Is this what transition looks like?

[Concrete John]

I just had a look over at some other Villa forums to see whether we were being optimistic or pessimistic compared to other fans.

People are losing their shit!  Look at some of the threads on vital villa, you'd think we'd just been relegated to league 1 the way some of them are going on.  Is this representative of general opinion?

Me and most of my mates aren't happy with the way things have gone for the last few weeks, but I reckon we can all see enough signs to be cautiously optimistic (given time and the odd signing).  What sort of views have you all encountered away from these forums?  I want to know if im living in a delusional bubble.

For me, and most of those I talk to away from H&V, the general feeling is there's improvement, but nothing to get overly excited about.  Pretty much a 'wait and see' stance.

[sirlordbaltimore]

If you cannot see an improvement in being humiliated 8-0 and being cheated by Kevin Friend then I am not sure it’s a debate worth having if you’re so dogmatic.

But even if we ignore the above, how are the other points garnered this season over last explained away?

Of course it's an improvement on an 8-0 loss in terms of the final result, but we still got nil points and Chelsea still got 3 points. So we've come back with exactly the same, NOTHING (so no improvement where it matters, the points tally). Ditto the Spurs, Liverpool, Everton, Newcastle games. They are still resulted in the same nil points to us. So apologies but I don't get the logic.

The only time we'll know if there has been an improvement 'results wise' will be when the final table is there to see in May. You still don't get extra points for comparing season by season results to my limited knowledge.

But as a long standing supporter (first game Dec '82, 2-4 loss against Liverpool) i think i've got the same right to air an opinion as you or anyone else without being derided.

I can categorically stand with hand on heart and say i don't think we've improved one bit as a 'football side'. In fact if you're only as good as your last outing then we might as well pack for a long hard winter now. Because that performance on Saturday was as bad as i've seen for a long long time. I thought we were toothless and clueless at Upton Park last season (and we were) but this season was a whole new level of awfulness ... "but we got a point!"

Well that's alright then, break out the bunting and lets bake a cake

[Clampy]

If you cannot see an improvement in being humiliated 8-0 and being cheated by Kevin Friend then I am not sure it’s a debate worth having if you’re so dogmatic.

But even if we ignore the above, how are the other points garnered this season over last explained away?

Of course it's an improvement on an 8-0 loss in terms of the final result, but we still got nil points and Chelsea still got 3 points. So we've come back with exactly the same, NOTHING (so no improvement where it matters, the points tally). Ditto the Spurs, Liverpool, Everton, Newcastle games. They are still resulted in the same nil points to us. So apologies but I don't get the logic.

It's the easiest thing in the world to just pick out defeats to suit the argument.

[eastie]

If you cannot see an improvement in being humiliated 8-0 and being cheated by Kevin Friend then I am not sure it’s a debate worth having if you’re so dogmatic.

But even if we ignore the above, how are the other points garnered this season over last explained away?

Of course it's an improvement on an 8-0 loss in terms of the final result, but we still got nil points and Chelsea still got 3 points. So we've come back with exactly the same, NOTHING (so no improvement where it matters, the points tally). Ditto the Spurs, Liverpool, Everton, Newcastle games. They are still resulted in the same nil points to us. So apologies but I don't get the logic.

The only time we'll know if there has been an improvement 'results wise' will be when the final table is there to see in May. You still don't get extra points for comparing season by season results to my limited knowledge.

But as a long standing supporter (first game Dec '82, 2-4 loss against Liverpool) i think i've got the same right to air an opinion as you or anyone else without being derided.

I can categorically stand with hand on heart and say i don't think we've improved one bit as a 'football side'. In fact if you're only as good as your last outing then we might as well pack for a long hard winter now. Because that performance on Saturday was as bad as i've seen for a long long time. I thought we were toothless and clueless at Upton Park last season (and we were) but this season was a whole new level of awfulness ... "but we got a point!"

Well that's alright then, break out the bunting and lets bake a cake

Can we put walnuts and raisins on top of it please

[Concrete John]

The only time we'll know if there has been an improvement 'results wise' will be when the final table is there to see in May. You still don't get extra points for comparing season by season results to my limited knowledge.

Does that not also work in reverse and losing this season where we lost last season shouldn't be viewed as a lack of improvement until May.  Or are we just selecting games where we haven't got better result to prove the argument?

[dave.woodhall]

I just had a look over at some other Villa forums to see whether we were being optimistic or pessimistic compared to other fans.

People are losing their shit!  Look at some of the threads on vital villa, you'd think we'd just been relegated to league 1 the way some of them are going on.  Is this representative of general opinion?

Me and most of my mates aren't happy with the way things have gone for the last few weeks, but I reckon we can all see enough signs to be cautiously optimistic (given time and the odd signing).  What sort of views have you all encountered away from these forums?  I want to know if im living in a delusional bubble.

Forums attract the hysterical, the dramatic and the downright miserable.

[not3bad]

The only time we'll know if there has been an improvement 'results wise' will be when the final table is there to see in May. You still don't get extra points for comparing season by season results to my limited knowledge.

Does that not also work in reverse and losing this season where we lost last season shouldn't be viewed as a lack of improvement until May.  Or are we just selecting games where we haven't got better result to prove the argument?

Obviously the latter, as he's ignored the other improved results that have been pointed out.

[sirlordbaltimore]

Arsenal
Hull (not that we have anything to compare that with)
Man City

Two very good three pointers and one dour draw.

[Clampy]

Arsenal
Hull (not that we have anything to compare that with)
Man City

Two very good three pointers and one dour draw.

Norwich?

[sirlordbaltimore]

Arsenal
Hull (not that we have anything to compare that with)
Man City

Two very good three pointers and one dour draw.

Norwich?

Er, we won at Norwich the same as we did last season ?

[Ads]

I am subverting your opinion, I am asking you to qualify it. I think it’s a nonsensical position to suggest this seasons performance was anything other than entirely improved in every facet at Stamford Bridge. After I left the ground and the anger subsided, I felt pleased about the performance. 9 times out of 10 Chelsea will beat you at Stamford Bridge, but the fact it was two events entirely out of anybody's control but the referee which decided the outcome was galling to say the least.

We were easily the better side. We should have been 2-1 up when Ivanovic was inexplicably left still on the field to score a winner two minutes later. Even then Andi should have bagged another and we should have been awarded the most blatant handball you will likely ever see.

That is looking at one narrow result. I will ask you again, how do you explain the lack of improvement on the games where we have bettered last season's results?

And while we're on about West Ham, the best move and best chance of the game fell to Benteke, who you would back to score those chances more often than not. I think the hyperbole is completely unnecessary and I am completely astounded by anybody who doesn't see the value in picking up a point away from home.

[taylorsworkrate]

Arsenal
Hull (not that we have anything to compare that with)
Man City

Two very good three pointers and one dour draw.

Norwich?

We beat Norwich last year

[Ads]

Arsenal
Hull (not that we have anything to compare that with)
Man City

Two very good three pointers and one dour draw.

Norwich?

We beat Norwich last year

We conceded at Norwich last year. We have played three games away from home since August and not conceded. That is a vast improvement on last season.

[not3bad]

Where we've lost out this season as compared to the second half of last season (and isolated performances like home to Swansea and away to Newcastle) is at keeping the ball.  We seem to have lost the ability to patiently build from the back that we did successfully a few times last season. 

[Clampy]

Arsenal
Hull (not that we have anything to compare that with)
Man City

Two very good three pointers and one dour draw.

Norwich?

Er, we won at Norwich the same as we did last season ?

Yes we did. We also lost at West Ham last season and picked up a point this season. Just comparing results like.