Randy Lerner

[pestria]

Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?

Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably

Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.

To be honest, what I like about the lower league signings is that they look less 'manufactured' than the academy products. In 'The Secret Footballer' book the author spends time on this point. Manufactured players from the top clubs have been coached from a very young age and lose some of the natural instinct whereas players who have worked their way up the hard way tend to have a bit more drive, hunger, heart and natural attributes.

I haven't explained myself very well but I think most of you will know what I am getting at. Delph, to me, looks like he came off a conveyor belt and so isn't brilliant at any one thing. Ashley Westwood on the other hand looks like a footballer who came through because he was good and worked hard.

Understand what you're saying but it flies in the face of the reality of world football, where Spain and Germany stand out with their success based on outstanding technical skills and methods of play based on a coaching philosophy embedded into their structure.

[Greg N'Ash]

Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?

Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably

Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.

I don't think we planned to, but the senior players that should have been playing in their stead aren't due to either injury or lack of form.

Who would be playing instead of Lowton and Bennett?  Or Westwood?

Indeed. Most of us agreed and indeed welcomed the idea of getting rid of paying highly paid reserves in favour of the youth team or young players with potential brought in. What we hadn't envisaged was they would be most of the 1st team. And to think i used to worry about not having an experienced right-back......

[Risso]

Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?

Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably

Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.

I don't think we planned to, but the senior players that should have been playing in their stead aren't due to either injury or lack of form.

Who would be playing instead of Lowton and Bennett?  Or Westwood?

It's not a case of 'instead of', but rather alongside and/or rotated with.

However, in answer I'd say KEA/Ireland for Westwood.  The FBs is different as they needed changing, so that's more of a case of Lowton and Bennett playing with experienced CBs (Vlaar/Dunne) to help them and also a more experienced midfield infront of them.   

You said "In their stead".  The reason we've got so many young players in the squad is that Lambert chose to go into a new season with two out of three fit central defenders being Clark and Baker, and he then replaced Warnock and Hutton with Lowton and Bennett.  The only experienced midfielder he bought was KEA, and he has turned out to be massively shit, and was always going to be away in January anyhow.  Lately he's chosen to keep Ireland and Holman on the bench, so the number of kids playing due to injuries just doesn't wash as an excuse I'm afraid.  Likewise, even before he was injured, Bent was left out in favour of Benteke and/or Weimann.

[Concrete John]

Yes, people moan about us getting lower league and unknown foreign talent. Where did bale, Lennon, Dawson, huddlestone, assou-ekotto, Kyle walker, come from?

Admittedly, a key difference might be that spurs also invested in really classy players when they did splash the cash (modric for the price of Davies plus harewood, vdv for the price of reo Coker, Defoe for the price of Carlos cuellar, etc etc!) and paid them less wages probably

Lots of good players start in the lower leagues. The question is whether you should throw so many of them into the front line straight away.

I don't think we planned to, but the senior players that should have been playing in their stead aren't due to either injury or lack of form.

Who would be playing instead of Lowton and Bennett?  Or Westwood?

It's not a case of 'instead of', but rather alongside and/or rotated with.

However, in answer I'd say KEA/Ireland for Westwood.  The FBs is different as they needed changing, so that's more of a case of Lowton and Bennett playing with experienced CBs (Vlaar/Dunne) to help them and also a more experienced midfield infront of them.   

You said "In their stead".  The reason we've got so many young players in the squad is that Lambert chose to go into a new season with two out of three fit central defenders being Clark and Baker, and he then replaced Warnock and Hutton with Lowton and Bennett.  The only experienced midfielder he bought was KEA, and he has turned out to be massively shit, and was always going to be away in January anyhow.  Lately he's chosen to keep Ireland and Holman on the bench, so the number of kids playing due to injuries just doesn't wash as an excuse I'm afraid.  Likewise, even before he was injured, Bent was left out in favour of Benteke and/or Weimann.

A few points:-
1.  Warnock and Hutton needed replaving, as you well know.  As we couldn't shift them out, I'd imagine money was limited for their replacements.  At least in Lowton he seems to have got that right.
2.  KEA has not 'turned out to be massively shit', although he hasn't been as good as hoped yet, despite a promising start to his Villa career.  Who's to say he won't be similar to Petrov, who turned out fine for us after a ropey first season?
3.  It may not wash as an excuse for you, and your entitled to that opinion, but when the experienced players have been putting in performances like Ireland and N'Zogbia, I'm gonna forgive the manager for not playing them.

[Risso]

A few points:-
1.  Warnock and Hutton needed replaving, as you well know.  As we couldn't shift them out, I'd imagine money was limited for their replacements.  At least in Lowton he seems to have got that right.
2.  KEA has not 'turned out to be massively shit', although he hasn't been as good as hoped yet, despite a promising start to his Villa career.  Who's to say he won't be similar to Petrov, who turned out fine for us after a ropey first season?
3.  It may not wash as an excuse for you, and your entitled to that opinion, but when the experienced players have been putting in performances like Ireland and N'Zogbia, I'm gonna forgive the manager for not playing them.

All of that is fine, but it does reinforce the opinion that the majority of the kids would be playing now, injury crisis or not.

[Concrete John]

A few points:-
1.  Warnock and Hutton needed replaving, as you well know.  As we couldn't shift them out, I'd imagine money was limited for their replacements.  At least in Lowton he seems to have got that right.
2.  KEA has not 'turned out to be massively shit', although he hasn't been as good as hoped yet, despite a promising start to his Villa career.  Who's to say he won't be similar to Petrov, who turned out fine for us after a ropey first season?
3.  It may not wash as an excuse for you, and your entitled to that opinion, but when the experienced players have been putting in performances like Ireland and N'Zogbia, I'm gonna forgive the manager for not playing them.

All of that is fine, but it does reinforce the opinion that the majority of the kids would be playing now, injury crisis or not.

Majority?  Possibly, but you stick a Vlaar and/or Dunne in the defence and things would tighten up and we'd gain some more organization.  The likes of Lowton, Benteke, Weimann and Westwood deserve their place, so would and should be playing.

Just out of interest, what should he have done in the summer?  The squad needed major surgery and from the perspective of both fees and wages, we did not have megabucks to spend.  Had he bought an experienced CB and FB these players would not have been of all that high a level, given what we could attract and what we had to spend, and would probably have meant 3 or 4 of the younger signings we did make could not have happened!   

[Ian.]

Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.

That'd be my preferred option.

Relegation would be fecking horrible. Newcastle came back up largely because they held on to pretty much all their better players. There's no guarantee we would do the same.

Without wishing to piss on your bonfire, you do realise that the Spurs revival came about as a result of sacking their underperforming manager in October of that year?  After he'd won them the League Cup as well. It's not about sticking with rubbish managers come what may, it's about appointing the right man, and I can't see anything that suggests Lambert is moving us in the right direction.  Spurs haven't really looked back, although of course it does require the owner not to be a complete div as well.

I still believe we don't need to change the manager to have this revival, I'm confident Lambert is the man to do it. I can totally understand why after the start we have made and the very recent results you may think he is not up to it. Most of his signings are very good and will get better. He really does need to add some steel and experience now though.

The squad he has inherited was woeful and also the team have had no real influence since MON left. The input GH made just seemed to turn the squad against the management and AM seemed to only know how to try and defend, but we could not even do that.

Lambert is making mistakes I agree but injuries have not helped and again certain players we might expect to perform have not. However I'm sure he will turn this around and we will reap the benefits with his ways come next season. At times we have shown good spells and looked great but more consistency, back bone and confidence is most certainly required.

[pauliewalnuts]

Or instead of getting relegated we could do what Spurs did a few years back while hovering over the relegation zone and get our act together and put in a decent run now creating the confidence for next season.
During the summer we can add some more quality and finally our last few years of dross are behind us.

That'd be my preferred option.

Relegation would be fecking horrible. Newcastle came back up largely because they held on to pretty much all their better players. There's no guarantee we would do the same.

Without wishing to piss on your bonfire, you do realise that the Spurs revival came about as a result of sacking their underperforming manager in October of that year?  After he'd won them the League Cup as well. It's not about sticking with rubbish managers come what may, it's about appointing the right man, and I can't see anything that suggests Lambert is moving us in the right direction.  Spurs haven't really looked back, although of course it does require the owner not to be a complete div as well.

What has that got to do with my mention of Newcastle managing to bounce back?

I entirely understand the fact that Spurs managed to avoid relegation and turn things around by replacing the manager, but then again, I could give you plenty of examples of teams that went to shit when replacing their manager to try to stave off relegation.

Also, you said yourself - they replaced their manager in *October*

Seeing as we can't wind the clock back, we're faced with what to do about our manager in January. For all the thousands of words you've used to expound on your belief Lambert deserves the bullet, the best you can do as an alternative is Di Matteo, with the proviso he's been spending his time off scouting and preparing a list of transfer targets, and we can get him in toute de suite.

Honestly, you're all over the shop on this one.

I totally understand you're angry about things, and it hasn't passed me by that our league results have been dreadfully poor this season. you keep on telling us this as if we're supposed to have not noticed it or something,  but beyond satisfying your blood lust, I honestly can't see what changing manager two days into the January transfer window is going to do to help us.

You've given him half a season. That's not nearly enough. in the next breath you'll be complaining about us not spending enough money, ignoring the fact that sacking Lambert would mean wasting yet more money on manager compensation.

[Risso]

In the next breath you'll be complaining about us not spending enough money, ignoring the fact that sacking Lambert would mean wasting yet more money on manager compensation.

And you'll be telling us we'll be winning the title next season, and Lambert will be elected as President of the World and we'll have 2,000,000 sell out attendances every game, ignoring the fact that our ground doesn't *even* hold 2,000,000.  That's be like, the entire population of the Birmingham conurbation you great dufus. FFS!

[Sexual Ealing]

In the next breath you'll be complaining about us not spending enough money, ignoring the fact that sacking Lambert would mean wasting yet more money on manager compensation.

And you'll be telling us we'll be winning the title next season, and Lambert will be elected as President of the World and we'll have 2,000,000 sell out attendances every game, ignoring the fact that our ground doesn't *even* hold 2,000,000.  That's be like, the entire population of the Birmingham conurbation you great dufus. FFS!

But what he wrote is entirely consistent with the things you always moan about (and, Jesus, you can moan). What you wrote doesn't make any sense. Unless it was supposed to be funny. If so, well done for trying.

[Risso]

In the next breath you'll be complaining about us not spending enough money, ignoring the fact that sacking Lambert would mean wasting yet more money on manager compensation.

And you'll be telling us we'll be winning the title next season, and Lambert will be elected as President of the World and we'll have 2,000,000 sell out attendances every game, ignoring the fact that our ground doesn't *even* hold 2,000,000.  That's be like, the entire population of the Birmingham conurbation you great dufus. FFS!

But what he wrote is entirely consistent with the things you always moan about (and, Jesus, you can moan). What you wrote doesn't make any sense. Unless it was supposed to be funny. If so, well done for trying.

Two points:

1) Actually, I was pleasantly surprised by how much money Lerner made available to Lambert in the summer, and haven't once said that we didn't spend enough money.  The statement was therefore, a straw man argument which is the reason I responded in kind.

2) You're seriously criticising another poster for trying to be funny?  You who apparently thinks it's hilarious to post "I am a twat" every other post?  Wow.

[Sexual Ealing]

I am a twat.

[TheSandman]

Wibble.

[Brian Taylor]

If he does not open his wallet in next week, or so, then we is cattle trucked!

[Stu]

Asked for that, really.