Transfer Speculation / Gossip

[SoccerHQ]

As we're seeing currently, selling a premier league club isn't easy nowadays.

He still had a lot of credit in the bank for me around 2010 so no issue with him not selling at the time.

[Clampy]

As we're seeing currently, selling a premier league club isn't easy nowadays.

He still had a lot of credit in the bank for me around 2010 so no issue with him not selling at the time.

Agreed. There was no reason why he should have sold at that time.

[SamTheMouse]

If Villa had been run properly over the last few seasons, Baker would be plying his trade at Shrewsbury.

When you say run properly, you mean you want them to spend loadsamoney.

Seems to be that's what people class as good owners.

Depends how much money you consider to be 'loads'. Given that there are undiscovered Amazon tribes with more effective defenders than Baker, I suspect you could pick up a better centre-half for less than what Randy puts in his butler's Christmas bonus.

[old man villa fan]

I think most people are missing a couple of very big points when talking about 'bomb squads', moving players out on loan, selling players at a loss and current value of players.  The transfer window and the allowable squad size are the main drivers behind these issues.

When you do not have a great deal of money to buy players and pay the wages, you are constantly looking for bargains that could quickly develop.  At the end of a season, the club is looking forward to the next season and trying to bring new players in early.  This will mean that your squad has grown above the permitted number and you then either have players you have to sell, loan out or they end up on the sidelines in a 'bomb squad'.  I should imagine that the coaches only want to have the first team squad training together as trying to use 'bomb squad' players in training is counterproductive due to numbers and potentially being disruptive.

The alternative to the above is to wait until you have cleared out last seasons 'want to get rid of' players and then bring in new but as we can all see, it is difficult to move on average/poor players these days.  The main reason is wages.  Gone are the days when players could slide down the league as the gap between PL wages and Championship or lower is too great.  Sitting and waiting to get rid of players is just not possible with a transfer window and a limited supply of value for money players.

The 'bomb squad' term was blown out of proportion as the media/fans wanted to use the issue to hammer the club/manager by trying to cause division.  There were never enough players for even a 5-a-side squad.  They were left on the sidelines as we had brought in players to replace them and no other club saw them as value for money signings or loan players.

Our problem in gambling on lower cost signings means a high turnover of players when they do not make the grade.  This then creates the impression that the manager does not know what he is doing regarding being able to buy good players.  The way I saw it last summer was that Lambert focused his main money on a new central defender and a replacement for Benteke that could get up to speed during the season, prior to Benteke leaving this summer.  As things worked out with Benteke getting injured, he will not be moving on this summer and so we are back to where we were 12 months ago on this one.  The remainder of the money last summer was spent on low cost value for money signings with the hope that some would come off.  Unfortunately for one reason or another, very few came off and in my mind only Bacuna did.

I am hoping that Lambert has gone about it the opposite way around in that he is waiting on his big money (not much in our case!) signing and that is going to be a quality midfield player.  Rather than numerous low cost relatively unknown signings, he has gone for cheap experience by bringing in a couple and using some that we previously tried to get rid of.  In addition to this, he is looking at some of the young players that he has seen come through the ranks as opposed to those already at first team level when he came into the job. 

The first main point that you haven't mentioned about the bomb squad though is that they weren't wanted simply because they were being paid too much (courtesy of contracts that the club gave to them). The second that you don't mention is that are now integrated back into the first team squad having been on the sidelines or at other clubs for a year. I'm utterly baffled that some people see this as common practice for a football club and not the colossal cluster-fuck that it looks like to me.

I know it was a long post but it wasn't meant to be a detailed analysis of the point I was trying to get over.  What I was trying to say was that at the end of the season the manager has a transfer window to build for the following season.  The limit on squad size means that to try and improve the manager has to get rid of some players to be able to bring in new.  Unless you continually pump money in, you try and sell players that can generate some money.

When Lambert came to Villa he decided that he wanted to change the style at right back and Hutton could potentially raise some money to fund this so went out and bought Lowton.  At the time he did not think that he would be unable to sell Hutton.  Like many of us, he thought he could get some money in and take one of the high earners off the books.  Move on 12 months and he thought Bent was surplus to requirements as Benteke had developed and adapted to the PL quickly.  Again, he thought that he would be able to get money for him and move a high wage earner off the books.  He was able to offload Ireland eventually.

What Lambert didn't expect is that he would be left with these two players as nobody else wanted them based on their wages.  It was not Lambert's fault that they had highly paid contracts.  He tried to cut the losses by loaning them out.  With Lerner looking to sell and with not much money for transfers, Lambert has decided to try and use them and get some value from them.  Perhaps this is why Keane has been brought in, to be the bad cop compared with Lambert's nice cop approach.

Most clubs in our position i.e. bottom half of the division, have a summer clear out and bring in new players to try and improve or even standstill.  Some are majorly critical of Villa's transfer policy but it happens at other clubs as well.  Look at Stoke and Crouch who they bought for £10m, has moved into the final year of his £40k a week contract and are rumoured to only want £1m for him.

Villa are currently in a holding pattern until somebody buys us and the manager is trying to shuffle the cards and get the best out of very limited resources.

I know that you were trying to make your point again but your two points were covered, I feel, by what I said if you had read a bit more deeply into my comments.

[claret and blue blood]

Which ever way you shuffle the pack we are light in at least three positions,in order of priority :- DFM, right back and a striker until Benteke and Kozak are fit (it could be too late by the time they are fit).
Gabby , Weimann and Bent should be on the bench at best.

[old man villa fan]

Which ever way you shuffle the pack we are light in at least three positions,in order of priority :- DFM, right back and a striker until Benteke and Kozak are fit (it could be too late by the time they are fit).
Gabby , Weimann and Bent should be on the bench at best.

I agree in that we need to buy and have said before that Lambert should be given a budget based on our anticipated income versus expenditure for the season.  Perhaps I am old fashioned, some say DFM, some say No. 10 but I believe we need somebody that is strong, dominant and can drive through the midfield i.e. somebody that make up for shortcomings in the other two midfield positions mentioned.

[Can Gana Be Bettered!?!?]

No. If we hasn't over spent we wouldn't be adopting the current strategy. Either way baker wouldn't be anywhere near the first team

He spent to allow MON the chance to qualify for Champions League, but it didn't quite work out. Can't blame him for giving someone we all thought could do it for us the money to do as he felt right. He places his trust in MON, but, ultimately, it didn't work out.

Yes, and Lerner should've sold-up in 2010 - at least the squad was half-decent then. But no, he's sold-off the better players and bought a load of tat generally and set us back years - irresponsible ownership from him. He's lowered expectations to such an extent that many fans think that mid-table is now a success.

So he should've gone as soon as he stopped spending loads of money?

[SamTheMouse]

Nobody's disputing the amount of money that Randy has pumped into the club. The problem is rather the wasteful way that money has been spent, and the way the assets purchased with it have been largely squandered.

[pauliewalnuts]

Nobody's disputing the amount of money that Randy has pumped into the club. The problem is rather the wasteful way that money has been spent, and the way the assets purchased with it have been largely squandered.

I couldn't agree more.

I can't speak for anyone else but I'd feel a lot more affinity and respect for Randy if his lack of interest these days was not so stark.

I also want us to have a chairman who is prepared to, if not live and breathe the club, really care for it, feel something for it, and make us feel like we matter to him. With Randy, it was that way for four years, and then it stopped pretty much overnight.

If you look back, at pretty much exactly the same time General Krulak disappeared from here, they started retreating. Stopped talking about ambition. Started talking about fiscal prudence - I remember reading the minutes of an SCG meeting at that time and it really struck me that in their answer to a question about a museum or a trophy room (which had always been something they'd sounded enthusiastic about), they said that anything like that would have to be considered on the financial merits, ie whether it could be self supporting.

I thought that was quite a stark indicator of how their involvement had changed.

I don't blame Randy for wanting out, if he doesn't have the interest any more, then it is best he moves on, but I have to say, I feel quite bitter about the drifting, organisational mess we've turned into now he's taken his eyes off the road.

It's not really the financial clamp down that I find most depressing (and god knows, that has been bad enough), it has been the way that, having spent four years telling us they were going to be "here through thick and thin", pretty much the very first time thick turned to thin, they were out of here as quick as they could.

I respect Randy for various things, but I genuinely do think they were pretty shabby about their retreat, and it does not reflect on them very well at all.

If they sold us tomorrow, the thing they'd be most remembered for would be the shambling mess and lack of interest of the last few years.

I hope our new owners have decent money behind them - which football supporter wouldn't prefer that - but I really, really hope they know what they're doing, and are prepared to stick with the club, two things which I don't think you can say about Randy and co.

Sad.

[Ron Manager]

If Randy sells it is very likely to be an American who takes us on. Possibly one with good intentions but little knowledge of the sport.

Thats if he can find a seller. Its a dreadful situation we as fans have to face up to.

[ktvillan]

Which ever way you shuffle the pack we are light in at least three positions,in order of priority :- DFM, right back and a striker until Benteke and Kozak are fit (it could be too late by the time they are fit).
Gabby , Weimann and Bent should be on the bench at best.

It's looking increasingly as if Lambert's task  is not so much shuffling a pack as rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.   

[pauliewalnuts]

If Randy sells it is very likely to be an American who takes us on. Possibly one with good intentions but little knowledge of the sport.

Thats if he can find a seller. Its a dreadful situation we as fans have to face up to.

A new owner being American doesn't necessarily mean it has to be so clueless.

Look at Man City. Mansour almost certainly knows next to nothing about the game, but the thing people frequently miss about them is that they have appointed people from the absolute top drawer of sport and football to run things.

They took over Man City and they stuck in the bloke who ran Nike and then the people who ran Barcelona to run things.

Randy bought us, and his response to needing to get hold of things was to put in someone who used to run call centres for a credit card company.

[tomd2103]

If Randy sells it is very likely to be an American who takes us on. Possibly one with good intentions but little knowledge of the sport.

Thats if he can find a seller. Its a dreadful situation we as fans have to face up to.

A new owner being American doesn't necessarily mean it has to be so clueless.

Look at Man City. Mansour almost certainly knows next to nothing about the game, but the thing people frequently miss about them is that they have appointed people from the absolute top drawer of sport and football to run things.

They took over Man City and they stuck in the bloke who ran Nike and then the people who ran Barcelona to run things.

Randy bought us, and his response to needing to get hold of things was to put in someone who used to run call centres for a credit card company.

The same someone who has gone on to get a pretty good job at the FA, which tells you all you need to know about that organisation as well. 

[dave.woodhall]

If Randy sells it is very likely to be an American who takes us on. Possibly one with good intentions but little knowledge of the sport.

Thats if he can find a seller. Its a dreadful situation we as fans have to face up to.

A new owner being American doesn't necessarily mean it has to be so clueless.

Look at Man City. Mansour almost certainly knows next to nothing about the game, but the thing people frequently miss about them is that they have appointed people from the absolute top drawer of sport and football to run things.

They took over Man City and they stuck in the bloke who ran Nike and then the people who ran Barcelona to run things.

Randy bought us, and his response to needing to get hold of things was to put in someone who used to run call centres for a credit card company.

The same someone who has gone on to get a pretty good job at the FA, which tells you all you need to know about that organisation as well. 

He hasn't got a job with them.

[pauliewalnuts]

Given that in resigning here, he left his FA position, is it a fair assumption to say he must have been more than a bit pissed off?

I know he has other issues outside football (his son, I mean) and may have reappraised things, but it all seems a bit abrupt.