Are we a boring outfit?

[dave.woodhall]

I think we're the only side to have been in the premier league since the start but never to have qualified for the Champions League knockouts at least?

That does rather sound like mediocrity.

It sounds to me like we've been one of the seven clubs consistently good enough to stay in it.

[Ron Manager]

Well I have been going down Villa Park nearly 58 years and supporters of my longevity tend to forget that most of you posting were not even born when we won the European Cup or the fabulous charge up from the old third division. One or two of you see Aston Villa FC through rose coloured spectacles as if nothing is ever wrong either with the players or the manager but nothing is ever perfect at any club in the world and you have to take the good times with the bad.

Things may improve under Lambert but not to the point where we become a force to be reckoned with Im afraid. This is because Mr Lerner is still counting the dimes and for all we know that will carry on until he sells up . Our one hope is that some oil rich sultan buys him out and puts considerable capital into the club. Then we have a chance.

We are seen at the moment as a club on the same level as Hull/Sunderland/West Brom and yes Stoke.

Many supporters of other clubs do not know what the European Cup was, They only know about the Champions League and Sky,Sky,Sky.

Most have heard of Benteke due to his exploits in the second half of last season when we were anything but boring. But no one up front is showing this season...so far.

We are doing alright in an understated way but at some point in the future our absent Chairman will have to get his guitar out and sing to himself (in his darkened room) "Shall I stay or shall I go?"

I think we know the answer!

[SoccerHQ]

The most boring teams in the league currently are West Ham, Stoke and Norwich.

I don't think we're boring, just the football's been shite recently but I reckon that will pick up now in the run up to xmas.

How anyone can say we were boring from xmas onwards is bonkers.

[SoccerHQ]

You know my views Ads and a good idea to get a separate thread going. I say at the macro level we are though you can highlight examples of excitement down at the micro level of individual games. If I had to rank the decades I have been watching the Villa, this decade would be bottom of the pile (my first game was circa 1971). If I had to rank periods of five years, again this would be down near the bottom. However, I'm willing to admit that my increasingly old git stance and the fact that most football bores me these days - I can't stay awake during an England match and fast forward through most of MOTD quite frequently - has something to do with it!

Certainly, as I said elsewhere, other fans I meet think we're boring and worse, an irrelevance. I'd like to say that doesn't matter but it hurts you know to sit in a pub with a load of cockney Spurs fans and see them treat us that way. The only player they'd heard of was Benteke. We just don't really seem to have a say in things anymore and I could weep sometimes when I watch clips from the Villa Memories thread

This 08/13 of barmy managerial appointments, a couple of top 6 finishes and a cup final appearance beats 03-08 hands down and it's on a par with 98-2003.


The last time we were genuinely successful over a 5 year period and one of the top teams in the country was 93-98.

[N'ZMAV]

We're not boring, but we play some awful shite at times. Improvement needed. Glad we are defending better however, which may be boring for neutrals.

[supertom]

I think we're the only side to have been in the premier league since the start but never to have qualified for the Champions League knockouts at least?

That does rather sound like mediocrity.

It sounds to me like we've been one of the seven clubs consistently good enough to stay in it.

And we have actually finished top 4 twice (2nd in the first season) in that time. It might have been the wrong time to do it, but just remember, Spurs and Everton haven't finished any higher than fourth.
That they've both overtaken us in recent years is another matter, but it's down to better off field management. Under O Neill we eventually usurped Everton and were a step above them after a few seasons of them being just ahead of us. Of course we had no contingency for what happened next or sustainability.
As for knockout stages, Everton didn't actually get past the CL preliminaries the season after they finished 4th did they? They fell at the first hurdle IIRC. We've not been brilliant in Europe by any means but we've been marginally better than Everton since football began.

[SoccerHQ]

You know my views Ads and a good idea to get a separate thread going. I say at the macro level we are though you can highlight examples of excitement down at the micro level of individual games. If I had to rank the decades I have been watching the Villa, this decade would be bottom of the pile (my first game was circa 1971). If I had to rank periods of five years, again this would be down near the bottom. However, I'm willing to admit that my increasingly old git stance and the fact that most football bores me these days - I can't stay awake during an England match and fast forward through most of MOTD quite frequently - has something to do with it!

Certainly, as I said elsewhere, other fans I meet think we're boring and worse, an irrelevance. I'd like to say that doesn't matter but it hurts you know to sit in a pub with a load of cockney Spurs fans and see them treat us that way. The only player they'd heard of was Benteke. We just don't really seem to have a say in things anymore and I could weep sometimes when I watch clips from the Villa Memories thread

What do the West Ham fans you know think of us out of interest. They are the most boring club in the premier league by a long Big Sam hoof.

[supertom]

To be honest I'm only interested in us as a club and what happens. Every other club bores me. That hasn't always been the case, but I don't think the league is as good as it was 10-15 years previous, nor does it have as many standout characters and players. Plus it's increasingly more riddled with tosspot players, which in part has marred my enjoyment to watch a game nuetrally.

Also when the Prem was in it's early years, most clubs in the top flight would carry a mercurial player. That doesn't happen as much now. Occasionally there's a special sort of player playing outside the top four (and not for long). But back in the day clubs from top to bottom could carry 1-2 mercurial/lazy players. The games so competitive now, a lot of the clubs fighting to tread water in this league would rather have 11 gut busters in their side. I mean just thinking of players who were game turners who never played at big clubs, like Le Tissier, Carbone, PDC, Ginola, Kindladze, Ravenelli, Juninho. For ourselves we had Merson, Atkinson, Yorke (though he could graft too and was consistent too).
But clubs below the top 6-7 are less inclined to carry players like this nowadays. Someone like Taarabt doesn't flourish in the Prem, whereby 15-20 years ago, he'd probably have a side built around him perhaps. I think even now, a player like Cantona would struggle to have the impact he did if he was playing in this era.

I think the whole league is a lot more boring these days. It's not just a case of us being "boring." I think a lot of footy fans are like myself now. My club is what I'm interested. The rest doesn't bother me unless it directly affects my club.
Back in the 90's, up to the early noughties I could happily sit and watch a Spurs game to watch Daveed doing his thing, or Arsenal to see the likes of Bergkamp and Henry in their pomp. I hated Utd but watching Cantona was an awe inspiring joy at times. There's a handful of very watchable players now, but generally the overall spectacle isn't quite as good, and too many players are just a bit unlikeable. We know as much about players as we've ever done before, and often a little too much. Chelsea, a club I quite enjoyed to watch back in the Franco Zola era, are now a club that represents the worst in Football. They're repulsive and the people who are the face of that club, particularly JT are repugnant individuals.

[silhillvilla]

To a neutral, yes, we are very boring.

[Ads]

Who cares what a neutral thinks? How can you be neutral and be a football fan? There is always some affect on the Villa when watching others play, wanting one team to do another to keep us above them, or another team which has caused mortal offence in games gone by which provides interest.

[ciggiesnbeer]

I imagine other teams fans might put us in the same category as WBA or Fulham. Sort of that middling team that bobbles around a bit and pulls the occasional upset.

We are the kind of team you know the name of the keeper and maybe one other player, usually the striker.

I love the Villa but I dont think our current style is exciting enough to make us stand out from the pack in the way say Swansea does.

[silhillvilla]

Who cares what a neutral thinks? How can you be neutral and be a football fan? There is always some affect on the Villa when watching others play, wanting one team to do another to keep us above them, or another team which has caused mortal offence in games gone by which provides interest.

Sorry neutral was the wrong term. I meant a fan of others especially with no Mids connection. We are nothing to them , very much an album filler of a side.

[Matt Collins]

I think we're the only side to have been in the premier league since the start but never to have qualified for the Champions League knockouts at least?

That does rather sound like mediocrity.

It sounds to me like we've been one of the seven clubs consistently good enough to stay in it.

And we have actually finished top 4 twice (2nd in the first season) in that time. It might have been the wrong time to do it, but just remember, Spurs and Everton haven't finished any higher than fourth.
That they've both overtaken us in recent years is another matter, but it's down to better off field management. Under O Neill we eventually usurped Everton and were a step above them after a few seasons of them being just ahead of us. Of course we had no contingency for what happened next or sustainability.
As for knockout stages, Everton didn't actually get past the CL preliminaries the season after they finished 4th did they? They fell at the first hurdle IIRC. We've not been brilliant in Europe by any means but we've been marginally better than Everton since football began.

We've finished second twice and fourth, plus several top six finishes since I've supported villa. Te spell from c 1990 to the late 1990s or even up to the end of the MON era has probably been our most consistent era of relative success for about 100 years. Although I think I'd rather win the league and then go back down again like the generation before me enjoyed.

But it is frustrating that we've consistently failed to take the leap when we had the chance. Of course  it could have gone wrong, but its could have gone right!

Finish second under SGT always likely to be a one off. Half the team weren't even really top flight players.

But under big Ron we failed to capitalise. Little and Doug rested on their laurels after we finished fourth. And then when Doug did give a manager quite a bit of money he gave it to John Gregory who made a number of bad buys and yet somehow never finished outside the top eight.

Bt biggest of all we chose MON and wasted a wonderful opportunity. If we'd bought youngsters like spurs, or with the eye for talent of Everton, we really could have built a sustainable exciting future

As it is we're still trying to sort out the balance sheet mess that we were left with. I don't blame Lerner for 'counting the dimes' at all

[eastie]

I think we're the only side to have been in the premier league since the start but never to have qualified for the Champions League knockouts at least?

That does rather sound like mediocrity.

It sounds to me like we've been one of the seven clubs consistently good enough to stay in it.

And we have actually finished top 4 twice (2nd in the first season) in that time. It might have been the wrong time to do it, but just remember, Spurs and Everton haven't finished any higher than fourth.
That they've both overtaken us in recent years is another matter, but it's down to better off field management. Under O Neill we eventually usurped Everton and were a step above them after a few seasons of them being just ahead of us. Of course we had no contingency for what happened next or sustainability.
As for knockout stages, Everton didn't actually get past the CL preliminaries the season after they finished 4th did they? They fell at the first hurdle IIRC. We've not been brilliant in Europe by any means but we've been marginally better than Everton since football began.

Although I see us as pretty much similar size to everton we have finished below them 8 of the last 9 seasons - I thought they would struggle under Martinez but the loans of lukaku and Barry have made a huge difference.

[paul_e]

Well I have been going down Villa Park nearly 58 years and supporters of my longevity tend to forget that most of you posting were not even born when we won the European Cup or the fabulous charge up from the old third division. One or two of you see Aston Villa FC through rose coloured spectacles as if nothing is ever wrong either with the players or the manager but nothing is ever perfect at any club in the world and you have to take the good times with the bad.

Things may improve under Lambert but not to the point where we become a force to be reckoned with Im afraid. This is because Mr Lerner is still counting the dimes and for all we know that will carry on until he sells up . Our one hope is that some oil rich sultan buys him out and puts considerable capital into the club. Then we have a chance.

We are seen at the moment as a club on the same level as Hull/Sunderland/West Brom and yes Stoke.

Many supporters of other clubs do not know what the European Cup was, They only know about the Champions League and Sky,Sky,Sky.

Most have heard of Benteke due to his exploits in the second half of last season when we were anything but boring. But no one up front is showing this season...so far.

We are doing alright in an understated way but at some point in the future our absent Chairman will have to get his guitar out and sing to himself (in his darkened room) "Shall I stay or shall I go?"

I think we know the answer!

I just don't understand the "counting his dimes" comment at all.  We've spent £40~m in 18months, that doesn't sound like an owner who's too busy counting his money.  Yes he wants to bring the wages down to a point where the club can handle them but that's just basic common sense, if you're owner has to dig in his pocket to pay the running costs every year you've got major issues.

The bad spending in previous years has meant that money has had to be spread around a lot of players to get us a squad Lambert is happy with.  Given that if you want to level anything at Lerner it should be that he allowed mon to spend too much on the wrong players.

If we don't become a force to be reckoned with it's not because Lerner isn't spending enough but more because the nature of the PL and CL mean that the teams who are established there have to fuck up massively to fall out of it (see Liverpool) and there has to be a team with lots of money waiting to step in (Man City) because the drawing power and spending power of the sides in the top 4 is just too big a gap.

Most non-villa fans form their opinion of the club based on the press, and since MON flounced off that opinion was incredibly negative for a few years, sadly a lot of our own fans have been drawn into the same negativity.  We've got a much more promising squad than some people are willing to give us credit for and to be where we are after the start to the season we had is a perfectly reasonable achievement.  We have a run until Christmas where we should be looking to get a fair few points.  If that happens people will start to take notice a little more, which is fine for fans of other clubs but for our own fans to be so down on us is pretty frustrating.

I probably have a reputation for being one of the overly optimistic people on here but I'm not saying everything is perfect and I don't expect it to be, but my expectations are much more grounded than a lot of the negative people on here have been for the last 2-3 years.  I see a lot of positives but I know there are negatives as well, and I accept them, some of the doom-mongers need to do the same in reverse rather than trying to shit all over any post that's happy with how things are.