Transfer Speculation / Gossip

[Dave]

There will be 8/9 defenders listed in the 25. I assume those are Hutton, Baker, Clark, Okore, Vlaar, Senderos, Donacien, Bennett and Stevens.

Donacien won't be listed in the 25 will he?

Isn't he under 21 and therefore not required to be listed...?

Exactly.

[RussellC]

I think most people are missing a couple of very big points when talking about 'bomb squads', moving players out on loan, selling players at a loss and current value of players.  The transfer window and the allowable squad size are the main drivers behind these issues.

When you do not have a great deal of money to buy players and pay the wages, you are constantly looking for bargains that could quickly develop.  At the end of a season, the club is looking forward to the next season and trying to bring new players in early.  This will mean that your squad has grown above the permitted number and you then either have players you have to sell, loan out or they end up on the sidelines in a 'bomb squad'.  I should imagine that the coaches only want to have the first team squad training together as trying to use 'bomb squad' players in training is counterproductive due to numbers and potentially being disruptive.

The alternative to the above is to wait until you have cleared out last seasons 'want to get rid of' players and then bring in new but as we can all see, it is difficult to move on average/poor players these days.  The main reason is wages.  Gone are the days when players could slide down the league as the gap between PL wages and Championship or lower is too great.  Sitting and waiting to get rid of players is just not possible with a transfer window and a limited supply of value for money players.

The 'bomb squad' term was blown out of proportion as the media/fans wanted to use the issue to hammer the club/manager by trying to cause division.  There were never enough players for even a 5-a-side squad.  They were left on the sidelines as we had brought in players to replace them and no other club saw them as value for money signings or loan players.

Our problem in gambling on lower cost signings means a high turnover of players when they do not make the grade.  This then creates the impression that the manager does not know what he is doing regarding being able to buy good players.  The way I saw it last summer was that Lambert focused his main money on a new central defender and a replacement for Benteke that could get up to speed during the season, prior to Benteke leaving this summer.  As things worked out with Benteke getting injured, he will not be moving on this summer and so we are back to where we were 12 months ago on this one.  The remainder of the money last summer was spent on low cost value for money signings with the hope that some would come off.  Unfortunately for one reason or another, very few came off and in my mind only Bacuna did.

I am hoping that Lambert has gone about it the opposite way around in that he is waiting on his big money (not much in our case!) signing and that is going to be a quality midfield player.  Rather than numerous low cost relatively unknown signings, he has gone for cheap experience by bringing in a couple and using some that we previously tried to get rid of.  In addition to this, he is looking at some of the young players that he has seen come through the ranks as opposed to those already at first team level when he came into the job. 

The first main point that you haven't mentioned about the bomb squad though is that they weren't wanted simply because they were being paid too much (courtesy of contracts that the club gave to them). The second that you don't mention is that are now integrated back into the first team squad having been on the sidelines or at other clubs for a year. I'm utterly baffled that some people see this as common practice for a football club and not the colossal cluster-fuck that it looks like to me.

[tomd2103]

As it stands, we have 5 centre backs. We're not going to have 5 centre backs listed in a 25 man squad so who's going to drop out ?. With Lambert's seemingly bizarre faith in Baker last season i'm starting to think if Vlaar does go we'll plough on with the other four and not replace him

#shudder

I'm sure you're right, Herd and Lowton can both play there and Donacien has just signed a new contract.  Senderos was Vlaar's replacement before he left, bit like Sidwell was Barry's and Kozak Benteke's.  Remember in Lambo's 1st season he ran with just Baker, Clark and Herd with Vlaar out injured and last year just Vlaar, Baker and Clark with Herd and Okore unavailable, so to have four fit front line centre halves in Senderos, Okore, Clark and Baker plus Lowton, Herd and Donacien, I think he'll prioritise signings elsewhere.

And look how well that went.  It's pretty telling that all three are still in the first team squad at the club. 

[Mister E]

As it stands, we have 5 centre backs. We're not going to have 5 centre backs listed in a 25 man squad so who's going to drop out ?. With Lambert's seemingly bizarre faith in Baker last season i'm starting to think if Vlaar does go we'll plough on with the other four and not replace him

#shudder

I'm sure you're right, Herd and Lowton can both play there and Donacien has just signed a new contract.  Senderos was Vlaar's replacement before he left, bit like Sidwell was Barry's and Kozak Benteke's.  Remember in Lambo's 1st season he ran with just Baker, Clark and Herd with Vlaar out injured and last year just Vlaar, Baker and Clark with Herd and Okore unavailable, so to have four fit front line centre halves in Senderos, Okore, Clark and Baker plus Lowton, Herd and Donacien, I think he'll prioritise signings elsewhere.

The fact that Baker is still considered to be a candidate tells you everything you need to know about our defensive prospects.
When all are fit, we have to go back three (Okore, Vlaar and Seneros). The problem is that they will not all stay fit.

[SamTheMouse]

If Villa had been run properly over the last few seasons, Baker would be plying his trade at Shrewsbury.

[richard moore]

If Villa had been run properly over the last few seasons, Baker would be plying his trade at Shrewsbury.

And what have Shrewsbury ever done to you to start throwing insults like that around? ;-)

[Matt Collins]

Don't we have this debate about who's going to be in the twenty five every pre season with speculation about who will be left out, only for it to be utterly irrelevant as we've got so many players who count as home grown?

[olaftab]

Ahaa Leighton Phillips one of my favourites. Elegant footballing class  oozed from that man.

Do you remember a home match against Spurs where, I think it was Terry Naylor fouled Phillips in midfield ending up with Naylor on the floor with Phillips standing over him?  What happened next was Phillips looked up to see where the ref was, saw he wasn't looking then grabbed Naylor by the shirt front lifting him up from the ground then nutting him!  Brilliant, as he ran back towards the Holte to rapturous cheers.

No I don't remember the actual incident Dave but it's one of the many things that made him fans favourite.  Other than number 9 and 1 he could play in almost every position.

[Can Gana Be Bettered!?!?]

If Villa had been run properly over the last few seasons, Baker would be plying his trade at Shrewsbury.

When you say run properly, you mean you want them to spend loadsamoney.

Seems to be that's what people class as good owners.

[Matt Collins]

No. If we hasn't over spent we wouldn't be adopting the current strategy. Either way baker wouldn't be anywhere near the first team

[Can Gana Be Bettered!?!?]

No. If we hasn't over spent we wouldn't be adopting the current strategy. Either way baker wouldn't be anywhere near the first team

He spent to allow MON the chance to qualify for Champions League, but it didn't quite work out. Can't blame him for giving someone we all thought could do it for us the money to do as he felt right. He places his trust in MON, but, ultimately, it didn't work out.

[Jaffa]

If Villa had been run properly over the last few seasons, Baker would be plying his trade at Shrewsbury.

He'd be on the subs bench at best if he was.... Connor Goldson is a much better CB than our Baker.

[Villafirst]

No. If we hasn't over spent we wouldn't be adopting the current strategy. Either way baker wouldn't be anywhere near the first team

He spent to allow MON the chance to qualify for Champions League, but it didn't quite work out. Can't blame him for giving someone we all thought could do it for us the money to do as he felt right. He places his trust in MON, but, ultimately, it didn't work out.

Yes, and Lerner should've sold-up in 2010 - at least the squad was half-decent then. But no, he's sold-off the better players and bought a load of tat generally and set us back years - irresponsible ownership from him. He's lowered expectations to such an extent that many fans think that mid-table is now a success.

[saunders_heroes]

No. If we hasn't over spent we wouldn't be adopting the current strategy. Either way baker wouldn't be anywhere near the first team

He spent to allow MON the chance to qualify for Champions League, but it didn't quite work out. Can't blame him for giving someone we all thought could do it for us the money to do as he felt right. He places his trust in MON, but, ultimately, it didn't work out.

Yes, and Lerner should've sold-up in 2010 - at least the squad was half-decent then. But no, he's sold-off the better players and bought a load of tat generally and set us back years - irresponsible ownership from him. He's lowered expectations to such an extent that many fans think that mid-table is now a success.

Spot on.

[Clark W Griswold]

I don't that was ever going to happen though at that point, he had only been here four years. He put the money up to sign Bent and Makoun the following Jan, which was an effort to improve us. I reckon he would have got majorly disheartened the summer 11 when all the best players wanted to go and some of the other senior pros acted like assholes in the months after, Ireland, Dunne, Collins etc. And also summer 11 was the whole McLeish thing, it strikes me that he tried getting others in first and failed, wanted someone in well before the start of the season and McLeish was 'there'. Big mistake, but there you go. I think that period tought him how tough it can be in modern English football. I think he's been pondering it ever since and has finally made the decision, fortunately.