Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Ads on November 20, 2013, 04:25:28 PM
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There is a bit of sub-discussion going on in the match thread and rather than derail from that, it seems to be an interesting enough topic to be worthy of its own thread. Perhaps a Mod could transfer over some of the comments? Perhaps I should stop making demands of the Mods? All valid questions.
The premise stems from a bit of an off the cuff "funny" report in the Mirror on where the Villa stand in the current pecking order, which describes us as boring. I think we're anything but boring. As the case with the Frazier Nelson column in the Telegraph about the city as a whole being a misguided and stereotypical hatchet job, based on London centric media ignorance, so too is this opinion of Aston Villa.
I have found Lambert's reign exciting thus far. Sometimes this excitement has manifested itself in an "oh no, my brakes don't work!" sort of way, but it's been exciting nonetheless.
I like the approach we have taken with building a young squad with a core ethos running through the side that leads me to believe the players genuinely want to be here. I look at the likes of Bacuna, Okre, Delph et al and I am genuinely excited by their potential.
Last season was one of the most bizarre affairs I can think of. How do you go from smashing 4 past Norwich, 3 past Liverpool, to getting walloped heavily in three successive games after? How do you conspire to lose to a 4th division outfit, after smacking Man City in an earlier round?
It makes no sense. It was great, it was awful. It wasn't boring.
Boring for me implies a dreary predictability; we're anything but predictable. We're not always going to get it right and this season we have seen in recent games a struggle for goals and openings, but we're learning and those expecting a counsel of perfection are wrong.
For me, the boring tag was applicable in the latter days of Gregory and in the middle season of O'Leary's reign. 2004/05 was as tediously forgettable as any season I can think of, sandwiched in between a very good tilt at the Champions League places and a relegation battle.
McLeish played the worst football I have ever seen at the Villa and I suppose a boring tag might seem applicable in retrospect, although at the time I was lost if a maelstrom of despair at just where we were heading to.
But this Villa team, boring? A team than can give the side currently running away with the league a good hiding on their own patch? That can better Chelsea at Stamford Bridge, only to be Kevin Friended? That have players who can win matches with effortless free-kicks? That has one of the best out and out centre forwards in Europe bullying all and sundry? Ok.
We should all be craving some boringness, some cosy mid-table stability, wrapped in a blanket of 1-0 home wins and 1-0 away defeats. Sat in yawn inducing mediocrity where we are able to say with a nigh on certainty "we'll win this 1-0. We'll keep a clean sheet here". Not with this Villa.
I don't think anybody is suggesting we're as good a side as we had in the late 70's or under Saunders or Atkinson or Little- far from it. But success and excitement are not exclusive bedfellows. See George Grahams Arsenal. Hopefully Lambert is building something that can see us competing in the league where we would hope to be or winning a trophy or two, but to say we're boring while we stumble around with the likes of West Brom? Nah.
If we were boring, you'd be able to tell me what is going to happen on the 25th. I hope we'll win, scratch that, I hope we smash them. But then we're as likely to score four, as concede four, as to grind something out as to be ground out.
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Interesting to note you say you thought lamberts reign has been very exciting in the match thread but now it's only exciting ?
Unpredictable would best describe it , with high and lows along the way but far from very exciting - indeed some of the football especially at home has been turgid in the extreme ., whilst on our day we can be extremely good to watch .
Are we boring - sometimes
Are we exciting- sometimes .
Given the choice of top 6 and Gregory type football or what we have seen under lambert I would take the 1-0 wins and top 6 personally.
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The press generally pay little attnetion to us, so will just see a few 0-0s and other low scoring games and come to the 'boring' conclusion. In fairness we possibly have been during this recent patch, but over the course of 38 games I think we'll provide good value for money entertainment wise.
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You know my views Ads and a good idea to get a separate thread going. I say at the macro level we are though you can highlight examples of excitement down at the micro level of individual games. If I had to rank the decades I have been watching the Villa, this decade would be bottom of the pile (my first game was circa 1971). If I had to rank periods of five years, again this would be down near the bottom. However, I'm willing to admit that my increasingly old git stance and the fact that most football bores me these days - I can't stay awake during an England match and fast forward through most of MOTD quite frequently - has something to do with it!
Certainly, as I said elsewhere, other fans I meet think we're boring and worse, an irrelevance. I'd like to say that doesn't matter but it hurts you know to sit in a pub with a load of cockney Spurs fans and see them treat us that way. The only player they'd heard of was Benteke. We just don't really seem to have a say in things anymore and I could weep sometimes when I watch clips from the Villa Memories thread
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I imagine a passing neutral might come to that conclusion due to our always being around in the PL era but rarely actually doing much to grab their attention.
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I imagine a passing neutral might come to that conclusion due to our always being around in the PL era but rarely actually doing much to grab their attention.
That's not true. We've done as much if not more than the likes of Tottenham have done in the PL era, but I think people are judging us on where we're at right now, and let's face it we're a non entity at the moment. I look at this forum and see stuff that "Ads" (and others) post about us being "exciting" but I find myself shaking my head in disbelief. I think this is one of the poorest era of Villa teams I've ever seen and so do most if not all of my mates and work colleagues think as well. I just can't see it when I'm told we're "exciting".
Perhaps I'm just having a mid life crisis and I'm a grumpy old git, but I find Villa under Lambert boring, and we've become a team who are just happy to make up the numbers.
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I imagine a passing neutral might come to that conclusion due to our always being around in the PL era but rarely actually doing much to grab their attention.
That's not true. We've done as much if not more than the likes of Tottenham have done in the PL era, but I think people are judging us on where we're at right now, and let's face it we're a non entity at the moment. I look at this forum and see stuff that "Ads" (and others) post about us being "exciting" but I find myself shaking my head in disbelief. I think this is one of the poorest era of Villa teams I've ever seen and so do most if not all of my mates and work colleagues think as well. I just can't see it when I'm told we're "exciting".
Perhaps I'm just having a mid life crisis and I'm a grumpy old git, but I find Villa under Lambert boring, and we've become a team who are just happy to make up the numbers.
I agree totally, which won't surprise anyone. As I said above, I only have to spend about 10 minutes on the Villa Memories thread to be reminded that everything you have said here, for me, is true. But I'm probably having the same latter mid life crisis as you (I'm 51 and 52 next week, be warned Villa always lose on or around my birthday, you see you can't even rely on them for that. Perhaps that makes them exciting after all!!!)
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Why is my name in-between bunny ears? Does your disbelief stretch to my existence?
As stated, the initial premise was that we are boring. I don’t think we’re middling, I think we’re barmy and erratic, which is an exciting combination and yet an equally terrifying and maddening one too.
Your critique of the side is incredibly harsh and has been for a number of years, sometimes that criticism is justified, often in my opinion its not. Our quality is not the topic of discussion though, it is whether we are boring.
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Why is my name in-between bunny ears? Does your disbelief stretch to my existence?
As stated, the initial premise was that we are boring. I don’t think we’re middling, I think we’re barmy and erratic, which is an exciting combination and yet an equally terrifying and maddening one too.
Your critique of the side is incredibly harsh and has been for a number of years, sometimes that criticism is justified, often in my opinion its not. Our quality is not the topic of discussion though, it is whether we are boring.
Maybe he's just missing bunny from stoke :)
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In between bunny ears???!!! Can I have whatever you're on Ads?! What are you on about....
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I look at this forum and see stuff that "Ads" (and others) post about us being "exciting" but I find myself shaking my head in disbelief.
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Why is my name in-between bunny ears? Does your disbelief stretch to my existence?
As stated, the initial premise was that we are boring. I don’t think we’re middling, I think we’re barmy and erratic, which is an exciting combination and yet an equally terrifying and maddening one too.
Your critique of the side is incredibly harsh and has been for a number of years, sometimes that criticism is justified, often in my opinion its not. Our quality is not the topic of discussion though, it is whether we are boring.
My criticism of Villa started as soon as we started to go backwards. What's so shocking about that? I'm entitled to my opinion and I'll continue to give it. To me your description of this Villa team as "exciting" is just bizarre as I find this era under Lambert and Lerner one of the dullest periods ever. No offence but you come across as a message board version of the sort of dressed up nonsense the official site comes up with on a daily basis.
By the way I meant nothing when I quoted your username. It was just a way of highlighting your name.
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I wouldn't say we're exciting. I wouldn't say we're boring either.
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I wouldn't say we're exciting. I wouldn't say we're boring either.
Spot on.
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Why is my name in-between bunny ears? Does your disbelief stretch to my existence?
As stated, the initial premise was that we are boring. I don’t think we’re middling, I think we’re barmy and erratic, which is an exciting combination and yet an equally terrifying and maddening one too.
Your critique of the side is incredibly harsh and has been for a number of years, sometimes that criticism is justified, often in my opinion its not. Our quality is not the topic of discussion though, it is whether we are boring.
My criticism of Villa started as soon as we started to go backwards. What's so shocking about that? I'm entitled to my opinion and I'll continue to give it. To me your description of this Villa team as "exciting" is just bizarre as I find this era under Lambert and Lerner one of the dullest periods ever. No offence but you come across as a message board version of the sort of dressed up nonsense the official site comes up with on a daily basis.
By the way I meant nothing when I quoted your username. It was just a way of highlighting your name.
Dull why?
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There seem to be a fair few games under lambert where we have struggled to have even a shot on target so I can see why some are far from comvinced we are exciting .
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" = bunny ears - imagine someone doing air quotes.
As far as I'm concerned the people like "s_h" who find us boring are generally never happy with the club. Under MON getting the results were ok but we were shit to watch, last year when we were scoring for fun after Christmas we were shit because we couldn't keep a clean sheet. This season we're tighter in defence and have beaten a couple of very good sides and again we play shit football.
If your requirements for us to be anything other than boring and shit are to play great football, score loads and hardly concede any then you're running a risk of always being dissappointed.
As for are we boring, I think we scored 8-9 superb goals last season and we've scored 2-3 of those this year as well so there are definitely exciting moments there. We also break with great pace and open teams up brilliantly at times. However, with the lack of goals until the Cardiff game I can understand people calling us boring, I just don't see it, we're no more or less boring than probably 14-15 other teams in the league, and we have a better highlights reel.
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Interesting to note you say you thought lamberts reign has been very exciting in the match thread but now it's only exciting ?
Unpredictable would best describe it , with high and lows along the way but far from very exciting - indeed some of the football especially at home has been turgid in the extreme ., whilst on our day we can be extremely good to watch .
Are we boring - sometimes
Are we exciting- sometimes .
Given the choice of top 6 and Gregory type football or what we have seen under lambert I would take the 1-0 wins and top 6 personally.
i will second that
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In between bunny ears???!!! Can I have whatever you're on Ads?! What are you on about....
It's a joke from Modern Family to symbolise the hand signal people make when signifying a word is between speech marks. Trust me it's funny in context.
On topic, I think the "project" [bunny ears] Lambert has undertaken is endlessly exciting because it provides a glimmer of hope that the club can unlock it's potential. I suppose hope is the key word there.
On the flip side, as we've become a better team we've become less exciting to watch on a typical match by match, primarily because we have slightly more control of the game. To a neutral this is all they'll see, They're not aware of the exciting project which is going on.
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It would help if we we relocated to London but then again the PL are being asked for ideas to improve the atmosphere at grounds and the 3 in biggest need seem to be Chelsea,Arsenal and Spurs whose fans have been berated by their own manager.Top 6 not good enough ?
The biggest problem is the cash cow that is the Champions League which almost makes the top 4 an exclusive inner circle and the payments from the PL which again reward those clubs.To break into the top 4 is extremely hard ,to win a trophy has become more difficult .
Before the Premiership,top 4 finishes and trophies weren't limited to a few clubs and also fans weren't given a weekly TV diet of the 'super teams '.
Present day football is of a high standard and more attractive than I can remember( going back to the 60s) but the unpredictability is being reduced.The PL is not far away from being dominated by a few sides ,like the Scottish,Dutch and Spanish Leagues,and that is worse than boring,it means teams like Villa,Everton ,Newcastle,Sunderland etc find it difficult to compete with the elite in the league that is ,however,famed for its competitive nature
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It's not been pretty this season at times to be honest. That said as an outfit we look far more capable of grinding out a result. I think Lambo realised that last season we seemed to have mission to try and outscore the opposition. We could expect to lose 3-2 one week, perhaps win 3-2 the next. That's kind of what we suspected would be the Lambo way when he came in. It didn't start that way, we were largely wretched at both ends. Then we found an effective way to score goals from Jan onwards, and our front three were effective (Benteke was immense of course).
That's not a sustainable way to play though. Unless you're blessed with fantastic attacking quality, which working on a budget like we are, is unlikely, it will lead to relegation battles most times. So yeah, we were good to watch feb-May but we needed to address our defence badly. We've done that, somewhat at the expense of our attacking play, but there have been other factors in that too, like injuries and form to key players, and teams working us out.
Good teams on the whole will build from the back. A solid base is required then you can improve up the other end. You can't concede 2 goals a game and expect to win more than you lose. Won't happen. So the defence must be solid. Now, it seems, it is.
We've been pretty horrific to watch at times this season, in terms of attractive football. Entirely boring? No. Mostly? Probably. But for me, we're in a better situation than we were last season, because we appear to have a solid defensive base. Once we find a good attacking balance, we'll improve the spectacle on offer.
The games against City, Arsenal and Chelsea certainly weren't boring. The games against Liverpool, Hull and West Ham were sleep inducing. Against Newcastle just plain painful to watch.
But the seeds are there. We've got the makings of a solid side. A good side? Not sure, but a solid side. 2-3 quality signings could move us up a level. The midfield is the weakness right now. We lack quality. Get that, and with our keeper, defence and striker, we've got the potential to be nipping at the heels of the top 7.
Personally I'm also with Eastie. I'd take top 6 and a not particularly attractive brand of football like we had under JG, or even arguably O Neill. In truth, at our best under O Neill I thought we played great football. It wasn't Barca but in it's own way, great to watch when the likes of Ash, Gabby, Carew and Milner were in full flow. Whilst our team may not be the most attractive to watch we should consider we still have the mercurial talent of Benteke, who on his day can light a game up all by himself. Gabby when he's at his full flow is unstoppable, so there's plenty of excitement in the unpredictability we have at the club still.
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" = bunny ears - imagine someone doing air quotes.
As far as I'm concerned the people like "s_h" who find us boring are generally never happy with the club. Under MON getting the results were ok but we were shit to watch, last year when we were scoring for fun after Christmas we were shit because we couldn't keep a clean sheet. This season we're tighter in defence and have beaten a couple of very good sides and again we play shit football.
If your requirements for us to be anything other than boring and shit are to play great football, score loads and hardly concede any then you're running a risk of always being dissappointed.
As for are we boring, I think we scored 8-9 superb goals last season and we've scored 2-3 of those this year as well so there are definitely exciting moments there. We also break with great pace and open teams up brilliantly at times. However, with the lack of goals until the Cardiff game I can understand people calling us boring, I just don't see it, we're no more or less boring than probably 14-15 other teams in the league, and we have a better highlights reel.
Just because I'm not happy with the Villa now doesn't mean I've never been happy with us before or again in the future. I'm not a nodding dog, and if I'm unhappy with Villa I'll let it be known.
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“Saunders Heroes” has set an overlapping time frame which for him capsulates boredom. 2006 to present, with overlap of 2012-present. To avoid confusion, these are opinions based on seeing the games rather than reading propaganda, just in case there is confusion over the providence of my nonsensical opinion.
These are just a few things that strike me as being anything other than dull;
In that time I have seen us win an away game in Europe in a full competition. I have seen us win away in the preliminary rounds, but my European away day following started in Madrid and in all that time, I have not seen us win an away game. Plenty of draws and enough defeats. I found that exciting.
* We competed at the right end of the table for three of those four years.
* We challenged for trophies, albeit fleetingly.
* We have been witness to the most bizarre and muddled management of succession possibly in the clubs history as we lurched from Houllier to McLeish.
* We seriously diced with relegation on two occasions and managed to pull clear before the end on a third to finish a flattering 9th.
* With a 12 month absence, we have become a very good away side and are more than capable of going anywhere in the country and beating anybody.
* We have a manager who is a reckless gambler, offering unpredictable line-ups, formations.
I don’t think we’re dull. I find a genuine pleasure in watching this Aston Villa side and have only ever been unfortunate enough to question my belief coming back from a Norwich defeat under McLiesh.
I thought we were incredibly boring under Gregory. I think the FA Cup final typified the era and was one of the greatest disappointments of recent times, that all we could summon after nearly 50 years of waiting was that tedious performance? Would that team beat this one? Probably, but it would be a tedious affair.
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I wouldn't say we're boring, just dreary.
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Just because I'm not happy with the Villa now doesn't mean I've never been happy with us before or again in the future. I'm not a nodding dog, and if I'm unhappy with Villa I'll let it be known.
... and just because its not always raining in my world does not make me a mouthpiece, sprouting nonsensical opinion or incapable of independent thought. Neither does being a misery arse equate to being a sage.
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Interesting to note you say you thought lamberts reign has been very exciting in the match thread but now it's only exciting ?
Unpredictable would best describe it , with high and lows along the way but far from very exciting - indeed some of the football especially at home has been turgid in the extreme ., whilst on our day we can be extremely good to watch .
Are we boring - sometimes
Are we exciting- sometimes .
Given the choice of top 6 and Gregory type football or what we have seen under lambert I would take the 1-0 wins and top 6 personally.
i will second that
I think I'm the opposite (if I'm understanding you correctly). I'd prefer that lambert (or whoever) tries a different approach that *might* help us leap from also rans to a genuine title contenders rather than the Gregory approach (see also MON and TSM) of spunking lots of money on established players knowing that there is a ceiling to what can be achieved.
As part of Lambert's philosophy there is bound to be a degree of chaos involved as he's choosing the harder route/option but the rewards are potentially much greater.
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I think (bunny ears)Ads(bunny ears) should write for the OS. They could do with another "everything's smashing" outlet on there.
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We occasionally - at the moment - put in a terrible performance that would merit the description "dull", but we're generally not dull at all.
We've been a managerial soap opera for several years and now have a promising yet highly unpredictable team mostly made up of young players, which is likely to either do great things for us, or get us relegated, I don't think there's going to be much in-between.
We've also got a manager who flits betweenthe roles of solid, ambitious young boss / trusting svengali for young players and gung-ho 9 strikers mentalist.
That's not dull.
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I think (bunny ears)Ads(bunny ears) should write for the OS. They could do with another "everything's smashing" outlet on there.
By which measure, you should get a gig filling in for Franksy.
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Just because I'm not happy with the Villa now doesn't mean I've never been happy with us before or again in the future. I'm not a nodding dog, and if I'm unhappy with Villa I'll let it be known.
... and just because its not always raining in my world does not make me a mouthpiece, sprouting nonsensical opinion or incapable of independent thought. Neither does being a misery arse equate to being a sage.
Just because I disagreed with a poster on here who claimed this Villa team is exciting doesn't mean that it's always raining in my world. And no need for the personal insult either.
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“Saunders Heroes” has set an overlapping time frame which for him capsulates boredom. 2006 to present, with overlap of 2012-present. To avoid confusion, these are opinions based on seeing the games rather than reading propaganda, just in case there is confusion over the providence of my nonsensical opinion.
These are just a few things that strike me as being anything other than dull;
In that time I have seen us win an away game in Europe in a full competition. I have seen us win away in the preliminary rounds, but my European away day following started in Madrid and in all that time, I have not seen us win an away game. Plenty of draws and enough defeats. I found that exciting.
* We competed at the right end of the table for three of those four years.
* We challenged for trophies, albeit fleetingly.
* We have been witness to the most bizarre and muddled management of succession possibly in the clubs history as we lurched from Houllier to McLeish.
* We seriously diced with relegation on two occasions and managed to pull clear before the end on a third to finish a flattering 9th.
* With a 12 month absence, we have become a very good away side and are more than capable of going anywhere in the country and beating anybody.
* We have a manager who is a reckless gambler, offering unpredictable line-ups, formations.
I don’t think we’re dull. I find a genuine pleasure in watching this Aston Villa side and have only ever been unfortunate enough to question my belief coming back from a Norwich defeat under McLiesh.
I thought we were incredibly boring under Gregory. I think the FA Cup final typified the era and was one of the greatest disappointments of recent times, that all we could summon after nearly 50 years of waiting was that tedious performance? Would that team beat this one? Probably, but it would be a tedious affair.
So I take it you have been a follower since the mid 90s ads?
The reason i ask is that maybe you find the football exciting in comparison to the likes of Gregory, o Leary, Mcleish etc whereas some older fans may be thinking of exciting as being the eras of the 70s and 80s during which we played some top top football at times - never to be forgotten.
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I feel like we've got the potential to kick on. Under McLeish it was just horrifically boring and it all seemed utterly hopeless. Had he stayed he'd have taken us down the following year.
We've seen both sides of the coin now with Lambert. We've seen a side that looked like it could score every game and looked fantastic in attack at times. We've now also seen a side very resolute that can grind out results and are pretty solid at the back.
Can he get our attack looking more effective again? Of course he can. Some of the football we played Feb-May was some of the best I've witnessed since being a fan (90 onwards). Benteke is the most exciting CF we've had since Yorke. I've no doubts that once we get players back from injury, and others back in form, like Westwood and Lowton who were key for us last season, that we'll see more attractive football again.
Will our defense remain so resolute? Who knows. I'm sure we'll have the odd unsightly game now, but I feel assured we're well past seeing a run of results like we saw midway through last season. Shipping 15 goals in 3 games was horrific.
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I think (bunny ears)Ads(bunny ears) should write for the OS. They could do with another "everything's smashing" outlet on there.
By which measure, you should get a gig filling in for Franksy.
What's that supposed to mean?
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I really enjoy following the Villa. It routinely makes me angry, but I am not bored by it. You think I am talking nonsense and a talking shop like the website, I don't think that has anything to do with whether the Villa are boring.
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Interesting to note you say you thought lamberts reign has been very exciting in the match thread but now it's only exciting ?
Unpredictable would best describe it , with high and lows along the way but far from very exciting - indeed some of the football especially at home has been turgid in the extreme ., whilst on our day we can be extremely good to watch .
Are we boring - sometimes
Are we exciting- sometimes .
Given the choice of top 6 and Gregory type football or what we have seen under lambert I would take the 1-0 wins and top 6 personally.
i will second that
I think I'm the opposite (if I'm understanding you correctly). I'd prefer that lambert (or whoever) tries a different approach that *might* help us leap from also rans to a genuine title contenders rather than the Gregory approach (see also MON and TSM) of spunking lots of money on established players knowing that there is a ceiling to what can be achieved.
As part of Lambert's philosophy there is bound to be a degree of chaos involved as he's choosing the harder route/option but the rewards are potentially much greater.
There is no might about it for me - not a chance in hell of lambert turning us into title contenders!
Possibly in time he may have us competing for top 6 but title contenders - no .
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Just because I'm not happy with the Villa now doesn't mean I've never been happy with us before or again in the future. I'm not a nodding dog, and if I'm unhappy with Villa I'll let it be known.
... and just because its not always raining in my world does not make me a mouthpiece, sprouting nonsensical opinion or incapable of independent thought. Neither does being a misery arse equate to being a sage.
Just because I disagreed with a poster on here who claimed this Villa team is exciting doesn't mean that it's always raining in my world. And no need for the personal insult either.
Sorry, I should have prefixed it with "no offence" as you did, before going on to cause offence.
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“Saunders Heroes” has set an overlapping time frame which for him capsulates boredom. 2006 to present, with overlap of 2012-present. To avoid confusion, these are opinions based on seeing the games rather than reading propaganda, just in case there is confusion over the providence of my nonsensical opinion.
These are just a few things that strike me as being anything other than dull;
In that time I have seen us win an away game in Europe in a full competition. I have seen us win away in the preliminary rounds, but my European away day following started in Madrid and in all that time, I have not seen us win an away game. Plenty of draws and enough defeats. I found that exciting.
* We competed at the right end of the table for three of those four years.
* We challenged for trophies, albeit fleetingly.
* We have been witness to the most bizarre and muddled management of succession possibly in the clubs history as we lurched from Houllier to McLeish.
* We seriously diced with relegation on two occasions and managed to pull clear before the end on a third to finish a flattering 9th.
* With a 12 month absence, we have become a very good away side and are more than capable of going anywhere in the country and beating anybody.
* We have a manager who is a reckless gambler, offering unpredictable line-ups, formations.
I don’t think we’re dull. I find a genuine pleasure in watching this Aston Villa side and have only ever been unfortunate enough to question my belief coming back from a Norwich defeat under McLiesh.
I thought we were incredibly boring under Gregory. I think the FA Cup final typified the era and was one of the greatest disappointments of recent times, that all we could summon after nearly 50 years of waiting was that tedious performance? Would that team beat this one? Probably, but it would be a tedious affair.
So I take it you have been a follower since the mid 90s ads?
The reason i ask is that maybe you find the football exciting in comparison to the likes of Gregory, o Leary, Mcleish etc whereas some older fans may be thinking of exciting as being the eras of the 70s and 80s during which we played some top top football at times - never to be forgotten.
I am 27 years old and have been following the Villa for 23 years and had a season ticket for 21 of those years.
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I really enjoy following the Villa. It routinely makes me angry, but I am not bored by it. You think I am talking nonsense and a talking shop like the website, I don't think that has anything to do with whether the Villa are boring.
I also enjoy watching Villa and always will do. That doesn't mean I should be a nodding dog and accept everything thrown at me. If I don't like something I'll say it. What's so unacceptable about that?
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I think (bunny ears)Ads(bunny ears) should write for the OS. They could do with another "everything's smashing" outlet on there.
By which measure, you should get a gig filling in for Franksy.
What's that supposed to mean?
It means that if you're going to paint him in terms of being so optimistic he should be writing for the OS (with that being the height of fluffy optimism), on the basis that he's the optimistic type, I am suggesting you should get yourself a gig doing Franksy's job on WM (the height of doomishness), what with you being on the miserablist side
I am basically suggesting that if you're going to stick a label on him based on an exaggeration of his standpoint, maybe you should expect people to do the same to you, based on yours.
Which is what I just did. And I bet you like it about as much as he did.
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I think (bunny ears)Ads(bunny ears) should write for the OS. They could do with another "everything's smashing" outlet on there.
By which measure, you should get a gig filling in for Franksy.
What's that supposed to mean?
Who cares?! Apologies for being rude but lets not side track a good thread by getting personal/taking it off topic.
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Just because I'm not happy with the Villa now doesn't mean I've never been happy with us before or again in the future. I'm not a nodding dog, and if I'm unhappy with Villa I'll let it be known.
... and just because its not always raining in my world does not make me a mouthpiece, sprouting nonsensical opinion or incapable of independent thought. Neither does being a misery arse equate to being a sage.
Just because I disagreed with a poster on here who claimed this Villa team is exciting doesn't mean that it's always raining in my world. And no need for the personal insult either.
Sorry, I should have prefixed it with "no offence" as you did, before going on to cause offence.
Well perhaps you shouldn't have called me a "misery arse" then.
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“Saunders Heroes” has set an overlapping time frame which for him capsulates boredom. 2006 to present, with overlap of 2012-present. To avoid confusion, these are opinions based on seeing the games rather than reading propaganda, just in case there is confusion over the providence of my nonsensical opinion.
These are just a few things that strike me as being anything other than dull;
In that time I have seen us win an away game in Europe in a full competition. I have seen us win away in the preliminary rounds, but my European away day following started in Madrid and in all that time, I have not seen us win an away game. Plenty of draws and enough defeats. I found that exciting.
* We competed at the right end of the table for three of those four years.
* We challenged for trophies, albeit fleetingly.
* We have been witness to the most bizarre and muddled management of succession possibly in the clubs history as we lurched from Houllier to McLeish.
* We seriously diced with relegation on two occasions and managed to pull clear before the end on a third to finish a flattering 9th.
* With a 12 month absence, we have become a very good away side and are more than capable of going anywhere in the country and beating anybody.
* We have a manager who is a reckless gambler, offering unpredictable line-ups, formations.
I don’t think we’re dull. I find a genuine pleasure in watching this Aston Villa side and have only ever been unfortunate enough to question my belief coming back from a Norwich defeat under McLiesh.
I thought we were incredibly boring under Gregory. I think the FA Cup final typified the era and was one of the greatest disappointments of recent times, that all we could summon after nearly 50 years of waiting was that tedious performance? Would that team beat this one? Probably, but it would be a tedious affair.
So I take it you have been a follower since the mid 90s ads?
The reason i ask is that maybe you find the football exciting in comparison to the likes of Gregory, o Leary, Mcleish etc whereas some older fans may be thinking of exciting as being the eras of the 70s and 80s during which we played some top top football at times - never to be forgotten.
I am 27 years old and have been following the Villa for 23 years and had a season ticket for 21 of those years.
Good man - I hope during your time with us you get to see a really successful villa side winning trophies - we all deserve those days again some day .
So you were 5 when big ron took over - I guess in comparison over the last 15 years ago today's football could be seen as exciting so I get where you at coming from in that sense.
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I think (bunny ears)Ads(bunny ears) should write for the OS. They could do with another "everything's smashing" outlet on there.
By which measure, you should get a gig filling in for Franksy.
What's that supposed to mean?
It means that if you're going to paint him in terms of being so optimistic he should be writing for the OS (with that being the height of fluffy optimism), on the basis that he's the optimistic type, I am suggesting you should get yourself a gig doing Franksy's job on WM (the height of doomishness), what with you being on the miserablist side
I am basically suggesting that if you're going to stick a label on him based on an exaggeration of his standpoint, maybe you should expect people to do the same to you, based on yours.
Which is what I just did. And I bet you like it about as much as he did.
Response of the night.
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Interesting to note you say you thought lamberts reign has been very exciting in the match thread but now it's only exciting ?
Unpredictable would best describe it , with high and lows along the way but far from very exciting - indeed some of the football especially at home has been turgid in the extreme ., whilst on our day we can be extremely good to watch .
Are we boring - sometimes
Are we exciting- sometimes .
Given the choice of top 6 and Gregory type football or what we have seen under lambert I would take the 1-0 wins and top 6 personally.
i will second that
I think I'm the opposite (if I'm understanding you correctly). I'd prefer that lambert (or whoever) tries a different approach that *might* help us leap from also rans to a genuine title contenders rather than the Gregory approach (see also MON and TSM) of spunking lots of money on established players knowing that there is a ceiling to what can be achieved.
As part of Lambert's philosophy there is bound to be a degree of chaos involved as he's choosing the harder route/option but the rewards are potentially much greater.
There is no might about it for me - not a chance in hell of lambert turning us into title contenders!
Possibly in time he may have us competing for top 6 but title contenders - no .
No I don't think he will get us to being actual contenders either, BUT under the Gregory/MON route, the finances would have always scuppered our plans, basically because we were spending beyond our means.
Whereas with Lambert (once the dead wood is removed) we could have a solid mid-table squad (say 7 - 10th) but with profit/wages available to expand beyond the 6th place ceiling we have reached previously.
Ultimately this provides me with hope, which I think makes Villa quite an exciting club right now. Knowing that it could go tits up and we could end up in a relegation battle just adds to the drama for me.
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I think (bunny ears)Ads(bunny ears) should write for the OS. They could do with another "everything's smashing" outlet on there.
By which measure, you should get a gig filling in for Franksy.
What's that supposed to mean?
Who cares?! Apologies for being rude but lets not side track a good thread by getting personal/taking it off topic.
Well said , a good thread developing here - no need for anyone to get personal - some good posters making good points on both sides.
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I wouldn't have been angered into posting that if your first contribution to the thread hadn't been to describe my opinion as nonsense and akin to propaganda.
I am more interested in why you think we're dull than continuing the he started it gig.
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(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSjwDdpmRrAIJxl08_W6kFw1xwflcRRhVTXz7A1v9PBSaVR5xnVig)
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I think its clear that there is no real agreement on what is boring and what is not. I think it is completely seperate from the quality of football, for example, Wigan were a pretty exciting side, but utterly hopeless.
I am not saying we are a quality outfit in the context of Villa sides of years gone by, but I think that is seperate from excitement. Excitement isn't the reserve of the elite.
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I think its clear that there is no real agreement on what is boring and what is not. I think it is completely seperate from the quality of football, for example, Wigan were a pretty exciting side, but utterly hopeless.
I am not saying we are a quality outfit in the context of Villa sides of years gone by, but I think that is seperate from excitement. Excitement isn't the reserve of the elite.
Boring was the Mcleish era of sending a team out not to get beaten rather than sending a team out to win .
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I wouldn't have been angered into posting that if your first contribution to the thread hadn't been to describe my opinion as nonsense and akin to propaganda.
I am more interested in why you think we're dull than continuing the he started it gig.
Well I apologise for calling your opinions nonsense.
As for the dull stuff, our home form in my opinion is just unacceptable. It's not just the results that disappoint it's the surrendering of so much possession that I find so frustrating. I can't remember a Villa team see so little of the ball, and I find that dull and boring. I'm not the only one either.
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More often that not I find us exciting to watch at away games.
More often than not I find us boring to watch at home games.
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These last couple of years will not be looked on as a golden era in 15/20 years, I'd have thought. Unless we truly hit the skids and plummet through the divisions.
Dull would be an apt as description as any, we're one of a number of teams happy just to stay in the top flight now. Something the likes of Coventry and Southampton did year in and year out. Neutrals weren't too enamoured with them either.
If you think that's harsh, you might want to explain our team selection in the cup game at home to Tottenham - the one domestic trophy we might have had a half decent chance of actually winning.
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More often that not I find us exciting to watch at away games.
More often than not I find us boring to watch at home games.
I think that has been the case right back through the MON years, even when we were doing well.
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I wouldn't have been angered into posting that if your first contribution to the thread hadn't been to describe my opinion as nonsense and akin to propaganda.
I am more interested in why you think we're dull than continuing the he started it gig.
Well I apologise for calling your opinions nonsense.
As for the dull stuff, our home form in my opinion is just unacceptable. It's not just the results that disappoint it's the surrendering of so much possession that I find so frustrating. I can't remember a Villa team see so little of the ball, and I find that dull and boring. I'm not the only one either.
I see you both as extreme opposites to be honest where the answer lies somewhere in the middle - ads in my opinion is over optimistic and sh over pessimistic at time but no doubt we all want the same thing .
We are neither exciting or boring overall - but can be both in patches - sometimes in the same game.
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I wouldn't say we're boring, just dreary.
Indeed. If I was a neutral football fan I wouldn't watch us on a live TV game. Life's too short for other people's problems. The few minutes on MOTD would be more than enough, especially as we can score some spectacular goals. The problem is the other 89 minutes of nothingness. Entertaining is not a word closely associated with Aston Villa.
Saying that, I am a Villa fan and enjoy our victories in the same way I did under MON, if not more so. The difference is I still hold onto the belief that Lambert is capable of turning us into a good, entertaining side, something I never felt with MON or TSM. There's a lot of work still to be done but at least there are glimpses of it. As I've mentioned several times, Lambert, like his young and hungry new recruits, is still learning the game so I'm prepared to give him some time to get it right. I'd just be a lot more happy if he was getting the basics right.
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Good thread, nothing I have read has convinced me we are not in the boring, or dull, or dreary descriptor (semantics I fear!)
So I'm still with Supertom in sharing his views and am shocked, quite honestly, that so many people think otherwise. A salutory lesson for your's truly!
I still feel the outside football world sees us as dull and, largely, irrelevant. As I said earlier, I'd love to think I didn't care what they think, but sadly I do...
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I wouldn't say we're boring, just dreary.
Indeed. If I was a neutral football fan I wouldn't watch us on a live TV game.
I know what you're getting at, but that's surely a bit too sweeping?
If i had been a neutral, this season I'd have enjoyed watching us in the Arsenal and Chelsea games, and for half of the Man City game.
So, basically a quarter of our matches.
Meh, I dunno, maybe you've got a point.
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Yes, know what you mean. I will be in the pub in Chichester on Monday to see us against you know who and I guarantee I'll be one of about three people watching it. I watched the two Bradford games last season in different pubs in London and Chichester, and on both occasions, I was the only single person looking at the television. As I said, others don't go out of their way for one minute to watch us and that has to be some sort of barometer for me
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There are few teams I'd go out of my way to watch to be honest - mrs east often asks me if I want the downstairs remote at weekends to watch games on tv and probably I'd watch arsenal but try to avoid most of the others unless it was a big game - sometimes I have it on but pay little attention .
If a neutral i would guess villa would be seen as like Norwich, Fulham, west ham etc. and not a particularly exciting watch.
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Yes, know what you mean. I will be in the pub in Chichester on Monday to see us against you know who and I guarantee I'll be one of about three people watching it. I watched the two Bradford games last season in different pubs in London and Chichester, and on both occasions, I was the only single person looking at the television. As I said, others don't go out of their way for one minute to watch us and that has to be some sort of barometer for me
Most people would argue Everton are a much better side than us at the moment, certainly more consistent, but now many people go out of their way to watch them?
Neutrals, I mean.
Probably about the same number. I know what you're getting at, but I think the interest amongst neutrals for clubs who aren't at the very top of the table is minimal.
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There is a bit of sub-discussion going on in the match thread
What match thread?
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I imagine a passing neutral might come to that conclusion due to our always being around in the PL era but rarely actually doing much to grab their attention.
That's not true. We've done as much if not more than the likes of Tottenham have done in the PL era
Ourselves, Spurs and Everton have been in the PL every season and have four league cups and an FA cup between us. To the passing, Sky-watching, Talksport-listening neutral that's not a lot to be excited about over 20 years. Not compared to that time Kevin Keegan went tonto or the unveiling of a new Beckham hairdo.
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I meant tonto, not Toronto!
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If I take the question to mean just this season then it has been a mixture of dull (at West Ham I was as deflated as I have been in ages by our lethargy against a team with no strikers), sprinkled with some excitement and hope (notably Arsenal, Man City and possibly Chelsea away). However after 11 games scoring 11 and conceding 12 doesn't exactly shout "excitement and drama guaranteed" from the rooftops..
Chico and I drag a couple of mates along to London games who are neutral (York City and Dundee!) but enjoy the crack, and want us to win. They are decent barometers of how interesting we are and feel that on a good day we have the potential to be exciting - Benteke, Gabby, Delph - but we are too often unadventurous and fail to dominate or create many chances. If we offered them a ticket with no booze I am not sure they'd come along....
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Ah, there's a filter.
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We're a roller-coaster ride. Plenty of ups, plenty of downs and a lot of coasting along merrily.
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Every media outlet in the country say there are only five clubs that matter. It's hardly surprising that the unthinking masses aren't bothered about us.
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typical of one of the more negative people on here to accuse someone who's happy with things of being a nodding dog but then to sulk when he's called a misery arse.
That's the problem, some of the negative posters on here (yourself and previously risso along with a few others) take it to such stupid levels that your opinion reads more like a parody and it's hard to take you seriously, in just the same way that you clearly aren't taking the opinion ads has presented seriously.
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We're a roller-coaster ride. Plenty of ups, plenty of downs and a lot of coasting along merrily.
Indeed, whereas the baggies are a log flume ( and we know what type of log they are ) ;)
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Living down here I find these days we're treated as a joke by other "supporters" I bump into but then most of them down here support teams that win most of their games, the trophies and get all the ref decisions. It was terrible in the latter O'Leary days. O'Neill gave us our respect back, for the four seasons we had him I always seemed to feel respect off other supporters and get comments that we were a decent team. The last three years have been back to the sniggering and snide comments and when we have beaten teams like City or Arsenal they are quite happy to express their view that we were lucky!
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Boring is not the issue. The issue is that we are not competitive and so when the spoils are divided we are not there. If we were in the melt when it matters we can be as boring as hell people will take notice.
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Spurs x2, Hull, Cardiff, West Ham, Liverpool, Newcastle were all boring games to watch.
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Spurs x2, Hull, Cardiff, West Ham, Liverpool, Newcastle were all boring games to watch.
Norwich wasn't exactly thrilling either.
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I think we're the only side to have been in the premier league since the start but never to have qualified for the Champions League knockouts at least?
That does rather sound like mediocrity.
I do think we've been a little dull this season. But then we've had really tough fixtures and even our more winnable games have often been against quite defensive teams like West Ham, Hull and Norwich.
I actually think the league is a little defensive this year too. So it's not just us.
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I think we're the only side to have been in the premier league since the start but never to have qualified for the Champions League knockouts at least?
That does rather sound like mediocrity.
Everton didn't get past the qualifier.
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I think we're the only side to have been in the premier league since the start but never to have qualified for the Champions League knockouts at least?
That does rather sound like mediocrity.
It sounds to me like we've been one of the seven clubs consistently good enough to stay in it.
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Well I have been going down Villa Park nearly 58 years and supporters of my longevity tend to forget that most of you posting were not even born when we won the European Cup or the fabulous charge up from the old third division. One or two of you see Aston Villa FC through rose coloured spectacles as if nothing is ever wrong either with the players or the manager but nothing is ever perfect at any club in the world and you have to take the good times with the bad.
Things may improve under Lambert but not to the point where we become a force to be reckoned with Im afraid. This is because Mr Lerner is still counting the dimes and for all we know that will carry on until he sells up . Our one hope is that some oil rich sultan buys him out and puts considerable capital into the club. Then we have a chance.
We are seen at the moment as a club on the same level as Hull/Sunderland/West Brom and yes Stoke.
Many supporters of other clubs do not know what the European Cup was, They only know about the Champions League and Sky,Sky,Sky.
Most have heard of Benteke due to his exploits in the second half of last season when we were anything but boring. But no one up front is showing this season...so far.
We are doing alright in an understated way but at some point in the future our absent Chairman will have to get his guitar out and sing to himself (in his darkened room) "Shall I stay or shall I go?"
I think we know the answer!
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The most boring teams in the league currently are West Ham, Stoke and Norwich.
I don't think we're boring, just the football's been shite recently but I reckon that will pick up now in the run up to xmas.
How anyone can say we were boring from xmas onwards is bonkers.
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You know my views Ads and a good idea to get a separate thread going. I say at the macro level we are though you can highlight examples of excitement down at the micro level of individual games. If I had to rank the decades I have been watching the Villa, this decade would be bottom of the pile (my first game was circa 1971). If I had to rank periods of five years, again this would be down near the bottom. However, I'm willing to admit that my increasingly old git stance and the fact that most football bores me these days - I can't stay awake during an England match and fast forward through most of MOTD quite frequently - has something to do with it!
Certainly, as I said elsewhere, other fans I meet think we're boring and worse, an irrelevance. I'd like to say that doesn't matter but it hurts you know to sit in a pub with a load of cockney Spurs fans and see them treat us that way. The only player they'd heard of was Benteke. We just don't really seem to have a say in things anymore and I could weep sometimes when I watch clips from the Villa Memories thread
This 08/13 of barmy managerial appointments, a couple of top 6 finishes and a cup final appearance beats 03-08 hands down and it's on a par with 98-2003.
The last time we were genuinely successful over a 5 year period and one of the top teams in the country was 93-98.
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We're not boring, but we play some awful shite at times. Improvement needed. Glad we are defending better however, which may be boring for neutrals.
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I think we're the only side to have been in the premier league since the start but never to have qualified for the Champions League knockouts at least?
That does rather sound like mediocrity.
It sounds to me like we've been one of the seven clubs consistently good enough to stay in it.
And we have actually finished top 4 twice (2nd in the first season) in that time. It might have been the wrong time to do it, but just remember, Spurs and Everton haven't finished any higher than fourth.
That they've both overtaken us in recent years is another matter, but it's down to better off field management. Under O Neill we eventually usurped Everton and were a step above them after a few seasons of them being just ahead of us. Of course we had no contingency for what happened next or sustainability.
As for knockout stages, Everton didn't actually get past the CL preliminaries the season after they finished 4th did they? They fell at the first hurdle IIRC. We've not been brilliant in Europe by any means but we've been marginally better than Everton since football began.
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You know my views Ads and a good idea to get a separate thread going. I say at the macro level we are though you can highlight examples of excitement down at the micro level of individual games. If I had to rank the decades I have been watching the Villa, this decade would be bottom of the pile (my first game was circa 1971). If I had to rank periods of five years, again this would be down near the bottom. However, I'm willing to admit that my increasingly old git stance and the fact that most football bores me these days - I can't stay awake during an England match and fast forward through most of MOTD quite frequently - has something to do with it!
Certainly, as I said elsewhere, other fans I meet think we're boring and worse, an irrelevance. I'd like to say that doesn't matter but it hurts you know to sit in a pub with a load of cockney Spurs fans and see them treat us that way. The only player they'd heard of was Benteke. We just don't really seem to have a say in things anymore and I could weep sometimes when I watch clips from the Villa Memories thread
What do the West Ham fans you know think of us out of interest. They are the most boring club in the premier league by a long Big Sam hoof.
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To be honest I'm only interested in us as a club and what happens. Every other club bores me. That hasn't always been the case, but I don't think the league is as good as it was 10-15 years previous, nor does it have as many standout characters and players. Plus it's increasingly more riddled with tosspot players, which in part has marred my enjoyment to watch a game nuetrally.
Also when the Prem was in it's early years, most clubs in the top flight would carry a mercurial player. That doesn't happen as much now. Occasionally there's a special sort of player playing outside the top four (and not for long). But back in the day clubs from top to bottom could carry 1-2 mercurial/lazy players. The games so competitive now, a lot of the clubs fighting to tread water in this league would rather have 11 gut busters in their side. I mean just thinking of players who were game turners who never played at big clubs, like Le Tissier, Carbone, PDC, Ginola, Kindladze, Ravenelli, Juninho. For ourselves we had Merson, Atkinson, Yorke (though he could graft too and was consistent too).
But clubs below the top 6-7 are less inclined to carry players like this nowadays. Someone like Taarabt doesn't flourish in the Prem, whereby 15-20 years ago, he'd probably have a side built around him perhaps. I think even now, a player like Cantona would struggle to have the impact he did if he was playing in this era.
I think the whole league is a lot more boring these days. It's not just a case of us being "boring." I think a lot of footy fans are like myself now. My club is what I'm interested. The rest doesn't bother me unless it directly affects my club.
Back in the 90's, up to the early noughties I could happily sit and watch a Spurs game to watch Daveed doing his thing, or Arsenal to see the likes of Bergkamp and Henry in their pomp. I hated Utd but watching Cantona was an awe inspiring joy at times. There's a handful of very watchable players now, but generally the overall spectacle isn't quite as good, and too many players are just a bit unlikeable. We know as much about players as we've ever done before, and often a little too much. Chelsea, a club I quite enjoyed to watch back in the Franco Zola era, are now a club that represents the worst in Football. They're repulsive and the people who are the face of that club, particularly JT are repugnant individuals.
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To a neutral, yes, we are very boring.
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Who cares what a neutral thinks? How can you be neutral and be a football fan? There is always some affect on the Villa when watching others play, wanting one team to do another to keep us above them, or another team which has caused mortal offence in games gone by which provides interest.
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I imagine other teams fans might put us in the same category as WBA or Fulham. Sort of that middling team that bobbles around a bit and pulls the occasional upset.
We are the kind of team you know the name of the keeper and maybe one other player, usually the striker.
I love the Villa but I dont think our current style is exciting enough to make us stand out from the pack in the way say Swansea does.
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Who cares what a neutral thinks? How can you be neutral and be a football fan? There is always some affect on the Villa when watching others play, wanting one team to do another to keep us above them, or another team which has caused mortal offence in games gone by which provides interest.
Sorry neutral was the wrong term. I meant a fan of others especially with no Mids connection. We are nothing to them , very much an album filler of a side.
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I think we're the only side to have been in the premier league since the start but never to have qualified for the Champions League knockouts at least?
That does rather sound like mediocrity.
It sounds to me like we've been one of the seven clubs consistently good enough to stay in it.
And we have actually finished top 4 twice (2nd in the first season) in that time. It might have been the wrong time to do it, but just remember, Spurs and Everton haven't finished any higher than fourth.
That they've both overtaken us in recent years is another matter, but it's down to better off field management. Under O Neill we eventually usurped Everton and were a step above them after a few seasons of them being just ahead of us. Of course we had no contingency for what happened next or sustainability.
As for knockout stages, Everton didn't actually get past the CL preliminaries the season after they finished 4th did they? They fell at the first hurdle IIRC. We've not been brilliant in Europe by any means but we've been marginally better than Everton since football began.
We've finished second twice and fourth, plus several top six finishes since I've supported villa. Te spell from c 1990 to the late 1990s or even up to the end of the MON era has probably been our most consistent era of relative success for about 100 years. Although I think I'd rather win the league and then go back down again like the generation before me enjoyed.
But it is frustrating that we've consistently failed to take the leap when we had the chance. Of course it could have gone wrong, but its could have gone right!
Finish second under SGT always likely to be a one off. Half the team weren't even really top flight players.
But under big Ron we failed to capitalise. Little and Doug rested on their laurels after we finished fourth. And then when Doug did give a manager quite a bit of money he gave it to John Gregory who made a number of bad buys and yet somehow never finished outside the top eight.
Bt biggest of all we chose MON and wasted a wonderful opportunity. If we'd bought youngsters like spurs, or with the eye for talent of Everton, we really could have built a sustainable exciting future
As it is we're still trying to sort out the balance sheet mess that we were left with. I don't blame Lerner for 'counting the dimes' at all
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I think we're the only side to have been in the premier league since the start but never to have qualified for the Champions League knockouts at least?
That does rather sound like mediocrity.
It sounds to me like we've been one of the seven clubs consistently good enough to stay in it.
And we have actually finished top 4 twice (2nd in the first season) in that time. It might have been the wrong time to do it, but just remember, Spurs and Everton haven't finished any higher than fourth.
That they've both overtaken us in recent years is another matter, but it's down to better off field management. Under O Neill we eventually usurped Everton and were a step above them after a few seasons of them being just ahead of us. Of course we had no contingency for what happened next or sustainability.
As for knockout stages, Everton didn't actually get past the CL preliminaries the season after they finished 4th did they? They fell at the first hurdle IIRC. We've not been brilliant in Europe by any means but we've been marginally better than Everton since football began.
Although I see us as pretty much similar size to everton we have finished below them 8 of the last 9 seasons - I thought they would struggle under Martinez but the loans of lukaku and Barry have made a huge difference.
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Well I have been going down Villa Park nearly 58 years and supporters of my longevity tend to forget that most of you posting were not even born when we won the European Cup or the fabulous charge up from the old third division. One or two of you see Aston Villa FC through rose coloured spectacles as if nothing is ever wrong either with the players or the manager but nothing is ever perfect at any club in the world and you have to take the good times with the bad.
Things may improve under Lambert but not to the point where we become a force to be reckoned with Im afraid. This is because Mr Lerner is still counting the dimes and for all we know that will carry on until he sells up . Our one hope is that some oil rich sultan buys him out and puts considerable capital into the club. Then we have a chance.
We are seen at the moment as a club on the same level as Hull/Sunderland/West Brom and yes Stoke.
Many supporters of other clubs do not know what the European Cup was, They only know about the Champions League and Sky,Sky,Sky.
Most have heard of Benteke due to his exploits in the second half of last season when we were anything but boring. But no one up front is showing this season...so far.
We are doing alright in an understated way but at some point in the future our absent Chairman will have to get his guitar out and sing to himself (in his darkened room) "Shall I stay or shall I go?"
I think we know the answer!
I just don't understand the "counting his dimes" comment at all. We've spent £40~m in 18months, that doesn't sound like an owner who's too busy counting his money. Yes he wants to bring the wages down to a point where the club can handle them but that's just basic common sense, if you're owner has to dig in his pocket to pay the running costs every year you've got major issues.
The bad spending in previous years has meant that money has had to be spread around a lot of players to get us a squad Lambert is happy with. Given that if you want to level anything at Lerner it should be that he allowed mon to spend too much on the wrong players.
If we don't become a force to be reckoned with it's not because Lerner isn't spending enough but more because the nature of the PL and CL mean that the teams who are established there have to fuck up massively to fall out of it (see Liverpool) and there has to be a team with lots of money waiting to step in (Man City) because the drawing power and spending power of the sides in the top 4 is just too big a gap.
Most non-villa fans form their opinion of the club based on the press, and since MON flounced off that opinion was incredibly negative for a few years, sadly a lot of our own fans have been drawn into the same negativity. We've got a much more promising squad than some people are willing to give us credit for and to be where we are after the start to the season we had is a perfectly reasonable achievement. We have a run until Christmas where we should be looking to get a fair few points. If that happens people will start to take notice a little more, which is fine for fans of other clubs but for our own fans to be so down on us is pretty frustrating.
I probably have a reputation for being one of the overly optimistic people on here but I'm not saying everything is perfect and I don't expect it to be, but my expectations are much more grounded than a lot of the negative people on here have been for the last 2-3 years. I see a lot of positives but I know there are negatives as well, and I accept them, some of the doom-mongers need to do the same in reverse rather than trying to shit all over any post that's happy with how things are.
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Everton finishing above us 8 out of the last 9 seasons is a fairly damning stat
I'd like to compare wage bills in that period but fear the result would not be in our favour.
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If we were a team with an average age of 27 then I would say yes we are boring. The flashes of brilliance we occasionally see would just be reminders of wasted potential. Because the average age is around 23, even though the majority of our play is "boring", those flashes of brilliance say to me that we have some exciting development ahead of us if handled in the right manner. If we could combine the end of last season's attack with this season's improved defense than we will be anything but boring... and considering that it is largely the same team with a few additions there is no reason why we can't get there.
If we had lost our best players from last year and this is how we played because of that then I would be in despair... I've been bored through large sections of the season so far by our play, but not by the team, the club or the direction we are heading and I'm confident that it will pay off over the next 9 games.
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If we were a team with an average age of 27 then I would say yes we are boring. The flashes of brilliance we occasionally see would just be reminders of wasted potential. Because the average age is around 23, even though the majority of our play is "boring", those flashes of brilliance say to me that we have some exciting development ahead of us if handled in the right manner. If we could combine the end of last season's attack with this season's improved defense than we will be anything but boring... and considering that it is largely the same team with a few additions there is no reason why we can't get there.
If we had lost our best players from last year and this is how we played because of that then I would be in despair... I've been bored through large sections of the season so far by our play, but not by the team, the club or the direction we are heading and I'm confident that it will pay off over the next 9 games.
Bloody good post mate.
UTV!
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If we were a team with an average age of 27 then I would say yes we are boring. The flashes of brilliance we occasionally see would just be reminders of wasted potential. Because the average age is around 23, even though the majority of our play is "boring", those flashes of brilliance say to me that we have some exciting development ahead of us if handled in the right manner. If we could combine the end of last season's attack with this season's improved defense than we will be anything but boring... and considering that it is largely the same team with a few additions there is no reason why we can't get there.
If we had lost our best players from last year and this is how we played because of that then I would be in despair... I've been bored through large sections of the season so far by our play, but not by the team, the club or the direction we are heading and I'm confident that it will pay off over the next 9 games.
Great example of a reasonable, realistic post on our current situation.
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I just pray waiting for Paul Lambert to turn us into the new Dortmund is not the same wasted years as waiting for MON to turn into the next Brian Clough.
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I just pray waiting for Paul Lambert to turn us into the new Dortmund is not the same wasted years as waiting for MON to turn into the next Brian Clough.
None of us have several.more life times to waste.
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To be honest I'm only interested in us as a club and what happens. Every other club bores me. That hasn't always been the case, but I don't think the league is as good as it was 10-15 years previous, nor does it have as many standout characters and players. Plus it's increasingly more riddled with tosspot players, which in part has marred my enjoyment to watch a game nuetrally.
Also when the Prem was in it's early years, most clubs in the top flight would carry a mercurial player. That doesn't happen as much now. Occasionally there's a special sort of player playing outside the top four (and not for long). But back in the day clubs from top to bottom could carry 1-2 mercurial/lazy players. The games so competitive now, a lot of the clubs fighting to tread water in this league would rather have 11 gut busters in their side. I mean just thinking of players who were game turners who never played at big clubs, like Le Tissier, Carbone, PDC, Ginola, Kindladze, Ravenelli, Juninho. For ourselves we had Merson, Atkinson, Yorke (though he could graft too and was consistent too).
But clubs below the top 6-7 are less inclined to carry players like this nowadays. Someone like Taarabt doesn't flourish in the Prem, whereby 15-20 years ago, he'd probably have a side built around him perhaps. I think even now, a player like Cantona would struggle to have the impact he did if he was playing in this era.
I think the whole league is a lot more boring these days. It's not just a case of us being "boring." I think a lot of footy fans are like myself now. My club is what I'm interested. The rest doesn't bother me unless it directly affects my club.
Back in the 90's, up to the early noughties I could happily sit and watch a Spurs game to watch Daveed doing his thing, or Arsenal to see the likes of Bergkamp and Henry in their pomp. I hated Utd but watching Cantona was an awe inspiring joy at times. There's a handful of very watchable players now, but generally the overall spectacle isn't quite as good, and too many players are just a bit unlikeable. We know as much about players as we've ever done before, and often a little too much. Chelsea, a club I quite enjoyed to watch back in the Franco Zola era, are now a club that represents the worst in Football. They're repulsive and the people who are the face of that club, particularly JT are repugnant individuals.
I kinda get what you're saying but you are also indirectly commenting on your rose-tinted youth when football was a magical world full of these wedge-haired wing-wonders. Stuart Ripley was the height of exoticness in our street in 1993. Now, when you (or me or Ads who I can't believe is only 27) or most others who post here are older than most of these gobshites who we watch every week on obscene money, that love does lose its lustre.
Plus, you've got your own grown-up concerns to contend with such as comedy-writing and avoiding scatalogical mishaps in Premier Inns' meaning football thoughts aren't all-consuming as when you were a bairn.
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boring teams don't score the kind of goals we did last year. There's some real talent in this squad. What we lack is the experience and consistency which we are building, and in the process shedding some of the naivety that plagued us last season. Boring is what McLeish made us into and for a decent stretch under Gregory. This side is interesting and is continuing to come together. It is anything but boring.
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Our spate of spectacular goals last year was often borne out of a moment of inspiration. But all too often it's 99% plodding perspiration. I know Swansea are finding it a bit tougher this year with the UEFA Cup to contend with and Southampton may well be a flash in the pan (I think Pocchettino will go on to be an outstanding coach) but it would be nice if we had a bit of consistent passing to go with the pressing like they both seem to have.
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I just pray waiting for Paul Lambert to turn us into the new Dortmund is not the same wasted years as waiting for MON to turn into the next Brian Clough.
Yup.
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Our spate of spectacular goals last year was often borne out of a moment of inspiration. But all too often it's 99% plodding perspiration. I know Swansea are finding it a bit tougher this year with the UEFA Cup to contend with and Southampton may well be a flash in the pan (I think Pocchettino will go on to be an outstanding coach) but it would be nice if we had a bit of consistent passing to go with the pressing like they both seem to have.
yes, both play some really nice stuff. But also bear in mind we watch all of our games, every minute so there's far more room to scrutinize everything we do. We are our own worst critics. My guess is Swansea and Southampton forums aren't always glowing about their sides either. We are very much a work in progress and for me at least, if we become more resolute and "boring" and harder to beat, while figuring out how to capitalize on our chances then I'll be cheering on "boring, boring, Villa" all the way.
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I don't think we make enough of an impact as a club to be memorable. We're just another club at the moment. We're only in the news when one of our players is linked away it seems. I hate to bring him up but when O'Neill was first around there was a genuine hope and excitement around the club. That was an exciting time in my opinion. Right now we have the potential to be exiting, but we're not quite there.
This isn't a moan by the way, I just feel that we seem to be an after thought in the media's eyes and that hasn't always been the way. So we've declined a fair way over the last decade. Glancing in from the outside, would it not be reasonable for people to assume we're quite boring? You have to kind of dig deep to find out that there's actually reason to be exited at Villa.
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Who cares what a neutral thinks? How can you be neutral and be a football fan? There is always some affect on the Villa when watching others play, wanting one team to do another to keep us above them, or another team which has caused mortal offence in games gone by which provides interest.
Sorry neutral was the wrong term. I meant a fan of others especially with no Mids connection. We are nothing to them , very much an album filler of a side.
I see what you mean now. I suppose it depends on who it is. Ask Everton fans what they think of us and a stream of vitriol usually follows. Newcastle fans have a bit of a chip on their shoulder, but it works both ways. There are a number of clubs I am just not really bothered about too and they play in the Champions League.
Why is it I am more offended by Spurs, who have a healthy dislike of and I am not bothered by an infinitely more successful Arsenal? I suppose unless you’re club and or supporters are entirely obnoxious, such as Man United, then it’s pretty difficult to garner a universal dislike.
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If we were a team with an average age of 27 then I would say yes we are boring. The flashes of brilliance we occasionally see would just be reminders of wasted potential. Because the average age is around 23, even though the majority of our play is "boring", those flashes of brilliance say to me that we have some exciting development ahead of us if handled in the right manner. If we could combine the end of last season's attack with this season's improved defense than we will be anything but boring... and considering that it is largely the same team with a few additions there is no reason why we can't get there.
If we had lost our best players from last year and this is how we played because of that then I would be in despair... I've been bored through large sections of the season so far by our play, but not by the team, the club or the direction we are heading and I'm confident that it will pay off over the next 9 games.
You've described it better than I could. BUT to a neutral they probably couldn't care or indeed realise that we have the youngest squad so to most football folk we have been pretty dull this season. Their loss.
As a neutral I'd say I enjoy watching in order (ignoring the money teams): Swansea, Southampton, West Brom, Everton, Palace (the fans are great) and possibly Newcastle (an enjoyable car-crash). That leaves Hull, Cardiff, West Ham, Stoke, Norwich and Sunderland (roughly).
I'd like to think Villa fit comfortably in the first set of clubs. It's also noticable that most the good clubs to watch have foreign managers.
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There are some games that when they're on Sky on a Monday night or a Sunday afternoon where I think "why is this on the box?". I ended up watching Norwich against West Ham, goodness knows why, as if you want boring clubs, then look no further than those two.
But then I find watching Man United a pretty dull affair and could not be bothered watching them play Arsenal. Its the derby games that I quite like watching, where there is a bit of needle.
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Since Lambert has taken over we've been a different team from one half of a season to the next. I expect that to continue. Given there is so little consistency it's difficult to nail down an opinion for his tenure as a whole.
However, in the first half of the 2013/2014, I do think the "dull" label can be justified. For instance we recently went 7 1/2 hours or something without scoring a goal, and grinded out two 0-0 draws during that 7 1/2 hours. You can take some positives from that like it shows the defence is improving, but you can't call it exiting.
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richard moore:
Quote from: saunders_heroes on November 20, 2013, 03:57:26 PM
Quote from: VillaiNorseVillan on November 20, 2013, 03:41:50 PM
I imagine a passing neutral might come to that conclusion due to our always being around in the PL era but rarely actually doing much to grab their attention.
That's not true. We've done as much if not more than the likes of Tottenham have done in the PL era, but I think people are judging us on where we're at right now, and let's face it we're a non entity at the moment. I look at this forum and see stuff that "Ads" (and others) post about us being "exciting" but I find myself shaking my head in disbelief. I think this is one of the poorest era of Villa teams I've ever seen and so do most if not all of my mates and work colleagues think as well. I just can't see it when I'm told we're "exciting".
Perhaps I'm just having a mid life crisis and I'm a grumpy old git, but I find Villa under Lambert boring, and we've become a team who are just happy to make up the numbers.
I agree totally, which won't surprise anyone. As I said above, I only have to spend about 10 minutes on the Villa Memories thread to be reminded that everything you have said here, for me, is true. But I'm probably having the same latter mid life crisis as you (I'm 51 and 52 next week, be warned Villa always lose on or around my birthday, you see you can't even rely on them for that. Perhaps that makes them exciting after all!!!)
so, you have two brithday's next week? Are you, what, 26 in human years?
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Since Lambert has taken over we've been a different team from one half of a season to the next. I expect that to continue. Given there is so little consistency it's difficult to nail down an opinion for his tenure as a whole.
However, in the first half of the 2013/2014, I do think the "dull" label can be justified. For instance we recently went 7 1/2 hours or something without scoring a goal, and grinded out two 0-0 draws during that 7 1/2 hours. You can take some positives from that like it shows the defence is improving, but you can't call it exiting.
Yes but we also had the arsenal and man city wins where we played very well and played some really good football, we were very good in the first half against Everton and were the better team away at Chelsea. Those were all exciting performances so calling the club dull is unfair, and importantly I don't think we've gone into any games intending to play dull containing football, we've just had to because we can't get our game going, that's very different to the likes of Stoke, etc.
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Since Lambert has taken over we've been a different team from one half of a season to the next. I expect that to continue. Given there is so little consistency it's difficult to nail down an opinion for his tenure as a whole.
However, in the first half of the 2013/2014, I do think the "dull" label can be justified. For instance we recently went 7 1/2 hours or something without scoring a goal, and grinded out two 0-0 draws during that 7 1/2 hours. You can take some positives from that like it shows the defence is improving, but you can't call it exiting.
Yes but we also had the arsenal and man city wins where we played very well and played some really good football, we were very good in the first half against Everton and were the better team away at Chelsea. Those were all exciting performances so calling the club dull is unfair, and importantly I don't think we've gone into any games intending to play dull containing football, we've just had to because we can't get our game going, that's very different to the likes of Stoke, etc.
Hmm, not sure you can say that about Man City. The second half, maybe, but the first half was one of the most one-sided matches I've seen in a long time.
I think the most important factor in this playing badly business is that sometimes, it won't work out, it won't go to game plan, and it is going to be like that for a while yet.
The crucial thing, though, is like you said - that we are *trying* to play decent stuff but mostly failing to do so. Compare that to the McLeish season, where defensive, unadventurous stuff was served up so often because *that's how his teams play*.
Massive difference, in my opinion. Probably not too convincing for neutrals but, hey ho, you know what, fuck neutrals.
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We weren't boring towards the end of last season. However, for large stretches of 2012-13 we were too interesting - when our forwards didn't click we were at least entertaining in our flailing attempts at defending. All that's happened this season is that, when it doesn't work going forwards (and sometimes it still does), we've tightened up defensively.
Every team can be boring. We're a particularly odd side, in that we're brilliant to watch when it works and desperate to watch when it doesn't, and there's absolutely no other option - it's either brilliant or terrible. However, at least we're dull at the back this season.
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I think the major thing is, it's early season. Some players are having second season syndrome. Some players are struggling to settle. We've had injuries to key players at times and we've had a tough start. It hasn't been pretty much of the time...BUT...there's the possibility, and a good likelihood, of improvement on the entertainment stakes. Because we've had a good stretch last season of looking like a good side to watch going forward, I'm hopeful that when everything and everyone settles down, we'll see more of that again.
The main thing first and foremost is points on the board. 14 points thus far isn't a bad return. We're well on course for comfortable survival, and you'd have to assume that with a very tough start out the way, our run of games coming up should see a more favorable return.
Last season at times was very messy. Very hard to watch. It was spare undies time on occasions, but never really boring. It might have been a bit too horrifying at times, but never boring IMO. McLeish was depressing, sleep inducing, party political broadcast boring.
We will get better and easier on the eye. But for me, points first, style second. Particularly having spent 3 years fighting relegation. Points come first, even if sometimes we have to win ugly.
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Since Lambert has taken over we've been a different team from one half of a season to the next. I expect that to continue. Given there is so little consistency it's difficult to nail down an opinion for his tenure as a whole.
However, in the first half of the 2013/2014, I do think the "dull" label can be justified. For instance we recently went 7 1/2 hours or something without scoring a goal, and grinded out two 0-0 draws during that 7 1/2 hours. You can take some positives from that like it shows the defence is improving, but you can't call it exiting.
Yes but we also had the arsenal and man city wins where we played very well and played some really good football, we were very good in the first half against Everton and were the better team away at Chelsea. Those were all exciting performances so calling the club dull is unfair, and importantly I don't think we've gone into any games intending to play dull containing football, we've just had to because we can't get our game going, that's very different to the likes of Stoke, etc.
Hmm, not sure you can say that about Man City. The second half, maybe, but the first half was one of the most one-sided matches I've seen in a long time.
I think the most important factor in this playing badly business is that sometimes, it won't work out, it won't go to game plan, and it is going to be like that for a while yet.
The crucial thing, though, is like you said - that we are *trying* to play decent stuff but mostly failing to do so. Compare that to the McLeish season, where defensive, unadventurous stuff was served up so often because *that's how his teams play*.
Massive difference, in my opinion. Probably not too convincing for neutrals but, hey ho, you know what, fuck neutrals.
It's not something I'm worried about because as you say, fuck neutrals, and also I'm confident Villa will get stronger as the season progresses. Hopefully we'll get at least as good as we were last season with goals scored but this time won't concede as many goals, meaning a top ten or even top 8 finish.
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We're a particularly odd side, in that we're brilliant to watch when it works and desperate to watch when it doesn't, and there's absolutely no other option - it's either brilliant or terrible. However, at least we're dull at the back this season.
That's absolutely spot-on, Monty.
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Those were all exciting performances so calling the club dull is unfair, and importantly I don't think we've gone into any games intending to play dull containing football, we've just had to because we can't get our game going, that's very different to the likes of Stoke, etc.
Hull and West Ham away have to go down as two games where we didn't want to play. The word 'dull' flatters us regarding those two games.
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Those were all exciting performances so calling the club dull is unfair, and importantly I don't think we've gone into any games intending to play dull containing football, we've just had to because we can't get our game going, that's very different to the likes of Stoke, etc.
Hull and West Ham away have to go down as two games where we didn't want to play. The word 'dull' flatters us regarding those two games.
I think both teams played a part in those games, the issue was we were playing against teams who wanted to sit and defend and wanted us to just run onto them so they couldn't counter attack. When we didn't and kept our shape it became what it was. As the away team I have no great problem with us choosing not to fall into that trap.
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Those were all exciting performances so calling the club dull is unfair, and importantly I don't think we've gone into any games intending to play dull containing football, we've just had to because we can't get our game going, that's very different to the likes of Stoke, etc.
Hull and West Ham away have to go down as two games where we didn't want to play. The word 'dull' flatters us regarding those two games.
I think both teams played a part in those games, the issue was we were playing against teams who wanted to sit and defend and wanted us to just run onto them so they couldn't counter attack. When we didn't and kept our shape it became what it was. As the away team I have no great problem with us choosing not to fall into that trap.
I'll give you Hull who seemed terrified of our counter attacking threat so never really got at us. The problem was, we never showed any ambition or threat ourselves. Shockingly dull game.
West Ham, despite not playing with a striker for most of the game faced a Villa side that played 5 across the back and three defensive midfielders. It was no surprise West Ham's midfield dominated and bombarded our box with crosses to their non existent centre forward. It was great practice for our central defenders but horrible to watch as once again, we had zero ambition. An early Wiemann half chance and Benteke hitting the bar late on was all we produced in over 90 minutes. It was sad and embarrassing to watch.
Hopefully things will improve once Delph and Gabby are back but let's be honest, if TSM had been in charge of those two performances we'd be calling for his head. We've got on paper a few very winnable games coming up and hopefully a full squad to choose from but I can't help thinking we're not even getting the basics right and nothing like the team that finished last season.
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The end of last season, our pressing and passing was so manic that it truly was exciting, but we didn't have the experience or the positional awareness to return to the best possible neutral state in transition and that is where the goals against leaked. This season is generating familiarity with those structural positions in the immediate moment we give up the ball (which we do a lot of) so we aren't so susceptible to our own errors. Side effects have been that we have been less adventurous with our off-the-ball movement and as a consequence we are making much of our own passing a lot more difficult to execute and our efficiency of ball use has suffered. We are in that middle ground where it is unclear whether we can bring the best aspects of both of our styles of play together into one perfect dance combining solid defense and an unpredictable multi-pronged attack. This time last year I was unsure whether this team would ever be capable of either... so now I'm excited to see if we can bring it all together to be capable of both at the same time.
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Agree with all of that, Caiphus, though I'm not sure if I'm so "excited" but I'm certainly praying we can bring it all together.
If we go back 15-16 months, the Norwich fans were telling us how important Culverhouse is to the team play, some even saying more so than Lambert. I certainly haven't lost faith and I'm convincing myself that Lambert is not another MON. I really want to believe there's more to him than our recent performances. As I keep saying, Lambert is still learning his trade and I'm sure we haven't seen the best of him yet.
It's just a shame we can't buy confidence but then with such a young team, it will come, given the time. I hope. ;)
A win against those fleas from the Black Country could be just the medicine.
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The true test of the original question is at how many games would you sooner they be decided by the toss of a coin after about 10 minutes of crap?
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The true test of the original question is at how many games would you sooner they be decided by the toss of a coin after about 10 minutes of crap?
Funny you should say that Dave - after 10 minutes at Upton Park Chico turned to me and said it had an inept 0-0 written all over it. I think they had lost their last 3 home games and were low on confidence and we were unable to exploit this. A coin toss would have been the humane solution.
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The true test of the original question is at how many games would you sooner they be decided by the toss of a coin after about 10 minutes of crap?
Funny you should say that Dave - after 10 minutes at Upton Park Chico turned to me and said it had an inept 0-0 written all over it. I think they had lost their last 3 home games and were low on confidence and we were unable to exploit this. A coin toss would have been the humane solution.
I think many of us thought going into the WH game that it had 0-0 written all over it before a ball had been kicked to be fair.
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Sadly too many games like that this season.
What still baffles me were how exciting the games were from February onwards (in the middle of an excuriating relegation battle), how decent the first 3 games this season looked and how downhill it has all gone since.
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For me there's a bit of a case of "we need to keep clean sheets, we shouldn't have to score 2-3 to win a game" leading to "why are we playing for clean sheets, we won't win anything unless we score". We know this squad can do both, we just need to trust them to bring it together and do both at the same time. In the meantime I'm happy to go result by result and keep ourselves in a decent spot. If I thought where we are was the end of the process I'd be worried but it clearly isn't.
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He'd found midfield balance with Delph, Sylla and Westwood last season but he seems reluctant to go back to that for some reason. Westy's form hasn't helped, but also continually playing Westwood and KEA in the same midfield doesn't help matters because it doesn't, and probably will never, work. The two together make us too immobile.
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He'd found midfield balance with Delph, Sylla and Westwood last season but he seems reluctant to go back to that for some reason. Westy's form hasn't helped, but also continually playing Westwood and KEA in the same midfield doesn't help matters because it doesn't, and probably will never, work. The two together make us too immobile.
Very much agree. Sylla is starting to get back into the side again and after the improvement shown when Lowton and Bacuna were both in the same side I'm hoping we won't see the Westwood/KEA combo again for a while.
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"Are we a boring outfit?"
On the evidence of last night, no.
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We are a work in progess and midtable team that lacks consistancy. The results this season indicate this as does now probably where we'll start winning some home games and go winless away for a bit.
Good thing for me is we're picking up points regularly with Benteke injured/off form.
I liken us a bit to Newcastle who have like us had some random results this season, beating Chelsea and Newcastle yet losing at home to Hull and at Sunderland. They have a better first 11 quality of player than us particularly in the midfield area so that's why they're nestling in 7th as opposed to bottom half so really that's the next step for us, getting some creativity in central midfield.
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A team that lacks consistency, by definition, is not dull, because you don't what they're going to do next.
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Not sure where to put this, so this seems as good a place as any.
I was just reading the match report from last night on the BBC website, and they had this stat from Opta:-
Aston Villa have won seven points from losing positions in the Premier League this season, more than any other side.
To me that's a stark contrast to last season, when heads seemed to drop if we went behind and we often ended up getting a hiding. A clear sign of this young side maturing.
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Or are we just shite in the first half?
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Or are we just shite in the first half?
Beats being shite in both half like last season.
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At least we've answered 4 questions so far this season.
Can we stop conceding in almost every single game? Yes
Can we stop looking like a joke at Corners? Yes
Can we come back from losing positions? Yes
Can we survive when Benteke is off form or injured? Yes
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Or are we just shite in the first half?
Beats being shite in both half like last season.
Shit in one half and good in another is not boring.
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At least we've answered 4 questions so far this season.
Can we stop conceding in almost every single game? Yes
Can we stop looking like a joke at Corners? Yes
Can we come back from losing positions? Yes
Can we survive when Benteke is off form or injured? Yes
Great thing for me is we're regularly picking up points now with Benteke injured/off form. So eventually he will start scoring regularly again so that gives us the basis to start winning some games.
Still going to be a problem when he leaves though.
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I think of one of the main problems this season so far is Weimann, Benteke and Gabby picking up injuries at various times and not having a run of games together as a front three. Hopefully now they'll stay fit for a while and we'll see a difference, which in turn should help Benteke out of his current dip in form.
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At least we've answered 4 questions so far this season.
Can we stop conceding in almost every single game? Yes
Can we stop looking like a joke at Corners? Yes
Can we come back from losing positions? Yes
Can we survive when Benteke is off form or injured? Yes
Absolutely. Throw into the equation the fact that Westwood, Weimann and Benteke's form will improve sooner rather than later.
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We are the definition of a mid table team really.
A team that has a star player and a couple who are just below that but are good to watch when on form. And a lot of other middling players.
We'll pick up enough points from teams around and below us to be comfortable of any relegation struggle like they last few weeks, we'll pick up the odd enjoyable and unexpected win against a title contender but when there's an opportunity to kick on up the table we won't take advantage like today.
I suppose at least it's not a relegation battle this time but still I just want a bit more excitement from these home games.
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Until we get ourselves to 40 points I won't be taking anything for granted. If we accumulate points at the rate we are going we should be fine, but you just never know when we might go on a bad run. We are really struggling to score which is a major worry.
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Yes
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We are the very definition of becoming Everton. We will have ridiculously bland performances mixed in with some great and shit ones. In time we'll be solid enough rarely to worry about going down or consistently challenging for much. Then once in a blue moon we'll surprise everyone and win something or at least come close just to remind the fans that we are worth following and pinning our hopes to.
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Sometimes we are. Sometimes we aren't. Same as we have been for the 35+ years I've been going.
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What I'm holding onto is that a year ago I think we'd just drawn 0-0 at home to Stoke and again were struggling to score goals but were picking up points on a decent basis.
And yet things clicked from January onwards, at least going forward. Hopefully there won't be a horrendous xmas period this time (although looking at the fixtures mid of Jan when we play Arsenal at home followed by the Merseyside two away doesn't look promising) and we're starting from a higher base than last year.
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We are the very definition of becoming Everton. We will have ridiculously bland performances mixed in with some great and shit ones. In time we'll be solid enough rarely to worry about going down or consistently challenging for much. Then once in a blue moon we'll surprise everyone and win something or at least come close just to remind the fans that we are worth following and pinning our hopes to.
TV, I think Everton have been consistently sniffing around 6th place for a decade so are very different to us.
I agree they have not been a scintillating team to watch for most of that time but they make life difficult for opponents and have made Goodison a hard place to get a result. No idea if they were dreary in Moyes' first couple of seasons though....
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Everton has lost 1 in 30 at home. We've probably had 1 good performance in 30 at home.
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Everton started with 3 underwhelming draws but I thought they had a superb last day of the transfer window that has significantly improved them.....McCarthy and Barry coming in to replace Fellani and picking up Lukaku as David Moyes teams always lacked a consistant goalscorer.
Two season long loans in there aswell for people who are sniffy about them.
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There were people on here who were going mental about lack of clean sheets. Well we have plenty of those now however clean sheets at this moment in development of our team come at a cost. So please complain if you must but there we are!
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We are the very definition of becoming Everton. We will have ridiculously bland performances mixed in with some great and shit ones. In time we'll be solid enough rarely to worry about going down or consistently challenging for much. Then once in a blue moon we'll surprise everyone and win something or at least come close just to remind the fans that we are worth following and pinning our hopes to.
TV, I think Everton have been consistently sniffing around 6th place for a decade so are very different to us.
I agree they have not been a scintillating team to watch for most of that time but they make life difficult for opponents and have made Goodison a hard place to get a result. No idea if they were dreary in Moyes' first couple of seasons though....
Their home form has certainly been their backbone and it is something we need to correct. We are way too easy on the opposition at Villa Park and I just don't get why. The point about Everton is that in amongst those league finishes there were always patches of poor or highly inconsistent form. They've been in the bottom three at Christmas, they've finished seasons strongly enough to win the league had the first half been half decent. It's why in that time they failed to win anything because something went wrong. But in terms of a model then we need to become resolute first and especially getting something when playing poorly. We are doing that now at a cost. Lambert has always advocated attacking football but even he saw last season's football was going to have to change for us to survive. This, now is the in between stage of what was and what hopefully will be better football to come.
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There's no argument here, we are a fu*in million miles behind Everton and may as well be in a different league. They are not our competition any more.
Look at the last six games, you can see some successes but equally some extreme worry too.
Hull 0-0
Spurs 0-2
Everton 0-2
West ham 0-0
Cardiff 2-0
Wbrom 2-2
Sund 0-0
Great we've managed four clean sheets in 7 - Very good. Only scored in two, fu*kin dreadful. This time last year we were -12 diff and only won two. This year a bit better. So why do I feel so numb still after today's dreadful rubbish despite the clear stats progress.
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We have had some dull periods but usually when there has been some hope of getting back into the top echelons. At the moment, I keep wondering how we can stay in the Premier League. We are poor. The top sides are good. Those at the bottom are dire. Are the divisions below worse than us?
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We have had some dull periods but usually when there has been some hope of getting back into the top echelons. At the moment, I keep wondering how we can stay in the Premier League. We are poor. The top sides are good. Those at the bottom are dire. Are the divisions below worse than us?
We're 10th at the moment, so on the evidence so far this season, there are plenty of sides worse than us.
We are capable of being absolutely shit - which is exactly how we've been for at least three years now - but we are nothing like one of the worst sides in the league.
For starters, though we frequently look about as creative as Liam Gallagher trying to come up with some lyrics, we have at least become more resilient at the back. If we were as creatively void as we are now plus as shit at the back as we were last season, then we probably would be in the relegation scrap.
We are currently 10th, one place behind Tottenham, and ahead of our Brazil 1970 near neighbours.
Our inability to keep the ball, pass it, or create many chances, combined with our misfiring best player and our several players who have regressed after a tough first season - all these things are very worrying, but to read some of the comments, you'd think we were in the relegation places.
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We have had some dull periods but usually when there has been some hope of getting back into the top echelons. At the moment, I keep wondering how we can stay in the Premier League. We are poor. The top sides are good. Those at the bottom are dire. Are the divisions below worse than us?
We're 10th at the moment, so on the evidence so far this season, there are plenty of sides worse than us.
We are capable of being absolutely shit - which is exactly how we've been for at least three years now - but we are nothing like one of the worst sides in the league.
For starters, though we frequently look about as creative as Liam Gallagher trying to come up with some lyrics, we have at least become more resilient at the back. If we were as creatively void as we are now plus as shit at the back as we were last season, then we probably would be in the relegation scrap.
We are currently 10th, one place behind Tottenham, and ahead of our Brazil 1970 near neighbours.
Our inability to keep the ball, pass it, or create many chances, combined with our misfiring best player and our several players who have regressed after a tough first season - all these things are very worrying, but to read some of the comments, you'd think we were in the relegation places.
You have to be fucking shit to get relegated from this league. The fact that we are mid table does not make us good. Let's all be honest about things.
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Our misfiring top player not only has an affect on the fans but it has an affect on his teammates. I'm sure they all want to see the other Benteke as much as we do. It would make all of the hard work in getting us defensively sound well worth it. To think that we were shit and beyond repair is so depressing to read. Someone even suggested in the match thread that we weren't as good as West Ham because they'd just beaten Fulham 3-0. Because I must have missed where West Ham started the day 3rd in the league and not in the bottom three. It's not great but not close to as shit as some people are fainting over.
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Close this thread. Prince William has spoken. At least if the pic in the caption competition is anything to go by.
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We have had some dull periods but usually when there has been some hope of getting back into the top echelons. At the moment, I keep wondering how we can stay in the Premier League. We are poor. The top sides are good. Those at the bottom are dire. Are the divisions below worse than us?
We're 10th at the moment, so on the evidence so far this season, there are plenty of sides worse than us.
We are capable of being absolutely shit - which is exactly how we've been for at least three years now - but we are nothing like one of the worst sides in the league.
For starters, though we frequently look about as creative as Liam Gallagher trying to come up with some lyrics, we have at least become more resilient at the back. If we were as creatively void as we are now plus as shit at the back as we were last season, then we probably would be in the relegation scrap.
We are currently 10th, one place behind Tottenham, and ahead of our Brazil 1970 near neighbours.
Our inability to keep the ball, pass it, or create many chances, combined with our misfiring best player and our several players who have regressed after a tough first season - all these things are very worrying, but to read some of the comments, you'd think we were in the relegation places.
You have to be fucking shit to get relegated from this league. The fact that we are mid table does not make us good. Let's all be honest about things.
You were the one who brought up staying in this league. I also didn't say we were good.
It's possible to think we're capable of playing very poorly - as we did today - but not think we need to worry about relegation this season.
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Our misfiring top player not only has an affect on the fans but it has an affect on his teammates. I'm sure they all want to see the other Benteke as much as we do. It would make all of the hard work in getting us defensively sound well worth it. To think that we were shit and beyond repair is so depressing to read. Someone even suggested in the match thread that we weren't as good as West Ham because they'd just beaten Fulham 3-0. Because I must have missed where West Ham started the day 3rd in the league and not in the bottom three. It's not great but not close to as shit as some people are fainting over.
Were you at the game?
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Our misfiring top player not only has an affect on the fans but it has an affect on his teammates. I'm sure they all want to see the other Benteke as much as we do. It would make all of the hard work in getting us defensively sound well worth it. To think that we were shit and beyond repair is so depressing to read. Someone even suggested in the match thread that we weren't as good as West Ham because they'd just beaten Fulham 3-0. Because I must have missed where West Ham started the day 3rd in the league and not in the bottom three. It's not great but not close to as shit as some people are fainting over.
Were you at the game?
I watched it. What the hell does it matter whether i was there in person or not?
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We have had some dull periods but usually when there has been some hope of getting back into the top echelons. At the moment, I keep wondering how we can stay in the Premier League. We are poor. The top sides are good. Those at the bottom are dire. Are the divisions below worse than us?
We're 10th at the moment, so on the evidence so far this season, there are plenty of sides worse than us.
We are capable of being absolutely shit - which is exactly how we've been for at least three years now - but we are nothing like one of the worst sides in the league.
For starters, though we frequently look about as creative as Liam Gallagher trying to come up with some lyrics, we have at least become more resilient at the back. If we were as creatively void as we are now plus as shit at the back as we were last season, then we probably would be in the relegation scrap.
We are currently 10th, one place behind Tottenham, and ahead of our Brazil 1970 near neighbours.
Our inability to keep the ball, pass it, or create many chances, combined with our misfiring best player and our several players who have regressed after a tough first season - all these things are very worrying, but to read some of the comments, you'd think we were in the relegation places.
You have to be fucking shit to get relegated from this league. The fact that we are mid table does not make us good. Let's all be honest about things.
You were the one who brought up staying in this league. I also didn't say we were good.
It's possible to think we're capable of playing very poorly - as we did today - but not think we need to worry about relegation this season.
Not being relegation fodder is not being successful. Here we are again bickering about things. Is anybody happy?
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Our misfiring top player not only has an affect on the fans but it has an affect on his teammates. I'm sure they all want to see the other Benteke as much as we do. It would make all of the hard work in getting us defensively sound well worth it. To think that we were shit and beyond repair is so depressing to read. Someone even suggested in the match thread that we weren't as good as West Ham because they'd just beaten Fulham 3-0. Because I must have missed where West Ham started the day 3rd in the league and not in the bottom three. It's not great but not close to as shit as some people are fainting over.
Were you at the game?
I watched it. What the hell does it matter whether i was there in person or not?
Only a question. Thanks for answering.
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We have had some dull periods but usually when there has been some hope of getting back into the top echelons. At the moment, I keep wondering how we can stay in the Premier League. We are poor. The top sides are good. Those at the bottom are dire. Are the divisions below worse than us?
We're 10th at the moment, so on the evidence so far this season, there are plenty of sides worse than us.
We are capable of being absolutely shit - which is exactly how we've been for at least three years now - but we are nothing like one of the worst sides in the league.
For starters, though we frequently look about as creative as Liam Gallagher trying to come up with some lyrics, we have at least become more resilient at the back. If we were as creatively void as we are now plus as shit at the back as we were last season, then we probably would be in the relegation scrap.
We are currently 10th, one place behind Tottenham, and ahead of our Brazil 1970 near neighbours.
Our inability to keep the ball, pass it, or create many chances, combined with our misfiring best player and our several players who have regressed after a tough first season - all these things are very worrying, but to read some of the comments, you'd think we were in the relegation places.
You have to be fucking shit to get relegated from this league. The fact that we are mid table does not make us good. Let's all be honest about things.
You were the one who brought up staying in this league. I also didn't say we were good.
It's possible to think we're capable of playing very poorly - as we did today - but not think we need to worry about relegation this season.
Not being relegation fodder is not being successful. Here we are again bickering about things. Is anybody happy?
I know it isn't, I didn't say it was, so I'm not entirely sure why you're acting like I did. I'm not happy with us being shit, either, I am just pointing out that talk of relegation is somewhat over the top. You were the one who brought it up, I wouldn't even have mentioned it otherwise.
If you want to deduct from that that I am really happy with the way things are going, then I can't really stop you, but I can't see why you think anyone would be happy with a gigantic serving of guff like today.
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Our misfiring top player not only has an affect on the fans but it has an affect on his teammates. I'm sure they all want to see the other Benteke as much as we do. It would make all of the hard work in getting us defensively sound well worth it. To think that we were shit and beyond repair is so depressing to read. Someone even suggested in the match thread that we weren't as good as West Ham because they'd just beaten Fulham 3-0. Because I must have missed where West Ham started the day 3rd in the league and not in the bottom three. It's not great but not close to as shit as some people are fainting over.
Were you at the game?
I watched it. What the hell does it matter whether i was there in person or not?
Only a question. Thanks for answering.
What was the point of the question? Were you trying to establish how worthy a fan I am to be involved in this discussion?
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I think he only likes it when McLeish is in charge.
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Our misfiring top player not only has an affect on the fans but it has an affect on his teammates. I'm sure they all want to see the other Benteke as much as we do. It would make all of the hard work in getting us defensively sound well worth it. To think that we were shit and beyond repair is so depressing to read. Someone even suggested in the match thread that we weren't as good as youWest Ham because they'd just beaten Fulham 3-0. Because I must have missed where West Ham started the day 3rd in the league and not in the bottom three. It's not great but not close to as shit as some people are fainting over.
Were you at the game?
What a shite comment. Why does that matter? I disagree with you yet I was at the game.
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By large, I think we've been dreadfully boring this season. I enjoyed the first game, Chelsea was ok, the second half of the Liverpool game too. I quite enjoyed Rotherham in the cup.
Besides, this, the second half against Man City, the first half against Everton and....that's about it. I've watched pretty much every game in their entirety, I feel that the games against Norwich, Hull, West Ham and yesterday were simply drab and ridiculously uninteresting. I'm glad when we don't lose, but living abroad, I must watch most games online and I find most of the time, I'm writing emails or checking the internet, not even watching the Villa. I simply to listen to it passively. This is the first time in my Villa supporting life that I've taken such little interest of what is going on on my computer screen.
However, I'll be home for Christmas and will be taking my dad and sisters Cardiff supporting fiance along to the Palace and Swansea games.
Up the Villa!
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I think the point we have to mull over stats and pick them to the bare bones looking for shreds of evidence that prove otherwise tells me we are a boring side. There may be another 6 sides or s shitter in the league than us but I don't care, I don't have to watch them and would rather there were 19 sides shitter than us. I'm more concerned with the terrible football we play, lack of chances, lack of flair, lack of ability.
How many times have you left the match this season and thought yeah good game, so and so's a real player? . How many times have you left the game and came up with reasons why the performance doesn't matter?
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We are boring, we are predictable and whilst in patches yesterday we at least tried, the lack of any real quality in the side and a misfiring Benteke means it will not change in the short term.
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Our misfiring top player not only has an affect on the fans but it has an affect on his teammates. I'm sure they all want to see the other Benteke as much as we do. It would make all of the hard work in getting us defensively sound well worth it. To think that we were shit and beyond repair is so depressing to read. Someone even suggested in the match thread that we weren't as good as West Ham because they'd just beaten Fulham 3-0. Because I must have missed where West Ham started the day 3rd in the league and not in the bottom three. It's not great but not close to as shit as some people are fainting over.
Were you at the game?
I watched it. What the hell does it matter whether i was there in person or not?
Only a question. Thanks for answering.
What was the point of the question? Were you trying to establish how worthy a fan I am to be involved in this discussion?
Thanks for assuming I was calling you a lesser fan, and announcing it on more than one forum. Everyone that I spoke to after the game, and there were many of them, all thought it was a crap performance. I just wondered how you could have thought so differently than the majority of people there. However you watched the game, how did you manage to come to the conclusion that it was not shit?
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Our misfiring top player not only has an affect on the fans but it has an affect on his teammates. I'm sure they all want to see the other Benteke as much as we do. It would make all of the hard work in getting us defensively sound well worth it. To think that we were shit and beyond repair is so depressing to read. Someone even suggested in the match thread that we weren't as good as West Ham because they'd just beaten Fulham 3-0. Because I must have missed where West Ham started the day 3rd in the league and not in the bottom three. It's not great but not close to as shit as some people are fainting over.
Were you at the game?
I watched it. What the hell does it matter whether i was there in person or not?
Only a question. Thanks for answering.
What was the point of the question? Were you trying to establish how worthy a fan I am to be involved in this discussion?
Thanks for assuming I was calling you a lesser fan, and announcing it on more than one forum. Everyone that I spoke to after the game, and there were many of them, all thought it was a crap performance. I just wondered how you could have thought so differently than the majority of people there. However you watched the game, how did you manage to come to the conclusion that it was not shit?
There was a million other ways you could have asked that question without it coming over the way that it did. Yes, I watched it. Yes, I thought it was shit. What I find bizarre is how you have come to the conclusion from any of my posts that I saw it any differently.
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Our misfiring top player not only has an affect on the fans but it has an affect on his teammates. I'm sure they all want to see the other Benteke as much as we do. It would make all of the hard work in getting us defensively sound well worth it. To think that we were shit and beyond repair is so depressing to read. Someone even suggested in the match thread that we weren't as good as West Ham because they'd just beaten Fulham 3-0. Because I must have missed where West Ham started the day 3rd in the league and not in the bottom three. It's not great but not close to as shit as some people are fainting over.
Were you at the game?
I watched it. What the hell does it matter whether i was there in person or not?
Only a question. Thanks for answering.
What was the point of the question? Were you trying to establish how worthy a fan I am to be involved in this discussion?
Thanks for assuming I was calling you a lesser fan, and announcing it on more than one forum. Everyone that I spoke to after the game, and there were many of them, all thought it was a crap performance. I just wondered how you could have thought so differently than the majority of people there. However you watched the game, how did you manage to come to the conclusion that it was not shit?
There was a million other ways you could have asked that question without it coming over the way that it did. Yes, I watched it. Yes, I thought it was shit. What I find bizarre is how you have come to the conclusion from any of my posts that I saw it any differently.
It came over how you wanted to read it. I get asked 'are you going' or 'did you go' all the time and it never sets me off in a tantrum.
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I really don't care Dave to be honest. I wasn't the only one to interpret it that way. I don't recall you asking paulie if he went to the game earlier in the thread. So why me? If you disagreed with my view that's fine. That's why we're here. But you didn't challenge my view which would have been the logical thing to do.
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'You have to be fucking shit to get relegated from this league. The fact that we are mid table does not make us good. Let's all be honest about things.'
That's what I said to Paulie. Pick a hole in that. It was not a go at him, just a statement.
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I really don't care Dave to be honest. I wasn't the only one to interpret it that way. I don't recall you asking paulie if he went to the game earlier in the thread. So why me? If you disagreed with my view that's fine. That's why we're here. But you didn't challenge my view which would have been the logical thing to do.
I was, and still am, challenging you view that we were 'not close to as shit as some people are fainting over'.
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'You have to be fucking shit to get relegated from this league. The fact that we are mid table does not make us good. Let's all be honest about things.'
That's what I said to Paulie. Pick a hole in that. It was not a go at him, just a statement.
So you asked him a question and not whether he was at the game. No difference at all with what you asked me is there?
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I really don't care Dave to be honest. I wasn't the only one to interpret it that way. I don't recall you asking paulie if he went to the game earlier in the thread. So why me? If you disagreed with my view that's fine. That's why we're here. But you didn't challenge my view which would have been the logical thing to do.
I was, and still am, challenging you view that we were 'not close to as shit as some people are fainting over'.
Sorry, when did you ask me that? Because I don't seem to see it reading back over the last couple of pages. Can you please point that out for me.
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'You have to be fucking shit to get relegated from this league. The fact that we are mid table does not make us good. Let's all be honest about things.'
That's what I said to Paulie. Pick a hole in that. It was not a go at him, just a statement.
That's fair enough, but you specifically asked Toronto Villa if he was at the game, which you know he wasn't, as he's 3000 miles away.
You did indeed say to me what you quoted above, which is fine, that's what we're all happy arguing about, but there's really no need to throw in the "were you there" rhetorical question like you did to him.
It smacks a bit of "better fan than you". You're a better fan than everyone else on here in that sense, then, because we know your commitment to going to the matches is absolutely phenomenal (even borderline mental, ;-) ), but we don't let that whole better fan thing go on here for a reason - because it's not fair, and it just ends in gigantic rows.
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And that's the thing paulie. i am well aware of DC5's commitment to the club and would never, ever question it. I have read and agreed with much of his input over the years. I found it completely unnecessary for someone of his repute to have asked that question.
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And that's the thing paulie. i am well aware of DC5's commitment to the club and would never, ever question it. I have read and agreed with much of his input over the years. I found it completely unnecessary for someone of his repute to have asked that question.
'You have to be fucking shit to get relegated from this league. The fact that we are mid table does not make us good. Let's all be honest about things.'
That's what I said to Paulie. Pick a hole in that. It was not a go at him, just a statement.
That's fair enough, but you specifically asked Toronto Villa if he was at the game, which you know he wasn't, as he's 3000 miles away.
You did indeed say to me what you quoted above, which is fine, that's what we're all happy arguing about, but there's really no need to throw in the "were you there" rhetorical question like you did to him.
It smacks a bit of "better fan than you". You're a better fan than everyone else on here in that sense, then, because we know your commitment to going to the matches is absolutely phenomenal (even borderline mental, ;-) ), but we don't let that whole better fan thing go on here for a reason - because it's not fair, and it just ends in gigantic rows.
No need for all that. You are making a lot more of it that you need to. This place is turning into a Kangaroo Court.
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And that's the thing paulie. i am well aware of DC5's commitment to the club and would never, ever question it. I have read and agreed with much of his input over the years. I found it completely unnecessary for someone of his repute to have asked that question.
'You have to be fucking shit to get relegated from this league. The fact that we are mid table does not make us good. Let's all be honest about things.'
That's what I said to Paulie. Pick a hole in that. It was not a go at him, just a statement.
That's fair enough, but you specifically asked Toronto Villa if he was at the game, which you know he wasn't, as he's 3000 miles away.
You did indeed say to me what you quoted above, which is fine, that's what we're all happy arguing about, but there's really no need to throw in the "were you there" rhetorical question like you did to him.
It smacks a bit of "better fan than you". You're a better fan than everyone else on here in that sense, then, because we know your commitment to going to the matches is absolutely phenomenal (even borderline mental, ;-) ), but we don't let that whole better fan thing go on here for a reason - because it's not fair, and it just ends in gigantic rows.
No need for all that. You are making a lot more of it that you need to. This place is turning into a Kangaroo Court.
Bit of an exaggeration, surely?
It's not a kangaroo court, I took pains to explain it in a non-confrontational way.
It's just a reflection that it came across as a dig at the fact he wasn't at the game, which is something we'd pull everyone up for, and is the sort of thing we don't need.
That is all it is.
I suggest we draw a line under it now and move on?
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At the moment we are pretty boring.
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I think we have been solidly dull most of this season. Yesterday was particularly dire. However we have done alright points wise out of it.
On the bright side, I wonder if we have had our bad patch already in the league and we may actually do well over the Christmas/new year period unlike our collapse last season.
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It's such a fine line sometimes though, as early goals change games and draws teams out which then suits us. We are going through a bit of stale patch, but we are up on points in comparison from matches from last season,have more points than this time last year and have a good run of games coming up. At least the defense isn't a laughing stock compared to last season and once Benteke is fully fit things will improve at the other end.
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It's such a fine line sometimes though, as early goals change games and draws teams out which then suits us.
It can also work the other way. I almost wanted Sunderland to score yesterday just to get us to wake up, come out ourselves and actually turn up.
Right now, 'boring' flatters us. I don't believe it's the lack of ability of the players, more the lack of a leader on the pitch and the general lack of tactics. Obviously confidence isn't at it's highest but as you say, it's a fine line and one solid performance can see us back on track, playing to our real potential. Yesterday was a massive opportunity lost to do just that.
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Wouldn't it be nice to have good results over the Christmas period for a change? I can't remember the last time we did, don't we normally have horror fixtures around December and New year?
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We have a very good run over xmas....Stoke, Palace, Swansea, Sunderland. We really should be looking for 8 points at least from that but we won't get that with the "performance" yesterday.
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Back to back 0-0 draws over Christmas would be a big improvement and much improved result wise over last year. And the answer to the OP's question would be a resounding "yes".
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It's such a fine line sometimes though, as early goals change games and draws teams out which then suits us.
It can also work the other way. I almost wanted Sunderland to score yesterday just to get us to wake up, come out ourselves and actually turn up.
Right now, 'boring' flatters us. I don't believe it's the lack of ability of the players, more the lack of a leader on the pitch and the general lack of tactics. Obviously confidence isn't at it's highest but as you say, it's a fine line and one solid performance can see us back on track, playing to our real potential. Yesterday was a massive opportunity lost to do just that.
Decent summary - I just didn`t get why Benteke was apparantly so disinterested - if he is injured then dont play him.
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I wouldn't say boring, unexciting, uninspiring, sometimes one dimensional yes, boring no. We simply don't have the players with the flair or the experience to take control of a game, change things and play an expansive game.
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Don't blame the manager , doing his best, don't blame the players their doing their best. but when the market is such that a team that spends £107 million and not in the top 4, then I think its safe to say, we are lagging behind. you can not expect bargain buys to compete with, the multi million pound players.
our future aint so Bright Mr Lerner.
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We must have the most 0-0s of any team so far this season. I must say, it's not what I expected this season to be - either in terms of lack of goals scored or in terms of an almost superabundance of clean sheets.
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I think it could get more boring too as there is a gap forming between 10th and 9th so essentially we'll be battling for a tenth place finish at best unless we go on a massive run.
That doesn't sound massively exciting although a safe tenth is definitely progress compared to previous years.
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I think you'd have to say we've been pretty boring this season
We need more creative players to become more interesting, regardless of formation.
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At the end of the season I will be happy with a boring 9th or 10th finish and a very solid position to build again from in 2014/2015. When you consider we will be sans Ireland, and most likely Given, Bent, Hutton, N'Zogbia by then it will be as stable a position as almost any club in the league. The litmus test will then what we do beyond that because going into year three and the club very much built by Lambert there will be much more expectation of better results and performances, and a significant upturn in our fortunes at home.
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At the end of the season I will be happy with a boring 9th or 10th finish and a very solid position to build again from in 2014/2015. When you consider we will be sans Ireland, and most likely Given, Bent, Hutton, N'Zogbia by then it will be as stable a position as almost any club in the league. The litmus test will then what we do beyond that because going into year three and the club very much built by Lambert there will be much more expectation of better results and performances, and a significant upturn in our fortunes at home.
I think next year is the final year of his contract - will be interesting to see if the club wait until then or offer him a new deal in the summer - I would prefer them to wait and see where we are in another year .
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Put another way, does anyone get an adrenaline rush while driving to a match these days because I don't - in fact, many games I go to purely because I have a ST!
Is that a boring outfit ? I dunno ... for me, it's more sort of 'lacking in as much interest' as it once did.
"It" being 'going to home matches'.
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I heard Rodney Marsh today . He said Fulham will be ok as their are another absolute 7 shite teams in the league . We will be ok ;)
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At the end of the season I will be happy with a boring 9th or 10th finish and a very solid position to build again from in 2014/2015. When you consider we will be sans Ireland, and most likely Given, Bent, Hutton, N'Zogbia by then it will be as stable a position as almost any club in the league. The litmus test will then what we do beyond that because going into year three and the club very much built by Lambert there will be much more expectation of better results and performances, and a significant upturn in our fortunes at home.
I think next year is the final year of his contract - will be interesting to see if the club wait until then or offer him a new deal in the summer - I would prefer them to wait and see where we are in another year .
Lambert has already said it doesn't bother him at all about his own contract. It's about the team. I'm sure the board, having made the investment in this decision and the direction of the club will want to keep Lambert and Lambert will want to stay. I cannot imagine for one second there is an appetite for more upheaval or change in the manager position outside of a massive downturn in our fortunes which would force it.
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At the end of the season I will be happy with a boring 9th or 10th finish and a very solid position to build again from in 2014/2015. When you consider we will be sans Ireland, and most likely Given, Bent, Hutton, N'Zogbia by then it will be as stable a position as almost any club in the league. The litmus test will then what we do beyond that because going into year three and the club very much built by Lambert there will be much more expectation of better results and performances, and a significant upturn in our fortunes at home.
I think next year is the final year of his contract - will be interesting to see if the club wait until then or offer him a new deal in the summer - I would prefer them to wait and see where we are in another year .
Lambert has already said it doesn't bother him at all about his own contract. It's about the team. I'm sure the board, having made the investment in this decision and the direction of the club will want to keep Lambert and Lambert will want to stay. I cannot imagine for one second there is an appetite for more upheaval or change in the manager position outside of a massive downturn in our fortunes which would force it.
I think they will wait till at least next summer and see how things have gone - a midtable finish will probably be enough for a new deal .
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Well that was boring.
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At times, we show all the passing quality of a bunch of 12 year olds, and look totally devoid of ideas.
Like tonight.
But then we go and win, somehow.
Like I said earlier, we are frequently a very poor side indeed, but fuck me, we're anything but boring.
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We were boring on Saturday.
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We were boring on Saturday.
Being boring on any one given occasion doesn't mean it's a label that fits in general.
Boring on Saturday, shit today yet winning and scoring two very impressive goals, winning at Arsenal, beating Man City, then looking devoid of ideas at Hull.
The overall picture is anything but boring, even if on occasion we're truly horrible to watch.
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I just scratch my head at how in Lambert's 18 months in charge we've probably had 10 incredible entertaining games away from home and about two at home.
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We may not eventually win anything, and we are anything but easy on the eye, but my god we have some great fun at times, exciting wins, great goals, surely what football is all about. I genuinely have never seen a premier league team post a stat of anything like as low as 23% possession over an entire match, but as Lambert said we'll take the three points! I still havent calmed down yet!
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We may not eventually win anything, and we are anything but easy on the eye, but my god we have some great fun at times, exciting wins, great goals, surely what football is all about. I genuinely have never seen a premier league team post a stat of anything like as low as 23% possession over an entire match, but as Lambert said we'll take the three points! I still havent calmed down yet!
Before any given game, I have absolutely no idea if we are going to win or not, or whether we'll look like Bayern Munich or the Munich and District Paper Boys XI.
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I fancy us for a cup under Lambert. Much as he screwed the pooch with Bradford, I think we could beat anyone on a given day and we're a hard working side who keep on fighting.
They should start etching our name on the FA Cup right now.
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I fancy us for a cup under Lambert. Much as he screwed the pooch with Bradford, I think we could beat anyone on a given day and we're a hard working side who keep on fighting.
They should start etching our name on the FA Cup right now.
Would be delighted with the FA Cup.
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I would say we're one dimensional but we can still be entertaining when given space to exploit in behind teams. It all depends on how the other team sets up for me. I don't think it's that astounding that we manage to win games like last night when we're one of the best if not the best counter attacking team in the league. If we go a goal behind in the game last night though we're the sort of team that the rest of the game can make for very painful viewing as our gameplan and ability to pass short rather than direct is nigh on non existent.
However, I am becoming slightly concerned over how reliant we are becoming on counter attacking. Watching last night it seemed clear to me we were actually going out of our way to give them the ball back so they could push up on to us rather than us being that poor at keeping the ball.
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I wouldn't say we're boring, but we do need to address our recent slide towards giving away possession all of the time.
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I fancy us for a cup under Lambert. Much as he screwed the pooch with Bradford, I think we could beat anyone on a given day and we're a hard working side who keep on fighting.
They should start etching our name on the FA Cup right now.
Would be delighted with the FA Cup.
The FA Cup and 8th would be a very, very solid season and a tremendous platform from which to build from.
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I fancy us for a cup under Lambert. Much as he screwed the pooch with Bradford, I think we could beat anyone on a given day and we're a hard working side who keep on fighting.
They should start etching our name on the FA Cup right now.
Would be delighted with the FA Cup.
The FA Cup and 8th would be a very, very solid season and a tremendous platform from which to build from.
That would be, quite frankly, an INCREDIBLE season.
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Soild as in "Best for more than thirty years."
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I fancy us for a cup under Lambert. Much as he screwed the pooch with Bradford, I think we could beat anyone on a given day and we're a hard working side who keep on fighting.
They should start etching our name on the FA Cup right now.
Would be delighted with the FA Cup.
The FA Cup and 8th would be a very, very solid season and a tremendous platform from which to build from.
That would be, quite frankly, an INCREDIBLE season.
I've had many an issue with Lambert since he joined but if he won us the FA Cup he would by default become my all time favourite Villa manager. This is the trophy I want more than any other. I think I'd die and contented and happy man once we have won the FA bloody Cup.
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I've had many an issue with Lambert since he joined but if he won us the FA Cup he would by default become my all time favourite Villa manager. This is the trophy I want more than any other. I think I'd die and contented and happy man once we have won the FA bloody Cup.
I'd take a 17th in the league if it meant getting the FA cup
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The definition of boring guarantees that we are not it. Would anyone be surprised if we won 4-0 at Fulham? Or lost 4-0? Or drew 0-0? Will we play with pace, passing and movement and look unstoppable? Or will we have the passing ability of Pelsall Villa?
If we were boring we would have a good idea which it would be, me, I don't have a clue. And I doubt anyone else does either. Which means we aren't boring.
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The definition of boring guarantees that we are not it. Would anyone be surprised if we won 4-0 at Fulham? Or lost 4-0? Or drew 0-0? Will we play with pace, passing and movement and look unstoppable? Or will we have the passing ability of Pelsall Villa?
If we were boring we would have a good idea which it would be, me, I don't have a clue. And I doubt anyone else does either. Which means we aren't boring.
I pray that in 2-3 years we are boring as shit in that we know going into every game we will very likely win. It will make it a lot easier to plan my weekends because I'll know what mood to bein. It will also be a benefit to Mrs TV and the kids.
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if he won us the FA Cup he would by default become my all time favourite Villa manager. This is the trophy I want more than any other. I think I'd die and contented and happy man once we have won the FA bloody Cup.
I don't often agree with you but on this score I'd agree.
Ever since I started following the Villa in 1978 when we held the record for most wins, it's the one I've wanted to win.
Winning the League etc didn't register as I was only 9 at the time but it was all about the magic of the FA Cup.
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if he won us the FA Cup he would by default become my all time favourite Villa manager. This is the trophy I want more than any other. I think I'd die and contented and happy man once we have won the FA bloody Cup.
I don't often agree with you but on this score I'd agree.
It's the one I want as well.
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Stoke-Cardiff was a classic last night wasn't it?
Those two aren't even the most boring teams in the league as that's comfortably West Ham.
We've been involved in some shite games this season but we're a long way from most boring team in the league.
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I've had many an issue with Lambert since he joined but if he won us the FA Cup he would by default become my all time favourite Villa manager. This is the trophy I want more than any other. I think I'd die and contented and happy man once we have won the FA bloody Cup.
I'd take a 17th in the league if it meant getting the FA cup
I'd take 17th in the Conference if it meant getting the FA Cup
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I've had many an issue with Lambert since he joined but if he won us the FA Cup he would by default become my all time favourite Villa manager. This is the trophy I want more than any other. I think I'd die and contented and happy man once we have won the FA bloody Cup.
I'd take a 17th in the league if it meant getting the FA cup
I'd take 17th in the Conference if it meant getting the FA Cup
Are we in it this year then ?
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We should have bloody won it that last time it was at the old Wembley, god we was boring that day.
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We should have bloody won it that last time it was at the old Wembley, god we was boring that day.
That for many of us is why we need to win it. That day seems so empty. So many hopes left high and dry by such an inept performance. A demon that needs exorcising.
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We should have bloody won it that last time it was at the old Wembley, god we was boring that day.
That for many of us is why we need to win it. That day seems so empty. So many hopes left high and dry by such an inept performance. A demon that needs exorcising.
Nail on the head! I'd been waiting for that day all my life and it was such a let down. I'd give a major organ to see us win the FA Cup.
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We had a great chance to win the FA Cup last year but we got knocked out by fucking Millwall only a few days after the most humiliating defeat (Bradford) I hope I ever witness. I just want us to win a cup, any cup will do :(
To answer the question "Are we a boring outfit?", I'd say, yes, at times but overall, no, we're very unpredictable.
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We should have bloody won it that last time it was at the old Wembley, god we was boring that day.
That for many of us is why we need to win it. That day seems so empty. So many hopes left high and dry by such an inept performance. A demon that needs exorcising.
If ever I felt the phrase 'Our name is on the cup' it was then for sure. A really horrible display, please please lets try and win it this year. If we can at least give it a go.
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I've had many an issue with Lambert since he joined but if he won us the FA Cup he would by default become my all time favourite Villa manager. This is the trophy I want more than any other. I think I'd die and contented and happy man once we have won the FA bloody Cup.
I'd take a 17th in the league if it meant getting the FA cup
I'd take 17th in the Conference if it meant getting the FA Cup
Are we in it this year then ?
Yep, we're in the 3rd round!
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Put another way, does anyone get an adrenaline rush while driving to a match these days because I don't - in fact, many games I go to purely because I have a ST!
Is that a boring outfit ? I dunno ... for me, it's more sort of 'lacking in as much interest' as it once did.
"It" being 'going to home matches'.
If you don't get an adrenaline rush going to villa park then you should pack it in mate I have been going since 1967 and the adrenaline rush will never go Away ,the feeling I get is magical and I am 54 now and I am like a big kid going to his first game no matter who the opposition is and what division we are playing I have seen us I the 3rd div which was our 1st step on the yellow brick road to Rotterdam. Villa till I die
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Sorry folks that was a reply to Tim the villains question on a iPad so copy and paste never worked
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I would not describe us as boring, we are not an attractive team either. I would love to see us play like we did at the end of last season.
We can be pretty exciting at times.