Transfer Speculation / Gossip

[KevinGage]

If Randy sells it is very likely to be an American who takes us on. Possibly one with good intentions but little knowledge of the sport.

Thats if he can find a seller. Its a dreadful situation we as fans have to face up to.

A new owner being American doesn't necessarily mean it has to be so clueless.

Look at Man City. Mansour almost certainly knows next to nothing about the game, but the thing people frequently miss about them is that they have appointed people from the absolute top drawer of sport and football to run things.

They took over Man City and they stuck in the bloke who ran Nike and then the people who ran Barcelona to run things.

Randy bought us, and his response to needing to get hold of things was to put in someone who used to run call centres for a credit card company.

Bingo.

He wouldn't be the first owner who didn't know the minutiae, or have a deep technical knowledge of the organisation he owned.

But the better owners bring in people who do know those things. 

[tomd2103]

Given that in resigning here, he left his FA position, is it a fair assumption to say he must have been more than a bit pissed off?

I know he has other issues outside football (his son, I mean) and may have reappraised things, but it all seems a bit abrupt.

Ah right, didn't realise that.  Yes I would agree that the added relinquishing of the FA job must have meant there were pretty extreme circumstances involved for him to leave (hopefully not the family situation you mention).     

[old man villa fan]

If Randy sells it is very likely to be an American who takes us on. Possibly one with good intentions but little knowledge of the sport.

Thats if he can find a seller. Its a dreadful situation we as fans have to face up to.

A new owner being American doesn't necessarily mean it has to be so clueless.

Look at Man City. Mansour almost certainly knows next to nothing about the game, but the thing people frequently miss about them is that they have appointed people from the absolute top drawer of sport and football to run things.

They took over Man City and they stuck in the bloke who ran Nike and then the people who ran Barcelona to run things.

Randy bought us, and his response to needing to get hold of things was to put in someone who used to run call centres for a credit card company.

Good point but it is so much easier when they are given a budget and a strategy of 'money no object, get us the PL and CL'

Further down the scale you need to convince top people that you have a realistic strategy and budget to get them to come and work for you.  Where Lerner fell down was not trying to employ the best at Day 1 when he came in when it was clear he had the money and aspiration.

[tomd2103]

If Randy sells it is very likely to be an American who takes us on. Possibly one with good intentions but little knowledge of the sport.

Thats if he can find a seller. Its a dreadful situation we as fans have to face up to.

A new owner being American doesn't necessarily mean it has to be so clueless.

Look at Man City. Mansour almost certainly knows next to nothing about the game, but the thing people frequently miss about them is that they have appointed people from the absolute top drawer of sport and football to run things.

They took over Man City and they stuck in the bloke who ran Nike and then the people who ran Barcelona to run things.

Randy bought us, and his response to needing to get hold of things was to put in someone who used to run call centres for a credit card company.

Good point but it is so much easier when they are given a budget and a strategy of 'money no object, get us the PL and CL'

Further down the scale you need to convince top people that you have a realistic strategy and budget to get them to come and work for you.  Where Lerner fell down was not trying to employ the best at Day 1 when he came in when it was clear he had the money and aspiration.

Not sure how O'Neill would have taken to working with such people. 

[pauliewalnuts]

If Randy sells it is very likely to be an American who takes us on. Possibly one with good intentions but little knowledge of the sport.

Thats if he can find a seller. Its a dreadful situation we as fans have to face up to.

A new owner being American doesn't necessarily mean it has to be so clueless.

Look at Man City. Mansour almost certainly knows next to nothing about the game, but the thing people frequently miss about them is that they have appointed people from the absolute top drawer of sport and football to run things.

They took over Man City and they stuck in the bloke who ran Nike and then the people who ran Barcelona to run things.

Randy bought us, and his response to needing to get hold of things was to put in someone who used to run call centres for a credit card company.

Good point but it is so much easier when they are given a budget and a strategy of 'money no object, get us the PL and CL'

Further down the scale you need to convince top people that you have a realistic strategy and budget to get them to come and work for you.  Where Lerner fell down was not trying to employ the best at Day 1 when he came in when it was clear he had the money and aspiration.

Not sure how O'Neill would have taken to working with such people. 

he wouldn't have, and that was part of the problem (which is what a close friend of one of our CEOs under MON told me).

However, what about when MON was gone?

That was another chance to appoint capable people, and he spurned it.

I take the point about money making it easy at Man City, but they still went ahead and appointed some people with seriously impressive CVs in the sport.

We appointed people with no CVs to speak of, at least not in the game.

[old man villa fan]

If Randy sells it is very likely to be an American who takes us on. Possibly one with good intentions but little knowledge of the sport.

Thats if he can find a seller. Its a dreadful situation we as fans have to face up to.

A new owner being American doesn't necessarily mean it has to be so clueless.

Look at Man City. Mansour almost certainly knows next to nothing about the game, but the thing people frequently miss about them is that they have appointed people from the absolute top drawer of sport and football to run things.

They took over Man City and they stuck in the bloke who ran Nike and then the people who ran Barcelona to run things.

Randy bought us, and his response to needing to get hold of things was to put in someone who used to run call centres for a credit card company.

Good point but it is so much easier when they are given a budget and a strategy of 'money no object, get us the PL and CL'

Further down the scale you need to convince top people that you have a realistic strategy and budget to get them to come and work for you.  Where Lerner fell down was not trying to employ the best at Day 1 when he came in when it was clear he had the money and aspiration.

Not sure how O'Neill would have taken to working with such people. 

he wouldn't have, and that was part of the problem (which is what a close friend of one of our CEOs under MON told me).

However, what about when MON was gone?

That was another chance to appoint capable people, and he spurned it.

I think by that time the horse had bolted and the money was gone to get top people.  We had our one chance at glory and we failed.

For Villa to get back near the top somebody has to come in with vision and a new business model that rips up the current traditional English football club one.  Money alone (unless it is of Man City magnitude) will not get us there.

[pauliewalnuts]

I think by that time the horse had bolted and the money was gone to get top people.  We had our one chance at glory and we failed.

I disagree - the top, top administrators in football still don't earn as much as mediocre footballers do

At that time, we were paying Emile Heskey 65k a week. We were paying players as average as Steve Sidwell 40k a week.

Putting in highly talented administrators would have cost a fraction of that.

Faulkner was on 250k a year (as per the accounts). We could have paid someone who really knew what they were doing 10 times that and that'd still be about a Sidwell's worth of wages.

For four years, the full extent of the people running the club was Martin O'Neill.

He then went, flounced off (for reasons that make me extremely sympathetic to Lerner), and we were left in a situation where Randy had to install his own structure, and that is where it all went tits up.

It wasn't mostly because O'Neill left, it was because Randy totally fucked up almost every appointment he made from then on - which is coincidentally exactly the same criticism Browns fans had of him.

Lest we forget, this is a man who thought appointing Alex McLeish was a good idea.   

O'Neill went and he was forced to do things himself and he totally fucked it up. Yes, he thew money at it for a while, but throwing money at something is the easy bit - if you have money - getting an organisation running as best it can is much harder, and that is where he failed.

Look at the godawful rudderless mess we are now, for example. He's totally fucked it up, I'm afraid.

[Damo70]

First rule is to surround yourself with the right people in every department. I have no argument about appointing MON as the manager but there also needs to be strong people running each department. If they fall out you have to deal with it. We have had people like Steve Stride and Tony Stephens in the past. The manager does the football stuff and the businessmen do the money and organising stuff. There will be crossovers and conflicts but that happens in most working environments. They sort it out amongst themselves or the boss has to step in and sort it. In an ideal world MON would have been able to work with the likes of the two men I have named but just like Clough he preferred to work with 'yes men' in every department. Personally I am a far bigger fan of MON than most on this sit but his way of showing strenth was also his weakness in my opinion.

[old man villa fan]

I think by that time the horse had bolted and the money was gone to get top people.  We had our one chance at glory and we failed.

I disagree - the top, top administrators in football still don't earn as much as mediocre footballers do

At that time, we were paying Emile Heskey 65k a week. We were paying players as average as Steve Sidwell 40k a week.

Putting in highly talented administrators would have cost a fraction of that.

Faulkner was on 250k a year (as per the accounts). We could have paid someone who really knew what they were doing 10 times that and that'd still be about a Sidwell's worth of wages.

For four years, the full extent of the people running the club was Martin O'Neill.

He then went, flounced off (for reasons that make me extremely sympathetic to Lerner), and we were left in a situation where Randy had to install his own structure, and that is where it all went tits up.

It wasn't mostly because O'Neill left, it was because Randy totally fucked up almost every appointment he made from then on - which is coincidentally exactly the same criticism Browns fans had of him.

Lest we forget, this is a man who thought appointing Alex McLeish was a good idea.   

O'Neill went and he was forced to do things himself and he totally fucked it up. Yes, he thew money at it for a while, but throwing money at something is the easy bit - if you have money - getting an organisation running as best it can is much harder, and that is where he failed.

Look at the godawful rudderless mess we are now, for example. He's totally fucked it up, I'm afraid.

I do not disagree with you.  The point I was trying to make was that ambitious people with drive want to be armed with some of the tools and a realistic challenge.

Regarding your point about salary, my second paragraph relates to that.  Football must be one of the few industries that pay the workers (players) more than the people running the club (manager, CEO etc.).  Taking the manager as an example, perhaps that is why there are so few recently retired players going into football management when they can earn as much through media work.  The other view is that players are so mollycoddled these days that they would never have the right frame of mind or have the dedication to go into management.

[Matt Collins]

It's a good point about the industry. Imagine if we'd bought in a top executive chairman or chief exec. I'd rather have done that, than pay the wages of the likes of Beye, Ireland, etc.

[E I Adio]

I do not disagree with you.  The point I was trying to make was that ambitious people with drive want to be armed with some of the tools and a realistic challenge.

Regarding your point about salary, my second paragraph relates to that.  Football must be one of the few industries that pay the workers (players) more than the people running the club (manager, CEO etc.).  Taking the manager as an example, perhaps that is why there are so few recently retired players going into football management when they can earn as much through media work.  The other view is that players are so mollycoddled these days that they would never have the right frame of mind or have the dedication to go into management.

Rumour had it that Siralex always insisted that he was the best paid person at the club. One look at MOTD should convince anyone that very few retired players have the intellectual ability to suceed as managers.

[Ron Manager]

Lambert was,we understood, tactically very savvy, could change things round in the space of five minutes. I would like to know who decided
this was the case as this current manager has not shown anything that suggests he is intelligent in either a football sense or a verbal sense.

We are stuck with him. His job is safe and he knows it.

Doug would have sacked him twice in the time he has been manager.

Doug would have been right to take this action.

[brian green]

I agree completely Ron. My feeling is regarding the state we have fallen into since MON flounced out, big decisions have been made and are still being made on the basis of edicts issued by the owner from a distance. In any other premiership club Lambert would have been gone months ago but we all know his job is safe. Why? Because Lerner has ordered that he will never again pay a manager contract compensation. So he stays. With Doug or any other readily accessible owner things would be discussed and debated at length. We have made so many knee jerk reactive decisions in the past four years that you cannot honestly believe they have been thought through or talked through.
Young and hungry was survival in the premiership on the cheap Part I old and unwanted is survival in the premiership on the cheap Part II.

[Gregorys Boy]

Lambert was,we understood, tactically very savvy, could change things round in the space of five minutes. I would like to know who decided
this was the case as this current manager has not shown anything that suggests he is intelligent in either a football sense or a verbal sense.

We are stuck with him. His job is safe and he knows it.


Doug would have sacked him twice in the time he has been manager.

Doug would have been right to take this action.

There is something to be said for stability though.   I have pretty much come to the same conclusion about Lambert as you, but given the squad he took over and the lack of money he has had, then I think he deserved at least two seasons to rebuild.   Of course the pro-Lambert camp would also argue than without keeping the same manager for two seasons we may already be down, for example if we had panic and sacked him during his first season?  Just saying...

[pauliewalnuts]

There wouldn't be any point sacking Lambert, given the current uncertain situation.

I know he deserved the bullet ages ago, and I too have zero faith in the bloke, but we are such a mess at the moment, sacking him would just create another element of instability.

What sort of manager would come here and work under these circumstances?