Grant Holt - confirmed on loan

[SheffieldVillain]

How come we need experienced back up now Paul is it because you've realised your transfer policy has been poor and every team needs its chiefs?

No, it's because Kozak's leg is broken.

[supertom]

Even on a short term loan I just don't see what Holt will offer us. He's well, well past his best. He's a poor player anyhow and we're not exactly paying him peanuts either. Even with the Kozak injury, it's the one position where we could actually get away with having someone injured. We've got 5 other strikers, and a good youth selection on top of that who'd probably benefit more from getting 20 minutes here and there, and in the long run it would benefit the club. Holt only leads us to believe that Lambert has no ideas on how to get us playing football. It seems he's happy to keep Guzan as our chief playmaker, which frankly is fucking pathetic.

We're in dire need of a new midfield and more defensive cover. What if we leave ourselves short in one area because we've put 28k a week of wage budget toward Grant Fucking Holt?

I'm all for getting more experience too, but we need experience and quality. If we just want a good dressing room presence (which I'm not even sure Holt will be) why don't we just wheel out Pires again?

No it's not long term, no it's not going to affect us in the grand scheme of things, but it's still nothing but laughable and smacks completely of desperation.

If Lambert doesn't address our midfield there will be hell to pay.

[not3bad]

Even on a short term loan I just don't see what Holt will offer us.

1) Cover for Kozak
2) As somone who has played and scored in the premier league, he'll be a step up from the likes of Bowery
3) He'll be a 'leader' in a team that's desperately short of them
4) He's cheap

EDIT

5) You seem to have written your post (minus the last line) in the assumption that Lambert won't address the needs of midfield.  A bit previous I'd say.

[pauliewalnuts]

There is no needle in our side or squad whatsoever. Look at Monday's game. Arsenal spent more time rolling around and moaning to the referee than they did anything else.

That's true, but what I don't get is why, if we want a player to provide that, we opt to sign one who is almost certainly not going to be playing for us much (see comments about him being back up to  Benteke)

That where I don't get it. Surely if we wanted a player for experience and ability to give as good as he gets on the pitch, it would have made more sense to get one who will actually be on the pitch in the first place?

I appreciate he'll be around training and the dressing room, too, but if that's the intention, it seems a curious way to spend wages money.

Oh well, let's see.

They only play a game for 90 minutes and that is all we see. Wiltshire doesn't turn up on a weekend and suddenly become a whinging bellend, he works on it all week.

I know that, that's why I said that bit about the dressing room and training.

My point was that, ideally, it'd be someone likely to be on the pitch, too. Wilshere's wouldn't be such an effective whiner if he wasn't doing it on the pitch as well.

[aj2k77]

How come we need experienced back up now Paul is it because you've realised your transfer policy has been poor and every team needs its chiefs?

No, it's because Kozak's leg is broken.

So his Age, manner and experience has nothing to do with it? Even though Lambert says otherwise? In that case we should have loaned Guidetti for probably cheaper. Lambert wants older players now, he said so himself, he realises finally that 8 under 25s with limited prem experience is not going to go any further than year after year relegation battles.

[supertom]

Even on a short term loan I just don't see what Holt will offer us.

1) Cover for Kozak
2) As somone who has played and scored in the premier league, he'll be a step up from the likes of Bowery
3) He'll be a 'leader' in a team that's desperately short of them
4) He's cheap

1- Do we really need cover for Kozak? Or should we have more faith in Helenius? How many times on here did we all debate whether we even needed to sign Kozak in the first place? He has done well to be fair, but it was still strange to sign a front men, being a position we've been loaded in. If Benteke does now find form, I'd not be surprised to see Weimann's game pick up too.
2- He's unfit, he's slow and lets face it, the ball isn't going to be arrowed with homing missile accuracy to him. He's gonna have to chase the thing and then he's not gonna look very good. We need our strikers running, and I'd actually play Bowery ahead of him.
3- He was skipper at Norwich, but he's coming into a new squad now, he's hardly been a "leader" at Wigan. I'm also not sure he's the best role model. He's hardly inspirational, and if, as expected, he's only going to play 10 minutes here and there, he can't do much. We need quality leaders playing on the pitch.
4- He's not that cheap.

Edit- 5 If our budget is tight, then surely 28k would be of more use going toward  1-2 midfielders. Progress seems very slow on that front too, as Lambo appears to have put his eggs in one basket. And I'm going by the assumption that because he's not addressed this issue in 18 months, I'm not expecting it to be fully addressed (if at all) this window.

[SheffieldVillain]

How come we need experienced back up now Paul is it because you've realised your transfer policy has been poor and every team needs its chiefs?

No, it's because Kozak's leg is broken.

So his Age, manner and experience has nothing to do with it? Even though Lambert says otherwise? In that case we should have loaned Guidetti for probably cheaper. Lambert wants older players now, he said so himself, he realises finally that 8 under 25s with limited prem experience is not going to go any further than year after year relegation battles.

Of course they have something to do with it. But in this case he's covering a specific need. Or perhaps you think that he engineered Kozak's leg break in some strange attempt to be able to reverse his transfer policy but cover up the fact he's doing so?

Do you not think the fact that he has finally got rid of most of the 'senior pros' already on the books who were draining money from the club might also have something to do with the fact that he is able to start bringing in one or two of his own?

[SheffieldVillain]

Even on a short term loan I just don't see what Holt will offer us.

1) Cover for Kozak
2) As somone who has played and scored in the premier league, he'll be a step up from the likes of Bowery
3) He'll be a 'leader' in a team that's desperately short of them
4) He's cheap

1- Do we really need cover for Kozak? Or should we have more faith in Helenius? How many times on here did we all debate whether we even needed to sign Kozak in the first place? He has done well to be fair, but it was still strange to sign a front men, being a position we've been loaded in. If Benteke does now find form, I'd not be surprised to see Weimann's game pick up too.
2- He's unfit, he's slow and lets face it, the ball isn't going to be arrowed with homing missile accuracy to him. He's gonna have to chase the thing and then he's not gonna look very good. We need our strikers running, and I'd actually play Bowery ahead of him.
3- He was skipper at Norwich, but he's coming into a new squad now, he's hardly been a "leader" at Wigan. I'm also not sure he's the best role model. He's hardly inspirational, and if, as expected, he's only going to play 10 minutes here and there, he can't do much. We need quality leaders playing on the pitch.
4- He's not that cheap.

1. Does it ever hurt to have extra cover?
2/3. He's unfit and not inspirational. How do you know this? Have you watched him in training?
4. He's on loan and we don't know how much he is being paid. On what basis can you state he is expensive?

[Damo70]

Without spoiling the thread am I allowed to be underwhelmed but calmly accepting of what is just a four month loan deal which I don't think will effect what we do or don't do regarding any other transfer window moves?

[supertom]

Even on a short term loan I just don't see what Holt will offer us.

1) Cover for Kozak
2) As somone who has played and scored in the premier league, he'll be a step up from the likes of Bowery
3) He'll be a 'leader' in a team that's desperately short of them
4) He's cheap

1- Do we really need cover for Kozak? Or should we have more faith in Helenius? How many times on here did we all debate whether we even needed to sign Kozak in the first place? He has done well to be fair, but it was still strange to sign a front men, being a position we've been loaded in. If Benteke does now find form, I'd not be surprised to see Weimann's game pick up too.
2- He's unfit, he's slow and lets face it, the ball isn't going to be arrowed with homing missile accuracy to him. He's gonna have to chase the thing and then he's not gonna look very good. We need our strikers running, and I'd actually play Bowery ahead of him.
3- He was skipper at Norwich, but he's coming into a new squad now, he's hardly been a "leader" at Wigan. I'm also not sure he's the best role model. He's hardly inspirational, and if, as expected, he's only going to play 10 minutes here and there, he can't do much. We need quality leaders playing on the pitch.
4- He's not that cheap.

1. Does it ever hurt to have extra cover?
2/3. He's unfit and not inspirational. How do you know this? Have you watched him in training?
4. He's on loan and we don't know how much he is being paid. On what basis can you state he is expensive?

He's earning 28 grand a week. Yes that's not expensive in todays market but it isn't cheap. It's also IMO 28k out of our wage budget that could have been better used. It's still a lot to pay for "a bit of extra cover." We should be concentrating on improving our first 11.
I think the reaction of everyone at Wigan tells you everything you need to know about his condition in all honesty. Last season for Norwich he struggled to reproduce what he had the year before and fitness was part of that issue.

[SheffieldVillain]

Even on a short term loan I just don't see what Holt will offer us.

1) Cover for Kozak
2) As somone who has played and scored in the premier league, he'll be a step up from the likes of Bowery
3) He'll be a 'leader' in a team that's desperately short of them
4) He's cheap

1- Do we really need cover for Kozak? Or should we have more faith in Helenius? How many times on here did we all debate whether we even needed to sign Kozak in the first place? He has done well to be fair, but it was still strange to sign a front men, being a position we've been loaded in. If Benteke does now find form, I'd not be surprised to see Weimann's game pick up too.
2- He's unfit, he's slow and lets face it, the ball isn't going to be arrowed with homing missile accuracy to him. He's gonna have to chase the thing and then he's not gonna look very good. We need our strikers running, and I'd actually play Bowery ahead of him.
3- He was skipper at Norwich, but he's coming into a new squad now, he's hardly been a "leader" at Wigan. I'm also not sure he's the best role model. He's hardly inspirational, and if, as expected, he's only going to play 10 minutes here and there, he can't do much. We need quality leaders playing on the pitch.
4- He's not that cheap.

1. Does it ever hurt to have extra cover?
2/3. He's unfit and not inspirational. How do you know this? Have you watched him in training?
4. He's on loan and we don't know how much he is being paid. On what basis can you state he is expensive?

He's earning 28 grand a week. Yes that's not expensive in todays market but it isn't cheap. It's also IMO 28k out of our wage budget that could have been better used. It's still a lot to pay for "a bit of extra cover." We should be concentrating on improving our first 11.
I think the reaction of everyone at Wigan tells you everything you need to know about his condition in all honesty. Last season for Norwich he struggled to reproduce what he had the year before and fitness was part of that issue.

Again, we don't know that we're paying the whole £28k.

'The reaction of everyone at Wigan' - a bit of an over-the-top statement no? What, they've had street parties upon his departure? Or do you just mean that he wasn't playing regularly?

[pauliewalnuts]

Without spoiling the thread am I allowed to be underwhelmed but calmly accepting of what is just a four month loan deal which I don't think will effect what we do or don't do regarding any other transfer window moves?

The big question isn't about Holt, it's the other players we need in. Fingers crossed something happens there.

Sometimes the collective despair on here is quite impressive. The last day of the January window last year was a stormer, when we signed Dawkins and Sylla.

[edgysatsuma89]

Without spoiling the thread am I allowed to be underwhelmed but calmly accepting of what is just a four month loan deal which I don't think will effect what we do or don't do regarding any other transfer window moves?

Indeed.

The only issue I still have is 'what must Helenius be thinking?' If I thought Holt was going to be behind him in the pecking order then fair enough, but I doubt it.

Overall though as long as more come in I'm not too fussed.

[not3bad]

[He's unfit

Sorry, I didn't realize you have ITK with the trainers at Wigan.  Maybe you'd like to reporoduce their reports for us?

3- He was skipper at Norwich

Indeed, when Lambert was manager, and it worked very well - of course he'll be working with different players but Lambert will have taken that into account, because he worked with both sets.  Thanks for confirming my argument.

[supertom]

Even on a short term loan I just don't see what Holt will offer us.

1) Cover for Kozak
2) As somone who has played and scored in the premier league, he'll be a step up from the likes of Bowery
3) He'll be a 'leader' in a team that's desperately short of them
4) He's cheap

1- Do we really need cover for Kozak? Or should we have more faith in Helenius? How many times on here did we all debate whether we even needed to sign Kozak in the first place? He has done well to be fair, but it was still strange to sign a front men, being a position we've been loaded in. If Benteke does now find form, I'd not be surprised to see Weimann's game pick up too.
2- He's unfit, he's slow and lets face it, the ball isn't going to be arrowed with homing missile accuracy to him. He's gonna have to chase the thing and then he's not gonna look very good. We need our strikers running, and I'd actually play Bowery ahead of him.
3- He was skipper at Norwich, but he's coming into a new squad now, he's hardly been a "leader" at Wigan. I'm also not sure he's the best role model. He's hardly inspirational, and if, as expected, he's only going to play 10 minutes here and there, he can't do much. We need quality leaders playing on the pitch.
4- He's not that cheap.

1. Does it ever hurt to have extra cover?
2/3. He's unfit and not inspirational. How do you know this? Have you watched him in training?
4. He's on loan and we don't know how much he is being paid. On what basis can you state he is expensive?

He's earning 28 grand a week. Yes that's not expensive in todays market but it isn't cheap. It's also IMO 28k out of our wage budget that could have been better used. It's still a lot to pay for "a bit of extra cover." We should be concentrating on improving our first 11.
I think the reaction of everyone at Wigan tells you everything you need to know about his condition in all honesty. Last season for Norwich he struggled to reproduce what he had the year before and fitness was part of that issue.

Again, we don't know that we're paying the whole £28k.

'The reaction of everyone at Wigan' - a bit of an over-the-top statement no? What, they've had street parties upon his departure? Or do you just mean that he wasn't playing regularly?

We don't know for sure about paying the whole thing, but I'd safely assume it given that Dave Whelan is a man who more often than not will get his own way and he'll want us paying it all. We may have even paid a fee on top.

Wigan fans are generally finding it quite amusing. I'm not being funny but if people aren't expecting a lot of choruses of "you fat bastard!" from opposition fans when Holt plays, you'd be mistaken. I saw him a few times last season lumbering around and yes, he's not been playing regularly for a club in the Championship. He's older now, looks less fit. I just can't see him offering much on the pitch. If he happens to bag the winner against WBA, I'll happily eat my humble pie however.