Thinking The Unthinkable

[PaulWinch again]

I'm not thinking of January. We need to get a lot of points well before then if we're going to be alright, more precisely over the next four games.

[5ft811st2 Durham]

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if the point has been made already.

In my view, the mistake was Houllier. That was the beginning of the rot. If we had got that appointment right we could be playing regular Champions League football now. If we had got in a hungry manager with good contacts on the continent we could have got more from our existing players and found a few talents on the continent. MON had reached the end of the road and the club had reached a crossroads but crucially we had the prestige to get in a top manager to take us to the next level and more prizemoney etc. Instead of setting the 'PL experience and no job' criteria we should have drawn up a list of managers and chased them. We ended up appointing somebody who never seemed to be that hungry for the job ad thought anything from 7th down was about our place in English football. That season was real struggle despite the 9th place finish. Up until April it looked very dangerous for us.  It was the appointment of Houllier that sowed the seeds of doubt as to the footballing nous of the club. It was just such a bad fit and evey other week there was a new PR disaster as the club lost its way somewhat. Houllier was never a long-term appointment, it was just ridiculous.

Once he went and we very publicly got rejected by Martinez it was clear that we no longer had the prestige that we had the previous year. It was also clear that there would be no more big spending (Houllier got £30m to spend) so we were never going to get a Grade A manager. Our confidence in the board and the future of the club were rocked completely by the appointment of TSM. As my friend sais last night, maybe  McLeish did a good job keeping 'you lot up'? Maybe he did.

But our plight is the fault of terrible miss-management at the top. If we stay up (i still think we will) it will be a long hard road back to mid-table security and from there to anything above eight.

Thank you Randy.

Great post.

[PaulWinch again]

Except that any revisionist thinking that Mcleish did 'a good job' is simply untrue. He was diabolical.

[villa for life]

No need to panic yet. We've had a bad beginning to the season, no doubt, but the biggest danger at the moment is believing we are doomed. As supporters, I think we can play our bit to make sure this doesn't happen. We are in mid November, as we know from last year, it's late March and April when it will be time to worry. Last season, it took us almost the whole season to be safe. We may well do it earlier this season.
Loads of other clubs could go down: Swansea, Norwich, Stoke, Sunderland, Wigan, QPR, Southampton, Reading. Some of those are placed higher than might be expected at the moment after having bright beginnings, but I'd far rather have a good end to the season than a good beginning.

[Eigentor]

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if the point has been made already.

In my view, the mistake was Houllier. That was the beginning of the rot. If we had got that appointment right we could be playing regular Champions League football now. If we had got in a hungry manager with good contacts on the continent we could have got more from our existing players and found a few talents on the continent. MON had reached the end of the road and the club had reached a crossroads but crucially we had the prestige to get in a top manager to take us to the next level and more prizemoney etc. Instead of setting the 'PL experience and no job' criteria we should have drawn up a list of managers and chased them. We ended up appointing somebody who never seemed to be that hungry for the job ad thought anything from 7th down was about our place in English football. That season was real struggle despite the 9th place finish. Up until April it looked very dangerous for us.  It was the appointment of Houllier that sowed the seeds of doubt as to the footballing nous of the club. It was just such a bad fit and evey other week there was a new PR disaster as the club lost its way somewhat. Houllier was never a long-term appointment, it was just ridiculous.

Once he went and we very publicly got rejected by Martinez it was clear that we no longer had the prestige that we had the previous year. It was also clear that there would be no more big spending (Houllier got £30m to spend) so we were never going to get a Grade A manager. Our confidence in the board and the future of the club were rocked completely by the appointment of TSM. As my friend sais last night, maybe  McLeish did a good job keeping 'you lot up'? Maybe he did.

But our plight is the fault of terrible miss-management at the top. If we stay up (i still think we will) it will be a long hard road back to mid-table security and from there to anything above eight.

Thank you Randy.

Great post.

I don't really agree with this at all. The latter half of 2010/11 our form was top six. It was the summer of 2011 that was crucial: the combination of appointing McLeish and selling Downing. Losing Young to Man Utd was expected. Selling Downing was a big mistake even if we got a lot of money for him: he was player of the season, and selling our two of our best players instead of just one sent a terrible signal.

We could have got a grade A (ie a competent) manager in 2011. Rafa Benitez was obviously interested, and even if he wasn't the right fit (I doubt the board ever really pursued the option), it is obvious that they could have found someone better than the man who had just relegated Birmingham City.

Also, the notion that Houllier wasn't hungry is largely unfounded. He worked more hours in a week than his predeccessor did in a month. His philosophical reaction to defeat shouldn't be interpreted as defeatism.

I agree that Houllier was a poor appointment, but that was largely because he was brought in to do a three-season project but only had the health for 75 per cent of a season.

[exigo]

Having won only a handful of games in the last calendar year, I'd take a good bit anywhere we can get it right now.

[villa for life]

Selling players is risky, but it's not impossible to carry on and be successful if the right person is in charge.

Everton have sold Rooney, Arteta, Rodwell etc and still been successful.

[KevinGage]

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if the point has been made already.

In my view, the mistake was Houllier. That was the beginning of the rot. If we had got that appointment right we could be playing regular Champions League football now. If we had got in a hungry manager with good contacts on the continent we could have got more from our existing players and found a few talents on the continent. MON had reached the end of the road and the club had reached a crossroads but crucially we had the prestige to get in a top manager to take us to the next level and more prizemoney etc. Instead of setting the 'PL experience and no job' criteria we should have drawn up a list of managers and chased them. We ended up appointing somebody who never seemed to be that hungry for the job ad thought anything from 7th down was about our place in English football. That season was real struggle despite the 9th place finish. Up until April it looked very dangerous for us.  It was the appointment of Houllier that sowed the seeds of doubt as to the footballing nous of the club. It was just such a bad fit and evey other week there was a new PR disaster as the club lost its way somewhat. Houllier was never a long-term appointment, it was just ridiculous.

Once he went and we very publicly got rejected by Martinez it was clear that we no longer had the prestige that we had the previous year. It was also clear that there would be no more big spending (Houllier got £30m to spend) so we were never going to get a Grade A manager. Our confidence in the board and the future of the club were rocked completely by the appointment of TSM. As my friend sais last night, maybe  McLeish did a good job keeping 'you lot up'? Maybe he did.

But our plight is the fault of terrible miss-management at the top. If we stay up (i still think we will) it will be a long hard road back to mid-table security and from there to anything above eight.

Thank you Randy.

Great post.

I don't really agree with this at all. The latter half of 2010/11 our form was top six. It was the summer of 2011 that was crucial: the combination of appointing McLeish and selling Downing. Losing Young to Man Utd was expected. Selling Downing was a big mistake even if we got a lot of money for him: he was player of the season, and selling our two of our best players instead of just one sent a terrible signal.

Agree 100%

In isolation, the deal made sense.

But on the back of losing Barry, Milner and Young in just under two years, it cemented our reputation as a selling club. Soon after, we were receiving barbs from Assou Ekoutto and other assorted shit-heads  ("We need to keep our best players -or we'll end up like Aston Villa").

 As much as the rat faced ones antics annoyed me that summer, keeping him another 12 months would have probably ensured a better goal supply to Bent.  Downing could weigh in with a few goals too.   Hindsight being 20/20 vision and all, but were we really better off getting (admittedly decent) money for Downing, spending half of it on N'Zog and finishing a good number of places lower in the league than the previous season- thereby forgoing a fair chunk of prize money? 

The McLeish appointment was all sorts of wrong- and that too confirmed to the world we were no longer interested in competing.  Or even doing a passable impression of a club that might.

That summer we were linked with a decent pedigree of manager - some even went public with their interest in the job.  Last summer, the best we could realistically do was promising (but still learning on the job) candidates.   If a vacancy were to occur again in the next 6-12 months -under the current constraints- the bar will probably be lower still.

[Mister E]

It's worth a moment's pause to look at how the Tesco bags have conducted affairs over the last three seasons.
After Di Mattteo - a bold appointment at the time, and one that worked reasonably well in hindsight (in laying down a playing style and core of footballing players) - they managed to get Hodgson on the bounce from Liverpool and then Clark from Liverpool.
Although not blessed with tons of cash to spend, they have managed to secure good managers who have had a degree of continuity in terms of play-style. They've picked up some clever purchases and blended them into a decent footballing side. They may suffer if a rash of injuries afflicts them, but you can't argue with their progress.

You have to ask: why has RL not managed to do this over the last three seasons at VP? I think our recent history is pretty galling, actually, as I've pondered it over the weekend.

[SoccerHQ]

Sometimes you need a little bit of luck or help from the opposition aswell.

Sunderland imo are the worst team we've played this season and even though against Fulham they've been pretty poor but they've benefited hugely from Hangeland being an idiot and getting himself sent off.

Now think back to our game at Craven Cottage which was a pretty tight affair and could easily have finished 0-0. Fair to say we could've won that if Hangeland had been sent off in that early?

We need to get it together in these next 4 games but it would help if an opposition player could help us out by getting sent off or scoring an own goal, I don't think either has happened this season?

[eastie]

It's worth a moment's pause to look at how the Tesco bags have conducted affairs over the last three seasons.
After Di Mattteo - a bold appointment at the time, and one that worked reasonably well in hindsight (in laying down a playing style and core of footballing players) - they managed to get Hodgson on the bounce from Liverpool and then Clark from Liverpool.
Although not blessed with tons of cash to spend, they have managed to secure good managers who have had a degree of continuity in terms of play-style. They've picked up some clever purchases and blended them into a decent footballing side. They may suffer if a rash of injuries afflicts them, but you can't argue with their progress.

You have to ask: why has RL not managed to do this over the last three seasons at VP? I think our recent history is pretty galling, actually, as I've pondered it over the weekend.

Good post- Albion have spent a fraction of what we have and have a much better team than us .

[ronshirt]

When The Gnasher appears with the 'meh' and the 'face/palm' and the 'larf'; that'll be the time to worry. Until then have faith. We're not actually that bad.

[eastie]

When The Gnasher appears with the 'meh' and the 'face/palm' and the 'larf'; that'll be the time to worry. Until then have faith. We're not actually that bad.

Wouldn't surprise me if he's blowing the cobwebs off his laptop as we speak.

[Brian Taylor]

Sunderland result puts us in place rightly..Come on PL! You know we can do it, and I believe in you and the team! If the bags are up there then so, too, can Villa.
Strange days!

[Brian Taylor]

Can we get Carlos Slim interested?
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/liga-tycoon-slim-invests-real-oviedo-174603912.html