Villa being discussed at length on Talksport right now

[garyshawsknee]

The Plan B or whatever it is now is that AM will be asked to do the same thing as Houllier wanted but at a much more manageable pace (for the club). As fans we'll just have to bear with it.

 Thanks for ruining Christmas(Shudders at your last sentence tv!)

[Chris Smith]

Fair enough that you didn't like Houllier, Chris, but you say yourself a third of a season isn't enough to judge a manager. Given that Houllier didn't arrive until a few games in and had to leave very prematurely for health reasons, he didn't have anything like a full season, and certain not the all important summer transfer window.

Just don't think you're being consistent, is all...

Sam, it's not to do with liking him or not. I was supportive during the season and wouldn't have wanted him sacked after finishing mid table. What is bugging me though is the revisionism, there were plenty of games last season every bit as bad as anything we've seen this time and he had better players. That's what happens when a team is in transition, yet people aren't giving AM the same benefit.
 
I am just commenting on what happened, not ifs, buts and maybes. I'll do the same this time, when I feel there is enough evidence.

[pauliewalnuts]

Can't agree there, Toronto.

McLeish screams "traditional British manager" - I don't think for a moment he's going to do the same thing as Houllier wanted, they're two totally different managers.

For a start, Houllier wanted us to keep possession of the ball, whereas McLeish seems allergic to it. I also find it hard to believe he'll have clamped down on the boozing and lazing culture in the way that Houllier wanted to - it's certainly very suspicious that we've had a flow of players telling us how much they hated Houllier, and McLeish is much more like it.

Under Houllier, we actually had recognisable, nameable scouts. Jeff Vetere was putting our European scouting network into place. He's since gone, has he been replaced? Who by? We also know that Cabaye was signing for us up until the point that Houllier left, and that he had a list of players he wanted to bring in.

What we have now under McLeish (and this isn't his fault) is an approach to signing new players that best resembles George Osbourne looking at a list of public spending projects, and an insistence that we have to make do with what we have.

There's nothing coming out of the club at the moment which suggests moving forward. Nothing at all. The whole place reeks of stagnation, and that's the most depressing thing.

[SamTheMouse]

Can't agree there, Toronto.

McLeish screams "traditional British manager" - I don't think for a moment he's going to do the same thing as Houllier wanted, they're two totally different managers.

Absolutely. Let's put it this way. Do you think Houllier would have signed Hutton?

[Chris Smith]

We know that Cabeye said we were in for him, that doesn't translate to us having the money to sign him and pay his wages.

[pauliewalnuts]

Come on, Chris.

The player said he was joining us, and it fell through when Houllier went.

Why would we be after him if we couldn't afford him? His wages are probably less than we pay to that non-footballer Hutton.

"I had the possibility of going to Aston Villa," Cabaye told The People. "But it depended upon whether Gerard Houllier was going to continue in charge and as he ended up not staying I did not join them."

[BedsVillain]

I was actually looking forward to seeing what GH would have done in the summer market, it was touted on a few occasions that he had a very impressive set of targets lined up. I imagine the back 5 would have been completely rebuilt and plenty of the over-earners would have been shipped out and replaced with more value for money players.
Yohan Cabeye, who has hit the ground running at the barcodes said he was set to sign for us before GH's departure and I imagine the £10m and £60k p/w wages spent on the Zog would have got us two players.

The most gauling thing though, for me, is the fact that we not only had to pay off GH and Gary Mac but also waste £2.5m on compensating the blues for AMc, that must be a total of what £6-7m?? I would have prefered moving GH into a DoF role and keeping McCallister in the dugout, we certainly wouldn't be as dire as we are now.

[Greg N'Ash]

Fair enough that you didn't like Houllier, Chris, but you say yourself a third of a season isn't enough to judge a manager. Given that Houllier didn't arrive until a few games in and had to leave very prematurely for health reasons, he didn't have anything like a full season, and certain not the all important summer transfer window.

Just don't think you're being consistent, is all...

Sam, it's not to do with liking him or not. I was supportive during the season and wouldn't have wanted him sacked after finishing mid table. What is bugging me though is the revisionism, there were plenty of games last season every bit as bad as anything we've seen this time and he had better players. That's what happens when a team is in transition, yet people aren't giving AM the same benefit.
 
I am just commenting on what happened, not ifs, buts and maybes. I'll do the same this time, when I feel there is enough evidence.

I'm not sure thats true Chris. There was people who wanted out GH on here in November. As one, like you in the "give him time" camp i was shocked how quickly people turned on him. Frankly  given the time GH got, AM isn't doing too bad

[Chris Smith]

Can't agree there, Toronto.

McLeish screams "traditional British manager" - I don't think for a moment he's going to do the same thing as Houllier wanted, they're two totally different managers.

Absolutely. Let's put it this way. Do you think Houllier would have signed Hutton?

No, it would have been Bruno Cheyrou.

[SamTheMouse]

Sam, it's not to do with liking him or not. I was supportive during the season and wouldn't have wanted him sacked after finishing mid table. What is bugging me though is the revisionism, there were plenty of games last season every bit as bad as anything we've seen this time and he had better players. That's what happens when a team is in transition, yet people aren't giving AM the same benefit.
 
I am just commenting on what happened, not ifs, buts and maybes. I'll do the same this time, when I feel there is enough evidence.
[/quote]

I think one of the problems is, that Houllier made it pretty clear how crap we were, which suggests he wanted to make changes. McLeish seems to give the impression that things aren't that bad, which doesn't tally with the reality and is the reason most fans are crapping big fat bricks about  the future. I also don't like his Steve McLaren style palliness with the players, calling them 'Benty' and stuff, but I guess that's just personal taste.

On Cabaye, the player said he had "deux offres concrètes" from Villa and Newcastle, so I think we'd have landed him.

[JUAN PABLO]

Can't agree there, Toronto.

McLeish screams "traditional British manager" - I don't think for a moment he's going to do the same thing as Houllier wanted, they're two totally different managers.

For a start, Houllier wanted us to keep possession of the ball, whereas McLeish seems allergic to it. I also find it hard to believe he'll have clamped down on the boozing and lazing culture in the way that Houllier wanted to - it's certainly very suspicious that we've had a flow of players telling us how much they hated Houllier, and McLeish is much more like it.

Under Houllier, we actually had recognisable, nameable scouts. Jeff Vetere was putting our European scouting network into place. He's since gone, has he been replaced? Who by? We also know that Cabaye was signing for us up until the point that Houllier left, and that he had a list of players he wanted to bring in.

What we have now under McLeish (and this isn't his fault) is an approach to signing new players that best resembles George Osbourne looking at a list of public spending projects, and an insistence that we have to make do with what we have.

There's nothing coming out of the club at the moment which suggests moving forward. Nothing at all. The whole place reeks of stagnation, and that's the most depressing thing.

Spot on

[taylorsworkrate]

Can't agree there, Toronto.

McLeish screams "traditional British manager" - I don't think for a moment he's going to do the same thing as Houllier wanted, they're two totally different managers.

Absolutely. Let's put it this way. Do you think Houllier would have signed Hutton?

No, it would have been Bruno Cheyrou.

I'd take him over most of our current midfield.

[Chris Smith]

Come on, Chris.

The player said he was joining us, and it fell through when Houllier went.

Why would we be after him if we couldn't afford him? His wages are probably less than we pay to that non-footballer Hutton.

"I had the possibility of going to Aston Villa," Cabaye told The People. "But it depended upon whether Gerard Houllier was going to continue in charge and as he ended up not staying I did not join them."

Come on, Paulie. We know how it works at Villa now, a manager wanting a player is no guarantee he'll get him although perhaps he was going to use the money he got for Gabby.

[Compass]

Compass, it was personalised when you made the inane remark about me not liking football. That wasn't a genuine question, just you trying to get a dig in because you hate people having different opinions.

Why does it bother you so much that I'm sticking to my guns? You aren't going to make me change my mind.

Cos he has turned us into Blues. He has made us small time by not giving it a go against big teams, allows any team to dominate us, seems to be very happy with draws, plays one of the worst football in the league and we even have the same stats as them right now. Nothing has changed from Blues. I can't see any logical reason why any Villa fan would still be willing to give him a chance. I could see the difference in opinions with Houllier, MON etc. But with McLeish? I can't see any valid reason. He has been with us with June so how much more time does he need? Do you really trust him to be the man to keep us up if we're in a relegation battle? Well?

[BedsVillain]

Come on, Chris.

The player said he was joining us, and it fell through when Houllier went.

Why would we be after him if we couldn't afford him? His wages are probably less than we pay to that non-footballer Hutton.

"I had the possibility of going to Aston Villa," Cabaye told The People. "But it depended upon whether Gerard Houllier was going to continue in charge and as he ended up not staying I did not join them."

Come on, Paulie. We know how it works at Villa now, a manager wanting a player is no guarantee he'll get him although perhaps he was going to use the money he got for Gabby.

Or maybe he would have put the £17m AMc had to better use. I didn't think transfer fee's were our issue anyway, it's always stated as the wage bill and GH would have lowered that considerably this summer just by staying on. Dunne would have gone, possibly Collins, Warnock, Ireland, Petrov, Cuellar.
Cabaye cost the same as Hutton and I imagine is on less wages. I'd be confident that GH would have replaced Young & Downing with some cheaper continental talent and Bent would be be in double figures by now.