Giro d'Italia / Tour de France Cycling thread 2013

[Dave Cooper please]

Wiggo was shite on the road before 2009 when he kept up with dopers. Tell me how. He didn't just start focussing on the road then either btw hadn't cracked a grand tour top 120 (so not even mid peleton). He had some results in TT's as you'd expect, he is and was a world class time trialist, he had a pedigree in it but never once not a single time did he show an ability to climb.

Suspicious.

That's because he was principally a track cyclist where you don't tend to see many mountains!
Track and road cycling are vastly different in the way the athletes need to train.

Oh bugger it, why am I bothering to try to explain it to you, you have made your mind up and life id just too short!

[paul_e]

On bilharzia read up about the treatment needed, symptoms and side effects and then read a few articles with Chris' take on it. Doesn't make sense.

I've read up on it and I don't see anything to suggest Froome is making it up (and the blood results showing the presence of the parasite have been made available to the press).  There's also plenty of reports that the infection was found during medical tests after he joined sky but there was no way of knowing how long he had been infected for.  If you do some research you'll find that people often live with it for years without it being diagnosed or treated.  The descriptions of treatment are perfectly acceptable as well.  Additionally what benefit does making up that specific infection give him?  The drug used to treat it isn't on the WADA list and won't mask the taking of anything else on there, the side effects aren't similar to anything you'd experience on the more likely illegal drugs and are actually quite harmful to the body.  It doesn't make sense to make this up.

Seeing as you're the one questioning it can you provide anything specific in the accounts of anyone involved to back up your claims.

As for the results I posted, what they show is that he had some ability, and if you look at stage splits for grand tours he'd entered previously there are a few days where his performance was much higher than expected for his position, something Dave Brailsford has commented on previously, saying when they took him on the first task he set was for them to determine why he couldn't deliver those performances consistently, the medical staff involved put it down to the Bilharzia, which is perfectly reasonable.

Final point, you keep saying they could just release the data, they released everything since he joined them, the data before that isn't really in their hands.  Even if they have been provided with data from his previous team (which is surely the case as I'd guess that's fairly standard practice) as they didn't gather it what value does it give for them to release it?

[aj2k77]

On bilharzia read up about the treatment needed, symptoms and side effects and then read a few articles with Chris' take on it. Doesn't make sense.

I've read up on it and I don't see anything to suggest Froome is making it up (and the blood results showing the presence of the parasite have been made available to the press).  There's also plenty of reports that the infection was found during medical tests after he joined sky but there was no way of knowing how long he had been infected for.  If you do some research you'll find that people often live with it for years without it being diagnosed or treated.  The descriptions of treatment are perfectly acceptable as well.  Additionally what benefit does making up that specific infection give him?  The drug used to treat it isn't on the WADA list and won't mask the taking of anything else on there, the side effects aren't similar to anything you'd experience on the more likely illegal drugs and are actually quite harmful to the body.  It doesn't make sense to make this up.

Seeing as you're the one questioning it can you provide anything specific in the accounts of anyone involved to back up your claims.

As for the results I posted, what they show is that he had some ability, and if you look at stage splits for grand tours he'd entered previously there are a few days where his performance was much higher than expected for his position, something Dave Brailsford has commented on previously, saying when they took him on the first task he set was for them to determine why he couldn't deliver those performances consistently, the medical staff involved put it down to the Bilharzia, which is perfectly reasonable.

Final point, you keep saying they could just release the data, they released everything since he joined them, the data before that isn't really in their hands.  Even if they have been provided with data from his previous team (which is surely the case as I'd guess that's fairly standard practice) as they didn't gather it what value does it give for them to release it?

Where has it been reported they released all of Froome's data? The Journalist that reviewed it said he got 18 data profiles spread over 2 years. The two years he's been any good. He's been at sky for 4, plus they will have access to full medical records during his career, why wasn't that passed on, why specifically only 18 profiles? . Will respond to the rest later after work.

The man they gave his data to also had Armstrongs and said in his opinion it was fine. Make of him what you will.

[lovejoy]

Thing is if you are a young rider and you turn up for a stage race not eying to win but to support your team leader or go for stage wins your overall position could be very low. In fact some riders will ease up on a mountain stage to fall well behind overall so on subsequent days, if they attack, they can be allowed to stay away. Or ease up to conserve energy for a big push later.
Comparing positions in such races year on year is not like for like.

[Dave Cooper please]

Thing is if you are a young rider and you turn up for a stage race not eying to win but to support your team leader or go for stage wins your overall position could be very low. In fact some riders will ease up on a mountain stage to fall well behind overall so on subsequent days, if they attack, they can be allowed to stay away. Or ease up to conserve energy for a big push later.
Comparing positions in such races year on year is not like for like.

Don't bring logic and fact into this, they are all on drugs as well you know.

[Dante Lavelli]

That's because he was principally a track cyclist where you don't tend to see many mountains!
Track and road cycling are vastly different in the way the athletes need to train.

Wiggins discussing (briefly) the change in training here:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/aug/19/sir-bradley-wiggins-track-olympics

[Jon Crofts]

Went to see a stage of the Tour Of Portugal last week, so low key you could wander around the team camper vans, chat to riders & team mechanics and nobody batted an eyelid, great fun.

[N'Rexy]

Most road races apart from the TdF are like that. I have been to loads and its free access everywhere. Its one of great things about pro road racing.

[TopDeck113]

Tour of Britain starts next week.  Would love to go to either the Stage through the Lake District or the ITT at Knowsley Safari Park but, alas, they are on school days.  I know that the Vuelta takes place at the end of August, but I do think the organizers of the Tour of Britain miss a trick not holding it during peak holiday season.

[N'Rexy]

There is no room in the calendar to move it forward. The ToB is selling it self as a race for smaller teams (6 not 9 riders) so it cheaper to race in and teams are viewing it as a good warm up for the World Champs now which are always the week after (in Florence this year). August is full of Pro Tour level races which the big teams are legally obliged to attend. Ideally they want the ToB to attain Pro Tour level but its a long way off at the moment.

I don't know what subject you teach but can't you work cycling into a lesson (languages - mutli lingual sport, maths - timing and power outputs etc etc) and take the kids to watch it?

[aj2k77]

Horner wins the Vuelta at the grand old age of 41, what do you make of that? 

[SteveN]

Horner wins the Vuelta at the grand old age of 41, what do you make of that? 

He's fit, a late developer and has to date due to injury had a very easy season?

[aj2k77]

 

[Jon Crofts]

Why was the opening stage of the Tour Of Britain on farm tracks?  Oh no my mistake it was in a third world country and they were A roads. 
Finish on the pavement, that didn't really do the sprinters any favours did it.

[N'Rexy]

Steady on! There have been some good roads and racing. Monday in the lakes was immense. Today should be good too.