McLeish could be the manager to take this club forward

[Monty]

The fundamental problem for me with McLeish is that I really don't think he understands what goes on in front of his eyes as well as he should. After the Swansea game, where he'd seen them beat us with, among other things, obsessive possession, trying to keep the ball at all costs, he says the reason we didn't win is because we passed it backwards and sideways too much (many of those backwards passes went long and we lost the ball, I seem to remember). Even after losing, he doesn't take the lessons away of how we lost.

On many occasions I have heard journalists, football writers, retired managers, even some of the more eloquent retired players talk about how badly things are run in football, how people like Steve Bruce make it to the top of management without actually having any idea what they're doing. I worry that we're in one of these situations.

[Merv]

That's my concern too, Monty. I'm not sure we have a manager who actually understands football*. He can pick a team, sure (even if certain players seem to be square pegs in round holes) and maybe even provide a decent team-talk, but I worry that he's pretty limited. Not sure he can get a team playing well, progressing: if he can analyse a game, put right what's gone wrong. He's come across as fairly nonplussed and resigned after matches in interviews (giving the 'not much I can do about it' line), which worries me.

* That might sound daft, but I know what I mean!

[Monty]

Agreed completely, Merv. Here are a couple of articles with some very telling pieces of information about Brendan Rodgers and his methods.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/jan/17/norwich-and-swansea-rising-stars?INTCMP=SRCH

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/swansea-city/9013702/Swansea-manager-Brendan-Rodgers-aims-to-convert-long-ball-believers.html

No-one's me that we don't have some players capable of implementing these strategies with some good training. It seems worryingly clear that Rodgers and his methods are the present and the future, and that McLeish and his practices are fast becoming the outmoded past.

[not3bad]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/swansea-city/9013702/Swansea-manager-Brendan-Rodgers-aims-to-convert-long-ball-believers.html

Swansea ... do play a greater percentage of passes in their own half than any other side in the Premier League but it is all about being patient. To those raised on the orthodoxy of direct football this is baffling stuff.

A lot of the crowd at the Villa would certainly be impatient with this philosophy!

[Axl Rose]

Mcleish has been the catalyst for the first time in my life,of losing interest with Villa (slightly). We need him out, we need a manager like Paul Lambert or Rodgers,or even Di Canio. It would result in better football, players who we don't really like being moved out, and more satisfied Villa fans. But that is just my opinion however..

[garyshawsknee]

I heard the other day that Martinez took a long time to win the Swansea fans over with his new style of football,Rogers has carried this on to a higher level.

In a way Houllier was trying this,I think towards the end we were starting to warm to his style as the team were gradually improving.

[Merv]

A lot of the crowd at the Villa would certainly be impatient with this philosophy!

Probably would, initially. But I suppose if your fans have been schooled on what to expect, because they've seen the team playing a certain way for a couple of seasons and have seen it lead to success, and if those fans know they have a coach/manager with a strategy in mind and is beginning to put that strategy into place, then they learn to react differently.

[Monty]

Part of that, N3BB is that their players aren't as good as other teams who play possession football. Barca play mostly in the opposition half because they're that damn good, but Swansea are forced back more. We would, you think, do something more in the middle. The crucial thing, though, is that the hoof is the absolute, absolute last resort, that the keeper is another footballer so you're playing with 11 men rather than 10.

Exactly, Merv GSK. The club had started to move in the right direction, patiently, but went very much back on this with the appointment of McLeish. The trouble is, I'm not too sure if Faulkner and Lerner really see the chasm of difference between the two appointments.

[pauliewalnuts]

Exactly, Merv GSK. The club had started to move in the right direction, patiently, but went very much back on this with the appointment of McLeish. The trouble is, I'm not too sure if Faulkner and Lerner really see the chasm of difference between the two appointments.

I think Lerner and Faulkner see it in terms of personalities, which is wrong. Pretty much every time I've heard them talk about a manager of ours, they've concentrated on how personable and easy to talk to they are, which is fine, but that alone is nothing like enough.

I think you are right, for example, that Lerner would not understand the contradiction (in football terms) in appointing Houllier for a year, then thinking about Martinez, but then going for McLeish.

I also have a suspicion that Randy looked at Moyes, thought "I like him, gets decent results on no resources", but couldn't have him, so opted for McLeish as a "grow your own" Moyes.

[Monty]

You're exactly right, Paulie, but it's even more than just the Moyes thing. They see the success of Ferguson and may even think it's as simple as "Scottish, vaguely angry". I'm being facetious, of course, but maybe on a subconscious level that level of thinking may have snuck in.

It is not beyond consideration, however, that Lerner may have bought into the MON "cult-of-personality" style of management - not much tactics, not much training, hell not much football, but heaps of personality and inter-personal emphasis. This may be the reason that: a) they didn't seem to know what they were looking for in a manager philosophically, as MON barely had one; and b) that they put so much emphasis on the personality of a manager. The 'Premier League experience' rubbish could also be a hangover from MON's British-centric approach.

[Chris Smith]

I heard the other day that Martinez took a long time to win the Swansea fans over with his new style of football,Rogers has carried this on to a higher level.

In a way Houllier was trying this,I think towards the end we were starting to warm to his style as the team were gradually improving.

I think the improvement came when we reverted to what had worked well under O'Neill. I think there's a lot of revisionism going on about Houllier's time, the atmosphere around the club was poisonous with almost weekly stories of unrest and the manager repeatedly putting his foot in it. It's easy to dismiss this as just a couple of bad apples but if Gabby was reviewing his position it suggests more deep seated issues.

[Concrete John]

I also have a suspicion that Randy looked at Moyes, thought "I like him, gets decent results on no resources", but couldn't have him, so opted for McLeish as a "grow your own" Moyes.

There may be quite a bit of truth in that.

My own feelings are that AM is trying to play a more expansive game, but largely isn't getting it right so far.  That's could be due to the players not being good enough or him not being good enough to instigate that style properly, but in all likelihood it's a combination of both.

[Monty]

That's just it, John. When AM says it's a myth that he's a defensive manager and that he wants to play more attacking football, I believe him. I just don't think he understands how to do it.

[Mr Diggles]

The irksome 'Premier League experience' is the worst statement the management team made on their searches for new managers. If possession football of the like played by Swansea, Arsenal, etc is the future, then endeavouring to bring in managers so firmly rooted in old style tactics (4-4-2, hoof it if in doubt, high intensity etc) then you will inevitably get a throw back team rooted in the past.

To move forward and unlock the talent in our players we really needed fresh ideas. Whether that came from a manager based in Britain (in whatever league) or from outside the UK makes no matter. It was, as has been said, the philosophy that was important. That is what will inspire the players, That is what will capture the hearts and minds of the fans, and bring them back into Villa Park even during a recession.

[Merv]

That's just it, John. When AM says it's a myth that he's a defensive manager and that he wants to play more attacking football, I believe him. I just don't think he understands how to do it.

He doesn't. What was telling, earlier in the season, after discussing one particular game (can't recall which), McLeish made reference to his attempts to play an attacking style and said something about a previous game in which he'd fielded 'four strikers'. I was confused, then realised he meant one his line-ups which had Bent up front, with N'Zogbia, Gabby and Heskey behind. In a way, four strikers (stretching it a bit with N'Zogbia) but I thought: 'is that how he thinks we can play a more attacking game?' By sticking strikers across his midfield and wide?