Is this what transition looks like?

[Matt Collins]

It's only a thought, but I wonder if Lambert looked at our travails last season and our fixture list at the start, and thought 'I need to prioritise not having to play catch-up on points and goal difference again'?

Perhaps he's been a bit more safety first, defensive minded and cautious as a result. He did put out a pretty attacking team against Everton last week, and with better finishing we could well have won that game.

I'm concerned about the lack of goals of course. But our next 5 games are Cardiff (h), WBA (a), Sunderland (h), Saints (a), Fulham (a).

If  I look at that relatively impartially, I'd fancy us to win 2-3 of those games, and get 1-2 points from Saints and Baggies. If the BBC predictor thing hadn't disappeared, I'd see where that's likely to take us. But we'd certainly be looking a bit healthier - probably top half?

[hilts_coolerking]

Changing the manager isn't an option for a number of reasons, continuity being the most important.  But that doesn't mean Lambert is doing a really good job.  Frankly, at the moment he's just about doing an adequate job.

If we're in transition at all, it's from a club that spent lots of money in pursuit of Europe to a club that spends just enough to stay in the division.

[Toronto Villa]

Changing the manager isn't an option for a number of reasons, continuity being the most important.  But that doesn't mean Lambert is doing a really good job.  Frankly, at the moment he's just about doing an adequate job.

If we're in transition at all, it's from a club that spent lots of money in pursuit of Europe to a club that spends just enough to stay in the division.

I think you could argue given some of the contracts that remain on the books that we are still spending on wages like we are in Europe. For me, that is still part of the issue and something that we are in the midst of the transitioning out of.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

For some reason - possibly because of the Dortmund connection - I had expected Lambert to send his side out to get the ball down, keep it and play a controlled game. Whereas what we've ended up with looks much more like the sort of sitting back, soaking-up opposition pressure and going direct to the target man style of play that we saw under MON, and we all know the limitations of that approach. I'm not quite sure how we've ended up like that, because I still have a suspicion that Lambert is aiming for something a bit more 21st century, as evidenced by the performances at the back end of last season. Perhaps it's the manager's solution to for reducing the number of goals we concede, but for whatever reason, there seems to have been a deliberate decision to revert to a more agricultural style. I find that a bit dispiriting. I'd like to see a Villa side that makes an effort to play a more cultured game.

Nothing has changed my mind that Lambert, just like his young and hungry signings, is still learning the game. Tactically he really worries me. Playing 5 defenders and three defensive midfielders yesterday against a team that didn't have a striker on the pitch was beyond belief and can only go to show he had no belief in the ability of his signings.

[hilts_coolerking]

I think you could argue given some of the contracts that remain on the books that we are still spending on wages like we are in Europe. For me, that is still part of the issue and something that we are in the midst of the transitioning out of.

Yep, although there's nothing wrong with paying European-level salaries on the right players.  Paying that money on feckless wasters like Dunne, Ireland and Beye was madness.

[ChicagoLion]

Good original post, I think it is still too early to say, we are a couple of results from displaying green shoots and a few from looking like an extension of the last 2 seasons. We looked a very poor team yesterday.

[ez]

Re taking Weimann out of the firing line, I'm not sure we have a choice. Didn't he do his hammy yesterday? So he could be out for a few weeks.

Could be the best thing for him really. Takes pressure off him, gives him a spell out and it isn't the stigma of being dropped.
I'm a little disappointed we've let Albrighton go. We're not loaded with numbers right now and though he's struggled in recent years he's something of a senior statesman at the club (at only 23, soon to be 24). I think you can always rely on him to work hard for starters. He seemed bright in the league cup so it's a shame really. I think we could use him. Tonev and Helenius are taking their time to settle it seems.

I'm all for Alby going to get some game time and fitness, but I think we could be using him ourselves right now.

I'd also like to see 1-2 of our youngsters being brought into the squad. Johnson deserves a crack. Can he do any worse than Westy at the moment? Likewise I'd like Grealish to get a pop when he's back here and fit again. Carruthers could also provide a bit of flair for us. We can't really use the excuse that "these guys are too young to be thrown in" because our whole squad is young and inexperienced anyway. I actually think some of our local boys could settle in quicker than some of the foreign imports.

I like Weimann, I think he's a grafter who trying hard and i'm not sure why he's getting the brunt for our lack of goals. Benteke has had some much better chances to score including a penalty, and i'm trying to remember Gabby's last goal or assist.

[Uknowthescore]

With the same chairman,manager and budget we got now were never going to be more than a team fighting relegation until we do eventually go down I'm afraid

[walsall villain]

With the same chairman,manager and budget we got now were never going to be more than a team fighting relegation until we do eventually go down I'm afraid

What makes you say that?
It needs something dramatic to happen for any club to dislodge the top 6 because of their backing and support but why are we doomed to be fighting relegation?  Don't agree and think we will gradually improve year on year as Everton did a while back unless we panic and turf the manager out.

[olaftab]

With the same chairman,manager and budget we got now were never going to be more than a team fighting relegation until we do eventually go down I'm afraid

Cheers for your optimism!

[edgysatsuma89]

I think direct "this season v last season against the same opponents" comparisons don't really tell you much - although I can see why people are interested in them.

I think you have to look at the wider picture to get a view of that. For example, I could imagine a situation whereby we'd played the first ten games of this season and done worse than last season against the same opponents, but there was sufficient (admittedly subjective) evidence that we'd started to play better football, despite worse results, and that would be more important to the way the club is moving as a whole than points on the board.

In fact, that was frequently the case last season, and is the main reason why so many of us stuck with Lambert despite runs of results that made McLeish's points return look decent - but we saw the change in the way we play, and made allowances for it.

What concerns me about much of this season so far is that that style of play we began to build up over last season is nowhere to be seen.

It is almost as if we have started to believe the press about how lethal we are on the counter attack at times. This has turned into a tendency to sit back and defend, whilst hitting speculative long balls in the hope that this will create a counter attack opportunity.

Last year we would hustle and chase and hunt the ball down when the opposition had it. In fact, we did that at Arsenal on the first game of this season, too, and look where it got us.

This season we have hardly ever done that. Not only that, but in a lot of games, we've looked like we've forgotten how to pass.

Yesterday is a good example. A point at West Ham is not bad. It isn't great, but it's not the sort of result that is ever going to get anyone sacked. I have no problems with that. We also defended quite well. I know West Ham are largely toothless, but we let them have the ball for most of the game yesterday and never really looked like we couldn't defend.

The downside was that our passing was atrocious. It would be a couple of passes at most, followed by a pointless, at best 50-50 ball. This was discussed on the post match thread, but the one time we really managed to put together a decent passing move, we almost scored.

That was the same against Man City. That first half, we were pretty much played off our own pitch. We got a great result, looking back, and the second half was much improved, but the very first time we managed to put together a passing move in that game, we scored from it.

There has been far too much of yesterday's performance this season, and I understand why people are getting annoyed about it.

Last season, we all seemed to accept that it was going to be very up and down, and was the start of a transition, and yes, we are still in a transition. The problem is, for transition to be an acceptable state, there has to be a general perception that things are moving in the right direction. What worries me is that we've not seen anything like enough of that this season.

Over the summer we didn't seem to buy players of a quality appreciably better than those we bought last season. Several players who did well last season are finding the second season much harder - Weimann, Westwood, Lowton, to name three. I don't really know what Lambert saw in our trophy signing, Kozak. I am not writing him off, but with him it is not so much a question of who we did sign, but who we didn't sign. Was Kozak really the priority? Confusing.

I think that the whole transition thing is also a matter of perception. There's a thin line between "hungry, up and coming young players, building something different to improve the club" and "buying young, hungry, cheap players to maintain our existence cheaply" (see Wigan, seasons gone), and I sense a growing feeling that, in terms of what our aims are, we're starting to be seen more as a more illustrious version of Wigan than the nascent Brummie Borussia Dortmund that some people started to see us as last year.

It is not the awful situation some seem to think it is, but I entirely understand why people worry about it, and I worry too.

Bang on post for me.

[mike]

We're the new Wigan. Good manager, no money, a couple of players anyone else would look at twice. Our only ambition is to stay up and we are completely reliant on three teams being worse than us. Our luck will run out like theirs. The difference is, they're a tin pot team in a rugby league town with twenty fans, we're Aston Villa.

[Mister E]

Over the summer we didn't seem to buy players of a quality appreciably better than those we bought last season. Several players who did well last season are finding the second season much harder - Weimann, Westwood, Lowton, to name three. I don't really know what Lambert saw in our trophy signing, Kozak. I am not writing him off, but with him it is not so much a question of who we did sign, but who we didn't sign. Was Kozak really the priority? Confusing.

I think that the whole transition thing is also a matter of perception. There's a thin line between "hungry, up and coming young players, building something different to improve the club" and "buying young, hungry, cheap players to maintain our existence cheaply" (see Wigan, seasons gone), and I sense a growing feeling that, in terms of what our aims are, we're starting to be seen more as a more illustrious version of Wigan than the nascent Brummie Borussia Dortmund that some people started to see us as last year.

It is not the awful situation some seem to think it is, but I entirely understand why people worry about it, and I worry too.

There's some sense in what you're saying - Benteke is also possibly suffering second-season syndrome as well as the three you mention. For me, this season Lambert has continued the gamble of last: 7 new players in, of whom we'd really only heard about 1. As per last year, some of these purchases look a bit dud, so we are still very much in the work-in-progress stage. Kozak is - absolutely - a bizarre addition, given other obvious priorities.
When he has offloaded the final remnants of the GHou / TSM eras - Bent, Ireland, Given, N'Zog and Hutton - he will have more flexibility in signings. The massive question for me is: does he recognise which parts of the squad require significant investment in talent and experience? - and can he find the alternative strategies that are required off the bench - wide players being an obvious deficit at the moment?
We are still struggling to get top-quality full backs: on the left Bennett does not seem to be currently an option (is he injured?) and Luna is fallible; on the right, Bacuna has been preferred to the apparently below-par Lowton (I'd like to see both of these players down our right side). The FB positions are critical to the style that Lambert is trying to play ... but we also need more quality through the middle.

His ability will be tested over the next three months (including the Jan window).

[Dante Lavelli]

The massive question for me is: does he recognise which parts of the squad require significant investment in talent and experience? - and can he find the alternative strategies that are required off the bench - wide players being an obvious deficit at the moment?

His ability will be tested over the next three months (including the Jan window).

I think he recognises that a Number 10 of some description is required.  And he appears to have allocated a chunk of money for this player.  In he last few windows he's bid for Dempsey (bid accepted), Coutinho (persistent rumour) and enquired about the Japanese guy.

Understandably he's trying to squeeze all the potential he can get out of Westwood, KEA, Sylla, Delph before he decides whether to buy a CM.

[ciggiesnbeer]

Good thread. Yeah I think this is transition. I like the fact we feel more solid this season. I do not like the fact that we play some poor stuff right now.

I expect Lambert to continue to change the way we play and the formations we choose. That is who he is. He did it at Norwich and with us last season, he will continue to do it.

When I see us play I still see a squad whose best times are ahead of them. That to me is progress.