Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Shoody on February 05, 2012, 04:17:44 PM
-
Rumours circulating about the players having a little bit of a backlash versus McLeish today. First about 25 minutes into the game this appeared by Simon Bird from The Mirror (yes, I know... the mirror)
'McLeish furious with Ireland for not cutting out cross. Told him so then Ireland 2x shouted back F-off to his manager. #avfc'
But I'm sure I heard somebody saying the same thing happened at another game recently, Ireland shouting fuck off at McLeish mid-game. This time Ireland was taken off at half time and we come out looking like a different team..
Stan Collymore just tweeted this, and I presume it's being discussed on Talksport now ( I dont listen to it)
Couldn't believe how many Villa players were back chatting to McLeish through the game. Can't be very healthy..
Not good to hear, and I'm willing to hedge my bets on the players dissenting were the usual suspects.. but atm it is all rumours but two 'journos' have both mentioned it today. Suffice to say I would quite like a new manager if McLeish has lost the dressing room.
-
If it's the same problem players as last year Shoody then I think I'd rather back the manager.
-
Yeah good point actually. The entire defence needs to go. And Ireland if he is causing problems (hopefully once the defence have gone he wont make a problem)
-
I wouldn't tell McLeish to fuck off. That's all I know.
-
If its true , when Keane goes we could be struggling .I personally wouldn't be surprised if there is truth in it .
-
Tony Morley scored then gave the V sign with associated verbals to Ron Saunders. I wonder what the reaction would be to something like that today?
-
I hear that the coach driver fell ill and at half time Barry Bannan offered to drive the coach home.
It would explain the second half performance.
-
Stan collymore has said that N'Zogbia, Bent and Ireland all showed decent to Mcleish.
It will never work with him as our boss.
-
McLeish likes players being decent.
-
Not good but at least its a sign they do actually care. I remember Paul Merson saying how if Arsenal lost there was always a discussion among the players and staff which often kicked off. This was when Arsenal were winning things. When he came to us he was suprised how quickly the defeat was forgotten and they would just go home.
-
That's fair enough, but its a bit different when it is carried out during the game, surely?
The stuff last season about the rucks on the team bonding day was a bit worrying, it'd be worrying to think that is lingering.
-
That's fair enough, but its a bit different when it is carried out during the game, surely?
The stuff last season about the rucks on the team bonding day was a bit worrying, it'd be worrying to think that is lingering.
That's what worries me. In game decisions being doubted. It's not a matter of personal issue like it seemed to be with Houllier, here it seems to be of the tactical sort. While it seems worrying, I think McLeish's skin is too thick to really reconsider his strategy. I don't think we can afford to have Ireland unsettled again, especially with the exit of Keane imminent.
-
According to Twitter, McCleish took them all on, in a dressing room smackdown. Apparently, he beat a player so hard that he cried real tears.
-
According to Twitter, McCleish took them all on, in a dressing room smackdown. Apparently, he beat a player so hard that he cried real tears.
Warnock defo
-
N'zog just tweeted "first time in my life I'm not happy plsying football "
-
Oh dear.
First Time in my life im not happy playing football!!
- Nzogbia.
-
Looks likes the rumours are true! Nzogbia just tweeted
"first time in my life I'm not happy playing football!!!!"
Massive dressing room backlash against AM and the way he wants to play football
By the looks of things!
-
How does that equate to a 'massive dressing room backlash against AM'?
-
It's a shame he's unhappy. McLeish he's your 10mil pound man, figure it out.
-
I'm no miss marple but i think could be element of truth in it , don't think its cuz charlie don't like the weather
-
How does that equate to a 'massive dressing room backlash against AM'?
I wondered that as well. I mentioned in the match thread that he was as bad as Bent for blunting our attacks so did deserve to be taken off. Maybe the Booing was what he was on about as the Newc fans constantly did it
-
Not good and I doubt N'Zogs tweet will be the last we hear of this.
-
Maybe he's not happy because we lost.
-
If this leads to McLeish losing his job I'd fear for our future more than if he stays. Some of these players need to take a hard look at themselves.
-
Not good and I doubt N'Zogs tweet will be the last we hear of this.
we'll be hearing about this all week :-\
-
Maybe he's not happy because we lost.
I'm sure he been used to losing at previous club
-
Calm down everyone. It will all come out in the wash later.
-
Maybe he's not happy because we lost.
He's lost plenty of times with Wigan and yet this is apparently the first time in his life he's not been happy playing football.
-
Maybe he's not happy because we lost.
Most likely a combination of us losing and him being subbed.
Other than that: just another footballer who isn't smart enough to know when he should keep his tweets to himself.
Not good and I doubt N'Zogs tweet will be the last we hear of this.
No, I bet there will be numerous more tweets and message board posts about it.
-
Looks like he's removed it now
-
He's re tweeting pelters he's getting from fans
-
He's removed it but still retweeting people that are replying to him about it.
-
Some people should stop taking every word said by everyone so seriously.
-
Another reason for footballers not to be on Twitter now. They are easy to reach by normal fans.
-
I think N'Zog's tweet says more about him than it does the state of the dressing room.
-
I would be more pissed off if he came out and said that he was happy the way his football has been going
-
Maybe he's ambitious and thought we would be doing better.
-
I would be pissed off if i was a winger not allowed to play on the wing.
-
If twitter had been around thirty years ago, Tony Morley would have trended more often than Justin Bieber
-
If twitter had been around thirty years ago, Tony Morley would have trended more often than Justin Bieber
Surely you mean Tony Hadley? ;)
-
Just spotted this on www.eatsleepshitfootball.com
Dunne, Collins, McLeish were apparently involved in a tag team match at half time against 'bad guys' NZogbia, Ireland and Bannan. It ended when Ireland stormed out of the ring after he claimed Dunne had a handful of his tights claiming the pinfall that Peter Grant allegedly fast counted.
-
Scored his first goal for the club against QPR, provided a great cross for the equaliser only to be hauled off for Emile Heskey today. He plays Hutton though thick and thin, no wonder players ain't happy
-
Who can be happy with what's going on at the club at the moment? Frankly, the whole set up stinks and everyone can smell it.
-
Scored his first goal for the club against QPR, provided a great cross for the equaliser only to be hauled off for Emile Heskey today. He plays Hutton though thick and thin, no wonder players ain't happy
I literally just said the same thing to a buddy on twitter. It seems like the defense has 9 lives but our wingers get 60 minutes.
-
Twitter is wank. That is all.
-
If players dont agree with the manager, then drop them.
If they continue to back chat the manager, get rid of them.
McLeish is charge, if a player doesn't like it then rot in the reserves and leave when the window opens. End of.
-
Twitter is wank. That is all.
Totally.
-
I don't beleive McLeish is a bad manager, he's at a club that needs a clear out with no funds available.The players should stop bleating and play the football they are paid for.They let him down, it's a shame he hasn't been able to have a Pardew/MON impact but he should be judged next year in my view. by then he's hopefully expelled the bad eggs from the dressing room.
-
Scored his first goal for the club against QPR, provided a great cross for the equaliser only to be hauled off for Emile Heskey today. He plays Hutton though thick and thin, no wonder players ain't happy
I literally just said the same thing to a buddy on twitter. It seems like the defense has 9 lives but our wingers get 60 minutes.
If you look at most teams it's usually attacking players who get subbed because they spend more time running, especially wingers. How often do defenders get taken off as straight one-for-one changes except for when injured?
Whether our's should be starting in the first place is a different question, probably best answered with 'no'.
-
Twitter is wank. That is all.
Totally.
Agreed.
#thingsyouagreewith
-
Twitter is wank. That is all.
Totally.
Agreed.
#thingsyouagreewith
Twitter has its values though.. you can't argue the rate at which it presents 'news'.
-
Or unsubstantiated bullshit.
-
I really don't like Twitter, the hash tags, retweets and the awful layout but looking through N'zogbia's previous tweets and I don't think there's much to worry about, in one tweet in January he said he was happy here.
It's hardly a volcanic eruption of Joey Barton proportions.
In any case, whats different about a player unhappy with team tactics on twitter and coming out in the press and saying the same things?
-
Was the world really that much worse when you had to wait an hour to find out that someone had died?
-
Or unsubstantiated bullshit.
hence my quotes..
-
Gotcha.
-
You only have to look at coverage of the riots last summer to see how too much information is a dangerous thing. Or rather, the idiots with access to creating it are dangerous.
-
It just gives players a chance to make out they are less thick than they actually are and to make out they are the victim and fans usually fall for it. Other than that it is totally shit and is a microcosm of the toss of 'celebrity' culture we now live in. I am writing this for example shortly before I put my foot through the screen at that absolute prick Spence being on the TV.
-
Twitter is good, I love it, everyone is entitled to their own opinion on it.
On Mcleish, he is a proven bad manager, he will never succeed at Villa, he has never had the fans and now doesn't have the players.
We are a mess at the moment, Our owner is clueless, our CE is clueless and our manager is clueless. Recipe for disaster.
No player young or old will want to come to Villa under current management.
-
Let's see if his latest N'Zogism gets as much fuss:
Football goes up and down, massive challenge for me. What doesn't kill u make u stronger !! I have learned from it!
-
If it becomes McLeish vs the players he will lose. We can't afford a whole new team for a start. He's in a weak position because he has no pedigree and the fans (on the whole) don't like/rate him.
-
You only have to look at coverage of the riots last summer to see how too much information is a dangerous thing. Or rather, the idiots with access to creating it are dangerous.
You really fell hook line and sinker for that 'BBM and Twitter made the riots happen' bullshit didnt you?
They'd have happened anyway. Twitter was a scapegoat
-
You only have to look at coverage of the riots last summer to see how too much information is a dangerous thing. Or rather, the idiots with access to creating it are dangerous.
You really fell hook line and sinker for that 'BBM and Twitter made the riots happen' bullshit didnt you?
They'd have happened anyway. Twitter was a scapegoat
If you don't believe that these forms of modern day communication did not accelerate and tactically mobilise the riots then you are sadly mistaken.
-
You only have to look at coverage of the riots last summer to see how too much information is a dangerous thing. Or rather, the idiots with access to creating it are dangerous.
You really fell hook line and sinker for that 'BBM and Twitter made the riots happen' bullshit didnt you?
They'd have happened anyway. Twitter was a scapegoat
It's not about 'falling for' anything. The amount of disinformation and lies spread by Twitter and other social networking sites while the riots were taking place was immoral and dangerous.
-
Hence the number of arrests and convictions for incitement via the social network media.
-
Hence the number of arrests and convictions for incitement via the social network media.
Unfortunately, many of the problems were caused by people who weren't breaking any laws.
-
Let's see if his latest N'Zogism gets as much fuss:
Football goes up and down, massive challenge for me. What doesn't kill u make u stronger !! I have learned from it!
While it's good news he is feeling better.. I guess. It also seems like he is under the perception that he almost died?!
-
I bet more was spread via text message and word of mouth on the street. Riots happened before twitter etc but its much easier to prove a tweet happened than a text message or word of mouth. As its all open and easy to view.
but anyway, this isnt a topic about the riots.
-
It's quite simple players should be banned from using Twitter during the playing season, it can be easily policed by the clubs.
-
There's an old expression that goes something like "There's no smoke without fire!"
My biggest fear is not that McLeish has lost the players, but that the board will do nothing about it! (assuming they even notice, that is)
Worrying!
-
There's an old expression that goes something like "There's no smoke without fire!"
Darren Bent. Liverpool.
-
There's an old expression that goes something like "There's no smoke without fire!"
Darren Bent. Liverpool.
We're not talking about tabloids here though Dave, but point taken!
-
Twitter's here to stay, so we/ the clubs/ society had better get used to it. I really hope Barton goes down for contempt of court though. Both he and Twitter deserve it.
-
Martin O'Neill And Liverpool.
-
The thing about twitter is that its from the horses mouth so to speak. So when Nzog says, First time in my life im not happy playing football !!! You know its from him and word for word. If it appeared in a tabloid there would be doubt as to whether it was even said.
-
The thing about twitter is that its from the horses mouth so to speak. So when Nzog says, First time in my life im not happy playing football !!! You know its from him and word for word. If it appeared in a tabloid there would be doubt as to whether it was even said.
Unless its a false account of course ;)
-
From twitter:
CharlesNzo Charles N'Zogbia
All the lads are 110% behind the manager and spirit is great within he camp.
-
Another happy day at the funny farm.
The press will love this.
Well done all involved.
-
The thing about twitter is that its from the horses mouth so to speak. So when Nzog says, First time in my life im not happy playing football !!! You know its from him and word for word. If it appeared in a tabloid there would be doubt as to whether it was even said.
It can also be interpreted in any one of a dozen ways.
-
From twitter:
CharlesNzo Charles N'Zogbia
All the lads are 110% behind the manager and spirit is great within he camp.
When was that? must have missed that one..
-
The thing about twitter is that its from the horses mouth so to speak. So when Nzog says, First time in my life im not happy playing football !!! You know its from him and word for word. If it appeared in a tabloid there would be doubt as to whether it was even said.
Is what I was getting at ez, thanks.
It's the second paragraph of my post that worries me, but I guess I'm on my own with that, which is fair enough.
-
The thing about twitter is that its from the horses mouth so to speak. So when Nzog says, First time in my life im not happy playing football !!! You know its from him and word for word. If it appeared in a tabloid there would be doubt as to whether it was even said.
It can also be interpreted in any one of a dozen ways.
Indeed. Could be, don't like the manager, or not happy with my form. I notice Collymore has changed the wording to, First time N'Zogbia not happy playing for #avfc Sell sell sell.
-
Comment was made today during the match that Keane was going ape at the rest of the players for trying to go direct to Bent instead of using him, I saw that myself more than once and I didn't see one of the other player acknowledge him in gesture.
Said on here at least 3 times and its for all to see, the players are not communicating with each other, on the pitch and probably of, as mentioned the time will come when it does get sorted out in the dirty washing so to speak, IMO we will hit a longer bad patch and that's when the real decent will start.
I would be amazed if this was a club with a great dressing room atmosphere and the old one for all and all for one spirit, simply because its not in the stands either, and the players can sense that everytime they step out.
-
Twitter is wank. That is all.
Totally.
What actually is twitter???!!! I've never bothered to find out. And what is this Facebook thing all about too???
-
Twitter is wank. That is all.
Totally.
What actually is twitter???!!! I've never bothered to find out. And what is this Facebook thing all about too???
Shall we start with the Beatles?
-
Twitter is wank. That is all.
Totally.
What actually is twitter???!!! I've never bothered to find out. And what is this Facebook thing all about too???
Shall we start with the Beatles?
I was going to put a winky smilie thing on my last post but still working that out.......................
-
If only he actually tweeted that!
From twitter:
CharlesNzo Charles N'Zogbia
All the lads are 110% behind the manager and spirit is great within he camp.
-
;)
-
I just spotted Risso on there, photo 'n all
-
Whenever I watch a match there is somebody giving grief to the manager. Usually it's when they've been subsituted. Why oh Why...etc.
This is so normal!
-
From twitter:
CharlesNzo Charles N'Zogbia
All the lads are 110% behind the manager and spirit is great within he camp.
When was that? must have missed that one..
Aren't you subscribed to twitpremium?
-
There's an old expression that goes something like "There's no smoke without fire!"
My biggest fear is not that McLeish has lost the players, but that the board will do nothing about it! (assuming they even notice, that is)
Worrying!
They can't keep sacking the manager every time one of the precious little tits gets her knickers in a twist about something. We'd get through three managers a season.
-
This is his last tweet.
“@CharlesNzo: Football goes up and down, massive challenge for me. What doesn't kill u make u stronger !! I have learned from it!”
-
Underperforming players will always hide behind McLeish's unpopularity.
-
This is his last tweet.
“@CharlesNzo: Football goes up and down, massive challenge for me. What doesn't kill u make u stronger !! I have learned from it!”
Mcliesh must have nearly killed him then, and lets face it a football does go up and down, that's just what it does do, what he's probably learned is, "get me the phuk out of here"
;)
-
Underperforming players will always hide behind McLeish's unpopularity.
Maybe there in lies the problem. I have repeatedly revealed myself to be a McLeish admirer. Brave bloke, nice man but soething of an enigma. I want him to succeed with Aston Villa but his credibility is a problem.
The fans are divided on him. The players can hide behind that. This is why it was a bad appointment. It was always going to be such an uphill struggle.
-
I do agree that players shouldn't use Twitter. Partly because they will end up saying something stupid and partly because they will always be exposed to some morons who will do nothing but abuse them.
-
If players dont agree with the manager, then drop them.
If they continue to back chat the manager, get rid of them.
McLeish is charge, if a player doesn't like it then rot in the reserves and leave when the window opens. End of.
Entirely right - if a player has no respect for the manager they have no respect for this football club, if this turns out to be true rather than the usual tabloid shit stirring then Alex Mcleish gets my support in fucking these idiots off to the transfer list. I am utterly shocked by this, todays performance just like Wednesday's deserved 3 points it was only Krul's saves that prevented us racking up a cricket score. I assumed Ireland was injured and N'zogbia was tactical.
-
I wouldn't tell McLeish to fuck off. That's all I know.
I'd love to tell him to fuck off
-
N'Zog is probably guilty of putting his twitter finge into gear before his brain. They're not the brightest group of people, the poor dears.
-
If I was anyone who wasn't playing in defence, I'd be asking them, in the dressing room, what the fuck is going on?
If they feel they're not getting enough support, then they come out and say it, otherwise, they take it on the chin and get on with being told how it is and being encouraged to sort it out. And if Dunne or whoever gets upset by it, then tough shit.
People talk about wanting to get rid of Heskey and Beye (I know he's gone now) etc. for being shit, but maybe we should just get rid of the trouble makers first, as GH wanted to do. Take the hit and get rid.
-
Underperforming players will always hide behind McLeish's unpopularity.
Maybe there in lies the problem. I have repeatedly revealed myself to be a McLeish admirer. Brave bloke, nice man but soething of an enigma. I want him to succeed with Aston Villa but his credibility is a problem.
The fans are divided on him. The players can hide behind that. This is why it was a bad appointment. It was always going to be such an uphill struggle.
Bang on, this was a contentious signing for a manager, it still is and it always will be, the players know that, the fans know that, and if the players and staff know that, they will never give there heart and soul for the club, that is of course unless McLiesh achieves such a success at Villa the force of that pushes aside any dissent from all other doubters, and its not just Villa, we have seen it at other clubs where a manager has been appointed against the wishes of the fans, then he does really well, fans put up with him until things turn sour and the knife goes right in and he's gone.
Problem is we no longer seem to have a chairman that is engaged at the club (at least as he used to be) its almost as though him and O'Neil where lovers, they fell out, separated, and he just can't return to the matrimonial home, its just not the same, to many spoiled memories, so we'll just rent it out for the time being and stick someone else in on a short term tenancy. ::)
-
Got back around 30 minutes ago and really felt we deserved more out todays game. Some real decent football played at times as well. Certainly some positives but on the other hand veryvery frustrating result.
This may be interesting for those who havent already read.
Mcleish explaining half time sub.
http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2012/02/05/aston-villa-alex-mcleish-explains-why-he-substituted-stephen-ireland-at-half-time-against-newcastle-united-97319-30271621/
-
Our club will never move forwards until the bad eggs are removed. Fuck the lot of em
-
Got back around 30 minutes ago and really felt we deserved more out todays game. Some real decent football played at times as well. Certainly some positives but on the other hand veryvery frustrating result.
This may be interesting for those who havent already read.
Mcleish explaining half time sub.
http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2012/02/05/aston-villa-alex-mcleish-explains-why-he-substituted-stephen-ireland-at-half-time-against-newcastle-united-97319-30271621/
Do you think the ankle knock is true?
-
Our club will never move forwards until the bad eggs are removed. Fuck the lot of em
yep biggest mistake Lerner ever made was not letting GH fuck the trouble makers off. You can't have the tail wagging the dog
-
We can all clearly see that certain players aren't playing to the top of their games. They didn't under Houllier and they're still not.
Yes they're moany, spoilt, overpaid, bastards, but lets be honest, all too many players these days are. Many clubs have to put up with players who are a bunch of twats. Christ, John Terry must be a bloody nightmare for some managers.
However, under the right management, we have a squad who should be at least 10 points better off right now, than what it is. Martin O Neill rubbed a few players up the wrong way, but even they respected him and how he went about things. He also got results. It's not just down to the money he spent. He makes players perform to the top of their game. Sunderlands squad is worse than us, but look at how much better they look as a team, and how good their form has been under our former boss.
Houllier- past it. Wrong man in the wrong job.
McLeish- Not a Premier League manager. Not by any stretch.
It's plain as day that players aren't giving enough for this manager. They might be a bunch of pillocks who should have a bit more decency, but every other club in the top flight has to deal with that. For me, the problem lies with McLiesh. It's a big, big problem. If not for 3-4 really god awful sides, then we'd be struggling big time.
-
Not sure if it's been posted elsewhere but apparently Charles Nzogbia tweeted" For the first time in my life I'm not happy playing football" He then quickly removed it but it was seen by a hundred odd followers
-
really really stupid thing to post. I hope the club ban him from twitter and fine him. In fact ban twitter altogether
-
really really stupid thing to post. I hope the club ban him from twitter and fine him. In fact ban twitter altogether
A bit harsh no..? He's a human too, he can post his feelings.
-
One of the biggest problems we have at the club is the giant comfort zone some of the players, and the manager, have fallen into because they know they are unlikely to be replaced under anything but the most urgent of circumstances.
Dunne, Warnock and Hutton HAVE to be better than their performances are suggesting, otherwise they would never have made it to professional level. They're consistently poor because they haven't got anyone breathing down their necks and they know it.
Likewise, McLeish knows that he won't be sacked any time soon because the owner can't afford it. But when the manager knows he can't drop his players, and the players know the manager can carry on making the same mistakes, it makes for a foul atmosphere - especially when the team is consistently shipping goals and not picking up enough points. This one's going to churn and churn.
-
There probably has been a few things said but this is where McLeish can show one of his greatest managerial attributes.
Namely the ability to avoid major fall outs with players but retaining authority.
Houllier, and to an extent MON, would assert their authority with the blunt instrument of dropping and ignoring players and thus wasting playing resources. The worst culprit for avoidable public fights with players was John Gregory.
If a player is really out of order, then ship them out but Mcleish's statement that he isn't so small minded as to sub a player for a heat of the moment comment from the pitch seems good sensible management to me.
-
really really stupid thing to post. I hope the club ban him from twitter and fine him. In fact ban twitter altogether
A bit harsh no..? He's a human too, he can post his feelings.
If the mail wanted to interview him he'd have to get permission. I don't see any difference with twitter. He should shut the fuck up and concentrate on playing better. I had some sympathy for him today because of the bizarre substitution but he's just come over now as a kid throwing his toys out the pram
-
You only have to look at coverage of the riots last summer to see how too much information is a dangerous thing. Or rather, the idiots with access to creating it are dangerous.
You really fell hook line and sinker for that 'BBM and Twitter made the riots happen' bullshit didnt you?
They'd have happened anyway. Twitter was a scapegoat
If you don't believe that these forms of modern day communication did not accelerate and tactically mobilise the riots then you are sadly mistaken.
People organised a very good riot in Bristol in 1982 before the Sky, the internet AND mobile phones. People organised an even better one in Bristol in 1831 before the telegraph the telephone and the modern press. There were moral panics written about both of these events written by idiots trying to disguise the causes (gross economic inequalitiees between the rich and poor) by blaming modern technology/the state of education/a lack of religious guidance/the disrespect of the younger generation.
Whatever it is its just people talking. Same as it ever was.
-
Underperforming players will always hide behind McLeish's unpopularity.
Same as the owner, hence the reason for appointing him.
-
The trouble with Villa is since about 1997 we haven't been big enough to b a top club, but we haven't been small enough to get relegated. As such in the main, mid table reigns.
I know the game has changed,but we've had opportunities in the past to kick on and we've always fell at the final hurdle / last piece of the jigsaw.
I think we have to realise that we won't win anything for the foreseeable future.
Maybe investng heavily in the academy, will be our new way of operating to try and gain a competitive advantage. But this my friends will take time.
-
We can all clearly see that certain players aren't playing to the top of their games. They didn't under Houllier and they're still not.
Yes they're moany, spoilt, overpaid, bastards, but lets be honest, all too many players these days are. Many clubs have to put up with players who are a bunch of twats. Christ, John Terry must be a bloody nightmare for some managers.
However, under the right management, we have a squad who should be at least 10 points better off right now, than what it is. Martin O Neill rubbed a few players up the wrong way, but even they respected him and how he went about things. He also got results. It's not just down to the money he spent. He makes players perform to the top of their game. Sunderlands squad is worse than us, but look at how much better they look as a team, and how good their form has been under our former boss.
Houllier- past it. Wrong man in the wrong job.
McLeish- Not a Premier League manager. Not by any stretch.
It's plain as day that players aren't giving enough for this manager. They might be a bunch of pillocks who should have a bit more decency, but every other club in the top flight has to deal with that. For me, the problem lies with McLiesh. It's a big, big problem. If not for 3-4 really god awful sides, then we'd be struggling big time.
You must be watching a different team to me. The squad is where it deserves to be in the league, just compare subs bench today against a club that is about 10 points ahead, a general lack of quality throughout the whole club.
-
Dunne should have been given the push as soon as he gave that interview slagging off GH for upsetting his little friend stephen and claiming our recovery last season was all down to him ignoring GH instructions.. I can't believe that got past the club frankly. But then you can get pissed and have a stand up fight with the coaching staff and not get punished currently. If they do that to a manager like GH then they won't have any qualms about AM
-
We can all clearly see that certain players aren't playing to the top of their games. They didn't under Houllier and they're still not.
Yes they're moany, spoilt, overpaid, bastards, but lets be honest, all too many players these days are. Many clubs have to put up with players who are a bunch of twats. Christ, John Terry must be a bloody nightmare for some managers.
However, under the right management, we have a squad who should be at least 10 points better off right now, than what it is. Martin O Neill rubbed a few players up the wrong way, but even they respected him and how he went about things. He also got results. It's not just down to the money he spent. He makes players perform to the top of their game. Sunderlands squad is worse than us, but look at how much better they look as a team, and how good their form has been under our former boss.
Houllier- past it. Wrong man in the wrong job.
McLeish- Not a Premier League manager. Not by any stretch.
It's plain as day that players aren't giving enough for this manager. They might be a bunch of pillocks who should have a bit more decency, but every other club in the top flight has to deal with that. For me, the problem lies with McLiesh. It's a big, big problem. If not for 3-4 really god awful sides, then we'd be struggling big time.
You must be watching a different team to me. The squad is where it deserves to be in the league, just compare subs bench today against a club that is about 10 points ahead, a general lack of quality throughout the whole club.
They started with Leon Best up front - even Ivanhoe beats him in a game of top trumps.
-
It will all blow over.
-
AM has walked into a club which was not a happy place when he arrived, there are lots of issues to sort out, it would take any maager a season to get to grips with this. Unless he decides gets backed both in terms of getting rid and bringing in new players he is on a hiding to nothing.
He has to clear out Dunne Colins Warnock Nzogbia and bring in a better right back than Hutton.
-
He brought Hutton in.
-
He brought Hutton in.
Yep he did, I guess it was the classic panic buy. My guess is that he is walking a titght rope with Dunne and Collins, he dare not upset them, has no real back up and they dont give a shit.
-
Cuellar would do nicely for me.
-
AM has walked into a club which was not a happy place when he arrived, there are lots of issues to sort out, it would take any maager a season to get to grips with this. Unless he decides gets backed both in terms of getting rid and bringing in new players he is on a hiding to nothing.
He has to clear out Dunne Colins Warnock Nzogbia and bring in a better right back than Hutton.
Zog will be fine in a side that plays positively. He was trying to be positive today. The subs were negative except for Gardner.
I'd be pissed off if I was him.
I am pissed off and I'm me!
As a few have said on the post-match thread we seem to resort to humphing it far too quickly instead of playing our way out of our own half. Keane's only been here a few weeks and he can see it which is why he was having a go today!
He has shown some of our players that they don't work hard enough or simply ain't good enough and they don't like it.
The defence has gotta go!
-
As I have commented before on this issue Alex McLeish made the mistake of announcing to the world that all the players slates were wiped clean when he took over.
Houllier had identified the shit stirrers and if he had stayed they would be long gone.
Anybody taking over any organization would be a fool to ignore what had gone on in the past. You often find this in domestic situations when a woman is told that the new love of her life is in reality a shit and a bounder. She always thinks she can change him.
-
As I have commented before on this issue Alex McLeish made the mistake of announcing to the world that all the players slates were wiped clean when he took over.
Houllier had identified the shit stirrers and if he had stayed they would be long gone.
Anybody taking over any organization would be a fool to ignore what had gone on in the past. You often find this in domestic situations when a woman is told that the new love of her life is in reality a shit and a bounder. She always thinks she can change him.
To be honest, Brian, I thought he was right to do that. He was clearly in a position where he wasn't going to be able to buy himself out of trouble, so he had to get something out of what he had - had to.
If he'd had the choice, I reckon he would have followed Houllier's line, but he didn't have any other choice.
To be fair, he's got (some) good results out of Stephen Ireland when he had been written off.
I think he needs to get through to the summer, and assess the situation, and if there are players he knows are trouble, then he'll have the chance to move them on. Mid-season as we are now, he's lumbered a little bit.
-
Thats how I read it Paulie, He was appointed late and given no budget, he must have thought a squad full of Internationals and some promissing younsters would be enough. In terms of keeping us in the PL it probably is. We were saying last season that a massive clear out is needed it still is. I have no idea if he will get backed in the summer or if he realises the extent of the problem.
-
Got back around 30 minutes ago and really felt we deserved more out todays game. Some real decent football played at times as well. Certainly some positives but on the other hand veryvery frustrating result.
This may be interesting for those who havent already read.
Mcleish explaining half time sub.
http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2012/02/05/aston-villa-alex-mcleish-explains-why-he-substituted-stephen-ireland-at-half-time-against-newcastle-united-97319-30271621/
Do you think the ankle knock is true?
I do mate.
about 10 mins in he went in for a challange in there half and looked like he'd picked up a knock and then about the 15=20th min he went down when there player was down but didnt have any treatment.
i hope it true tbh as Ireland's put in some cracking performance last 2 months.
-
Thats how I read it Paulie, He was appointed late and given no budget, he must have thought a squad full of Internationals and some promissing younsters would be enough. In terms of keeping us in the PL it probably is. We were saying last season that a massive clear out is needed it still is. I have no idea if he will get backed in the summer or if he realises the extent of the problem.
Thats the thing, I don't think he should have been given the job, and I don't think he's doing a particularly good job, but if he's in the job, he has got to be supported.
To that extent, I feel sorry for him lumbered with the current squad, which at face value is not strong enough, but if you scratch beneath the surface is seemingly suffering from discontent.
-
I thought McLeish's interview just on MOTD was very telling. Basically saying the overpaid pampered wankers don't work hard enough.
-
Our dressing room is shambloic. Our players are not paying proper respect to our Club. No fan of Eck but I think he is being let down big time by this bunch of unprofessional multi-millionares. He knows who they are and instead of forgiving them as he did at the start of his sting he needs to boot them out NOW.
-
I agree with you Paulie. He had no choice but to stick with the players he had inherited. They were a fact of life. What I think he did wrong was to trumpet the fact that their sins were now all absolved. It was a public binning of what Houllier had been trying to do and a get out of jail card for the malingerers. I think a more neutral announcement which in effect said I've got my beady eye on you lot would have done more to prevent the flare up of player power we may well be witnessing.
-
People like Dunne think it's ok to pick up £40k a week looking about as fit as I am and heading the occasional ball away as their contribution towards winning the game.
-
I agree with you Paulie. He had no choice but to stick with the players he had inherited. They were a fact of life. What I think he did wrong was to trumpet the fact that their sins were now all absolved. It was a public binning of what Houllier had been trying to do and a get out of jail card for the malingerers. I think a more neutral announcement which in effect said I've got my beady eye on you lot would have done more to prevent the flare up of player power we may well be witnessing.
Dunno about that, Bri. I think a lot of them are horrible, feckless wasters who need to be put to the sword, but he at least had to give them the chance to flourish.
it's disturbing to hear stuff about Ireland and N'Zogbia getting involved in spats now, just when they have started to show some promise.
-
I am warming to the manager I have to say. He has proved that he can get us playing going forward, and the defence is not his fault IMO. Hutton has been poor yes, but not cost us that many goals compared to the other 3. He was stuck with Warnock, Collins and Dunne, has managed to get the footballer out of Ireland and NZogbia is starting to look better, while Keane was a terrific signing. I hope he sees us over the line with 45 ish points similar to last season, and dismantles the side.
In the mail on the 1st after the window closed he said the squad needed an overhaul but it was dependent on offers for what we have. I am bold enough to say I reckon he can get us up top 8-6 again with a bit of backing. New back 3 with Hutton improving his form and a proper defensive midfield player, get Keane in full time and next season could be ok.
-
I am warming to the manager I have to say. He has proved that he can get us playing going forward, and the defence is not his fault IMO. Hutton has been poor yes, but not cost us that many goals compared to the other 3. He was stuck with Warnock, Collins and Dunne, has managed to get the footballer out of Ireland and NZogbia is starting to look better, while Keane was a terrific signing. I hope he sees us over the line with 45 ish points similar to last season, and dismantles the side.
In the mail on the 1st after the window closed he said the squad needed an overhaul but it was dependent on offers for what we have. I am bold enough to say I reckon he can get us up top 8-6 again with a bit of backing. New back 3 with Hutton improving his form and a proper defensive midfield player, get Keane in full time and next season could be ok.
Provided we can muster another 4 wins this season. Next 6 games are crucial.
-
True. Going to Norwich last day for a result.... been there before a couple of times I recall.
-
True. Going to Norwich last day for a result.... been there before a couple of times I recall.
If we're not out of it by then we deserve to go down.
-
True. Going to Norwich last day for a result.... been there before a couple of times I recall.
If we're not out of it by then we deserve to go down.
No! The teams who FINISH the season in the bottom three deserve to go down - when every team has played all the others home and away. And the team that FINISH top always have, and always will be, deserving champions.
-
People keep defending McLeish because he inherited a poor squad, what about the teams above us like Norwich, Swansea, Stoke, Sunderland? Do they have better squads? We're 5 points behind Sunderland now and their back four includes the likes of Phil Bardsley.
-
did you see that shambolic throw in between Warnock and Dunne in stoppage time . Sums up some of the players to me.
-
did you see that shambolic throw in between Warnock and Dunne in stoppage time . Sums up some of the players to me.
I've mentioned it before, but the thing that sums up most of our defence (and some of our other players) is the lack of reaction to mistakes. Terry and Ferdinand might be twats most of the time but they both do their nut when their teams concede, especially if it is because of mistakes.
-
Got back around 30 minutes ago and really felt we deserved more out todays game. Some real decent football played at times as well. Certainly some positives but on the other hand veryvery frustrating result.
This may be interesting for those who havent already read.
Mcleish explaining half time sub.
http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2012/02/05/aston-villa-alex-mcleish-explains-why-he-substituted-stephen-ireland-at-half-time-against-newcastle-united-97319-30271621/
Do you think the ankle knock is true?
I do mate.
about 10 mins in he went in for a challange in there half and looked like he'd picked up a knock and then about the 15=20th min he went down when there player was down but didnt have any treatment.
i hope it true tbh as Ireland's put in some cracking performance last 2 months.
Was just about to comment and say the same thing. he also got challenged by the half way line and went down a bit heavy.
-
People keep defending McLeish because he inherited a poor squad, what about the teams above us like Norwich, Swansea, Stoke, Sunderland? Do they have better squads? We're 5 points behind Sunderland now and their back four includes the likes of Phil Bardsley.
All different from us though in their own way. Newly promoted teams generally have a cohesiveness and team spirit that gets them results that defy their actual quality. Stoke are 100% Pulis' team, precision engineered to play his unique brand of shite football.
O'Neill in fairness is different and I agree there. He is one of a few managers who can genuinely get a limited squad to play above their station. But then he left us in the shit.
I don't actually think the issue is to do with the quality of the squad, it's entirely down to the character (or lack of). McLeish inherited a team that had showed a terrible combination of trouble making, fragile confidence, and complete lack of bottle the previous season, but without its best player by a mile. If he has chosen not to replace the main culprits then the consequences are on his head, but do we really think he is the problem there?
-
People keep defending McLeish because he inherited a poor squad, what about the teams above us like Norwich, Swansea, Stoke, Sunderland? Do they have better squads? We're 5 points behind Sunderland now and their back four includes the likes of Phil Bardsley.
No. We actually have a pretty decent squad. So are we under achieving or over achieving?
We actually don't win many games at all - six league matches all season; one a month. Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan, Wolves, Norwich and Chelsea. We've shown we can beat the poorest teams in the league, fail to do so against most of the rest.
-
I know I'm pretty tired of my club paying lambhearted useless gobshites like Richard Dunne a fortune for absolutely nothing (unless you count anguish).
Sometimes I wonder if it would be worth getting relegated to cleanse this club of all the unwanted gristle.
-
I know I'm pretty tired of my club paying lambhearted useless gobshites like Richard Dunne a fortune for absolutely nothing (unless you count anguish).
Sometimes I wonder if it would be worth getting relegated to cleanse this club of all the unwanted gristle.
You are not the first to think this Maz. I don't think we are there yet-but if the summer doesn't change things then I think everyone has a view that they would rather it got worse in the short term to get better in the long.
Trouble is, although we have successfully rebuilt the club after relegation, there are no guarantees that things wouldn't get worse.
We do need things to change though.
-
From what I have read and certainly by McLeish's comments I reckon the half time team talk went something like this
McLeish - "Stevie, why the f~#k did you not close the guy down. What the f@*k were you playing at, how many time have I f##+ing told you, we defend at this football club first, not attack you jessie"
Ireland - "But boss, my ankle is really sore and I couldn't run, don't be cross with me, I'm not as bad as Hutton or Warnock"
McLeish - "If your ankles that f@*king bad then you shouldn't be on the pitch, Barry, get warmed up"
-
I know I'm pretty tired of my club paying lambhearted useless gobshites like Richard Dunne a fortune for absolutely nothing (unless you count anguish).
Sometimes I wonder if it would be worth getting relegated to cleanse this club of all the unwanted gristle.
I just can't see how getting relegated can ever been seen as a positive! If we want these guys out then let's just pay up their contracts, accept low offers for them or just wait until their out of contract - either option costs less then relegation.
This summer could prove VERY interesting.
-
We can all clearly see that certain players aren't playing to the top of their games. They didn't under Houllier and they're still not.
Yes they're moany, spoilt, overpaid, bastards, but lets be honest, all too many players these days are. Many clubs have to put up with players who are a bunch of twats. Christ, John Terry must be a bloody nightmare for some managers.
However, under the right management, we have a squad who should be at least 10 points better off right now, than what it is. Martin O Neill rubbed a few players up the wrong way, but even they respected him and how he went about things. He also got results. It's not just down to the money he spent. He makes players perform to the top of their game. Sunderlands squad is worse than us, but look at how much better they look as a team, and how good their form has been under our former boss.
Houllier- past it. Wrong man in the wrong job.
McLeish- Not a Premier League manager. Not by any stretch.
It's plain as day that players aren't giving enough for this manager. They might be a bunch of pillocks who should have a bit more decency, but every other club in the top flight has to deal with that. For me, the problem lies with McLiesh. It's a big, big problem. If not for 3-4 really god awful sides, then we'd be struggling big time.
I am sick to death of hearing people still talk about O'Neill as though he was some sort of management genius. Yes we finished 6th three times but we ran out of steam at the end of every season because he had his favorites and wouldn't use the squad. Remember when we were 12 points clear in 3rd place and flying in all competitions when he decided to drop half the team for european game that they were gagging to play in because we were on a roll, then they blew a 2 goal lead at home to Stoke and it all went wrong from there. Not the work of a footballing genius. Want more examples ? He is the man who let Gary Cahill leave and purchased Dunne, Collins, Knight and Davies. If you look at the players he signed (which are the basis of the current squad) most were poor, some were average and a few were brilliant. He was not sacked HE WALKED OUT ON US, shall I say that again, HE WALKED OUT ON US and 5 days before the start of the season that for me is one of the biggest crimes every committed against out club, nearly 2 years on we are still dealing with the crap he left behind and a bunch of players some of who it would appear do want to play for any other manager, get rid of them I say.
Rant over, but for what its worth McLeish will never work, I would love it to but it wont because he will never win the fans over. The sooner Randy gets rid of him and Faulkner the better.
Still some fans wanted Coyle or Martinez !!!!!
-
However, under the right management, we have a squad who should be at least 10 points better off right now, than what it is.
That would put us on 38 points and joint 7th with Liverpool. Although I'd agree we've underachieved, this squad is not that good.
AM's biggest fault with us is not sorting the defence out.
-
I think this will all blow over in the next few weeks. The dressing room is at a low due to results not going their way. Also, the players know that theres a lot of unrest with some fans so will try and upset things more so that the manager gets singled out hence heaping more pressure on him and the board to get rid.
Is getting rid of the manager the answer? I really dont know. Who would be his replacement? Plus avfc isn't looking very appealing to any manager at the moment anyway.
There are a nucleus of players that need to be sold in the summer with probably Warnock, Dunne and Collins at the top of the list. I feel sorry for Nzogbia, I mean, I would be pissed off too if I was subbed for Emile fecking Heskey!! People are forgetting the Zog saved our blushes last game by scorer a quality goal and also helped us back into the game yesterday by setting up Keane to score.
The manager should know better than to keep selecting the same players who are off form i.e. Warnock and Hutton! Surely, Clark should be given another go at left back. Yes he had a torrid time against Wolves but so did the whole team in the first half of that game.
Regarding twitter, its not as bad as people think it is. It can be used for useful things i.e. promoting your business etc. Yes, footballers need to be careful when using it but some footballers are using it responsibly i.e. Rio Ferdinand, Michael Owen and more closer to home - Marc Albrighton and Gary Gardner so to say footballers should be banned is wrong. Its all about education and i'm sure, Nzogbia has probably learnt not to air those sorts of comments again. Only time will tell.
As for Mcleish, I admire him for taking the job as he knew that there would a massive unrest with the fans and he would have to do alot to win them over but i still do not believe that he is 100% the right man for the job. He continues to play the likes of Hutton and Warnock and becuase of their poor performances, players like Ireland and Nzogbia seem to be getting a telling off for not helping them out enough.
Shaun Teale has tweeted this morning saying the following:-
"McLeish we didnt stop the cross and we have to. Problem is Alex those two full backs havent stopped anything all season smell the coffee"
At least we are seeing an ex pro saying something that the media and other ex pro's are not saying! The truth and not shifting the blame to others.
-
However, under the right management, we have a squad who should be at least 10 points better off right now, than what it is.
That would put us on 38 points and joint 7th with Liverpool. Although I'd agree we've underachieved, this squad is not that good.
AM's biggest fault with us is not sorting the defence out.
i think its one thing knowing what the problem is, its another doing something about it with no money. I've said this before but everything he's tried this season in midfield (Clarke, Jenas, Keane, Heskey) has been about getting the pressure off the defence whether thats keeping the ball better or just helping them out. Its worked on occasions but he's really going to struggle to make anything of that defence now it hasn't got the sort of players it had in front of it under MON.
-
MON has got 22/30 points with Steve Bruce's Sunderland.
he also won a tribuneral hearing against the club for constructive dismissal - hardly "walking out".
-
MON has got 22/30 points with Steve Bruce's Sunderland.
he also won a tribuneral hearing against the club for constructive dismissal - hardly "walking out".
He didn't win a tribunal - the parties settled amicably, that's not the same thing.
He did walk out though - it is hard to see how leaving with zero notice five days before the start of the season is anything but walking out.
-
I'd go so far as to say that if you look at the debacle of last season, loss of Young and continued presence of bellends like Dunne and Warnock on the teamsheet McLeish has got a lot more than many would expected out of the squad.
-
MON has got 22/30 points with Steve Bruce's Sunderland.
he also won a tribuneral hearing against the club for constructive dismissal - hardly "walking out".
He didn't win a tribunal - the parties settled amicably, that's not the same thing.
He did walk out though - it is hard to see how leaving with zero notice five days before the start of the season is anything but walking out.
He did walk out on his job. There is not argument there.
The reasons for him walking out, now that you can argue about
-
Sounds like this is fast becoming a MON topic. might as well add my 2p's worth. MON, imo, very good manager who can get the best out of players.Nob head and totally out of order for walking out on us 5 days before the season started but stuff behind the scenes contributed to that hence the amicably settled court case which he seemed to be more happy about than AVFC. Would I have MON instead of Eck? hmmm, yes I would as I know with these bunch of players would be at least 10 points better off and looking at securing a place in the Europa league.
-
However, under the right management, we have a squad who should be at least 10 points better off right now, than what it is.
That would put us on 38 points and joint 7th with Liverpool. Although I'd agree we've underachieved, this squad is not that good.
AM's biggest fault with us is not sorting the defence out.
i think its one thing knowing what the problem is, its another doing something about it with no money. I've said this before but everything he's tried this season in midfield (Clarke, Jenas, Keane, Heskey) has been about getting the pressure off the defence whether thats keeping the ball better or just helping them out. Its worked on occasions but he's really going to struggle to make anything of that defence now it hasn't got the sort of players it had in front of it under MON.
For someone with a reputation as a defensive coach, I'd simply expect him to get more out of the defenders he's got than he has. Just working with them in training and get the organisation right, etc. He hasn't done that and it's continually cost us points this season. Lets not forget that we're talking about players who have multiple caps and formed part of good defences in the past.
-
MON has got 22/30 points with Steve Bruce's Sunderland.
he also won a tribuneral hearing against the club for constructive dismissal - hardly "walking out".
I don't remember him being sacked either, he spent £120m on mostly dross which we are now left with. Yes he won a constructive dismissal case which means he had a good lawyer doesn't mean what he did was right. Constructive dismissal means your employer made it so difficult to do your job that you were forced to leave, If O'Neill thought being asked to lower the wage bill and continue to finish in the top 6 was too difficult then he had a case, personally I think the fact that during his time he spent £82M net on transfers and had a state of the art training centre built was enough to deliver the 5 year plan of Champions League football
So he has gone into a club and given them a lift he isn't the first to do that and won't be the last. Don't get me wrong I think O'Neill is a good manager just not the genius some think he is and people defend the fact that he left, I repeat HE WALKED OUT ON US, he wasn't sacked, if he had any feeling towards the club or supporters he would have at lease left at the end of the previous season or just done the job for another year then left, he walked out 5 days before the season started for that he lost all my respect and I find it unbelievable that some fans still defend him
-
MON has got 22/30 points with Steve Bruce's Sunderland.
he also won a tribuneral hearing against the club for constructive dismissal - hardly "walking out".
I don't remember him being sacked either, he spent £120m on mostly dross which we are now left with. Yes he won a constructive dismissal case which means he had a good lawyer doesn't mean what he did was right. Constructive dismissal means your employer made it so difficult to do your job that you were forced to leave, If O'Neill thought being asked to lower the wage bill and continue to finish in the top 6 was too difficult then he had a case, personally I think the fact that during his time he spent £82M net on transfers and had a state of the art training centre built was enough to deliver the 5 year plan of Champions League football
So he has gone into a club and given them a lift he isn't the first to do that and won't be the last. Don't get me wrong I think O'Neill is a good manager just not the genius some think he is and people defend the fact that he left, I repeat HE WALKED OUT ON US, he wasn't sacked, if he had any feeling towards the club or supporters he would have at lease left at the end of the previous season or just done the job for another year then left, he walked out 5 days before the season started for that he lost all my respect and I find it unbelievable that some fans still defend him
That's the first time I've actually understood a Doctors handwriting.
-
MON has got 22/30 points with Steve Bruce's Sunderland.
he also won a tribuneral hearing against the club for constructive dismissal - hardly "walking out".
He didn't win a tribunal - the parties settled amicably, that's not the same thing.
He did walk out though - it is hard to see how leaving with zero notice five days before the start of the season is anything but walking out.
LOL got a bit carried away with my point, I forgot that he didn't actually win the constructive dismissal case !
-
I can't and won't defend his walking out, but his record while here is something that will always create debate. £82m net over 4 years is not that great, when compared to the spending of those we were trying to catch. And for that £82m net you have circa £50m value in three players who have since left. The wages, of course, is another story and effectively detracts from the value of his signings as when we want to move them on nobody will pay them as much. See Beye, Habib.
-
Sounds like this is fast becoming a MON topic. might as well add my 2p's worth. MON, imo, very good manager who can get the best out of players.Nob head and totally out of order for walking out on us 5 days before the season started but stuff behind the scenes contributed to that hence the amicably settled court case which he seemed to be more happy about than AVFC. Would I have MON instead of Eck? hmmm, yes I would as I know with these bunch of players would be at least 10 points better off and looking at securing a place in the Europa league.
Using that argument we should have appointed Alan Pardew - I am sure that would have gone down well
-
Sounds like this is fast becoming a MON topic. might as well add my 2p's worth. MON, imo, very good manager who can get the best out of players.Nob head and totally out of order for walking out on us 5 days before the season started but stuff behind the scenes contributed to that hence the amicably settled court case which he seemed to be more happy about than AVFC. Would I have MON instead of Eck? hmmm, yes I would as I know with these bunch of players would be at least 10 points better off and looking at securing a place in the Europa league.
Using that argument we should have appointed Alan Pardew - I am sure that would have gone down well
But MON comes with track record unlike Pardew. nevermind. MON is gone and we shouldnt keep harping on about him
-
I can't and won't defend his walking out, but his record while here is something that will always create debate. £82m net over 4 years is not that great, when compared to the spending of those we were trying to catch. And for that £82m net you have circa £50m value in three players who have since left. The wages, of course, is another story and effectively detracts from the value of his signings as when we want to move them on nobody will pay them as much. See Beye, Habib.
MON is doing at Sunderland now (although these are early days still, lest we forget, Sunderland were bothering the top six not much more than a year ago when we had Bent off them) pretty much what he did when he came to us, and that is what he is good at. He's getting a team hanging around the arse end of the mid table bunch towards the top end of it.
Whatever your opinion on MON, it is hard to deny he's good at that.
The thing he struggles with, in my opinion, is moving a club on from that. To break the top four you need to know your stuff in the transfer market and play it cleverly (look at Spurs), and you need to be on top of your game tactically.
Those, in my opinion, are the two areas where MON is weakest
Being a great manager is also about leaving a legacy, and on that front he fails, leaving us as he did with a bloated but uneven squad with far too many ageing, average players on big money. That, incidentally, is exactly what he did at Celtic.
-
Sounds like this is fast becoming a MON topic. might as well add my 2p's worth. MON, imo, very good manager who can get the best out of players.Nob head and totally out of order for walking out on us 5 days before the season started but stuff behind the scenes contributed to that hence the amicably settled court case which he seemed to be more happy about than AVFC. Would I have MON instead of Eck? hmmm, yes I would as I know with these bunch of players would be at least 10 points better off and looking at securing a place in the Europa league.
Using that argument we should have appointed Alan Pardew - I am sure that would have gone down well
But MON comes with track record unlike Pardew. nevermind. MON is gone and we shouldnt keep harping on about him
Your right, just winds me up when people mention him. I need to get over it - lol
-
£82m of dross such as Young, Milner, Downing.
Regarding him walking out lets speculate for a second that he was verbally promised £xm a season to spend and that when he sat down at the start of one season that promised money wasn't available. He then states he thinks he'll struggle to push the club forward without that spend and decides his position is untenable. Both parties go to tribuneral and is settled (with MON happier of the two). This wouldn't be walking out in my opinion.
-
Sounds like this is fast becoming a MON topic. might as well add my 2p's worth. MON, imo, very good manager who can get the best out of players.Nob head and totally out of order for walking out on us 5 days before the season started but stuff behind the scenes contributed to that hence the amicably settled court case which he seemed to be more happy about than AVFC. Would I have MON instead of Eck? hmmm, yes I would as I know with these bunch of players would be at least 10 points better off and looking at securing a place in the Europa league.
Using that argument we should have appointed Alan Pardew - I am sure that would have gone down well
Amazing to think that when Hughton left and Pardew was appointed, many Geordies were venting their spleens on phone ins and the internet. Villa fans would have given Pardew as good a welcome as McLeish. They must sell a lot of humble pie in the Sports Direct concourse areas, the Ashley out campaign has gone silent and the Green and Yellow anti Glazer protests at Utd - you see when all is said and done you can be the antichrist but it doesn't matter as long as you are winning football matches.
-
I can't and won't defend his walking out, but his record while here is something that will always create debate. £82m net over 4 years is not that great, when compared to the spending of those we were trying to catch. And for that £82m net you have circa £50m value in three players who have since left. The wages, of course, is another story and effectively detracts from the value of his signings as when we want to move them on nobody will pay them as much. See Beye, Habib.
MON is doing at Sunderland now (although these are early days still, lest we forget, Sunderland were bothering the top six not much more than a year ago when we had Bent off them) pretty much what he did when he came to us, and that is what he is good at. He's getting a team hanging around the arse end of the mid table bunch towards the top end of it.
Whatever your opinion on MON, it is hard to deny he's good at that.
The thing he struggles with, in my opinion, is moving a club on from that. To break the top four you need to know your stuff in the transfer market and play it cleverly (look at Spurs), and you need to be on top of your game tactically.
Those, in my opinion, are the two areas where MON is weakest
Being a great manager is also about leaving a legacy, and on that front he fails, leaving us as he did with a bloated but uneven squad with far too many ageing, average players on big money. That, incidentally, is exactly what he did at Celtic.
Nail hit firmly on the head - well said
Back to the original point, I don't think he has lost the dressing room as I am not sure he had it in the first place. Because he doesn't have the full backing of the fans, the players will always be able to find sympathy for their moaning.
-
Sounds like this is fast becoming a MON topic. might as well add my 2p's worth. MON, imo, very good manager who can get the best out of players.Nob head and totally out of order for walking out on us 5 days before the season started but stuff behind the scenes contributed to that hence the amicably settled court case which he seemed to be more happy about than AVFC. Would I have MON instead of Eck? hmmm, yes I would as I know with these bunch of players would be at least 10 points better off and looking at securing a place in the Europa league.
Using that argument we should have appointed Alan Pardew - I am sure that would have gone down well
But MON comes with track record unlike Pardew. nevermind. MON is gone and we shouldnt keep harping on about him
Your right, just winds me up when people mention him. I need to get over it - lol
The only thing that winds me up is that no ex pro or journo or pundit ever comments on the fact he walked out on us 5 days before the season. None of them ever say what a bad move that was and how could he do that to fans who showed their loyalty towards him. instead, they keep praising him. oh well. some things will never change.
Regarding this whole dressing room unrest lark, I really dont think there is one. Players wont always agree with the managers decisions on and off the field. Ireland swearing at Eck is something that probably happens on a regular basis but it being highlighted even more. Even with Nzog tweeting that for the first time he is not happy playing football, how do we really know its to do with Eck (it may well be and all the signs are there)? How do we not know for sure if he is suffering from depression? Its possible. Collymore went through it. Other players have been through it. Im not saying he is suffering from it, all im saying that it could be a possiblity hence why his performances have been inconsistent this season. just a thought thats all.
-
£82m of dross such as Young, Milner, Downing.
Regarding him walking out lets speculate for a second that he was verbally promised £xm a season to spend and that when he sat down at the start of one season that promised money wasn't available. He then states he thinks he'll struggle to push the club forward without that spend and decides his position is untenable. Both parties go to tribuneral and is settled (with MON happier of the two). This wouldn't be walking out in my opinion.
It was £82M net he actually spent £120 of which £30M was on those 3 you mentioned. The rest was on average player on big money and while we are on the subject Downing hardly set the world alight did he, remember we signed him when he was injured and after one decent season he was off.
Yes lets speculate, at the start of his reign he is told he can spend £25M a season for 5 seasons to get us in the Champions League. After 4 years he has spent that and we haven't qualified, the wage bill is out of control and half the squad never play because he wont use them, he asks for more money and is told he has had enough. Throws his toys out of the pram and then realizes how it looks so decides to take the club to court. I would call that walking out and anyone who thinks he didn't leave up the creek without a boat let a lone a paddle is very naive inho. The situation we are currently in started the day he left
Anyway as stated he has gone and thats the end of it we should all move on.
-
Dunne should have been given the push as soon as he gave that interview slagging off GH for upsetting his little friend stephen and claiming our recovery last season was all down to him ignoring GH instructions.. I can't believe that got past the club frankly. But then you can get pissed and have a stand up fight with the coaching staff and not get punished currently. If they do that to a manager like GH then they won't have any qualms about AM
Players and coaching staff have fights all the time at successful clubs.
Houllier, who let us not forget was a terrible manager who treated the club like it was a small time retirement home, was a very highly paid manager who oversaw the complete collapse of our defence from one of the best the season before. The overpaid drunken tossers were the best defence Villa had in over 10 years. The revisionism on here is alarming at this stage.
For all we know Cowans was every bit in the wrong in that incident. Maybe that's
why there wasn't further action taken.
One thing MON was good at was ensuring every player on the pitch knew their role. We were superbly organized at set piece time both defensive and attacking. There has been communication problems with the 4 managers since he left. McLeish spent yesterday screaming at the players. His heart is in the right place but players should know what's expected of them before the game. Ranting and raving at everyone isn't doing anyone any favours.
If the Stephen you are referring to is the former Irish international then to use a cliche on here you are truly talking through your arse.
-
Before we signed them we knew N'Zogbia was a sulky twat and Ireland a bit of a loon and McLeish was right to have a pop at them yesterday.To top it we then have that well known 100 percenter and all round model pro Collymore giving us his opinion on it.Why anyone takes any notice of him is beyond me, but the top and bottom of it is if N'Zogbia and Ireland can't take a bollocking then they shouldn't be near the first team.
-
I disagree with you about GH. Dont forget, he, just like AM, was going through a transitional phase. Gh would have made us a very good team as he would have bombed out the deadwood and the over paid bellends at the club who were clearly a disruption. His scouting system is top notch and we would have seen the likes of Cabaye and Demba Ba in a villa shirt this season.
I have a few friends who are liverpool fans and they always said he will make your team difficult to beat once he has made his signings and he will develop the youth which I think would have been true as he was using them quite a fair bit last season. Look at what he developed at LFC - Stevie G, Owen, Carragher. He would have done the same here with the likes of Clark, Albrighton, Baker, Gardner.
People questioned his mangerial style but why are Liverpool fans still singing his name and why are the likes of Gerrard and Owen always praising him?
-
You should never ignore a poo poo
-
This is the most important season for us since Randy took over. If we can stay up (I think we will), we could be poised for a serious advance next season. A new look defence, a more solid midfield and Bent and Gabby leading the line would see us back challenging the top six. We just need to stay up and then clear out the deadwood and bring in £20m worth of quality at the back.
-
he also won a tribuneral hearing against the club for constructive dismissal - hardly "walking out".
No he didn't walk out and whilst we are at it didn't snow in Birmingham on Saturday afternoon/evening either.
-
I disagree with you about GH. Dont forget, he, just like AM, was going through a transitional phase. Gh would have made us a very good team as he would have bombed out the deadwood and the over paid bellends at the club who were clearly a disruption. His scouting system is top notch and we would have seen the likes of Cabaye and Demba Ba in a villa shirt this season.
I have a few friends who are liverpool fans and they always said he will make your team difficult to beat once he has made his signings and he will develop the youth which I think would have been true as he was using them quite a fair bit last season. Look at what he developed at LFC - Stevie G, Owen, Carragher. He would have done the same here with the likes of Clark, Albrighton, Baker, Gardner.
People questioned his mangerial style but why are Liverpool fans still singing his name and why are the likes of Gerrard and Owen always praising him?
Gerard houllier in my opinion is an arsehole.Those players you are talking about him developing were 18/19 by the time Houllier rolled into Anfield.The coaches already at Anfield were the ones who developed them.He basically ruined Michael owen as a teenager.Houllier's biggest problem has always been his ego.He likes to tell everyone it was his players that won the CL in 2005, but fails to mention that those same players finished 37 points behind the champions Chelsea.His transfer record was also diabolical.Take a look at the players he signed and the money he spunked on them.
His international career, well he managed to blame his failure on Ginola for that.Onto Lyon and he inherited a side that had won the championship four or five years on the trot and he managed to fcuk them up.Then he turns up at Villa,tells us that we belong in mid table despite the fact we'd had three successive 6th place finishes.Takes us to Anfield where he has a love in with the bin dippers and then decides that Aston Villa football club cannot compete in a FA cup tie at Man City.
I hold Houllier in the same esteem i have for Billy McNeill, difference being that old Gerard is a better bullshitter
-
We all know the defence needs a clear out - but realistically how is this going to happen? Dunne, Warnock and Collins are all on 4 year contracts which don't finish til August next year. There's been talk of Collins going to Blackburn, but who is really likely to buy Dunne or Warnock who are 32 and 30 respectively? And AMC won't sell Hutton as he bought him and won't want to admit he was wrong. Whatever we think about Houllier he would have cleared them out when they had some potential for moving elsewhere but now I fear we're stuck with them for another season. Worrying
-
I'd let Collins and Warnock go but would keep Dunne. He could provide some key advice to Clark and any centre back we bring in. Dunne is still probably our best defender. Just watch him have a good Euro 2012. He has something to offer, even if not as a regular starting centre back anymore.
-
Maybe he's not happy because we lost.
He said its the first time playing football he's been unhappy.
Surely he's used to us losing by now.
-
I have to disagree Irish Villain. He has nothing to offer. He's a lummox who has no appetite for anything other than pies now.
He'd be the first player out this summer if I had my way. And Warnock and Collins can follow.
As for N'Zogbia, I doubt this is his first time being unhappy playing football. Presumably he wasn't amazingly happy when engineering moves away from Newcastle and probably Wigan.
That said, he created a goal, was playing alright and was subbed for Heskey. I think I'd be non plussed too.
-
Dunne has been a liability in many recent games - how many penalties has he conceded? Was it him at Chelsea?, Bristol Rovers, then Arsenal? Then the missing or weak headers that led to goals for QPR and Newcastle. He plays fine for about 95% of most games, but undoes all the good work by dropping at least one almighty bollock. We need to go abroad and find the next Mellberg/Laursen/Bouma types and ship these dinosaurs out.
-
I have to disagree Irish Villain. He has nothing to offer. He's a lummox who has no appetite for anything other than pies now.
He'd be the first player out this summer if I had my way. And Warnock and Collins can follow.
As for N'Zogbia, I doubt this is his first time being unhappy playing football. Presumably he wasn't amazingly happy when engineering moves away from Newcastle and probably Wigan.
That said, he created a goal, was playing alright and was subbed for Heskey. I think I'd be non plussed too.
Bang on about N'Zogbia. He'd also had an excellent second half against QPR.
McLeish only needed to ask himself one question: Who is more likely to score or create a goal, Heskey or N'Zogbia?
We all know the answer to that one methinks.
-
Dunne, Collins, Cuellar, Warnock, Hutton - I'd bin the lot and start again but doubt it will be that easy.
-
It will have to be done. We cant go another season with this defence.
So for the 4th time in 6 years or something we need an entirely new back 4 and probably a couple of back ups too. If the funds are not there for them we could be in big trouble.
A midfield general, a back 4 and a creative experienced forward (Keane?) are musts.
-
Regarding him walking out lets speculate for a second that he was verbally promised £xm a season to spend and that when he sat down at the start of one season that promised money wasn't available. He then states he thinks he'll struggle to push the club forward without that spend and decides his position is untenable. Both parties go to tribuneral and is settled (with MON happier of the two). This wouldn't be walking out in my opinion.
The only problem I have with that scenario is this discussion would not have taken place 5 days before the season started. So, if it was untenable then both parties, for the good of the club, should have said so early summer and allow us to recruit a new manager properly.
-
I can't and won't defend his walking out, but his record while here is something that will always create debate. £82m net over 4 years is not that great, when compared to the spending of those we were trying to catch. And for that £82m net you have circa £50m value in three players who have since left. The wages, of course, is another story and effectively detracts from the value of his signings as when we want to move them on nobody will pay them as much. See Beye, Habib.
MON is doing at Sunderland now (although these are early days still, lest we forget, Sunderland were bothering the top six not much more than a year ago when we had Bent off them) pretty much what he did when he came to us, and that is what he is good at. He's getting a team hanging around the arse end of the mid table bunch towards the top end of it.
Whatever your opinion on MON, it is hard to deny he's good at that.
The thing he struggles with, in my opinion, is moving a club on from that. To break the top four you need to know your stuff in the transfer market and play it cleverly (look at Spurs), and you need to be on top of your game tactically.
Those, in my opinion, are the two areas where MON is weakest
Being a great manager is also about leaving a legacy, and on that front he fails, leaving us as he did with a bloated but uneven squad with far too many ageing, average players on big money. That, incidentally, is exactly what he did at Celtic.
What I class that as is 'squad management', which basically amounts to sustainability and juggling things around. His lack of rotation comes into this also, as does his unnecessary spending with the kids coming through.
It's a fault, which the way he could motivate and get results hid to a degree.
-
I said it on the match thread so I'll say it here too. I don't think Hutton has been that bad recently (Not saying he's been great) but he's basically been a bit better than a 3m fullback (that's what he cost right?) and we can't really ask much more than that.
I certainly think there are other priorities than replacing him next summer.
-
Tony Morley scored then gave the V sign with associated verbals to Ron Saunders. I wonder what the reaction would be to something like that today?
i remember seeing that, was that Dynamo Berlin away??? would have loved to have been a fly on the dressing room wall after that.
-
Hutton has improved because Carlos is great at covering for him. I'd be tempted to give Carlos a contract extension, he certainly did a job on Ba yesterday, in fact, he's superb at man marking. I remember him putting Tevez in his pocket too. Add to that his passing has most certainly improved, something I think he's worked on since GH was here.
-
O'Neill is the turd polisher extraordinaire. Give him a bunch of players at random and he will get more out of them collectively than most of his peers. Ask him to do the clever stuff like budget properly, think long term, navigate the transfer market and it all falls apart. Which is ironic when you consider he sees himself as intellectually wasted on football.
-
I said it on the match thread so I'll say it here too. I don't think Hutton has been that bad recently (Not saying he's been great) but he's basically been a bit better than a 3m fullback (that's what he cost right?) and we can't really ask much more than that.
I certainly think there are other priorities than replacing him next summer.
Agreed.
There have been plenty of players write off too soon by some and I hope and expect him to become one of them.
-
I said it on the match thread so I'll say it here too. I don't think Hutton has been that bad recently (Not saying he's been great) but he's basically been a bit better than a 3m fullback (that's what he cost right?) and we can't really ask much more than that.
I certainly think there are other priorities than replacing him next summer.
I agree he has shown a lot of improvement in the last 2 games.
-
I said it on the match thread so I'll say it here too. I don't think Hutton has been that bad recently (Not saying he's been great) but he's basically been a bit better than a 3m fullback (that's what he cost right?) and we can't really ask much more than that.
I certainly think there are other priorities than replacing him next summer.
I agree he has shown a lot of improvement in the last 2 games.
Having said that, I'd still be inclined to bid for Clyne in the summer as he'll be available cheaply, possibly even out of contract. He'd be a good reserve to have to keep Hutton on his toes and maybe replace him if he reaches his potential.
-
Surely this thread should be called 'The Changing Room'.
'The Dressing Room' makes it sound like it's a theatrical area for luvvies applying make up, throwing hissy fits because the director has shouted at them because they're shite and throwing their toys out of their pram.
Oh yes, right you are. Carry on.
-
I went up to Newcastle on saturday (for the night out) and come back down to mayhem! Unrest in the camp players not applauding the fans. Feckin twitter causing us more problems. My view on the game did ok going forward defence as we all know is a calamity waiting to happen. Richard Tonne has to go on (on a diet). Cuellar isnt the centre back we thought. Warnock is hopelessly out of form. I actually spoke to Hutton in Touchwood (solihull) on friday believe me he cares! Thought he looked better. McLeish has to clamp down on any dissent whoever the culprit is. If I had my way we would be left with just Gabby as the senior player! I could make a case for getting rid of everyone else. finally not clapping us on sunday is a feckin disgrace. Our fans were up at all hours from everywhere to get to Newcastle for 13.30 on a sunday and we still took 1300 up. Fantastic support and they dont deserve it! McLeish cares. He made a mistake he should have brought Weimann on instead of Heskey but thats a small issue. Gazza Gardner has to play every game along with Clark who should be made captain. I know bannan tries the 'big' pass all the time but christ at least he attempts things. Get rid of the 'poison' in the summer.
-
I went up to Newcastle on saturday (for the night out) and come back down to mayhem! Unrest in the camp players not applauding the fans. Feckin twitter causing us more problems. My view on the game did ok going forward defence as we all know is a calamity waiting to happen. Richard Tonne has to go on (on a diet). Cuellar isnt the centre back we thought. Warnock is hopelessly out of form. I actually spoke to Hutton in Touchwood (solihull) on friday believe me he cares! Thought he looked better. McLeish has to clamp down on any dissent whoever the culprit is. If I had my way we would be left with just Gabby as the senior player! I could make a case for getting rid of everyone else. finally not clapping us on sunday is a feckin disgrace. Our fans were up at all hours from everywhere to get to Newcastle for 13.30 on a sunday and we still took 1300 up. Fantastic support and they dont deserve it! McLeish cares. He made a mistake he should have brought Weimann on instead of Heskey but thats a small issue. Gazza Gardner has to play every game along with Clark who should be made captain. I know bannan tries the 'big' pass all the time but christ at least he attempts things. Get rid of the 'poison' in the summer.
Same as us.
-
[O'Neill] sees himself as intellectually wasted on football.
Yes, I'm amazed he didn't find time to root out Maddie, Lord Lucan and Shergar while he was out of the game.
-
[O'Neill] sees himself as intellectually wasted on football.
Yes, I'm amazed he didn't find time to root out Maddie, Lord Lucan and Shergar while he was out of the game.
None of them can play rightback.
-
[O'Neill] sees himself as intellectually wasted on football.
Yes, I'm amazed he didn't find time to root out Maddie, Lord Lucan and Shergar while he was out of the game.
None of them can play rightback.
That's never stopped him before.
-
Maddie was definitely left back.
Edit. I know it"s wrong. Sorry.
-
Richard Tonne made me literally laugh out loud in the office.
-
Glad you like it Kippax. He should be now known as Richard Tonne.
-
[O'Neill] sees himself as intellectually wasted on football.
Yes, I'm amazed he didn't find time to root out Maddie, Lord Lucan and Shergar while he was out of the game.
None of them can play rightback.
Actually they're all really good right backs, thats why he couldn't find them
-
Maddie was definitely left back.
Edit. I know it"s wrong. Sorry.
Don't apologise - it was open goal begging to be put away.
-
She probably went to join them for dinner but they centre back.
-
Careful
-
Maddie was definitely left back.
Edit. I know it"s wrong. Sorry.
I know it's wrong too, but it made me smile. Apologies from me too.
-
I think some of the issue is how deep our centre backs drop at times, mainly due to having the turning circle of the titanic and no pace.
We need 2 good centre backs, interesting to see who goes down in the summer, and who might be available elsewhere. Dann and someone like Bassong might be worth a punt.
-
I'd be looking at N'Zogbia's mate Samba. And it's been too long since we had a Scandinavian at the back so go and have a look at who the latest Viking lunatic off the line is.
-
Glad you like it Kippax. He should be now known as Richard Tonne.
I tend to call him Dunney. Because it's Australian for toilet. Which is what he's been recently.
Totally agree about Vikings Mazrim. Thor and Odin for CB.
-
From the Daily Mail by Neil Moxley and Colin Young
Alex McLeish and Charles N'Zogbia were involved in a furious dressing-room bust-up following Aston Villa's defeat at Newcastle on Sunday.
The France international and his manager had a face-to-face confrontation in front of startled team-mates after the 2-1 defeat.
The 25-year-old winger made his feelings known on Twitter afterwards, saying he had never been so unhappy playing football.
McLeish heads into Sunday's home clash against Barclays Premier League leaders Manchester City insisting he has the 'bottle' to see through the job, amid the threat of fans' protests and dressing-room unrest.
A march by disgruntled supporters may not have received much, if any, widespread backing, but of equal concern is the fall-out following last week's defeat at Newcastle.
McLeish blamed the media for highlighting Stephen Ireland's reaction to being substituted but the reason for £9.5million signing N'Zogbia's post-match tweet can now be explained.
Defeat by Roberto Mancini's side would stretch Villa's run of Premier League home games without a win to seven, equalling their worst-ever sequence.
Their last victory at Villa Park came against Norwich in November. Yet in the face of worrying statistics and potential protests, McLeish remained defiant, saying: 'I'm going to stay true to myself.
'The protests are out of my control. It's a modern-day fashion. There was talk of a protest against Arsene Wenger a couple of weeks ago, so I'm in pretty good company. At the same time, it's not something I'm going to enjoy because we all like to be popular.
'I expected a rollercoaster and I knew I'd have to have a thicker skin than usual. But I believe I've got the bottle to handle this because I've experienced it before in my managerial career.'
Support for the manager remains rock solid from owner Randy Lerner and chief executive Paul Faulkner.
And McLeish reiterated his commitment, saying: 'I knew the parameters when I walked in and I'm with Randy all the way on his vision for Villa.'
My favourite bit is defintely this bit:
but the reason for £9.5million signing N'Zogbia's post-match tweet can now be explained.
As it doesn't explain a fucking thing other than mashing in a story about Nzogbia's tweet (from last week) and a soundbite from Eck about the protest and making a story out of 2 half-stories. There is no explanation of the row, or any reference to 'a source close to the player/club said..' all it says is that there was a row and the (unquoted) players were 'startled.'
Not to say it didnt happen as the Mail gave this their ever-reliable 'EXCLUSIVE' tag (/sarcasm).
Some people already jumping saying that this has been leaked by somebody in the club, Nzogbia or his agent. Which is possible, but it seems very much like 2 half-baked stories mashed together (especially given the double by-line by Moxley and Young). Kept until the Saturday paper and then released as if its new info.
But thats just my opinion..
-
As far as I am concerned, the Manager has said what he has needed to say.
The papers have been stirring the shit as usual.
-
The Daily Hate in vintage form there.
-
This is exactly why the club should ban players using twitter. Plays totally into the media's hands
-
This is exactly why the club should ban players using twitter. Plays totally into the media's hands
Correct.
-
I hope McLeish tears into the rest of the team too. They need a kick up the arse. The problem is some players cant take it and instead of producing a match winning performance afterwards they rant like spoilt kids.
-
Bout time we had someone with the balls to ship up or ship out our bad apples ..... Honing on too long now
-
What's disappointing about N'Zogbia is the fact that he's a McLeish signing so really it's his like we should have been building our new era side around.
So far, have we seen enough from him? I think he now might need to be shipped out too. He's so selfish with the ball. He will shoot from any angle no matter how well positioned one of our players will be for a pass.
-
What's disappointing about N'Zogbia is the fact that he's a McLeish signing so really it's his like we should have been building our new era side around.
So far, have we seen enough from him? I think he now might need to be shipped out too. He's so selfish with the ball. He will shoot from any angle no matter how well positioned one of our players will be for a pass.
Not sure it's selfishness IV. It seems more like lack of composure / intelligence to me. He reminds me of Shaun Wright Phillips sometimes, all a bit headless chicken.
-
http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2607332,00.html (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2607332,00.html)
More support for the manager.
-
Rumours circulating about the players having a little bit of a backlash versus McLeish today. First about 25 minutes into the game this appeared by Simon Bird from The Mirror (yes, I know... the mirror)
'McLeish furious with Ireland for not cutting out cross. Told him so then Ireland 2x shouted back F-off to his manager. #avfc'
But I'm sure I heard somebody saying the same thing happened at another game recently, Ireland shouting fuck off at McLeish mid-game. This time Ireland was taken off at half time and we come out looking like a different team..
Stan Collymore just tweeted this, and I presume it's being discussed on Talksport now ( I dont listen to it)
Couldn't believe how many Villa players were back chatting to McLeish through the game. Can't be very healthy..
Not good to hear, and I'm willing to hedge my bets on the players dissenting were the usual suspects.. but atm it is all rumours but two 'journos' have both mentioned it today. Suffice to say I would quite like a new manager if McLeish has lost the dressing room.
Rumours circulating about the players having a little bit of a backlash versus McLeish today. First about 25 minutes into the game this appeared by Simon Bird from The Mirror (yes, I know... the mirror)
'McLeish furious with Ireland for not cutting out cross. Told him so then Ireland 2x shouted back F-off to his manager. #avfc'
But I'm sure I heard somebody saying the same thing happened at another game recently, Ireland shouting fuck off at McLeish mid-game. This time Ireland was taken off at half time and we come out looking like a different team..
Stan Collymore just tweeted this, and I presume it's being discussed on Talksport now ( I dont listen to it)
Couldn't believe how many Villa players were back chatting to McLeish through the game. Can't be very healthy..
Not good to hear, and I'm willing to hedge my bets on the players dissenting were the usual suspects.. but atm it is all rumours but two 'journos' have both mentioned it today. Suffice to say I would quite like a new manager if McLeish has lost the dressing room.
Then you said this:
Yeah good point actually. The entire defence needs to go. And Ireland if he is causing problems (hopefully once the defence have gone he wont make a problem)
So one minute the Manager has to go, then it is Ireland.
-
I hope McLeish tears into the rest of the team too. They need a kick up the arse. The problem is some players cant take it and instead of producing a match winning performance afterwards they rant like spoilt kids.
Surely thats the art of motivation though?
Some people respond well to a kick up the arse, others react positively to an arm around the shoulder. (Mike Brearly's book "The art of captaincy" has it pretty nailed on).
-
@Dave Mc Lark Five
If the manager has lost the dressing room he should go.
That said, if the only people he has lost is The Usual Suspects (ie. Dunne, Collins, Warnock) and Ireland then they should be shipped out.
Stand by both of my posts. Them 3/4 are trouble makers and have been for a long time now, if its just them they should go, for the good of the club as they were a problem under Houllier and apparently were turning against MON towards the end too. Houllier and McLeish maybe could both do much better without that lot.
That said, if his own signings ie. NZogbia and Hutton have turned against him as well as some of the other players, and our youth prospects (ie Bent, Gabby, Bannan etc etc etc) then McLeish should go.
Its one thing having players that should be getting sold no matter what in the summer anyway turn against him. But we cant afford to replace an entire team.
-
He should go because of where we are in the league not because of where he came from.
-
@Dave Mc Lark Five
If the manager has lost the dressing room he should go.
That said, if the only people he has lost is The Usual Suspects (ie. Dunne, Collins, Warnock) and Ireland then they should be shipped out.
Stand by both of my posts. Them 3/4 are trouble makers and have been for a long time now, if its just them they should go, for the good of the club as they were a problem under Houllier and apparently were turning against MON towards the end too. Houllier and McLeish maybe could both do much better without that lot.
That said, if his own signings ie. NZogbia and Hutton have turned against him as well as some of the other players, and our youth prospects (ie Bent, Gabby, Bannan etc etc etc) then McLeish should go.
Its one thing having players that should be getting sold no matter what in the summer anyway turn against him. But we cant afford to replace an entire team.
Dunne has said he supports McLeish so he either does or is being two faced.
The stories of what happened last season were another matter. Problem is, with this ridiculous transfer window system, it is difficult to ship people out. You can only drop them but still pay £60000 per week. I suppose you could suspend players without pay for physical assaults such as were reported, but you have to consider the onward sale value of the player.