Is celebrating an away goal among home fans ever acceptable?

[Phil from the upper holte]

Yeah fuck em they all the same

[Dave Cooper please]

I wonder if there has ever actually been a parent who has thrown one of their kids out of the house just for supporting another football team?

I also wonder what it is about a football ground that brings out the worst in normally completely sane people.

[PaulWinch again]

I wonder if there has ever actually been a parent who has thrown one of their kids out of the house just for supporting another football team?

I also wonder what it is about a football ground that brings out the worst in normally completely sane people.

It is very strange, especially when you consider that rival fans seem to be able to get on pretty well in other sports.

[DrGonzo]

  I celebrated Young's winner against Everton volubly in the Gwladys Street Stand.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

Still think the chap is bending the truth: he is a ManU fan, says his wife is Villa and the kids in-between - yet they didn't celebrate the Villa goal but did celebrate the ManU goal. Seems very clear to me that the kids took their cue from dad. He ignored all of the T and Cs given at several stages in the booking process and took a risk, expecting everyone else to change the rules to suit him and his kids.
If he took them to OT in the home areas and they celebrated when Villa scored a well-deserved winner they're very likely to be ejected, just the same as they were at VP.
The kids are clearly ManU fans - take them to OT you wan*er!

[nigel]

I reckon there's, probably, a little bit more to this story than has been told.

[jon collett]

The thing is, we have actually had this at Villa Park. When I first started going the Witton End was nearly always a mix of home and away fans, that was usually where I stood and I can't remember there being that much trouble despite this being back in the days of some nasty hooliganism.
 Maybe (and at the risk of opening the hoolie debate again) this was because those that wanted to fight did so against opposition fans that also wanted to fight and didn't feel the need to take it out on dads and their kids who just wanted to watch a game of football?

That's how I remember it too and I'm not old enough (just) to remember the Witton End. Most games in the seats in the late 70s and throughout the 80s the supporters were mixed. See footage of Blues v Villa in the championship season when we score at railway end. I remember big away followings at villa park in the Trinity Road when we played Wolves in FA Cup in 83 and Everton in League cup semi in 84. At Coventry we used to take over the ground and locally based villa fans bought seats in the main stand. it was tolerated and there was banter. Even as late as 92 I remember being sat next to Sheffield Wednesday supporters when Sealey went mad about the goal that didn't cross the line. It was normal and people were civilised about it. Since all seater stadia we seem to have lost the hoolies but now have highly partisan intolerant people right around the ground.

I don't like midlands based Manchester united supporters any more than anybody else but surely their mere presence should not result in violence?

[tomd2103]

Still think the chap is bending the truth: he is a ManU fan, says his wife is Villa and the kids in-between - yet they didn't celebrate the Villa goal but did celebrate the ManU goal. Seems very clear to me that the kids took their cue from dad. He ignored all of the T and Cs given at several stages in the booking process and took a risk, expecting everyone else to change the rules to suit him and his kids.
If he took them to OT in the home areas and they celebrated when Villa scored a well-deserved winner they're very likely to be ejected, just the same as they were at VP.
The kids are clearly ManU fans - take them to OT you wan*er!

Yep and I think he's also not able to grasp that it was more likely his actions and not those of his kids that led to them getting kicked out.     

[dave.woodhall]

The thing is, we have actually had this at Villa Park. When I first started going the Witton End was nearly always a mix of home and away fans, that was usually where I stood and I can't remember there being that much trouble despite this being back in the days of some nasty hooliganism.
 Maybe (and at the risk of opening the hoolie debate again) this was because those that wanted to fight did so against opposition fans that also wanted to fight and didn't feel the need to take it out on dads and their kids who just wanted to watch a game of football?

That's how I remember it too and I'm not old enough (just) to remember the Witton End. Most games in the seats in the late 70s and throughout the 80s the supporters were mixed. See footage of Blues v Villa in the championship season when we score at railway end. I remember big away followings at villa park in the Trinity Road when we played Wolves in FA Cup in 83 and Everton in League cup semi in 84. At Coventry we used to take over the ground and locally based villa fans bought seats in the main stand. it was tolerated and there was banter. Even as late as 92 I remember being sat next to Sheffield Wednesday supporters when Sealey went mad about the goal that didn't cross the line. It was normal and people were civilised about it. Since all seater stadia we seem to have lost the hoolies but now have highly partisan intolerant people right around the ground.

I don't like midlands based Manchester united supporters any more than anybody else but surely their mere presence should not result in violence?

There seems to me to have been four stages of segregation/violence.

Seventies - not much segregation, occasional outbursts of violence inside between like-minded individuals but generally everyone got on.
Eighties - strictly enforced segregation, fences, away fans being marshalled, violence inside and out.
Nineties - less segregation, fences came down, less violence, everyone rubbed along fairly well. 
Now - less violence than ever before but more hostility. 

[rob_bridge]

I have been in home ends (very occasionally) when Villa have played and I have sat next to away fans in Villa Park who are sitting in the home end. On once occasion with my mate who is a Toffees fan - the 3-3 draw on Easter Sunday.

I used to say to away fans something along the lines of - '..whatever happens don't act like an idiot and jump up and down if your team scores....' None of them ever have.

The family stand is a tricky one but if it says Home Fans Only, which I assume it does,  then people should have the self awareness to be discreet for their own safety. Whether a family stand should accommodate mixed fans is a different angle.

Is it Fulham which has the 'neutral' area I seem to recall from a few years back?

[Stinkin_Thinkin]

I think there is an opportunity here for Tom Fox or whoever to get hold of this family and blow them out of the water with hospitality executive box, photos with Benteke and some free kits for kids as well as parents etc. and watch them turn their back on Man Utd for good. In my experience indecisive people like these once a season fans only need a light breeze in the right direction to blow them off the fence forever.
Especially if it's gone as far as radio five live and the telegraph, it would be good PR.

But on the whole I think it's not acceptable. I sat in the home end against WBA and was outed when they scored for NOT celebrating!  Took a punch in the stomach from one guy however Im not bitter about it, I knew it was a dodgy thing to do.

[Witton Warrior]

Interestingly Stourbridge had to introduce segregated standing and refreshments for the visit of.... FC United of Manchester

Someone who knows Stourbridge better than me will correct me if I'm wrong but I think this had more to do with the way Stour's ground is set out than a risk of trouble, you can't get a huge amount of fans in the clubhouse for a start so the cricket club opened up their pavilion bar and if you have ever been to their ground you will know that the walkway at the back of the main stand isn't ideal if something like 1000 fans are all trying to change ends at half-time.

That's about right. There's no segregation for Halesowen on Boxing Day and there will be extra facilities and access via the cricket ground into the Shed.

That was my point - segregation for FCUM but not against the Yeltz - I know the Memorial Ground well ;-)
 

[dave.woodhall]

I think there is an opportunity here for Tom Fox or whoever to get hold of this family and blow them out of the water with hospitality executive box, photos with Benteke and some free kits for kids as well as parents etc. and watch them turn their back on Man Utd for good. In my experience indecisive people like these once a season fans only need a light breeze in the right direction to blow them off the fence forever.
Especially if it's gone as far as radio five live and the telegraph, it would be good PR.

I agree entirely.

[jon collett]

The thing is, we have actually had this at Villa Park. When I first started going the Witton End was nearly always a mix of home and away fans, that was usually where I stood and I can't remember there being that much trouble despite this being back in the days of some nasty hooliganism.
 Maybe (and at the risk of opening the hoolie debate again) this was because those that wanted to fight did so against opposition fans that also wanted to fight and didn't feel the need to take it out on dads and their kids who just wanted to watch a game of football?

That's how I remember it too and I'm not old enough (just) to remember the Witton End. Most games in the seats in the late 70s and throughout the 80s the supporters were mixed. See footage of Blues v Villa in the championship season when we score at railway end. I remember big away followings at villa park in the Trinity Road when we played Wolves in FA Cup in 83 and Everton in League cup semi in 84. At Coventry we used to take over the ground and locally based villa fans bought seats in the main stand. it was tolerated and there was banter. Even as late as 92 I remember being sat next to Sheffield Wednesday supporters when Sealey went mad about the goal that didn't cross the line. It was normal and people were civilised about it. Since all seater stadia we seem to have lost the hoolies but now have highly partisan intolerant people right around the ground.

I don't like midlands based Manchester united supporters any more than anybody else but surely their mere presence should not result in violence?

There seems to me to have been four stages of segregation/violence.

Seventies - not much segregation, occasional outbursts of violence inside between like-minded individuals but generally everyone got on.
Eighties - strictly enforced segregation, fences, away fans being marshalled, violence inside and out.
Nineties - less segregation, fences came down, less violence, everyone rubbed along fairly well. 
Now - less violence than ever before but more hostility. 

I think whilst there was standing nobody cared less what happened in the seats. My experience is of away supporters always being in Trinity Road etc right through to mid 90s. I was in "home" seats at Highbury when Townsend and Whittingham scored late on and able to cheer. Once all seater stadia came in the distinction between supporters who stood and sat ended. Since all seater stadia came in all supporters behave as those in Holte used to - bravado, singing, gestures etc. So it now almost seems a fashion to threaten, gesture, call stewards to away supporters in "home" areas.

[dave.woodhall]

Interestingly Stourbridge had to introduce segregated standing and refreshments for the visit of.... FC United of Manchester

Someone who knows Stourbridge better than me will correct me if I'm wrong but I think this had more to do with the way Stour's ground is set out than a risk of trouble, you can't get a huge amount of fans in the clubhouse for a start so the cricket club opened up their pavilion bar and if you have ever been to their ground you will know that the walkway at the back of the main stand isn't ideal if something like 1000 fans are all trying to change ends at half-time.

That's about right. There's no segregation for Halesowen on Boxing Day and there will be extra facilities and access via the cricket ground into the Shed.

That was my point - segregation for FCUM but not against the Yeltz - I know the Memorial Ground well ;-)
 

It was the first time FCUM had played locally so there was no indication of how many they might bring or of the crowd. As it was, the biggest league gate for forty years turned up and everything was fine so if they play next season it could well be unsegregated.