out and swing the bat for as few overs as possible. Try to smash a few boundaries then get stuck into their batsmen ASAP. The pitch seems to have held together pretty well, so a decent last day score is possible for them, so the target needs to be set just right.
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*has a quick check a certain somebody isn't on this thread*
Okay if I spend today with the usual reasonable and well informed folks in here today please?
Reckon Cook will tell Bairstow to get a hundred if he can as quick as possible and declare, although it would make more sense doing it overnight.
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Or maybe not!
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Yawn !!!
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What a pathetic shot from Hafeez
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Great start, awful shot tho.
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Great start to this innings but we need to break this pair quick if we want to have a real shot at winning, not because of a lack of overs but because they had a 181 stand in the last innings and it will affect us if they start to look like building to something similar, especially when we didn't actually break them with our bowling. Once we're over that hurdle I think we can play our natural game a little more and let the wickets just come.
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This pitch is ludicrously flat for a 5th day.
If Pakistan bat remotely sensibly they shouldn't have any problems saving the match
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2 very big wickets there, if we can break this pairing quick as well I'd fancy our chances if we need 5-6 in the last session.
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Pitch looks like winning
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Knew that would do the trick!!
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Happy for Finn, he's bowled really well at times in the series without any luck
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That's the big wicket, if we can keep Sami at the other end from now we should get very close.
On the same note Sami Aslam looks like a fantastic opener in the making, good technique and great temperament.
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This is on.
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5 now
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Get the opener and we can run through their long tail
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See I can understand why they reviewed but even live it looked clear enough to be a waste of a review.
Last batsman in, another wicket just either side of tea and it's in the bag.
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Great stuff from Woakes again.
34 overs at 4 no 11's should be enough to win from here
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Brilliant from Finn!
Should be ours now
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Excellent Finn he's earned that.
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Really poor decision from the umpire there, that's a pretty clear inside edge.
Woakes has had another brilliant spell here, he's got to be man of the series regardless of the last match now, he's been superb.
and there goes Sami, terrible leave but the ball has suddenly come alive and batting looks tough now.
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I've got to say, collectively, this has been a stunning bowling performance this session.
Very flat conditions and our seamers have managed to extract some live out of the surface and have suffocated the Pakistani batsmen. Moeen bowled really well also.
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Really poor decision from the umpire there, that's a pretty clear inside edge.
Woakes has had another brilliant spell here, he's got to be man of the series regardless of the last match now, he's been superb.
and there goes Sami, terrible leave but the ball has suddenly come alive and batting looks tough now.
Most wickets in a series for Eng V Pakistan ever, and that's from just 3 matches. He's been brilliant
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Mo started it with a very good spell and a massive wicket, that breakthrough, as I said at the start of the day, cleared out the mental block that we were faced with a pair that had held out so long in the first innings. Since Azhar went we've looked much more aggressive and then once you get a 4th wicket (Misbah in this case) you can see their heads drop because they know they've got very little left, that's why getting him with a big chunk of the day left was so important, their whole mentality changed at that point and it created a collapse.
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Really poor decision from the umpire there, that's a pretty clear inside edge.
Woakes has had another brilliant spell here, he's got to be man of the series regardless of the last match now, he's been superb.
and there goes Sami, terrible leave but the ball has suddenly come alive and batting looks tough now.
Most wickets in a series for Eng V Pakistan ever, and that's from just 3 matches. He's been brilliant
Yep, his performances in this series are right up there with the best bowling in a series I've ever seen, he's been a bit expensive at times but it's because, early in the innings, he tries to tempt people into big drives. Once the ball gets older he changes and bowls much more aggressively letting the natural swing of the ball do the work.
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8 down, quality from Jimmy
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How have they not won yet.
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There we go, well done Mo. 2 each for the bowlers, pretty much the definition of a team effort.
Anyone have any idea who gets man of the match? Mo for me, 2 good knocks with the bat and got the key wicket and final wicket today.
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Well that was Test Match cricket for you. That's how it crumbles and those out there wanting to reduce it to 4 days please don't.
Any idea on attendance today? In any case very pleased for Warks getting 5 full days play and punters in the ground.
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Well that was Test Match cricket for you. That's how it crumbles and those out there wanting to reduce it to 4 days please don't.
Any idea on attendance today? In any case very pleased for Warks getting 5 full days play and punters in the ground.
Just over 10500, 81+ for the match
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Super team victory from England.
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£16 for a wonderful day in the sun in the Eric Hollies, days don't get much better than that.
Great bowling all round, only one wicket (the first) was really given away. the rest were earned by some great seam bowling and some persistence by Moeen
Apparently only a 3% chance of winning a test when conceding a 100+ run lead from the first innings.
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£16 for a wonderful day in the sun in the Eric Hollies, days don't get much better than that.
Great bowling all round, only one wicket (the first) was really given away. the rest were earned by some great seam bowling and some persistence by Moeen
Apparently only a 3% chance of winning a test when conceding a 100+ run lead from the first innings.
Only the sixth time England have done it. Pretty weak effort from the Pakistanis, but it was an exceptional win.
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Well that was Test Match cricket for you. That's how it crumbles and those out there wanting to reduce it to 4 days please don't.
Any idea on attendance today? In any case very pleased for Warks getting 5 full days play and punters in the ground.
Thoroughly agree. I posted during the match about the ECB's intention to reduce the amount of summer tests to 6. That cannot be allowed to happen either
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Well that was Test Match cricket for you. That's how it crumbles and those out there wanting to reduce it to 4 days please don't.
Any idea on attendance today? In any case very pleased for Warks getting 5 full days play and punters in the ground.
Thoroughly agree. I posted during the match about the ECB's intention to reduce the amount of summer tests to 6. That cannot be allowed to happen either
With you all the way here, i always attend the Edgbaston test whoever the opposition, if Aussies i'll be there every day i only went on Friday to this one and a thoroughly
enjoyable day was had. The only time i will attend an ODI is once again against the Aussies (maybe SA & NZ), i certainly would not attend a T20 international. TV will suffice for me
on those occasions.
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Well that was Test Match cricket for you. That's how it crumbles and those out there wanting to reduce it to 4 days please don't.
Any idea on attendance today? In any case very pleased for Warks getting 5 full days play and punters in the ground.
Thoroughly agree. I posted during the match about the ECB's intention to reduce the amount of summer tests to 6. That cannot be allowed to happen either
With you all the way here, i always attend the Edgbaston test whoever the opposition, if Aussies i'll be there every day i only went on Friday to this one and a thoroughly
enjoyable day was had. The only time i will attend an ODI is once again against the Aussies (maybe SA & NZ), i certainly would not attend a T20 international. TV will suffice for me
on those occasions.
Over 80,000 for all 5 days
and 10,000 for Sunday not bad considering at about 3.00pm on Saturday they had only sold a few hundred tickets
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Apparently only a 3% chance of winning a test when conceding a 100+ run lead from the first innings.
Yes that shouldn't happen but it does due to nerves especially when you were ahead but ducked it up. A bit like leading a football match 2-0 letting opposition equalise and then fearing a loss and actually ending up losing it.
When Pakistan were heading towards 100 runs with only one down the odds lengthened to 4/1 England to win so I stuck £20 on that😊
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Just noticed India struggling at 130/5 at tea v West Indies
Middx made 132/7 in their 20 v Northants
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Middlesex look short. It's also very cold at Abington Road.
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Middlesex look short. It's also very cold at Abington Road.
Loads of injuries haven't they.
Comfortable 7 wkt win for Northants here.
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Just noticed India struggling at 130/5 at tea v West Indies
I watched some of this during/after the T20 QF. The Windies have a 19 year old quick, Alzarri Joseph (first test wicket was Kohli, which is some way to start), who looks like he might be a bit special
After tea, Ashwin and Saha steadied things for India. 234-5 at the close
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As Rashid has been cleared to play for Yorkshire in the hit and occasionally run I think it's safe to say he won't be playing in the Test!
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/37033719
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If England win the current series then we hold all of the trophies (Ashes, Wisden Trophy etc) having won the most recent series against each of the test playing nations.
We could also end up top of the ICC test rankings if results in the India - West Indies series go our way. We are a developing team, being top of the rankings highlights that there is no dominant force in test cricket at the moment.
We have a young squad and if they retain form and stay clear of injuries then we could be in for a golden period of English Cricket.
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Won the toss and batting on an overcast day.
I think the opening hour could be difficult but if we can get through it unscathed then, according the Alec Stewart on TMS there's runs to be had.
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Was it or wasn't it??
No clear angle from TV, Hales was adamant it didn't carry....either way Hales gone cheaply again. The only thing you can say was Yasir Shah happy with the take.
Anyway now 31/1
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Hales gone but looked very controversial, Yasir Shah calls a catch right on the floor neither umpire seemed to have a good view but they gave it on the soft decision anyway and then there were no angles for the TV to show it either way. Hales looked seriously pissed off and from the crappy pictures they gave it looked like he had a point, I can't really understand how the on-field umpires gave it.
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Even though TMS say that the catch clip should be online, I can't find it.
Therefore, I don't know whether the on field decision was correct. However, the logic behind them not reversing seems pretty solid from the TMS explanation
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Bugger....it's Daggers
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpkSOJcXYAQ4CxO.jpg:large)
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Chef gone
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That was a most un-Cook like shot!
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Even though TMS say that the catch clip should be online, I can't find it.
Therefore, I don't know whether the on field decision was correct. However, the logic behind them not reversing seems pretty solid from the TMS explanation
Oh I don't disagree with at, what I'm struggling with a bit is that both umpires seemed unsure so they guessed knowing it was going to tv anyway.
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England have come over all Villa-esque as Root goes
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Really poor from England this morning. Really poor.
All 3 wickets have been so soft.
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Even though TMS say that the catch clip should be online, I can't find it.
Therefore, I don't know whether the on field decision was correct. However, the logic behind them not reversing seems pretty solid from the TMS explanation
Oh I don't disagree with at, what I'm struggling with a bit is that both umpires seemed unsure so they guessed knowing it was going to tv anyway.
It's on the BBC Cricket website now:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/36840120
Still inconclusive and what's more disappointing is the lack of alternative camera angles. Surely there's enough Sky cameras in the ground to cover the whole ground? It's akin to watching the John Player League on BBC2 with one camera.
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It's akin to watching the John Player League on BBC2 with one camera.
When I was a kid, our BBC 2 signal was so bad that there was always ghosting on screen and there were two pitches and two bowlers running in
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What the fuck is going on?
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74-4. Vince gone to a good ball. Pretty poor morning session for England.
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Throwing this series away at the moment. Need to show a lot of fight now
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It's akin to watching the John Player League on BBC2 with one camera.
When I was a kid, our BBC 2 signal was so bad that there was always ghosting on screen and there were two pitches and two bowlers running in
Watching the JPL on a Sunday afternoon really ignited my interest in Cricket.
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There's no need to panic just yet, we do bat very deep and don't judge the match until both sides have batted.
However there is a chance our lower-middle order won't bail us out so it's an important few hours for England.
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There's no need to panic just yet, we do bat very deep and don't judge the match until both sides have batted.
However there is a chance our lower-middle order won't bail us out so it's an important few hours for England.
Just poor from the top order again though. It is becoming the exception when they do well.
Vince got a good ball, but the other 3 got themselves out again.
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There's no need to panic just yet, we do bat very deep and don't judge the match until both sides have batted.
However there is a chance our lower-middle order won't bail us out so it's an important few hours for England.
Just poor from the top order again though. It is becoming the exception when they do well.
Vince got a good ball, but the other 3 got themselves out again.
The run rate before the first wicket went down was pretty healthy. Why do they have to go at over 4 an hour in the first session of the first innings of a test match? I realise that the modern trend is to go after runs but 50-0 is much better than 80-odd for 4. Build a platform FFS!
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There's no need to panic just yet, we do bat very deep and don't judge the match until both sides have batted.
However there is a chance our lower-middle order won't bail us out so it's an important few hours for England.
Just poor from the top order again though. It is becoming the exception when they do well.
Vince got a good ball, but the other 3 got themselves out again.
The run rate before the first wicket went down was pretty healthy. Why do they have to go at over 4 an hour in the first session of the first innings of a test match? I realise that the modern trend is to go after runs but 50-0 is much better than 80-odd for 4. Build a platform FFS!
Yep, I can't help but think there is an unearned arrogance with some of the batsmen
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These two need to bat until tea at least
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There's no need to panic just yet, we do bat very deep and don't judge the match until both sides have batted.
However there is a chance our lower-middle order won't bail us out so it's an important few hours for England.
Just poor from the top order again though. It is becoming the exception when they do well.
Vince got a good ball, but the other 3 got themselves out again.
The run rate before the first wicket went down was pretty healthy. Why do they have to go at over 4 an hour in the first session of the first innings of a test match? I realise that the modern trend is to go after runs but 50-0 is much better than 80-odd for 4. Build a platform FFS!
Yep, I can't help but think there is an unearned arrogance with some of the batsmen
I think it's partly the influence of an Aussie coach and also a generation of players who were schooled in T20 and will play shots regardless.
Imagine a Boycott or a Tavare playing today? There's no way they'd be the steady accumulators that they were.
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Don't worry we'll just have to come from 200 behind to win this one*
*Tongue firmly in cheek
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We were about 68/1 and collapsed to about 77/4.
Keeping up on Cricinfo at work.
*checks weather forecast for London and does a rain dance*
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Another fucking wicket
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Has to be way too high
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Balance really struggles against pace. Riaz has been bowling some balls at 90+ MPH and Balance is pinned back in his crease and is a wicket waiting to fall. His head is in the wrong position and his footwork very leaden.
He looked better at Edgbaston where Riaz wasn't playing so no bowler was getting anywhere near 90MPH. Pakistan are doing to him what the Aussies and the Kiwis did to him last year and those faults remain.
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Pakistan only bowled 24 overs in the 1st session. That's a disgrace.
The only punishment that will alter over rates is penalty runs. It needs to happen and it needs to be harsh. The spectators are consistently being robbed when the full amount of overs aren't bowled
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Pakistan only bowled 24 overs in the 1st session. That's a disgrace.
The only punishment that will alter over rates is penalty runs. It needs to happen and it needs to be harsh. The spectators are consistently being robbed when the full amount of overs aren't bowled
if the weather is good and the lights can be used why can't they makes them bowl the 90 overs in a day ? I know they may finish at 7pm or later but where is the problem with that ?
UTV
The Doc
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Pakistan only bowled 24 overs in the 1st session. That's a disgrace.
The only punishment that will alter over rates is penalty runs. It needs to happen and it needs to be harsh. The spectators are consistently being robbed when the full amount of overs aren't bowled
and banning the captain from the next test, no warnings,excuses
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Pakistan only bowled 24 overs in the 1st session. That's a disgrace.
The only punishment that will alter over rates is penalty runs. It needs to happen and it needs to be harsh. The spectators are consistently being robbed when the full amount of overs aren't bowled
if the weather is good and the lights can be used why can't they makes them bowl the 90 overs in a day ? I know they may finish at 7pm or later but where is the problem with that ?
UTV
The Doc
I agree, it is ridiculous to have the set cut off point. When the sun is still shining and they walk off with only 85 overs bowled it's a slap in the face to the people who have paid a not insignificant amount of money
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Vince failed again. He"s not good enough ffs! Another Adam Lyth.
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Vince failed again. He"s not good enough ffs! Another Adam Lyth.
I think Vince has much more talent than Lyth. His mindset has been largely wrong in the series, where he has felt he needs to score quickly and has invariably got out playing an expansive shot.
I think James Taylor's unfortunate retirement has created a huge hole. Especially when we play in the subcontinent, where he would have been an excellent player of spin.
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I don't think it's fair to criticise Vince today, the ball that got him was a beauty, feel a little for Hales as well, not because the catch was dubious but because it was one that turned big and then went further off the bounce from a pretty full length, getting it away was a decent effort so going to a catch like he did after doing well is pretty galling.
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Vince failed again. He"s not good enough ffs! Another Adam Lyth.
I think Vince has much more talent than Lyth. His mindset has been largely wrong in the series, where he has felt he needs to score quickly and has invariably got out playing an expansive shot.
I think James Taylor's unfortunate retirement has created a huge hole. Especially when we play in the subcontinent, where he would have been an excellent player of spin.
I agree, Vince like Hales has the making of a good test batsman. Both of them just need a decent score to cement their places in the side. I'm still not convinced about Balance though, whose frailty against genuinely fast bowling is clear to see.
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Vince failed again. He"s not good enough ffs! Another Adam Lyth.
I think Vince has much more talent than Lyth. His mindset has been largely wrong in the series, where he has felt he needs to score quickly and has invariably got out playing an expansive shot.
I think James Taylor's unfortunate retirement has created a huge hole. Especially when we play in the subcontinent, where he would have been an excellent player of spin.
I agree, Vince like Hales has the making of a good test batsman. Both of them just need a decent score to cement their places in the side. I'm still not convinced about Balance though, whose frailty against genuinely fast bowling is clear to see.
Yeah. Ballance will probably do well in India if selected, but against good fast bowling he looks at sea. He doesn't appear to watch the ball
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A good stand from Bairstow and Ali has repaired some of the earlier damage but we really need them to be together at stumps.
200-5 off 50 overs at tea.
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Yeah, decent effort from these two. Moeen needs to make the most of being dropped.
Need both to go on and make big hundreds.
Bit of a better effort from Pakistan in that session. 26 overs bowled!!! That was with 9 overs of spin though, so equally as pathetic.
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The third umpire should decide which team is to blame for a slow overate and award/deduct 10 runs per lost over (netting off if necessary)
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England have been just as bad in fairness. I think they only bowled 81 overs one of the days last week. Someone on Twitter successfully asked Alex Hales to pay 10% of his ticket price
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I understand why bumble gets so irate. It's gone 4 and the teams are only just coming onto the field
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Needless, so needless
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Bairstow was looking in great touch and has just thrown his wicket away. He really should have cashed in and gone on to make a big hundred
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This is obviously going to get him out straight away, but Woakes is batting beautifully at the moment. At practically a run a ball and has taken no risks.
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We just need to be selective here. Pakistan on the ropes a little, don't give them any gifts to allow them back into it. They are bowling more than enough bad balls themselves
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Oh for fucks sake
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Why the fuck has he reviewed that?
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Broad really needs to contribute with the bat for a change
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Again as a collective I don't think they're far off the required total here. I firmly believe that we have a team that will get us 600+ runs across 2 innings 9 times out of 10 and that Pakistan are the sort of side that will struggle to get to that. On that basis anything around 300 is competitive, over 350 and the game is ours to lose.
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His batting is truly woeful these days. A genuine no 11
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Again as a collective I don't think they're far off the required total here. I firmly believe that we have a team that will get us 600+ runs across 2 innings 9 times out of 10 and that Pakistan are the sort of side that will struggle to get to that. On that basis anything around 300 is competitive, over 350 and the game is ours to lose.
We had a great chance to completely bat them out of the game today though. Need to make sure we add another 40/50 or so for these last 2 wickets now
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I think Broad needs to be put down to number 11 the next time he bats.
There needs to be a message that him constantly getting out for low scores with the talent he has with the bat is unacceptable
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No need for Finn to throw his wicket away like that.
A decent middle to this innings has been bookended by a poor start and a poor end
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282 for 6 with Pakistan rattled, we should have been looking at 400
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Moeen will be rightly furious if he doesn't get his hundred. Poor from Broad and Finn
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Well played Mo.
Lovely innings at a crucial time. Now don't throw it away!
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Well played Moeen.
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As I say, I think this is a competitive total, the weather tomorrow looks pretty similar to today which means there should be plenty of swing with the new ball which should be good for Anderson and Woakes in particular.
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His selectiveness has been so much better since that utterly horrific shot in the second innings at Lords. That has reflected in his scores
He doesn't need to go hell for leather straight away, he scores at a good pace naturally
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There's going to be about 9 overs lost in the day. It's been a really enjoyable day of cricket all told, but its still a disgrace
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All out 328.
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Gonna get 2 overs at them tonight, when we should be having 11.
I think 350 was about par for the conditions. Will settle for the score after being 74 for 4, but not after being 282 for 6. Moeen was excellent and Bairstow played nicely before playing a poor shot. Top and middle order largely poor again though.
Pakistan batting is still fragile though.
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Not impressed that we've allowed Sohail Khan to take two 5fers against us.
He looks a distinctly average bowler
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Couple tonight would be nice.
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Too high I think
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Too high I think
Glad to be wrong!!!!
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Umpires need to be strong here. Do not allow them to waste time so they dont face another over
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Bang. And the opener is gone!
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That was a good day's play, great knock by Moen and nice to get the wicket before close of play.
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There must have been a temptation to bowl first having won the toss, cloudy conditions today with the forecast for the rest of the game being hot and sunny.
Below par score but Pakistan have a long tail so knock a couple over early and it's game on.
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Well played Mo.
Lovely innings at a crucial time. Now don't throw it away!
To be fair to him, he's produced some good knocks at crucial times during his time in the side.
When Stokes is fit, numbers 6-11 are looking pretty settled now. 1-5 is looking anything but that at the moment though.
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Sounds like a super knock from Mo.
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With regards to slow over rates I think all players should be hit where it hurts, in the pocket. Otherwise why not play on until all scheduled overs have been bowled? The light at 6.30pm is generally OK and if it's murky, they use the floodlights anyway!
Umpires need to be strong and some things like the Vince referral yesterday seem to take an age to resolve. It'd wouldn't take much to remove some delays. Players are used to time cut off restrictions in ODI's and T20's so they should easily adapt in tests.
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This looks a good pitch with naff-all swing. Could be a hard day...bring on Woakes.
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The subject of a recent discussion between Daggers and Tuffers
I am finding Charles slightly less annoying these days
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Been crap so far today
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I am finding Charles slightly less annoying these days
Same here, now I've got used to his voice. I think James Taylor is excellent, obviously rather he was healthy and still playing but he's a very welcome addition to the radio team, hopefully he'll eventually replace Swann (or better still Vaughan) on the TMS team.
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Unbelievably poor drop from Hales
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Unbelievably poor drop from Hales
It was, as they say a dolly.
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Come on this is getting silly now England
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What is going on? Why is our catching so pathetic?
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Three dropped catches in the morning session is poor. 97-5 at lunch looks a whole better that 97-2.
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This is pretty ordinary at the moment from England. Don't remotely look like taking a wicket
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This is rubbish at the moment
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For a good bowling attack, we have too many of these poor days when conditions are flatter.
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Dropped too many chances today.
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Not good enough from England. Only taken 2 wickets and one of those was the nightwatchman.
In danger of throwing this series away unless they can massively improve.
Cook and Bayliss really need to put a rocket up them during tea
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Not looking great at the moment.
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320 for 6 now. Perhaps a chance of a couple more tonight it wouldn't be too bad.
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There's some pretty good movement with the new ball.
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In the game still just about. Not sure we deserve to be. Batted poorly on the whole, bowled averagely at best and fielded shockingly.
Need to keep their lead around 50
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twr I think you are being a bit harsh on England. Yes losing 5 very quickly yesterday was bad but the team showed sort of recovery associated with very good outfits to take it to 328. Today it has been difficult but it's not a bad position. Remember this very good batting strip will take spin on the last two days and team batting last will be vulnerable to that. All in all couple of very good days of Test match cricket.
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Yasir has been ineffective since the Lords test so he shouldn't pose too many problems* but we must get enough of a lead to enable us to bowl Moeen Ali for a long spell whilst rotating the seamers at the other end. There's a job to do with the ball first though.
What really boils my piss is that the final test of the International summer finishes in mid-August. There's a month of the season left and it's stuffed with ODI's.
*if he gets a 5-fer it's not my fault.
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In the game still just about. Not sure we deserve to be. Batted poorly on the whole, bowled averagely at best and fielded shockingly.
Need to keep their lead around 50
Not sure about that after what happened in the last test.
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Very poor we look certain to lose this game. The batting just hasn't been good enough for a lot of the series. We're not get anywhere near enough significant contributions from three of our main batsmen.
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Vince useless again. DROP HIM!
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Vince useless again. DROP HIM!
Think the batting line up needs to be changed going to India. Hales, Vince and Ballance haven't contributed and I think Ballance could buy himself time with a good score in this innings, but changes are needed.
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We are two batsman away from a great side here, the bowlers are fine, the all-rounders in Woakes, Stokes and Bairstow are fine, Cook and Root are fine, just need to find a couple of top order batsmen or get Vince, Hales and whoever is in for when Stokes is injured to find some form.
We aren't far away.
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I don't get to really see or follow County cricket too closely from here but I've really no idea what they see in Hales or Vince.
Both of them look massively out of their depth. Good bowling will sort them out every time.
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2-2 at home against Pakistan isn't good in all honesty. We should be beating them comfortably in our conditions.
We've been poor in this match. Batting on the first day simply wasn't good enough. We should have got 450 minimum on that pitch. Bowling was mediocre at best and the fielding has been horrendous.
There is clearly a lot to build on with the nucleus of players we have. I'd agree that we need to find 2 batsmen. We do need to find a top quality spinner. Moeen is a decent second spinner at test level, but no more than that.
I do fear that we will be destroyed in India. They will clearly produce pitches that spin massively
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2-2 at home against Pakistan isn't good in all honesty. We should be beating them comfortably in our conditions.
Errr NO. They are up there amongst the top two world ranking test sides. There is a reason for that! Their bowling attack is probably the best if not the best in the world at the moment. It's their batting fragility in the middle and tail that has allowed England to stay in this series so please give a little credit to England. 2-2 would be very good.
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2-2 at home against Pakistan isn't good in all honesty. We should be beating them comfortably in our conditions.
Errr NO. They are up there amongst the top two world ranking test sides. There is a reason for that! Their bowling attack is probably the best if not the best in the world at the moment. It's their batting fragility in the middle and tail that has allowed England to stay in this series so please give a little credit to England. 2-2 would be very good.
I disagree. England drawing a test series at home is not good against anyone.
Pakistan are a decent side, there's no denying that. However, their recent record away from home is poor and their pitches in the UAE are doctored so much in their favour.
England have been mostly below par batting wise apart from the Old Trafford test. Our batsmen far far too often have just thrown their wickets away.
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Just as I say that, we throw yet another wicket away. Abysmal shot from Ballance
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Has the line really been drawn under Ian Bell's Test career?
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Yet again we have a series where we haven't prepared pitches that suit our attack. Why????
I think these sides are well matched and a 2-2 draw is hardly the end of the world.
The batting is a worry, but it has been for a long while. We constantly lose wickets in clusters and if Cook & Root fail we struggle. The line up for the Bangladesh & India series will be interesting.
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Has the line really been drawn under Ian Bell's Test career?
He isn't scoring enough runs this summer. One of the journos said on the cricket writers show that it appears Bell is playing this summer like he doesn't really want to get his place back, that it appears he's happy with a comfortable life in county cricket.
I'm a big Bell fan, and for me he is easily within the top 6 batsmen in the country. If he scored some runs then I don't think the selectors would have any choice but to go back to him.
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Has the line really been drawn under Ian Bell's Test career?
He is averaging 37.08 off 11 innings and is 48th on the averages list.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/county-championship-division-one/averages
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Yet again we have a series where we haven't prepared pitches that suit our attack. Why????
The Oval in particular has regularly been an issue with that.
We have a comparatively poor record at the Oval. We really should not play there. It certainly should not be guaranteed a test match each summer
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Unfortunately they won't remove the Oval from the test rota.
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It is wrong that London is guaranteed 3 test matches each summer.
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It is wrong that London is guaranteed 3 test matches each summer.
Lords will always get two because touring sides want to play at the home of cricket. The Oval gets good crowds, the attendances at Edgbaston & Old Trafford were poor.
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This is clearly still a very very flat pitch. To be 4 down for under 80 on it twice is unforgivable.
Good fight by Bairstow and Ali this morning, but no way they should have been left in this position
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Farcical run out.
Broad, Finn and Anderson left. 3 no 11's
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Farcical run out.
Broad, Finn and Anderson left. 3 no 11's
Now that's not fair. Broad averages 22 after 97 matches, with a Test hundred to his name.
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Farcical run out.
Broad, Finn and Anderson left. 3 no 11's
Now that's not fair. Broad averages 22 after 97 matches, with a Test hundred to his name.
Whats his average in his last 30 tests ?? and that Test hundred was possibly over 5 years ago
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Farcical run out.
Broad, Finn and Anderson left. 3 no 11's
Now that's not fair. Broad averages 22 after 97 matches, with a Test hundred to his name.
Whats his average in his last 30 tests ?? and that Test hundred was possibly over 5 years ago
So he's in prolonged bad batting form. So what? That doesn't make him a 'number 11' like Finn is.
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Farcical run out.
Broad, Finn and Anderson left. 3 no 11's
Now that's not fair. Broad averages 22 after 97 matches, with a Test hundred to his name.
Whats his average in his last 30 tests ?? and that Test hundred was possibly over 5 years ago
So he's in prolonged bad batting form. So what? That doesn't make him a 'number 11' like Finn is.
I'd say his prolonged bad batting has lasted about 5 years. I think he has played like a number 11 for a large period of time now. It's been especially bad since he got hit by Varun Aaron a couple of years ago, but it was rapidly on the decline before that.
Happy to be proven wrong with him making a big century here
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Ha, I think the prospect of a Broad hundred is extremely remote, sure. Nonetheless, an average of 22 ain't too bad.
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Ha, I think the prospect of a Broad hundred is extremely remote, sure. Nonetheless, an average of 22 ain't too bad.
It's a good average for a no 9. Unfortunately that is no longer what he contributes to the team.
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Farcical run out.
Broad, Finn and Anderson left. 3 no 11's
Now that's not fair. Broad averages 22 after 97 matches, with a Test hundred to his name.
Whats his average in his last 30 tests ?? and that Test hundred was possibly over 5 years ago
So he's in prolonged bad batting form. So what? That doesn't make him a 'number 11' like Finn is.
His batting is in terminal decline and maybe putting him at no 11 may encourage him to do something about it as he is a talented batsmen - You disagree I know but that is my opinion
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Farcical run out.
Broad, Finn and Anderson left. 3 no 11's
Now that's not fair. Broad averages 22 after 97 matches, with a Test hundred to his name.
Whats his average in his last 30 tests ?? and that Test hundred was possibly over 5 years ago
So he's in prolonged bad batting form. So what? That doesn't make him a 'number 11' like Finn is.
His batting is in terminal decline and maybe putting him at no 11 may encourage him to do something about it as he is a talented batsmen - You disagree I know but that is my opinion
Actually, that might not be such a bad idea! Because he is better than no. 11, but not showing it enough at the moment.
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That was a disappointing result and clearly we are still a work in progress. What I don't understand with this England side is how they can produce such extreme results. Fantastic wins one week and awful defeats the next. It was the same in last year's Ashes. It does make you question whether the problem is psychological, because most of them are technically very good.
It's been a fantastic series and the sides are well matched. It was the most harmonious series against Pakistan that I can remember for a while. Ultimately Pakistan probably edged it and it's a shame that it's only a 4 test series.
Misbah was man of the series for Pakistan and our own Chris Woakes was man of the series for England. Both richly deserved.
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That was a disappointing result and clearly we are still a work in progress. What I don't understand with this England side is how they can produce such extreme results. Fantastic wins one week and awful defeats the next. It was the same in last year's Ashes. It does make you question whether the problem is psychological, because most of them are technically very good.
It's been a fantastic series and the sides are well matched. It was the most harmonious series against Pakistan that I can remember for a while. Ultimately Pakistan probably edged it and it's a shame that it's only a 4 test series.
Misbah was man of the series for Pakistan and our own Chris Woakes was man of the series for England. Both richly deserved.
I disagree with that bold bit, we've had the best bowler and the 3 best batsman in the series, our problem is that in 2 matches the rest of the attack have failed to backup woakes and we've had 2-3 of the top 5 who've struggled for form. They've had 2 fantastic individual batting performances in the matches where we've struggled with the ball and their attack is good enough to take advantage of those.
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That was a disappointing result and clearly we are still a work in progress. What I don't understand with this England side is how they can produce such extreme results. Fantastic wins one week and awful defeats the next. It was the same in last year's Ashes. It does make you question whether the problem is psychological, because most of them are technically very good.
It's been a fantastic series and the sides are well matched. It was the most harmonious series against Pakistan that I can remember for a while. Ultimately Pakistan probably edged it and it's a shame that it's only a 4 test series.
Misbah was man of the series for Pakistan and our own Chris Woakes was man of the series for England. Both richly deserved.
I disagree with that bold bit, we've had the best bowler and the 3 best batsman in the series, our problem is that in 2 matches the rest of the attack have failed to backup woakes and we've had 2-3 of the top 5 who've struggled for form. They've had 2 fantastic individual batting performances in the matches where we've struggled with the ball and their attack is good enough to take advantage of those.
I'm not sure.
You could argue that if it wasn't for the capitulation during the afternoon session on the last day at Edgbaston then they would have won the series.
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Stokes is a huge miss when he's out for England. He brings an intensity out of the side that just doesn't seem to be there without him.
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Stokes is a huge miss when he's out for England. He brings an intensity out of the side that just doesn't seem to be there without him.
That's a fair point Paul. Both of Pakistan's wins have come when he hasn't played
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He's also probably our best fielder and it's the intensity in the field that makes the huge difference.
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Drawn series is probably a fair result. We have some issues with the top order to sort out building towards the Ashes next winter. To be fair, we've probably come across arguably the best all round bowling attack in the world (I think the presence of Shah puts their attack ahead of the Australians and South Africans), but we need to have a look at it.
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That was a disappointing result and clearly we are still a work in progress. What I don't understand with this England side is how they can produce such extreme results. Fantastic wins one week and awful defeats the next. It was the same in last year's Ashes. It does make you question whether the problem is psychological, because most of them are technically very good.
It's been a fantastic series and the sides are well matched. It was the most harmonious series against Pakistan that I can remember for a while. Ultimately Pakistan probably edged it and it's a shame that it's only a 4 test series.
Misbah was man of the series for Pakistan and our own Chris Woakes was man of the series for England. Both richly deserved.
I disagree with that bold bit, we've had the best bowler and the 3 best batsman in the series, our problem is that in 2 matches the rest of the attack have failed to backup woakes and we've had 2-3 of the top 5 who've struggled for form. They've had 2 fantastic individual batting performances in the matches where we've struggled with the ball and their attack is good enough to take advantage of those.
paul e I think you have agreed with VFL' comments in bold by the very reasons you have mentioned. Plus they were playing in unfamiliar conditions.
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Stokes is a huge miss when he's out for England. He brings an intensity out of the side that just doesn't seem to be there without him.
Yes absolutely correct.
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Fantastic series and as many have said a fair outcome. Good to see a result in all 4 Tests and I particularly enjoyed the 5 dayer at "our place".
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Interesting finish to the Sri Lanka - Aus game. Day five, afternoon session, Aus are 115-4 needing another 209.
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115-5. Henriques run out by a micron.
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Thanks for the tip, will follow the game on Cricinfo, which is like watching football on Teletext back in the day!
This has been an intriguing series. The number one ranked test side, Australia being outplayed by Sri Lanka, who at the start of the series were ranked 7th.
it highlights that there is no stand out test side in world cricket at the moment.
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Fuck me, Australia really are average. Just lost 83-10 to lose this Test. Flat track bully's with all the heart of Kevin Keegan. When the going gets tough they fold like a cheap deck chair.
Having a shocking Olympics too.
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At lunch they looked in the game - the declaration gave them just enough to go for. Shame.
Mind you, the ball was pitching from the spinners and raising gouts of earth, which was what the Indians did to South Africa last year, and what I fear they'll do to us later on.
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Fuck me, Australia really are average. Just lost 83-10 to lose this Test. Flat track bully's with all the heart of Kevin Keegan. When the going gets tough they fold like a cheap deck chair.
Pretty much describes every Test team out there these days, really, providing the conditions are right.
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Fuck me, Australia really are average. Just lost 83-10 to lose this Test. Flat track bully's with all the heart of Kevin Keegan. When the going gets tough they fold like a cheap deck chair.
Having a shocking Olympics too.
They will struggle with that won't they OzVilla? Being successful at sport is part of their national psyche. It will be made all the worse by Team GB doing so well and the small matter of the Ashes belonging to us. Again.
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I think what that, and the performances of most of the test sides in the last few years, shows is that bowling is dominant in red ball cricket. Personally I'm all for that because the batsman are totally dominant in the white ball game and have been for years. This is also why I keep saying that 300-350 is enough to be competitive in most conditions and why i think the complaints about our top order are a little over the top.
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Brainless from Cook to bat first on a green wicket with Anderson & Woakes waiting to pounce. Predictable, sadly; Cook must have the worst record of any Test captain if you tot up the final-match-in-a-series stats.
I'd ask Mo to bat at five in India as a way of both strengthening the upper order and as a way of getting Rashid into the side. then Stokes, Jonny, Woakesy, Rashid, who can all bat well then Anderson & Broad (in that order at the moment).
Looks like the selectors need to come up with a new name for no. 4.
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Fuck me, Australia really are average. Just lost 83-10 to lose this Test. Flat track bully's with all the heart of Kevin Keegan. When the going gets tough they fold like a cheap deck chair.
Having a shocking Olympics too.
They will struggle with that won't they OzVilla? Being successful at sport is part of their national psyche. It will be made all the worse by Team GB doing so well and the small matter of the Ashes belonging to us. Again.
Whitewashed in Sri Lanka at cricket.
Whitewashed at home by England in the rugby.
A very poor Olympics.
Smashed 42-8 by NZ at rugby after being caught bugging the All Blacks team hotel rooms.
Fucking tremendous Bruce.
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Reports in the Guardian today that Bayliss has sounded Bell out going on the winter tours to Bangladesh and India.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/22/ian-bell-under-consideration-england-test-recall-bangladesh-india-trevor-bayliss
I can see where he's coming from, the batting line up is very inexperienced apart from Cook and Root and Bell's record in Asia is pretty good. However I do question whether he has the hunger to play test cricket again. He's not had the best season in red ball cricket and he needed to score big runs to keep himself in the selector's mind. He hasn't done that. I also think that his selection would go against Bayliss's usual method of going for the young and hungry. Bell is neither young or hungry.
I think there's a chance that Haseem Hameed the Lancashire opener could be fast tracked. I think that if he has the temperament and technique then throw him in. They did the same with Cook and Root and it worked. Others may have failed the test so a tour of Bangladesh might just be the ideal introduction to test cricket for a 19 year old.
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I like Bell but picking him again would be a backwards step, particularly when he hasn't been overly amazing for the Bears.
Bangladesh is a piss easy tour and a chance for a young batsman to score loads of runs and boost his confidence... exactly like Bell himself did when he was just starting out.
I haven't followed domestic cricket closely enough to know who the best candidate would be though.
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England should take one (or more) of Bell-Drummond, Malan and Duckett
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Going purely on averages - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/county-championship-division-one/averages - Nick Gubbins and Haseeb Hameed (as mentioned above) should be right at the front of the queue. From div 2 I suspect Daniel Bell-Drummond is being looked at, his name has been mentioned a few times and Ben Duckett is clearly in the mix. I'd pick 2-3 of those and take them on the tour, even if they don't play they should be looked alongside the main squad.
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I'm at work, but for anyone with Sky TV England vs Pakistan is on Sky Sports Mix today (407). It's free for all Sky TV customers.
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England: Alex Hales, Jason Roy, Joe Root, Eoin Morgan (capt), Ben Stokes, Jos Buttler, Moeen Ali, Chris Woakes, Adil Rashid, Liam Plunkett, Mark Wood
I'm not sure how Willey has missed out there, he'd be one of the first names down for me, probably ahead of Plunkett. I'd have been tempted to try to find a spot for Bairstow as well but I'm not sure how you fit him in.
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Willey was injured and is making his way back I think, he'll be actively with the squad from tomorrow.
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Drinks break taken after 17.1 overs. That's a bit bizarre.
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Willey was injured and is making his way back I think, he'll be actively with the squad from tomorrow.
Ah ok, that makes sense then, for me he's the form white ball player in the country so I want him to play as much as possible.
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England: Alex Hales, Jason Roy, Joe Root, Eoin Morgan (capt), Ben Stokes, Jos Buttler, Moeen Ali, Chris Woakes, Adil Rashid, Liam Plunkett, Mark Wood
I'm not sure how Willey has missed out there, he'd be one of the first names down for me, probably ahead of Plunkett. I'd have been tempted to try to find a spot for Bairstow as well but I'm not sure how you fit him in.
I wonderr if Morgan himself might be the problem here? I rate him as a captain, actually, but to end up in a situation where we can't fit in Johnny Bairstow is on the bizarre side.
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England: Alex Hales, Jason Roy, Joe Root, Eoin Morgan (capt), Ben Stokes, Jos Buttler, Moeen Ali, Chris Woakes, Adil Rashid, Liam Plunkett, Mark Wood
I'm not sure how Willey has missed out there, he'd be one of the first names down for me, probably ahead of Plunkett. I'd have been tempted to try to find a spot for Bairstow as well but I'm not sure how you fit him in.
I wonder if Morgan himself might be the problem here? I rate him as a captain, actually, but to end up in a situation where we can't fit in Johnny Bairstow is on the bizarre side.
I agree, but he is a good captain and he does add experience in a fairly inexperienced side. I think Stokes in as a batsman rather than a bowler/all-rounder would be my point of contention, I'm not sure his white ball batting is good enough to justify that even if it is as part of getting him fit to play a more complete role in the next game.
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I agree with that definitely, you get Stokes in to add to both sides of the game because otherwise you're just adding half a player (or at least you run the risk of doing so). I'd rather not be playing people into fitness just to be nice to them - Bairstow should've been playing today.
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If they're not going to play Bairstow I hope they'll release him for he one day semi final at the weekend, it's no wonder they get poor crowds when the all singing and dancing 50 over competition sees the semi finals clashing with an International one day series.
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Wicket at a decent time for England.
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Going purely on averages - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/county-championship-division-one/averages - Nick Gubbins and Haseeb Hameed (as mentioned above) should be right at the front of the queue. From div 2 I suspect Daniel Bell-Drummond is being looked at, his name has been mentioned a few times and Ben Duckett is clearly in the mix. I'd pick 2-3 of those and take them on the tour, even if they don't play they should be looked alongside the main squad.
I'd like to see DBD as the opener taken on the tour rather than Hameed. I know his runs are in Division 2, but to me it seems too early to take a 19-year-old based on 1 good season.
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Going purely on averages - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/county-championship-division-one/averages - Nick Gubbins and Haseeb Hameed (as mentioned above) should be right at the front of the queue. From div 2 I suspect Daniel Bell-Drummond is being looked at, his name has been mentioned a few times and Ben Duckett is clearly in the mix. I'd pick 2-3 of those and take them on the tour, even if they don't play they should be looked alongside the main squad.
I'd like to see DBD as the opener taken on the tour rather than Hameed. I know his runs are in Division 2, but to me it seems too early to take a 19-year-old based on 1 good season.
Yeah, I think I'd have him and Duckett slightly ahead. I think all 4 of them will get a chance over the next couple of years (as will Sam Hain) so no need to rush anything.
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Going purely on averages - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/county-championship-division-one/averages - Nick Gubbins and Haseeb Hameed (as mentioned above) should be right at the front of the queue. From div 2 I suspect Daniel Bell-Drummond is being looked at, his name has been mentioned a few times and Ben Duckett is clearly in the mix. I'd pick 2-3 of those and take them on the tour, even if they don't play they should be looked alongside the main squad.
I'd like to see DBD as the opener taken on the tour rather than Hameed. I know his runs are in Division 2, but to me it seems too early to take a 19-year-old based on 1 good season.
Duckett is a very good player but I fear he may become a One-Day specialist for England rather than a Test player, we shall see.
Yeah, I think I'd have him and Duckett slightly ahead. I think all 4 of them will get a chance over the next couple of years (as will Sam Hain) so no need to rush anything.
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I think Hain has had a couple of average seasons and may have slipped back in the England reckoning.
As we're touring Bangladesh first I think that there's a distinct possibility that they will take a couple of rookies with someone like Bell coming back as a short-term option at number 5 thus providing vital experience. A tour in Bangladesh will be a gentle introduction to the rigours of test cricket for the likes of Bell-Drummond and Hameed. I can also see them resting Anderson and/or Broad too as that will allow them to play extra spinners.
I personally don't agree with the idea of bringing Bell back but as a short term fix it could help solve long term problems with our top order.
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Duckett will be a star and I think Hameed looks a very good player.
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I think you might be right with Hain but I also think, from what I've seen, he has the talent to be a fantastic batsman and his form in the shorter formats this season has been very good, just seems to be struggling in the championship.
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England at Lords today for the ODI against Pakistan. Most likely lose this one. England rarely win at Lords, should be more matches at Edgbaston!
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Pakistan won the toss and elected to bat.
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Chris Woakes has struck early doors. 2/1.
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Off stump sent flying by Wood. Great start by England.
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Woakes strikes again. 2 for 3. Tuffers reckons Pakistan srr shagged out after a long squawk.
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It's great to see Woakes and Broad really showing their worth this summer, Woakes especially.
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Good effort from the England bowlers. 208/6 after 45 overs. But the atmosphere at Lords is more like a morgue.
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Superb bowling from woakes and wood. Add stokes and willey and this is a brilliant young attack.
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Did May have to go in the ballot to get tickets for this one?
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Good knock so far from Hayles. He could well get a huge score here.
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Big innings for Hales today.
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Hales passes Robin Smith's record for England's highest ODI score and gets out next ball which is a shame. He could have got 250 there.
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Buttler 53 from 22.
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This is a bonkers innings.
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Pakistan have bowled some absolute dross and look like they can't wait to go home.
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For all of the carnage that went before it, that was a good last over for Pakistan. It was bowled with skill and intelligence by Hasan Ali.
444-3 gives England the highest ODI score ever.
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I know that I'm going out on a limb here but I don't think that Pakistan will get these
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Pakistan have bowled some absolute dross and look like they can't wait to go home.
However, as Wasim said on Sky, there's a few players in the ODI team that weren't involved in the Tests. I know that some were already over here for the A tour (and thus already hammered around by Duckett et al) but I think there's a few new players
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We look a really decent 50 over side at the moment. It's a pretty settled nod as well, though if Finn could find some form then he would be a decent option.
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We look a really decent 50 over side at the moment. It's a pretty settled nod as well, though if Finn could find some form then he would be a decent option.
I think Willey is the only player you'd add to this right now. There is an argument for Bairstow but when we have just broken the record for batting that becomes a hard sell
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Will England enforce the follow-on ? :)
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Highest score in ODI history by a Number Eleven.
Amir now has 50
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Fitting that Worked took the final wicket as c&b this entire tour has been his and, as I said on the domestic thread, he really is the form player and is the clear positive for the simmer.
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he really is the form player and is the clear positive for the simmer.
Have you been watching repeats of 'Allo 'Allo!
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We look a really decent 50 over side at the moment. It's a pretty settled nod as well, though if Finn could find some form then he would be a decent option.
I think Willey is the only player you'd add to this right now. There is an argument for Bairstow but when we have just broken the record for batting that becomes a hard sell
There is of course the option not to add anyone at the moment!! I think the top nine of Hales, Roy, Root, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes and Rashid looks really good and that just leaves two bowlers. Great to see Wood back and he was bowling over 90mph at times tonight.
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he really is the form player and is the clear positive for the simmer.
Have you been watching repeats of 'Allo 'Allo!
I'm not sure how that auto correct happened, I can't recall ever trying to type simmer on my phone.
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We look a really decent 50 over side at the moment. It's a pretty settled nod as well, though if Finn could find some form then he would be a decent option.
I think Willey is the only player you'd add to this right now. There is an argument for Bairstow but when we have just broken the record for batting that becomes a hard sell
There is of course the option not to add anyone at the moment!! I think the top nine of Hales, Roy, Root, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes and Rashid looks really good and that just leaves two bowlers. Great to see Wood back and he was bowling over 90mph at times tonight.
Of course, I'm just saying that if you go entirely by form then Willey is the only player you'd think of adding at the moment. That is a fairly huge change from a couple of years back.
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Andrew Samson is very good but I do enjoy listening to Andy Zaltzman as celebrity statto
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We look a really decent 50 over side at the moment. It's a pretty settled nod as well, though if Finn could find some form then he would be a decent option.
I think Willey is the only player you'd add to this right now. There is an argument for Bairstow but when we have just broken the record for batting that becomes a hard sell
There is of course the option not to add anyone at the moment!! I think the top nine of Hales, Roy, Root, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes and Rashid looks really good and that just leaves two bowlers. Great to see Wood back and he was bowling over 90mph at times tonight.
Of course, I'm just saying that if you go entirely by form then Willey is the only player you'd think of adding at the moment. That is a fairly huge change from a couple of years back.
Definitely Paul. Just such a shame Tymal Mills has got the injury problems he has, as a real express bowler is all we are lacking in the ODI team at the minute.
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I wouldn't want to face Tymal Mills in anything less that a full suit of armour
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Mills is a huge loss, could've been a real star with his raw pace
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Debut for Liam Dawson in today's ODI. Good call that I think, doesn't harm the batting line-up and we get to see if his bowling is up to anything at this level.
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Pakistans very own Taff gets Morgan Ct & B 10
92/3
Wasim Imad born in Swansea apparently
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''Welsh born Pakistan spinner removes Irish born England skipper''
Roy 50 (50) 7 x 4's
99/3 15.4
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Struggling to watch this t20 with all the fucking horns.
Tanvir bowls off the wrong foot and it's making me twitchy, looks totally wrong. Watch him if you don't know what I mean
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No Woakes?? Surely better than Jordan or Willey?
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Struggling to watch this t20 with all the fucking horns.
Tanvir bowls off the wrong foot and it's making me twitchy, looks totally wrong. Watch him if you don't know what I mean
I forgot they were playing. I can't be bothered to get up out of my armchair and switch the TV on.
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No Woakes?? Surely better than Jordan or Willey?
They're probably resting Woakes and Jordan is one of our best bowlers in this formant plus Willey needs match experience.
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Brilliant start from Hales, 31 from 16.
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Roy gone lbw for 21. Easiest decision the umpire will ever have.
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No Woakes?? Surely better than Jordan or Willey?
They're probably resting Woakes and Jordan is one of our best bowlers in this formant plus Willey needs match experience.
Resting? It's T20. You play your best team - this is a one-off game in this format. Woakes is better than Jordan and Willey. He must be miffed.
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No Woakes?? Surely better than Jordan or Willey?
They're probably resting Woakes and Jordan is one of our best bowlers in this formant plus Willey needs match experience.
I don't think Woakes is as good as Jordan specifically in the role Jordan is occupying. He's one of the best death bowlers in the world. Woakes is a better player all round, but not a 20/20 death bowler.
Resting? It's T20. You play your best team - this is a one-off game in this format. Woakes is better than Jordan and Willey. He must be miffed.
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Poor shots by Roy and Hales. Playing across the line to a good spinner. Root gone now!
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No Woakes?? Surely better than Jordan or Willey?
They're probably resting Woakes and Jordan is one of our best bowlers in this formant plus Willey needs match experience.
Resting? It's T20. You play your best team - this is a one-off game in this format. Woakes is better than Jordan and Willey. He must be miffed.
I'm not sure about that, Willey is a superb t20 bowler and Jordan's yorkers can make a big difference. Big change in the game the last over or 2.
67/3 now and 2 new batsmen in.
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Rubbish from Jordan! I'll say it again WOAKES is the better player! Willey also being hit round the park.
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Rubbish from Jordan! I'll say it again WOAKES is the better player! Willey also being hit round the park.
You say with glee. Jordan is primarily there for death bowling. It's the batting that's killed England here.
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Rubbish from Jordan! I'll say it again WOAKES is the better player! Willey also being hit round the park.
No point getting upset about a match everybody will have forgotten about this time next week.
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Woakes isn't usually in the T20 squad anyway and to be fair the team tonight also started the World Final this year.
Just a case of we didn't play well and Pakistan were very good.
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Yes the match tonight was just an entertainment event and will not matter on the whole in how England progress from here.
Overall though cricket has been the big winner in this series of Test matches and one dayers. I am pleased that a series between England and Pakistan, for once, has passed without any controversy and both sets of players have behaved impeccably. Long may that continue.
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Woakes isn't usually in the T20 squad anyway and to be fair the team tonight also started the World Final this year.
Just a case of we didn't play well and Pakistan were very good.
Is the correct response.
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Only just caught up on the score, I watched until about 10 overs of the england innings and then had to turn it off because of the stupid horns. Looking at the total we set I'd say we were 40-50 short of what we should've got from our start. Losing Hales and Root together was a huge blow.
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Morgan and Hales won't tour Bangladesh. I think that might end Morgan's international career and possibly finish Hales Test career.
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Morgan and Hales won't tour Bangladesh. I think that might end Morgan's international career and possibly finish Hales Test career.
I agree Paul ..........Hameed for Hales in the test team and one of Bairstow/Duckett/Billings for Morgan on the ODI/T20 team
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Morgan and Hales won't tour Bangladesh. I think that might end Morgan's international career and possibly finish Hales Test career.
I agree Paul ..........Hameed for Hales in the test team and one of Bairstow/Duckett/Billings for Morgan on the ODI/T20 team
It shouldn't end their international careers, the ECB have shown no leadership as usual and wouldn't make a tough decision, they said it was up to the players so they should be happy with whatever decision those players have made. As head of the English and Wales cricket board the ECB should have shown some balls.
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Morgan and Hales won't tour Bangladesh. I think that might end Morgan's international career and possibly finish Hales Test career.
I agree Paul ..........Hameed for Hales in the test team and one of Bairstow/Duckett/Billings for Morgan on the ODI/T20 team
It shouldn't end their international careers, the ECB have shown no leadership as usual and wouldn't make a tough decision, they said it was up to the players so they should be happy with whatever decision those players have made. As head of the English and Wales cricket board the ECB should have shown some balls.
It shouldn't but when your form is shaky (as is the case with both) willingly giving the shirt to someone else is a huge risk. I think Morgan will be ok but if Duckett (for example) comes in and smacks a couple of match winning centuries how do you drop him? The opener spot is more difficult because there's no obvious choice to come in for him but I suspect Bell-Drummond may get a chance, probably a little too soon for Hameed.
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Morgan and Hales won't tour Bangladesh. I think that might end Morgan's international career and possibly finish Hales Test career.
I agree Paul ..........Hameed for Hales in the test team and one of Bairstow/Duckett/Billings for Morgan on the ODI/T20 team
It shouldn't end their international careers, the ECB have shown no leadership as usual and wouldn't make a tough decision, they said it was up to the players so they should be happy with whatever decision those players have made. As head of the English and Wales cricket board the ECB should have shown some balls.
It is up to the players, and that's right. I don't think they'll be directly punished, but if someone in their role performs well they won't get back in.
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Morgan and Hales won't tour Bangladesh. I think that might end Morgan's international career and possibly finish Hales Test career.
I agree Paul ..........Hameed for Hales in the test team and one of Bairstow/Duckett/Billings for Morgan on the ODI/T20 team
It shouldn't end their international careers, the ECB have shown no leadership as usual and wouldn't make a tough decision, they said it was up to the players so they should be happy with whatever decision those players have made. As head of the English and Wales cricket board the ECB should have shown some balls.
The ECB have said its safe to tour, have had it checked out by several security experts and the Foreign Office have no problems with Tourists going so its an individuals choice and if they give their place up they may have to face the consequences
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Morgan's place as a team member is less than secure on form? If so Bairstowe coming in will strengthen the batting. If Buttler does ok as skipper then Morgan is a likely casualty.
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Morgan's place as a team member is less than secure on form? If so Bairstowe coming in will strengthen the batting. If Buttler does ok as skipper then Morgan is a likely casualty.
Good point mate
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Are you questioning whether he's a risk? If so let me clarify things, If you look at our top order Roy, Hales, Root, Stokes and Buttler (and Bairstow as understudy with the gloves) have all won us games with the bat over the last 18 months. Morgan hasn't done the same. He's won us games by being a good captain but if Buttler can replicate that batting and either Bairstow or Duckett (the question is over whether you want to have 2 keepers in the field) can add the extra threat with the bat it will be very hard to justify bringing him back. Hales on the other should walk back in because his form in that format is too good to ignore so the replacement would have to play out of their skin to put pressure on him.
In the test team Hales is under immense pressure anyway and I think he's made the decision for them, possibly preempting being dropped.
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Interesting squad with Hameed, Duckett, Batty, Ansari and Buttler included. I quite like the balance of the squad and I'm excited by the prospect of Duckett playing.
Batty is a good selection, because even though it indicates the lack of spinning talent in the county game it does show that it's never too late.
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Interesting squad with Hameed, Duckett, Batty, Ansari and Buttler included. I quite like the balance of the squad and I'm excited by the prospect of Duckett playing.
Batty is a good selection, because even though it indicates the lack of spinning talent in the county game it does show that it's never too late.
Leach for Batty for me...a learning thing for the youngster!!
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I think Ansari kind of fills that role.
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I think Ansari kind of fills that role.
Surely Ansari is more your Moeen Ali stand in a spinning batting all rounder sort of way!! Not that many wkts this summer...injured for a bit.
Leach 50+ i believe.
If this is part of maybe bringing Batty into a player/coach sort of role then i can maybe understand it but no mention of that. Too old end of!!!
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If we're looking for a spinner I still think they need to look at Kerrigan again, he was called up out of the blue, given 8 overs and then dumped, that's pretty shocking treatment of a player, even if those 8 overs weren't great.
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Yep, they were poor and it's hard to protect poor bowlers in a Test match.
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The spinner is the one position this England side lack & I am a big fan of Mo as a cricketer, think England have been lucky that he has stepped up because since Swann has gone there has been no spinner to get anywhere past 'having potential'
Batty...can only assume Tuffers or Giles aren't fit to play? If he does play he'll be glad he hasn't got to throw down 50 overs at Lara again :-)
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Wood and Anderson out of the Bangladesh tour. Wood's injury problems are becoming a real concern, because it's the same issues recurring.
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Wood and Anderson out of the Bangladesh tour. Wood's injury problems are becoming a real concern, because it's the same issues recurring.
Agree Paul and Wood is becoming a real concern. I guess it will mean the spot will now be open for a second spinner to join the existing attack of Broad, Woakes, Ali and Stokes.
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Latest score in warm up game:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/scorecard/ECKO40613
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TMS aren't covering the one day series in Bangladesh. Does anyone know if other stations will be covering this series on line or via an app? I like to have the cricket on in the background when I'm working.
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Its on Willow cricket.....not sure if there is an App but maybe stream pictures.
70/3 14.2 overs currently.
Bairstow last man out attempting suicidal single.
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167-3 now, good partnership between Stokes and Duckett here, the latter looks to have settled in like he was born to it.
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Stokes has had a couple of extra lives but still there and we've moved to 184-3 with 17 to go
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Oh and then 4 more with stokes playing the most nonchalant reverse slog you'll ever see.
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Its on Willow cricket.....not sure if there is an App but maybe stream pictures.
70/3 14.2 overs currently.
Bairstow last man out attempting suicidal single.
Thanks PGW.
I've found it on Talksport 2 on DAB. I didn't know they had the rights, I hope TMS are back for the tests.
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Excellent 50 from Duckett, but I hear no applause?
Why is it that only England cricket supporters respect the opposition by applauding 50s/100s?
Stokes is powering on to a 100....shhhhhhhh.
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Excellent 50 from Duckett, but I hear no applause?
Why is it that only England cricket supporters respect the opposition by applauding 50s/100s?
Stokes is powering on to a 100....shhhhhhhh.
We are the most sporting perhaps? In the main I find genuine Cricket fans acknowledge good play from the opposition, even in the heat of an Ashes battle. Maybe it doesn't happen on the subcontinent any more.
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Brilliant performances from Duckett and Stokes now lets see how Buttler reacts to being captain, hopefully there's going to be some fireworks.
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Very impressed by Duckett. It's great to see Stokes got a 100 in the sub-continent, as his play against spin was always my concern.
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It's a shame to see Stokes go so close after his century but he did look tired so fresh legs for the death might be good.
Ali gone for 6 though so 245-6 with 6 overs left. Buttler and Woakes in.
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Buttler is just an animal, when he decides it's time he's just brutal. was 22 from 22 now 55 from 33, this is why he's the best finisher in the world.
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Yep Buttler is superb.
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Buttler gone for 63 but when he decides to just go for it there are few things more exciting in sport.
all done 309-8
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Bangladesh up with the run rate, could do with a wicket or two to slow them down before the last few over slogfeat.
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Two in two for Ball on his debut. I fear these wickets have come too late.
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Bangladesh have lost 4-9 and are now 8 down. This is getting interesting!
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Somehow pulling it back.
Not too worried about this one anyway, Bangladesh have improved massively recently and we went there somewhat underprepared (only one practice match).
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What a win that is. Great character.
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Great bowling on his debut by Jake Ball, a 5-fer is a real achievement. He looked dead on his feet towards the end and somehow kept going.
Good captaincy from Buttler and somehow we managed to turn that game around. With 10 overs left we looked out of it.
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Great bowling on his debut by Jake Ball, a 5-fer is a real achievement. He looked dead on his feet towards the end and somehow kept going.
Good captaincy from Buttler and somehow we managed to turn that game around. With 10 overs left we looked out of it.
I thought it was gone, and I've never seen a player so wrung out as Ball. Kudos to all.
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Real break through match for Ball, with us being a few bowlers down at the moment he has really grasped his chance, just like Woakes did in the summer Tests. Good stuff, we need the competition, the pace attack almost picked itself a couple of years ago.
Now, lets go develop some spinners.
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Now, lets go develop some spinners.
I agree but the way they're revamping the county game around limited over Cricket in the warmer months of June, July and August means that the development of a spinning "prospect" will be hampered. Most four day Cricket will be played before June and at the end of August. It's too damp at the start of the season and the pitches are dead by late August. We won't find a decent spinner unless we accept that the prioritising of white ball Cricket hampers the development of players that we are crying out for. You can't blame the Counties for focusing on white ball Cricket because that is where most revenue is generated but ultimately it does hamper the development of a top class spinner.
We've never really produced decent spinners. English conditions don't suit them. Underwood was a freak but he played on uncovered pitches. The likes of Edmonds, Emburey and Giles were containing bowlers who didn't spin the ball that much. Swann was good and the best was probably Monty. It's a shame that his career has gone off the rails.
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I'm not sure I agree, I think T20 in particular has the potential to be a great breeding ground for wicket taking spinners. In the 4 day game spinners have to have more concern for playing safe and keeping things tight. There are advantages to that but it doesn't create spinners who will take big wickets at key moments. The shitty pitches at the start and end of the season where nothing much is going for them can be used to learn how to bowl with economy but the shorter formats will teach them to vary line, length and pace to try to make things happen and buy wickets.
The issue is that becoming a top end spinner requires you to bowl a lot of deliveries (unless you're a world class talent like Warne or Murali) so spinners like Giles, etc were common because they could 'tie up an end' without being a huge threat themselves and getting wickets by attrition more than anything else. Remember the best spinners have generally come through in countries where they've traditionally played far more short format games because that's where they can learn to bowl for wickets.
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England doing well here restricting Bangladesh, currently 117/5 31.4 overs. Two each for Woakes & Ball plus 1 for Stokes.
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170/7 42 overs now
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We've not batted well but somehow our 10th wicket pair are edging us closer.
(Typed with crossed fingers to avoid the H&V version of commentator's curse. It's bloody difficult to type like that).
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We've not batted well but somehow our 10th wicket pair are edging us closer.
(Typed with crossed fingers to avoid the H&V version of commentator's curse. It's bloody difficult to type like that).
So the fingers crossed typing didn't work then.
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Woakes finishes the game off with a 6.
Shafiul Islam to Woakes, SIX, up, up and away, Woakes gets right underneath a lofted drive, clears the long-off boundary, and that is the series!
Bangladesh 277/6 (50.0 ov)
England 278/6 (47.5 ov)
England won by 4 wickets (with 13 balls remaining)
England RR 5.81
Last 5 ovs 42/0 RR 8.40
Bangladesh RR 5.54
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Mr Hales and Mr Morgan may not get their places back now
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Very good bating performances, Duckett screams out world class, I'd be finding a spot in the test team for him very soon.
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Mr Hales and Mr Morgan may not get their places back now
My view exactly. Billings and Duckett could be fighting for a top four spot and Buttler captained well I thought (although his keeping is still suspect) It was a gamble for both Hales and in particular Morgan to duck the one day tour.
Interesting what they do in India.
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Good series win that. Bangladesh is a tough place to win now.
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Mr Hales and Mr Morgan may not get their places back now
My view exactly. Billings and Duckett could be fighting for a top four spot and Buttler captained well I thought (although his keeping is still suspect) It was a gamble for both Hales and in particular Morgan to duck the one day tour.
Interesting what they do in India.
Hales has scored 4 ODI centuries in the last year. I'd be very surprised if he wasn't in the team for the 1st ODI in India.
Morgan has been a massive part in the change of attitude and approach. Again I'd be shocked if he wasn't back
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Mr Hales and Mr Morgan may not get their places back now
My view exactly. Billings and Duckett could be fighting for a top four spot and Buttler captained well I thought (although his keeping is still suspect) It was a gamble for both Hales and in particular Morgan to duck the one day tour.
Interesting what they do in India.
Hales has scored 4 ODI centuries in the last year. I'd be very surprised if he wasn't in the team for the 1st ODI in India.
Morgan has been a massive part in the change of attitude and approach. Again I'd be shocked if he wasn't back
I agree. They will drop Vince and Bairstow from this side and Hales and Morgan will come back. Morgan will be under huge pressure to perform though. We are talking about Hales and Morgan before we even consider Joe Root and Jason Roy who are due to return too. What a fantastic selection headache to have.
I really think this young squad is going to make a massive mark in the one day game. It's been quite some 18 months since the humiliation in last year's World Cup.
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I agree that any talk of Hales being dropped is wide of the mark, along with Buttler he's been the backbone of our improvement in this format and will definitely come back in. Roy will also come back in, they're as good an opening pair as any in the world and I see no reason to mess with that. It's unlucky on Billings but that's how it is.
After that you have Root, Stokes, Buttler all batting in the top 7 which gives you 2 spots, probably at 4 and 5. Duckett has earned the right to take one of those which leaves a straight choice between Morgan and Bairstow for the last spot. Given that Buttler did a very good job as captain I don't think Morgan's performances as captain have as much sway as they might have so I'd call that a very tough call to make.
The only other decision to make is the last seamer. Woakes, Rashid and Ali are all firmly established and delivering so do you go with Ball, Plunkett, Willey, someone else? I think I'd have Ball slightly ahead right now but it's easily the hardest selection decision we have at the moment.
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I agree about Hales, but suspect he wont want to "opt out" of too many other tours. Roy/Hales opening partnership with Root at three is again a pretty easy choice [assuming Root's back can hold up]
At four I rather like Bairstow who has developed over the last year or so to be an absolutely world class cricketer. At 18/2 who would i rather see striding to the crease, Bairstow every time over Morgan. Similarly Bairstow coming in with 140 on the board in the 35th over would also be my preferred option. As i said earlier Buttler looks an ok captain, who can only get better with input from Root, as well as Stokes around to give advice.
As has been said Woakes Ali and Rashid pick themselves on form, all offer quite a bit with the bat. The final seamer i think is a "horses for courses" type scenario. If its hooping around at Headingley Willey would be my obvious choice, a quick Perth pitch then Plunkett and in the sub continent Ball who has toured a couple of times there with the Lions and clearly learnt how to bowl on such pitches.
if it was thought to be a two seamer conditions then i think Ali would miss out for me with Willey and A N Other. Whilst Rashid may not be the best leg spinner in the World his time in the IPL has clearly paid dividends, and a left arm seamer who can swing the ball in as well as bowl across the right hander just offers something a little different.
However as others have said what a fantastic problem to have after the years of dross we have watched as England fans
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I thing Morgan just about has enough credit for being a catalyst for our improvement since we lost to Bangladesh in CWC 2015. Since then our form has been fantastic.
If you compare the teams that took on Bangladesh 18 months ago the one that played yesterday then there's some been some significant changes. None of the changes have weakened us. We also nstarted yesterday's game without three of our first choice top four.
CWC March 2015 v Bangladesh
Ali, Bell, Hales, Root, Morgan, Taylor Buttler, Woakes, Jordan, Broad, Anderson
ODI October 2016 v Banglasdesh:
Vince, Billings, Duckett, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes, Plunkett, Rashid, Ball
Just Ali, Buttler and Woakes survive and in Woakes, we have a player who has improved beyond recognition. Hales, Root and Morgan will come back in and the other new selections have improved us. The only player who played in the CWC game and would still be part of the side is Taylor. I do suspect that Jordan still has a future in ODI cricket. The other newcomer that intrigues me is Billings, not least because he's a handy keeper. Interesting days ahead.
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I thing Morgan just about has enough credit for being a catalyst for our improvement since we lost to Bangladesh in CWC 2015. Since then our form has been fantastic.
If you compare the teams that took on Bangladesh 18 months ago the one that played yesterday then there's some been some significant changes. None of the changes have weakened us. We also nstarted yesterday's game without three of our first choice top four.
CWC March 2015 v Bangladesh
Ali, Bell, Hales, Root, Morgan, Taylor Buttler, Woakes, Jordan, Broad, Anderson
ODI October 2016 v Banglasdesh:
Vince, Billings, Duckett, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes, Plunkett, Rashid, Ball
Just Ali, Buttler and Woakes survive and in Woakes, we have a player who has improved beyond recognition. Hales, Root and Morgan will come back in and the other new selections have improved us. The only player who played in the CWC game and would still be part of the side is Taylor. I do suspect that Jordan still has a future in ODI cricket. The other newcomer that intrigues me is Billings, not least because he's a handy keeper. Interesting days ahead.
Without wanting to beat my own drum Woakes has become the player I suspected was in there about 2 years ago, for a long time he was doing all the right things but just getting the runs or wickets that his effort deserved. The burst of confidence that comes from taking 9 for 30 odd was all he neeeded and then skittling Sri Lanka just proved he can do it internationally as well. Since then he's probably been the form player in world cricket, taking wickets regularly, a fair number in the first over or 2 of a spell, scoring big runs at important times and generally looking every inch a world class all rounder. Second name on the sheet in all 3 formats for me (straight after Root).
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I thing Morgan just about has enough credit for being a catalyst for our improvement since we lost to Bangladesh in CWC 2015. Since then our form has been fantastic.
If you compare the teams that took on Bangladesh 18 months ago the one that played yesterday then there's some been some significant changes. None of the changes have weakened us. We also nstarted yesterday's game without three of our first choice top four.
CWC March 2015 v Bangladesh
Ali, Bell, Hales, Root, Morgan, Taylor Buttler, Woakes, Jordan, Broad, Anderson
ODI October 2016 v Banglasdesh:
Vince, Billings, Duckett, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes, Plunkett, Rashid, Ball
Just Ali, Buttler and Woakes survive and in Woakes, we have a player who has improved beyond recognition. Hales, Root and Morgan will come back in and the other new selections have improved us. The only player who played in the CWC game and would still be part of the side is Taylor. I do suspect that Jordan still has a future in ODI cricket. The other newcomer that intrigues me is Billings, not least because he's a handy keeper. Interesting days ahead.
Without wanting to beat my own drum Woakes has become the player I suspected was in there about 2 years ago, for a long time he was doing all the right things but just getting the runs or wickets that his effort deserved. The burst of confidence that comes from taking 9 for 30 odd was all he neeeded and then skittling Sri Lanka just proved he can do it internationally as well. Since then he's probably been the form player in world cricket, taking wickets regularly, a fair number in the first over or 2 of a spell, scoring big runs at important times and generally looking every inch a world class all rounder. Second name on the sheet in all 3 formats for me (straight after Root).
I think it's more than a burst of confidence, he's added a yard of pace too and at test level that's the difference between world class and journeyman trundler. He's 27 and if he can stay injury free, he's a natural replacement for Jimmy who has, I fear a maximum of a couple of years left at the top.
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He added that pace 2 years ago but in the county game he was still struggling to dominate sides because I don't think he was willing to take risks, there were lots of safe deliveries from him for a while. The difference this summer is that he knew he would take wickets so he bowled as if they were a given and that extra belief in his ability made all the difference.
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Mr Hales and Mr Morgan may not get their places back now
My view exactly. Billings and Duckett could be fighting for a top four spot and Buttler captained well I thought (although his keeping is still suspect) It was a gamble for both Hales and in particular Morgan to duck the one day tour.
Interesting what they do in India.
Hales has scored 4 ODI centuries in the last year. I'd be very surprised if he wasn't in the team for the 1st ODI in India.
Morgan has been a massive part in the change of attitude and approach. Again I'd be shocked if he wasn't back
I agree. They will drop Vince and Bairstow from this side and Hales and Morgan will come back. Morgan will be under huge pressure to perform though. We are talking about Hales and Morgan before we even consider Joe Root and Jason Roy who are due to return too. What a fantastic selection headache to have.
I really think this young squad is going to make a massive mark in the one day game. It's been quite some 18 months since the humiliation in last year's World Cup.
We are in a good place with the 50 over side now. A lot of options in both the bowling and batting departments and with ICC Trophy over here next summer, we should be in a good place to have a good go at it.
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Duckett needs to be in the Test team, he just has 'it'.
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Duckett needs to be in the Test team, he just has 'it'.
I agree, he looks top class. One of those players where there's no point waiting for him to get experience and wasting a few years, just get him in like we did with Root and Cook.
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Pretty horrible start.
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We staged a recovery of sorts until lunch. Ali survived two appeals in the first over after the restart that were overturned on referral then Root was out in the next over. 81-4.
We need Stokes to play calmly now.
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Not looking great to be honest. It doesn't look a particularly difficult pitch a lot of the time, but then there will be the odd ball that turns square. It will be interesting to see how Bangladesh go.
I really am not sure what Ballance did to warrant his recall in the summer and I haven't seen anything from him since to justify his selection.
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That was a disappointing day for England. 258-7 is a recovery of sorts from 21-3 and this side is very resilient. We never seem to learn our lesson against spinners and as a result we struggle against them. It's a big ask, but if the remaining three wickets can get us up to 300 then I suspect that could well be a competitive total. Batty will come in to his own on this pitch and could prove to be an inspired selection.
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That was a disappointing day for England. 258-7 is a recovery of sorts from 21-3 and this side is very resilient. We never seem to learn our lesson against spinners and as a result we struggle against them. It's a big ask, but if the remaining three wickets can get us up to 300 then I suspect that could well be a competitive total. Batty will come in to his own on this pitch and could prove to be an inspired selection.
Have you seen any of the play from today? I watched the last half hour before lunch and about 20 minutes in the last session. On the basis of that I reckon this is pushing on a competitive total, add another 30-40 tomorrow and I'd say we're slightly ahead. Now whether Ali, Rashid and Batty can make the most of that with the ball is another matter but I think 500-550 over the 2 innings is enough to win this. This goes back to my belief that people have let ODI and t20 blind them to what a competitive score is in test matches so suddenly less than 400 feels like you've come up short almost irrespective of the conditions/pitch.
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ITV 4 are showing highlights at 7.00pm.
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Just to clarify because reading back that post doesn't necessarily come across as I intended it to. Without seeing any of the game I'd agree with you that it looks like we've let ourselves down a little but that's not the impression I got watching it, it looked really hard to get the ball away so the score for the day is about par, I certainly wouldn't think either side sees it as their day.
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Cook's wicket was probably the only one of the 7 that was a genuinely poor shot, the rest were due to good bowling and a pitch which is difficult to score on and likely to produce exaggerated and unpredictable turn. When a team opens the bowling with a spinner you know what sort of pitch they have prepared.
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Cook's wicket was probably the only one of the 7 that was a genuinely poor shot, the rest were due to good bowling and a pitch which is difficult to score on and likely to produce exaggerated and unpredictable turn. When a team opens the bowling with a spinner you know what sort of pitch they have prepared.
Also, they have picked 5 spinners and there is very uneven bounce. Nonetheless, our batsmen are going to have to start using their feet a lot more against spin on this sort of pitch, so it could be a very good preparation for India.
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Moeen Ali Is involved in everything in this game!
Top scorer, a unique DRS record and now two wickets in three balls. That's almost Bothamesque boy's own stuff!
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That first wicket is a thing of real beauty, the batsmans reaction was priceless.
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They've picked 5 spinners!!?? Wow, can't think of that happening before, 3 yes but 5. Must be an absolute Bunsen.
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They've picked 5 spinners!!?? Wow, can't think of that happening before, 3 yes but 5. Must be an absolute Bunsen.
Try to catch some highlights, it's quite fun watching a match with this much turn and bounce. There's been shitloads of reviews where a wicket has been overturned because the ball did way too much. The one that rashid got looked, to the naked eye, like a decent shout but hawkeye had it 3-4 inches high and wide of leg. Must be an absolute nightmare for the umpires on this.
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Finally the BCCI have agreed to introduce DRS for the test series against England. It's been a long time coming. This current test shows how valuable it is.
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Interesting game now this one. Tamim is key here, if he sticks around then they can push on but the concentration needed is huge and Mo showed that if you let it drop for a few seconds the pitch will catch you out.
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I really like watching Mo bowl to left handers, you can tell that he's used to bowling at our top order and he's much more comfortable with those angles.
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Poor review that, never looked like it was getting enough of the wickets to be anything but umpire's call.
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That's a huge wicket so late in the day.
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Poor review that, never looked like it was getting enough of the wickets to be anything but umpire's call.
Yeah but i can understand it as they get their allocation back in a couple of overs of tomorrows play....when new ball taken.
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Even if they have manufactured the pitch to do so, it's good to see a competitive test against Bangladesh rather than a routine thrashing.
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We started well and ended up with a lead of 40+ runs. To lose 3 wickets before lunch is frustrating. When will our top order lay the foundations of a decent score? It seems a while since that happened & two or three of them always seem to fail regardless of who is selected.
I've no confidence in Ballance, so it's down to Ali, Stokes & Bairstow to get us up to a decent total.
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Yep it seems like the top order are destined to fail every bloody time.
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Stokes is really becoming an excellent bowler. To take 4 on this pitch was a great effort.
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Good knowledge of the rules from Mo. He could easily have just walked.
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So far we are edging slowly ahead in this test. We need to establish a lead of 200 plus to win the game. They will struggle on a wearing pitch to get anywhere near that target, even allowing for home advantage.
Good to see that Bairstow has become the highest run scorer in a calendar year by a wicket keeper. At tea he'd scored 1,061 runs in 2016 and there are still six tests to go before Christmas. In the main they've been vital runs too, coming at times when yet again the top order have failed once more.
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Good from Jonny B, but what a player Stokes is. He now is dominant in all conditions.
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I think 500-550 over the 2 innings is enough to win this. This goes back to my belief that people have let ODI and t20 blind them to what a competitive score is in test matches so suddenly less than 400 feels like you've come up short almost irrespective of the conditions/pitch.
Quoting myself, we've put up 521 so far which is right in the middle of the target I set. I think the game is already ours to lose from here but add another 25 or so and you'd be looking at one of the greatest comebacks of all time for them to take anything.
The top 4 haven't had a great match but hard ball spin isn't something they'll have faced so I can largely forgive it, I think Ballance needs a big score in the next test though because his place is far from secure.
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I think 500-550 over the 2 innings is enough to win this. This goes back to my belief that people have let ODI and t20 blind them to what a competitive score is in test matches so suddenly less than 400 feels like you've come up short almost irrespective of the conditions/pitch.
Quoting myself, we've put up 521 so far which is right in the middle of the target I set. I think the game is already ours to lose from here but add another 25 or so and you'd be looking at one of the greatest comebacks of all time for them to take anything.
The top 4 haven't had a great match but hard ball spin isn't something they'll have faced so I can largely forgive it, I think Ballance needs a big score in the next test though because his place is far from secure.
Ballance's biggest problem is that he came back in for no obvious reason and since he's come back he hasn't done a lot.
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The appeal of Test Match cricket on the sub continent is at a very low ebb. Bangladesh could have an historic victory today ... but it's an empty stadium.
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This has been a fascinating test, and it's getting very tight. England are still ahead but we need to bowl sensibly & not lose our focus.
Wickets have fallen in clusters and their lower order is fragile. 107 runs or 5 wickets, this could get interesting.
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I expect England to win by about 60/70 runs. It's all about this pair for Bangladesh.
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I don't understand some of Cook's decisions during the Bangladesh second innings. Batty takes two wickets and he is taken off, then he starts with Stokes and Woakes after tea. Stokes is a bowler who makes things happen but on this pitch Woakes is ineffective. I'd have gone with Stokes and Rashid or maybe Batty.
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The appeal of Test Match cricket on the sub continent is at a very low ebb. Bangladesh could have an historic victory today ... but it's an empty stadium.
They're beginning to come in now, no doubt sensing the possibility of an historic victory.
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TMS estimated that there are 28 England fans at the test. The Sky coverage has just shown them sat behind a Villa/Halesowen flag. Well done fellas!
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The appeal of Test Match cricket on the sub continent is at a very low ebb. Bangladesh could have an historic victory today ... but it's an empty stadium.
They're beginning to come in now, no doubt sensing the possibility of an historic victory.
It's popular in this house, I'm on the edge of my seat. And God Bless TMS, with me upstairs, downstairs, in the garden and up to the tip.
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TMS estimated that there are 28 England fans at the test. The Sky coverage has just shown them sat behind a Villa/Halesowen flag. Well done fellas!
Picture tweeted by Halesowen CC. Perhaps one of you young lads knows how to get it on here?
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It's really in the balance. I'd say it going into the morning favours England.
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TMS estimated that there are 28 England fans at the test. The Sky coverage has just shown them sat behind a Villa/Halesowen flag. Well done fellas!
Picture tweeted by Halesowen CC. Perhaps one of you young lads knows how to get it on here?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cvcp1JBWcAAq34G.jpg)
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Anyone else setting the alarm & getting up early to watch the end of the test tomorrow?
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Anyone else setting the alarm & getting up early to watch the end of the test tomorrow?
I have done every other day so i am not going to miss the end of whats been a great Test match.
What i will do is watch via Modbro on my phone and watch end in bed. Hopefully won't last too long.
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New ball due in the morning so a couple of overs and it will be done.
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New ball due in the morning so a couple of overs and it will be done.
I certainly hope so.
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it's about as close as I expected and I'm pretty happy about it. We really needed this series to turn into a real trial by spin so we could test out the technique of some of the younger guys. It's also highlighted (again) the weakness that Cook has in knowing how to use his spinners effectively. We should learn a lot of this, regardless of the final result from here.
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I am sort of hoping Bangladesh win this because it would be such a massive breakthrough for them, England will bounce back regardless and will learn all sorts of lessons, but for Bangladesh it would be tremendous.
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I'm up.
Looks like the home side will do it.
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That was an excellent review from Cook. I didn't think it was out, but what do I know?
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Game over, ironic that it was two DRS reviews that decided this test.
Well played Bangladesh, they deserved to win that.
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That was an excellent review from Cook. I didn't think it was out, but what do I know?
As much as me. They didn't waste much time cutting to the shipping forecast R4.
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That was an excellent review from Cook. I didn't think it was out, but what do I know?
As much as me. They didn't waste much time cutting to the shipping forecast R4.
I'm now tying to decide what to do with myself for the next hour and a half. I don't fancy going to work early!
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Who would have thought it, this game decided on 2 reviews. Excellent game well done Stokes and England
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I didn't get up because I'd decided it would go that we'd take the new ball, hand it to Stokes and Broad and the 10 and 11 would get blown away by the swing, having watched the highlights I reckon that's pretty accurate.
As much as I don't understand why Cook didn't use his spinners more aggressively yesterday a new day with a new ball and couple of tailenders to bowl at was always going to be about the seamers.
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I didn't get up because I'd decided it would go that we'd take the new ball, hand it to Stokes and Broad and the 10 and 11 would get blown away by the swing, having watched the highlights I reckon that's pretty accurate.
As much as I don't understand why Cook didn't use his spinners more aggressively yesterday a new day with a new ball and couple of tailenders to bowl at was always going to be about the seamers.
We didn't take the new ball, but if they'd scored a further 10 or so runs then I think we would have.
I did question why, at 5.20am this morning I had bothered to get up to watch it!
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Ok that's a surprise, I guess they were getting a lot of reverse from the old ball then. I did have an alarm set but I turned it off just before I went to sleep.
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Ok that's a surprise, I guess they were getting a lot of reverse from the old ball then. I did have an alarm set but I turned it off just before I went to sleep.
Watching yesterday's play, the ball didn't start reversing until the last 10 overs. Stokes got plenty of reverse movement in the first innings but there was less reverse movement in the second. Of greater concern is Cook's lack of faith in his spinners. There are another 6 tests in Bangladesh and India before Christmas and he needs to show faith in them and let them tie up one end between them.
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Vaughan claiming 'India will whitewash England 5-0 if England play like against Bangladesh'.
What a load of rubbish, Bangladesh is a tough place to go and we got a good, albeit narrow win.
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I generally have very little interest in anything Vaughan has to say. He's the cricket equivalent of Savage as far as I'm concerned.
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I generally have very little interest in anything Vaughan has to say. He's the cricket equivalent of Savage as far as I'm concerned.
He was a hero of mine for a long time. I thought he was a fantastic captain who had the knack of making something happen and of course the memories of the 2005 Ashes series will live long.
However since then he's turned out to be an odious twat. He's not even a decent pundit either.
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I generally have very little interest in anything Vaughan has to say. He's the cricket equivalent of Savage as far as I'm concerned.
He was a hero of mine for a long time. I thought he was a fantastic captain who had the knack of making something happen and of course the memories of the 2005 Ashes series will live long.
However since then he's turned out to be an odious twat. He's not even a decent pundit either.
I never even thought he was that great a player, was just sure of himself enough to be a decent choice as captain when there were no other options but he was never more than an average test batsman for me and he never should've been anywhere near the ODI team, for a top order batsman to play the number of ODIs he did and not get a century is about the biggest indicator of why we were so shit at that format for so long.
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Vaughan claiming 'India will whitewash England 5-0 if England play like against Bangladesh'.
What a load of rubbish, Bangladesh is a tough place to go and we got a good, albeit narrow win.
You see that is just underestimating and demeaning a Bangladesh team who have made some great strides in the last couple of years.
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Is Batty injured or do England want to boost the batting by bringing in Ansari ?
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Is Batty injured or do England want to boost the batting by bringing in Ansari ?
I think it's a bit of a fact finding exercise before India.
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Vaughan claiming 'India will whitewash England 5-0 if England play like against Bangladesh'.
What a load of rubbish, Bangladesh is a tough place to go and we got a good, albeit narrow win.
You see that is just underestimating and demeaning a Bangladesh team who have made some great strides in the last couple of years.
I don't think that was the point he was making rather that the top order repeatedly get out cheaply, not just this series, leaving us 4 down for not very many and that doing that against the number one ranking test side means they are likely to get stuffed. I agree with him.
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I can't stand Michael Vaughan. Like to remind myself of that every so often.
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Vaughan claiming 'India will whitewash England 5-0 if England play like against Bangladesh'.
What a load of rubbish, Bangladesh is a tough place to go and we got a good, albeit narrow win.
You see that is just underestimating and demeaning a Bangladesh team who have made some great strides in the last couple of years.
I don't think that was the point he was making rather that the top order repeatedly get out cheaply, not just this series, leaving us 4 down for not very many and that doing that against the number one ranking test side means they are likely to get stuffed. I agree with him.
As do I.
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I don't because we did it against the number 1 ranked side and won the series, about a year ago. We then did it agianst the team that is now ranked number 2 (and was briefly top) and drew the series. There's plenty of evidence that whilst it's holding us back from being the team that everyone is chasing it's clearly not stopping us from being competitive against every nation we play.
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I can't stand Michael Vaughan. Like to remind myself of that every so often.
Maybe ive not been paying attention but you've surprised me there Chris.
What with his Yorkshire connection and he was undoubtedly a terrific player to watch when in form.
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I can't stand Michael Vaughan. Like to remind myself of that every so often.
Maybe ive not been paying attention but you've surprised me there Chris.
What with his Yorkshire connection and he was undoubtedly a terrific player to watch when in form.
Deeply unpleasant man, every person I know who has encountered him has said he's an incredibly arrogant, rude man who will greet any request with "what's in it for me?"
He supports Sheffield Wednesday and Manchester United, how does that work?
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I don't because we did it against the number 1 ranked side and won the series, about a year ago. We then did it agianst the team that is now ranked number 2 (and was briefly top) and drew the series. There's plenty of evidence that whilst it's holding us back from being the team that everyone is chasing it's clearly not stopping us from being competitive against every nation we play.
Both at home in conditions where we have bowlers who can knock over teams very cheaply. In India that probably won't be the case, if our top order crumbles there it'll be a lot harder.
Edit - Ah sorry you're referring to SA. Although again I the South African conditions are much more similar to England, so again our bowlers could get us out of trouble if needed. I think in India we're going to have to get big totals to compete, and if the top order don't score we'll struggle to do that.
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Maybe. Personally I think Indian pitches/conditions are very different to this because the IPL has forced them to adapt to much more batter friendly surfaces and the scores in Indian hosted tests over the last few years back that up. I'm glad we're doing this series, I think Bangladesh need the bigger nations to visit them much more, but I don't think it'as going to serve as much of a training camp for India.
All that said, the specific claim was that India would whitewash us. If you believe that then you haven't been paying much attention to international cricket in the last few years or you're trying to create noise. Vaughan falls entirely into the latter group.
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I agree on Bangladesh they need to play Test cricket. There are lots of talented youngsters.
On the whitewash front he was saying he thought we could get whitewashed if we end up being 30-3, 40-4 in the Tests, meaning India won't let us off the hook. I think he has a point there. You will lose most games in India if your top order fails. It's far harder, particularly for England, to dig yourself out of trouble against decent spin.
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I was listening to the show and that's the point he was making; find yourself 4 down for less than 50 and you'll get blown away down there. He also made the point that with so many left handers we will struggle.
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I've been quite pleased to see how Bangladesh have played, they seem to have improved a lot
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This is an interesting challenge now. Bangladesh are in complete control, we don't have Broad and Anderson. It's time for the other bowlers to step up and drag this back. We badly lack control with the spinners.
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This is an interesting challenge now. Bangladesh are in complete control, we don't have Broad and Anderson. It's time for the other bowlers to step up and drag this back. We badly lack control with the spinners.
As I type this, there have been no maidens bowled by the England spinners.
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Yep it's really poor from a control point. I'm not convinced that Rashid is a Test spinner, he seems to bowl 3/4 good balls and 2 shockers each over. Hopefully he'll prove me wrong and get about 7 wickets now.
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Good spell from mo has changed the game here
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Aided by a dip in batting (padding up and playing at a wide one) Mo and Stokes have got England back into this
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Moeen bags another.
Great second hour of the afternoon session for England
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ERB is the best new summariser on TMS for quite a while
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Can't run Stokes into the ground, but with the break, he should have been OK for another 3 or 4 overs after tea.
He has more than done his part, but when a bowler is in rhythm, let him get on with it. Seven down, and Bangladesh would be doing well to get 250 from there.
But a different bowler and the pressure is off again, and they might push up to circa 300.
...As I say that Woakes picks up his second.
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"are you England in disguise"
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Second worse collapse in Test history by a team that was at least 171 for 1
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Funny how some people were saying Moeen should be dropped, he gets 5 wickets whilst the other two spinners go round the park and collect 0-80 between them off just 16 overs.
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Well remarkable turn around that when I hadn't checked for a couple of hours. Supports the view that Moeen is our best spinner.
Again two early wickets gone though.
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Ballance gone
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I think ballance and cook have just been done by good deliveries, Duckett was pretty unlucky as well.
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I find myself wondering if this pitch is the opposite of the first test. That one started the day lively and then flattened, this seems to have got harder to play.
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I thought our attack looked pretty average during the morning session, that said, Tamim's innings was masterful. He certainly enjoys batting against England.
Stokes bowled well and has that Xfactor that marks him out as a special player. He just makes things happen. Ali bowled with intelligence and deserved his 5-fer, particuafter they went after him in the morning session.
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I'm somewhat gutted by my performance today, woke dutifully at 04:55 and watched first session in bed on my tablet watching as Tamin sent us around the park.
At lunch i switched tablet off to give it a bit of boost and switched TMS on from my phone and then somehow fell asleep waking up as England walking out to bat so of 13 wickets to fall today i've seen 4 of them 3 of which
were Englands!!!
Not a happy bunny.
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Even earlier start tomorrow due to play being lost today. Play starts at 04:33.
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I'm somewhat gutted by my performance today, woke dutifully at 04:55 and watched first session in bed on my tablet watching as Tamin sent us around the park.
At lunch i switched tablet off to give it a bit of boost and switched TMS on from my phone and then somehow fell asleep waking up as England walking out to bat so of 13 wickets to fall today i've seen 4 of them 3 of which
were Englands!!!
Not a happy bunny.
I get a little like that and find that Test Cricket has made me superstitious! Like you PGW I listened to the morning session on TMS. Nothing of any note happened so I watched the afternoon session on TV. As we know England had a mervellous session with the ball so I had to stick with the TV coverage! If I'd have gone back to TMS we'd have struggled even more than we actually did.
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Moeen gets lots of criticism, but he is absolutely vital to England. He is and should be one of the first names on the team sheet.
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I have just finished reading Slipless in Settle by Harry Pearson. It is about cricket leagues oop north and is very very entertaining and informative.
Get a copy it will be well worth the effort and time.
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I have just finished reading Slipless in Settle by Harry Pearson. It is about cricket leagues oop north and is very very entertaining and informative.
Get a copy it will be well worth the effort and time.
It is a good read, there are some great books on cricket.
If you enjoyed Slipless in Settle you'll enjoy:
Rain Stopped Play by Harry Thompson
Fatty Batter and The Last Flanneled Fool by Michael Simkins
Rain Men by Marcus Berkmann
Fibber In The Heat by Miles Jupp
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I have just finished reading Slipless in Settle by Harry Pearson. It is about cricket leagues oop north and is very very entertaining and informative.
Get a copy it will be well worth the effort and time.
It is a good read, there are some great books on cricket.
If you enjoyed Slipless in Settle you'll enjoy:
Rain Stopped Play by Harry Thompson
Fatty Batter and The Last Flanneled Fool by Michael Simkins
Rain Men by Marcus Berkmann
Fibber In The Heat by Miles Jupp
The two Simkins books are brilliant especially the former.
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Well i haven't made the same error as yesterday, i woke up fine and listened to first 30 minutes including Ali & Stokes shots but then got up
to watch downstairs.
The Moeen shot was to say the least sloppy. We've now lost Bairstow and we have sent in Ansari, not sure whether i'd have sent Woakes in
first....i suppose got to go in some time but at 115/6 not sure.
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The Villa man dragging England back into it. From where they were after the Root dismissal, a deficit of 20 seemed like the Holy Grail. If this pair hang around, an unlikely lead might even be on.
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The Villa man dragging England back into it. From where they were after the Root dismissal, a deficit of 20 seemed like the Holy Grail. If this pair hang around, an unlikely lead might even be on.
I've said it before on here, but our 6-11 options with the bat are probably as good as there is around at the moment. Top five is still a huge problem though and I heard someone on Talksport sayong yesterday that we have been at least 3 down for 75 or less on 30 occasions in the last few series.
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England lead.
Woakes hasn't put a foot wrong all morning and then bangs a full toss straight at the fielder - only for Sabbir to be given a no ball. Incredible.
That blemish apart, it's as good an innings as you'll see on this kind of surface.
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Woakes and Rashid have dragged us back into this really well, but our batting looks really flimsy.
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The Villa man dragging England back into it. From where they were after the Root dismissal, a deficit of 20 seemed like the Holy Grail. If this pair hang around, an unlikely lead might even be on.
I've said it before on here, but our 6-11 options with the bat are probably as good as there is around at the moment. Top five is still a huge problem though and I heard someone on Talksport sayong yesterday that we have been at least 3 down for 75 or less on 30 occasions in the last few series.
They might strike gold with opening batsman lucky dip eventually. A competent, organised opener alongside Cook would make a huge difference to this side. Ideally you want someone capable of getting big runs and setting the tempo. But at the moment, someone who can come in and simply hang around for ten overs would be invaluable. Take the shine off the new ball and make it easier for those coming in at 3 and 4. At the moment, Root, Ballance or whoever are consistently coming in far too early.
Would be harsh to judge Duckett purely on what he's had to contend with so far on these kind of pitches, but I wonder if they'll be tempted to go with Hameed in India.
There are easier places to debut, but from memory, Cook and Owais Shah debuted out there in 2006. If you're good enough. you're good enough.
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New ball has done for Woakes. He batted patiently and the 99 run partnership with Rashid will have a huge bearing on the outcome of the test.
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With Woakes and Rashid as settled as you can possibly be on that pitch, it would have been nice to see them each get 50 and push the lead past 40 to really demoralise Bangladesh. Would give Moheen or whoever a cushion going into the second innings. But the pair went above and beyond.
Rashid deserves credit, he looked all over the shop when he first came in. Not that he was the only batsman who could say that. But he toughed it out. Woakes barely looked in trouble at any stage. Very smart cricketer, seems to suss the conditions and game situation out very quickly.
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Really poor start with the ball.
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No control again.
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Ansari strikes, needed that.
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Here we go!
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Moeen gets lots of criticism, but he is absolutely vital to England. He is and should be one of the first names on the team sheet.
That coward spineless Swann strike rate was 60. Moeen,s is 62. He's a top cricketer
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Coward spineless Swann? Bit harsh and odd.
England are going to have to bowl a hell of a lot better tomorrow and the top order are going to have to get some runs if we're going to win.
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I think it was a bit cowardly yes (assuming that was what the poster was referring to)
I loved Swann as an England Cricketer but the manner in which he left the ill fated Ashes Tour in 13/14 was appalling - MONesque. Fucked off to the commentary box mid series while we were getting panned and we had to call up some lad playing grade cricket in Sydney.
I've still not properly forgiven him for that in my mind.
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The defence I'd offer to Swann is that he was physically fucked and probably should've retired before the tour. If you watch the first 3 matches back now it's pretty clear that he wasn't anywhere near 100% and it's hard to understand why England felt it right to stick with him as they must've seen in the training and warm up matches that he was done.
It's a sour end to his career but 255 wickets is an immense return from someone who was 28/29 when he made his debut and when you add the sheer number of wickets at the start of a spell he was, for a few years, the absolute perfect spinner and shouldn't be remembered just for his retirement, it's not fair at all.
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Yeah it wasn't a great end, but I wouldn't define him on that one failing.
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England have it all to do to chase 273 runs to win on a pitch that is giving plenty to the bowlers.
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Swann was physically unable to bowl anymore on that tour, not like he left and retired to county cricket. Flower also told him he couldn't stay on the tour if he wasn't playing.
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Duckett in one day mode here and playing some great shots.
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Moeen gets lots of criticism, but he is absolutely vital to England. He is and should be one of the first names on the team sheet.
I've said it before on here, but I'm sure you're his agent! I wouldn't go as far as saying he is one of the first names on the team sheet, (Cook, Root, Stokes, Broad, Anderson would be), but he has become a fixture in the side.
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Young Duckett looks like he's nailed his place for India.
He's played with aggression without being reckless. Had a bit of luck, but he's earned it.
Cricket changes but some things stay the same. Stay in your bunker and let the spinners build up with pressure with men around the bat and you generally don't get far. Take the calculated gamble when an opportunity presents itself, open up the field and you then start to ask questions of the bowler.
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Excellent start from Duckett and Cook and it's given England a chance.
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Here comes the collapse!
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Marvellous Test match so far. Big innings for Ballance otherwise i reckon he is off back to the broad acres.
Off that, I guess he is off to India irrespective of what happens here.
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So Cook not out LBW but the leg bye he and Ballance ran is not scored ?
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I think that's the end of Ballance for a while. He's offering absolutely nothing.
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Well this is a real collapse.
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Gary Ballance should change his name to Gary Wicket by deed poll.
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Our top/upper middle order really is too prone to collapse. Of those 4 wickets at least 2 were completely unnecessary.
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Absolutely shocking.
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At tea I though we were well placed to push on and win the test. Since tea we have yet again been woeful with the bat. The side is resilient and we bat deep but I fear that this could be the test where our lower middle order do not get us out of jail.
Time to earn your corn Mr Bayliss, this batting fraility has gone on for far too long.
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Bairstow gone now as well. That prediction of a whitewash in India if we continue to bat as we have is bang on the money.
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Well I was about to post that these two Stokes and Bairstow will get 60 and see the win up and....
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I think that's the end of Ballance for a while. He's offering absolutely nothing.
He deserved his chance after averaging over 50 in the County Championship but as an International Test batsman he's rarely looked good enough.
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Phewwwee....how close was that? Lucky man Stokes!
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Wow...Stokes gone. This is a TEST MATCH. Every ball has to be contested.
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FFS England!
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I think that's the end of Ballance for a while. He's offering absolutely nothing.
He deserved his chance after averaging over 50 in the County Championship but as an International Test batsman he's rarely looked good enough.
I don't think there were many who expected him to get an England call up, he had a very average season for Yorkshire like many of our batsmen.
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Well done Bangladesh a thoroughly deserved win, but after tea we were abysmal.
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What series. It's not all about England collapsing. Give Bangladesh some credit. I know they had their wicket but they battled so hard.
Take today, even at 100 for 1 they never let their heads drop.
The joy, delight and sheer exuberance of the Bangladesh players and supporters as they celebrated the victory was a delight to see.
We could have lost this series 2-0.
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Great series. Fantastic result for cricket in Bangladesh. They fully deserved this win after coming so close on the first.
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Well done Bangladesh, but our batting is a big worry.
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I think that's the end of Ballance for a while. He's offering absolutely nothing.
He deserved his chance after averaging over 50 in the County Championship but as an International Test batsman he's rarely looked good enough.
Did he average 50 last year? I'm not disputing his original call up in his first England run, but he was justifiably dropped and I never have seen what he's done to be recalled.
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I do wonder why Woakes consistently seems more proficient with the bat than most of our 'batsmen'.
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I think that's the end of Ballance for a while. He's offering absolutely nothing.
He deserved his chance after averaging over 50 in the County Championship but as an International Test batsman he's rarely looked good enough.
Did he average 50 last year? I'm not disputing his original call up in his first England run, but he was justifiably dropped and I never have seen what he's done to be recalled.
I think he was picked because the obvious alternative at the time was Bell. It's clear that the England management want to move on and bring in younger players.
Duckett is 22, Hameed 19 and I suspect they will both feature in the coming tests. Personally I think Duckett will drop to 4 with Hameed opening if they don't try and squeeze in Buttler.
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Third worst 10 wicket collapse in Test history
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Our top/upper middle order really is too prone to collapse. Of those 4 wickets at least 2 were completely unnecessary.
Needs a real re-think for India. If it were up to me, I would give Hameed a chance to open in India, have Hales in at three, Root at four and Duckett at five.
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What series. It's not all about England collapsing. Give Bangladesh some credit. I know they had their wicket but they battled so hard.
Take today, even at 100 for 1 they never let their heads drop.
Their heads did drop.
Difficult to criticize Duckett after he played the best knock of the innings, but if he sees off the opening two or three overs of the final session it's a different game. The body language from Bangladesh wasn't great at that stage, they knew they were letting it slip.
Mehedi looks a real find, and all all credit to them. They probably deserved to win the first test as well. But it had to be England offering themselves up as the sacrificial lamb.
The rest of the cricket world will be laughing at England. In similar conditions, do you see Australia, S.Africa, India or NZ get blown away by a side with two test wins up to that point; especially one fielding a below average batting line-up, one seamer and a rookie spinner.
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Our top/upper middle order really is too prone to collapse. Of those 4 wickets at least 2 were completely unnecessary.
Needs a real re-think for India. If it were up to me, I would give Hameed a chance to open in India, have Hales in at three, Root at four and Duckett at five.
Who are you dropping there? Ballance is a given but to get that second spot you're looking at 1 of the bowlers I'd guess Rashid or Ansari? Seems harsh to me.
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Our top/upper middle order really is too prone to collapse. Of those 4 wickets at least 2 were completely unnecessary.
Needs a real re-think for India. If it were up to me, I would give Hameed a chance to open in India, have Hales in at three, Root at four and Duckett at five.
Not really both Rashid and Ansari aren't good enough for test cricket
Who are you dropping there? Ballance is a given but to get that second spot you're looking at 1 of the bowlers I'd guess Rashid or Ansari? Seems harsh to me.
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Does this result confirm Cook's standing as the worst test captain of all time, if only the last match of every series is counted?
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Our top/upper middle order really is too prone to collapse. Of those 4 wickets at least 2 were completely unnecessary.
Needs a real re-think for India. If it were up to me, I would give Hameed a chance to open in India, have Hales in at three, Root at four and Duckett at five.
Who are you dropping there? Ballance is a given but to get that second spot you're looking at 1 of the bowlers I'd guess Rashid or Ansari? Seems harsh to me.
Not really both Rashid and Ansari aren't good enough for test cricket
It's 'not really' harsh to write Ansari off as not good enough after a total of 25 overs? What would it take for you to consider dropping someone harsh? Doing it because of the way he shook hands on receiving his cap?
Rashid maybe but the jury is still out for me and dropping someone when their last innings was 4/52 from 12 doesn't seem right so I'd give him 1-2 tests in India before making a call either way.
In terms of chances I think Hales is further down the list than Rashid right now and on that basis I'd go Hameed for Ballance and Finn out for Broad. Then you stick with that for the first 2 unless someone completely collapses and make a decision between Rashid and Ansari dropping out for Jimmy for the 3rd test. That puts a bit of pressure on Root to come in for a few overs but I think it's very hard to drop one of our 4 frontline seamers if they're all fit and I don't think the Indian pitches will be as biased to spin as those we've just seen in Bangladesh.
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Our top/upper middle order really is too prone to collapse. Of those 4 wickets at least 2 were completely unnecessary.
Needs a real re-think for India. If it were up to me, I would give Hameed a chance to open in India, have Hales in at three, Root at four and Duckett at five.
Who are you dropping there? Ballance is a given but to get that second spot you're looking at 1 of the bowlers I'd guess Rashid or Ansari? Seems harsh to me.
Not really both Rashid and Ansari aren't good enough for test cricket
It's 'not really' harsh to write Ansari off as not good enough after a total of 25 overs? What would it take for you to consider dropping someone harsh? Doing it because of the way he shook hands on receiving his cap?
Rashid maybe but the jury is still out for me and dropping someone when their last innings was 4/52 from 12 doesn't seem right so I'd give him 1-2 tests in India before making a call either way.
In terms of chances I think Hales is further down the list than Rashid right now and on that basis I'd go Hameed for Ballance and Finn out for Broad. Then you stick with that for the first 2 unless someone completely collapses and make a decision between Rashid and Ansari dropping out for Jimmy for the 3rd test. That puts a bit of pressure on Root to come in for a few overs but I think it's very hard to drop one of our 4 frontline seamers if they're all fit and I don't think the Indian pitches will be as biased to spin as those we've just seen in Bangladesh.
I think that Ansari looked more of a test player than Rashid. Personally I'd bring Batty in for Rashid, Broad replaces Finn and Hameed replaces Ballance. I wouldn't consider Buttler, he's played one first class game for Lancashire in the 15 months since he was dropped during the 2015 Ashes. He's played plenty of one day Cricket but I think that the change from one day mode to test mode is too great for someone who has struggled in test cricket and has played very little red ball cricket for so long.
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Is it too late to start checking whether Mehedi Hasan has an English grandparent ?
The bloke could be a star but we'll mainly see him getting tonked in ODIs and T20s. Shame that he's not from a country that plays more Tests
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Is it too late to start checking whether Mehedi Hasan has an English grandparent ?
The bloke could be a star but we'll mainly see him getting tonked in ODIs and T20s. Shame that he's not from a country that plays more Tests
In the interests of doing something to help English Cricket, I could offer to adopt him?
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Now I'm not writing Ansari off in the long term, but at the moment I'm not sure what he's really in the team as. He's not there as a batsman because he's coming in pretty low in the order and his bowling appears to need a fair bit of work, when he bowls over the wicket he seems to lose his action. As I say I hope he develops, but at his current stage of development he reminds me a bit of a late 90s early 00s pick. Someone who can do a couple of roles ok, but nothing particularly standout.
On the wider point of the team I think I'd be inclined to say that we haven't got three good enough spinners, so no point in playing three. Three seamers and two spinners should be plenty to bowl the overs. I'd be inclined to get another genuine batsman into that middle order for this tour. The only way we're going to have a chance of covering our spin deficiencies is to get a lot of runs.
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Largely agree. It would be great if there were three gun spinners ready to hit the ground running but there isn't.
So much work has gone into Rashid and he still looks a million miles away from the finished article. Slow bowlers can come into their own when they get older -Swann was over 30 when he returned to the England side and made an impact. So there is still time.
But Moeen Ali and Batty with Root chipping in as and when required is probably the best way to go.
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Comical run out in Pakistan innings v West Indies.Amir thinks he has hit a six.The fielder at long on if he had tried to catch it would have gone over the boundary,so he pushes it back into play .The non striker ,confident also in it being a 6,has walked down towards Amir.In comes the return ,finally Amir realises he has to run .Too late.Comedy gold.
WI now chasing 153 need 65 with 5 wickets left.
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Available video is pretty crappy at the moment
https://twitter.com/taimoorz1/status/793753794958004224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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Spectacular collapse of England-esque proportions by the Aussies in the first test against South Africa in Perth.
Replying to The Saffer's 242 all out, Warner and Marsh put on 158 for the first wicket. They then collapsed to 244 all out which is effectively 88-10.
The Saffers are 104-2 at stumps on day two.
It suggests that all of the top 5 or 6 sides have really good bowling attacks but the batting line ups in each side is short of star quality.
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I've been saying this for a while, I think Test batting has suffered due to the amount of one-day and T20 games and a strange and relatively recent surge in scoring rates at Test level. The Aussies started it, suddenly deciding that scoring at 2 an over was boring, and they might have been right but it seems that there are very few batsmen these days who can just build an innings and score at a rate dependent on the conditions. Even those who get centuries are dong it in 130 balls rather than the 200+ balls that used to be common, and while I've done no real research, I can't recall too many massive "daddy hundreds" in recent games.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not moaning about it, we get more positive results and it's more entertaining as a result, but I do love a stubborn 180 ball fifty now and again.
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Spectacular collapse of England-esque proportions by the Aussies in the first test against South Africa in Perth.
Replying to The Saffer's 242 all out, Warner and Marsh put on 158 for the first wicket. They then collapsed to 244 all out which is effectively 88-10.
The Saffers are 104-2 at stumps on day two.
It suggests that all of the top 5 or 6 sides have really good bowling attacks but the batting line ups in each side is short of star quality.
Dale Steyn injured whilst bowling he has apparently fractured a bone in his right shoulder for the third time. Is definetly out for the series
and a while longer. I would imagine this is possibly career threatening that it is the third time.
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I've been saying this for a while, I think Test batting has suffered due to the amount of one-day and T20 games and a strange and relatively recent surge in scoring rates at Test level. The Aussies started it, suddenly deciding that scoring at 2 an over was boring, and they might have been right but it seems that there are very few batsmen these days who can just build an innings and score at a rate dependent on the conditions. Even those who get centuries are dong it in 130 balls rather than the 200+ balls that used to be common, and while I've done no real research, I can't recall too many massive "daddy hundreds" in recent games.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not moaning about it, we get more positive results and it's more entertaining as a result, but I do love a stubborn 180 ball fifty now and again.
Every side needs a Chanderpaul.
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Spectacular collapse of England-esque proportions by the Aussies in the first test against South Africa in Perth.
Replying to The Saffer's 242 all out, Warner and Marsh put on 158 for the first wicket. They then collapsed to 244 all out which is effectively 88-10.
The Saffers are 104-2 at stumps on day two.
It suggests that all of the top 5 or 6 sides have really good bowling attacks but the batting line ups in each side is short of star quality.
Dale Steyn injured whilst bowling he has apparently fractured a bone in his right shoulder for the third time. Is definetly out for the series
and a while longer. I would imagine this is possibly career threatening that it is the third time.
My Saffer mate reckons he's done.
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Now I'm not writing Ansari off in the long term, but at the moment I'm not sure what he's really in the team as. He's not there as a batsman because he's coming in pretty low in the order and his bowling appears to need a fair bit of work, when he bowls over the wicket he seems to lose his action. As I say I hope he develops, but at his current stage of development he reminds me a bit of a late 90s early 00s pick. Someone who can do a couple of roles ok, but nothing particularly standout.
On the wider point of the team I think I'd be inclined to say that we haven't got three good enough spinners, so no point in playing three. Three seamers and two spinners should be plenty to bowl the overs. I'd be inclined to get another genuine batsman into that middle order for this tour. The only way we're going to have a chance of covering our spin deficiencies is to get a lot of runs.
Agree about Ansari. For me it would be a choice between him and Moeen Ali and I think Ali is comfortably ahead at the moment. Depending on the pitch I would go for a 6-11 of Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Rashid/Batty, Broad in the first test.
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So the Crims have lost four tests on the bounce. I wonder when was the last time that happened?
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Not a great start again. The openers and Duckett back in the hutch for 100.
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surprise surprise England 3 down already.
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Root and Moeen looking good at the moment. Fingers crossed they can have a massive partnership.
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Good from Mo and Root here they need to keep going.
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Roooooooooooot
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Rrrrrrrrrrrrooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt!!
First overseas player to score a century in India since Michael Clark in 2013. In that time Indian batsmen have scored 15 centuries.
We really need to make this hard work count and hopefully these two will be able to deal with the fatigue which can be a challenge in India.
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237-3 70.2
Root 108 & Ali 61
Going excellently at the moment.
Also a word for the girls in their ODI series v Sri Lanka requiring 169 to win are 70/0 after 12.
If they win this game i believe that they have qualified for the World Cup
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237-3 70.2
Root 108 & Ali 61
Going excellently at the moment.
Also a word for the girls in their ODI series v Sri Lanka requiring 169 to win are 70/0 after 12.
If they win this game i believe that they have qualified for the World Cup
They are going well, but I'm sure Aggers said on TMS at tea that this game does not count towards qualification. The remaining games in the series do count which seems rather strange.
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311-4 at stumps on day 1, with Moeen 99 not out. Really important stand of 179 between Root and Moeen to help us recover from 100-3 at lunch.
That's as good a day with the bat that we have had for a very long time.
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Excellent effort from Root and Moeen that's the sort of partnership we will need lots of to compete in this serious. We really need to go on to score 500+ here.
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Anyone else think the catch off Root shouldn't have been given?
The very fact he desperately turned around to try to catch it again after throwing it in the air makes it obvious even the fielder didn't think he had it totally under control.
but then, as Root himself said afterwards, if he hadn't played the shot he wouldn't have given the chance!
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Anyone else think the catch off Root shouldn't have been given?
The very fact he desperately turned around to try to catch it again after throwing it in the air makes it obvious even the fielder didn't think he had it totally under control.
but then, as Root himself said afterwards, if he hadn't played the shot he wouldn't have given the chance!
Just seen it on the highlights. I think the 3rd Umpire's hands were tied as the on field call was a "soft" out.
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450-6 at lunch, a very good morning session for England. They really pushed on, scoring 139-2 in two hours. Stokes is looking ominous. He could cut loose after lunch and strengthen our hand. We should aim for at least 600 by tea and then declare.
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We have struggled since lunch, but it's good to see Stokes get his ton.
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Go the Chch Boy. Well done Stokes.
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Great to see three centurions in an innings. It's been a while since England have batted so well and it not being mainly reliant on one player.
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Anyone else think the catch off Root shouldn't have been given?
The very fact he desperately turned around to try to catch it again after throwing it in the air makes it obvious even the fielder didn't think he had it totally under control.
but then, as Root himself said afterwards, if he hadn't played the shot he wouldn't have given the chance!
There was an interesting conversation between Aggers and Victor about this. Apparently, per Aggers' research, the laws were changed to relax the 'control' aspect around 2000. Before the change, the decision would have been not out
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Great to see three centurions in an innings. It's been a while since England have batted so well and it not being mainly reliant on one player.
Hopefully Stokes' problem is just cramp. In some ways it was good that he was out just before the scheduled tea interval and therefore will have had around an extra 30 minutes recovery time
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This is starting to look pretty tricky here.
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This is starting to look pretty tricky here.
Looks like it will be a 500 plays 500 first innings game and a poor advert for test Cricket.
I'm surprised that the ball hasn't started to reverse. It's 60 overs old and the Indians were getting some reverse in our innings. We are supposed to be masters at Cricket's dark art!
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Victor wants to know which batsman has been hit the most on the helmet in an innings.
Even Andrew can't bring up the stats for that :)
EDIT - In baseball, this wouldn't be a problem because 'Hit By Pitch" is a standard stat to keep
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It's pitches like this that give Test cricket a bad name, nothing for the seamers, very little for the spinners, as flat as a witch's tit and utterly pointless, except for making India's batting averages look good.
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Unless the pitch falls apart tomorrow, this Test is going to get very dull
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Well i think the last 10 minutes brought the test to life, getting those 2 late wickets have given England a massive boost, both centurions now back
in the pavilion. A lot now rests on what the bowlers can do up till Lunch tomorrow. With the door slightly ajar we now need to bowl India out some
time after lunch with maybe 120 lead. Then a breezy knock undoubtedly losing wickets along the way increasing our lead to 250-280 to give us a chance on turning wicket
on Sunday.
Odds are still in favour of a draw...but their's a sniff.
Woakes incidentally was superb today.
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Just been writing about the 1958 Brisbane Ashes Test where Trevor Bailey scored 68 runs from 427 deliveries as England scored 198 in 119.2 eight ball overs. 106 runs were scored in a day's play!
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Victor wants to know which batsman has been hit the most on the helmet in an innings.
Even Andrew can't bring up the stats for that :)
EDIT - In baseball, this wouldn't be a problem because 'Hit By Pitch" is a standard stat to keep
In God's name, why?
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Victor wants to know which batsman has been hit the most on the helmet in an innings.
Even Andrew can't bring up the stats for that :)
EDIT - In baseball, this wouldn't be a problem because 'Hit By Pitch" is a standard stat to keep
In God's name, why?
Because it leads to an automatic walk for the batter. And everything in baseball generates stats.
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Well i think the last 10 minutes brought the test to life, getting those 2 late wickets have given England a massive boost, both centurions now back
in the pavilion. A lot now rests on what the bowlers can do up till Lunch tomorrow. With the door slightly ajar we now need to bowl India out some
time after lunch with maybe 120 lead. Then a breezy knock undoubtedly losing wickets along the way increasing our lead to 250-280 to give us a chance on turning wicket
on Sunday.
Odds are still in favour of a draw...but their's a sniff.
Woakes incidentally was superb today.
Yes he was and he deserved a couple of wickets. He's been England's cricketer of the year for me. Much improved and a natural successor to Jimmy.
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Victor wants to know which batsman has been hit the most on the helmet in an innings.
Even Andrew can't bring up the stats for that :)
EDIT - In baseball, this wouldn't be a problem because 'Hit By Pitch" is a standard stat to keep
In God's name, why?
Because it leads to an automatic walk for the batter. And everything in baseball generates stats.
I thought the term was Clubber?
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It's pitches like this that give Test cricket a bad name, nothing for the seamers, very little for the spinners, as flat as a witch's tit and utterly pointless, except for making India's batting averages look good.
You have hit the nail..... Most of the world records are held by Indian batsmen foe a reason🤔
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A 49 lead, should have been 77 but Cook dropped a shocker. Not as many as i was hoping for. Which means we have to bat half decent.
Had the lead been nearer to the 100 i would have batted to try and set a target but i think now bat to ensure the game is safe but still
scoring at a decent rate. We don't want to end up with another ''Adelaide'' on our hands by allowing Indian bowlers to tie us down.
What a beautiful site in Hobart seeing Aussies skittled for 85...nothing finer apart from us doing the skittling!!!
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Well bowled Adil. Weirdly though we're probably the most likely team to lose here, purely as even if we bat well it's going to be difficult to get enough to have enough time to declare.
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Well bowled Adil. Weirdly though we're probably the most likely team to lose here, purely as even if we bat well it's going to be difficult to get enough to have enough time to declare.
Cook's natural caution should mean there's very little chance of us declaring low and them making the runs. I think we'll bat until the middle of the second session as a minimum and he'll only declare if, even with an extra half hour, they looking at 5+ an over. I suspect he'll be aiming for 280-300 as the lead.
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What a beautiful site in Hobart seeing Aussies skittled for 85...nothing finer apart from us doing the skittling!!!
Great catches at the end from Duminy and De Kock
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I'm very happy with Hameed here, I'm sure I've said before I don't tjink openers need to pile on massive scores all the time but they do need to see off the hard ball so get to the 23rd over without loss is job done. Turning the inevitable 30-40 into a 50 and then 100 is the bonus.
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Well that was a thoroughly pathetic review, never looked like coming back enough.
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Superb 50 for the young man. Well played.
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Whisper it, but it looks like we've got a real player here doesn't it? I thought it might be too soon to plonk him in the team on a difficult tour, but how about that.
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Hameed looks the real deal doesn't he?
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It makes the decision to give Ballance 1 more chance all the stranger as well.
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It makes the decision to give Ballance 1 more chance all the stranger as well.
In hindsight yes, but no one knows how a 19 year old is going to react on debut, he could have got two ducks and then Ballance at 4 makes sense.
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Cook was a young man thrust into the team in India. Scored a century on debut. Fingers crossed Hameed emulates him this test and moving forward.
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It makes the decision to give Ballance 1 more chance all the stranger as well.
In hindsight yes, but no one knows how a 19 year old is going to react on debut, he could have got two ducks and then Ballance at 4 makes sense.
Only if Ballance had any sort of form though. If you pick a youngster who has scored for fun in first class matches then you have to trust him. A performance like this could've been the difference in the Bangladesh series and Ballance just isn't in a place to do it right now.
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Hameed looks a real player.
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Whisper it, but it looks like we've got a real player here doesn't it? I thought it might be too soon to plonk him in the team on a difficult tour, but how about that.
Hameed looks the real deal doesn't he?
Hameed looks a real player.
I am absolutely impressed and not wishing to curse him I am confident that he will nail a ton tomorrow.
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It makes the decision to give Ballance 1 more chance all the stranger as well.
In hindsight yes, but no one knows how a 19 year old is going to react on debut, he could have got two ducks and then Ballance at 4 makes sense.
Only if Ballance had any sort of form though. If you pick a youngster who has scored for fun in first class matches then you have to trust him. A performance like this could've been the difference in the Bangladesh series and Ballance just isn't in a place to do it right now.
You have to trust him up to a point, England have struggled for years to replace Strauss as an opener and a 19 year old who had only played one season of first class cricket was a risk that had to be backed up with a good middle order. Okay, so now he has proved himself as the calmest debutant I've seen for years and we might be able to trust our top order a bit more. Ballance will be fine, he has the talent, he just maybe isn't a Test opener.
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Hameed just has it. He has obvious talent and also has the temprament. He'll be a star.
Ballance can come back as a Test player, I saw his ability in person when he got a century in Southampton, but he has to acknowledge he has a technical issue and make steps to address it. He has refused to acknowledge it in the past.
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Game on here folks.
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Maybe...
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Really positive match for England. We've got four of our main batsmen getting centuries, Hameed having a great debut, Rashid performing and just a great team effort.
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Now that we've drawn a game that we'd have won with another 15-20 overs to play with can the comments about Vaughan being a c**t for suggesting we were on for a whitewash be revisited. As I said, he was being a dick because he was either trying to be controversial or he hasn't watched any cricket in India for the last 7-8 years. India were always going to try to bat us out the games because it's what they do, they try to take 200ish overs out of the game for 600-650 and then hope they can sneak some big wickets and put pressure on the visitors, that's how they play because the game in India is so focused on batters getting big centuries. Bangladesh relied on their bowlers because they knew they couldn't compete with the bat and made pitches to suit that approach. I think the series will be very close, I suspect 2-1(either way) or 1-1 and pretty much every meaningful commentator saw it similar.
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Well I don't know look at India's recent record at home. Vaughan's comment was fine, he said we might get whitewashed if we were consistently 30-3, 40-4 and I think that was a valid point. In this game we bucked our recent trend for losing a cluster of early wickets and we had success.
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Well I don't know look at India's recent record at home. Vaughan's comment was fine, he said we might get whitewashed if we were consistently 30-3, 40-4 and I think that was a valid point. In this game we bucked our recent trend for losing a cluster of early wickets and we had success.
But it was always ignoring the fact that England have 2 of the best batsmen in the world in that top 4 and the best 5-8 they've had in my lifetime. The idea that weaknesses at 2 and 3 could lead to the situation yu describe is, at best, far-fetched and certianly not something I'd expect to see from a serious pundit.
In all honesty it's a suggestion that I've only seen treated with anything but distain by people on here who I think have been beaten down by villa performances and have forgotten what positivity feels like.
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The toss will be an important factor in all the tests. If England can win them and bat first and post totals in excess of 300 in their first innings then India having to bat last won't fancy it. The pitches will be dust bowls from now on.
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Well I don't know look at India's recent record at home. Vaughan's comment was fine, he said we might get whitewashed if we were consistently 30-3, 40-4 and I think that was a valid point. In this game we bucked our recent trend for losing a cluster of early wickets and we had success.
But it was always ignoring the fact that England have 2 of the best batsmen in the world in that top 4 and the best 5-8 they've had in my lifetime. The idea that weaknesses at 2 and 3 could lead to the situation yu describe is, at best, far-fetched and certianly not something I'd expect to see from a serious pundit.
In all honesty it's a suggestion that I've only seen treated with anything but distain by people on here who I think have been beaten down by villa performances and have forgotten what positivity feels like.
I didn't think we'd lose 5-0, but if you look at England's recent performances the top order had not performed as a unit. His argument was that if that continued then it would be far harder for the middle and lower order to dig us out against spin. I think that was a reasonable assertion to make. The way the quote was taken out of context was the issue.
Hopefully now though the batting line up will be full of confidence and we'll be in with a decent shout.
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but it's not about being taken out of context, whatever he meant he decided to use the term 'whitewash' fully aware that the chances of it were incredibly slim. He's tried to suggest he was making a point about the top order but I'm afraid it's bullshit. If he didn't have precious for talking bullshit I'd give him the benefit of the doubt but in the context of the nonsense he's said about various things relating to England since he left it's pretty clear that he's put being controversial before being a measured pundit.
Everyone knows we needed to find an opener and a 3 but comments like that put a unnecessary extra pressure on those choices.
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I was listening to the show and they were talking about Ballance and the consistent digging our middle order has had to do over recent years to steady an innings. I think his point was fair; you do that every test on the tour and you'll lose every time against a quality side.
He didn't say he thought we'd lose 5-0.
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Michael Vaughan is a gobshite. And a massive c*nt, always worth repeating.
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I was listening to the show and they were talking about Ballance and the consistent digging our middle order has had to do over recent years to steady an innings. I think his point was fair; you do that every test on the tour and you'll lose every time against a quality side.
He didn't say he thought we'd lose 5-0.
Agree completely. The show as a whole needs to be listened to understand what he was saying.
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I'm not even talking about his radio comments, I'm talking about his telegraph columns where he consistently moans about us having no world class spinners and the batting being shit and too aggressive. In there he mentioned a few times during the Bangladesh series that we were going to get hammered if things didn't change. It's not that he's wrong about that, it's that he might as well saying that if the sun doesn't come up it will be dark. That's the problem, for every useful insight he offers there are 5-6 pointless observations and lots of meaningless drivel.
As I say, there are fans on here who do the same about Villa where everything is shit and there can be no silver linings, it's a win-win approach, get it right and you can claim to be really good at knowing what to think and you should've been listened to, get it wrong and most people forget about it and everyone is happy because we've won stuff. I'm not saying that you should ignore the bad stuff, just that when you're 4th in the world and were within touching distance of first during the summer then there's got to be more good than bad, but vaughan doesn't seem to want to acknowledge it.
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Sad to see that the Crims have lost another test. I think that's 6 on the bounce. Long may that rub continue!
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Odd to see Pakistan second in the world rankings. Not a bad side at all, as their performance (in patches) during the England tour demonstrated. But second best in the world?
Weird to see a very good NZ team down amongst the deadmen again (7th).
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Odd to see Pakistan second in the world rankings. Not a bad side at all, as their performance (in patches) during the England tour demonstrated. But second best in the world?
Weird to see a very good NZ team down amongst the deadmen again (7th).
That's the benefit of having a great bowling attack.
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Odd to see Pakistan second in the world rankings. Not a bad side at all, as their performance (in patches) during the England tour demonstrated. But second best in the world?
Weird to see a very good NZ team down amongst the deadmen again (7th).
That's the benefit of having a great bowling attack.
I agree. The top sides all have excellent bowling units whereas there are very few world class batsmen in any of the sides.
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Looking like this might be tricky.
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I thought we were poor at times today, particularly in the afternoon session.
It could have been different if Rashid had held on to the chance off Stokes. Victor mentioned on TMS that we were bowling to a plan/trap with short pitched bowling and two men out for the hook shot. Why have the weakest fielder in the side, or so Victor said, out on the boundary for the mis-timed hook shot when you're bowling to a plan? You really need your best catchers out there
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Spinners really poor today.
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Woakes dropped?
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Woakes dropped?
There was talk of him having a slight knee injury yesterday so I suspect they decided to rest him so they can rotate the bowlers a little. I suspect Broad will miss at least 1 test as well.
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Woakes dropped?
There was talk of him having a slight knee injury yesterday so I suspect they decided to rest him so they can rotate the bowlers a little. I suspect Broad will miss at least 1 test as well.
There's no way that they would drop Woakes after the year he's had. He has a slight niggle so given his workload in tests and limited overs Cricket it makes sense to rest him.
Counting this test there's four tests between now and Christmas, with the next test in July next year. The scheduling has been stupid.
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It was a good effort to knock them over for 450, but this looks pretty tricky.
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A run out of Hameed is not what we needed.
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Really really poor. We're in big trouble now. Duckett seems to have a real problem against off spinners, and Root's shot was just horrible.
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Yet again it's the usual batting malaise of lose one lose several.
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This is dismal. Once again we've lost half our team for less than 100. It's not good enough and this is not a horrible batting pitch or anything.
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What pisses me off is that it's not technical issues that are getting us, it's a mental thing. Individually they can't handle the pressure of slow bowling and men around the bat, self-destruction inevitably follows.
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I think it's a technical issue with Duckett, but in fairness in Bangladesh and India it's probably the first time he's faced quality off spin.
Root's dismissal and instigation of Hameed's run out were both really disappointing.
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I guess the key question is how do you solve this? I agree with PWA about Duckett, he's probably never faced spin like this before this winter, and a few others will only have a few matches against spin in genuinely spin friendly conditions so how do we give them the experience to fall back on? That's been a key problem for years.
The most disappointing wicket for me was Cook, who really should've been able to handle the bowling they were giving him, yes it was a good spell of bowling but there was nothing new about it.
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I'm not sure what you do other than literally set up some sort of academy in the sub-continent, but then you're still going to struggle to face the quality of spin you'd face at this level.
I think there is a mentality issue that keeps rearing its head. We tend to lose clusters of 3 or 4 wickets on a more regular basis than other countries.
It is going to take a miracle to save this game now.
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The Broad wicket looks poor from the umpire, seemed to going well down leg. The indian TV company didn't show hawkeye which is telling for me.
All out 200 behind but India not forcing the follow on.
We now need to get 2-3 quick wickets to make them regret that.
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We got those two wickets. We need Broad to go on one of his runs here.
As an aside, and I hope he proves me wrong, but again I'm thinking what is exactly that Ansari brings to the side? His spin bowling, which I think they've selected him, for looks no better than Root's and his batting doesn't appear up to it. He needs to improve an awful lot to be a Test player.
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Anderson gets Pujara.
I really think I'd go with a 4 seamer 2 spinner split in the next game.
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Woakes for Ansari will be the obvious change. I'd give Duckett another chance and if he fails again would prefer to see Buttler rather than Ballance replace him.
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I think Duckett is a real talent with a clear technical flaw. I'm confident he'll be a quality Test player, he just needs to use this series as a way to learn his game.
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Watched this without any sound but had me chuckling.
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So unlucky for Hameed.
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Blow to lose Cook there.
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Such a shame to lose Cook there, as that changes everything. Great resolve shown, but India are massive favourites now.
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Pretty poor today. I think Duckett's mind has gone and he shouldn't play the next game. I think he'll have a very good Test career, but I'm not sure playing him is doing him any good at the moment. Ansari will also go as well, as he's not really making any sort of positive contribution.
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Woeful.
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Series already gone by lunch.
Idiotic from Cook and Root in particular.
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Looks like Stokes and Bairstow are shoring the innings up.
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Series already gone by lunch.
Idiotic from Cook and Root in particular.
Add Moeen to that list too.
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One day our top order might develop a fucking collective brain.
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As much as I like him......moeen was brainless
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Poor shot from Buttler too to add to the list. They've all had starts and just squandered it for themselves.
Watching the Aussies against the Saffers, brilliant hundred from Kawajha earlier.
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I'm glad Rashid is proving me wrong, he's bowling great.
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Pretty disastrous session that.
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This is still a good surface to bat on. Odd one keeping low but it's flat as a pancake.
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Stokes finished with 5 for 73. 134 lead for India.
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The batsman need to do a proper job now. We're massively in a hole here.
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Madness from Moeen who joins Cook in the pavilion.
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As much as I like him......moeen was brainless
Just realised that this was a comment from the first innings but its relevant again
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I don't know what it is with Moeen, he just plays the most stupid shots sometimes. We're done here short of a miracle.
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Root opening so I assume Hameed is injured? What's he done?
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Root opening so I assume Hameed is injured? What's he done?
Suspected broken finger
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Root opening so I assume Hameed is injured? What's he done?
Aggers and Vaughan on TMS said that the England management had been very cagey about Hameed. They said he'd been in the nets but were saying nothing about a possible injury. Suggests it is an injury though.
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Aggers apparently blaming the Radio 4 Daily Service people for the last wicket because they didn't say a prayer for England
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First Test is looking like the anomaly here then. We've reverted to the top order failing in every innings.
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Anyone got Ian Bell's phone number..?
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Another top order failure, Michael Vaughan had a point.
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He did. I'd be curious to see some stats on how often we've had 4/5 wickets down for less than 100 in the past 18 months.
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We seem to have loads of players comfortable to bat in the middle order after 30, 40, 50 overs but none who can move up the order.
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Hameed again the shining light for England. If any of the other top order batsmen had shown the amount of effort that Hameed and Root showed we might of put on something to defend.
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This has been an absolute battering.
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This series has 4-0 written all over it now.
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Incredible grit and guts shown by Hameed. It would be nice to see the other batters value their wicket like that.
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Incredible grit and guts shown by Hameed. It would be nice to see the other batters value their wicket like that.
We seem to have solved the who should open with Cook problem which has been a headache since Strauss retired. Hameed really looks the part and has had some bad luck on in this series with one that kept very low getting him out, being run out by his partner and now his hand injury. He will miss the final two tests as he is being sent home for surgery. It will be interesting to see who they call up from the development squad who are in the UAE as cover.
Now if we can just sort out the other batsmen we'd be a damned good side!
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Time to call up Ian bell.
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Time to call up Ian bell.
He's well up for it if recent interviews are anything to go by, but he is playing in the Big Bash for the Perth franchise. Not sure if that would be a factor.
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Looks like it'll be Keaton Jennings.
I assume that he'll play, else why bother calling him up
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Well been confirmed that Jennings and Liam Dawson jetting out for last 2 tests.
Jennings i can understand but Liam Dawson...why oh why??
What has young Leach at Somerset got to do.
20 championship wkts @ 43.85 versus 65 @ 21.87. Strange decision to me.
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Jennings looks a bloody good player.
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Looks like I chose the wrong test to go to in terms of England's performance. Ah well.
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Maybe not.
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Brilliant innings from Jennings, but two wickets in the space of an over might have changed the game here.
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With the amount of spin here i think 300-350 is a good score and we should be in that region. I suspect buttler and stokes might open up a little with the new ball and try to push things along.
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Moving forward this innings from Jennings is really interesting. If he backs this up with good performances in the next innings and the last test then we've got 3 openers who all deserve to start.
I think for next summer we probably won't pick Rashid so I'd be tempted to push root to 4 (where he's at his best), put Moeen back down to 7 and Buttler to 8 (or vice versa). Then Jennings can move down to 3.
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370 - 400 should be doable tomorrow with just 5 down. Important the spinners do their job tomorrow now.
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370 - 400 should be doable tomorrow with just 5 down. Important the spinners do their job tomorrow now.
I actually think that the variable bounce that we've seen might work well for Stokes, Woakes and Ball as well so I suspect they could play a big part but there might not be much in it for Anderson.
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I think the benefit of this tour is the emergence of Hameed and Jennings. They're going to have to play now.
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Congratulation to young Mr Jennings however he really should be playing for South Africa. But now that he is playing for England I can see Jennings/Hameed opening pair for many years to come.
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I don't have a problem when a player has an English parent. It's if it's purely residency that it's a bit of an issue, mainly because the qualifying period is too short.
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I don't have a problem when a player has an English parent. It's if it's purely residency that it's a bit of an issue, mainly because the qualifying period is too short.
If the residency started as a child I'm fine with it but not as an adult. Renshaw and Kawaja for instance were born in England and Pakistan with no Aussie heritage but came as kids.
Wagner and Tahir for NZ and SA on the other hand......
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Really important knock from Butler and great stuff from Ball.
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After a seemingly long period of batting collapses we seem to have stumbled upon a couple of good young players with solid techniques. Now if they can avoid catching the batting-malaise diesese that's infected their new colleagues then we should prosper.
As has been mentioned, assuming Cook continues and I'm beginning to question if he's lost the hunger for international cricket, a line up of Cook, Hameed, Jennings, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes, Broad & Anderson looks strong.
I think they may well look to develop Rashid as a test player as he offers more wth the ball. I like Ali but he's disappointed on this tour. He doesn't deserve to be dropped but Rashid is improving as a bowler.
In this series I think Buttler deserves huge credit. He's played two innings of patience and maturity which is excellent from a player who had not played red ball cricket for so long.
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My Dear Old Thing has just said that the sightscreen is "sexy".
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My Dear Old Thing has just said that the sightscreen is "sexy".
Not surprising when you remember that cranes and buses give him a boner.
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We're going to have to come back strong in the morning. All it takes is a couple of wickets.
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Was a tough afternoon today, having to change the ball was a blow as well. From what I saw I think the line Jimmy was trying to bowl was good but I'm not convinced by the length. Aiming a middle and leg on a good length just feels wrong to me, aim at their heels or their armpit if you want to bowl that line, something that takes them out of their comfort zone.
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Our spinners just aren't disciplined enough to maintain any real pressure. I'm confident in English conditions we'd give them a doings, as I genuinely don't think there is a fag paper between the two sides.
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I thought that they'd called up another spinner to replace Ansari ?
Why go into a Test in India with four seamers ?
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Our spinners just aren't disciplined enough to maintain any real pressure. I'm confident in English conditions we'd give them a doings, as I genuinely don't think there is a fag paper between the two sides.
I thought Moeen bowled well in the main, they scored off him but not many were risk free, whereas Rashid seemed to gift them a 4 most overs which is where you just can't build pressure. Part of it was that they were going after him but he's experienced enough that he shouldn't panic like he did at times today.
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This match is going away from us fast.
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This match is going away from us fast.
I think the deficit at stumps with Kohli still at the crease on a wearing pitch means that the test is now beyond us.
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It's not been that great to be honest. Jennings and Buttler aside we have didn't really perform as well as we should have. From our start we should have got 500. Then the bowling balance just doesn't look right for this pitch.
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Glad that Chef made full use of those four seamers today
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Glad that Chef made full use of those four seamers today
Woakes looked shattered from all the effort by the end.
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Glad that Chef made full use of those four seamers today
Woakes looked shattered from all the effort by the end.
I think he must have succumbed to Delhi Belly. He didn't bowl from tea on day two until after tea on day three, he was out in the field but I don't understand why Cook didn't bowl him.
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That's Jennings back down to earth with a bump then!
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We've bowled poorly in this game, but our failure in this series is mainly down to poor batting.
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The decision by Oxenford to give Bairstow out caught was one of the worst I've ever seen. He missed the ball by a good six inches. That's why DRS is such a good idea.
However, his decision to give Stokes out was excellent
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We've bowled poorly in this game, but our failure in this series is mainly down to poor batting.
And India having better players almost right through the order.
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In these conditions they do.
As an aside I've decided a quite like Kohli. He's a spikey character, but you can see from the crowds at this Test he's brought back an interest in Test cricket in India. That is vital for the game and its future.
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We've bowled poorly in this game, but our failure in this series is mainly down to poor batting.
It's been a bit of a stinker of a series for us. The line up in positions 1-5 has gone from being a concern to a full blown problem and we've got the summer to work on it before we head down under next winter. Hameed is the only real positive to emerge in the batting department along with the knockdown from Jennings and Buttler.
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We've been absolutely smashed in these last 3 Tests. There isn't the mental application there at all.
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What this series says, to me, is that we don't get enough of our players to play in different conditions and it means they struggle to play spin on length on a pitch like this. The technical flaws in the batting were almost entirely getting caught forward when they should be back or vice versa, that's inexperience of the conditions. Somehow we need to get our 16-24 year olds out into the world a lot more so they've got experience of all kinds of conditions once they break into the test side and they're not learning in such an unforgiving environment.
It's not just the batting, given where we had them at 307-6 they never should've got more than 400-450 but we let them slip the hook and sert a match winning score. Our 2nd innings was then poor but it was yesterday morning with the ball where this game was lost.
I also think that we really need to review Cook's role. He's done well but I think we might need to look at a new captain soon. He's wilted under pressure a few times in this series (and in Bangladesh) and some of his decisions in this test were very questionable. I think he's thinking along the same lines himself with some of his quotes about Root's potential as a captain this morning.
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I've thought throughout this tour that Cook looks like he's lacking motivation. Maybe he is and it's affecting both him and the team. I believe that his wife gave birth to their second child at the start of October and that he's hardly spent any time with them. That must be really tough.
Once this tour is over he can go back home and recharge his batteries, the next test isn't until next July. I think the test schedule over the past few weeks has been ridiculous, by the end of the 5th test we will have played 7 tests on the subcontinent in 2 months. It's hardly surprising that Cook looks mentally shot, it's a tough place to tour.
I suspect he wants one more shot at the Aussies down under so will stay on as captain to try and revenge the debacle of the last tour. If not his resignation will come soon after the 5th test. This side has some young talent emerging and we need an experienced captain to lead them. I hope he stays until we hopefully retain the Ashes next year and then resign on a high. I won't be surprised if he goes though.
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Decent day, 4 down after losing both openers cheaply is pretty good, should be looking to set a decent total here. haven't seen much but I did catch the root dismissal which was very harsh, when there is a high degree of uncertainty I think they should really give the batsman the benefit of the doubt and I'm far from being convinced that the snick was bat of ball and not bat on floor. If they found footage later which was more conclusive then I've missed that but the review at the time was one that I can't imagine management being happy about.
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Fine knock from Moeen, we need him to go on from here. Mo has four centuries this year, which is a great effort. His are for improvement is his focus in his first half hour to an hour at the crease. That's where he's vulnerable.
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Fine knock from Moeen, we need him to go on from here. Mo has four centuries this year, which is a great effort. His are for improvement is his focus in his first half hour to an hour at the crease. That's where he's vulnerable.
He has had a good year but I think number four is too high in the order for him. Move him back down to seven.
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I'd be inclined to have him at 5 or 6.
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Top effort from Dawson and Rashid.
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the tail wagged and gave the bowlers something to work with. I just Hopw India don't go and knock 700+ now.
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The problem with the bowling will be that Cook is naturally negative in his field placings and that's normally ok because he can trust his seamers to get regular wickets in most conditions. I honestly don't think our batting is why we're 3-0 - we'd love to get bigger scores and in 2nd test we were poor but other than that we've scored enough runs to be competitive but we've repeatedly failed to take advantage when we get a foothold with the ball.
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I'd be inclined to have him at 5 or 6.
Just watching The Verdict on TV and although the current test is still going, they are having a debate on the line up going forward towards the Ashes next year. I think we are looking at Cook, Hameed, Jennings, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Moeen, Woakes, ?, Broad, Anderson. The panel were saying that Ali and Bairstow could change positions and were also talking about who that ? should be. They were saying that there is a spot there for a spinner to come in as none of the current incumbents have really nailed down the spot.
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Jennings's scores have been: a century (dropped on 0 before he'd scored, 0 and 1.
Not much to base future selection on!
He's got plenty to prove yet.
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That's true, but I think he has talent and he can do a job.
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Jennings's scores have been: a century (dropped on 0 before he'd scored, 0 and 1.
Not much to base future selection on!
He's got plenty to prove yet.
Got to be given a chance though Dave?
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I think that the fielding plan is now just 'everybody scatter'
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the tail wagged and gave the bowlers something to work with. I just Hopw India don't go and knock 700+ now.
You were saying ......
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Just checked the score. Good grief.
Edit: We've taken a wicket! Right back in this now. Er.
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Nair's 303 is only the third highest maiden century in tests
Top of the list is 365 by some bloke called Sobers
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Well that's another embarrassing chapter to add to this series.
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Can we change the thread to Cricket 2017 soon? we've just got our tickets for South Africa at the Oval next July, the Saturday test. It's the 100th test at the Oval.
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This is humiliation. We should just refuse tour tour in India or Bangladesh until we develop some spinners and some batsmen who can play against them.
But of course we will never do that while our first class game is slowly but surely geared towards the baseball format where the few slow bowlers we do have are taught to keep it tight rather than actually take wickets.
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This is humiliation. We should just refuse tour tour in India or Bangladesh until we develop some spinners and some batsmen who can play against them.
But of course we will never do that while our first class game is slowly but surely geared towards the baseball format where the few slow bowlers we do have are taught to keep it tight rather than actually take wickets.
I think you're makingt an unfair link between t20 and 'keep it tight' bowlers. The 2 guys who've destroyed us in this tour came through the IPL, the teenager in bangladesh who outclassed us was a t20 product.
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I think we've shown real mental fragility in this series. That above everything has stopped us competing. With the bat everytime we've been in a position to really dominate the game we've let it slip. The same applies to the bowling. It's been mirrored in the field where our catching has been poor. They need to learn how to show grit. It shouldn't happen on this pitch, but it wouldn't shock me if we are about 100-5 at lunch.
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This is humiliation. We should just refuse tour tour in India or Bangladesh until we develop some spinners and some batsmen who can play against them.
But of course we will never do that while our first class game is slowly but surely geared towards the baseball format where the few slow bowlers we do have are taught to keep it tight rather than actually take wickets.
I think you're makingt an unfair link between t20 and 'keep it tight' bowlers. The 2 guys who've destroyed us in this tour came through the IPL, the teenager in bangladesh who outclassed us was a t20 product.
Well they are obviously doing something in their first class set up better than we are then, because we haven't bought a genuinely dangerous spinner through for years. Maybe they encourage their T20 spinners to try to take wickets rather than just hope to keep the scoring down to less than 6 an over, I don't know, I don't watch enough T20 to know.
All I do know is that if we want to have a genuine chance of ever getting near to being the number one Test nation again we have got to learn how to play in the subcontinent, a few years ago I thought we were getting there, we have gone massively backwards since.
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This is humiliation. We should just refuse tour tour in India or Bangladesh until we develop some spinners and some batsmen who can play against them.
But of course we will never do that while our first class game is slowly but surely geared towards the baseball format where the few slow bowlers we do have are taught to keep it tight rather than actually take wickets.
I think you're makingt an unfair link between t20 and 'keep it tight' bowlers. The 2 guys who've destroyed us in this tour came through the IPL, the teenager in bangladesh who outclassed us was a t20 product.
Well they are obviously doing something in their first class set up better than we are then, because we haven't bought a genuinely dangerous spinner through for years. Maybe they encourage their T20 spinners to try to take wickets rather than just hope to keep the scoring down to less than 6 an over, I don't know, I don't watch enough T20 to know.
All I do know is that if we want to have a genuine chance of ever getting near to being the number one Test nation again we have got to learn how to play in the subcontinent, a few years ago I thought we were getting there, we have gone massively backwards since.
Bingo. Working out what that is and drilling it into our youngsters early is the only way we're going to find a world class spinner. I can only think of 1 for the last 25 years (Swann) so it's probably worth looking into what he did differently as well.
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We'll lose tomorrow I reckon. Incredible effort to lose two tests having got over 400 batting first. Really poor. We'd beat them in England though. Twas ever thus.
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4 wickets for 26. Could be an interesting last few hours.
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This is pathetic. Our top order is mentally so weak it is unbelievable, any pressure comes on and they fold.
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Some absolutely pathetic shots considering we ar supposed to be tryng to save a game.
England need to take a long hard look at themselves after this tour, they have been mostly awful.
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I agree. At the risk of sounding like Boycott though, I think too many matches this year has not helped
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I agree. At the risk of sounding like Boycott though, I think too many matches this year has not helped
If they had played all those matches in England it would have been a different story but take them out of their comfort zone and this is the result.
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I agree. At the risk of sounding like Boycott though, I think too many matches this year has not helped
If they had played all those matches in England it would have been a different story but take them out of their comfort zone and this is the result.
Excellent piece on Cricinfo by George Dobell talks about this.
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Vaughan's assessment was pretty accurate, it wasn't that far off a whitewash. Some of these collapses, alongside the one in Bangladesh, are the worst I've seen. There was no grit, technique or brains used in lots of the dismissals.
If you look across the year as a whole, it started well in South Africa but since then we've been very poor. We've also lost every single final Test of a series under Bayliss haven't we?
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We've looked inept with the bat in this series and lack application. At times some of them have lacked technique. Add in the mental fragility and you have a recipe for disaster.
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Out batted, out bowled, out fielded, out thought and out captained. Throw in some mental fragility of losing from positions sides should never lose from and it's been easily our worst series sice the Ashes humiliation in 13/14.
Maybe it's time for Cook to just concentrate on his batting (not that Root's been scoring many runs) but we need to be bolder when we get the chance. After we surrendered the initiative in the first test it's been one way traffic.
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It's time for change and I think Andy Strauss will deliver. I think he'll look at all aspects of the last 12 months or so. I don't think he's the type to make knee jerk decisions but will look at the positions of Cook and Bayliss. Piss poor performance again today.
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I'm a Worcestershire fan. Why are we not signing players? Does anyone else out there think that Bumpy has taken us as far as he's likely to? Genuinely interested in opinions.
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It's time for change and I think Andy Strauss will deliver. I think he'll look at all aspects of the last 12 months or so. I don't think he's the type to make knee jerk decisions but will look at the positions of Cook and Bayliss. Piss poor performance again today.
I think changing Cook is a better idea than changing Bayliss. We need to take our chances and really pressure teams, Cook is only really willing to do that when Jimmy and Broad are bowling, everyone else gets a containing field which just slows the game down and lets players find their form, particularly when we have spinners on, Cook seems completely unwilling to set an attacking field for Ali or Rashid.
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I think you're right Paul. Keeping Bayliss is a better bet than Cook. Hopefully Root won't buckle under the additional pressure if he gets the captaincy. We are very close to being a very good side, need a replacement for Anderson soon I guess but we have good quality in the likes of Stokes and Broad.
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I think you're right Paul. Keeping Bayliss is a better bet than Cook. Hopefully Root won't buckle under the additional pressure if he gets the captaincy. We are very close to being a very good side, need a replacement for Anderson soon I guess but we have good quality in the likes of Stokes and Broad.
Woakes needs to be worked with for that, he had a superb season at home but looked like he'd been overused by the time we got to India and then struggled on flat pitches. He's improved massively over the last 2 years though so he needs to be kept in the mix.
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Bayliss should be kept, I don't think there should be any real debate about that at the moment.
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Bayliss should be kept, I don't think there should be any real debate about that at the moment.
Agree, but this was a proper hiding, the sort we haven't really seen since tours of Australia and the West Indies in the 80's and 90's. For a while now, we haven't really seen application in the batting when the going gets tough. There doesn't seem to be the collective will to dig in when times get tough and collapses are happening on a pretty frequent basis now.
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On a tour where they knew that the seamers wouldn't be used much and any spells would have been short, maybe England should have taken a risk on Tymal Mills
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On a tour where they knew that the seamers wouldn't be used much and any spells would have been short, maybe England should have taken a risk on Tymal Mills
Mills has a back condition which means he can only bowl in short bursts so he only plays T20 cricket. He doesn't play any other form of the game.
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On a tour where they knew that the seamers wouldn't be used much and any spells would have been short, maybe England should have taken a risk on Tymal Mills
Mills has a back condition which means he can only bowl in short bursts so he only plays T20 cricket. He doesn't play any other form of the game.
That's why I thought that this series might have suited Mills. Short spells and warm weather
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On a tour where they knew that the seamers wouldn't be used much and any spells would have been short, maybe England should have taken a risk on Tymal Mills
Mills has a back condition which means he can only bowl in short bursts so he only plays T20 cricket. He doesn't play any other form of the game.
That's why I thought that this series might have suited Mills. Short spells and warm weather
Sadly I don't think that he's up to it, which is a shame because he was has talent.
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I'm a Worcestershire fan. Why are we not signing players?
Because no players want to sign for a Minor County.
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On a tour where they knew that the seamers wouldn't be used much and any spells would have been short, maybe England should have taken a risk on Tymal Mills
Mills has a back condition which means he can only bowl in short bursts so he only plays T20 cricket. He doesn't play any other form of the game.
That's why I thought that this series might have suited Mills. Short spells and warm weather
I think Mills is at a state of health where 5 overs a couple of times a week is the extent of what he can manage. He just wouldn't be usable in longer formats sadly.
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Tymal Mills was a commentator on some T20 games last season. I think that he has a future in the media when he does pack up playing
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On a tour where they knew that the seamers wouldn't be used much and any spells would have been short, maybe England should have taken a risk on Tymal Mills
Mills has a back condition which means he can only bowl in short bursts so he only plays T20 cricket. He doesn't play any other form of the game.
That's why I thought that this series might have suited Mills. Short spells and warm weather
I think Mills is at a state of health where 5 overs a couple of times a week is the extent of what he can manage. He just wouldn't be usable in longer formats sadly.
It's an interesting theory but I can't see any way he could have stood up to fielding for 2 days solid either
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I'm a Worcestershire fan. Why are we not signing players? Does anyone else out there think that Bumpy has taken us as far as he's likely to? Genuinely interested in opinions.
I understand Kohli is looking to play county cricket next year, you never know he might turn up at New Road!
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Laurie Evans has been released and will join Sussex.
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The problem was we played too many bowlers. An extra batsman was being out for but we played a superfluous bowler too often - Woakes, Anderson, Asari...
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The problem was we played too many bowlers. An extra batsman was being out for but we played a superfluous bowler too often - Woakes, Anderson, Asari...
It's a fair observation Peter but when your spinners are poor we had little choice. We won the last series in India with Swann and Panesar taking plenty of wickets. This time, Ali, Batty and Rashid bowled as well as could be expected. None of them are in the class of Swann or Panesar.
If Cook doesn't trust a bowler then he rarely lets them bowl. As a result they play extra bowlers who he trusts who, in Indian conditions are superfluous.
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King of Spain returns :)
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Meanwhile in New Zealand (live now on SS) one day international v Bangladesh. Jeetan Patel takes the second over of the game!!! getting back to normal the tannoy plays a Crowded House tune between overs.......