The Takeover Thread - Recon Group - NOW WITH NEW POLL

[paul_e]

If he isn't that fussed about money how come we haven't spent much in the last year?!

Except the 90m he wrote off in January, obvs.

He didn't write it off. He just decided he didn't owe it to himself after all. And exchanged it for equity in a business he already owned.

He did write it off.

Randy Lerner does not equal the business. Legally they are not the same thing.

If he'd left the debt there, anyone wanting to buy the business would have had to repay the debt, or the club would have had to do so under his ownership eventually. He has effectively chalked it off.

Do we know exactly how much e is in for after taking dividends, salary, interest and management charges? My guess he will make a loss but the net position will not be huge.

How many times does it have to be said that he hasn't taken a single penny in salary or dividends?

Never knew that but he / the trust were taking interest and management charges

The management charges aren't for him, they're for the other directors.

I don't think he's ever taken an interest payment.

[dave.woodhall]

Never knew that but he / the trust were taking interest and management charges

Once, I believe.

I did read a while back someone being fairly concerned with the charge backs to associated entities at that time.

I think that most people accept that Randy was not in this to make money, I would also guess he didn't expect things to turn out as bad as they have financially.

Risso, probably.

[john2710]

And yet, people still think he'll make money out of the club & then sell us down the river at the first opportunity.

[Saunders9]

@RobHarris: Tevfik Arif has no interest in buying Aston Villa I'm told (following reports today)

Who is he?

He works for The Associated Press

[silhillvilla]

This is going to take some time isn't it. Dont think this will be done and dusted ready for the summer window and a seamless entry into next season . Maybe Lerner will eventually take us off the market and plough on .

[Steve R]

If he isn't that fussed about money how come we haven't spent much in the last year?!

Except the 90m he wrote off in January, obvs.

He didn't write it off. He just decided he didn't owe it to himself after all. And exchanged it for equity in a business he already owned.

He did write it off.

Randy Lerner does not equal the business. Legally they are not the same thing.

If he'd left the debt there, anyone wanting to buy the business would have had to repay the debt, or the club would have had to do so under his ownership eventually. He has effectively chalked it off.

I don't believe that he did write the debts off as such. Last January there were reports that there had been a share issue to the amount of 90 mill. My understanding was that this was a conversion of debt into equity. It was not necessarily related to the sale, Abramovich did something similar at Chelsea. It appeared to me as simply a mechanism for negotiating PL FFP rules, reducing debt without making a cash gift to the club.

The differentiation bewteen Lerner and Aston Villa as a legal entity does not make a great deal of difference in this instance. As sole shareholder he can set whatever price he wants, he could, and probably will, try to roll a fair proportion of that debt into the price. Whether he finds takers is a different matter. Whether the price includes debt owed by Aston Villa or equity owned by Lerner doesn't make a great deal of difference to the price that he can get.

Equally whatever sum he raises will go to him as sole shareholder regardless of how many shares he owns.

I am not trying to speak against Lerner, I think he's had a pretty rough - and totally unfair - judgement from folk on here and elsewhere regarding his stewardship of the club. If he were to find renewed enthusiasm for the cause I'd be more than happy.

I have heard a saying that goes 'you are only two bad decisions away from sleeping on a park bench'. Football clubs may well be two sales away from an Oriental hairdresser. The sale of the club is going to be like having a tooth out. It has to happen but I am not looking forward to it.

[pauliewalnuts]

It is still money he's never going to see again, whether it be converted to equity or written off.

He could quite easily hold on to the club and claw back the loans over several years, for example. It's also not the first time he's written off loans, either.

The bloke has spent a fortune on us, money he's not going to see again, by and large. Yes, largely through his bad management, but there you go.

[silhillvilla]

Putting Faulkner in charge was probably his biggest error. That bloke has day to day responsibility for the running of the club, the business . He's made an absolute hash of it all. Lerner can only blame himself for this and if it costs him £200m then so be it for his absolute incompetence.
If he does lose say £200m overall my basic maths tells me it's cost him £110k a day for the privilege of owning Aston villa.

[CyprusVillain]

I am not trying to speak against Lerner, I think he's had a pretty rough - and totally unfair - judgement from folk on here and elsewhere regarding his stewardship of the club. If he were to find renewed enthusiasm for the cause I'd be more than happy.

I have heard a saying that goes 'you are only two bad decisions away from sleeping on a park bench'. Football clubs may well be two sales away from an Oriental hairdresser. The sale of the club is going to be like having a tooth out. It has to happen but I am not looking forward to it.

Good post Steve and close to how I see things. Undoubtedly there are many fair criticisms to be made about Lerner's judgement in terms of appointments and the faith placed in key management personel.

Less convincing are the negtive claims made in terms of investment or financial governance more generally.

Throughout his stewardship the club and its fan base has simply not had to deal with a range of issues which have dogged other clubs. Whether it is the reputational risk associated with the owner or issues realted to where the invested resources have originated from. Rather, we have had a club which frequently been praised by many on here as going about its business in the *proper* way.

The link with Mr Afrif that sufaced yesterday (and subsequently appears to be subsiding somewhat) makes me pause and reflect on how so many problems associated with the Tan's and Yeung's of this world have simply not been on our radar until now.

[Malandro]

It is still money he's never going to see again, whether it be converted to equity or written off.

He could quite easily hold on to the club and claw back the loans over several years, for example. It's also not the first time he's written off loans, either.

The bloke has spent a fortune on us, money he's not going to see again, by and large. Yes, largely through his bad management, but there you go.

I don't think you can deny that he's lost money. I just don't feel any sympathy towards him.

He believed he could buy his way to success (and the financial rewards that follow) Not much difference between Randy and Gillet/Hicks at Liverpool - Randy is just a little less crass.
As soon as the writing was on the wall he effectively pulled the plug.

Whatever he feels his misfortune has been, the fans have had their share of misery.

Does that sound ungrateful? Maybe a little.

[dave.woodhall]

It is still money he's never going to see again, whether it be converted to equity or written off.

He could quite easily hold on to the club and claw back the loans over several years, for example. It's also not the first time he's written off loans, either.

The bloke has spent a fortune on us, money he's not going to see again, by and large. Yes, largely through his bad management, but there you go.

I don't think you can deny that he's lost money. I just don't feel any sympathy towards him.

He believed he could buy his way to success (and the financial rewards that follow) Not much difference between Randy and Gillet/Hicks at Liverpool - Randy is just a little less crass.
As soon as the writing was on the wall he effectively pulled the plug.

Whatever he feels his misfortune has been, the fans have had their share of misery.

Does that sound ungrateful? Maybe a little.

You won't be expecting a new owner to put any money in then?

[Malandro]

It is still money he's never going to see again, whether it be converted to equity or written off.

He could quite easily hold on to the club and claw back the loans over several years, for example. It's also not the first time he's written off loans, either.

The bloke has spent a fortune on us, money he's not going to see again, by and large. Yes, largely through his bad management, but there you go.

I don't think you can deny that he's lost money. I just don't feel any sympathy towards him.

He believed he could buy his way to success (and the financial rewards that follow) Not much difference between Randy and Gillet/Hicks at Liverpool - Randy is just a little less crass.
As soon as the writing was on the wall he effectively pulled the plug.

Whatever he feels his misfortune has been, the fans have had their share of misery.

Does that sound ungrateful? Maybe a little.

You won't be expecting a new owner to put any money in then?

If they want success yes.

[dave.woodhall]

It is still money he's never going to see again, whether it be converted to equity or written off.

He could quite easily hold on to the club and claw back the loans over several years, for example. It's also not the first time he's written off loans, either.

The bloke has spent a fortune on us, money he's not going to see again, by and large. Yes, largely through his bad management, but there you go.

I don't think you can deny that he's lost money. I just don't feel any sympathy towards him.

He believed he could buy his way to success (and the financial rewards that follow) Not much difference between Randy and Gillet/Hicks at Liverpool - Randy is just a little less crass.
As soon as the writing was on the wall he effectively pulled the plug.

Whatever he feels his misfortune has been, the fans have had their share of misery.

Does that sound ungrateful? Maybe a little.

You won't be expecting a new owner to put any money in then?

If they want success yes.

The success that you just accused Randy of trying to buy?

[The Laughing Policeman]

Let's face it Randy did something we all dream of (well I do) owning the club he's a fan of. Yes he made mistakes and got given some bad advice along the way.
The one thing you can't accuse him of is bleeding the club dry or loading the club with hundreds of millions of debt.
And his apparent loss of interest in the club coincided with a fair bit of turmoil in his private life.
I say thank you Mr. Lerner at least you achieved something I can only dream about.
Maybe if he hadn't been a fan first and a business man second things may have worked out differently.

[Malandro]

Dave,

It wasn't an accusation, I'd say its more fact. He invested heavily with the hope of getting us to the top of the english and european game(The General said it himself)
Much like building a new house and finding out from the estate agents its worth less than you have put in. He made a poor investment.

It may be a sad fact, but if you want to compete, you have to spend money. 

Do you want a new owner who doesn't invest?