Is the fans expectations half the problem at Villa?

[eamonn]

Greg you seem to be saying that we're about where we should be. You'd probably get on well with Fuckin 'Eck.

[Greg N'Ash]

6th-10th and playing much better football than we currently do. And looking there is something approaching a longterm plan in place rather than looking like we are just stumbling around in the dark with no idea what the next step should be.

see that does surprise me because we finished 9th with Houllier but he had Young, Downing NRC etc.. to call on. and yet you think the lowest we should finish is one place lower than last season and possibly 3 places higher?

Yes. MON left 5 days before the season, GH came in when the window was shut. We had the worst injury run i've ever known. There are 3 players gone from last season that I remotely give a shit aren't at VP.

AM had a full preseason. Everyone else bar Citeh and possibly Spurs and Newcastle are worse than last season.

As for 6th place. Do you think our squad should be 14 points and 9 places worse than current 6th place side Newcastle?

Depends if you think Newcastle will finish in 6th and that far ahead of us. I don't.  I can't really agree with you on where you think the team should be, because while last season was a nightmare for injuries, munity's, and stroppy pube-headed managers walking out on us on a whim, i thought the side was shot the season before and even if MON had stayed major surgery was needed. as i said in my opening post, i think we're a mid-table side and most people seem to agree. Thing is if we win at blackburn we'll be a mid-table side.  If we don't, we'll probably still be within a win of being a mid-table side so you sort of wonder why when he's 3 points within meeting our expectations, why everyone wants him out so much.

oh come on, have you watched us lately?

well yes. Its awful for the most part with a few glimpses of hope here and there but performances aside and given the crap he's inherited and not forgetting some of his buys haven't exactly shone, he's still not far off being points wise where the majority on here feel we should be - 6 points seperate us from 9th and while the football is bobbins, MON's wasn't exactly brilliant. In fact the midfield that dragged his side above the current one, cost getting on for 30m even ignoring Barry and Downing and all of them are now playing for sides in the top 6 less petrov who is very very old. This thread was never meant as a defence of Mcleish but we really have too poor a side to expect more thn 10th or so at best

[Greg N'Ash]

Greg you seem to be saying that we're about where we should be. You'd probably get on well with Fuckin 'Eck.

I think we should be mid-table and as 10th is currently 6 points off where we are, we're not far off that.                   

[Toronto Villa]

More than the actual style of play it's the philosophy that this is the way we should be playing that bothers me the most. That last week vs Man City was somehow an excellent strategy, or that yesterday had we been more clinical we'd have won, ignoring the fact that had Wigan been even a little clinical we'd have been battered. We have the guns in this squad to score way more goals than we have. If you accept that we are going to concede a few then we may as well go for it. McLeish has taken the position that if we are going to struggle to keep the ball out of the net then we may as well not be adventurous and instead try and scrape results.

Truth is we should be an upper mid table team. What we have instead is a team devoid of confidence, and compounding that negativity every week. I do wonder what each weeks practice looks like. What do they talk about? How do they scrimmage? You get the impression that they practice 10 behind the ball and hit it long because they've done that better than any other team this season.

If McLeish really, truly, honestly wants them to play more aggressively and openly as his team selections sometime suggest, then the players aren't listening. If he is sending attacking teams out but with the same negative message then it's all window dressing and he will never be brave enough to change. That's where he will lose those of us clinging to any hope tht he will come good.

[PeterWithesShin]

See that's where we differ Greg. I don't think our squad should be as poor as it's performing. The fact that it is, and has for most of the two thirds of the season can surely be largely blamed on the manager and coaches.

If for arguments sake we accept that the obvious 6 sides have better squads, there is no one else whose squad should worry us. The fact that so many are currently looking better and certainly playing better and look far more cohesive is what is causing the discontent. Well it's certainly what's causing it for me.

[KevinGage]

Most teams would miss Barry, Milner, Ash and Downing (the Downing of last season, not the one currently hiding for the Redscouse) that much is obvious.

But it's not as if we haven't had any investment since those departures.

We also have a number of promising young players who we should be utilising better.

Most managers outside of the usual suspects + Newcastle would be happy to shape something approximating a decent midfield from the likes of Ireland, N'Zogbia, Delph, Petrov, Bannan, Albrighton, Gardner and Clark.   

[taylorsworkrate]

The shit football, the defeatist attitude and the defensive tactics?

Don't be silly Zogman.

It's because he used to manage blues.

[andyh]

I still maintain there is a decent team within our squad.
If we had (for example) Rednap managing the Villa, would we be where we are now ?
I very much doubt it.

[richardhubbard]

Greg you seem to be saying that we're about where we should be. You'd probably get on well with Fuckin 'Eck.

We are also 6 points off relegation


I think we should be mid-table and as 10th is currently 6 points off where we are, we're not far off that.                   

[jonc73]

The Villa players are just not giving 100%. I do beleive there are quite a few Villa fans who have an unrealistic expectation of the club, but that is the same at many clubs.Its difficult for a club like Villa who have had success in a lot of people's living memory, even though it was over 30 years ago. Im sure some Everton fans feel the same.

At Villa the problem now is the club is not fulfilling its potential on many levels from the owner down to the players. You only have to look at Newcastle this year. They were being touted for relegation but look at them. The excuses stop there for me as I'm sure Villa Park would have been rocking if Mcleish had done what Pardew has managed to do.

It's important to feel your club is heading in the right direction, then fans will be more patient. I don't think anyone feels Villa are heading upwards, so the fans reaction is perfectly understandable in my view.

[taylorsworkrate]

There is definitely some decent players still at our club.

Given, Gabby, Bent, Ireland are all quality players, who would easily get in any side outside of Man City, Man Utd and Tottenham. N'zogbia also has the talent to be put in that category, although the majority of his form hasn't suggested that.

Petrov, Clark, Bannan are all good players whilst Gardner has shown a lot of potential. Herd is also reasonable enough as is Albrighton.

Defensively is much more of an issue admittedly, although MON didn't have the same trouble organising them as Houllier and McLeish have.

Bottom line is that although we've lost some very good players, we should in no way be as low in the league as we are.

More importantly, in no way should we be seeing the limpless, pathetic surrender football that has been served up for much of the season.

[Phil from the upper holte]

Maybe they should make merson watch every game between now and the end of the season, same for monkey man THEN they can decide if were being unrealistic

[paul_e]

For me I guess the expectation is 6-10 this season, we're not good enough to be higher but we've got enough quality in the squad and he had a full pre-season so I'd expect us to stayed where we were or improved.  I know we lost good players in the summer but last season had so many factors that had a negative effect that 9th wasn't a true reflection of that squad.  Take away the period between october and december when he had no fit forwards or midfielders and I genuinely think we could've got top 6 last season.

This season we've drawn 10 out of 25 and only won 6.  If we'd drawn 5 and won 8 we'd have the same points but I doubt so many people would be bemoaning the lack of ambition.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning.  It's nothing of the kind.  The game is about glory.  It's about doing things in style, with a flourish; it's about going out to beat the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."  Danny Blanchflower

That Blanchflower quote would make McLeish physically sick.

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

It was interesting to hear Paul Merson saying that the reason Villa, Albion and Wolves were so poor at home was because of the fans.

I wonder when was the last time Paul had to put his hand in his pocket and buy a ticket for a match?

Sorry but I dont think I have ever heard Mers. have something interesting to say. Fantastic player, nice bloke, but interesting insights and opinions ?
He is a bit like someone who gets talking to you about football enthusiastically, and you agree with them even though you think they are talking bollox because you dont want to bother getting in an argument.