Aston Villa v Sunderland Post-Match Thread

[hartman_1982]

With regards to the offside/onside Bentner goal, was the interpretation of the law changed before a recent World Cup wherein the attacker should get the benefit of the doubt.  That’s where all that “clear daylight” bobbins was introduced.

With Bentner there was not “clear daylight” between him and the last defender so I think we were lucky unless they’ve changed the interpretation of the law back to how it was.

There has never been a rule about clear daylight in the offside rule. Half his body was closer to our goal line than our second last defender, so he was offside. It really is that simple!

[Summers]

With regards to the offside/onside Bentner goal, was the interpretation of the law changed before a recent World Cup wherein the attacker should get the benefit of the doubt.  That’s where all that “clear daylight” bobbins was introduced.

With Bentner there was not “clear daylight” between him and the last defender so I think we were lucky unless they’ve changed the interpretation of the law back to how it was.

The clear daylight is a "common sense" rule. Not a legitimate rule.

[Eigentor]

A draw! Who would have thought. Anyway, with other results going our way, it's another limp towards safety, and I'm still surprisingly confident that we will win comfortably against Bolton, and that will ease all our worries for the rest of the season.

[hartman_1982]

With regards to the offside/onside Bentner goal, was the interpretation of the law changed before a recent World Cup wherein the attacker should get the benefit of the doubt.  That’s where all that “clear daylight” bobbins was introduced.

With Bentner there was not “clear daylight” between him and the last defender so I think we were lucky unless they’ve changed the interpretation of the law back to how it was.

Might of been change as I found this:

Consideration should be given to any part of the head,
body or feet of the attacker in relation to the second
last defender, the ball or the halfway line .

For the purposes of this decision, the arms are not
considered to be part of the body.

Source http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/5.%20law%2011_554.pdf

What about the upper half of his torso and knee? As i say, it was close, but he was off.

[Summers]

Seeing as players can control the ball with the shoulder, the shoulder counts as part of the body. He was offside.

[Nev]

WM say that Lerner wasn't in attendance.

[Dante Lavelli]

With regards to the offside/onside Bentner goal, was the interpretation of the law changed before a recent World Cup wherein the attacker should get the benefit of the doubt.  That’s where all that “clear daylight” bobbins was introduced.

With Bentner there was not “clear daylight” between him and the last defender so I think we were lucky unless they’ve changed the interpretation of the law back to how it was.

There has never been a rule about clear daylight in the offside rule. Half his body was closer to our goal line than our second last defender, so he was offside. It really is that simple!

That’s why I said “interpretation” of the rule.  I agree it was never written into the rules however for a period (at least) it was how the rule was officiated.  Thankfully the decision went our way on this occasion.

[Greg N'Ash]

Best you can say is it would have been an "iffy" decision either way. Or in other words, if it had been United, Chelsea Liverpool etc., rather than sunderland they probably would have been given the benefit of the doubt.

[Steve R]

With regards to the offside/onside Bentner goal, was the interpretation of the law changed before a recent World Cup wherein the attacker should get the benefit of the doubt.  That’s where all that “clear daylight” bobbins was introduced.

With Bentner there was not “clear daylight” between him and the last defender so I think we were lucky unless they’ve changed the interpretation of the law back to how it was.

It has changed. It's now something like if any part of the attacker's body that can legally score a goal is goalside of (effectively) the last defender. It was still offside though from what I could see. Although to be fair, I did have my matchday specs on.

Sunderland did a good job of closing us down and Sessegnon is a good player. Fat lot of good that will do them when MON moves him to right back.

There was no lack of effort from our lads, but not much composure either. Once again it was the younger players who were prominent, plus Heskey - who at a rough guess ha yet to receive a contract offer from anywhere.

The starting best four is the best we have, going 4-4-2 does leave us exposed in central midfield. I'd be happy with a Ron Saunders like formation on Tuesday, 3 in central midfield, two strikers (Heskey partnering Weimann) and just the one wide player.
 

[Dante Lavelli]

Best you can say is it would have been an "iffy" decision either way. Or in other words, if it had been United, Chelsea Liverpool etc., rather than sunderland they probably would have been given the benefit of the doubt.

Aint that the truth.

Over all I thought it was a pretty entertaining 0-0.  We appeared to consider Sunderland’s agenda to be sufficiently low to have a decent go at them and they were always dangerous on the break.

[ozzjim]

With regards to the offside/onside Bentner goal, was the interpretation of the law changed before a recent World Cup wherein the attacker should get the benefit of the doubt.  That’s where all that “clear daylight” bobbins was introduced.

With Bentner there was not “clear daylight” between him and the last defender so I think we were lucky unless they’ve changed the interpretation of the law back to how it was.

It has changed. It's now something like if any part of the attacker's body that can legally score a goal is goalside of (effectively) the last defender. It was still offside though from what I could see. Although to be fair, I did have my matchday specs on.

Sunderland did a good job of closing us down and Sessegnon is a good player. Fat lot of good that will do them when MON moves him to right back.

There was no lack of effort from our lads, but not much composure either. Once again it was the younger players who were prominent, plus Heskey - who at a rough guess ha yet to receive a contract offer from anywhere.

The starting best four is the best we have, going 4-4-2 does leave us exposed in central midfield. I'd be happy with a Ron Saunders like formation on Tuesday, 3 in central midfield, two strikers (Heskey partnering Weimann) and just the one wide player.
 

John Gregory employed that a lot too. I think we should certainly be doing that on Tuesday. I would drop Alrighton for Gardner and have the 3 in there with NZogbia roaming where and whichever side he fancies. Take the shackles off him completely.

[Louzie0]

Wondering how injured Collins and Gabby are, with an eye to next game.  TBF, I was surprised that BB appeared as sub - but not that he appeared so late! It looked as if McL was getting concentrated advice in stereo for at least 20 minutes before he decided to sub anybody, later in the second half. 

Perhaps Gardner and Carruthers were part of a master plan which disappeared when Hutton had to replace Collins and it all went south when Gabby had to be subbed as well.  Thought both Hutton and |Heskey did well, under the circ.s.

I agree with the posters who saw fight and determination in the Villa today and just wish that some of the attacks could have been coverted into at least one goal from open play.  But goodness me, who's the corner and dead ball specialist?  Marc isn't!

[midnite]

We had a go. Villa peppered sunderlands goal all fame but wih no real conviction. For all the effort, at no point do I think we'd score a goal. I'm not blaming McLeish on that, I just think without Bent we lack a prominent goal scorer. Weimann i think, will become a great striker for Villa but he still has a lot to learn.

Ireland and N'Zogbia tried hard to break through Sunderland and I was very disappointed to see N'Zogbia come off. Especially for Bannan. Carruthers it Gardener would of made a better sub in my opinion.

Heskey didn't do too bad, but as soon as he came on you knew what we goig to happen. A punt up field, flick on and hope someone is at the end of it. It's not what I want to see at VP but at this stage of the season I'll take a win any way I can.

Tuesday is a big game. Win it and we're safe for the season.

[andyh]

I thought some of the kids were superb in effort and endeavor and put some of the seniors to shame.
But, for all the effort, there is very little quality in that team.
Another shocker of a game for Mutton, and Ireland was piss poor again, totally anonymous for most of the game.
The odd touch here and there, the odd pass here and there,does not make a quality player.
As much as it sticks in the craw, the best midfielder on that pitch was Craig Gardner, he totally bossed the ame and I think, was unfortunate to get sent off.
Oh well, another point as we limp over the line.

[django]

We will probably be ok now as the sides below us are running out of games. Drawing so many games has put us in this mess, exactly what relegated Blues last year. Worrying that that lesson hasn't been learned b our manager.