Barry "Messi" Bannan - again

[Toronto Villa]

I'm not one of Bannan's fans beause I really don't what he does or offers? I know he wants the ball, but when he gets it I rather wished he didn't get it. He is positionally challenged when covering his man and shit in the tackle when he needs to win it back. He poses no threat from set pieces at all, in any capacity yet wants to take them all. Does he not practice them, or watch film of himself after a game so can improve? It doesn't appear that he does. Yes he has a killer pass but "that" pass at Fulham aside when was the last time he played any kind of killer pass, simple or otherwise that actually worked? He looks like he's hustling but in reality he is behind the play most of the time.

Bannan for me either needs to work on his game really hard or concede that his a PL squad player at best, or Championship level. He's certainly not good enough starting for us on a regular basis in my opinion.

[citizenDJ]

In a funny way I blame and Bannan and Westwood more than Bennett for the first.

I know what you mean about this. Having watched it over a few times, while it is a very weak pass from Bennett, I do think one of Bannan or Westwood should have had the assertiveness to go to the ball rather than simply leave it to each other.

Any way you look at it, it's poor play though.

[Lastfootstamper]

In a funny way I blame and Bannan and Westwood more than Bennett for the first.

I know what you mean about this. Having watched it over a few times, while it is a very weak pass from Bennett, I do think one of Bannan or Westwood should have had the assertiveness to go to the ball rather than simply leave it to each other.

Any way you look at it, it's poor play though.

There was a fleeting moment's yes-no-yes between Westie and BB; brief, yet the sort of thing that generally precedes a run-out

[nigel]

In a funny way I blame and Bannan and Westwood more than Bennett for the first.

I know what you mean about this. Having watched it over a few times, while it is a very weak pass from Bennett, I do think one of Bannan or Westwood should have had the assertiveness to go to the ball rather than simply leave it to each other.

Any way you look at it, it's poor play though.

There was a fleeting moment's yes-no-yes between Westie and BB; brief, yet the sort of thing that generally precedes a run-out

I said at the time that I'd need to see it on TV to get a better perspective.

A couple of people by me were slating Bennett, I told them to watch it on motd, as they might see that although it wasn't a great pass there were 2 players who seemed to leave it to each other.

[paul_e]

In a funny way I blame and Bannan and Westwood more than Bennett for the first.

I know what you mean about this. Having watched it over a few times, while it is a very weak pass from Bennett, I do think one of Bannan or Westwood should have had the assertiveness to go to the ball rather than simply leave it to each other.

Any way you look at it, it's poor play though.

There was a fleeting moment's yes-no-yes between Westie and BB; brief, yet the sort of thing that generally precedes a run-out

I said at the time that I'd need to see it on TV to get a better perspective.

A couple of people by me were slating Bennett, I told them to watch it on motd, as they might see that although it wasn't a great pass there were 2 players who seemed to leave it to each other.

From what I remember it was behind Bannan and in front of Westwood, in which case it should be Westwood's responsibility to pick it up.

[tomd2103]

If we do manage to stay up this season, then we are going to have look at how we are going to improve and move the club forwards.  In my opinion, Bannan is not a player who is going to do that, neither are the likes of Clark and Baker.  It's no coincidence that when those players (and some of the other younger players) have featured together in the past three seasons for a number games, we have invariably dropped towards the relegation zone.  The sooner we can get into a position where we are no longer reliant on them the better.

   

[Fasth56]

If we do manage to stay up this season, then we are going to have look at how we are going to improve and move the club forwards.  In my opinion, Bannan is not a player who is going to do that, neither are the likes of Clark and Baker.  It's no coincidence that when those players (and some of the other younger players) have featured together in the past three seasons for a number games, we have invariably dropped towards the relegation zone.  The sooner we can get into a position where we are no longer reliant on them the better.
   

A point of view from QPRdot.org

Just back from Villa Park and need to vent. We completely outplayed Villa first half and but for some world class saves from Guzan and some bad luck we should of been 3-0 up. Done and dusted. Villa reeling. Villa's youngsters were chasing the shadows of our more experienced, 'better-on-paper' team yet they stuck to their guns, fought for their shirt knowing that the weight of Villa history was on their backs.
From the moment Bosingwa lost the ball, Fabio sat-off and let the opposition cross into the area and Cesar embarassingly stayed on his line, I knew the game was over. You can have all the talent, skill and speed in your side but it was painfully obvious that if you lack heart and a love of the shirt you are not going to succeed. Villa's desire and fight was commendable whereas our lack of hunger second half was disgraceful. Villa were a united front and we were a team of individuals each with his own agenda; only Townsend's exuberance of youth and Hill's never-say-die attitude deserved any credit for me. We have got to learn from this next time around. And by next time around I mean the next time we are in the premiership because it's over in my opinion. No more hired guns looking for a big pay day, no more veterans who make an effort but lack the desire - we need youngsters of the Villa ilk who understand that the shirt they wear on their backs means a great deal to multiple generations of people. We need players who recognize the honour of playing in the blue and white hoops. Not players who will be at home tonight dwelling on their next career moves.

[tomd2103]

If we do manage to stay up this season, then we are going to have look at how we are going to improve and move the club forwards.  In my opinion, Bannan is not a player who is going to do that, neither are the likes of Clark and Baker.  It's no coincidence that when those players (and some of the other younger players) have featured together in the past three seasons for a number games, we have invariably dropped towards the relegation zone.  The sooner we can get into a position where we are no longer reliant on them the better.
   

A point of view from QPRdot.org

Just back from Villa Park and need to vent. We completely outplayed Villa first half and but for some world class saves from Guzan and some bad luck we should of been 3-0 up. Done and dusted. Villa reeling. Villa's youngsters were chasing the shadows of our more experienced, 'better-on-paper' team yet they stuck to their guns, fought for their shirt knowing that the weight of Villa history was on their backs.
From the moment Bosingwa lost the ball, Fabio sat-off and let the opposition cross into the area and Cesar embarassingly stayed on his line, I knew the game was over. You can have all the talent, skill and speed in your side but it was painfully obvious that if you lack heart and a love of the shirt you are not going to succeed. Villa's desire and fight was commendable whereas our lack of hunger second half was disgraceful. Villa were a united front and we were a team of individuals each with his own agenda; only Townsend's exuberance of youth and Hill's never-say-die attitude deserved any credit for me. We have got to learn from this next time around. And by next time around I mean the next time we are in the premiership because it's over in my opinion. No more hired guns looking for a big pay day, no more veterans who make an effort but lack the desire - we need youngsters of the Villa ilk who understand that the shirt they wear on their backs means a great deal to multiple generations of people. We need players who recognize the honour of playing in the blue and white hoops. Not players who will be at home tonight dwelling on their next career moves.

Again, I'm not sure where this idea that all experienced players are mercenaries who lack desire comes from.  Added to that, some of our younger players have hardly been full of desire and effort during the past couple of seasons. 

[peter w]

The trouble with Bannan is that he's a Championship level player at best. He plays 1 good game in 5 and that's not good enough for the top division.

[seanthevillan]

The trouble with Bannan is that he's a Championship level player at best. He plays 1 good game in 5 and that's not good enough for the top division.

For me he's just played two good games out of two, the unbiased commentators over here said pretty much the same thing (on the whole I'm a Bannan fan).

[Monty]

I still find it strange how we win 2 out of 2 with Bannan in our much-maligned midfield - also, clearly losing our composure against Reading when he came off - and people still berate him. I thought he was very good in the two matches - there's been a lot of (often justified) praise of Westwood for that astonishing 97% statistic, but to be honest I thought Bannan tried a lot more risky and attacking passes than Westwood (which might, of course, reflect their jobs - Westwood evidently did his really well), and made ground for us in many unlikely situations. He has done very well and people berating him after wins seem to have an agenda to fulfill more than a point to be made.

This said, I'm not even saying he should be first-choice: Delph, Westwood, Sylla and N'Zogbia stake various stylistic claims to a place, and Bannan's is one of those under threat. I would argue, however, that his performances have undoubtedly made him part of the argument. He is not fodder that we win in spite of - as if we have a team who can win in spite of a player not pulling their weight: he has helped us win the last two matches in no small way and should be recognised and respected for that.

[tomd2103]

I still find it strange how we win 2 out of 2 with Bannan in our much-maligned midfield - also, clearly losing our composure against Reading when he came off - and people still berate him. I thought he was very good in the two matches - there's been a lot of (often justified) praise of Westwood for that astonishing 97% statistic, but to be honest I thought Bannan tried a lot more risky and attacking passes than Westwood (which might, of course, reflect their jobs - Westwood evidently did his really well), and made ground for us in many unlikely situations. He has done very well and people berating him after wins seem to have an agenda to fulfill more than a point to be made.

This said, I'm not even saying he should be first-choice: Delph, Westwood, Sylla and N'Zogbia stake various stylistic claims to a place, and Bannan's is one of those under threat. I would argue, however, that his performances have undoubtedly made him part of the argument. He is not fodder that we win in spite of - as if we have a team who can win in spite of a player not pulling their weight: he has helped us win the last two matches in no small way and should be recognised and respected for that.

I didn't think he had a very good first half yesterday Monty, but was better in the second period (which applies for most of the team to be honest).  He still got brushed off the ball far too easily at times though and his set pieces were not great (neither were Westwood's). 

I'm not sure about the flat three we played in midfield yesterday, especially as all three seemed to be playing pretty much the same style (short passes, keeping possession).       

[Monty]

I thought he was the pick of the midfielders up until the Jenas goal (frankly an insult to the world, having him score against us), at which point the team kind of went to pieces until we somehow dragged our way level on half time. I agree with you on the set-pieces - they're taking 'outswinging' floaters, and they should certtainly switch sides as we have good evidence that they're good, whipping crossers of the ball, given the chance - but I didn't think he was 'brushed off the ball' any worse than our other players (other than the frankly abnormal Benteke) - even Sylla got himself into positional trouble, and Bannan's tackle-completion rate was as good as his.

I can see what you mean about that flat three, but out of them Bannan was definitely the most forward-looking, and most willing to try risky things which might not work but often do. I still think we're a better team with him, and certainly a better overall squad.  If only they'd get those set-pieces right, because Westwood doing the 'floaters' makes me think it's not just Bannan's initiative: it's a directiive, and a misguided one, plainly.

[nigel]

I still find it strange how we win 2 out of 2 with Bannan in our much-maligned midfield - also, clearly losing our composure against Reading when he came off - and people still berate him. I thought he was very good in the two matches - there's been a lot of (often justified) praise of Westwood for that astonishing 97% statistic, but to be honest I thought Bannan tried a lot more risky and attacking passes than Westwood (which might, of course, reflect their jobs - Westwood evidently did his really well), and made ground for us in many unlikely situations. He has done very well and people berating him after wins seem to have an agenda to fulfill more than a point to be made.

This said, I'm not even saying he should be first-choice: Delph, Westwood, Sylla and N'Zogbia stake various stylistic claims to a place, and Bannan's is one of those under threat. I would argue, however, that his performances have undoubtedly made him part of the argument. He is not fodder that we win in spite of - as if we have a team who can win in spite of a player not pulling their weight: he has helped us win the last two matches in no small way and should be recognised and respected for that.

An unbiased, well worded post.

[paul_e]

I still find it strange how we win 2 out of 2 with Bannan in our much-maligned midfield - also, clearly losing our composure against Reading when he came off - and people still berate him. I thought he was very good in the two matches - there's been a lot of (often justified) praise of Westwood for that astonishing 97% statistic, but to be honest I thought Bannan tried a lot more risky and attacking passes than Westwood (which might, of course, reflect their jobs - Westwood evidently did his really well), and made ground for us in many unlikely situations. He has done very well and people berating him after wins seem to have an agenda to fulfill more than a point to be made.

This said, I'm not even saying he should be first-choice: Delph, Westwood, Sylla and N'Zogbia stake various stylistic claims to a place, and Bannan's is one of those under threat. I would argue, however, that his performances have undoubtedly made him part of the argument. He is not fodder that we win in spite of - as if we have a team who can win in spite of a player not pulling their weight: he has helped us win the last two matches in no small way and should be recognised and respected for that.

Sums up my opinion perfectly.  As said many times on this thread, for some strange reason people focus on what he doesn't do and ignore the good stuff.  I'd be ok with that if it applied to everyone but Bannan (and Clark and Bennett in my opinion) seems to be judged differently to a lot of the other guys.