I must be in the minority...

[Brend'Watkins]

Rolta, I admire your defence of PL. The spend list is worthy of note as is that he's been restricted in his efforts by things out of his control.  That said, you haven't for whatever reason said anything about the standard of football he's served up.  I'm well aware that he's been dealt a blow with key injuries but even so that shouldn't excuse him for the handling and behaviour of his coaching staff should it?  Nor should it be used as an excuse as to why we can't seem to take a fucking throw in without making a balls of it.  Nor should it be used as an excuse as a tactic to hoof the ball.  Nor should it be used as an excuse for the back four to pass the ball around aimlessly until Baker gives it to the opposition.  Nor should it be used as an excuse for a lack of movement when we have the ball in our possession.  Nor should it be used as a excuse for the purchases of Tonev, Luna or Hellenius or the loaning of Holt who on what they have shown are no better than our reserves.

 

[LeeB]

I'm guessing you are alluding to financial issues? Putting that aside, there is also the problems several managerial teams have had with coaching. Judged over the tenures of TSM 1 and TSM 2, standards have been woeful, to the extent that a lot of the playing staff seem worrying unfamiliar with what a football is, let alone how to play with one.

Yeah, I am really, but in the context I outlined they could both argue that each others under performance mitigates their own.

[pauliewalnuts]

Where your standpoint differs is that you think what he has achieved is in line with what has has had to work with. Don't make it out as if we're saying the financial regime isn't a problem, though, because you're absolutely miles wide of the mark.

Bit patronising. I feel like you may be a hardened messageboard pro You're confusing me getting a bit over excited over what I was writing about with me being a dick.

Anyway, yes you're right. The bit in bold is exactly where I'm at, thankyou for spelling it out! Possibly a bit patronising too.

I don't see why pointing out we're saying the same thing over something is patronising, to be honest, but hey ho.

I'm not suggesting you're a dick for disagreeing, not at all.

[not3bad]

Mat Kendrick: Paul Lambert's time at Villa should already be up

[Chris Smith]

Mat Kendrick: Paul Lambert's time at Villa should already be up

Then what, Mat?

Appoint a new manager, who will want the security of a decent contract, and lumber new owners with the compensation? Go into the new season without a manager?

I think it would be a stupid move to dismiss him while the ownership is in a state of flux. That doesn't mean it won't happen, I have given up thinking people in football act rationally.

[pauliewalnuts]

Indeed.

Whilst this "will we, won't we" situation persists, there's no point sacking or replacing a manager.

Which is another reason why we'd best all hope something is happening quickly. It's not even fair on Lambert - sackworthy though he may be - to have to put up with this level of uncertainty for too long. He's got his career to think about.

[Holte L2]

You basically expected a miracle from Lambert, and you're angry he hasn't achieved it yet. The thing is, Lerner knows this, and because of that I think Lambert is going to stay.

No, that's the point.

You're engaging in arguments against viewpoints which nobody actually has.

Nobody has suggested we should have finished in the top six or made huge achievements. They're arguing that we made no progress - in terms of points, league position or qualitatively on the pitch this season - and that's why they are unhappy.

You can keep changing that to a more extreme argument that suits your standpoint if you want, but it's somewhat misleading.

You also seem to think you're a lone voice of sanity in a sea of madness, as you're the only one who has noticed the squad is full of shit, inexperienced or lower league players. You don't say?

Don't you think we've all noticed this? We've talked about pretty much nothing else all season. Don't you think we all know that the wages policy is a huge issue?

Where your standpoint differs is that you think what he has achieved is in line with what has has had to work with. Don't make it out as if we're saying the financial regime isn't a problem, though, because you're absolutely miles wide of the mark.

And apparently I'm a bigot!

[KevinGage]

Mat Kendrick: Paul Lambert's time at Villa should already be up

Then what, Mat?

Appoint a new manager, who will want the security of a decent contract, and lumber new owners with the compensation? Go into the new season without a manager?

I think it would be a stupid move to dismiss him while the ownership is in a state of flux. That doesn't mean it won't happen, I have given up thinking people in football act rationally.

Agreed Chris.

[tomd2103]

Mat Kendrick: Paul Lambert's time at Villa should already be up

Seeing how the media have been dealt with by the club over the past few seasons, I doubt he would have written that if he was not confident that PL will be gone this summer. 

[eamonn]

Fair play Rolta for your lengthy defence of the man. I get the feeling though that he has had a free pass to a large extent in your eyes. What would he have had to do for you to want him gone? Only relegation, if even?
It's only towards the end of the season that the manager has finally started to admit we need investment and better players. But I believe from the moment he was aware of our interest in him becoming our manager two years ago, wage-bill and experience were barely a concern to him and he thought he'd thrive with the approach that served him well at Norwich - that you didn't need players who at played at the top level or had much experience to thrive in the Premier League. And he's been badly found-out on that score.

[tomd2103]

Fair play Rolta for your lengthy defence of the man. I get the feeling though that he has had a free pass to a large extent in your eyes. What would he have had to do for you to want him gone? Only relegation, if even?
It's only towards the end of the season that the manager has finally started to admit we need investment and better players. But I believe from the moment he was aware of our interest in him becoming our manager two years ago, wage-bill and experience were barely a concern to him and he thought he'd thrive with the approach that served him well at Norwich - that you didn't need players who at played at the top level or had much experience to thrive in the Premier League. And he's been badly found-out on that score.

Let's also remember that Alex McLeish was one of the top 20 best paid managers in the world during his time at Villa, so it's reasonable to assume that Paul Lambert is on a similar wage, if not more.  I feel that might have also been part of the appeal of the job. 

[mr underhill]

no I think you are wrong there. Didn't he say only a few weeks ago he's do the job even if there was no money!

[Rolta]

There is one thing rarely mentioned in this discussion about Lambert: we had the youngest team in the premiership last season. He has taken a team full of overpaid senior pros, replaced them with cheaper youngsters and academy players (clearly under Lerner's financial remit), and he has kept us steady. Additionally we were never really under threat from relegation this season, unlike last year, so you might say we've made a small step in the right direction – and yes, that was without the injured players.

I know people are a bit sceptical about Okore being lauded as our defensive answer, but he must surely have a chance of being better than who we ended up using this season.

My main point though is, for me, breaking certain records, can also be explained by how young our team is. You'd expect a young team to be so inconsistent.

[pauliewalnuts]

I can see the merits on both sides of the argument, but I can't help but think that arguing about Lambert and the question of whether or not he should stay just doesn't really matter at the moment. It is all, entirely about the ownership.

Without a decent change of ownership, things are never going to get any better. If we are going to condemn ourselves to an existence of bobbing around the arse end of the table by allowing our financial ambition to dictate that, then to be honest, I am not going to waste much sleep worrying about who the manager is.

When the argument becomes "who can keep us in the league and get us to a realistic ceiling of 10th?" I find it hard to get passionate about any possible managerial appointment.

[Monty]

Where we differ, Rolta, is that you take a mitigating factor and use it to essentially excuse Lambert, whereas I feel that his 'achievements', while to some degree lessened by the difficult situation, are still too remarkably bad for him to stay in the job. I'm also fed up of Villa having physically-minded managers with such tediously puritanical attitudes to football, but there we are.