Ashley Westwood - Sold to Burnley

[Neil Hawkes]

RE Carrick and Westwood, Carrick's range of passing was/is on a complete different level to Westwood's.

When Sven G-E was England manager he was asked why he never picked Gazza Bazza: he answered "I just don't like him".
Barry went on to win dozens of caps, later.

Why was TSM so fixated on buying NZog? - he'd hardly been a consistent performer, yet TSM tried to buy him at the Sty and then immediately did so when at our place.

Managers convince themselves about the pros and cons of certain players, almost without rationale.

Oh I'm sure there is plenty of rationale behind the decision in much the same way as we see that "must have item" in the shop and only find out after you've bought it that actually it is a bit shit

[old man villa fan]

There is a big difference between (i) just moving the ball around for the sake of it and (ii) probing for openings.  I think Westwood is more inclined towards the former.

[silhillvilla]

If westwood plays tomorrow I hope he's at least relieved of corner duties. They are infuriating.

[old man villa fan]

If westwood plays tomorrow I hope he's at least relieved of corner duties. They are infuriating.

Everton use Baines (when he is fit) for most dead ball kicks.  I wonder what Amavi would be like or put it another way, he couldn't be much worse than we have had to put up with the last couple of years.  From memory, through the haze of crapness last year, our best corners were by Grealish and Gill, so why not now?

[passitsideways]

There is a big difference between (i) just moving the ball around for the sake of it and (ii) probing for openings.  I think Westwood is more inclined towards the former.

Except (i) is still a useful skill, which you have to do when (ii) is not on, especially when the other team is pressing and trying to win the ball back in a hurry. Maybe Westwood doesn't do enough of (ii), but that doesn't mean he's worthless because he's more inclined towards (i)

[OCD]

If westwood plays tomorrow I hope he's at least relieved of corner duties. They are infuriating.

Everton use Baines (when he is fit) for most dead ball kicks.  I wonder what Amavi would be like or put it another way, he couldn't be much worse than we have had to put up with the last couple of years.  From memory, through the haze of crapness last year, our best corners were by Grealish and Gill, so why not now?

Grealish would take 3 or 4 really good corners and then they would go to shit. I don't see why he can't take the first few and then let someone else the moment the quality drops.

[old man villa fan]

There is a big difference between (i) just moving the ball around for the sake of it and (ii) probing for openings.  I think Westwood is more inclined towards the former.

Except (i) is still a useful skill, which you have to do when (ii) is not on, especially when the other team is pressing and trying to win the ball back in a hurry. Maybe Westwood doesn't do enough of (ii), but that doesn't mean he's worthless because he's more inclined towards (i)

No, you should only use (i) if you are trying to waste time.  You should always be looking to do (ii), which involves moving the ball around to draw players out and creates the openings.  If the opposition is pressing, you use short passes to get behind them and past the first line of defence.  If you are doing (i), you are just using energy for no reward.

Perhaps our lack of chances created last season was due to too much of (i).

[villan from luton]

To be fair, sometimes the lack of movement from the forward players has restricted passing options for a lot of the players

[old man villa fan]

To be fair, sometimes the lack of movement from the forward players has restricted passing options for a lot of the players

Movement is the key to creating space and openings all over the pitch.  It also makes passing so much easier.

[adrenachrome]

When Sven G-E was England manager he was asked why he never picked Gazza Bazza: he answered "I just don't like him".
Barry went on to win dozens of caps, later.

Why was TSM so fixated on buying NZog? - he'd hardly been a consistent performer, yet TSM tried to buy him at the Sty and then immediately did so when at our place.

Managers convince themselves about the pros and cons of certain players, almost without rationale.

I don't think the ultra defensive minded  Sven's "dislike" of GB was without rationale. Barry, for all his undoubted natural ability, would make a lateral pass to the opposition in a very dangerous area at least once every game. I know Sven is a Swede, but he he is an Italian in football terms and GB's peccadillo  is not the Italian way. 

[villan from luton]

To be fair, sometimes the lack of movement from the forward players has restricted passing options for a lot of the players

Movement is the key to creating space and openings all over the pitch.  It also makes passing so much easier.

Couldn't agree more.

[pauliewalnuts]

To be fair, sometimes the lack of movement from the forward players has restricted passing options for a lot of the players

Movement is the key to creating space and openings all over the pitch.  It also makes passing so much easier.

Couldn't agree more.

Movement - the lack of it off the ball - has been our most chronic failing for most of the last twenty years or so. It drives me absolutely nuts.

[villan from luton]

The thing is most of our players now are comfortable on the ball, so they should be happy to accept it in sometimes tight positions. Hate t when a player passes and just stands still

[KRS]

To be fair, sometimes the lack of movement from the forward players has restricted passing options for a lot of the players

Movement is the key to creating space and openings all over the pitch.  It also makes passing so much easier.

Couldn't agree more.

Movement - the lack of it off the ball - has been our most chronic failing for most of the last twenty years or so. It drives me absolutely nuts.

Absolutely agree. The lack of movement from our forward line is pathetic at best. There have been far too many times in recent games where they stand there like statues next to their markers. Against Blose on Tuesday, we saw Gabby, Gestede and Sinclair literally standing next to each other in the box and neither of them made a run or found space with midfield looking for the next ball. Very frustrating to watch.

[passitsideways]

There is a big difference between (i) just moving the ball around for the sake of it and (ii) probing for openings.  I think Westwood is more inclined towards the former.

Except (i) is still a useful skill, which you have to do when (ii) is not on, especially when the other team is pressing and trying to win the ball back in a hurry. Maybe Westwood doesn't do enough of (ii), but that doesn't mean he's worthless because he's more inclined towards (i)

No, you should only use (i) if you are trying to waste time.  You should always be looking to do (ii), which involves moving the ball around to draw players out and creates the openings.  If the opposition is pressing, you use short passes to get behind them and past the first line of defence.  If you are doing (i), you are just using energy for no reward.

Perhaps our lack of chances created last season was due to too much of (i).

I guess we've got different understandings of the two. As far as I'm concerned, moving the ball around for the sake of it does in fact draw players out, providing that they're not being instructed to sit deep. I see (ii) as more being able to spot a through ball or a chipped ball over the top, or running at a defender with the direct intention of playing a quick one-two to get past them, or drawing them out only to slip the ball to someone else at the last moment.