How would you feel....

[garyshawsknee]

I agree that Luna is finding it hard so far and we have been unlucky with Bennett's injury as he finished last season well, Bacuna has played well in some games and awful in others, but far too often they have been exposed by lack of support from midfielders. If Albrighton has a run that may help on the right ( or Bacuna in midfield ) and Delph was missed a lot against Utd.

[Pat McMahon]

PL doesn't come across as a mug, so he must see that our midfield is so one dimensional at the minute and that a different kind of midfielder is needed, well i effing hope he does.

In that case he must also observe that whoever he selects in the full back positions cannot actually defend with any kind of quality.

But don't you think we could get away with that given Clark's improved form, and if Vlaar and Okore were fit, if the front 3 were banging in goals for fun like last season and we signed a creative midfielder? 

Mr Zimmermann, if all the ifs in that sentence were true we would probably be in the top 4!

As a very good midfielder himself, I am sure Lambert is as aware as anybody of our weaknesses there. Him doing something about it (please make it quick) is the part I am looking forward to.

[Clampy]

I agree that Luna is finding it hard so far and we have been unlucky with Bennett's injury as he finished last season well, Bacuna has played well in some games and awful in others, but far too often they have been exposed by lack of support from midfielders.

I agree. Two of Man Utd's goals last week came from sloppy passes in midfield.

[BoskoDjembaSalifou]

I'm on the fence at the moment. These next four games will decide a lot for me.

[Damo70]

I'm on the fence at the moment. These next four games will decide a lot for me.

I personally think that anything less than six points from the next four games would be enough to set some serious alarm bells ringing. A Christmas without Vlaar worries me.

[JUAN PABLO]

I've really enjoyed this thread, a lot of sense being spoken. I, as many others, wanted him in the first place and thought he would bring a dynamic, direct but exciting brand of football with him.  Granted, he hasn't had a lot of money to spend (more than the likes of Swansea, though) but he's got much worse squads playing a similar brand of entertaining football.

I'm now at the stage where I don't really trust him. I don't want to load him with what limited resources we have and have him fluff it like he did with Kozak. It may sound harsh and I'm more than prepared to stick by him, but it was glaringly obvious that we needed quality creative players rather than another big man up front ... Unless you WANT to play long ball football. To think we paid £7m for a 24 year old who has scored 10 in 58 (4 in 30 for Seria B team Brescia) just incase something went to pot with Benteke ... 

Whilst I'm at it, why did he bring Bowery in? I really can't stand this signing not only because he wasn't showing any promise in league 2 (17 in 101, 0 goals in 4 appearances for Barrow) but because of the opportunity cost.  He may not have cost much money, but while he is taking up a place on the bench & getting some game time, it means that our academy players and the likes of Helenius don't have a hope of showing what they can do in the first team.

Having said that, allow him to bring in a couple of players that can make an immediate impact and give him the rest of the season to show us that he has what it takes to move us forward. If he can't, I dread to think who Lerner will appoint.

great first post    . a lot of sense

[paul_e]

I agree that Luna is finding it hard so far and we have been unlucky with Bennett's injury as he finished last season well, Bacuna has played well in some games and awful in others, but far too often they have been exposed by lack of support from midfielders.

I agree. Two of Man Utd's goals last week came from sloppy passes in midfield.

All of their goals came from sloppy play in possession by us and all of them involved more than one player running into the left back channel.  The first was particularly poor from Baker, he gave no support to Luna, who had half an eye on Rafael, to stop the cross and then when the cross came in he was a few yards away from Welbeck so when the ball came back out he was unchallenged and just needed to get a decent contact to score a sitter.

Personally I think both Luna and Bennett are good footballers and are worth persevering with but we need to have more of the ball to stop them being targeted and we need to support them better when the opposition fullbacks come forward.

I'm now at the stage where I don't really trust him. I don't want to load him with what limited resources we have and have him fluff it like he did with Kozak. It may sound harsh and I'm more than prepared to stick by him, but it was glaringly obvious that we needed quality creative players rather than another big man up front ... Unless you WANT to play long ball football. To think we paid £7m for a 24 year old who has scored 10 in 58 (4 in 30 for Seria B team Brescia) just incase something went to pot with Benteke ... 

As I said in the post directly above yours, Kozak isn't good with his back to goal so regardless of how big he is he's not suited to long ball football in the slightest.  People really need to stop focusing on his height and start paying attention to what he actually does on the pitch.  One of the best strikers in the world for the last decade or so is a big tall guy who isn't a target man (although Zlatan is so good that he holds the ball up as well as anyone despite being far better when he gets his head up and is facing the goal) and yet people still have a mindset that a tall striker is there to win headers and put himself about.

Yep, we are absolutely crying out for a creative midfielder. Was there not one in the whole of world football who would have improved us and was attainable? Maybe there wasn't but I'd hate to think that was the case.

You haven't paid attention the way we've gone about things under Lambert, we do our homework on players now and build a full scout report (the 30page dossier on Westwood is the well known example, as is the fact that we were looking at Kozak for months).  The disadvantage of that approach is that you're only really going to get that level of detail on a handful of players in each position so we probably had 2-3 players in the creative midfielder role that we were considering, it's pretty clear that Kiyotake was one of them.  If none of those were available you either stick with what you have or you gamble on someone you're not sure about.  Personally I'd rather we do the former because very few of the late gambles pay off.

[SamTheMouse]

As I said in the post directly above yours, Kozak isn't good with his back to goal so regardless of how big he is he's not suited to long ball football in the slightest.  People really need to stop focusing on his height and start paying attention to what he actually does on the pitch.  One of the best strikers in the world for the last decade or so is a big tall guy who isn't a target man (although Zlatan is so good that he holds the ball up as well as anyone despite being far better when he gets his head up and is facing the goal) and yet people still have a mindset that a tall striker is there to win headers and put himself about.

Unfortunately, those people seem to include our entire defence and midfield.

[paul_e]

As I said in the post directly above yours, Kozak isn't good with his back to goal so regardless of how big he is he's not suited to long ball football in the slightest.  People really need to stop focusing on his height and start paying attention to what he actually does on the pitch.  One of the best strikers in the world for the last decade or so is a big tall guy who isn't a target man (although Zlatan is so good that he holds the ball up as well as anyone despite being far better when he gets his head up and is facing the goal) and yet people still have a mindset that a tall striker is there to win headers and put himself about.

Unfortunately, those people seem to include our entire defence and midfield.

I agree totally, that's the biggest challenge Lambert has, he really needs to stop the team banging it long, Benteke is so good a focal point that it's become too easy.

[ktvillan]

In answer to the OP it would depend on who we could get instead, and that's impossible to say in advance.   I wouldn't be devastated if he went but it's very easy to do the frying pan to fire trick with managers. 

Last season he was rightly cut a lot of slack, especially as he had a small budget and seemed to want to develop a footballing, passing, pressing style, which sometimes showed through and sometimes not. 

This year the expectation should have been to sign players a notch or two up from last year's signings and to kick on a little.  I suppose we have done in terms of points and results but in just about every other aspect - tactics, possession, hard work, quality of signings, confidence, style of play -  we seem to have gone backwards.  It certainly doesn't feel as if we are moving forwards or even moving towards some kind of coherent ideal.

Many managers have been sacked for the same or less (Clarke and AVB?), so he's probably already relying on the owner's patience.  But having said all that I still somehow have a gut feeling there is a good manager in there somewhere.   

[Damo70]

In answer to the OP it would depend on who we could get instead, and that's impossible to say in advance.   I wouldn't be devastated if he went but it's very easy to do the frying pan to fire trick with managers. 

Last season he was rightly cut a lot of slack, especially as he had a small budget and seemed to want to develop a footballing, passing, pressing style, which sometimes showed through and sometimes not. 

This year the expectation should have been to sign players a notch or two up from last year's signings and to kick on a little.  I suppose we have done in terms of points and results but in just about every other aspect - tactics, possession, hard work, quality of signings, confidence, style of play -  we seem to have gone backwards.  It certainly doesn't feel as if we are moving forwards or even moving towards some kind of coherent ideal.

Many managers have been sacked for the same or less (Clarke and AVB?), so he's probably already relying on the owner's patience.  But having said all that I still somehow have a gut feeling there is a good manager in there somewhere.   

I would say points and results is the bottom line he should be judged on.

[Drummond]

I really wish I hadn't opened this thread. I've only read the first page and frankly it's an embarrassing read.

I know people want immediate success but it was never going to be realistic with what we've got. We need to build and plan for the future which is precisely what's happening. With the way football seems to be going and even the top clubs shipping 5 or 6 goals against each other, it's going to happen.

Our players and manager need continued support.

[Mister E]

All of their goals came from sloppy play in possession by us and all of them involved more than one player running into the left back channel.  The first was particularly poor from Baker, he gave no support to Luna, who had half an eye on Rafael, to stop the cross and then when the cross came in he was a few yards away from Welbeck so when the ball came back out he was unchallenged and just needed to get a decent contact to score a sitter...

Sylla was most at fault for the first, for failing to get the block on Rafael some way out; but I agree Baker was horribly out of position and seemingly mesmerised by the ball rather than the players around him.
I have thought for a while that Baker is a weak link, simply becuase in today's game all CB have to be able to play the ball out of dfence comfortably and competently. Baker's distribution is shockingly bad.
I think there is some potential in Luna, and possibly with Sylla although I'm beginning to doubt the latter.

[Phil from the upper holte]

I don't think it really matters what Kozak had scored before he came here because he has 3 goals for us which makes 2nd top high scorer, I don't think the stick he's getting is deserved

[BoskoDjembaSalifou]

I really wish I hadn't opened this thread. I've only read the first page and frankly it's an embarrassing read.

I know people want immediate success but it was never going to be realistic with what we've got. We need to build and plan for the future which is precisely what's happening. With the way football seems to be going and even the top clubs shipping 5 or 6 goals against each other, it's going to happen.

Our players and manager need continued support.

I'm sorry but there's no excuse for the shit performances we've had to watch recently. I'll get behind a plan when I see evidence of it being carried out.

I don't want him sacked just yet but there has to be signs of improvement soon!