Lost Dressing Room? - Update! (Nzogbia Row?)

[DR PETERS]

We can all clearly see that certain players aren't playing to the top of their games. They didn't under Houllier and they're still not.
Yes they're moany, spoilt, overpaid, bastards, but lets be honest, all too many players these days are. Many clubs have to put up with players who are a bunch of twats. Christ, John Terry must be a bloody nightmare for some managers.

However, under the right management, we have a squad who should be at least 10 points better off right now, than what it is. Martin O Neill rubbed a few players up the wrong way, but even they respected him and how he went about things. He also got results. It's not just down to the money he spent. He makes players perform to the top of their game. Sunderlands squad is worse than us, but look at how much better they look as a team, and how good their form has been under our former boss.

Houllier- past it. Wrong man in the wrong job.
McLeish- Not a Premier League manager. Not by any stretch.

It's plain as day that players aren't giving enough for this manager. They might be a bunch of pillocks who should have a bit more decency, but every other club in the top flight has to deal with that. For me, the problem lies with McLiesh. It's a big, big problem. If not for 3-4 really god awful sides, then we'd be struggling big time.

I am sick to death of hearing people still talk about O'Neill as though he was some sort of management genius. Yes we finished 6th three times but we ran out of steam at the end of every season because he had his favorites and wouldn't use the squad. Remember when we were 12 points clear in 3rd place and flying in all competitions when he decided to drop half the team for european game that they were gagging to play in because we were on a roll, then they blew a 2 goal lead at home to Stoke and it all went wrong from there. Not the work of a footballing genius. Want more examples ? He is the man who let Gary Cahill leave and purchased Dunne, Collins, Knight and Davies. If you look at the players he signed (which are the basis of the current squad) most were poor, some were average and a few were brilliant. He was not sacked HE WALKED OUT ON US, shall I say that again, HE WALKED OUT ON US and 5 days before the start of the season that for me is one of the biggest crimes every committed against out club, nearly 2 years on we are still dealing with the crap he left behind and a bunch of players some of who it would appear do want to play for any other manager, get rid of them I say.

Rant over, but for what its worth McLeish will never work, I would love it to but it wont because he will never win the fans over. The sooner Randy gets rid of him and Faulkner the better.

Still some fans wanted Coyle or Martinez !!!!!

[Concrete John]

However, under the right management, we have a squad who should be at least 10 points better off right now, than what it is.

That would put us on 38 points and joint 7th with Liverpool.  Although I'd agree we've underachieved, this squad is not that good. 

AM's biggest fault with us is not sorting the defence out.

[Rick_avfc]

I think this will all blow over in the next few weeks.  The dressing room is at a low due to results not going their way.  Also, the players know that theres a lot of unrest with some fans so will try and upset things more so that the manager gets singled out hence heaping more pressure on him and the board to get rid.

Is getting rid of the manager the answer?  I really dont know.  Who would be his replacement?  Plus avfc isn't looking very appealing to any manager at the moment anyway. 

There are a nucleus of players that need to be sold in the summer with probably Warnock, Dunne and Collins at the top of the list.  I feel sorry for Nzogbia, I mean, I would be pissed off too if I was subbed for Emile fecking Heskey!!  People are forgetting the Zog saved our blushes last game by scorer a quality goal and also helped us back into the game yesterday by setting up Keane to score.

The manager should know better than to keep selecting the same players who are off form i.e. Warnock and Hutton!  Surely, Clark should be given another go at left back.  Yes he had a torrid time against Wolves but so did the whole team in the first half of that game.

Regarding twitter, its not as bad as people think it is.  It can be used for useful things i.e. promoting your business etc.  Yes, footballers need to be careful when using it but some footballers are using it responsibly i.e. Rio Ferdinand, Michael Owen and more closer to home - Marc Albrighton and Gary Gardner so to say footballers should be banned is wrong.  Its all about education and i'm sure, Nzogbia has probably learnt not to air those sorts of comments again.  Only time will tell.

As for Mcleish, I admire him for taking the job as he knew that there would a massive unrest with the fans and he would have to do alot to win them over but i still do not believe that he is 100% the right man for the job.  He continues to play the likes of Hutton and Warnock and becuase of their poor performances, players like Ireland and Nzogbia seem to be getting a telling off for not helping them out enough.

Shaun Teale has tweeted this morning saying the following:-
"McLeish we didnt stop the cross and we have to.  Problem is Alex those two full backs havent stopped anything all season smell the coffee"

At least we are seeing an ex pro saying something that the media and other ex pro's are not saying!  The truth and not shifting the blame to others.

[Greg N'Ash]

However, under the right management, we have a squad who should be at least 10 points better off right now, than what it is.

That would put us on 38 points and joint 7th with Liverpool.  Although I'd agree we've underachieved, this squad is not that good. 

AM's biggest fault with us is not sorting the defence out.

i think its one thing knowing what the problem is, its another doing something about it with no money. I've said this before but everything he's tried this season in midfield (Clarke, Jenas, Keane, Heskey) has been about getting the pressure off the defence whether thats keeping the ball better or just helping them out. Its worked on occasions but he's really going to struggle to make anything of that defence now it hasn't got the sort of players it had in front of it under MON.

[lovejoy]

MON has got 22/30 points with Steve Bruce's Sunderland.
he also won a tribuneral hearing against the club for constructive dismissal - hardly "walking out".

[pauliewalnuts]

MON has got 22/30 points with Steve Bruce's Sunderland.
he also won a tribuneral hearing against the club for constructive dismissal - hardly "walking out".

He didn't win a tribunal - the parties settled amicably, that's not the same thing.

He did walk out though - it is hard to see how leaving with zero notice five days before the start of the season is anything but walking out.

[themossman]

I'd go so far as to say that if you look at the debacle of last season, loss of Young and continued presence of bellends like Dunne and Warnock on the teamsheet McLeish has got a lot more than many would expected out of the squad.

[MarkM]

MON has got 22/30 points with Steve Bruce's Sunderland.
he also won a tribuneral hearing against the club for constructive dismissal - hardly "walking out".

He didn't win a tribunal - the parties settled amicably, that's not the same thing.

He did walk out though - it is hard to see how leaving with zero notice five days before the start of the season is anything but walking out.

He did walk out on his job. There is not argument there.

The reasons for him walking out, now that you can argue about

[Rick_avfc]

Sounds like this is fast becoming a MON topic. might as well add my 2p's worth.  MON, imo, very good manager who can get the best out of players.Nob head and totally out of order for walking out on us 5 days before the season started but stuff behind the scenes contributed to that hence the amicably settled court case which he seemed to be more happy about than AVFC.  Would I have MON instead of Eck? hmmm, yes I would as I know with these bunch of players would be at least 10 points better off and looking at securing a place in the Europa league.

[Concrete John]

However, under the right management, we have a squad who should be at least 10 points better off right now, than what it is.

That would put us on 38 points and joint 7th with Liverpool.  Although I'd agree we've underachieved, this squad is not that good. 

AM's biggest fault with us is not sorting the defence out.

i think its one thing knowing what the problem is, its another doing something about it with no money. I've said this before but everything he's tried this season in midfield (Clarke, Jenas, Keane, Heskey) has been about getting the pressure off the defence whether thats keeping the ball better or just helping them out. Its worked on occasions but he's really going to struggle to make anything of that defence now it hasn't got the sort of players it had in front of it under MON.

For someone with a reputation as a defensive coach, I'd simply expect him to get more out of the defenders he's got than he has.  Just working with them in training and get the organisation right, etc.  He hasn't done that and it's continually cost us points this season.  Lets not forget that we're talking about players who have multiple caps and formed part of good defences in the past. 

[DR PETERS]

MON has got 22/30 points with Steve Bruce's Sunderland.
he also won a tribuneral hearing against the club for constructive dismissal - hardly "walking out".

I don't remember him being sacked either, he spent £120m on mostly dross which we are now left with. Yes he won a constructive dismissal case which means he had a good lawyer doesn't mean what he did was right. Constructive dismissal means your employer made it so difficult to do your job that you were forced to leave, If O'Neill thought being asked to lower the wage bill and continue to finish in the top 6 was too difficult then he had a case, personally I think the fact that during his time he spent £82M net on transfers and had a state of the art training centre built was enough to deliver the 5 year plan of Champions League football
So he has gone into a club and given them a lift he isn't the first to do that and won't be the last. Don't get me wrong I think O'Neill is a good manager just not the genius some think he is and people defend the fact that he left, I repeat HE WALKED OUT ON US, he wasn't sacked, if he had any feeling towards the club or supporters he would have at lease left at the end of the previous season or just done the job for another year then left, he walked out 5 days before the season started for that he lost all my respect and I find it unbelievable that some fans still defend him

[Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle]

MON has got 22/30 points with Steve Bruce's Sunderland.
he also won a tribuneral hearing against the club for constructive dismissal - hardly "walking out".

I don't remember him being sacked either, he spent £120m on mostly dross which we are now left with. Yes he won a constructive dismissal case which means he had a good lawyer doesn't mean what he did was right. Constructive dismissal means your employer made it so difficult to do your job that you were forced to leave, If O'Neill thought being asked to lower the wage bill and continue to finish in the top 6 was too difficult then he had a case, personally I think the fact that during his time he spent £82M net on transfers and had a state of the art training centre built was enough to deliver the 5 year plan of Champions League football
So he has gone into a club and given them a lift he isn't the first to do that and won't be the last. Don't get me wrong I think O'Neill is a good manager just not the genius some think he is and people defend the fact that he left, I repeat HE WALKED OUT ON US, he wasn't sacked, if he had any feeling towards the club or supporters he would have at lease left at the end of the previous season or just done the job for another year then left, he walked out 5 days before the season started for that he lost all my respect and I find it unbelievable that some fans still defend him

That's the first time I've actually understood a Doctors handwriting.

[DR PETERS]

MON has got 22/30 points with Steve Bruce's Sunderland.
he also won a tribuneral hearing against the club for constructive dismissal - hardly "walking out".

He didn't win a tribunal - the parties settled amicably, that's not the same thing.

He did walk out though - it is hard to see how leaving with zero notice five days before the start of the season is anything but walking out.

LOL got a bit carried away with my point, I forgot that he didn't actually win the constructive dismissal case !

[Concrete John]

I can't and won't defend his walking out, but his record while here is something that will always create debate.  £82m net over 4 years is not that great, when compared to the spending of those we were trying to catch.  And for that £82m net you have circa £50m value in three players who have since left.  The wages, of course, is another story and effectively detracts from the value of his signings as when we want to move them on nobody will pay them as much.  See Beye, Habib. 

[DR PETERS]

Sounds like this is fast becoming a MON topic. might as well add my 2p's worth.  MON, imo, very good manager who can get the best out of players.Nob head and totally out of order for walking out on us 5 days before the season started but stuff behind the scenes contributed to that hence the amicably settled court case which he seemed to be more happy about than AVFC.  Would I have MON instead of Eck? hmmm, yes I would as I know with these bunch of players would be at least 10 points better off and looking at securing a place in the Europa league.

Using that argument we should have appointed Alan Pardew - I am sure that would have gone down well