Aston Villa v Sunderland Post-Match Thread

[saunders_heroes]

The fact that we are all still arguing and debating means that we care and expect better no matter how deluded we may appear - the day we accept just being in the Premiership as our reason for being we become the Albion. Keep ranting Villans!

I did attend hungover and it did have a numbing effect ;-)

Bang on. We shouldn't just be happy with just being in the PL. We're Aston Villa, not the Albion or Stoke etc. We are into our 4th season of struggle now, this hasn't happened in decades. We should demand better.

It isn't happening now. It might not suit your argument but we are in the top half.

True, but we're still painful to watch. You'd have to be some kind of masochist to enjoy the football this season, and like it or not we're only 6 points above the relegation zone.

And six points behind Manchester City. This season has been horrible at times but we can both remember rebuilding work under previous managers that was equally bad (Saunders' first season after promotion, BFR's first one, Sir Graham's second, Brian Little's first) but brought eventual rewards.

You're right we've had rebuilding work before but when was the last time we've been this bad for so long? This is our 4th season of just horrible football now, when is it going to end? It's the lack of investment that's depressing me. You just can't compete in the PL without real investment, and it looks like Lerner has given up. If I knew that he was going to increase the quality of player we sign in the near future I'd be a little bit more positive but I just don't see any evidence of it. The players we signed in the summer look out of their depth and it's showing on the pitch.

Those four years you mention include one when we finished ninth despite everything going wrong from start to finish and this one which is currently a third completed. 

I know we finished 9th under Houllier, but it wasn't an enjoyable season and we struggled for most of it. The next 2 seasons were just plain awful. This season started with a brilliant win at Arsenal but since then it's been just horrible to watch. Is that really such a controversial opinion?

[villa `cross the mersey]

 

Oh well, for us Villa fans 10th place is now the new "4th"

You're sounding like Paul Franks there. Nobody sees tenth as a long-term goal but for this season it would represent improvement.

It was  tongue in cheek Mr Woodhall 

[Matt Collins]

Sounds like another very full game. I think we've been pretty poor to watch all season, which I'm surprised by

But we can't deny that we're better than we were a year ago by some distance. Let's hope that our performance yday was partly the result of having so many players just back from injury.

Some big players for us have only just come back into things

[Ron Manager]

I'd like to see Robinson and Johnson given some game time. Both attack minded with ability. The opposition won't really have much idea about them, so they could take people by surprise. Both seem comfortable with the ball at their feet too.
We need some sort of creative spark from somewhere.

I think Callum Robinson has got serious potential. Why not have him on the bench and Grealish too(when he returns.) At least we could see if they have anything where it matters.

[dave.woodhall]

Oh well, for us Villa fans 10th place is now the new "4th"

You're sounding like Paul Franks there. Nobody sees tenth as a long-term goal but for this season it would represent improvement.

It was  tongue in cheek Mr Woodhall 

Oh. I don't do humour.

[Clampy]

We struggled under Houiller mainly because of the horrendous injury list. I don't think this season's been horrible to watch. We haven't been as free flowing going forward as we were at times last season but we've tightened up at the back and the midfield have weighed in with a few goals (and about time). If we can get Gabby, Benteke and Weimann (who have all picked up injuries) firing again, we should be fine.

[Dave Cooper please]

Dave, will Lambert actually buy a player with previous Premier league experience?

Probably not, but then again, next season this team will all have at least one or two seasons of Premiership experience under their belts won't they?

[Ron Manager]

We struggled under Houiller mainly because of the horrendous injury list. I don't think this season's been horrible to watch. We haven't been as free flowing going forward as we were at times last season but we've tightened up at the back and the midfield have weighed in with a few goals (and about time). If we can get Gabby, Benteke and Weimann (who have all picked up injuries) firing again, we should be fine.

You are Paul Lambert and I claim my £5!

[villa `cross the mersey]

We struggled under Houiller mainly because of the horrendous injury list. I don't think this season's been horrible to watch. We haven't been as free flowing going forward as we were at times last season but we've tightened up at the back and the midfield have weighed in with a few goals (and about time). If we can get Gabby, Benteke and Weimann (who have all picked up injuries) firing again, we should be fine.

"we should be fine" - I am reading that in a dour Scottish accent - is that you Paul?

[Dr_Fegg]

Opposition park bus and villa fail to break them down!!

Not exactly new news is it....

Still got to go with the half full viewpoint, overall still better than the last few years. Yes midfield needs some creativity but can we just do the basics for now. Not happy watching their centre half carry the ball 40+ yds unchallenged. If you havent got skill then you can always go with tempo and closing them down. Thats how we changed the 2nd half against the baggies but little or no sign of it yesterday.

Really dont know about Benteke, think he's still not 100% fit and may need a break (or 60 mins max).

[SoccerHQ]

I'm coming to believe that Tekkers has been "found out". O'Shea completely dominated him today.

I'd like to think he's unfit because I can't ever remember him giving a poorer performance than he did today. He was dismal and at times he just looked like he wasn't bothered. To be fair to him the service to him was practically non existent but it still doesn't excuse his shift today.
As I said, I just hope that he's not match fit and he'll come good again.

He played a bit like that against Wigan at home last season and then started banging them in soon after. I firmly believe he'll start scoring again soon so I'm not concerned. Weimann needs to pull his socks up though.

[Damo70]

I am happier keeping clean sheets regularly and worrying if we are going to get a goal to turn it into a win than going into every game feeling we need to score three goals to get anything from it.

[nodge]

I came out of the ground yesterday not feeling too bad and certainly nowhere near as pessimistic as last year.  Then I come on here and feel like topping myself.  I think Brown and O'Shea probably both had their best games of the season for them and Benteke had his worst for us.  I suppose we'll see in the next couple of games what his attitude's like.  I certainly think it's time Lowton was brought back and Bacuna was given a chance where KEA plays.  That chance where KEA got through and then his touch let him down so he had to try and cross under pressure would hopefully come more naturally to Bacuna.

[SoccerHQ]

I can understand that we may make slow progress up the table to a position most of us expect to be in'that is 5th-8th. Without capital we cannot expect to go any higher. Everton are our benchmark in every sense.Except they could afford Lukaku's loan fee(and wages) and we couldnt.Both Moyes and Martinez have been extremely good value for that club.

On reflection Gerard Houlier could have been the best manager we have had in years if his health had stood up(it didnt) or if he had given up his other job as Tourism CEO for the city of Liverpool (he didnt.)

Unlike Lambert ,Mcleish and MON(mainly) he appeared to have the right contacts and the ability to attract top players

I really had high hopes for Lambert. I thought we would see a couple of highly skilled technically adept German players in. Players I had never heard of, but in the end nothing transpired.

We have relied on Benteke far too much and now he has had a dramatic loss of form we have very little to excite us.

You know what I miss the days of Ron Atkinson and Graham Taylor and yes MON.

Nothing to look forward to now.

I know how you feel mate. I would add Little and Gregory to that list. 1996-2002, we were stacked full of potential and never out of the top eight. It just has felt like our stock as fallen really far and as though those we once competed with are too far ahead now to be ever caught.

I don't think Houllier was the right manager for us though. Maybe as a DoF but not a manager. I also thought Lambert's transfer business would be more progressive than it has been. I also didn't quite anticipate how bad we would be technically this season and also how direct.

It's just frustrating watching us, we are so ordinary for a club that had Champion's League aspirations just a few years ago and are now somewhat lucky to be still in the division. How we stayed up the McLeish year is still a mystery to me.

When did the rule come in that where you are now is where you will be forever?

Football has changed since the 90s though Dave.

Back then if you spend a bit and wisely it was realistic to finish above the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea, Newcastle did, Blackburn did and we did in 95/96.

Now with all the billionaires it's a little bit more tricky. We tried it with someone not far off that status and we couldn't quite do it.

We were finishing above Man. City regularly fairly recently....between 07-09 but we didn't in 09/10 and I felt that was our last chance for a while as Man. City were signing some quality players and so it has proved. We certainly won't be finishing above them in the league for a long time now.

It is much tougher just to finish 6th now than in the 90s I'd say and below that you're just treading water. Really that's where the good football thing comes into it, likes of Swansea and Southampton are good to watch most weeks so that can make finishing 8-9th that bit more enjoyable.

That and actually win one of the domestic cups.

[Dante Lavelli]

Anyone know a site where you can compare player's stats between seasons?

Benteke looked incredibly immobile. Not sure whether he runs were wasted of wether he didn't bother.