The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[dave.woodhall]

Ask the Everton fans about Kenwright and a hell of a lot of their criticisms would sound catchingly familiar.

Was just about to post similar - many viewed Ellis in the way that  Everton fans view kenwright .

You mean he took Everton from European champions to relegation and made millions out of them?

Ellis took over a team who had just finished 11th in the table , yes we won the European cup but we did finish 11th .

Yes, we were relegated but we also came close to being champions twice - just to even things out a bit .
We can debate Ellis for years but there was good and bad in him , not just bad.

Nobody has ever said there wasn't any good in him, but as I've said time and again, most of the good came about despite him rather than because of.

[rob_bridge]

Long turned it on against us at the hawthorns -as did hadji when he scored twice against us for coventry and we know how that turned out .

*nods*

The last thing I would want us to judge a potential signing on is how well they performed against our defence, as unfortunately they won't get the free pass of playing against them anymore.

Maybe Kevin Nolan and Peter Odemwingie can join Shane Long in this new-look strikeforce?

With Pullis as manager - he has a decent record against us.

[brian green]

One thing you can bet your mortgage on is when Kenwright goes the blue scousers will deify him. I would also bet my mortgage on us not having put three consecutive home wins together for seven years under the nose of Doug Ellis.

[gsbrn68]

Long turned it on against us at the hawthorns -as did hadji when he scored twice against us for coventry and we know how that turned out .

*nods*

The last thing I would want us to judge a potential signing on is how well they performed against our defence, as unfortunately they won't get the free pass of playing against them anymore.

Maybe Kevin Nolan and Peter Odemwingie can join Shane Long in this new-look strikeforce?

With Pullis as manager - he has a decent record against us.

well were just a poor mans Stoke at the minute without the players with the physicality to pull it off, so may as well as have Pulis at least he signs players to suit the style he wants to play
not like Lambert who has a team that gets physically out muscled every game

[mr underhill]

The Lambert v Moyes thing is interesting. This might be an oversimplification but  with similar resources, Moyes got Everton to consistent top six finishes and was it once into the CL?. I can't see Lambert ever doing something similar with Villa. And as for being more naturally attack minded than Dave, what does it matter when you have the tactical nous of General Custer.

[Monty]

The Lambert v Moyes thing is interesting. This might be an oversimplification but  with similar resources, Moyes got Everton to consistent top six finishes and was it once into the CL?. I can't see Lambert ever doing something similar with Villa. And as for being more naturally attack minded than Dave, what does it matter when you have the tactical nous of General Custer.

It makes him a bit more likable. At least Lambert wants to be better - Moyes thinks that the defensive stuff is the end in itself.

[eastie]

The Lambert v Moyes thing is interesting. This might be an oversimplification but  with similar resources, Moyes got Everton to consistent top six finishes and was it once into the CL?. I can't see Lambert ever doing something similar with Villa. And as for being more naturally attack minded than Dave, what does it matter when you have the tactical nous of General Custer.

It makes him a bit more likable. At least Lambert wants to be better - Moyes thinks that the defensive stuff is the end in itself.

Would you prefer to like Everton under Moyes  finish 7th playing a dour negative brand of football or play the way lamberts team plays with highs and lows and finish 11th - genuinely interested in the reply as a lot of people I think would prefer results ahead of performances?

[Richard E]

I'd prefer to be like Man City - blowing everyone away playing brilliant football and winning the League.

[eastie]

I'd prefer to be like Man City - blowing everyone away playing brilliant football and winning the League.

Indeed, but are results more important than performance?
I personally would take a scrappy 1-0 win every time ahead of an exciting free flowing 3-3 draw.

[Richard E]

As a compromise I'd be happy with scrappy 1-0 wins at home and exciting 3-3 draws away. 

[Stu]

Interesting chart this for those who say we don't spend under lerner anymore -

 http://twitter.com/henryfraser0/status/448578190169346048/photo/1

Can't read it at work Eastie - what is the general theme?

That we spend more than all but the top six, but not by a huge amount and the difference between us and them is, well, a chasm.

[not3bad]

The Lambert v Moyes thing is interesting. This might be an oversimplification but  with similar resources, Moyes got Everton to consistent top six finishes and was it once into the CL?. I can't see Lambert ever doing something similar with Villa. And as for being more naturally attack minded than Dave, what does it matter when you have the tactical nous of General Custer.

It makes him a bit more likable. At least Lambert wants to be better - Moyes thinks that the defensive stuff is the end in itself.

Would you prefer to like Everton under Moyes  finish 7th playing a dour negative brand of football or play the way lamberts team plays with highs and lows and finish 11th - genuinely interested in the reply as a lot of people I think would prefer results ahead of performances?

My take would be: If we finish 10th/11th this season with an improved points total on last season then Lambert without a doubt. Then see who Lambert brings in and how they bring the side forward next season. If next season Villa don't look they will build on the first two seasons with Lambert in charge then it may be time to look for someone else who can take the football club further. To me that wouldn't be Moyes.  That ship has sailed.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

My take would be: If we finish 10th/11th this season with an improved points total on last season then Lambert without a doubt.

Using last season (and even the season before) as a benchmark when both seasons were as close to an utter disaster as we've suffered in recent times is extremely low. Clubs of our size and our investment shouldn't be anywhere near there. It's as though we've inherited the mentality of a newly promoted side or heaven forbid, West Brom.

I'm not sure when, how or why expectations have been considerably lowered.  I fail to see the justifiable reason for the drop other than we have little faith in the manager and/or team. It's all very similar you the latter years of Ellis; at least then we all knew where the problem lied and knew we were far better.

[Mister E]

The Lambert v Moyes thing is interesting. This might be an oversimplification but  with similar resources, Moyes got Everton to consistent top six finishes and was it once into the CL?. I can't see Lambert ever doing something similar with Villa. And as for being more naturally attack minded than Dave, what does it matter when you have the tactical nous of General Custer.

It makes him a bit more likable. At least Lambert wants to be better - Moyes thinks that the defensive stuff is the end in itself.

Would you prefer to like Everton under Moyes  finish 7th playing a dour negative brand of football or play the way lamberts team plays with highs and lows and finish 11th - genuinely interested in the reply as a lot of people I think would prefer results ahead of performances?

Your question is binary, and it ain't like that in reality.
To answer your question - I would prefer performances, but not if they consistently resulted in mediocrity and indfferent league position.
 
But I'm much more interested in purposeful improvement. What I mean by that is that we have a clear path toward improvement with a long-term (3-5 years) aim to win things. Without a journey of improvement leading to success, what's the point?

And that question can easily be aimed at Lerner right now!

[Monty]

I'd take 11th and exciting over 7th and dour, because ultimately the dour won't ever take you higher than about 7th. However, our main problem at the moment is that we're 11th and dour, which is no fun at all.