Who Should be Aston Villa Manager ? Now with new, revised poll

[Greg N'Ash]

Alex Ferguson had made Aberdeen one of the best teams in Europe.

I don't disagree Dave, but could that be done today when money has just gone mental, and smaller teams could hold their own and even overachieve. You'd be hard pressed to do that now. I'm not dismissing what Ferguson did up there, but it was a different era.

too right, he won the UEFA cupwc when it was actually full of very very good teams

[Toronto Villa]

they build their reputations at small clubs looking to survive, they make a success of it and join clubs like us. We don't skip that part and give them the job before they've done anything. Or we didn't/

 What had Graham Taylor done at the top level when we came calling for him?

Got Watford (WATFORD) to 2nd in the league and to an FA Cup final.

what had he won at the top level? Yes, those achievements and his promotions are very impressive, and I'm not trying to downplay something like that, but his accomplishents weren't the only reason he got the job with us. He was seen as a very astute young manager in the game just waiting for a bigger opportunity that we provided.

You've changed 'done' for 'won'.

Changing the proposition of an argument means that a new argument is needed because the proposer has accepted defeat in respect of the original proposition.

All the birds fancy me.

I think you are confusing yourself by using long words out of context. If you go back to greg's original point, it consisted of wanting someone who had won things. Had you followed that part of the discussion you would understand more fully why I chose to use the word won as opposed to done.

[Stu]

Alex Ferguson had made Aberdeen one of the best teams in Europe.

I don't disagree Dave, but could that be done today when money has just gone mental, and smaller teams could hold their own and even overachieve. You'd be hard pressed to do that now. I'm not dismissing what Ferguson did up there, but it was a different era.

too right, he won the UEFA cupwc when it was actually full of very very good teams

I clocked that edit

I thought you may have been going a bit overboard.

[TheSandman]

Alex Ferguson had made Aberdeen one of the best teams in Europe.

I don't disagree Dave, but could that be done today when money has just gone mental, and smaller teams could hold their own and even overachieve. You'd be hard pressed to do that now. I'm not dismissing what Ferguson did up there, but it was a different era.

Even then I don't think Aberdeen had the resources to rival Bayern Munich and Real Madrid who they beat under Ferguson. Hell they didn't have the resources to rival Rangers and Celtic.

[Greg N'Ash]

Alex Ferguson had made Aberdeen one of the best teams in Europe.

I don't disagree Dave, but could that be done today when money has just gone mental, and smaller teams could hold their own and even overachieve. You'd be hard pressed to do that now. I'm not dismissing what Ferguson did up there, but it was a different era.

Even then I don't think Aberdeen had the resources to rival Bayern Munich and Real Madrid who they beat under Ferguson. Hell they didn't have the resources to rival Rangers and Celtic.

yep. about the size of a coventry city if that.

[Greg N'Ash]

Alex Ferguson had made Aberdeen one of the best teams in Europe.

I don't disagree Dave, but could that be done today when money has just gone mental, and smaller teams could hold their own and even overachieve. You'd be hard pressed to do that now. I'm not dismissing what Ferguson did up there, but it was a different era.

too right, he won the UEFA cupwc when it was actually full of very very good teams

I clocked that edit

I thought you may have been going a bit overboard.

what edit? *cough*

[Sexual Ealing]

they build their reputations at small clubs looking to survive, they make a success of it and join clubs like us. We don't skip that part and give them the job before they've done anything. Or we didn't/

 What had Graham Taylor done at the top level when we came calling for him?

Got Watford (WATFORD) to 2nd in the league and to an FA Cup final.

what had he won at the top level? Yes, those achievements and his promotions are very impressive, and I'm not trying to downplay something like that, but his accomplishents weren't the only reason he got the job with us. He was seen as a very astute young manager in the game just waiting for a bigger opportunity that we provided.

You've changed 'done' for 'won'.

Changing the proposition of an argument means that a new argument is needed because the proposer has accepted defeat in respect of the original proposition.

All the birds fancy me.

I think you are confusing yourself by using long words out of context. If you go back to greg's original point, it consisted of wanting someone who had won things. Had you followed that part of the discussion you would understand more fully why I chose to use the word won as opposed to done.

I think you're confusing yourself by not being able to distinguish between two separate words, with differing meanings, that you have used in the same context withing the las twenty minutes.

[dave.woodhall]

Sir Graham had a record of success with two clubs - Lincoln and Watford. What he did at Watford was amazing; from the fourth division to runner-up in the league and he was willing to take a step back to go two forward. Ferguson took a club who were no bigger than fourth or fifth in Scotland and had them competing against the best in Europe. Brian had done well from the Conference to the Premier League. All of these had 'earned the right' (a horrible phrase) to try themselves at the next level. Martinez, as yet, hasn't.   

[murfee]

they build their reputations at small clubs looking to survive, they make a success of it and join clubs like us. We don't skip that part and give them the job before they've done anything. Or we didn't/

 What had Graham Taylor done at the top level when we came calling for him?

Got Watford (WATFORD) to 2nd in the league and to an FA Cup final.

what had he won at the top level? Yes, those achievements and his promotions are very impressive, and I'm not trying to downplay something like that, but his accomplishents weren't the only reason he got the job with us. He was seen as a very astute young manager in the game just waiting for a bigger opportunity that we provided.

You've changed 'done' for 'won'.

Changing the proposition of an argument means that a new argument is needed because the proposer has accepted defeat in respect of the original proposition.

All the birds fancy me.

I think you are confusing yourself by using long words out of context. If you go back to greg's original point, it consisted of wanting someone who had won things. Had you followed that part of the discussion you would understand more fully why I chose to use the word won as opposed to done.

i think you are missing the point Toronto........all the birds fancy him

[Sexual Ealing]

they build their reputations at small clubs looking to survive, they make a success of it and join clubs like us. We don't skip that part and give them the job before they've done anything. Or we didn't/

 What had Graham Taylor done at the top level when we came calling for him?

Got Watford (WATFORD) to 2nd in the league and to an FA Cup final.

what had he won at the top level? Yes, those achievements and his promotions are very impressive, and I'm not trying to downplay something like that, but his accomplishents weren't the only reason he got the job with us. He was seen as a very astute young manager in the game just waiting for a bigger opportunity that we provided.

You've changed 'done' for 'won'.

Changing the proposition of an argument means that a new argument is needed because the proposer has accepted defeat in respect of the original proposition.

All the birds fancy me.

I think you are confusing yourself by using long words out of context. If you go back to greg's original point, it consisted of wanting someone who had won things. Had you followed that part of the discussion you would understand more fully why I chose to use the word won as opposed to done.

i think you are missing the point Toronto........all the birds fancy him

That's right. And I mean it - it isn't a joke. I mean it.

[Toronto Villa]

Sir Graham had a record of success with two clubs - Lincoln and Watford. What he did at Watford was amazing; from the fourth division to runner-up in the league and he was willing to take a step back to go two forward. Ferguson took a club who were no bigger than fourth or fifth in Scotland and had them competing against the best in Europe. Brian had done well from the Conference to the Premier League. All of these had 'earned the right' (a horrible phrase) to try themselves at the next level. Martinez, as yet, hasn't.   

that's my point though Dave. None of those managers you mentioned had won trophies at the top level, but all of them deserved their chance. Going back to the very beginning of all of this and the General's comments, my point is that a manager doesn't have to won trophies at the top level to be given a chance of managing at the top level. This isn't about Martinez specifically, but the board, from what I can tell are trying to find a manager that combines a number of attributes along with their track record. Obviously if they've had success or won trophies along the way that's a huge plus, but like a Moyes, who they seem to have had as their number one, he's got the potential to win things while being a good ambassador for the club.

For the record, I've never come out in support of Martinez, just that I understand where the club might have been going in wanting to talk to him or someone of that mould.

[eamonn]

All the birds fancy me.

I thought you were a bird.

[godzvilla]

Some Press reporting that heavy betting yesterday , mostly emanating from N.Yorkshire , reduced the odds on Simon Grayson becoming the new Villa Manager from 50-1 to 5-2 .
Grayson replacing McAllister ....again ?!
I was  thinking this week how suprising  it wasGrayson,s name has,nt been mentioned before now , another is Claudio Ranieri .
..............Godzvilla!

[Dave P]

I'm sure I'm going to be very much in a minority but I wouldn't mind Grayson.  It was bacially his building blocks that got Blackpool going in the right direction and he managed to get Leeds promoted after a sucession of managers failed.  Our very own GMac included.

Christ, has it come to this though ?

[Neil Hawkes]

"As if one Manager sends a bigger ambition signal than another..."

of course they do. If you choose a manager who's won things, has experience at the highest level and is well respected then it obviously does show more ambition than Joe Bloggs who's managed a few years in the championship. Sorry but thats how it is in football as in most things and if the General doesn't realise that, he's wildly out of his depth.

You're talking shite old chap and you know it!