The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[dave.woodhall]

Said it before, say it again:
No loans to clubs at the same level or higher.
Players can't be loaned out in the same window or to the club they were bought from.
Loans end at the start of the next transfer window.
A player can't go to the same club more than once.

While all sensible steps, it doesn't really stop the richest club stockpiling the best players and then paying them to sit on their arses.

But it does stop them from signing someone like Lukaku and keeping him at Premier League level until they need him.

[aj2k77]

It wouldn't hinder the development of younger players because if they weren't getting a chance they'd join another club. Take Lukaku as an example, if he wasn't in Chelsea's Premier League squad he'd have left 2 years ago. The younger talented players would end up at the mid to lower premier league clubs, except for the exceptional ones, and get a chance of developing through proper game time and having actual team responsibilities, rather than playing 15 minutes in cup games for the big clubs and earning a massive wedge to keep them happy.

But Chelsea could afford to keep Lukaku for those 2 years, play him in reserve, friendlies and youth games, plus train with the senior squad.  His forcing a move would mean a pay cut, so would he do that?

I'm not saying yours isn't a good idea, just that the greed of the modern footballer has to be taken into account.

And then once he is no longer under 21 they would be forced to either add him to the Premier squad of 22 or sell him. I can't see too many players willing to play absolutely zero competitive football for 2/3 years on the chance that they would be added to a squad at the end of it. The bigger clubs would always buy proven players first unless exceptional circumstances. They would be too scared of losing the Chumps League bonanza.

[Concrete John]

Up until  know the Lukaku's of this world haven't had to make the choice of the big money or regular 1st team football, thanks to the loan system.  If you take that away and make them have to choose.......?  The cynic in me just says we may not like the answer. 

[pauliewalnuts]

Up until  know the Lukaku's of this world haven't had to make the choice of the big money or regular 1st team football, thanks to the loan system.  If you take that away and make them have to choose.......?  The cynic in me just says we may not like the answer. 

It wouldn't just be a tweaking of the choices, though.

There's an enormous difference between regular football elsewhere or some football for, say, Chelsea versus no competitive football whatsoever. There will always be the likes of Winston Bogarde, happy to do absolutely nothing for the money, that's inescapable, but I doubt the likes of Lukaku would be up for it.

They'd effectively be signing for a club to not play football at all.

[john e]

ive always been behind Lambert so far, but if you asked me what his style of play is I couldn't tell you, I haven't a clue,
 whats worse is I don't know if he has

I thought I did, when he first came he had a clearly defined method of play, which was pass and move, possession of the ball being a priority, but results didn't go his way especially in the first half of his first season

this season has been a bit of everything, people who say he only plays hoof ball don't watch every game,and maybe only see what they want to
 Liverpool first half was as good as anything you could expect and it wasn't hoof ball, and at other times we have played some really good stuff
unfortunately we have also played some crap as well, wellying the ball up the field, over relying on the breakaway

its been a big disappointment overall, the football has not been great, yet we know it can be,
 I don't think there is another team in the bottom half of the league that could have played Liverpool of the park at Anfield the way we did,
 yet then we put in performances like Stoke which was diabolical

I don't know what hes trying to do anymore, and when he signed Holte in Jan it I was even more confused, the young and hungry policy was dead in the water

I still would keep with him next season and give him the chance to define his vision, but I'm not sure he can

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Not much to argue with there, John apart from the crap far outweighing the great stuff.

I'd imagine that most that want him to stay would probably agree with your last line. It's like nobody really believes in him but can't be arsed to change manager again.

[IAmTheOneIanOlney]

I wonder if the backroom staff are just not clicking with the players. The day in, day out stuff they practise in training surely can't be what is put into action on (most) match days. Lambert's responsibility overall but certainly wouldn't help if it was the case.

[Concrete John]

ive always been behind Lambert so far, but if you asked me what his style of play is I couldn't tell you, I haven't a clue,
 whats worse is I don't know if he has

I thought I did, when he first came he had a clearly defined method of play, which was pass and move, possession of the ball being a priority, but results didn't go his way especially in the first half of his first season

this season has been a bit of everything, people who say he only plays hoof ball don't watch every game,and maybe only see what they want to
 Liverpool first half was as good as anything you could expect and it wasn't hoof ball, and at other times we have played some really good stuff
unfortunately we have also played some crap as well, wellying the ball up the field, over relying on the breakaway

its been a big disappointment overall, the football has not been great, yet we know it can be,
 I don't think there is another team in the bottom half of the league that could have played Liverpool of the park at Anfield the way we did,
 yet then we put in performances like Stoke which was diabolical

I don't know what hes trying to do anymore, and when he signed Holte in Jan it I was even more confused, the young and hungry policy was dead in the water

I still would keep with him next season and give him the chance to define his vision, but I'm not sure he can

What I think he's trying to create is a side that has more than 1 string to their bow. 

I know many on here are football purests that think the game should only be played in 1 particular way, but unless you're Barcelona you can't do that ALL the time.  When he came from Norwich one thing that was commented on was his ability to change things and vary formations and tactics.  I think what we're seeing is him trying to do that here, with it being hit and miss.   

Our default stance should be quick passing on the deck and pressurising the opposition high up the pitch, but we lack the creativity and movement to make that work consistently.  There have been too many long balls to Benteke this season, but I do think that with a striker like him in our side you need to be able to utilise that as an option.  SAF always did this and it worked OK for him, as having only one way to play leaves you too easy to figure out.  See Villa at home under MON.

He's not got it right yet and there's plenty of work to be done, but that's at least what I think he's going for.       

[passitsideways]

What I think he's trying to create is a side that has more than 1 string to their bow. 

I know many on here are football purests that think the game should only be played in 1 particular way, but unless you're Barcelona you can't do that ALL the time.  When he came from Norwich one thing that was commented on was his ability to change things and vary formations and tactics.  I think what we're seeing is him trying to do that here, with it being hit and miss.   

Our default stance should be quick passing on the deck and pressurising the opposition high up the pitch, but we lack the creativity and movement to make that work consistently.  There have been too many long balls to Benteke this season, but I do think that with a striker like him in our side you need to be able to utilise that as an option.  SAF always did this and it worked OK for him, as having only one way to play leaves you too easy to figure out.  See Villa at home under MON.

He's not got it right yet and there's plenty of work to be done, but that's at least what I think he's going for.     

I don't think this is a bad theory for explaining what has happened, but I don't think it explains how he keeps playing the same players every match, at least until very recently. Unless we've been forced into something else by injury, it's always been KEA/Delph/Westwood in a compact three-man midfield, and Gabby and Andi playing off Benteke. Why didn't he try the formation vs United last week at some point earlier in the season? It's not like he would have been unjustified in dropping Gabby and/or Andi, and it's not like the results warranted continually sticking to pretty much the same general gameplan.

[Concrete John]

The 4-3-3 is what's worked best for us under him, but at times this season he's played with a midfield diamond, used wingbacks and even the odd 4-4-2.

[not3bad]

when he signed Holte in Jan it I was even more confused, the young and hungry policy was dead in the water

Kozak was out for the season and Holt was a stop gap until May.

[bobdylan]

The 4-3-3 is what's worked best for us under him, but at times this season he's played with a midfield diamond, used wingbacks and even the odd 4-4-2.

433 was becoming predictable though and the change to the diamond was very effective in some games, especially 1st half at Anfield.  Had Kozak and N'Zogbia been fit I think KEA, Gabby and Andi would have been rotated more, but without them only Albrighton is worthy of being in the mix for a shirt as Sylla, Holt, Helenius, Bowery, Gardner, Tonev, the kids etc aren't up to the level required yet.  The same also might be the case if Lowton hadn't had his problems this season with Lambert, he'd have probably played more and therefore Bacuna would've been competing for a midfield slot and not stuck at right back.

[passitsideways]

The 4-3-3 is what's worked best for us under him, but at times this season he's played with a midfield diamond, used wingbacks and even the odd 4-4-2.

Well, if you look at WhoScored.com's breakdown of our results according to formation, we've had it worst when playing 4-3-3. Of course, contextual factors such as how he seems to recognise when to change up fhe formation plays a part, but we've really struggled with it in place.

I know we played 4-3-3 second half of last season, but I feel that was a more open one, where we scored more and conceded more.

[Dave]

I wonder if that's to do at all with other teams preparing to play us.

As you say, we looked pretty good playing 4-3-3 last spring. If other managers see that and set their teams up specifically to combat that style of play then we're going to find it harder, particularly against better managers than Lambert.

If we deviate from that original plan meaning that opposition's tactics aren't as effective then perhaps that's why this season we've done better when not playing in the same style as the end of last season.

[bobdylan]

So far this season we've played 34 League and Cup matches and the front 3 have scored 18 goals, i.e. 0.53 goals per match.  If they continue at this rate that's another 4 goals combined this season, even if we're generous and call it 5, that's still only 23, less than 50% of the total they scored last season (47).  Last season was dreadful, with 1 game to go we still weren't safe.  I accept the defence has been stronger this term, with Vlaar now bedded in and largely injury free and the addition of Bertrand from Jan on has helped here as well, but I can't understand how the forwards have gone so spectacularly off the boil. If they'd improved from last year and contributed say 50 goals, imagine where we could have been in the table this season.