Guardian apologises to ex-manager

[Legion]

One sentence in defence of MON: it wasn't all bad. His record was decent; I wish it was better. Many of his signings were good; but too many were overpaid donkeys. And his football isn't as Joe Kinnear-ish as sometimes portrayed.

I was fooled. I thought that he was a very good manager. Towards the end it was obvious that he had run out of ideas, and that he was overrated. He was merely a decent manager, good at his thing, and stuck to his ideas. But he had clear limitations, and some of his ideas were very out-dated.

But what really stains his reputation, is his behaviour before, during and after his resignation. Its lack of decency, elegance and grace showed that he after five years at the club still only thought about himself, and never cared for us. For a Villa fan that's hard to take.

An excellent, reasoned summation.

[luke25]

One sentence in defence of MON: it wasn't all bad. His record was decent; I wish it was better. Many of his signings were good; but too many were overpaid donkeys. And his football isn't as Joe Kinnear-ish as sometimes portrayed.

I was fooled. I thought that he was a very good manager. Towards the end it was obvious that he had run out of ideas, and that he was overrated. He was merely a decent manager, good at his thing, and stuck to his ideas. But he had clear limitations, and some of his ideas were very out-dated.

But what really stains his reputation, is his behaviour before, during and after his resignation. Its lack of decency, elegance and grace showed that he after five years at the club still only thought about himself, and never cared for us. For a Villa fan that's hard to take.

An excellent, reasoned summation.

I've tried to put it many ways over the past year or so but can never quite word it correctly, this however has it bang on.

[cheltenhamlion]

Mostly agreed

[Risso]

One sentence in defence of MON: it wasn't all bad. His record was decent; I wish it was better. Many of his signings were good; but too many were overpaid donkeys. And his football isn't as Joe Kinnear-ish as sometimes portrayed.

I was fooled. I thought that he was a very good manager. Towards the end it was obvious that he had run out of ideas, and that he was overrated. He was merely a decent manager, good at his thing, and stuck to his ideas. But he had clear limitations, and some of his ideas were very out-dated.

But what really stains his reputation, is his behaviour before, during and after his resignation. Its lack of decency, elegance and grace showed that he after five years at the club still only thought about himself, and never cared for us. For a Villa fan that's hard to take.

An excellent, reasoned summation.

The trouble is those overpaid donkeys, albeit sanctioned by Lerner, have effectively ruined our chances for the foreseeable future.

[KevinGage]

It's a subject that will remain divisive for many years to come.  Those who still think the sun shines out of Magic Martin's arse aren't going to be swayed at this juncture. Likewise, those who were critical of the bloke. Or outright disliked him.

Eigentor sums up most of my feelings on the subject, but the biggest emotion I still feel about the whole thing is regret.  Regret that he didn't at least stick around for another 12 months (whichever way you want to cut it, the manner of his departure was very unsatisfactory). But mostly regret that the old coot couldn't change.

Make no mistake, to have the success he has had at various levels of the game, he must have something about him.  And based on that success, perhaps that's why he didn't think he needed to change. "I've done it my way so far, screw what anyone else says."  But on the weekend when Siralex hits his 25th anniversary at Old Toilet, there can be no greater illustration in the game that even the very best aren't too big or to successful to adapt.

Fergiescum was the typical meat and potatoes 4-4-2 merchant for many years, jobs for his mates on the coaching staff and all the rest of it. Up to and including his first few trophies with the Red Mancs.

But to his credit (as much as it pains me to say that)  it was never enough for him, just to do things as they had always been done. He took on promising young coach who he wasn't particularly friendly with in McLaren, a guy who despite his (thoroughly deserved) comedy reputation in later years was actually ahead of the game at that stage, utilising prozone and the likes.  After that he took on Queiroz -and exposed his players to a more European approach to training and tactics. As well as tapping into a burgeoning foreign market for young players.

If MON had been just a wee bit receptive to some of that kind of fresh input -allied with his more traditional motivational qualities- we could have been talking about a potentially great Villa manager.

[Sexual Ealing]

It's a subject that will remain divisive for many years to come.  Those who still think the sun shines out of Magic Martin's arse aren't going to be swayed at this juncture. Likewise, those who were critical of the bloke. Or outright disliked him.

Eigentor sums up most of my feelings on the subject, but the biggest emotion I still feel about the whole thing is regret.  Regret that he didn't at least stick around for another 12 months (whichever way you want to cut it, the manner of his departure was very unsatisfactory). But mostly regret that the old coot couldn't change.

Make no mistake, to have the success he has had at various levels of the game, he must have something about him.  And based on that success, perhaps that's why he didn't think he needed to change. "I've done it my way so far, screw what anyone else says."  But on the weekend when Siralex hits his 25th anniversary at Old Toilet, there can be no greater illustration in the game that even the very best aren't too big or to successful to adapt.

Fergiescum was the typical meat and potatoes 4-4-2 merchant for many years, jobs for his mates on the coaching staff and all the rest of it. Up to and including his first few trophies with the Red Mancs.

But to his credit (as much as it pains me to say that)  it was never enough for him, just to do things as they had always been done. He took on promising young coach who he wasn't particularly friendly with in McLaren, a guy who despite his (thoroughly deserved) comedy reputation in later years was actually ahead of the game at that stage, utilising prozone and the likes.  After that he took on Queiroz -and exposed his players to a more European approach to training and tactics. As well as tapping into a burgeoning foreign market for young players.

If MON had been just a wee bit receptive to some of that kind of fresh input -allied with his more traditional motivational qualities- we could have been talking about a potentially great Villa manager.

I agree with that.

As a Monette, the reason I was so happy with him, and so sad that it didn't work out, was that for a club of our current stature, he was about as good as we were going to get.

[Eigentor]

It's a subject that will remain divisive for many years to come.  Those who still think the sun shines out of Magic Martin's arse aren't going to be swayed at this juncture. Likewise, those who were critical of the bloke. Or outright disliked him.

Eigentor sums up most of my feelings on the subject, but the biggest emotion I still feel about the whole thing is regret.  Regret that he didn't at least stick around for another 12 months (whichever way you want to cut it, the manner of his departure was very unsatisfactory). But mostly regret that the old coot couldn't change.

Make no mistake, to have the success he has had at various levels of the game, he must have something about him.  And based on that success, perhaps that's why he didn't think he needed to change. "I've done it my way so far, screw what anyone else says."  But on the weekend when Siralex hits his 25th anniversary at Old Toilet, there can be no greater illustration in the game that even the very best aren't too big or to successful to adapt.

Fergiescum was the typical meat and potatoes 4-4-2 merchant for many years, jobs for his mates on the coaching staff and all the rest of it. Up to and including his first few trophies with the Red Mancs.

But to his credit (as much as it pains me to say that)  it was never enough for him, just to do things as they had always been done. He took on promising young coach who he wasn't particularly friendly with in McLaren, a guy who despite his (thoroughly deserved) comedy reputation in later years was actually ahead of the game at that stage, utilising prozone and the likes.  After that he took on Queiroz -and exposed his players to a more European approach to training and tactics. As well as tapping into a burgeoning foreign market for young players.

If MON had been just a wee bit receptive to some of that kind of fresh input -allied with his more traditional motivational qualities- we could have been talking about a potentially great Villa manager.

I agree with most of this. As I argued, MON had clear limitations, but that didn't need to be a problem if he had surrounded himself with people who complemented him: a more progressive assistant, perhaps someone like Queiroz; a modern-thinking fitness coach; a proper scouting network.

As much as I dislike the man, there is little doubt that we lost something valuable (his leadership abilities, his charisma) when he left.

[cheltenhamlion]

Another good post Kev.

[olofmilosevic]

I'd like to thank mon for the many wins we got in march every year, the glorious flowing football we played and for the many trophies. Oh and that fantastic night out in moscow

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JUAN PABLO]

I saw MON on the pitch in midweek being interviewd for a Euro game .

I havent seen him for about 15 mths on TV .

I looked at him for 45 seconds while the presenter spoke , not feeling too much inside my body .

Then MON spoke and I just though ' C**t , shut the f**k up '       thats how I felt .....

[Greg N'Ash]

I love his new foray into the rent-a-pundit market with all the other long term unemployables. I think reality is beginning to dawn on him that there's not a queue of big clubs waiting to offer him the job he thinks he deserves under the conditions he wants. Even the likes of blackburn aren't gonna offer him the free reign he had at Villa

[Monty]

MON may have thought that our inevitable downward curve after his departure would have helped his stock rise. In fact, it's done the opposite as everyone knows his role in that downturn is as great, if not greater, than anyone else's.

[brian green]

Kevin and Eigentor make very impressive evaluations of the man and his time with us.   I cannot disagree with any of the substance of the debate.

However, what happened at the end in a very irrational way I took personally.   I have no justification to regard it so, I can only say how I felt.   I had always considered Martin O'Neill to be a gentleman.   The timing, manner of departure and subsequent actions against the club convinced me that the genuine admiration I had had for him was misplaced.   That will always be taste left in my mouth by the O'Neill years.

[Dante Lavelli]

MON may have thought that our inevitable downward curve after his departure would have helped his stock rise. In fact, it's done the opposite as everyone knows his role in that downturn is as great, if not greater, than anyone else's.

I think you are spot on there Monty.  I think his motivation for leaving was not spite, but to protect his image knowing that the money had run dry.  Ironic that if he'd stayed for that season then he would arguably be held in better regard throughout football (despite the best efforts of his lawyer).

[john2710]

In fairness to MON, although he is litigious fucker, he has the right to defend himself against false statements in the press.  However, his actions against us after he walked out leaves a very sour taste, even if 'by law' he has been successful in his claim, it doesn't make it right. Perverts who get a kicking in prison sue the prison service for injuries sustained and win, but it doesn't make it morally right.

Nothing is allowed to put a stain on the MON brand (myth).  I backed MON in almost all the things he did, Moscow included, because I thought his intentions were to achieve the best for the club. Reality is that he was only ever here out of self interest and was quick to drop us in the shit when he was questioned.  Fact is he was limited and high maintenance. Good man management will only go so far.

His record at Villa is not a patch on Saunders, Taylor, Atkinson or Little.

He will also never manage a club the size of Aston Villa again.