Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: PaulWinch again on November 25, 2012, 03:24:07 PM
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I hadn't noticed a thread about him, but think since he became a fixture in the side he's been excellent. He has great vision and composure and he is what we've been missing for a long time, a midfielder who can retain possession and pick a pass. He's also very mature for his age, he is constantly instructing players around him about their positioning. I think he's very much future captain material.
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Extremely impressed. A month ago I was worried about what would happen when KEA disappears for the ACoN. Now he's ahead of him in the side on merit. A real team player, very good technically and unfazed (at least since his Southampton jitters).
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I hadn't noticed a thread about him, but think since he became a fixture in the side he's been excellent. He has great vision and composure and he is what we've been missing for a long time, a midfielder who can retain possession and pick a pass. He's also very mature for his age, he is constantly instructing players around him about their positioning. I think he's very much future captain material.
Spot on , a really good signing and delighted for him.
Lowton, Westwood, Vlaar and benteke all seem quality signings, Bennett will come good too I think , not convinced totally by Holman but he puts the effort in , the only one I've been disappointed with is kea.
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I think he has all the right attributes to be top notch central midfielder. I would like him keep his head down listen to Sid occasionly and keep working hard.
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Had my doubts but he is starting to gain confidence. Think he is going to be a big player for us ........
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By the end of this season he could well be a key player for us. In fact, this ties in to a wider point about Paul Lambert's tenure.
The way MON left meant Houllier wasn't able to clear the place out and ended up facing resistance and under-performances from MON's lot. Then TSM was brought in at a time when, far from being able to clear out the dead-wood, he had to work with them as our best players were sold. His signings weren't great and it was very hard to feel in any way enthusiastic about a bunch of journey man who were overpaid and didn't have the ability they seemed to think they had.
This year has been our first proper clear-out in ages! Lambert got rid of many players who had been stinking the place out and has unearthed some hungry, up-and-coming prospects to replace them. Whereas last season it felt like our team were ambling through games they weren't enjoying, this season it feels like we have a bunch of ambitious youngsters who want to make it in the game. I think we are finally moving forward with a plan that could take us back to the right end of the table.
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If you'd told me two months ago that he was going to look head and shoulders better than El Ahmadi I would've laughed in your face.
I think this proves how good Lambert is with money. MON would've got someone from the Premier League with the same amount of ability, but with twice the ego and for about seven times as much money.
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By the end of this season he could well be a key player for us. In fact, this ties in to a wider point about Paul Lambert's tenure.
The way MON left meant Houllier wasn't able to clear the place out and ended up facing resistance and under-performances from MON's lot. Then TSM was brought in at a time when, far from being able to clear out the dead-wood, he had to work with them as our best players were sold. His signings weren't great and it was very hard to feel in any way enthusiastic about a bunch of journey man who were overpaid and didn't have the ability they seemed to think they had.
This year has been our first proper clear-out in ages! Lambert got rid of many players who had been stinking the place out and has unearthed some hungry, up-and-coming prospects to replace them. Whereas last season it felt like our team were ambling through games they weren't enjoying, this season it feels like we have a bunch of ambitious youngsters who want to make it in the game. I think we are finally moving forward with a plan that could take us back to the right end of the table.
He did? Like who exactly?
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By the end of this season he could well be a key player for us. In fact, this ties in to a wider point about Paul Lambert's tenure.
The way MON left meant Houllier wasn't able to clear the place out and ended up facing resistance and under-performances from MON's lot. Then TSM was brought in at a time when, far from being able to clear out the dead-wood, he had to work with them as our best players were sold. His signings weren't great and it was very hard to feel in any way enthusiastic about a bunch of journey man who were overpaid and didn't have the ability they seemed to think they had.
This year has been our first proper clear-out in ages! Lambert got rid of many players who had been stinking the place out and has unearthed some hungry, up-and-coming prospects to replace them. Whereas last season it felt like our team were ambling through games they weren't enjoying, this season it feels like we have a bunch of ambitious youngsters who want to make it in the game. I think we are finally moving forward with a plan that could take us back to the right end of the table.
Agree with all you say there
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By the end of this season he could well be a key player for us. In fact, this ties in to a wider point about Paul Lambert's tenure.
The way MON left meant Houllier wasn't able to clear the place out and ended up facing resistance and under-performances from MON's lot. Then TSM was brought in at a time when, far from being able to clear out the dead-wood, he had to work with them as our best players were sold. His signings weren't great and it was very hard to feel in any way enthusiastic about a bunch of journey man who were overpaid and didn't have the ability they seemed to think they had.
This year has been our first proper clear-out in ages! Lambert got rid of many players who had been stinking the place out and has unearthed some hungry, up-and-coming prospects to replace them. Whereas last season it felt like our team were ambling through games they weren't enjoying, this season it feels like we have a bunch of ambitious youngsters who want to make it in the game. I think we are finally moving forward with a plan that could take us back to the right end of the table.
He did? Like who exactly?
Warnock & Hutton for two
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By the end of this season he could well be a key player for us. In fact, this ties in to a wider point about Paul Lambert's tenure.
The way MON left meant Houllier wasn't able to clear the place out and ended up facing resistance and under-performances from MON's lot. Then TSM was brought in at a time when, far from being able to clear out the dead-wood, he had to work with them as our best players were sold. His signings weren't great and it was very hard to feel in any way enthusiastic about a bunch of journey man who were overpaid and didn't have the ability they seemed to think they had.
This year has been our first proper clear-out in ages! Lambert got rid of many players who had been stinking the place out and has unearthed some hungry, up-and-coming prospects to replace them. Whereas last season it felt like our team were ambling through games they weren't enjoying, this season it feels like we have a bunch of ambitious youngsters who want to make it in the game. I think we are finally moving forward with a plan that could take us back to the right end of the table.
He did? Like who exactly?
Warnock & Hutton for two
And Collins.
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He's showing now why a Crewe fan I know was raving about him.
Crucially he said as long as we gave it a bit of time, he'd show his passing quality in the prem and he's doing that now.
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He reminds me very much of Scott Parker. Very comfortable on the ball, always aware of what's going on around him, always looking to get involved and keeps things fluid whilst making it look very easy.
If he's the standard of lower league player Lambert buys, he'll have no complaints from me.
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I think he's a better passer than Parker.
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Thank God for that, the way things have been when I saw the title of this thread I thought it was going to be some tabloid with photos of him sniffing coke off a hooker down the Belfry.
This kid impresses me everytime he plays, a couple of the passes he made yesterday to set up holman and benteke in the first half were top drawer and great the media haven't noticed. My only criticism is that he plays too deep but that's more about the formation we play, would like to see what he could do further forward. Keep it to yourselves we could have another Gareth Barry on our hands but to people at work who follow other teams keep saying Westwood isn't up to it, championship material. A bit like Benteke as soon as people start to notice him we've had it.
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I think he's a better passer than Parker.
I agree. I liked the comparison to Barry, almost like a love child of Fatboy and Carrick. Terrific footballer from the look of him though. When they look back and say where did it start to turn for Villa, the signings of Westwood, Lowton, Vlaar, Benteke and Guzan may be looked at as fondly as the summer that bought in Savo, Draper and Southgate.
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with the exception of Draper
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I think he is very similar player to Carrick, both play the simple pass, but I think Westwood has great potential. More energetic than Carrick and seems a leader, certainly captain material. I really think Lambert has got a gem here
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with the exception of Draper
He was superb for a while
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he wasnt that impressive yesterday to be honest - barry bannon got motm and even he wasnt that good
much of a muchness in midfield we have at the minute and nobody stands out
we have the closing down, the hunting in packs, fighting for every ball etc etc but we dont have ANYBODY that can pass
this thread actually depresses me (no offence to the original poster)
some of the midfielders we have had (in the not too distant past) and we are trying to big up a league 1 midfielder who has had a couple of non-descript appearances
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this thread actually depresses me
Slightly redundant statement there - what doesn't?
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this thread actually depresses me
Slightly redundant statement there - what doesn't?
yip thats what everyone of my posts states
::)
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When we
he wasnt that impressive yesterday to be honest - barry bannon got motm and even he wasnt that good
much of a muchness in midfield we have at the minute and nobody stands out
we have the closing down, the hunting in packs, fighting for every ball etc etc but we dont have ANYBODY that can pass
this thread actually depresses me (no offence to the original poster)
some of the midfielders we have had (in the not too distant past) and we are trying to big up a league 1 midfielder who has had a couple of non-descript appearances
You're depressed when we take positives from a match we lost. You're depressed when we praise a promising young player. You moan when we don't make enough noise. On behalf of all the Aston Villa supporters I speak for, may I just take this opportunity to apologise for us not being good enough to have you in our ranks.
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he wasnt that impressive yesterday to be honest - barry bannon got motm and even he wasnt that good
much of a muchness in midfield we have at the minute and nobody stands out
we have the closing down, the hunting in packs, fighting for every ball etc etc but we dont have ANYBODY that can pass
this thread actually depresses me (no offence to the original poster)
some of the midfielders we have had (in the not too distant past) and we are trying to big up a league 1 midfielder who has had a couple of non-descript appearances
You obviously have a different opinion of a midfielders performance than me with your comments
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When we he wasnt that impressive yesterday to be honest - barry bannon got motm and even he wasnt that good
much of a muchness in midfield we have at the minute and nobody stands out
we have the closing down, the hunting in packs, fighting for every ball etc etc but we dont have ANYBODY that can pass
this thread actually depresses me (no offence to the original poster)
some of the midfielders we have had (in the not too distant past) and we are trying to big up a league 1 midfielder who has had a couple of non-descript appearances
You're depressed when we take positives from a match we lost. You're depressed when we praise a promising young player. You moan when we don't make enough noise. On behalf of all the Aston Villa supporters I speak for, may I just take this opportunity to apologise for us not being good enough to have you in our ranks.
really?
okay
everything is fantastic and we are top of the league
i think everybody that wears claret and blue is amazing
and Westwood is reminding me of Xavi and Iniesta rolled into one
okay?
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When we he wasnt that impressive yesterday to be honest - barry bannon got motm and even he wasnt that good
much of a muchness in midfield we have at the minute and nobody stands out
we have the closing down, the hunting in packs, fighting for every ball etc etc but we dont have ANYBODY that can pass
this thread actually depresses me (no offence to the original poster)
some of the midfielders we have had (in the not too distant past) and we are trying to big up a league 1 midfielder who has had a couple of non-descript appearances
You're depressed when we take positives from a match we lost. You're depressed when we praise a promising young player. You moan when we don't make enough noise. On behalf of all the Aston Villa supporters I speak for, may I just take this opportunity to apologise for us not being good enough to have you in our ranks.
really?
okay
everything is fantastic and we are top of the league
i think everybody that wears claret and blue is amazing
and Westwood is reminding me of Xavi and Iniesta rolled into one
okay?
(once i have stated i was depressed - but apparently every post i have said it ffs)
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Honestly, nornironvilla, all people are saying is that maybe you should calm down a little bit.
A blind man on a galloping horse could spot that we're not very good this season, it's not like you're fighting against a tide of public opinion trying to convince us of it.
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That sort of reply wasn't funny the first time, and this is far from the first time.
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That sort of reply wasn't funny the first time, and this is far from the first time.
Honestly, nornironvilla, all people are saying is that maybe you should calm down a little bit.
A blind man on a galloping horse could spot that we're not very good this season, it's not like you're fighting against a tide of public opinion trying to convince us of it.
That sort of reply wasn't funny the first time, and this is far from the first time.
really?
theres me thinking this place was for opinions and debate
well anyway
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When we he wasnt that impressive yesterday to be honest - barry bannon got motm and even he wasnt that good
much of a muchness in midfield we have at the minute and nobody stands out
we have the closing down, the hunting in packs, fighting for every ball etc etc but we dont have ANYBODY that can pass
this thread actually depresses me (no offence to the original poster)
some of the midfielders we have had (in the not too distant past) and we are trying to big up a league 1 midfielder who has had a couple of non-descript appearances
You're depressed when we take positives from a match we lost. You're depressed when we praise a promising young player. You moan when we don't make enough noise. On behalf of all the Aston Villa supporters I speak for, may I just take this opportunity to apologise for us not being good enough to have you in our ranks.
really?
okay
everything is fantastic and we are top of the league
i think everybody that wears claret and blue is amazing
and Westwood is reminding me of Xavi and Iniesta rolled into one
okay?
Let's give the Kid some credit....remembering that Kid is the right word......he has played his way in to the side, showed incredible maturity yesterday,passed accurately - forwards not sideways, tackled hard and from what I saw bossed the midfield whilst competing against world class players
What more can we ask ??
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with the exception of Draper
Draper was fantastic in the 95/96 season.
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That sort of reply wasn't funny the first time, and this is far from the first time.
Honestly, nornironvilla, all people are saying is that maybe you should calm down a little bit.
A blind man on a galloping horse could spot that we're not very good this season, it's not like you're fighting against a tide of public opinion trying to convince us of it.
That sort of reply wasn't funny the first time, and this is far from the first time.
really?
theres me thinking this place was for opinions and debate
well anyway
Yes, and that's mine. Sorry to disappoint you again.
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That sort of reply wasn't funny the first time, and this is far from the first time.
Honestly, nornironvilla, all people are saying is that maybe you should calm down a little bit.
A blind man on a galloping horse could spot that we're not very good this season, it's not like you're fighting against a tide of public opinion trying to convince us of it.
That sort of reply wasn't funny the first time, and this is far from the first time.
really?
theres me thinking this place was for opinions and debate
well anyway
Yes, and that's mine. Sorry to disappoint you again.
no i was depressed apparently not dissapointed
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Regardless Westwood has been excellent since he started getting in the first team, and he's going to be a quality player for us.
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Hopefully Lambert will be given some funds for January as have been impressed with the majority of his signings so far
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he has promise. Whether he has enough now to dig us out of trouble is another matter.
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By the end of this season he could well be a key player for us. In fact, this ties in to a wider point about Paul Lambert's tenure.
The way MON left meant Houllier wasn't able to clear the place out and ended up facing resistance and under-performances from MON's lot. Then TSM was brought in at a time when, far from being able to clear out the dead-wood, he had to work with them as our best players were sold. His signings weren't great and it was very hard to feel in any way enthusiastic about a bunch of journey man who were overpaid and didn't have the ability they seemed to think they had.
This year has been our first proper clear-out in ages! Lambert got rid of many players who had been stinking the place out and has unearthed some hungry, up-and-coming prospects to replace them. Whereas last season it felt like our team were ambling through games they weren't enjoying, this season it feels like we have a bunch of ambitious youngsters who want to make it in the game. I think we are finally moving forward with a plan that could take us back to the right end of the table.
He did? Like who exactly?
Warnock & Hutton for two
And Collins for three, and in some respects Dunne for four.
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he has promise. Whether he has enough now to dig us out of trouble is another matter.
Well not on his own, but if players get up to the level that Benteke, Lowton and Westwood have been showing and beyond we'll be ok. We need a combative midfielder alongside him though.
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Westy is our new Barry. Said it elsewhere, will repeat it here. His passing is fantastic and he's calm and composed. Knows when to spread the play and knows when to keep it simple. Very impressed with him.
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The thing that has impressed me is how easily he's made the step up from the fourth to the first division and how he seems to always pick the right option. If he continues to show the right attitude then he's got every chance of being a top class player.
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Do not think we should be writing off KEA as an inportant MF he had a bad game yesterday by his standards but has been very good compared to say Reo C. He can break up play and can pass with a high success rate. Westwood is steadly becoming a very good player and will get better and better IMO. I am sure Lamberts scouts will have a few players identified for Jan ready to improve on what we have .....
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Do not think we should be writing off KEA as an inportant MF he had a bad game yesterday by his standards but has been very good compared to say Reo C. He can break up play and can pass with a high success rate. Westwood is steadly becoming a very good player and will get better and better IMO. I am sure Lamberts scouts will have a few players identified for Jan ready to improve on what we have .....
I agree with all of that.
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Not writing KEA off, but he needs to strengthen up a lot. He gets knocked off the ball too easily.
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Do not think we should be writing off KEA as an inportant MF he had a bad game yesterday by his standards but has been very good compared to say Reo C. He can break up play and can pass with a high success rate. Westwood is steadly becoming a very good player and will get better and better IMO. I am sure Lamberts scouts will have a few players identified for Jan ready to improve on what we have .....
comparing our midfielders to Reo C?
why?
why not compare to milner or barry?
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I think KEA will come good, dont think that role suited him yesterday and his pathetic dive didnt help matters
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he wasnt that impressive yesterday to be honest - barry bannon got motm and even he wasnt that good
much of a muchness in midfield we have at the minute and nobody stands out
we have the closing down, the hunting in packs, fighting for every ball etc etc but we dont have ANYBODY that can pass
this thread actually depresses me (no offence to the original poster)
some of the midfielders we have had (in the not too distant past) and we are trying to big up a league 1 midfielder who has had a couple of non-descript appearances
I was looking at this site and then I saw your post and heaven knows I'm miserable now.
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Miner and Barry have been in the prem for a long time. KEA has come from a different football culture and needs time to adapt. I think he could be as good as both of them given time ....
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he wasnt that impressive yesterday to be honest - barry bannon got motm and even he wasnt that good
much of a muchness in midfield we have at the minute and nobody stands out
we have the closing down, the hunting in packs, fighting for every ball etc etc but we dont have ANYBODY that can pass
this thread actually depresses me (no offence to the original poster)
some of the midfielders we have had (in the not too distant past) and we are trying to big up a league 1 midfielder who has had a couple of non-descript appearances
I was looking at this site and then I saw your post and heaven knows I'm miserable now.
Morrissey?
look i stated an opinion and everyone is on me saying im a miserable barsteward
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You say nobody who can pass. Westwood had 90% passing accuracy yesterday, and that was including some tricky through balls and switch passes. So he can absolutely certainly pass.
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You say nobody who can pass. Westwood had 90% passing accuracy yesterday, and that was including some tricky through balls and switch passes. So he can absolutely certainly pass.
really? thats it?
Ray Wilkins would have had a 90% pass rate in every game he played
his nickname?
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90% pass accuracy is nothing to be sniffed at when you're trying to make tough passes and against a couple of top class midfielders.
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with the exception of Draper
Draper was fantastic in the 95/96 season.
~Indeed he was - none more so in The Win Nothing With Kids game when Keane couldn't get near him. Diminished in effectivenss once Curcic was signed. Classic balance in midfield of Townsend, Taylor and Draper at the time.
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he wasnt that impressive yesterday to be honest - barry bannon got motm and even he wasnt that good
much of a muchness in midfield we have at the minute and nobody stands out
we have the closing down, the hunting in packs, fighting for every ball etc etc but we dont have ANYBODY that can pass
this thread actually depresses me (no offence to the original poster)
some of the midfielders we have had (in the not too distant past) and we are trying to big up a league 1 midfielder who has had a couple of non-descript appearances
I was looking at this site and then I saw your post and heaven knows I'm miserable now.
Morrissey?
look i stated an opinion and everyone is on me saying im a miserable barsteward
This is a debate forum as you have already acknowledged. But banter is also a part of debating in every day life. Just accept other peoples comments and treat it with a bit of humour :-))
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One of the things we can enjoy is watching the performances and improvement in some of these young players and his performance yesterday was excellent.
I remain unconvinced by KEA though.
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he wasnt that impressive yesterday to be honest - barry bannon got motm and even he wasnt that good
much of a muchness in midfield we have at the minute and nobody stands out
we have the closing down, the hunting in packs, fighting for every ball etc etc but we dont have ANYBODY that can pass
this thread actually depresses me (no offence to the original poster)
some of the midfielders we have had (in the not too distant past) and we are trying to big up a league 1 midfielder who has had a couple of non-descript appearances
I was looking at this site and then I saw your post and heaven knows I'm miserable now.
Morrissey?
look i stated an opinion and everyone is on me saying im a miserable barsteward
Why ever could that be I wonder?
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You say nobody who can pass. Westwood had 90% passing accuracy yesterday, and that was including some tricky through balls and switch passes. So he can absolutely certainly pass.
really? thats it?
Ray Wilkins would have had a 90% pass rate in every game he played
his nickname?
Here I am, brain the size of a planet, Parking Cars.
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look the guy has played 4 games and 2 sub appearances and we have a thread telling us he is the part
we had threads in the summer about holman and KEA
just relax
this season is going to be great for me because im a miserable git
but the next few years will hopefully get us going in the right direction again
UTV
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nornironvillain: Ray Wilkins' nickname is Butch.
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nornironvillain: Ray Wilkins' nickname is Butch.
and the crab
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Westwood will be a class act in due course. I think he made some good passes yesterday - and against manUre - and his positioning and general game-management has been good.
I'd like to see Herd given a run - when fit - alongside him and BB to see how it pans out.
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Do not think we should be writing off KEA as an inportant MF he had a bad game yesterday by his standards but has been very good compared to say Reo C. He can break up play and can pass with a high success rate. Westwood is steadly becoming a very good player and will get better and better IMO. I am sure Lamberts scouts will have a few players identified for Jan ready to improve on what we have .....
comparing our midfielders to Reo C?
why?
why not compare to milner or barry?
Because he plays a similar role and some suggested in the summer we should sign him on a free.
Would be my guess.
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Commentators over here made a big thing of how one of the reasons we looked fairly comfortable defensively was that Westwood had done such a good job marking Corzola out of the game - pre match they'd been going on about how Corzola makes Arsenal tick.
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I think Herd's a useful squad player, but we need better than him to be a regular starter.
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You say nobody who can pass. Westwood had 90% passing accuracy yesterday, and that was including some tricky through balls and switch passes. So he can absolutely certainly pass.
really? thats it?
Ray Wilkins would have had a 90% pass rate in every game he played
his nickname?
But surely you see the point here. You say nobody can pass, yet Westwood had 91% pass completion, and Bannan over 80%, with Bannan hitting 7 out of 7 successful long forward balls to a team mate. Your assertion is not opinion, it is a statement of disproved fact.
Anyhow, got any worms?
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Commentators over here made a big thing of how one of the reasons we looked fairly comfortable defensively was that Westwood had done such a good job marking Corzola out of the game - pre match they'd been going on about how Corzola makes Arsenal tick.
That really proves Westwood is having an impact already. Corzola is a world class player and Westwood was all over him. Got to admire Lamberts knowledge and faith in lower division players ......
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Commentators over here made a big thing of how one of the reasons we looked fairly comfortable defensively was that Westwood had done such a good job marking Corzola out of the game - pre match they'd been going on about how Corzola makes Arsenal tick.
That really proves Westwood is having an impact already. Corzola is a world class player and Westwood was all over him. Got to admire Lamberts knowledge and faith in lower division players ......
Yes he's a great bit of scouting, as I see he's a brilliantly mature player. Oddly eventhough he isn't experienced, he brings an air of experience to our midfield through his maturity and quality if that makes sense.
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You say nobody who can pass. Westwood had 90% passing accuracy yesterday, and that was including some tricky through balls and switch passes. So he can absolutely certainly pass.
really? thats it?
Ray Wilkins would have had a 90% pass rate in every game he played
his nickname?
But surely you see the point here. You say nobody can pass, yet Westwood had 91% pass completion, and Bannan over 80%, with Bannan hitting 7 out of 7 successful long forward balls to a team mate. Your assertion is not opinion, it is a statement of disproved fact.
Anyhow, got any worms?
calm down
im not fishing - if i was i could ask a question about a mod on here and his mate that started a thread about me
the guy has played 4 games....and 2 subs appearances
lets not get carried away...he looks ok ( Barry bannon got motm v Arsenal and he wasnt that good)
we had people on here creaming their pants about you tube videos and a couple of friendlies for Holman and KEA
lets just relax and not get carried away is all i am saying
no worms, no fishing rods, just an opinion
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Westwood got man of the match in the papers I read this morning. Also he's made four starts and looked very assured.
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Commentators over here made a big thing of how one of the reasons we looked fairly comfortable defensively was that Westwood had done such a good job marking Corzola out of the game - pre match they'd been going on about how Corzola makes Arsenal tick.
That really proves Westwood is having an impact already. Corzola is a world class player and Westwood was all over him. Got to admire Lamberts knowledge and faith in lower division players ......
Yes he's a great bit of scouting, as I see he's a brilliantly mature player. Oddly eventhough he isn't experienced, he brings an air of experience to our midfield through his maturity and quality if that makes sense.
One of the pundits was John Jensen who was pretty complimentary about the way we'd gone about the game - he has a habit of coming out with weird analogies - yesterdays was Westwood had spent so long, so close to Corzola, that Corzola could probably guess which toothpaste he used !!
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Commentators over here made a big thing of how one of the reasons we looked fairly comfortable defensively was that Westwood had done such a good job marking Corzola out of the game - pre match they'd been going on about how Corzola makes Arsenal tick.
That really proves Westwood is having an impact already. Corzola is a world class player and Westwood was all over him. Got to admire Lamberts knowledge and faith in lower division players ......
Yes he's a great bit of scouting, as I see he's a brilliantly mature player. Oddly eventhough he isn't experienced, he brings an air of experience to our midfield through his maturity and quality if that makes sense.
One of the pundits was John Jensen who was pretty complimentary about the way we'd gone about the game - he has a habit of coming out with weird analogies - yesterdays was Westwood had spent so long, so close to Corzola, that Corzola could probably guess which toothpaste he used !!
Which in a way does Westwood a disservice, because he was excellent with the ball as well. He didn't just nullify Cazorla, he got us going forward as well.
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Westwood got man of the match in the papers I read this morning. Also he's made four starts and looked very assured.
you were at the match last night?
who was the motm?
it was announced...over the tannoy thing...everybody gave a big cheer
the guy has played 4 games....and 2 subs appearances
"also he's made 4 starts" yip just above there... i know how many games the guy has played and how many times he has come on
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I know Bannan got the stadium man of the match, what I said was in several papers Westwood got man of the match. It's all about differing opinions, but Westwood was excellent.
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I know Bannan got the stadium man of the match, what I said was in several papers Westwood got man of the match. It's all about differing opinions, but Westwood was excellent.
what you said was "Westwood got man of the match in the papers I read this morning. Also he's made four starts and looked very assured"
he may very well have done....the fact remains lets not cream the pants on 4 starts and 2 sub appearances...jesus wept this place was bouncing in August about how good holman and KEA were
relax
we are shite....we are in the bottom 3 again because Southampton won today
lets not build this guy up after 6 appearances
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We are not doing well, I think that's plainly obvious to see. The point was that against Arsenal and Man Utd Westwood looked excellent, and he's not going to face many stiffer challenges in this league. So if he's not out of his depth against them it's reasonable to assume he can perform against poorer sides.
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I know Bannan got the stadium man of the match, what I said was in several papers Westwood got man of the match. It's all about differing opinions, but Westwood was excellent.
what you said was "Westwood got man of the match in the papers I read this morning. Also he's made four starts and looked very assured"
he may very well have done....the fact remains lets not cream the pants on 4 starts and 2 sub appearances...jesus wept this place was bouncing in August about how good holman and KEA were
relax
we are shite....we are in the bottom 3 again because Southampton won today
lets not build this guy up after 6 appearances
I think we are looking for positives, of which the kids that hold their own and show real promise provide though. If Westwood was 28 and bought for 10 million to play that role, I would have still said he was excellent last night.
Re the thing about a mod and starting a thread about you - I have not see it, so kindly point me in the direction.
The worm comment was nothing to do with fishing, more your clearly bleak outlook.
And finally Bannan, on the statistics of the game, for both side, he aggregated the highest score for the evening. I know stats are not everything, but he clearly had a very good game last night, and our best moments came following balls from either him or Westwood. Celebrate the small steps, there will be plenty to moan and be upset about between now and may.
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I know Bannan got the stadium man of the match, what I said was in several papers Westwood got man of the match. It's all about differing opinions, but Westwood was excellent.
what you said was "Westwood got man of the match in the papers I read this morning. Also he's made four starts and looked very assured"
he may very well have done....the fact remains lets not cream the pants on 4 starts and 2 sub appearances...jesus wept this place was bouncing in August about how good holman and KEA were
relax
we are shite....we are in the bottom 3 again because Southampton won today
lets not build this guy up after 6 appearances
Your so funny.Are are Jim Davidson?
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Nornironvillain: how to ruin what could have been a decent thread.
Again. Thanks.
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Northern Ireland - where every silver lining has a dark cloud.
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nornironvillain: Ray Wilkins' nickname is Butch.
and the crab
If Westwood was continually playing meaningless short sideways passes when under no particular pressure you would have a point.
Westwood was playing meaningful passes against a team that is very good at pressuring the guy on the ball and denying him options.
90%+ success was pretty good by any standard.
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Nornironvillain, were you born a misery-arse or have you just worked hard at it? :)
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George Boateng was the crab.
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I like the way Ashley play's he can go on to be a top player we just need to be patient with him.
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Anyone remember the last player we signed from fourth division Crewe and how that went?
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It is early days but his last two home games have been very encouraging. My MOM on Saturday. He could be key for us for this season.
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Anyone remember the last player we signed from fourth division Crewe and how that went?
We certainly need an outcome like that!
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Wasn't Ray Wilkins an England regular? If Ashley Westwood got to that standard, whatever nickname he earned, it would hardly be a disaster would it?
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Wasn't Ray Wilkins an England regular? If Ashley Westwood got to that standard, whatever nickname he earned, it would hardly be a disaster would it?
about 90 caps or something.
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And played for Man U and ac milan. British fans have always under appreciated the values of a continuity player in midfield.
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Anyone remember the last player we signed from fourth division Crewe and how that went?
So, Crystal Palace should be buying players from Dulwich Hamlet, just because Ian Wright was a sensation?
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And played for Man U and ac milan. British fans have always under appreciated the values of a continuity player in midfield.
Agreed. They're usually not appreciated until they're out of the team for whatever reason.
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Yes, because that's exactly what he's saying.
Can I just make PL aware that I went to Kingshurst Comprehensive, and am therefore the next Gary Shaw?
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I like him. He goes about thinks assuredly and quietly. He might slip under the radar some games even if he's actually doing what he's there for and more. Don't think you'll see any game saving tackles or too many eye of the needle assists or 30 yard screamers but a bit like Carrick he does his job very well and that's to keep the ball. He played a couple of great passes the other night too. He warrants his place at the moment.
Likewise, credit to Bannan the other night. I thought he was excellent and he and Westy work well together. I think adding in Holman as the third in a mid 3 looked very good. A nice balance.
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Anyone remember the last player we signed from fourth division Crewe and how that went?
So, Crystal Palace should be buying players from Dulwich Hamlet, just because Ian Wright was a sensation?
Yes, that's exactly what I was saying, you old super-sleuth you.
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Westwood had the highest pass completion on Saturday, with 91%. He did far more than mark the opposition's playmaker out of the game.
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I watched the game again last night and especially paid attention to Westwood's performance. Firstly, the entire team looked like so confident and slick. You could have been mistaken for thinking we were Arsenal at times. We just still miss the correct killer pass or cross. As for Westwood he is very composed and was completely unfazed by the opposition. Did all of the simple things really well and has great awareness of what is happening around him. As with all of our midfield players, they worked their collective bollocks off, but they all need to be better in the final third either providing or getting into the box into goalscoring positions. Holman was a massive step up in that regard when he came on but up until that point nobody made any telling late runs. Maybe that happens when you are playing three up front.
Last season we played a bit like this and were really pleased at the performance at home versus Arsenal despite losing. We thought that it would be a platform from which to build. That never happened. In a similar way now, if we play like that tomorrow night we should hammer Reading and hopefully get our season going again.
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Anyone remember the last player we signed from fourth division Crewe and how that went?
So, Crystal Palace should be buying players from Dulwich Hamlet, just because Ian Wright was a sensation?
Yes, that's exactly what I was saying, you old super-sleuth you.
I just don't see the relevance of David Platt. He obviously played for the same teams and also played in midfield.
Does it really make Westwood any more likely to be a success?
For what its worth, I thought he was outstanding on Saturday
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I think you've taken Lee B's light hearted comment far too seriously.
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Perhaps if other people mention it, I have. I've just seen it written in so many places. I wasn't trying to needle
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I really like him. He's the kind of player every team that wants to play football needs, as is Bannan. Hard work off the ball and a good eye for a pass on it. Positions himself well defensively without needing to dive in with big 50/50 tackles.
We just need to balance them out with an all-action dynamo (like Holman or KEA but a bit more quality on the ball).
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I watched the game again last night and especially paid attention to Westwood's performance. Firstly, the entire team looked like so confident and slick ... if we play like that tomorrow night we should hammer Reading and hopefully get our season going again.
Wow, some prediction.
I doubt we'll hammer Reading: their confidence is up and they can score goals against hesitant defences. I think we may well win it bbut it could be squeaky bums all around, since I think we'll need to score 2 or 3 goals against their admittedly weak defence.
But back to the topic, as I said above I do rate Westwood for his apparent calm and good decision-making. He complements the other youngsters around him, particularly BB (Lambert appears to have brought out some maturity in bananaman).
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Perhaps if other people mention it, I have. I've just seen it written in so many places. I wasn't trying to needle
Fair enough pal.
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Perhaps if other people mention it, I have. I've just seen it written in so many places. I wasn't trying to needle
No probs, I was just making the point that sometimes unheralded players from lower league clubs can turn out to be outstanding players, despite what the conventional wisdom of premier league punditry may say.
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Yes, because that's exactly what he's saying.
Can I just make PL aware that I went to Kingshurst Comprehensive, and am therefore the next Gary Shaw?
I thought you were?!
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Holman was a massive step up in that regard when he came on but up until that point nobody made any telling late runs. Maybe that happens when you are playing three up front.
It was significant that Holman was second in the "most runs past an opponent" (or whatever they call it) category for the match. And how long was he on the pitch? At the moment we do not have anyone who seems to want to take opponents on and go past them, we try to pass round them but if this is not done at speed the opponent has time to re-position himself, whereas if you run at and past him he is out of position.
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Holman was a massive step up in that regard when he came on but up until that point nobody made any telling late runs. Maybe that happens when you are playing three up front.
It was significant that Holman was second in the "most runs past an opponent" (or whatever they call it) category for the match. And how long was he on the pitch? At the moment we do not have anyone who seems to want to take opponents on and go past them, we try to pass round them but if this is not done at speed the opponent has time to re-position himself, whereas if you run at and past him he is out of position.
But if he tackles you then you're out of position. Which is stating the bleedin' obvious but the point is that you generally only do it in the final third so that rules out three quarters of the team from being likely to feature much on that stat and also that he had fresh legs against tiring opponents. That sounds like I'm running him down when I'm not as I think he's a good player and did well on Saturday but more a comment on the way these things can be misleading.
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As noted elsewhere I'm a big fan of Westwood's. When we bought him didn't someone on the Crewe boards suggest he'd be a future England captain?
NIV, over the years Dave W and I have disagreed on a lot whether it's politics or who's the best team in Glasgow. Having said that I've agreed with every post and article of his this season. You're entitled to be miserable if you wish but I think Dave W is right this time.
On a personal note I'm an ex-pat in the Caribbean and work with a lot of fans of other clubs. I've gotten no stick despite our position and everyone reckons we've got a good one in Lambert. I share that opinion and think there's a bright future at B6 despite our current predicament.
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Time to unearth this thread I think. What impressed me a lot about the way Westwood goes about the game is how he still has a touch of the League Twos about him: he doesn't let his head drop, he doesn't expect anything from the referee, and he's willing to fight every step of the way for the right to play. He's also ridiculously good at reading the game - the way he would predict where the ball would go about two seconds before it did was Nesta-like.
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He's looking good, now we need a quality midfielder in January to help him out.
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He's looking good, now we need a quality midfielder in January to help him out.
Indeed, he's going to be a top player and needs the support around him.
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If only Gary Gardner was fit. Whilst they're both youngsters I'm more than mildly excited at the thought of the pair of them in centre mid!
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He has been our most consistently good player for over five games now. Love watching him play
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Gardner is the type of player we need in midfield, but not sure he's good enough / ready.
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Gardner is the type of player we need in midfield, but not sure he's good enough / ready.
Or fit
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Craig Gardner, maybe.
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A real pisser that injury Gardner had, he'd have surely had a good run under Lambert.
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Is Daniel Johnson back at the club ? If so,did anyone know how he got on at Yeovil?
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I think he's back. He only signed a month loan there.
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Yeovil let him come back early and I think he got taken off before half time in his last game! I thought he looked a good player - better than Gardner on many occasions
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I read Johnson only played about 34 minutes at Yeovil before he got injured and returned to us.
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It sounded like he had a good pre season with us,so im slightly suprised he hasn't been gradually introduced into the squad as of yet.
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Is he badly injured then?
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Looks like a bad ankle injury , hopefully weeks rather than months but we may know more today.
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FFS.
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I'd really like some good news and find out it's not as bad as we fear.
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I'm still not convinced that Michu didn't know what he was doing. At best it was a very clumsy challenge from behind that deserved some form of punishment, that the feckers didn't even give us the ball back or allow time for us to get a sub on shows them up pretty badly.
I really hope it's not as bad as it looked at the time but I really wouldn't be suprised to hear it's some ligament damage and we won't see him again for 3-4 months. I said at the time it looked a nasty one and watching it again I think I down played it.
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Rumour on Twitter was that it's 3 months. Then again twitter rumours are hardly a valid source of information.
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I think they were assessing it today. I don't know where the 3 month stuff came from. That'd be a pisser to say the least! Hopefully just a few weeks
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Rumour on Twitter was that it's 3 months. Then again twitter rumours are hardly a valid source of information.
Depends who is tweeting it, innit
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Rumour on Twitter was that it's 3 months. Then again twitter rumours are hardly a valid source of information.
Depends who is tweeting it, innit
Well I've just been in contact with Rebecca his missus, and as yet there is no estimated time limit - should know more today after its been assessed.
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I think they were assessing it today. I don't know where the 3 month stuff came from. That'd be a pisser to say the least! Hopefully just a few weeks
If it's the injury I think it is from what happened then 3 months seems about right, wasn't enough to snap the ligaments in his ankle (which would be around a year out) but was enough to do a fair bit of damage to them. from the video it looks like his knee was almost on the ground whilst his foot was still planted, if it's less than 3 months he's a very lucky boy.
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I think they were assessing it today. I don't know where the 3 month stuff came from. That'd be a pisser to say the least! Hopefully just a few weeks
If it's the injury I think it is from what happened then 3 months seems about right, wasn't enough to snap the ligaments in his ankle (which would be around a year out) but was enough to do a fair bit of damage to them. from the video it looks like his knee was almost on the ground whilst his foot was still planted, if it's less than 3 months he's a very lucky boy.
I suffered a nasty accident in a fall at work 10 weeks ago which caused knee ligament damage and am still having physio - expecting to return next week , so I think if it is bad ligament damage then 3 months will be about right .
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I think they were assessing it today. I don't know where the 3 month stuff came from. That'd be a pisser to say the least! Hopefully just a few weeks
If it's the injury I think it is from what happened then 3 months seems about right, wasn't enough to snap the ligaments in his ankle (which would be around a year out) but was enough to do a fair bit of damage to them. from the video it looks like his knee was almost on the ground whilst his foot was still planted, if it's less than 3 months he's a very lucky boy.
I suffered a nasty accident in a fall at work 10 weeks ago which caused knee ligament damage and am still having physio - expecting to return next week , so I think if it is bad ligament damage then 3 months will be about right .
Send me your details, I'll give you a no win, no fee promise.
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I think they were assessing it today. I don't know where the 3 month stuff came from. That'd be a pisser to say the least! Hopefully just a few weeks
If it's the injury I think it is from what happened then 3 months seems about right, wasn't enough to snap the ligaments in his ankle (which would be around a year out) but was enough to do a fair bit of damage to them. from the video it looks like his knee was almost on the ground whilst his foot was still planted, if it's less than 3 months he's a very lucky boy.
I suffered a nasty accident in a fall at work 10 weeks ago which caused knee ligament damage and am still having physio - expecting to return next week , so I think if it is bad ligament damage then 3 months will be about right .
Yeah I've done a few similar things playing rugby and 3 months for full recovery is about right, I've had 1 much worse where I snapped my medial ligament which meant no sport for nearly 18months, he hasn't done anything that bad though or he'd have been on a stretcher and have gone straight to the hospital.
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I think they were assessing it today. I don't know where the 3 month stuff came from. That'd be a pisser to say the least! Hopefully just a few weeks
If it's the injury I think it is from what happened then 3 months seems about right, wasn't enough to snap the ligaments in his ankle (which would be around a year out) but was enough to do a fair bit of damage to them. from the video it looks like his knee was almost on the ground whilst his foot was still planted, if it's less than 3 months he's a very lucky boy.
I suffered a nasty accident in a fall at work 10 weeks ago which caused knee ligament damage and am still having physio - expecting to return next week , so I think if it is bad ligament damage then 3 months will be about right .
Send me your details, I'll give you a no win, no fee promise.
I think they were assessing it today. I don't know where the 3 month stuff came from. That'd be a pisser to say the least! Hopefully just a few weeks
If it's the injury I think it is from what happened then 3 months seems about right, wasn't enough to snap the ligaments in his ankle (which would be around a year out) but was enough to do a fair bit of damage to them. from the video it looks like his knee was almost on the ground whilst his foot was still planted, if it's less than 3 months he's a very lucky boy.
I suffered a nasty accident in a fall at work 10 weeks ago which caused knee ligament damage and am still having physio - expecting to return next week , so I think if it is bad ligament damage then 3 months will be about right .
Send me your details, I'll give you a no win, no fee promise.
I think they were assessing it today. I don't know where the 3 month stuff came from. That'd be a pisser to say the least! Hopefully just a few weeks
If it's the injury I think it is from what happened then 3 months seems about right, wasn't enough to snap the ligaments in his ankle (which would be around a year out) but was enough to do a fair bit of damage to them. from the video it looks like his knee was almost on the ground whilst his foot was still planted, if it's less than 3 months he's a very lucky boy.
I suffered a nasty accident in a fall at work 10 weeks ago which caused knee ligament damage and am still having physio - expecting to return next week , so I think if it is bad ligament damage then 3 months will be about right .
Send me your details, I'll give you a no win, no fee promise.
Thanks but already pursuing a claim via union .
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Rumour on Twitter was that it's 3 months. Then again twitter rumours are hardly a valid source of information.
Depends who is tweeting it, innit
Well I've just been in contact with Rachel his missus, and as yet there is no estimated time limit - should know more today after its been assessed.
I'll let you know when it has been confirmed by you know who, Eastie.
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Rumour on Twitter was that it's 3 months. Then again twitter rumours are hardly a valid source of information.
Depends who is tweeting it, innit
Well I've just been in contact with Rachel his missus, and as yet there is no estimated time limit - should know more today after its been assessed.
I'll let you know when it has been confirmed by you know who, Eastie.
You mean he who should not be named dc5, you naughty old rascal!
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Sounds like Westy might be ok, that'd be great.
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brilliant news, he's very lucky, but we've got to be very happy that he's ok.
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@ARWesty04: @Dazbedford1971 it's fine mate cheers pal a lot better than I first thought
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I think they were assessing it today. I don't know where the 3 month stuff came from. That'd be a pisser to say the least! Hopefully just a few weeks
If it's the injury I think it is from what happened then 3 months seems about right, wasn't enough to snap the ligaments in his ankle (which would be around a year out) but was enough to do a fair bit of damage to them. from the video it looks like his knee was almost on the ground whilst his foot was still planted, if it's less than 3 months he's a very lucky boy.
I suffered a nasty accident in a fall at work 10 weeks ago which caused knee ligament damage and am still having physio - expecting to return next week , so I think if it is bad ligament damage then 3 months will be about right .
Send me your details, I'll give you a no win, no fee promise.
Kill yourself.
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Suicidelawyers4u?
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I wonder where such an iconic firm of ambulance chasers as Suicidelawyers4u might practice from? Gas Street is the first place which springs to mind.
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I wonder where such an iconic firm of ambulance chasers as Suicidelawyers4u might practice from? Gas Street is the first place which springs to mind.
Hanging Lane in Northfield.
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I think they were assessing it today. I don't know where the 3 month stuff came from. That'd be a pisser to say the least! Hopefully just a few weeks
If it's the injury I think it is from what happened then 3 months seems about right, wasn't enough to snap the ligaments in his ankle (which would be around a year out) but was enough to do a fair bit of damage to them. from the video it looks like his knee was almost on the ground whilst his foot was still planted, if it's less than 3 months he's a very lucky boy.
I suffered a nasty accident in a fall at work 10 weeks ago which caused knee ligament damage and am still having physio - expecting to return next week , so I think if it is bad ligament damage then 3 months will be about right .
Send me your details, I'll give you a no win, no fee promise.
Kill yourself.
Only joking! Just sounded like one of those adverts.
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When are they gonna confirm the injury news? Sounds like its not too bad given his twitter update but thought we'd have something official by now
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When are they gonna confirm the injury news? Sounds like its not too bad given his twitter update but thought we'd have something official by now
Crap communication as usual from the OS.
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When are they gonna confirm the injury news? Sounds like its not too bad given his twitter update but thought we'd have something official by now
Crap communication as usual from the OS.
Not necessarily.
They could be waiting for the swelling to go down before they do a proper scan to assess the full damage. No point the OS saying "It's not as bad as first feared" only to have to say a day later that he's fucked his ligaments and will be out for the season is it?
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Lambert says he might be back for the saints game. Going on recent history that suggests he ought be out for another 6 weeks in practice!
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The OS is the worst website I've seen from an entity with the sort of turnover they have. We could easily have an injury update page that continually updates the status of injured players. Even in Plumbutt Cooper's example, such a page could easily tell us just that - that they're waiting for the swelling to settle down before doing an MRI.
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The OS is the worst website I've seen from an entity with the sort of turnover they have. We could easily have an injury update page that continually updates the status of injured players. Even in Plumbutt Cooper's example, such a page could easily tell us just that - that they're waiting for the swelling to settle down before doing an MRI.
To be fair, in a world where little bits of info can make the difference, I'm not sure we want to give our opponents minute-by-minute updates on how our injury problems are doing. I'd much rather keep them guessing.
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Spot on Ad@m. I bet a few Bradford fans got a nasty surprise when they suddenly discovered that we're not as depleted in the striking department at they first hoped.
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The OS is the worst website I've seen from an entity with the sort of turnover they have. We could easily have an injury update page that continually updates the status of injured players. Even in Plumbutt Cooper's example, such a page could easily tell us just that - that they're waiting for the swelling to settle down before doing an MRI.
Point me to the same injury update pages on all the other teams OS's.
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If information like this is freely available, I don't know why we can't show it. It doesn't need to be detailed and I'm not suggesting that we give opposition any help.
http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php?SKEY=62dd2f8983ca0924e64a2e460159470c
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If information like this is freely available, I don't know why we can't show it. It doesn't need to be detailed and I'm not suggesting that we give opposition any help.
http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php?SKEY=62dd2f8983ca0924e64a2e460159470c
Because it's all guesswork, maybe?
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Spot on Ad@m. I bet a few Bradford fans got a nasty surprise when they suddenly discovered that we're not as depleted in the striking department at they first hoped.
But PL said at his news conference on friday that Bent, Gabby and Zog had trained that morning and he would see how they felt before naming the team on Saturday, so that told the world they were in with a very good chance of playing. The only one who was a surprise to me was Baker as he hadn't been mentioned anywhere.
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Spot on Ad@m. I bet a few Bradford fans got a nasty surprise when they suddenly discovered that we're not as depleted in the striking department at they first hoped.
But PL said at his news conference on friday that Bent, Gabby and Zog had trained that morning and he would see how they felt before naming the team on Saturday, so that told the world they were in with a very good chance of playing. The only one who was a surprise to me was Baker as he hadn't been mentioned anywhere.
Bit late for them to do any training based on stifling those players then though.
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If information like this is freely available, I don't know why we can't show it. It doesn't need to be detailed and I'm not suggesting that we give opposition any help.
http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php?SKEY=62dd2f8983ca0924e64a2e460159470c
Well on the basis that just says we have injuries and they don't know when they're back I'd question the point of putting that 'info' on any website at all.
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We never got any prognosis on Vlaar at all, could be wrong but try and find some PL quotes after Arsenal/Reading estimating how long he'd be out for.
Fergie usually comes out and says how long players will be out for e.g. saying Rooney will be out for two weeks. That might be playing mind games with Liverpool but at least you know the rough extent of his injury.
With Vlaar, not a clue!
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Westwood is available again according to Tim Abraham:
@TimothyAbraham In terms of rest of the walking wounded.... Brett Holman is back after illness while Ashley Westwood has recovered from an ankle injury
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I think both should start tomorrow then. Try and get back as close to the side that played at Anfield as possible.
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We never got any prognosis on Vlaar at all, could be wrong but try and find some PL quotes after Arsenal/Reading estimating how long he'd be out for.
Fergie usually comes out and says how long players will be out for e.g. saying Rooney will be out for two weeks. That might be playing mind games with Liverpool but at least you know the rough extent of his injury.
With Vlaar, not a clue!
Vlaar is training and may play tomorrow, but more likely next week.
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There's a good article on the OS with an update on the injured players. It sounds like Vlaar might be on the bench tomorrow and Westwood isn't far off returning. They're even expecting Dunne to start training again next week.
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Thank fuck for that news
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I really don't understand why a public website should let opponents know about whether a player is fit or not. Surely that should be confidential. All of these teams plan their training around the opposition and its players. The last thing I would want as a club is let my opponent know for sure who is playing or who is fit. As much as possible I would want to keep that under wraps even if fans want to know.
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On the subject of Westwood, it says in the Mail today that he was cup tied anyway for Bradford - how is that the case, did he play for Crewe in the first round?
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He did yes.
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Does anyone else get why he is started now? It was all good and well earlier in the season when we actually kept the ball. But now we have gradually become a counter-attacking long-ball team, he offers absolutely nothing. Doesn't help the defence and doesn't offer any offensive threat.
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Does anyone else get why he is started now? It was all good and well earlier in the season when we actually kept the ball. But now we have gradually become a counter-attacking long-ball team, he offers absolutely nothing. Doesn't help the defence and doesn't offer any offensive threat.
I thought that he looked OK today
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Does anyone else get why he is started now? It was all good and well earlier in the season when we actually kept the ball. But now we have gradually become a counter-attacking long-ball team, he offers absolutely nothing. Doesn't help the defence and doesn't offer any offensive threat.
I thought that he looked OK today
How so?
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He put a great cross in for the goal, didn't notice too much else to be honest.
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He put a great cross in for the goal, didn't notice too much else to be honest.
With all the cock-ups from Villa players lately, not being noticed means that you've done OK
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I think he's a good player, but he needs a ball winning dirty bastard alongside him to protect him, just like Cowans did back in the day. If you put the Sid of then in today's team he wouldn't be half the player he was.
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I suspect that PL is hoping that Sylla and Delph can provide the steel that protects Westwood and gives him more passing licence.
Hope is a diffuclt word, though, given that Cilla is a total unknown and Westie is still learnig his EPL trade.
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I suspect that PL is hoping that Sylla and Delph can provide the steel that protects Westwood and gives him more passing licence.
Hope is a diffuclt word, though, given that Cilla is a total unknown and Westie is still learnig his EPL trade.
Delph westwood and sylla would be good together i think, worth a try next week , with nzog in the hole and benteke and weimann up front.
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Westwood is the 3rd player on my teamsheet behind Benteke and Guzan. Thought he was fine yesterday.
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Does anyone else get why he is started now? It was all good and well earlier in the season when we actually kept the ball. But now we have gradually become a counter-attacking long-ball team, he offers absolutely nothing. Doesn't help the defence and doesn't offer any offensive threat.
Completely agree, he's "neat and tidy" but offers little protection for the defence, and nothing offensively at all.
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wanker of the week on this thread westwood!
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Give Westwood a break. Sid was similar when he first started making the first team. Neat and tidy got all basics right and from there developed into an excellent midfielder. The problem is that there are too many other problems with our team including lack of confidence all around that will hinder his development if it continues and if we get relegated it will actually help his development as he will flourish in the Second division.
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Westwood will develop. Anyone expecting him to be a tough tackler, or a goal scoring midfielder doesn't understand his game. He is there to feed the ball into the more creative players feet and space. His game is working well. Especially with N'Zogbia in form in front of him, and the prospect of a defensive midfielder next to him will see him flourish.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he isn't a decent player. I just don't think he should be starting now. In our position and with our style of play, Westwood is a luxery we can't afford.
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I thought he was superb yesterday, he was everywhere and he was playing them on his own in the middle (again).
I think for £2m he's an absolute steal, I've been massively impressed with him this season.
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Westwood will develop. Anyone expecting him to be a tough tackler, or a goal scoring midfielder doesn't understand his game. He is there to feed the ball into the more creative players feet and space. His game is working well. Especially with N'Zogbia in form in front of him, and the prospect of a defensive midfielder next to him will see him flourish.
I agree with that completely. It's not his job to be an all-action box to box player. If he is good he'll be the link between defence and attack and also probably the main man to dictate the tempo of the game.
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Watching the highlights, he does fall asleep, and let players run behind him, a la their 2nd goal.And the 3rd goal came from Bennett trying to play football instead o hoofing the ball away.
Going back to Westwood, he does try to play football, and for £2m is a good squad player at the very least.
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I like Westwood, but he needs a physical presence next to him. He's a good player.
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With the ball he's promising, without it he's got to improve dramatically if he's going to be a top flight player.
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I like Westwood, but he needs a physical presence next to him. He's a good player.
Agreed, this lad will be a proper player in time. Lovely cross for Gabby's goal.
Must keep if we go down but I think Swansea were in for him before we signed him so they could come in again.
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Reminds me a bit of Joe Allen at Liverpool. Due to our lack of options in midfield, he's probably played a bit more than he should have this season, but on the whole he has done well. Needs a mobile, physical midfielder next to him and an active ball playing attacking midfielder in front of him to bring out the best in him.
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Yeah Swansea were looking at him as an Allen replacement. Worried if they come in with a 4-5m bid, we'll bite and be left with proper shite like Delph and Bannan.
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To be honest I'm not worried about anything beyond the end of the season at the moment.
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Why are so many people convinced there will be a fire sale at the end of this season and we'll end up worse than Barnsley? If we go down, and granted things look rather shit, we'll look to shed the big earners first if possible. The other new players are all under contract, and while that doesn't mean as much as it once did, they also represent the best chance of immediate promotion. There's no reason to sell.
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Does anyone else get why he is started now? It was all good and well earlier in the season when we actually kept the ball. But now we have gradually become a counter-attacking long-ball team, he offers absolutely nothing. Doesn't help the defence and doesn't offer any offensive threat.
Completely agree, he's "neat and tidy" but offers little protection for the defence, and nothing offensively at all.
Apart from setting up Gabby's goal?
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Apparently Everton's midfield were going to devour ours yesterday. KEA and Westwood can't have done too bad if we nearly won the game. I still think Delph, in his current progressive form, is a better bet than both when fit.
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Why are so many people convinced there will be a fire sale at the end of this season and we'll end up worse than Barnsley? If we go down, and granted things look rather shit, we'll look to shed the big earners first if possible. The other new players are all under contract, and while that doesn't mean as much as it once did, they also represent the best chance of immediate promotion. There's no reason to sell.
1) Benteke won't want to play in the Championship at all, and if other clubs come in for the likes of Westwood, they'll probably be off as well. We might want to shed the big earners first, but other clubs will be more interested in what they can more or less force us to sell.
2) If the finances are rubbish on Premier League money, then they're going to be diabolical on Championship income. We'll need to sell anything saleable just to help Lerner's cash black hole. See my post in GM for the likely financial consequences of relegation.
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Why are so many people convinced there will be a fire sale at the end of this season and we'll end up worse than Barnsley? If we go down, and granted things look rather shit, we'll look to shed the big earners first if possible. The other new players are all under contract, and while that doesn't mean as much as it once did, they also represent the best chance of immediate promotion. There's no reason to sell.
1) Benteke won't want to play in the Championship at all, and if other clubs come in for the likes of Westwood, they'll probably be off as well. We might want to shed the big earners first, but other clubs will be more interested in what they can more or less force us to sell.
2) If the finances are rubbish on Premier League money, then they're going to be diabolical on Championship income. We'll need to sell anything saleable just to help Lerner's cash black hole. See my post in GM for the likely financial consequences of relegation.
Too busy looking at your post match thread contributions. ;)
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Does anyone else get why he is started now? It was all good and well earlier in the season when we actually kept the ball. But now we have gradually become a counter-attacking long-ball team, he offers absolutely nothing. Doesn't help the defence and doesn't offer any offensive threat.
Completely agree, he's "neat and tidy" but offers little protection for the defence, and nothing offensively at all.
Apart from the cross for the second goal?
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I think Westwood on the whole has done well and has a bright future. Lets give the lad a chance please
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Can anyone help... has Westwood been injured? Or was he just dropped on Saturday? I've not seen or heard why he was omitted. If he's injured, what is the injury and how long is he expected to be out? :-)
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we'll see see how the club spins it, but i reckon lowton and westwood were dropped.
and deservedly so, they were woeful against newcastle last weekend.
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Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, in the pre match interview on BT sport Lambo said that Westy was injured.
When asked if Lowton was injured he said 'no', and nothing more.
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Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, in the pre match interview on BT sport Lambo said that Westy was injured.
When asked if Lowton was injured he said 'no', and nothing more.
Cheers. Fingers crossed he'll be fit and back to his best soon. Hopefully Lowton will bounce back too.
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Westwood was said to be injured with a knock picked up in the week. Lowton was dropped it seems.
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Westwood was said to be injured with a knock picked up in the week. Lowton was dropped it seems.
Rested I imagine is the more appropriate term. It doesn't surprise me at all that one or two of our young kids are having second season dips of form. They'll come back stronger because the manager believes in them.
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Whilst I like Lowton in an attacking sense, I think he has been extremely poor defensively for quite a while - a good number of our goals conceded come from his side. When you combine that with a weakness on the left as well as at least one in the Centre it doesn't bode well. Which is why for all the faults I found against him in the Liverpool game, Bacuna was tremendous in that position on Saturday.
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Lambert was asked about Lowton and Westwood and said Westwood was injured and Lowton was not injured.
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Strange considering that though Lowton has been below-par, I don't think he has been any worse then Westwood or Weimann so far form-wise. Perhaps Lambert feels his drop in form is down to lack of effort?
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I only caught brief highlights on match of the day - was surprised sylla didnt get a start at Norwich , Westwood and Lowton have been below par this season , so it will be interesting to see how things develop with them - I don't think we can play kea and Westwood together at home.
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It's interesting that PL has substituted ML and dropped him this season already, considering that he was an ever present bar one last year.
Perhaps he's developed an attitude and PL is showing him who the gaffer is.
I think he's one to keep faith with players even when they aren't playing too well (see Andi Weiman)
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He's been dropped, as has Lowton, because we now have the options to do so. There's no way that Lowton wouldn't have been dropped during the 12 Goals of Christmas run last season, he was as bad as any of the defence. Westwood was fine, but is now off form and has been dropped. He'll get his form back at some point and come back into the side. It's good to now have options to allow for players to go in and out of form.
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Westwood wasn't dropped as explained above
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Westwood wasn't dropped as explained above
Ah missed that. But he will be next time, and you suspect one of them was going to go - if Lambo were going to go like-for-like he wouldn't have brought in Tonev as the replacement.
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I don't think Lowton would be the sort to have an attitude problem, he's just having a dip in form like all kids do. Last season he had to play through his dip, this season he's got Bacuna to fill in. Lowton will get back in the side at some point and I'm sure get back on form. Likewise I expect Westwood to kick on again in the coming weeks.
It's good to have options though.
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It's also good to have an environment where no position is secure should there be a dip in form or even focus. Maybe Lowton is just tired and is making mental errors, thus needs a complete break. That's ok. He's always struck me as a quiet, mature lad, so I believe both he and Westwood, who prior to his injury also lacked some form, will come back stronger.
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So if Lowton was dropped because of a drop in form what is he going to do about Luna?
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So if Lowton was dropped because of a drop in form what is he going to do about Luna?
We'll see tonight and Saturday, I guess.
As TV says we have some options now, injuries allowing.
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Luna is just settling in and should be given time.
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So if Lowton was dropped because of a drop in form what is he going to do about Luna?
Why are people so quick to rubbish players who have only been here for 5 minutes, it's ridiculous.
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Lunas been largely okay. Hes had a couple of shockers, but he's still been better than Lowton has this season. Obviously he needs to up his game to the levels he showed in the first two matches again, otherwise Bennett will get another chance.
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At some point Bennett will be given a chance again. He's only a young lad himself and at times he was showing signs of growing into the position. He's just not ready for us to rely on him though which is why Tony is important.
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If Bennett impresses tonight, he must keep his place for Saturday. Luna's last two performances have been nothing short of horrendous.
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If Bennett impresses tonight, he must keep his place for Saturday. Luna's last two performances have been nothing short of horrendous.
No they haven't really.
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Luna has been poor in both previous fixtures, particularly against Cabaye where he kept showing him on to his stronger foot , thereby inviting him to shoot. That said, he is still adjusting to English football so I think judgements can be a little rash sometimes. It'd be great if Bennett impresses tonight; although, I'd still be concerned that he is defensively frail and IMO was the worst player last season.
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* Sorry chaps, I confused Cabaye with Ben Arfa.
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* Sorry chaps, I confused Cabaye with Ben Arfa.
I thought he dealt with Ben Arfa quite well in the first half but as the game wore on gave him more space.
What Ben Arfa did, though, was to pin Luna back so we didn't see the best part of his game; getting forward.
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Lambert said yesterday how well luna did in Saturday considering he was carrying an injury , i would expect Bennett to play tonight, but i hink its a tad harsh for people to be on Luna's back already.
As for Lowton , i was surprised he didn't make the bench but its good that lambert is prepared to wield the axe when players lose form - it keeps them on their toes- regarding Westwood he hasn't found last seasons form as yet and I don't like seeing him and kea in the same midfield at home as i find it a bit negative .
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If Bennett impresses tonight, he must keep his place for Saturday. Luna's last two performances have been nothing short of horrendous.
No they haven't really.
They would've been had Bennett produced them no doubt.
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If Bennett impresses tonight, he must keep his place for Saturday. Luna's last two performances have been nothing short of horrendous.
No they haven't really.
They would've been had Bennett produced them no doubt.
Bennett struggled to adjust last season and we needed another left back anyway. I don't think Luna has been that bad and he definatley has'nt been horrendous. He was carrying an injury on Saturday and maybe should'nt have played but he did and overall he was ok.
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Luna has been poor in both previous fixtures, particularly against Cabaye where he kept showing him on to his stronger foot , thereby inviting him to shoot. That said, he is still adjusting to English football so I think judgements can be a little rash sometimes. It'd be great if Bennett impresses tonight; although, I'd still be concerned that he is defensively frail and IMO was the worst player last season.
Bennett the worse player last season ? not for me....Bannan,Ireland all failed to produce any sort of performance.
Bennett is a very young lad playing quite a few games for us and although is likely to make a poor challenge here and there, for me actually started to look settled in the position.
as for Tony Moon he looks quite a good footballer and can only get better, in my opinion
UTV
The Doc
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If Bennett impresses tonight, he must keep his place for Saturday. Luna's last two performances have been nothing short of horrendous.
No they haven't really.
They would've been had Bennett produced them no doubt.
Bennett struggled to adjust last season and we needed another left back anyway. I don't think Luna has been that bad and he definatley has'nt been horrendous. He was carrying an injury on Saturday and maybe should'nt have played but he did and overall he was ok.
Norwich rarely bothered to attack down the right in the end because they saw (as most of us did) that Luna offered zero resistance to Snodgrass. Every time they attacked down the left, they got a cross in. Certainly as bad as anything Bennett produced last season.
If he was indeed playing with an injury then Lambert gets most of the blame considering he had fully-fit players who could cover.
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If Bennett impresses tonight, he must keep his place for Saturday. Luna's last two performances have been nothing short of horrendous.
No they haven't really.
They would've been had Bennett produced them no doubt.
Bennett struggled to adjust last season and we needed another left back anyway. I don't think Luna has been that bad and he definatley has'nt been horrendous. He was carrying an injury on Saturday and maybe should'nt have played but he did and overall he was ok.
Norwich rarely bothered to attack down the right in the end because they saw (as most of us did) that Luna offered zero resistance to Snodgrass. Every time they attacked down the left, they got a cross in. Certainly as bad as anything Bennett produced last season.
What are you talking about?
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Bennett showed a lot of promise in the last few months of the season and i certainly wouldn't write him off or class him as the worst player of last season - there were far worse than him .
As for luna i can't comment on the Norwich game and no doubt he was poor against newcastle but so were most of the team - i would have no qualms if we line up with either luna or Bennett at left back as both have shown potential .
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I think unless a full-back manages to prevent the player he's up against from delivering any sort of ball into the box for 90 minutes he'll be deemed to have had a bad game by some! Luna's performance was absolutely fine on Saturday, IMO.
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I've just said to someone on here that so far we've played 3 away games and let in three goals, one of which was an own goal. I think a bit of credit's due personally.
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I think unless a full-back manages to prevent the player he's up against from delivering any sort of ball into the box for 90 minutes he'll be deemed to have had a bad game by some! Luna's performance was absolutely fine on Saturday, IMO.
nail on the head Russ...
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I think unless a full-back manages to prevent the player he's up against from delivering any sort of ball into the box for 90 minutes he'll be deemed to have had a bad game by some! Luna's performance was absolutely fine on Saturday, IMO.
Well actually Snodgrass had 20 cross attempts. In contrast Redmond only had 4 cross attempts. Why? Because one was up against a full-back who played well and one was up against a full-back who played poorly. What is the point of having a full-back if not to prevent opposition wingers getting crosses in?
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I think unless a full-back manages to prevent the player he's up against from delivering any sort of ball into the box for 90 minutes he'll be deemed to have had a bad game by some! Luna's performance was absolutely fine on Saturday, IMO.
Well actually Snodgrass had 20 cross attempts. In contrast Redmond only had 4 cross attempts. Why? Because one was up against a full-back who played well and one was up against a full-back who played poorly. What is the point of having a full-back if not to prevent opposition wingers getting crosses in?
It's not all about the quantity of crosses. It's as much about the quality of them and if the full back restricts the opposing player into crosses that can be better handled when they come into the box then he has partly done his job. Believe me, even Maldini allowed crosses from his side of the pitch.
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* Sorry chaps, I confused Cabaye with Ben Arfa.
I thought he dealt with Ben Arfa quite well in the first half but as the game wore on gave him more space.
What Ben Arfa did, though, was to pin Luna back so we didn't see the best part of his game; getting forward.
Luna struggled against Ben Arfa all game, IMO, and was constantly left baffled by his unpredictability. How many times did Ben Arfa feign a move inside and then disappear down the touchline or drop a shoulder and hit an early short. Although, coming up against a winger of Ben Arfa's ability 4 games into your career in the Premier League is inevitably going to prove difficult for any full back! Plus, we were all too often overrun in the middle of the park, which wouldn't have helped.
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Luna has been poor in both previous fixtures, particularly against Cabaye where he kept showing him on to his stronger foot , thereby inviting him to shoot. That said, he is still adjusting to English football so I think judgements can be a little rash sometimes. It'd be great if Bennett impresses tonight; although, I'd still be concerned that he is defensively frail and IMO was the worst player last season.
Bennett the worse player last season ? not for me....Bannan,Ireland all failed to produce any sort of performance.
Bennett is a very young lad playing quite a few games for us and although is likely to make a poor challenge here and there, for me actually started to look settled in the position.
as for Tony Moon he looks quite a good footballer and can only get better, in my opinion
UTV
The Doc
Worst in terms of regular starting XI. Ireland, Bannan et al were written off because of their poor performances early in the season. Bennett, I feel, did begin to improve but only after some awful performances. Bradford away anyone? I understand he is young and inexperienced and as a collective last season was very difficult so, in retrospect, perhaps my wording was harsh.
I agree with your thoughts regarding Luna. He looks promising.
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Ben Arfa's a quality player and when he's on, most full-backs are going to struggle. Using that 1 game as a stick with which to beat Luna is a tad ridiculous. In the other game, we kept a clean sheet so he couldn't have been that bad.
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* Sorry chaps, I confused Cabaye with Ben Arfa.
I thought he dealt with Ben Arfa quite well in the first half but as the game wore on gave him more space.
What Ben Arfa did, though, was to pin Luna back so we didn't see the best part of his game; getting forward.
Luna struggled against Ben Arfa all game, IMO, and was constantly left baffled by his unpredictability. How many times did Ben Arfa feign a move inside and then disappear down the touchline or drop a shoulder and hit an early short. Although, coming up against a winger of Ben Arfa's ability 4 games into your career in the Premier League is inevitably going to prove difficult for any full back! Plus, we were all too often overrun in the middle of the park, which wouldn't have helped.
Snodgrass is a very effective player as well and was the only Norwich player who was a threat, I said on the day, the issue with slating a full back if a winger plays well is, would you blame our winger if the opposition full back kept him quiet? Would that not be a case of the full back just doing his job? Sometimes you have to accept that the opposition have played well, and unfortunately for Luna he's been up against the oppositions best player 2 weeks running.
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I think unless a full-back manages to prevent the player he's up against from delivering any sort of ball into the box for 90 minutes he'll be deemed to have had a bad game by some! Luna's performance was absolutely fine on Saturday, IMO.
Well actually Snodgrass had 20 cross attempts. In contrast Redmond only had 4 cross attempts. Why? Because one was up against a full-back who played well and one was up against a full-back who played poorly. What is the point of having a full-back if not to prevent opposition wingers getting crosses in?
It's not all about the quantity of crosses. It's as much about the quality of them and if the full back restricts the opposing player into crosses that can be better handled when they come into the box then he has partly done his job. Believe me, even Maldini allowed crosses from his side of the pitch.
I can see Isa's point. At the game on Saturday I was constantly concerned when Snodgrass came up against Luna. It's not the quantity of crosses, no, and I don't doubt that even Maldini allowed a winger to get a ball in from time to time. However, Luna did look frail and it can't be coincidence that Norwich targeted that area of the pitch as Newcastle had done a week previous.
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I think unless a full-back manages to prevent the player he's up against from delivering any sort of ball into the box for 90 minutes he'll be deemed to have had a bad game by some! Luna's performance was absolutely fine on Saturday, IMO.
Well actually Snodgrass had 20 cross attempts. In contrast Redmond only had 4 cross attempts. Why? Because one was up against a full-back who played well and one was up against a full-back who played poorly. What is the point of having a full-back if not to prevent opposition wingers getting crosses in?
It's not all about the quantity of crosses. It's as much about the quality of them and if the full back restricts the opposing player into crosses that can be better handled when they come into the box then he has partly done his job. Believe me, even Maldini allowed crosses from his side of the pitch.
I can see Isa's point. At the game on Saturday I was constantly concerned when Snodgrass came up against Luna. It's not the quantity of crosses, no, and I don't doubt that even Maldini allowed a winger to get a ball in from time to time. However, Luna did look frail and it can't be coincidence that Norwich targeted that area of the pitch as Newcastle had done a week previous.
They targeted that area of the pitch because Snodgrass is a good player.
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Ben Arfa's a quality player and when he's on, most full-backs are going to struggle. Using that 1 game as a stick with which to beat Luna is a tad ridiculous. In the other game, we kept a clean sheet so he couldn't have been that bad.
If you read my response that's exactly what I'm avoiding doing. Playing Devil's Advocate, could it have been Norwich were poorer?
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I think unless a full-back manages to prevent the player he's up against from delivering any sort of ball into the box for 90 minutes he'll be deemed to have had a bad game by some! Luna's performance was absolutely fine on Saturday, IMO.
Well actually Snodgrass had 20 cross attempts. In contrast Redmond only had 4 cross attempts. Why? Because one was up against a full-back who played well and one was up against a full-back who played poorly. What is the point of having a full-back if not to prevent opposition wingers getting crosses in?
It's not all about the quantity of crosses. It's as much about the quality of them and if the full back restricts the opposing player into crosses that can be better handled when they come into the box then he has partly done his job. Believe me, even Maldini allowed crosses from his side of the pitch.
I can see Isa's point. At the game on Saturday I was constantly concerned when Snodgrass came up against Luna. It's not the quantity of crosses, no, and I don't doubt that even Maldini allowed a winger to get a ball in from time to time. However, Luna did look frail and it can't be coincidence that Norwich targeted that area of the pitch as Newcastle had done a week previous.
They targeted that area of the pitch because Snodgrass is a good player.
That's good logic.
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I think unless a full-back manages to prevent the player he's up against from delivering any sort of ball into the box for 90 minutes he'll be deemed to have had a bad game by some! Luna's performance was absolutely fine on Saturday, IMO.
Well actually Snodgrass had 20 cross attempts. In contrast Redmond only had 4 cross attempts. Why? Because one was up against a full-back who played well and one was up against a full-back who played poorly. What is the point of having a full-back if not to prevent opposition wingers getting crosses in?
It's not all about the quantity of crosses. It's as much about the quality of them and if the full back restricts the opposing player into crosses that can be better handled when they come into the box then he has partly done his job. Believe me, even Maldini allowed crosses from his side of the pitch.
I can see Isa's point. At the game on Saturday I was constantly concerned when Snodgrass came up against Luna. It's not the quantity of crosses, no, and I don't doubt that even Maldini allowed a winger to get a ball in from time to time. However, Luna did look frail and it can't be coincidence that Norwich targeted that area of the pitch as Newcastle had done a week previous.
They targeted that area of the pitch because Snodgrass is a good player.
That's good logic.
Sorry, I accidentally posted by mistake. So Luna had absolutely nothing to do with it what so ever?
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I think unless a full-back manages to prevent the player he's up against from delivering any sort of ball into the box for 90 minutes he'll be deemed to have had a bad game by some! Luna's performance was absolutely fine on Saturday, IMO.
Well actually Snodgrass had 20 cross attempts. In contrast Redmond only had 4 cross attempts. Why? Because one was up against a full-back who played well and one was up against a full-back who played poorly. What is the point of having a full-back if not to prevent opposition wingers getting crosses in?
It's not all about the quantity of crosses. It's as much about the quality of them and if the full back restricts the opposing player into crosses that can be better handled when they come into the box then he has partly done his job. Believe me, even Maldini allowed crosses from his side of the pitch.
I can see Isa's point. At the game on Saturday I was constantly concerned when Snodgrass came up against Luna. It's not the quantity of crosses, no, and I don't doubt that even Maldini allowed a winger to get a ball in from time to time. However, Luna did look frail and it can't be coincidence that Norwich targeted that area of the pitch as Newcastle had done a week previous.
They targeted that area of the pitch because Snodgrass is a good player.
That's good logic.
Actually all Norwich fans agree that Snodgrass was out of form coming into the game whilst Redmond was in form. At the beginning of the game Redmond actually had a lot more of the ball. However when Norwich realised that Bacuna was doing a great job on him whilst Snodgrass had acres of space each time he had the ball, they then intensified their pressure down our left side. Especially in the second-half.
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I think unless a full-back manages to prevent the player he's up against from delivering any sort of ball into the box for 90 minutes he'll be deemed to have had a bad game by some! Luna's performance was absolutely fine on Saturday, IMO.
Well actually Snodgrass had 20 cross attempts. In contrast Redmond only had 4 cross attempts. Why? Because one was up against a full-back who played well and one was up against a full-back who played poorly. What is the point of having a full-back if not to prevent opposition wingers getting crosses in?
It's not all about the quantity of crosses. It's as much about the quality of them and if the full back restricts the opposing player into crosses that can be better handled when they come into the box then he has partly done his job. Believe me, even Maldini allowed crosses from his side of the pitch.
I can see Isa's point. At the game on Saturday I was constantly concerned when Snodgrass came up against Luna. It's not the quantity of crosses, no, and I don't doubt that even Maldini allowed a winger to get a ball in from time to time. However, Luna did look frail and it can't be coincidence that Norwich targeted that area of the pitch as Newcastle had done a week previous.
They targeted that area of the pitch because Snodgrass is a good player.
That's good logic.
Actually all Norwich fans agree that Snodgrass was out of form coming into the game whilst Redmond was in form. At the beginning of the game Redmond actually had a lot more of the ball. However when Norwich realised that Bacuna was doing a great job on him whilst Snodgrass had acres of space each time he had the ball, they then intensified their pressure down our left side. Especially in the second-half.
Yes, all the talk had been about ex-Rag Redmond. He'd taken Southampton to bits a few weeks back. I'm glad someone agrees with me with regard to Snodgrass/Luna/our left side!!! They clearly targeted it as a vulnerability. It can't be a coincidence that our left side also contained Tonev, who was also poor!
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I don't think Tony covered himself in glory on saturday, but I think there is a tendency on here sometimes (not just here, all football fans do it) to criticise our own players rather than giving credit to the opposition. I'd say it was a combination of a) relatively good winger and b) not quite so good full back in this case.
Westy on the other hand, has simply been not as good as he was last season. But he did set a very high standard for himself, I'm sure he'll be back to being the player we excpect soon.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but we did win this game didn't we?
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Correct me if I'm wrong but we did win this game didn't we?
Indeed and with a clean sheet so cant see how things could have been as bad as portrayed.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but we did win this game didn't we?
Ah yes...the 'a win equates to eleven good performances' theory.
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I think unless a full-back manages to prevent the player he's up against from delivering any sort of ball into the box for 90 minutes he'll be deemed to have had a bad game by some! Luna's performance was absolutely fine on Saturday, IMO.
Well actually Snodgrass had 20 cross attempts. In contrast Redmond only had 4 cross attempts. Why? Because one was up against a full-back who played well and one was up against a full-back who played poorly. What is the point of having a full-back if not to prevent opposition wingers getting crosses in?
It's not all about the quantity of crosses. It's as much about the quality of them and if the full back restricts the opposing player into crosses that can be better handled when they come into the box then he has partly done his job. Believe me, even Maldini allowed crosses from his side of the pitch.
That is a weighty comparison. I remember, many years ago, watching Milan on the Italian on channel 4. Baresi got pulled wide, edge of the box, at the by-line. Attacker shapes to cross. The great man, in one movement, the blink of a mortal's eye, then checks inside himself, sees there's no threat, and lets the bloke cross. Now, are you saying our Tone's THAT good?
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Correct me if I'm wrong but we did win this game didn't we?
Ah yes...the 'a win equates to eleven good performances' theory.
Which nobody's said, but feel free to carry on down that road if you like.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but we did win this game didn't we?
Ah yes...the 'a win equates to eleven good performances' theory.
Which nobody's said, but feel free to carry on down that road if you like.
I was just humouring you... ;)
But I don't get the whole idea that just pointing out that a player has had a poor performance is somehow negative as your original post basically implied.
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I think unless a full-back manages to prevent the player he's up against from delivering any sort of ball into the box for 90 minutes he'll be deemed to have had a bad game by some! Luna's performance was absolutely fine on Saturday, IMO.
Well actually Snodgrass had 20 cross attempts. In contrast Redmond only had 4 cross attempts. Why? Because one was up against a full-back who played well and one was up against a full-back who played poorly. What is the point of having a full-back if not to prevent opposition wingers getting crosses in?
It's not all about the quantity of crosses. It's as much about the quality of them and if the full back restricts the opposing player into crosses that can be better handled when they come into the box then he has partly done his job. Believe me, even Maldini allowed crosses from his side of the pitch.
That is a weighty comparison. I remember, many years ago, watching Milan on the Italian on channel 4. Baresi got pulled wide, edge of the box, at the by-line. Attacker shapes to cross. The great man, in one movement, the blink of a mortal's eye, then checks inside himself, sees there's no threat, and lets the bloke cross. Now, are you saying our Tone's THAT good?
Off course I am ::)
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Couldn't see the point in starting a new thread.
After watching Ash play a few times this season, I think that he has hit the 2nd season syndrome. He was pretty poor on Saturday and should have been subbed at half time. Instead KEA got pulled, and whilst not a huge fan of his either, he was having more of an effect on the game than AW. His crossing from dead balls has been woeful and to me he's chasing the game where as at points last season he was having a controlling influence.
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He has been really poor for me. Very disappointing and needs some bench time like Lowton.
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I can't see what he brings to the team. This season the only positive thing I can say about him is that when he's not playing poorly he's at best steady. As others have said, the money spent on Kozak should have been invested in the midfield.
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He's not hit the standards he did last season but with a player as young as him, it was possible it was going to happen at some point.
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He's not hit the standards he did last season but with a player as young as him, it was possible it was going to happen at some point.
Indeed.
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He's not hit the standards he did last season but with a player as young as him, it was possible it was going to happen at some point.
Agreed.
I still think he's better than El Ahmadi.
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He's not hit the standards he did last season but with a player as young as him, it was possible it was going to happen at some point.
Agreed.
I still think he's better than El Ahmadi.
Not this season he isn't.
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He's not hit the standards he did last season but with a player as young as him, it was possible it was going to happen at some point.
Agreed.
I still think he's better than El Ahmadi.
Not this season he isn't.
He was better last season than El Ahmadi has been this, and I reckon he'll find his form again given time.
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He's not hit the standards he did last season but with a player as young as him, it was possible it was going to happen at some point.
Agreed.
I still think he's better than El Ahmadi.
Not this season he isn't.
He was better last season than El Ahmadi has been this, and I reckon he'll find his form again given time.
Indeed he was and I was pleased last season with him but he needs to get his game together fast as Lowton has found out lambert will not hesitate to ditch him unless he delivers - Westwood this season has been hugely disappointing , kea average - in all honesty I'm not sure either are good enough long term.
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It's always KEA who gets subbed and that really annoys me. I'm not a huge fan of El Ahmadi but he offers us more than Westwood is at the moment.
Another thing, how bad was that corner?
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Two things he needs to sort out that he does in every game he plays.
1 - when a player is pulled out of position (more often than not this relates to the full-backs), Westwood sees it (which is more than most do) and points at the opposition player as if to say "look, he's unmarked!". Now, rather than point, why doesn't he himself go out to the player, especially when there will be two other centre-midfielders left in the middle of the pitch. In our formation, a midfielder can drift out to cover somebody. So, less pointing, more covering and taking responsilibilty.
2 - don't bottle challenges
He looked a good player last season, but he hasn't quite gone for him this season so far, but he's not the only one. The same thing is happening to Weimann and Lowton. I say persist at least until Xmas and take it from there.
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It's always KEA who gets subbed and that really annoys me. I'm not a huge fan of El Ahmadi but he offers us more than Westwood is at the moment.
Another thing, how bad was that corner?
I just wonder whether KEA struggles to last 90 minutes. He runs around a lot, probably as a consequence that we average around 40% possession thus far (no surprise given opposition).
For me I think we've got KEA as a finished article. He's not got enough in his locker.
I hope Westwood can develop more to his game, but it doesn't look good so far.
I'd like Sylla to be starting more. We looked much better for having him in the side last season, and he seems the one in midfield (Delph aside) who has most potential.
I'd also be tempted to bring Johnson in. He's mobile, tidy on the ball, has a reasonable scoring record at youth and reserve level and seems to have an eye for a pass. With Westy and KEA struggling, I'd like to see other players being tried.
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I think Westwood is one of those quietly proficient players, rarely spectacular but does the disciplined, donkey work to allow others to shine. He's clearly struggling for a bit of form but when he's on his game it's all about positional discipline and keeping things ticking over.
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The most defensively inept 'defensive midfielder' I've ever seen. Until he is able to protect the defence, he will remain a passenger in the team.
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The most defensively inept 'defensive midfielder' I've ever seen. Until he is able to protect the defence, he will remain a passenger in the team.
He's not a defensive midfield player, if that's how you're judging him then you're about 10 years out of date.
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I'd say he's more of a holding midfield player if anything.
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I'd say he was a deep lying midfielder, because nobody else has yet.
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Deep-lying playmaker would be the term I'd go for. Which is fine, as long as he's paired with an anchorman who's willing to do the dirty stuff. The closest thing we have is probably Sylla, although he seems to be unable to get game time at the moment.
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i'd say he is not good enough in any department, he's not rubbish, but we need better
thought he was overhyped last season to, but he's not improved any this term
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Hes an inferior Carrick, but to be fair to the lad he is only young, and only cost £1.5m?
Like most players his age, he needs to strengthen up, learn the game, and keep working at his game.He has a decent pass, not a great pass, and is a busy player.Atm hes not strong enough or quick enough, and he does'nt track his players good enough.
For me hes not good enough , hopefully he will be, but not atm.
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like Lowton he's had a bit of a slump. Also at this level there are better scouts and game plans being drawn by the opposition designed to counter every system and player. He needs to work his way through this and he has always come across as very astute and level headed. We as fans also need to show some patience as these players develop. Not everyone is a Benteke and even he got pelters from many at the start.
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We certainly do need to be patient with this squad of players.
The whole ethos is about improving each individual so the collective gets much better. Whilst that means us fans need to stay behind the individuals, I also think it means Lambert needs to identify drops in form and allow others (Sylla, Bacuna, Johnson etc) to be given the opportunity to improve.
In the particular instance of Westwood, I was predicting him to be Carrick's replacement at Man U (such was his promise last year) so it's a shame that he's not maintained that trajectory. Regardless he's shown enough potential to not be written off, however right now Lambert should maybe reshuffle the pack slightly as I'm not convinced KEA/Westwood should be in the team together at the same time.
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Watched him having a kick about at half time at the first pre-season games in Germany when has was only about 6 yards from where I was standing. I remember thinking at the time that he connected with the ball really well (more so than those warming up with him). He seemed to actually kick the ball very very sweetly, if that makes sense. Unfortunately, haven't really seen much evidence of that when he actually plays in a game.
We shouldn't really be expecting miracles from him but he needs to show some improvement as so far this year he has been very poor and I didn't see him do an awful lot for the vast majority of last season.
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I think his biggest problem is the fact that even when he's doing his job then it largely goes unnoticed. The role demands that he has good positioning and moves the ball quickly. If he was breaking into the box ahead of the other midfielders, or dribbled around players from deep positions then he wouldn't be doing his job.
His biggest problem at the moment is his passing is not incisive enough and he's committing stupid fouls.
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I think his biggest problem is the fact that even when he's doing his job then it largely goes unnoticed. The role demands that he has good positioning and moves the ball quickly. If he was breaking into the box ahead of the other midfielders, or dribbled around players from deep positions then he wouldn't be doing his job.
His biggest problem at the moment is his passing is not incisive enough and he's committing stupid fouls.
I also think, as you say, he's the one that should always be available for a pass. But I think he's been hiding in games. Last season, from Jan onwards, he'd pretty much always be available to receive the ball from a team mate when he didn't have the ball himself.
In fairness it's not just him who's lacking in movement at the moment. Our movement off the ball when we're in possession has been well below what it was in the run in last season.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/ashley-westwood-could-england-star-2865687
Ashley Westwood can succeed Michael Carrick for England, according to Aston Villa boss Paul Lambert.
The holding midfielder has become an established top-flight player this season. And he weighed in with a brilliant maiden goal for the club at West Brom in a thrilling 2-2 draw .
Lambert said: “I would say he is in the mould of Carrick or Paul Scholes, but he will be always be his own man. That is a huge compliment to him.
“Every team needs one, you need somebody like him to make the engine work. You have to have someone disciplined to put the team first.”
Lambert snapped up Westwood, 23, from Crewe in August 2012 for under £1million.
He added: “The money we bought him for was incredible. If he ever did get a chance for England I don’t think he would let anyone down.”
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/ashley-westwood-could-england-star-2865687
Ashley Westwood can succeed Michael Carrick for England, according to Aston Villa boss Paul Lambert.
The holding midfielder has become an established top-flight player this season. And he weighed in with a brilliant maiden goal for the club at West Brom in a thrilling 2-2 draw .
Lambert said: “I would say he is in the mould of Carrick or Paul Scholes, but he will be always be his own man. That is a huge compliment to him.
“Every team needs one, you need somebody like him to make the engine work. You have to have someone disciplined to put the team first.”
Lambert snapped up Westwood, 23, from Crewe in August 2012 for under £1million.
He added: “The money we bought him for was incredible. If he ever did get a chance for England I don’t think he would let anyone down.”
Lambert is deluded.
That's like saying Rodney Trotter can take over from Benteke.
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Lambert is deluded.
That's like saying Rodney Trotter can take over from Benteke.
Don't get too wound up, he always massively overstates how good his players are in public. For instance, here he is telling everyone how Jonny Howson is as good as Iniesta: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Howson-is-like-Iniesta-claims-Norwich-boss-article888028.html
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Has Lambert ever taken Westwood off? Seems like he never gets subbed.
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Not sure if this is the best place to post this but.....
Big season for Westwood. I like him as a player and I'm really hoping he can kick on. We all know his form over the last 18 months has been up and down. With little expectation, he started off well, showing glimpses of real class, then was a little hot and cold last season, probably picking up a little bit after Christmas.
He is 23/24 now, and, with a little more strength and 18 months premier league experience behind him, I'm hopeful he raise his level and put in some consistent performances. He appears keen to take the responsibility on and be an influential member of the team. He is never afraid to receive the ball in tight situations and is an excellent passer (not just side to side like El Ahmadi but to develop play). Perhaps he does need to add an extra level of clinical incisiveness to his passing, but that isn't too far off. Although lightweight, he is tenacious in the tackle (maybe a little too gobby with the ref, but you'd rather that than a shrinking violet). If we are to move away from the 'hare em scare em' kick and chase football of the last couple of seasons, we really need Westy to step up.
With villa's frustrating inability to retain the ball, it is easy to point the finger at the midfield and question why they are struggling to control the game. However, this is a tough gig at Villa in recent years. With the defence jittery in possession and the attackers lacking the technique to hold the ball up you can see how much pressure is put on the midfield. The only relaxed possession we had last year were interchanges between Delph and Westy and when Benteke was in the mood to dominate and roll his foot over the ball. Everything else was fraught and hurried.
I'm hopeful that with Senderos, Vlaar, Okore, Richardson at the back (and much less of Baker, Bennett and Clark), and with the addition of another midfielder who is relaxed and comfortable in possession, Westwood can begin to dictate play on a regular basis, as we need him to.
Fingers crossed....
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Good post. I'd also hope he'll kick on a bit in terms of goalscoring. His goals against West Brom, Hull and ManYoo show that he's got a decent shot on him. Would be good if he could get it out a bit more often.
I'd also hope that he's one of those who is playing more like 20 games across the whole season rather than every match due to the other options that we'll hopefully have by then.
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If we sign one two midfielders who are a step up in class and with more experience then I can see Westwood struggling a bit to get back in the team. But as things are I still think he has something to offer, and when you are as young as him I don't think any great pressure should be put on him. Its not like he is another Baker who looks totally out of his depth at this level.
If Lambert did say that then he is a fool. That is the sort of thing you say when a player is hitting top form (like MON's world class comment with Young) not when they are still finding their feet.
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and with the addition of another midfielder who is relaxed and comfortable in possession, Westwood can begin to dictate play on a regular basis, as we need him to.
This is the critical point that has been mentioned many times. Westwood and Delph have been having to do things that they are not great at to compensate for the missing dominant central midfielder. Get the right man in and they will make better progress.
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He did say it. 8 months ago.
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There was a spell at the end of the previous season where he looked excellent but he dropped off a lot last year in my opinion.
It's certainly a bit of a cross-roads season because the Jan-May 2013 player is Premier League quality whereas the guy we've seen since is not.
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More than most, Westwood would probably benefit from having some better players in the team along side him, allowing him to dovetail with them and move the ball around with a bit more ease than present.
He has it all to prove, but I'm hopeful that within a year or two, we will be talking about him with some real pride.
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His performance at Newcastle last season was op class, but we did not see enough of that level of performance during the season.
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He did say it. 8 months ago.
Okay, I really should start looking at the dates on this posts...
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If we sign one two midfielders who are a step up in class and with more experience then I can see Westwood struggling a bit to get back in the team. But as things are I still think he has something to offer, and when you are as young as him I don't think any great pressure should be put on him. Its not like he is another Baker who looks totally out of his depth at this level.
If Lambert did say that then he is a fool. That is the sort of thing you say when a player is hitting top form (like MON's world class comment with Young) not when they are still finding their feet.
I think we'll only be in the market for one, but even then Westwood would be fighting with Cole probably for the third midfield place and I'd certainly fancy Cole over him against a number of opponents, but at least it will give us options and fighting for his place won't do him any harm.
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Is he any better than Gavin McCann in his "prime"?
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Is he any better than Gavin McCann in his "prime"?
They're not really comparable players.
One was in the team to tackle, one was in the team to pass the ball.
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Even now, on top of some of the shite served up in recent years, I still wince when I see footage of McCann playing for us.
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If we sign one two midfielders who are a step up in class and with more experience then I can see Westwood struggling a bit to get back in the team. But as things are I still think he has something to offer, and when you are as young as him I don't think any great pressure should be put on him. Its not like he is another Baker who looks totally out of his depth at this level.
If Lambert did say that then he is a fool. That is the sort of thing you say when a player is hitting top form (like MON's world class comment with Young) not when they are still finding their feet.
We'll only sign one more I think.
If it's Ki then I reckon he'll play him and Westwood stationed infront of the back 4. Not sure on positioning but you'd surely think both of those can keep things ticking on the passing. Delph will play more advanced and then it will either be Cole or N'zogbia depending on fitness.
Could even be a diamond actually.
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I can also see Westwood and ki holding. Unless we play a diamond (which we might) that does leave Delph as the most advanced of three. Not sure about the creativity there
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Even now, on top of some of the shite served up in recent years, I still wince when I see footage of McCann playing for us.
I used to be like that with Aaron Hughes. I know he did ok at Fulham, but I thought he was truly awful for us.
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I can also see Westwood and ki holding. Unless we play a diamond (which we might) that does leave Delph as the most advanced of three. Not sure about the creativity there
Depending on the formation, I could see Westwood holding with Ki (if he arrives) and Delph in front of him in a midfield three. I think having a more advanced attacking midfielder would also help Westwood as he is more than capable of sliding passes through into those kind of areas.
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Agreed on the Aaron Hughes thing. Also McCann and bloody Eirik Bakke. Christ, to think we were pulling our hair out because Doug wouldn't sanction getting him in permanently.
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I still wince whenever I see Baker's name on the teamsheet. The last 2 years have reduced me to a wincing quivering wreck. There is always a moment when the opposition winger/forward realises what happens if he sprints directly at Baker when Baker has possession.
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I thought McCann was very good for us in his first season. Our midfield could probably do with a player like him (with a bit more style and technical ability) in the middle which would allow Westy and Delph to be more expressive.
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Westwood deserves a mention for yesterday too. Quietly effective, never out of position. He's developing nicely now he has some quality and experience around him.
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Westwood deserves a mention for yesterday too. Quietly effective, never out of position. He's developing nicely now he has some quality and experience around him.
I thought his set piece delivery was very good yesterday too. It's also been a point of real frustration over the last couple of years. We actually looked a threat from set pieces yesterday, in part because Liverpools marking was shite, but first things first, the delivery has to be good and it was. He's got to get consistent with it though.
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I thin he's been our best midfielder this season and was way over criticised last
Jonathan Pearce said on MOTD that he'd had an outstanding twelve months. I wouldn't go that far, but I've never understood why he gets so much stick
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He is probably the only one of Lambert's lower league gambles that has actually paid off. Good performance yesterday.
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He looks good now he has some experience around him.
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I thin he's been our best midfielder this season and was way over criticised last
Jonathan Pearce said on MOTD that he'd had an outstanding twelve months. I wouldn't go that far, but I've never understood why he gets so much stick
In the same sentence Pearce also wondered if an inclusion in the England squad for Westwood could be a possiblity ..............Godzvilla!
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He is probably the only one of Lambert's lower league gambles that has actually paid off. Good performance yesterday.
Lowton paid off. And then fell away awfully. But we'll always have stoke and Sunderland Matthew.
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He is probably the only one of Lambert's lower league gambles that has actually paid off. Good performance yesterday.
Lowton paid off. And then fell away awfully. But we'll always have stoke and Sunderland Matthew.
I don't agree about Lowton. I thought he was defensively awful in his first season. I think one of the main reasons we look so much more organised now is that we're not constantly getting battered down the wings, and that's because we've got proper full backs at last.
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I thin he's been our best midfielder this season and was way over criticised last
Jonathan Pearce said on MOTD that he'd had an outstanding twelve months. I wouldn't go that far, but I've never understood why he gets so much stick
Agree with this. He did go missing too often in games last season but as has been mentioned he seems to be benefiting from playing in a more solid team. He compared himself to Carrick when he first arrived and it would be great to see him reach that sort of level as an unfussy possession recycler.
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Might have said this before, but I think he's the one who will most benefit from Cleverley's presence in our midfield, as someone who might be more willing and able to get into a more advanced position to receive a forward pass along the ground. The way we played last season, that was pretty much never available to Westwood (KEA/Sylla never going to do that, and Delph obviously is much more effective driving forward from deep), which basically meant that his passing options were pretty much always limited to sideways and backwards, or the long ball up to Benteke/Kozak; and in such a situation, given his questionable defensive qualities, he was always going to resemble a passenger.
On the other hand, on those few occasions we did play with a no. 10 (or with Albrighton out wide to stretch the defence), his passing game did look noticeably better. The problem with that, of course, was that the no.10 was either Weimann or Tonev, which left us even more exposed at the back. Hopefully the improved defence so far and having Cleverley there instead (who, based on his efforts yesterday, should at least be able to track back and provide KEA's energy whenever we have to defend) means we can be more comfortable with playing that 4-2-3-1 and not worrying about being hopelessly exposed.
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I thought he was excellent yesterday. He's always had a decent first touch but now he seems to have an impeccable one. His energy and control of our tempo (when in possession) have also notably improved. He's looking forward a lot earlier now too, as opposed to backwards or sideways, which is obviously helped by a better allround shape to the team.
I don't want to get carried away with him, but if the likes of Jack Colback are getting capped, surely Westwood can't be too far away?
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Yeah I am on the plus side for Westwood. Think he takes a good set piece and tends to be a solid six or seven out of ten performer. Think his confiderence was shatterned a bit a couple of years ago when we went on that dire run which almost saw us relageted. But I think he is now recovering.
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He is probably the only one of Lambert's lower league gambles that has actually paid off. Good performance yesterday.
Lowton paid off. And then fell away awfully. But we'll always have stoke and Sunderland Matthew.
I don't agree about Lowton. I thought he was defensively awful in his first season. I think one of the main reasons we look so much more organised now is that we're not constantly getting battered down the wings, and that's because we've got proper full backs at last.
I agree with that.
Also, re the first season, I think when we look back to it, there is a tendency (understandable, but it is still there) to really remember the nine or ten last games in which we improved hugely, and forget the preceding thirty where we were awful.
Lowton did improve in that run-in (they all did, pretty much) but last season was a real reality call.
The number of teams who slaughtered us down the flank was pretty impressive. If you look at our full back options, there wasn't too much solidity there.
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Yeah I am on the plus side for Westwood. Think he takes a good set piece and tends to be a solid six or seven out of ten performer. Think his confidence was shattered a bit a couple of years ago when we went on that dire run which almost saw us relegated. But I think he is now recovering.
Ironically, Westwood's set-piece taking is better when Benteke's not in the side. He doesn't put in those floated corners that Benteke apparently enjoys, and we look a lot more dangerous as a team because of that.
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Westwood could be a Des Bremner type of player, not flashy, but gets the job done.
Someone else thinks he could play for England...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2757478/Tom-Huddlestone-Mark-Noble-Ashley-Westwood-fit-England-not-Lee-Cattermole.html
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The arrivals of Sanchez and Cleverley are only a good thing for Westy. It'll keep him on his toes and ensure he keeps his performance levels up. He's good on the ball and we've got all too few English midfielders who can trap and pass a ball, so if he maintains his form, there's no reason he couldn't get a call up. We've an easy qualification group, and two years to get a group together capable of at least being competitive at the Euro's.
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Westwood could be a Des Bremner type of player, not flashy, but gets the job done.
Someone else thinks he could play for England...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2757478/Tom-Huddlestone-Mark-Noble-Ashley-Westwood-fit-England-not-Lee-Cattermole.html
The only thing that piece fails to take into account is the fact that Mark Noble is wank.
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I thought Westwood suffered a little from second season syndrome last year. So far this season I think Westwood has been one of our best performers and on this form I can well imagine him getting into the England squad too.
We have some good options in midfield. Not least is Sanchez, who will make things interesting when he settles and establishes himself in the team. That could push Westwood from the anchor role into a more offensive role. It would also mean we have 4 players fighting for 3 places with the likes of Bacuna and Cole all likely to be involved at one point or another.
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Westwood could be a Des Bremner type of player, not flashy, but gets the job done.
Someone else thinks he could play for England...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2757478/Tom-Huddlestone-Mark-Noble-Ashley-Westwood-fit-England-not-Lee-Cattermole.html
The only thing that piece fails to take into account is the fact that Mark Noble is wank.
I know his cousin. A blue nose with 'ZULU' tattooed onto his right calf.
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He's been really good this year, I think he's benefitting from having a competant defence behind him.
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He's been really good this year, I think he's benefitting from having a competant defence behind him.
The reverse is probably true too. The midfield are better protecting the defence.
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He's been really good this year, I think he's benefitting from having a competant defence behind him.
Likewise I think a bit more midfield quality alongside him and Delphy helps too.
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Westwood could be a Des Bremner type of player, not flashy, but gets the job done.
Someone else thinks he could play for England...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2757478/Tom-Huddlestone-Mark-Noble-Ashley-Westwood-fit-England-not-Lee-Cattermole.html
The only thing that piece fails to take into account is the fact that Mark Noble is wank.
I know his cousin. A blue nose with 'ZULU' tattooed onto his right calf.
Upside down no doubt.
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He's been really good this year, I think he's benefitting from having a competant defence behind him.
The reverse is probably true too. The midfield are better protecting the defence.
Yeah I'd agree, and it's added real stability to our team.
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Westwood could be a Des Bremner type of player, not flashy, but gets the job done.
Someone else thinks he could play for England...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2757478/Tom-Huddlestone-Mark-Noble-Ashley-Westwood-fit-England-not-Lee-Cattermole.html
Not an article I agree with, I've long felt its Westwoods tracking back that is a particular weak point of our midfield, players just run off the back of him into the penalty area. The rest of his game isn't strong enough to make up for this.
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Westwood could be a Des Bremner type of player, not flashy, but gets the job done.
Someone else thinks he could play for England...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2757478/Tom-Huddlestone-Mark-Noble-Ashley-Westwood-fit-England-not-Lee-Cattermole.html
The only thing that piece fails to take into account is the fact that Mark Noble is wank.
I know his cousin. A blue nose with 'ZULU' tattooed onto his right calf.
Noble, Westwood, Bremner or Adrian Durham?
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Him and KEA together were wetter than a limp lettuce. He looks to have a bit more spunk in him now.
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Him and KEA together were wetter than a limp lettuce. He looks to have a bit more spunk in him now.
(http://rogermooresmovienation.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/williams.jpg)
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Him and KEA together were wetter than a limp lettuce. He looks to have a bit more spunk in him now.
(http://rogermooresmovienation.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/williams.jpg)
Not as much as he got though;-)
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Him and KEA together were wetter than a limp lettuce. He looks to have a bit more spunk in him now.
(http://rogermooresmovienation.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/williams.jpg)
Not as much as he got though;-)
Oh, Behave!
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Him and KEA together were wetter than a limp lettuce. He looks to have a bit more spunk in him now.
(http://rogermooresmovienation.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/williams.jpg)
Not as much as he got though;-)
Oh, Behave!
Ooh matron, he said spunk.
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The arrivals of Sanchez and Cleverley are only a good thing for Westy. It'll keep him on his toes and ensure he keeps his performance levels up.
Agree ST and that's how it should be. He has picked up since Sanchez arrived and probably knows that he needs to stay at that level to keep his place. He is suited to the defensive midfield spot and having Cleverley and Delph either side of him will help. I think having someone in an attacking midfield position would bring him on even more, as he is capable of threading passes through.
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Westwood could be a Des Bremner type of player, not flashy, but gets the job done.
Someone else thinks he could play for England...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2757478/Tom-Huddlestone-Mark-Noble-Ashley-Westwood-fit-England-not-Lee-Cattermole.html
The only thing that piece fails to take into account is the fact that Mark Noble is wank.
I know his cousin. A blue nose with 'ZULU' tattooed onto his right calf.
One of my favourite ever films when I was about 10 years old.
Not worth a tattoo though!
;-)
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Westwood could be a Des Bremner type of player, not flashy, but gets the job done.
Someone else thinks he could play for England...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2757478/Tom-Huddlestone-Mark-Noble-Ashley-Westwood-fit-England-not-Lee-Cattermole.html
Westwood and Huddlestone arent anywhere near the required level. If Wilshere's lack of mobility is getting exposed at international level, those two wont be any better. Pirlo or Alonso they arent.
Noble has been unlucky not to get any chance with England, a busy type of player comfortable taking the ball off the back from what Ive seen. 3 man midfield would suit him.
Cleverley and Sanchez coming in gives Westwood some much needed competition for a place now. Thought he offered zero against Newcastle but has improved in last two games.
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Westwood could be a Des Bremner type of player, not flashy, but gets the job done.
Someone else thinks he could play for England...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2757478/Tom-Huddlestone-Mark-Noble-Ashley-Westwood-fit-England-not-Lee-Cattermole.html
Westwood and Huddlestone arent anywhere near the required level. If Wilshere's lack of mobility is getting exposed at international level, those two wont be any better. Pirlo or Alonso they arent.
Noble has been unlucky not to get any chance with England, a busy type of player comfortable taking the ball off the back from what Ive seen. 3 man midfield would suit him.
Westwood is also three years younger than the other two and could easily develop into a better player than he is now.
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Westwood could be a Des Bremner type of player, not flashy, but gets the job done.
Someone else thinks he could play for England...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2757478/Tom-Huddlestone-Mark-Noble-Ashley-Westwood-fit-England-not-Lee-Cattermole.html
Westwood and Huddlestone arent anywhere near the required level. If Wilshere's lack of mobility is getting exposed at international level, those two wont be any better. Pirlo or Alonso they arent.
Noble has been unlucky not to get any chance with England, a busy type of player comfortable taking the ball off the back from what Ive seen. 3 man midfield would suit him.
Westwood is also three years younger than the other two and could easily develop into a better player than he is now.
And Mark Noble is wank.
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Harsh.
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Westwood could be a Des Bremner type of player, not flashy, but gets the job done.
Someone else thinks he could play for England...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2757478/Tom-Huddlestone-Mark-Noble-Ashley-Westwood-fit-England-not-Lee-Cattermole.html
Westwood and Huddlestone arent anywhere near the required level. If Wilshere's lack of mobility is getting exposed at international level, those two wont be any better. Pirlo or Alonso they arent.
Noble has been unlucky not to get any chance with England, a busy type of player comfortable taking the ball off the back from what Ive seen. 3 man midfield would suit him.
Westwood is also three years younger than the other two and could easily develop into a better player than he is now.
And Mark Noble is wank.
I just read your post, and thought "Mark Noble is wank, I've seen that phrase somewhere before" then a split second later, my eyes scanned downwards and I saw your signature.
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Westwood and Huddlestone arent anywhere near the required level.
How many England-pickable midfielders are good enough, though?
It's not a great selection.
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Westwood and Huddlestone arent anywhere near the required level.
How many England-pickable midfielders are good enough, though?
It's not a great selection.
And it's not exactly like they have top quality opposition to play in the qualifiers either. I suppose Carrick would be the favoured choice to play in the defensive midfield role if they continue with the diamond formation.
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Earlier in the week it was Baker and now Westwood's being tipped for England. There's something strange going on.
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Earlier in the week it was Baker and now Westwood's being tipped for England. There's something strange going on.
Baker tipped for England? I must have missed that, because that is absolutely bonkers. He played well on Saturday, but one good game does not make a good player.
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Earlier in the week it was Baker and now Westwood's being tipped for England. There's something strange going on.
Baker tipped for England? I must have missed that, because that is absolutely bonkers. He played well on Saturday, but one good game does not make a good player.
If they're English it normally does.
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Baker tipped for England? I must have missed that, because that is absolutely bonkers. He played well on Saturday, but one good game does not make a good player.
He had a superb game in a televised match against one of the SkyWank Teams, that's why.
The people (person?) saying that will not have seen or even cared about Nathan Baker before this game but he played great against the Mighty Liverpool therefore he's a shoo-in for England and obviously far too good for the likes of Aston Villa and will be ai Anfield by the end of January.
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Westwood and Huddlestone arent anywhere near the required level.
How many England-pickable midfielders are good enough, though?
It's not a great selection.
And it's not exactly like they have top quality opposition to play in the qualifiers either. I suppose Carrick would be the favoured choice to play in the defensive midfield role if they continue with the diamond formation.
Another wank IMO and past his best
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Westwood and Huddlestone arent anywhere near the required level.
How many England-pickable midfielders are good enough, though?
It's not a great selection.
And it's not exactly like they have top quality opposition to play in the qualifiers either. I suppose Carrick would be the favoured choice to play in the defensive midfield role if they continue with the diamond formation.
Another wank IMO and past his best
Any suggestions to add?
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New England side should be:
GK- Some prick from another club.
LB- Richardson
CB- Baker
CB- Some prick from another club
RB- Lowton
CM- Westwood
CM- Delph
CM- Cleverley
FW- Agbonlahor
FW- Bent
FW- Grealish
Subs-
A bunch of pricks from other clubs and Joe Cole.
Job done. Euro 2016 winners.
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New England side should be:
GK- Some prick from another club.
LB- Richardson
CB- Baker
CB- Some prick from another club
RB- Lowton
CM- Westwood
CM- Delph
CM- Cleverley
FW- Agbonlahor
FW- Bent
FW- Grealish
Subs-
A bunch of pricks from other clubs and Joe Cole.
Job done. Euro 2016 winners.
Teach me to read it properly next time:-)
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Baker tipped for England? I must have missed that, because that is absolutely bonkers. He played well on Saturday, but one good game does not make a good player.
He had a superb game in a televised match against one of the SkyWank Teams, that's why.
The people (person?) saying that will not have seen or even cared about Nathan Baker before this game but he played great against the Mighty Liverpool therefore he's a shoo-in for England and obviously far too good for the likes of Aston Villa and will be ai Anfield by the end of January.
He's theirs for £12m.
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New England side should be:
GK- Some prick from another club.
LB- Richardson
CB- Baker
CB- Some prick from another club
RB- Lowton
CM- Westwood
CM- Delph
CM- Cleverley
FW- Agbonlahor
FW- Bent
FW- Grealish
Subs-
A bunch of pricks from other clubs and Joe Cole.
Job done. Euro 2016 winners.
Teach me to read it properly next time:-)
Ha ha. There's no way I'd miss Grealish/Father Damo.
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Westwood and Huddlestone arent anywhere near the required level.
How many England-pickable midfielders are good enough, though?
It's not a great selection.
not a hectic selection alright, gone are the days when Becks, Lamps, Stevie G, Hargreaves, Scholesy, Nicky Butt and Trevor Sinclair were on the midfield roster. Then again they won f*ck all either
Lacking a deep midfielder to complement the energy of Henderson and Delph. Delph is a miles a better footballer than Henderson imo. Henderson is very limited if he has to drop deep on the ball as seen in the World Cup but is a good athlete. Milner if he leaves City would be a good bet to pick up the other role, thought he did well when coming on against Bayern and Switzerland. Wilshere will continue to be given every chance, think Jonjo Shelvey has plenty of ability. The rest are in the chasing pack, even our new man Cleverley might not have to do too much to get back into contention.
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not a hectic selection alright, gone are the days when Becks, Lamps, Stevie G, Hargreaves, Scholesy, Nicky Butt and Trevor Sinclair were on the midfield roster. Then again they won f*ck all either
Nicky Butt???
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New England side should be:
GK- Some prick from another club.
LB- Richardson
CB- Baker
CB- Some prick from another club
RB- Lowton
CM- Westwood
CM- Delph
CM- Cleverley
FW- Agbonlahor
FW- Bent
FW- Grealish
Subs-
A bunch of pricks from other clubs and Joe Cole.
Job done. Euro 2016 winners.
That team would get relegated to the Asian confederation
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New England side should be:
GK- Some prick from another club.
LB- Richardson
CB- Baker
CB- Some prick from another club
RB- Lowton
CM- Westwood
CM- Delph
CM- Cleverley
FW- Agbonlahor
FW- Bent
FW- Grealish
Subs-
A bunch of pricks from other clubs and Joe Cole.
Job done. Euro 2016 winners.
That team would get relegated to the Asian confederation
That team would so shame England, FIFA would arrange for the referendum result to be reversed.
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not a hectic selection alright, gone are the days when Becks, Lamps, Stevie G, Hargreaves, Scholesy, Nicky Butt and Trevor Sinclair were on the midfield roster. Then again they won f*ck all either
Nicky Butt???
;D wasnt he Pele's player of the 2002 World Cup?
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not a hectic selection alright, gone are the days when Becks, Lamps, Stevie G, Hargreaves, Scholesy, Nicky Butt and Trevor Sinclair were on the midfield roster. Then again they won f*ck all either
Nicky Butt???
;D wasnt he Pele's player of the 2002 World Cup?
Only when he was talking to the English press.
It would have been Miroslav Klose when talking to the Germans and Yoo Sang-Chul when he was chatting with the South Koreans.
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Westwood and Huddlestone arent anywhere near the required level.
How many England-pickable midfielders are good enough, though?
It's not a great selection.
not a hectic selection alright, gone are the days when Becks, Lamps, Stevie G, Hargreaves, Scholesy, Nicky Butt and Trevor Sinclair were on the midfield roster. Then again they won f*ck all either
Lacking a deep midfielder to complement the energy of Henderson and Delph. Delph is a miles a better footballer than Henderson imo. Henderson is very limited if he has to drop deep on the ball as seen in the World Cup but is a good athlete. Milner if he leaves City would be a good bet to pick up the other role, thought he did well when coming on against Bayern and Switzerland. Wilshere will continue to be given every chance, think Jonjo Shelvey has plenty of ability. The rest are in the chasing pack, even our new man Cleverley might not have to do too much to get back into contention.
Westwood and Huddlestone arent anywhere near the required level.
How many England-pickable midfielders are good enough, though?
It's not a great selection.
not a hectic selection alright, gone are the days when Becks, Lamps, Stevie G, Hargreaves, Scholesy, Nicky Butt and Trevor Sinclair were on the midfield roster. Then again they won f*ck all either
There is part of the problem with England though. The players are picked first and then a formation and way of playing is usually cobbled around that selection. I'd like to see them go the other way and decide on a formation and way of playing and then choose the players they feel will fit that style the best. I liked the look of the diamond against Switzerland and feel that might be the best way going forward.
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Good call tom, very true.
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Somebody thinks that they've watched Ashley Westwood before but they clearly haven't:
Adrian Durham in the Daily Heil (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2766102/Arsenal-fans-never-learn-Arsene-Wenger-does-not-deserve-credit.html)
...the Villa virus is so bad the training ground was due to be temporarily shut down this week. Midfielder Westwood was throwing up in the warm up and despite being named in the original XI he couldn’t start the game he was so ill. With him patrolling in front of the back four there is no way Ozil would have had such an easy day.
If Wenger is as shrewd as his supporters believe he is, he will have realised Westwood’s absence was the key to Arsenal’s victory.
Wenger might also work out for himself that Westwood is exactly the holding midfielder Arsenal need. Gilberto Silva left the Emirates in 2008 and Arsenal haven’t had a decent anchorman since.
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Somebody thinks that they've watched Ashley Westwood before but they clearly haven't:
Adrian Durham in the Daily Heil (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2766102/Arsenal-fans-never-learn-Arsene-Wenger-does-not-deserve-credit.html)
...the Villa virus is so bad the training ground was due to be temporarily shut down this week. Midfielder Westwood was throwing up in the warm up and despite being named in the original XI he couldn’t start the game he was so ill. With him patrolling in front of the back four there is no way Ozil would have had such an easy day.
If Wenger is as shrewd as his supporters believe he is, he will have realised Westwood’s absence was the key to Arsenal’s victory.
Wenger might also work out for himself that Westwood is exactly the holding midfielder Arsenal need. Gilberto Silva left the Emirates in 2008 and Arsenal haven’t had a decent anchorman since.
Anchorman you say?
(http://cdn.fusion.net/images/Culture/gty_anchorman_16x9_1600.jpg)
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Somebody thinks that they've watched Ashley Westwood before but they clearly haven't:
Adrian Durham in the Daily Heil (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2766102/Arsenal-fans-never-learn-Arsene-Wenger-does-not-deserve-credit.html)
...the Villa virus is so bad the training ground was due to be temporarily shut down this week. Midfielder Westwood was throwing up in the warm up and despite being named in the original XI he couldn’t start the game he was so ill. With him patrolling in front of the back four there is no way Ozil would have had such an easy day.
If Wenger is as shrewd as his supporters believe he is, he will have realised Westwood’s absence was the key to Arsenal’s victory.
Wenger might also work out for himself that Westwood is exactly the holding midfielder Arsenal need. Gilberto Silva left the Emirates in 2008 and Arsenal haven’t had a decent anchorman since.
You have to love part time fans. Westwood as a holding midfielder for a decent side. Baker for England.
Perhaps they are playing percentages. Throw enough leftfield names out there and eventually if one makes it they can go "See! I told ya!"
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Somebody thinks that they've watched Ashley Westwood before but they clearly haven't:
Adrian Durham in the Daily Heil (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2766102/Arsenal-fans-never-learn-Arsene-Wenger-does-not-deserve-credit.html)
...the Villa virus is so bad the training ground was due to be temporarily shut down this week. Midfielder Westwood was throwing up in the warm up and despite being named in the original XI he couldn’t start the game he was so ill. With him patrolling in front of the back four there is no way Ozil would have had such an easy day.
If Wenger is as shrewd as his supporters believe he is, he will have realised Westwood’s absence was the key to Arsenal’s victory.
Wenger might also work out for himself that Westwood is exactly the holding midfielder Arsenal need. Gilberto Silva left the Emirates in 2008 and Arsenal haven’t had a decent anchorman since.
You have to love part time fans. Westwood as a holding midfielder for a decent side. Baker for England.
Perhaps they are playing percentages. Throw enough leftfield names out there and eventually if one makes it they can go "See! I told ya!"
Transfer speculation. Twas ever thus.....
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Somebody thinks that they've watched Ashley Westwood before but they clearly haven't:
Adrian Durham in the Daily Heil (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2766102/Arsenal-fans-never-learn-Arsene-Wenger-does-not-deserve-credit.html)
...the Villa virus is so bad the training ground was due to be temporarily shut down this week. Midfielder Westwood was throwing up in the warm up and despite being named in the original XI he couldn’t start the game he was so ill. With him patrolling in front of the back four there is no way Ozil would have had such an easy day.
If Wenger is as shrewd as his supporters believe he is, he will have realised Westwood’s absence was the key to Arsenal’s victory.
Wenger might also work out for himself that Westwood is exactly the holding midfielder Arsenal need. Gilberto Silva left the Emirates in 2008 and Arsenal haven’t had a decent anchorman since.
Anchorman you say?
(http://cdn.fusion.net/images/Culture/gty_anchorman_16x9_1600.jpg)
Westwood is about as effective as sex panther.
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Somebody thinks that they've watched Ashley Westwood before but they clearly haven't:
Adrian Durham in the Daily Heil (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2766102/Arsenal-fans-never-learn-Arsene-Wenger-does-not-deserve-credit.html)
...the Villa virus is so bad the training ground was due to be temporarily shut down this week. Midfielder Westwood was throwing up in the warm up and despite being named in the original XI he couldn’t start the game he was so ill. With him patrolling in front of the back four there is no way Ozil would have had such an easy day.
If Wenger is as shrewd as his supporters believe he is, he will have realised Westwood’s absence was the key to Arsenal’s victory.
Wenger might also work out for himself that Westwood is exactly the holding midfielder Arsenal need. Gilberto Silva left the Emirates in 2008 and Arsenal haven’t had a decent anchorman since.
You have to love part time fans. Westwood as a holding midfielder for a decent side. Baker for England.
Perhaps they are playing percentages. Throw enough leftfield names out there and eventually if one makes it they can go "See! I told ya!"
I suspect "journos" are used by players and agents to get themselves into the public eye re moves, international call-ups. Especially back in Sven's day every player seemed to get a chance at an international call up even Jlloyd samuel. Handy bargaining chip for pay rises etc
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I'll be contrary and say that his form in the back part of his first season was awesome. I was convinced that Man U would come calling, looking for a replacement for Carrick. On that basis, I find the suggestion a lot less ridiculous.
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Westwood has potential and has survived last season because of it.
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He's been excellent this season. I'm a big fan.
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I'll be contrary and say that his form in the back part of his first season was awesome. I was convinced that Man U would come calling, looking for a replacement for Carrick. On that basis, I find the suggestion a lot less ridiculous.
Agreed - after his first season I said that he would be at Old Trafford within 2-3 years....
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He's been excellent this season. I'm a big fan.
I've always got the impression that Lambert is a big fan as well. I think he might see something of himself and the type of player he was in Westwood.
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On that basis, I find the suggestion a lot less ridiculous.
I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest that he is a good player - he clearly is.
It's the suggestion that a section of the press seems to think that he is an all-action, tough-tackling midfielder of the type that Arsenal need.
Rather than a slightly built, metronomic, pass-it-simply midfielder that Arsenal could probably put together a whole team of already.
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He's been excellent this season. I'm a big fan.
I've always got the impression that Lambert is a big fan as well.
He picks him for every game so i reckon you're right. I'm not a massive fan of him but i don't dislike him either.
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Yeah, he's just "there", isn't he? Which is fine as long as he doesn't go missing like he was wont to do when him and El Ahmadi worked together.
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Previous he was pretty static, didn't get forward much but didn't track runners either. He's covering a lot more ground this season and playing with more bite, which I suspect may have something to do with a certain Mr Keane.
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Yes his increased mobility this season has added a lot to his and the team's perfomances. He's not letting people run beyond him and he's shielding the defence, whilst also making some intelligent runs forward.
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His absence against Arsenal showed how valuable he is to this team. Our whole midfield was lost. I start getting why Lambert values him so high and keep praises him. That calm short simple passing deep in our midfield that he offers in addition to his great workrate and decent defending and covering...... I think he is a key player
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His absence against Arsenal showed how valuable he is to this team. Our whole midfield was lost. I start getting why Lambert values him so high and keep praises him. That calm short simple passing deep in our midfield that he offers in addition to his great workrate and decent defending and covering...... I think he is a key player
The sum of the parts is greater than the whole and all that seems to be the thinking with Lambert...
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His absence against Arsenal showed how valuable he is to this team. Our whole midfield was lost. I start getting why Lambert values him so high and keep praises him. That calm short simple passing deep in our midfield that he offers in addition to his great workrate and decent defending and covering...... I think he is a key player
The new Petrov then. We only realised how important he was in the games where he wasn't playing and ultimately when he sadly had to retire.
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His absence against Arsenal showed how valuable he is to this team. Our whole midfield was lost. I start getting why Lambert values him so high and keep praises him. That calm short simple passing deep in our midfield that he offers in addition to his great workrate and decent defending and covering...... I think he is a key player
They looked just as lost today against top class opposition as they did against Arsenal, and Westwood was playing.
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Poor delivery from him today.
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Cleverley took some decent set pieces last week so would like to see them alternate v City.
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Cleverley took some decent set pieces last week so would like to see them alternate v City.
Agree. Don't want to get into Ashley Young territory insisting he takes everything.
When we finally play teams who haven't spent incredible amounts of money, I think Westwood, Cleverley and Delph will look quite a smart midfield. You could see them passing it quite well at times today.
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Yeah I think they're a decent threesome. But they're a bit samey. You need penetration from the two playing with benteke. Weimann and gabby aren't good enough on the ball
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Yeah I think they're a decent threesome. But they're a bit samey. You need penetration from the two playing with benteke. Weimann and gabby aren't good enough on the ball
Delph's got a bit of variety in that he can run at players a bit, but none of them exactly create very much or trouble the scorers very often. Need more quality from the three of them. OK they didn't cost a gazillion pounds like the Chelsea players, but Delph is now an England player and Cleverley has come from Man U where Ferguson rated him, so I'd expect to see a bit more quality.
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Poor delivery from him today.
I thought it was a bit of a mixed bag. Yes, there were some poor deliveries but there were a couple of good set-pieces too like his free kick that Baker headed onto the roof of the net.
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Good player and think after this little run the midfield will start to flourish, especially when they have something to aim at up front with Benteke coming back.
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I am willing to give them a few games after this ridiculous run to see how they bed down, but 2-3 times today they played some very neat, fast moving forward football that got us onto the front foot, so I can see it working well. Also, Cleverley did have a a decent eye for goal in his loan spells, so lets see if we can get a bit of that out of him.
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Hes fantastic at pointing.For all 3 goals he spots the run, points to another player to cover the run, and stand about do nothing.
If he is supposed to be a defensive midfielder then he needs to do his job properly.
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Hes fantastic at pointing.For all 3 goals he spots the run, points to another player to cover the run, and stand about do nothing.
If he is supposed to be a defensive midfielder then he needs to do his job properly.
Up until yesterday he had been in fairness. I did chuckle when I saw him point at a player yesterday and thought track him then!
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Hes fantastic at pointing.For all 3 goals he spots the run, points to another player to cover the run, and stand about do nothing.
If he is supposed to be a defensive midfielder then he needs to do his job properly.
He's been doing that since he first joined. He's an expert at it.
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I have no doubt he went to and graduated with top honours from the Frank Lampard School for Pointing Excellence.
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I have no doubt he went to and graduated with top honours from the Frank Lampard School for Pointing Excellence.
Second in his class only to Jack Wilshere.
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Hes fantastic at pointing.For all 3 goals he spots the run, points to another player to cover the run, and stand about do nothing.
If he is supposed to be a defensive midfielder then he needs to do his job properly.
He's been doing that since he first joined. He's an expert at it.
Shades of Flashman ( when playing Rugby ) ? ..........................Godzvilla!
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Westwood and Mark Kinsella, the Pointer Sisters. Don't we have Kinsella Jr on our books (along with little Sid)?
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Kinsella Jr plays for Walsall. There is Lewis Kinsella who plays in the yoofs, not sure he's a relation.
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Taken from a recent interview.
'...I would have come here for nothing,' says Westwood. 'In fact I didn't even know how much I was getting until after I'd signed the contract and started reading it. I just wanted to play Premier League football.'
How refreshing.
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Have always thought Westwood was a real player and just needed the right compliment of players around him. With Delph and cleverleys tireless running and jacks willingness to come for the ball we are starting to see it. I have always thought of him as the next Michael Carrick. Another player whose development waned due to Lamberts anti football
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I agree with the Carrick remark. At the risk of getting laughed at, I've thought that if he could consistently play to the best of his ability he would be playing for England. If he did and we signed Cleverley, we could conceivably have a midfield full of England internationals.
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Kinsella Jr plays for Walsall. There is Lewis Kinsella who plays in the yoofs, not sure he's a relation.
Pretty sure I saw an article recently that said the Kinsella who plays for Walsall was Mark's lad...which Lewis is too...so brothers!
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I like Westwood and the carrick comparison is valid. Difference is carrick is 6 foot plus and can do the defensive side better than Westwood (as well as being better overall). I'd definitely keep him tho. In a three alongside delph and cleverley he's definitely mid table premier league standard
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I like westwood , he is the "water carrier" type. You need someone like that.
Equally whilst Sanchez has been trying to adapt this season I have very high hopes for him next year in a similar role, more physical prescense and the ability to play out.
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New 5-year deal just confirmed by the club.
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Congratulations Ashley.
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Good news. There is a player there, in the right system.
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Hes fantastic at pointing.For all 3 goals he spots the run, points to another player to cover the run, and stand about do nothing.
If he is supposed to be a defensive midfielder then he needs to do his job properly.
Everytime... this is what I always see, passing the buck...
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For me, Westy is just a solid pro. Good to have in the squad but a position that Villa should be looking to upgrade
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I think he's a good player, but needs to be made to work at a higher tempo.
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I like Westwood.
Considering the step up he has made from Crewe, and the way the team has been set up to (not) play over the last 2 years I think he's developed very well.
He's our Mr.Dependable, and now with better players around him, and with better coaching, I think he will prove to be a great asset to the club.
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5 years, really? I think he needs to up his game and be a lot more than a basic water carrier, he doesn't impose himself on games nearly enough.
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I think he is more talented than he appears at times and also think he has more ability in an attacking sense than we use at the moment. He is solid and dependable though. If Wilkins and Sherwood can teach him to track a run he might become even better.
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Delighted. Been lucky enough to watch him develop from his crewe days (I go with my Dad to Crewe every now and then) and was really pleased we signed him. Accurate passer, always making space for himself, and his understanding where other players are is terrific. hard working, underrated player that does a great deal for the team. Well done mate
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5 years, really? I think he needs to up his game and be a lot more than a basic water carrier, he doesn't impose himself on games nearly enough.
I'm kind of on the same page. The 5 year thing just protects us on a young player. We are clearly not making the Delph mistake again which is fine. Frankly had it been 3 or 4 the opinion on him would be the same. He's a little too vanilla for me. Nothing special but does the job when asked but you're not overly excited by what he brings. I hope he finds another notch or two to his game which he still has time to do. Every squad though needs Westwood type players who are good professionals and represent the club well on and off the field.
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5 years, really? I think he needs to up his game and be a lot more than a basic water carrier, he doesn't impose himself on games nearly enough.
I think that is harsh. Watch the Liverpool semi-final again, he was superb in that game.
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Good news. I always like him.
Hope he plays extremely well this season and replace someone in the England squad.
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Can I ask those of you who don't rate westwood, what you make of Michael carrick?
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Always liked Westwood and glad he's sticking around for 5 more years. Does a lot of the unseen work and decent on the ball - one of Lambert's better signings and I want to see what he can do with better players around him.
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Can I ask those of you who don't rate westwood, what you make of Michael carrick?
A better version of Ashley Westwood?
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Can I ask those of you who don't rate westwood, what you make of Michael carrick?
A better version of Ashley Westwood?
An older version more like. I reckon he will make the England Squad. And id love it to be at the expense of some shit arse from City
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I think he is more talented than he appears at times and also think he has more ability in an attacking sense than we use at the moment. He is solid and dependable though. If Wilkins and Sherwood can teach him to track a run he might become even better.
Agreed, though I do think that mentioning his failure to track runs now appears to be the only way we concede goals. He could be better, but then there are a number of regular features of our defending and what we do when we lose possession that we could mention - Westwood and not tracking runs is very much 'on trend' at the moment.
I wouldn't say he is great, but he is good and capable of getting better and he does what is asked of him - as shown when Sherwood arrived and he moved the ball quicker and more often forwards. I would say his improvement in performance and effectiveness was greater than was seen (briefly) from the Manc who went to Blue Scouse.
Not losing possession so cheaply would be a good thing to improve on and Westwood has a really good habit of passing to someone in the same kit. I would suggest he also makes more interceptions than is the norm for our midfield (decent positional sense and discipline perhaps).
Not being out of position is also a good idea if you want to avoid too many goals conceded to quick counter-attacks. Whilst it is not his job to get around the pitch and play an advanced role, he is decent at holding is position and if he is the defensive shield then you could argue others should be tracking runners.
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5 years, really? I think he needs to up his game and be a lot more than a basic water carrier, he doesn't impose himself on games nearly enough.
I think that is harsh. Watch the Liverpool semi-final again, he was superb in that game.
Watch the Liverpool goal again. Classic Ashley Westwood.
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Good news in a sense as I really rate him. Not sure we need to commit for 5-years though.
I can only assume that 1. the club/manager really rate him* and 2. the club are anticipating a spike in wages once the new TV deal in in full force so want to secure the majority of players on long deals.
*This is pleasing as Westwood, in interviews, comes across as a player who lacks self confidence. If Sherwood can make him feel ten feet tall then he could fulfil his potential. In which case we will be laughing.
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5 years, really? I think he needs to up his game and be a lot more than a basic water carrier, he doesn't impose himself on games nearly enough.
I think that is harsh. Watch the Liverpool semi-final again, he was superb in that game.
Watch the Liverpool goal again. Classic Ashley Westwood.
He tracked his man and then Okore gave the ball away and Delph fluffed his clearance.
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5 years, well done Villa a good player and only going to get better.
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Can I ask those of you who don't rate westwood, what you make of Michael carrick?
Carrick Is the benchmark for this role of holding mid and play maker. Westwood is not in the same league at present yet I hope now he has better players around him he will have the confidence and experience to now go up a level.
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5 years, really? I think he needs to up his game and be a lot more than a basic water carrier, he doesn't impose himself on games nearly enough.
I think that is harsh. Watch the Liverpool semi-final again, he was superb in that game.
Watch the Liverpool goal again. Classic Ashley Westwood.
That was all about Okore surely?
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Whilst I find westwood hard to dislike , he's been part and parcel of a truly rubbish villa team for 3 years. New contract notwithstanding he needs to up his game now.
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Whilst I find westwood hard to dislike , he's been part and parcel of a truly rubbish villa team for 3 years. New contract notwithstanding he needs to up his game now.
Any player who put their boot on that FA Cup final pitch has a shit load of making up to do. Not least AW.
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Whilst I find westwood hard to dislike , he's been part and parcel of a truly rubbish villa team for 3 years.
So were Benteke and Delph.
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Whilst I find westwood hard to dislike , he's been part and parcel of a truly rubbish villa team for 3 years.
So were Benteke and Delph.
Ah yes... The much mooted 'spine.' Minus Dumbo of course...
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Must be a pretty much win always round for us, assuming it's for reasonable wages.
As with Clark,
either he continues to be a valuable member of the the first team = great deal,
or
he never progresses further than now and remains as a competent squad member without reaching the stupid situation we were in with the likes of Beye
or
he moves in 12-18 months and we get a decent fee due to the length of contract
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"Any player who wants to get in the team ahead of Ashley Westwood will have to be a very good player"
Not my words, but those of Tim Sherwood
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"Any player who wants to get in the team ahead of Ashley Westwood will have to be a very good player"
Not my words, but those of Tim Sherwood
Hopefully we're signing some 'very good players...'
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He's very under-rated, as so many who play that position are. Given his age and how poor the team around him has been, it will be interesting to see him start to mature as a footballer and have better players around him.
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Whilst I find westwood hard to dislike , he's been part and parcel of a truly rubbish villa team for 3 years.
So were Benteke and Delph.
Absolutely.
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Potentially a very good player, occasionally a good player. Too often disappears from games. He needs to be getting more assists really. If he's to remain as a first choice he's got to up his game and find more consistency and start influencing games more. Sherwood is right in wanting to see Westwood improve. I think he's still got a bit part to play and 5 years for someone his age isn't out of the ordinary. I'm not against it as we could well cash in next summer if he's not pushed on.
This is a big season for Westwood as well as a few other long termers here.
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Must be a pretty much win always round for us, assuming it's for reasonable wages.
As with Clark,
either he continues to be a valuable member of the the first team = great deal,
or
he never progresses further than now and remains as a competent squad member without reaching the stupid situation we were in with the likes of Beye
or
he moves in 12-18 months and we get a decent fee due to the length of contract
Agree, As I've said before we needed to look at the senior squad and decide who was capable of stepping up a level and then give them a chance to do so, Westwood was right near the top of my list along with Clark so I'm really happy we've got them both on long contracts. I also had Bacuna, Sanchez and Grealish and I expected Gil to get a chance as well. After that there's no outfield players I looked at and thought of as must keep and it seems that Sherwood largely agreed other than he seems to have wanted Baker in the group as well.
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The way I see it the 5 year deal secures us money if or when we upgrade him. Big season.
He will either kick on now or go the way of Weimann, lowton etc and we can get £2-3m for him.
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"Any player who wants to get in the team ahead of Ashley Westwood will have to be a very good player"
Not my words, but those of Tim Sherwood
I like that. Just the sort of boost Westwood needs. Also challenges the likes of Sanchez to up their game.
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Potentially a very good player, occasionally a good player. Too often disappears from games. He needs to be getting more assists really. If he's to remain as a first choice he's got to up his game and find more consistency and start influencing games more. Sherwood is right in wanting to see Westwood improve. I think he's still got a bit part to play and 5 years for someone his age isn't out of the ordinary. I'm not against it as we could well cash in next summer if he's not pushed on.
This is a big season for Westwood as well as a few other long termers here.
Didn't he get half a dozen or so in his first season? Assists are kind of hard to come by for a deep-lying player in a so-so team, but if he gets his set piece deliveries right, he should get plenty with Rudy in the team.
Do agree that it's really important if he wants to take the step up that he improves his passing in general play though - do that bit enough and the lack of athleticism won't even be an issue. All of the best sitting midfielders are penetrating in their passing, but Westwood isn't quite there yet.
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A 5 year deal seems too long for Westwood but haven't we now got a contract specialist as part of the backroom staff which presumably means these new contracts should all be being made with the best interests of the club at heart covering a number of scenarios.
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A 5 year deal seems too long for Westwood but haven't we now got a contract specialist as part of the backroom staff which presumably means these new contracts should all be being made with the best interests of the club at heart covering a number of scenarios.
See my previous post. Don't see how the club can lose on this one.
Worst case, he'll appeal to someone like Derby or Fulham in the Championship in 12 months time, and in the meantime we've got a sensible squad member on presumably sensible wages. If we've wafted a £50K p/w contract under his nose that's something else, but there's nothing to suggest that.
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It's a win win as he will either remain squad players when our new signings flourish or he will progress this season towards an England cap and we will be delighted.
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Whilst I find westwood hard to dislike , he's been part and parcel of a truly rubbish villa team for 3 years.
So were Benteke and Delph.
Absolutely.
?
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Westwood reminds me a bit of Petrov in his first couple of seasons. The only difference is at the moment, when Westwood is out we don't particularly miss him that much. All that said, i'm glad he's signed on because he can improve.
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"Any player who wants to get in the team ahead of Ashley Westwood will have to be a very good player"
Not my words, but those of Tim Sherwood
I like that. Just the sort of boost Westwood needs. Also challenges the likes of Sanchez to up their game.
I think the reason TS likes him is because he follows his instructions to the letter. If he's told to "sit, keep it simple" that's what he'll do.
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It's a win win as he will either remain squad players when our new signings flourish or he will progress this season towards an England cap and we will be delighted.
Maybe he will get the chance with the snake getting splinters in his arse. That would be priceless!
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I really like Westy. Good footballer, comfortable on the ball, makes himself available, good passing, tries hard. With better midfielders and wide players around him he'll get better and better. I also think the system, style and coaching will improve now, and he will too. He's done fantastic to step up from Crewe to the Premiership.
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Taken from a recent interview.
'...I would have come here for nothing,' says Westwood. 'In fact I didn't even know how much I was getting until after I'd signed the contract and started reading it. I just wanted to play Premier League football.'
How refreshing.
Quite
Always thought that with the right players around him he was a carbon copy of Carrick. With gifted players around him he is the tempo setter for midfield and moves the ball very well indeed
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Sanchez on a bad day is a much better option than Westwood.
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Sanchez on a bad day is a much better option than Westwood.
Having seen Sanchez on a bad day, that's a very wrong statement.
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Sanchez on a bad day is a much better option than Westwood.
Sanchez on a bad day plays like a pissed up puppeteer is controlling him.
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Sanchez on a bad day is a much better option than Westwood.
Football is about opinions, and sometimes those opinions are plain wrong.
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Sanchez on a bad day is a much better option than Westwood.
Errrr...no.
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Sanchez on a bad day is a much better option than Westwood.
I like Sanchez, he's first pick sitting midfielder in one of the best teams in the world. But I've never seen Westwood play anywhere near as bad as Sanchez at Arsenal (0-5).
You didn't mean Arsenal's Sanchez did you?
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I'll say one thing for Sanchez, judging by the photo he's just posted on Instagram and twitter, his Mrs is absolutely stunning.
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I think there's too much negativity around someone who supposedly is a fingerpointer. Yes, there are those who stand and point as a means to a general lack of ability end. But there are those who are organisers. That understand and can organise a team to be set up to be difficult to break down. A point can get a player to stand in a specific spot on a pitch simply to get that space covered. that stops the attacking team advancing into that area. it really is very much like a chess game with many many more variables. If a player can read a game and knows how to organise a team then standing and pointing is more of a skill then many know, and is not one that can be taught.
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Sanchez on a bad day is a much better option than Westwood.
That's one of the silliest things I've ever seen on here.
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Sanchez on a bad day is a much better option than Westwood.
I like Sanchez, he's first pick sitting midfielder in one of the best teams in the world. But I've never seen Westwood play anywhere near as bad as Sanchez at Arsenal (0-5).
You didn't mean Arsenal's Sanchez did you?
I forgot about that humiliating defeat at the hands of Arsenal. I wonder why!
Let's change it to Sanchez on an average day then ;D
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Sanchez on a bad day is a much better option than Westwood.
I like Sanchez, he's first pick sitting midfielder in one of the best teams in the world. But I've never seen Westwood play anywhere near as bad as Sanchez at Arsenal (0-5).
You didn't mean Arsenal's Sanchez did you?
I forgot about that humiliating defeat at the hands of Arsenal. I wonder why!
Let's change it to Sanchez on an average day then ;D
The problem with that is I'm not sure we've seen Sanchez have too many days that are even average so far at Villa.
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Sanchez has had some shockers for us, so bad that we'd have been better off with only 10 men and him off the ptich. I can't recall Westwood ever being that bad for us despite playing 3x as many games. He's been ineffective etc, but never a liability like Sanchez.
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Sanchez has had some shockers for us, so bad that we'd have been better off with only 10 men and him off the ptich. I can't recall Westwood ever being that bad for us despite playing 3x as many games. He's been ineffective etc, but never a liability like Sanchez.
I agree PWS - Sanchez at times has looked like an accident waiting to happen, Westwood whilst not being the best midfield player around always seems to give 100% and never looks disinterested - on last season's showing I would pick Westwood ahead of Sanchez any day.
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Sanchez has had some shockers for us, so bad that we'd have been better off with only 10 men and him off the ptich. I can't recall Westwood ever being that bad for us despite playing 3x as many games. He's been ineffective etc, but never a liability like Sanchez.
But Westwood never tries to tackle anybody, because he he usually several yards away from them. The comparison is invidious.
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Sanchez has had some shockers for us, so bad that we'd have been better off with only 10 men and him off the ptich. I can't recall Westwood ever being that bad for us despite playing 3x as many games. He's been ineffective etc, but never a liability like Sanchez.
But Westwood never tries to tackle anybody, because he he usually several yards away from them. The comparison is invidious.
I'd hardly say Sanchez is the best "tackler" in the world
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Sanchez has had some shockers for us, so bad that we'd have been better off with only 10 men and him off the ptich. I can't recall Westwood ever being that bad for us despite playing 3x as many games. He's been ineffective etc, but never a liability like Sanchez.
But Westwood never tries to tackle anybody, because he he usually several yards away from them. The comparison is invidious.
I'd hardly say Sanchez is the best "tackler" in the world
Who is the best "tackler" in the game, in your opinion? And do you think "tackling" is even necessary? And what would you consider is a "tackle"?
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Sanchez has had some shockers for us, so bad that we'd have been better off with only 10 men and him off the ptich. I can't recall Westwood ever being that bad for us despite playing 3x as many games. He's been ineffective etc, but never a liability like Sanchez.
But Westwood never tries to tackle anybody, because he he usually several yards away from them. The comparison is invidious.
Sanchez averages 1 more tackle per game than Westwood.
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and what about successful passes ?
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Pretty similar stats for passing. Both at 83-84% success on average.
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I still feel Westwood can improve, can't say the same about Sanchez (although I'd love him to prove me wrong).
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Sanchez has had some shockers for us, so bad that we'd have been better off with only 10 men and him off the ptich. I can't recall Westwood ever being that bad for us despite playing 3x as many games. He's been ineffective etc, but never a liability like Sanchez.
But Westwood never tries to tackle anybody, because he he usually several yards away from them. The comparison is invidious.
Sanchez averages 1 more tackle per game than Westwood.
I think TS is in your camp on this issue at the moment, PWS. I have long thought that we need 1, if not 2 strong DCMs. Westwood is good as what he does, but he is not a DCM in the way I see the role. We shall see.
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Is this not all to do with us playing more of a 4-3-3 so far this season?
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I like them both and think they can both be assets for us, my original comment was more that there were times Sanchez was a liability, I don't think Westwood ever has been one. Both do need to improve though.
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I still feel Westwood can improve, can't say the same about Sanchez (although I'd love him to prove me wrong).
I don't think Sanchez can improve technically, but he can get up to speed with the game here more and improve his performances.
Watching him in the Copa America convinced me he's a player worth sticking with, don't mean to go on about it but he was colossal against Brazil and I've never thought that about Westwood.
I like Sanchez and think he could offer something a bit different to the team in terms of a physical presence in the middle. That said I can see why people rate Westwood higher based on Villa performances, and I'm not sure that both of them will start for us too often.
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I still feel Westwood can improve, can't say the same about Sanchez (although I'd love him to prove me wrong).
I don't think Sanchez can improve technically, but he can get up to speed with the game here more and improve his performances.
Watching him in the Copa America convinced me he's a player worth sticking with, don't mean to go on about it but he was colossal against Brazil and I've never thought that about Westwood.
I like Sanchez and think he could offer something a bit different to the team in terms of a physical presence in the middle. That said I can see why people rate Westwood higher based on Villa performances, and I'm not sure that both of them will start for us too often.
I think that's the key point - with our style of play at the moment, it's hard to see how both would get a starting place assuming we're not struggling with injuries etc...
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I still feel Westwood can improve, can't say the same about Sanchez (although I'd love him to prove me wrong).
I don't think Sanchez can improve technically, but he can get up to speed with the game here more and improve his performances.
Watching him in the Copa America convinced me he's a player worth sticking with, don't mean to go on about it but he was colossal against Brazil and I've never thought that about Westwood.
I like Sanchez and think he could offer something a bit different to the team in terms of a physical presence in the middle. That said I can see why people rate Westwood higher based on Villa performances, and I'm not sure that both of them will start for us too often.
I think that's the key point - with our style of play at the moment, it's hard to see how both would get a starting place assuming we're not struggling with injuries etc...
True.
4-2-3-1 does not seem the Timah way.
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I still feel Westwood can improve, can't say the same about Sanchez (although I'd love him to prove me wrong).
I don't think Sanchez can improve technically, but he can get up to speed with the game here more and improve his performances.
Watching him in the Copa America convinced me he's a player worth sticking with, don't mean to go on about it but he was colossal against Brazil and I've never thought that about Westwood.
I like Sanchez and think he could offer something a bit different to the team in terms of a physical presence in the middle. That said I can see why people rate Westwood higher based on Villa performances, and I'm not sure that both of them will start for us too often.
I think that's the key point - with our style of play at the moment, it's hard to see how both would get a starting place assuming we're not struggling with injuries etc...
True.
4-2-3-1 does not seem the Timah way.
But he has spoken about playing with different styles. Having a double shield with quick attacking players would set us up to play on the counter attack, and Sanchez is used to playing in this kind of system for Colombia I think.
Say we're playing against Man City, I'd like to see Sanchez as he breaks the game up and would maybe disrupt Silva a bit more.
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Who is the best "tackler" in the game, in your opinion? And do you think "tackling" is even necessary? And what would you consider is a "tackle"?
I was reading an article on the rise of belgian football and unsurprisingly their improvement is largely credited to an overhaul of youth football - countrywide tactics/coaching etc etc. Anyway tackling is banned from youth football in belgium instead they concentrate on interceptions and shepherding players away from dangerous areas.
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The big problem with Sanchez is his inconsistency, and the spectrum of it. It's not that he's good in some games and not so good in others, it's that he's very good in some games and absolutely appalling in others, such as Arsenal and QPR away.
There's obviously a very capable player in there though, so it'll be a test of Sherwood and Wilkins' coaching ability to get the best out of him.
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Tacking is definitely much less prevalent. It's mostly about interceptions nowadays.
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The big problem with Sanchez is his inconsistency, and the spectrum of it. It's not that he's good in some games and not so good in others, it's that he's very good in some games and absolutely appalling in others, such as Arsenal and QPR away.
There's obviously a very capable player in there though, so it'll be a test of Sherwood and Wilkins' coaching ability to get the best out of him.
That's pretty indicative to me of the standard adjustment period to the BPL tempo from a player used to more technical play. I wouldn't be surprised if the gap between his best and worst slims by a fair margin this season.
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Possibly, although his performance at Arsenal was largely ruined by conceding possession time and time again when under little or no pressure.
I think games like tonight’s are where Sanchez should really be proving his worth. Against a team that’s likely to feature Rooney as the highest player up the pitch, they’re going to be looking to play a lot of football in-between or midfield and defence.
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This not bene posted yet? Worth reading.
In praise of Ashley Westwood
http://football.chrisnee.co.uk/2015/08/aston-villas-ashley-westwood-rewarded.html
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This not bene posted yet? Worth reading.
In praise of Ashley Westwood
http://football.chrisnee.co.uk/2015/08/aston-villas-ashley-westwood-rewarded.html
He's done well, and he's one of those unnoticed players that just ticks along. I just feel there needs to be another gear to his game that chips in with a few more goals. Maybe if the other midfielders get to do their job effectively then in essence Westwood is already doing his.
Anyway, funny in that article regarding the ever accurate shit stirrer that is James Nursey.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3201839/Premier-League-managers-need-proper-scouting-lower-divisions-instead-looking-overseas-signings.html
An interesting article from Adrian Durham, who often sings Westwood's praises. I'm not sure I agree with it though. The fact that Westwood is the only example that he can come-up with perhaps suggests that it's the exception to the rule and that Sherwood has a more valid point. Also, doesn't really account for the fact that Westwood has been a mainstay in a side that's been hanging onto its Premier League status by the skin of its teeth ever since he's been in it.
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Pretty similar stats for passing. Both at 83-84% success on average.
Lies. Damned Lies. Etc
That doesn't show where the passes were made, where the recipient of the pass was on the pitch, were the passes backwards, sideways, or going forward. Was the pass made at a stretch trying to clear up a wayward pass to either Sanchez or Westwood, was the pass a decent one but intercepted because the other player was on his heels etc etc I very rarely look at the stats because they can never show the true picture.
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Statistics are like mini-skirts. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.
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Statistics are like mini-skirts. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.
Wow. You've made me feel quite aroused.
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Pretty similar stats for passing. Both at 83-84% success on average.
Lies. Damned Lies. Etc
That doesn't show where the passes were made, where the recipient of the pass was on the pitch, were the passes backwards, sideways, or going forward. Was the pass made at a stretch trying to clear up a wayward pass to either Sanchez or Westwood, was the pass a decent one but intercepted because the other player was on his heels etc etc I very rarely look at the stats because they can never show the true picture.
Agree. For the most part during Lambert's vision of possession football period last season it was lovely triangles between defence and midfield in our own half. Everyone's stats for passing improved I would imagine apart from Guzan who by the time it came back to him it was just a hoof.
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Its similar to successful crosses. A great cross may be made to look bad because of the useless lump trying to make a success of jumping in the air. Plus, it doesn't register a great bit of defending that just with strained neck sinews gets a touch onto a ball that stops a goal. It then may or may not result in a corner or the ball landing at someone's feet which in turn leads to a goal. Plus a successful cross may be an over hit or under hit attempt that goes to another player in the same team that tidies up the mess but it becomes 'successful'.
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A prime example of how misleading stats can be was Arsenal's opener against Palace at the weekend. Officially Ozil will be given the assist for Giroud's goal, but the cross itself was poor, behind Giroud, and only converted because of Giroud's brilliant finish.
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Still not totally convinced about Westwood. Think he's solid but hasn't really progressed too much over the last three years.
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I'm not a massive fan of his but I think he's been pretty decent in the first two games.
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We will learn more about westwood in the next 4 games. All winnable.
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He reminds me of Petrov.
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Not sure we will learn much about Westwood. He will be solid, keep the ball moving and look generally accomplished. We might learn more about Vetout and possibly Sanchez.
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He reminds me of Petrov.
Not in the same league Imho , in fact not even close.
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Still not totally convinced about Westwood. Think he's solid but hasn't really progressed too much over the last three years.
To be honest, I can't really see him getting much better from this point. We're going to need better if we are to going to progress.
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We will learn more about westwood in the next 4 games. All winnable.
all games are winnable*
*smashes head against nearest wall
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all games are winnable*
*Said Alex McLeish never.
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He reminds me of Petrov.
Not in the same league Imho , in fact not even close.
Let's not revise everything because of the circumstances of Stan quitting the game but he wasn't that good and in fact below average for a season and half.
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He reminds me of Petrov.
Not in the same league Imho , in fact not even close.
Let's not revise everything because of the circumstances of Stan quitting the game but he wasn't that good and in fact below average for a season and half.
Jesus, this one again. Regardless of that, he's a league or two above Ashley Westwood .
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3201839/Premier-League-managers-need-proper-scouting-lower-divisions-instead-looking-overseas-signings.html
An interesting article from Adrian Durham, who often sings Westwood's praises. I'm not sure I agree with it though. The fact that Westwood is the only example that he can come-up with perhaps suggests that it's the exception to the rule and that Sherwood has a more valid point. Also, doesn't really account for the fact that Westwood has been a mainstay in a side that's been hanging onto its Premier League status by the skin of its teeth ever since he's been in it.
Christ that articles a joke on many levels
Ibe's hardly a difficult find for instance if he's in the England under 17 set up
and it's like he doesn't realise each club has scouts who concentrate on each region/league. It's not as though theres one scout at each club, and they're spending only 10% of their time looking at the english leagues
I think Westwood's an okay player, but i'd prefer to see Gueye and Sanchez sitting behind Gil in a midfield 3 i think.
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Hopefully it will prove that he's got better players around him that can help him step up. There's been times where I thought he was an England player in the making but that's when he's been at his best and being talked about with England in mind can only happen if he achieves those levels on a consistent basis.
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He reminds me of Petrov.
Not in the same league Imho , in fact not even close.
Let's not revise everything because of the circumstances of Stan quitting the game but he wasn't that good and in fact below average for a season and half.
For a lot of that time he was played out of position out wide wasn't he?
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We will learn more about westwood in the next 4 games. All winnable.
Why the next four games? Why not the next couple of season's?
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It's an unsung role, nothing glamorous or earth-shattering happens. He just takes the ball from the defence, distributes it, keeps the ball moving and covers in front of defence.
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He reminds me of Petrov.
Not in the same league Imho , in fact not even close.
Let's not revise everything because of the circumstances of Stan quitting the game but he wasn't that good and in fact below average for a season and half.
For a lot of that time he was played out of position out wide wasn't he?
I think it was more about adjusting his game to the Premier League. Wasn't he an attacking midfielder in Scotland but dropped back to defensive midfielder at Villa?
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He reminds me of Petrov.
Not in the same league Imho , in fact not even close.
Let's not revise everything because of the circumstances of Stan quitting the game but he wasn't that good and in fact below average for a season and half.
For a lot of that time he was played out of position out wide wasn't he?
I think it was more about adjusting his game to the Premier League. Wasn't he an attacking midfielder in Scotland but dropped back to defensive midfielder at Villa?
That's exactly how it was in my opinion. Fans expected an attacking midfielder with goals galore but he was played in a defensive role at Villa, and bloody good at it he was as well. Westwood isn't fit to lace his boots.
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It's easier to be a good defensive midfielder in front of a very good defence and with genuine quality to play to ball up to. Petrov played in a side with some very good players around him; Barry, Young and Milner in particular gave him a great platform to play from.
I'm not saying you're wrong about Petrov or Westwood I just think people are sometimes too keen to ignore the context of the squad Westwood has played in. When we played with a bit of freedom and good movement after new year in 2012/13 Westwood looked a very good player, he was making defence splitting passes and changing the point of the attack brilliantly. Then we spent the next 50 games or so playing long ball safety first shit where Westwood was bypassed when we had the ball and he didn't look great. Even when Lambert decided to play possession football is was slow and pointless and again Westwood struggled because all he was able to do was link up with the centre backs and pass around in his own half.
Under Sherwood with us looking to get movement from the forwards and looking to move the ball faster Westwood is once again looking a very good player, add Grealish, Gil and Traore to the mix and get Veretout up to speed with the league and playing more central and I think we'll see Westwood step up another level, lots of clever, technically accomplished players offering movement in front of him is exactly what anyone playing that role wants.
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He reminds me of Petrov.
Not in the same league Imho , in fact not even close.
Let's not revise everything because of the circumstances of Stan quitting the game but he wasn't that good and in fact below average for a season and half.
I think there is a point here about people revising their opinions on Stan as many people did criticise him in his first season but a lot also recognised the food things he did, which is common for midfielders of his type.
But he was very good for us and is the reason we didn't miss Barry really when he left, as in Barry's last season Petrov had been the better player.
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It's easier to be a good defensive midfielder in front of a very good defence and with genuine quality to play to ball up to. Petrov played in a side with some very good players around him; Barry, Young and Milner in particular gave him a great platform to play from.
I'm not saying you're wrong about Petrov or Westwood I just think people are sometimes too keen to ignore the context of the squad Westwood has played in. When we played with a bit of freedom and good movement after new year in 2012/13 Westwood looked a very good player, he was making defence splitting passes and changing the point of the attack brilliantly. Then we spent the next 50 games or so playing long ball safety first shit where Westwood was bypassed when we had the ball and he didn't look great. Even when Lambert decided to play possession football is was slow and pointless and again Westwood struggled because all he was able to do was link up with the centre backs and pass around in his own half.
Under Sherwood with us looking to get movement from the forwards and looking to move the ball faster Westwood is once again looking a very good player, add Grealish, Gil and Traore to the mix and get Veretout up to speed with the league and playing more central and I think we'll see Westwood step up another level, lots of clever, technically accomplished players offering movement in front of him is exactly what anyone playing that role wants.
Very well put Paul.
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He reminds me of Petrov.
Not in the same league Imho , in fact not even close.
Let's not revise everything because of the circumstances of Stan quitting the game but he wasn't that good and in fact below average for a season and half.
I think there is a point here about people revising their opinions on Stan as many people did criticise him in his first season but a lot also recognised the food things he did, which is common for midfielders of his type.
But he was very good for us and is the reason we didn't miss Barry really when he left, as in Barry's last season Petrov had been the better player.
He was good at bacon up the play.
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He reminds me of Petrov.
Not in the same league Imho , in fact not even close.
Let's not revise everything because of the circumstances of Stan quitting the game but he wasn't that good and in fact below average for a season and half.
I think there is a point here about people revising their opinions on Stan as many people did criticise him in his first season but a lot also recognised the food things he did, which is common for midfielders of his type.
But he was very good for us and is the reason we didn't miss Barry really when he left, as in Barry's last season Petrov had been the better player.
He was good at bacon up the play.
Even though some games he was fed on scraps
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He reminds me of Petrov.
Not in the same league Imho , in fact not even close.
Let's not revise everything because of the circumstances of Stan quitting the game but he wasn't that good and in fact below average for a season and half.
I think there is a point here about people revising their opinions on Stan as many people did criticise him in his first season but a lot also recognised the food things he did, which is common for midfielders of his type.
But he was very good for us and is the reason we didn't miss Barry really when he left, as in Barry's last season Petrov had been the better player.
He was good at bacon up the play.
Even though some games he was fed on scraps
I think he had a better shallot than Westwood, as well.
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Last season I remember cleverley increasingly getting into scoring positions around the time of the cup semi. I was very confident he'd score soon. And he did
I'm getting the same feeling with Westwood now. So this time I'm calling it publicly. He will score one or even two in the next four games.
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He reminds me of Petrov.
Not in the same league Imho , in fact not even close.
Let's not revise everything because of the circumstances of Stan quitting the game but he wasn't that good and in fact below average for a season and half.
I think there is a point here about people revising their opinions on Stan as many people did criticise him in his first season but a lot also recognised the food things he did, which is common for midfielders of his type.
But he was very good for us and is the reason we didn't miss Barry really when he left, as in Barry's last season Petrov had been the better player.
He was good at bacon up the play.
Even though some games he was fed on scraps
I think he had a better shallot than Westwood, as well.
I liked him, but his form was a bit streaky.
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Defensively he sometimes leaves us in a bit of a stew.
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I personally wouldn't play him in a 4 man midfield but in a two...... Never....
Far too light weight, his tracking is poor and as for the pointing....don't ask!
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His corners are atrocious too
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Come back Gueye asap. Same limitations from him, no protection for the centre backs, no impact in the other half. Another one of his games where he does that un noticed thing? It's complete bollocks, I don't notice him doing anything because he fucking isn't. A part of the passenger trio with Gabby and Bacuna. And he can shove his set pieces up his arse, might as well give a goal kick and save the centre backs the run back.
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His corners are atrocious too
Haven't we scored from three of his corners already this season? (admittedly two of them not exactly directly!)
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I don't think today changes anything really. It was agreed that he probably needs to play alongside two other mids, and it showed. He was alright first half, but completely overrun after Leicester changed it up and Sherwood didn't respond, and had no chance of doing anything once it was clear Sanchez had run out of gas.
I don't give a toss about his corner kicks anyway. Fans completely overrate their potential as goalscoring opportunities, provided that the defence bothers to defend them properly (which we aren't doing).
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His corners are atrocious too
Haven't we scored from three of his corners already this season? (admittedly two of them not exactly directly!)
I also suspect that this floating style is dictated by the manager. I think with a big team it can work. But today only really Lescott and Richards to aim for.
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You are kidding about the set pieces right? The percentage of goals scored from them are huge, we need to be better from them, we are shit at set pieces.
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http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2014-15/mar/260315-talking-tactics-adrian-clarke-on-set-piece-specialists.html
There you go - a whopping 3% of corners result in a goal. People just remember the goals, but not the millions of times good deliveries get easily cleared away. I doubt anything's changed dramatically since this was written in March to say that it's suddenly much more than 3%.
Let's not allow facts to get in the way of a whinge though.
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No, can't accept Westwood at all. Never have. He's tidy enough, but what does he actually do? Very rarely scores, doesn't pass incisively enough, has little pace.
A boring, run of the mill player who I can't believe was given a new contract. Crap.
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http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2014-15/mar/260315-talking-tactics-adrian-clarke-on-set-piece-specialists.html
There you go - a whopping 3% of corners result in a goal. People just remember the goals, but not the millions of times good deliveries get easily cleared away. I doubt anything's changed dramatically since this was written in March to say that it's suddenly much more than 3%.
Let's not allow facts to get in the way of a whinge though.
I did say set pieces but nevermind. If you think they don't matter you must be Tim Sherwood.
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http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2014-15/mar/260315-talking-tactics-adrian-clarke-on-set-piece-specialists.html
There you go - a whopping 3% of corners result in a goal. People just remember the goals, but not the millions of times good deliveries get easily cleared away. I doubt anything's changed dramatically since this was written in March to say that it's suddenly much more than 3%.
Let's not allow facts to get in the way of a whinge though.
I did say set pieces but nevermind. If you think they don't matter you must be Tim Sherwood.
Why would set pieces be substantially higher than corners? Some of them come from more dangerous areas; others don't.
I never said that they didn't matter outright. Just that the probability of scoring from them is low enough that it's not worth having an aneurysm when the delivery isn't great. We've already scored twice off them this season despite all that anyway - so why the fuck are we moaning about it?
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http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2014-15/mar/260315-talking-tactics-adrian-clarke-on-set-piece-specialists.html
There you go - a whopping 3% of corners result in a goal. People just remember the goals, but not the millions of times good deliveries get easily cleared away. I doubt anything's changed dramatically since this was written in March to say that it's suddenly much more than 3%.
Let's not allow facts to get in the way of a whinge though.
I did say set pieces but nevermind. If you think they don't matter you must be Tim Sherwood.
Why would set pieces be substantially higher than corners? Some of them come from more dangerous areas; others don't.
I never said that they didn't matter outright. Just that the probability of scoring from them is low enough that it's not worth having an aneurysm when the delivery isn't great. We've already scored twice off them this season despite all that anyway - so why the fuck are we moaning about it?
What's probability of scoring from a cross?
The proabability of scoring from a passed assist?
Both low as whole, should we stop passing and crossing as well? The percentage of goals from set pieces are between 20-30% for most decent teams, ours when I last looked was 8%. That's a huge part of the game that we are poor at and don't exploit.
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http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2014-15/mar/260315-talking-tactics-adrian-clarke-on-set-piece-specialists.html
There you go - a whopping 3% of corners result in a goal. People just remember the goals, but not the millions of times good deliveries get easily cleared away. I doubt anything's changed dramatically since this was written in March to say that it's suddenly much more than 3%.
Let's not allow facts to get in the way of a whinge though.
I did say set pieces but nevermind. If you think they don't matter you must be Tim Sherwood.
Why would set pieces be substantially higher than corners? Some of them come from more dangerous areas; others don't.
I never said that they didn't matter outright. Just that the probability of scoring from them is low enough that it's not worth having an aneurysm when the delivery isn't great. We've already scored twice off them this season despite all that anyway - so why the fuck are we moaning about it?
What's probability of scoring from a cross?
The proabability of scoring from a passed assist?
Both low as whole, should we stop passing and crossing as well? The percentage of goals from set pieces are between 20-30% for most decent teams, ours when I last looked was 8%. That's a huge part of the game that we are poor at and don't exploit.
I'm not even going to respond to your passing/crossing shite, it's completely fallacious.
Whoscored.com for last season has us scoring 10 of our 31 goals from set pieces, so I don't know what stats you're looking at. I suppose part of that is Benteke being there, but that's 30% for you. For reference, City has 12/83; Chelsea 15/73; Arsenal 16/71; United 12/62 - i.e. all lower, and understandably, because they're better at creating chances in open play. Anyway, % of goals scored from set piece is a different stat to goals per set piece. We're arguing about the latter. Yes, Westwood's floaty stuff (which I bet he's being asked to do, because Grealish was curling them in for us at the end of last season) looks bad a lot, but we're simply not doing as shite as you want to make it out to be.
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Westwood's set pieces are fuckin appalling and they always have been. Stats can be manipulated to make the worst of players look decent.
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Well he can always use the Gabby defence for his set pieces.
"Just doing what the manager wants him to."
I don't like seeing them floated in the way they are, but surely if Sherwood wasn't happy he'd have someone else taking them.
It's not like he's short on alternatives.
Grealish and Gil definitely. Bacuna and Amavi possibly.
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Gil can take a decent corner. God knows why we still leave them to have clueless muppet Westwood.
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No, can't accept Westwood at all. Never have. He's tidy enough, but what does he actually do? Very rarely scores, doesn't pass incisively enough, has little pace.
A boring, run of the mill player who I can't believe was given a new contract. Crap.
this
tippy tappy sideways short balls, slows play up too much, no physical presence and doesnt put his foot in enough
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He was even shite in the 1st half today when we generally played well. Apart from him and Bacuna .
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He was even shite in the 1st half today when we generally played well. Apart from him and Bacuna .
Rubbish. Total, reactionary nonsense.
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He was even shite in the 1st half today when we generally played well. Apart from him and Bacuna .
Rubbish. Total, reactionary nonsense.
Suggest you watch it again, dispossessed numerous times, muscled out of the ball, playing nothing incisive whatsoever. And crap corner after crap corner.
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I have to agree with Silhil I'm afraid. He's now one of our more experienced players, but when we're under the cosh a bit he offers nothing.
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We've scored three goals from Westwood corners this season. I'd have Gil or grealish taking them personally. But there's a false premise that other teams are banging in goals from corners all season. They aren't.
As to his general play, he's very similar to carrick, tho not as good. I know lots of people don't rate carrick. But footballers do.
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He's a very very poor mans Michael carrick.
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I said it in the post match thread, but it is worth repeating; Ashley Westwood is fucking shite.
He is one of the main reasons why we've struggled so badly for years. He has a singular inability to pick up a player. It is staggering how easily they run off him. Have a watch again, if you dare, of the Leicester game or yesterday's. Opposition players don't even have to work hard to lose him.
That is a major flaw in a "holding" players game. His lack of speed or strength on the odd occasion he does spot one midfielder ambling by him is another flaw.
He is third division standard pish and is one of the chief reasons Sanchez runs out of steam, because the bloke has no idea about game management. He dictates nothing with his slow tempo and vacates space to be covered by others far too often.
Veretout and Gana might well be the longer term solution. I'd pick just about anybody over this clown.
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He has to be an awful
lot better.
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I said it in the post match thread, but it is worth repeating; Ashley Westwood is fucking shite.
He is one of the main reasons why we've struggled so badly for years. He has a singular inability to pick up a player. It is staggering how easily they run off him. Have a watch again, if you dare, of the Leicester game or yesterday's. Opposition players don't even have to work hard to lose him.
That is a major flaw in a "holding" players game. His lack of speed or strength on the odd occasion he does spot one midfielder ambling by him is another flaw.
He is third division standard pish and is one of the chief reasons Sanchez runs out of steam, because the bloke has no idea about game management. He dictates nothing with his slow tempo and vacates space to be covered by others far too often.
Veretout and Gana might well be the longer term solution. I'd pick just about anybody over this clown.
this.
for the past 3 seasons we have been overun in central midfield and today he was fucking awful. he is so lightweight and knocked off so easily i would be tempted to play a 12 year old girl.
i would play clark in front of the back four as at least he has some bottle
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Utter shit of a player. After we've finally been put out of our misery with him and he leaves he will go the way of the rest of the dross we've had the last few seasons, down the divisions. Mugging a living in the top flight.
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At the end of 12-13 there was a real optimism as we had a great end to the season and some of this also involved Westwood's form at the end of that run-in. However the following two seasons have shown he does absolutely nothing and his set-pieces are atrocious. Compare him to some one in a similar position like a Townsend, Petrov, Draper, Parker or a Richardson. Any one of these could win the ball, take a set-piece, pass it around and score the odd goal. Westwood isn't in the same league as one of those. Westwood passes it around without creating too much and that's about it. Westwood the player is for me the one most representative of Paul Lambert's reign and sadly I don't think he's going to be any different under Sherwood. A Petrov, a Parker or Townsend in this team would make all the difference.
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A nothing player.
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I was going to say similar on this thread, he's set pieces are totally shite, that free kick on the edge of their box was just pathetic. He's the reason we struggle because he's so terrible
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Funny enough, heres his stats. 3 goals and 10 assists in 3 seasons. A half decent midfielder might reach that in one. Okay he averages one shot on goal a game so his goal tally isn't going to be special. So if he's not in there for his goals then maybe his assists. 10 assists in 3 seasons. Nope, not much creativity either. Defensively his stats are pretty low as well. What does he do?
http://www.whoscored.com/Players/79050/History/Ashley-Westwood
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Funny enough, heres his stats. 3 goals and 10 assists in 3 seasons. A half decent midfielder might reach that in one. Okay he averages one shot on goal a game so his goal tally isn't going to be special. So if he's not in there for his goals then maybe his assists. 10 assists in 3 seasons. Nope, not much creativity either. Defensively his stats are pretty low as well. What does he do?
http://www.whoscored.com/Players/79050/History/Ashley-Westwood
I think maybe 5-6 of those assists came in his first season. Where he was showing some promise. He's regressed though. A lot.
Players like Westwood, Gabby and Bacuna are all regulars but they're shit and they're making it very difficult for the club to progress.
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I was going to say similar on this thread, he's set pieces are totally shite, that free kick on the edge of their box was just pathetic. He's the reason we struggle because he's so terrible
definately
this is what his 4th season and he has not progressed one iota. he is however world class at pointing. as long as players of his and bacunas ability are regular starters the only place we are going is the championship
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I thought with Veretout, Gueye and Sanchez we'd have seen the last of this plodder.
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Funny enough, heres his stats. 3 goals and 10 assists in 3 seasons. A half decent midfielder might reach that in one. Okay he averages one shot on goal a game so his goal tally isn't going to be special. So if he's not in there for his goals then maybe his assists. 10 assists in 3 seasons. Nope, not much creativity either. Defensively his stats are pretty low as well. What does he do?
http://www.whoscored.com/Players/79050/History/Ashley-Westwood
I think maybe 5-6 of those assists came in his first season. Where he was showing some promise. He's regressed though. A lot.
Players like Westwood, Gabby and Bacuna are all regulars but they're shit and they're making it very difficult for the club to progress.
they did, six of them were in the first season when Benteke was in that hot goal scoring run. Not much difference between him and El Ahmadi, would be interesting to see how he'd have fit in Sherwood's team. As a defensive midfielder he was much better.
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We definitely miss Gueye
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Westwood can't kick a ball. His set pieces are terrible without exception. He's not very good at kicking a moving ball. Since kicking a football is a fairly important part of the game, then I fail to see the appeal in having Westwood being invisible until he's required to kick a ball, which he can't do. Offload him to Newport County.
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Been saying for ages he's a massive issue. He has not progressed in 3 years, you could argue he's regressed , nowhere near PL level player.
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Been saying for ages he's a massive issue. He has not progressed in 3 years, you could argue he's regressed , nowhere near PL level player.
and to think some thought he could play for england lol
having him in the side is playing with ten men
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Still look on the bright side. He's only contracted to be here until 2020.
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Ashley Westwood is a bog standard average Championship footballer of weak physic and even weaker footballing ability. Makes me nostalgic for Brett Holman!
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The acceptance of defeat still runs through this team with Westwood being one of the main culprits, and for the very same reason, Agbonlahor, Guzan and Bacuna are others that should be nowhere near the starting eleven or even on the bench.
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The acceptance of defeat still runs through this team with Westwood being one of the main culprits, and for the very same reason, Agbonlahor, Guzan and Bacuna are others that should be nowhere near the starting eleven or even on the bench.
You may have noticed that Brad Guzan played very well yesterday. Or perhaps you didn't.
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Ashley Westwood is a bog standard average Championship footballer of weak physic and even weaker footballing ability. Makes me nostalgic for Brett Holman!
Agreed. Too lightweight in every department. Never been a fan, and he's never done anything to convince me he's more that you describe. And fucking useless at set pieces.
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Ashley Westwood is a bog standard average Championship footballer of weak physic and even weaker footballing ability. Makes me nostalgic for Brett Holman!
Agreed. Too lightweight in every department. Never been a fan, and he's never done anything to convince me he's more that you describe. And fucking useless at set pieces.
That's one of my gripes with him. I don't think i've ever seen him take a decent corner.
He actually started the season quite well but he looks better in a three man midfield which I think is something we may have to go back to.
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Westwood isn't a bad player as such, but he plays in an absolutely crucial position, where he's locking horns with opposition players who are so much better than him.
I've always felt Ashley needs two CMs beside him to let him play to his peak. Unfortunately we can't afford that luxury of having him babysat every week.
I haven't looked at the stats but I have a feeling our downturn in results at the end of last year coincided with his reinstatement to the side.
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The acceptance of defeat still runs through this team with Westwood being one of the main culprits, and for the very same reason, Agbonlahor, Guzan and Bacuna are others that should be nowhere near the starting eleven or even on the bench.
You may have noticed that Brad Guzan played very well yesterday. Or perhaps you didn't.
Yes I did notice that he had one of his better performances yesterday, but often can you say that over the last 12 months?
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Him and Wilkins must have great nights at the bar discussing the finer points of the sideways pass.
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Another parasite stealing a living at Aston Villa.
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Another parasite stealing a living at Aston Villa.
That is totally unfair. I am sure he does his best for the club. It is hardly his fault that he does not poccess the required skills to play in such an important position.It is the fault of this manager and the previous manager that he is selected consistently for the first team.
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He's simply not a bad player per se, and this shit about him being a personification of our losing mentality or whatever the fuck is highly melodramatic - tons of so-so player have settled into squad roles at decent mid-table sides. The issue is that Sherwood seems to view him as a starter in a two-man midfield every week, and he's out of his depth there, whereas any club who wants to go anywhere would have him as a squad option for certain games and to help shore things up late.
The problem is that in the context of our midfield options, he offers the same wares as everyone else, except at a slightly lesser quality. Like, Gana keeps the ball as well as him, but he's much better defensively, as is Sanchez. Veretout is being described as someone who has some clue on what to do with the ball in the final third, while that's probably never going to be something Westwood will have any idea of doing. Yesterday, and the Sunderland game, was begging for someone in midfield who would provide a bit of dynamism but we just don't have it at this moment because most of our midfielders are same-y.
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And to repeat, his level of skill and contribution to the team has been deemed worthy of a FIVE year contract extension.
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And to repeat, his level of skill and contribution to the team has been deemed worthy of a FIVE year contract extension.
Um, didn't a lot of people suggest that the actual reason for the contract extensions the club gave this summer had as much to do with ensuring we could get a proper fee for them if we wanted to move them on?
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Yes but you pick your targets with a view to these long contract extensions.
Whose going to be breaking down the door to take Ashley Westwood off our hands. Cardiff, Bristol City, Derby.
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And to repeat, his level of skill and contribution to the team has been deemed worthy of a FIVE year contract extension.
Um, didn't a lot of people suggest that the actual reason for the contract extensions the club gave this summer had as much to do with ensuring we could get a proper fee for them if we wanted to move them on?
I don't know. But assuming we don't move him on, as I can't ever recall there being the merest whiff of interest in him, we're stuck paying him until 2020.
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Even if we're assuming that only Championship clubs would want him (just because we don't really see the fuss about him doesn't necessarily mean that everyone else would share our opinion), they still have a lot of money these days, and I doubt that the wages would be problematic. I don't know if a extra year on the contract would make much of a difference either.
Basically, I just don't see the extension as having made it significantly harder for us to get rid if we choose to do so. Doing it was just to cover ourselves in case he did manage to improve (he still might, even though people are scrambling to throw rocks at him.)
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I thought his performance yesterday was inept. In a 2 man midfield he is exposed for what he is; OK at some things but useless at others. He's neat & tidy with the ball but offers practically nothing as a defensive midfielder & even less as an attacking midfielder. He doesn't do box to box & his set plays are rarely any threat. I struggle to see anything he brings to the team. We cannot play him in a 2 man midfield & Sherwood should be able to see that.
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He's simply not good enough.. he just seems to be a passenger in the games and i'm not sure why he keeps getting played
Defensively he adds very little.. fortunately we have Sanchez alongside him who's very good at winning the ball back
going forward he adds even less, he only seems capable of playing the ball sideways, and for someone who's suppose to have a good level of passing ability, there seems to be no killer ball in his locker at all
and how he's on set pieces i just cannot fathom, his floated in corners are absolutely terrible, and then he decides he wants to take the free kicks too. That free kick in the second half was appalling. Fair enough if it hits the wall or just goes wide, but the ball wasn't even dropping by the time it hit the fans
I'd much rather see a trio of Gardner, Veretout, Gueye or Sanchez in there at the moment
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I thought his performance yesterday was inept. In a 2 man midfield he is exposed for what he is; OK at some things but useless at others. He's neat & tidy with the ball but offers practically nothing as a defensive midfielder & even less as an attacking midfielder. He doesn't do box to box & his set plays are rarely any threat. I struggle to see anything he brings to the team. We cannot play him in a 2 man midfield & Sherwood should be able to see that.
Anyone should be able to see that. He just hasn't got the athleticism to play in that formation, which was underlined by the fact he could not get near Darren Fletcher yesterday. The midfield is a problem as we haven't really got the personnel to be flexible in there. Last season, we had Westwood, Sanchez, Delph and Cleverley, which meant we could play either a three or a two. This season, we have Gana, Sanchez, Westwood and the relatively untried Veretout. They all seem pretty similar and fitting them into a three would leave a pretty unbalanced three. What I would like to see is Sanchez and Gana playing together with Grealish or Gil in front of them.
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The 5 year contract doesn't bother me with Westwood. If we wanted rid of him we'd sell him easily I reckon.
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Westwood's problem is that he's played as a defensive, quarterback-style midfielder, but his defending is absolutely atrocious.
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Westwood plays well in a three, and maybe in a deep two against less physical teams, but yesterday was never the game for that. Veretout should have been in the side, preferably for Gabby or Sinclair, and we should have played a 4-3-3 with Gil and Grealish given freeish reign to do their thing with more protection behind them.
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Until regulars like him are replaced we won't improve. He's played consistently now in a Villa team that has never bettered 15th and that's about the best he can achieve imo. He should be on the bench at best if we want to get better.
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Think we'd get about £2.3m for him from someone like Ipswich
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Be interesting if Westwood would be starting if we could field our first choice 11. Although given our injury record, we'll probably never find out.
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The 5 year contract doesn't bother me with Westwood. If we wanted rid of him we'd sell him easily I reckon.
Depends what his wages are.
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The thing is initially Sherwood dropped him and didn't fancy him, look at his team line ups for the first couple of games, he was on the bench.
To his credit he knuckled down and produced an outstanding performance v Liverpool and some good ones in the league.
As it goes I don't mind him, I think he has some good qualities but yeah bit deluded to think he's ever going to be an outstanding player for us in this league.
Also another who looks like he might be on easy street now he's got a brand spanking contract extension to follow the likes of Weimann and Lowton.
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Doesn't really contribute enough for me. I rather see Clark given a run in CM. After all, Clark has played midfield before and would certainly add more physicality.
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Has he ever produced a convincing performance as part of a midfield two (either in a 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1)? I'm struggling. His good stretches of form have always been when we've played 4-3-3, and particularly when there's someone else in midfield who can get forward to support the front three. In the context of our current squad his strengths are superfluous sadly.
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Until regulars like him are replaced we won't improve. He's played consistently now in a Villa team that has never bettered 15th and that's about the best he can achieve imo. He should be on the bench at best if we want to get better.
Nail on the head, add Gabby too. Simply not good enough.
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Westwood's no world-beater but we're setting ourselves up to fail with only two CMF. Why Veretout was not in there as the third CMF on Saturday baffles me.
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I would play either Clark or Veretout in midfield instead of Westwood
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Gana and Sanchez can be the anchors with the Traores and Grealishs of this world providing the sparks
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Gana and Sanchez can be the anchors with the Traores and Grealishs of this world providing the sparks
Agree. Gana and Sanchez with Grealish in front of them would be the way I would be looking to go.
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A recurring problem with our midfield over the recent bad years is the inability or unwillingness to be direct, to run straight. Westwood has picked up the vice of shallow cross field runs that gain no attacking advantage and wrong foot his own players. Steven Davis started doing it with us and so did Barry Bannan. KEA raised it to an art form. Cleverley learned it now Westwood does it. Apart from anything else the shallow runs mean you run thirty yards but the player who tackles you only has to run five so you are knackered after an hour. Worse still it simply allows teams like we played last Saturday to consolidate and present a ten man defensive wall. We must have midfield players who play straight and play penetrating passes. Passing the ball across the pitch to feel out the opposition is effective enough but running from side to side achieves nothing that a good pass cannot bring about with a fraction of the physical effort. When Stylian was at his best he would collect the ball, take half a turn to both protect possession and see what was on then make his pass. That is why so many football greats appear to have time and play almost at walking pace. It is because they play straight and put the opposition on the back foot not go flying off at tangents all over the field.
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The main problem with Westwood is that we simply dont have the squad options to replace him at the moment. Its all well and good criticising the players, but when there's no options to replace him with someone better then there's not an awful lot that can be done about it until Gueye returns from injury or Veretout proves he's fit and good enough.
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The main problem with Westwood is that we simply dont have the squad options to replace him at the moment. Its all well and good criticising the players, but when there's no options to replace him with someone better then there's not an awful lot that can be done about it until Gueye returns from injury or Veretout proves he's fit and good enough.
I would chuck clark in, always thought he would be better as a defensive midfielder rather than a centre half and he will put his foot in.
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Gana and Sanchez can be the anchors with the Traores and Grealishs of this world providing the sparks
Agree. Gana and Sanchez with Grealish in front of them would be the way I would be looking to go.
I think you need a third body in there. Less attacking but we need to be harder to beat. Currently I'd go:
---Gana----Sanchez-----Westwood/Vertout---
---Adama---Gabby----Grelish------
Westwood is taking a lot of flack right now but I think he just about guarantees 6/7 out of ten performances each week, whereas Sanchez/Vertout and Gana sometimes absolutely stink the place out. Hopefully as they become more settled the need to rely on Westwood will reduce but I think he has a consistency - albeit average - which will help the transition.
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Gana and Sanchez can be the anchors with the Traores and Grealishs of this world providing the sparks
Agree. Gana and Sanchez with Grealish in front of them would be the way I would be looking to go.
I agree too, although I also agree with those who suggest Clark as a defensive midfield option. I have thought for quite a while that could be his best position. Westwood's consistently woeful wayward shooting is embarrassing.
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A recurring problem with our midfield over the recent bad years is the inability or unwillingness to be direct, to run straight. Westwood has picked up the vice of shallow cross field runs that gain no attacking advantage and wrong foot his own players. Steven Davis started doing it with us and so did Barry Bannan. KEA raised it to an art form. Cleverley learned it now Westwood does it. Apart from anything else the shallow runs mean you run thirty yards but the player who tackles you only has to run five so you are knackered after an hour. Worse still it simply allows teams like we played last Saturday to consolidate and present a ten man defensive wall. We must have midfield players who play straight and play penetrating passes. Passing the ball across the pitch to feel out the opposition is effective enough but running from side to side achieves nothing that a good pass cannot bring about with a fraction of the physical effort. When Stylian was at his best he would collect the ball, take half a turn to both protect possession and see what was on then make his pass. That is why so many football greats appear to have time and play almost at walking pace. It is because they play straight and put the opposition on the back foot not go flying off at tangents all over the field.
I agree, Brian. Let the ball do the work.
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I like Clark but if we're citing him as an option, we may as well give Gardner a run once he gets healthy.
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Westwood is taking a lot of flack right now but I think he just about guarantees 6/7 out of ten performances each week
I don't think that he came anywhere near a 6/7 out of 10 on Saturday. And why the coaching staff have him taking corners when Gil and Grealish are on the pitch I cannot fathom.
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Westwood is taking a lot of flack right now but I think he just about guarantees 6/7 out of ten performances each week
I don't think that he came anywhere near a 6/7 out of 10 on Saturday. And why the coaching staff have him taking corners when Gil and Grealish are on the pitch I cannot fathom.
Set pieces are total dog shite
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Gana and Sanchez can be the anchors with the Traores and Grealishs of this world providing the sparks
Agree. Gana and Sanchez with Grealish in front of them would be the way I would be looking to go.
I think you need a third body in there. Less attacking but we need to be harder to beat. Currently I'd go:
---Gana----Sanchez-----Westwood/Vertout---
---Adama---Gabby----Grelish------
Westwood is taking a lot of flack right now but I think he just about guarantees 6/7 out of ten performances each week, whereas Sanchez/Vertout and Gana sometimes absolutely stink the place out. Hopefully as they become more settled the need to rely on Westwood will reduce but I think he has a consistency - albeit average - which will help the transition.
I'm sorry, but I don't like the look of that midfield at all. There's three players there doing exactly the same role.
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Westwood is nowhere near as bad as some make out.
But, ....
Gana and Sanchez look better options in a two man midfield.
Westwood is never going to be an attacking midfielder in front of the defensive pair.
Personally, I think we ought to be looking at 3 central defenders with Westwood as the right wing back (Hutton and Bacuna aren't good enough footballers for me).
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Westwood as a wing back? Don't they have to be able to tackle and put a cross in?
edit: to continue, a decent wing back either has to be a reliable full back who can go forward a bit, eg Alan Wright, or somebody good going forward, who can tackle a bit, eg Gary Charles. Westwood doesn't have any of this attributes at all, his strength such as it is, is to give and go, and keep the ball moving in midfield. He can't defend, beat a man or put a decent cross in, so would be utterly hopeless as a wing back in my opinion. If we were going down that route, I think Bacuna would be the best option from a bad lot.
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Westwood as a wing back? Don't they have to be able to tackle and put a cross in?
edit: to continue, a decent wing back either has to be a reliable full back who can go forward a bit, eg Alan Wright, or somebody good going forward, who can tackle a bit, eg Gary Charles. Westwood doesn't have any of this attributes at all, his strength such as it is, is to give and go, and keep the ball moving in midfield. He can't defend, beat a man or put a decent cross in, so would be utterly hopeless as a wing back in my opinion. If we were going down that route, I think Bacuna would be the best option from a bad lot.
I think Bacuna is unreliable - a mixture of the sublime and ridiculous.
For me its the 'give and go' ability that made me think Westwood might be an option. It's all about partnerships and triangles - for example Gill and Hutton never got anything going on Saturday - either Hutton went on his own or Gill cut inside. Similarly nobody supported Grealish.
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I don't think Westwood is anywhere near as bad as many make out on here but bloody hell on Saturday I couldn't for the life of me understand why he took every sodding corner and free kick until Bacuna came on. Every single corner is the same.
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Westwood struggles in a two man midfield but alongside two of Gana, Sanchez or Veretout would absolutely fine
It doesn't help that we currently have Grealish and Gil (plus two strikers) in the starting XI meaning the midfield can get overrun as neither of those two are renowned for their back tracking and defensive work. If we are going to persist with a two man central midfield it has to be Gana and Sanchez
Westwood should lay off the corners and free kicks though - they're in the main bloody awful
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So basically Westwood isn't good enough whilst Gueye is out injured but we dont have any better options in midfield whilst Veretout is still not match fit? I would agree that Westwood can't be relied upon in a 2 man midfield so TS needs to find a way to accommodate someone else whilst maintaining some resemblance of an attacking threat.
Would a midfield 3 of Sanchez, Westwood and Veretout be adequate in their current form and fitness? Personally I'd switch to 4321 with Grealish and Gil/Sinclair behind whoever we play upfront...the alternative would be 442 with Bacuna on the right ahead of Hutton, but our attacking options would be stifled to say the least.
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So basically Westwood isn't good enough whilst Gueye is out injured but we dont have any better options in midfield whilst Veretout is still not match fit? I would agree that Westwood can't be relied upon in a 2 man midfield so TS needs to find a way to accommodate someone else whilst maintaining some resemblance of an attacking threat.
Would a midfield 3 of Sanchez, Westwood and Veretout be adequate in their current form and fitness? Personally I'd switch to 4321 with Grealish and Gil/Sinclair behind whoever we play upfront...the alternative would be 442 with Bacuna on the right ahead of Hutton, but our attacking options would be stifled to say the least.
Nice summary of the options and the dilemmas/
(1) is that Vertout hasn't exactly done much to warrant a start
(2) means possibly dropping Sinclair who's been the main goal scorer thus far
(3) not only Bacuna/Hutton axis underwhelming, the left side doesn't look much better - Grealish and Amavi? - looks very weak defensively and didn't link up that well on Saturday in terms of an attacking threat either.
The more I think of the options then 3-5-2 or 3-4-2-1 seems a better fit to who's fit (and good enough)
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The season kicked off bloody weeks ago. Getting on for the same length of time as pre-season since. Why aren't our players fit enough yet? Is it just us, or are other clubs in this state too?
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Gary Gardner will replace him in the team by the end of the season.
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So basically Westwood isn't good enough whilst Gueye is out injured but we dont have any better options in midfield whilst Veretout is still not match fit? I would agree that Westwood can't be relied upon in a 2 man midfield so TS needs to find a way to accommodate someone else whilst maintaining some resemblance of an attacking threat.
Would a midfield 3 of Sanchez, Westwood and Veretout be adequate in their current form and fitness? Personally I'd switch to 4321 with Grealish and Gil/Sinclair behind whoever we play upfront...the alternative would be 442 with Bacuna on the right ahead of Hutton, but our attacking options would be stifled to say the least.
To be fair to Westwood, Sherwood arsed him around a bit playing him out of position against the likes of Palace.
Thought he played well v Sunderland, a woeful Sunderland it must be said, but without Gueye he struggles and we struggle.
Veretout looked like a man just out of bed when he came on not someone bursting to get into the team, with Gueye out we suddenly look very light in the middle unless we consider bringing Richardson into a midfield three
Was far from the only one who abdicated responsibility against West Brom - Sinclair and Grealish hid again, Amavi jumped out of a tackle costing us the goal while Gil only wanted the ball in areas that didnt hurt the Baggies. Our keeper and two centre halves were anything but solid. As for Gabby
Westwood seems to get it worse than most of the others for some reason, I like him despite his limitations but his friends in the British media are doing him no favours imo linking him to international call ups
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Gary Gardner will replace him in the team by the end of the season.
I'm not sure Gary Gardner exists, he could be our Shorty Krantz.
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Gary Gardner will replace him in the team by the end of the season.
I'm not sure Gary Gardner exists, he could be our Shorty Krantz.
Chris, you know full well that you shouldn't take the name of the great Shorty Krantz lightly.
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Didn't he own Bristol St Motors?
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I don't know, Brian, but I am backing Ashley Westwood to do great things and carry on being a force in the midfield with amazing stats.
Not that stats are everything but I like the way he plays.
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but I like the way he plays.
Lou . You are easily pleased
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but I like the way he plays.
Lou . You are easily pleased
I don't think so, Silhill, I have seen him and think that he has a bit of a thankless job, tbh.
He does it very well.
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but I like the way he plays.
Lou . You are easily pleased
I don't think so, Silhill, I have seen him and think that he has a bit of a thankless job, tbh.
He does it very well.
I'm afraid you are Lou, he's even shit at thankless tasks. He was worse than useless on Saturday not for the first time. I'm afraid he just doesn't have the physicality required for Premier League football.
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Don't forget Lou was a big fan of Heskey, just to put things in perspective. 😉
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Still am Risso. You don't just forget about Emile.
Sad to hear Ashley has not pulled up any trees, lately. Maybe tonight's the night for him and the team to turn it around.
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My concern is we could spend another £50 million and Sherbert would still start with Westwood and Gabby.
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Still am Risso. You don't just forget about Emile.
Sad to hear Ashley has not pulled up any trees, lately. Maybe tonight's the night for him and the team to turn it around.
The game once again mostly passed him by, okay so in the first half it was the whole team that was rubbish, but in the second when Ayew and Jack stole the show he became even more peripheral. I fear that our Ashley is going to find himself permanently benched if we finally get some of our injured troops back.
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Still am Risso. You don't just forget about Emile.
Sad to hear Ashley has not pulled up any trees, lately. Maybe tonight's the night for him and the team to turn it around.
The game once again mostly passed him by, okay so in the first half it was the whole team that was rubbish, but in the second when Ayew and Jack stole the show he became even more peripheral. I fear that our Ashley is going to find himself permanently benched if we finally get some of our injured troops back.
I thought he did OK in keeping things ticking over and doing the donkey work to allow those ahead of him to do their thing. I do agree though that once everyone is up to speed he might become less of a fixture.
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Right.... Can anyone tell me what he offers to the team?
I can see nothing
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Right.... Can anyone tell me what he offers to the team?
I can see nothing
Discipline, for a start. When you have players who like to move all across the pitch in front then you need somebody to hold their position otherwise you end up with 7 players on one side of the pitch. Secondly he keeps the ball moving and the play ticking over. There might be others who will, in time, do it better but for now I think Grealish etc need a player doing what he does to give them the freedom to do what they do.
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Right.... Can anyone tell me what he offers to the team?
I can see nothing
He is the player which shows for the ball most often by constantly moving into space to receive a pass from the defenders. That in itself does not hurt teams but it does provide a platform which the team can play from.
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Still am Risso. You don't just forget about Emile.
Sad to hear Ashley has not pulled up any trees, lately. Maybe tonight's the night for him and the team to turn it around.
The game once again mostly passed him by, okay so in the first half it was the whole team that was rubbish, but in the second when Ayew and Jack stole the show he became even more peripheral. I fear that our Ashley is going to find himself permanently benched if we finally get some of our injured troops back.
I thought he did OK in keeping things ticking over and doing the donkey work to allow those ahead of him to do their thing. I do agree though that once everyone is up to speed he might become less of a fixture.
I thought he was awful in a more advanced role in the first half. Easily outmuscled and second to evry ball. Looked more comfortable playing further deeper in the second half, but I still think he is one that we need to replace if we are going to move forward.
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If keeping things ticking over was as half as easy as people on here make it out to be and such a basic skill that any old midfielder knows how to do it, England wouldn't have had a chronic problem with keeping possession, but they have.
Westwood's problem is that we're starting to collect more midfielders who can do that, and he hasn't improved any other facets of his game so far, which means he's increasingly guilty of offering nothing unique to the team.
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I actually lowered myself to reading the match report in the Sun this morning. They gave Westwood 7 out 10 and Grealish only 6?!?!?
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I actually lowered myself to reading the match report in the Sun this morning. They gave Westwood 7 out 10 and Grealish only 6?!?!?
Good, the last thing we want is Jack becoming a tabloid favourite or we'll be in for a summer of "reliable source" touting him to Liverpool and Tottenham for 10m plus combinations of their rejects in return.
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I actually lowered myself to reading the match report in the Sun this morning. They gave Westwood 7 out 10 and Grealish only 6?!?!?
Grealish only played half the game. Therefore, pro-rata, he actually got 12 out of 10
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Right.... Can anyone tell me what he offers to the team?
I can see nothing
Discipline, for a start. When you have players who like to move all across the pitch in front then you need somebody to hold their position otherwise you end up with 7 players on one side of the pitch. Secondly he keeps the ball moving and the play ticking over. There might be others who will, in time, do it better but for now I think Grealish etc need a player doing what he does to give them the freedom to do what they do.
I agree Chris. My gripe with Westwood is that he doesn't have the athleticism or physicality to do the harder defensive work when we don't have the ball.
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He was playing where Delph and Cleverley played in the diamond under Sherwood last season and it's just not a job he does well and we didn't have the players for that formation on the pitch. He's at the very least competent in the position he was in the second half and the formation suited all the players better. It should be him and Sanchez in an either/or situation at the Base of a midfield 3 if you ask me. We need to improve our possession before we can cope with only 2 in midfield.
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Right.... Can anyone tell me what he offers to the team?
I can see nothing
He is the player which shows for the ball most often by constantly moving into space to receive a pass from the defenders. That in itself does not hurt teams but it does provide a platform which the team can play from.
I saw Ayew coming for the ball off the defenders more than he did and he was only on 45 mins...
Everything by-passes him cus he's not up to the job. He's had more than enough chances... time for a change IMO
Guess we'll have to disagree
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Maybe us Villa fans have been spoiled by having Barry and Petrov playing Westwood's position for years and him looking poor in comparison.
It's like how even if Rudy does a decent job he'll always be negative compared to Benteke.
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Westwood looks neat and tidy in the deep midfield position when there is no opposition player near him. When he moves forward and has opposition players around him, his only way to play is either square or back. He does not seem to react quick enough to play the short through passes between the midfield and defence. He has a knack of playing more balls to players in no better position than himself.
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I confess to be somewhat old fashioned and therefore a little unimpressed when people praise Westwood by saying things like he keeps the ball moving, and he keeps play ticking over. I've no real idea what keeping play ticking over means, or why it is supposedly a good thing. Or why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired. I'd prefer a player held on to it rather than keep it moving in the general direction of the opposition, as Westwood all too frequently does. I'd rather have a player who can put a foot in to win the ball, keep hold of it when he needs to, play the right pass at the right time, play an occasional killer pass, get some goals and assists, take a decent set piece, get forward and back quickly and effectively, and impose himself on the game and the opposition especially when we're under pressure. The kind of things that unfortunately Westwood regularly demonstrates he's not very good at. I just don't think he's particularly good I guess, but then I didn't rate Petrov much either.
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I confess to be somewhat old fashioned and therefore a little unimpressed when people praise Westwood by saying things like he keeps the ball moving, and he keeps play ticking over. I've no real idea what keeping play ticking over means, or why it is supposedly a good thing. Or why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired. I'd prefer a player held on to it rather than keep it moving in the general direction of the opposition, as Westwood all too frequently does. I'd rather have a player who can put a foot in to win the ball, keep hold of it when he needs to, play the right pass at the right time, play an occasional killer pass, get some goals and assists, take a decent set piece, get forward and back quickly and effectively, and impose himself on the game and the opposition especially when we're under pressure. The kind of things that unfortunately Westwood regularly demonstrates he's not very good at. I just don't think he's particularly good I guess, but then I didn't rate Petrov much either.
I couldn't agree more.
The arrival of promising midfielders in Gana and Veretout and Sanchez finally showing some class and consistency is really showing up Westwood for the sideways passing Championship corner floater that he always was.
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I confess to be somewhat old fashioned and therefore a little unimpressed when people praise Westwood by saying things like he keeps the ball moving, and he keeps play ticking over. I've no real idea what keeping play ticking over means, or why it is supposedly a good thing. Or why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired. I'd prefer a player held on to it rather than keep it moving in the general direction of the opposition, as Westwood all too frequently does. I'd rather have a player who can put a foot in to win the ball, keep hold of it when he needs to, play the right pass at the right time, play an occasional killer pass, get some goals and assists, take a decent set piece, get forward and back quickly and effectively, and impose himself on the game and the opposition especially when we're under pressure. The kind of things that unfortunately Westwood regularly demonstrates he's not very good at. I just don't think he's particularly good I guess, but then I didn't rate Petrov much either.
There's an argument to say we never truly seen the best of Petrov, but he was a very intelligent footballer.
There were a number of games I witnessed when he was playing for Bulgaria -sometimes against top class opposition- and he ran the show. And yes, part of that was keeping play ticking over, moving the ball on quickly and always being available for a return pass.
My gripe at the time with Stan was I knew he had more to his game than we seen for most of his time with us. He had a good shot on him, but didn't get forward enough. He was capable of sharp, incisive passing. But all to often relied on playing the safe ball. I credit him with taking one for the team though, as I think he was under instruction to do that.
I don't think Westwood has that extra gear. We would have seen more evidence of it by now.
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I confess to be somewhat old fashioned and therefore a little unimpressed when people praise Westwood by saying things like he keeps the ball moving, and he keeps play ticking over. I've no real idea what keeping play ticking over means, or why it is supposedly a good thing. Or why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired. I'd prefer a player held on to it rather than keep it moving in the general direction of the opposition, as Westwood all too frequently does. I'd rather have a player who can put a foot in to win the ball, keep hold of it when he needs to, play the right pass at the right time, play an occasional killer pass, get some goals and assists, take a decent set piece, get forward and back quickly and effectively, and impose himself on the game and the opposition especially when we're under pressure. The kind of things that unfortunately Westwood regularly demonstrates he's not very good at. I just don't think he's particularly good I guess, but then I didn't rate Petrov much either.
You don't understand why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired?
Not every pass can be a killer pass but keeping possession until that opportunity arises is a fundamental part of the game - the water carrier as Cantona described them - and essential to any team. The wrong player in that role results in things like over ambitious passes or dribbles in your own half. There are obviously better players at it than Westwood (then again you could say that for all of our squad) but not to have anyone playing the role because you don't understand it is a dangerous game to play. I think Sherwood likes him because it is the role he used to do himself.
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I confess to be somewhat old fashioned and therefore a little unimpressed when people praise Westwood by saying things like he keeps the ball moving, and he keeps play ticking over. I've no real idea what keeping play ticking over means, or why it is supposedly a good thing. Or why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired. I'd prefer a player held on to it rather than keep it moving in the general direction of the opposition, as Westwood all too frequently does. I'd rather have a player who can put a foot in to win the ball, keep hold of it when he needs to, play the right pass at the right time, play an occasional killer pass, get some goals and assists, take a decent set piece, get forward and back quickly and effectively, and impose himself on the game and the opposition especially when we're under pressure. The kind of things that unfortunately Westwood regularly demonstrates he's not very good at. I just don't think he's particularly good I guess, but then I didn't rate Petrov much either.
You don't understand why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired?
Not every pass can be a killer pass but keeping possession until that opportunity arises is a fundamental part of the game - the water carrier as Cantona described them - and essential to any team. The wrong player in that role results in things like over ambitious passes or dribbles in your own half. There are obviously better players at it than Westwood (then again you could say that for all of our squad) but not to have anyone playing the role because you don't understand it is a dangerous game to play. I think Sherwood likes him because it is the role he used to do himself.
it keeps the ball moving and hence keeps the opposition moving until the point where a gap appears. That is where you need someone who can play the killer pass which is something we have been lacking for quite a while
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I confess to be somewhat old fashioned and therefore a little unimpressed when people praise Westwood by saying things like he keeps the ball moving, and he keeps play ticking over. I've no real idea what keeping play ticking over means, or why it is supposedly a good thing. Or why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired. I'd prefer a player held on to it rather than keep it moving in the general direction of the opposition, as Westwood all too frequently does. I'd rather have a player who can put a foot in to win the ball, keep hold of it when he needs to, play the right pass at the right time, play an occasional killer pass, get some goals and assists, take a decent set piece, get forward and back quickly and effectively, and impose himself on the game and the opposition especially when we're under pressure. The kind of things that unfortunately Westwood regularly demonstrates he's not very good at. I just don't think he's particularly good I guess, but then I didn't rate Petrov much either.
You don't understand why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired?
Not every pass can be a killer pass but keeping possession until that opportunity arises is a fundamental part of the game - the water carrier as Cantona described them - and essential to any team. The wrong player in that role results in things like over ambitious passes or dribbles in your own half. There are obviously better players at it than Westwood (then again you could say that for all of our squad) but not to have anyone playing the role because you don't understand it is a dangerous game to play. I think Sherwood likes him because it is the role he used to do himself.
It's an important skill, but it isn't enough for a Premier League player to only have that ability in his locker. Westwood offers very, very little of anything else.
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I confess to be somewhat old fashioned and therefore a little unimpressed when people praise Westwood by saying things like he keeps the ball moving, and he keeps play ticking over. I've no real idea what keeping play ticking over means, or why it is supposedly a good thing. Or why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired. I'd prefer a player held on to it rather than keep it moving in the general direction of the opposition, as Westwood all too frequently does. I'd rather have a player who can put a foot in to win the ball, keep hold of it when he needs to, play the right pass at the right time, play an occasional killer pass, get some goals and assists, take a decent set piece, get forward and back quickly and effectively, and impose himself on the game and the opposition especially when we're under pressure. The kind of things that unfortunately Westwood regularly demonstrates he's not very good at. I just don't think he's particularly good I guess, but then I didn't rate Petrov much either.
You don't understand why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired?
Not every pass can be a killer pass but keeping possession until that opportunity arises is a fundamental part of the game - the water carrier as Cantona described them - and essential to any team. The wrong player in that role results in things like over ambitious passes or dribbles in your own half. There are obviously better players at it than Westwood (then again you could say that for all of our squad) but not to have anyone playing the role because you don't understand it is a dangerous game to play. I think Sherwood likes him because it is the role he used to do himself.
It's an important skill, but it isn't enough for a Premier League player to only have that ability in his locker. Westwood offers very, very little of anything else.
Agree to a point but 'so far' I haven't seen anyone who does what he does. That's not to say they can't but to date they haven't shown that they are suited to the job.
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I personally after 3 years remain unconvinced he is good enough to be Top Level starter at all.
Would he get into the Everton, Swansea, Southampton, West Ham starting line up? I don't think so.
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I confess to be somewhat old fashioned and therefore a little unimpressed when people praise Westwood by saying things like he keeps the ball moving, and he keeps play ticking over. I've no real idea what keeping play ticking over means, or why it is supposedly a good thing. Or why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired. I'd prefer a player held on to it rather than keep it moving in the general direction of the opposition, as Westwood all too frequently does. I'd rather have a player who can put a foot in to win the ball, keep hold of it when he needs to, play the right pass at the right time, play an occasional killer pass, get some goals and assists, take a decent set piece, get forward and back quickly and effectively, and impose himself on the game and the opposition especially when we're under pressure. The kind of things that unfortunately Westwood regularly demonstrates he's not very good at. I just don't think he's particularly good I guess, but then I didn't rate Petrov much either.
You don't understand why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired?
Not every pass can be a killer pass but keeping possession until that opportunity arises is a fundamental part of the game - the water carrier as Cantona described them - and essential to any team. The wrong player in that role results in things like over ambitious passes or dribbles in your own half. There are obviously better players at it than Westwood (then again you could say that for all of our squad) but not to have anyone playing the role because you don't understand it is a dangerous game to play. I think Sherwood likes him because it is the role he used to do himself.
It's an important skill, but it isn't enough for a Premier League player to only have that ability in his locker. Westwood offers very, very little of anything else.
Agree to a point but 'so far' I haven't seen anyone who does what he does. That's not to say they can't but to date they haven't shown that they are suited to the job.
so he doesn't score, he doesn't assist, his delivery on dead balls is awful, he doesn't protect the back four or defend very well or seem to be a voice on the pitch to inspire. Exactly whet is he good at? keeping the ball moving doesnt really count as it often goes sideways, backwards or is a very safe forward pass. I think after three seasons he just isn't up to Premier league level.
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Sherwood was touting him for England a few weeks ago.
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I personally after 3 years remain unconvinced he is good enough to be Top Level starter at all.
Would he get into the Everton, Swansea, Southampton, West Ham starting line up? I don't think so.
With everybody fit I wouldn't have him in our starting line-up either - but I think he'd be welcome in the squads of all the above, just like he would be in ours.
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Sherwood was touting him for England a few weeks ago.
That's because Sherwood has his favourites, hence Bacuna getting a game
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He does shield the back 4 when played there in the same way that Petrov used to by being in the right place (I am not suggesting he is as good at it but that he performs a similar job).
Of course keeping the ball moving 'counts', how else are those who are going to hurt the opposition going to get the ball in the first place?
For as long as I can remember those type of players have been dismissed at Villa because they rarely catch the eye or appear in highlights or even get picked out by pundits but I think it is an important role. However, I am not going to keep banging on about it, I don't think I am going to change views on here and that's fine we all see things differently.
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Sherwood was touting him for England a few weeks ago.
That's because Sherwood has his favourites
Are there any managers who don't?
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You tell me
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You tell me
I would guess not. A manager might pick a player because he feels that he is better at following his instructions over a better player who doesn't.
Is that any different to having 'favourites'?
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You tell me
I would guess not. A manager might pick a player because he feels that he is better at following his instructions over a better player who doesn't.
Is that any different to having 'favourites'?
In my eyes yes.
Are you telling me that when Bacuna plays at right back it's because Sherwood feels he can follow instructions better than Hutton or Richards?
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Westwood looks neat and tidy in the deep midfield position when there is no opposition player near him. When he moves forward and has opposition players around him, his only way to play is either square or back. He does not seem to react quick enough to play the short through passes between the midfield and defence. He has a knack of playing more balls to players in no better position than himself.
I couldn't agree more. He always drops deep and takes the ball off a defender then without even looking forward just passes it back to another center half. I think this "ticking over" should be expected of any center midfielder added with the ability to attack and defend. I know he has good stats of chances created last season but I would like to know how many were clear cut chances and how many were those pointless floated corners/crosses that constantly rise then lower to head height a couple off meters past the goal.
The way I look at it is the midfield is the most important thing in the game and is where most games are won and lost, I know we have not had good enough players in their such as KEA, Sylla, Cleverly, and arguably Delph which have been sold/released so why is Westwood still in their as he's been a constant while we have been rubbish and probably the answer to why we lose so many midfield battles such as to Birmingham City in the first half.
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You tell me
I would guess not. A manager might pick a player because he feels that he is better at following his instructions over a better player who doesn't.
Is that any different to having 'favourites'?
In my eyes yes.
Are you telling me that when Bacuna plays at right back it's because Sherwood feels he can follow instructions better than Hutton or Richards?
I think he probably is. What other reason do you think the manager has?
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You tell me
I would guess not. A manager might pick a player because he feels that he is better at following his instructions over a better player who doesn't.
Is that any different to having 'favourites'?
In my eyes yes.
Are you telling me that when Bacuna plays at right back it's because Sherwood feels he can follow instructions better than Hutton or Richards?
I think he probably is. What other reason do you think the manager has?
Oh, right.
I think he has firm favourites, with Westwood and Bacuna being his favoured two. So far he has got away with it to a certain extent
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You tell me
I would guess not. A manager might pick a player because he feels that he is better at following his instructions over a better player who doesn't.
Is that any different to having 'favourites'?
In my eyes yes.
Are you telling me that when Bacuna plays at right back it's because Sherwood feels he can follow instructions better than Hutton or Richards?
Presumably either that or that he just thinks that Bacuna gives the team more in that position than Hutton.
If it were neither of those two things, what else would there be that makes him a 'favourite'?
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You tell me
I would guess not. A manager might pick a player because he feels that he is better at following his instructions over a better player who doesn't.
Is that any different to having 'favourites'?
In my eyes yes.
Are you telling me that when Bacuna plays at right back it's because Sherwood feels he can follow instructions better than Hutton or Richards?
Presumably either that or that he just thinks that Bacuna gives the team more in that position than Hutton.
If it were neither of those two things, what else would there be that makes him a 'favourite'?
Bacuna is more fun to 'Netflix 'n chill' with than Hutton.
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You tell me
I would guess not. A manager might pick a player because he feels that he is better at following his instructions over a better player who doesn't.
Is that any different to having 'favourites'?
In my eyes yes.
Are you telling me that when Bacuna plays at right back it's because Sherwood feels he can follow instructions better than Hutton or Richards?
Presumably either that or that he just thinks that Bacuna gives the team more in that position than Hutton.
If it were neither of those two things, what else would there be that makes him a 'favourite'?
Look at it from my side. Bacuna is not and never will be a right back, so I believe that Sherwood maybe prefers his character than that of his alternative. He maybe a yes man, arse licker, call it what you wish and that suits the manager
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I think all managers have and are entitled to have preferences. Personal feelings should not enter into it. I liked Alex McLeish but it does not prevent me from saying that he should never have been allowed within a million miles of being our manager.
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You tell me
I would guess not. A manager might pick a player because he feels that he is better at following his instructions over a better player who doesn't.
Is that any different to having 'favourites'?
In my eyes yes.
Are you telling me that when Bacuna plays at right back it's because Sherwood feels he can follow instructions better than Hutton or Richards?
Presumably either that or that he just thinks that Bacuna gives the team more in that position than Hutton.
If it were neither of those two things, what else would there be that makes him a 'favourite'?
Look at it from my side. Bacuna is not and never will be a right back, so I believe that Sherwood maybe prefers his character than that of his alternative. He maybe a yes man, arse licker, call it what you wish and that suits the manager
So you're suggesting that the manager believes that Hutton is the better right back AND also better at following the instructions that the coaching staff give him on the pitch, yet in spite of this plays Bacuna in that position just because he thinks he's a nicer bloke?
I'm far from Sherwood's biggest fan, but that strikes me as pretty unlikely.
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What I am saying is that in my opinion Bacuna is a yes man to Sherwood and that it goes a long way with the manager.
For the record, I think Richards would be better suited in the position of right back over anyone else
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What I am saying is that in my opinion Bacuna is a yes man to Sherwood and that it goes a long way with the manager.
In what sense? Doing what he's told and following instructions? Well, that's precisely what I said originally.
What other things are you suggesting that he is saying "yes" to?
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What I am saying is that in my opinion Bacuna is a yes man to Sherwood and that it goes a long way with the manager.
In what sense? Doing what he's told and following instructions? Well, that's precisely what I said originally.
What other things are you suggesting that he is saying "yes" to?
Maybe I should say that because of his personality he gets on with the manager better.
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For the record, I think Richards would be better suited in the position of right back over anyone else
Richards has been pretty much brilliant so far at centre back, though. Right back is a problem, I worry every time Bacuna gets the ball in our half. Maybe Okore could play there when he's fit.
On topic, I like Westwood and don't think he should get stick for being a tidy player who retains possession.
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What I am saying is that in my opinion Bacuna is a yes man to Sherwood and that it goes a long way with the manager.
In what sense? Doing what he's told and following instructions? Well, that's precisely what I said originally.
What other things are you suggesting that he is saying "yes" to?
Maybe I should say that because of his personality he gets on with the manager better.
I find your position hard to believe.
It used to do my head in when I was running a team that the nicest lads were usually the shittest, but as much as I'd prefer to start with them you don't because you want to win. And there's nothing like my career on line.
I think we've all thought of managers like that before, but I don't think it really stands up to scrutiny.
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The Bacuna vs Hutton preferential treatment debate doesn't hold any water at all as TS has switched between them regularly this season.
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You tell me
I would guess not. A manager might pick a player because he feels that he is better at following his instructions over a better player who doesn't.
Is that any different to having 'favourites'?
In my eyes yes.
Are you telling me that when Bacuna plays at right back it's because Sherwood feels he can follow instructions better than Hutton or Richards?
Presumably either that or that he just thinks that Bacuna gives the team more in that position than Hutton.
If it were neither of those two things, what else would there be that makes him a 'favourite'?
Look at it from my side. Bacuna is not and never will be a right back, so I believe that Sherwood maybe prefers his character than that of his alternative. He maybe a yes man, arse licker, call it what you wish and that suits the manager
I'm sorry, but that's just rubbish. Some manager's just like certain players, it happens. It's probably why he wanted to work with Adebayor again.
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For all his inconsistencies and faults, Bacuna is a far better attacking/creative threat than Hutton. Sherwood thinks we more of an attacking threat with Bacuna and that's why he played him at the end of last season (and presumably this).
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I confess to be somewhat old fashioned and therefore a little unimpressed when people praise Westwood by saying things like he keeps the ball moving, and he keeps play ticking over. I've no real idea what keeping play ticking over means, or why it is supposedly a good thing. Or why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired. I'd prefer a player held on to it rather than keep it moving in the general direction of the opposition, as Westwood all too frequently does. I'd rather have a player who can put a foot in to win the ball, keep hold of it when he needs to, play the right pass at the right time, play an occasional killer pass, get some goals and assists, take a decent set piece, get forward and back quickly and effectively, and impose himself on the game and the opposition especially when we're under pressure. The kind of things that unfortunately Westwood regularly demonstrates he's not very good at. I just don't think he's particularly good I guess, but then I didn't rate Petrov much either.
You don't understand why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired?
Not every pass can be a killer pass but keeping possession until that opportunity arises is a fundamental part of the game - the water carrier as Cantona described them - and essential to any team. The wrong player in that role results in things like over ambitious passes or dribbles in your own half. There are obviously better players at it than Westwood (then again you could say that for all of our squad) but not to have anyone playing the role because you don't understand it is a dangerous game to play. I think Sherwood likes him because it is the role he used to do himself.
Isn't football all about moving a football around? It is not something that strikes me as particularly valuable in itself, it has to be moved with purpose. I fully understand that at times that purpose may be to shift around the opposition to open up a gap when they are sitting deep, but at other times there will be the opportunity to do a whole lot more . At those times, your basic water carrier type can become a liability unless he has something else to offer. And in Westwood's case he too often drops his bucket by playing it straight at an opponent or getting hustled off the ball way too easily. As for being essential to any team , is that really the case? Do top teams have players whose main talent is that they keep the ball moving? You might point to the likes of Xavi and Iniesta in the successful tika taka teams of Spain and Barcelona, but they were also capable of a lot more besides when the time was right.
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I confess to be somewhat old fashioned and therefore a little unimpressed when people praise Westwood by saying things like he keeps the ball moving, and he keeps play ticking over. I've no real idea what keeping play ticking over means, or why it is supposedly a good thing. Or why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired. I'd prefer a player held on to it rather than keep it moving in the general direction of the opposition, as Westwood all too frequently does. I'd rather have a player who can put a foot in to win the ball, keep hold of it when he needs to, play the right pass at the right time, play an occasional killer pass, get some goals and assists, take a decent set piece, get forward and back quickly and effectively, and impose himself on the game and the opposition especially when we're under pressure. The kind of things that unfortunately Westwood regularly demonstrates he's not very good at. I just don't think he's particularly good I guess, but then I didn't rate Petrov much either.
You don't understand why keeping the ball moving is something to be admired?
Not every pass can be a killer pass but keeping possession until that opportunity arises is a fundamental part of the game - the water carrier as Cantona described them - and essential to any team. The wrong player in that role results in things like over ambitious passes or dribbles in your own half. There are obviously better players at it than Westwood (then again you could say that for all of our squad) but not to have anyone playing the role because you don't understand it is a dangerous game to play. I think Sherwood likes him because it is the role he used to do himself.
Isn't football all about moving a football around? It is not something that strikes me as particularly valuable in itself, it has to be moved with purpose. I fully understand that at times that purpose may be to shift around the opposition to open up a gap when they are sitting deep, but at other times there will be the opportunity to do a whole lot more . At those times, your basic water carrier type can become a liability unless he has something else to offer. And in Westwood's case he too often drops his bucket by playing it straight at an opponent or getting hustled off the ball way too easily. As for being essential to any team , is that really the case? Do top teams have players whose main talent is that they keep the ball moving? You might point to the likes of Xavi and Iniesta in the successful tika taka teams of Spain and Barcelona, but they were also capable of a lot more besides when the time was right.
For a long time, that's basically what Michael Carrick did, which was pass the ball to Scholes and be available for a return pass when nothing was on, and many people slagged the shit out of him until eventually they realised that there had to be something handy about a player who was started every game by probably the most successful manager of all time, in what probably was his greatest side. Sure, Carrick is better defensively because he doesn't get shrugged off the ball as easily and he reads the game better, but he serves the same fundamental purpose as Westwood does, although he does it better because he can make those passes to feet to players who find space between midfield and defence. You could say the same about Busquets. Arsenal used to have Arteta to do basically the same thing before his legs went, and Wenger considered him important enough to make him captain. I mean, look at this Youtube video: (well, just a couple of minutes is fine), and tell me if there's anything there that Westwood would definitely be incapable of managing (apart from the decent corners).
I agree that Westwood has to offer more on the whole, but there is specific skill involved in being able to find space to get on the ball in midfield, and move it around. As for "moving with purpose", that's more of the job of the attackers you have. The top-class midfielders can create from deep, but for the rest it's about getting the ball to the attackers in reasonable positions (not necessarily goalscoring opportunities) and Westwood does that bit fine. We're just not quite good enough as a team to carry a specialist like him.
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When Sven G-E was England manager he was asked why he never picked Gazza Bazza: he answered "I just don't like him".
Barry went on to win dozens of caps, later.
Why was TSM so fixated on buying NZog? - he'd hardly been a consistent performer, yet TSM tried to buy him at the Sty and then immediately did so when at our place.
Managers convince themselves about the pros and cons of certain players, almost without rationale.
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RE Carrick and Westwood, Carrick's range of passing was/is on a complete different level to Westwood's.
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RE Carrick and Westwood, Carrick's range of passing was/is on a complete different level to Westwood's.
When Sven G-E was England manager he was asked why he never picked Gazza Bazza: he answered "I just don't like him".
Barry went on to win dozens of caps, later.
Why was TSM so fixated on buying NZog? - he'd hardly been a consistent performer, yet TSM tried to buy him at the Sty and then immediately did so when at our place.
Managers convince themselves about the pros and cons of certain players, almost without rationale.
Oh I'm sure there is plenty of rationale behind the decision in much the same way as we see that "must have item" in the shop and only find out after you've bought it that actually it is a bit shit
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There is a big difference between (i) just moving the ball around for the sake of it and (ii) probing for openings. I think Westwood is more inclined towards the former.
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If westwood plays tomorrow I hope he's at least relieved of corner duties. They are infuriating.
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If westwood plays tomorrow I hope he's at least relieved of corner duties. They are infuriating.
Everton use Baines (when he is fit) for most dead ball kicks. I wonder what Amavi would be like or put it another way, he couldn't be much worse than we have had to put up with the last couple of years. From memory, through the haze of crapness last year, our best corners were by Grealish and Gill, so why not now?
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There is a big difference between (i) just moving the ball around for the sake of it and (ii) probing for openings. I think Westwood is more inclined towards the former.
Except (i) is still a useful skill, which you have to do when (ii) is not on, especially when the other team is pressing and trying to win the ball back in a hurry. Maybe Westwood doesn't do enough of (ii), but that doesn't mean he's worthless because he's more inclined towards (i)
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If westwood plays tomorrow I hope he's at least relieved of corner duties. They are infuriating.
Everton use Baines (when he is fit) for most dead ball kicks. I wonder what Amavi would be like or put it another way, he couldn't be much worse than we have had to put up with the last couple of years. From memory, through the haze of crapness last year, our best corners were by Grealish and Gill, so why not now?
Grealish would take 3 or 4 really good corners and then they would go to shit. I don't see why he can't take the first few and then let someone else the moment the quality drops.
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There is a big difference between (i) just moving the ball around for the sake of it and (ii) probing for openings. I think Westwood is more inclined towards the former.
Except (i) is still a useful skill, which you have to do when (ii) is not on, especially when the other team is pressing and trying to win the ball back in a hurry. Maybe Westwood doesn't do enough of (ii), but that doesn't mean he's worthless because he's more inclined towards (i)
No, you should only use (i) if you are trying to waste time. You should always be looking to do (ii), which involves moving the ball around to draw players out and creates the openings. If the opposition is pressing, you use short passes to get behind them and past the first line of defence. If you are doing (i), you are just using energy for no reward.
Perhaps our lack of chances created last season was due to too much of (i).
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To be fair, sometimes the lack of movement from the forward players has restricted passing options for a lot of the players
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To be fair, sometimes the lack of movement from the forward players has restricted passing options for a lot of the players
Movement is the key to creating space and openings all over the pitch. It also makes passing so much easier.
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When Sven G-E was England manager he was asked why he never picked Gazza Bazza: he answered "I just don't like him".
Barry went on to win dozens of caps, later.
Why was TSM so fixated on buying NZog? - he'd hardly been a consistent performer, yet TSM tried to buy him at the Sty and then immediately did so when at our place.
Managers convince themselves about the pros and cons of certain players, almost without rationale.
I don't think the ultra defensive minded Sven's "dislike" of GB was without rationale. Barry, for all his undoubted natural ability, would make a lateral pass to the opposition in a very dangerous area at least once every game. I know Sven is a Swede, but he he is an Italian in football terms and GB's peccadillo is not the Italian way.
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To be fair, sometimes the lack of movement from the forward players has restricted passing options for a lot of the players
Movement is the key to creating space and openings all over the pitch. It also makes passing so much easier.
Couldn't agree more.
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To be fair, sometimes the lack of movement from the forward players has restricted passing options for a lot of the players
Movement is the key to creating space and openings all over the pitch. It also makes passing so much easier.
Couldn't agree more.
Movement - the lack of it off the ball - has been our most chronic failing for most of the last twenty years or so. It drives me absolutely nuts.
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The thing is most of our players now are comfortable on the ball, so they should be happy to accept it in sometimes tight positions. Hate t when a player passes and just stands still
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To be fair, sometimes the lack of movement from the forward players has restricted passing options for a lot of the players
Movement is the key to creating space and openings all over the pitch. It also makes passing so much easier.
Couldn't agree more.
Movement - the lack of it off the ball - has been our most chronic failing for most of the last twenty years or so. It drives me absolutely nuts.
Absolutely agree. The lack of movement from our forward line is pathetic at best. There have been far too many times in recent games where they stand there like statues next to their markers. Against Blose on Tuesday, we saw Gabby, Gestede and Sinclair literally standing next to each other in the box and neither of them made a run or found space with midfield looking for the next ball. Very frustrating to watch.
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There is a big difference between (i) just moving the ball around for the sake of it and (ii) probing for openings. I think Westwood is more inclined towards the former.
Except (i) is still a useful skill, which you have to do when (ii) is not on, especially when the other team is pressing and trying to win the ball back in a hurry. Maybe Westwood doesn't do enough of (ii), but that doesn't mean he's worthless because he's more inclined towards (i)
No, you should only use (i) if you are trying to waste time. You should always be looking to do (ii), which involves moving the ball around to draw players out and creates the openings. If the opposition is pressing, you use short passes to get behind them and past the first line of defence. If you are doing (i), you are just using energy for no reward.
Perhaps our lack of chances created last season was due to too much of (i).
I guess we've got different understandings of the two. As far as I'm concerned, moving the ball around for the sake of it does in fact draw players out, providing that they're not being instructed to sit deep. I see (ii) as more being able to spot a through ball or a chipped ball over the top, or running at a defender with the direct intention of playing a quick one-two to get past them, or drawing them out only to slip the ball to someone else at the last moment.
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To be fair, sometimes the lack of movement from the forward players has restricted passing options for a lot of the players
Movement is the key to creating space and openings all over the pitch. It also makes passing so much easier.
Couldn't agree more.
Movement - the lack of it off the ball - has been our most chronic failing for most of the last twenty years or so. It drives me absolutely nuts.
Absolutely agree. The lack of movement from our forward line is pathetic at best. There have been far too many times in recent games where they stand there like statues next to their markers. Against Blose on Tuesday, we saw Gabby, Gestede and Sinclair literally standing next to each other in the box and neither of them made a run or found space with midfield looking for the next ball. Very frustrating to watch.
you could have thrown a duvet over all 3 they were that close at times
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The reason why Jack Grealish is so effective is that he creates spaces for his own players to exploit. The penny drops and they start to move. At the opposite end the scale N'Zogbia runs into dead ends created by the defence and they all play statues. The unfolding waste of a good player that is Libor Kozak underscores the inability of those preferred to him to get in positions to threaten the opposition goal.
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There is a big difference between (i) just moving the ball around for the sake of it and (ii) probing for openings. I think Westwood is more inclined towards the former.
Except (i) is still a useful skill, which you have to do when (ii) is not on, especially when the other team is pressing and trying to win the ball back in a hurry. Maybe Westwood doesn't do enough of (ii), but that doesn't mean he's worthless because he's more inclined towards (i)
No, you should only use (i) if you are trying to waste time. You should always be looking to do (ii), which involves moving the ball around to draw players out and creates the openings. If the opposition is pressing, you use short passes to get behind them and past the first line of defence. If you are doing (i), you are just using energy for no reward.
Perhaps our lack of chances created last season was due to too much of (i).
I guess we've got different understandings of the two. As far as I'm concerned, moving the ball around for the sake of it does in fact draw players out, providing that they're not being instructed to sit deep. I see (ii) as more being able to spot a through ball or a chipped ball over the top, or running at a defender with the direct intention of playing a quick one-two to get past them, or drawing them out only to slip the ball to someone else at the last moment.
I'm enjoying a man known as "passitsideways" defending Ashley Westwood.
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(sings) Are you Wilkins in disguise?
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There is a big difference between (i) just moving the ball around for the sake of it and (ii) probing for openings. I think Westwood is more inclined towards the former.
Except (i) is still a useful skill, which you have to do when (ii) is not on, especially when the other team is pressing and trying to win the ball back in a hurry. Maybe Westwood doesn't do enough of (ii), but that doesn't mean he's worthless because he's more inclined towards (i)
No, you should only use (i) if you are trying to waste time. You should always be looking to do (ii), which involves moving the ball around to draw players out and creates the openings. If the opposition is pressing, you use short passes to get behind them and past the first line of defence. If you are doing (i), you are just using energy for no reward.
Perhaps our lack of chances created last season was due to too much of (i).
I guess we've got different understandings of the two. As far as I'm concerned, moving the ball around for the sake of it does in fact draw players out, providing that they're not being instructed to sit deep. I see (ii) as more being able to spot a through ball or a chipped ball over the top, or running at a defender with the direct intention of playing a quick one-two to get past them, or drawing them out only to slip the ball to someone else at the last moment.
I'm enjoying a man known as "passitsideways" defending Ashley Westwood.
I prefer to call it fate.
(The odd thing is that I'm pretty sure I've said on multiple occasions here that I'd rather not have him start for us, yet here I am defending his general ability as a footballer.)
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He's a tidy player, but something that really rankles me is his apparent reluctance to back himself when it comes to playing a longer cross-field pass through the air. It frustrates me when we have to put in an extra pass to get the ball out wide to a player in an advanced position. Yeah, we've kept the ball, but we've lost a lot of impetus.
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Bottom line is he's too slow, weak and ineffective to push us up the league , if you want to be in the 15th - 20th league slots westwood in central midfield is your man
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To be fair, sometimes the lack of movement from the forward players has restricted passing options for a lot of the players
Movement is the key to creating space and openings all over the pitch. It also makes passing so much easier.
Couldn't agree more.
Movement - the lack of it off the ball - has been our most chronic failing for most of the last twenty years or so. It drives me absolutely nuts.
Absolutely agree. The lack of movement from our forward line is pathetic at best. There have been far too many times in recent games where they stand there like statues next to their markers. Against Blose on Tuesday, we saw Gabby, Gestede and Sinclair literally standing next to each other in the box and neither of them made a run or found space with midfield looking for the next ball. Very frustrating to watch.
And you would think easy to put right
Compare with the goals scored by Callum Wilson and Watford last week which were all about movement off the ball
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Bottom line is he's too slow, weak and ineffective to push us up the league , if you want to be in the 15th - 20th league slots westwood in central midfield is your man
this
he wouldnt get a start in any top ten side, the epitomy of a nothing player for me
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Bottom line is he's too slow, weak and ineffective to push us up the league , if you want to be in the 15th - 20th league slots westwood in central midfield is your man
this
he wouldnt get a start in any top ten side, the epitomy of a nothing player for me
I think he's probably Championship. In the Prem, at best he should be a squaddie for a bottom 6 side.
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He's in the right place for the moment then,
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Bottom line is he's too slow, weak and ineffective to push us up the league , if you want to be in the 15th - 20th league slots westwood in central midfield is your man
this
he wouldnt get a start in any top ten side, the epitomy of a nothing player for me
I think he's probably Championship. In the Prem, at best he should be a squaddie for a bottom 6 side.
definately
verteBottom line is he's too slow, weak and ineffective to push us up the league , if you want to be in the 15th - 20th league slots westwood in central midfield is your man
this
he wouldnt get a start in any top ten side, the epitomy of a nothing player for me
I think he's probably Championship. In the Prem, at best he should be a squaddie for a bottom 6 side.
definately
veretout over him for me, looks more comfortable on the ball and would offer more going forward
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He's fucking useless. I've just got home after a good day to see him, once again in the starting lineup. Just fuck off, Westwood. Veretout is far superior, played well midweek and deserves to retain his spot.
Westwood...I despair.
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Sometimes you get what you deserve in football. Playing the likes of Westwood every week won't see us move forward. Decent player but decent won't move us forward.
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Sometimes you get what you deserve in football. Playing the likes of Westwood every week won't see us move forward. Decent player but decent won't move us forward.
He isn't decent, he's bobbins.
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With games now analysed to the 'enth degree, I can't understand how nobody at Aston Villa has noticed how shite these corners from AW are.
He actually bent one in against Blues and it caused some defensive panic.
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He's just awful. Every move that goes through Westwood breaks down, he hides behind opposition players, and points rather follows his man. That's before you even mention his set-pieces.
Offers absolutely nothing. And when you've been shit for four years, look at some of the common denominators...
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League 1 player at best
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No suprise that we continue to struggle near the bottom when the likes of Westwood continue to shuffle onto the field. When I think some of the great midfielders I've seen at the club over the years, this perpetual loser isn't fit to lace their boots.
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He is wank.
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He's crap. Some players you don't notice them until they're out. Westwood you always notice because he's totemic for our current malaise. In a decade's time you'll only remember him for the fact he played in an FA Cup Final, if you can bear to think about it.
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With games now analysed to the 'enth degree, I can't understand how nobody at Aston Villa has noticed how shite these corners from AW are.
He actually bent one in against Blues and it caused some defensive panic.
It's genuinely terrifying that nobody seems to have spotted that his corners are consistently shit. I can barely watch when he gets ready to take one. At the very least you'd expect a player to be able to take a corner without spooning it out of play or straight to an opposing player.
Is it a case that the coaching staff can't see it or they don't want to see it.
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Fucking atrocious player, I hate seeing him play for us.
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Been saying it for three years, his negatives outweigh his positives.
Got Wolverhampton Wanderers written all over him.
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I'm not a fan by any stretch, but he seems to be going through a rough trot form-wise.
A player we do need an upgrade on, if we want to move away from the arse end of the table. I wouldn't be against him coming on as an option from the bench to slow things down when required. So I wouldn't be chasing him out to Wolves or anywhere similar just yet.
But we do need better.
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He can do one thing, and one thing only and he isn't even very good at that. And I simply can't get over the fact that he's got a new 5 year contact.
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He can do one thing, and one thing only and he isn't even very good at that. And I simply can't get over the fact that he's got a new 5 year contact.
Realy had high hooes for him at the start. The new Dennis Mortimer, I thought, how wrong I was
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He can do one thing, and one thing only and he isn't even very good at that. And I simply can't get over the fact that he's got a new 5 year contact.
a poor excuse for a footballer, in his time here he is getting worse
tippy fucking tappy sideways fucking pointing shithouse bottler
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I think he's a scapegoat, but he's useless in our current setup because we don't need a third midfielder whose only skill is to keep the ball. Just play Veretout and work through his growing pains, or go to a two-man midfield with Sanchez/Gana.
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I think he's a scapegoat, but he's useless in our current setup because we don't need a third midfielder whose only skill is to keep the ball. Just play Veretout and work through his growing pains, or go to a two-man midfield with Sanchez/Gana.
He's not a scapegoat. He's a reason for where we are. Not the only one. Just an obvious one.
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I think he's a scapegoat, but he's useless in our current setup because we don't need a third midfielder whose only skill is to keep the ball. Just play Veretout and work through his growing pains, or go to a two-man midfield with Sanchez/Gana.
He's not a scapegoat. He's a reason for where we are. Not the only one. Just an obvious one.
It's collective shitness; I don't think he really stood out in how poor he was. The other individual player threads aren't exactly filled up with posts tonight denigrating their performance.
I just don't really see how someone as bland as Westwood can inspire such vitriol.
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Frustration. We've watched this shit for so long.People are despairing of it ever ending.
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Worrying thing is Westwood just like Gabby seems to be a nailed on selection as far as Sherwood is concerned. Wish someone could actually tell me what he brings to the team
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Worrying thing is Westwood just like Gabby seems to be a nailed on selection as far as Sherwood is concerned. Wish someone could actually tell me what he brings to the team
The only thing I can think of is wanting to keep a British midfielder who understands the league down the spine of the team, which on the face of it seems fair enough. The problem is the standard he achieves is worthy of a bottom 5 Premier League team at best. Surely Sherwood and Wilkins must see he's not up to it by now?
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I like Westwood, I've seen him play well often and I think he really adds something to the team when on form. However, I can't argue even with people who don't rate him that he's going through a very bad spell at the moment - nothing overt, he just looks lost, like a player without a role, almost like he's playing without clear instructions. And for Christ's sake, either he should be told to do something else with his corners or be taken off them, because the flighty-floaty nonsense couldn't be working less well at the moment.
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I think it would be better if we started to take different types of corner because it's just so predictable it makes you wonder if any one else wants to do it
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I think it would be better if we started to take different types of corner because it's just so predictable it makes you wonder if any one else wants to do it
It would be nice if they tried a rehearsed short corner or any sort of corner. They rarely work but it would show that they're putting in some extra work in training. MOTD highlighted a team's routine last week (can't remember which), we just seem to wing it as opposed to have some sort of plan.
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It would be really nice if he was sat in a racing seat on the sidelines on Saturday instead.
He's a bloody awful League 1 player.
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It would be really nice if he was sat in a racing seat on the sidelines on Saturday instead.
He's a bloody awful League 1 player.
It'll be his 100th league game tomorrow
The Stoke fans would be singing '100 games and done fuck all' but they'll probably forget he's on the pitch
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It would be really nice if he was sat in a racing seat on the sidelines on Saturday instead.
He's a bloody awful League 1 player.
He's one the few mainstays in our last couple years of drudgery.
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It would be really nice if he was sat in a racing seat on the sidelines on Saturday instead.
He's a bloody awful League 1 player.
He's one the few mainstays in our last couple years of drudgery.
A shining beacon of below averageness.
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It would be really nice if he was sat in a racing seat on the sidelines on Saturday instead.
He's a bloody awful League 1 player.
It'll be his 100th league game tomorrow
The Stoke fans would be singing '100 games and done fuck all' but they'll probably forget he's on the pitch
It just shows what we have become when a player of westwoods level plays a 100 league games in just over 3 seasons. :-\
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I sincerely hope he never reads this thread. Shouldn't this amount of vitriol be reserved for players that have deliberately sabotaged the club rather than an earnest pro, who might not be quite good enough?
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I sincerely hope he never reads this thread. Shouldn't this amount of vitriol be reserved for players that have deliberately sabotaged the club rather than an earnest pro, who might not be quite good enough?
It's hardly vitriol.
It is part of the deal. They pull in 20k a week, we pay stupid ticket prices, we get to complain about them.
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I sincerely hope he never reads this thread. Shouldn't this amount of vitriol be reserved for players that have deliberately sabotaged the club rather than an earnest pro, who might not be quite good enough?
It's hardly vitriol.
It is part of the deal. They pull in 20k a week, we pay stupid ticket prices, we get to complain about them.
Fair enough. Probably why I never made it as a footballer, I took any criticism far to too literally. That and the two left feet etc. etc....
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Another complete non-entity of a performance from Westwood. Waste of a good shirt.
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Shit.
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I think Westwood sums up the Villa over the last 5 years. Totally inept, completely out of his depth and a product of a chronic lack of ambition.
If I ever see him take another set piece again I might kill someone.
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I think Westwood sums up the Villa over the last 5 years. Totally inept, completely out of his depth and a product of a chronic lack of ambition.
If I ever see him take another set piece again I might kill someone.
I completely agree - his set pieces are pathetic . But no more pathetic than the other outfield players who let him take every one .
Why doesn't one of those gutless wonders stand up and take them ?
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I think Westwood sums up the Villa over the last 5 years. Totally inept, completely out of his depth and a product of a chronic lack of ambition.
If I ever see him take another set piece again I might kill someone.
I completely agree - his set pieces are pathetic . But no more pathetic than the other outfield players who let him take every one .
Why doesn't one of those gutless wonders stand up and take them ?
Because we have no leaders. The definition of stupidity as they say is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different outcome, that sums up Westwood's corners. We are thick as shit.
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I think Westwood sums up the Villa over the last 5 years. Totally inept, completely out of his depth and a product of a chronic lack of ambition.
If I ever see him take another set piece again I might kill someone.
I completely agree - his set pieces are pathetic . But no more pathetic than the other outfield players who let him take every one .
Why doesn't one of those gutless wonders stand up and take them ?
Because we have no leaders. The definition of stupidity as they say is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different outcome, that sums up Westwood's corners. We are thick as shit.
Nail on head .
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Soon as I saw his inevitable inclusion on the team sheet I knew we'd lose the centre of the park and be seeing crap corners yet again
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So why does he get a game week in - week out?
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So why does he get a game week in - week out?
He's got the Heskey magic. Managers and teammates love him but fans think he is shit.
I think he's shit.
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He must make a cracking cup of tea.
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So why does he get a game week in - week out?
He's got the Heskey magic. Managers and teammates love him but fans think he is shit.
I think he's shit.
He is shit.
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So why does he get a game week in - week out?
He's got the Heskey magic. Managers and teammates love him but fans think he is shit.
I think he's shit.
I'm with you
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He was much improved yesterday I thought. And I wish he'd been on the pitch to take that corner in injury time. It might have made it into the opposition penalty area if he had been.
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Unlike the previous couple of games where he was genuinely poor, I don't know why people are marching on here to give him further treatment for yesterday. He actually moved the ball forward, won it a few times in defense, and created our best chance with the sort of purposeful forward run we've been begging him to make.
I'd also make the point that while Veretout and Grealish's deliveries looked a lot better, they were easily cleared anyway, so I think that speaks for just how much people overrate the threat of each individual corner, just because we're shit at defending them.
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I like Westwood in that he's a decent passer of the ball, he's certainly not "shit" by the definition I would have used of that word with respect to, say, Heskey.
I just don't think we can afford to carry a player who does that well but everything else so badly.
I also think Veretout looks like a duplicate of Westwood except he makes himself look much busier around the pitch and doesn't follow up every pass with a few minutes of walking around.
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I wasn't at the match but from the stream I was watching, there seemed to be a huge amount of ironic applause when he went off and Gil came on. That struck me as not massively helpful.
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I like Westwood in that he's a decent passer of the ball, he's certainly not "shit" by the definition I would have used of that word with respect to, say, Heskey.
I just don't think we can afford to carry a player who does that well but everything else so badly.
I also think Veretout looks like a duplicate of Westwood except he makes himself look much busier around the pitch and doesn't follow up every pass with a few minutes of walking around.
I don't think Veretout is anything like Westwood personally. I think he'd be really good as an attacking midfielder which is where I think he played for his last club.
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I wasn't at the match but from the stream I was watching, there seemed to be a huge amount of ironic applause when he went off and Gil came on. That struck me as not massively helpful.
True, but fans are frustrated and it can't be helped. The boos at the end were fully deserved as well.
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I wasn't at the match but from the stream I was watching, there seemed to be a huge amount of ironic applause when he went off and Gil came on. That struck me as not massively helpful.
It's helpful if the cockney chancer heard and took note of it.
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I thought Westwood did OK, he certainly put some tackles in and closed down opponents in a way that sometimes he avoids.
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I wasn't at the match but from the stream I was watching, there seemed to be a huge amount of ironic applause when he went off and Gil came on. That struck me as not massively helpful.
It's not helpful but I'm of the opinion now that fans are at breaking point. How much more can they just sit their and politely clap and encourage, it's not a minor blip it's been going on for years and nothing looks like it's changing. They don't deserve unending support, they've done nothing to earn, the fans are supporting their club by turning up week after week pretty much for nothing, there's no entertainment or enjoyment is there really. So they are doing their bit, it's time for the rest of the club to do their bit, Westwood has been part and parcel of a terrible team for years now, he's going to take some stick.
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I wasn't at the match but from the stream I was watching, there seemed to be a huge amount of ironic applause when he went off and Gil came on. That struck me as not massively helpful.
I was there and it was horrible I thought. He was the best of our midfield three. The other two were a joke.
He is far from a world beater but has become an undeserved scapegoat for the masses. What about our big money signings?
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I wasn't at the match but from the stream I was watching, there seemed to be a huge amount of ironic applause when he went off and Gil came on. That struck me as not massively helpful.
I was there and it was horrible I thought. He was the best of our midfield three. The other two were a joke.
He is far from a world beater but has become an undeserved scapegoat for the masses. What about our big money signings?
Gana didn't have his best game yesterday. Veretout was decent I thought though.
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I cannot see that. He's nowhere near as good as Veretout and Gana.
Both can tackle, both can drive the game on. Time and again Westwood let a midfielder run off him. He's going to drive me to murder the useless pointing bugger.
How about you stop pointing at the man whose drifted into acres of space behind you and track him you clown? Mind you, when he does get close, he's so lightweight that he's knocked away like a rag doll.
I can also see why he only passes five yards and to the side, as he's garbage playing it forwards. Four times he lofted a ball into a stripey shirt.
He is dross. There is no way any cogent argument can be made for him being a Premier League standard midfielder. He cannot cover a defence, he cannot drive the ball on and beat a man. His set pieces are so bad they're laughable.
I am sick and tired of watching useless twats like Westwood stink out our midfield.
And we gave this prick a five year deal.
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Crap. End of.
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I wasn't at the match but from the stream I was watching, there seemed to be a huge amount of ironic applause when he went off and Gil came on. That struck me as not massively helpful.
I was there and thought the ironic cheers were more for Gil coming on than Westwood going off.
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I find him a nice and neat player which doesn't help when we need to battle for a victory.
I can't really figure out what his role is. He isn't direct enough to be an attacking midfielder and he is too lightweight to be a defensive Midfielder.
He definitely needs to be taken off corners, We have decent options in Gestede, Richards and Lescott but Westwood never picks anyone out.
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I've definitely seen him play very well in the past. He's not nothing, and I think there are some overreactions to his bad form on here.
That said, there's no question that he is not in good enough form to merit a place in the team. Bending over backwards to accommodate him just makes him and us worse, and he clearly just needs to sit out for a bit.
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I wasn't at the match but from the stream I was watching, there seemed to be a huge amount of ironic applause when he went off and Gil came on. That struck me as not massively helpful.
I was there and it was horrible I thought. He was the best of our midfield three. The other two were a joke.
He is far from a world beater but has become an undeserved scapegoat for the masses. What about our big money signings?
For how many years now has Westwood stunk out our midfield?
He deserves all the stick he gets, and more in my opinion, and the sooner he's gone the better.
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I wasn't at the match but from the stream I was watching, there seemed to be a huge amount of ironic applause when he went off and Gil came on. That struck me as not massively helpful.
I was there and thought the ironic cheers were more for Gil coming on than Westwood going off.
I thought that as well.
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I wasn't at the match but from the stream I was watching, there seemed to be a huge amount of ironic applause when he went off and Gil came on. That struck me as not massively helpful.
I was there and it was horrible I thought. He was the best of our midfield three. The other two were a joke.
He is far from a world beater but has become an undeserved scapegoat for the masses. What about our big money signings?
For how many years now has Westwood stunk out our midfield?
He deserves all the stick he gets, and more in my opinion, and the sooner he's gone the better.
This. He's had ample time to improve and has been nothing more than a stinking example of how shit our side is. Fabian Delph is what you'd call a decent premiership midfield. Certainly not really what you'd call top 6 quality, despite his City move (bastard, c**t, etc). All you need to know about Westwood is the fact he looked a country fucking mile from being able to grab a game in the way Delph can. Different style of player granted, but still, a midfielder in this league has to stamp their authority on a game some how. They can do this be dictating the pace of the game. They can do it through skill. They can do it through dynamism (Delph), or they can muller some fucking shins. Westwood does none of that. He'll have 5-6 games (maximum) a season of looking the part. But the vast majority of games he just seems to disappear. Not in a good way.
I appreciate that some midfielders go along without being noticed much and not getting credit. Someone like Carrick, but what ends up happening is, the eventually do get noticed and they do get the credit. It's not like Carrick is short of admirers (and he's be no means brilliant).
Westwood just vanishes. Not in a good way. Not in a way that in any way helps us. If it did help us we wouldn't lose 99% of midfield bastard battles we go into. We even look shite against lower league sides all too often.
No more time. No more excuses. Get rid. Then we'll see just how quickly he slides down the leagues.
Likewise, Bacuna shouldn't be anywhere near a Premiership side.
Hutton did okay well last season but he's 31 now and shouldn't have been given the contract he was and will only get worse.
Lescott is looking for us much like Rio Ferdinand looked for QPR. One year too many.
All the young newbies deserve time to adapt. Dross like Westwood have had too much.
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I wasn't at the match but from the stream I was watching, there seemed to be a huge amount of ironic applause when he went off and Gil came on. That struck me as not massively helpful.
I was there and it was horrible I thought. He was the best of our midfield three. The other two were a joke.
He is far from a world beater but has become an undeserved scapegoat for the masses. What about our big money signings?
For how many years now has Westwood stunk out our midfield?
He deserves all the stick he gets, and more in my opinion, and the sooner he's gone the better.
This. He's had ample time to improve and has been nothing more than a stinking example of how shit our side is. Fabian Delph is what you'd call a decent premiership midfield. Certainly not really what you'd call top 6 quality, despite his City move (bastard, c**t, etc). All you need to know about Westwood is the fact he looked a country fucking mile from being able to grab a game in the way Delph can. Different style of player granted, but still, a midfielder in this league has to stamp their authority on a game some how. They can do this be dictating the pace of the game. They can do it through skill. They can do it through dynamism (Delph), or they can muller some fucking shins. Westwood does none of that. He'll have 5-6 games (maximum) a season of looking the part. But the vast majority of games he just seems to disappear. Not in a good way.
I appreciate that some midfielders go along without being noticed much and not getting credit. Someone like Carrick, but what ends up happening is, the eventually do get noticed and they do get the credit. It's not like Carrick is short of admirers (and he's be no means brilliant).
Westwood just vanishes. Not in a good way. Not in a way that in any way helps us. If it did help us we wouldn't lose 99% of midfield bastard battles we go into. We even look shite against lower league sides all too often.
No more time. No more excuses. Get rid. Then we'll see just how quickly he slides down the leagues.
Likewise, Bacuna shouldn't be anywhere near a Premiership side.
Hutton did okay well last season but he's 31 now and shouldn't have been given the contract he was and will only get worse.
Lescott is looking for us much like Rio Ferdinand looked for QPR. One year too many.
All the young newbies deserve time to adapt. Dross like Westwood have had too much.
I have to agree I made similar points a few pages back. I thought he had a good first 20 minutes for his standards but then went completely missing. I don't know how anyone can say he was the best midfielder as all he did was recycle the ball from one defender to another for 5 minutes before Richards made something happen, Veretout was better because he have that run where he dribbled past 3 or 4 players and showed some nice skill in our box where he could have just hoofed the ball out straight to a stoke center half but played a couple of fast passes out to one of our players which I don't think Westwood is capable of. Gana actually puts a tackle in (which is more than what Westwood can do) then tried to get an attack going. On the booing I don't think it was aimed at Westwood it was aimed at Sherwood as we can't get a message through to him in any other way. Finally when he came off the difference was night and day we looked to go forward and looked like scoring but he still has an effect because I think Grealish took a corner which was there too be attacked at the front post but everyone is a couple of yards behind the back post because of the crap Westwood served up all game.
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I cannot see that. He's nowhere near as good as Veretout and Gana.
Both can tackle, both can drive the game on. Time and again Westwood let a midfielder run off him. He's going to drive me to murder the useless pointing bugger.
How about you stop pointing at the man whose drifted into acres of space behind you and track him you clown? Mind you, when he does get close, he's so lightweight that he's knocked away like a rag doll.
I can also see why he only passes five yards and to the side, as he's garbage playing it forwards. Four times he lofted a ball into a stripey shirt.
He is dross. There is no way any cogent argument can be made for him being a Premier League standard midfielder. He cannot cover a defence, he cannot drive the ball on and beat a man. His set pieces are so bad they're laughable.
I am sick and tired of watching useless twats like Westwood stink out our midfield.
And we gave this prick a five year deal.
this
its about time some of our shit players got some stick, fuck me its not like westwoods game is going to deteriorate is it, not when its been wank for two seasons
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I cannot see that. He's nowhere near as good as Veretout and Gana.
Both can tackle, both can drive the game on. Time and again Westwood let a midfielder run off him. He's going to drive me to murder the useless pointing bugger.
How about you stop pointing at the man whose drifted into acres of space behind you and track him you clown? Mind you, when he does get close, he's so lightweight that he's knocked away like a rag doll.
I can also see why he only passes five yards and to the side, as he's garbage playing it forwards. Four times he lofted a ball into a stripey shirt.
He is dross. There is no way any cogent argument can be made for him being a Premier League standard midfielder. He cannot cover a defence, he cannot drive the ball on and beat a man. His set pieces are so bad they're laughable.
I am sick and tired of watching useless twats like Westwood stink out our midfield.
And we gave this prick a five year deal.
Completely agree
Veretout is a defensive midfielder, who also possesses the ability to be a box to box and an attacking midfielder. Westwood is a sitting duck.
Veretout didn't have the best of games, but at least he was driving forward and making a few runs, like the one he went down in the box.
Also, at least with Veretout he's a young lad and you can see improvement with each game. Westwood has played 100 league games for us now and hasn't particularly improved at all.
Although to be fair, his performance against Stoke was slightly better that the games prior
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He's 25, not a kid now, he ain't getting any better.
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Well I am going to stick up for Westwood because I think he comes in for far too much criticism.
I have looked at the goal Villa conceded on Saturday numerous times and I suggest other people do as well. The ball broke to the Stoke player on our right hand side, Westwood was the only midfield player to try and close him down. When the Stoke player played it across to Glen Johnson, again Westwood was the only Villa player to try and close him down before he made the pass to Arnautovic. In the build up, Hutton just watched Arnautovic walk past him and did nothing, Gueye did absolutely nothing at all except move approximately two yards, no effort at all to get back, Amavi made a move forward of about five yards to close Glen Johnson down but realised that he had no chance and ended up marking nobody and doing nothing. Crespo had a Stoke player to mark as Amavi had left him unmarked. Perhaps Richards, although marking a Stoke player, should have left him to close Arnautovic down but what was Hutton doing? Westwood may have his faults but he is one of the few who is 100% committed, that may not be enough in the long run but it is the very least I expect from ANY Villa player!
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I've just watched the goal back again, Westwood is running around slowly like a headless chicken and Richards is hopelessly out of position. In fact just before the through ball is played, Arnautovic pulls away and Richards is talking and pointing to another defender and not watching play, very poor.
The three centre mids we're all on the one side and no one was sat in front of the defence protecting it as well. Positionally it's all very poor.
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I cannot see that. He's nowhere near as good as Veretout and Gana.
Both can tackle, both can drive the game on. Time and again Westwood let a midfielder run off him. He's going to drive me to murder the useless pointing bugger.
How about you stop pointing at the man whose drifted into acres of space behind you and track him you clown? Mind you, when he does get close, he's so lightweight that he's knocked away like a rag doll.
I can also see why he only passes five yards and to the side, as he's garbage playing it forwards. Four times he lofted a ball into a stripey shirt.
He is dross. There is no way any cogent argument can be made for him being a Premier League standard midfielder. He cannot cover a defence, he cannot drive the ball on and beat a man. His set pieces are so bad they're laughable.
I am sick and tired of watching useless twats like Westwood stink out our midfield.
And we gave this prick a five year deal.
Completely agree
Veretout is a defensive midfielder, who also possesses the ability to be a box to box and an attacking midfielder. Westwood is a sitting duck.
Veretout didn't have the best of games, but at least he was driving forward and making a few runs, like the one he went down in the box.
Also, at least with Veretout he's a young lad and you can see improvement with each game. Westwood has played 100 league games for us now and hasn't particularly improved at all.
Although to be fair, his performance against Stoke was slightly better that the games prior
Veretout is anything but a defensive midfielder.
Box to box - he doesnt have the stamina or the presence to be that either right now
Gana was shocking, probably the worst of the three against Stoke.
Lost the ball constantly, whinged at his team mates and walked around the pitch like he owned it.
If ever a player was in need of the hairdryer treatment after the game it was him.
to be fair to the trio, it was impossible to know the direction given by our coaches to them pre game.
Which of them was meant to push forward? which one to sit deep and get the ball off the back four?
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I thought Gana was the best of the three, then veretout, then Westwood. Gana did nothing after half time though.
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Well I am going to stick up for Westwood because I think he comes in for far too much criticism.
I have looked at the goal Villa conceded on Saturday numerous times and I suggest other people do as well. The ball broke to the Stoke player on our right hand side, Westwood was the only midfield player to try and close him down. When the Stoke player played it across to Glen Johnson, again Westwood was the only Villa player to try and close him down before he made the pass to Arnautovic. In the build up, Hutton just watched Arnautovic walk past him and did nothing, Gueye did absolutely nothing at all except move approximately two yards, no effort at all to get back, Amavi made a move forward of about five yards to close Glen Johnson down but realised that he had no chance and ended up marking nobody and doing nothing. Crespo had a Stoke player to mark as Amavi had left him unmarked. Perhaps Richards, although marking a Stoke player, should have left him to close Arnautovic down but what was Hutton doing? Westwood may have his faults but he is one of the few who is 100% committed, that may not be enough in the long run but it is the very least I expect from ANY Villa player!
Richards was most at fault imo, Arnautovic was the most dangerous option for that Johnson pass.
Sure Hutton might not have got back to whoever was in front of him but Richards has to take responsibility for Arnautovic
Zero pressure on the pass of course, Gana nowhere to be seen and Amavi should have pressed out on Johnson too
Watching the game live I thought Crespo was at fault but he was probably the one member of our back four that should escape blame
Lescott was pub player esque for their chance in the first few mins that Richards blocked superbly
Clayton Donaldson and Jon Walters have now ensured his half time replacement in 2 of the last 3 games, not good
Arnautovic looked level with Crespo for their earlier disallowed goal too, they ripped us apart that time and had a 3 v 2 in our own box on the cross. abysmal
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Veretout might not be a defensive midfielder in the traditional sense.
He doesn't seem particularly adept at intercepting the ball or breaking up play.
But he has more physicality to his game than Westwood.
In truth, there isn't a huge amount of difference between them on current form at present. Slow and ponderous, and reluctant to play anything other than the sideways or backwards ball. Of all our summer signings, Veretout is one that disappointment me the most.
But there is the chance with more game time the penny will drop and he can grow into the role. After three years at the club, I don't think the same can be said for Westwood.
He might still have a role to play as a squad player, so I wouldn't write him off completely. But it will be a sign that we are progressing in the right direction when he no longer makes the starting XI.
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Veretout took the corners and free kicks at Nantes, so hopefully when he's fully fit this plodder will be off those duties.
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Well I am going to stick up for Westwood because I think he comes in for far too much criticism.
I have looked at the goal Villa conceded on Saturday numerous times and I suggest other people do as well. The ball broke to the Stoke player on our right hand side, Westwood was the only midfield player to try and close him down. When the Stoke player played it across to Glen Johnson, again Westwood was the only Villa player to try and close him down before he made the pass to Arnautovic. In the build up, Hutton just watched Arnautovic walk past him and did nothing, Gueye did absolutely nothing at all except move approximately two yards, no effort at all to get back, Amavi made a move forward of about five yards to close Glen Johnson down but realised that he had no chance and ended up marking nobody and doing nothing. Crespo had a Stoke player to mark as Amavi had left him unmarked. Perhaps Richards, although marking a Stoke player, should have left him to close Arnautovic down but what was Hutton doing? Westwood may have his faults but he is one of the few who is 100% committed, that may not be enough in the long run but it is the very least I expect from ANY Villa player!
I agree I think he's 100% committed to the cause and comes across as a decent pro. I just think we've seen more than enough of him to know he's never going to better the level we're currently at and drag us towards mid table. He's ok as a backup but I'd rather see us go forward with a midfield 3 of Sanchez, Gana and Veretout.
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Well I am going to stick up for Westwood because I think he comes in for far too much criticism.
I have looked at the goal Villa conceded on Saturday numerous times and I suggest other people do as well. The ball broke to the Stoke player on our right hand side, Westwood was the only midfield player to try and close him down. When the Stoke player played it across to Glen Johnson, again Westwood was the only Villa player to try and close him down before he made the pass to Arnautovic. In the build up, Hutton just watched Arnautovic walk past him and did nothing, Gueye did absolutely nothing at all except move approximately two yards, no effort at all to get back, Amavi made a move forward of about five yards to close Glen Johnson down but realised that he had no chance and ended up marking nobody and doing nothing. Crespo had a Stoke player to mark as Amavi had left him unmarked. Perhaps Richards, although marking a Stoke player, should have left him to close Arnautovic down but what was Hutton doing? Westwood may have his faults but he is one of the few who is 100% committed, that may not be enough in the long run but it is the very least I expect from ANY Villa player!
Richards was most at fault imo, Arnautovic was the most dangerous option for that Johnson pass.
Sure Hutton might not have got back to whoever was in front of him but Richards has to take responsibility for Arnautovic
Zero pressure on the pass of course, Gana nowhere to be seen and Amavi should have pressed out on Johnson too
Watching the game live I thought Crespo was at fault but he was probably the one member of our back four that should escape blame
Lescott was pub player esque for their chance in the first few mins that Richards blocked superbly
Clayton Donaldson and Jon Walters have now ensured his half time replacement in 2 of the last 3 games, not good
Arnautovic looked level with Crespo for their earlier disallowed goal too, they ripped us apart that time and had a 3 v 2 in our own box on the cross. abysmal
Agree - Richards at fault...as play moves across to the right Richards is keeping an eye on Walters, who is moving behind him...he points to Hutton to pick him up - which he does - while Richards himself starts to move across to close down Arnautovic, but too late...in that split second Arnautovic receives the ball and tucks it in.
From my seat it looked as though Arnautovic was in about 20 yards of space INSIDE our penalty area ffs!
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The simple truth of the matter is that Stoke cut us to shreds many times (not that it was hard to do) in the first half but we got away with it. The amount of space getting exposed in that 352/532 was ridiculous, and better teams would have punished us. The back 3 spread across the pitch with acres of space between them was alarmingly amateurish, and the midfield trio looked completely lost running around like headless chickens. I couldn't actually believe what I was watching at times.
Lets also not forget Lescott getting pulled and caught out of position AGAIN leaving Richards to make a last ditch challenge to save us within the first 10 minutes.
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Or the goal ruled out for offside that wasn't.
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Simply not good enough. How this snail paced, crab passing waste of a shirt keeps getting picked is beyond me.
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What is a defensive midfielder? I may be from the old school but don't understand it. Was Dennis Mortimer or Gordon Cowans the defensive midfielder? Lets get a grip, I understand Claude Makale being a sitting midfielder in a top team, but we are Aston fecking Villa. I got slagged off after having a go at the manager after the Blues game as I think he fecked up first half, think most people would not disagree now. However, I will back Sherwood for now but he has to sort things out pretty soon
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What is a defensive midfielder? I may be from the old school but don't understand it. Was Dennis Mortimer or Gordon Cowans the defensive midfielder? Lets get a grip, I understand Claude Makale being a sitting midfielder in a top team, but we are Aston fecking Villa. I got slagged off after having a go at the manager after the Blues game as I think he fecked up first half, think most people would not disagree now. However, I will back Sherwood for now but he has to sort things out pretty soon
Neither. Both Mortimer and cowans could attack and boy could Cowans tackle. Bremner could run all day and to be honest with our front three in 81/82 it didnt matter, we would just out score the opposition. Great days.
Westwood. Very average and would be at home in th championship. Three years ago I thought he would be our Mortimer, how wrong I was
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What is a defensive midfielder? I may be from the old school but don't understand it. Was Dennis Mortimer or Gordon Cowans the defensive midfielder? Lets get a grip, I understand Claude Makale being a sitting midfielder in a top team, but we are Aston fecking Villa. I got slagged off after having a go at the manager after the Blues game as I think he fecked up first half, think most people would not disagree now. However, I will back Sherwood for now but he has to sort things out pretty soon
Neither. Both Mortimer and cowans could attack and boy could Cowans tackle. Bremner could run all day and to be honest with our front three in 81/82 it didnt matter, we would just out score the opposition. Great days.
Westwood. Very average and would be at home in th championship. Three years ago I thought he would be our Mortimer, how wrong I was
I accept your point re Westwood not progressing and he is not better than Sanchez IMHO. As for 81/82, we had a great backbone, we don't now.
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What is a defensive midfielder? I may be from the old school but don't understand it. Was Dennis Mortimer or Gordon Cowans the defensive midfielder? Lets get a grip, I understand Claude Makale being a sitting midfielder in a top team, but we are Aston fecking Villa. I got slagged off after having a go at the manager after the Blues game as I think he fecked up first half, think most people would not disagree now. However, I will back Sherwood for now but he has to sort things out pretty soon
Using that logic, you might well ask "what is this second central defender nonsense? You only need one centre half or number 5! If you asked Slogger Sleeuwenhoek or George Curtis if they needed another centre half to hold their hand they would have told you where to go in no uncertain terms. And what is this Number 10 twaddle? Why is inside left more important than inside right? Don't get me started about the player in the hole or playing outside in!"
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(http://media.balls.ie/uploads/2014/01/york.gif)
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What is a defensive midfielder? I may be from the old school but don't understand it. Was Dennis Mortimer or Gordon Cowans the defensive midfielder? Lets get a grip, I understand Claude Makale being a sitting midfielder in a top team, but we are Aston fecking Villa. I got slagged off after having a go at the manager after the Blues game as I think he fecked up first half, think most people would not disagree now. However, I will back Sherwood for now but he has to sort things out pretty soon
I think all of them had defensive abilities, whereas Westwood has none unless you count pointing.
Bremner was the most defensively minded and provided a lot of cover for the other 2.
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Should never have been brought here in the first place. His career before being hoisted into the PL was spent in the bottom tier of the Football League. For Lambert's 'young and hungry' read 'cheap and may have some potential'. Not good enough then and not good enough now. Way out of his depth, offers nothing, and the fact he gets picked every week beggars belief. He either looks like Messi in training or he's got some incriminating files on people.
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Westwood looked a lot better when playing with Delphi where he got plenty of time and space to play the ball. I think more has been expected of him this season and he hasn't been up to it. The floating corners drive us all mad, but I believe this is a coaching instruction if we remember he replaced the master of the floated corner Barry Bannan.
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Should never have been brought here in the first place. His career before being hoisted into the PL was spent in the bottom tier of the Football League. For Lambert's 'young and hungry' read 'cheap and may have some potential'. Not good enough then and not good enough now. Way out of his depth, offers nothing, and the fact he gets picked every week beggars belief. He either looks like Messi in training or he's got some incriminating files on people.
He'd played a bit in the third tier as well. Same as Delph, and unlike Platt.
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Hoping he's dropped tomorrow, he won't be of course .
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Should never have been brought here in the first place. His career before being hoisted into the PL was spent in the bottom tier of the Football League. For Lambert's 'young and hungry' read 'cheap and may have some potential'. Not good enough then and not good enough now. Way out of his depth, offers nothing, and the fact he gets picked every week beggars belief. He either looks like Messi in training or he's got some incriminating files on people.
Well said. He sums up the state of the club to me. A dog turd of a player.
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What is a defensive midfielder? I may be from the old school but don't understand it. Was Dennis Mortimer or Gordon Cowans the defensive midfielder? Lets get a grip, I understand Claude Makale being a sitting midfielder in a top team, but we are Aston fecking Villa. I got slagged off after having a go at the manager after the Blues game as I think he fecked up first half, think most people would not disagree now. However, I will back Sherwood for now but he has to sort things out pretty soon
I think all of them had defensive abilities, whereas Westwood has none unless you count pointing.
Bremner was the most defensively minded and provided a lot of cover for the other 2.
Exactly my point, none of them were tagged with the defensive midfielder role.
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AW 1st goal 18/1
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AW 1st goal 18/1
surely they have missed a zero off
aw to take shit corners forever 1/50000000
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He's 40/1 to make a forward pass longer than 5 yards.
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Please take him off set pieces. He's hopeless with a dead ball.
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If he's in the starting 11 I might cry. If we we're playing poor during a long run of bad results, as a form of protest, I used to stop watching the match and read Heroes and Villains instead, I can't even do that anymore now it's digital, thanks a bloody lot!
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I will be pretty miffed if he starts today. And he definitely needs to come off corners.
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... He's hopeless with a dead ball.
Most blokes are.
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Thought he did OK yesterday, had to change roles when Sanchez went off but grew into the game, Anyone else think Garde can make a player out of Ashley?
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No he's crap. A midfield with him in it will be weak unless two of the others are very good.
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Thought he did OK yesterday, had to change roles when Sanchez went off but grew into the game, Anyone else think Garde can make a player out of Ashley?
no and i dont want him to
you have players like westwood being a regular for 3 seasons then you end up exactly where we are now
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Sanchez going off against West Ham brought Westy into the middle, where he saw more of the ball. That is never a good thing
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I agree UKR - until Sanchez' injury he was quite advanced and getting into good positions,far more forward than he usually does. Later he reverted to type being always available but then never being courageous enough to play that 'killer' ball. He will always go for the safety option and rarely runs with the ball. Perhaps Remi is considering Lydon for tomorrow's game?
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I was hoping that we'd have seen something of Calder in midfield this season. That lad has the size and power that the rest of the midfield options lack
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I was hoping that we'd have seen something of Calder in midfield this season. That lad has the size and power that the rest of the midfield options lack
isn't he out on loan?
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Isn't he on the bench for Dundee?? I had hoped he might after a positive pre season.
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Cant get in the Dundee team, but good enough for the premier league?? Westwood was good yesterday for me, he gets lots of stick and I am not greatest fan but really thought he was decent
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Been said before but if this is the quality of the type of player we aspire to then no wonder we are bottom. He is a lightweight midfielder who can pass a ball. However, there are other parts of the game that he really lacks. File under: replace.
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He aint brilliant I agree, but I thought he did well yesterday
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Yes mate, I agree. I also thought he played quite well at the barcodes too.
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Cant get in the Dundee team, but good enough for the premier league?? Westwood was good yesterday for me, he gets lots of stick and I am not greatest fan but really thought he was decent
I too thohgt he was ok yesterday. I thought Gana was our weakest link in midfield against Wham.
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No pace. No dribble. Can pass to the right shirt but only if it's sideways or backwards or less than 10 yards forwards. No goal threat. Awful set pieces. Doesn't win the ball in the tackle very often. Inconsistent tracking of runners. Occasional pass interception.
And he's played well over 100 games.
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Cant get in the Dundee team, but good enough for the premier league?? Westwood was good yesterday for me, he gets lots of stick and I am not greatest fan but really thought he was decent
I too thohgt he was ok yesterday. I thought Gana was our weakest link in midfield against Wham.
I actually thoug Gana or whatever his name is was good yesterday Mr McMahon. He was awful at the barcodes and wanted him out, but thought he was good yesterday. Actually thought Sanchez was playing well also before the injury, but 4 CM too many foe me
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I think Westwood will be useful next season and played ok against West Ham. I would prefer a fit Gardner in there for his better passing and shooting.
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OzzyJim, Westwood was good yesterday.
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No pace. No dribble. Can pass to the right shirt but only if it's sideways or backwards or less than 10 yards forwards. No goal threat. Awful set pieces. Doesn't win the ball in the tackle very often. Inconsistent tracking of runners. Occasional pass interception.
And he's played well over 100 games.
I would agree with that analysis. Therefore nowhere near good enough to play in a crucial area of the pitch. Comments about him doing well yesterday - compared with what? Did he influence our attacking moves, did he break up play in the defensive third of the pitch? No, he did his usual of keeping the game ticking over by passing to somebody in no better position than himself.
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No pace. No dribble. Can pass to the right shirt but only if it's sideways or backwards or less than 10 yards forwards. No goal threat. Awful set pieces. Doesn't win the ball in the tackle very often. Inconsistent tracking of runners. Occasional pass interception.
And he's played well over 100 games.
I would agree with that analysis. Therefore nowhere near good enough to play in a crucial area of the pitch. Comments about him doing well yesterday - compared with what? Did he influence our attacking moves, did he break up play in the defensive third of the pitch? No, he did his usual of keeping the game ticking over by passing to somebody in no better position than himself.
I think we are all in agreement here. Played well enough against West Ham and Newcastle but is not considered good enough overall to influence an upsurge in results. We are bottom because we have players like him in the team all too often. That said, on the odd occasion, he puts in an above average performance. If we could replace him with someone like Flamini then I'd be happier.
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I think Westwood will be useful next season and played ok against West Ham. I would prefer a fit Gardner in there for his better passing and shooting.
a fit gardner?
isnt that a mythical creature a bit like a unicorn?
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Look you lot it's not nice you saying we're the worst.
But midfielder Ashley Westwood says it is unfair to label them the worst-ever Premier League side as they have already eclipsed Derby's 2007-08 11-point total and Sunderland's 15-point haul in 2005-06.
"We’ve been called the worst team in Premier League history and, of course, that does hurt," said Westwood.
"The facts are we’re not. We’ve got enough points to show that we’re not the worst, but it’s still not nice to hear."
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Thanks Ashley. That could be taken from thst Boring James Milner parody account.
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Can't tackle can't shoot and is slow for a midfielder what's not to like.
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Look you lot it's not nice you saying we're the worst.
But midfielder Ashley Westwood says it is unfair to label them the worst-ever Premier League side as they have already eclipsed Derby's 2007-08 11-point total and Sunderland's 15-point haul in 2005-06.
"We’ve been called the worst team in Premier League history and, of course, that does hurt," said Westwood.
"The facts are we’re not. We’ve got enough points to show that we’re not the worst, but it’s still not nice to hear."
What's just as bad about the claim is that it discounts 130 odd years of football records. Oh shit, that's right Sky invented football in 1993ish.
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Do not care what Derby went down with or Sunderland, you Mr. Westwood are part of the worse Villa team in most peoples memory, maybe someone should point that out to you, as you seem to be very attached to pointing. Tosser.
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thanks for that insight ashley now fuck off back to crewe i can point the way for you
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From the same interview
Westwood admits it has been awkward watching games on Match of the Day with his son during the club's shocking season.
“My son Frankie is football mad," he added. "He always wants to watch Match of the Day and it’s difficult to watch it with him sometimes."
Two things spring to mind.
One - Methinks it's far easier to watch it after trousering a shitload of cash even though you've just performed badly (again).
Two - his poor son is going to be scarred for life watching that.
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'My son always points to the screen during our game and shouts out 'is that you pointing dad?'
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He actually watches Match of the Day? I haven't been able to bring myself to watch it for over 2 years, and I'm not even on it being shit.
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a quick call to social services might be needed here......no child should be forced to watch us at the moment
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If I could be arsed, I'd post a link to a clip of a drunk Alan Partridge phoning his ex wife to mock her partner's choice of car. I'm more forgiving of the likes of Westwood who are limited rather than lazy but this does him no favours.
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Rice cake insists he's tastier than cardboard.
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Years from now when we are all dead and buried someone will write a book on the worst players ever to feature in more than 100 games in the top league.
Ashley will have a whole chapter. Woeful player.
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Years from now when we are all dead and buried someone will write a book on the worst players ever to feature in more than 100 games in the top league.
Ashley will have a whole chapter. Woeful player.
Indeed, and the fact that he played more than 100 league games for us will have future generations scratching their heads wondering just how bad it was in this era.
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It's at times like this I find myself pining for 300 Premier League games stalwart Liam Ridgewell.
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It's at times like this I find myself pining for 300 Premier League games stalwart Liam Ridgewell.
Ahhhh Ridgewell, the heady days of him wiping his arse with £20 notes. How we miss him.
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Best summed up by the fact that he makes me pine for Gavin McCann.
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The way Westy is playing, we'll soon be pining for Mark Kinsella
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Or Mark Lillis or David Norton.
My god we're shite aren't we?
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If I could be arsed, I'd post a link to a clip of a drunk Alan Partridge phoning his ex wife to mock her partner's choice of car. I'm more forgiving of the likes of Westwood who are limited rather than lazy but this does him no favours.
Thanks for summing my feelings up for me.
Saved the rest of the site several paragraphs of waffle.
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It's no coincidence that all of our midfield players play worse when he is in the side and that is not just this season.
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It would have been nice if he had said "It does not matter whether we are technically the worst Premier League team ever or not - our performances have not been good enough for a club of this stature and we have let the fans down." Still, never mind.
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Or Mark Lillis or David Norton.
My god we're shite aren't we?
Norton hardly played to be fair. Lillis did but in the 2nd tier. Both were shit but I'd suggest they did slightly more for Villa than most of the current crop.
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If I were him I don't think I'd want my son to be watching me get humiliated on a weekly basis doing a job where I'm hopelessly out of my depth.
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I'd say both Lillis and Norton were better players than Westwood and contributed more to the cause than the latter has ever done. In fact I think Westwood is one of the worst players I've ever seen play for the Villa and it's staggering he's played so many games for us. He sums up our decline for me.
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If I could be arsed, I'd post a link to a clip of a drunk Alan Partridge phoning his ex wife to mock her partner's choice of car. I'm more forgiving of the likes of Westwood who are limited rather than lazy but this does him no favours.
Thanks for summing my feelings up for me.
Saved the rest of the site several paragraphs of waffle.
"Not my words Carol, the words of Top Gear magazine."
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Ashley Westwood does not have a foot like a traction engine.
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Ashley Westwood has a foot like a 4 week old Lettuce leaf.
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Well he can quite happily watch Match of Day next season without being embarrassed as we will not bleedin feature.
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He's the worst player I've ever seen for Villa. However, he played so well in that semi final against Liverpool, and looked good alongside Sylla towards the end of Lambert's first season. I just don't get it.
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I wouldn't say he's the worst player I've seen down there but possibly one of the most ineffective.
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He's the worst player I've ever seen for Villa. However, he played so well in that semi final against Licerppoll, and looked good alongside Sylla towards the end of Lambert's first season. I just don't get it.
That on the face of it sounds fairly contradictory. He's not great, but he's not the worst.
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Arsehole. Just fuck off you charlatan.
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My piss is starting to boil again...
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In a bit of fairness to him, it does look the first challenge attempt at a tackle is just a kick at his ankles and that's why his arms go up after the second attempt takes the ball. He's also the only one attempting to block the goal as the defence are wank as usual. Having said that I really wish we had better and he was at best an option from the bench, that he's still pretty much a guaranteed starter is ridiculous.
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And just to think at the start of the Lambert era this guy looked like a real talent in the making. That great day at Anfield seems light years ago now ::)
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Not robust enough and unable to handle the pressures of playing for aston villa quite frankly . A poor mans Leon Britton.
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In a bit of fairness to him, it does look the first challenge attempt at a tackle is just a kick at his ankles and that's why his arms go up after the second attempt takes the ball. He's also the only one attempting to block the goal as the defence are wank as usual. Having said that I really wish we had better and he was at best an option from the bench, that he's still pretty much a guaranteed starter is ridiculous.
What about when he just gave up tracking back the player who scored the first goal for them?
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Pretty sure I cover it when I say "I really wish we had better and he was at best an option from the bench, that he's still pretty much a guaranteed starter is ridiculous."
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Pretty sure I cover it when I say "I really wish we had better and he was at best an option from the bench, that he's still pretty much a guaranteed starter is ridiculous."
Wasn't having a go at you PWS, just pointing out his involvement in the first goal as well.
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It's been said for a long time now that when Westwood is one of your first choice midfielders then you know you're in the shit. You can spend all you like but if you fail to strengthen adequately in the middle of the park and at the back then you're in for a whole world of shit.
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It's been said for a long time now that when Westwood is one of your first choice midfielders then you know you're in the shit. You can spend all you like but if you fail to strengthen adequately in the middle of the park and at the back then you're in for a whole world of shit.
Tshibola and Jedinak. He doesn't need to start
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The way they are wrapping Tshibola in cotton wool the signs are we have had another dud swung on us. A very good dud but one with very deep seated injury problems. Another failure to properly research our expensive purchases.
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Oh for a Gareth Barry, an Ian Taylor or a Paul Birch.
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The way they are wrapping Tshibola in cotton wool the signs are we have had another dud swung on us. A very good dud but one with very deep seated injury problems. Another failure to properly research our expensive purchases.
It is starting to look that way.
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Dog shit. Absolutely useless, might as well play me to keep things ''ticking over'' with 5 yard passes. No talent at all.
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You know if we carry on at this rate, we will get to a level where this not very good footballer looks the part.
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Not replacing him in the summer and persevering with him in the team was RDM's first and biggest mistake at Villa in my opinion. The midfield was always our weakest area and why we never had a complete overhaul is staggering considering how bad we were. Looks like it's gonna cost RDM his job and I have no sympathy for him.
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Westwood started this season how he started last season, reasonably well. Earlier on this season, I thought he might have found his level and done a job for us. I was wrong.
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Judging from the crowd's reaction yesterday, I think things have passed the point of no return for Ashley. Things will start to get ugly if he continues to be a starter.
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Oh for a Gareth Barry, an Ian Taylor or a Paul Birch.
Or a Jimmy Milner who's really doing the business under a proper manager again.
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Judging from the crowd's reaction yesterday, I think things have passed the point of no return for Ashley. Things will start to get ugly if he continues to be a starter.
Yeah, a lot of booing when his name was read out. I was flabbergasted when I realised Tsibola was on the bench whilst that useless waste of a skin was selected.
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But in reality it shouldnt ever be allowed to get to this point, where players and managers are kept lingering around for so long that the atmosphere and feeling against them turns venomous. We've got a player here who, sentiment aside, he's a decent lad, doesn't cause any trouble but has looked out of place on the football pitch against almost everyone he's played against for 3 years at least. We still find him in the team, it's a bad joke, whilst we're spending £30m up front on players we can't fit in the team we've got a hopelessly out of his depth bloke in the engine room. He should have been canned years ago, I can understand it under Lerner and Lambert because neither gave a flying fuck but why when we are supposed to be progressing forward in a new era have we kept on someone who quite obviously to most people who have watched any Villa is shit.
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In a bit of fairness to him, it does look the first challenge attempt at a tackle is just a kick at his ankles and that's why his arms go up after the second attempt takes the ball. He's also the only one attempting to block the goal as the defence are wank as usual. Having said that I really wish we had better and he was at best an option from the bench, that he's still pretty much a guaranteed starter is ridiculous.
What pissed me off more than him losing the ball...just pass it back to Elphick who was in yards of space. Instead he hung onto it for ages and then predictably lost it given how lightweight he is.
Just play it simple and it stays 1 nil and maybe we could've turned it around....instead our players try to be superstars on the ball and we lose yet another game.
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I feel sorry for him. He's not unprofessional like Gabby and seems to try hard. He's just not very good.
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I feel sorry for him. He's not unprofessional like Gabby and seems to try hard. He's just not very good.
Dont feel too bad for the little lamb, we've made him a millionaire.
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I feel a bit sorry for Westwood. His confidence is completely shot after being the only player who links all of our managerial disasters together. He made a decent start under Lambert but any self-belief he may have had has finally drained away and he needs to be out of the squad, at least for a while, for the sake of his own mental health.
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He's a neat and tidy player but needs strong players around him. He will never work in a two which is why he is looking particularly poor this season.
He needed to have gone in the summer but the period where he was playing in a narrow three with Delph and Cleverly, he generally did ok.
Can't understand why the manager keeps thinking the shape of the midfield he has used all season is ever going to work.
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He's a neat and tidy player but needs strong players around him. He will never work in a two which is why he is looking particularly poor this season.
He needed to have gone in the summer but the period where he was playing in a narrow three with Delph and Cleverly, he generally did ok.
Can't understand why the manager keeps thinking the shape of the midfield he has used all season is ever going to work.
Agree with this, but the lack of investment in the midfield area means we can only really play with a two in midfield.
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He's a neat and tidy player but needs strong players around him. He will never work in a two which is why he is looking particularly poor this season.
He needed to have gone in the summer but the period where he was playing in a narrow three with Delph and Cleverly, he generally did ok.
Can't understand why the manager keeps thinking the shape of the midfield he has used all season is ever going to work.
Agree with this, but the lack of investment in the midfield area means we can only really play with a two in midfield.
Yes, agree. Overloaded with forward types but only four midfield options and that includes Bacuna.
He needed to find an energetic box to box midfielder instead of Adomah who seems to be another option we don't need.
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He's a neat and tidy player but needs strong players around him. He will never work in a two which is why he is looking particularly poor this season.
He needed to have gone in the summer but the period where he was playing in a narrow three with Delph and Cleverly, he generally did ok.
Can't understand why the manager keeps thinking the shape of the midfield he has used all season is ever going to work.
Agree with this, but the lack of investment in the midfield area means we can only really play with a two in midfield.
Yes, agree. Overloaded with forward types but only four midfield options and that includes Bacuna.
He needed to find an energetic box to box midfielder instead of Adomah who seems to be another option we don't need.
Think Adomah was bought because Di Matteo had pretty much decided on the 4-2-3-1 formation and needed another wide option. We definitely left ourselves short of midfield options though.
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I've absolutely no idea why we bought Adomah. Didn't at the time and certainly don't now.
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Judging from the crowd's reaction yesterday, I think things have passed the point of no return for Ashley. Things will start to get ugly if he continues to be a starter.
Yeah, a lot of booing when his name was read out. I was flabbergasted when I realised Tsibola was on the bench whilst that useless waste of a skin was selected.
When I saw Westwood on the team sheet I thought Tshibola was out injured but then I saw he was sub. Just what on earth was RDM thinking leaving him on the bench for the lamentable Westwood? I think he's lost the plot and it's time for him to go.
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Not replacing him in the summer and persevering with him in the team was RDM's first and biggest mistake at Villa in my opinion. The midfield was always our weakest area and why we never had a complete overhaul is staggering considering how bad we were. Looks like it's gonna cost RDM his job and I have no sympathy for him.
this
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In a bit of fairness to him, it does look the first challenge attempt at a tackle is just a kick at his ankles and that's why his arms go up after the second attempt takes the ball. He's also the only one attempting to block the goal as the defence are wank as usual. Having said that I really wish we had better and he was at best an option from the bench, that he's still pretty much a guaranteed starter is ridiculous.
What pissed me off more than him losing the ball...just pass it back to Elphick who was in yards of space. Instead he hung onto it for ages and then predictably lost it given how lightweight he is.
Just play it simple and it stays 1 nil and maybe we could've turned it around....instead our players try to be superstars on the ball and we lose yet another game.
its weird because we moan about him just doing SIMPLE five yard passes and nothing else in the match and when he needs to doo a SIMPLE pass to Ephick he fucks it up
I can not believe he is still starting games for us and RDM is to blame for this.
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In a bit of fairness to him, it does look the first challenge attempt at a tackle is just a kick at his ankles and that's why his arms go up after the second attempt takes the ball. He's also the only one attempting to block the goal as the defence are wank as usual. Having said that I really wish we had better and he was at best an option from the bench, that he's still pretty much a guaranteed starter is ridiculous.
What pissed me off more than him losing the ball...just pass it back to Elphick who was in yards of space. Instead he hung onto it for ages and then predictably lost it given how lightweight he is.
Just play it simple and it stays 1 nil and maybe we could've turned it around....instead our players try to be superstars on the ball and we lose yet another game.
its weird because we moan about him just doing SIMPLE five yard passes and nothing else in the match and when he needs to doo a SIMPLE pass to Ephick he fucks it up
I can not believe he is still starting games for us and RDM is to blame for this.
The last 4 managers before Di Matteo picked him too and it's very possible any new manager might continue to pick him as well.
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In a bit of fairness to him, it does look the first challenge attempt at a tackle is just a kick at his ankles and that's why his arms go up after the second attempt takes the ball. He's also the only one attempting to block the goal as the defence are wank as usual. Having said that I really wish we had better and he was at best an option from the bench, that he's still pretty much a guaranteed starter is ridiculous.
What pissed me off more than him losing the ball...just pass it back to Elphick who was in yards of space. Instead he hung onto it for ages and then predictably lost it given how lightweight he is.
Just play it simple and it stays 1 nil and maybe we could've turned it around....instead our players try to be superstars on the ball and we lose yet another game.
its weird because we moan about him just doing SIMPLE five yard passes and nothing else in the match and when he needs to doo a SIMPLE pass to Ephick he fucks it up
I can not believe he is still starting games for us and RDM is to blame for this.
The last 4 managers before Di Matteo picked him too and it's very possible any new manager might continue to pick him as well.
he must look like De Bruyne in training
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In a bit of fairness to him, it does look the first challenge attempt at a tackle is just a kick at his ankles and that's why his arms go up after the second attempt takes the ball. He's also the only one attempting to block the goal as the defence are wank as usual. Having said that I really wish we had better and he was at best an option from the bench, that he's still pretty much a guaranteed starter is ridiculous.
What pissed me off more than him losing the ball...just pass it back to Elphick who was in yards of space. Instead he hung onto it for ages and then predictably lost it given how lightweight he is.
Just play it simple and it stays 1 nil and maybe we could've turned it around....instead our players try to be superstars on the ball and we lose yet another game.
its weird because we moan about him just doing SIMPLE five yard passes and nothing else in the match and when he needs to doo a SIMPLE pass to Ephick he fucks it up
I can not believe he is still starting games for us and RDM is to blame for this.
The last 4 managers before Di Matteo picked him too and it's very possible any new manager might continue to pick him as well.
he must look like De Bruyne in training
You mean wear a ginger wig and put cotton wool in his cheeks?
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Judging from the crowd's reaction yesterday, I think things have passed the point of no return for Ashley. Things will start to get ugly if he continues to be a starter.
Yeah, a lot of booing when his name was read out. I was flabbergasted when I realised Tsibola was on the bench whilst that useless waste of a skin was selected.
When I saw Westwood on the team sheet I thought Tshibola was out injured but then I saw he was sub. Just what on earth was RDM thinking leaving him on the bench for the lamentable Westwood? I think he's lost the plot and it's time for him to go.
It's becoming clear that Tshibola has injury problems which mean he can't manage consecutive games. That makes the decision not to invest more heavily in the midfield is even more questionable.
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In a bit of fairness to him, it does look the first challenge attempt at a tackle is just a kick at his ankles and that's why his arms go up after the second attempt takes the ball. He's also the only one attempting to block the goal as the defence are wank as usual. Having said that I really wish we had better and he was at best an option from the bench, that he's still pretty much a guaranteed starter is ridiculous.
What pissed me off more than him losing the ball...just pass it back to Elphick who was in yards of space. Instead he hung onto it for ages and then predictably lost it given how lightweight he is.
Just play it simple and it stays 1 nil and maybe we could've turned it around....instead our players try to be superstars on the ball and we lose yet another game.
its weird because we moan about him just doing SIMPLE five yard passes and nothing else in the match and when he needs to doo a SIMPLE pass to Ephick he fucks it up
I can not believe he is still starting games for us and RDM is to blame for this.
The last 4 managers before Di Matteo picked him too and it's very possible any new manager might continue to pick him as well.
Well we're stuck with him till at least January so he'll have to play some part especially with our midfield being so weak in terms of numbers. It's absolute madness that he's still at our club though and it was a huge mistake by RDM that he didn't finally get rid of him in the summer.
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I'd play the feckless bozo in a midfield three or four, possibly, alongside more capable players, so that he has less responsibility and he can do his thing of "moving the ball on" (passing it five metres to more competent players).
The same goes for Jedinak. Just have him do what he can do in front of the back four - play to his strengths (whatever they are).
With the choices we have at the moment, I'd have Tshibola, Jedinak, Gardner and Grealish. Maybe Westwood for Gardner. Go 442. Drill those players so they know what their role is. Get some solidity and stability back.
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Ashley Westwood is a symptom of our midfield problems.
For Crewe he was not a holding midfielder, he played further up the pitch.
We need a midfield that for want of a better phrase 'can get a grip'.
Westwood is generally tidy and can usually pass (PNE mistake excepted).
He will never run a game, dictate play or shut down an opponent.
He would be a good player in a strong midfield. We have not had a strong midfield for years.
There is no way we can afford to play him at this level but God knows what options we have other than Tshibola.
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Westwood is a puff of wind. He's a third division player, which is where we'll end up if we keep playing him. He can pass the ball five and ten yards, so can I. He doesn't create, score goals, provide killer passes, He can't head a ball, can't defend, isn't physical. I fail to see what the last four or five Manager's have seen in him that I cannot. Stealing a living.
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Agree with Newby. Westwood seems like a nice honest lad, but I can't really recall a single incisive pass, killer through ball, defensive tackle or block that he's made in all the time he's been here. He hardly ever scores and most of his "shots" end up in row Z. My 7 year old daughter tackles harder than he does. He can't offer a burst of pace or physical combativeness. His floaty arty farty dead balls were shockingly bad. In short he offers little or nothing in attack and can't defend and he's a level 3 or 4 player who's been playing well above his level since he signed for us. Most of us could see all this, and still can, yet highly paid manager after highly paid manager keep picking him. There has surely got to be someone in the reserves or youth team that can offer more - Lyden maybe? Failing that Gardner at least has a decent shot on him.
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If I was Dr Tony I would tell the new manager - get rid of him and use 25 millions pounds or whatever to find 3 good midfielders, and if you want a new right back, you need to generate money for it.
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I think there's a pretty high chance the new manager will come in and say "I need a centre midfielder, centre back and experienced keeper, pronto"
Even if a couple of loans were included to tide us over the rest of the season. I'd sacrifice "characters" for guys who can play football
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I feel a bit sorry for Westwood. His confidence is completely shot after being the only player who links all of our managerial disasters together. He made a decent start under Lambert but any self-belief he may have had has finally drained away and he needs to be out of the squad, at least for a while, for the sake of his own mental health.
He is like an American soldier in the Vietnam War on his third tour of duty. He is fine in training but put him in the heat of battle, his nerve goes and he hides. His confidence is completely shot as you say from the last 4 years of struggle. He had potential when we signed him but he is nowhere near as good now as he was then. He will never recover his confidence here and needs to move on for his own sake. As others have said, he does not cause trouble but he is not up to it.
The best the midfield have played in the last couple of years was when Sherwood first came in and coincidentally he was not in the team. When he came back in the side right at the back end of the season, we struggled again. Likewise last season when Garde left him out, we improved a bit, only for us to return to ways when Veretout was injured and he came back in the side. I do believe that he has made reasonable midfield players look far worse than they actually were over the last few seasons and we are seeing it again this season.
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Are there any experienced goalkeepers unattatched?
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Are you suggesting we put Westy I'm goal?
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Goalkeepers point a lot.
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Westwood will only look decent in a midfield 3 for a team that are constantly on the front foot. Then he can quickly move the ball about with short passes and keep your attacks ticking, subtly changing the point of attack. We are none of that which is why all of his other deficiencies make him a liability for us.
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Until we get good midfielders I think we have to put 3 in CM. There's no way around it. Strength in numbers. Jedinak can just sit as the hod carrier at the back. Tish is absolutely essential. The other is one of GG, Westwood or Lyden. At this point I'd give Lyden a chance because he's more athletic.
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Brutal article on Ashley Westwood here (https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/loris-karius-and-five-other-keepers-have-better-passing-stats-than-the-most-pointless-midfielder/106233?utm_content=buffer5acdf&utm_medium=Social+organic&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer)
Loris Karius and five other 'keepers have better passing stats than the most pointless midfielder
Loris Karius and five other 'keepers have better passing stats than the most pointless midfielder
BY CONAN DOHERTY
There's ineffective and then there's Ashley Westwood.
These players are in every club - two of them used to be at Villa but Tom Cleverley has since upgraded to stand around Everton doing nothing instead.
It's not that they're particularly terrible footballers - it's just that they're afraid to play football, which doesn't exactly help when you're a footballer.
They get picked every week though because they don't make any major cock-ups. A lot of managers are happy to throw boys onto their teams in the knowledge that they won't cost them the game. They won't help at all but most our predispositions is to be cautious and not balls the thing up first and foremost.
So Paul Lambert plucked someone like Ashley Westwood from God knows where and planted him into the heart of the Aston Villa team. Tim Sherwood came along and did the same. So did Roberto Di Matteo. Steve Bruce is flirting back and forward with the idea and, all the while, Villa fans are tearing their hair out asking how and why.
Let's get it straight, this man can kick a ball, he just won't. He hides from it. He never presents himself as an option and, the rare times he's forced to actually take possession, he either rolls it five metres to the next man or simply lumps it away or loses it.
As central midfielders go, Ashley Westwood is as anonymous as they come.
Now, Villa are playing at a grade below and their heartbeat couldn't be less interested. Against Norwich on Tuesday night, they lined out with a frightening front four that would be the envy of any Championship team. Top scorer Jonathan Kodjia played with Jack Grealish and Jordan Ayew behind Gabby Agbonlahor.
They were quickly made redundant though because their supply line wasn't pumping. It was running scared.
In 93 minutes, Ashley Westwood completed 18 passes against Norwich.
Five of those passes even went forwards.
This is a central midfielder, playing in one of the biggest clubs in the league, on one of the teams with the best personnel and he's stringing together 18 passes for 93 minutes of work.
In an era where men like Xavi has hit heights of almost 180 passes, Westwood is offering 10 times less in the Championship. Paul McShane actually completed 101 more passes than him on Tuesday night.
In fairness, Westwood managed one tackle and one interception too.
But it's not just Irish defenders that are embarrassing him when it comes to passing stats, in the last week alone, six Premier League goalkeepers have completed more passes than the man at the hub of the action for Villa.
Goalkeepers' pass completions in the last week:
Hugo Lloris (v United) - 24
Thibaut Courtois (v West Brom) - 22
Loris Karius (v West Ham) - 21
Victor Valdes (v Southampton) - 21
Claudio Bravo (v Leicester) - 21
Jordan Pickford (v Swansea) - 19
Artur Boric (v Burnley) - 18
Seamus Coleman made 24 passes against Watford at the weekend too. Darren Randolph completed 17 against Liverpool.
Ashley Westwood made 18. Against Norwich. From midfield. In 93 minutes.
In real life.
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At least he's not on minus passes like all those keepers. Shocking performances from so-called Premier League stars.
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Much as I don't rate Westwood and would happily never see him in a Villa shirt again, I think that's a completely unnecessary hatchet job. If he was giving it the big "I am" and needed taking down a peg or two then it might be warranted, but he's not. Westwood seems a decent lad who's struggling at a level he can't cope with and shouldn't be being exposed to. That's not his fault. I don't think he doesn't try. I don't have a clue who the smartarse writer is or care how accurate his stats are, I think that's a pretty spiteful and nasty piece of writing. I hope Westwood never sees it.
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Much as I don't rate Westwood and would happily never see him in a Villa shirt again, I think that's a completely unnecessary hatchet job. If he was giving it the big "I am" and needed taking down a peg or two then it might be warranted, but he's not. Westwood seems a decent lad who's struggling at a level he can't cope with and shouldn't be being exposed to. That's not his fault. I don't think he doesn't try. I don't have a clue who the smartarse writer is or care how accurate his stats are, I think that's a pretty spiteful and nasty piece of writing. I hope Westwood never sees it.
Very fair point
Still no assist or goals or through balls this season. Point still remains we probably need to upgrade
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Much as I don't rate Westwood and would happily never see him in a Villa shirt again, I think that's a completely unnecessary hatchet job. If he was giving it the big "I am" and needed taking down a peg or two then it might be warranted, but he's not. Westwood seems a decent lad who's struggling at a level he can't cope with and shouldn't be being exposed to. That's not his fault. I don't think he doesn't try. I don't have a clue who the smartarse writer is or care how accurate his stats are, I think that's a pretty spiteful and nasty piece of writing. I hope Westwood never sees it.
Very fair point
Still no assist or goals or through balls this season. Point still remains we probably need to upgrade
I think that's the point.....it's so obvious that he offers nothing either offensively or defensively and we all know it but the managers don't....
I could be wrong as I'm no championship/premiership manager but he has never performed or progressed and for too long we have been carrying players like him and Clark ( now departed), Hutton and Agbonlahor
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Until we get good midfielders I think we have to put 3 in CM. There's no way around it. Strength in numbers. Jedinak can just sit as the hod carrier at the back. Tish is absolutely essential. The other is one of GG, Westwood or Lyden. At this point I'd give Lyden a chance because he's more athletic.
Teacher's pet under RDM but never given a chance until now. He more than deserves his chance, playing along side a fellow Aussie. I really hope Bruce gives him a chance as I'm sure he won't let us down. I've always believed a few of our kids will see us through our promotional season. Lyden is the type that won't be looking to swap shirts at the end of the game as he loves it too much.
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Much as I don't rate Westwood and would happily never see him in a Villa shirt again, I think that's a completely unnecessary hatchet job. If he was giving it the big "I am" and needed taking down a peg or two then it might be warranted, but he's not. Westwood seems a decent lad who's struggling at a level he can't cope with and shouldn't be being exposed to. That's not his fault. I don't think he doesn't try. I don't have a clue who the smartarse writer is or care how accurate his stats are, I think that's a pretty spiteful and nasty piece of writing. I hope Westwood never sees it.
Very fair point
Still no assist or goals or through balls this season. Point still remains we probably need to upgrade
I think that's the point.....it's so obvious that he offers nothing either offensively or defensively and we all know it but the managers don't....
I could be wrong as I'm no championship/premiership manager but he has never performed or progressed and for too long we have been carrying players like him and Clark ( now departed), Hutton and Agbonlahor
jedinak has two assists. Not a huge stats buff but if your midfielders aren't setting up goals...
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I'm Westwoods biggest critic but the main culprits are the succession of managers who fail to see the bleeding obvious. Forget Westwood forget Gabby they should never be in the first team again.
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I agree that he shouldn't be in the team but not that he is this Godawful player. Where the piece is spot on is that he is playing scared and isn't hunting the ball down and playing on the front foot. he does however, make himself an option but not deep on the pitch, that's not his role, his role is to get it and give it. We've spectacularly failed over the last 3 games but managed to come out with 3 points. If we drew 3 we'd be criticising the Wigan performance but thankful for a point a piece at Leeds and Norwich.
he looks shot to me. It can't be much fun for him (or us I hear you say) going onto a football pitch playing with players without confidence and an unforgiving home crowd. Westwood did use to get around the pitch more and then, as now to be fair, he did break into the box. He is good enough for this level the problem is he and Jedinak play the same rolehaving them both in the team means that Westwood stands out like a sore thumb - even when he has played no worse than Jedinak. The problem for him is that those who were present last season have zero brownie points and it'll stay like that until the team starts winning regularly.
We need to fundamentally change the shape of the team in January and acquire the correct players for the correct positions. We need a centre half, we need two midfielders, we need a striker. We need to shift out 1 or 2 of Grealish, McCormack, Ayew, Gestede, Kodjia, Kozak, Adomah, Agbonlahor to get the forward unit working together and not chopping and changing and just hoping things come good.
As for Westwood? I think his time has come and gone. but I also don't think that a player that has been vilified as much as he has is as half as bad as is made, often by him with some of his performance sit has to be said.
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It is not a hatchet job on Westwood, it is facts, a main stay off our midfield for what seems like the last decade has a 18 pass completion, only 5 of those going forward, one tackle and one interception, so 20 involvements in a game that lasted 93 minutes, that is him being involved every 4 minutes, my god know wonder we say he is invisible and does nothing, it is because he is invisible and does nothing.
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Yes, he had a very poor game. As did the 10 others.
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Im sure point is a lovely bloke and a model pro but he is simply not a very good footballer
having him as a regular starter leads to us being where we are now
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18 passes as a central midfielder is unacceptable at any level of football.
Couple that with NEVER heading the ball, pulling out of challenges (he did it again at Norwich) and having zero influence on games and it begs the question, how the hell does he continue to get picked?
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Can I add that Gary Gardener is in the same bracket, wanted him to succeed but he is never going to make it he should drop down a division.
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The writer got something very wrong indeed. The bit where he says Ashley Westwood can kick a football. He really can't, not to anywhere near the level you'd expect from a professional footballer. Not at Premier League level, not at Championship level.
He is a non-football playing millionaire footballer who should only ever have appeared at Villa Park as a visitor with a lower/non league club in a cup match, or as a fan or steward or hotdog seller. He is the Bartleby of our midfield, and worse. He is a hoodwinker. A phoney, a fake and a charlatan. Yet he perfectly encapsulates what Aston Villa has been these last few years, a club that's completely lost its way and is still groping in the dawn twilight trying to find it.
Get rid immediately.
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The writer got something very wrong indeed. The bit where he says Ashley Westwood can kick a football. He really can't, not to anywhere near the level you'd expect from a professional footballer. Not at Premier League level, not at Championship level.
He is a non-football playing millionaire footballer who should only ever have appeared at Villa Park as a visitor with a lower/non league club in a cup match, or as a fan or steward or hotdog seller. He is the Bartleby of our midfield, and worse. He is a hoodwinker. A phoney, a fake and a charlatan. Yet he perfectly encapsulates what Aston Villa has been these last few years, a club that's completely lost its way and is still groping in the dawn twilight trying to find it.
Get rid immediately.
I love it, and agree with every word. He is absolutely garbage. It has happened where I have seen him in the team lineup and just refused to watch the match.
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The writer got something very wrong indeed. The bit where he says Ashley Westwood can kick a football. He really can't, not to anywhere near the level you'd expect from a professional footballer. Not at Premier League level, not at Championship level.
He is a non-football playing millionaire footballer who should only ever have appeared at Villa Park as a visitor with a lower/non league club in a cup match, or as a fan or steward or hotdog seller. He is the Bartleby of our midfield, and worse. He is a hoodwinker. A phoney, a fake and a charlatan. Yet he perfectly encapsulates what Aston Villa has been these last few years, a club that's completely lost its way and is still groping in the dawn twilight trying to find it.
Get rid immediately.
Hear hear! He's a damning indictment of the latter Lerner era and we're still suffering for it.
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the writer got one thing wrong
never does a major cock up?
I remember the one against Preston which more or less gave RDM the john Woo bullet
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We've been too nice or too disorganised as a club and ended up stuck with players because we had no better alternative. I think that's why Westwood keeps getting played. As others have said, I wish him no ill at all, but these stats were painful to read.
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The only ill I could possibly wish upon Ashley Westwood is that he becomes some other club's waste of a shirt.
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At which point (hur hur) he'd be playing for England within 3 years.
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For a few months after Westwood signed he looked like he would more than hold his own at the top level. Successive managers have coached that out of him and destroyed his confidence. A real shame as he was one of the few who appeared to care about our plight last season.
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I agree I think his time at Villa has destroyed him as a footballer. He arrived as a promising Championship player. He has returned to the Championship looking totally out of his depth.
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the writer got one thing wrong
never does a major cock up?
I remember the one against Preston which more or less gave RDM the john Woo bullet
And the Cardiff game, when he gave it away 30 yards out. He is anonymous but even if Bruce never saw the article, he'd have those stats regularly as would previous managers. We employ people to analyse the games which makes it inexcusable if Bruce does not address the midfield as priority in January.
I would also bet that Bacuna, even with his limitations, would have far better stats playing there. He should be alongside Jedinak for the rest of this month at least.
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You don't need stats to see that Westwood is a nothing player. The highest accolade he can ever be given is 'tidy'.
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I agree I think his time at Villa has destroyed him as a footballer. He arrived as a promising Championship player. He has returned to the Championship looking totally out of his depth.
Didn't he arrive here from a League One club? And what was promising about him, other than our own capacity to deceive ourselves with false promises? I have never seen anything about him to suggest he had any significant promise, personality, ability, application or anything at all. He's a player who has built his career on being anonymous, the type of player that gives the ball to better players (which means most players).
Even his manager at Crewe, Steve Davis, said it was "a bit of a surprise" when Villa came in for him. And the only reason we came in for him is because we'd decided, under Randy Lerner, that we weren't going to try to compete any more. Young and hungry my arse. Shit and shit is what we ended up with.
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He's one of those players that you just don't notice is on the pitch. He's the most anonymous player I've ever (not) seen. Gary Gardner appears to be similar.
He's probably better than Tshibola though. *smiley winky thing*
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Swansea were also after him when we signed him. So there was obviously something promising about him as a youngster.
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That article is spot on. Westwood is the ultimate non-entity footballer, and we've still got about 117 years left on his current contract. I absolutely detest seeing him in a Villa shirt, and we can forget about any thoughts of promotion while he's still a regular fixture.
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Swansea were also after him when we signed him. So there was obviously something promising about him as a youngster.
Maybe they were, may be they weren't, who knows? Very little interest in him from anybody since.
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Swansea were also after him when we signed him. So there was obviously something promising about him as a youngster.
Maybe they were, may be they weren't, who knows? Very little interest in him from anybody since.
They were.
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Ashley Westwood, professional footballer. Honours and achievements: Some cursory interest from Swansea City once, a few years ago now.
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I'm sure he's a very nice lad and he does try hard (well, runs around a lot) but he just hasn't got what it takes at this level. He can't tackle, can't challenge to head a ball, creates nothing, plays no incisive passes, doesn't score - all he does is look busy and recycles the ball, usually sideways or backwards,so what's the point (see what I did there) in him being in the squad? He played 131 games in League 2, and 134 games for us in the PL. I know which division he's more suited to. And who was the massive knob-end who gave him a new 5 year contract last September? And why
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Swansea were also after him when we signed him. So there was obviously something promising about him as a youngster.
Maybe they were, may be they weren't, who knows? Very little interest in him from anybody since.
we thought we were going to win the lotto , when we thought Burnley was sniffing in the summer for him . Bullshit we was all sniffing.
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I suppose in many ways, this is the first season in quite a few where we have the ability to bring players in. It's strange to me that Di Matteo didn't see fit to bring in better midfielders, but then, most of what he did was questionable.
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There's worse players played for Villa but non worse with his number of appearances.
He's consistently the most ineffective player I've ever had the misfortune to see play for us (140 fucking times).
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Swansea were also after him when we signed him. So there was obviously something promising about him as a youngster.
Maybe they were, may be they weren't, who knows? Very little interest in him from anybody since.
They were.
Yes, you're right, but then it seems they wouldn't match the fee, so their interest only ran so far. Peterborough were also interested!
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Don't know if this has already been posted but it does seem to sum up Westwoods usefulness
https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/loris-karius-and-five-other-keepers-have-better-passing-stats-than-the-most-pointless-midfielder/102723
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That's a pretty funny article and Bruce should really take notice if he hadn't already.
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For a few months after Westwood signed he looked like he would more than hold his own at the top level. Successive managers have coached that out of him and destroyed his confidence. A real shame as he was one of the few who appeared to care about our plight last season.
There are many things that can be said about Westwood but saying he doesn't care and that he doesn't give 100% are things that he can't be accused of. He gives his all but ultimately that isn't enough when you are as rubbish as he is.
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That article is spot on. Westwood is the ultimate non-entity footballer, and we've still got about 117 years left on his current contract. I absolutely detest seeing him in a Villa shirt, and we can forget about any thoughts of promotion while he's still a regular fixture.
I heartily concur.
It's embarrassing seeing him start for us, he's second best to any given opposition.
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I've now come to the conclusion that he doesn't even try. He does run around a bit but much like those kids who mime during the hymns in assembly at school, it's all for show. For me he's a cowardly player. As cowardly as I've ever known in a Villa shirt. In the vast majority of times I've seen him playing he just hides. He never seems to want to impose himself onto a game. He doesn't show for the ball. He's scared of it. He's scared of doing something productive with it, and in those moments the ball finds him he shakes like a shitting dog and will 9 times out of 10 take the easy option, which is to pass it sideways or back, to the closest team-mate possible.
If you put a fitbit round his wrist he'd show enough mileage after a game that someone might think he's covered enough distance, but he plays hide and seek. He cowers away from the game. He hides behind markers when we're in possession. He leaves them alone when the opposition are in possession. There's no urgency. This no desire. He just wants to exist on the pitch, not do anything too disastrous, but by the same token shows no will to be a potential matchwinner.
A chancer and a scaredy cat who knows he's out of his depth but will always attempt the bare minimum in order to maintain his place at a club of this level and the paycheck that comes with it. Any potential he was showing in his first season, and growing confidence has dissipated. Rather than continue to work on his game at that point and develop, he has retreated into a shell and somehow managed to coast his way through a further 3 years of absolute nothingness. A black hole of football.
He might not be a shit like Gabby, or some of the other irksome, repugnant bastards we've employed who have been almost actively contemptuous, but he's shown absolutely no balls at all. He needs sacking and he needs to go back to League 2 where he can exist and blend into being an above average non-entity at the right level. He seems constantly in fear of being "found out" here. But no manager has yet seemed to notice.
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Don't know if this has already been posted but it does seem to sum up Westwoods usefulness
https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/loris-karius-and-five-other-keepers-have-better-passing-stats-than-the-most-pointless-midfielder/102723
spoiled it by reference to the frightening front four
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A nasty, spiteful, no need article.
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A nasty, spiteful, no need article.
But, completely factual.
It is borderline insane that a central midfielder playing for a club like ours in the second division couldn't muster more than 17 passes. Some of the midfielders he was brought in to replace (ie. Barry, Milner, Delph etc.) can string together a third of that total in one trip down the pitch.
It's unacceptable, plain and simple. The guy has lost his way and needs a fresh start somewhere else. He offers nothing that Gards, Jedinak and Tshibola cannot already do. We need to get some real midfielders in this January.
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I'd expect Gardner to be registering the same sort of figures.
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I'd expect Gardner to be registering the same sort of figures.
And if you went through "our division" probably quite a few more, hes in a team game after all.
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The writer got something very wrong indeed. The bit where he says Ashley Westwood can kick a football. He really can't, not to anywhere near the level you'd expect from a professional footballer. Not at Premier League level, not at Championship level.
He is a non-football playing millionaire footballer who should only ever have appeared at Villa Park as a visitor with a lower/non league club in a cup match, or as a fan or steward or hotdog seller. He is the Bartleby of our midfield, and worse. He is a hoodwinker. A phoney, a fake and a charlatan. Yet he perfectly encapsulates what Aston Villa has been these last few years, a club that's completely lost its way and is still groping in the dawn twilight trying to find it.
Get rid immediately.
Bang on the money Jimbo, bang on!!
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The article was a bit nasty and if you were his mother you'd be a bit upset. However, I'm not his mum and in all fairness it's fairly bang on!
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Why would we revel in god knows who slagging off one of our 1st team players,he may be struggling , but come on, all hands to the pump and all that.
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He should be making a difference at this level. He isn't. In fact, I think he still hasn't found his level. Perhaps Walsall? Gardner in the same mould.
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Somewhere in there is a mid table Championship midfielder, he's completely lost, like a rabbit in the headlights, he's clearly not enjoying his football and the nicest thing we can do is to loan him out or sell him so he can reboot and start again. I don't dislike him but he needs to be moved on pronto.
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He's a symbol of our past regimes. I wish him no ill will but I also wish he'd fuck right off.
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Sometimes it's just better for all that we part company. He could do with a fresh challenge and we could do with someone who really gets involved more.
He'd be an excellent first signing for Zola.
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He's a symbol of our past regimes. I wish him no ill will but I also wish he'd fuck right off.
Not a fan of quoting myself (even if I do talk complete sense after a few pints), but as a p.s. on the basis we get a half competent replacement!
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Sometimes it's just better for all that we part company. He could do with a fresh challenge and we could do with someone who really gets involved more.
He'd be an excellent first signing for Zola.
Yes, he'd be an excellent way to spend their £10m war chest.
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I think a key feature that is lacking is physicality and robust nature of play.
(Here is West wood thread!- I don't post in transfer thread anymore after harshness will only observe)
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I had hoped that increase competition could push westwood performance and players brought in compliment him.
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I now thinking he 'll be hard pressed to be first choice now
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I now thinking he 'll be hard pressed to be first choice now
We live in hope.
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first name on the team sheet for saturday...............but since there's no game, there's no harm in that.
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Someone in the 'ship or lower leagues has to be in the market for a cm.. whether they are willing to get hoodwinked like we were is a different story, but surely he could pull a fast one on another manager.
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fancied by crewe once upon a time...........maybe it could re-happen.
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Someone in the 'ship or lower leagues has to be in the market for a cm.. whether they are willing to get hoodwinked like we were is a different story, but surely he could pull a fast one on another manager.
Wolves? Lambo must be tempted
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Well Down the pecking order now
But he's still probably second in line to play the anchor man role I'd have thought. Unless Lansbury is a different player than I thought he was or tshibola can be trained to play there
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i am sure he has qualities that sb admires.......like, doing as he is told.
and having manual gates.
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Off to Burnley?!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aplWTXEcY70
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Best news of the window. Somebody is finally taking the most chronic player I can recall in 26 years of going down the Villa. He makes Leonhardson and Kinsellar look dynamic.
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Best news of the window. Somebody is finally taking the most chronic player I can recall in 26 years of going down the Villa. He makes Leonhardson and Kinsellar look dynamic.
I honestly thought he'd start tomorrow even though we have 3 new midfielders to choose from. In fact until the team sheet is presented or the move to Burnely confirmed I'm still expecting him to be on it.
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It's £5m!!!!!!
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Best news of the window. Somebody is finally taking the most chronic player I can recall in 26 years of going down the Villa. He makes Leonhardson and Kinsellar look dynamic.
Cissokho is far, far worse
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Getting rid of him is like signing a new player. Make it happen Burnley.
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It's £5m!!!!!!
That does represent a decent profit on a player who has played in such awful teams. As I've said on the transfer thread there is a decent player in there but it is probably best for Westwood and Villa that he moves on.
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£5mil? Blimey!
One bit of advice, Ash lad. Don't you spend 90 minutes pointing at Joey Barton.
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When did he last occupy the most important part of the pitch? I know I'm stretching credulity when I label Westwood a midfielder but you still have to attempt a like for like comparison.
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It's £5m!!!!!!
I think I know a fair bit about football having played it for 20 odd years and watched it twice that. I therefore think I have a good idea on the worth of a pro footballer in today's market. That valuation proves my experience, knowledge or whatever counts for nothing.
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Not going to believe until he's OTPSABSWWAL.
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I dont know where he 'll fit in that midfield for Burnley. Stefan defour is a class act maybe he's off! As its him and Jeff Hendrick in middle and Joey Barton who is average. Anyway not to worry ! Good luck Westy
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Do my raw old eyeballs deceive me, or are we about to pull off the deal of the fucking millennium? The last time I got rid of a turd that wouldn't flush, I ended up paying water bill.
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For anyone upset at not getting more money in the Ayew sale consider we are getting a free £5m from selling this dud.
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Don't let us down Burnley and make it happens ;)
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For anyone upset at not getting more money in the Ayew sale consider we are getting a free £5m from selling this dud.
Sounds like a loan deal with a view to a £5m permanent deal. We may not have seen the last of him.
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For anyone upset at not getting more money in the Ayew sale consider we are getting a free £5m from selling this dud.
Sounds like a loan deal with a view to a £5m permanent deal. We may not have seen the last of him.
(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-af40934c38ffe99bea793ea45025bdbb?convert_to_webp=true)
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Never been our best player but at least he's been professional throughout his time here. If we get shot of him, especially for the money mentioned, this is a great deal all round. Westwood gets a new start, still gets to play in the world's best colours and we get more than a fair deal.
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It's a good move for Westwood, though he will do well to get in their midfield. Wish him all the best, had a lot of potential when he first came but ultimately sunk without trace.
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Come on you Burnley!!!!!!!
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I guess he'll be far more likely to go there permanently if Burnley stay up. Is that likely? I've not really kept tabs with the Premier League since we exited it. I presume Leicester are still top.
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Tara a bit Ash: and float on.
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Best news of the window. Somebody is finally taking the most chronic player I can recall in 26 years of going down the Villa. He makes Leonhardson and Kinsellar look dynamic.
Cissokho is far, far worse
I think ads baby is suggesting midfield wise !
There are a few worse than both but amount of times he played and without any improvement certainly Westy up there.
Cissoko seemed to give a few penos away . Try and blank him from my mind though at times he threatened to look solid !
Take care westy I'll watch out for him against Lincoln in the cup ! Must have been the deal breaker
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I wish him no ills but not remotely disappointed to see him move on. Even if you park the fact he's not very good, he's been too long associated with dreadful, losing teams at VP to the point (no pun intended) it is normal for him. He's no troublemaker but he's ingrained in failure and that's just as destructive.
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I wish him no ills but not remotely disappointed to see him move on. Even if you park the fact he's not very good, he's been too long associated with dreadful, losing teams at VP to the point (no pun intended) it is normal for him. He's no troublemaker but he's ingrained in failure and that's just as destructive.
This.
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He could ever really influence the game by himself - with Barton and Defour at Burnley he will probably do an ok job.
Lets face it, for the last few years our midfield has been woeful.
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He came, he pointed, he took the money. A misfit from the Lambert and Lerner experimental period.
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Reading the first page in this thread is comedy gold (no offence to anyone, hindsight and all that).
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Reading the first page in this thread is comedy gold (no offence to anyone, hindsight and all that).
This gem amongst them 'If he's the standard of lower league player Lambert buys, he'll have no complaints from me'
To be fair to the lad, he did look like being a real prospect, did we coach it out of him or is he just so lacking in belief after being at the heart of so many abysmal sides over the years?
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I've packed him a pie for the journey.
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Has he actually gone?
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Lowton did ok at Burnley, I would not be surprised to see Westwood do as well....and he's in the Prem and we aren't.....
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Lowton did ok at Burnley, I would not be surprised to see Westwood do as well....and he's in the Prem and we aren't.....
...so are Rudy Gestede and Curtis Davies :o
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Lowton did ok at Burnley, I would not be surprised to see Westwood do as well....and he's in the Prem and we aren't.....
Yeah, thanks to shit footballers like Westwood.
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He's had a tough time and had given good service during a time when we have been the worst I can remember. However, from day one, he never really influenced a game, was prone to some really bad mistakes (like the rest of them) and I can only recall his goal at Albion as a highlight.
He's not the worst I have ever seen (Tommy Craig, Neale Cooper spring to mind ) and if he leaves, then I wish him well; his limitations were just exacerbated by the limitations of others.
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Lowton did ok at Burnley, I would not be surprised to see Westwood do as well....and he's in the Prem and we aren't.....
Agree. It's too simplistic to say he's shit. He's had shit games, he's had good games. Overall, he's been let down as the fans have by those above him.
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I can't say I was ever a big fan so I'm not sorry to see him go. I don't get the animosity towards him though, he just wasn't good enough at the end of the day.
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I'll be happy when he's gone, and i'll be happy I never have too watch him in a Villa shirt again.
But i don't wish the bloke any hostility or woe like some. He wasn't a bad egg, he's just not a very good footballer for Aston Villa FC.
There are far worse Villa players on the books that i'd rather see the back of (Gabby, Richards, Hutton, Ross now) but it's a small step in the right direction for me.
I wish him well in his future career
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Completed his medical at Burnley, its happening!
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A very nice, decent human but a professional footballer who played at about 2 levels above his actual ability.
When he first came I really thought with the right balance around him he would go on to be a real star - alas it was not meant to be
I wish him no ill at all - but this does represent another piece of the shit jigsaw that got us to this point over many years being removed
Viva la revolution
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A very nice, decent human but a professional footballer who played at about 2 levels above his actual ability.
When he first came I really thought with the right balance around him he would go on to be a real star - alas it was not meant to be
I wish him no ill at all - but this does represent another piece of the shit jigsaw that got us to this point over many years being removed
Viva la revolution
Spot on.
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Chuffed I never have to see the pansy in a Villa shirt again. I'm sure he's a lovely bloke and all that but he's shit at football. Can't believe we've got £11m for Gestede and Westwood.
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Is the cash confirmed? Or is it loan to buy? Loan to buy obviously a worry!
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Chuffed I never have to see the pansy in a Villa shirt again. I'm sure he's a lovely bloke and all that but he's shit at football. Can't believe we've got £11m for Gestede and Westwood.
Both of which are to a Premier League club, amazing really!
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Is the cash confirmed? Or is it loan to buy? Loan to buy obviously a worry!
SSN mentioned "cash" thought to be in the region of £5m.
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Steve Round has just been pictured pegging it from Turf Moor
(http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article6645694.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/burglar2.jpg)
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All we need now is a Chinese club to offer £73 billion for Agbonlahor, Richards and Hutton and it will be a very decent window.
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Each? :-)
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Each? :-)
I'm not greedy!
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All we need now is a Chinese club to offer £73 billion for Agbonlahor, Richards and Hutton and it will be a very decent window.
You'd think the Doc could have hooked that up. Disappointed in him LOL
ps. Hope you're well pal.
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Come on Swansea, still time to get into a bidding war!
Honestly, I cannot wait to see the back of him. That we're actually getting rid of him and his ridiculous contract, AND getting paid cash for it is nothing short of miraculous. I shall celebrate his transfer every 31 January from now on. Terrible, terrible player, and the living embodiment of our uselessness over the last 4-5 years.
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Lowton did ok at Burnley, I would not be surprised to see Westwood do as well....and he's in the Prem and we aren't.....
Agree. It's too simplistic to say he's shit. He's had shit games, he's had good games. Overall, he's been let down as the fans have by those above him.
He's had shit games many of them there is no doubt. Good games? none spring to mind but he's probably had games where he hasn't been so shit.
The highest praise I can give the player having seen all his home league games since he's been here is that on a few occasions he was average.
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the personification of the Lambert years - egregious
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So if the reports are true and we're getting 5m for Westwood that's the same price as Lansbury and hourihane. Amazing bit off buissness
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Don't forget: Westwood is a proven PL performer ....
... and can point a lot.
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So if the reports are true and we're getting 5m for Westwood that's the same price as Lansbury and hourihane. Amazing bit off buissness
Amazing!!! Best of luck Westwood. I look forward to seeing you in claret and blue next in sunny Lancashire, hopefully in the Premiership.
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So he'll officially be a Burnley FC player by the end of the day.
I'm convinced he'll still manage to find a way into our starting line up tonight...
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So he'll officially be a Burnley FC player by the end of the day.
I'm convinced he'll still manage to find a way into our starting line up tonight...
We'll get him in on loan at precisely 19.44 and 59 seconds, and he'll be back, running around, pointing.
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Can we see him stretching the Burnley shirt, so that we can be sure he's left?
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Way kit just in case he's still hiding in one of ours
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https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/826471364550856704
Gone!
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Confirmed on o/s
Ashley Westwood has left Villa to join Burnley.
The midfielder heads to Turf Moor until 2020.
Westwood joined us from Crewe in the summer of 2012 and made 22 appearances this season – and 161 in total, scoring five goals.
Good luck for the future, Ashley.
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Blimey Burnley bought him rather than just loaned with an option.
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the personification of the Lambert years - egregious
[/quote
Twice Ive read that word today...what it mean? (Please)
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Good luck Ash. A decent lad with a very good attitude albeit of limited talent.
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Let's all have a disco.
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Goodbye Willo the wisp.
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No Ashley Westwood......
There's only no Ashley Westwood !!!
Terrific !!
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Not good enough.
He reminded me of another not-good-enough finger-pointing midfielder in NRC. Although NRC didn't just do the pointing, he used to do the pre-match huddles as well.
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Never understood the vile he got, Wish him well in the future and hope he gets a decent reception when we can play against the countries elite again!
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Rejoice, rejoice! Ring all the bells from Aston to St Barnabas, from Pype Hayes to Perry Barr, dance, slaughter a goat, and pray to the sumptuous Christ that miracles really do happen.
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I hope he does well up there. It didn't work out at Villa but like others have said the bile and spite was out of order.
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So farewell then Ashley Westwood
You used to point a lot
It was
Really annoying
Eric J Thribwood-Gardner age 17 and a half.
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I will miss the sideways and backwards passing...
I hope he does it for Burnley but just can't see it happening....
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Excellent news. Thank fuck we don't have to watch this non-event of a footballer anymore.
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His move to Turf Moor ends a four-and-a-half year stay at Villa Park for the former Crewe Alexandra captain.
Westwood made 162 appearances for Villa, including 124 in the Premier League, and helped the Midlands club reach the 2015 FA Cup final against Arsenal.
But after relegation to the Championship last season, and a high turnover of managers and players at Villa Park, Westwood welcomed the chance of a move to Burnley and the chance to revive his Premier League career.
He told Clarets Player: “I’m delighted to be here. It’s happened fast but I’ve been made to feel very welcome and I can’t wait to get going.
“It feels like a proper football club and homely and that’s what I like. I like to be appreciated and I think I will definitely get that here.
“The manager at Villa said I could speak to Burnley and for me that was perfect – a fresh start because things had got a bit stale at Villa.
“It’s a fresh start and I want to show people what I can really do.
have had some great times at Villa but recently it’s not been too good. I’m back in the Premier League and I’ve got another chance - coming here into a dressing room like this, full of British talent, and people who want to do well.
“I fit that bill and hopefully we can grow as a team and keep on improving.”
Westwood - a former team-mate of Burnley full-back Matt Lowton in their time together at Villa Park - will watch the Clarets’ game against Premier League champions Leicester City at Turf Moor on Tuesday night before being eligible for the first time for Saturday’s trip to Watford.
He added: “It’s perfect for me. I didn’t have to think about it. It suits me and it suits the family.
“Driving up the M6 last night past Crewe, I thought ‘yeah, this is where I want to be’ and hopefully that shows in my football now.
“I have watched Burnley and they look a bunch of people who work hard and have definitely got enough talent and hopefully I can add to that.
“For any club to stay in the Premier League is a big achievement. Burnley are doing very well and hopefully that can keep improving.”
Fee undisclosed, is talk of £5m credible ? Maybe we only got £500k...
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He looks delighted to be there.
(http://i.imgur.com/nLAimWk.jpg)
That's almost as bad as the "holding the shirt like it was covered with pigeon shit" Anelka photo when he joined Albion
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Amazing business
dyche needs his head looking at
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trying to look fucking hard which will all disappear as soon he is asked to make his first challenge in a game.
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Never understood the vile he got, Wish him well in the future and hope he gets a decent reception when we can play against the countries elite again!
When we get promoted he certainly won't still be playing in the PL, even if we can make it this season. If Burnley intend for him to be a regular starter then they will be speeding the date of their relegation.
This isn't me being vile, it's just that he's physically feeble, he's a "pushover". Would love to see him playing against us.
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Rejoice! Rejoice!
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He looks delighted to be there.
(http://i.imgur.com/nLAimWk.jpg)
That's almost as bad as the "holding the shirt like it was covered with pigeon shit" Anelka photo when he joined Albion
He looks like he's waiting to be seen by the club dentist.
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Never understood the vile he got, Wish him well in the future and hope he gets a decent reception when we can play against the countries elite again!
When we get promoted he certainly won't still be playing in the PL, even if we can make it this season. If Burnley intend for him to be a regular starter then they will be speeding the date of their relegation.
This isn't me being vile, it's just that he's physically feeble, he's a "pushover". Would love to see him playing against us.
Wait and see. If he does well it won't be the first time Dyche has turned a player around.
What's the point in being spiteful after the event? It can only come back and bite you.
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I wish him all the best at Burnley.
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Couldn't help but laugh at this bit
“Driving up the M6 last night past Crewe, I thought ‘yeah, this is where I want to be''
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Never understood the vile he got, Wish him well in the future and hope he gets a decent reception when we can play against the countries elite again!
When we get promoted he certainly won't still be playing in the PL, even if we can make it this season. If Burnley intend for him to be a regular starter then they will be speeding the date of their relegation.
This isn't me being vile, it's just that he's physically feeble, he's a "pushover". Would love to see him playing against us.
Wait and see. If he does well it won't be the first time Dyche has turned a player around.
What's the point in being spiteful after the event? It can only come back and bite you.
Wish him well apart from when he plays us.
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Couldn't help but laugh at this bit
“Driving up the M6 last night past Crewe, I thought ‘yeah, this is where I want to be''
Me too, I doubt that sentence has ever been used before.
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I wish him all the best, but he stands for the mediocrity for which we have become all to used to. The ineptitude of owners and numerous managers didn't do him any favours but he never offered anything.
Anyway who's going to be the new scapegoat if things go wrong?
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Good for him, good for us. early on he was a young player you thought might break through, but he went backwards alarmingly to the point where he was on his very best day "not our worst player" and on most days ineffectual or a downright liability. Never faulted his attitude so he has that for him.
If Dyke can turn him around then fairplay to him. I am just amazed and glad we will make some money out of him.
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I wish him all the best, but he stands for the mediocrity for which we have become all to used to. The ineptitude of owners and numerous managers didn't do him any favours but he never offered anything.
Anyway who's going to be the new scapegoat if things go wrong?
There's still Gabby and Micah
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I wish him all the best, but he stands for the mediocrity for which we have become all to used to. The ineptitude of owners and numerous managers didn't do him any favours but he never offered anything.
Anyway who's going to be the new scapegoat if things go wrong?
There's still Gabby and Micah
Elphick, Bacuna, Hutton, Gardner, Bunn, Grealish, McCormack. This is an area in which we have an abundance of riches at our disposal even before the inevitable new recruits. Plus it's all the fault of Steve Hodge anyway.
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Happy "Ashley Westwood Has Left The Club Day" everybody, did anybody actually drive him there themselves?
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All the best Ashley, we'll always have, er, erm, Albion away!
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Happy "Ashley Westwood Has Left The Club Day" everybody, did anybody actually drive him there themselves?
Buy an Ashley Westwood get an Alan Hutton free in the back seat of my Allegro.
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Couldn't help but laugh at this bit
“Driving up the M6 last night past Crewe, I thought ‘yeah, this is where I want to be''
Mr Shin loves Crewe as well. That's why he had me drive there on the way to Wigan via Wrexham ;)
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Happy "Ashley Westwood Has Left The Club Day" everybody, did anybody actually drive him there themselves?
I went to pick him up and he made it really look like he was getting in the car, but somehow he got nowhere near it, and I ended up in Burnley without the big empty crisp packet.
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Couldn't help but laugh at this bit
“Driving up the M6 last night past Crewe, I thought ‘yeah, this is where I want to be''
Mr Shin loves Crewe as well. That's why he had me drive there on the way to Wigan via Wrexham ;)
Says the bloke with his satnav on and still not believing me when I said we were heading for Wales!
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Couldn't help but laugh at this bit
“Driving up the M6 last night past Crewe, I thought ‘yeah, this is where I want to be''
Mr Shin loves Crewe as well. That's why he had me drive there on the way to Wigan via Wrexham ;)
Says the bloke with his satnav on and still not believing me when I said we were heading for Wales!
I thought I was the one always going on about Crewe. I like the place but then I did live be there for quite a while. I hope Ashley does well at Burnley too.
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Here's the stretch
(http://video.skysports.com/hzaTZiOTE6vZcnr9m1qwLLFLVlDt7Lep/QCdjB5HwFOTaWQ8X4xMDoxOjBzMTt2bJ)
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I wish the lad no ill will and hope he does well, but he was out of his depth and I'm massively relieved he won't be playing for us again. I still cannot fathom why 4 or 5 managers saw fit to pick him - except for lack of alternatives. Burnley fans can at least rest assured that this signing was not made on the back of YouTube highlights video because you'd be hard pressed to find any.
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Jesus he really does not look happy to be there does he.
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Here's the stretch
(http://video.skysports.com/hzaTZiOTE6vZcnr9m1qwLLFLVlDt7Lep/QCdjB5HwFOTaWQ8X4xMDoxOjBzMTt2bJ)
Yessssssss, the moment we've all waited for.
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Happy "Ashley Westwood Has Left The Club Day" everybody, did anybody actually drive him there themselves?
I went to pick him up and he made it really look like he was getting in the car, but somehow he got nowhere near it, and I ended up in Burnley without the big empty crisp packet.
Do you think you might be getting a teeny bit obsessed?
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Goodbye, good luck, good riddance. I cannot believe we actually got money for him.
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Here's the stretch
(http://video.skysports.com/hzaTZiOTE6vZcnr9m1qwLLFLVlDt7Lep/QCdjB5HwFOTaWQ8X4xMDoxOjBzMTt2bJ)
He looks as happy as i did watching him
great news, in fact im so exciting ive done a love piss
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Happy "Ashley Westwood Has Left The Club Day" everybody, did anybody actually drive him there themselves?
I went to pick him up and he made it really look like he was getting in the car, but somehow he got nowhere near it, and I ended up in Burnley without the big empty crisp packet.
Do you think you might be getting a teeny bit obsessed?
You've spotted that have you Dave?
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Happy "Ashley Westwood Has Left The Club Day" everybody, did anybody actually drive him there themselves?
I went to pick him up and he made it really look like he was getting in the car, but somehow he got nowhere near it, and I ended up in Burnley without the big empty crisp packet.
Do you think you might be getting a teeny bit obsessed?
You've spotted that have you Dave?
I think chrisw1 is a teeny bit obsessed with my obsession.
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Happy "Ashley Westwood Has Left The Club Day" everybody, did anybody actually drive him there themselves?
I went to pick him up and he made it really look like he was getting in the car, but somehow he got nowhere near it, and I ended up in Burnley without the big empty crisp packet.
No Jimbo, he was about 5 yards behind you the whole way.
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Happy "Ashley Westwood Has Left The Club Day" everybody, did anybody actually drive him there themselves?
I went to pick him up and he made it really look like he was getting in the car, but somehow he got nowhere near it, and I ended up in Burnley without the big empty crisp packet.
Do you think you might be getting a teeny bit obsessed?
You've spotted that have you Dave?
I think chrisw1 is a teeny bit obsessed with my obsession.
Let's leave it there then, shall we?
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Moving to a "dressing room like this, full of British talent " I hope Joey Barton doesn't do his French accent.
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I wish him no ill will, just astonishing that so many managers saw fit to continually play him when he contributed so little.
Good lad, and good pro - course he doesn't look happy in those photo's. Have you been to Burnley?
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Good luck to him, he tried his best. His best wasn't good enough on most occasions.
We always looked to have a better midfield shape when he played although his individual contribution infrequently drew the eye.
A good deal for all concerned.
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Bye Westy. How I'll envy the huddled masses in the Turf Moor Mega Dome being tantilised by your Premier League talents.
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Brilliant news.
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Here's the stretch
(http://video.skysports.com/hzaTZiOTE6vZcnr9m1qwLLFLVlDt7Lep/QCdjB5HwFOTaWQ8X4xMDoxOjBzMTt2bJ)
He's got Donald Trump hands.
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It'll be interesting to see how he does up there. Nice enough lad, one of the few who showed any real emotion when we got relegated, always worked hard (probably the only reason he got picked by a long list of managers, now including Sean Dyche), but the bottom line is he contributed next to nothing - doesn't tackle, doesn't challenge for anything in the air, points at players he should be marking, prefers a sideways pass rather than anything incisive, next to no assists and next to no goals. When Bruce finally dropped him and he came on from the bench we regressed. He was out of his depth in the PL and fared no better in the Championship. I wish him well but I'm not sorry he's gone, part of the mental frailty and losing culture that festered in the Lerner years.
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Fair and balanced CJ.
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Jesus he really does not look happy to be there does he.
Burnley is one of the biggest shitholes in the entire UK.
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Thank you for being a villa man best of luck in the claret and blue of burnley
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Jesus he really does not look happy to be there does he.
Burnley is one of the biggest shitholes in the entire UK.
Something we can surely all agree on.
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just hope we didn't give them a receipt
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*Generic neutral response*
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Good luck Ash. Unfortunately not good enough but equally he was part of a club in turmoil. I feel there's probably a better player there than we saw.
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Good luck to him. He tried, he actually cared. He sort of won me round last season when he cried when we went down. It showed it mattered.
He showed promise in that first year but just seemed to gradually lose confidence from then on and persistently went hiding in games. Almost to the point he was actively avoiding the ball at times. He'd clock the yards, but without influencing the game at all.
Still, for the fact that he wasn't an absolute shit pile like some of the players we've had, I hope he does alright.
For what it's worth, a new place, less pressure, and a manager who clearly seems to rate him, and I think, like Lowton, he'll probably do alright. I won't miss him, but I do hope he does well. Whereas someone like McCormack say can just fuck the fuck off.
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Good luck to him, as people say he's a nice guy who always tried his best, it's just his limitations were laid open for all to see by playing in some very poor squads with even poorer midfields.
A quick look at some of the player's analysis on various sites have his strong points listed as: short/long passing, agility, ball control, stamina, composure and vision, and to me that seems pretty accurate. What you get is a player that can sit in midfield, seeks to react, intercept, or contain and close down the ball when out of possession (rather than tackling), and when in possession keeps the midfield 'ticking over' with mainly short to medium length simple passes, and the odd long ball, to the right creative players, rather than runs and dribbling past opponents.
To me that's exactly what he did for us, and pretty well when he had the right players around him to create the correct balance in midfield at the start (so much so some pundits were calling for an England call up), but with poorer players around him all of the the things he doesn't do so well, or does poorly, got highlighted. He's very much a player in the Carrick mould, though not as good obviously, and Carrick is/was much stronger in other areas of his game. But unless you're generally paying top dollar, you're not going to get players that are 'total footballers' that are strong in all areas and that's where the correct gelling of players with different, but complementary, attributes comes in. I think he could do well at Burnley, Dyche will know how to play him, and who to play him with, and ironically i think he's better suited to the more technical game of the premier league than the rough and tumble of the championship.
Doesn't deserve the stick he's been getting from a lot of the fans on here IMO, but do think it's the right move for him and us, and think he's been left a bit psychologically scarred by the events at Villa over the last 4 years or so.
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Yes, we can agree that Burnley is one of the biggest shitholes in the whole UK. However, since he only has to play there once every couple of Saturdays, on a Premier League wedge the fabulous pile he can afford somewhere in the Ribble Valley will more than compensate
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Genuinely interested to see how he does
I don't think there was genuine premier league interest in any of our other midfielders
But time to move on. Good to get £5m. Really hope he does well
Of al the players with stinking attitudes he was so far away from the worst offenders
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Yes, we can agree that Burnley is one of the biggest shitholes in the whole UK. However, since he only has to play there once every couple of Saturdays, on a Premier League wedge the fabulous pile he can afford somewhere in the Ribble Valley will more than compensate
Yes, lots of lovely places within a short drive.
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Good deal for us but this statement sort of explains some of the divisions down at VP "“Coming here into a dressing room like this, full of British talent, and people who want to do well."
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Bye Westy. How I'll envy the huddled masses in the Turf Moor Mega Dome being tantilised by your Premier League talents.
Bless him, quote from meaning evil:
'I like to be appreciated and I think I will definitely get that here'.
Until he starts playing
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Yes, we can agree that Burnley is one of the biggest shitholes in the whole UK. However, since he only has to play there once every couple of Saturdays, on a Premier League wedge the fabulous pile he can afford somewhere in the Ribble Valley will more than compensate
Yes, lots of lovely places within a short drive.
I remember going to Burnley in the early 70s for an FA Cup tie (which we lost) and on the walk up from the station along cobbled streets of tiny terraced houses, thinking I'd gone back in time to the most depressing of Victorian slums. Quite something for a lad who was growing up in Smethwick at the time. Nevertheless you'd have thought a return to the PL would have made him a bit happier than he looks.
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I bet he's laughing himself
Stupid tonight re Brentford
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Yes, we can agree that Burnley is one of the biggest shitholes in the whole UK. However, since he only has to play there once every couple of Saturdays, on a Premier League wedge the fabulous pile he can afford somewhere in the Ribble Valley will more than compensate
Yes, lots of lovely places within a short drive.
Agreed, Burnley is surrounded by some of the most stunning scenery in the country , but the town itself isn't a shithole at all, let alone one of the biggest in the UK.
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Yes, we can agree that Burnley is one of the biggest shitholes in the whole UK. However, since he only has to play there once every couple of Saturdays, on a Premier League wedge the fabulous pile he can afford somewhere in the Ribble Valley will more than compensate
Yes, lots of lovely places within a short drive.
Agreed, Burnley is surrounded by some of the most stunning scenery in the country , but the town itself isn't a shithole at all, let alone one of the biggest in the UK.
Has it been knocked down and rebuilt in the last 10 years?
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Glad to see we were so much better without him tonight!
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Yes, we can agree that Burnley is one of the biggest shitholes in the whole UK. However, since he only has to play there once every couple of Saturdays, on a Premier League wedge the fabulous pile he can afford somewhere in the Ribble Valley will more than compensate
Yes, lots of lovely places within a short drive.
Agreed, Burnley is surrounded by some of the most stunning scenery in the country , but the town itself isn't a shithole at all, let alone one of the biggest in the UK.
Has it been knocked down and rebuilt in the last 10 years?
I suppose it's a subjective thing. I stayed there a couple of years ago, and thought it was great, particularly Towneley Hall Park which is an amazing place to have in the heart of town.
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Likes to be appreciated. Fuck.off you precious little twat.
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I appreciate it that he isn't here anymore if that makes him feel a bit better the fanny.
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Likes to be appreciated. Fuck.off you precious little twat.
Seconded. A fucking woeful player. Good riddance.
Thank your for numerous seasons of wanky performances. Unbelievable that he's back in the Premier League.
Anyway, bye. Crying when we were relegated didn't wash with me. You were one of the shittest excuses for a player we had that season.
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Thanks Ashley, you did what a lot of managers asked you to to do. You were
Not the best but you did your best. You didn't take the piss and you loved the club. Hope you enjoy the rest of your career
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I bet he's laughing himself
Stupid tonight re Brentford
I hate poems that don't rhyme
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Likes to be appreciated. Fuck.off you precious little twat.
The thing is, you can understand someone saying something like that if they have genuinely had a rough deal from fans and there has been some positives mixed in with the negatives, but genuinely,what has there been to appreciate about him? Especially this season.
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As ineffective as he was for us, it wouldn't surprise me if he did well at Burnleh. Once they've purged all the Villa coaching from him.
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More like he's given a generic post-signing interview to Pravda where he repeats the first thing he can think of out of the big book of media cliches, without expecting anyone to actually deconstruct the words.
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The transfer, his four years at Villa, it all reminds me of this...
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I was just reading the first page of this thread from November 2012. What went wrong??? It will be interesting to see how he gets on at Burnley. If he's a success that will say an awful lot about how he was coached and managed here under a succession of coaches/managers x
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TBF, I don't have to wait to know that both Lambert and Sherwood were clueless chancers.
Having said that, I think Dyche is a step up from anything he's had previously so I understand your point.
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I was just reading the first page of this thread from November 2012. What went wrong??? It will be interesting to see how he gets on at Burnley. If he's a success that will say an awful lot about how he was coached and managed here under a succession of coaches/managers x
Nothing went wrong. We signed a dud out of his depth and he was overrated from day one.
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Yes, we can agree that Burnley is one of the biggest shitholes in the whole UK. However, since he only has to play there once every couple of Saturdays, on a Premier League wedge the fabulous pile he can afford somewhere in the Ribble Valley will more than compensate
Yes, lots of lovely places within a short drive.
I remember going to Burnley in the early 70s for an FA Cup tie (which we lost) and on the walk up from the station along cobbled streets of tiny terraced houses, thinking I'd gone back in time to the most depressing of Victorian slums. Quite something for a lad who was growing up in Smethwick at the time. Nevertheless you'd have thought a return to the PL would have made him a bit happier than he looks.
I was there; we lost 1-0 and got showered by golf balls from the home fans.
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Yes, we can agree that Burnley is one of the biggest shitholes in the whole UK. However, since he only has to play there once every couple of Saturdays, on a Premier League wedge the fabulous pile he can afford somewhere in the Ribble Valley will more than compensate
Yes, lots of lovely places within a short drive.
I remember going to Burnley in the early 70s for an FA Cup tie (which we lost) and on the walk up from the station along cobbled streets of tiny terraced houses, thinking I'd gone back in time to the most depressing of Victorian slums. Quite something for a lad who was growing up in Smethwick at the time. Nevertheless you'd have thought a return to the PL would have made him a bit happier than he looks.
I was there; we lost 1-0 and got showered by golf balls from the home fans.
Its still as shite now. Terrible place, terrible ground and horrible fans..
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They also had a horrible chairman who ran the FA as his personal fiefdom.
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Correct Brian. Ladies and Gentlemen I give you...Bob Lord. What an arsehole.
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I was just reading the first page of this thread from November 2012. What went wrong??? It will be interesting to see how he gets on at Burnley. If he's a success that will say an awful lot about how he was coached and managed here under a succession of coaches/managers x
I was reading the first few pages too - NorIronVillan getting a pasting for telling like it was when everyone else seemed to be getting carried away after Westwood had an ok game, vying with Bannan for MOTM. I suppose in the early days you are always going to give them a chance and accentuate the positives but it seems NIV had it nailed early doors.
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Somebody posted on here in the past one of the greatest put downs about pointy. Had me in stitches and still remains a favourite that will for me forever be tied to his memory playing for Villa:
"We almost got shot of him last summer but unfortunately Dyche came to his senses".
I cannot believe we made him a millionaire.
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If you read the thread at the start most were very happy with him because he looked good and was playing well with confidence. He looked an excellent prospect. This NorIronVillan chap who was looking for arguments.
Westwood form dipped with the whole side and during the last few years his confidence probably hit rock bottom which wouldn't have been helped with the boos and threats he received in the city.
The only strange thing at the start of this thread was a post mentioning Westwood's wife as if they knew her closely and reporting how bad his injury was.
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I enjoyed this.
Good luck to him.
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I don't think he's as bad as some make out. I think it's more the case that he was a young player in a squad that was shrouded in turmoil for years. Like the fans, he ended up being drained of belief and that wasn't helped by the fact he became the #1 target for all that was wrong. A bit unfair given that some of the chancers involved got off relatively lightly.
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I thought he was crap, nothing like good enough.
However, having said that, he seems a decent enough bloke, so I've no problem wishing him all the best at Burnley.
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Good luck the bloke at Burnley
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I thought he was crap, nothing like good enough.
However, having said that, he seems a decent enough bloke, so I've no problem wishing him all the best at Burnley.
I agree. I have been one of the biggest critics of playing him but I would never post abusive comments about him.
If a player is not good enough, you cannot change that. You can criticise the manager for picking him but you cannot have a go at the player.
Players that do not put the effort in when they have clearly shown ability is a different matter. Players that go further than that should not be at the club.
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One of the few who didn't disrespect the shirt last season. Best of luck Ashley
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One of the few who didn't disrespect the shirt last season. Best of luck Ashley
X 2
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Here here
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Agree with the posts above. I don't go to VP as much as most on here but, despite that, I doubt he was as bad as he was as bad as reported.
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I saw every game he ever played for us. He was worse than reported.
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I saw every game he ever played for us. He was worse than reported.
There can be little doubt that he looked a lot worse in the flesh, as it were, compared to the telly viz eon.
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I'll remember all my life,
Running, pointing like a knife.
Stamping on the ground,
Going through the motions.
Taking a shot,
Hitting the space station...
Oh Ashley,
When you played and you stopped us from winning,
But you took home your pay.
Oh Ashley,
When you came and you took without giving,
But you pointed away...
to Burnley.
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It wasn't that he made horrendous gaffs, he just disappeared when needed most. Whole sections of game seem to go by without him getting involved. Not good if you're in central midfield.
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Great work, Jimbo. You should hook up with with that Floyd Wibbler fellow an do a full musical.
Oh, the sadness of the mellow dee. Bought a tear to me rheumy owl eye.
When Barry Manny Low wrote R(M)andy , he wasn't kidding around.
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I saw every game he ever played for us. He was worse than reported.
Haha! Fair enough!
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He was a poor player but we have had plenty of those. He was never part of the partly purged poisonous crew who actively destabilised the club and deserves credit for that. I wish him well.
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Edit: sorry, wrong thread. Obviously obsessed.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38930981 Westwood claims he was 'rescued by Burnley'.
"I wanted to give it one more go at Villa because I felt I deserved to try and get them back up, but it wasn't meant to be,"
"Thankfully the gaffer here has come in for me and as they say rescued me and I'm back in the top flight now."
He'll probably be a Championship player again sooner rather than later. Nice bloke but just doesn't have the ability to play at the highest level.
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Dyche is no mug. It will be interesting to see how he gets on. I suspect he will do ok.
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He's just bought Westwood. The man is a fucking balloon.
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He's just bought Westwood. The man is a fucking balloon.
Lowton starting week in week out and looking very comfortable all season in the premier league?
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38930981 Westwood claims he was 'rescued by Burnley'.
"I wanted to give it one more go at Villa because I felt I deserved to try and get them back up, but it wasn't meant to be,"
"Thankfully the gaffer here has come in for me and as they say rescued me and I'm back in the top flight now."
He'll probably be a Championship player again sooner rather than later. Nice bloke but just doesn't have the ability to play at the highest level.
Rescued you?
the cheeky c***
Weve been rescued from your shit floaty corners, square and backward ten yard passes, pointing and having the physical presence of an 8 year old girl
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38930981 Westwood claims he was 'rescued by Burnley'.
"I wanted to give it one more go at Villa because I felt I deserved to try and get them back up, but it wasn't meant to be,"
"Thankfully the gaffer here has come in for me and as they say rescued me and I'm back in the top flight now."
He'll probably be a Championship player again sooner rather than later. Nice bloke but just doesn't have the ability to play at the highest level.
Rescued you?
the cheeky c***
Weve been rescued from your shit floaty corners, square and backward ten yard passes, pointing and having the physical presence of an 8 year old girl
Precisely. What an arrogant worthless bastard.
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In fairness he was generally derided here so it's a bit much for us to expect him to look back fondly.
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In fairness he was generally derided here so it's a bit much for us to expect him to look back fondly.
I was being fair when I described him as an arrogant worthless bastard.
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Give the guy a break. He's been lambasted for 3 years so you can't blame him for thinking thank f**k that's over. Works both ways.
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Come on what with all these new signings we havent worked out who our new hate figure is yet. Ashley Westwood is our default setting.
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The guys confidence was totally shot and just reading some of these comments make you understand why. He really was not a bad player, probably not what we needed in the latter stages. I recall arguing with someone at Brighton when he was given a hospital pass and lost out, the guy started giving him grief and it was totally Amavis fault with the pass. Sean Dyche is certainly not a balloon as mentioned above, he is a bloke who knows how to get the best out of his players. I read a local newspaper reporter saying Westwood came on with 15 left last week and made an impression on the game. I agree it was best for both parties for him to go, but I don't agree he is a poor player
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Give the guy a break. He's been lambasted for 3 years so you can't blame him for thinking thank f**k that's over. Works both ways.
Yep.
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Give the guy a break. He's been lambasted for 3 years so you can't blame him for thinking thank f**k that's over. Works both ways.
Been lambasted for being shit along with many others
he didnt get a quarter of the shit that bacuna got and when he did get stick after preston away it was deserved
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Ash may have disappointed us but is not arrogant, in fact a more honest bloke you could not meet..he has been derided by many people on here for years, and even though he wasn't performing there is no need to get so personal.
I wish him no ill and the best of luck.
Let's get behind the players we have now
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Let's just be glad he's gone, something we can all agree on is £5m is a hell of a lot of money for a scarecrow.
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The guys confidence was totally shot and just reading some of these comments make you understand why. He really was not a bad player, probably not what we needed in the latter stages. I recall arguing with someone at Brighton when he was given a hospital pass and lost out, the guy started giving him grief and it was totally Amavis fault with the pass. Sean Dyche is certainly not a balloon as mentioned above, he is a bloke who knows how to get the best out of his players. I read a local newspaper reporter saying Westwood came on with 15 left last week and made an impression on the game. I agree it was best for both parties for him to go, but I don't agree he is a poor player
well said, Sir!
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I keep hearing how he's such a nice bloke. He was certainly nice and kind to opposing players, but how does anybody know how nice he is in real life? It took me about a year and a half to recognise his face, so anonymous was he on the pitch.
Maybe some of you attended some kind of Ashley Westwood Nice Guy coffee mornings, or something? I didn't get the invite, so I can only base a judgement on what he's said in the press.
Since signing for Burnley with a face like a bowl of cold custard, all I've heard is him talking about going where he's appreciated, to a proper club, and how he's been rescued from Villa, the club that plucked him out of lower-league obscurity, played him at every opportunity, gave him years of support (before he was found out), kept him for nearly five years and made him rich beyond his fucking dreams.
I don't know about 'nice bloke', he sounds more like an ungrateful, deluded, and ever so slightly catty twit to me. That's on top of being a piss-poor excuse for a midfielder.
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When he gave the ball away for the Preston goal, he had passed back a few moments earlier and got seriously booed by us, so he received the ball somewhere where he should really have passed back, and tried to play it instead. (that was something I picked up on one of my visits to the club). This was given as an example of why getting on players backs can be so counterproductive.
Don't get me wrong - I do think our players do need to be tough enough to choose the right ball regardless of any stick they might be getting, but I also think we also need to ask ourselves whether sabotaging our own players in that way is the best use of our support.
I think Ashley Westwood came to us a promising player (as is shown by the early stages of this thread) and was badly affected by how difficult a period we were in. As people have also said, the only one who looked seriously upset by our relegation - a player who really feels stuff so the shitstorm affected him worse than others. In the end, it became a horrible vicious circle with us and him, which was never going to turn from a downward to upward spiral and was painful for both him and us to live with.
It was a good move for him, he needed to go. I hope he is tougher, and I wish him well.
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Fair comments, amfy, but I think you have to look at it in context. Westwood had been given years of support and turned in some of the weakest, most anonymous performances we've ever seen from a Villa midfielder in return. We dropped down a division because of him and his ilk, and still he couldn't cut it.
At Preston, not only did he make a mistake, but he didn't try to rectify it. He just stopped, put his hands up and allowed them to go on and score. That's when he started getting major stick from the fans. If the fans sabotaged Westwood, what had he been doing to our midfield for the best part of five dreary, disastrous years?
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We were on Westwood's back at Preston because we were full to the brim of watching his shit week in week out. He was weak physically and mentally.
Ive watched nigh on every game we've played the past 26 years and I cannot recall a single player who would wind me up like him. He was so out of his depth that it wasn't funny.
By the time relegation had been accepted he was the source of black humour. Id try and shout and invective at him such as "a wanker like you has played 150 times for us" and end up laughing at how fucking riduclous that somebody as awful as him had managed that. More apparences than John Carew! Haha! I'd like to have seen him put in a trebuchet with a bag of badgers infected with TB and launched anywhere but Villa Park.
Absolute shite player of the lowest quality who, and I apologise for repeating myself for the 2000 time, the poster boy for our decline.
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If we needed a poster boy for our decline the are quite a few I'd have on my wall ahead of him. As it happens we weren't short of them, and we have had enough who were 'WILFULLY poor', as opposed to 'drained of confidence poor,' to not need to give him the level of stick he got.
He does need to be tougher though, because it's that, his inability to cope with the stick, that turned him into a poorer and poorer player the longer he was with us.
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It's his lack of contribution to.anything meaningful. We could play Chester in the midfield if we're after accurate square balls. What did he do going forwards? One ball at Norwich and one goal at the Albion is all that sticks out.
His weak physical presence and the complete in ability to stop runners drifting off him was criminal.
A shocking player never in a million years good enough to play in the top flight.
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What was said by some fans at the beginning of Westwood's time with us didn't really chime with me. I never saw anything that suggested he was going to be any good, and so it turned out. Some vociferously pointed that out, and got shot down in flames on this site.
The best anyone could say of Westwood is he turned up for training and didn't take the piss off the pitch. When on it he ran his heart out to little effect and sometimes 'kept the ball moving', which for a footballer is hardly an achievement. These are the kindest things I can say about him.
I think some of the things said about him at the start were more out of hope and the kind of subjective football fan's enthusiasm that imbues our own players with more promise than they're ever likely to fulfil. See also Amavi as a full-back.
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Some very harsh commentary on here re Westwood. The club turned out to be too much for him but that's been the case for umpteen other players, managers etc many of which were signed for a lot more. He was a decent signing with potential, didn't quite work out but we haven't lost any money on him.
Sean Dyche isn't a head banger so obviously sees something in him. Lowton looked out of his depth too with us but appears to be holding his position. Burnley are 20 odd places above us at the moment too let's not forget
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Yeah no great loss. Showed promise at the start, but faded quickly and just does very little. The midfield has been too light weight and I think he was part of that problem.
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He can't actually kick a ball properly.
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Lucky man getting out of that mess at villa park
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We've certainly improved since getting rid of him.
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He's making his debut today at home to Chelsea.
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He's making his debut today at home to Chelsea.
Yeah and he's already losing.
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His first contribution was to point and then watch Moses waltz through the middle to set up a goal for Chelsea.
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It's reassuring, in a way.
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I can't wait to see the relationship between Barton and Wetwood develop.
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Seriously, does the poor ****** still have to take shit on here now that he's Burnley's problem?
For someone so supposedly 'anonymous' he doesn't half get himself front and centre for a lot of people!
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Yes.
Just gave the ball away to Hazard and had to 'take one for the team' in order to make up for it.
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Quote from yahoo sport: First booking of the match is just about the most obvious one you will see all weekend as Westwood cynically hacks down Hazard after previously giving the ball away in a dangerous position inside his own half.
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I was genuinely expecting a thirty yard pile-driver today (and middle finger to the camera)
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Usual bog standard stuff from Westwood and terrible pass which lead to his booking.
Thought Lowton played well though and nearly scored, he's been a good signing for Burnley and in a more defensive minded team I think he's a decent full back.
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Usual bog standard stuff from Westwood and terrible pass which lead to his booking.
Thought Lowton played well though and nearly scored, he's been a good signing for Burnley and in a more defensive minded team I think he's a decent full back.
I always liked Lowton and I saw his goal against Stoke on telly the other day - it was even better than I remembered it live!
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Lowton might also have been coached to be a Premier League full-back. Silly things like positioning, awareness and tracking runners.
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Yes and that.
He's always been slow but as you said you can coach better positioning. I liked his technique and crossing, he certainly had something that suggested he could make a living as a top level footballer.
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Poor old Westy playing in a side that takes a point off the runaway Premiership leaders just think he could have played for us yesterday
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What everyone is missing is that he probably took a pay cut to play for Burnley.
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I don't get the bitterness shown towards him still, i'm sure he's devastated to have played his part in an excellent team performance that held the champions elect rather than sitting on the bench watching Aston Villa lose at home to Ipswich Town in the Championship.
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Exactly. But Dyche is such a mug etc etc...
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I caught the end of the Sky commentary and heard them say he played well. He was never the player portrayed by some on these pages.
Good luck to him.
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Yes and that.
He's always been slow but as you said you can coach better positioning. I liked his technique and crossing, he certainly had something that suggested he could make a living as a top level footballer.
He was a reasonable footballer, his achilles heel was he got skinned regularly by any winger with a bit of pace. As you say a bit of coaching seems to have helped him cope with that. Perhaps we should try that approach.
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Yes and that.
He's always been slow but as you said you can coach better positioning. I liked his technique and crossing, he certainly had something that suggested he could make a living as a top level footballer.
He was a reasonable footballer, his achilles heel was he got skinned regularly by any winger with a bit of pace. As you say a bit of coaching seems to have helped him cope with that. Perhaps we should try that approach.
Funnily enough I think one of the biggest issues was just how big our pitch is....you always hear opposition players saying how big and wide VP is to play on so with Lambert wanting to play a high line and 4-3-3 the FBs would get regularly exposed.
At Turf Moor is much tighter and the formation Dyche plays is much more rigid so full backs will get helped out.
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It's amazing how many of our so called shit players are currently back in the PL:
Gestede, Ayew, Adama, Lowton, Westwood, Lescott, Guzan - have I missed anyone?
What does this all mean? ???
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It's amazing how many of our so called shit players are currently back in the PL:
Gestede, Ayew, Adama, Lowton, Westwood, Lescott, Guzan - have I missed anyone?
What does this all mean? ???
It means they're gonna try and relegate their new clubs as well.
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Yeah, in some cases, I think it's desperation on behalf a of of their new Manager, except Burnley, who are having a great season. We could learn from how hard they work because I think we have as many useful players as them! Clearly, they are harder working and better managed though.
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Let's not pretend that he's anything other than utter horseshit. An absolute powderpuff and wet fart of a player.
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Let's not pretend that he's anything other than utter horseshit. An absolute powderpuff and wet fart of a player.
Just out of interest, what's your opinion of Sean Dyche?
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Yes and that.
He's always been slow but as you said you can coach better positioning. I liked his technique and crossing, he certainly had something that suggested he could make a living as a top level footballer.
He was a reasonable footballer, his achilles heel was he got skinned regularly by any winger with a bit of pace. As you say a bit of coaching seems to have helped him cope with that. Perhaps we should try that approach.
Funnily enough I think one of the biggest issues was just how big our pitch is....you always hear opposition players saying how big and wide VP is to play on so with Lambert wanting to play a high line and 4-3-3 the FBs would get regularly exposed.
At Turf Moor is much tighter and the formation Dyche plays is much more rigid so full backs will get helped out.
PL pitch sizes have been standardized at 105 x 68 m for several years now.
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Let's not pretend that he's anything other than utter horseshit. An absolute powderpuff and wet fart of a player.
Agreed. Sooner or later Burnley will be relegated with him in the team.
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Let's not pretend that he's anything other than utter horseshit. An absolute powderpuff and wet fart of a player.
Just out of interest, what's your opinion of Sean Dyche?
Hello Dave, I can't speak for Quinton Villa, but I can say he had my vote in summer before we appointed RDM and I'd take him tomorrow if the chance arose. I bumped into him at the Belfry not long after the season started and said to him " You should have come to the Villa" he just gave a wry smile and was happy to chat . I'm not advocating get rid of SB and hope he goes on to have a fantastic career here but if he doesn't.......
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Vertoute notched today as well.
Barton and Westwood as a two in midfield competing with the probably the run away prem league winners...makes you think about set up, management, motivation, game plans etc. doesn't it.
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Can you imagine Dyche joining us....then making Westwood his first signing!
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Burnley are very industrial in their approach, but they work so hard they never give anyone a easy game, oh for the last 6 years to see a Villa team work as hard and as consistently over a season.
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I can't listen to Dyche. He's nearly as bad as Villas-Boas for having something stuck in his throat.
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Can you imagine Dyche joining us....then making Westwood his first signing!
Only if he has a temporary lapse of reason - on both counts..
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Yes and that.
He's always been slow but as you said you can coach better positioning. I liked his technique and crossing, he certainly had something that suggested he could make a living as a top level footballer.
He was a reasonable footballer, his achilles heel was he got skinned regularly by any winger with a bit of pace. As you say a bit of coaching seems to have helped him cope with that. Perhaps we should try that approach.
Funnily enough I think one of the biggest issues was just how big our pitch is....you always hear opposition players saying how big and wide VP is to play on so with Lambert wanting to play a high line and 4-3-3 the FBs would get regularly exposed.
At Turf Moor is much tighter and the formation Dyche plays is much more rigid so full backs will get helped out.
PL pitch sizes have been standardized at 105 x 68 m for several years now.
I'm not sure that is correct. I heard something on the radio talking about West Hams problems at home this season where they said that the pitch at the new stadium is bigger than at Upton Park, think they said 5 metres longer, not sure how much wider
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Let's not pretend that he's anything other than utter horseshit. An absolute powderpuff and wet fart of a player.
Agreed. Sooner or later Burnley will be relegated with him in the team.
Thats rich coming from someone who supports a team languishing in the championship, fighting for their survival!
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Let's not pretend that he's anything other than utter horseshit. An absolute powderpuff and wet fart of a player.
Agreed. Sooner or later Burnley will be relegated with him in the team.
Thats rich coming from someone who supports a team languishing in the championship, fighting for their survival!
I know. It's thanks to having wankers like Westwood in the team that put us here in the first place!
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Funnily enough I think one of the biggest issues was just how big our pitch is....you always hear opposition players saying how big and wide VP is to play on so with Lambert wanting to play a high line and 4-3-3 the FBs would get regularly exposed.
At Turf Moor is much tighter and the formation Dyche plays is much more rigid so full backs will get helped out.
PL pitch sizes have been standardized at 105 x 68 m for several years now.
I'm not sure that is correct. I heard something on the radio talking about West Hams problems at home this season where they said that the pitch at the new stadium is bigger than at Upton Park, think they said 5 metres longer, not sure how much wider
Yes, that's true enough - the new stadium has the standard 105x68 m pitch, which wasn't possible at Upton Park. The PL board will only give permission to play on a smaller pitch if the standard pitch size is impossible to achieve due to the construction of the ground.
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Couldn't help notice on MOTD that when Brady's free kick went in yesterday the furthest man forward to pick up any potential pieces was Westwood. When he was here he was more or less persona non grata in the opposition box.
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Let's not pretend that he's anything other than utter horseshit. An absolute powderpuff and wet fart of a player.
Agreed. Sooner or later Burnley will be relegated with him in the team.
Thats rich coming from someone who supports a team languishing in the championship, fighting for their survival!
I know. It's thanks to having wankers like Westwood in the team that put us here in the first place!
I think its more to do with having a string of next to useless run of the mill managers who hav'nt got a clue how to get the best out of the players we have
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Let's not pretend that he's anything other than utter horseshit. An absolute powderpuff and wet fart of a player.
Agreed. Sooner or later Burnley will be relegated with him in the team.
Thats rich coming from someone who supports a team languishing in the championship, fighting for their survival!
I know. It's thanks to having wankers like Westwood in the team that put us here in the first place!
Uncalled for... that comment really says more about you than the player.
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Let's not pretend that he's anything other than utter horseshit. An absolute powderpuff and wet fart of a player.
Agreed. Sooner or later Burnley will be relegated with him in the team.
Thats rich coming from someone who supports a team languishing in the championship, fighting for their survival!
I know. It's thanks to having wankers like Westwood in the team that put us here in the first place!
Uncalled for... that comment really says more about you than the player.
Seconded. No need really.
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Let's not pretend that he's anything other than utter horseshit. An absolute powderpuff and wet fart of a player.
Agreed. Sooner or later Burnley will be relegated with him in the team.
Thats rich coming from someone who supports a team languishing in the championship, fighting for their survival!
I know. It's thanks to having wankers like Westwood in the team that put us here in the first place!
Uncalled for... that comment really says more about you than the player.
Christ, are you his dad or something? I curse the day a player as shit as he turned up at the club. Remember that, when we signed all those "young and hungry" gems who were gonna turn into stars. Loads fell for that dirty lie, and we packed out our squad with crap like him and we were slowly and surely dragged down and out of the PL, so forgive me for calling him a wanker because he certainly performed like one in his torturous 5 years here.
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Let's not pretend that he's anything other than utter horseshit. An absolute powderpuff and wet fart of a player.
Agreed. Sooner or later Burnley will be relegated with him in the team.
Thats rich coming from someone who supports a team languishing in the championship, fighting for their survival!
I know. It's thanks to having wankers like Westwood in the team that put us here in the first place!
Uncalled for... that comment really says more about you than the player.
Christ, are you his dad or something? I curse the day a player as shit as he turned up at the club. Remember that, when we signed all those "young and hungry" gems who were gonna turn into stars. Loads fell for that dirty lie, and we packed out our squad with crap like him and we were slowly and surely dragged down and out of the PL, so forgive me for calling him a wanker because he certainly performed like one in his torturous 5 years here.
Gabby is a wanker for taking the piss out of the club. Westwood is a player who wasn't good enough, but certainly wasn't as bad as some make out. He was half decent when he first came
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Bull. He was shit from day one. I remember scratching my head in disbelief when seeing him in a pre-season game just after he signed wondering what the hell we were doing signing rubbish like him (and others). Even funnier was when the club PR machine tried to talk him up for an England place in his first few months here. The most ridiculous part was that so many fans fell for it. Now look at us!
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Bull. He was shit from day one. I remember scratching my head in disbelief when seeing him in a pre-season game just after he signed wondering what the hell we were doing signing rubbish like him (and others). Even funnier was when the club PR machine tried to talk him up for an England place in his first few months here. The most ridiculous part was that so many fans fell for it. Now look at us!
You must love knowing so much more about football that Lambert, Garde, Sherwood, RDM, Bruce and Dyche. How on earth haven't you been snapped up?
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Bull. He was shit from day one. I remember scratching my head in disbelief when seeing him in a pre-season game just after he signed wondering what the hell we were doing signing rubbish like him (and others). Even funnier was when the club PR machine tried to talk him up for an England place in his first few months here. The most ridiculous part was that so many fans fell for it. Now look at us!
Bull. When he was playing in the midfield with Delph alongside him he looked ok. Kept it simple, got the ball, moved it on to the more creative players in the team, did a job. When those better players moved on, he had more responsibility to affect games and be creative, his game isn't up to that which is why he has struggled badly for the last couple of seasons
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Bull. He was shit from day one. I remember scratching my head in disbelief when seeing him in a pre-season game just after he signed wondering what the hell we were doing signing rubbish like him (and others). Even funnier was when the club PR machine tried to talk him up for an England place in his first few months here. The most ridiculous part was that so many fans fell for it. Now look at us!
You must love knowing so much more about football that Lambert, Garde, Sherwood, RDM, Bruce and Dyche. How on earth haven't you been snapped up?
I think it's more like a damning indictment of the state of Aston Villa post 2010 than anything else.
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Bull. He was shit from day one. I remember scratching my head in disbelief when seeing him in a pre-season game just after he signed wondering what the hell we were doing signing rubbish like him (and others). Even funnier was when the club PR machine tried to talk him up for an England place in his first few months here. The most ridiculous part was that so many fans fell for it. Now look at us!
Bull. When he was playing in the midfield with Delph alongside him he looked ok. Kept it simple, got the ball, moved it on to the more creative players in the team, did a job. When those better players moved on, he had more responsibility to affect games and be creative, his game isn't up to that which is why he has struggled badly for the last couple of seasons
So the best you can up with is that at times during his 5 years here he looked "okay" and occasionally "did a job".
Christ what a miss he'll be.
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Bull. He was shit from day one. I remember scratching my head in disbelief when seeing him in a pre-season game just after he signed wondering what the hell we were doing signing rubbish like him (and others). Even funnier was when the club PR machine tried to talk him up for an England place in his first few months here. The most ridiculous part was that so many fans fell for it. Now look at us!
Bull. When he was playing in the midfield with Delph alongside him he looked ok. Kept it simple, got the ball, moved it on to the more creative players in the team, did a job. When those better players moved on, he had more responsibility to affect games and be creative, his game isn't up to that which is why he has struggled badly for the last couple of seasons
So the best you can up with is that at times during his 5 years here he looked "okay" and occasionally "did a job".
Christ what a miss he'll be.
my comment was that he wasn't as bad as some make out, ie he wasn't shit from day one like some say
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Bull. He was shit from day one. I remember scratching my head in disbelief when seeing him in a pre-season game just after he signed wondering what the hell we were doing signing rubbish like him (and others). Even funnier was when the club PR machine tried to talk him up for an England place in his first few months here. The most ridiculous part was that so many fans fell for it. Now look at us!
Bull. When he was playing in the midfield with Delph alongside him he looked ok. Kept it simple, got the ball, moved it on to the more creative players in the team, did a job. When those better players moved on, he had more responsibility to affect games and be creative, his game isn't up to that which is why he has struggled badly for the last couple of seasons
So the best you can up with is that at times during his 5 years here he looked "okay" and occasionally "did a job".
Christ what a miss he'll be.
my comment was that he wasn't as bad as some make out, ie he wasn't shit from day one like some say
Well we'll have to agree to disagree then. If you think the mainstay of possibly the worst midfield era in this club's history wasn't as bad as some make out then who am I to argue.
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Bull. He was shit from day one. I remember scratching my head in disbelief when seeing him in a pre-season game just after he signed wondering what the hell we were doing signing rubbish like him (and others). Even funnier was when the club PR machine tried to talk him up for an England place in his first few months here. The most ridiculous part was that so many fans fell for it. Now look at us!
Bull. When he was playing in the midfield with Delph alongside him he looked ok. Kept it simple, got the ball, moved it on to the more creative players in the team, did a job. When those better players moved on, he had more responsibility to affect games and be creative, his game isn't up to that which is why he has struggled badly for the last couple of seasons
So the best you can up with is that at times during his 5 years here he looked "okay" and occasionally "did a job".
Christ what a miss he'll be.
my comment was that he wasn't as bad as some make out, ie he wasn't shit from day one like some say
Well we'll have to agree to disagree then. If you think the mainstay of possibly the worst midfield era in this club's history wasn't as bad as some make out then who am I to argue.
exactly, who are you to argue :-). Its all about opinions
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Let's not pretend that he's anything other than utter horseshit. An absolute powderpuff and wet fart of a player.
Agreed. Sooner or later Burnley will be relegated with him in the team.
Thats rich coming from someone who supports a team languishing in the championship, fighting for their survival!
I know. It's thanks to having wankers like Westwood in the team that put us here in the first place!
Uncalled for... that comment really says more about you than the player.
Seconded. No need really.
God bless him.
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Couldn't help notice on MOTD that when Brady's free kick went in yesterday the furthest man forward to pick up any potential pieces was Westwood. When he was here he was more or less persona non grata in the opposition box.
He was probably just wandering around wondering where he was supposed to be.
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Bull. He was shit from day one. I remember scratching my head in disbelief when seeing him in a pre-season game just after he signed wondering what the hell we were doing signing rubbish like him (and others). Even funnier was when the club PR machine tried to talk him up for an England place in his first few months here. The most ridiculous part was that so many fans fell for it. Now look at us!
Bull. When he was playing in the midfield with Delph alongside him he looked ok. Kept it simple, got the ball, moved it on to the more creative players in the team, did a job. When those better players moved on, he had more responsibility to affect games and be creative, his game isn't up to that which is why he has struggled badly for the last couple of seasons
So the best you can up with is that at times during his 5 years here he looked "okay" and occasionally "did a job".
Christ what a miss he'll be.
either way he'll probably be a lot better player for someone else than he ever was for us like so many others
which is why I believe its the managers not the players who are to blame for our downfall over the last 5 years
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Let's not pretend that he's anything other than utter horseshit. An absolute powderpuff and wet fart of a player.
Just out of interest, what's your opinion of Sean Dyche?
He's ginger and he sounds like he needs some Halls Soothers.
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Yes and that.
He's always been slow but as you said you can coach better positioning. I liked his technique and crossing, he certainly had something that suggested he could make a living as a top level footballer.
He was a reasonable footballer, his achilles heel was he got skinned regularly by any winger with a bit of pace. As you say a bit of coaching seems to have helped him cope with that. Perhaps we should try that approach.
Funnily enough I think one of the biggest issues was just how big our pitch is....you always hear opposition players saying how big and wide VP is to play on so with Lambert wanting to play a high line and 4-3-3 the FBs would get regularly exposed.
At Turf Moor is much tighter and the formation Dyche plays is much more rigid so full backs will get helped out.
PL pitch sizes have been standardized at 105 x 68 m for several years now.
Ours was larger than those requirements as are a few other grounds.
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PL pitch sizes have been standardized at 105 x 68 m for several years now.
Ours was larger than those requirements as are a few other grounds.
No current PL pitches can be larger then 105 x 68 m (look up the PL Handbook if you like), and that has been the case since the 2013/14 season (I think), when the PL decided to standardize pitch sizes. Some are smaller due to the construction of the ground - I believe Chelsea's pitch is 103 x 67,5 m.
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PL pitch sizes have been standardized at 105 x 68 m for several years now.
Ours was larger than those requirements as are a few other grounds.
I believe Chelsea's pitch is 103 x 67,5 m.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hyDdgF/WEST_STAND_V_WOLVES_1993_94.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hyDdgF)
Got to make room for the Rovers & J.T
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PL pitch sizes have been standardized at 105 x 68 m for several years now.
Ours was larger than those requirements as are a few other grounds.
No current PL pitches can be larger then 105 x 68 m (look up the PL Handbook if you like), and that has been the case since the 2013/14 season (I think), when the PL decided to standardize pitch sizes. Some are smaller due to the construction of the ground - I believe Chelsea's pitch is 103 x 67,5 m.
Ah never knew that....I just assumed there was a suggested size and we and others went above those dimensions.
It does seem we've narrowed the pitch a little this season so the championship are probably more lax on requirements.
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I believe Chelsea's pitch is 103 x 67,5 m.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hyDdgF/WEST_STAND_V_WOLVES_1993_94.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hyDdgF)
Got to make room for the Rovers & J.T
Well done. I'm sure you are aware that this image pre-dates the 2013/14 standardized PL pitch sizes by 20 years.
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That pic isn't Stamford Bridge as there's none of those little blue invalid cars.
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I believe Chelsea's pitch is 103 x 67,5 m.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hyDdgF/WEST_STAND_V_WOLVES_1993_94.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hyDdgF)
Got to make room for the Rovers & J.T
Well done. I'm sure you are aware that this image pre-dates the 2013/14 standardized PL pitch sizes by 20 years.
so do my eyes
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PL pitch sizes have been standardized at 105 x 68 m for several years now.
Ours was larger than those requirements as are a few other grounds.
No current PL pitches can be larger then 105 x 68 m (look up the PL Handbook if you like), and that has been the case since the 2013/14 season (I think), when the PL decided to standardize pitch sizes. Some are smaller due to the construction of the ground - I believe Chelsea's pitch is 103 x 67,5 m.
Ah never knew that....I just assumed there was a suggested size and we and others went above those dimensions.
It does seem we've narrowed the pitch a little this season so the championship are probably more lax on requirements.
Probably, yes. Outside of the PL, I think a pitch is required to have a length no less than 100, but no more than 130 yards, and a width no less than 50, but no more than 100 yards. I haven't been able to find any specific championship pitch requirements.
Edit: Bah. Found it. Required pitch size in the EFL: length: 110-120 yds (100-110 m), width: 70-80 yds (64-75 m). So, in theory, the pitch could indeed be 4 m narrower this season.
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so do my eyes
Ok. Presumably, there's a point somewhere in there. But I'm unable to spot it.
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its quite funny that a few on here would like sean dyche as a manager for us, but the same sean dyche obviously rates westwood as a player lowton to who wasn't good enough for us
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Yeah, the Lowton and Westwood that aren't good enough for us and who are playing a league above
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I want to hear more about the pitch sizes, fascinating reading.
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I want to hear more about the pitch sizes, fascinating reading.
I've just popped on to see if there was any more updates on that subject
Pretty disappointing to find people just talking about bloody football managers
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I want to hear more about the pitch sizes, fascinating reading.
I've just popped on to see if there was any more updates on that subject
Pretty disappointing to find people just talking about bloody football managers
want to hear about yards or metric ??
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By scan reading I may have misunderstood but I was getting an inference that our shitness is being amplified by the wide expanse of playing field we embarrass ourselves on.
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It says everything you need to know about Ashley Westwood that people end up discussing the standardisation of association football pitches on a thread dedicated to him.
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I want to hear more about the pitch sizes, fascinating reading.
Why, oh why, oh why is the length of a cricket pitch 22 yards i.e a "chain", but bowling speeds are generally expressed in kilometers per hour?
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Why O Why has Aberdeenshire Council planted trees on public football pitches? Does the SFA have some sort of pitch dimensions (excluding trees) agenda? I blame Russon. The spokesperson on TV was wearing a claret and blue woolly hat.
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It says everything you need to know about Ashley Westwood that people end up discussing the standardisation of association football pitches on a thread dedicated to him.
He kept the conversation moving to a better topic, neat and tidy.
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Why O Why has Aberdeenshire Council planted trees on public football pitches? Does the SFA have some sort of pitch dimensions (excluding trees) agenda? I blame Russon. The spokesperson on TV was wearing a claret and blue woolly hat.
Planting trees on a football pitch is criminal.
Someone should call the copse
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Why O Why has Aberdeenshire Council planted trees on public football pitches? Does the SFA have some sort of pitch dimensions (excluding trees) agenda? I blame Russon. The spokesperson on TV was wearing a claret and blue woolly hat.
Planting trees on a football pitch is criminal.
Someone should call the copse
Bring back the birch!
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This is a pointer called Westy watching the running dogs go by.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Pointer_angielski_LM.jpg/220px-Pointer_angielski_LM.jpg)
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Planting trees on a football pitch is criminal.
Someone should call the copse
It is most definitety an arboration
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Bull. He was shit from day one. I remember scratching my head in disbelief when seeing him in a pre-season game just after he signed wondering what the hell we were doing signing rubbish like him (and others). Even funnier was when the club PR machine tried to talk him up for an England place in his first few months here. The most ridiculous part was that so many fans fell for it. Now look at us!
Bull. When he was playing in the midfield with Delph alongside him he looked ok. Kept it simple, got the ball, moved it on to the more creative players in the team, did a job. When those better players moved on, he had more responsibility to affect games and be creative, his game isn't up to that which is why he has struggled badly for the last couple of seasons
So the best you can up with is that at times during his 5 years here he looked "okay" and occasionally "did a job".
Christ what a miss he'll be.
Your comments seem to display a distinct lack of perception about football, football players and how football teams are built... but from experience that doesn't surprise me. I'll requote for you what i wrote earlier in the thread about his leaving:
Good luck to him, as people say he's a nice guy who always tried his best, it's just his limitations were laid open for all to see by playing in some very poor squads with even poorer midfields.
A quick look at some of the player's analysis on various sites have his strong points listed as: short/long passing, agility, ball control, stamina, composure and vision, and to me that seems pretty accurate. What you get is a player that can sit in midfield, seeks to react, intercept, or contain and close down the ball when out of possession (rather than tackling), and when in possession keeps the midfield 'ticking over' with mainly short to medium length simple passes, and the odd long ball, to the right creative players, rather than runs and dribbling past opponents.
To me that's exactly what he did for us, and pretty well when he had the right players around him to create the correct balance in midfield at the start (so much so some pundits were calling for an England call up), but with poorer players around him all of the the things he doesn't do so well, or does poorly, got highlighted. He's very much a player in the Carrick mould, though not as good obviously, and Carrick is/was much stronger in other areas of his game. But unless you're generally paying top dollar, you're not going to get players that are 'total footballers' that are strong in all areas and that's where the correct gelling of players with different, but complementary, attributes comes in. I think he could do well at Burnley, Dyche will know how to play him, and who to play him with, and ironically i think he's better suited to the more technical game of the premier league than the rough and tumble of the championship.
Doesn't deserve the stick he's been getting from a lot of the fans on here IMO, but do think it's the right move for him and us, and think he's been left a bit psychologically scarred by the events at Villa over the last 4 years or so.
Essentially then, to try and simplify that for you: Every player has strengths and weaknesses, a good manager will play that player in a team and system that utilises those strengths whilst negating those weaknesses. As a consequence, when playing in a team with the right balance of midfielders, as highlighted above, he was very effective as they highlighted his strengths and negated his weaknesses, he could essentially play the role he's good at. When played in a poor midfield that lacked.. well most things, and a poor overall team, he looked surprisingly... poor.
Yes he has to take part responsibility for his time here and where we are, but he can only go out and play in the team that's been picked in the role he's been asked to play, which to my mind he did, and did so conscientiously and as a model pro. For his attitude to the club and effort at the least, he deserves a bit of respect, especially given how may other players have shafted us in that same time period.
Obviously that's only one analysis though, and there are other well considered and reflective analysis that can be brought to light on the subject too such as:
He's a wanker!
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Thanks for the essay, but I know a shit footballer when I see one and Westwood falls into that category.
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My favourite part of this thread, is the title - WESTWOOD SOLD, for that reason alone its been a good window. Sold.
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My favourite part of this thread, is the title - WESTWOOD SOLD, for that reason alone its been a good window. Sold.
Hear hear!
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The best bit about the pitch tree planting story was the little Scots girl who said "we just dribble round them" which gets us perfectly back to Westwood.
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Why O Why has Aberdeenshire Council planted trees on public football pitches? Does the SFA have some sort of pitch dimensions (excluding trees) agenda? I blame Russon. The spokesperson on TV was wearing a claret and blue woolly hat.
Planting trees on a football pitch is criminal.
Someone should call the copse
Bring back the birch!
Leaf it alone, pal.
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Thanks for the essay, but I know a shit footballer when I see one and Westwood falls into that category.
Indeed, and may I add regardless of the pitch size, he'd find somewhere to go missing.
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Bull. He was shit from day one. I remember scratching my head in disbelief when seeing him in a pre-season game just after he signed wondering what the hell we were doing signing rubbish like him (and others). Even funnier was when the club PR machine tried to talk him up for an England place in his first few months here. The most ridiculous part was that so many fans fell for it. Now look at us!
Bull. When he was playing in the midfield with Delph alongside him he looked ok. Kept it simple, got the ball, moved it on to the more creative players in the team, did a job. When those better players moved on, he had more responsibility to affect games and be creative, his game isn't up to that which is why he has struggled badly for the last couple of seasons
So the best you can up with is that at times during his 5 years here he looked "okay" and occasionally "did a job".
Christ what a miss he'll be.
Your comments seem to display a distinct lack of perception about football, football players and how football teams are built... but from experience that doesn't surprise me. I'll requote for you what i wrote earlier in the thread about his leaving:
Good luck to him, as people say he's a nice guy who always tried his best, it's just his limitations were laid open for all to see by playing in some very poor squads with even poorer midfields.
A quick look at some of the player's analysis on various sites have his strong points listed as: short/long passing, agility, ball control, stamina, composure and vision, and to me that seems pretty accurate. What you get is a player that can sit in midfield, seeks to react, intercept, or contain and close down the ball when out of possession (rather than tackling), and when in possession keeps the midfield 'ticking over' with mainly short to medium length simple passes, and the odd long ball, to the right creative players, rather than runs and dribbling past opponents.
To me that's exactly what he did for us, and pretty well when he had the right players around him to create the correct balance in midfield at the start (so much so some pundits were calling for an England call up), but with poorer players around him all of the the things he doesn't do so well, or does poorly, got highlighted. He's very much a player in the Carrick mould, though not as good obviously, and Carrick is/was much stronger in other areas of his game. But unless you're generally paying top dollar, you're not going to get players that are 'total footballers' that are strong in all areas and that's where the correct gelling of players with different, but complementary, attributes comes in. I think he could do well at Burnley, Dyche will know how to play him, and who to play him with, and ironically i think he's better suited to the more technical game of the premier league than the rough and tumble of the championship.
Doesn't deserve the stick he's been getting from a lot of the fans on here IMO, but do think it's the right move for him and us, and think he's been left a bit psychologically scarred by the events at Villa over the last 4 years or so.
Essentially then, to try and simplify that for you: Every player has strengths and weaknesses, a good manager will play that player in a team and system that utilises those strengths whilst negating those weaknesses. As a consequence, when playing in a team with the right balance of midfielders, as highlighted above, he was very effective as they highlighted his strengths and negated his weaknesses, he could essentially play the role he's good at. When played in a poor midfield that lacked.. well most things, and a poor overall team, he looked surprisingly... poor.
Yes he has to take part responsibility for his time here and where we are, but he can only go out and play in the team that's been picked in the role he's been asked to play, which to my mind he did, and did so conscientiously and as a model pro. For his attitude to the club and effort at the least, he deserves a bit of respect, especially given how may other players have shafted us in that same time period.
Obviously that's only one analysis though, and there are other well considered and reflective analysis that can be brought to light on the subject too such as:
He's a wanker!
Good post, but I think we've got well past the point where people can be reasonable and considered about Westwood.
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You would stick up for him with that username.
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Ashley Westwood: Hide and Seek Grand Champion in his Primary and Secondary School years. On his leavers day having completed his GCSE's, he was given a lifetime achievement award for his skills at hide and seek. Unfortunately when it came to actually handing him the trophy they couldn't find the fucker.
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Well if they need to find him he's up at Burnley playing in the Premiership, a division our club is currently having great difficulty in finding.
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As long as he's massively out of his depth at somebody who isn't us, I can rest easy
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that's how I feel - Rudy's playing for another PL side, and that's even shadier shit
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Well if they need to find him he's up at Burnley playing in the Premiership, a division our club is currently having great difficulty in finding.
We may have still been there if we hadn't signed players as shit as Westwood.
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I do find it odd that of all the unprofessional and poorly behaved players, who have apparently no issue disrespecting the club, it's Westwood, who yes wasn't very good for us, that seems to be a lightening rod for the vitriol of some people. He wasn't good enough, but he never skipped off training or slagged off the club, I don't really have a big issue with him.
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I do find it odd that of all the unprofessional and poorly behaved players, who have apparently no issue disrespecting the club, it's Westwood, who yes wasn't very good for us, that seems to be a lightening rod for the vitriol of some people. He wasn't good enough, but he never skipped off training or slagged off the club, I don't really have a big issue with him.
He was the mainstay of the worst Villa midfield I've ever seen. The fact that he never skipped training really doesn't make up for it.
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Yeah. And we are doing much better since he left
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Yeah. And we are doing much better since he left
Oh that's it! The reason we're shit is because we let Westwood go!
Eureka!
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Yeah. And we are doing much better since he left
Oh that's it! The reason we're shit is because we let Westwood go!
Eureka!
We'd better not let Hutton leave then.
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We bought 3 players to replace Westwood and we appear to be even worse.
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I'm yet to be convinced that Lansbury is anything other than Westwood with a hairstyle, yet he seemed to be getting praise on the radio. It's amazing how much more positive people can see a player just because he's new.
There was a point on Tuesday where Lansbury had the ball passed back to him near the halfway line and he did a full turn and passed it back to Baker. I dread to think the abuse had Westwood done that.
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I'm yet to be convinced that Lansbury is anything other than Westwood with a hairstyle, yet he seemed to be getting praise on the radio. It's amazing how much more positive people can see a player just because he's new.
There was a point on Tuesday where Lansbury had the ball passed back to him near the halfway line and he did a full turn and passed it back to Baker. I dread to think the abuse had Westwood done that.
Sorry but that's massively wide of the mark. Of the January buys Lansbury is the only one vaguely looking like justifying why we bought him so far. His long range passing is a world ahead of anything Westwood will ever be capable of and he can actually put a tackle in, something I never saw Westwood do (successfully) in the four years or so we had him.
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If this thread ever gets locked or looks like falling from the top of the board, can I make a plea for it to be a sticky. Considering Westwood is a jobbing footballer, seemingly nice bloke, unspectacular and has a bland mediated persona, the emotion he attracts is astonishing. It's also a really good example of how blind hope can turn to hyperbolic bile.
Disclaimer: I like him. Model pro, decent footballer (you simply don't get a career in the pro ranks without being one), clearly cares about his job but sadly wasn't right for us and the job we needed. I reckon the only difference between him and Garry Parker is the club they found themselves in. In the blame list for our current position, he doesn't make my top 100.
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If this thread ever gets locked or looks like falling from the top of the board, can I make a plea for it to be a sticky. Considering Westwood is a jobbing footballer, seemingly nice bloke, unspectacular and has a bland mediated persona, the emotion he attracts is astonishing. It's also a really good example of how blind hope can turn to hyperbolic bile.
Disclaimer: I like him. Model pro, decent footballer (you simply don't get a career in the pro ranks without being one), clearly cares about his job but sadly wasn't right for us and the job we needed. I reckon the only difference between him and Garry Parker is the club they found themselves in. In the blame list for our current position, he doesn't make my top 100.
agreed 100%
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Well if they need to find him he's up at Burnley playing in the Premiership, a division our club is currently having great difficulty in finding.
We may have still been there if we hadn't signed a full squad of players as shit as Westwood.
Better
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We bought 3 players to replace Westwood and we appear to be even worse.
was my point
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If this thread ever gets locked or looks like falling from the top of the board, can I make a plea for it to be a sticky. Considering Westwood is a jobbing footballer, seemingly nice bloke, unspectacular and has a bland mediated persona, the emotion he attracts is astonishing. It's also a really good example of how blind hope can turn to hyperbolic bile.
Disclaimer: I like him. Model pro, decent footballer (you simply don't get a career in the pro ranks without being one), clearly cares about his job but sadly wasn't right for us and the job we needed. I reckon the only difference between him and Garry Parker is the club they found themselves in. In the blame list for our current position, he doesn't make my top 100.
Disagree. Parker was a better player than Westwood.
That said, I've always maintained that Westwood can only really play one specific role and that is the defensive midfielder in a three man midfield. He is lost in any other position.
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If this thread ever gets locked or looks like falling from the top of the board, can I make a plea for it to be a sticky. Considering Westwood is a jobbing footballer, seemingly nice bloke, unspectacular and has a bland mediated persona, the emotion he attracts is astonishing. It's also a really good example of how blind hope can turn to hyperbolic bile.
Disclaimer: I like him. Model pro, decent footballer (you simply don't get a career in the pro ranks without being one), clearly cares about his job but sadly wasn't right for us and the job we needed. I reckon the only difference between him and Garry Parker is the club they found themselves in. In the blame list for our current position, he doesn't make my top 100.
Disagree. Parker was a better player than Westwood.
That said, I've always maintained that Westwood can only really play one specific role and that is the defensive midfielder in a three man midfield. He is lost in any other position.
Parker had a decent shot too
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If this thread ever gets locked or looks like falling from the top of the board, can I make a plea for it to be a sticky. Considering Westwood is a jobbing footballer, seemingly nice bloke, unspectacular and has a bland mediated persona, the emotion he attracts is astonishing. It's also a really good example of how blind hope can turn to hyperbolic bile.
Disclaimer: I like him. Model pro, decent footballer (you simply don't get a career in the pro ranks without being one), clearly cares about his job but sadly wasn't right for us and the job we needed. I reckon the only difference between him and Garry Parker is the club they found themselves in. In the blame list for our current position, he doesn't make my top 100.
Westwood up there with Garry Parker? Ha ha!
If you honestly think that then you either never saw Parker in a Villa shirt or have been brainwashed. Honestly it's an insult to mention him in the same sentence.
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If this thread ever gets locked or looks like falling from the top of the board, can I make a plea for it to be a sticky. Considering Westwood is a jobbing footballer, seemingly nice bloke, unspectacular and has a bland mediated persona, the emotion he attracts is astonishing. It's also a really good example of how blind hope can turn to hyperbolic bile.
Disclaimer: I like him. Model pro, decent footballer (you simply don't get a career in the pro ranks without being one), clearly cares about his job but sadly wasn't right for us and the job we needed. I reckon the only difference between him and Garry Parker is the club they found themselves in. In the blame list for our current position, he doesn't make my top 100.
The only thing he has in common with Garry Parker is a lack of pace.
Parker was capable of some defence splitting passes and scored some cracking goals for us. He was a key player in the best team we had since 1982. Westwood was stand out shite in the most inept Villa side many of us will ever have the misfortune to witness.
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Yeah, I liked Gary Parker and Westwood has not contributed anything like he did for us.
That said, I am also of the view that Westwood is a reasonably decent player and do think in a better more balanced team he may do a very good job. I wouldn't be at all surprised he and Dyche have the last laugh.
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If this thread ever gets locked or looks like falling from the top of the board, can I make a plea for it to be a sticky. Considering Westwood is a jobbing footballer, seemingly nice bloke, unspectacular and has a bland mediated persona, the emotion he attracts is astonishing. It's also a really good example of how blind hope can turn to hyperbolic bile.
Disclaimer: I like him. Model pro, decent footballer (you simply don't get a career in the pro ranks without being one), clearly cares about his job but sadly wasn't right for us and the job we needed. I reckon the only difference between him and Garry Parker is the club they found themselves in. In the blame list for our current position, he doesn't make my top 100.
The only thing he has in common with Garry Parker is a lack of pace.
Parker was capable of some defence splitting passes and scored some cracking goals for us. He was a key player in the best team we had since 1982. Westwood was stand out shite in the most inept Villa side many of us will ever have the misfortune to witness.
Agreed.
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I do find it odd that of all the unprofessional and poorly behaved players, who have apparently no issue disrespecting the club, it's Westwood, who yes wasn't very good for us, that seems to be a lightening rod for the vitriol of some people. He wasn't good enough, but he never skipped off training or slagged off the club, I don't really have a big issue with him.
He was the mainstay of the worst Villa midfield I've ever seen. The fact that he never skipped training really doesn't make up for it.
That's about ability though, that doesn't mean he deserves personal abuse.
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As a player, he annoyed me as his lack of forward passes and bottle was poor. However as a person, he had passion and did try. He is also not an ego and a person who is simply a model pro who never did anything unexpected. My mates and me nicknamed him the hobbit. Good luck to him at Burnley and our scorn really deserves to be thrown at villa man lescott and Santa Richards. They are truly wasters as they had ability yet were lazy with it
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Thanks for the essay, but I know a shit footballer when I see one and Westwood falls into that category.
Really? I've seen little evidence in any of your thousands of posts that you know much about football at all, i know it's all the rage these days, but just making 'Trumpesque' statements that something is the case, doesn't make it so.
So you can spot a 'shit footballer' and a 'wanker' when you see one, i suppose you could test that theory by finding a mirror and reporting back...
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Thanks for the essay, but I know a shit footballer when I see one and Westwood falls into that category.
Really? I've seen little evidence in any of your thousands of posts that you know much about football at all, i know it's all the rage these days, but just making 'Trumpesque' statements that something is the case, doesn't make it so.
So you can spot a 'shit footballer' and a 'wanker' when you see one, i suppose you could test that theory by finding a mirror and reporting back...
That's uncalled for. I don't care what Westwood is like as a person and I've never slated him at games as it is counter productive and he doesn't deserve it, but, he definitely is a shit footballer for the leagues he's been playing in. Not average, not tidy, not wrong time or team or role. He's utter shite.
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Just to add my two penneth, Westwood was utterly shite, and I don't really care if he was a nice chap or not. He was the poster boy for our descent into nothingness. A nothing player, at a failing, once proud club.
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Thanks for the essay, but I know a shit footballer when I see one and Westwood falls into that category.
Really? I've seen little evidence in any of your thousands of posts that you know much about football at all, i know it's all the rage these days, but just making 'Trumpesque' statements that something is the case, doesn't make it so.
So you can spot a 'shit footballer' and a 'wanker' when you see one, i suppose you could test that theory by finding a mirror and reporting back...
Get you!
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Just to add my two penneth, Westwood was utterly shite, and I don't really care if he was a nice chap or not. He was the poster boy for our descent into nothingness. A nothing player, at a failing, once proud club.
Spot on. I couldn't give a shit if he was a "nice guy", he was absolutely abysmal as a player and I curse the day he ever turned up. In fact if we hadn't signed players as shit as he we may have still been in the PL right now. I remember well how many fans fell for the "Young and hungry" crap back when Lambert signed all those losers and you could see what was coming from a mile off.
What a rotten era for the Villa.
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Thanks for the essay, but I know a shit footballer when I see one and Westwood falls into that category.
Really? I've seen little evidence in any of your thousands of posts that you know much about football at all, i know it's all the rage these days, but just making 'Trumpesque' statements that something is the case, doesn't make it so.
So you can spot a 'shit footballer' and a 'wanker' when you see one, i suppose you could test that theory by finding a mirror and reporting back...
That's uncalled for. I don't care what Westwood is like as a person and I've never slated him at games as it is counter productive and he doesn't deserve it, but, he definitely is a shit footballer for the leagues he's been playing in. Not average, not tidy, not wrong time or team or role. He's utter shite.
But it's all irrelevant though because he's a lovely chap who's ever so nice!
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Thanks for the essay, but I know a shit footballer when I see one and Westwood falls into that category.
Really? I've seen little evidence in any of your thousands of posts that you know much about football at all, i know it's all the rage these days, but just making 'Trumpesque' statements that something is the case, doesn't make it so.
So you can spot a 'shit footballer' and a 'wanker' when you see one, i suppose you could test that theory by finding a mirror and reporting back...
That's uncalled for. I don't care what Westwood is like as a person and I've never slated him at games as it is counter productive and he doesn't deserve it, but, he definitely is a shit footballer for the leagues he's been playing in. Not average, not tidy, not wrong time or team or role. He's utter shite.
But it's all irrelevant though because he's a lovely chap who's ever so nice!
Do you think you might be spending a bit more time on this subject than might be considered normal and rational?
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Thanks for the essay, but I know a shit footballer when I see one and Westwood falls into that category.
Really? I've seen little evidence in any of your thousands of posts that you know much about football at all, i know it's all the rage these days, but just making 'Trumpesque' statements that something is the case, doesn't make it so.
So you can spot a 'shit footballer' and a 'wanker' when you see one, i suppose you could test that theory by finding a mirror and reporting back...
That's uncalled for. I don't care what Westwood is like as a person and I've never slated him at games as it is counter productive and he doesn't deserve it, but, he definitely is a shit footballer for the leagues he's been playing in. Not average, not tidy, not wrong time or team or role. He's utter shite.
But it's all irrelevant though because he's a lovely chap who's ever so nice!
Do you think you might be spending a bit more time on this subject than might be considered normal and rational?
There's 86 pages on here, Dave. It's not just me.
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No, but it's getting that way. I'd take a step back if I were you. Before you know it you'll have a wall full of pictures, an Ashley Westwood mask and be calling yourself his biggest fan.
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Super Garry Parker!
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No, but it's getting that way. I'd take a step back if I were you. Before you know it you'll have a wall full of pictures, an Ashley Westwood mask and be calling yourself his biggest fan.
Yeah I secretly love him.
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No, but it's getting that way. I'd take a step back if I were you. Before you know it you'll have a wall full of pictures, an Ashley Westwood mask and be calling yourself his biggest fan.
Yeah I secretly love him.
It's all coming out now Jed.
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No, but it's getting that way. I'd take a step back if I were you. Before you know it you'll have a wall full of pictures, an Ashley Westwood mask and be calling yourself his biggest fan.
Yeah I secretly love him.
It's all coming out now Jed.
He's coming to meet my brother-in-law.
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Another feather in his cap today
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Pretty anonymous performance form Westwood as Burnley lose at home to Lincoln in the FA Cup today. Pretty embarrassing for Burnley. Bit of pointing here and there but that was about it. How much did we get for him?
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Another feather in his cap today
Playing in claret and blue, failing to score or do anything useful, before an embarrassing defeat to lower league opposition in the cup. It'll be like slipping into a pair of comfy old slippers for him.
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There's a positive in this for Burnley, his experience of embarrassing defeats will be useful in the dressing room.
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He may have been on the team sheet but did he actually play along with another pile of crap John Flanagan he was awful
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He may have been on the team sheet but did he actually play along with another pile of crap John Flanagan he was awful
It's déjà vu all over again for Westy, bless his cotton socks.
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If this thread ever gets locked or looks like falling from the top of the board, can I make a plea for it to be a sticky. Considering Westwood is a jobbing footballer, seemingly nice bloke, unspectacular and has a bland mediated persona, the emotion he attracts is astonishing. It's also a really good example of how blind hope can turn to hyperbolic bile.
Disclaimer: I like him. Model pro, decent footballer (you simply don't get a career in the pro ranks without being one), clearly cares about his job but sadly wasn't right for us and the job we needed. I reckon the only difference between him and Garry Parker is the club they found themselves in. In the blame list for our current position, he doesn't make my top 100.
Westwood up there with Garry Parker? Ha ha!
If you honestly think that then you either never saw Parker in a Villa shirt or have been brainwashed. Honestly it's an insult to mention him in the same sentence.
I went to probably 75% of Parker's games for us. I didn't rate him, and that's the point. He was clearly a very good player and part of a side I couldn't get enough of seeing. But because I saw things in his game I didn't like, I had a skewed view of him. Ditto John Gregory as a player, and Ayew for that matter. It's clear there's a lot of people who are the same about Westwood, just multiplied several times over. Works the other way of course. I was very forgiving of Tony Daley's crosses.
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If this thread ever gets locked or looks like falling from the top of the board, can I make a plea for it to be a sticky. Considering Westwood is a jobbing footballer, seemingly nice bloke, unspectacular and has a bland mediated persona, the emotion he attracts is astonishing. It's also a really good example of how blind hope can turn to hyperbolic bile.
Disclaimer: I like him. Model pro, decent footballer (you simply don't get a career in the pro ranks without being one), clearly cares about his job but sadly wasn't right for us and the job we needed. I reckon the only difference between him and Garry Parker is the club they found themselves in. In the blame list for our current position, he doesn't make my top 100.
Westwood up there with Garry Parker? Ha ha!
If you honestly think that then you either never saw Parker in a Villa shirt or have been brainwashed. Honestly it's an insult to mention him in the same sentence.
I went to probably 75% of Parker's games for us. I didn't rate him, and that's the point. He was clearly a very good player and part of a side I couldn't get enough of seeing. But because I saw things in his game I didn't like, I had a skewed view of him. Ditto John Gregory as a player, and Ayew for that matter. It's clear there's a lot of people who are the same about Westwood, just multiplied several times over. Works the other way of course. I was very forgiving of Tony Daley's crosses.
Pointy is the very antithesis of Tony Daley. Every time Tony got the ball the crowd anticipated the possibility of something exciting.
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Speedy winger different to jobbing midfielder?
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Speedy winger different to jobbing midfielder?
I'd love to know what Terms of Reference Pointy was fulfilling.
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It's like a Trump press conference in here. You make a point about a turd being in the nose of the beholder and find yourself discussing the merits of roses. There's a link, but it's tenuous.
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Ashley Westwood being a decent footballer is fake news. So fake, really. The fakest news. Believe me.
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Super Garry Parker!
His goal away against Man Citeh that year was one of the goals of the season for me, yet it rarely gets mentioned.
Though he did have a fair bit of competition that year, in fairness.
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If this thread ever gets locked or looks like falling from the top of the board, can I make a plea for it to be a sticky. Considering Westwood is a jobbing footballer, seemingly nice bloke, unspectacular and has a bland mediated persona, the emotion he attracts is astonishing. It's also a really good example of how blind hope can turn to hyperbolic bile.
Disclaimer: I like him. Model pro, decent footballer (you simply don't get a career in the pro ranks without being one), clearly cares about his job but sadly wasn't right for us and the job we needed. I reckon the only difference between him and Garry Parker is the club they found themselves in. In the blame list for our current position, he doesn't make my top 100.
Westwood up there with Garry Parker? Ha ha!
If you honestly think that then you either never saw Parker in a Villa shirt or have been brainwashed. Honestly it's an insult to mention him in the same sentence.
I went to probably 75% of Parker's games for us. I didn't rate him, and that's the point. He was clearly a very good player and part of a side I couldn't get enough of seeing. But because I saw things in his game I didn't like, I had a skewed view of him. Ditto John Gregory as a player, and Ayew for that matter. It's clear there's a lot of people who are the same about Westwood, just multiplied several times over. Works the other way of course. I was very forgiving of Tony Daley's crosses.
I'd quit while I was miles behind if I was you.
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Oh and there's a video of Saint Ashley Nice Guy III spitting on an opposition player today doing the rounds.
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i'm glad i was sat down when i heard the comparison of Garry Parker and Ashley Westwood.
Westwood was a neat passer, which in 9.25 times out of 10 went back or square.
Parker switched play, saw a forward pass, and boy, could he bag!
Absolutely no contest (IMO of course)
Nick
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If this thread ever gets locked or looks like falling from the top of the board, can I make a plea for it to be a sticky. Considering Westwood is a jobbing footballer, seemingly nice bloke, unspectacular and has a bland mediated persona, the emotion he attracts is astonishing. It's also a really good example of how blind hope can turn to hyperbolic bile.
Disclaimer: I like him. Model pro, decent footballer (you simply don't get a career in the pro ranks without being one), clearly cares about his job but sadly wasn't right for us and the job we needed. I reckon the only difference between him and Garry Parker is the club they found themselves in. In the blame list for our current position, he doesn't make my top 100.
Westwood up there with Garry Parker? Ha ha!
If you honestly think that then you either never saw Parker in a Villa shirt or have been brainwashed. Honestly it's an insult to mention him in the same sentence.
I went to probably 75% of Parker's games for us. I didn't rate him, and that's the point. He was clearly a very good player and part of a side I couldn't get enough of seeing. But because I saw things in his game I didn't like, I had a skewed view of him. Ditto John Gregory as a player, and Ayew for that matter. It's clear there's a lot of people who are the same about Westwood, just multiplied several times over. Works the other way of course. I was very forgiving of Tony Daley's crosses.
I think your point is somewhat lost because your view of Parker would be very much a minority one. Whereas I think the view that Westwood was at best "meh" is very much a majority one.
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What I would say in defence of Simon is that outside of that purple patch in 1992/93, he didn't do a great deal either the season before or after (nice goal at home to Chelsea in 1991/92 aside).
But what a purple patch. In contrast, Westwood delivered five years of hearing aid beige.
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I came away from Bramal Lane after Parker's brace to find my car on bricks. Did I care? Westwood made me come away from VP wishing I had cataracts.
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One thing Garry Parker could do that Westwood can't is kick a football. But when it comes to doing that stampy thing a yard away from a player, occasionally raising one knee as though attempting a tackle as said player comfortably strides away with the ball, Westwood is admittedly world class.
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Parker never really got back into the team after Ron signed Townsend, which was a shame
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Think we all secretly love him as plenty of discussion of a now ex player going on. Wonder how long it will be until we admit we miss him....i reckon the same amount of time it takes to reach the edge of our solar system in the chuckle brothers peddle car
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If this thread ever gets locked or looks like falling from the top of the board, can I make a plea for it to be a sticky. Considering Westwood is a jobbing footballer, seemingly nice bloke, unspectacular and has a bland mediated persona, the emotion he attracts is astonishing. It's also a really good example of how blind hope can turn to hyperbolic bile.
Disclaimer: I like him. Model pro, decent footballer (you simply don't get a career in the pro ranks without being one), clearly cares about his job but sadly wasn't right for us and the job we needed. I reckon the only difference between him and Garry Parker is the club they found themselves in. In the blame list for our current position, he doesn't make my top 100.
Westwood up there with Garry Parker? Ha ha!
If you honestly think that then you either never saw Parker in a Villa shirt or have been brainwashed. Honestly it's an insult to mention him in the same sentence.
I went to probably 75% of Parker's games for us. I didn't rate him, and that's the point. He was clearly a very good player and part of a side I couldn't get enough of seeing. But because I saw things in his game I didn't like, I had a skewed view of him. Ditto John Gregory as a player, and Ayew for that matter. It's clear there's a lot of people who are the same about Westwood, just multiplied several times over. Works the other way of course. I was very forgiving of Tony Daley's crosses.
I'd quit while I was miles behind if I was you.
Like you never do?
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They had the Burnley game on the radio today. I listened in and wondered if Westwood was playing. For a clear 20 minutes his name wasn't mentioned once. I was beginning to think he'd been rested. Then the first mention he got was slicing a shot near the corner flag.
Shit player.
Comparisons to Garry Parker are ludicrous. The babbling, frothy lipped nonsense of total lunacy.
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If this thread ever gets locked or looks like falling from the top of the board, can I make a plea for it to be a sticky. Considering Westwood is a jobbing footballer, seemingly nice bloke, unspectacular and has a bland mediated persona, the emotion he attracts is astonishing. It's also a really good example of how blind hope can turn to hyperbolic bile.
Disclaimer: I like him. Model pro, decent footballer (you simply don't get a career in the pro ranks without being one), clearly cares about his job but sadly wasn't right for us and the job we needed. I reckon the only difference between him and Garry Parker is the club they found themselves in. In the blame list for our current position, he doesn't make my top 100.
Westwood up there with Garry Parker? Ha ha!
If you honestly think that then you either never saw Parker in a Villa shirt or have been brainwashed. Honestly it's an insult to mention him in the same sentence.
I went to probably 75% of Parker's games for us. I didn't rate him, and that's the point. He was clearly a very good player and part of a side I couldn't get enough of seeing. But because I saw things in his game I didn't like, I had a skewed view of him. Ditto John Gregory as a player, and Ayew for that matter. It's clear there's a lot of people who are the same about Westwood, just multiplied several times over. Works the other way of course. I was very forgiving of Tony Daley's crosses.
I'd quit while I was miles behind if I was you.
Like you never do?
I haven't just compared Parker to Westwood.
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You mean Garry Parker the "very good player"?
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Garry Parker was a superb passer of the the ball,zero pace,Westwood was just err..I forget.
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You mean Garry Parker the "very good player"?
Er, what? Actually don't worry about it, I'm sure Simon's a big enough lad to argue his own point, and I've got several boxes of crap to unpack.
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Garry Parker was so good he got an extra 'r' in his name. I don't see Westwood running around telling people his name is Asshley.
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I was never a fan of Garry Parker, never rated him at all. Slow and a bit of a fanny when we didn't have the ball.
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I was a big fan of Parker, great passer, good shot on him. He played well, Villa played well. Nothing like Westwood who was and is average at best.
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Gary Parker was on another level to Ashley Westwood, you can't have watched him if you think they are anyway comperable. Parker was a quality passer of the ball and could strike it very cleanly, cracking little player, if only for 12 months or so.
Westwood.....well......mehhhh.nothing.
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Parker had a face I wanted to punch though, irrationally. Good player for us. Unlike Westwood on both counts.
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Just watched the Burnley v Lincoln game, Westwood bumbled around like Charles Hawtrey on the periphery of everything and getting stuck in to nothing.
The suggestion that he is similar to Gary Parker is laughable. Parker was a good footballer for a start. Played a part in arguably our best side since 1982. Westwood, well we are where we are because of players like him.
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Parker looked like a guy you'd expect to see in the middle of Montana.
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He was a geyser.
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A very fine painter and decorator though.
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The 'o' is second from the right top row. The 'a' is first on the left second row.
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The only way pointy is similar to parker is the fact that they both have heads
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How long before Barton gives Westwood a right hook after a game....he seemed to be going after everyone else yesterday.
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How long before Barton gives Westwood a right hook after a game....he seemed to be going after everyone else yesterday.
I imagine they are chalk and cheese in the dressing room.
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Crap player, was here to long, set the standard that we have now reached well before we had reached it, he has gone now, we got 5 million for him, hahahahaha, good luck son, don't come back.
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That Disney song, "Let it go".
That's what we need to do here.
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A sad indictment of our club and support.
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A sad indictment of our club and support.
What is? Buying him? Thinking he had potential? Playing him for 4 years when he was utterly gash?
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Watching him yesterday he had the same look on his face as when he played for us, which seemed to be saying, what am I doing here, what should I do to fit in, when will someone notice that I don't belong here and tell me to sod off? Like the uncoolest kid in school sneaking around in the shadows at the school disco, hoping not to be noticed and just waiting and dreading the moment when he is spotted and mercilessly vilified.
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Watching him yesterday he had the same look on his face as when he played for us, which seemed to be saying, what am I doing here, what should I do to fit in, when will someone notice that I don't belong here and tell me to sod off? Like the uncoolest kid in school sneaking around in the shadows at the school disco, hoping not to be noticed and just waiting and dreading the moment when he is spotted and mercilessly vilified.
Paul McGrath is on record as thinking the same thing when he played.
Yes I am comparing them and I do think Westwood is better.
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That Disney song, "Let it go".
That's what we need to do here.
Agreed
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I'd quit while I was miles behind if I was you.
Only if I valued your judgement on a player any more than you value mine. Anyway, I want this to be 100 pages by the end of the month just to show how little he means to us.
My point (one for all you nicknamers out there) is I had an issue with Parker so his good tended to have a "but" attached and his not-so-good came with a "see". All bollocks of course, and I now accept he was in fact the epicentre of our almost successful 92/3 side and the man of the match in the 94 cup final where he dressed as Graham Fenton*.
On a similar note, it'd be interesting to know who thinks Ray Houghton was one-quarter of our great Irish contingent and who thinks he only ever moved sideways. The genius/bastard but nothing in between.
* Apologies for the exaggeration and willful misinterpretation which has no place in a thread such as this.
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Houghton was generally decent. His performance at home to Inter was one of the best Villa midfield displays I can recall. Tranmere at home too. Chipped in with the odd important goal too. More reliable than Parker but not as flashy - and don't get me wrong I loved Parker.
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I always felt that Houghton's good performances coincided with us being on the telly. When the world wasn't watching, he didn't seem to be so interested.
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I’ve always loved our Ashley. Apparently we are due another £1m thanks to an appearance clause we put in the contract that he’s now achieved. Every little helps.
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It seems we've been a bit cuter than usual with clauses from the purge of players under Xia.
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Yes.
A little bit behind our target of being the second or third biggest team in the world in three years.
But we are picking up a wee bit more money from scragends. So every cloud.
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Interesting read
For those fans who think hurling personal abuse at players doesn't affect them, read ASHLEY WESTWOOD'S words about when he fell into depression, struggling with the comments he was receiving from Villa fans...
“It was only when I joined Burnley that I realised how bad a place I was in,” said Westwood, “I’d keep it all inside, locked away, trying to show a hard face but my wife knew I was unhappy. We had a little group of us who’d have a drink after a game. I’d have a carafe of red wine but it’d end up being two bottles. I wouldn’t say I was turning into an alcoholic, but I was never really a player who’d drink. (Before) I’d never drink in the house, but now I didn’t want to go out. I’d get home after getting beat and didn’t want to be seen out because fans would turn on you and I’d end up drinking red wine at home. It was an instant release coming to Burnley.”
#AVFC
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The full article is in The Telegraph but you need to be signed up to see the whole article.
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I can see where he's coming from. I don't like the amount of personal vindictiveness on here for players who have a bad game or who we don't rate, but I always assumed it was the same on all fan forums. But the implication is that it's not the same at Burnley. It's easy to say 'don't read the comments if you're going to be affected by them' but we have to realise that just because they earn shedloads of money doesn't mean they don't have feelings and aren't vulnerable to this type of thing. Some of the comments about Engels were way over the mark on Sunday.
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I'd say there's been plenty of players who'd had things go too far at times, I know I've been guilty of it in the past. The one that bothers me more than most is the attitude towards Wesley. I get that some people don't see the value of him but the criticism was way out of line at times and I think it did affect him, in early December he looked like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders.
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I can see where he's coming from. I don't like the amount of personal vindictiveness on here for players who have a bad game or who we don't rate, but I always assumed it was the same on all fan forums. But the implication is that it's not the same at Burnley. It's easy to say 'don't read the comments if you're going to be affected by them' but we have to realise that just because they earn shedloads of money doesn't mean they don't have feelings and aren't vulnerable to this type of thing. Some of the comments about Engels were way over the mark on Sunday.
He doesn't mention anything about comments on forums whatsoever, he said he got stick from fans if he bumped into them on a night out.
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I thought Westwood looked handy as ‘continuity’ type player. He was never an all action Gerard type and that counted against him. You could see he lost confidence and he’s not the sort to score a screamer that could have changed the trajectory of his career at villa. Ultimately the move was good for all parties and I’m pleased he is doing well any Burnley as I never thought he deserved the vitriol he got here.
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In the past I have always been pretty highly rated at work but in my latest job I have had my first experience of trying to do it as well as I can whilst having managers who constantly tell me I am doing it wrong (& I mean constantly).
It’s gradually left me unable to think straight, not able to remember simple facts, procedures or tasks, unable to make a simple decision. In fact, from being really well thought of in my previous job which was similar, they have not only made me FEEL like I am no good at it, they have made me ACTUALLY no good at it.
Constant criticism does take your mental health apart, and your ability to be competent goes with it.
The truth is that this treatment of players robs us of talent.
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He was one of the few players who seemed to care when we got relegated.
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I guess you just need to compare the expectation levels at Burnley v what is being achieved there with the same scenarios when Westwood was at the Villa. We were in our worst spell in a long long time and he was a part of that. Glad he's in a better place all the same.
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Dire player.
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We are facing the same problem now, we don’t have the type of midfield player we need.
It was not his fault that he wasn’t that player and never will be.
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Always hard to know in these circumstances what came first, underlying low feelings and then bad performances or the bad performances which -when criticism inevitably came - brought low feelings.
The onus was on others to take him out of the firing line long before they did.
Glad he's enjoying his football again. At his best, he looked neat and tidy for us. He didn't display anything during his time at B6 that would make him a Player of the Year candidate for any topflight club.
Shows that players can develop at different rates. For a variety of different reasons.
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Westwood was/is a decent footballer, however, he was a victim of pretty much everything at the club being a horror show during his time.
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In the past I have always been pretty highly rated at work but in my latest job I have had my first experience of trying to do it as well as I can whilst having managers who constantly tell me I am doing it wrong (& I mean constantly).
It’s gradually left me unable to think straight, not able to remember simple facts, procedures or tasks, unable to make a simple decision. In fact, from being really well thought of in my previous job which was similar, they have not only made me FEEL like I am no good at it, they have made me ACTUALLY no good at it.
Constant criticism does take your mental health apart, and your ability to be competent goes with it.
The truth is that this treatment of players robs us of talent.
I sympathise with you there Amfy as I had a similar experience about 12-13 years ago. I was working in a joint venture and had 2 bosses, one of whom was very political and did everything to make a landgrab for more than 50% of the team, with me somewhere in the middle.
Basically it got to the point where everything I did I was double and treble thinking and no longer trusting my own judgment. I disliked the company anyway so was able to leave within 8 months of joining, but for a while i was plain miserable, even at weekends.
I hope you manage to sort this out. When I left I was out of work for a while but much happier, though I appreciate you may not have the luxury of being able to douse your boss in pigshit and resigning.
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Dire player.
Makes you wonder how the numerous managers who really rate him get work in football and you don't. Thank Christ there was no shortage of similar geniuses to tell him how shite he was. I look forward to the fraud charges against him for continuing to fool the Premier League.
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In the past I have always been pretty highly rated at work but in my latest job I have had my first experience of trying to do it as well as I can whilst having managers who constantly tell me I am doing it wrong (& I mean constantly).
It’s gradually left me unable to think straight, not able to remember simple facts, procedures or tasks, unable to make a simple decision. In fact, from being really well thought of in my previous job which was similar, they have not only made me FEEL like I am no good at it, they have made me ACTUALLY no good at it.
Constant criticism does take your mental health apart, and your ability to be competent goes with it.
The truth is that this treatment of players robs us of talent.
I sympathise with you there Amfy as I had a similar experience about 12-13 years ago. I was working in a joint venture and had 2 bosses, one of whom was very political and did everything to make a landgrab for more than 50% of the team, with me somewhere in the middle.
Basically it got to the point where everything I did I was double and treble thinking and no longer trusting my own judgment. I disliked the company anyway so was able to leave within 8 months of joining, but for a while i was plain miserable, even at weekends.
I hope you manage to sort this out. When I left I was out of work for a while but much happier, though I appreciate you may not have the luxury of being able to douse your boss in pigshit and resigning.
Yep - the detail of it belongs in the mental health thread but its just an experience that has really made me think about what it must feel like when the fans are on your back out there on the pitch. I’ve always been someone who thinks the abuse doesn’t help to bring out the best in players, but my recent personal experience of it has really made me feel the true impact of what that must be like for them.
I’ve taken a month of sick and have decided to resign. I am fortunate at this point in my life to be able to do so even if there is a gap before I find something else. It’ll have been about 8 months for me too!
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Dire player.
Makes you wonder how the numerous managers who really rate him get work in football and you don't. Thank Christ there was no shortage of similar geniuses to tell him how shite he was. I look forward to the fraud charges against him for continuing to fool the Premier League.
He's played for the worst Villa side in our history and Burnley, who if you've drunk enough and squint hard enough almost look like a football team.
I watched/suffered every single game Westwood ever played for us. 147 times.
He scored a lovely goal at the Stripey Filth. Which was nice. But it didn't make up for his lack of goals, lack of creativity, inability to pass a ball forwards (Norwich away for Gabby aside), beat a man, have any pace, any strength, aerial ability. He was good at pointing though.
So thank you for your reply and the bizarre attempt to defend a dire player like Westwood. Nice attempt at sarcasm, though.
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So thank you for your utterly reply and the bizarre attempt to defend a dire player like Westwood. Nice attempt at sarcasm, though.
Nice attempt at English. Poor attempt at self-awareness.
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Dire player.
Makes you wonder how the numerous managers who really rate him get work in football and you don't. Thank Christ there was no shortage of similar geniuses to tell him how shite he was. I look forward to the fraud charges against him for continuing to fool the Premier League.
He's played for the worst Villa side in our history and Burnley, who if you've drunk enough and squint hard enough almost look like a football team.
I watched/suffered every single game Westwood ever played for us. 147 times.
He scored a lovely goal at the Stripey Filth. Which was nice. But it didn't make up for his lack of goals, lack of creativity, inability to pass a ball forwards (Norwich away for Gabby aside), beat a man, have any pace, any strength, aerial ability. He was good at pointing though.
So thank you for your utterly reply and the bizarre attempt to defend a dire player like Westwood. Nice attempt at sarcasm, though.
I know that’s your opinion, Ads, but I don’t think he was that bad a player.
I had him as a 6.5 - 7 out of 10 type of player. Nothing spectacular, but, nothing disastrous either.
I’d liken him to Butch Wilkins. Nothing special, but always available for the ball and a nice easy pass to the ones that can make it happen.
At the time we weren’t a very good team and I think a lot of players just didn’t complement each other.
Of course, this is just my opinion 👍
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In the past I have always been pretty highly rated at work but in my latest job I have had my first experience of trying to do it as well as I can whilst having managers who constantly tell me I am doing it wrong (& I mean constantly).
It’s gradually left me unable to think straight, not able to remember simple facts, procedures or tasks, unable to make a simple decision. In fact, from being really well thought of in my previous job which was similar, they have not only made me FEEL like I am no good at it, they have made me ACTUALLY no good at it.
Constant criticism does take your mental health apart, and your ability to be competent goes with it.
The truth is that this treatment of players robs us of talent.
I sympathise with you there Amfy as I had a similar experience about 12-13 years ago. I was working in a joint venture and had 2 bosses, one of whom was very political and did everything to make a landgrab for more than 50% of the team, with me somewhere in the middle.
Basically it got to the point where everything I did I was double and treble thinking and no longer trusting my own judgment. I disliked the company anyway so was able to leave within 8 months of joining, but for a while i was plain miserable, even at weekends.
I hope you manage to sort this out. When I left I was out of work for a while but much happier, though I appreciate you may not have the luxury of being able to douse your boss in pigshit and resigning.
In over a decade in the betting industry I managed a big, busy and highly profitable betting shop, was assistant to various district managers regarding interviewing, staffing rotas and disciplining, was on the staff council and also worked on racecourses for the company. I was the person the area manager for the whole of the Midlands asked to deal with the local press regarding the foot and mouth outbreak and it's repercussions for the company. I got on very well with most of my district managers (the person I answered directly to) and reasonably well with a couple of others. My last district manager was the guy who employed me in the first place as a trainee cashier and who had returned to the same patch. Instead of appreciating me and the pressure I took off him as his predecessors had he seemed to resent how important the 'trainee' had become. He waged a snidy campaign over a period of months which made my working life a misery. Eventually after him giving me no support whatsoever after a violent armed robbery in which I was assaulted I went on the sick for the maximum time I could of six months and then quit.
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So thank you for your utterly reply and the bizarre attempt to defend a dire player like Westwood. Nice attempt at sarcasm, though.
Nice attempt at English. Poor attempt at self-awareness.
How many times did you watch him?
Does anybody else have anything they can draw from the memory bank beyond the goal at the Albion or the through ball at Carrow Road?
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Dire player.
Makes you wonder how the numerous managers who really rate him get work in football and you don't. Thank Christ there was no shortage of similar geniuses to tell him how shite he was. I look forward to the fraud charges against him for continuing to fool the Premier League.
He's played for the worst Villa side in our history and Burnley, who if you've drunk enough and squint hard enough almost look like a football team.
I watched/suffered every single game Westwood ever played for us. 147 times.
He scored a lovely goal at the Stripey Filth. Which was nice. But it didn't make up for his lack of goals, lack of creativity, inability to pass a ball forwards (Norwich away for Gabby aside), beat a man, have any pace, any strength, aerial ability. He was good at pointing though.
So thank you for your reply and the bizarre attempt to defend a dire player like Westwood. Nice attempt at sarcasm, though.
Agreed. He was fuckin shit. Having a player as dreadful as he was playing so many games summed us up as a club during that awful period in our history.
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Nigel, I found myself just laughing at his inability to be good at anything but pointing. Man City away, pissing it down (just for a change) getting drummed and there he is, pointing and there I was, laughing. When dross like that has played the thick end of 150 games for us, was it any surprise we were absolutely shit for several years.
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I still have nightmares of those shitty floaty corners he kept throwing at us. Wanker.
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Jesus man. In a discussion about the mental health implications of people constantly having a go in an over the top, unnecessary fashion, this is what you choose to add. It's not an act is it? You really are the way you come across.
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Jesus man. In a discussion about the mental health implications of people constantly having a go in an over the top, unnecessary fashion, this is what you choose to add. It's not an act is it? You really are the way you come across.
I said he's dross, because he was. I saw every single minute he ever played for us, live. I think I'm entitled to form an opinion that he was shit.
You're the one whose flounced on trying to have a pop at me, with a post oozing with sarcasm and vacant of any substance worthy of defending him beyond the utterly vapid "well this manager can't be wrong". You've then followed with another pop. *shrugs*
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In any other period of our history a player as shit as he would have been found out after 10 or so games and shown the door. The fact that he played well over 100 league games for us tells us everything regarding the state of the club in that period. A total mad house.
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Absolutely. 4th division rubbish, but he was cheap which suited Lerner after he just gave up trying. A terrible player.
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Dire player.
Makes you wonder how the numerous managers who really rate him get work in football and you don't. Thank Christ there was no shortage of similar geniuses to tell him how shite he was. I look forward to the fraud charges against him for continuing to fool the Premier League.
He's played for the worst Villa side in our history and Burnley, who if you've drunk enough and squint hard enough almost look like a football team.
I watched/suffered every single game Westwood ever played for us. 147 times.
He scored a lovely goal at the Stripey Filth. Which was nice. But it didn't make up for his lack of goals, lack of creativity, inability to pass a ball forwards (Norwich away for Gabby aside), beat a man, have any pace, any strength, aerial ability. He was good at pointing though.
So thank you for your reply and the bizarre attempt to defend a dire player like Westwood. Nice attempt at sarcasm, though.
Agreed. He was fuckin shit. Having a player as dreadful as he was playing so many games summed us up as a club during that awful period in our history.
Far better players than Westwood sunk without trace at the club at the time. Some of them are regulars at champions league clubs now. It points to a far bigger problem than a crap coach or two. The culture of the club was obviously rotten to the core at the time.
I was at Cardiff for what I think was one of Westwood's last games for the club. He started in the middle with Gary Gardner and they were both hooked at half time. I doubt either played much for us again, Tishbola actually came on and was decent the same day. Bruce signed the likes of Hourihane and Lansbury a week or two later. The club was as close to a rock bottom low as possible then.
Westwood has done very well to turn his career around to be holding his own in the top division at Burnley since. No world beater for sure but he saw off Drinkys challenge for his place easily. Seems a lot more abrasive and confident these days. Fair play to him. He had potential but just got lost in the Villa Park vortex.
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Absolutely. 4th division rubbish, but he was cheap which suited Lerner after he just gave up trying. A terrible player.
And this is the problem with your assessment. I've seen plenty at the Villa who I don't rate, including but by no means limited to or bookended by Westwood. But when you denigrate him, beyond all logic and evidence, as "4th division rubbish" when he clearly, demonstrably isn't, you show yourself to be less an objective critic ("I said he's dross, because he was") and just someone with a ridiculously, comically, unjustified high opinion of your own brilliance.
Normally that would be the norm for a football forum. To do it in the context of Westwood and other posters talking about the effect of such hyperbolic, bile-spouting criticism lies somewhere between spiteful and attention-seeking.
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Absolutely. 4th division rubbish, but he was cheap which suited Lerner after he just gave up trying. A terrible player.
And this is the problem with your assessment. I've seen plenty at the Villa who I don't rate, including but by no means limited to or bookended by Westwood. But when you denigrate him, beyond all logic and evidence, as "4th division rubbish" when he clearly, demonstrably isn't, you show yourself to be less an objective critic ("I said he's dross, because he was") and just someone with a ridiculously, comically, unjustified high opinion of your own brilliance.
"Clearly, demonstrably isn't 4th division " is not objective, though, it is subjective, and that is all it ever can be. Footballers can be judged by hundreds of criteria or combinations of, and each of us will rate varying criteria differently. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Arguing about footballers accounts for probably 80% of the posts on this site.
What I don't agree with is people giving players shit when they're out and about / living their life off the pitch. That's way over the top, and much as I think the likes of Westwood and NRC were crap for us, I'd never have been anything less than unfailingly polite had I encountered them 'in the wild'. I also never feel the need to scream obscenities at them during a match, either, for that matter. I'll never like that.
I'd also add that, whilst I disagree with Ads far more often than I agree, in saying things like this:
you show yourself to be less an objective critic ("I said he's dross, because he was") and just someone with a ridiculously, comically, unjustified high opinion of your own brilliance.
you're doing exactly the same thing you are accusing him of.
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You came on bounce with the ridiculous grasping to authority. Presumably nobody can criticise Drinkwater because he's won the league or because a Premier League manager once thought he was good enough?
I hold a strong opinion about Westwood. For me he was the poster boy of our decline. From his first touch hoofing the ball clear at home to Swansea late on to his last, his moments of quality (there were two) were fleeting. Signed from the 4th division, it's where I wish he'd stayed. I've already listed the qualities he lacked; pace, ability to beat a player, play the ball forwards, tackle, strength, goals, creativity. What did he do? What did you see that I did not?
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In the past I have always been pretty highly rated at work but in my latest job I have had my first experience of trying to do it as well as I can whilst having managers who constantly tell me I am doing it wrong (& I mean constantly).
It’s gradually left me unable to think straight, not able to remember simple facts, procedures or tasks, unable to make a simple decision. In fact, from being really well thought of in my previous job which was similar, they have not only made me FEEL like I am no good at it, they have made me ACTUALLY no good at it.
Constant criticism does take your mental health apart, and your ability to be competent goes with it.
The truth is that this treatment of players robs us of talent.
I sympathise with you there Amfy as I had a similar experience about 12-13 years ago. I was working in a joint venture and had 2 bosses, one of whom was very political and did everything to make a landgrab for more than 50% of the team, with me somewhere in the middle.
Basically it got to the point where everything I did I was double and treble thinking and no longer trusting my own judgment. I disliked the company anyway so was able to leave within 8 months of joining, but for a while i was plain miserable, even at weekends.
I hope you manage to sort this out. When I left I was out of work for a while but much happier, though I appreciate you may not have the luxury of being able to douse your boss in pigshit and resigning.
Yep - the detail of it belongs in the mental health thread but its just an experience that has really made me think about what it must feel like when the fans are on your back out there on the pitch. I’ve always been someone who thinks the abuse doesn’t help to bring out the best in players, but my recent personal experience of it has really made me feel the true impact of what that must be like for them.
I’ve taken a month of sick and have decided to resign. I am fortunate at this point in my life to be able to do so even if there is a gap before I find something else. It’ll have been about 8 months for me too!
Good luck and well done on taking action.I hope you feel a weight off your shoulders now.
I can only imagine how shit it must be for somebody who couldn’t afford to get out like I did.
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"Clearly, demonstrably isn't 4th division " is not objective, though, it is subjective, and that is all it ever can be. Footballers can be judged by hundreds of criteria or combinations of, and each of us will rate varying criteria differently. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Arguing about footballers accounts for probably 80% of the posts on this site.
What I don't agree with is people giving players shit when they're out and about / living their life off the pitch. That's way over the top, and much as I think the likes of Westwood and NRC were crap for us, I'd never have been anything less than unfailingly polite had I encountered them 'in the wild'. I also never feel the need to scream obscenities at them during a match, either, for that matter. I'll never like that.
I'd also add that, whilst I disagree with Ads far more often than I agree, in saying things like this:
you show yourself to be less an objective critic ("I said he's dross, because he was") and just someone with a ridiculously, comically, unjustified high opinion of your own brilliance.
you're doing exactly the same thing you are accusing him of.
Sorry but no, I can't agree with the bold bit. There is an obvious objective measurement of the standard someone is capable of playing at and it's appearances. Ignoring that and applying any other measurement is being subjective, and is generally because "I don't care what the stats say my opinion is ...". That's not necessarily wrong though.
Westwood has played nearly twice as many premier league games as he has 4th division games, that alone is all the evidence you need to show that he's demonstrably not 4th division rubbish. He's an average player who looks at home in a bottom half of the prem team. It's also true that for his last 18months with us he looked like a player who was terrified of making mistakes and was crippled by that fear, I've only seen Burnley play a handful of times but he's been an important part of what they've done in that time.
On topic I agree with Nigel, he's 6-7 out of 10 player who does the simple things well and is more appreciated by teammates/managers than he is by fans. I also think calling him a wanker (in particular) in response to him saying his treatment by fans led to him suffering from depression is particularly crass, I have less issue with people calling him a poor player, I just don't really see the need for it, and the 'poster boy of our decline' thing is just a bit OTT.
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Who called him a wanker and what did he ever do to reach the dizzying heights of 6 out of 10? I asked Simon, but no dice.
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"Clearly, demonstrably isn't 4th division " is not objective, though, it is subjective, and that is all it ever can be. Footballers can be judged by hundreds of criteria or combinations of, and each of us will rate varying criteria differently. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Arguing about footballers accounts for probably 80% of the posts on this site.
What I don't agree with is people giving players shit when they're out and about / living their life off the pitch. That's way over the top, and much as I think the likes of Westwood and NRC were crap for us, I'd never have been anything less than unfailingly polite had I encountered them 'in the wild'. I also never feel the need to scream obscenities at them during a match, either, for that matter. I'll never like that.
I'd also add that, whilst I disagree with Ads far more often than I agree, in saying things like this:
you show yourself to be less an objective critic ("I said he's dross, because he was") and just someone with a ridiculously, comically, unjustified high opinion of your own brilliance.
you're doing exactly the same thing you are accusing him of.
Sorry but no, I can't agree with the bold bit. There is an obvious objective measurement of the standard someone is capable of playing at and it's appearances. Ignoring that and applying any other measurement is being subjective, and is generally because "I don't care what the stats say my opinion is ...". That's not necessarily wrong though.
But that's totally wrong - number of appearances is also a subjective measure. Just because you think it's the case does not make it true - ultimately it will come down to whether the person in question thinks it is true or not - subjectivity.
In my terms of evaluation, number of appearances means nothing. Which is exactly the point i was trying to make - to me it does, to you it doesn't. Therefore it is entirely subjective.
I genuinely don't give much of a shit this way or that about Westwood. I didn't think he was very good for us, but then again, that's what I thought of almost all of our players at that time. But that's just my opinion.
I just get annoyed by people deciding they've got the truth about what makes a good player or not.
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In the past I have always been pretty highly rated at work but in my latest job I have had my first experience of trying to do it as well as I can whilst having managers who constantly tell me I am doing it wrong (& I mean constantly).
It’s gradually left me unable to think straight, not able to remember simple facts, procedures or tasks, unable to make a simple decision. In fact, from being really well thought of in my previous job which was similar, they have not only made me FEEL like I am no good at it, they have made me ACTUALLY no good at it.
Constant criticism does take your mental health apart, and your ability to be competent goes with it.
The truth is that this treatment of players robs us of talent.
I sympathise with you there Amfy as I had a similar experience about 12-13 years ago. I was working in a joint venture and had 2 bosses, one of whom was very political and did everything to make a landgrab for more than 50% of the team, with me somewhere in the middle.
Basically it got to the point where everything I did I was double and treble thinking and no longer trusting my own judgment. I disliked the company anyway so was able to leave within 8 months of joining, but for a while i was plain miserable, even at weekends.
I hope you manage to sort this out. When I left I was out of work for a while but much happier, though I appreciate you may not have the luxury of being able to douse your boss in pigshit and resigning.
Yep - the detail of it belongs in the mental health thread but its just an experience that has really made me think about what it must feel like when the fans are on your back out there on the pitch. I’ve always been someone who thinks the abuse doesn’t help to bring out the best in players, but my recent personal experience of it has really made me feel the true impact of what that must be like for them.
I’ve taken a month of sick and have decided to resign. I am fortunate at this point in my life to be able to do so even if there is a gap before I find something else. It’ll have been about 8 months for me too!
Good luck and well done on taking action.I hope you feel a weight off your shoulders now.
I can only imagine how shit it must be for somebody who couldn’t afford to get out like I did.
it’s a tactic they do to keep you compliant. I’ve had it before also, but you only realise it when you leave. Wiser now.
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But that's totally wrong - number of appearances is also a subjective measure. Just because you think it's the case does not make it true - ultimately it will come down to whether the person in question thinks it is true or not - subjectivity.
In my terms of evaluation, number of appearances means nothing. Which is exactly the point i was trying to make - to me it does, to you it doesn't. Therefore it is entirely subjective.
I genuinely don't give much of a shit this way or that about Westwood. I didn't think he was very good for us, but then again, that's what I thought of almost all of our players at that time. But that's just my opinion.
I just get annoyed by people deciding they've got the truth about what makes a good player or not.
When Westwood writes an auto-biography he will, legitimately, list himself as a premier league player with well over 200 appearances at that level, that's not subjective, it's recorded fact. You're confusing whether those appearances are warranted or not and I do agree that is subjective, but I never touched on that other than to say that doing so is not necessarily wrong.
I'm not trying to decide the truth, I'm just pointing out that calling him '4th division rubbish' is ignoring the clear evidence that he's not that at all.
Who called him a wanker and what did he ever do to reach the dizzying heights of 6 out of 10? I asked Simon, but no dice.
I still have nightmares of those shitty floaty corners he kept throwing at us. Wanker.
As I said, This is crass and completely unnecessary in the context of the discussion.
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Haven't read the thread (at least not for a few years) but the idea that he wasn't needlessly scapegoated by Villa fans is mental, in my opinion.
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Wasn't as bad as remembered in his first two seasons. Had a fantastic semi final game v Liverpool for instance.
Really missed Delph's energy when he left though.
Done well at Burnley, better than I thought actually.
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There would be more pictures in his autobigoraphy than Tim Lovejoys.
"Appearence 125 for Villa. Did some quality pointing. Here is me pointing at a bang average Southampton player, ghosting by me."
Westwood was dross, he just happens to have stuck around from beginning to end of a very dark period, where as other dross like KEA, Bennett et al fluttered away into the "oh yeah, forgot he played for us" section of your cerebral cortex. Memories filed and hidden next to seeing your parents being affectionate and crashing and burning with that girl that one time. You know, the shudder memories.
Ergo he is the poster boy. Veretout is the what might have been if... Benteke was the island of hope...Gabby was the fat reminder of what once was...Bennett was the "fucking why god? Why do you hate us?!" and Westwood was the poster boy, the utter acceptance that we were a turd and that our flushing was inevitable.
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To be clear I never particularly rated him, mostly because I didn't think that type of player was what we needed for the obvious relegation battles we were going to be in, but I also never thought he was as bad as the match threads on here suggested either. However, I suspect he's the sort of player that his teammates and manager have loads of good things to say about - like this - https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18059612.burnley-duo-unsung-heroes-boss-sean-dyche/ (https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18059612.burnley-duo-unsung-heroes-boss-sean-dyche/)
I guess I just don't like seeing our owns players abused to the level that he, and others since, have faced simply for not meeting the expectations of some fans. Abusing people who never looked like they gave a fuck about the club in any way is different (but I personally still try avoid it) but players who are clearly trying and just aren't as good as we want them to be really shouldn't be given the amount of personal stick they are.
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Back in topic. He want that good, I didn’t think
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I still have nightmares of those shitty floaty corners he kept throwing at us. Wanker.
I didn't rate the bloke either and I'm amazed we got as much money for him as we did, but why would anyone feel the need to call a player a wanker because took a crap corner? It's totally unnecessary.
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Far better players than Westwood sunk without trace at the club at the time. Some of them are regulars at champions league clubs now. It points to a far bigger problem than a crap coach or two. The culture of the club was obviously rotten to the core at the time.
I was at Cardiff for what I think was one of Westwood's last games for the club. He started in the middle with Gary Gardner and they were both hooked at half time. I doubt either played much for us again, Tishbola actually came on and was decent the same day. Bruce signed the likes of Hourihane and Lansbury a week or two later. The club was as close to a rock bottom low as possible then.
Westwood has done very well to turn his career around to be holding his own in the top division at Burnley since. No world beater for sure but he saw off Drinkys challenge for his place easily. Seems a lot more abrasive and confident these days. Fair play to him. He had potential but just got lost in the Villa Park vortex.
This is a more balanced / charitable view.
Worryingly, Bruce saw Lansbury as a viable alternative.
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It's interesting to note that in calling Westwood the "poster boy" of our relegation season no mention is made of the likes of richards, lescott, nzogbia, bacuna, richardson and guzan. Along with gabby these were the real poster boys that season.
On the subjects of Ashley and Soton who we play today, it seems Westwood enjoys playing the team from the south coast. He scored from a corner against them only a couple of weeks ago and I'm sure he scored a couple against them at VP in our relegation season in a 4-2 defeat (the game bacuna put in a 50 yard back pass resulting in a goal for them).
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I still have nightmares of those shitty floaty corners he kept throwing at us. Wanker.
I didn't rate the bloke either and I'm amazed we got as much money for him as we did, but why would anyone feel the need to call a player a wanker because took a crap corner? It's totally unnecessary.
Yup agreed. Also I suspect those corners were very much a tactical request.
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I wish him no ill will, but he was rubbish.
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Laughed at my Burnley supporting mate when they signed him, telling him what a waste of space Westwood was and thanking him for taking him off our hands. Didn't take long for him to come back and thank me for Westwood, claiming he's a cracking player. By all accounts he's done well at Burnley much to the surprise I imagine of everybody at Villa Park.
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Part of it may be that expectations are lower at Burnley.
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I wish him no ill will, but he was rubbish.
Likewise.
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I never rated him but I don't hate players when they are trying their best. Not sure why some fans feel the need to be hysterical all the time, and I never get why people think getting on players' backs is going to help. He seems to have done better there. Probably a combination of better coaching, lower expectations/less pressure and perhaps an improvement in his mental health/confidence. Which may be associated with not having idiots like SH call him a "wanker" if he fails to score a hat-trick every week.
FWIW, I'm not saying no players ever deserve criticism. But I save my main ire for those who have ability but don't try. Agbonlahor, Ireland and N'Zogbia, for instance.
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I never rated him but I don't hate players when they are trying their best. Not sure why some fans feel the need to be hysterical all the time, and I never get why people think getting on players' backs is going to help. He seems to have done better there. Probably a combination of better coaching, lower expectations/less pressure and perhaps an improvement in his mental health/confidence. Which may be associated to not having idiots like SH call him a "wanker" if he fails to score a hat-trick every week.
FWIW, I'm not saying no players ever deserve criticism. But I save my main ire for those who have ability but don't try. Agbonlahor, Ireland and N'Zogbia, for instance.
Amen brother.
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Laughed at my Burnley supporting mate when they signed him, telling him what a waste of space Westwood was and thanking him for taking him off our hands. Didn't take long for him to come back and thank me for Westwood, claiming he's a cracking player. By all accounts he's done well at Burnley much to the surprise I imagine of everybody at Villa Park.
I follow the BBC news presenter Christian Fraser on Twitter who's a Burnley fan and he said he really rates him, described him as a tidy player.
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Wasn't as bad as remembered in his first two seasons. Had a fantastic semi final game v Liverpool for instance.
Really missed Delph's energy when he left though.
Done well at Burnley, better than I thought actually.
I think it is fair to acknowledge that he had a couple of decent periods in his time with us - the run-in during Lambert's first season when he played in a three with Sylla and Delph, and the run-up to and including the semi-final under Sherwood when he again played in a three with Delph and Cleverley.
I've not seen much of him at a Burnley, but always felt during his time with us that he needed to play in a holding role alongside two energetic midfielders. During the two periods mentioned above, we were playing well as a side and were on the front foot in games. For the long periods during his time at the club when that wasn't the case and we were very much second best in games, his lack of athleticism and physicality were exposed. The analogy that comes to mind is a fly-half in rugby who looks great when the forwards are on top and they are getting good, quick ball, but looks completely different when their side is on the back foot and they are called upon to do the more physical aspects of the game.
I was surprised when a top flight club came in for him, but it sounds like has done OK there. Never really seemed to have a bad attitude unlike a number of the charlatans who were at the club at the time, so wish him well really.
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Part of it may be that expectations are lower at Burnley.
They've not only pretty comfortably stayed in the PL whilst we spend 3 seasons in the Championship, finishing 7th the season before last, they also play in Europe and are chasing a European place again this season. I could live with those expectations right now.
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“He was a tidy player”, If that isn’t damning with faint praise I don’t know what is. He’s just a bit meh really, carved himself a career as a Premier League journeyman midfielder and Fair play to him in my view. He’s never going to tear up trees but he’s not that type of player. Always found out by athletic and physical attacking midfielders and forwards.
He certainly wasn’t the poster boy for our decline, step forward one G Agbonlahor.
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I never rated him but I don't hate players when they are trying their best. Not sure why some fans feel the need to be hysterical all the time, and I never get why people think getting on players' backs is going to help. He seems to have done better there. Probably a combination of better coaching, lower expectations/less pressure and perhaps an improvement in his mental health/confidence. Which may be associated with not having idiots like SH call him a "wanker" if he fails to score a hat-trick every week.
FWIW, I'm not saying no players ever deserve criticism. But I save my main ire for those who have ability but don't try. Agbonlahor, Ireland and N'Zogbia, for instance.
Cant believe I`m agreeing with you buddy :) But your comments are spot on …. some of the vitriolic diatribe from some posters on here is preposterous.
Likewise, the view from Rudy is also right on the button …...I`d settle for Burnley's expectations too
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I still have nightmares of those shitty floaty corners he kept throwing at us. Wanker.
I didn't rate the bloke either and I'm amazed we got as much money for him as we did, but why would anyone feel the need to call a player a wanker because took a crap corner? It's totally unnecessary.
Yup agreed. Also I suspect those corners were very much a tactical request.
They were. Benteke was invariably the best aerial player on the pitch regardless of the opposition and preferred floatier corners.
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i
I still have nightmares of those shitty floaty corners he kept throwing at us. Wanker.
I didn't rate the bloke either and I'm amazed we got as much money for him as we did, but why would anyone feel the need to call a player a wanker because took a crap corner? It's totally unnecessary.
They used to annoy me aswell but it was said we constantly did them like that at Benteke's request.
He whips them into the six yard box everytime at Burnley, indeed scored direct from one just last Saturday.
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Wasn't as bad as remembered in his first two seasons. Had a fantastic semi final game v Liverpool for instance.
Really missed Delph's energy when he left though.
Done well at Burnley, better than I thought actually.
I think it is fair to acknowledge that he had a couple of decent periods in his time with us - the run-in during Lambert's first season when he played in a three with Sylla and Delph, and the run-up to and including the semi-final under Sherwood when he again played in a three with Delph and Cleverley.
I've not seen much of him at a Burnley, but always felt during his time with us that he needed to play in a holding role alongside two energetic midfielders. During the two periods mentioned above, we were playing well as a side and were on the front foot in games. For the long periods during his time at the club when that wasn't the case and we were very much second best in games, his lack of athleticism and physicality were exposed. The analogy that comes to mind is a fly-half in rugby who looks great when the forwards are on top and they are getting good, quick ball, but looks completely different when their side is on the back foot and they are called upon to do the more physical aspects of the game.
I was surprised when a top flight club came in for him, but it sounds like has done OK there. Never really seemed to have a bad attitude unlike a number of the charlatans who were at the club at the time, so wish him well really.
Yep can't disagree with that. He's a continuity midfield, keep play ticking over and ball moving. If you want some box to box dynamos and score you don't tend to sign them from Crewe in league two.
Considering he jumped three divisions to moving to us he didn't actually do that badly in 12-13 although couldn't reach the level we wanted most of the players signed around that time. But then again most of those players were out of their depth in the premier league.
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I bore him no ill will, I remember him as one of the few who cared when we went down
for me he was another Conor Hourahane without the goals and assists
he could play 90 minutes and you would struggle to recollect that he had been on the pitch
normally when the opposition was bossing the game
other times when the going was a bit easier (so not very often) he could be half decent
likeable fella though
the most surprising thing is he was the most un-Sean Dyce-player you could pick yet he seems to have done really well there against the odds which is a credit to the lad
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I hope he has the game of his life and cracks in a hat trick today.
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A couple of crunching tackles on the Wilson twins wouldn't go amiss either.
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I think he was OK when we had Delph and he wasn’t required to be the main man.
Once he started to be asked to run the midfield he wasn’t up to it, but that’s no excuse for the level of abuse he got.
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For a continuity player, there were plenty of times I can recall him not showing for the ball.
Villa fans, like most fans, are big on effort if the skill isn't always there. The explosive player who flies into tackles and bombs forward will always get more attention, but there is room for the unfussy player who puts himself in the right position and keeps the play ticking over. We seen a bit of that in his first season. A poor-man's Petrov, of sorts. Less so from that point onwards.
My abiding memory of that second season is him placing himself behind an opponent in such a way that there was no chance of him being picked out with a pass. The period after that I mostly try to forget.
He speaks about his anxiety there, so that might have been part of it. But it's difficult to get behind players who don't look like they're trying. As would be true for fans of most clubs, I'd imagine.