I must be in the minority...

[paul_e]

Luna was a regular for the first half of the season (although we didn't have muich choice in the matter), Kozak was appearing regularly, as was Bacuna as you mention.  Bowery was signed the season before and was always a bit of a punt.  Okore would've been a regular but was out for half the season.

So from last summer you're left with Steer, who was always signed as a backup, Helenius who was pretty clearly signed with an eye on the future (I expected to see more of him but I never thought he's be a regular) and Tonev who's had a lot of subs appearances but just hasn't settled well enough to deserve more.

On top of that, the point of saying he's bought pretty well but not used the players well is that we've not seen the players used very well so far.  Benteke has been used excellently and looks like a genuine world class talent, aside from that I don't think he's got the best out of any of his signings.  Lowton, Bennett, Bacuna all have the potential to be good fullbacks but the defensive shape and lack of coaching has left them isolated and looking out of their depth.  Westwood has been good with the ball but defensively suspect, again the shape of the team and the coaching is largely at fault.

[KevinGage]

I can see this getting merged with the Lambert thread soon as it will be the same things said on both.

I think Lambert has had a harder job than most of us thought, however, whether he's had to cope with financial restraints, injuries, his backroom staff fucking him over or whatever else may or may not be going on, it's no excuse for the utter dross style of football we play most weeks.

I'm inclined to think that the things listed are a pretty convincing set of excuses!

We've seen some moments of promise with Lambert, and on a very tight budget.

We've also seen him regularly outgunned by far more modest sides in this division and lower down.  That's why the resources/ wage constraints line doesn't wash with me, I'm afraid.

[Chris Smith]

I suppose if the sale drags on for a few months it is almost akin to an audition for Lambert. If we are sitting comfortably in the top half a new owner might leave it to see how it plays out. If we are struggling then he is more likely to make a quick decision.

An early deal to sell probably means that Lambert will follow Lerner out the door.

[Billy Walker]

I'd like to see Lambert given a good crack at it.  I think it would make sense to keep him on for the sake of transition, anyway.  He knows who needs to be bombed out and he knows where the squad needs strengthening.  I backed him from day one and I'd give him 2014-15 and a proper kitty to prove himself.  I can understand why folk want him gone, though.

[JUAN PABLO]

who needs to be bombed out ?  Most the players he has signed

[Villafirst]

For me, any manager who loses over two legs to a fourth division team, doesnt deserve to be the manager of Aston Villa

And losing to Millwall and Sheffield United in the FA Cup.....

[tom jennings III]

Oh God that Millwall game. Best thing about the Bradford 2nd leg was my mate falling over on the ice running into the ground, luckily meant we missed the first 15 minutes.

[Clampy]

Managers have lost their job for less than losing 22 games in one season.

[garyfouroaks]

It has never simply been a question of "Lambert out".

The club still is carrying significant levels of debt. Whether Lerner will write that, or part of it, off, and whether new owner will clear the balane sheet is unknown.

There is every prospect of us under new ownership, but similar financial constraints. The football under Lambert has been dire. I was with a boxholder who is giving up the facility next season because not only can he not justify the expense, but people will not come as guests for free!
But would the league position be much different under anyone else? I am not so sure.

[Rolta]

It has never simply been a question of "Lambert out".

The club still is carrying significant levels of debt. Whether Lerner will write that, or part of it, off, and whether new owner will clear the balane sheet is unknown.

There is every prospect of us under new ownership, but similar financial constraints. The football under Lambert has been dire. I was with a boxholder who is giving up the facility next season because not only can he not justify the expense, but people will not come as guests for free!
But would the league position be much different under anyone else? I am not so sure.

And my thoughts it could be worse!

There's too much obsessing over "the Bradford game" the Millwall game" – I've supported Villa long enough to see us and other teams get knocked out of the cups by utter tripe. Against Bradford it was pretty much boys vs. men (look at our team). Even playing as badly as we did we still would have won if their goalkeeper didn't have a dream game in the away game. And do you know what, I'm not even making excuses. What I'm saying is shit happens. We also beat Man City in the same competition that year and beat them this year too. Beating Man City doesn't make Lambert the best manager in the world, just as losing to Bradford doesn't make him the worst manager in the world.

Also, we were on course to better last season this year until that awful six game run. That also happens to football clubs – they go on bad runs. They lose to shit teams. Sometimes the players don't perform.

I do want Lambert to stay for the reason I began with. I genuinely think that for the money he has had to spend, and the amount of money he has cut from our wagebill we are just about, if not a little better, than we should be. Maybe we deserved to be relegated thinking we could survive in the premiership on the cheap. We do have a young team now, and they're on low wages, so we can move on those that don't work and see who comes the other way.

What would have happened this year if Okore, Kozak and Benteke had been fit? (Sure Beteke was fit for a while, but he was injured a fair amount, and when he was fit he didn't always look it)

But that isn't an excuse either – players get injured. Some players get injured all season. But if they were fit I think we would have been in a better position rather than a worse position.

As for the quality of football. I agree that we have been horrible to watch for 87% of the season, but at least with Lambert (last season) we saw he would try and play in a more entertaining way, the way he played at Norwich. I genuinely don't think we have the squad yet, and I think he might have tried to make us more solid this year, which has been at the expense of a few ropey performances. We were better defensively this year. Having said that, I think Nathan Baker has been responsible for about 16 goals this season.

Who knows how it would have been if Tonev had worked out? And that's not an excuse either – when you buy plenty of cheap players not all of them are going to work out. Considering we've averaged about £2million for every player, then I think we've got our moneys worth from plenty of them. The problem is having a team where the average spend on players has been £2 million each. What do you all expect to happen!? We are the epitome of a budget side: no creativity, make mistakes, lose to lower league teams, play shit football.

The problem has never been Lambert – the problem is a lack of investment. Losing money on the stupid MON/Eck legacy wage bill has been a part of the cause for the lack of investment. Lambert really has done a job there. We're still a work in progress as far as I'm concerned.

[pauliewalnuts]

Lambert has never been the only problem, and I doubt you will find many people on here who will suggest he was.

The recruitment and wages policy is another one.

As for Lambert trying to get us to play entertaining football - first season, yes, but last season? My main memory is endless hoofing at Benteke. Or the space where Benteke used to be, after his injury.

Does he want us to play entertainingly? I thought so, yes, but if that's the case, how come his coaches were instilling long ball tactics into the squad - which resulted in endless long balls through the season?

As for better defensively - for a short while, yes, but it's hard to look at the number of games in which we conceded three or more goals and take much solace from that.

Don't get me wrong, I am instinctively pro Lambert, not anti, but I don't see how you can just discount the terrible football, the long balls (more than anyone in the league), the weird substitutions, the fact his coaching staff were cocking things up so much, the truly baffling tactics, the litany of records for shitness broken, and the horrible results quite so easily.

Yes, wages policy is a massive issue, but Lambert delivered even less than he should have with the resources he has, and we went backwards qualitatively on the first season. I don't see how you can write that off so easily.

[ktvillan]

I share some of the OPs sentiments but can find little excuse for:

Going 4-0-6 formation chasing a game over two legs against 4th level Bradford
Most of his signings not being up to it - especially as regards pace (Lowton, Westwood, KEA)  which is a very important factor in modern PL football.
Too much hoofball to a big man when we've seen that the team can knock it about  a bit at times.
Under use of promising youth players who can't be any worse than some of the dross he signed.
The Karsa/Culverhouse thing
Breaking pretty much every bad record for Villa in the top level
Various other tactical and defensive  horror shows

He might do better with a bigger budget, but those faults will still be there.

[Rolta]

All the things you guys say come down to the budget, imo.

We haven't got good enough players, and he changed our style to make us more solid. We were definitely more solid – how many last minute goals did we let in last season? I don't like it, but you have to compare last season to this season and see that we were never in the relegation zone, and technically we've been safe all season. We didn't need to go on a run to get us out of trouble like last year – this year we went on the exact opposite and had a period where we were awful (often without Benteke, although he played at Man U, Stoke), and we still stayed up by about 5 points.

It's been a strange end to the season, I admit. Things haven't progressed exactly the way any of us wanted. The fact is we are a budget team. Another fact is we have been much more unlucky with injuries this season than we were last season.

As for ktvillan and using more academy players – the fewer the better as far as I'm concerned. Who has really made it from our academy? The shining lights like Weimann, Albrighton, Baker, Clark most people want replaced in the team with better quality. And pace? This too comes back to averaging £2million on every player – you get what you pay for, and it's as simple as that.

Fuck records – we probably have the record for the youngest Villa team ever, and that explains away all your records. With young players you expect chaos, shock results, indifferent form.

None of us know the truth behind the Karsa/Culverhouse thing, and like the kitchen sink, it's coming from nowhere and being used as a stick to beat the manager.

As for tactics – basically, I think people who go into all that so ardently are armchair managers who think you know more than they do about running a football club in REALITY, and I think you take for granted things such as...the other team, the abilities of the other team compared to ours. Lambert was known as having tactical nouse at Norwich. After some games people come on here and go, "Lambert got it right" – the thing is there is such a fine line with all these things you guys bring up. "It was good tactics putting Weimann on Gerrard", our counter style beat Southampton away. We did what we needed to do against Hull, WBA, Chelsea – Man City in the league cup last year.

You're all so blinkered, and I think that comes from being hurt in a weird way. NOBODY likes what's going on with Villa at the moment, but I am totally convinced you all expect too much from the budget and circumstances.

If Lambert left now we're in a better position than when MON left, when Houllier left and when Mcleish left (financially mainly – and because the players we may not want are on low wages, and thus won't cripple the club).

Ktvillain: "Most of his signings aren't up to it" – but the buys average out at £2million. That's an average, but in truth there are players like Beteke, Kozak and Okore who were all bigger investments. Without them the other players would average about £1.6million. And as I said earlier, what do you expect from that level of investment? It wouldn't even buy you a Michu!!!

That last bit was a joke. We all are well aware that Lambert was given this job with financial constraints and with a task to get rid of the high earners. He has done that (bar Hutton, Given, Bent and Z'Zogbia), and with the small amount of money he had available he had to start building a squad AND keep us in the premiership. He has done that. Good job. Now he needs investment and experienced players, because none of us want to go through another season like that.

And it's rubbish saying "he should have bought a centre back in january" or anything like that, because anyone who says it are guessing about the money available and what was actually attempted. We need more than a centre back – we need a central midfielder more and an attacking midfielder more than that.

Oh, and we finished higher this season than last season, so that's progress.

And because Lambert played attacking football with Norwich and US last season there is reason to believe that once he has the quality of players to do so, he will do it again. That requires investment. And as for anyone who asks...why did we change the tactics this year, making us worse to watch – last season we really were almost relegated. That's an answer for you. Anyway, this current shit style isn't like it was with Mcleish who throughout his career was known for being negative – it doesn't have to stay.

None of this is as simple as you all make out. Take his Norwich team, add two years and decent levels of investment, and look at them – they're relegated. I bet they wouldn't be if Lambert never left. He'd probably have the Spurs job or something like now, and we'd be in administration and the Championship.

[pauliewalnuts]

As for tactics – basically, I think people who go into all that so ardently are armchair managers who think you know more than they do about running a football club in REALITY, and I think you take for granted things such as...the other team, the abilities of the other team compared to ours.

How can anyone argue with a dismissive comment like that?

You're all so blinkered, and I think that comes from being hurt in a weird way.

Or that, for that matter.

And it's rubbish saying

Or that.

"And it's rubbish saying he should have bought a centre back in january" or anything like that, because anyone who says it are guessing about the money available and what was actually attempted.

And in that case, it's equally rubbish of you to suggest we did try or that there wasn't the money - when there was the money to borrow a fat, useless striker.

Oh, and we finished higher this season than last season, so that's progress.

The major problem with this is that we didn't finish higher this season than last. We finished 15th both years.

So it's not progress at all. It's not even progress in terms of points - three fewer than the previous season.

Unless of course you mean progress in the wrong direction.

[Rolta]

Lol, ok. I was expressing my opinion, and there is plenty in my post beyond the minor framing words. I'm sorry to doubt you – you are a tactical genius with experience managing a multi-million pound business of a football club. Ok then. My viewpoint is that I'm not going to lose my head over things when I don't have a clue what happened ("Should have signed a CB" – maybe they tried, maybe there was no money). I don't think signing Holt would have had an effect on the CB situation, by the way, but yes, that's my opinion on the matter. To form my opinion I didn't make up a statement like, "Signing Holt stopped us getting a CB".

For the record books:

Find me a younger Aston Villa team in history.