Is this what transition looks like?

[taylorsworkrate]

Arsenal
Hull (not that we have anything to compare that with)
Man City

Two very good three pointers and one dour draw.

Norwich?

We beat Norwich last year

We conceded at Norwich last year. We have played three games away from home since August and not conceded. That is a vast improvement on last season.

Depends on whether you believe 1-0 to be a better score than 2-1.

I prefer 2-1.

[pauliewalnuts]

We conceded at Norwich last year. We have played three games away from home since August and not conceded. That is a vast improvement on last season.

I think that's countered by the fact we've not scored in any of our last four matches.

I think it is a long way from the time to panic at the moment, and I too do not want to understate the win at Arsenal or against Man City, but I totally understand why people look at a lot of our performances and reflect that there's not much of a qualitative improvement even if there is a quantitative one (ie points v fixtures last year).

I too thought we were done by the ref at Chelsea and deserved a point at the very, very least, but I can also see how sooner or later the whole "did well against Liverpool", "looked decent against Everton", "improvement against Spurs compared to last year" thing is going to wear thin with people when we keep coming out of these matches without any points.

I thought Kendrick's article as quoted in this thread was very good.

People will stick behind him, but it is not an unbreakable bond, there needs to be something coming out of it.

It is easy to dismiss the McLeish comparisons because the club is in a different place these days, and the two managers have a different ethos, but watching us play at West Ham on Saturday, I thought we spent almost the entire match sitting back, defending and hoofing long, hopeful balls at Benteke.

A point at West Ham is not a terrible result, but it was a pretty grim display and a throwback to the sort of football that played such a large part in securing people's support for Lambert in the first place (ie "just don't have us playing like the last bloke did, and you'll start off with a decent block of support").

I will be with you when it comes to dismissing the wider Lambert = McLeish thing, because it is a lazy comparison that doesn't bear much examination, but I entirely understand why people will have seen that performance on Saturday and spotted some similarities, and it was far from the first time we've been like that this season.

[Concrete John]

A point at West Ham is not a terrible result, but it was a pretty grim display and a throwback to the sort of football that played such a large part in securing people's support for Lambert in the first place (ie "just don't have us playing like the last bloke did, and you'll start off with a decent block of support").

I think the difference is that under McLeish they we sent out to play that way.  With Lambert, it's more of a case of just not playing very well.  The fact that we can now play poorly and not get a tonking is to the manager's credit, yet some, and I'm not saying you in particular, seem to be using it as a neagtive.  And that simply baffles me.

[Chico Hamilton III]

So we beat Arsenal and that means we're improving on last year. Applying that logic, does that means that Arsenal are worse than they were last year because they lost to us?

Should somebody tell them?

[Concrete John]

Only if you care about Arsenal.  I do not.

[Chico Hamilton III]

Ok

[Concrete John]

Seriously though, If we were talking about one isolated result in beating Arsenal, then that wouldn't be evidence of improvement.  We've had 3 or four games out of 10 where we've done that, so it is.  At least for me, anyway.

I'd hazard a guess that Arsenal have also picked up more points from corresponding games last season, despite us beating them, so have improved as you'd expect from league leaders.

 

[Ads]

Only if you care about Arsenal.  I do not.

Somebody should make a song to that.

[Clampy]

A mate of mine said to me at the start of the season 'I can't see anyone murdering us this season' and apart from Spurs in the cup, he's been right so far. We do look a lot solider. All the defenders have improved on last season. It's just the home form holding us back.

[sirlordbaltimore]

We conceded at Norwich last year

JHC, well we scored two their last season, so i assume that means it's also a massive downturn on last season ?

[sirlordbaltimore]

I think the difference is that under McLeish they we sent out to play that way.  With Lambert, it's more of a case of just not playing very well.

So

a) you don't think Lambert purposefly sent us out against West Ham with basically an 8 man defence against a team with no recognized striker
b) but if McLeish had done exactly the same you'd have claimed it was intentional

that's some odd conclusions to my mind

[eastie]

A mate of mine said to me at the start of the season 'I can't see anyone murdering us this season' and apart from Spurs in the cup, he's been right so far. We do look a lot solider. All the defenders have improved on last season. It's just the home form holding us back.

This is correct , defensively we look better , midfield Delph apart we look poor and the forward line is basically benteke .

Last season in our good spell Weimann and gabby were scoring goals too and we looked potent , this season both have been poor in the main, add to that Westwood and Lowton both struggling for form .

Vlaar and Clark look much better this season so its swings and roundabouts - we have improved but I would say not vastly as some may suggest - as I said earlier the next 3 games will be huge either giving us a solid top 10 base on which to build confidence and progress , or if they go against us we could be in another scrap towards the bottom- it's too soon yet to make any conclusive judgement.

[Clampy]

I think the difference is that under McLeish they we sent out to play that way.  With Lambert, it's more of a case of just not playing very well.

a) you don't think Lambert purposefly sent us out against West Ham with basically an 8 man defence against a team with no recognized striker

We were also playing against a team who were very likely to pack the midfield and could afford to throw two or three of them into the box, which they did. If Benteke puts his two chances away, the so called 8 man defence wouldn't have been mentioned.

[taylorsworkrate]

I'd say that there's been a slight improvement, but that we are becoming quite a boring team.

[Concrete John]

I think the difference is that under McLeish they we sent out to play that way.  With Lambert, it's more of a case of just not playing very well.

So

a) you don't think Lambert purposefly sent us out against West Ham with basically an 8 man defence against a team with no recognized striker
b) but if McLeish had done exactly the same you'd have claimed it was intentional

that's some odd conclusions to my mind

It is, if you base it on those two games in isolation.  If you look at the attacking intent we've mainly played with under Lambert and how McLeish has managed his entire career, then not so much.