Sad, sad, sad

[russon]

I can understand that differentiation Villadroid and thank you for it. Right enough, the physical symptoms of alcoholics (DTs and seizures) is ample evidence but I know many functioning alcoholics who are no less gripped by the condition. I think there is no difference between the people you've described as boozers and those you call alcoholics. If people class themselves in your 'boozers' category they'll never truly grasp the need for a life changing decision about their drinking, denial is commonplace in that they think they can return to social drinking after a period of sobriety when all that leads to is a new rock bottom.

[Villadroid]

I can understand that differentiation Villadroid and thank you for it. Right enough, the physical symptoms of alcoholics (DTs and seizures) is ample evidence but I know many functioning alcoholics who are no less gripped by the condition. I think there is no difference between the people you've described as boozers and those you call alcoholics. If people class themselves in your 'boozers' category they'll never truly grasp the need for a life changing decision about their drinking, denial is commonplace in that they think they can return to social drinking after a period of sobriety when all that leads to is a new rock bottom.

There is absolutely no denying the destructive grip alcohol has on some people's lives but whether it is caused by addiction or selfishness is open to debate.

I suppose I tend to think that when people claim that they are victims of an addiction they are avoiding personal responsibility, a conclusion which is usually supported by their their lies, craftiness and manipulation.

When they give it up for a good while and then choose to go back to the booze, I have little doubt that they are just being self-indulgent and not responding to a physical need.

[Ger Regan]

There is absolutely no denying the destructive grip alcohol has on some people's lives but whether it is caused by addiction or selfishness is open to debate.

I suppose I tend to think that when people claim that they are victims of an addiction they are avoiding personal responsibility, a conclusion which is usually supported by their their lies, craftiness and manipulation.

When they give it up for a good while and then choose to go back to the booze, I have little doubt that they are just being self-indulgent and not responding to a physical need.

Why do I get the feeling you don't really believe in mental illness? And why am I not really surprised?

EDIT: I wonder how long will it take you to use your patented "my post was misunderstood" tactic?

[PeterWithesShin]

There is absolutely no denying the destructive grip alcohol has on some people's lives but whether it is caused by addiction or selfishness is open to debate.

I suppose I tend to think that when people claim that they are victims of an addiction they are avoiding personal responsibility, a conclusion which is usually supported by their their lies, craftiness and manipulation.

When they give it up for a good while and then choose to go back to the booze, I have little doubt that they are just being self-indulgent and not responding to a physical need.

A quite staggeringly *actually i'd better stop myself from saying what I really want to*

[Monty]

Villadroid, what you're saying is the equivalent of telling an asthmatic that they should just stop failing to breathe.

[Dave Cooper please]

When they give it up for a good while and then choose to go back to the booze, I have little doubt that they are just being self-indulgent and not responding to a physical need.

You can have as little doubt as you like, but in a vast majority of cases of any kind of addiction, you are wrong.

[paul_e]

Villadroid when you have any idea what you're talking about when it comes to addiction, specifically alcoholism (which is one of the worst addictions to do anything about because of the social aspects of it) then please continue to post but what you've written up there is disgraceful.  I've had a family member die from conditions resulting from alcoholism and worked for a number of years with an alcoholic and the idea that you can suggest it's self-indulgent is utterly repugnant.

[Lizz]

I suppose I tend to think that when people claim that they are victims of an addiction they are avoiding personal responsibility, a conclusion which is usually supported by their their lies, craftiness and manipulation.

When they give it up for a good while and then choose to go back to the booze, I have little doubt that they are just being self-indulgent and not responding to a physical need.

I don't believe people are avoiding personal responsibility, but then my judgement is clouded by knowing one  alcoholic who despite numerous medical interventions, drank himself to death. How anyone would choose to do that is beyond me, ergo I believe personal choice didn't enter the equation.

[Villadroid]

Villadroid when you have any idea what you're talking about when it comes to addiction, specifically alcoholism (which is one of the worst addictions to do anything about because of the social aspects of it) then please continue to post but what you've written up there is disgraceful.  I've had a family member die from conditions resulting from alcoholism and worked for a number of years with an alcoholic and the idea that you can suggest it's self-indulgent is utterly repugnant.

I think it would be hard to find a family which hasn't had a member die from the result of alcohol abuse.

I apologise if you are offended but my cynical view of alcohol abusers but it is not entirely a novel invention on my part and anyone familiar with the psychological theory of Transactional Analysis would not find it strange at all.

[Monty]

TA is a pseudo-psychological theory unsupported by any credible evidence to its accuracy or effectiveness. Don't try and get out of a contemptibly outdated statement by name-dropping a hopelessly outdated theory which you hoped nobody else would have heard of.

[Chico Hamilton III]

anyone familiar with the psychological theory of Transactional Analysis

Oh yeah, a football fans' forum is bursting with contributors who are familiar with this. When I'm on long journeys home after an away defeat, I talk of little else.

Maybe shift this load of rubbish to off topic?

[Dave Cooper please]

I apologise if you are offended but my cynical view of alcohol abusers but it is not entirely a novel invention on my part and anyone familiar with the psychological theory of Transactional Analysis would not find it strange at all.

Here comes the wriggle!

[Chris Smith]

Villadroid when you have any idea what you're talking about when it comes to addiction, specifically alcoholism (which is one of the worst addictions to do anything about because of the social aspects of it) then please continue to post but what you've written up there is disgraceful.  I've had a family member die from conditions resulting from alcoholism and worked for a number of years with an alcoholic and the idea that you can suggest it's self-indulgent is utterly repugnant.

I think it would be hard to find a family which hasn't had a member die from the result of alcohol abuse.

I apologise if you are offended but my cynical view of alcohol abusers but it is not entirely a novel invention on my part and anyone familiar with the psychological theory of Transactional Analysis would not find it strange at all.

Whereas anyone with the merest trace of human decency would find it offensive shite.

[Chris Jameson]

anyone familiar with the psychological theory of Transactional Analysis

Oh yeah, a football fans' forum is bursting with contributors who are familiar with this. When I'm on long journeys home after an away defeat, I talk of little else.

We have met before then, Christ almighty that was a long train journey when I got stuck with you waffling on about transactional analysis for what seemed like days when all I asked was 'why didn't Barry take the penalty?'.

Nice to meet you though.

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

I apologise if you are offended but my cynical view of alcohol abusers but it is not entirely a novel invention on my part and anyone familiar with the psychological theory of Transactional Analysis would not find it strange at all.

Sorry I am completely unfamiliar with the psychological theory of Transactional Analysis. Would it have been useful to know at the time for the absolute hell on earth which my other half was existing in and the whirlwind of complete and utter shite that those of us close to her were party to during her years of heavy drinking ?
In the fourteen or so years since that she has completely stopped drinking and the scars have gradually healed, we are both of the view that her alcoholism was/is an illness. Maybe I should review my viewpoint as this could be more lies and deceit from her like the ones she used to display when she was a drinker.
Yes I do find some of your views of alcohol abuse offensive, but will accept your apology.