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Author Topic: Ashes 2013/14  (Read 289499 times)

Offline paul_e

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Re: Ashes 2013/14
« Reply #1500 on: January 09, 2014, 07:31:35 PM »
Why in general, wouldn't a bowler make a good Captain?

Often what happens is bowlers either bowl themselves too much or too little. Also, it can be a distraction from that tunnel vision which is quite good for a bowler to have to keep thinking about the general situation of the fielding.

Also sometimes a captain needs to tell the bowler that what he's doing isn't working, Cook's reluctance to do exactly that is the biggest criticism I've heard of him.

Offline eastie

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Re: Ashes 2013/14
« Reply #1501 on: January 09, 2014, 07:40:52 PM »
Interesting piece in the telegraph by paul Hayward.

Quote from: daily telegraph

The post-mortem on England’s Ashes debacle cannot be a panto of news management, score-settling and self-preservation by whispers. This ravaged camp should know that a case can be made for purging Kevin Pietersen only if there is hard evidence against him, and Andy Flower’s reported unwillingness to work with him again is not just based on personal antipathy.
From this distance a kind of institutionalised dishonesty has taken hold of English cricket: players thinking they are better than they are, feeding off old glories and believing they can escape the ignominy of a 5-0 defeat with off-the-record briefings.
Already there is the sense that some inside the England camp are happy to use Pietersen as a lightning rod for the public’s anger. People who were previously disdainful of the media now seem happy to chirp away with often unattributable comments on what went wrong.
Paul Downton, the new England and Wales Cricket Board managing director, was probably not expecting this deluge of ill feeling in his first few weeks in the job. In his position, you might be thinking nobody in this England set-up has a right to shout the odds about what should happen next. Not Pietersen, and not Flower and his coaching staff, who allowed complacency to erode the good work of the previous four years.
Flower in particular had become the invisible man of English cricket.

Insulated by success, he seemed to regard normal discourse with press and public as beneath him. The England team cavorted behind a wall of paranoia and self-regard. They behaved like untouchables. Nothing new in that. But rarely do we see a coach who has been trounced 5-0 try to dictate the terms by which he might stay in the job.
Flower was quiet for much of this Ashes series. Then he burst into print with a declaration about what an “exciting challenge” it would be to put things right. Then, according to many accounts, he made Pietersen the issue on which he would stand or fall.
With respect – and Flower deserves that, at the very least — he is in no state to be telling Downton what to think about the playing or coaching staff. The new man is within his rights to tell everyone to pipe down and answer the questions that must now be laid before a bedraggled team. He is in charge, not Flower or the PR machine Pietersen is so adept at mobilising in times of need.
These are unusual circumstances for sure. Pietersen, 33, is England’s best player and its marquee attraction. Non-aficionados will turn on the television to watch him at the crease. His batting is theatre, a performance. Even with 294 runs at a rate of 29.40 he was England’s top scorer on a lamentable tour. By his own standards he was a flop, an easy victim for Australia’s bowlers, who exploited his ego and his impatience.
In that sense he fell furthest of England’s proven match-winners. Yet, without proof of bad behaviour, all the ECB would have to go on would be a generalised dislike. Old transgressions are irrelevant if there has been no new breaking of the rules.
If a choice is obligatory, many disgruntled fans will say: a plague on both their houses, both should go. But Pietersen’s match-changing capabilities continue to cast a spell on his audience, especially now that Alastair Cook’s team have disintegrated. Would expelling the crowd-pleaser be offset by a rise in squad harmony? This is the wrong way to start the question, because every established player must face an inquest; not just Pietersen, who has a long history of fallouts.
There will be those inside the camp who feel he should never have been recalled in the first place, following Cook’s elevation to the captaincy, and now want to correct that error by sending him back to the wilderness (or the Indian Premier League).
Certainly it takes the breath away to imagine that KP may effectively prevail over two England coaches (Peter Moores and Flower) as well as Andrew Strauss, who was captain when Pietersen sent his provocative texts to South African players.
“It’s tough being me in this dressing room,” Pietersen once said, and there are no prizes for spotting that it is tough having him in the locker room as well.
But Downton needs to know the specific allegations against him on this tour. Did he contravene team regulations? Was he disobedient and detached? If so a case can be made for kicking him to the kerb. If not, Flower and the other players are going to have to answer for their own inadequacies without making Pietersen the scapegoat: a role he clearly feels pre-doomed to fill.
After a disastrous 2011 World Cup campaign England’s rugby players took part in an equally calamitous inquest in which they were allowed to disparage the coaching staff anonymously. The report was leaked to the press and exposed the squad to further ridicule. Along with some constructive suggestions came a catalogue of bleating and blame-shifting.
This post-mortem requires some order and decorum.
The recriminations, though, have already started. Survival strategies have been laid out. The attempts at news management are as transparent as England’s fear of Mitchell Johnson. Downton now has a chance to be rational, objective and analytical. If Pietersen is a hindrance, he goes – however great his talent. But the others cannot use him as a cartoon villain to hide behind.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 07:42:43 PM by eastie »

Online PaulWinch again

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Re: Ashes 2013/14
« Reply #1502 on: January 10, 2014, 10:33:11 AM »
I'd say that article is pretty fair.

Offline eastie

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Re: Ashes 2013/14
« Reply #1503 on: January 10, 2014, 02:43:18 PM »
@Swannyg66: Thanks to those of you saying nice stuff about my career and invitations to you haters to a cyanide party. Free drinks and nibbles.

Online PaulWinch again

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Re: Ashes 2013/14
« Reply #1504 on: January 10, 2014, 05:16:28 PM »
After time to think about it, I think getting hammered could be much better for English cricket than if we'd been beaten in a close contest. If that had happened then we could have limped along in the same fashion. If this thrashing is used to reinvigorate our cricket and we start to play a more positive style of cricket it'll be worth it. However my fear is that at the moment KP will be made the scapegoat and they'll ignore all of the serious issues our team has.

Offline taylorsworkrate

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Re: Ashes 2013/14
« Reply #1505 on: January 10, 2014, 05:23:20 PM »
@Swannyg66: Thanks to those of you saying nice stuff about my career and invitations to you haters to a cyanide party. Free drinks and nibbles.

Great bowler though Swann has been, it isn't hard to see why he was ostracised from the England set up for such a long period of time.

Offline KevinGage

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Re: Ashes 2013/14
« Reply #1506 on: January 10, 2014, 05:49:41 PM »
After time to think about it, I think getting hammered could be much better for English cricket than if we'd been beaten in a close contest. If that had happened then we could have limped along in the same fashion. If this thrashing is used to reinvigorate our cricket and we start to play a more positive style of cricket it'll be worth it. However my fear is that at the moment KP will be made the scapegoat and they'll ignore all of the serious issues our team has.

If they ditch KP for lack of form they should ditch Cook too.  Only fair. 

It would be brave of the selectors to omit both of them from the next test squad, but it's a move they should consider.  Not as punishment, but just to illustrate that there are no sacred cows. Botham said a while back that it was too cozy.  Club England: difficult to get into, almost impossible to get out of.

A place in the side should be on merit.  On that basis, It's hard to argue that either Cook or KP should be in the side based on their form these past 12 months.

Online PaulWinch again

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Re: Ashes 2013/14
« Reply #1507 on: January 10, 2014, 05:54:13 PM »
After time to think about it, I think getting hammered could be much better for English cricket than if we'd been beaten in a close contest. If that had happened then we could have limped along in the same fashion. If this thrashing is used to reinvigorate our cricket and we start to play a more positive style of cricket it'll be worth it. However my fear is that at the moment KP will be made the scapegoat and they'll ignore all of the serious issues our team has.

If they ditch KP for lack of form they should ditch Cook too.  Only fair. 

It would be brave of the selectors to omit both of them from the next test squad, but it's a move they should consider.  Not as punishment, but just to illustrate that there are no sacred cows. Botham said a while back that it was too cozy.  Club England: difficult to get into, almost impossible to get out of.

A place in the side should be on merit.  On that basis, It's hard to argue that either Cook or KP should be in the side based on their form these past 12 months.


Well true but others are in line before KP after this series, as poor as it was he was our top scorer. We need a much more positive and proactive style of cricket and yes players need to be secure in their positions but they need to perform as well. There's too much fear of failure running through that team and it's far too negative.

Offline eastie

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Re: Ashes 2013/14
« Reply #1508 on: January 10, 2014, 06:42:33 PM »
After time to think about it, I think getting hammered could be much better for English cricket than if we'd been beaten in a close contest. If that had happened then we could have limped along in the same fashion. If this thrashing is used to reinvigorate our cricket and we start to play a more positive style of cricket it'll be worth it. However my fear is that at the moment KP will be made the scapegoat and they'll ignore all of the serious issues our team has.

If they ditch KP for lack of form they should ditch Cook too.  Only fair. 

It would be brave of the selectors to omit both of them from the next test squad, but it's a move they should consider.  Not as punishment, but just to illustrate that there are no sacred cows. Botham said a while back that it was too cozy.  Club England: difficult to get into, almost impossible to get out of.

A place in the side should be on merit.  On that basis, It's hard to argue that either Cook or KP should be in the side based on their form these past 12 months.

KP will not be ditched on form , it's other issues , according to most cricket writers.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 06:49:50 PM by eastie »

Offline eastie

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Re: Ashes 2013/14
« Reply #1509 on: January 11, 2014, 09:08:14 AM »
Interesting in cook's press conference today he gave great backing to Andy Flower but when asked if kp was a dispruptive influence refused to answer the question saying he cannot comment due to confidentiality .

He then proceeded to bat away all kp questions looking decidedly uncomfortable about the whole thing .

Online PaulWinch again

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Re: Ashes 2013/14
« Reply #1510 on: January 11, 2014, 10:00:40 AM »
I think the biggest worry is the fact he said we've been a good force for the last 5 years and just had a poor three months. That's just not true we've been on the slide for a long time and if they genuinely don't realise that it's time for a new coach and captain.

Offline olaftab

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Re: Ashes 2013/14
« Reply #1511 on: January 11, 2014, 10:11:15 AM »
He is right. England have been top 1/2 of World Test teams in that period so there is no need to throw the baby out with the bath water however the bath requires scrubbing.

Offline eastie

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Re: Ashes 2013/14
« Reply #1512 on: January 11, 2014, 10:38:48 AM »
I think the biggest worry is the fact he said we've been a good force for the last 5 years and just had a poor three months. That's just not true we've been on the slide for a long time and if they genuinely don't realise that it's time for a new coach and captain.

It's not time for a new coach and captain - both have proved they can do the job - they will learn lessons from this tour and deserve the chance to put things right.

Online PaulWinch again

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Re: Ashes 2013/14
« Reply #1513 on: January 11, 2014, 10:59:50 AM »
He is right. England have been top 1/2 of World Test teams in that period so there is no need to throw the baby out with the bath water however the bath requires scrubbing.

They were but they were on the slide, see very nearly getting beaten in NZ and the lack of ever scoring 400 in a first innings. Make no mistake the problems with this team go back much longer than 3 months, we won in the summer but we weren't actually very good. England have to change their approach to cricket, our conservative style has been found out now.

Offline eastie

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Re: Ashes 2013/14
« Reply #1514 on: January 11, 2014, 12:16:02 PM »
He is right. England have been top 1/2 of World Test teams in that period so there is no need to throw the baby out with the bath water however the bath requires scrubbing.

They were but they were on the slide, see very nearly getting beaten in NZ and the lack of ever scoring 400 in a first innings. Make no mistake the problems with this team go back much longer than 3 months, we won in the summer but we weren't actually very good. England have to change their approach to cricket, our conservative style has been found out now.

Cook and Flower are aware of that and deserve the chance to put things right- give them at least the summer .

 


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