Is this what transition looks like?

[fredm]

[/quote]
Vlaar seems to have bucked up his ideas quite a bit in comparison to last season.
[/quote]

Vlaar has been much better this season.
[/quote]

I think Vlaar probably didn't know what he was letting himself in for last season.  The first season in a new country, playing in a new (and arguably much harder) league, against players who he had probably never faced before. And to be landed with the job of being nursemaid not only to a back four of inexperienced youngsters but also team captain as well. He must have gone home at night and wished he had stayed in Holland!

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I cannot agree with most of that.

There is a very clear plan to turn us around from struggling to stay up on the sub-40 points when Lambert took over, amidst of a budgetary crisis that was inherited over four years of overspend, added to two years of the club pulling in different directions. There aren't many managers in the league who have had to take over and turn around a club under those circumstances.

The focus is clearly on a lot of scouting and homework to identify a certain type of player to fit the system but on the pitch and in terms of the ethos that Lambert is fostering. This is being done while slowly shedding the dead weight that has dragged the club down. By the end of the season there is likely to be an extra £6,240,000 freed up in the wage budget if you estimate Ireland and Bent to be on circa £60,000m p/w.

You have chosen to ignore every sign which tells you the club has moved forward on last season, which in turn moved on from the one before (albeit by smaller margins) then you may well come to the conclusion, erroneously in my opinion, that we're with the bottom feeders forever. I think we're well on target to finish solidly in mid-table between 12-8th positions.

I also don't think you've explained away the contradiction Paulie highlighted, merely reinforced it. The Albion being a smaller club doesn't come into the equation. They have been spending within their means and reaping limited rewards because of this to enable them to finish mid-table. That's what we're looking at doing in the short term. Our bigger size means if we follow this plan for long enough, the rewards may well be greater.

[Gareth]

Vlaar has definitely bucked up - last year I genuinely thought he was the worst regular Villa centre half I had ever seen but he has matched up this year, shame Okore hasn't been around to make it a four centre half competition.  Still wouldn't have him as captain but he doesn't terrify me anymore.

I've been proper down in the dumps about the club since the Everton game, before that I was looking at a mid table finish but I now find myself looking downwards - the reason, Gareth Barry.  I make no apologies that he was always my favourite player because to a lesser degree than God he played part of the game in his head - for me in the Everton game he was exceptional and for the life of me I cannot comprehend that we didn't want that type of experience back in our squad, a centre midfield of Delph & Barry in comparison to KEA (chasing shadows), Westwood (2nd season syndrome?), Sylla (unproven?) - chalk and cheese!  If I was Gary Gardner I would be seeing getting fit as an opportunity, normally being out for as long as he has would see him dropping further down the queue but the others just haven't stepped up.

I come back to a point I made earlier in this thread, we still lack a captain on the field. 

Actually I think we might see an improvement with Weimman out for a couple of weeks, he is another who hasn't pulled up trees this year but he seems to be largely undroppable....an extra body in midfield might even see us get 50/50 in possession.....

cmon Villa, win on Saturday and get me looking back upwards :-)

[brontebilly]

I cannot agree with most of that.

There is a very clear plan to turn us around from struggling to stay up on the sub-40 points when Lambert took over, amidst of a budgetary crisis that was inherited over four years of overspend, added to two years of the club pulling in different directions. There aren't many managers in the league who have had to take over and turn around a club under those circumstances.

The focus is clearly on a lot of scouting and homework to identify a certain type of player to fit the system but on the pitch and in terms of the ethos that Lambert is fostering. This is being done while slowly shedding the dead weight that has dragged the club down. By the end of the season there is likely to be an extra £6,240,000 freed up in the wage budget if you estimate Ireland and Bent to be on circa £60,000m p/w.

You have chosen to ignore every sign which tells you the club has moved forward on last season, which in turn moved on from the one before (albeit by smaller margins) then you may well come to the conclusion, erroneously in my opinion, that we're with the bottom feeders forever. I think we're well on target to finish solidly in mid-table between 12-8th positions.

I also don't think you've explained away the contradiction Paulie highlighted, merely reinforced it. The Albion being a smaller club doesn't come into the equation. They have been spending within their means and reaping limited rewards because of this to enable them to finish mid-table. That's what we're looking at doing in the short term. Our bigger size means if we follow this plan for long enough, the rewards may well be greater.

are you sure there is a very clear plan? the club seemed to want to go in a different direction after MON left alright but still decided to buy Ireland, Given, Makoun, Bent, Nzogbia, Hutton afterwards. With the mantra being for top players we would still pay decent money but while still trying to bring down the average age of the squad and the wage bill. The Lambert era seems to have been one to continue this without making big money signings. Yet when Dunne, Collins, Petrov, Warnock etc left the pay roll we are still not reinvesting that into top players. I dont think when Ireland and Bent's contracts run out that we are going to put that money to use elsewhere in the playing squad, maybe I'm wrong but I dont see it.

Sure Lambert clearly tries to identify players that can fit into what he wants to do. But how successful has this approach been either? Benteke sure is superb but that signing seems to be covering up a lot of very poor players he has brought in too.

I dont know how we have moved forward either, I thought we were heading in the right direction at the backend of last season but we are as bad as anything produced in the McLeish days at the moment. maybe thats an improvement from this time last year but that was the worst Villa side I can remember

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I think that since the sacking of McLiesh there has been a very clear transfer policy.

I used the Bent and Ireland wage as an indicate the severity of the problem. That is £6 million on two players who don't play for us anymore, £6 million despite the shedding of the likes of Heskey, Warnock, Collins etc over the previous summer.

I think you're assessment is incredibly critical if you believe Benteke to be the only signing to take have taken us forward. Some players have not been able to pick up their good form where they left it off last season, while others (such as Vlaar) have taken 12 months to bed in and get up to speed. I think in the case of the former, that is down to the age of the players and their lack of experience. You don't suddenly lose very obvious qualities over a summer.

I think your comparison with McLeish is just bizarre frankly and based on what? Two insipid attacking displays away from home where we drew a blank? Or two home games against much better teams who were vying for second at the weekend, the latter of which we should have beat and beaten comfortably?

We're a mid-table side. For every Arsenal or Chelsea performance, there will be a dogged Norwich and a poor West Ham.

[pauliewalnuts]

Agree with a lot of posters, it's hyped as transition when in effect it's just plain average. Players, management and club. We are spending money to stand still at the moment, just above relegation while the likes of West Brom and Southampton skate ahead to the nirvana of a top ten position.

Surely if you think Albion are skating ahead of us (whilst being a massive TWO points ahead of us) towards a top ten place, that's actually vindication of doing things cheaply, as their transfer policy is one of the tightest in the league?

WBA are a "mid table" side neither threatening relegation nor european qualification.

2011/12 - WBA 10th 47 pts, AV 16th 38 pts
2012/13 - WBA 8th 49 pts, AV 15th 41 points

WBA are a smaller club in the greater scheme of things, average attendance prob 10k less than hours. But they are a lot better managed than us, one of the first English clubs to adopt the Sporting Director European model and investing in coaches rather than handing blank chequebooks to the MON's of this world. I think Paul Lambert is crying out for a similar role to be on the Villa board to help him develop as a coach too.

WBA are a vindication of doing things properly rather than cheaply. Not sure what they saw in Anichebe mind. We just seem to be doing things cheaply. Ive no problem at all with bringing in younger players in (lazy signings like Heskey, Harewood, Shorey used do my head in) but that needs to be balanced by bringing in proven quality when available like Gareth Barry this summer.

Goes without saying that AVFC being properly managed at board and player level would piss
 all over WBA and others. We should be up there with Everton even with our current budget trying to get into Europe. We have been drifting along with the bottom feeders for a few years now and its not looking any better this time around. I dont think thats acceptable for our club.

I still don't get it.

Albion spend carefully and have a tight transfer policy and wages structure, combined with tight management and a plan, and they're well managed.

Villa spend carefully, put in place a tight transfer policy and wages structure, combine it with tight management and a plan, and we're cheap?

I understand entirely the bit about how they're well managed (although not well enough managed to have avoided getting relegated very recently), and I too think there's a very fine line between building something based on young, cheap and homegrown players on one side and doing it on the cheap on the other, it just strikes me as not that valid a comparison.

[Brian Taylor]

I cannot agree with most of that.

There is a very clear plan to turn us around from struggling to stay up on the sub-40 points when Lambert took over, amidst of a budgetary crisis that was inherited over four years of overspend, added to two years of the club pulling in different directions. There aren't many managers in the league who have had to take over and turn around a club under those circumstances.

The focus is clearly on a lot of scouting and homework to identify a certain type of player to fit the system but on the pitch and in terms of the ethos that Lambert is fostering. This is being done while slowly shedding the dead weight that has dragged the club down. By the end of the season there is likely to be an extra £6,240,000 freed up in the wage budget if you estimate Ireland and Bent to be on circa £60,000m p/w.

You have chosen to ignore every sign which tells you the club has moved forward on last season, which in turn moved on from the one before (albeit by smaller margins) then you may well come to the conclusion, erroneously in my opinion, that we're with the bottom feeders forever. I think we're well on target to finish solidly in mid-table between 12-8th positions.

I also don't think you've explained away the contradiction Paulie highlighted, merely reinforced it. The Albion being a smaller club doesn't come into the equation. They have been spending within their means and reaping limited rewards because of this to enable them to finish mid-table. That's what we're looking at doing in the short term. Our bigger size means if we follow this plan for long enough, the rewards may well be greater.

are you sure there is a very clear plan? the club seemed to want to go in a different direction after MON left alright but still decided to buy Ireland, Given, Makoun, Bent, Nzogbia, Hutton afterwards. With the mantra being for top players we would still pay decent money but while still trying to bring down the average age of the squad and the wage bill. The Lambert era seems to have been one to continue this without making big money signings. Yet when Dunne, Collins, Petrov, Warnock etc left the pay roll we are still not reinvesting that into top players. I dont think when Ireland and Bent's contracts run out that we are going to put that money to use elsewhere in the playing squad, maybe I'm wrong but I dont see it.

Sure Lambert clearly tries to identify players that can fit into what he wants to do. But how successful has this approach been either? Benteke sure is superb but that signing seems to be covering up a lot of very poor players he has brought in too.

I dont know how we have moved forward either, I thought we were heading in the right direction at the backend of last season but we are as bad as anything produced in the McLeish days at the moment. maybe thats an improvement from this time last year but that was the worst Villa side I can remember

You never had the pleasure of seeing Dave Pountney play then..
If it were not for the likes of Johnny McLeod, Mickey Wright and the ubiquitous Charlie Aitken, not forgetting Alan Deakin and John Sleeuwenhoek..life may have been different. Pountney was, possibly, the all-time worst and made all the worse cos my dad said he was replacement for Peter McParland whom dad watched from the early 50's along with danny Blanchflower..He never let me forget it! But I still hung on in there.
Agree that this team is taking on aspects of McLeish at the nadir of his reign.
Lambert can do it but has so long to play with the philosopher's stone and turn us into gold.

We need a Ray Graydon to put the ball in to connect with Benteke a la Andy Lochead!

We need someone to come out of the pack as a star of the future. It is Leandro Bacuna for me. Quality, wait and see.

[paul_e]

We need someone to come out of the pack as a star of the future. It is Leandro Bacuna for me. Quality, wait and see.

I agree, both on the concept and the choice of player, Bacuna has a good cross and an eye for a pass (as well as being quick, strong and having a good touch), if we can start getting him in the right areas of the field he can make things happen for us, I'd like to see him have a go in the gabby/weimann roles.

guzan
lowton vlaar clark luna
westwood
sylla delph
tonev benteke bacuna

certainly whilst gabby and weimann have knocks I'd like us to give it a go.

[Phil from the upper holte]

Given, Bent, Hutton, Ireland and N'Zogbia who still represent the good part of £300,000 a week.

THAT is fucking terrifying

[themossman]

For me the biggest difference vs last year is that although we're still annoyingly inconsistent, when it does go wrong it's not as spectacularly terrible this time.

The fact that we've got a near perfect storm up front with all our best players being in and out of the team or off form or both and we're still picking up points by not conceding feels like progress.

[Concrete John]

If you look at it in terms of points/results, then we're clearly better this season.  If you look at it in terms of how we're playing and which players have or haven't improved from last season, then that's more subjective.

But the project we've undertaken with Lambert was always going to be a long one.  We're scouting and recruiting young players and trying to develop them.  Some will be almost instant hits (Benteke), some will be more slow burners (Vlaar) and some will take backwards steps at times (Westwood).  So it's hard to guage how well we're doing if you micro analyse it, as different aspects of our game and squad will be on different curves on the graph. 

Viewing it overall, we've got a couple of more players I'm very happy with (Bacuna and Okore), results have improved and you can still see things where we can get better (Lowton/Westwood/Weimann rediscovering their best form, Helenius and/or Tonev having a greater impact).

There was a lot of talk about a 5 year plan when Randy first took over.  However, when I look at Lambert's approach, then you can see how that could be a 5 year strategy and I'm looking forward to where it takes us.     

[Fergal]

Q. Is this what transition looks like?
A. I hope so because if it's not then we are fookin fooked...

[pauliewalnuts]

Q. Is this what transition looks like?
A. I hope so because if it's not then we are fookin fooked...

Ha ha, that's pretty much spot on.

[john e]

we played better football in the last half of last season,
 I had plenty of scraps on here defending some of our performances last season when we were playing well but the results weren't going our way,
 so I cant be hypocritical now and say its all about the results, because our displays this season so far haven't been an improvement at all

yes I know we are better of points wise against the same opposition last year, and ive seen all the stats  proving we are in better shape this season especially defensively, but as far as i'm concerned we arnt anything like as exciting to watch, or trying to play a passing game which I thought was Lamberts plan

last year we were posting about how we needed big centre halfs and defenders who could hurt people, now we want a 'no 10' type player who has taken over at the top of the wish list, we just got rid of one in Ireland, I know he was not much use but who are we going to get in ?  Joe Cole, Taarabt,  or some unkown youngster to take a risk on, its not easy

i'd like to see Lambert sticking with playing the passing game and looking to hold on to the ball more, i'm not to botherd about keeping clean sheets especially if its at the expense of us not scoring, I was really hopefull this season of kicking on and becoming an attractive footballing side to watch, but so far we have regressed, albeit with better results, just

I'm a bit disappointed I was hoping for better performances

[sirlordbaltimore]

I've been hearing a lot of people saying like for like results are better this year so we must be improving

A loss is still a loss people ... claiming some improvement because we've still lost but not by some many is really scraping the barrel IMHO

An improvement would be turning a loss into something valuable like a point or 3 surely ?