Is the fans expectations half the problem at Villa?

[PaulWinch again]

Fans should always have the highest expectations for Aston Villa.
However the current side should expect to be at least midtable. Top 10, certainly.

Precisely we are hugely underperforming in every meaning of the word.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

However the current side should expect to be at least midtable. Top 10, certainly.

And they could be if we played with a little more guile and imagination.
Shackling (or not playing) our most creative players is a recipe for disaster.

[PaulWinch again]

However the current side should expect to be at least midtable. Top 10, certainly.

And they could be if we played with a little more guile and imagination.
Shackling (or not playing) our most creative players is a recipe for disaster.

Replace 'a little more' with 'any' and I think that's essentially the problem.

[Concrete John]

Not read this thread, but here's what I think:-

A lot of the forward players and the keeper are top 6 quality.  The defence on paper is mid-table, but has played awful individually at times and cost us games.  So the balance is higher mid-table, but the bad defending has dragged us down to lower mid-table.

For all the talk of us 'finishing 9th' last season, the 2nd have of the season form (as in post-Darren Bent) was top 6 calibre.  Not replacing Downing and Ash drops you to mid-table again, which compounded with the re-curring theme of shit defending leaves us lower than that.

The irony being the manager has a reputation as defensive, yet that has been our biggest problem this season.

[NeilH]

At this moment in time the feelings of the fans are frankly the last thing on the mind of the board as they aggressively seek to control the wage bill without too much consequence. Quite where we go next season, after much shaking of hands from the management and board on a job well done, I really don’t know. All I do know is that there will be bigger empty gaps at VP next season, but still not enough to warrant a sacking of the manager.

I take your point, Neil, but the two highlighted comments are the crux of it. Ignoring the fans will result in smaller attendances next season and this will drive down revenue (both from attendances and merchandising) - which means the squeeze on salaries will have to continue.
A negative downward spiral.

I have no doubt that it will be a downward spiral, but the board seem to be of the impression that by cutting the wage bill and putting all the focus on developing the youth team we can arrest the downward spiral in a year or so.... They are playing a risky game and I'm not convinced that there are enough 'football' people at the club ala Stride and Deadly to ask big questions as to the wisdom of this strategy.

[Mister E]

At this moment in time the feelings of the fans are frankly the last thing on the mind of the board as they aggressively seek to control the wage bill without too much consequence. Quite where we go next season, after much shaking of hands from the management and board on a job well done, I really don’t know. All I do know is that there will be bigger empty gaps at VP next season, but still not enough to warrant a sacking of the manager.

I take your point, Neil, but the two highlighted comments are the crux of it. Ignoring the fans will result in smaller attendances next season and this will drive down revenue (both from attendances and merchandising) - which means the squeeze on salaries will have to continue.
A negative downward spiral.

I have no doubt that it will be a downward spiral, but the board seem to be of the impression that by cutting the wage bill and putting all the focus on developing the youth team we can arrest the downward spiral in a year or so.... They are playing a risky game and I'm not convinced that there are enough 'football' people at the club ala Stride and Deadly to ask big questions as to the wisdom of this strategy.

Agreed, Neil.

[The Laughing Policeman]

With the players we have, by this stage of the season we should be so comfortable in mid table that the season is effectively over for us.
All my life as a Villa fan, I've never really expected us to do more than finish somewhere in the top half of the table except when we were in Divs 2 or 3. The one thing that I do expect from any Aston Villa team is that they play as well as they possibly can and then I can live with the reality that for most of my time as a Villa fan with a couple of notable exceptions we have been a distinctly mid table team.

[MadJohnnyC]

I don't expect the world, but it grates when I keep seeing teams that we are of similar status to overtake us and compete whilst we stand still - in fact go backwards.

Man City being an obvious exception to the rule, but Tottenham in the first 10 or so Premiership seasons were always bottom half and now look at them, that could and should have been us if better managerial decisions from the top were made at a number of different times over the years when we were on the cusp of great things. Newcastle have come back up with a championship side and are looking in good shape. Even Norwich and Swansea are doing better. And Stoke. Bloody Stoke. Everton are having a real bad time of it too but no doubt they can look at us and say well we haven't spent anywhere near what they have and we aren't that bad !

[He wears a magic hat]

Goalkeeper top 6

Defence bottom half

Midfield Championship

Forwards Top 6

Overall bottom half

[rob_bridge]

Mid Table -Top half mixing with Newcastle, Everton and Sunderland for positions 7-10. The league is weaker than it was 3-4 years ago

[kippaxvilla2]

22. Aston Villa 42 8 12 22 45 79  -34 36

The above was our record in 1986-87 that cost two managers their job in that season.

Admittedly that was in a 42 game season.  With the exception of the goal difference, there are some comparisons to this seasons win ratio.

[glasses]

Goalkeeper top 6

Defence bottom half

Midfield Championship

Forwards Top 6

Overall bottom half

Thats a pretty decent assessment.

Although, I personally think we should be comfortably mid-table, no lower than 12th with the players we have..

[Mister E]

Goalkeeper top 6

Defence bottom half

Midfield Championship

Forwards Top 6

Overall bottom half

Thats a pretty decent assessment.

Although, I personally think we should be comfortably mid-table, no lower than 12th with the players we have..

The first choice midfield is not as bad as painted here; mid-Premiership.

[PeterWithesShin]

See that's where we differ Greg. I don't think our squad should be as poor as it's performing. The fact that it is, and has for most of the two thirds of the season can surely be largely blamed on the manager and coaches.

If for arguments sake we accept that the obvious 6 sides have better squads, there is no one else whose squad should worry us. The fact that so many are currently looking better and certainly playing better and look far more cohesive is what is causing the discontent. Well it's certainly what's causing it for me.

Now i'd say Bent and Gabby are probably as good a strikeforce you'll likely to see outside the top4 albiet we have precious little in reserve, but the midfield and defence?

Ireland has flattered to decieve and whether he's gradually improving or not its still getting on for four seasons since he was a force. N'zogbia i was never convinced about anyway, and though again he's shown glimpses he could come good, i'm not sure how "good" that will be. Petrov is well past it, and Delpth is a 2nd division player who got lucky. The youth is still unproven apart from albrighton who admittedly Mcleish hasn't got the best out of.

I won't go through the defence becuse we all know what's wrong there, but my view personally is the midfield and defence are no better than anyone around us and probably worse in many cases

But the midfield and defence shouldn't be as bad. That's my point (again). With Given in goal and a back 5 of Collins, Dunne, Warnock, Cuellar, Hutton plus the youngsters should be performing better than it does.

Same goes for the midfield. When you add the youngsters, in theory while it's not a CL midfield it should be able to do better. Like pass the ball and move around a bit to create space.

The question is, why are both defence and midfield so god awful so often? I cannot accept that a good manager couldn't get more out of the current squad.

Look at the respective defences and midfields of the clubs from Newcastle down who are above us right now. When the transfer window shut in the summer how many of them would you have swapped with ours?
It's easy with hindsight to do it now based on actual performances, but back then?

[Vanilla]

The question is, why are both defence and midfield so god awful so often? I cannot accept that a good manager couldn't get more out of the current squad.

How many times has that been written about struggling teams? And how strange it is when a miraculous turnaround occurs in the players' attitude and form, just as a new manager waddles in through the door.