The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[Jon Crofts]

FWIW I don't think they will sack him, either. I think there's pretty much no chance of that happening.

Disagree.

Whether RL 'cares' or not is a different thing.   The amount of time he has spent away from the club certainly gives credence to the notion that he has lost interest.

I honestly think they believe in Lambert, whereas they didn't in McLeish, hence the difference.

I genuinely think that when they go on about young and hungry etc etc, they actually believe they're doing something innovative. I also believe they think that if they just want something to happen enough, then it will happen. They're really that naive.

I don't think, for example, that it has much occurred to them that there are actually plenty of teams that have tried to bob along cheaply, and they almost always go down eventually.

Really, I think they are that delusional, and that clueless. I think they are good intentioned, I think Randy is a good person who wants the best for the club, but I think they are utterly clueless in what they are doing.

And when I think back to how much I used to support Lerner and co, how pro-them I was on here, and look at the way my trust and confidence in them has totally collapsed, I find it more than a bit depressing.

What also terrifies me, is what decent Manager is going to want to come here working under the current board?

From the outside looking in, surely it looks like we've taken a young up and coming guy from Norwich, and ruined him.

I get what you mean. Hopefully it won't come to that, and his ex club up north will spare us all a continuation of this mess. 

I do actually quite like the bloke, I don't think he's a bullshitter or blagger, like some of the conmen we have appointed. 

A few years up there and a stint in Europe would help to rebuild his reputation. He is young enough to still turn it around.   

But the Villa job looks too big for him at present, and whilst many of us were happy to go the young, up and coming manager route, there was always a danger this would occur.  It was a risk worth taking, just a shame it hasn't worked out.

Our next manager probably won't be someone who has shown a steady, straight line of progression in their career to date.  But when you see the likes of Laudrup, Koeman and Rijkaard currently out of work, it doesn't mean we have to opt for some complete shithouse at the other end of the scale either.

His former club up north scenario is the one I'm clinging to, but that's only going to work if Lennon comes south but to who?  Norwich?  He won't go there if they're in the Championship. 

[Mister E]

One of our biggest problems is that although being a Top 6 Net Spender over the last 5 years, we haven't been able to sell many for any decent value and reinvest the money. I can't find a site that gives the figures with seperate columns for Bought and Sold but I'd imagine our Sold total is near peanuts, we've basically had to give players away or they run down their contracts.
...

Well, apart from Barry, Milner, Young and Downing ...

[ciggiesnbeer]

While it is fine that Faulkner publicly steps in to try and rally the fans such statements are toothless without an indication he and Lerner are going to do something about it.

The phrase "And we fully intend to strongly invest in this team during the next transfer window to take us back to where this club need to be."

Or some such.

[sirlordbaltimore]

One of our biggest problems is that although being a Top 6 Net Spender over the last 5 years, we haven't been able to sell many for any decent value and reinvest the money. I can't find a site that gives the figures with seperate columns for Bought and Sold but I'd imagine our Sold total is near peanuts, we've basically had to give players away or they run down their contracts.
...

Well, apart from Barry, Milner, Young and Downing ...

Thats got to be 65m right there. Considering O'Neill's alleged net spend was 19m per season ...

[Monty]

One of our biggest problems is that although being a Top 6 Net Spender over the last 5 years, we haven't been able to sell many for any decent value and reinvest the money. I can't find a site that gives the figures with seperate columns for Bought and Sold but I'd imagine our Sold total is near peanuts, we've basically had to give players away or they run down their contracts.
...

Well, apart from Barry, Milner, Young and Downing ...

Thats got to be 65m right there. Considering O'Neill's alleged net spend was 19m per season ...

In transfer fees though - the real kicker was the wages, which were huge and long-term for absolutely unsaleable players - Heskey, Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Sidwell, Habib Beye (Habib Beye!)...it was really extraordinary.

[saunders_heroes]

One of our biggest problems is that although being a Top 6 Net Spender over the last 5 years, we haven't been able to sell many for any decent value and reinvest the money. I can't find a site that gives the figures with seperate columns for Bought and Sold but I'd imagine our Sold total is near peanuts, we've basically had to give players away or they run down their contracts.
...

Well, apart from Barry, Milner, Young and Downing ...

We received an absolute fortune for those players. How on earth can anyone forget about that?

[sirlordbaltimore]

In transfer fees though - the real kicker was the wages, which were huge and long-term for absolutely unsaleable players - Heskey, Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Sidwell, Habib Beye (Habib Beye!)...it was really extraordinary.

Very true, we've not done ourselves any favours with getting fees for some players though. Bombing them out to train with kids and making it plain to everyone we desperately want em off the books is not a good way to get fees for players

More terrible management

[Mister E]

One of our biggest problems is that although being a Top 6 Net Spender over the last 5 years, we haven't been able to sell many for any decent value and reinvest the money. I can't find a site that gives the figures with seperate columns for Bought and Sold but I'd imagine our Sold total is near peanuts, we've basically had to give players away or they run down their contracts.
...

Well, apart from Barry, Milner, Young and Downing ...

Thats got to be 65m right there. Considering O'Neill's alleged net spend was 19m per season ...

In transfer fees though - the real kicker was the wages, which were huge and long-term for absolutely unsaleable players - Heskey, Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Sidwell, Habib Beye (Habib Beye!)...it was really extraordinary.

Yes, the players that we couldn't shift were on the big wages and long contracts. A perfect storm. These toxic assets not only hobbled our acquisition strategy, it also created a Chairman mindset that may do permanent damage to the club.

[Monty]

Indeed, the quantities of money we were haemorrhaging in the direction of overrated, limited, fairly bucolic, bread-and-meat British footballers was pretty amazing. We recouped a lot in transfer fees for a few of MON's signings (including Barry, who was leaving for less than half the amount before MON talked him round in 2006), but I'd say we lost money on Milner by receiving about £8m and the catastrophic Ireland in return, and we certainly lost money on all of the others as well. His weren't the only huge financial blunders - Darren Bent is probably the most spectacular deficit of recent years - but the sheer bulk of MON's medium-sized disasters amount to such a malign legacy.

[saunders_heroes]

Indeed, the quantities of money we were haemorrhaging in the direction of overrated, limited, fairly bucolic, bread-and-meat British footballers was pretty amazing. We recouped a lot in transfer fees for a few of MON's signings (including Barry, who was leaving for less than half the amount before MON talked him round in 2006), but I'd say we lost money on Milner by receiving about £8m and the catastrophic Ireland in return, and we certainly lost money on all of the others as well. His weren't the only huge financial blunders - Darren Bent is probably the most spectacular deficit of recent years - but the sheer bulk of MON's medium-sized disasters amount to such a malign legacy.

The Bent situation is quite bizarre. He was in good goal scoring form for Villa till he was injured in February a couple of seasons ago but since then he's barely had a look in and I can only think it's to do with his mega wages. Our 'bomb squad' policy is just madness. Banish them all to either training with the kids, thrown out on loan or just ignored. Meanwhile we pay their wages and watch their sell on value decrease by the minute. Lerner has lost the bloody plot.

[Monty]

In the first instance Bent lost his place to Benteke because Benteke is better individually and with the team, whereas Bent scored the odd goal at the expense of the team scoring more, and they couldn't play together. However, ditching Bent entirely all the way to the Bomb Squad, rather than retaining him at least in the squad as an option, really is strange.

[supertom]

One of our biggest problems is that although being a Top 6 Net Spender over the last 5 years, we haven't been able to sell many for any decent value and reinvest the money. I can't find a site that gives the figures with seperate columns for Bought and Sold but I'd imagine our Sold total is near peanuts, we've basically had to give players away or they run down their contracts.
...

Well, apart from Barry, Milner, Young and Downing ...

We received an absolute fortune for those players. How on earth can anyone forget about that?

Downing and Young were a long time ago now though. They also came shortly after we'd spent a great deal in the January window to stay up. Three years is a long time in football and a long time to not be earning anything in transfer outgoings. The players we have sold for significant amounts were pretty much what kept the club going, because almost every other O Neill signing has been all but a massive write off.

Who can we sell now? Benteke is the only major asset and he's crocked, so won't be sold in the summer. The next best is Delph who wouldn't actually fetch much more than the excessive amount we paid for him.

[supertom]

In the first instance Bent lost his place to Benteke because Benteke is better individually and with the team, whereas Bent scored the odd goal at the expense of the team scoring more, and they couldn't play together. However, ditching Bent entirely all the way to the Bomb Squad, rather than retaining him at least in the squad as an option, really is strange.

I think he could have been used more as an impact sub after he'd recovered from injury. Indeed this season too perhaps. If he'd have netted even 2-3 more goals last season, some fool might have offered us 5 million. That's better than the chuff all we'll get for him now.

[ciggiesnbeer]

Indeed, the quantities of money we were haemorrhaging in the direction of overrated, limited, fairly bucolic, bread-and-meat British footballers was pretty amazing. We recouped a lot in transfer fees for a few of MON's signings (including Barry, who was leaving for less than half the amount before MON talked him round in 2006), but I'd say we lost money on Milner by receiving about £8m and the catastrophic Ireland in return, and we certainly lost money on all of the others as well. His weren't the only huge financial blunders - Darren Bent is probably the most spectacular deficit of recent years - but the sheer bulk of MON's medium-sized disasters amount to such a malign legacy.

The Bent situation is quite bizarre. He was in good goal scoring form for Villa till he was injured in February a couple of seasons ago but since then he's barely had a look in and I can only think it's to do with his mega wages. Our 'bomb squad' policy is just madness. Banish them all to either training with the kids, thrown out on loan or just ignored. Meanwhile we pay their wages and watch their sell on value decrease by the minute. Lerner has lost the bloody plot.

Agreed. It also seems rather petty minded. I do not think for a moment that Hutton or Given or Bent were huge negative influences. Sure bench em or drop em, but to ice them out just seems to be reducing their sell on value and very petty.

[saunders_heroes]

Indeed, the quantities of money we were haemorrhaging in the direction of overrated, limited, fairly bucolic, bread-and-meat British footballers was pretty amazing. We recouped a lot in transfer fees for a few of MON's signings (including Barry, who was leaving for less than half the amount before MON talked him round in 2006), but I'd say we lost money on Milner by receiving about £8m and the catastrophic Ireland in return, and we certainly lost money on all of the others as well. His weren't the only huge financial blunders - Darren Bent is probably the most spectacular deficit of recent years - but the sheer bulk of MON's medium-sized disasters amount to such a malign legacy.

The Bent situation is quite bizarre. He was in good goal scoring form for Villa till he was injured in February a couple of seasons ago but since then he's barely had a look in and I can only think it's to do with his mega wages. Our 'bomb squad' policy is just madness. Banish them all to either training with the kids, thrown out on loan or just ignored. Meanwhile we pay their wages and watch their sell on value decrease by the minute. Lerner has lost the bloody plot.

Agreed. It also seems rather petty minded. I do not think for a moment that Hutton or Given or Bent were huge negative influences. Sure bench em or drop em, but to ice them out just seems to be reducing their sell on value and very petty.

Lambert is on record saying that the only reason Hutton is not in contention is because of his high wages. It doesn't take a genius to work out it's the reason why all the other 'bomb squad' players are put on their ear.
This low wage policy could cost us our Premier status. It's disgraceful.