Just when you think that things couldn't get any worse....

[Legion]

I think he is a limited manager who gets results with a tedious brand of anti-football.

[Louzie0]

http://westhamonline.net/forum_flat.php?6664140||1||

These Hammers think he's going to end up a bit further north of B6. Bolton again.
The ITK in the first post is quite funny, though.

Alerted to this development (if that's the word) by a friendly Hammer on the phone not long ago.
Doesn't want to keep BFS, but also doesn't want DeCanio. A lot of them do, however.

[Risso]

Those figures are just plain wrong.  And yes, Allardyce is clearly doing a much better job than Lambert, with a newly promoted side.  Lambert has performed appallingly, and West Ham are comfortably mid-table.

Points are by far a better judge of a team's overall ability than where they are in the table. I'm surprised you think it's the other way round? West Ham are 6 points ahead of us - not a great deal.

Regardless of whether they are a newly promoted side the squad they started the summer with was better than ours - or do you dispute this? Out of the team that has started most games for them this season, 7 of them were there last season (8 if you include Tomkins who has the same amount of starts as Collins). Out of our most started XI this season, we've replaced 10 of the players from last season due to injuries and financial reasons. I don't really see where there is a case for saying he is doing a better job if he has only spent roughly £3.5/£4m less on a squad that were better in the first place? Or are you saying the figures given on that website are totally inaccurate? If so, what do you think the figures are? I'm geniunely interested to see if there is a better case for saying Allardyce is doing a better job. For the record, I don't think Allardyce is a bad manager, I think he's done well at West ham. He just plays a brand of football that makes you want to ram your head through a brick wall.

In the context of our season where it takes us more than 6 games to earn 6 points, that points gap is huge.  Not to mention the enormous goal difference.

[Jockey Randall]

Those figures are just plain wrong.  And yes, Allardyce is clearly doing a much better job than Lambert, with a newly promoted side.  Lambert has performed appallingly, and West Ham are comfortably mid-table.

Points are by far a better judge of a team's overall ability than where they are in the table. I'm surprised you think it's the other way round? West Ham are 6 points ahead of us - not a great deal.

Regardless of whether they are a newly promoted side the squad they started the summer with was better than ours - or do you dispute this? Out of the team that has started most games for them this season, 7 of them were there last season (8 if you include Tomkins who has the same amount of starts as Collins). Out of our most started XI this season, we've replaced 10 of the players from last season due to injuries and financial reasons. I don't really see where there is a case for saying he is doing a better job if he has only spent roughly £3.5/£4m less on a squad that were better in the first place? Or are you saying the figures given on that website are totally inaccurate? If so, what do you think the figures are? I'm geniunely interested to see if there is a better case for saying Allardyce is doing a better job. For the record, I don't think Allardyce is a bad manager, I think he's done well at West ham. He just plays a brand of football that makes you want to ram your head through a brick wall.

In the context of our season where it takes us more than 6 games to earn 6 points, that points gap is huge.  Not to mention the enormous goal difference.

Fair point, but as we're well past the halfway point I'd say West Ham should be looking at finishing about 9 points ahead of us unless either team goes on some lucky/unlucky run between now and the end of the season. That's hardly enough to suggest he's done a far better job in one season when you consider all the above. I think it would be ridiculous not to put the goal difference down to the period over Xmas where we got lost 3 games to an aggregate score of 15-0 at a time where experienced players in the squad were virtually none existent due to injuries. Any news on the figures?

[Kingthing]

Di Canio is available...

.....for the West Ham job, aaaarrrggghhh its all falling into place.

[Whiney MacWhineface]

I recommend that eastie check Gus Poyet's managerial record against Graham Turner's when we appointed him. Eerily similar.

[pauliewalnuts]

Those figures are just plain wrong.  And yes, Allardyce is clearly doing a much better job than Lambert, with a newly promoted side.  Lambert has performed appallingly, and West Ham are comfortably mid-table.

They're better off in terms of points - at the moment - but play one of the most horrendous brands of "football" you'll see anywhere.

If you can accept that way of playing and you're happy with it, then good for you, but you'll find yourself in a minority.

[Jockey Randall]

I think you need to cotton on to the way things are, JR, it's not enough that our league results and position are shit, it actually has to be EVERYTHING that is shit, which means all his signings are gash, too.

It certainly seems to be that way Paulie. I can understand people being angry and venting frustrations at what has happened with the club recently, I'm sure we all feel the same frustration and anger. I just don't understand the refusal in some parts to have a look back and the acknowledge the facts concerning the playing staff that have left the club in the last 2 years and how much money has been spent to replace them. Logic seems to have gone right out of the window.

[pauliewalnuts]

I think you need to cotton on to the way things are, JR, it's not enough that our league results and position are shit, it actually has to be EVERYTHING that is shit, which means all his signings are gash, too.

It certainly seems to be that way Paulie. I can understand people being angry and venting frustrations at what has happened with the club recently, I'm sure we all feel the same frustration and anger. I just don't understand the refusal in some parts to have a look back and the acknowledge the facts concerning the playing staff that have left the club in the last 2 years and how much money has been spent to replace them. Logic seems to have gone right out of the window.

And the weird thing is that a lot of the people who don't acknowledge that are perfectly happy to slate Lerner (as he deserves to be) for it, yet somewhat silent on it when discussing how the manager has done.

Lambert has got lots of stuff wrong, some of which was his fault, some of which was attributable to the people above him in the power structure, but I find it hard to take anyone seriously if they're not prepared to admit there's a single thing he's got right.

[KevinGage]

I guess it ultimately comes down to this:  Has he got enough right to keep his job? 

After presiding over our dismal run of form in Dec>Jan (and considering our form prior to that was non too hot either) I'd say no, in all honesty.  At just about any other top flight club, he'd have been made to walk the plank. 

It seems that even those going out on a limb to defend him do more so because of the fear of upheaval and instability again, rather than any great faith in Lambert's ability to turn things around. Though I'm past the point of defending him, I get that.  And feel the same way for the most part.  But sometimes it comes down to a lesser of two evils.  At the end of the season, we might look back at this period as the last chance to have altered our course.

As to what he's got right so far, I'd say

1. Benteke
2.Ditching Warnock and Hutton
3. Not playing with 9 men behind the ball, as per McLeish


Billy McNeill signed Alan McInally.  O'Leary signed Laursen.  The Nazis built fantastic roads. 

So what? 

Credit to him for not fudging every major decision he's had to make.  But he's got enough wrong to put his job in jeopardy. 

[dave.woodhall]

Graham Taylor signed McInally.

[villadelph]

If Sam does come in (which I currently regard as baseless dross) someone at the top of the food chain needs to be fired. You can't employ a new manager every 8 months and expect anything to actually change. The short-sightedness and loser mentality of this club is astounding. By bringing in another manager it completely exposes an ineptitude in creating a plan and also an inability to act on plans once they are in place. (ie. the last 3+ campaigns)

If I'm honest, I can't see it happening. BUT, if it were to occur someone in the upper brass needs to be hung out to dry and thrown under the bus. Address the mess! Heads should've been rolling in the last off season, but now for it all to continue and persist at an even greater level of distaste than before is appalling.

[Concrete John]

I guess it ultimately comes down to this:  Has he got enough right to keep his job? 

After presiding over our dismal run of form in Dec>Jan (and considering our form prior to that was non too hot either) I'd say no, in all honesty.  At just about any other top flight club, he'd have been made to walk the plank. 

It seems that even those going out on a limb to defend him do more so because of the fear of upheaval and instability again, rather than any great faith in Lambert's ability to turn things around. Though I'm past the point of defending him, I get that.  And feel the same way for the most part.  But sometimes it comes down to a lesser of two evils.  At the end of the season, we might look back at this period as the last chance to have altered our course.

As to what he's got right so far, I'd say

1. Benteke
2.Ditching Warnock and Hutton
3. Not playing with 9 men behind the ball, as per McLeish


Billy McNeill signed Alan McInally.  O'Leary signed Laursen.  The Nazis built fantastic roads. 

So what? 

Credit to him for not fudging every major decision he's had to make.  But he's got enough wrong to put his job in jeopardy.

Although a fair post on balance, the question I ask myself is "How well could he have realistically done?"

If you factor in the poor squad he inherited, missing Dunne and Petrov all season and the fundemantal changes he need to make to the way we were playing, what were our actual expectations this season?  And was the £20m or so he had to spend all that much given the cost of players and the amount we needed?
 
So when people say he's done a shit job, are they fully appreciating the difficulty of the job he had/has?   

[pauliewalnuts]

After presiding over our dismal run of form in Dec>Jan (and considering our form prior to that was non too hot either) I'd say no, in all honesty.  At just about any other top flight club, he'd have been made to walk the plank. 

That doesn't mattter though, does it?

It wasn't any other top flight club, it was ours, ours which has been on a downward spiral for a couple of years, which has an owner who has clearly lost interest.

How many other clubs have had the managerial turbulence we've had and managed to achieve anything?

It seems that even those going out on a limb to defend him do more so because of the fear of upheaval and instability again, rather than any great faith in Lambert's ability to turn things around. Though I'm past the point of defending him, I get that.  And feel the same way for the most part.  But sometimes it comes down to a lesser of two evils.  At the end of the season, we might look back at this period as the last chance to have altered our course.

That's my take, I want stability at the club, but I also think Lambert is the man to achieve something here, something forward looking and not built on foundations of sand, like our last spell of decent performances was.

I entirely understand he's done enough wrong to risk his job, I've said loads of times that, if you look at the table and the results this season, then yes, it's not difficult to conclude that he deserves the sack.

My argument, though, is that we've seen enough hints of what he is trying to do to make him worth persevering. Certainly so if the alternative is another managerial lurch and the appointment of a man who plays an entirely different brand of football - yet again.

What do people think would happen if Allardyce came in? Do they think we'd automatically sail up the table?

We'd have the same weak, unbalanced squad, the same wage bill issue, the same financial turmoil, these are all problems which are not going to just disappear overnight.

Lambert needs time, and I think most of us appreciate that, and you can cal it just a longing for stability, whatever the cost, but that's wrong. Lots of us are sick of the managerial merry-go-round and the accompanying burning of huge sums of money, and want the club to look a bit longer term.

[Risso]

I think the only thing that Lambert will achieve this year is relegation, and then you have to ask how viable the club will be going forward.  If it's the case that Lerner couldn't afford to buy the players that the world and his dog could see we needed this January, then he isn't going to be able to sustain the club in the Championship.