Randy Lerner

[MarkM]

Lets face it go outside of the Midlands and the Villa are almost invisible.

You can go to any place in the UK and see Man U, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea merchandise on sale.

It seems that we had a 'bingo or bollox' strategy. The bingo being Champions League and the bollox being where we are now.

My own view is that the club failed to properly monitor and assess what was actually going on in terms of contracts / players wages etc [I mean come on, had any of them asked one of us if we would agree to sign Heskey and pay him 80K a week we would have laughed them out of the room!] you dont have to be a footballing genious to see that MoN was signing some real crap

[pauliewalnuts]

I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge. 

I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions.  I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win.  Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.

I think part of the problem is that we've got too much local competition rather than not much. We share an area of approx. 2 million people with three other major clubs - and for all we look down on them, they've spent much of our history all in the top division with us. That doesn't happen anywhere else; if you compare the top clubs in London as one, you may as well throw in Stoke and the East Midlands to us. 

The population of the Bham conurbation is more like 3m than 2m, but yes, I see your point.

[Concrete John]

I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge. 

I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions.  I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win.  Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.

I think part of the problem is that we've got too much local competition rather than not much. We share an area of approx. 2 million people with three other major clubs - and for all we look down on them, they've spent much of our history all in the top division with us. That doesn't happen anywhere else; if you compare the top clubs in London as one, you may as well throw in Stoke and the East Midlands to us. 

People in the West Midlands just don't go to football as much as people in the North West or North East.  I've no idea how I'd find my post but I did an analysis based on the average attendances of all league clubs in each area and the population of those areas.  IIRC on average 3.5% of the West Midlands population went to a football match every fortnight, versus 4% in the North East and 4.5% in the North West.  I'm sure Randy's advisors thought they could change that with the right marketing, etc as you said.

I don't remember seeing the analysis but lot's of people in the West Midlands go to Manchester to watch football, and I's suggest at least 30% of the Old Trafford crowd is made up of non-locals. Similarly Liverpool attract support from a wide catchment area.

Which is probably a fair point and not one I imagine Randy or his advisors realised before he bought the Villa.

I think that, be it through CL money, gate receipts or merchandise, they expected to grow the income of the club from the investment they made.  Basically a speculate to accumulate strategy, which is what we often criticised Doug for not doing.  We can argue the whys of it as much as we like, but ultimately this did not happen and so the spending had to be reigned in as it became clear the rewards would not be forthcoming.     

Some will blame him for stopping, some for doing it wrong, but we shouldn't be blaming him for trying!

[dave.woodhall]

They started building it and we didn't come, so they stopped building it.

[pauliewalnuts]

We did come, though, more than we had for a long time.

One of the big problems with how Randy's money was spent was that it didn't really involve many bums-on-seats players. The likes of Milner were excellent players, but nobody was going to come to the games just to watch him.

[pauliewalnuts]

I think that, be it through CL money, gate receipts or merchandise, they expected to grow the income of the club from the investment they made.  Basically a speculate to accumulate strategy, which is what we often criticised Doug for not doing.  We can argue the whys of it as much as we like, but ultimately this did not happen and so the spending had to be reigned in as it became clear the rewards would not be forthcoming.     

That's a naive way for them to look at it, though.

They should have had a look at what long term financial impact CL qualification had for Everton - nothing.

[dave.woodhall]

We came in  increased numbers, but not to the extent they thought we would. The general's comment about "Four thousand empty seats, what more can we do?" was a very pertinent one although we didn't realise it at the time. 

[Risso]

I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge. 

I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions.  I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win.  Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.

I think part of the problem is that we've got too much local competition rather than not much. We share an area of approx. 2 million people with three other major clubs - and for all we look down on them, they've spent much of our history all in the top division with us. That doesn't happen anywhere else; if you compare the top clubs in London as one, you may as well throw in Stoke and the East Midlands to us. 

In the Premier League era (and it is an important distinction in terms of money and general wealth) how many years have SHA, Smethwick and Wolves played in the Premir League compared to us.  I'd be surprised if the other three in total add up to ours.

[Concrete John]

I'd class Young and Carew as 'bums on seats players', as was Gabby when he first broke into the side.

[dave.woodhall]

I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge. 

I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions.  I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win.  Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.

I think part of the problem is that we've got too much local competition rather than not much. We share an area of approx. 2 million people with three other major clubs - and for all we look down on them, they've spent much of our history all in the top division with us. That doesn't happen anywhere else; if you compare the top clubs in London as one, you may as well throw in Stoke and the East Midlands to us. 

In the Premier League era (and it is an important distinction in terms of money and general wealth) how many years have SHA, Smethwick and Wolves played in the Premir League compared to us.  I'd be surprised if the other three in total add up to ours.

Whether they do or they don't they still each have a comparatively large fanbase.

[Concrete John]

I think that, be it through CL money, gate receipts or merchandise, they expected to grow the income of the club from the investment they made.  Basically a speculate to accumulate strategy, which is what we often criticised Doug for not doing.  We can argue the whys of it as much as we like, but ultimately this did not happen and so the spending had to be reigned in as it became clear the rewards would not be forthcoming.     

That's a naive way for them to look at it, though.

They should have had a look at what long term financial impact CL qualification had for Everton - nothing.

I think their CL ambitions was more than one 4th place finish and then going out in the qualifying rounds. 

[Risso]

I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge. 

I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions.  I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win.  Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.

I think part of the problem is that we've got too much local competition rather than not much. We share an area of approx. 2 million people with three other major clubs - and for all we look down on them, they've spent much of our history all in the top division with us. That doesn't happen anywhere else; if you compare the top clubs in London as one, you may as well throw in Stoke and the East Midlands to us. 

The population of the Bham conurbation is more like 3m than 2m, but yes, I see your point.

I expect Greater Manchester is smaller than that, and they have Man U, Man City, Wigan and Bolton, not to mention other clubs like Rochdale, Oldham, Stockport and Bury within striking disctance.

[Bad English]

I'd class Young and Carew as 'bums on seats players', as was Gabby when he first broke into the side.

Not forgetting Heskey, who was a bum on pitch player. And, not so long ago, Barry was a bum on two seats player.

I am bored.

[MarkM]

If you look at RL's tenure in terms of success or failure against a set of objectives then we could then judge if it has been a success or failure.

If the objective was to get Villa into the CL and to increase revenue's on the back it and at the same time to increase attendance on the back of the CL, leading onto an increase in the gate to 51K, then it has been a failure.

Although that puts us in a bad position at present it can rectified.

RL and PL need to steady the listing ship and bring on some balast to get us properly afloat again, at the moment we are holed below the waterline and appear to be adrift without the captain at the helm [I am trying to get in as many sailing cliches as possible] So we can only hope that RL is not doing a Captian Smith and and will take the avoiding measures necessary to miss the relegation iceberg that is on the horizon

[MarkM]

I pretty much agree with all of the above, except I also think that the board believed that proper marketing and a whiff of success would bring in the crowds to the point where a 51k stadium was both viable and filled most of the time, and our merchandise would be sold around the world. That might be naive in hindsight but a lot of us thought that once Doug had gone the club would soar to the heavens regardless of who was in charge. 

I think you're right and I've put posts on here before showing that Villa relatively punch below their weight given the population of the West Midlands and the local competition when compared to other regions.  I'm sure Randy looked at that and thought it was a relatively easy win.  Couple that with the fact that HDE's vice-like grip on the finances meant we had no debt and we were a fantastic investment opportunity.

I think part of the problem is that we've got too much local competition rather than not much. We share an area of approx. 2 million people with three other major clubs - and for all we look down on them, they've spent much of our history all in the top division with us. That doesn't happen anywhere else; if you compare the top clubs in London as one, you may as well throw in Stoke and the East Midlands to us. 

The population of the Bham conurbation is more like 3m than 2m, but yes, I see your point.

I expect Greater Manchester is smaller than that, and they have Man U, Man City, Wigan and Bolton, not to mention other clubs like Rochdale, Oldham, Stockport and Bury within striking disctance.

The population of the West Midlands is approxiamtely 5.6 million [so we get on average 0.53% of the population attend VP]