Is the fans expectations half the problem at Villa?

[Greg N'Ash]

We're now in that traditional part of the season where the fans have turned on the manager, and given that GH was given till mid-November before people were saying we should be 6th, and Mcleish is roughly three points off mid-table with everyone calling for his head, where do you think this team given a "good" manager should be?

This isn't some thinly veiled accusation aimed us being fickle, but i do wonder how good some people think the remnants of MON's team is and where Mcleish should be for fans to get off his back. I know its about performances as much as picking up points but aren't the two connected? If you have crap players the performances won't be up to much.. Personally, apart from Bent, Gabby, Carlos and Given i'd say we were mid-table at best and probably the midfield and defence overall lower half.

So where should we be in your opinion?

[PeterWithesShin]

6th-10th and playing much better football than we currently do. And looking there is something approaching a longterm plan in place rather than looking like we are just stumbling around in the dark with no idea what the next step should be.

[Greg N'Ash]

6th-10th and playing much better football than we currently do. And looking there is something approaching a longterm plan in place rather than looking like we are just stumbling around in the dark with no idea what the next step should be.

see that does surprise me because we finished 9th with Houllier but he had Young, Downing NRC etc.. to call on. and yet you think the lowest we should finish is one place lower than last season and possibly 3 places higher?

[hawkeye]

It takes a pretty bad manager to get that squad to 15th, we should be 5 wins better than we are right now.

[villan from luton]

We should be mid table for sure. The manager cannot motivate the players, though to be fair they have been a disgrace as well

[GarTomas]

Top half - just. 

I think last season Houllier judged very quickly (and rightly in my opinion) that our defence was past their best (Dunne) over rated (Collins) and Warnock was never going to see eye to eye after Liverpool.  With Luke Young as well and his issues the defence was always going to be an issue.  This year though we have a manager who supposedly builds his teams around defence and hey presto we can't defend.  Guessing my point here is based on the presence of Young and Downing in the team we should of been higher last year, but think Dunne/Collins were definitely big influences in the dressing room and hindered his overall philosophy.

Even with the loss of Young/Downing still think we should be higher than we are.  Bent (if playing to his strengths which we don't) and Gabby (who to be fair has performed better for McLeish than he did for GH last year despite still being played wide which was cited as his issue last year for under performing)  should be sufficient for us to be scoring enough goals, especially considered the presence of Ireland, N'Zogbia and Albrighton behind.  Unfair to call the rest of the squad crap - Cuellar has been consistently played out of position (best centre half we have by a good stretch) but would agree that we are better front to back and therefore our tactics of trying to nick wins and draw 0-0 is fatally flawed as we are not good enough to keep consistent clean sheets and by doing so limit our attacking moves.

[CT]

It was interesting to hear Paul Merson saying that the reason Villa, Albion and Wolves were so poor at home was because of the fans.

[hawkeye]

we had a huge injury problem for several months under GH and a mutiny in the camp.

[GarTomas]

we had a huge injury problem for several months under GH and a mutiny in the camp.

Any played the kids and gave them belief and they performed admirably.

[Greg N'Ash]

well we've had munity problems this season by all accounts and while the injuries aren't as bad, there's less players to choose from.

[villan from luton]

Do you honestly think Norwich and Sunderland have better players than us

[KevinGage]

Keown own goal said similar.

Perhaps it does seem that way at times to those on the outside looking in (and despite playing for the club, it's clear the Human Hair Follicle has little affection for the place so that applies to him too).   Maybe he is irked that his beloved Arsenal have made a fool of themselves in Europe once again. Perhaps 'Have you won the European Cup?'  gets under his ape like skin, a as it does the Chelsea, Tottingham and the rest of the tarts down south.

Most Villa fans I know weren't expecting top 4, top 6 or anything remotely similar to the high octane box office drama that champion of the underdog and all round God-like genius Martin O'Magic provided.  With bundles and bundles of cash, of course.

Most were resigned to one of those infamous seasons of transition, with the emergence of some of the youth players providing the likely bright spots. But gamely holding on to a narrow 0-1 or 0-2 reversal, not winning at home for four months, sitting in 15th place going into March and generally being mocked up and down the land is probably a wee bit below expectations, yeah.

[hawkeye]

I think the results coupled with the managers philosophy resulting in non winning negative football is the real problem.

[TheSandman]

6th-10th and playing much better football than we currently do. And looking there is something approaching a longterm plan in place rather than looking like we are just stumbling around in the dark with no idea what the next step should be.

see that does surprise me because we finished 9th with Houllier but he had Young, Downing NRC etc.. to call on. and yet you think the lowest we should finish is one place lower than last season and possibly 3 places higher?

I was happy with 9th place. I wasn't happy with all the shit that went before (City, Liverpool etc). If you look at the quality of our squad it should be around 9th or 10th. We managed that last season with a player's mutiny and the biggest injury tole since the first day of the Somme. 15th with our squad is below par. I'm sure we'd tolerate a bit lower than midtable if we didn't play in a fashion that made the O'Neill era look like Barcelona. We'd probably even tolerate shit football if it was successful. Ours isn't which somewhat defeats the purpose of defensive football. Results and play aren't good enough. We would probably be happy with one or the other.

[PeterWithe]

It was interesting to hear Paul Merson saying that the reason Villa, Albion and Wolves were so poor at home was because of the fans.

I wonder when was the last time Paul had to put his hand in his pocket and buy a ticket for a match?